Welcome to Plans Are Booked, a podcast for every reader.
I'm Molly Geller.
I'm Stephanie Blackburn.
And I'm Caitlin Madison.
Welcome to chapter 39, which is the age that I am right now, which feels kind of fun, even though I haven't really had that much fun as a 39 year old, to be honest with you, but
we're only four months into me being 39.
So maybe it will get better.
I was gonna say I'm 39 also and I just have like two months left to go in this year and it's been pretty fucking awesome.
I'm glad.
think I'm just, I just like, I turned 39 and I've just been like house hunting since I turned 39.
And also I left my teaching job in like a very like bitter, not pleasant way.
So it just like hasn't really been that good, but, but I have a lot left.
have a lot left.
So here we
There's still time to improve it.
We're happy to be back with all of you.
It's been quite a while since the three of us sat down to record together.
We sometimes pre -record stuff so that you guys don't have an interruption in your listening schedule.
But this is the first time we're around the table again in about two weeks.
Definitely.
Yes, Steph.
I was about to say reorgd, but I don't think that's right.
like reoriented.
Yes, Steph anxiety rearranged her dining room and her bedroom and her bed.
I actually just went to use the bathroom before we were going to start and I like did a double take and I was like, wait, is your bed on a different wall?
And sure enough it was, but she somehow moved the bed by herself.
and it's a steel bed.
is probably 800 pounds.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
I can definitely do a different chart myself.
pretty much it.
So we've all been like bouncing around and doing a million things over the last two weeks.
I'll start with my travels.
So I was up in New Hampshire at Lake Winnipesaukee with my cousins, which is this annual tradition we've had for the last seven or eight years.
We got a great weather week, which really everyone from New England or who grew up in New England knows the weather makes or breaks the
You to have sun, know, and you reach Lake Cool.
So we checked off and all that, the kids have been amazing time.
I had never seen a water out of season, only like campfire which was a delight.
Scout was an amazing, great guy.
He loved the cabin life, was like nothing.
Hardly anything he said.
was just like, no, he was not a good person.
I love the town of Wolfboro, New Hampshire.
If you're thinking about like a New England getaway, I'll give you listeners.
Anyone who wants my short list
of restaurant list sites to see here.
Just so you can look up that.
Wolf Bar on New Hampshire.
Just like classic.
And then I came back and I've been hosting my fam.
As listeners may know, my parents arrived July 15th.
They've been with me for a while now, but my sister and brother -in and niece and nephew came, which was great.
Little kids running around on the beach is the best, especially the like, let's chase the seagulls age is just like pure joy.
So now I'm back in Watertown for a couple of days and glad to be back at the table.
I have had a staycation week.
Well, it started off going places.
I went to Newport Folkfest and I stayed with my college friend, Kerwin, for a couple days.
And I saw some really good music and the weather was like 81 with like one single Ben and Jerry's cloud in the sky.
And like, it was the best weather we've probably had since pre -pandemic for the Folkfest.
And
Sassy bands that I've seen before, Sassy New bands, which was really nice that the leader was a new band, Sir Woman was a new band, but then I saw like Kulture and Black Krumas and
got started.
So was like a nice balance of new and old.
And ate some delicious food.
And then I went down to the Cape because my mom had a new history of sergillating, I had to down to Cape for all of the babies.
And then.
I came
I came back and it's just been like very hot.
I've had like a bunch of plans like get canceled and kind of like, you know, people are sick or people like overbook themselves or double book themselves.
And I've looked at a couple of houses and it's been a lot of Olympics watching.
so it's been pretty laid back, I would say the Newport Cape Cod.
that like four days was
a lot of like traveling in the car and like.
you know, being outside and whatever.
And then since I came back on Monday, it's been like pretty low key.
My brother's in France, so I've been checking on his cat.
It's been, it's been, it's been nice to like not be in the office, but I am kind of feeling like I need a little routine.
Like I need some routine back in my life because my sleep schedule is like a joke.
inside and out.
And I was just saying like today's August 2nd and I'm go run a check this morning because I didn't analyze what the date was yesterday because I haven't been at work.
So it's just like things like that that I need like to know what day of the week it is a little bit better probably.
So I don't want to say I'm looking forward to going back to my desk job, but I am looking forward to knowing what the hell, day of the week it is.
I've done some more dog sitting.
I think I have been dog sitting every single weekend since June.
Yeah.
And this weekend again, I will be dog sitting, just keeping up the streak.
Other than that, I have started writing a new book.
I'm not very far into it, but done a lot of planning.
feeling excited about that.
then yesterday I had a day at the barn.
I got bitten by a horse fly, which has never happened to me before.
I have a welt on my knee.
Almost thought I had been stung by like a yellow jacket for a bit.
It was like a fun sting.
They used to like swarm our pool because we lived in Carlisle in the woods.
