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Welcome to Testing, Testing 1, 2, 3, a
podcast brought to you by TestGenius.

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Welcome back to Testing, Testing 1, 2, 3.

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My name is Jenny.

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I'm one of your hosts today,
and with me is Mike Callen.

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Mike is the president of
TestGenius and our co-host.

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Mike, you wanna say hi?

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Hello, everyone.

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And with us is Ian Bellais.

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Ian is the executive vice president
of strategy, man, that is a mouthful-

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Yeah … from Verified First.

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Yeah.

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Ian, welcome.

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We're sure glad you joined us today.

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No, thank you very much.

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I appreciate it.

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Yeah.

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Title like that, I hope you
get paid by the letter, buddy.

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I tried to make my title longer.

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They won't let me yet.

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But, you know, I'm gonna
give it another shot.

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C-

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business cards aren't big enough.

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It's great to have you here, Ian.

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Yeah.

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I- Ian, why don't you tell us a little
bit about who you are and Verified First?

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So, as has already been
stated, I'm the executive VP

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of strategy at Verified First.

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Um, uh, I've been with Verified First,
in November it'll be 10 years actually.

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Wow.

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And, uh, I really started with Verified
First developing their partner channel

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program, and since then I've gone on
to lead marketing and sales as well.

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Uh, but now I'm really focused
on strategy, around partnerships,

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and new vendors and products.

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So you know, I still get involved
with specific partners, like Biddle.

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We think you guys are great, and
we're excited to work with you.

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So and then Verified First is a
background screening company that,

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you know, does background screening,
verifications, drug screening, I-9.

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We're about to launch a WOTC solution.

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So really anything that has to do-

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What's that?

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WOTC?

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Yeah.

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That's federal and state
credits for employment.

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So basically, companies get federal
and state credits for all sorts of

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different reasons when they hire.

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So we're launching a solution
that helps them manage that and

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gain as many credits as they can.

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Interesting.

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But it's really anything to
do with recruitment, kind of

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right before onboarding space
that we get involved with.

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Okay.

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So how did you get connected with
background screening and Verified First?

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H- what's the story there?

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Well, it wasn't on purpose.

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Uh, I really have a technology
background, and, um, I've known the

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owner of Verified First for a while
now, probably since- Gosh, I think

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since 2008, I think I've known Devin.

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And he just asked me one day if I'd be
interested in working for his background

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screening company and in Boise, Idaho.

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Um, I was in the Phoenix, Arizona
area at the time, and I don't know,

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I'd never thought about it, uh,
about doing something like that.

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He convinced me to go to
Boise and take a look.

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One, I fell in love with the
city, and I kind of fell in love

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with their software solution.

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Mm. And just saw a lot of possibilities
there, so I decided to go ahead and

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do it and- Long story short, moved
to Boise and been here ever since.

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That's awesome.

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And that's been 10 years?

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Sometimes a- Yeah … a great
plan is no plan at all, right?

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Yeah.

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Well, you know, sometimes the best
things ha- come out of nowhere.

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You never know.

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Absolutely.

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You started to mention about recruitment.

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Where is the background
checking's place in recruitment?

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Well, it depends on what you're doing, and
it depends on which solution you're using.

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Um, you know, we have a, a ID
verification solution that could

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come earlier than the background- Mm

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screen.

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For the most part, background screens take
place after the offer letter goes out.

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Okay.

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That's the safest time to do that,
and w- we can get in for, like,

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all sorts of reasons for that.

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But basically, you wanna get through
most of the recruitment process

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before you do a background screen.

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Okay.

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So and then you mentioned ID verification.

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Why don't you touch on that for a minute?

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Talk about what that is.

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Well, um, ID verification is becoming
actually more and more critical.

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L- a lot because- Mm … of
what's happening out in the

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market with AI, for example.

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But it's become more critical
that you verify who the

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person is that you're hiring.

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And it did

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Like, you wanna make sure Ian is Ian.

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And this is especially critical in
a lot of spaces that we're involved

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with, like for example, transportation.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, it's really important to know
that the driver, for example, that

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you're hiring is actually that
person, and that's their license.

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So ID verification's
becoming a critical part.

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It's something you wanna do really
right before the background screen.

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So with a lot of our customers now, we
will do the ID verification sort of as

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an entryway into the background screen.

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And if Ian is who Ian says he is,
then we'll move forward, and we'll

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background screen that person.

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It's a way of ensuring you're not
wasting money on screening somebody

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that's given you a false ID-

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Mm-hmm

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or false identification.

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Why do that?

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Right.

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If they're not who they say they are, then
you know that you shouldn't move forward.

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L- last time I got a job was 1994.

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Yeah.

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And, uh, I remember when you
got hired, you had to come in

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with your Social Security card.

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Right.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I know you have I-9s
now and these forms.

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So do you guys actually automate
that process so that HR doesn't

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need to get those copies any longer,
and then you archive them for them?

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Or how does that work?

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Oh, yeah, we've come
a long way since then.

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I still have my … By the way, I
still have my Social Security card

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from back in, I don't know when
I got it, back in the '70s- Yeah

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or whenever that happened.

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I was 13 when I got mine.

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Yeah.

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I haven't had to show that thing
in decades, but, uh, 'cause you

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don't really need to anymore.

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We have solutions now that can trace the
Social Security number and i- identify

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the person based on the Social Security
number, and show that it's actually

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that person's Social Security number.

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That's great.

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Presenting the card really
isn't the thing now.

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It's really going to the database
and making sure, like, my Social

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Security number is the one I gave you.

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Got it.

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So everything's done with technology
these days rather than, uh, on paper.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, sure.

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So what does a good background
screen actually include?

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So it's gonna depend on a lot of things.

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I mean, we do… Just to give you, just
so you know what you're asking here,

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um, Verified First has hundreds and
hundreds of different screens and tests.

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It, it's a really long list.

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There, there's no way I could
go through all of them in one

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setting with you guys today.

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But in general, you know, we provide
criminal history, sex offender, social

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security traces, employment verifications,
education verifications, federal screens,

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drug screens, international screens.

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And the best one to choose is
really gonna be based on the role-

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Mm

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… 
that you're hiring for.

