1 00:00:01,260 --> 00:00:04,292 Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious. 2 00:00:04,292 --> 00:00:06,073 I am Hamish, your host. 3 00:00:06,173 --> 00:00:10,496 This podcast is for anyone going through awakenings, trying to make sense of life. 4 00:00:10,496 --> 00:00:19,833 Whether dark nights are the soul, needing to make life -changing decisions, struggling with addiction or critical illness, or simply realizing that their life as they know it is 5 00:00:19,833 --> 00:00:22,024 not aligned to values and purpose. 6 00:00:22,024 --> 00:00:23,025 You are not alone. 7 00:00:23,025 --> 00:00:25,246 You can get through this, promise you. 8 00:00:25,246 --> 00:00:27,868 Life is far more beautiful on the other side. 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:30,160 Right. 10 00:00:31,101 --> 00:00:31,852 Hi everybody. 11 00:00:31,852 --> 00:00:33,563 Today I'm chatting with Keely. 12 00:00:33,563 --> 00:00:36,444 She's in a wonderful networking community that I'm in as well. 13 00:00:36,444 --> 00:00:41,447 And we've met through that and we've had some great conversations about business and work. 14 00:00:41,447 --> 00:00:47,091 And over time she shared some of her story and she's come along today to share her story with us. 15 00:00:47,091 --> 00:00:49,083 So Keely, thanks so much for turning up today. 16 00:00:49,083 --> 00:00:49,953 It's my pleasure. 17 00:00:49,953 --> 00:00:57,857 And as you say, we've had many conversations and I know that we've got lots of synergies and similar values and beliefs. 18 00:00:57,857 --> 00:01:04,931 So it's really nice to be chatting with someone that's on that same pathway, I suppose, of change. 19 00:01:06,406 --> 00:01:10,066 well thank you for being here, Keely, and can you please tell me a little bit about your story? 20 00:01:10,066 --> 00:01:12,206 Well, it's quite a journey, actually. 21 00:01:12,206 --> 00:01:25,206 But I suppose the starting point, really, when things rapidly changed is that in 2020, I was part of let's just say, strategic reorganization within business. 22 00:01:26,126 --> 00:01:37,808 ultimately, the journey up until that point, probably the two years beforehand, was quite challenging, quite toxic, know, lack of clarity. 23 00:01:37,808 --> 00:01:45,240 And of course it then also had an impact on myself because I was focusing on my team. 24 00:01:46,020 --> 00:01:49,882 Because, you know, as a leader you have responsibilities to be looking after them. 25 00:01:49,882 --> 00:02:03,025 But the biggest problem I had is that I wasn't also focusing on myself, which ultimately led to me having a massive anxiety attack in Schiphol Airport of all places, which is not 26 00:02:03,025 --> 00:02:03,677 ideal. 27 00:02:03,677 --> 00:02:09,028 having just had an interview in my office that is in Schiphol. 28 00:02:10,189 --> 00:02:17,291 I think it's just like everything just sort of built up to sort of like enough is enough really, you're not listening to me. 29 00:02:17,291 --> 00:02:23,392 And I just broke down, just started sobbing and sobbing and sobbing and sobbing on the escalator and just sort of collapsed. 30 00:02:23,392 --> 00:02:27,553 And then ultimately got led off in a wheelchair. 31 00:02:27,773 --> 00:02:33,875 And then, you know, really that was the first 32 00:02:34,139 --> 00:02:38,500 let's say kick to turn around and say something needs to change. 33 00:02:38,500 --> 00:02:46,042 But as you know, as when we're stalwart characters, we keep on going on and we think that we are superhuman. 34 00:02:46,543 --> 00:02:53,905 And then I finally got the phone call to say that I wasn't successful in my interview and I was put at risk for redundancy. 35 00:02:53,905 --> 00:02:59,246 having just done the same in my team, I then had to do this, you know, went through the same myself. 36 00:02:59,246 --> 00:03:03,227 And that was when mentally and physically I ultimately shut down. 37 00:03:03,659 --> 00:03:10,322 and yeah, went on my own healing journey, so to speak, from that point. 38 00:03:10,322 --> 00:03:23,968 Because yeah, not an ideal time because of COVID, so I wasn't able to speak to a therapist, or wasn't able to see a therapist, as say, so I had to find my own way. 39 00:03:23,968 --> 00:03:25,099 That's tough, it? 40 00:03:25,099 --> 00:03:32,419 mean, being asked to sort out a team and strategically thin it down and then bye bye at the end of it. 41 00:03:32,419 --> 00:03:37,014 Yeah, I mean, what were you doing running that team? 42 00:03:37,014 --> 00:03:41,028 mean, explain a bit more of that backstory because I know there was more to that. 43 00:03:41,028 --> 00:03:48,525 I know that you were successful and it was something that you were really, really, really proud of doing. 44 00:03:49,184 --> 00:04:00,445 Yeah, I mean, I'd actually worked for the company for over 23 years and I my last role, excuse me, I was a program and delivery director for Group Acumen. 45 00:04:00,445 --> 00:04:04,025 was a FTSE 100, big corporate organization. 46 00:04:04,025 --> 00:04:06,505 So I've been extremely successful. 47 00:04:06,505 --> 00:04:17,857 I've grown an amazing team, which I can only describe we were like a family, very, very supportive, very collaborative, know, lots of striving and in fact, 48 00:04:18,105 --> 00:04:21,547 We helped design the future organization. 49 00:04:21,547 --> 00:04:36,157 It was like an elevated department from where we were at to effectively create an enterprise which was for program delivery, which was associated to the corporate plan 50 00:04:36,157 --> 00:04:47,795 because, ultimately one of the biggest things that I found was that, you know, quite often you had all of these different departments delivering different programs and projects. 51 00:04:47,861 --> 00:04:50,122 and they weren't necessarily aligned. 52 00:04:50,122 --> 00:04:58,976 means that there was overlap in what we doing and until you actually have it so it's connected up the corporate plan, it means that people are going in different directions. 53 00:04:58,976 --> 00:05:05,839 There's different, you know, priorities and that then led to, you know, sort of more challenges. 54 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:12,081 So the reason why we designed this and proposed it to them was one, to ensure that we was all aligned. 55 00:05:12,402 --> 00:05:15,927 It also meant that we were saving significant amounts 56 00:05:15,927 --> 00:05:25,410 money within the business because when you're streamlining things it means that you're using resources correctly and indeed bringing in consultants at the right time rather than 57 00:05:25,410 --> 00:05:32,743 them being brought in and then staying there for ever more when in reality what you can do is actually use your internals. 58 00:05:32,743 --> 00:05:40,003 So that's what we designed and then say unfortunately instead of me getting the role. 59 00:05:40,003 --> 00:05:48,099 To run the department, the chap that I would have worked for ended up recruiting externally someone that he knew. 60 00:05:48,099 --> 00:05:59,280 And then the knock -on effect was instead of it being able to elevate my team as well and utilize them in the right way, they ended up recruiting from different departments, so 61 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:01,082 different priorities and everything like that. 62 00:06:01,082 --> 00:06:07,449 So it had a significant impact on me because obviously we've worked so hard. 63 00:06:07,449 --> 00:06:15,004 to develop something that was going to be extremely successful for the whole of the business, know, creating value. 64 00:06:15,025 --> 00:06:19,118 And yeah, it didn't quite work out how we anticipated. 65 00:06:19,118 --> 00:06:21,970 And it really took its toll on me. 66 00:06:21,970 --> 00:06:28,214 And I think the greatest gift I got at that time was one of my junior project managers. 67 00:06:29,035 --> 00:06:33,529 I had to actually tell her before she went away on her honeymoon. 68 00:06:34,009 --> 00:06:42,915 and get her to sign an NDA and tell her that she was ultimately going to be put at risk while she was away on her honeymoon. 69 00:06:43,816 --> 00:06:46,317 And it devastated me. 70 00:06:46,317 --> 00:06:47,578 I was in tears. 71 00:06:47,578 --> 00:06:58,066 And I know some people think why the lady shouldn't do that, but when you've created a relationship with an individual within your team, which you really believe in, I mean, it 72 00:06:58,066 --> 00:06:58,906 broke my heart. 73 00:06:58,906 --> 00:07:01,248 And she actually said to me, do you know what, you leave? 74 00:07:01,248 --> 00:07:03,599 She said, you're not responsible for this. 75 00:07:03,953 --> 00:07:06,493 you know, the one that you've got to be responsible for is yourself. 76 00:07:06,493 --> 00:07:07,753 You need to take care of yourself. 77 00:07:07,753 --> 00:07:10,113 You can't look after us and we're all adults. 78 00:07:10,113 --> 00:07:21,053 And I mean, that was someone, you know, 20 odd years old, you know, and the fact that I had to tell her, you know, before she went on a honeymoon was just, I mean, just awful, 79 00:07:21,053 --> 00:07:21,813 absolutely awful. 80 00:07:21,813 --> 00:07:24,533 And she weren't allowed to tell the rest of the team either. 81 00:07:24,993 --> 00:07:27,353 So not good. 82 00:07:27,653 --> 00:07:33,153 So yeah, so I've had a very successful career. 83 00:07:33,515 --> 00:07:35,767 And, you know, I was good at it. 84 00:07:35,767 --> 00:07:45,474 But I think when I actually did finally crash and burn, as I call it, the body turned around and said, you know, you've got to start listening. 85 00:07:45,475 --> 00:07:56,303 I think it made me realize that I've fallen into so many traps that, ex -exes and leaders quite often fall into, particularly as women. 