And like, I can't tell you how many times I would duck under the pool to avoid them because they hurt so bad.
Well, one of the other volunteers got stung first on her hand, but I didn't even like feel it touch me until it had actually bitten.
No, it's too hot to wear pants.
I mean, if I was riding, I'd be wearing pants, but since I'm just walking around, I wear shorts.
So that was fun.
And then at the end of the day, after I had washed Monty, all the little kiddos were loading the trailer for a horse show.
three of the ponies had already gotten on.
One of them had fallen.
And then as they're watching, I had walked Monty around.
So was probably like a hundred yards away, but I could see through the woods.
The loudest crash I have ever heard.
And I look over and there is a horse on the ground and there is a girl on the ground and all the horses started winning, like checking in with each other.
when I left, they were sort of checking to see if the horse was okay.
The girl had a knee brace on cause I think she has a history
issues with her knee.
It was always sort of a frightening end, but then when I got, I just need to tell you, Monty is this behemoth of a horse.
He,
That's such a good animal name.
It's like such a good animal name.
He so he's black and white he's like a painted horse He has to be I would say probably 16 hands, which is like he's high He's the slowest horse I have ever worked with he was I
think the 2022 Hippo therapy horse of the year just to like
That's one that's amazing, but two did you just describe how many hands tall he was is that a horse thing because No
That's how you, that's how you, it's to their shoulder and it's, I don't know what the inches is, but that's how you tell how high a horse is, however many hands they are from
hoof to shoulder.
If you can picture.
Probably because back in the day we didn't have like feet and inches.
I don't know.
Because it
you tell me that the horse is 12 Stephanie hands high, I need to know how many feet that is.
And also, did you know that they describe Hello Kitty as being like six apples tall?
That's like her tagline.
did just actually recently learn that because I was listening to a different podcast where they were talking about how Hello Kitty is not a cat.
she's not a cat and she's six apples tall.
She's an Asian girl apparently is what she's supposed to be.
But the ears, but the ears.
Okay.
So hands.
Yes.
Okay.
So I would say that I can, I can touch the back of his, his back.
I can see slightly over it, but not by much if that helps.
Okay.
So he's bit, he's just very big.
Also his, his head is like, might as well be a dinosaur head, but anyways, he's a slow poke.
He's just like the chillest slowest dude.
So his, his field that he hangs out in is like, you have to walk through the woods to get to
So I'm returning him to his field at the end of the day.
And I also need to preface, his owner has four horses at this barn.
One is a mini pony and his name is Bernie.
And Monty and Bernie are like two peas in a pod.
So Monty and I are coming through the woods.
You can't see the paddock and Bernie just starts screaming because he knows his buddy is coming back to him, which is just hysterical.
I think I got a video of it.
I'd have to check.
but then I bring him back in and Bernie is thrilled, but Bernie is more thrilled that I am now in the pen with him.
And that means I have to spend five minutes giving him scratches.
And they didn't catch the first five minutes of the video.
They only caught the end, but he apparently was just like making the most ridiculous faces because I hit like the spot on him.
There were highs and lows, but it ended on a good note.
I love that you picked like one of the hottest summers on record to be like, let me go prance around in a barn with these huge animals that are, you know, 20 hands tall and
heads of dinosaurs.
Well, when I started in April, it was like chilly.
I had like a jacket on.
Sometimes it was rainy.
I think the fall is going to be glorious.
And also they did cancel.
There was at least one week that they canceled because it was like 97 degrees.
That's too hot.
I mean, these kiddos are also hot and the horses and us.
We almost canceled our whole lives today because it is too hot.
The damn humidity.
And you didn't mention how much Olympics you've been watching.
You're like the Olympic queen.
Well, to tell you, I got up at 6 a the first Sunday to watch Qualifiers for Gymnastics.
Basically, when I get up at 7 a I turn the TV on.
I watch.
I at least have it on the background the entire day until it's done with live coverage at like five.
It's been fantastic.
I have watched the usuals, gymnastics, show jumping, dressage, swimming.
I don't watch.
cross -country it terrifies me they almost always have to disqualify one horse because it gets hurt so I just don't watch that.
Did you watch the triathlon?
The women?
not that one the women at least no one was puking but I just I saw
were puking.
You just didn't see it because I was reading articles.
There were women quoted saying we saw things in the water we should never see again.
Well, they kept repeating the words.
stuff off.
the rain.
And I'm like, no, it's because there's poop and trash in there and probably cigarette butts.
Can we just go back to the horse bit for one second?
Sorry, not the barn, the Olympic equestrian.
So, because my family's been around, haven't been able to watch as much TV as I normally would.
I don't, Steph keeps me updated on what's happening, but I was scrolling through Instagram this morning and I saw one of the team USA athletes is Carl Cook.
Is that the Carl Cook that was married to Kaylee Cuoco?
