WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:24.985 --> 00:00:26.425 Anke: Hello and welcome, Michael. 00:00:26.485 --> 00:00:28.775 I'm beyond delighted to have you here today. 00:00:30.015 --> 00:00:30.845 Michael: You're delighted. 00:00:30.875 --> 00:00:31.995 I'm totally excited. 00:00:31.995 --> 00:00:33.435 This is so fun. 00:00:33.705 --> 00:00:36.565 I love the work you're doing and the message that you're spreading. 00:00:37.715 --> 00:00:38.215 Anke: Fabulous. 00:00:38.215 --> 00:00:43.875 So before we dig into that really juicy topic that we have, um, give people 00:00:43.875 --> 00:00:45.835 like the two minute bird's eye overview. 00:00:46.365 --> 00:00:47.585 You know, where are you based? 00:00:48.055 --> 00:00:49.405 What's the day job? 00:00:49.405 --> 00:00:50.275 What's the business? 00:00:50.275 --> 00:00:51.415 How do you help people? 00:00:52.345 --> 00:00:53.325 Michael: Yeah, thank you. 00:00:53.385 --> 00:00:54.085 Great question. 00:00:54.535 --> 00:00:59.395 I live in Fort Collins, Colorado, just about an hour north of Denver. 00:00:59.825 --> 00:01:01.835 Um, beautiful location. 00:01:01.995 --> 00:01:05.005 I'm very attuned to nature, so it's a wonderful place for me 00:01:05.005 --> 00:01:07.015 to live and actually do my work. 00:01:07.565 --> 00:01:12.945 So, I'm a canine-partnered men's relationship coach, right? 00:01:13.025 --> 00:01:14.665 Like, what the heck is that? 00:01:15.135 --> 00:01:16.925 So, I help men. 00:01:17.325 --> 00:01:22.245 Create emotional confidence and emotional intelligence working with a relationship 00:01:22.245 --> 00:01:26.755 with their dog, right, and taking that into other relationships in their life. 00:01:27.225 --> 00:01:29.485 I act as a mentor and a guide. 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:34.720 To help facilitate this process, we already have all of these bits 00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:37.860 of wisdom inside of us, but we just don't know how to access them. 00:01:38.290 --> 00:01:41.980 So that's where I come in, and I create this other environment 00:01:42.250 --> 00:01:44.120 for this to be able to flourish. 00:01:44.500 --> 00:01:49.370 So, um, you know, I work with guys on Zoom, I work with guys locally. 00:01:49.370 --> 00:01:53.080 I love working one on one locally because we actually take our dogs out 00:01:53.080 --> 00:01:57.470 into nature, and we can accomplish amazing things once people... 00:01:57.960 --> 00:02:02.060 They get settled and, and feel safe and comfortable and relaxed in nature. 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:07.110 Um, so I, I'm totally humbled by, by what I do because people have helped 00:02:07.140 --> 00:02:09.460 me get here doing the same thing. 00:02:09.510 --> 00:02:12.050 So, um, yeah, it's just amazing. 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:15.350 There, there's so much out there and our animals give us so much. 00:02:15.350 --> 00:02:17.640 We just don't know how to tune into them. 00:02:18.300 --> 00:02:19.650 And really pick up on that. 00:02:19.660 --> 00:02:22.340 So, uh, yeah, I get to help people with that. 00:02:22.340 --> 00:02:22.340 Love it, 00:02:22.340 --> 00:02:22.620 Anke: love it. 00:02:22.860 --> 00:02:26.550 I mean, that's, that's like what that, just that last bit you said, this is why 00:02:27.370 --> 00:02:29.320 I wanted you on this show like so badly. 00:02:30.460 --> 00:02:33.980 Because I guess that's the whole message of this, you know, like dogs 00:02:33.990 --> 00:02:35.690 aren't just toys or tools like this. 00:02:35.700 --> 00:02:38.490 So, you know, they've got so much wisdom. 00:02:38.490 --> 00:02:40.260 There's so much to learn for us. 00:02:40.445 --> 00:02:43.415 Like it's not about teaching them to kind of, you know, sit 00:02:43.485 --> 00:02:44.685 and pull and this and that. 00:02:45.025 --> 00:02:47.055 So I think there's so much more depth to that. 00:02:47.415 --> 00:02:51.605 So I'd like to, the first thing that jumps to mind is, it's like, 00:02:52.715 --> 00:02:54.075 what if somebody doesn't have dogs? 00:02:54.755 --> 00:02:57.095 You know, do all your clients have dogs? 00:02:57.105 --> 00:03:02.425 Or, um, what if somebody doesn't have, like, will, can you... 00:03:03.415 --> 00:03:06.535 Transmit the same message with, with your dogs, for example. 