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So, you know, just to keep it simple
I guess, like, uh, someone you're

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hiring at Domino's, let's say,
to deliver pizzas, you know, the,

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it's not gonna be as stringent.

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That's not to say it's not a good
background screen, but in those cases

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you're probably gonna do a criminal
history, sex offender, social security

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trace, and then a, a, a county search.

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Those are the four basic ones
that you always wanna do.

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But if you're hiring, like, an executive
or someone involved in security,

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you're gonna wanna go deeper than that.

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You wanna go to the federal level.

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You might wanna do credit checks.

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You might wanna do ongoing criminal
monitoring for those kinds of folks-

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Mm-hmm … in those kinds of roles.

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Mm-hmm.

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Things like that.

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So it's typically for more critical
roles you're gonna add different

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kinds of searches that really dive
deeper into that person's background.

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You know, including things like education
and, and employment history becomes very

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important with those kinds of roles.

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So y- you kind of answered, you're
such a good guest, you kind of answered

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my next question, which really had
to do with different sort of tiers.

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Obviously there's different tiers
of service that you'd be offering-

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Uh-huh

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depending on, like you said,
the types of positions.

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But tell us a little bit about who, what
kinds of employers should con- consider

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implementing background checks and why?

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Really every employer should do it.

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I think when most people think about
background screens, they're kind of

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thinking, "Well, I wanna see if this
person has a criminal history, and if

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they do, maybe I don't wanna hire them."

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But it's really more than that.

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I mean, you're protecting the company,
you're protecting your investors, you're

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protecting your employees, and because
you wanna make sure that the people

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that you hire are who they say they are.

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Mm.

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You know?

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And-

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Yeah

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… 
when organizations make hiring
mistakes, the impact on that is

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way beyond just the company itself.

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It could hurt culture.

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It, it could create a lack of
trust within the organization.

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Right.

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It can do all sorts of things that
really employers don't wanna happen.

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So I think it's way more critical
than people really think about.

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I don't look at it from a point of
view of saying, "Well, if I'm just

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hiring someone for this frontline job,
I shouldn't background screen them.

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It's not a big deal."
It, it is a big deal.

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You know, the people that work with
that person wanna know that you've hired

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people that are safe and good people.

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L- let's say you hired somebody
four years ago, and now you're gonna

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promote them into a different position.

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Yeah.

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Do you recommend running a background
screening on that person, or screening

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them for some things, or, you know,
are you conc- people, should they be

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concerned with what happened since, in
the four years that they were employed

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Oh,

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yeah.

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You know, do you have to be con-

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Yeah, for sure.

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I have to do a background screen
every year on my work anniversary

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Oh

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So, you know-

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Just, and just as a matter of procedure?

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Yeah, as a matter of procedure.

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It's just a thing that we do.

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It's not a big deal.

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I mean, I'm not going out breaking any
laws or robbing any banks or anything.

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Right.

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Not getting

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caught.

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But, you know, and it's not
because of my role either.

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Actually, we do this for all
employees at Verified First.

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I mean, we are a company that deals with
protected data and compliance, but there's

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definitely types of roles, I think,
within an organization that you ought

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to do ongoing background screens for.

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Interesting.

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Uh, or again, depending on the
role, ongoing drug screens.

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Again, going back to transportation,
it is common for drivers to have random

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drug screens all the time, to protect,
really to protect them, the equipment,

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the company, the people on the road
that they're driving with, you know?

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So there's a lot of good reasons
to do it, and you should do it.

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That's great.

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So you mentioned you have, you know,
maybe 100 different kinds of screens.

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Uh, do you have, like, account managers,
or does your software help sort of

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walk people through a process that
gives them an idea which things they

243
00:12:14,098 --> 00:12:17,117
should use for a particular position?

244
00:12:17,117 --> 00:12:20,320
Or how does one sort of navigate
their way through that part?

245
00:12:21,159 --> 00:12:24,740
So it- it's actually
several hundreds of screens.

246
00:12:24,846 --> 00:12:25,151
It's-

247
00:12:25,151 --> 00:12:25,651
Oh, okay

248
00:12:26,528 --> 00:12:30,680
… 
yeah, so our, first of all, from the
very beginning, just from, uh, with our

249
00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:36,435
sales team, they all are, are really
good at evaluating the prospect and the

250
00:12:36,438 --> 00:12:42,717
customer So they're not just signing up,
signing them up to do business with us.

251
00:12:42,734 --> 00:12:47,103
Th- they are looking at what roles
do you hire for, what states are you

252
00:12:47,104 --> 00:12:54,190
hiring in, um, sometimes what counties
are you hiring in, and what's really

253
00:12:54,191 --> 00:12:57,589
required for those types of roles.

254
00:12:57,589 --> 00:13:02,409
We actually have a person that comes
in during the sale and sometimes right

255
00:13:02,409 --> 00:13:04,791
after the sale to look for the gaps.

256
00:13:05,429 --> 00:13:05,840
Ooh,

257
00:13:05,944 --> 00:13:06,202
good.

258
00:13:06,217 --> 00:13:11,580
Because, y- y- you know, nobody's perfect,
and information sometimes gets lost in

259
00:13:11,581 --> 00:13:16,313
translation, and, and we wanna make sure,
um, that we're catching everything that

260
00:13:16,313 --> 00:13:19,719
we need to catch, and we're protecting
our customers as much as we can.

261
00:13:19,724 --> 00:13:19,748
That's good.

262
00:13:20,495 --> 00:13:23,479
And then even during the onboarding
process, we'll go through the same

263
00:13:23,487 --> 00:13:27,661
process with them and just make sure that
they've got everything that they need.

264
00:13:28,396 --> 00:13:31,343
So, and then, yeah, we
do have account managers.

265
00:13:31,343 --> 00:13:36,708
We have a large account management team,
and their job really is to make sure that

266
00:13:37,366 --> 00:13:42,037
the customer's aware of updates, changes
in the law, uh, especially within the

267
00:13:42,038 --> 00:13:46,139
states that they're doing business, what
they should be doing now that they weren't

268
00:13:46,143 --> 00:13:52,871
doing, like, last year, and continuing to
make sure that the customer is protected.

