[00:00:00] Everyone: happy/happiness [00:01:15] Phil: Whether it's Jira tickets or Slack notifications or emails, or worse like text message. From your boss. Pressure at work rarely stays contained within the job. It spills into family time and friendships and daily relationships. I ask 50 operators how they stay happy while they manage responsibility at work and at home. [00:01:37] And this three part series titled 50 Operators that Share the Systems That Keep them Happy explores three main layers that showed up the most frequently through the lived experience of operators who probably feel the same pressure you do today. Um, so we continue with today's episode is part two. We talk about connection. [00:01:54] Part one was last week we talked about, um, stability and the foundation for our [00:02:00] happiness system. [00:02:00] In This Episode --- [00:02:00] Phil: So today's all about like the relationships that recharge you, keep you standing when the work would otherwise kind of knock you sideways, if you will. Uh, we'll hear from 17 people today and we're gonna cover things like boundaries that protect family presence. [00:02:15] Daily connection at work that absorbs pressure and one continuous relationship system that, you know, kind of groups, both of those first two ones, uh, but all that and a bunch more stuff after. A quick word from two of our awesome partners. [00:02:29] ​ [00:04:24] Phil: Let's start with six people whose answers centered on defended time and work design that protects family connection. [00:04:30] Eric Holland: Limiting Slack and Prioritizing Family Time --- [00:04:30] Eric: One, I'm really starting to stop doing the things that don't give energy at work. [00:04:36] Phil: That's Eric Collin, a fractional PMM based in Pennsylvania, and the co-host of the Were Not Marketers podcast. He's also a dad and runs a retail apparel startup. [00:04:45] Eric: Um, trying to work on, you know, focusing my personal business around things that I enjoy with people I enjoy. And then, you know, y'all will catch me every, almost every day of every [00:05:00] weekend from last weekend till Christmas, doing awesome Christmas stuff with my son. [00:05:05] Nice. My 10 month old son, right? So like that right there is my key. And then one little tip. Delete Slack off your phone. Hmm. [00:05:13] Phil: Short and sweet, uh, is our first answer from, uh, Eric here. Such a good reminder though, like it takes serious willpower to delete slack from your phone once you have it on there, but it, it is a really strong boundary move. Um, he's kind of setting the tone really nicely for this episode. Our next has talks about the same important boundaries in the form of family routines. [00:05:33] Meg Gowell: Shared Family Routines --- [00:05:33] Meg: Yeah, I mean I think it's tough, especially in a remote setting, and I've been remote actually most of my career, but I think it's really hard to separate, obviously like work from your personal life [00:05:43] Phil: That's Meg Gal, head of marketing at Ellie, and the former director of Growth Marketing at Typeform and apcu. She's also a mom of three young kids. [00:05:51] Meg: and it's something that, you know, my husband who's also remote and I both struggle with some. So I think for me it has been really finding those specific moments with my [00:06:00] family that are more family time and setting that expectation pretty clearly when I can internally of this is when I'm working and this is when I'm not working, and also trying to be an example for everyone else, right? [00:06:09] Like. We are at Typeform. It's a very international team, so like I might think of something an hour from now and yet half of my team is already asleep and I'm gonna send the message anyway and they're probably gonna hate me for it. But like trying to set an expectation of like, we're all working at different times. [00:06:24] I don't expect you to work or answer Things like that are outside of your working times, and you should be prioritizing that time outside to do your own things. And so for us, you know. I try to prioritize, like family dinner, all of us sitting down for dinner together and like spending that time with my kids I think is like really valuable. [00:06:43] We have a game we play called Popsicle and Popsicle where each person says a positive thing from their day and a negative thing from their day. You can have multiple, don't worry. Um, and so that's been like a fun way to get kind of conversation going and, and also to show them and try to, you know, I think his parents were always trying [00:07:00] to like. [00:07:00] Teach our kids like what we think is important. And I think we show with our actions, right, more than we do with our voices. And so I think like prioritizing that time, not having phones at dinner and doing something like that is just a little way to be like, we separate work and we separate home and we, you know, invest in our time with you. [00:07:17] And so I think doing things like that is really valuable to keeping your like mental sanity and to stop thinking about work. Um, and then I think on the work side, it's also just understanding like what your end goal is. And so for me, I. Never really had like a super clear career path in a lot of ways, but I knew what I wanted my life to look like. [00:07:38] And so I think that focusing on that is really important of like, you know, I don't care as much about being, you know, of super high profile CMO for a big company as I do. Having the freedom to have dinner with my kids every night and like go on vacations with them and stuff like that. And so I think it's figuring out how to understand what you really care about from your life and what [00:08:00] kind of flexibility you want or don't want, or maybe the high profile thing is what you care about