86 00:07:56,444 --> 00:08:02,219 And it really made me reevaluate some of the mistakes I've made along the way. 87 00:08:02,219 --> 00:08:04,621 Thank you for that. 88 00:08:04,801 --> 00:08:05,702 It's tough, isn't it? 89 00:08:05,702 --> 00:08:12,107 You strive, you encourage your team, you nurture them, and then for that to happen. 90 00:08:12,909 --> 00:08:14,010 But it's always the case, isn't it? 91 00:08:14,010 --> 00:08:22,788 When you start to look back, you start to see those things that you missed, the pushing, the encouraging, the nurturing, the doing everything else for other people. 92 00:08:22,788 --> 00:08:26,921 And as you said, not really looking after yourself quite enough. 93 00:08:26,921 --> 00:08:27,393 And... 94 00:08:27,393 --> 00:08:35,003 We're resilient, we manage for long time, but as you said, you hit a wall and then you just drop. 95 00:08:35,004 --> 00:08:43,134 So what happened after they wheeled you off, I gotta say in a wheelbarrow, they wheeled you off in a wheelchair. 96 00:08:44,535 --> 00:08:54,169 I mean, the interesting thing is, that, I mean, obviously, they were worried that there was more to it, you know, like perhaps I've had a heart attack or something like that. 97 00:08:54,169 --> 00:09:02,522 So they obviously put me in first aid and monitor me within there for a period of time. 98 00:09:02,522 --> 00:09:05,524 And they also gave me some tablets to try to calm my nerves. 99 00:09:05,524 --> 00:09:13,807 And they actually did contact the HR department for me, the lady, because she was Dutch and could obviously translate 100 00:09:14,251 --> 00:09:19,255 what it was that I was saying and they were saying and you know put me in a space of ease. 101 00:09:19,456 --> 00:09:33,027 And I mean even then you know she said to her you know you can't keep doing this to yourself you've got to start focusing on you and you know you can't keep everybody else 102 00:09:33,027 --> 00:09:34,027 happy. 103 00:09:34,709 --> 00:09:42,607 And it's interesting you know when you hear my full story you know one of the things that became a reality 104 00:09:42,607 --> 00:09:52,900 for me, you know, I mean, obviously, like you, I know that when you go on this healing journey, the biggest thing when it was like COVID, obviously, we weren't able to spend 105 00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:54,510 time with other people. 106 00:09:54,531 --> 00:09:56,791 you know, I was able to go out and walk my dog. 107 00:09:56,791 --> 00:09:59,222 I went out walking my dog every single day. 108 00:09:59,222 --> 00:10:08,025 And whilst I was walking them, you know, at the beginning, there was like all this noise going on, you know, you're on repeat, on repeat, you're referring back to what went on 109 00:10:08,025 --> 00:10:09,575 over and over again. 110 00:10:09,729 --> 00:10:14,993 And initially you think it is, you know, the redundancy that's caused the burnout, but it's not. 111 00:10:14,993 --> 00:10:16,484 It's a catalyst. 112 00:10:16,484 --> 00:10:21,807 It's like the final now and the coughing that's saying enough is enough. 113 00:10:22,568 --> 00:10:31,974 And as well as doing sort of walking the dog and, you know, the hours of walking, I spent so many hours doing that and doing things like gardening. 114 00:10:31,974 --> 00:10:39,471 I started doing things like yoga and meditation and just slowing down, you know, just... 115 00:10:39,471 --> 00:10:43,644 spending some time on my own and being present. 116 00:10:43,644 --> 00:10:51,609 And when you are in those spaces, you do get more time to reflect on the past. 117 00:10:51,609 --> 00:10:56,171 You get more time to reflect on some of the decisions that you've made. 118 00:10:56,171 --> 00:11:05,267 You have more time to focus on, you know, what led to some of the decisions that you've made. 119 00:11:05,267 --> 00:11:14,740 And some of the things that other people have said, know, one of the things that I recognize is that I'm huge, you know, I'm not anymore, but you know, people -pleaser, 120 00:11:14,740 --> 00:11:26,743 always trying to keep everybody else happy, not rocking the boat, know, trying to ensure that everybody was in a happy space, you know, those kinds of things. 121 00:11:27,023 --> 00:11:33,779 And the other thing with that as well is that because of working in a male environment, 122 00:11:33,779 --> 00:11:41,714 I was always trying to prove myself, trying to be heard, wanting to stand out. 123 00:11:41,714 --> 00:11:51,099 So I doing things like was volunteering for everything, always trying to prove myself, I'll take on this, I'll take on that. 124 00:11:51,099 --> 00:11:52,470 You end up taking on the world. 125 00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:56,642 And the interesting thing is not only are doing that for you, you're doing it for your team. 126 00:11:56,642 --> 00:12:00,264 So you end up taking loads of stuff for them as well. 127 00:12:00,264 --> 00:12:01,905 So not only are you... 128 00:12:02,123 --> 00:12:11,223 burning yourself out, you're actually burning your team out whilst others are taking a back seat and not doing things themselves. 129 00:12:11,424 --> 00:12:22,087 And I think that's the important thing is that it makes you realise all of the things that you've done when you stop and slow down and take time out for yourself. 130 00:12:22,087 --> 00:12:23,555 Yeah, bit of reflection. 131 00:12:23,555 --> 00:12:32,307 Isn't it hindsight is a wonderful thing and we just have to learn to use it compassionately rather than why did I do that? 132 00:12:32,307 --> 00:12:34,798 Beat myself up for that, beat myself up for that. 133 00:12:34,798 --> 00:12:38,810 Realize it was just the part of that journey that we're going through. 134 00:12:38,810 --> 00:12:39,500 It is that. 135 00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:43,151 mean, I remember thinking my business partner was a bit like you. 136 00:12:43,151 --> 00:12:44,951 She would not stop. 137 00:12:44,951 --> 00:12:47,924 Perfect, perfect, perfect team member. 138 00:12:47,924 --> 00:12:51,024 work relentless, do everything on and on and on. 139 00:12:51,764 --> 00:12:55,874 And after our business, she went on and did her own thing and she had a stroke. 140 00:12:55,874 --> 00:12:57,864 She's only 45. 141 00:12:59,564 --> 00:13:01,464 Because that was her mentality as well. 142 00:13:01,464 --> 00:13:04,535 It was just give and work and give and work. 143 00:13:04,535 --> 00:13:12,965 And the irony is it's expected and sort of, not society, corporate life almost appreciates. 144 00:13:12,965 --> 00:13:13,775 Well, they do, don't they? 145 00:13:13,775 --> 00:13:15,395 Because it helps their bottom end. 146 00:13:15,395 --> 00:13:19,720 But ultimately, as you said, no one's a winner. 147 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,303 And the business compromises as well, doesn't it? 148 00:13:23,927 --> 00:13:31,327 Yeah, well it means that you're not performing at your highest, your team are not performing at their highest. 149 00:13:31,327 --> 00:13:42,687 I mean you think you are because you have this whole list of things that you've got, know, I mean we had like lots and lots of projects and I mean they were big, big projects, know, 150 00:13:42,687 --> 00:13:44,307 sort of multiple countries. 151 00:13:44,307 --> 00:13:52,189 I mean we were serving about 27 different countries at the time, so when you are doing a project they're, you know, they're not small ones. 152 00:13:52,189 --> 00:13:55,321 But then there's all the other strategy that comes with it. 153 00:13:55,321 --> 00:14:05,806 You know, when you're part of the corporate team, you know, at group level, there's loads of other projects that you end up doing as sports in different departments. 154 00:14:05,806 --> 00:14:07,667 But there's only so much you can do. 155 00:14:07,667 --> 00:14:13,300 But the problem is, is that it's the old phrases that you give an inch and they'll take a mile. 156 00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:17,953 And, you know, it just gets stretched and stretched and stretched. 157 00:14:17,953 --> 00:14:21,835 And yet you'll see others 158 00:14:22,205 --> 00:14:28,237 have been more respectful of their boundaries and said no or not actually volunteered. 159 00:14:28,358 --> 00:14:34,700 And they're doing like the normal, you know, days work, but without pushing the boundaries constantly. 160 00:14:34,901 --> 00:14:40,483 And, you know, quite often they get elevated, they get promoted, you know, they get more opportunity. 161 00:14:41,984 --> 00:14:49,127 And the reality is, is that, you know, you start resenting them because they're not doing everything. 162 00:14:49,415 --> 00:14:58,799 But you created that situation, you you created that environment where you're constantly volunteered and it doesn't just stop in the workplace. 163 00:14:58,939 --> 00:15:08,214 It happens within your personal life, you know, whether it's with your friends or your family, you know, if you've got that nature where you want to be helping everybody and 164 00:15:08,214 --> 00:15:15,238 serving everybody and making sure that everybody's happy, you know, you're giving and giving and giving and giving. 165 00:15:15,238 --> 00:15:24,273 And quite often those individuals don't know how to ask you whether you want any help because you don't allow them to help you. 166 00:15:24,273 --> 00:15:26,194 They think that you're doing okay. 167 00:15:26,194 --> 00:15:26,784 don't worry. 168 00:15:26,784 --> 00:15:28,485 Keely wants to do it. 169 00:15:28,485 --> 00:15:30,256 She's the one that likes organizing things. 