you won't let me feel what I feel
hmm
and I was just like blown away by this
here's this four year old kid
and he's got more emotional intelligence than I do
like recognizing like
I just need to feel this for a minute
just you know
stop making me not feel it
yeah and then if you wanna joke about it later
you can right
right it's not like
don't have a sense of humor or joke around
and if that's your way of handling things okay
but he was just saying like
give me a second to feel it
we'll joke around later yeah
welcome back to raising Men
today's guest is Ellie Weinstein
he's a therapist an author
and a relationship expert
who helps men show up better as partners and fathers
he's the host of the Dude Therapist podcast
and the founder of elevation
where he brings empathy humor
and real talk to conversations about mental health
and connection his new book
From I Do to we do
helps guide couples through the emotional transition
into parenthood Ellie
thank you so much for joining us on Raising Men
thanks for having me you know
I'm so happy that this podcast exists
because
I don't think a lot of men have ever been raised
the right way
and taught the things that they need to be taught
and you opening these
conversations and having these things is so iconic
especially in today's world
so I'm super thank you for that
you know I'll tell you I
I haven't been taught what I need to be taught
and the whole purpose of this podcast is really
partially my journey
to go figure out what excellence means in this
in this category I recognize that the
the world that my son is going to graduate into
is so fundamentally different from the world that
that I did that I grew up into
that it's just the my reflexes are not tuned
to what he needs in order to be able to thrive
I love that I love like the
the uh
funny selfishness of but also like hey
I need to learn and let's go and let's
let's make something happen about it
that's exactly right I might as well do it in public
yeah
well tell me
you know so your
your book is perfectly suited to this conversation
I think what
tell me about what inspired you to write
from I do to we do
and what gap are you hoping to fill for new parents
or people in relationships
yeah um
what inspired me is
a publishing company asked me to write one
um I OK
I hate writing
and it's just funny saying that now that I'm an author
um how afraid I was
and depending on the day still I am writing
I'd rather have a TV show
a podcast
speak in front of thousands and millions of people
on a stage than write a tweet thread
Instagram blog post or whatever
so it was more of a publishing company
I'm telling you I'm the exact same way
oh I hate it
you know why cause with speaking to me
it's off the cuff even though I prepare
my brain works quickly with my ADHD
that I can come up with stories
I can connect things and I'm in that flow state
with writing
my grammar sucks my ideas are great
how it connects and flow
and does it speak to the reader
it's very static
there's no tone there's no energy
you wanted to be professional
but you wanted to be like
like there's so many other things with speaking
my tone my energy
you can feel it yeah
yeah there's a
there's a feedback loop
exactly that happens that you get from the audience
or even just if you if you're just speaking one on one
there's a feedback loop that you get
and you feed off of this other person's energy
we're writing they feed off of yours
it's there
and that I have no feedback except this book sucks or
wow that really helped me yeah
um but uh
it was really like a conversation with the publishers
who
who I guess they found me through my podcast and this
that and the other thing
and I noticed that there are not a lot
of crossover books of parenting and relationship at all
there's one book I think
in the 80s called Crib Sheets
that really combines the two
and to me it's secretly
this book is 80% a relationship book
for anyone and everyone yeah
20% through the lens of being a parent
that is what it is and it's the basic
foundational things that I do every day
with couples and individuals
focused on relationships
I throw individual stories of my marriage
um stories of the craziness of having two little kids
yeah and also the therapeutic stories of my practice
and to me it's just this combo of
things hit the fan so fast when you have kids
yeah and for the most part
your relationship falls to the wayside
because you're in survival mode
of raising a human being that cannot do it themselves
right and we don't really focus on the relationship
and keep that thriving when it is possible
but we're just so damn tired
and we're just so overwhelmed
and we're at each other's throats
and all these different things
that are coming together at one point
and this is the book for anyone in that stage
where there's like
quiet or even very loud noises in our head going
who the hell am I sitting next to
or how did we get here or what relationship
who the hell has time for that
yeah that is the
this is the book for you and again secretly
it's an 80% um
relationship book for anyone and everyone