more. [00:08:04] And then making that the focus of like what you're looking for in a job rather than just like what looks good on your LinkedIn profiles. [00:08:12] Phil: I love the Popsicle and Popsicle ritual. Um, Meg has a really cool mentality when it comes to designing her day, so work ends on purpose and love how dinner stays sacred too. My family's really big on that also. [00:08:26] Um, our next day has talks about filtering reactive work, so time stays with family. [00:08:31] David Joosten: Filtering Reactive Work So Time Stays With Family --- [00:08:31] David: Yeah, well, uh, I'm probably not one to give advice. I try my best, uh, like anyone else trying to manage lots of things. [00:08:37] Phil: That's David Houston, co-founder and President, ag Growth Loop, and the co-author of First Party Data Activation. He's also a dad of three. [00:08:44] David: Um, I try to just be very intentional with my time and ask a lot of like, why. So, um, especially as an executive, um, some folks you're, you're, especially as a servant leader, sometimes you, you get into a very reactive [00:09:00] mode of operating where problems come inbound from all, you know, different directions, and you could literally fill your days. [00:09:08] Only responding to them without having sort of a North star you're working towards. Um, I found even with customer implementations early on, same thing was true. Establishing the North Star why we're doing this thing together, why we're spending the time working backwards from that was the best antidote to, uh, feature requests number of 312 because someone had thought of a possible edge case that might come up next year. [00:09:34] And it's like, oh, I understand that, but here's the North Star. How does that fit into the North Star? We all agreed on the North Star, like, let's make sure that we're true to that because the only way we go fast is by being very targeted in our efforts together. Um, so I think the same thing holds true with like the kind of time I get to spend outside of work, being out in nature, being with my kids, um, all of those things, like what does this activity [00:10:00] mean? [00:10:00] From his point of view. From her point of view, I got both a son and two daughters. Uh, and you know, what does it mean to me? What does it mean to my wife also to get the time if I'm taking them out for something, right? All of those, those things and being more intentional about 'em. [00:10:12] Phil: Love David's answer. The tech industry loves to celebrate the hustle and the fast responsiveness, but David reminds us that relationships hold up careers longer than any task list ever will. [00:10:24] And our next guest would totally agree with David. She talks about designing work to enable family travel time. [00:10:30] Aboli Gangreddiwar: Designing Work to Enable Family Travel --- [00:10:30] Aboli: I think for me it's um, like relationships and like connection, like [00:10:38] Phil: That's a bully, gun war senior director of Lifecycle and product marketing at credible. She's also a mom and enjoys jogging yoga and hiking. [00:10:46] Aboli: friends, family connections, right? All of that like holds a very important, like everything I do, like I go back to like why I am doing it before my family, spending more time with my, with them. And I think that's what like really keeps me [00:11:00] going is yeah, like why am I earning money? [00:11:02] It's so that, you know, I have a, a quality time, you know, like. Uh, good quality of life with, with my family being able, like I am, my parents are in India, so like, yeah, can I make more trips? Go back home. Right? Like, um, that's really, I think that that's what keeps me going. I, I do think like, like the yoga, the, all of that like actually helps, balances it a little bit, right? [00:11:26] Where I'm like, too stressed, I'll just go out for a slow jog. Like, I think that, I'm sure everyone knows how important like exercising and all of that is, and why it's important for your brain. Um, but yeah. [00:11:38] Phil: Work to live or live to work. A bully says, work to travel with family. [00:11:43] Work feeds income. Income funds, time with family, time with family restores, motivation and perspective. So it's just simple but powerful answer from a bully. Our next guest has a similar perspective on this. Um, he constantly reminds himself to separate his career drive from his [00:12:00] family identity. [00:12:01] Kevin White: Separating Career Drive From Family Identity --- [00:12:01] Kevin: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think a lot of it does go back to like self-reflecting me, like what part of my job do I actually like? [00:12:08] Phil: That's Kevin White, head of marketing at Scrunch AI and former head of GTM Strategy at Common Room. [00:12:13] He's also a dad and avid gardener and surfer. [00:12:16] Kevin: like if you're, if you're happy in your job, then like you're probably gonna be happier in life too. But I think that also helps you step back or reflect on like, oh, like I'm just selling software. [00:12:26] Like it's not that important. Like it's not gonna be the end of the world if it goes away. And so like, you know that having that kind of self realization. And, uh, reflection, you know, um, you know, it, it helps you, you know, spend more quality time with your wife or like, have fun in the garden or like, you know, if I could do whatever I wanted, selfishly it would be like surfing all day long and like, I'm hoping in, I could retire and do that with my wife and family. [00:12:50] So, um, you know, fingers crossed that something happens in the next, like, you know, couple years. So, 'cause at some point I'm gonna be like, I don't need to do software selling anymore. I want to just kind of relax [00:13:00] it. You know, the motor in my mind is probably just gonna