269
00:13:53,603 --> 00:13:58,560
A- as a former knucklehead, I, I of-
often think about, you know, what role

270
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:02,210
in this process should elapsed time play?

271
00:14:02,386 --> 00:14:07,454
You know, if people have done something
15 or 20 years ago, obviously it's

272
00:14:07,457 --> 00:14:12,471
dependent upon what it is, but,
uh, how do you advise people to

273
00:14:12,471 --> 00:14:14,682
navigate that particular aspect?

274
00:14:14,714 --> 00:14:16,761
I haven't done anything stupid- Yeah

275
00:14:16,801 --> 00:14:21,092
for 20 years, but maybe 20 years
ago I made a mistake or whatever.

276
00:14:21,279 --> 00:14:23,268
Do, do you give people
advice in that regard?

277
00:14:23,288 --> 00:14:26,607
Well, I hope so, 'cause I was
an, I was a knucklehead myself.

278
00:14:26,942 --> 00:14:27,255
Um-

279
00:14:27,255 --> 00:14:27,529
Right.

280
00:14:28,045 --> 00:14:29,289
I thought I recognized you.

281
00:14:31,159 --> 00:14:34,983
It's funny, I just had a college reunion
this weekend, and we, of course, we were

282
00:14:34,983 --> 00:14:38,661
all sitting around talking about, like,
what knuckleheads we were in college.

283
00:14:38,661 --> 00:14:38,907
Yes.

284
00:14:39,311 --> 00:14:43,179
But I'm really thankful that no
one pays attention to that now.

285
00:14:44,197 --> 00:14:47,858
You know, the, it, a lot of it
is really depending on the law.

286
00:14:48,020 --> 00:14:52,075
So- Mm … different states have
different requirements, so, but

287
00:14:52,075 --> 00:14:54,520
the standard is 7 to 10 years.

288
00:14:55,194 --> 00:14:56,671
A 7 to 10-year look-back.

289
00:14:57,399 --> 00:14:57,573
Mm.

290
00:14:57,753 --> 00:14:59,362
A- again, depending on the state.

291
00:15:00,138 --> 00:15:04,144
The customer can also make that
decision from 7 to 10 years.

292
00:15:04,733 --> 00:15:08,091
That's typically the standard when
you're thinking about elapsed time.

293
00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:12,747
Now, going forward, though, uh,
although lately it seems like a

294
00:15:12,748 --> 00:15:14,933
year goes b- by like that for me.

295
00:15:15,598 --> 00:15:15,804
Yeah,

296
00:15:15,819 --> 00:15:15,907
true.

297
00:15:15,977 --> 00:15:17,389
A, a lot can happen in a year.

298
00:15:18,431 --> 00:15:20,782
And, you know, companies
should remember that.

299
00:15:20,930 --> 00:15:25,168
You know, the person- Right … that
you hired 12 months ago may not- Be

300
00:15:25,169 --> 00:15:27,456
the same person that they are today

301
00:15:28,226 --> 00:15:28,564
Yeah.

302
00:15:28,564 --> 00:15:28,574
Yeah

303
00:15:28,595 --> 00:15:32,953
So, and I hate to say it that way,
but it's just sort of reality.

304
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:33,829
Sure.

305
00:15:33,829 --> 00:15:35,725
For most of us it's not a problem, right?

306
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:36,401
You know?

307
00:15:36,665 --> 00:15:39,919
Where e- most people are, do what they're
supposed to do and how they're supposed

308
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:41,466
to do it, but you just never know

309
00:15:42,216 --> 00:15:42,512
Right

310
00:15:43,463 --> 00:15:47,600
Le- let's talk about compliance,
legal compliance for a second.

311
00:15:47,685 --> 00:15:52,702
Especially for those HR folks who
are listening who maybe aren't

312
00:15:52,836 --> 00:15:54,870
familiar with what the law is.

313
00:15:55,001 --> 00:15:55,353
Mm-hmm.

314
00:15:55,566 --> 00:16:00,486
What are the basic legal rules
an employer needs to know about

315
00:16:00,488 --> 00:16:05,164
when running a background screen
or even an ID verification?

316
00:16:05,529 --> 00:16:14,104
Um, wow, that's, there's a lot there, um,
from a legal perspective Every background

317
00:16:14,106 --> 00:16:19,766
screening company, technically it's, we're
CRAs, we're consumer reporting agencies.

318
00:16:20,858 --> 00:16:21,294
Mm-hmm.

319
00:16:21,327 --> 00:16:26,140
And we have to follow the
regulations set by the FCRA.

320
00:16:27,121 --> 00:16:33,149
So there's a lot of laws around, there,
there's, there's federal laws and

321
00:16:33,149 --> 00:16:38,997
state laws that you need to be aware of
when you're doing background screens.

322
00:16:39,863 --> 00:16:42,579
And we might get into some of
this in more detail down the

323
00:16:42,579 --> 00:16:44,430
road here, I think maybe later.

324
00:16:44,430 --> 00:16:49,184
But, you know, there's ban the
box rules, there's, um, E- E-

325
00:16:49,185 --> 00:16:50,542
OC- I'm gonna get it wrong.

326
00:16:50,608 --> 00:16:53,135
EOCC regulations and federal-

327
00:16:53,137 --> 00:16:53,892
EEOC.

328
00:16:54,351 --> 00:16:56,092
Yeah, EEOC, there you go.

329
00:16:56,248 --> 00:17:01,397
So there's different things you need to be
aware of as an employer, but in general,

330
00:17:02,409 --> 00:17:10,496
in general, you wanna make sure that, uh,
you're screening the same role, everyone

331
00:17:10,496 --> 00:17:14,117
who applies for a role, that you're
screening them in the exact same way.

332
00:17:14,572 --> 00:17:14,931
Hmm.

333
00:17:14,964 --> 00:17:15,300
Right.

334
00:17:15,529 --> 00:17:15,911
Yeah.

335
00:17:16,130 --> 00:17:16,502
Right?

336
00:17:16,536 --> 00:17:18,203
Same thing with testing on our side.