170 00:15:30,256 --> 00:15:31,797 Don't worry, Keely will get it done. 171 00:15:31,797 --> 00:15:32,197 Don't worry. 172 00:15:32,197 --> 00:15:34,809 You you're that sort of mindset. 173 00:15:34,809 --> 00:15:39,281 So other people start relying on you, not because they're taking advantage of you. 174 00:15:39,281 --> 00:15:42,683 You've allowed that situation to occur. 175 00:15:44,815 --> 00:15:49,258 It's, it's, it's, yeah, madness, isn't it? 176 00:15:49,419 --> 00:15:49,860 Yeah. 177 00:15:49,860 --> 00:15:54,314 So, so what did you, what did you do when you, you left? 178 00:15:54,314 --> 00:15:54,892 What was, 179 00:15:54,892 --> 00:15:58,664 Well, the irony of it, so the irony of it. 180 00:15:58,664 --> 00:16:08,468 So when they actually put me at risk, the general management team was like, why have you decided to do this? 181 00:16:08,468 --> 00:16:13,270 He is the Brexit specialist and I've been running it for over four years. 182 00:16:14,270 --> 00:16:23,274 So they did offer an alternative role within the business, which I didn't want to take because it was working for an area that I didn't want to be a part 183 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,051 because I knew it was quite toxic and all those kind of things. 184 00:16:28,991 --> 00:16:33,523 But I did say to them that, then I won't take that role. 185 00:16:33,523 --> 00:16:40,815 But if you want me to come back as a consultant and continue running Brexit, then I'm happy to do that. 186 00:16:40,815 --> 00:16:43,675 So that's what I agreed. 187 00:16:43,675 --> 00:16:45,936 So I set up my own consultancy business. 188 00:16:45,936 --> 00:16:51,829 So although I crashed and burned, obviously a month into it, I've been signed off sick. 189 00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:57,572 That's when the conversation started happening about what it was we was going to do and how I was going to manage it and those kind of things. 190 00:16:57,572 --> 00:17:05,176 And it was during that time that I said, you know, I'll come back and do Brexit as a consultant. 191 00:17:06,157 --> 00:17:15,403 And I did that probably because of all of the delays that have happened with Brexit for probably for another year and a half, two years, I think. 192 00:17:15,403 --> 00:17:16,053 So. 193 00:17:18,730 --> 00:17:22,253 I make hay while the sun shines, as they say. 194 00:17:22,333 --> 00:17:28,548 And I also got opportunities to do consultancy work for other companies as well, because I was a specialist in that area. 195 00:17:28,548 --> 00:17:38,436 And some of the suppliers that knew me from when I was in that business and saw all the stuff I was posting about Brexit and all those companies, they then contacted me and said, 196 00:17:38,436 --> 00:17:42,954 would you be interested in doing an audit on us and where we are? 197 00:17:42,954 --> 00:17:44,975 and helping us where it's needed. 198 00:17:44,975 --> 00:17:46,856 So, you know, I was doing that as well. 199 00:17:46,856 --> 00:17:48,066 So that was that was great. 200 00:17:48,066 --> 00:17:50,437 So it me opportunities in that area. 201 00:17:50,977 --> 00:18:03,743 But interestingly, whilst I was doing all that work, particularly where I was working for the same company I was working, I realized that I hadn't changed anything. 202 00:18:03,743 --> 00:18:08,424 I was effectively doing the same role, but as a consultant. 203 00:18:08,505 --> 00:18:11,826 And because I still had that emotional connection with the 204 00:18:11,826 --> 00:18:13,946 and the individuals that are working. 205 00:18:13,946 --> 00:18:20,246 Imagine if you're someone for 23 years, there's not many parts of the business that you don't know about and people you don't know about. 206 00:18:20,246 --> 00:18:23,146 So you've still got that emotional connection with them. 207 00:18:23,146 --> 00:18:32,076 So where there's bureaucracy, where there's politics, where there's toxic environments, where there's certain behavior, you're still getting sucked into that. 208 00:18:32,076 --> 00:18:39,806 And also their expectations of you are still the same because they know what you was like before. 209 00:18:41,010 --> 00:18:42,380 I mean, it was really high pressure. 210 00:18:42,380 --> 00:18:50,150 I'm going to have to say when we went live for Brexit on January the first, I mean, we, I mean, we, started serving day, day one. 211 00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:52,550 We, I mean, obviously got, got that right. 212 00:18:53,610 --> 00:18:56,190 I'm not saying there weren't delays, but we got it sorted out. 213 00:18:56,190 --> 00:19:07,950 But I mean, those first three weeks was like probably one of the hardest times in my entire career because of long days, the pressure, I mean, 200 emails, like people 214 00:19:07,950 --> 00:19:10,148 messaging, complaining and 215 00:19:10,148 --> 00:19:20,101 even if it wasn't my fault, had people sort of like, you know, not being very pleasant, even my really good friends who ended up apologizing numerous times. 216 00:19:20,161 --> 00:19:28,083 But it made me have more of a wake up call of, actually, this isn't what I love. 217 00:19:28,083 --> 00:19:30,124 This isn't what I enjoy doing. 218 00:19:30,124 --> 00:19:32,065 It doesn't fill me up. 219 00:19:32,125 --> 00:19:36,358 So having had sort of like those few months before I went to 220 00:19:36,358 --> 00:19:42,243 July the first is when I officially started working because you had to have time out when you're made redundant with the company. 221 00:19:43,405 --> 00:19:50,712 But because I had that rest in time, it sort of made me realize how much I really didn't enjoy that side of it. 222 00:19:50,712 --> 00:20:00,262 But on reflection, the thing that I really enjoyed more than anything was when I was coaching and training and guiding and, you 223 00:20:00,420 --> 00:20:11,126 when people get in that inspiration, seeing that light shine in their eyes when they've got an idea, see it, know, helping them to go through that process of change and turn them 224 00:20:11,126 --> 00:20:12,716 into reality. 225 00:20:12,777 --> 00:20:14,007 It was that part of it. 226 00:20:14,007 --> 00:20:19,060 I knew passionately was what I loved and enjoyed doing. 227 00:20:19,060 --> 00:20:30,064 So it was then that I decided actually is the difficult path that I need to be going and then changing my direction and the coaching, the training and mental and the society. 228 00:20:30,064 --> 00:20:33,018 you know, that I decided to go on as a business. 229 00:20:33,961 --> 00:20:38,186 What I didn't know at that time was the what. 230 00:20:39,269 --> 00:20:44,096 So again, I then had to go on some more sort of journeys of discovery. 231 00:20:44,909 --> 00:20:46,100 That's life, isn't it? 232 00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:46,790 It is. 233 00:20:46,790 --> 00:20:52,393 It's journey, level up, sit there, look around, get a club and off you go again. 234 00:20:52,393 --> 00:21:02,157 How did you get to that point where you realised it was the working with people, encouraging them to find their greatness and their aha moments? 235 00:21:02,997 --> 00:21:06,269 How did you work out that's what you wanted to do? 236 00:21:06,269 --> 00:21:11,589 Because obviously that's quite a change from the corporate environment of Brexit and everything. 237 00:21:11,589 --> 00:21:24,941 think because obviously with my teams, mean, if you looked at my journey, everything that I've done is about sort of business improvement, about training others and coaching and 238 00:21:24,941 --> 00:21:25,712 development. 239 00:21:25,712 --> 00:21:30,056 I I was trained as a world -class manufacturing practitioner, which is teaching. 240 00:21:30,056 --> 00:21:32,950 I was trained as a Kaizen practitioner. 241 00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:35,552 You know, and everything I did was a practitioner. 242 00:21:35,552 --> 00:21:43,532 which then helps you to build teams, to lead teams, to train people, to coach people, everything is on that path. 243 00:21:43,532 --> 00:21:50,822 And whenever I was doing those kinds of things, running workshops with people, that was when I was in my element. 244 00:21:50,822 --> 00:21:53,912 That is what I enjoyed passionately. 245 00:21:55,212 --> 00:22:00,192 And interestingly, I think it became more of a reality. 246 00:22:00,352 --> 00:22:03,838 In June 21, 247 00:22:04,392 --> 00:22:16,831 Well, prior to doing first of all, I actually joined this executive networking events group, an amazing lady called Shelley, and signed up to go to Crumb Castle in Northern 248 00:22:16,831 --> 00:22:19,763 Ireland to stay there for a week for a masterclass. 249 00:22:19,763 --> 00:22:21,504 was a big investment. 250 00:22:21,504 --> 00:22:28,809 Part of it meant that you wrote a chapter within a book about your own journey, your personal story. 251 00:22:28,809 --> 00:22:31,911 The book was called The Art of Risk and Reward. 252 00:22:34,936 --> 00:22:42,351 My chapter was actually defining moments, you know, effectively about changing your pathway, you know, really. 253 00:22:42,411 --> 00:22:53,558 And at the same time, it meant that you had the opportunity to be standing on platforms and speak in front of an audience and the Eulachrom. 254 00:22:53,558 --> 00:22:59,201 And plus it was going to be streamed to about eight and a half thousand of audience. 255 00:22:59,201 --> 00:23:00,761 So nothing small. 256 00:23:03,571 --> 00:23:11,244 But whilst I was, when I signed up for that, and I thought, well, I had no idea how I was going to do it. 257 00:23:11,244 --> 00:23:13,735 I thought, you know, I'll do this anyway. 