Okay.
What's interesting about that is, so I followed her Instagram for a very long time, mostly for her animal stuff.
When they were married, she was posting horse stuff multiple times a day.
And since she's been with her new partner, she never posts horse stuff.
And I sort of don't follow, I mean, I still follow it, but I don't actively look at it because
she hasn't seen an athlete, but obviously it's very less.
We have like many bodies that she rescued from Kentucky and everything.
And she never put them anywhere.
And I don't think it's like too close to the heart because it's really into the language she had with him.
But yeah, he is a professional illustrator.
and now as another Olympic medal.
I feel like the Olympics have been really scandalous this year, like more so than other Olympics.
Okay, so there was a 19 year old Japanese female gymnast who was the captain of the Japanese team and she got caught drinking.
And so she was uninvited to the Olympics, which I feel like maybe she doesn't get to be the captain anymore, but
uninvited by whom her home country
Correct.
No, it wasn't the Olympic committee.
Because I think that would have just been a little tap on the wrist.
I'm pretty sure Japan said you're out, which I understand not making her the team captain anymore.
to be like, she's 19 years old to make like one little mistake like that, which like everybody does in their lives.
And then to be like, sorry, like four years of work is out the window now that
so insane to me and not appropriate in my opinion, especially when the Dutch have a child predator on their volleyball team.
He went to prison because he raped a 12 year old girl and he's just hanging out at the Olympics.
Do you have any idea how many children are at the freaking Olympics?
I was stunned.
And then there was something else that I read about and I was like, can everybody just calm down for like a minute?
I have to say my favorite part so far is, and I'm going to misremember what country he is representing.
I want to say Norway.
He is obsessed with the double chocolate muffins from the cafeteria and his posts are so good.
He, it's bananas.
It's like he's doing like romance videos with chocolate muffins.
It is so good.
Okay, I haven't seen any of that content so you'll have to send it to me I was also gonna say I'm very obsessed with Steven from Worcester, Massachusetts from team USA who was on
the gymnastics men's team only to do the pommel horse and the memes that have come out of the photo of him with his head sort of like tilted back against the wall eyes closed some
people's memes are acting like he's focusing
Obviously he had to wait a long time for his moment.
They said he gets really anxious, so he was trying to tune out everything until it was time to do his
total sense.
love him.
I've watched like 17 interviews with him.
He is so nerdy.
There have been a lot of like Clark Kent comparisons.
That's really generous.
He's like a mega nerd, like a like
he can do a Rubik's Cube in like nine seconds.
Yeah, anyway, I love him.
I also love Frederick.
Frederick flips.
I have started following so many new people on Instagram.
It's unbelievable.
Yes, he's also from Massachusetts.
And then I can't believe either of you haven't mentioned Ilona from the women's rugby team.
when people who are like kind -hearted get the spotlight on them because the amount of videos she has made about like body positivity, self -acceptance, believing in yourself.
Unbelievable.
I admittedly had never heard of her.
And then she started, you know, making all these funny videos that were getting served to me on Instagram and all of the stuff she's talking about even before they got their medal.
about everybody is an athletic body.
was like, yes, where have you been?
Did you see that Jason Kelsey wore a Hawaiian shirt with her face on it?
Sure did.
What is a more I've made it moment than that?
he, so he and Travis talk about rugby pretty often on the podcast because they're like, it's such a bad sport and they like, don't wear any pads or equipment and it's like, you
know, tough.
And they talk about how like, they would not make it in a rugby league like at
I saw a split screen video where Alona is speaking to a you know, sideline reporter about her college coach.
And then there's the split screen of the coach just sobbing, watching the video of her talking about how much she means to her as she went to Quinnipiac.
And I don't know, there's just so many wonderful New England athletes that are like crushing it.
And I love
It's pretty sweet.
Well, we're going to segue into the book that we're talking about, which is called Yellow Face by R .F.
Kwong.
And this book was on one million lists.
It was like nominated for a bunch of things.
was like every book club's book.
was, you know,
praised by everybody from Benetton and The Weekly to Kirkus Reviews.
just was a book that popped up everywhere.
And I didn't read it on purpose for a long time.
the premise sounded like it was going to be excruciating and cringy and difficult to wade through because it is about
because it's about one woman stealing another woman's writing and making it her own.
So...
I don't think that this like really gives anything away or it's you're going to know this from reading like any blurb probably.
basically this woman, has a frenemy, I guess I would call them.
Would you call them frenemies?
they're frenemies.
Rivals.
Frenemies, rivals.
So June and Athena go to school together and Athena's star rises very rapidly.
She gets publishing deals right away.
She's like celebrating that her book is being turned into like a Netflix movie or series.
And June is kind of like a long further ride.