go back to it at some point. But, uh, it, it's conceptually, it sounds nice to just be like, oh, I'm gonna travel the world and surf with my family. [00:13:08] That would be my, right now, that is where I feel like my happiest place would be. But who knows? I. [00:13:15] Phil: Such a cool answer from Kevin. Awesome dude. Uh, whatever you do for a living, whether you work for yourself or a company, you are a person first and a software seller. Second, you do have room left for gardens or waves or loved ones. Our last guest to have an answer is centered around boundaries that protect family presence. [00:13:32] Touches on so many different aspects. It was actually hard to categorize him, um, but he landed here because ultimately I loved how he talks about. Daily Family Rituals. [00:13:42] Joshua Kanter: Daily Family Rituals --- [00:13:42] Joshua: Staying happy? Uh, that's a, that's a good question. You know, actually there was an article just yesterday in the New York Times about happiness in American culture. And, [00:13:54] Phil: That's Joshua Cantor, co-founder and Chief Data and Analytics Officer at Convert ml. He's a former [00:14:00] three-time CMO, including CMO at PetSmart. [00:14:02] He's also a husband and a father of two. [00:14:04] Joshua: I won't ruin it for people who should go out and read it. Uh, basically the authors say that that happiness in American culture has become very superficial, relative to the, where the concept, the concept of happiness is hundreds of years old. [00:14:16] It's not millennia old. It's, um, it's younger than that. Um, but they basically say that American culture has, has come to this sort of like fairly superficial, relatively speaking, more superficial concept of happiness today than it ever was. For me, it's more about fulfillment, um, and, um, do living, you know, like a moral life, but also doing things that, that I find to be meaningful. [00:14:45] Uh, and to me that's about being a, a husband and a father. Um, I love, um, cooking and baking with my 4-year-old. Like, that's, there's like nothing better. Um, and my wife accuses me of trying to, you know, give her [00:15:00] diabetes and, you know. Or, you know, flaring up her gluten and sensitivity. But I just, you know, it's just something, it's the Jewish grandmother inside of me, I think, that just wants to feed people. [00:15:11] That's a, that's an expression of loved. Um, but I think, you know, spending time with, with loved ones, um, and doing something that's a shared experience. Um, my 4-year-old and I, this morning, um, after breakfast, but before school, we're doing a puzzle and man, you know. There's nothing better. It's not about the puzzle, it's not about the food. [00:15:35] It's not, it's about spending time with people you love and, um, helping them to grow. And while you're doing that, you know, doing a little bit of growing yourself, I have to say it's a lot more socially acceptable. The dad jokes are a lot more socially acceptable when you actually have kids. I, I, I think that that humor has been part of my life since I was a kid. [00:15:55] I get it from my dad, who gets it from his dad. Uh, but now that I have kids who are [00:16:00] like, oh, it's just like, oh yeah, of course he's a dad. Um, yeah, my wife and I, we just went, we did pickleball the first time, uh, earlier, uh, I guess last week. Super fun by the way, and not, it's basically, I don't know if you've done it, it's like tried a rack ball racket and a wiffle ball. [00:16:17] And then you go on a tennis court and then there's a game and it's, you know, but it's, it's, it's fun and it's not intimidating and you can do it if you're, you know, a teenager or you can do it if you're in your seventies. So, um, it's sort that's a, but you're, but you're right. I think, I think I can get lazy. [00:16:36] I don't mean that in a judgmental way. Uh, you can, you can get very, it's easy to fill yourself up with just your family and your kids. But there's a whole world out there and, um, so, you know, travel and, and see it and experience it and, and pick up some things. I'm, I'm doing, uh, tonight I've got a class at a, at a SU I'm in Arizona, so I'm going down to a SU I'm taking a class on, [00:17:00] um, on writing, uh, tonight my class. [00:17:04] So, you know, trying to branch out a little bit. Um, but, uh, the core of it. To your question is for me is family, uh, and um, but I think there's a whole world of possibilities out there for people who are paying attention. [00:17:21] Phil: Joshua probably has one of my favorite answers all year. Top three, I think. Uh, I love how he reframes happiness away from a personal feeling. It's way more of this like shared ordinary moments that compound over time, but he admits that like those need to be balanced with. Curiosity about the wider world. [00:17:39] Um, but yeah, such, such an awesome answer. Um, so, so far we've heard from six people. The main theme in all the answers was family presence, uh, and, and building boundaries to achieve and improve that presence. The next five guests talk about human connection and the people that keep you standing, but the focus kinda shifts away from home and, um, the answers kinda surface [00:18:00] more. [00:18:00] The relationships that carry you through the workday in the office or at home remotely. If, if that's your thing. [00:18:07] Gab Bujold: Daily Check-Ins With a Trusted Work Partner --- [00:18:07] Gab: I mean, um, a big inspiration of balancing the two has come from Zach because he kind of introduced me to, to some stoicism notion, but more importantly, like just gratitude, right? [00:18:18] Phil: That's Gab Bjo fractional, PMM based in Quebec City, Canada. He's Eric's co-host on the We Not Marketers Podcast, where they're also joined by Zach Roberts, who is featured in part one of this