but I was asked to make it a little more specific
and niche or nishade
as I say yeah
and hopefully everyone enjoys
you know I'll tell you
I wish I I wish I had this book
that's what everyone tells me
years ago when my boy was born
because I my wife and I
we were it was
I don't know how else to describe it
it was agony we were at each other's throats constantly
we just were not a team yeah
and what we ended up having to do is literally I
we sat down and I said OK
you and I have to come to an arrangement
and the arrangement is no matter what
will not get divorced
before the boy is at least 1 year old
like we know the the
our lives are
so different now from what they were two months ago
and literally a year from now
they will be so different again
yep and we just can't be making any sorts of like
this feels unsustainable to me
and we can't pretend that
that we just can't draw that line over into infinity
yeah but and so
and it and it actually caused a problem
because when the boy was about to turn 1
my wife was sort of starting to get upset
she's like oh
we're gonna get divorced now
no no no
that wasn't the deal that's not what
I meant I didn't say we are
but we're not going to unless by a certain point
ha ha yeah
and I know and
and I I start the book that way
by the way the book's introduction is
literally
one of the hardest fights my wife and I have ever had
in our marriage we've been together for 11 years
one of the hardest fights we've ever had was the
our anniversary
during the first year of our daughter's life
yeah where we live
I I know
and I've maybe other couples have done this
it's not that we don't fight
we get into fights all the time
I'm talking all out screaming
I'm talking sleeping in another room
we were in a hotel yeah
like I've never argued that hard in a public
not that it was in the lobby
but the walls are pretty thin in a hotel room
yeah we were at each other's throats screaming
we lost it and it was over something so stupid
I wrote that I don't remember
cause I didn't wanna write it
but it was over
like who to go to for the holidays that year
like it opened up this can of worms
because we did not communicate
we were so overwhelmed
and we did not know how to talk about it
without stepping on each other's toes
I was going through panic attacks
I was going through anxiety
that I never experienced before
um it's actually a thing
that most men don't talk about
or even isn't talked about
is the postpartum anxiety
in men it is very researched in women
it's not very researched in the father
um but it is something very
very common and over the last couple of years
of the work that I've done
in my private practice
I've had men who are in their thirties to high 40s
who finally come to therapy and say
but on their own not pushed by their partner
who say hey Ellie
this isn't working I wish I had you in my life earlier
I should have called you in my 20s
I should have dealt with this
I thought I could handle it
and I can't or life has changed and I need to adjust
and I don't know how I need to pivot to new skills
I don't have them the things I used to do worked
now aren't
and it's such an honor
to be able to do that with people
but at the same time I need it myself
and that
the book was me kind of telling how I worked through it
because I was not okay
and I don't think any couple really is
and any couple who says oh
we're fine after having a kid
when literally not even two months
three days before your world was different is lying
it doesn't mean that you
everyone's getting divorced once they have kids
but it definitely pushes buttons that you
never knew existed it's such a strain
it's such a strain
why do you suppose that men struggle with vulnerability
and asking for help the way
why does it take you until your 30s to
to finally go man
I can't take this anymore
why why do we
why are we like that uh
such a loaded question and it's so
so hard to answer like in a podcast
and I write in the chapter from dudes to dads um
I did some research on it and there's a
there was a new book that came out
after I already submitted
like all the information
and I can't really touch the book anymore
it's like it's done
it's out of my hands right
a boys to men oh um
not the band not the
not the acapella group boys to men
and I forgot who wrote it
the author I have it upstairs in my bedroom
it's on my to to read next yeah
um of the
really the social research
and the science behind how men have been raised
over the generations the
what I
and my research and the work that I've been doing with
with a lot of people um
is the envision Sparta right
the movie Sparta where the guy yells like
this is Sparta and like kicks the guy into the well
right every single culture has had tests right
whether it's
certain cultures that have the bees on the hands
or a bar mitzvah or a baptism
whatever religious or even cultural
of going out into the wilds back in the day
or kind of coming of age story of being tested yeah
we don't have that so often nowadays
and we don't know what it's like to really be tested
or pushed
to be challenged to what it means to us to be a man