And June would not call Athena one of her good friends, but I think Athena would call June one of her good friends.
because we find out pretty quickly that Athena was like a pretty molt -based writer and she was having a lot of success because she was just like shut out all of her connections
and just was like grinding it out.
And within the first 30 pages of the book, June and Athena are celebrating this Netflix deal.
And I won't get into all of the details, but Athena dies that night while June is there.
And June...
takes a finished, typewritten manuscript from her apartment.
which is insane because like her friend has just died in front of her face.
But she takes this manuscript and then she decides to give it to her editor and say that it's hers.
And that's within the first 30 pages of the book.
And then the rest of the book is June doing more and more abhorrent, horrible things.
And you just watch this woman
basically convince herself that what she's done is okay and all the success and athletes that she's gotten from doing this other woman's work is totally fine.
Like it's like no problem.
And as we further into the book, you really, really dislike June because there are many players to it.
She is a white woman that we know as the Asian woman.
The book that's being published is about Asian history and
She just somehow manages to convince herself that what she's doing isn't that bad.
And every time she's asked to speak somewhere or sign books or provide whatever, she just digs herself deeper and deeper and there just is not a lot of remorse or reflection on it.
You you don't like, you hate June basically.
Like you think she's just a total garbage person and you're like just waiting for everything to go up in flames the entire time you're reading it.
And yet you can't put it down.
Like that was the most shocking part for me was like, I read this in like three days.
I just like could not put it down.
The writing was so good.
It was so fresh.
It's not overly like wordy.
I thought that it just like really packed a punch.
And at certain points I felt like
like almost reading a thriller because of the pacing and because like you felt this momentum building of like, wow, she has just made her entire life a dumpster fire and
you're just like waiting for it to just unfold.
And so then naturally I made Molly and Steph read it.
all.
I did
not race through it because it made me so uncomfortable that I had to force myself to sit down and read it.
And that is not to say that it's not a fantastic book because it is.
There's something so uncomfortable.
mean, it's like multi -layered.
It's so uncomfortable that a person can steal someone who she claims is more than an acquaintance.
Her work, pass it off.
and not feel any remorse about that.
But then there's the other level of cringe of changing your name as an author to sound ambiguously Asian.
So that way it's even a little bit less bad that you're pawning this work off as your own.
It just, there were no right steps.
And I kept hoping, you know, I like to think that there's a little bit of good in everyone.
And I just kept waiting.
for her to have some sort of remorse or something to happen where she would realize how wrong she was.
And it hurt me to read this, but I'm glad that I did.
I'm glad that you made me.
I would definitely read anything else by RF Quang, but yeah, it made me incredibly uncomfortable.
First, I want to say I would never steal either of your manuscripts.
Just know that.
This is a book, kind of like what Caitlin was saying, I had known about for a while.
At my last PR agency, there was a book club and they did it as book club.
I just couldn't, the schedule wasn't right for me to read it in time, so I didn't get to join the discussion.
I saw in the Slack channel some of the musings afterward.
And I was like, I really should probably get to that.
But I did know that it was going to be kind of cringe.
People sort of said
I noted a few things I just wanted to mention, which is, Caitlin said this plot point already, but the opening sentence of this book is, night I watch Athena Lou die, we're
celebrating her TV deal with Netflix.
Like, what a fricking opener.
You're just right away like, what is this gonna be?
And both of you have kind of already said this, but I just felt like this is about a person with no moral compass.
Like she...
did so many deplorable, disgusting things and found new ways to justify it to herself just over and over and over again.
And every time you thought she'd hit rock bottom in terms of like the most deceitful things she could do, that was yet another layer.
And I circled this little bit that said, she's talking about a summer course that she's teaching.
This is kind of after the first like burst of fame from the book being published and she's kind of.
cringe in this.
right, so it says, I used to think that mean teachers were a special kind of monster, but it turns out that cruelty comes naturally.
Also, it's fun.
Teenagers, after all, are unformed identities with undeveloped brains.
No matter how clever they are, they still don't know much about anything, and it's easy to embarrass them for their ill -prepared remarks.
Can I tell you what that section I read and I was like, she's going to redeem herself.
She's going to have like, she's going to be this amazing mentor.
Yes, I know.
So that was one of the ones where sometimes I felt like this book was like reaching out from the page and punching me in the face.
Like the things were so brutal and so unbelievable and things she was making excuses for that just like I could never...
You can't really sympathize with her ever and any move that she's making, which is hard.
And then just the last bit, as everyone who listens regularly knows, I'm obsessed with the acknowledgments.
always read
Her opening bit in the acknowledgement says, Yellowface is in large part a horror story about loneliness and a fiercely competitive industry.
I kind of wish I had read that sentence first.
I, before I read the acknowledgement, I was like, this is coming full circle.
Like she made fun of Athena for like not having any friends and like thinking like that June was her friend and that they should like go out celebrating and June's like happy to
like have Athena pay the tab on all these drinks and like they're celebrating and whatnot, what have you.