337
00:17:18,333 --> 00:17:18,733
Right.

338
00:17:18,825 --> 00:17:19,442
Exactly.

339
00:17:19,442 --> 00:17:22,428
You don't wanna show any
bias or waiver from that.

340
00:17:22,451 --> 00:17:28,919
Like, if I apply for role X, and Jenny,
you apply for role X, the same exact

341
00:17:28,926 --> 00:17:33,717
background screen should take place,
whatever that company's deciding to do.

342
00:17:34,774 --> 00:17:38,816
So we do things to protect companies
from making these kinds of changes

343
00:17:39,286 --> 00:17:43,896
by packaging up a list of different
types of screens into one package

344
00:17:44,219 --> 00:17:48,715
for a specific role to make sure that
the deviation doesn't take place.

345
00:17:49,076 --> 00:17:49,426
Hmm.

346
00:17:49,793 --> 00:17:54,734
And the risk gets larger as companies
are bigger because, whereas in a

347
00:17:54,734 --> 00:17:59,134
small company you might have one
recruiter, for example, and they know

348
00:17:59,145 --> 00:18:00,928
what they're doing with each role.

349
00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:01,201
Yeah.

350
00:18:01,566 --> 00:18:06,408
In larger companies, when you have
20 recruiters, 30 recruiters, 100

351
00:18:06,408 --> 00:18:09,647
recruiters, that it gets more complicated.

352
00:18:10,228 --> 00:18:14,312
So, so you really wanna provide a
framework for them that ensures that

353
00:18:14,851 --> 00:18:18,514
they're not showing any bias or making
any changes from role to role when

354
00:18:18,514 --> 00:18:20,044
they're doing the background screens.

355
00:18:20,918 --> 00:18:21,349
Um-

356
00:18:21,349 --> 00:18:23,030
S- Does your… Oh, sorry, go ahead.

357
00:18:23,030 --> 00:18:23,288
No, go ahead.

358
00:18:23,310 --> 00:18:25,165
I was just gonna ask you
a follow-up question.

359
00:18:25,595 --> 00:18:28,545
So you had mentioned obviously
federal and then there's state.

360
00:18:28,940 --> 00:18:34,755
Does your software need to know,
for instance, what state a person

361
00:18:34,757 --> 00:18:38,627
is in and then give them different
notices and notifications?

362
00:18:38,628 --> 00:18:38,638
Mm-hmm.

363
00:18:38,638 --> 00:18:40,926
Or maybe even administer
things differently?

364
00:18:41,205 --> 00:18:44,679
So it needs to really be intelligent
and be aware of who they are, right?

365
00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:45,697
Yeah.

366
00:18:45,717 --> 00:18:49,083
One of the requirements is
a minimum getting the home

367
00:18:49,083 --> 00:18:51,214
address of the, the candidate.

368
00:18:52,313 --> 00:18:55,083
And then knowing where
they're gonna be working.

369
00:18:55,934 --> 00:18:55,965
Mm-hmm.

370
00:18:55,965 --> 00:18:58,038
'Cause sometimes it's two
different things, you know?

371
00:18:58,081 --> 00:18:58,532
Right, right.

372
00:18:58,538 --> 00:18:59,637
It could be two different states, right?

373
00:19:00,219 --> 00:19:02,683
Do you have to bend to both states then?

374
00:19:02,704 --> 00:19:07,719
Let's say they're living in Utah
and working in Idaho, do you have to

375
00:19:07,903 --> 00:19:10,891
take both of those into account when
you're giving them a background check?

376
00:19:11,006 --> 00:19:11,331
No.

377
00:19:11,336 --> 00:19:16,606
What you, you lean towards the state
in which the job is taking place.

378
00:19:16,651 --> 00:19:16,771
Okay.

379
00:19:16,803 --> 00:19:18,781
Now, that's not the
headquarters of the company.

380
00:19:18,783 --> 00:19:21,436
That is- Right … where
is this person working?

381
00:19:21,771 --> 00:19:27,810
So if I'm a, you know, I live in Indiana,
but I'm commuting to Chicago, the

382
00:19:27,817 --> 00:19:30,452
background screen's gonna be in Chicago.

383
00:19:31,324 --> 00:19:31,620
Hmm.

384
00:19:31,628 --> 00:19:31,638
Okay.

385
00:19:31,751 --> 00:19:34,281
They're gonna follow the laws of Illinois.

386
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:40,102
We maintain a library of different
forms and requirements that need to take

387
00:19:40,107 --> 00:19:44,819
place from state to state, and based
on the data that we get, we provide

388
00:19:44,830 --> 00:19:50,358
the right forms and information to the
candidate to ensure that- That's good

389
00:19:50,358 --> 00:19:51,754
everything's being done correctly.

390
00:19:52,675 --> 00:19:53,004
Okay.

391
00:19:53,004 --> 00:19:59,763
So it sounds like your application
helps employers follow the law for…

392
00:20:00,529 --> 00:20:00,802
Mm-hmm.

393
00:20:00,858 --> 00:20:01,132
Okay.

394
00:20:01,135 --> 00:20:03,236
It helps- Try to make it as
easy for them as possible.

395
00:20:03,562 --> 00:20:03,986
Mm-hmm.

396
00:20:04,032 --> 00:20:06,385
Where w- we don't really ask
them to remember all this stuff

397
00:20:06,386 --> 00:20:07,994
necessarily, but we need to know it.

398
00:20:07,994 --> 00:20:08,004
Yeah.

399
00:20:08,226 --> 00:20:08,735
For sure.

400
00:20:08,808 --> 00:20:09,209
Yeah.

401
00:20:09,492 --> 00:20:15,076
So it helps the employer keep up with
the different laws that the county or

402
00:20:15,077 --> 00:20:17,077
the states and the cities have, right?

403
00:20:17,332 --> 00:20:18,129
Yeah, that's right.

404
00:20:18,849 --> 00:20:19,159
Yeah.

405
00:20:19,698 --> 00:20:20,196
That's great.

406
00:20:20,207 --> 00:20:23,208
So you had mentioned Ban the Box.