258 00:23:13,755 --> 00:23:27,421 And I also knew that there were so many things that needed to change within the corporate environment, you know, with leaders, you know, about having clarity of vision, about being 259 00:23:27,421 --> 00:23:30,801 clear about what your values and your beliefs are, about 260 00:23:30,801 --> 00:23:44,068 supporting the teams within the organisation, thinking about the guts of the organisation, which I know sounds a weird term, but I was designing something that was based on the face 261 00:23:44,068 --> 00:23:50,311 of the business, the heart of the business, the mind of the business and the guts of the organisation. 262 00:23:51,132 --> 00:23:54,845 And it was, you know, I had all of these... 263 00:23:54,845 --> 00:23:57,585 thoughts in my head about what needed to be done. 264 00:23:57,585 --> 00:23:58,765 I just didn't know how to do it. 265 00:23:58,765 --> 00:24:11,025 So in June of 21, this little man popped up on my screen, known as Andy Harrington, and was talking about how you can turn your service into a product. 266 00:24:11,665 --> 00:24:23,265 you know, because most of us, especially in coaching training, we have got all of these ideas about how you can help people, but we're not very good at actually turning it into a 267 00:24:23,265 --> 00:24:24,225 product 268 00:24:24,849 --> 00:24:28,232 people can see a tangible product that people can see. 269 00:24:28,232 --> 00:24:31,233 And this is where he came into the equation. 270 00:24:31,434 --> 00:24:38,661 And he's talked about how you can actually do this and also be able to communicate it in a way on the stage in a platform. 271 00:24:38,661 --> 00:24:41,833 was like, this is exactly what I need. 272 00:24:41,833 --> 00:24:49,238 So I watched one of these webinars, which was only supposed to be a small one, thought I'd do the same thing that most people do is that just 273 00:24:50,069 --> 00:24:54,861 partially listening to a webinar, partially doing other stuff, know, drinking, doing multiple things. 274 00:24:54,861 --> 00:25:00,313 But as soon as it started, I was like, boom, I was in there and I stayed there for like four hours. 275 00:25:00,313 --> 00:25:03,605 Then I stayed at the end of it, you know, signed up for the next week. 276 00:25:03,605 --> 00:25:07,916 Then I signed up for Spica University, which took four days. 277 00:25:07,916 --> 00:25:11,007 I was the first one to sign up through Spica Academy. 278 00:25:11,007 --> 00:25:20,261 And then I joined that and then I ended up then becoming one of these coaches and mentors to train other people to speak on a platform. 279 00:25:20,311 --> 00:25:29,515 So I'd gone sort of like, this massive journey all in one go, I don't do anything by heart. 280 00:25:29,575 --> 00:25:45,762 But it helped me to be able to formulate a program where I could coach and train others to be able to rediscover what it was that they truly love, you know, be able to build a 281 00:25:45,762 --> 00:25:47,112 pathway of change for them. 282 00:25:47,112 --> 00:25:48,863 But before they did 283 00:25:49,131 --> 00:25:54,491 you know, try to unlock and unblock some of the things that are holding them back. 284 00:25:54,491 --> 00:26:05,411 You know, the self -talk, know, the lack of self -belief, you know, the confidence, the stress management, you know, not actually taking care of ourselves, all of those fun 285 00:26:05,411 --> 00:26:06,351 things. 286 00:26:06,451 --> 00:26:17,789 So the first time I was able to sort of bring everything together of my 23 years of experience into a way that can help others to escape. 287 00:26:17,789 --> 00:26:24,322 or avoid altogether all of the things that I've been doing over the years. 288 00:26:24,343 --> 00:26:31,587 Quite a long story about it, yeah, that was really ultimately how I got to now. 289 00:26:31,878 --> 00:26:32,729 Thank you for that. 290 00:26:32,729 --> 00:26:34,930 I think that's remarkable. 291 00:26:34,930 --> 00:26:37,922 As you were saying that I was just following my timeline. 292 00:26:37,922 --> 00:26:44,717 you've basically throughout all of your working life, you've been trained how to coach people. 293 00:26:44,717 --> 00:26:46,608 You've done courses on how to coach people. 294 00:26:46,608 --> 00:26:57,495 So while you were working hard, you've had all that education teaching you all the skills you need now to go off on your own and add your magic into it. 295 00:26:57,495 --> 00:27:00,048 think that is really delightful. 296 00:27:00,048 --> 00:27:03,621 but you've had to get to a place, a dark hole to then look back. 297 00:27:03,821 --> 00:27:05,112 I did the same thing. 298 00:27:05,112 --> 00:27:06,444 I worked in the TV industry. 299 00:27:06,444 --> 00:27:09,326 I got paid to listen to amazing people talk. 300 00:27:09,346 --> 00:27:17,553 I realized three weeks ago, I got paid to learn how to interview people and how to hold a space and how to encourage conversation and things like that. 301 00:27:17,553 --> 00:27:23,999 And it's really wonderful when you are able to look back and go, it all makes sense now. 302 00:27:23,999 --> 00:27:27,353 All that crap, all the fun, all the heartache, all 303 00:27:27,353 --> 00:27:29,205 redundancy, all this, that and the other. 304 00:27:29,205 --> 00:27:36,852 And when you do join it all up, when you have that quiet time that you said, that slow time, it begins to make a bit more sense, doesn't 305 00:27:36,852 --> 00:27:38,154 Yeah, it does. 306 00:27:38,154 --> 00:27:38,914 It does. 307 00:27:38,914 --> 00:27:40,476 And it's quite magical as well. 308 00:27:40,476 --> 00:27:43,238 you suddenly have that wake up call. 309 00:27:43,238 --> 00:27:47,421 And interestingly, I had, it's almost like a second wave. 310 00:27:47,622 --> 00:27:51,555 Now, sadly, my brother died two years ago. 311 00:27:51,555 --> 00:28:01,924 And when I was first told about his diagnosis, and it was very rapid, know, that we felt from the day we found out to the point that he passed away. 312 00:28:01,924 --> 00:28:04,892 But when I was first spoke, 313 00:28:04,892 --> 00:28:21,302 told about his diagnosis for it, I had almost like another wake up call because originally I was thinking, you know, let's focus on leaders within businesses, CEOs, know, the teams 314 00:28:21,302 --> 00:28:24,625 and, you know, be within that corporate environment. 315 00:28:24,625 --> 00:28:34,267 Why am I actually sending myself into a location that was actually contributing to me feeling the way in which I was feeling? 316 00:28:34,388 --> 00:28:47,881 In fact, what I should be doing is actually helping other amazing, incredible women that are ambitious, doesn't matter where they are, whether it's in organizations, whether it's 317 00:28:47,881 --> 00:28:53,224 being entrepreneurs or business owners, is to be able to help them to... 318 00:28:53,224 --> 00:28:59,219 effectively escape or avoid all of those patterns of behavior that I've fallen into. 319 00:28:59,219 --> 00:29:11,610 Focus on people that I can connect with that, as you say, when you're talking a story, the challenges, your learnings, your experiences, you're talking the same language, you're 320 00:29:11,610 --> 00:29:18,365 talking to people that are going to connect with what it is that you're saying. 321 00:29:18,486 --> 00:29:21,368 And if you can tap into your own 322 00:29:21,934 --> 00:29:28,746 journeys and your own genius and so and be able to help people. 323 00:29:29,626 --> 00:29:32,317 what better things can you do in life? 324 00:29:32,317 --> 00:29:44,120 I mean know myself every single time I help someone and it doesn't matter whether it's it is female or male because quite often there are men that actually gravitate towards me 325 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:50,392 because of the things I say you know it's more they get with the emotional connection why it's you know. 326 00:29:50,498 --> 00:29:53,040 the emotional intelligence, why it's so important. 327 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,132 They recognize some of the traps. 328 00:29:56,813 --> 00:30:08,542 But when you do that, when you see that moment of clarity, when you do see that light shining in someone's eyes when they have that moment, and you can help them to move away 329 00:30:08,542 --> 00:30:12,005 from where they are, mean, what's more magical than that? 330 00:30:12,005 --> 00:30:16,708 And I mean, every single time, here, this is where I feel 331 00:30:16,754 --> 00:30:20,876 every single time and it makes me smile and it's an amazing thing to be a part 332 00:30:20,876 --> 00:30:22,097 I think that's lovely, isn't it? 333 00:30:22,097 --> 00:30:28,022 And then you've given them a chance to start to believe in themselves and who knows where they'll go with it. 334 00:30:28,083 --> 00:30:32,396 You know, it could be the next CEO of something that makes Microsoft look small. 335 00:30:32,396 --> 00:30:40,994 It could be someone who can now just concentrate on being a mum and love their children and change the stories that they, learned. 336 00:30:40,994 --> 00:30:42,275 I mean, there's no limit. 337 00:30:42,275 --> 00:30:43,326 I think that's really lovely. 338 00:30:43,326 --> 00:30:44,276 Yeah. 339 00:30:45,098 --> 00:30:47,571 And you're a bit more peaceful and a bit more... 340 00:30:47,571 --> 00:30:52,949 enjoying life a little bit more and able to walk your dog with a little bit more of bounce I guess as well. 341 00:30:53,241 --> 00:30:54,122 Yeah, yeah. 342 00:30:54,122 --> 00:31:07,091 think that, and I think you found this as well, is that as soon as you do stop and slow down and the noise in here stops, you're far more present. 