what it means to be masculine
what it means that we accept what that means
not what society defines not what's toxic
I hate that toxic masculinity concept
it's so ridiculously and stupid
because just because someone has intensity
doesn't mean they're toxic um
there is quiet toxicity that happens most of the time
but that's might be a whole another podcast
in which I'm more than happy to talk about
on those on that note
there's I don't think there's such a thing as toxic
masculinity either
it's I think there's just really bad men
there's shitty behavior and then there's masculinity
and those two things
it can't be more opposite than each other
but once they started phrasing it as toxic masculinity
what it did is it attached masculinity to toxic
that's right and that's the problem
because there are masculine women who are not toxic
and there are feminine men that are not less man
masculine and so
this idea of
this pressure of vulnerability is this uns
this safety issue of
if I'm gonna open up and be my truest self
how will you accept me
because I've been told by society
or culturally over generations
that I have to be the warrior
the protector the
the strong one
the loud one the if there is danger in the house
who's going downstairs with the baseball bat or gun
it's the man right and you do you in your relationship
if that's how you want to do it
but the point is that
there is this intensity of the strength and power
and it has been taught that vulnerability or openness
or emotions except for anger or happiness is accepted
and it is something that is very pervasive
and a very hard thing to relearn
when you have been taught
now depending on when you grew up
whoever's listening
if you grew up in the 80s and nineties
if you were off or you were not accepted
or you were not masculine
you were automatically called gay
or something's a problem with you
being gay is not a problem with you
it's just like
but that was a that was a slur like oh you're so gay
why you're not
you don't fit the box that we as a society
or we as the cool group of men have decided yeah
but in reality
there's a spectrum of who you are as a man
and some days you show up one way
another way you show up different way if you
and the beautiful thing of nowadays
I know I'm going on a rant
here but a beautiful day nowadays
is that you see such of these strong athletes
who are the epitome of power
a football player running 20 miles an hour
ramming into another human being
a UFC fighter right saying hey
I'm gonna show a picture of me as a dad
and be smiley and laughy and jokey and silly
I'm gonna be vulnerable and say hey
I'm having a hard day I need to take a day off
like that is happening as well today
and those things are proving
and showing men around the world
be yourself what is today
what is tomorrow are totally different
even within the same day you have different roles
and different opportunities to be your truest self
and it's relearning that as a society
and it's happening just slowly
there's something that's really beautiful about
bringing your struggle out into the real world
yeah and there's something that's really empowering
about that too
and I I mean
it's like one of the metaphors that I like to use is
who's the stronger boxer
the guy who has an impenetrable shield
or the guy whom doesn't need a shield at all
and you can just whale on his face
and it doesn't affect him Rocky
you know which one of those
literally Rocky right right
Rocky was the guy who took all the shots
right and took it took the beating until he
the other person got tired right
that's the whole all 50 of those movies yeah
right was him getting beaten to a pulp
and then the last ability he had was the strength
the power was I can take all these hits
and I can show that I can bleed
but guess what you're gonna tire out
cause when you get tired
I'm jumping on that opportunity
and then you have the other boxers who were like
you know the fast step
you know or the pure power
but had their you know
and of course you know
it's just a movie and based on someone maybe
but uh yeah
and it's it's such a
it's such a beautiful experience to be able to
to be yourself
yeah it's
it's cause
I've worked with so many men
who are trying so hard to be something else yeah
that that
that pressure is what breaks them not
not the feel not the vulnerability
if they actually just let go and
and were themselves they wouldn't feel so tight
they wouldn't feel so angsty
they wouldn't feel so angry
they wouldn't feel so obsessed with that
I need to be for other people
if you were just yourself
there would be this breath
or space to just live your life yeah
but what we're doing is
they're putting on a show and protecting and being so
so oh my gosh
who am I now who am I now
who and it's so in their head that they just
they burn themselves out and
then they crash
yeah it it's
you know it's like we've been told all our lives
maybe even for generations
uh to
to man up right
but Manning up what that envisions
or what that elicits in your mind is closing up
yeah and
you know putting your guard up and
and you know