407
00:20:24,067 --> 00:20:27,593
Would you go into that a little
bit, describe what that is?

408
00:20:29,063 --> 00:20:34,649
Yeah, so Ban the Box is really about bias.

409
00:20:35,222 --> 00:20:38,730
It refers to a checkbox that
used to be on applications.

410
00:20:38,744 --> 00:20:40,401
I remember this when I was a kid.

411
00:20:40,534 --> 00:20:40,747
Uh-huh.

412
00:20:40,747 --> 00:20:44,124
And you'd have to check a box,
and you'd have to say, "Have you

413
00:20:44,132 --> 00:20:46,013
ever been convicted of a crime?

414
00:20:46,449 --> 00:20:51,667
Yes or no?" Um, yeah, and I hated these
applications 'cause my handwriting stinks.

415
00:20:52,536 --> 00:20:55,648
You know, in the old days, you did
everything with a pen or a pencil.

416
00:20:55,658 --> 00:21:01,660
So- Right … but, uh, you know, that,
that's really not a good question

417
00:21:01,660 --> 00:21:08,183
to ask prior to hiring, deciding to
hire the candidate, because they may

418
00:21:08,183 --> 00:21:09,626
have been convicted of something.

419
00:21:10,308 --> 00:21:16,181
It could be I got convicted 'cause
I shoplifted a, like, some gum.

420
00:21:17,282 --> 00:21:17,693
Mm-hmm.

421
00:21:18,117 --> 00:21:18,588
You know?

422
00:21:18,614 --> 00:21:19,530
Something like that.

423
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,138
Or it could be I've been convicted
of murder, who knows, right?

424
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:28,173
It, the question itself doesn't really
tell you anything that you need to know.

425
00:21:28,774 --> 00:21:29,168
Right.

426
00:21:29,392 --> 00:21:36,302
So in some states, there are Ban
the Box laws that prohibit the

427
00:21:36,330 --> 00:21:39,842
employer from asking that question
in the initial application.

428
00:21:40,814 --> 00:21:43,520
So, and it varies a lot, right?

429
00:21:43,538 --> 00:21:49,882
It could be the initial application,
or you can't ask it until after an

430
00:21:49,895 --> 00:21:54,485
interview, or you can't ask it after
a conditional offer of employment,

431
00:21:55,186 --> 00:21:57,037
uh, a- a- that kind of stuff.

432
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:04,061
And the reason is because states
don't want- To create a group of

433
00:22:04,063 --> 00:22:07,638
people that are not employable-

434
00:22:08,653 --> 00:22:09,004
Mm-hmm

435
00:22:09,004 --> 00:22:11,734
you know, based on some
of their background.

436
00:22:11,734 --> 00:22:14,143
Like, like Michael, kind of like
what we were talking about, like

437
00:22:14,144 --> 00:22:15,437
being a knucklehead, you know?

438
00:22:15,437 --> 00:22:19,546
Um- Yeah … we all go through
our knucklehead moments.

439
00:22:20,639 --> 00:22:24,859
That doesn't mean- Yeah … we're
not qualified to do the job.

440
00:22:25,625 --> 00:22:25,919
Right.

441
00:22:26,034 --> 00:22:31,870
So that's why, that, because of those
laws in general, that's why mostly

442
00:22:32,553 --> 00:22:37,318
background screens happen after the
offer, until the offer goes out,

443
00:22:37,875 --> 00:22:40,472
conditional on the background screen.

444
00:22:40,477 --> 00:22:40,489
Right.

445
00:22:40,953 --> 00:22:44,245
So in other words, they've done,
they, they've done the testing

446
00:22:44,245 --> 00:22:46,952
with Biddle, they've asked,
they've done all the interviews.

447
00:22:46,953 --> 00:22:49,643
They feel like, "Okay, this
is a really good fit for us.

448
00:22:49,663 --> 00:22:50,794
This is a good person.

449
00:22:51,339 --> 00:22:52,563
We want to hire them.

450
00:22:52,900 --> 00:22:54,998
Here's the, here's what
we're gonna offer you.

451
00:22:55,038 --> 00:22:56,676
Now you need to do a background screen."

452
00:22:56,802 --> 00:22:57,238
Right.

453
00:22:57,433 --> 00:23:00,379
And it removes the bias from the process.

454
00:23:00,949 --> 00:23:01,284
Mm-hmm.

455
00:23:01,929 --> 00:23:03,299
Yeah, that, yeah, that makes sense.

456
00:23:04,312 --> 00:23:04,703
Does that help?

457
00:23:04,737 --> 00:23:08,614
It, it was in, just in researching
or in prepping for our interview

458
00:23:08,614 --> 00:23:12,026
that I saw that term, and I
thought, "Okay, have to ask that."

459
00:23:12,363 --> 00:23:12,468
So.

460
00:23:12,468 --> 00:23:17,328
Well, it, it's kind of funny, 'cause I
don't really think that checkbox exists

461
00:23:17,329 --> 00:23:19,272
in any application anywhere anymore.

462
00:23:19,384 --> 00:23:22,274
Like I haven't seen it
for years and years.

463
00:23:22,808 --> 00:23:22,837
So-

464
00:23:22,837 --> 00:23:23,389
Must have been

465
00:23:23,393 --> 00:23:23,958
banned.

466
00:23:24,614 --> 00:23:26,087
It must have been banned, yeah.

467
00:23:26,502 --> 00:23:30,318
So the name itself is kind of outdated,
but that's where it comes from.

468
00:23:30,367 --> 00:23:30,677
Yeah.

469
00:23:31,626 --> 00:23:35,491
So what does… Let's talk about
the candidate for a second.

470
00:23:35,504 --> 00:23:41,353
What does a good candidate experience look
like in the background screening process?

471
00:23:42,341 --> 00:23:48,522
Well, from the candidate's point of view,
number one thing is it has to be easy-

472
00:23:49,447 --> 00:23:49,737
Hmm

473
00:23:49,737 --> 00:23:50,847
… 
and understandable.

474
00:23:51,950 --> 00:23:52,455
Mm-hmm.

475
00:23:52,667 --> 00:23:57,338
You don't want a situation where the
candidates are asking a lot of questions.