00:03:08.025 --> 00:03:12.405 Michael: So I, I prefer that someone already has a dog so that they have 00:03:12.405 --> 00:03:14.565 that, that that bond established. 00:03:14.925 --> 00:03:16.455 And it's not as deep for every person. 00:03:16.455 --> 00:03:20.235 And that's okay, but that's a relationship, right? 00:03:20.535 --> 00:03:24.705 Whether you have a dog or a cat or a bird, there's actually a relationship there. 00:03:24.705 --> 00:03:27.345 We, we just don't perceive it that way for a lot of us. 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:32.590 Um, I prefer that, but I can bring my dog, um, obviously locally, 00:03:32.590 --> 00:03:36.350 it's an experiential thing, to, to someone who doesn't have a dog, 00:03:36.740 --> 00:03:41.910 and show them how, how her behavior affects his behavior and vice versa. 00:03:42.600 --> 00:03:44.970 And it's like, whoa, I had no idea. 00:03:45.660 --> 00:03:48.390 So yeah, I prefer they have their own animal because it's 00:03:48.390 --> 00:03:50.080 just, it really helps the work. 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:53.750 But, um, you know, animals are, they're just here, right? 00:03:53.750 --> 00:03:56.610 They're just present and they will show us who they are in that moment. 00:03:57.530 --> 00:03:59.350 Anke: And they often show us who we are, right? 00:04:02.180 --> 00:04:05.810 Michael: Yeah, they're constantly trying to mirror to us or reflect 00:04:05.830 --> 00:04:07.730 back to us how we are showing up. 00:04:08.090 --> 00:04:08.720 Yeah, there's 00:04:08.720 --> 00:04:11.490 Anke: even a book, there's a book by Kevin Behan, Your Dog is Your Mirror. 00:04:12.950 --> 00:04:13.590 Michael: Very interesting. 00:04:13.600 --> 00:04:17.310 Oh yeah, yeah, go straight to chapter, straight to chapter 20, right? 00:04:17.310 --> 00:04:20.620 That's what, to me, that's where the magic is for, for his book. 00:04:21.790 --> 00:04:22.180 Anke: Awesome. 00:04:22.470 --> 00:04:23.800 So how did you get... 00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:30.230 Like, can you share the story, like, you know, obviously, so you, you, you have a 00:04:30.230 --> 00:04:36.250 close relationship to, to dogs, to your dogs, you know, you out to work with men. 00:04:36.290 --> 00:04:40.090 So when did you, how did that idea come about to combine the two? 00:04:41.700 --> 00:04:46.900 Michael: So this started in, uh, 2017, um, you know, I've had dogs my whole life. 00:04:47.470 --> 00:04:50.015 And You know, many amazing animals. 00:04:50.065 --> 00:04:52.955 I didn't realize the depth of what they were giving me until 00:04:52.975 --> 00:04:56.925 after I had, let's say, an awakening after my brother's death. 00:04:57.935 --> 00:05:01.925 I grieved him so hard and it opened me up to how I was acting 00:05:01.935 --> 00:05:03.585 in the world, how I was showing up. 00:05:04.125 --> 00:05:05.755 And I thought, I didn't like that guy. 00:05:06.250 --> 00:05:07.550 I'm like, well, I need to change this. 00:05:07.590 --> 00:05:13.730 And again, at that time, I had an amazing dog who helped me soften a little bit and 00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:15.560 open up to all these other possibilities. 00:05:16.110 --> 00:05:18.500 And then I, I started putting it all together. 00:05:18.520 --> 00:05:24.040 Like, oh my gosh, when I was 11, my dog helped keep me alive, basically. 00:05:24.250 --> 00:05:26.930 Um, when at this age, this dog helped me with this, this age. 00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:31.040 So there's all these huge lessons that I didn't put together. 00:05:31.510 --> 00:05:36.470 And I'm like, Other people need to know this, that there's help out there and 00:05:36.470 --> 00:05:38.350 we don't see that we're being offered. 