struggle through it and and shoulder the Grindstone
but you know
the real Manning up
the real masculine move there is really to open up
and there's nothing wrong with
with being tough yeah
there's no problem with seeing a problem
and looking at it and not freaking out
and standing there and going
here's how I'm gonna here's how I'm gonna deal with it
right but it's also okay to also get freaked out
and then think it through and figure it out yeah
like that's okay too
it doesn't mean you're cowering in the corner
as people envision the joke I always make with uh
like the in the vision of what people think
like having emotions are
is a very famous scene in friends
with Bruce Willis and Rachel and uh
Jennifer Aniston and they're dating
and Jennifer Aniston asks Courtney Cox's character uh
Monica like hey
I wanna open up my you know
Paul I think his name is
I don't know how whatever
and she gives her some secret
and the next scene is literally
Bruce Willis on Jennifer Aniston's lap
just bawling like a baby
and she can't handle it she's like
I didn't ask for this
and everyone thinks that that is what the envision is
that once we start opening up and being vulnerable
that we just won't be able to control it
I think that's the fear right
yeah that is
that our strength
is in being able to hold all that stuff in
and if we and the fear of the other person going
I don't like that yeah
no no
no put that back no
no no
no that's ugly
don't do that again yeah
how do you suppose we
keep that virus from infecting our sons
I think by two things maybe three
depending on where my ADHD brain goes today
um the first one is you doing it yourself right
kids learn by watching not by being told
they really just soak in like a sponge
everything that's happening around them
so how you love your partner
how you show emotions hugs
kisses uh
tushy squeezes whatever your love language is
however you wanna show it
that's a beautiful thing for them to see
that you have emotions No. 2
are you gonna show the emotions to them
are you gonna hide it like if you're crying
are not that you should be like look
look I'm crying right
yeah but if
but if you're crying and your kid goes
hey dad are you okay
and you're honest with them saying yeah
something just made me sad
or I'm really frustrated or overwhelmed
you're not putting that burden on the kid and saying
I need you to fix it that's unhealthy
but being honest about it is teaching them that look
dad has emotions and I saw them
and then the other thing is
how you talk to them about their emotions
so if they have an emotion
it's not saying hey
stop crying grow up
my son is three and a/2 yeah
him crying about something that bothers him is
hey bud
what's going on why are you so upset
talk to me yeah
it's not stop crying
it's I wanna understand why you're crying
cause that's okay yeah
or you're hurt
now there is a thing with parents
a parenting about when a kid falls saying
are you okay or not right
the answer is you're gonna be okay
I'm sorry you're in pain right
but you're gonna be okay yeah
it's not get up wipe off
you know your
your body and and keep moving
grow up yeah
so the words and how we express it
how we talk to them
teaches them the value of their emotions and feelings
and helping you understand it
and them understand it is part of that equation
and uh
hopefully that clicks and in the end
it's not up to us
they're gonna do what they wanna do with it
you know yeah
you know I
I had an experience like that with my boy going
it was about a maybe a year or two
ago and in my
in my family
we always use humor as a shield
yeah right
and I remember
you know the worst thing
worst thing that ever happened to me was
was my mom dying of cancer when I was 21 years old
and I remember making a joke
five minutes after it happened
uh huh
and so like two years ago
I was
my my son was having a really hard time with something
and he was and he was very upset
and I started goofing around with him
and started making jokes and stuff
to try and get him to laugh
yeah and it was my way of like I
I couldn't handle him being upset
and so I
I was trying to make him laugh to get him out of it
and that's cause that's what I do right
and that's what I want to do
and that's what I want other people to do for me
and he says to me he starts laughing
and I said and and
and he and he says
he says dad stop
you won't let me feel what I feel
and I was just like blown away by this
here's this four year old kid
and he's got more emotional intelligence than I do
like recognizing like
I just need to feel this for a minute just
you know stop making me not feel it
yeah and then if you wanna joke about it later
you can right right
it's not like
don't have a sense of humor or joke around
and if that's your way of handling things okay
but he was just saying like
give me a second to feel it
we'll joke around later yeah
yeah yeah
and so and I mean
I like that I
I like the idea of being able to connect back
and there is there is
a strength in being able to joke about your foibles
and joke about the
the awful stuff that has happened to you
there's you know