343 00:31:07,091 --> 00:31:09,221 You you see the beauty around you. 344 00:31:09,221 --> 00:31:11,674 You hear the birds sing. 345 00:31:11,674 --> 00:31:15,366 You see, you know, the sheep that are in the field next door to you. 346 00:31:15,366 --> 00:31:17,038 You see the swans fly off. 347 00:31:17,038 --> 00:31:20,020 You know, I'm having a conversation with a dog, you know. 348 00:31:20,020 --> 00:31:22,061 I may, many people might think 349 00:31:22,061 --> 00:31:26,602 raving mad, but I'm quite happy having a chat with them. 350 00:31:26,682 --> 00:31:36,455 But you know, being just being present, you know, in that space of calm and not racing towards an end goal. 351 00:31:36,455 --> 00:31:38,796 And yes, it is fantastic having a vision. 352 00:31:38,796 --> 00:31:45,657 It is important to have clarity of your journey and where you were going and how you're to get there. 353 00:31:45,657 --> 00:31:50,769 But, you know, for goodness sake, be present whilst you're doing it. 354 00:31:51,617 --> 00:32:02,532 you know enjoy the here and now because you you don't know how long you've got you don't know when things will change you don't know when those opportunities might have to do you 355 00:32:02,532 --> 00:32:05,052 know a detour so just 356 00:32:05,052 --> 00:32:06,516 Just slow down. 357 00:32:07,161 --> 00:32:08,705 Just enjoy it. 358 00:32:10,846 --> 00:32:12,329 on a lovely summer's daylight today. 359 00:32:12,329 --> 00:32:15,974 Yeah, sit outside in the sun like I am and just enjoy it. 360 00:32:15,974 --> 00:32:18,307 Yeah, I think it's so important. 361 00:32:19,205 --> 00:32:21,026 yeah, definitely. 362 00:32:21,506 --> 00:32:34,152 And I think the other thing as well is, I think one of the biggest lessons that I've learned is that setting personal boundaries as well, you know, it's nice being able to 363 00:32:34,152 --> 00:32:37,093 help others, it's nice being able to serve others. 364 00:32:37,093 --> 00:32:42,356 But so often we get, especially if you've got that people, please, the mindset. 365 00:32:43,302 --> 00:32:50,837 we fall into the traps of not certain personal boundaries and we're always saying yes to everybody else. 366 00:32:51,058 --> 00:33:02,627 And there's also this belief that if we don't say yes, then we might be judged, we might be seen as weak, we might be seen as not very nice. 367 00:33:02,627 --> 00:33:09,272 We're just being unkind and we're not respecting somebody else. 368 00:33:09,966 --> 00:33:20,035 And the reality is that it's just so not true because when you start setting personal boundaries, when you do start saying no, as an eyesight therapist, you know it is a 369 00:33:20,035 --> 00:33:25,040 sentence, you can follow it with a thank you, but you don't have to justify why. 370 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,975 Because we all feel that need to say, no, I can't because of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 371 00:33:30,975 --> 00:33:33,307 And sometimes people wind up lying about it. 372 00:33:33,307 --> 00:33:34,428 You don't need to lie. 373 00:33:34,428 --> 00:33:36,699 It's just that no, 374 00:33:36,912 --> 00:33:40,773 not right now, you know, so no, thank you, you know. 375 00:33:40,814 --> 00:33:45,596 And the amazing thing is, actually people respect you more for doing that. 376 00:33:45,596 --> 00:33:55,920 You you show off as a leader when you respect your boundaries and not only does it actually teach you and others to respect your boundaries, is it teaches them to respect 377 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,000 their own. 378 00:33:57,321 --> 00:33:59,141 Lead by example. 379 00:34:00,082 --> 00:34:04,855 You know, there's so many lessons that we learn when we just slow down. 380 00:34:04,855 --> 00:34:10,780 Yeah, that's really interesting that the people please in the codependency. 381 00:34:10,780 --> 00:34:15,273 It's got a darker side to it, which you've alluded to there. 382 00:34:15,273 --> 00:34:17,185 But why do we do it? 383 00:34:17,185 --> 00:34:18,516 Why is it so prevalent? 384 00:34:18,516 --> 00:34:23,569 I mean, it's not just women, men do it as well, but I know it is more of a female trait. 385 00:34:23,630 --> 00:34:27,202 Why is it such a unhealthy and toxic thing? 386 00:34:27,202 --> 00:34:31,265 I've got to be really careful with this because... 387 00:34:31,277 --> 00:34:34,936 Yeah, why is it toxic and unhealthy, particularly the unhealthy bit? 388 00:34:34,936 --> 00:34:37,587 So first of all, why do we do it? 389 00:34:38,147 --> 00:34:41,339 mean, the starting point is it's programmed into us. 390 00:34:41,339 --> 00:34:55,075 And that's not intentionally, it's unintentionally and also meant with good intention in the sense that, you know, our parents, in our schools, our peers, our colleagues, you 391 00:34:55,075 --> 00:35:00,499 know, for our culture, you know, our religions, you know, it can be so many different 392 00:35:00,499 --> 00:35:05,363 why we behave in that way, you know, that need to please. 393 00:35:05,423 --> 00:35:12,629 And some of it is, I mean, I know one of the reasons that I do is that I have this fear of confrontation. 394 00:35:13,070 --> 00:35:20,996 And fear of confrontation is that, you know, if everybody's happy, then everything's fine. 395 00:35:21,337 --> 00:35:24,860 If people aren't happy, there's unpredictability. 396 00:35:24,860 --> 00:35:28,222 So if you're in that state where 397 00:35:29,081 --> 00:35:37,033 pleasing everybody, then you feel that everything is going to remain in that happy space and everything's going to be good and all those kind of things. 398 00:35:37,033 --> 00:35:47,646 You've then also got the fact that as a kid, you get these statements, you're happily playing with a toy and then another child perhaps takes it off of you and you want to take 399 00:35:47,646 --> 00:35:51,647 it back and they say, don't be unkind, let them have it, let them play with it. 400 00:35:51,647 --> 00:35:58,419 And it's like, Why aren't they corrected for? 401 00:35:58,649 --> 00:36:02,200 you know, taking it off as someone in the first place, you know. 402 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:11,403 There's also this situation where you feel the need to say yes, because if you say no, that you're not a very nice person. 403 00:36:11,863 --> 00:36:13,443 And that's not true. 404 00:36:13,443 --> 00:36:24,750 You know, if you're saying no all the time, you know, I get how someone will turn and say, you know, nice person, but and also the other thing is, is that you've got that side of 405 00:36:24,750 --> 00:36:37,204 where you're always told, yes, and then also as cultures and in certain families, you've got these attitudes where the women should be waiting on the men, that they're there to 406 00:36:37,204 --> 00:36:45,276 serve men or serve even their brothers or their sisters because they're older, all of those kinds of things. 407 00:36:45,276 --> 00:36:49,077 they are literally that, they're programmed into us. 408 00:36:49,337 --> 00:36:53,168 And I think very hard to break some of these. 409 00:36:53,362 --> 00:37:00,455 patterns that are programmed into us and until you see it and you're aware of it, you can't do anything about it. 410 00:37:00,455 --> 00:37:04,297 So it just becomes an instinct to act in that way. 411 00:37:04,317 --> 00:37:09,009 don't worry, I'll do it, you know, like, or, you know, it's fine, I'll sort it all out. 412 00:37:09,009 --> 00:37:14,211 You know, it's like, you know, I've got an event, I'll sort it out. 413 00:37:14,211 --> 00:37:16,322 You know, got an email to do, I'll sort it out. 414 00:37:16,322 --> 00:37:18,303 Got a phone call to do, I'll sort it out. 415 00:37:18,303 --> 00:37:20,390 know, cook a dinner 416 00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:22,992 God knows how many people, yeah, I'll do it. 417 00:37:22,992 --> 00:37:26,973 It's that programmed behavior. 418 00:37:27,374 --> 00:37:35,478 And the reason why it then ends up being toxic, it's toxic on you because we cannot drink from an empty cup. 419 00:37:35,759 --> 00:37:45,564 And we need to have those times where we do practice self care and self love and self compassion and take time out for ourselves. 420 00:37:45,825 --> 00:37:48,006 Even with our children, you 421 00:37:48,466 --> 00:37:51,367 constantly be there for their back and calls. 422 00:37:51,367 --> 00:37:54,669 So you do need to say times of it, do you know what? 423 00:37:54,669 --> 00:38:06,885 No, I'm having some hour, you know, an hour for myself to just go off, know, whether it's sit in my garden and be quiet, go and do some exercise, go and have a walk, you know, run 424 00:38:06,885 --> 00:38:13,098 a bath, you know, put some bubble bath in it, you know, if you want to drink some wine 425 00:38:13,136 --> 00:38:20,392 You know, just I don't care what it is, you know, but I mean, I don't recommend that you do treat yourself to a glass of wine every single time that you need to. 426 00:38:20,392 --> 00:38:25,847 But it's just practicing some self care and self love for yourself. 427 00:38:25,847 --> 00:38:37,678 mean, my daughter, the best thing that she ever said to me, we was having a massage, she was a massage room therapist and I was having a massage. 428 00:38:37,678 --> 00:38:40,550 And one of the things I always used to do is 429 00:38:41,214 --> 00:38:49,298 I mean, I traveled all the time and unfortunately my husband's got chronic back injury and fibromyalgia and my daughter's got fibromyalgia. 430 00:38:49,298 --> 00:38:59,722 And so I always wanted to come into the house, know, know, everything's fine, nothing to see here, you know, all energized because I didn't want to bring home my crat because 431 00:38:59,722 --> 00:39:02,083 obviously they've got enough going on in their lives. 