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:39.910 Anke: Yeah. 00:05:40.130 --> 00:05:43.390 So how did you get your first client with that? 00:05:43.390 --> 00:05:45.260 So what was the transformation there? 00:05:45.260 --> 00:05:48.050 Like, when was the first time, like, when you tried this, like that, you 00:05:48.050 --> 00:05:51.010 know, obviously in your own experience, it's a very strong experience and 00:05:51.010 --> 00:05:53.290 you can really see through it, right? 00:05:53.290 --> 00:05:56.520 So, so how did you get that first client? 00:05:56.530 --> 00:05:57.900 You said, well, let's go there. 00:05:57.900 --> 00:05:59.950 Let's, let's look in this 00:05:59.950 --> 00:06:00.460 Michael: direction. 00:06:00.955 --> 00:06:02.605 Yeah, that's a great story. 00:06:02.605 --> 00:06:04.895 I gave a presentation on this yesterday to a group. 00:06:05.435 --> 00:06:09.095 Um, so, this man contacted me because... 00:06:09.905 --> 00:06:12.665 His perception of what I did was that I was a dog trainer. 00:06:13.815 --> 00:06:16.595 And I said, well, I'm not really a dog trainer, but I'm happy to meet 00:06:16.615 --> 00:06:18.105 and help you sort, sort this out. 00:06:18.105 --> 00:06:21.085 Cause his dog was, was escalating and doing all these crazy things. 00:06:21.995 --> 00:06:28.935 And we, we determined that he was acting out and his dog was responding and trying 00:06:28.935 --> 00:06:30.415 to get him to notice what was going on. 00:06:30.850 --> 00:06:32.300 His marriage was in turmoil. 00:06:32.300 --> 00:06:35.140 His, his business that he ran with his wife was in trouble. 00:06:35.140 --> 00:06:38.940 And, and then the dog was, was going crazy trying to, trying to say, 00:06:38.940 --> 00:06:40.280 Hey, there's something wrong here. 00:06:40.810 --> 00:06:45.330 And he, he got, he, he got it so quickly and was able to shift that perspective. 00:06:45.950 --> 00:06:48.770 And he said, There's nothing wrong with my dog. 00:06:49.440 --> 00:06:50.700 And I said, no, there's nothing wrong with her. 00:06:50.750 --> 00:06:54.680 And he just broke down crying, you know, because he had this realization that, 00:06:54.870 --> 00:06:59.580 that he and his wife needed to, to get into their issues, um, individually, as 00:06:59.580 --> 00:07:01.470 well as a couple and work this stuff out. 00:07:02.550 --> 00:07:04.210 Anke: Yeah, that's, that's powerful. 00:07:04.210 --> 00:07:09.930 And it really kind of shows how, how tuned in they are to, you know, 00:07:09.930 --> 00:07:12.440 to, to what we, so what's the. 00:07:13.065 --> 00:07:19.875 typical insight that people have that they might not have expected. 00:07:19.905 --> 00:07:22.425 Because, you know, when you kind of work with somebody, there's always a certain 00:07:22.425 --> 00:07:24.835 outcome that you kind of expect to have. 00:07:24.885 --> 00:07:29.245 And I would imagine in your work, I would imagine there'd be a lot 00:07:29.245 --> 00:07:32.945 of those that they, that you see them get all the time, that they 00:07:32.945 --> 00:07:34.415 don't expect when they come to you. 00:07:36.935 --> 00:07:42.495 Michael: It's when we're able to let go of our intelligence to see the 00:07:42.495 --> 00:07:44.305 awareness that's available, right? 00:07:44.535 --> 00:07:47.425 The dog is constantly, like I said, trying to communicate with 00:07:47.425 --> 00:07:51.655 us in their way so that we see that we, we can do something else. 00:07:51.905 --> 00:07:53.475 It's, they're not just a comfort measure. 00:07:54.090 --> 00:07:56.890 Um, and I'm not diminishing that at all because they bring a lot of 00:07:56.910 --> 00:07:58.870 pleasure and relaxation to people. 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:03.840 There's more when you're able to, when you, when you create that curiosity. 00:08:04.050 --> 00:08:05.940 My dog, is my dog doing that? 00:08:06.860 --> 00:08:08.350 Yes, your dog is doing that. 00:08:08.630 --> 00:08:10.920 So it's this aha moment where they go. 00:08:11.205 --> 00:08:12.845 Oh my gosh. 00:08:13.205 --> 00:08:16.085 So when this happened, and I acted like this, and my dog did 00:08:16.085 --> 00:08:17.565 this, that's all tied together. 