series. [00:18:30] Gab: It's so easy to either always looking for, like having fun, and I very much relate to what Eric said in terms of like, am I spending time on work that energize me? [00:18:41] I like to have the fun meters, and I apply it personally, not publicly to my clients. Like, oh. This one is a five, this one is a two. And trying to work towards, towards the, the most fun. But it's also that life is not always fun. That's okay. And I'm very grateful to, you know, that the work of the [00:19:00] podcast doesn't feel like work. [00:19:01] So to me it's just a way to take my minds off things. And I think one of the big, one of the best ways, the fact that we are very, very close, the two of us talk every day and we're very open also on how we're feeling. Either on my personal life, either on our fractional, uh, journey, either on, on the pod or whatever hap whatever happens. [00:19:23] Um, so to me it's, you know, knowing to have a strong support system around me, knowing that I can, you know, I'm, I'm very privileged into what I'm, I'm dealing with. Uh, the fact that I have like. Basically, uh, a lot of, um, hiking path, like two minutes away from my, from my house when I can just walk in the wood with the dog, like, this is my best way to take my minds off. [00:19:47] Things like listening to a podcast or just straight uh, silence with just nature is, uh, is a good way for me to just take my mind off things. [00:19:56] Phil: I is such a fan of Gabs Answer and, and their podcast. Also, check out Word [00:20:00] Out Marketers podcast if you work in and around, uh, product marketers. Um, but yeah, gratitude, honest, daily check-ins, even like a private fun meter or some of the tools he calls out in his system. But he grounds all of it in simple support systems like a trusted partner. [00:20:15] Walk in the woods. Um, yeah. Awesome answer. [00:20:18] ​ [00:22:21] Phil: Uh, our next guest stresses the importance of the relationship with your manager and how teams should treat workload stresses a shared problem. [00:22:30] Anna Leary: Treating Workload Stress as a Shared Problem --- [00:22:30] Anna Leary: Oh, this is a great one. I think, you know, all of those things that I have going on outside of work, [00:22:35] Phil: That's Anna Leary, director of Marketing Operations at Alma, a mental health app. She's also a mother of a 9-year-old, a sports mom, and a tennis fanatic. [00:22:44] Anna Leary: being a mom kind of helps with the balance between work and life. Um, but then also making sure that, um, I'm not burning myself out too much. So being able to recognize when I'm. Feeling, you know, [00:23:00] a little bit too much, um, proactively taking time off. [00:23:03] I'm really, I think that's one thing that consulting helps me mm-hmm. Figure out is like the balance of like taking time off. And I'm really good about taking time off now and prioritizing, you know, family time as well. So I think just recognizing when I'm starting to feel stressed, I also, you know, I'm not, I'm not shy to address it with my manager directly, so I think it's important to call it out and say. [00:23:27] Hey, I'm feeling the weight of everything. Um, you know, your team might be going through like drastic changes. You know, sometimes there are like team consolidations, there's new tech that you're absorbing or new tech that you're implementing and it can just build on after time. And so I think recognizing that and calling it out is important and also helps you build like that human relationship as well with your manager. [00:23:52] 'cause at the end of the day, we are all. Humans and it's important to recognize that we do need some time away from work 'cause we can't [00:24:00] burn us out in the end. [00:24:01] Phil: Love how Anna calls out. The self-awareness is a leadership skill. Not a lot of people understand that, but like when you notice stress, you should name it out loud with your manager and use that honesty to protect your own energy and your team's energy, but also strengthen your relationship with your boss and um, your coworkers. [00:24:20] Our next guest sticks to that relationship that carries you through the workday. She lights up when ideas bounce around a room, drawing happiness from life, problem solving with colleagues. [00:24:31] Angela Rueda: Shared Problem Solving Conversations --- [00:24:31] Angela: Wow, that's deep. Um, look, I will say at work, uh, there, I, I really pump myself up when I'm driving to work. Like, ah. [00:24:42] Phil: That's Angela Ruda, a VP of Marketing Creative Channels and Capabilities that USSA and the former Head of Business Marketing Technology at Meta. [00:24:51] She's also a mom of two toddlers and a home designer. [00:24:54] Angela: one of the things that give me happiness are just my solutioning [00:25:00] conversations with people. I get joy when I get on a call and I just build on someone's ideas. They build on mine and we laugh a little bit. [00:25:09] So there's the combination of solutioning of, you know, positive relationships that like really, really drives me at work. The second thing is I actually really, I, I do love what I do, so that brings me happiness for sure. Um, but I turn my computer off and I just go to my, my two little ones in the caves that I have at home and. [00:25:36] It also is like a motivation for me because I want my, my daughter and my son to feel like proud of me. And I, I think that combination of those things, like the reward, the intrinsic reward that I get from my job, the relationships that I have with people, and then when I turn that off, the, the kind of connection that I see with, hey, doing this work because it, you know, it also feeds my [00:26:00] family in some ways, but it also provides an example for. [00:26:04] Uh, the work ethic and the motivation that I want my children to