476
00:23:58,389 --> 00:24:02,534
So it has to be very prescriptive, quick.

477
00:24:03,393 --> 00:24:08,694
You know, you can get through our s- a
candidate can finish their part of it,

478
00:24:08,709 --> 00:24:14,797
which is, what happens is they have to
sign different types of forms, again,

479
00:24:14,798 --> 00:24:21,455
depending on the state, and, uh, our ca-
the candidates that use our solution can

480
00:24:21,455 --> 00:24:23,681
get through that in just a few minutes.

481
00:24:24,331 --> 00:24:24,775
Okay.

482
00:24:25,195 --> 00:24:26,685
It, it's really easy for them.

483
00:24:26,937 --> 00:24:28,680
Everything comes in a package.

484
00:24:29,338 --> 00:24:30,598
The forms are short.

485
00:24:30,862 --> 00:24:33,342
Uh, the, you know, you can
digitally sign everything.

486
00:24:34,265 --> 00:24:35,432
Is it all electronic?

487
00:24:35,452 --> 00:24:37,717
It's all electronic, every bit of it.

488
00:24:38,297 --> 00:24:41,231
E- even when there's
exceptions or additions-

489
00:24:41,818 --> 00:24:42,000
Hmm

490
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,476
… 
based on state laws, it's
still all electronic.

491
00:24:45,310 --> 00:24:48,475
And so you don't want it, you
don't want that to be a blocker

492
00:24:49,617 --> 00:24:51,786
to your ability to make the hire.

493
00:24:51,788 --> 00:24:55,534
We don't want to be the cause
of candidates dropping out

494
00:24:55,551 --> 00:24:58,676
because the background screening
process got too complicated.

495
00:25:00,355 --> 00:25:04,349
So the other part of it though is
you need to support candidates, and

496
00:25:04,349 --> 00:25:08,728
a lot of people don't really realize
this, but I mean, we have support

497
00:25:08,728 --> 00:25:10,378
teams that support candidates.

498
00:25:10,958 --> 00:25:11,293
Hmm.

499
00:25:11,398 --> 00:25:16,747
If they do have questions, they
can call us or chat with us and

500
00:25:16,761 --> 00:25:21,483
ask us those questions to clar-
clarify any concerns that they have.

501
00:25:21,514 --> 00:25:27,722
That's prior to s- to signing the forms,
after signing the forms, while they're

502
00:25:27,722 --> 00:25:33,458
waiting for the background screens to come
back, or even after the report comes back.

503
00:25:34,628 --> 00:25:39,332
They have the ability to engage with us
at any of those moments and make sure

504
00:25:39,332 --> 00:25:41,140
that their questions are being answered.

505
00:25:41,733 --> 00:25:46,251
So that's also another critical part
of it, and making that, again, easy.

506
00:25:46,266 --> 00:25:49,510
Like, we're very, in this
case, when it comes to support,

507
00:25:49,532 --> 00:25:51,019
we're very people-focused.

508
00:25:51,573 --> 00:25:51,619
Mm-hmm.

509
00:25:51,628 --> 00:25:56,590
We don't really want to push people to
places where they have to go searching

510
00:25:56,591 --> 00:25:58,121
for something and they can't find it.

511
00:25:58,618 --> 00:25:59,742
We're available.

512
00:26:00,724 --> 00:26:02,823
You can dial a phone number
and we'll pick it up.

513
00:26:03,955 --> 00:26:04,048
Hmm.

514
00:26:04,068 --> 00:26:06,841
Or you can chat with us and
we'll chat back with you, right?

515
00:26:06,873 --> 00:26:10,870
Like, you're dealing… Most of the time
with us, you're dealing with people.

516
00:26:11,686 --> 00:26:12,050
Mm-hmm.

517
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,069
Outstanding

518
00:26:14,841 --> 00:26:17,924
But I have two questions
about remote workers.

519
00:26:17,950 --> 00:26:20,603
You brought up a scenario
a little bit earlier.

520
00:26:20,604 --> 00:26:27,368
You've got a, you know, Ian lives in
Indiana and is being employed in Chicago.

521
00:26:27,597 --> 00:26:27,960
Mm-hmm.

522
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:34,223
But what if you never go into the
office, or rarely go into the office?

523
00:26:34,669 --> 00:26:36,812
You're gonna work from home, for instance.

524
00:26:37,090 --> 00:26:44,228
Does that affect the venue in
terms of what legal forms or, or-

525
00:26:44,231 --> 00:26:45,906
Sure … that aspect of compliance?

526
00:26:46,298 --> 00:26:47,556
Yeah, it sure does.

527
00:26:47,591 --> 00:26:49,567
Like, you know, think about it.

528
00:26:49,651 --> 00:26:54,550
Um, let's go back to you and your Social
Security card, having to show that, right?

529
00:26:54,610 --> 00:26:58,760
And back in the days when everything
was paper, could you imagine what that

530
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:05,219
would look like if you had 100% remote
workforce working all over the country?

531
00:27:05,234 --> 00:27:05,678
I know.

532
00:27:06,336 --> 00:27:07,740
You know, it would be impossible-

533
00:27:08,276 --> 00:27:08,657
Right

534
00:27:08,861 --> 00:27:09,654
… 
to manage.

535
00:27:09,942 --> 00:27:10,360
Yeah.

536
00:27:10,484 --> 00:27:14,817
And to, you know, with us, because
everything is digital, and the

537
00:27:14,817 --> 00:27:21,490
technology's there to support it…
Like for example, at First, we are 100%

538
00:27:21,497 --> 00:27:24,685
remote, and we have been since COVID.

539
00:27:25,369 --> 00:27:28,439
And we have- Right … we now have
employees all over the country.

540
00:27:29,795 --> 00:27:32,236
It's our solution that
allows us to do that.

541
00:27:32,373 --> 00:27:38,097
It, it's because I'm in Idaho, so, which
we happen to be headquartered here.

542
00:27:38,874 --> 00:27:43,585
Um, but, you know, our solution will look
at the State of Idaho and provide me as

543
00:27:43,586 --> 00:27:49,244
a candidate, and our customers in Idaho
with all the right tools and information.