there's some of that too
but as but avoidance isn't a good strategy
yeah and certainly
like training him to avoid feeling sad is not right
it's not good yeah
that's why like you know
a lot of people when they're
they're raising their kids
a lot of a lot of parents
myself included are all about distraction right
if a kid gets hurt you go
you know like you make a funny face
you do a silly thing or or when a kid's upset or a baby
you try to distract them right
but like that's for us yeah
cause we want them to stop
so I don't have to feel bad that you feel bad
yeah or like
I don't wanna listen to you crying right
so like stop it
yeah yeah
it's a great story and so that's
that's one of my little demons that I have to
that I have to work through is
is you know and but you know
he's he's pretty smart kid
he can he can teach me yeah
clearly that that's a yeah
I remember once my daughter
she was learning about like
emotions in school or something
I don't know she was in daycare
yeah and she came home and she like patted the
like the couch next to her and she goes daddy
come let's talk about our emotions
I was like aren't I'm the therapist
what are you doing you're a kid daddy
I wanna talk about my emotions
I went okay awesome
I love that I yeah
I would yeah by all means
let's do it yeah
I man that's great what do you you know
what else can we do to create a home environment where
we welcome
emotions and
and we
we we don't shut them down and and all of that stuff
how can we as as fathers
try and create that environment
yeah and I think I think it's having a game plan with
you know your your the home right
and the the the the the partner
I I do this thing with a lot of couples and I
I was taught this by a a mentor of mine
his name is Josh Goller and it was the idea of like
something called the Import Export List
and what it is is sitting down with
you can do it with a friend if you want
if that's the kind the relationship do with your wife
your husband whoever it is and you sit down and go OK
for this home for this unit
what are the imports and exports that we want to keep
as like guidelines
home rules whatever it is yeah
some people
the export is no slamming doors in the house
that is an export right
that that that pushes me in a ways
I don't like an import is we want our house to be open
friends wanna come over people knock on the door
that are our friends or family welcome
like we're not gonna be like
what are you doing here what time is it
get out of the house yeah
of course boundaries and respect
but that is part of that conversation is
how do we want to raise our kids
don't do it before you have kids
cause you have no idea what the hell that means um
it's all theory and that's nice
do it okay there are theoretical things like
don't hit your children and don't
and then you get to laugh at yourself
a year later about what you wrote
we thought we were gonna do this haha
you're like what
we were gonna not use TV um
that is insane um
it's okay to watch TV your kids are not gonna be ruined
just do other things also um
but like the import export is a
but
it also opens a conversation between the two people
where like what the culture they grew up in
the maybe religious things that they grew up in
maybe the perspectives that they were taught about
emotions feelings
um how to think and
and and
and go through the world
so it is a beautiful thing to go oh
you know here's how we deal with holidays or
you know stress before guests come
or the environment and culture that you grew up in
sometimes becomes the norm
and another person goes that's not healthy
no one does that except for you guys
I'll give an example when growing up
travel was very stressful
my mom would get very intense about packing
we would start packing like a week before
when I got married and I was with my wife and I like
okay we're gonna go on a trip
I started getting all tense and angsty and she's like
what's we're like
I'm like two weeks out what are you getting antsy about
like I don't have a problem flying
I don't have a problem you know
going places
I love going and enjoying the world and traveling
if I can yeah
my wife's like what's wrong
I'm like I don't know
like I've never thought about like
what do you mean like
she's like are you worried about packing
I'm like yeah
I I overpack because I try to counteract like
not having enough like I'm like
oh my gosh it could rain
um and she started making packing lists
and it took all the anxiety away because I was like
oh I have a clear thing
she's like yeah
it helps me be organized and then we have it together
but it's because of my the environment of my childhood
of packing equals intensity yeah
so we had a conversation about it
so these things will come up
so tip use pencil on the paper
don't use a pen so you can
you know
what's pencil no one use a pencil anymore
but the idea use a digital media right
use a digital or Google DOC
right or apple note is just have these conversations
and when situations come up that you don't agree with
or rub you the wrong way yeah
have a meeting with each other
go hey
not in the moment