have, that's what's important for me. [00:26:10] Phil: Angela's answer is awesome. It was hard deciding to put her in the family or a colleague category that we had earlier. It could have been either, but I really liked how she finds real joy in building ideas together with colleagues laughing along the way and letting that shared momentum carry her through the day. [00:26:26] Um, really cool sign of like a, a positive leader. Um, it's a pretty special thing, like not, not every team has that. I feel like despite all the benefits of working remotely, like this is one of the things where in-person really benefits. Um, it, it happens differently than like a virtual whiteboarding session, and our next guest agrees with that standpoint. [00:26:47] Like he uses in-person conversations to stay grounded. [00:26:50] Blair Bendel: Using In Person Conversations to Stay Grounded --- [00:26:50] Blair: Great question. Um, you know, that balance is, is really the key. Um, I have three young [00:27:00] kids, [00:27:00] Phil: That's Blair Bedel, senior Vice President of marketing at Foxwoods Resort Casino. He's also a father of three. [00:27:06] Blair: and this, uh, you know, someone I worked with years ago, he told, he's like, this, this industry can be hard, uh, hard for families. Um, because, you know, it's always open, always going, constantly evaluated. Um. So finding that balance is, is what makes me happy. [00:27:24] And I'm, I'm, I'm lucky to work with a, a team and a leader that, that that is a focus. Um, uh, because if I didn't have that balance, it would be a big challenge to, um, to be able to be a good, you know, father and, and husband. And, um, and the other part is I really enjoy working with people. Um, like I will walk into people's offices a lot and just sit down. [00:27:52] Um, I don't know if they like it or not, but I do. Um, because I feel like, um, I'm a big, I'm [00:28:00] a big, uh, internal, uh, communications effectiveness person. Like, um, I like to go talk to people or call them versus mass emails and stuff like that. So. Um, I, I just enjoy walking into people's offices, talking, asking questions. [00:28:16] Um, uh, and that's why I like kind of being here is I, I run into so many different people of different backgrounds, different departments, different jobs, different goals, and, and to hear all that and, and what's going on, it's kind of an informal, uh, data capture, but also, um. It just gives me perspective on, on what we're doing and that the fact that we have lots of people that worked on tips here, and that's based on how many people come in the door and, and you know, I, I take that all very, um, uh, I think that's all very important. [00:28:49] Um, but, um, also like the human side of this and, and that interaction is, is, um, and the balance of that is, is really what keeps me happy. [00:28:58] Phil: Awesome answer. Uh, [00:29:00] from Blair there, Blair takes us into the whole casino marketing industry. Uh, a really cool episode that's worth checking out. Um, but yeah, for him, like he, it's pretty simple. He stays energized by staying physically close to his team. He called out a bunch of other stuff in his answer, but it was one of the things that that stuck out that was a bit unique from, from his answer. [00:29:19] Um, our next guest works at Canva and has a really cool answer that's similar to Blair. Um, but he leans a lot on his teammates also. [00:29:28] Matthew Castino: Work Satisfaction Correlates Strongly With Team Relationships --- [00:29:28] Matthew: Yeah, that's a great question. I, I would say like, um, the thing that really gives me the most satisfaction from, from my work is just the people that I work with. [00:29:39] Phil: That's Matthew Guino marketing measurement science lead at Canva. He's also a father of two, a 5-year-old and a 2-year-old, and he's an avid gardener. [00:29:48] Matthew: I don't know if that's a practical advice to people because it's the sort of thing that's sort of outside your control maybe. But I, I, I can't tell you how fortunate I am to work with such, such really richly intelligent [00:30:00] people that are just. [00:30:02] Also so great to work with. And you know, when work gets hard or life gets hard, knowing that you have these sort of, um, these people, the support system around you and at work, um, and that you can rely on other people to sort of like pick things up or to, to, to rally with you when you need to turn stuff around quickly is super helpful. [00:30:25] And my, my practical advice is that, you know, good relationships at work. Probably pretty highly correlated with, uh, with work satisfaction. So invest time in relationships in your workplace, because I think that like, um, maybe that is that, that that is something that's in your, in your control, right? Is investing time in developing good relationships in your work. [00:30:44] Because I, I think ultimately, if, if you can, if you ever. A good belief that the, the people around you are well intentioned and want the same thing as you. Even if you just in times of disagreement. Those kinds of things carry you through, right? Denying that you're both trying to, you both [00:31:00] want the same thing and you want good things for each other. [00:31:02] Like that carries you through when you have differences of opinion or when things get hard. Um, outside of work, it's starts to sort of where you have a hard day, you have a hard week, or things are a bit stressful and you walk outside and the kids don't care. You know, you know, they don't know, they don't care. [00:31:19] And you know, they're just like, dad could go on the trampoline, like, sure, we can go on the trampoline. You know, like, I think like your 2-year-old doesn't care that like, uh, an experimentation model broke. Like they, they don't care, you