432 00:39:02,083 --> 00:39:09,706 I used to sit in the car, I'd have a cry in the car and the driveway then come in with that, hey, 433 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:20,825 And she was doing me a massage one day and while she was massaging me, I just started crying and crying and crying and crying. 434 00:39:20,825 --> 00:39:23,287 And she was like, you know, why are you crying? 435 00:39:23,287 --> 00:39:25,048 And I explained what was going on. 436 00:39:25,048 --> 00:39:25,789 And she said... 437 00:39:25,789 --> 00:39:34,902 Have you ever, has it ever occurred to you mum that you don't allow us, you don't give us permission to be able to ask if you're okay? 438 00:39:34,902 --> 00:39:50,466 You you don't give us permission to be able to support or help you because you always come across as super strong and unless you allow us, empower us, then we never know how to. 439 00:39:50,466 --> 00:39:50,616 my god. 440 00:39:50,616 --> 00:39:50,967 It's 441 00:39:50,967 --> 00:40:00,705 gut a punch, know, gut punch and maybe realize that how selfish I was actually being because I wasn't actually empowering them to help me. 442 00:40:00,705 --> 00:40:07,680 And that's where that sort of toxic behaviour comes in for yourself, not necessarily for others but for yourself. 443 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:17,070 But then, because you're tired, so you're exhausted, so stressed and anxious, then that will then have an icon on your 444 00:40:17,070 --> 00:40:18,951 performance, the way in which you behave. 445 00:40:18,951 --> 00:40:22,542 You start being touchy with other people, you become impatient. 446 00:40:22,542 --> 00:40:30,545 You, you, as I say, you get resentful because they're not doing things. 447 00:40:30,545 --> 00:40:35,727 And, know, you make these assumptions that they actually know to help. 448 00:40:35,908 --> 00:40:38,229 And it's like, because we say, well, they should know. 449 00:40:38,229 --> 00:40:41,490 It's like, no, they don't know. 450 00:40:41,930 --> 00:40:43,611 Because you don't allow it. 451 00:40:43,611 --> 00:40:45,571 So that's how it then gravitates on you. 452 00:40:45,571 --> 00:40:46,924 So it 453 00:40:46,924 --> 00:40:48,516 impacts in so many different ways. 454 00:40:48,516 --> 00:40:58,122 You have just described my life in so many ways and thank you. 455 00:40:58,122 --> 00:41:02,564 It's an uncomfortable reminder of doing all of those things. 456 00:41:02,564 --> 00:41:03,285 Yes, I can do it. 457 00:41:03,285 --> 00:41:04,605 Yes, I can do it. 458 00:41:04,646 --> 00:41:05,486 You should know. 459 00:41:05,486 --> 00:41:14,742 I was, you know, they should have known and it's madness to think that if you don't tell people, don't ask, they're not going to know that you need help. 460 00:41:14,742 --> 00:41:15,242 It is, isn't it? 461 00:41:15,242 --> 00:41:16,393 It's not being authentic. 462 00:41:16,393 --> 00:41:18,904 As you said, I might have to move. 463 00:41:19,404 --> 00:41:29,028 You're so busy people pleasing so you can keep it controlled, keep it safe, keep it all where you know what you need. 464 00:41:29,149 --> 00:41:30,769 You're disempowering people. 465 00:41:30,769 --> 00:41:33,730 I I used to disempower my ex -partners and things. 466 00:41:34,451 --> 00:41:36,643 And then I had to go through the processor. 467 00:41:36,643 --> 00:41:37,923 Why did I do that? 468 00:41:37,923 --> 00:41:41,666 And then beat myself up and then realizing that I just didn't know better. 469 00:41:41,666 --> 00:41:49,769 and I had to stop, I had to consciously not beat myself up for that behaviour because I didn't know better and then make those changes. 470 00:41:49,769 --> 00:41:58,207 it's, yeah, I think it's interesting because when I mentioned that on social media about the unhealthy aspects of co -dependency, it's just like, no, I'm loving, I'm giving. 471 00:41:58,207 --> 00:42:03,840 It's delicate and I think you've described it so beautifully, so thank you for that 472 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:10,526 I know people listening will be going through the same thing as me looking at it and realising that, yeah, I did that. 473 00:42:10,526 --> 00:42:23,807 So how did you make sense of that realisation of like, wow, that is me and then mitigate the beating yourself up or the shaming yourself or the guilty for disempowering because 474 00:42:23,807 --> 00:42:25,549 that's like the next step, isn't it? 475 00:42:25,549 --> 00:42:28,260 Yeah, it's an interesting thing really. 476 00:42:28,581 --> 00:42:43,319 I think like anything, it's that when you're on this journey to discovery, do, especially if you've got that growth mindset, you read so many books, you listen to so many podcasts, 477 00:42:43,319 --> 00:42:51,925 you listen to anything associated with learning, really to just find, what is it that I'm doing 478 00:42:51,925 --> 00:42:53,466 caused me to behave this way. 479 00:42:53,466 --> 00:43:02,011 I mean, one of them was, you know, the people, know, people pleading and trying to understand what was called people pleader. 480 00:43:02,011 --> 00:43:05,993 And it's trying to understand what was driving those sort of patterns of behavior. 481 00:43:06,233 --> 00:43:18,260 But also, think, you know, I mean, my husband actually, despite him being medically retired for so long, he practiced NLP. 482 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:19,899 And of course, there's a lot 483 00:43:19,899 --> 00:43:27,131 you know, books associated that that helps you to sort of start understanding some of the things that you're actually doing. 484 00:43:27,171 --> 00:43:34,973 And, you know, the biggest thing was this whole realization that, you know, external factors, they're always going to come in, it doesn't matter. 485 00:43:34,973 --> 00:43:39,574 In any walk of life, you will have external factors that come in. 486 00:43:39,774 --> 00:43:49,457 And for anybody that has practice or is aware of neuro linguistic programming, why not, they call it something so long beyond me, but there you go. 487 00:43:49,627 --> 00:44:05,549 But when you start studying that and you realize that you do sort of generalize, filter, you delete, and all of these different things, you realize that whatever those external 488 00:44:05,549 --> 00:44:17,187 factors are, the only person that can change the way in which you, and I say, react or respond to it, is yourself. 489 00:44:17,885 --> 00:44:29,831 So the only way that you can understand what's causing you to behave in that way is be able to create awareness of some of your behaviors, the way in which you're behaving on a 490 00:44:29,831 --> 00:44:31,552 day -to -day basis. 491 00:44:31,552 --> 00:44:37,756 So you can start asking yourself questions about, why did I do that? 492 00:44:37,756 --> 00:44:46,640 When my stress levels start going up and getting elevated, when I snapped up my loving son, but as a way 493 00:44:47,739 --> 00:44:52,533 been able to elevate my responses quite quickly. 494 00:44:54,235 --> 00:44:59,119 Why was I in this specific event, feeling like this? 495 00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:09,688 When you start asking those questions, the more questions you ask yourself, then the more you start understanding yourself and where it's coming from, why you did that, the 496 00:45:09,688 --> 00:45:11,420 decisions and the connections. 497 00:45:11,420 --> 00:45:14,732 So then you can then start thinking about, what can I do differently? 498 00:45:14,732 --> 00:45:23,437 How can I reframe the way in which I reacted and be able to take that step back? 499 00:45:23,437 --> 00:45:36,584 that's where this being able to stop and slow down and breathe and take time to sort of think about, well, okay, how can I respond to this differently? 500 00:45:36,604 --> 00:45:40,050 And sometimes it, you know, in the moment it's hard. 501 00:45:40,050 --> 00:45:50,430 But if you can sort of take a step back afterwards and go, right, okay, well, if this happens again, I know it's going to happen again with certain individuals, it's definitely 502 00:45:50,430 --> 00:45:51,310 going to happen. 503 00:45:51,310 --> 00:45:54,510 So how can I respond to them in a controlled way? 504 00:45:54,510 --> 00:45:58,050 So you're taking about 100 % control of that situation. 505 00:45:58,050 --> 00:46:02,650 You know, even the worst thing that we often do is that people fear conflict. 506 00:46:02,650 --> 00:46:09,980 And the reality is, is that when you avoid it, you're actually not in a win situation. 507 00:46:09,980 --> 00:46:12,511 you're always in a lose situation. 508 00:46:12,972 --> 00:46:18,296 And yes, there are times when you can turn around and say, actually, this is getting out of control. 509 00:46:18,296 --> 00:46:19,637 It's not certain either. 510 00:46:19,637 --> 00:46:25,000 So now we both need to take a step back to take time out to think about it. 511 00:46:25,061 --> 00:46:29,564 And then when you come back later on, you come back in a more controlled manner anyway. 512 00:46:29,564 --> 00:46:32,186 So you've had time to reflect on what they've said. 513 00:46:32,186 --> 00:46:34,608 You've had time to reflect on what you said. 514 00:46:34,608 --> 00:46:38,170 Then you're able to come back in that space of control and 515 00:46:38,774 --> 00:46:51,472 you show up as a leader in those situations, not just as a leader in a work environment, but within your family and your friends, you know, someone that people will follow rather 516 00:46:51,472 --> 00:46:56,095 than that individual that's always in the emotional, as I call it, the emotional monkey. 