don't call each other out in the moment
yeah that's a good way to not have the fight too right
yeah just remember hey
what happened there let's say that's the Sunday meeting
like yeah
why is that something that you think is
you would do oh well
you know that's what my
my dad didn't like that
when I did that in the house and just came out yeah
oh well
I don't really like that
I don't like seeing that in you
that's not how we want to raise our kids
oh I didn't think of it that way
or no I like this
because let's figure out if that's something
that fits for both of us right
or come up with a way to make it fit for both of us
yeah there's some principle here
that we can probably agree on
yeah exactly
yeah you know
I feel like that's a really good way
a really good
practical way to give the kids agency in their lives
too
is incorporating them into that discussion
and have it be a family meeting alright
as a family we're deciding to focus on these things
and it's not imposed what worked this week
what didn't work this week
yeah like
and of course we gotta take it with what
how old they are and how you know
but if a kid's like 8 to 10 years old
they have very
clear thoughts of what they like and don't like
they're not like a 3 year old kid who just likes
my son likes dinosaurs and cars
like that's all he likes yeah
right or candy exactly
but like
that also means what are you gonna do on the weekends
yeah you can ask them
it's not well
daddy wants to go watch football for 80 hours and we're
you know we can't talk to him
if that's how you do it do you
no judgment um
but have a conversation
talk bring them in
if there's a buy in to the home
yeah and it's a buy in out of respect
not you're doing chores and free labor
but a respect for the home for how we do things
the enjoyment the love
the happiness
it's not all perfect in unicorns and daisies
of course
but they're bought in and it's exciting
they're like oh
I matter it's not just mommy and daddy
yes mommy
daddy are making the rules
and mommy and daddy keep the chaos and
and control
but I have agency within that framework
I'm not just going along to get along
because mommy and daddy make all the decisions
and again the kids are not making decisions
they're children but it's yeah
they can
they can partake and giving up ideas to the board
yeah right
like the thought the thought boards like oh
that's a good idea great job
you know you thought that's a wonderful idea
and they're like oh me
thank you yeah right
that's that's wonderful
yeah so much of
I mean when I watch my son I
I I can see the tension in him
there's so much of his life
is this tension between wanting to be independent
and wanting to be connected
and I mean sometimes
you know it'll
it'll happen where he's screaming
I just want love
like like
I mean you
you you are
at the same time
pushing me away and then complaining that I'm
I'm not next to you and um
and I feel like times when you can get that
it's actually pretty easy for us
at least in our family to
to create that connection
we're very physical we're we
you know my boy and I wrestle all the time
we're like we're it's
it's that's not a problem for us
but the independence bit that
that is a place where it can be a little bit harder
especially since some of the stuff oh
I just wanna watch YouTube for six straight hours
and I really don't want them on YouTube
and so it's
places where you sort of get the independence for free
I always perk up when I see opportunities like that
yeah I love that
and then and things
and things change you know
like
a lot of parents think when they first become parents
that they have to like
be on top of their kids playing with them all the time
yeah
and there's nothing wrong with like play with your kids
like enjoy time with them yeah
but my point is like
it's okay if they're in the other room yeah
playing by themselves and enjoying life
I don't need to be in the same room
for them to be happy right
they can be like we have a playroom in our house
there are days where I'm like
where's my son and I look in and he's like
he's just sitting there
playing and talking to himself and having a good time
he's being a beautiful child
I don't need to then go in there and and
and play with him right
and then get frustrated that he
I'm not playing the way he wants me to yeah
like it's okay yeah
like embrace that it's wonderful
so it's so beautiful to watch
I wanna actually
I wanna drill down a little bit more on this
dude to dad transition
what is I I felt this absolutely
I mean that was an absolute cusp for me
and especially since for me I
I kind of had kids later in life
and so I had a whole life
and it was established before my boy came along
and then it my life was totally different
you know
literally 30 minutes after we walked in the hospital
pretty much yeah
and so let's
talk to me a little bit more about what
that transition and what's
what's the difficulty and what's important about
and how should we think about that
yeah I think the difficulty for a lot of men
is the idea that they're gonna lose their autonomy
and their individuality they're gonna be like