And then it comes full circle.
And I think the big one of the big takeaways for me was yes, writing can be lonely, depending on how you set yourself up to do it.
But in addition to that, June, the reason she was such a monster and a huge freaking bitch this entire book is because who was holding her accountable?
She had no friends.
There wasn't really anybody that she had to do a lot of lying to other than her editors.
And in the few interactions there are with her parents, her parents basically like poo poo writing as a career, even when she's having this like super successful book that's not
hers, but they don't know that.
And so she really doesn't have anyone in her life that would even raise an eyebrow at any of this.
And she doesn't have to put in a lot of time or effort in lying or making up a sequence of lies that make sense and adhering to it.
because there isn't anybody calling her out on her crap.
Probably because she's not a very good person, so she hasn't really had any good friends.
But I just thought it was really rich that she was making fun of Athena for not having anyone at the beginning of the book.
then throughout the rest of the book, you're like, you know what, June?
Take a look in the mirror, because you're basically the same, except you're not as talented, and you're a liar.
What's interesting is when I looked up RF Kuang's timeline is she was published, I think, for the first time at 22.
So I wonder if maybe this has been slightly taken pieces of Athena's life from her own life.
Although who knows if anyone stole anything from her.
But you have to wonder.
but I feel like there were certain elements about the trajectory to get published that were so hyper -specific.
It felt like it must be from personal experience and also the way she described how this book got sort of like the star treatment.
And we know this because we're big readers and we follow this stuff closely, but like everything from how you get on the New York Times bestseller list and how that, you know,
gets sustained or doesn't over time.
the most prestigious speaking opportunities, the book tours, like all of those different elements.
I did feel like she must be pulling from what she experienced herself.
And also, I'm sure that jealousy feeling comes to every author at some point doesn't make you a bad person to see that other people are soaring and feeling like, God, I wish I had
that.
But there was like a, I don't even know what word to use, like brutal is just the one I keep coming back to.
There's this like brutal nature to the way that
She was letting all these accolades roll in, knowing that it was all in a lie.
That was just disgusting.
And I think books like this can be hard to stick with because it feels so wrong.
And you're like, am I going to do 200 more pages of just wrong and immoral and unethical?
But I think the reason it works is because the writing is so good.
And it feels like every word choice is intentional.
Every inner monologue or dialogue moment serves a purpose.
There's nothing superfluous in this book at all at any point.
And even when there's, I don't know if it's right to say decline, but slow down is happening after the first burst of fame for the book and you're kind of like, where is
this going?
Is she gonna get caught?
Is she not gonna get caught?
Even then, it's still felt kind of heart -pounding because you're just waiting for the other shoe to drop and.
I felt like for such a almost serious topic, it didn't feel very like adrenaline -y in a way that you wouldn't
There's only like, I would say one moment where she like really sweats about it.
And I'm not going to say what the moment is because it's like a pretty pivotal part of the book, but there's really only one moment where she is like actually sweating and like
actually considering what the consequences are.
And at that moment I was like, she's a psychopath.
Like it took until that moment.
And I'll tell you when we're off air, what it is, but
It took until that I was like, we're dealing with somebody who, or maybe borderline personality disorder, something where people don't really comprehend consequences in a
normal way, or if they do comprehend consequences, they don't really care about them.
Because at no point is she like, this isn't worth it.
I'm stressing myself out.
She's not losing sleep over this.
That's the really disturbing part about it.
And that just like propels you to wanna like read more.
I was like, I've never met a lady like this.
I need to know more about this psycho, because that's really what she is.
It's really psychotic behavior, and she has nobody calling her out on anything.
As someone currently outside of the publishing industry, it made me a little terrified of it.
And I mean, obviously this could be caricatures of life in it, but like the editor, the publicist, all of that, I was like, is
what it's really like inside the publishing industry because it doesn't sound like, you know, you read so many acknowledgments because we have read so many books in the past
couple years and it sounds like everyone is so supportive and loving and just welcoming and then you read a book like this and you're like, what's actually happening in the
publishing industry?
Yeah, it sounds pretty vapid if the book has any reality to it.
But I also think it depends on...
This is like a huge assumption.
This is not like factor research based, but like, I think if you're writing literary fiction, you are with some real elitist snobs in terms of the publishing industry.
Like you're with like the upper echelon, like you're brushing shoulders with people that are like, you
Booker nominated, Nobel nominated, like elite pompous, know, Alice Monroe types, if you will.
And I think that that's like what RF is like getting to in her book.
And I think that if you maybe do like romance novels or you like write collections of essays or like you're a humorist or, know,
then you probably have like, better opportunities to share with other people.
books than that because...
think that you attract the people that are like, I'd like to think that you attract the type of people that are the characters in your books.