00:08:20.835 --> 00:08:25.835 Anke: And how do people take that awareness in their 00:08:25.835 --> 00:08:27.325 human to human relationships? 00:08:27.325 --> 00:08:30.975 Like what, what are typical shifts that they experience? 00:08:32.205 --> 00:08:33.655 Michael: It's slow, right? 00:08:33.675 --> 00:08:36.465 So we all want, we want to create massive change. 00:08:36.775 --> 00:08:38.265 Oh, I can do this other thing. 00:08:38.775 --> 00:08:40.695 But it has to be a practice. 00:08:41.295 --> 00:08:44.685 You know, in yoga, the term is take, take it off the mat, right? 00:08:45.095 --> 00:08:49.725 So how do you take what you've now learned and apply it in these other relationships? 00:08:50.315 --> 00:08:53.025 So, there may be people at work that you don't get along with. 00:08:53.055 --> 00:08:55.805 Well, you can't expect it to all of a sudden be, Yay! 00:08:55.955 --> 00:08:56.885 But we do that, right? 00:08:57.105 --> 00:08:58.595 Oh, now I have these skills! 00:08:58.665 --> 00:09:02.865 So, it takes time and a constant practice. 00:09:02.885 --> 00:09:07.185 It's applying this and realizing what works for you and understanding 00:09:07.185 --> 00:09:08.665 that it may not work for that person. 00:09:09.125 --> 00:09:13.925 So, it's creating this change, not to create other change. 00:09:14.645 --> 00:09:15.495 Yeah, I think 00:09:16.375 --> 00:09:18.805 Anke: that awareness is really, really powerful. 00:09:20.390 --> 00:09:24.400 And to show, I think, I mean, we had obviously, we had a previous conversation 00:09:24.410 --> 00:09:31.450 that really stuck with me was that idea that what people often do naturally 00:09:31.820 --> 00:09:36.590 in relationship to their dog, like that gentleness, that kindness, that 00:09:36.770 --> 00:09:42.130 unconditional love that feels so kind of obvious and natural with your dog. 00:09:43.105 --> 00:09:47.755 You know, it doesn't always feel as easy to take it into, you know, into 00:09:47.755 --> 00:09:49.185 human to human connections, right? 00:09:49.945 --> 00:09:53.325 Michael: Yeah, well, there's, there's all these other expectations that the 00:09:53.345 --> 00:09:57.975 other person may have of what this relationship needs to be for them, but 00:09:58.075 --> 00:10:00.145 we don't actually communicate about it. 00:10:00.205 --> 00:10:03.805 We just, we show up expecting one thing, they show up expecting something, 00:10:04.215 --> 00:10:05.595 but we don't get that with the dog. 00:10:05.605 --> 00:10:05.995 There's... 00:10:06.255 --> 00:10:09.725 They don't have all these rules that they apply to the relationship. 00:10:10.245 --> 00:10:12.395 Um, and we, we feel that. 00:10:12.395 --> 00:10:15.815 We may not recognize that, you know, mentally, but we feel 00:10:15.815 --> 00:10:17.935 it and we respond in kind. 00:10:17.965 --> 00:10:22.115 We can be open and vulnerable and soft and gentle and cute and cuddly. 00:10:22.630 --> 00:10:25.420 But we can't be cute and cuddly with, with, you know, the guy 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:30.420 in engineering, or, you know, he sure as hell doesn't want that. 00:10:30.850 --> 00:10:32.420 So it's fascinating. 00:10:32.770 --> 00:10:34.720 Why does that work here, but not over here? 00:10:35.470 --> 00:10:35.840 Anke: Right. 00:10:36.430 --> 00:10:37.240 It's fascinating. 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:40.950 You know, when you take thought and expectations and judgment out, like 00:10:40.970 --> 00:10:42.570 that's like in the real world, right? 00:10:42.790 --> 00:10:47.120 You know, it's like when you take thought, expectation, judgment, worry, 00:10:47.150 --> 00:10:49.240 guilt, when you take all that out. 00:10:50.460 --> 00:10:52.100 Yeah, you know, what are you left with? 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:58.230 Michael: Yeah, compassion, love, you know, nurturing. 