something's gonna be a problem
that all of a sudden now
they're not gonna be able to be themselves
they're not gonna be able to have fun
they're not gonna be you know
go out with the boys yeah
right and I remember I had a client a couple years ago
like this was one of the reasons why I realized
this book is so important
because of this client and he said like Ellie
I'm gonna lose all the the things that I
love to do uh huh it's gonna go away
I can't do it anymore and I said this line and yes
it's there's it's deeper than that
and there's like a classic therapy line
but I was like you're not losing yourself
you're adding a layer like
it's not deleting
the fact that you wanna go snowboarding
on the weekends it's not taking
away the fact that you wanna go to the gym
or read a book or go play sports
or hang out with your friends
or have time with your wife yeah
it's an added layer
that now the priorities are shifting
and that's extremely uncomfortable for everyone
so it's okay so
maybe I can't go seven times a year to go skiing
or snowboarding I go twice yeah
and those two times are gonna be awesome
and iconic'cause I'm doing it
at least I'm doing it
it might be that it transitions to
now you do it with your kids
and you're teaching them
you still get to go it's just now shifting again
a different layer on top of it
it's you with your kids yeah
and there's this
this concept in relationship we're called um
interdependence
which is you
your partner and the connection of the two yeah
you're not losing the individuality
just because you get married right
one plus you have to find ways to prioritize it
and to make it a reality and that's a conversation of
hey you know Tuesday nights
I still wanna have poker night with the boys great
I wanna go watch Bachelor
Bachelor red upstairs right
you both are doing your own things
and at the end of the night
who you ending up with your partner
it's not like you're just like leaving and being gone
it doesn't mean you can't go hang out with your family
it doesn't mean you can't do things that you value
it's how you then mix it into the priority shifting
it's still top 10
it just not top one anymore
you are not top No. 1
which is extremely uncomfortable people to admit that
that's the that's the strain
it's like oh wait
it's not just me it's not just my wife
now there's a little child
that is a blob that I have to worry about and focus on
but what about me and that you feel pushed out
your priorities and values feel pushed out
so it's just like okay
they're still top 10 they're still top five
I just have to figure out the rotation better
I have to I figure out
I have to adjust and pivot the rotation smarter now
so that I still get my needs met
but I'm not deleting me and the other things matter too
and that's the uncomfortable shift that happens
yeah and
and but the benefit you get for that cost
is that you now get to experience the world
a new
through and all the stuff that
you're passionate about and all the stuff that you love
if you love to go snowboarding seven times a year
and then you start bringing your son or daughter
you get to now experience that hobby through their eyes
completely fresh
it's like starting over from scratch again
and falling in love with the
the the activity all over again
it's yeah
I literally recently just had this experience
I love hockey hmm
I didn't say I can play hockey
I love watching hockey and I
I watch when the hockey season's on
hockey's on the TV uh
and for me my
my son and daughter going let's go Islanders
seeing the TV guess what
the Islanders are not on TV at that time
but they see hockey
and they associate it to daddy's favorite team
and cheering and that energy
and it brings me so much joy
and my son literally said to me goes daddy
can I sit and watch hockey with you
yeah and I'm like yeah
come on my lap let's snuggle
and I can and he's asking these questions
right and he wants to go to a game with me and he wants
yeah
that's exciting that's fun
I'm not losing loving hockey
I love reading books my daughter loves reading
so now I'm reading to her
now I'm not reading the books that I'm reading
because they're huge chapter books
and they're not appropriate right
but like you can share joys and happiness with
your kids
and if they don't like the same things that you do
you can still like your things
but now you get to see the happiness
and joy of the things that they love
and they like and that's what makes you happy
yeah and you can actually
start to enjoy the things that they like
you will start to enjoy them anyway
yeah because they are happy
I uh my
my son
he's only 6 and he's decided that he wants to play golf
which I love that yeah
I do too but I am a terrible
terrible terrible golfer
we all are I
it's in fact
I find that golf
it's just like an exercise in frustration
it is purely in fact I
I remember watching
I remember watching Tiger Woods have a bad round
one time and I watched
it was in person and after he got down
he stomped off the 18th hole
uh the green on the 18th hole
and went over the driving range