know, shockingly, no. Um, and, uh, yeah, so it's good to sort of like step outta this office and then like, so I work, I work remotely and sort of step out, step out of this office and, you know, um, straight away there's someone that's demanding your attention on something, you know. [00:31:47] They've got a much more tangible set of problems for you that you can solve. Right? Like, you know, um, than, you know, what's our roadmap for the next three years, right. Um, but yeah, just, uh, being outside, [00:32:00] being with my kids, being with my wife, like all that stuff is just, uh, it's good to sort of step out and just sort of go like, they're just ads, you know, they're just ads, you know. [00:32:11] Phil: So much truth in that answer for Matthew, like listening back to it a couple of times, I honestly wish I had this perspective earlier in my career. Like I cared about coworkers of course, but they were just not secondary to the work, but they were like a perk of, of having a job. You know, for math though, work relationships are a core part of the job and um, I just think it's a different like mentality when you're going into the workplace. [00:32:35] But, um, definitely how I'd approach it today. Um, all right, so like six answers so far, that focus primarily on family presence, and then five answers that focus on work relationships. Uh, our final six guests center their answers on the people who keep them standing both at home and at work. So I didn't know how to categorize them. [00:32:55] No, I'm just kidding. But, um, they, they see relationships as like a continuous. [00:33:00] Relationship system, I guess, was like the, the central thread in those answers. Uh, for example, like our next guest runs a system scan every morning. She like checks, uh, how she feels across family, community, and her own company before deciding, uh, what to give her energy to that day. [00:33:16] I think it's a pretty cool answer. [00:33:17] Aditi Uppal: Connection as a Feedback Loop --- [00:33:17] Aditi: That is a difficult question, Phil, and I probably think a lot, um, about, about that. [00:33:24] Phil: That's a Aditi Upal Vice President of Digital Marketing and Demand generation at Teradata. She's also a mom and an avid reader. [00:33:31] Aditi: It's about do you feel happy and energized when you wake up, and for me, like I use that as my pressure test to, um. You know, assess, um, how what I'm doing is this something which, you know, is making me happy, um, making me, uh, more, uh, mindful of how [00:34:00] I, I add value, you know, to my family, uh, to the company that I work for, to my community, to my friends, um, and to myself. [00:34:10] Um. So for me, I think that, um, that mindfulness about these, these multiple spheres of life, um, and how I am I'm doing across this, um, you know, really boils down to when am I excited to do, like, get up every morning and get into the craziness, um, you know, the, the world, um, that we, we live in because I don't believe in work life happiness. [00:34:40] I, I just think that there needs to be a lot of, um, how do you say, integration of the different aspects of your life. So it's work, life, community, personal, family integration, um, that, uh, you know, you need to take into, into, into [00:35:00] account as you are thinking, am I happy? Am I. Enjoying what I do, uh, do I like running after my toddler. [00:35:10] Um, but yeah, that, that's what, that's what I guess makes me happy. Um, or, or I use to determine, uh, yeah, what do I do next? Yeah. [00:35:20] Phil: So for a dt, like happiness is something you track across every part of your life, not just at work. Um, for her, like relationships are a single, continuous system, and it's almost like she measures happiness by whether energy flows across all of these different things together. [00:35:36] It's a really cool concept. And our next guest refuses to segment relationships by context, though. Um, so kind of contrasting both answers here. Um, but like they both see connection as continuous. [00:35:48] Alison Albeck Lindland: One Social System Across Work and Life --- [00:35:48] Alison: I think, you know, I have been so lucky to first of all work with such incredible people and I am so thankful for that. [00:35:56] Phil: That's Alison Albe, Lindland, CMO at persons [00:36:00] and the former CMO at Movable Inc. She's also a mom of two in her family's CEO. She's also a big tennis player. [00:36:07] Alison: When people look at my tenure at Move Link, it's really about people. I always say software is people, by the way. It's made by people for people and you know, so you think you're just like working in. [00:36:17] You know, ones and zeros and stuff. It's actually very relationship, uh, oriented role. And so, no surprise, my answer is outside of work, I try and spend a lot of time with people and I find, you know, when I'm spending time with old friends from college or you know, whether it's other, uh, school parents who I really love, uh, or a lot of clients who've become very close friends over the years, that's where I get my energy and have a release. [00:36:45] And, um, but again. You know, having the privilege of really enjoying the people that I work with gives you energy like nothing else, and helps you also get through busy periods and, and unexpected surprises and, and all those, oops, I made, uh, [00:37:00] mistakes, you know? Uh, and that sort of really recharges you as well. [00:37:04] Phil: Such a cool answer from Allison. Loved her episode. Really awesome person. Um, you know, for her, like people are the real medium of work. Uh, energy moves between colleagues, longtime friends. Family. She kinda has all three of those in her answer. And you know, it doesn't really stop at the edge of a job. And our next guest also talks about this idea of people and energy flowing