And so I have a feeling like when you're in the literary fiction circles, it can get a bleak, cold.
you know, very, I would say it's probably the equivalent of just like being like a social climber, like wanting to have the accolades and all of that.
And it's not about like the fans and the writing.
It's about like the numbers and the awards.
And it gets a little gross.
That's my hope anyway.
Like I said, not fact based.
These are assumptions, but this is, I feel like that is maybe how it goes.
The other thing that I was thinking about when I got to the end of this is oftentimes I finish something and right away my first thought is like, my God, I hope this becomes like
a TV show or a movie.
And with this, I was like, I don't think I could handle this.
I think it would be nearly impossible.
And I also wonder if taking it into the visual medium might somehow soften her villainess in a way that like shouldn't happen.
And I rarely am like, done with this, but I just, I don't know.
There was something about how much it like shook me that I was like, I don't think this should come to the screen.
I was picturing when I was reading it, I was
what is her name?
She was just in that movie, book to movie.
my God, married to Ashton Kutcher.
Mila Kutniss.
I was thinking of her in Lucky is Girl Alive, where she's like just a beast, like one setting of like, I'm gonna work out, my clothes are gonna be pristine.
I'm going to be like super fancy.
I'm going to like shun my past.
I don't want to, you know, she makes a whole new persona for herself in that book and in that movie.
And the new persona is like kind of like a caddy bitch, if I'm, if I might.
And I just kept picturing June being like that.
Not necessarily like looking like her, but just that like really determined, like fierce, like get out of my way, bitch mode kind of stuff.
And I don't want that.
I know it is not me, but I'm saying that I'm just going to keep it.
It was probably a good thing, but I think that it would probably be a good thing.
What's also interesting, you just made me realize that it, her attacks are always through email.
They're like never face to face throughout this
which is so easy to do when you're not face to face with someone.
And then, for example, when she goes to, I forget what the event is for, there's a woman who meets her at the train station to take her to this event.
And that's like the first face to face where she just wants to high tail it out of there because she's realizing she can't go through with, well, she's not realizing that, she's
realizing she doesn't want to.
But I feel like she's not as fierce as the character in Luckiest Girl Live because everything she does is like an attack through email.
You know, it's not like she's actually going out there facing the person, having the altercation.
to the loneliness, right?
After that happens in the book, she's like, I don't want to do anymore.
I don't want to do a publicity tour.
I don't want to go kiss babies and sign books.
I don't want to do any of that.
And she just kind of holds up.
And I think that, I think if you don't have a thick skin and you can't handle any criticism, then like that, that's going to happen pretty quickly because you're writing
something that's going out into the universe.
Whether or not that's a good thing, I don't know.
I was kind of glad about it because I wanted to see her squirm because she didn't really squirm very often in the book.
I thought it was really good.
I would recommend it to a lot of people.
I thought it was really fast paced.
I thought it was well written.
It made me think a lot.
If everything about the publishing industry is true in that book, then I've learned a lot of things too.
too.
yeah, it was good.
Ellie actually read it in her teacher book club.
And when I said that people are it and we were doing an episode about it, she was like, wow, that book is intense.
That's how she described it.
She goes, it's intense.
That's all it is.
And she was right.
about what we're reading?
I can start.
I am reading a book called Margo's Got Money Troubles, which is by Rufy Thorpe.
I'm not mispronouncing this, R -U -F -I.
And I have seen this book everywhere.
I've seen it on like best new releases, best summer reading, and then also many friends whose book taste I really like and respect started reading it on
so when I was up in New Hampshire, there's a independent bookstore there called the country bookseller that I love.
And I always try to make at least some purchases while I'm there.
So I decided to get it.
This book, I was telling Steph this yesterday is just so singular that I cannot even come up really with another book to compare it to the main character.
Margot has an affair with her English professor.
This is not giving anything away.
is on page one and she gets pregnant.
And she has to figure out what to do.
That premise is one that's been told a million times about young person gets pregnant trying to figure out what to do.
But the next things that happen are so specific and strange that it's just like a universe that I didn't know could exist.
For example, her dad is like a famous WWE wrestler and comes back into her life to help her raise this baby.
So she's 20 with a newborn with this
money.
WWE star living with her like making bottles and burping the baby.
She also decides to make money to start an OnlyFans account.
Which I'm always surprised when authors like add something to the plot that's so specific to a certain period of time because who knows how long that site will be around or if 10
years from now people even remember what it is.
But there's so much detail around like how that website works.
how you get people to become your subscribers.
It's just the world that she's created for this character is so unusual that I'm enthralled because like it's all foreign to me and I'm just trying to understand how
everything works.
Her writing is really strong.
The inner monologue of Margo is great.
And I have no idea where it's going.
Like at all.
I can't tell where we're headed.
I can't tell.
what's going to happen next.