517 00:46:56,095 --> 00:47:04,738 And not just as an emotional monkey, you know, that person that the ego takes over or you start 518 00:47:04,738 --> 00:47:11,361 you know, second guessing what somebody else is saying, you you start becoming as that one that's always draining the room. 519 00:47:12,122 --> 00:47:22,207 When you have more control over what it is you're saying and understanding where it comes from and the control is back there, then you then show up in a way where you are more 520 00:47:22,207 --> 00:47:22,888 controlled. 521 00:47:22,888 --> 00:47:28,931 People want to follow you, you know, you've got more structure, more clarity, more focus, you know, so many things. 522 00:47:28,991 --> 00:47:31,312 So there's so many things that you can do. 523 00:47:31,312 --> 00:47:34,794 But that awareness is the key thing, isn't it? 524 00:47:34,883 --> 00:47:45,869 I'd say it's hard to find that awareness when we're so busy rushing around, being busy doing, being human doings, running around, fixing, saving, rescuing, making money. 525 00:47:45,869 --> 00:47:54,475 And yeah, not looking after ourselves, as he said, not slowing down, not taking the dog for a walk and having a chat with it when you get 526 00:47:54,475 --> 00:47:55,936 We've got it all wrong somewhere, haven't we? 527 00:47:55,936 --> 00:47:56,416 Somewhere... 528 00:47:56,416 --> 00:47:57,687 I got a t -shirt. 529 00:47:57,687 --> 00:47:59,519 Somewhere something has gone terribly wrong. 530 00:47:59,519 --> 00:48:05,504 I'm not wearing it today, obviously, but I think I should wear that more often because somewhere something went terribly wrong. 531 00:48:05,504 --> 00:48:20,984 You know, taking that point, I mean, I think in schools, there are three things that should be taught in schools, just as part of the curriculum, and it would save so much 532 00:48:20,984 --> 00:48:27,168 stress, anxiety and burnout, not just as, you know, adults, but in schools as well. 533 00:48:27,168 --> 00:48:31,310 It would help us and kids to have much healthier. 534 00:48:31,436 --> 00:48:36,509 lives, you know, instead of having all of that anxiety and anger that's built up. 535 00:48:36,529 --> 00:48:48,606 And one of them, I believe, is emotional freedom technique, which for anybody that doesn't know, it's effectively like tapping, which is on the meridians of, you know, the same sort 536 00:48:48,606 --> 00:48:53,758 of locations that you've got your for acupuncture, you know, the tapping points. 537 00:48:53,818 --> 00:49:00,802 And it teaches you to be able to process things in a healthier way, you know, bring your stresses down. 538 00:49:01,132 --> 00:49:09,246 there is no risk to it, anybody can learn it no matter what age they are so it's really good for helping them from that side of it. 539 00:49:09,246 --> 00:49:13,528 The other thing is it's actually learning to breathe properly. 540 00:49:13,528 --> 00:49:23,533 You know so often we're told to breathe and pull in our belly rather than really if you're breathing properly and you're breathing into your belly and your belly is ballooning and 541 00:49:23,533 --> 00:49:24,885 you're learning to actually 542 00:49:24,885 --> 00:49:30,929 You know, it helps you to de -stress in those moments which helps you to get more clarity. 543 00:49:30,970 --> 00:49:38,466 Learning, you know, as I say, to manage conflict in a constructive way rather than a destructive way. 544 00:49:38,466 --> 00:49:42,119 So you're having healthy conversations, you know, just doing those three things. 545 00:49:42,119 --> 00:49:50,515 And finally, it's learning that it is okay to say no and you can set healthy boundaries. 546 00:49:50,655 --> 00:49:57,190 And those four, and I don't know, said three first of all, but I think those four things, I think it would help. 547 00:49:57,190 --> 00:49:58,744 Can you imagine what schools would be 548 00:49:58,744 --> 00:50:00,755 Yeah. 549 00:50:00,755 --> 00:50:01,266 I love that. 550 00:50:01,266 --> 00:50:04,738 Those four are so important, aren't they? 551 00:50:04,738 --> 00:50:14,825 And the breathing one, as you did that, I suddenly realised, yeah, I'm sitting straight, tummy in, it's just like, now I breathe, it's like, yeah, it's all there, but it's 552 00:50:14,825 --> 00:50:15,955 comfortable. 553 00:50:16,716 --> 00:50:19,238 Shoulders sag, just relax, breathe. 554 00:50:19,238 --> 00:50:19,859 Yeah. 555 00:50:19,859 --> 00:50:23,092 And just calm down and get more present again. 556 00:50:23,092 --> 00:50:24,292 Who knows? 557 00:50:24,413 --> 00:50:26,374 I know we've got a mutual friend who 558 00:50:26,524 --> 00:50:27,355 works with kids. 559 00:50:27,355 --> 00:50:32,892 So maybe she can implement that kind of stuff into those schools or into the classes and things that she does. 560 00:50:32,892 --> 00:50:39,325 be absolutely brilliant if schools could do that, know, part of their practice. 561 00:50:39,525 --> 00:50:50,140 And I think it would be not only great in schools, it would be great for parenting, it would be great in the workplace, it would have so many different benefits that it could 562 00:50:50,140 --> 00:50:54,912 have by introducing those, you know, four simple strategies. 563 00:50:55,393 --> 00:50:58,365 Yeah, life would be so much easier, wouldn't 564 00:50:58,365 --> 00:51:00,196 And then we'd find something else to complicate it. 565 00:51:00,196 --> 00:51:01,367 But that's part of being human. 566 00:51:01,367 --> 00:51:06,120 We get to a level, we learn something and then there's the next thing to learn. 567 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,031 And then there's the next thing to learn. 568 00:51:08,952 --> 00:51:11,663 I think it's remarkable. 569 00:51:11,663 --> 00:51:18,277 I do think my generation, it was very, very different to the current kids and things like that. 570 00:51:18,277 --> 00:51:23,160 There's much more authenticity rather than this attachment, 571 00:51:23,518 --> 00:51:33,304 need things like that, but it makes it more difficult because they're perceived as unruly and not paying attention and things, but really they're just being truer to themselves. 572 00:51:33,304 --> 00:51:38,082 So they've got their own journeys to make sense of as well. 573 00:51:38,082 --> 00:51:52,064 And it's interesting that you say that because I mean, one of the key parts of my program, the freedom transformation formula, which I love, is about helping people to rediscover 574 00:51:52,064 --> 00:51:52,554 their why. 575 00:51:52,554 --> 00:52:02,682 Because one of the biggest things that I've discovered is that, you know, particularly what we're up to now, as the generation said, I lose track of all of them now. 576 00:52:02,863 --> 00:52:07,126 you know, working backward from the millennials, they are 577 00:52:07,126 --> 00:52:21,230 very much focus within organizations and business on focusing on the purpose, know, being connected to their values and their beliefs, because unless they're aligned, that's when 578 00:52:21,230 --> 00:52:22,550 it becomes unbalanced. 579 00:52:22,550 --> 00:52:32,453 And that's where some of the behaviors kick in and the frustrations and feeling like it's Groundhog Day and just like life's on repeat, you know, that cycle. 580 00:52:33,153 --> 00:52:37,026 And, you know, so often they'll just leave an organization. 581 00:52:37,026 --> 00:52:43,796 they will walk, you know, they're there maybe for a year, two years, you know, whereas, like I said, I was there for 23 years. 582 00:52:43,796 --> 00:52:53,766 Now half of my organization, particularly my age group and upwards, you know, they've been there, it's almost like they've been born on the end of a paper machine. 583 00:52:53,766 --> 00:53:01,866 And then they was there forever, you know, and so often with organizations, that's what actually happened. 584 00:53:01,866 --> 00:53:07,058 But now with, you know, youngsters, they are fit with their feet, they're not happy. 585 00:53:07,210 --> 00:53:09,541 And they don't like what the environment is. 586 00:53:09,541 --> 00:53:11,722 They don't feel they've got a purpose. 587 00:53:11,722 --> 00:53:13,292 They don't feel it's connected to their values. 588 00:53:13,292 --> 00:53:15,483 They go, I'm leaving. 589 00:53:15,483 --> 00:53:17,514 I just don't want to be here anymore. 590 00:53:17,514 --> 00:53:18,594 And they do it. 591 00:53:18,594 --> 00:53:31,078 So the question we have to ask any leader, doesn't matter what type of business it is, how are you going to keep the next generations 592 00:53:31,446 --> 00:53:40,973 Because if you don't, you do not change your behavior, if you do not nurture your teams, if you don't give them any values, if you don't empower them, if you don't motivate them, 593 00:53:41,655 --> 00:53:43,756 you're not going to be able to keep your business. 594 00:53:44,077 --> 00:53:45,278 That's the fact. 595 00:53:45,278 --> 00:53:48,390 That is what will happen because they're not going to accept it. 596 00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:49,811 They're not accepting it. 597 00:53:49,811 --> 00:53:51,322 And you know what, Hamish? 598 00:53:51,443 --> 00:53:59,529 Since COVID, with people in our age group and above, and maybe younger, probably in the sort of mid -forties, 599 00:54:01,518 --> 00:54:12,091 Where they had not had to, where they were put in a situation where they spent time at home and they could spend time with their families and start spending time with their fans 600 00:54:12,091 --> 00:54:18,323 and start being present, even more so they've gone enough is enough, I'm not accepting this anymore. 