through all of them. [00:37:28] For him, contentment and family are the steady foundation that everything kind of returns to at the end of the day. [00:37:34] Rajeev Nair: Human Bonds Absorb Pressure Before Burnout --- [00:37:34] Rajeev: to, to start with the disclaimers. I, I don't want to make a claim that I've figured out everything in life and all of that, [00:37:40] Phil: That's Rajiv Nye, co-founder and Chief Product Officer at Life Site. He's also an avid reader and a father. [00:37:46] Rajeev: but I primarily, uh, seek contentment, right? So that's, um, that's I how I approach, uh, everything in life. Uh, so there's this very cool concept to call, uh, hedonic treadmill. I dunno if you're familiar with, with this. [00:37:59] No. So, [00:38:00] uh, so, uh, we all have, as per this concept, we all have a baseline level of happiness in us. Regardless of major life events, we would eventually regress back to that baseline level of happiness. So even if you make a million dollars tomorrow, you'll be very happy, but eventually your happiness will come down to your baseline level. [00:38:19] Even something very bad happens, uh, it'll come, come up to the baseline level eventually. Right. Uh, and, and we have been talked to about MMM models as MM model also has something as a baseline. Mm-hmm. Right? Which is even if you don't invest in any of your marketing, you still make your baseline. Right. So all of us have this. [00:38:36] Baseline level of happiness. Uh, so, so the thing is, how could we increase that baseline, right? Uh, so, so though I'm not a very religious person, I've, uh, read the bit, the eastern spiritual tradition, Hinduism and Buddhism and all of that, right? So one school of thought that is happiness is essentially a chemical reaction. [00:38:57] So some of your neurotransmitters like [00:39:00] oxytocin, serotonin, and all sirens, and you feel happiness. All these hormones are in your head today, right? In your neuron stress, like, can you just sit somewhere and make them fire and be happy without waiting for external stimuli? Right. So I think contentment is the key to that. [00:39:15] Um, uh, so yeah, I, I'm not figuring out everything else, but, but, uh, these are some of the interesting ideas that that. I have about happiness and one thing about having a daughter, uh, I, I, uh, so you also have a, a daughter by Yeah. A daughter. Yeah. Yeah. So perhaps for every men out there, that's an easy hack to increase your baseline happiness. [00:39:36] So if you have a daughter, your baseline happiness increases, right? So that's an easy hack. It's not a easy hack, but it's a hack, right? [00:39:43] Phil: So, no surprise that an experimentation expert talks about baseline happiness and the quiet lift you get from loving relationships. Um, but is a really cool answer from Rajiv. Like, instead of chasing short term spikes of happiness, he's focused on, you know, presence, relationships as a ways to [00:40:00] lift his own baseline happiness level. [00:40:02] Um, our next two guests work at the same company, a company called Growth Loop, and they kept describing the same thing. Culture shaped by people who lift each other. [00:40:12] Chris O’Neil: Filtering Work Through People and Problems That Matter --- [00:40:12] Chris O'Neil: Well, I, I try, I don't always succeed. I, I might just have to point that out right off the top, [00:40:16] Phil: That's Chris O'Neill. He's the CEO of Growth Loop. He's also the former president of Google Canada, CEO at Evernotes, and Chief Growth Officer at Zero. He's also a father, huge Toronto Maple Leaf fan and a big golfer, avid cyclist and hobbyist gardener. [00:40:32] Chris O'Neil: but, you know, it's all about people and problems. Uh, to me, like, uh, I'm very fortunate to work with incredible humans, uh, be surrounded by a wonderful, loving family both here and, and up in my homeland of Canada. [00:40:44] Um, that's really as simple as it is. Like, am I, am I working with people that I enjoy, uh, in a, my wrestling with problems that when solved will make a difference? Uh, is it a mission that matters in the world? And that's really the root of it in terms of my professional. Yeah. And I, I, I [00:41:00] experiment like at different times in my career, I've burnt out a lot. [00:41:02] Uh, so I've tried to figure out ways to, you know, be able to surge my capacity, uh, and realize that you're gonna be out of balance almost all the times. But, you know, whether, yeah, it's, it's getting out to tackle a hill on my bike with, uh, with some dear friends and have a beer afterwards, or, you know, I, I do, I golf, I usually golf three or four holes at a time. [00:41:21] Like it's just something to get outside. Um, but ultimately just, just really be reflective and intentional about paying, paying it forward, whether that's in the form of investing in upcoming entrepreneurs, typically Canadians actually almost always, uh, or, you know, really, you know, paying, paying it forward in terms of people that, uh, I, I, who's a career I wanna help shape, right? [00:41:42] That's what really is meaningful to me at this point, right? I've been really fortunate to have incredible, incredible leaders that's helped shape my career and give me, uh, chances when I did deserve them. And, uh, I'm trying to do the same for many people in my, in my professional and personal life too. [00:41:57] Phil: Such an awesome answer from Chris. Such a cool [00:42:00] guy, like totally calm, honest about imbalance. You know, burnout is a thing that happens, but he builds a system around people, meaningful problems and small resets that let him keep going throughout the day. Um, our next guest, like I said, works inside the same environment at Growth Loop and takes that idea in a different direction. [00:42:18] A little bit like focusing less on problem