I'm on page like 210 out of like 350 and I'm just in like this weird land where I want to understand what is going to happen to this strange set of characters.
And I think it's amazing that a book that's about a pretty like unhappy topic, unwanted motherhood, is like climbing all these lists.
So a couple years ago on TikTok, I follow this woman named Tara on TikTok and she's like an influencer.
She lives in LA, she's from Rhode Island and I stumbled upon her because she's a Harry Styles super fan.
And when he did his residency in LA, she went to every single show and was buying pit tickets.
for every single show.
I don't know if you've seen the meme that's like, I'm gonna be in the pit.
Okay, well,
that's this girl.
So she starts blowing up on TikTok.
She gets into my algorithm via Harry Styles.
She posts a video that TikTok then bans and I'm following her on Instagram at this point too.
And I'm like, what's going on?
Essentially, she said on her TikTok, like before all these brands started being interested in me, like around the Harry Styles content and everything, because she's posting all
these videos like at the Harry, you know, and like her numbers are just blowing up.
So then brands start approaching her and now she's an influencer, et cetera, et cetera.
And she had gone on TikTok and said, like, I, my profession is I'm a sex worker on OnlyFans.
And
Tick up banned the video and so she then had to like put it on her YouTube channel and put it on Instagram like all these places and she has to very sneakily talk about her OF stuff
now but she rents out like one of those bungalows at the Beverly Hills Hotel to like film content because some of her subscribers are like they get
personal made videos.
like, and she's not
She's like a sex worker.
She's basically like a paid, like a really well -paid stripper.
Like she's not necessarily doing stuff with other people from what I know.
And she just bought like a $3 million house in LA.
Like she makes so much money.
And now it's because she has these brand deals too, but these brands know that she makes most of her living off of only fans.
And they're like, yeah, okay, whatever.
One of them's bloom nutrition.
like there's a bunch of like yoga and feature -wear which you wear, it's like all sorts of different stuff.
It's like, how sweet is this?
Yeah, excuse me, like one sort of thing.
So I found out about that book because Jimmy Fallon had it as one of his picks for his book book, which did get picked later.
The God of the Woods, which was the home of the...
it's her second book.
She wrote.
It was a mystery about a sister who...
It's a mystery about a sister whose...
It's two sisters in Philly and one of the sisters is a cop and the other sister goes missing.
Bright River, something.
I own, don't I own that in hardcover actually?
I think so.
That was a fantastic book.
is the woman's second book, and that's what got voted for Fallon's book club.
Long Bright River by Liz Moore.
Yeah, I would recommend that to anyone listening if you like sort of like mysteries.
It's fantastic.
Yeah.
would describe it.
That was really good.
So Jimmy Fallon, if you are interested in following his book club at all, he does a reading schedule.
So he says, we're going to be talking about pages such and such to such and such on this Friday's episode.
then so if you finish it by August 18th, you'll be on schedule with
which I haven't bought that book yet because it's kind of a tome and it's hardcover and I'm really trying not to buy hard covers even though the book I'm about to talk about is a
hard cover.
Weird.
So I'm reading The Faculty Lounge by Jennifer Matieu.
Matieu.
Me too.
Matieu.
My French is not so hot.
Matieu I'm going to go with.
Or Mateu.
Don't know.
-A -T -H -I -E -U.
Sorry, Jennifer.
we phone a friend?
I should have maybe done a little Googling.
Anyway, she wrote the book Moxie, which was turned into a Netflix movie and produced by Amy Poehler.
She has written four five other YA books and this is her first adult book.
She is a teacher.
She has written and published six books and has not stopped being a teacher.
My best guess is she likes having health insurance paid for.
she is both a book and a The faculty lunch.
I read the description of this.
could think of it.
I could read it.
was like new.
New books coming out this office.
And I...
I immediately like gravitated towards it because the premise is so good.
The premise is there's an 82 year old retired teacher at this Houston.
public high school, 4 ,000 students, Baldwin High School is the name of it.
He's retired from the school and he comes back to substitute teach.
I know a million people like this.
Everybody wants the former teachers to be their subs because they mean business and like work will get done in your absence.
He sits down on the couch in the faculty lounge, kills over and dies.
that happens within the first pages of So then, they have to wait for the quarantine office to come and they to put a shoe in head that and all the faculty and staff have to
come to the front door and say please don't go the front door, there's something It's so funny, but also so dark and so something that would happen.
I was thinking that there was a car, but there was nobody tied up.
at the high school.
Probably.
Like, if I know that it was next summer, did anyone die there?
And each chapter kind of shows a different perspective of a, of a different teacher at the school.
So you've got like the seasoned salty veteran teachers that have been there a million years.
You've got the new principal that's like trying to keep things organized.
and up and down.
And then you've got two new teachers that like, fall in a closet during the lockdown period.