00:10:58.270 --> 00:11:01.100 I mean, all these things that we all, we all crave so deeply, 00:11:01.100 --> 00:11:02.820 but don't know how to access. 00:11:03.060 --> 00:11:07.330 And we sure as heck don't know how to ask for it, but that dog's just given it. 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:10.520 Anke: Love that, love that. 00:11:11.040 --> 00:11:15.890 So where can people go and find out more about that, you know, because you've 00:11:15.890 --> 00:11:20.730 got a book and it's not just for men, so you know, where can people get in touch 00:11:20.730 --> 00:11:22.430 with you, find out more about your work? 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:26.120 Michael: Yeah, go to www. 00:11:26.410 --> 00:11:27.470 dogsandmen. 00:11:29.230 --> 00:11:31.730 com All one word, no spaces. 00:11:32.370 --> 00:11:38.730 Um, and what's on there is tons of podcasts and radio shows, um, resources. 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:43.110 And my books are on there for, in PDF download for free. 00:11:43.210 --> 00:11:46.940 So, um, yeah, download it, look at it. 00:11:47.455 --> 00:11:49.605 And then email me and tell me how crazy I am. 00:11:49.605 --> 00:11:50.245 That'd be great. 00:11:50.655 --> 00:11:53.375 Um, there's a link to my, there's a link to email me, but it's 00:11:53.375 --> 00:11:54.975 also michael at dogsandmen. 00:11:54.975 --> 00:11:55.345 com. 00:11:55.745 --> 00:11:59.335 And I, I just want to spark curiosity in people. 00:11:59.345 --> 00:12:00.375 Some people are going to get it. 00:12:00.385 --> 00:12:01.775 Some people aren't, and that's okay. 00:12:01.975 --> 00:12:03.045 This isn't for everybody. 00:12:04.145 --> 00:12:07.585 Anke: But I think there's so much to see, you know, and I think 00:12:07.585 --> 00:12:12.655 it makes life so much simpler and, and kinder and more loving. 00:12:12.655 --> 00:12:15.515 And I think there's can't ever be too much of that in the world. 00:12:15.515 --> 00:12:17.205 So love what you do. 00:12:17.305 --> 00:12:18.055 Absolutely love it. 00:12:18.820 --> 00:12:19.130 Michael: Thank you. 00:12:19.180 --> 00:12:19.850 And I agree. 00:12:19.880 --> 00:12:24.400 We, we, if we could all just do a little better, a little more love, a 00:12:24.400 --> 00:12:27.710 little more compassion, and to ourselves as well, not just to the world. 00:12:28.230 --> 00:12:30.990 Here's where the change has to start, right? 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:33.750 When Gandhi said, be the change you want to see in the world. 00:12:34.700 --> 00:12:36.650 So, and I think that's really true. 00:12:37.205 --> 00:12:37.885 I think it is 00:12:37.885 --> 00:12:37.975 Anke: true. 00:12:38.125 --> 00:12:40.385 We just all need to be a little bit more dog, right? 00:12:41.655 --> 00:12:43.175 Michael: Yes, be more dog. 00:12:45.215 --> 00:12:45.655 Anke: Awesome. 00:12:45.805 --> 00:12:46.945 Well, thank you so much. 00:12:46.985 --> 00:12:50.535 And I hope to have you back at some point because we want to see where 00:12:50.535 --> 00:12:52.095 you're going and what's evolving. 00:12:52.095 --> 00:12:54.515 So I would love to have you back at some point. 00:12:54.755 --> 00:12:55.125 Awesome. 00:12:55.325 --> 00:12:56.235 Michael: I would love to be back. 00:12:56.235 --> 00:12:57.235 Thank you for having me. 00:12:57.940 --> 00:12:59.170 Thanks so much for listening. 00:12:59.690 --> 00:13:03.990 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:13:04.090 --> 00:13:05.870 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:13:06.660 --> 00:13:10.150 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:13:10.580 --> 00:13:16.150 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:13:16.250 --> 00:13:18.620 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:13:18.620 --> 00:13:22.350 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:13:22.770 --> 00:13:23.910 I'd love an introduction. 00:13:24.390 --> 00:13:26.220 Email me at Anke. 00:13:26.490 --> 00:13:30.725 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.