544
00:27:50,387 --> 00:27:55,901
So that's a case where the home address
and the workplace are the same, right?

545
00:27:56,014 --> 00:27:57,065
When you're- Right … remote.

546
00:27:57,752 --> 00:28:04,797
So we're capable of doing that in all 50
states, and it, it really opens up the

547
00:28:04,798 --> 00:28:10,921
hiring pools for our, our customers, so
they can really hire anywhere they want.

548
00:28:10,934 --> 00:28:17,242
We have a remote, uh, solution where
instead of somebody having to come into

549
00:28:17,244 --> 00:28:23,029
the office to sign all these forms, the
remote solution is send them the invite

550
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:24,338
and send them everything digitally.

551
00:28:25,060 --> 00:28:25,682
Mm.

552
00:28:25,744 --> 00:28:26,132
Right?

553
00:28:26,854 --> 00:28:27,228
That's great.

554
00:28:27,242 --> 00:28:29,610
And that's all the way to, like I-9.

555
00:28:29,611 --> 00:28:34,326
There's remote solutions for I-9 as
well, which we provide, that enables

556
00:28:34,358 --> 00:28:36,934
that kind of, uh, remote workforce.

557
00:28:37,915 --> 00:28:40,599
And, and, you know, um, we're
seeing that more and more.

558
00:28:41,614 --> 00:28:44,063
I mean, we used to be
mostly an Idaho company.

559
00:28:44,868 --> 00:28:45,175
Right.

560
00:28:45,257 --> 00:28:48,159
Uh, but COVID changed that for us.

561
00:28:48,643 --> 00:28:49,577
Yeah, definitely.

562
00:28:49,738 --> 00:28:54,207
So, you know, we used to have a
two-story building, uh, in Boise,

563
00:28:54,208 --> 00:28:57,382
and now we don't, and we don't have
as many people here as we used to.

564
00:28:57,439 --> 00:28:57,752
Right.

565
00:28:59,526 --> 00:29:04,710
So here's my follow-up, uh, and
this is, you know… Well, at

566
00:29:04,714 --> 00:29:08,677
any rate, y- you listen to it and
decide if it's even a question.

567
00:29:09,179 --> 00:29:15,776
I was thinking at first that having a
remote workforce might take away some of

568
00:29:15,804 --> 00:29:21,790
the necessity for background screening
because you're not necessarily having

569
00:29:21,793 --> 00:29:23,574
humans get in touch with one another.

570
00:29:23,604 --> 00:29:28,872
But then on the other hand, I was
also thinking now you have a workforce

571
00:29:29,205 --> 00:29:37,011
that is mostly unsupervised and has
access to the most critical aspects

572
00:29:37,014 --> 00:29:38,909
of a company through technology.

573
00:29:39,316 --> 00:29:48,790
So, has this whole remote workforce aspect
really changed anything at all for you

574
00:29:48,792 --> 00:29:51,121
guys, or is it still pretty much the same?

575
00:29:52,863 --> 00:29:55,087
Well, it's changed things for companies.

576
00:29:55,127 --> 00:29:58,911
Uh, uh, something you, you probably
don't know about me is I, I was an

577
00:29:58,916 --> 00:30:00,598
early advocate for work at home.

578
00:30:00,757 --> 00:30:07,752
I was the chair of, uh, a work at home
group in Phoenix, Arizona when I lived

579
00:30:07,753 --> 00:30:12,343
there, and we did… We would have open
source meetings with large companies

580
00:30:12,343 --> 00:30:14,258
and talk about work at home with them.

581
00:30:15,099 --> 00:30:18,611
You know, we're talking about
companies like Wells Fargo, U-

582
00:30:18,833 --> 00:30:21,507
and large insurance companies.

583
00:30:22,058 --> 00:30:25,623
You know, we're companies that had
employees all over the country.

584
00:30:26,339 --> 00:30:26,493
Mm-hmm.

585
00:30:26,862 --> 00:30:30,709
Um, so it does change a couple things.

586
00:30:30,737 --> 00:30:33,197
One is you gotta have the right
solution in place to be able to

587
00:30:33,198 --> 00:30:34,785
do it when it comes to hiring.

588
00:30:35,809 --> 00:30:38,019
But additional considerations
come into that.

589
00:30:38,036 --> 00:30:41,952
These are kind of screen-like
things, but, you know, you need to

590
00:30:41,952 --> 00:30:46,342
know that they have a workspace,
that the workspace is private.

591
00:30:47,537 --> 00:30:50,517
If you're gonna, if you're hiring
an executive like me that works at

592
00:30:50,517 --> 00:30:53,367
home, you need to do a credit check.

593
00:30:54,940 --> 00:31:01,308
If, so, uh, part of doing that,
for a company to do a credit check,

594
00:31:01,953 --> 00:31:05,846
they have to show the person that's
conducting that screen or launching

595
00:31:05,847 --> 00:31:09,554
that screen has a private workspace.

596
00:31:10,235 --> 00:31:10,648
Mm.

597
00:31:11,163 --> 00:31:14,052
You don't want people looking
over your shoulder when you're

598
00:31:14,057 --> 00:31:15,373
doing those kind of screens.

599
00:31:15,910 --> 00:31:16,194
Right.

600
00:31:16,194 --> 00:31:19,332
You don't want people looking over
your shoulder when those screens come

601
00:31:19,334 --> 00:31:21,273
back and you're looking at reports.

602
00:31:21,826 --> 00:31:25,500
So yeah, there are some
requirements around work at home

603
00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:27,336
that change a, a lot of things.

604
00:31:27,347 --> 00:31:30,558
So, like, for Verified
First, we have to do that.

605
00:31:30,558 --> 00:31:34,886
We have to show that our compliance teams
that are working at home have private

606
00:31:34,887 --> 00:31:37,408
spaces with doors that can get, be shut.

607
00:31:38,156 --> 00:31:38,345
Right.

608
00:31:38,345 --> 00:31:42,025
And, like, your kids aren't coming in
there and looking at stuff, or your

609
00:31:42,025 --> 00:31:45,266
husband's, or husband or wife isn't
coming in there and looking at things.