And they're like, just walking towards the door, are you gonna take care of it?
think this is like your lifelong career?
And the other one's like, probably not.
But like, what else am I going to do?
Like, it's so real.
And it's so funny.
But it's like, every other paragraph I'm nodding along like, yep, that happened to me.
That also happened to me.
Yep, that would that totally would happen to me.
And
The next page I'm like laughing so hard I'm crying.
And then the next page I'm like, I feel bad for these people.
Like, been there, done that.
And like, that is not a pleasant thing to go through.
And it's just like, you're going to read it and you're going to be like, we should be paying teachers a million dollars a year because you just like, in like a very concise,
well -written way.
this author has like completely captured what it's like to be in public school because in public school you get everybody.
You have to deal with every kind of person, every kind of kid, their parents.
You're dealing with older teachers, younger teachers, teachers that think they know everything, teachers that probably shouldn't be there anymore.
It's just...
I've been telling everybody to read it.
I'm only halfway through it I'm like, I don't even care how this ends because each chapter could be like a standalone short story almost.
It's so good.
I'm loving
Okay, I read earlier this week, We Don't Swim Here by Vincent Tirado.
I think Belmont Books
I think I'll go.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that they had this in their employee recommendation section a while ago.
it is, I guess I would describe it as like a YA ghost story almost.
It's about this young girl, Bronwyn, whose family ends up moving, they say for a year, to the small town that her father grew up in because her grandmother is in an old folks home
and is not doing well.
But in the meantime, he's not been speaking to his brother who still lives in the town.
So Bronwyn has a cousin there, but they aren't really close.
And the town motto is we don't swim here.
And no one will tell Bronwyn why.
And she's a swimmer.
So she's like, what do mean there's no water in the pool at the gym?
What do you mean I'm not supposed to swim at the lake?
So I don't know how to really get into this without.
ruining it.
But basically there are a lot of rules in this town.
Everyone knows about them.
Everyone abides by them.
Because if you don't, there is a chance that the ghost who lives in the lake will come out and drag you back into the lake with her type thing.
But you don't really know for most of the story if this is just like some stupid thing that parents have told their children just to like keep them in line.
You know, like go to bed at the time you're going to say and like don't have parties and that sort of thing.
Or if it's actually
a true thing.
I would say like half the book you're sort of like, is this real?
Or is it just parents keeping kids in line?
Because the kids don't really talk to the parents about it.
It's just sort of like the kids talk amongst themselves about certain rules.
And every, think it's 10 years or so, a body basically has been claimed and ended up in the lake.
this...
journalism student from college comes to the town and Bronwyn meets her at the library and is sort of like researching how did all these people die in the last however many years.
And that's how Bronwyn, since no one will tell her the rules, because they're like, you're just living here for a year.
You don't need to know what the rules are.
Just keep to yourself.
So she starts understanding what the heck is going on in this town.
And then it becomes more of a ghost story as you go on.
It was fast -paced.
was fantastically written.
don't know if Vincent has written another book.
no, Vincent does have one more book.
But I hope there are many more because this was like a fun why.
I mean, it did actually freak me out a little bit.
I was reading it at night time, but it was great.
Also, just while we're on the YA subject, I don't think I had a chance to tell either of you this.
So my cousin Lila's 13.
She's a huge reader, was a huge Harry Potter fan.
I found out while we were in New Hampshire that she read the whole Divergent series, the whole Hunger Games series, and she had just finished Delirium.
And I was like, we did this episode about Lauren Oliver.
So when we all parted ways at the end of the vacation, she texted me, thanks so much for the book recommendations.
I just started panic.
It was so cool.
Honestly though, it was so cool to like hear that she's reading books that we read and loved as adults.
And it makes me feel like as she continues to get older, I'll be able to make like more and more sophisticated recommendations.
But I never read YA until you two started encouraging me to do that.
And I feel like now I have this common ground with her.
That's
so yes, stuff.
I understand what you're saying about it being like a little old for a 13 year old, but also 13 year olds have social media and watch a lot of shows and you know, things that we
did.
And like, I think about my 13 year old self and like, was watching Dawson's Creek and 90210 and all these things that like, I may or may not have, should have been watching and
I lived.
Also her favorite show right now is the original full house, which just like cracks me up.
I think it's just like, I think the laugh track is just like soothing.
Yeah, that's probably that's probably true.
If I was gonna like tell a 13 year old right now to like go and watch an old show, I think I'd go say by the bell.
-hmm.
feel like Boy Meets World is kind of a classic.
That is a classic.
And every year I show the Wonder Years because every year that I have taught middle school, there has been a coming of age unit because that's just how Massachusetts rolls.
And every year I show the original Wonder Years and every year I have at least five kids be like, I finished the whole series because that series just still resonates.
It's so good.
so good.
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And until next time, our plans are booked.