solving and more on how creativity keeps her energized day to day. [00:42:24] Rebecca Corliss: Creativity as a Shared Emotional Outlet --- [00:42:24] Rebecca: Yeah, well first, every gig I've selected in a career standpoint. I work with people who I love and who push me. [00:42:30] Phil: That's Rebecca Corless, VP of marketing at Growth Loop, and former HubSpot marketing leader. She's also a mom of two boys, a writer and a musician and singer. [00:42:39] Rebecca: You spend so much time at work, you need that, and so I'm really thrilled I have that at Growth Loop. I love the people. I work at Growth Loop. I love our vision at Growth Loop, so that keeps me very fulfilled. [00:42:49] I love my family. We all do. I love my family. I work hard for my family, for my boys, and so that's great. And I love being creative. I love [00:43:00] being creative, and it's fun being a creative that also is excited about this AI future. Sounds like it could contradict. I don't think it does. I prepared for this conversation using AI in this very collaborative, creative way. [00:43:10] It was awesome. It was great. And so being creative makes me happy. Whether it be being creative through my music or my singing, being creative and helping my boys think creatively. So that's, that's really key and that really gets me going. And it's important. [00:43:25] Phil: So choosing a workplace where creative energy stays alive instead of getting crushed by a pressure. I think that's the beauty of working in marketing, even technical roles, but it's not like that everywhere, for sure. Uh, Rebecca is intentional about it. You see it in her answer, like, she builds her life around energy. [00:43:44] She chooses the work and the people and the vision that, you know, protects that creativity as a fuel for her. Her and carries that creative confidence into how she shows up at home with with her family. I've had the pleasure of getting to know Rebecca over the past, uh, few months after her interview. [00:44:00] Uh, she's personally given me tremendous advice at, uh, at work, but also managing our household with our second kid joining the fold a couple months ago. [00:44:07] So shout out to Rebecca. Um, ~you're awesome. Uh, glad we're friends now. ~ [00:44:09] Since recording her episode, Rebecca actually just started a new role ~as VP of marketing~ at ~a company called~ Leap. Sum in AI powered HR platform. ~ Awesome move plays to her strength for someone who has a lot of love for people and employee experience.~ [00:44:16] And, uh, last but not least, our final guest talks about teaching like it's a living relationship that gets her energy. [00:44:24] Moni Oloyede: Teaching as a Living Relationship --- [00:44:24] Moni: Um, you know what I've actually, my long journey has been to find my passion, and that's what keeps me going. [00:44:33] Phil: That's Moni founder of Mo MarTech, she's also a helm chef, a dog bomb, and a long distance walker. [00:44:41] Moni: I really do have a passion around teaching, specifically teaching marketing. Marketing is a thing that I know I really, truly believe that everyone has like gifts on this earth, and you find your passion by sharing your gift. [00:44:56] Like I have a lot of knowledge around [00:45:00] marketing and not only been doing it for coming on 20 years, it's the only thing I've ever done in my professional career. I've never done anything else, have a master's degree in marketing. So I feel like my real purpose on this earth is to teach marketing to people, and that's what keeps me going. [00:45:17] I would do it for free, which tells me that it's my passion 'cause I would do it, uh, whether somebody was paying me to do it or not. Um, so that's what really keeps me going. And um, yeah, wherever I get an opportunity to kind of instill some wisdom about marketing. If someone listened to this and picked up a little big bit of nugget that helped them improve, then I've done my duty So. [00:45:41] Phil: We need more educators like Moni in this space. Shout out to, uh, what you do moni, uh, grateful for your time on the podcast. An awesome answer. Um, [00:45:50] Outro --- [00:45:50] Phil: alright folks, that was part two of our episodes. So many awesome stories in these answers. Like I think back of the friend who answers the phone, when your brain is stuck on a replay, the teammate who notices you're burning hot and quietly takes a meeting off your plate, the partner pulls you off the couch after. [00:46:07] Bad day and says like we're going for a walk. Or the kid who doesn't care about your deadlines and just wants you to jump on the trampoline with them. Or the mentor who sends a short message at the exact right time that says like, Hey, you're doing better than you think. These are all unique experiences, but you hear the same reality kind of echoing in these different voices. [00:46:27] Nobody stands alone out there for long. Like stability grows from people, not personal toughness and solo things. Like you hold your footing because someone else is standing nearby. Um, if part two leaves you with one useful action, let it be this. Think about the relationships that matter the most to you and treat them like they're actually part of your infrastructure. [00:46:48] Put a standing walk on the calendar. Protect dinner where phones stay face down. Start one real check-in with a coworker that goes beyond a task update or call the person who studies your nervous system instead of [00:47:00] refreshing your inbox or Twitter or Instagram when stress spikes. Work will always fill your calendar, but people will keep you upright. [00:47:08] In the next episode, the focus shifts to the final layer of the series, how operators shape careers that feel worth pursuing without letting work swallow the rest of their lives. We'll catch you next week. Thanks for listening.