601 00:54:18,323 --> 00:54:20,584 So they're leaving and thinking of their fate. 602 00:54:20,584 --> 00:54:28,386 There are more businesses, entrepreneurs that have actually been generated since COVID than there's ever been. 603 00:54:28,386 --> 00:54:29,646 And actually, 604 00:54:30,028 --> 00:54:32,700 There's more women as well. 605 00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:42,008 So it's almost doubled, or in fact I think, troubled, the amount of women that have gone into business on their own and said, I'm not doing this anymore, that I'm done. 606 00:54:44,061 --> 00:54:45,363 I think that's wonderful. 607 00:54:45,363 --> 00:54:49,218 You work in this sphere, you see this all the time, do 608 00:54:49,218 --> 00:54:51,610 Yeah, yeah, yeah, most definitely. 609 00:54:51,610 --> 00:54:56,324 mean, even with, you know, I I think I mentioned that I'm part of the Speaker Academy. 610 00:54:56,324 --> 00:55:02,229 And so one of the things I do is coach people in how to present on the stage and create their own frameworks. 611 00:55:02,229 --> 00:55:13,438 And quite often, there is a line share of that audience, ex -corporates that have said, I'm done, I've had enough, I don't want this anymore. 612 00:55:13,678 --> 00:55:16,861 So, you know, they're thinking with their feet. 613 00:55:17,173 --> 00:55:23,037 and they're taking up opportunities to actually create their own businesses and do what they love. 614 00:55:23,117 --> 00:55:33,784 And being a part of that, being able to actually help them to discover what it is they truly love, because after all, we only have one life. 615 00:55:33,825 --> 00:55:43,172 as I say, be more dragonfly, live life with passion, purpose, joy, and most of all, for the fall. 616 00:55:43,172 --> 00:55:45,345 and what better way to do it? 617 00:55:45,345 --> 00:55:47,231 We have one crack of the whip, don't we, Hamish? 618 00:55:47,231 --> 00:55:48,453 Let's enjoy it. 619 00:55:48,963 --> 00:55:50,163 Absolutely. 620 00:55:50,284 --> 00:55:52,225 I think that's lovely. 621 00:55:52,225 --> 00:55:58,609 I love the fact that you've gained all that experience in that arena that you walked from. 622 00:55:58,609 --> 00:56:08,085 Okay, well, you left and you're helping people to go back to that arena, but with boundaries and self -pride and self -respect. 623 00:56:08,085 --> 00:56:11,017 And that's just so empowering, isn't it? 624 00:56:11,017 --> 00:56:12,808 I mean, that must... 625 00:56:13,008 --> 00:56:20,048 That must get you up at five o 'clock in the morning and sometimes get you to bed at half past 11 at night because it's like, I'm having fun. 626 00:56:20,048 --> 00:56:23,308 And when you have fun, you're energized and you're empowered. 627 00:56:24,115 --> 00:56:27,737 Yeah, I mean, you know how it is. 628 00:56:28,317 --> 00:56:40,322 It is tough being an entrepreneur, in fact, but when you've actually found your passion, what it is that drives you every single day, and it does motivate you, it's like you're in 629 00:56:40,322 --> 00:56:42,283 a compass. 630 00:56:42,363 --> 00:56:50,406 And, you know, even on the toughest day, you still feel motivated, you still feel energized, you still say, can do this. 631 00:56:50,406 --> 00:56:52,727 And that's the thing that keeps you going. 632 00:56:54,059 --> 00:56:57,750 with adversity and resilience and consistency. 633 00:56:57,750 --> 00:57:13,055 But the important thing that I do encourage, I truly encourage is that no matter what happens, even as an entrepreneur or a business owner or a leader is that you do need to 634 00:57:13,055 --> 00:57:17,926 remember to stop, slow down, take time out. 635 00:57:17,926 --> 00:57:20,747 Because if you do do that, you 636 00:57:20,747 --> 00:57:22,907 to half past 11 every single night. 637 00:57:22,907 --> 00:57:28,927 If you do get up at five o 'clock every single morning, there's only so long that you can keep that up. 638 00:57:28,927 --> 00:57:39,607 So you still need to be mindful of yourself and be aware of what your daily life is looking at and ask yourself, why am I working till late at night? 639 00:57:40,107 --> 00:57:46,613 Because you can keep on sort of doing the do, do, do, do, do. 640 00:57:47,007 --> 00:57:53,655 but it's not going to be serving you a long time and you're not going to be able to sustain it no matter how motivated and energized you are. 641 00:57:54,880 --> 00:58:00,047 Yeah, yeah too much doo doo doo you'll be in the doo doo doo, won't you? 642 00:58:00,571 --> 00:58:01,512 Yes, indeed. 643 00:58:01,512 --> 00:58:09,689 Yes, start being a human being and also remember that human connection is absolutely fundamental with it as well. 644 00:58:09,689 --> 00:58:16,076 So if you get locked away in your room all of the time and not actually connecting with others, that's not serving you either. 645 00:58:16,076 --> 00:58:16,917 Brilliant. 646 00:58:16,917 --> 00:58:18,318 Keely, this has been fabulous. 647 00:58:18,318 --> 00:58:18,959 Thank you. 648 00:58:18,959 --> 00:58:30,048 I think you've shared some real gems and some insight and you've dared to tell people your story of breaking down. 649 00:58:30,048 --> 00:58:33,261 And thank you for that because there's a lot of embarrassment. 650 00:58:33,261 --> 00:58:35,343 There's a lot of, you know, I couldn't do that. 651 00:58:35,343 --> 00:58:36,013 I wouldn't want that. 652 00:58:36,013 --> 00:58:37,845 It just be my idea of absolute hell. 653 00:58:37,845 --> 00:58:39,356 But you've owned it. 654 00:58:39,356 --> 00:58:43,239 And you said that allowed you to make sense of everything that you've 655 00:58:43,571 --> 00:58:48,508 brought with you, you've looked back and thought, I learned how to do this, this and this and this. 656 00:58:48,508 --> 00:58:51,631 I also learned how to look after myself and now you're empowering others. 657 00:58:51,631 --> 00:58:57,340 think that is really genuinely wonderful and I really wish you all the best for that. 658 00:58:57,340 --> 00:58:58,480 So thank you. 659 00:58:59,232 --> 00:58:59,882 My pleasure. 660 00:58:59,882 --> 00:59:04,333 And yeah, thank you for allowing me space to be on here. 661 00:59:04,414 --> 00:59:08,235 I've really enjoyed it and I've loved your questions. 662 00:59:08,455 --> 00:59:12,836 And this is for everybody that's listening. 663 00:59:12,836 --> 00:59:21,439 If you want to take a personal boundaries quiz, Hamish will be sharing it in the link, I'll be sharing it others. 664 00:59:21,439 --> 00:59:24,790 And it's an opportunity for you to just evaluate. 665 00:59:25,346 --> 00:59:30,164 whether you are setting personal boundaries or maybe that little people pleaser is slipping in. 666 00:59:30,164 --> 00:59:34,282 it's a great opportunity to just assess where you're at right now. 667 00:59:34,282 --> 00:59:36,735 Brilliant, well we will definitely put that in the show notes. 668 00:59:36,735 --> 00:59:40,860 So where can people find that and where can people find out more about you, Keely? 669 00:59:41,423 --> 00:59:45,166 So obviously I'll share the personal boundaries quiz with you. 670 00:59:45,827 --> 00:59:50,401 But equally, I'm everywhere, should I say. 671 00:59:50,401 --> 00:59:56,575 So I'm on LinkedIn as Keely Woolley and also on Facebook. 672 00:59:56,656 --> 01:00:06,354 I also have a podcast called Let's Thrive and Shine Beyond Belief, because at end of day, we're all limitless, aren't we, Hamish? 673 01:00:06,354 --> 01:00:10,487 So it's only that little pearl in our head that stops us. 674 01:00:10,651 --> 01:00:18,570 and on Instagram and TikTok and X otherwise known as Twitter. 675 01:00:18,570 --> 01:00:31,054 Why it was ever changed to X is beyond me but it'll be as meta more with no E for success so as you can imagine always associated to the dragonfly. 676 01:00:32,734 --> 01:00:36,346 Yeah, I think your logo is beautiful and I love the dragonfly. 677 01:00:36,346 --> 01:00:37,077 It's so elegant. 678 01:00:37,077 --> 01:00:37,967 Yeah. 679 01:00:38,328 --> 01:00:39,368 Fabulous. 680 01:00:39,368 --> 01:00:40,589 Thank you. 681 01:00:40,589 --> 01:00:42,160 And then one last question. 682 01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:51,907 I think I know the answer to this, but what did you learn from your awakening and making sense of how you had to change? 683 01:00:51,907 --> 01:00:52,787 Stop. 684 01:00:53,669 --> 01:00:54,969 Slow down. 685 01:00:55,450 --> 01:00:56,751 Be present. 686 01:00:57,212 --> 01:00:58,813 Enjoy the moment. 687 01:00:58,814 --> 01:01:04,289 And most of all, live a happy, very fulfilling life. 688 01:01:04,289 --> 01:01:05,120 Brilliant. 689 01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:05,980 Yep. 690 01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:07,032 Absolutely resonate. 691 01:01:07,032 --> 01:01:08,644 think that is fantastic. 692 01:01:08,644 --> 01:01:09,845 Thank you ever so much, Keely. 693 01:01:09,845 --> 01:01:11,036 That was really, really super. 694 01:01:11,036 --> 01:01:12,287 Thank you for your time. 695 01:01:12,570 --> 01:01:13,298 And thank you. 696 01:01:13,997 --> 01:01:18,357 Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible: Conversations for the Curious. 697 01:01:18,357 --> 01:01:26,997 If these powerful stories of transformation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe and share this show with anyone who you think could do with a dose of inspiration for 698 01:01:26,997 --> 01:01:27,937 their own journey. 699 01:01:27,937 --> 01:01:34,517 I would really appreciate it if you could make any comments on your favourite podcast platform as well, that helps me reach more people. 700 01:01:34,517 --> 01:01:37,977 All the important links and information are in the show notes below. 701 01:01:37,977 --> 01:01:40,712 Thank you very much for listening and catch up with you soon.