and he was just like hitting the pitching wedge over
and over and over again he was so frustrated
and he was talking to his caddy and all that stuff
he was clearly just absolutely
totally pissed off about how poorly he was playing
and every single one of these balls was landing
he was hitting his pitching wedge
and they were landing about 120 yards away
within three feet of the pin
and he was mad because it
wasn't two feet and I was like yeah
I know exactly how he feels
yeah except for me it's
you know I can't even hit the ball
the I can't even hit the ball and this guy's mad
I mean it's just never changes
you are never ever not frustrated when you play golf
except for that one hit every day
one every time you go out
you get that one hit and it's absolutely perfect
you feel like if I just practiced eight hours a day
I'd be able to do that every time
yeah it's a lie
yeah I get frustrated with golf also cause I'm like
I know I can hit a baseball that's moving
yeah I can hit a pickleball
I can do all these things that are moving targets right
but a ball sitting static
I cannot freaking hit the damn thing to save my life
I can't even hit it and if I do hit it
I don't hit it well yes
what the hell and it's so frustrating
so frustrating it is the worst
well my son is getting into it
and now I'm starting to get into it
yesterday we went to the golf store
we got him some clubs and he's all excited about going
and I'm starting to get fitted for clubs
and I'm starting to get passionate about this game
that I hate I love it
yeah but now
but now you hate it together
but now you hate it together yeah
yeah now we can just be frustrated together
yeah
so tell me how can listeners connect with you
and dive deeper into your work uh
or or
or your book from from I do to we do yeah
so the book is on pre order right now
anywhere you buy books it is available to buy
you can find it on my website
Ellie Weinstein lcsw.com there's a tab for the books
all the pre orders there is a
if you pre order and email me
you get a a kit of like a parenting kit that I send you
awesome some like
basic things
and worksheets to do with you and your partner
um so go there
uh you can follow along on Instagram
Ellie Weinstein underscore LCSW
and you can check out the Dude
Therapist podcast as well
and all the different things that and I'm doing
and if you want me to come out to your area
speak to anyone that's on the website as well
awesome well
the all of those links are in the show notes
and so so definitely take a look
pre order the book and and definitely email Ellie
he will yeah
I I love the kit
that's that's definitely a nice sweetener there
oh thanks for having me
now let's before the
the last thing I like to do when I
when I'm ready these conversations
I like to ask everybody the same question
so I'll put you on the spot
feel free to take as much time as you want
but what is one principle
that you would like every parent
or future parent listening to take away
so I have a motto that I live my life by
um
that my grandfather taught me
my mom taught me
something that is very integral to like
who I am as a person
is that if you never try
the answer is always no yeah
so read books
listen to podcasts ask friends advice
if you never try the answer will always be no
so that means send that email
sit down with your kids
talk to them if you just sit in that state of no
I'm not gonna do that or it's not worth it
or it won't work or it will never happen yeah
of course it won't right
but if you try something it could be a yes yeah
you might still get the no yeah
but it also could be a yes
so just keep trying cause yeah
I find I mean
certainly within my own life
I have so much suffering relating to stuff
I'm convincing myself not to do and
and and suffering about what could happen
if I do the thing I wanna do yeah
it's insane
the amount of suffering I have associated with that
most people and there's no yeah
yeah and there's no sense in it
I mean it
it it
it holds you back yeah
I get doesn't mean the answer will be yes
yeah
but then you can tell yourself that you did your part
right and you know what and
and you can live with that
if I think back on my life I
I I can't think of a single occasion
where I did the thing and regretted it
and I can think of lots and lots of occasions
where I chickened out yep
and I still regret it to this day
yep
I'm with you five of them come to mind right now
just as we're talking having this conversation
five of those things come to mind
yeah it's crazy
well Ellie
thank you so much for being here man
I uh
I love how you're helping dads redefine strength and
and lead with with presence um
especially that chapter dues to dads
is such an important guide for men
stepping into fatherhood the book
I'm so excited for it
I'm really grateful for the work that you're doing to
to help us all show up better for our families
really appreciate you coming on the podcast
thanks for having me
and thank you all for listening
I'm Shawn Dawson and this is
raising men you are a great parent
raising men is produced by Phil Hernandez
this episode was edited by Ralph Tolentino