610
00:31:45,904 --> 00:31:49,056
You know, it, it has to be
a, an enclosed, secure space.

611
00:31:49,569 --> 00:31:49,906
Right.

612
00:31:50,058 --> 00:31:54,084
So, uh, all those things have to
be taken into consideration when

613
00:31:54,085 --> 00:31:55,362
you're, you're doing work at home.

614
00:31:55,808 --> 00:32:00,830
I also think it makes the screens
more critical You know, it makes

615
00:32:00,834 --> 00:32:05,457
background screening so many more
critical because it's different, right?

616
00:32:05,486 --> 00:32:10,982
When you're engaging with people remotely
versus in person, you know, sometimes

617
00:32:10,985 --> 00:32:13,389
body language c- gets taken out of play.

618
00:32:14,178 --> 00:32:17,517
You know, you don't have a good a
read as, on people as you would.

619
00:32:18,190 --> 00:32:22,276
You know, with work at home, it's
really about output and are they

620
00:32:22,276 --> 00:32:24,115
producing what they should produce.

621
00:32:24,522 --> 00:32:24,650
Right.

622
00:32:24,657 --> 00:32:26,704
And that goes back to
hiring the right people-

623
00:32:27,571 --> 00:32:27,764
Yeah

624
00:32:27,792 --> 00:32:30,954
… 
to the right job with
the right background.

625
00:32:31,530 --> 00:32:37,554
So, you know, it's… I think it, it
becomes even more important, not less.

626
00:32:37,582 --> 00:32:37,889
Excellent.

627
00:32:38,872 --> 00:32:40,244
That's g- good points.

628
00:32:40,571 --> 00:32:44,757
We, we'd definitely like to continue
this conversation with you, but I think

629
00:32:45,024 --> 00:32:48,221
what we'll do is w- we're gonna go
ahead and just wrap up the first part

630
00:32:48,260 --> 00:32:51,881
of this, and we'll have a part two,
a follow-up meeting with you, Ian.

631
00:32:52,261 --> 00:32:56,642
Uh, before we wrap up part one, uh, is
there anything else that you'd like to

632
00:32:56,646 --> 00:32:59,125
add about what we've talked about so far?

633
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,326
Well, you got… Now I have so much on
my mind, I don't know where to start.

634
00:33:03,442 --> 00:33:05,627
Uh- Um-

635
00:33:05,627 --> 00:33:09,126
W- without doing part two, is
there anything you'd like to add?

636
00:33:10,319 --> 00:33:14,568
Yeah, I would just say for anyone,
any company that ends up watching

637
00:33:14,569 --> 00:33:17,801
this, I, I would just reiterate,
please do background screens on your

638
00:33:17,801 --> 00:33:21,171
teams and make sure that they're the
right people for your organization.

639
00:33:21,437 --> 00:33:25,808
And obviously, we're there to help
with that, but more importantly, work

640
00:33:25,809 --> 00:33:28,453
with somebody to make that happen.

641
00:33:29,184 --> 00:33:29,206
Yeah.

642
00:33:29,206 --> 00:33:31,882
And make sure you're doing the
right screens for the right role.

643
00:33:32,968 --> 00:33:33,266
Right.

644
00:33:33,447 --> 00:33:34,293
Good food for thought.

645
00:33:34,334 --> 00:33:34,782
Thank you.

646
00:33:35,158 --> 00:33:39,428
Ian, if somebody who's listening
is interested in doing just that,

647
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,267
getting started with their own
background screening process, how

648
00:33:42,269 --> 00:33:44,203
do they connect with Verified First?

649
00:33:45,195 --> 00:33:50,491
They can contact me at
iboulais@verifiedfirst.com.

650
00:33:50,669 --> 00:33:55,544
They can go to our website at
verifiedfirst.com, and we have a

651
00:33:55,544 --> 00:33:58,553
form on site where they can ask
to find out more information.

652
00:33:59,216 --> 00:34:03,190
They can also go there just to see
all the different screens we provide-

653
00:34:03,806 --> 00:34:04,105
Mm-hmm

654
00:34:04,121 --> 00:34:07,365
… 
um, and find out more about the
background screening process.

655
00:34:08,172 --> 00:34:13,498
If they fill out the form, typically
someone gets back to them that day, and

656
00:34:13,498 --> 00:34:14,694
we're more than willing to help them out.

657
00:34:15,533 --> 00:34:15,712
Great.

658
00:34:15,712 --> 00:34:19,168
Okay, and we'll also link to
your website in our show notes-

659
00:34:19,391 --> 00:34:19,632
Okay

660
00:34:19,649 --> 00:34:22,931
… 
so that they can just one click,
and they can be right there.

661
00:34:23,259 --> 00:34:23,808
That sounds great.

662
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:23,911
Thank you.

663
00:34:23,911 --> 00:34:25,589
All right, well, thank you, gentlemen.

664
00:34:25,612 --> 00:34:29,292
I've enjoyed this conversation
today and learning about something

665
00:34:29,304 --> 00:34:31,491
that I knew absolutely zero about.

666
00:34:31,565 --> 00:34:36,435
Now I know a little bit more, so
thank you for that, and thanks to our

667
00:34:36,435 --> 00:34:38,114
listener or our viewer for tuning in.

668
00:34:38,435 --> 00:34:38,719
All right.

669
00:34:38,721 --> 00:34:38,731
Yeah.

670
00:34:38,731 --> 00:34:38,741
Catch

671
00:34:38,741 --> 00:34:39,118
us next

672
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:39,301
time.

673
00:34:39,301 --> 00:34:39,543
All right.

674
00:34:39,554 --> 00:34:41,333
And thank, thanks, Ian, for being here.

675
00:34:41,415 --> 00:34:41,665
Yeah.

676
00:34:41,705 --> 00:34:42,203
See y'all.

677
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,197
Thanks for tuning in to Testing,
Testing 1-2-3, brought to you by

678
00:34:47,212 --> 00:34:49,060
TestGenius and Biddle Consulting Group.

679
00:34:49,855 --> 00:34:52,830
Visit our website at testgenius.com
for more information.