1 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,290 Narrator: Welcome to the IT Matters podcast, where we 2 00:00:10,290 --> 00:00:13,920 explore why IT matters and matters pertaining to IT. 3 00:00:16,870 --> 00:00:21,460 Keith Hawkey: Welcome to the IT Matters podcast hosted by 4 00:00:21,550 --> 00:00:26,410 Opkalla. At Opkalla we help IT teams understand the busy 5 00:00:26,410 --> 00:00:30,250 marketplace of technology, strategy, and services with a 6 00:00:30,250 --> 00:00:34,240 data driven approach. On this podcast, we invite technology 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,600 leaders to discuss the challenges facing the modern IT 8 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,290 department. My name is Keith Hawkey, Technology Advisor with 9 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:46,210 Opkalla, and today we're discussing IT leadership and how 10 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:50,740 empathy plays an important role in upgrading your IT team with 11 00:00:50,740 --> 00:00:55,420 two very special guests Jess Levin, Technology Advisor with 12 00:00:55,450 --> 00:00:59,470 Opkalla that has half a decade of experience working alongside 13 00:00:59,470 --> 00:01:04,690 the brightest CIOs and CISOs in the business and Glenn Hasteadt. 14 00:01:05,110 --> 00:01:09,760 Glenn is the IT director for Onslow County and a frequent 15 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,910 speaker and instructor for cultural change in general 16 00:01:12,910 --> 00:01:16,780 leadership. He has a keen passion for leadership topics. 17 00:01:16,810 --> 00:01:22,570 He also hosts a workshop for school and government on how to 18 00:01:22,570 --> 00:01:28,090 build powerful teams. His team has been recognized as a Digital 19 00:01:28,090 --> 00:01:31,450 Counties Top 10 recipient recipient for the past seven 20 00:01:31,450 --> 00:01:38,050 years, and Glenn was recognized as at the NCLGISA IT 21 00:01:38,050 --> 00:01:41,920 professional of the year in 2023. Glenn has served the 22 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,360 public sector since 1998, and brings almost three decades of 23 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,740 experience to the podcast, Glenn and Jess, welcome to the IT 24 00:01:50,740 --> 00:01:51,700 Matters podcast. 25 00:01:51,940 --> 00:01:52,690 Glenn Hasteadt: Thanks for having me. 26 00:01:53,020 --> 00:01:54,010 Jess Levin: Excited to be here. 27 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:59,500 Keith Hawkey: Likewise, first, Glenn, what is the Digital 28 00:01:59,500 --> 00:02:03,400 Counties Top 10 and how does one become recognized? 29 00:02:03,580 --> 00:02:07,180 Glenn Hasteadt: It's published by e.Republic, I believe. It's a 30 00:02:07,180 --> 00:02:11,350 survey that's sent out to every county in the country, they then 31 00:02:11,350 --> 00:02:14,350 take all those surveys back and then rank everybody. It's an 32 00:02:14,350 --> 00:02:18,370 interesting distinction to have, you know, Onslow County, a 33 00:02:18,430 --> 00:02:21,190 little county here on the coast in North Carolina, you know, to 34 00:02:21,190 --> 00:02:24,310 get recognized at a national level, it's pretty big deal for 35 00:02:24,310 --> 00:02:24,580 us. 36 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,590 Keith Hawkey: How many counties generally apply for? 37 00:02:29,430 --> 00:02:31,290 Glenn Hasteadt: I have no idea. You know, I don't know how many 38 00:02:31,290 --> 00:02:34,800 apply. I know, there's 100 counties alone in the state of 39 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,410 North Carolina, I don't know how many there are across the 40 00:02:37,410 --> 00:02:42,000 nation, I have no idea how many apply. But I'm, I know, it's a 41 00:02:42,060 --> 00:02:45,000 pretty big deal. They give the awards out at the county 42 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,570 conference every year that they have, wherever in the country. 43 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,720 Keith Hawkey: It's always nice to have, you know, IT 44 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,020 departments become recognized. I've seen more and more of that 45 00:02:55,710 --> 00:03:01,380 lately, particularly. I think IT for a long time was the unsung 46 00:03:01,380 --> 00:03:08,700 hero, but with the social media and how IT has become so 47 00:03:08,700 --> 00:03:14,190 integral to the business success of the modern organization, more 48 00:03:14,190 --> 00:03:18,690 and more accolades, and public, highlights are becoming more 49 00:03:18,690 --> 00:03:19,230 frequent. 50 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,370 Glenn Hasteadt: Yeah, that's what you guys do, too. Right. As 51 00:03:21,370 --> 00:03:26,140 you know IT companies become more successful and you'll get 52 00:03:26,140 --> 00:03:27,310 that limelight, get that shine. 53 00:03:27,780 --> 00:03:32,100 Jess Levin: On the topic of Keith's point in IT playing a 54 00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:35,520 super integral role in the greater like development of 55 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,300 organizations as a whole, right? One thing that I've noticed just 56 00:03:39,300 --> 00:03:43,050 in my shorter tenure has been in certain organizations, there can 57 00:03:43,050 --> 00:03:46,470 be a divide between the IT vertical versus some of the 58 00:03:46,470 --> 00:03:49,320 business departments, operations, etc. In speaking 59 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,800 with you, it feels like there is a level of camaraderie and 60 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,670 togetherness in the organization as a whole. And I'd love to hear 61 00:03:56,670 --> 00:04:00,330 a little bit more about the role that you play as an IT leader in 62 00:04:01,590 --> 00:04:03,540 creating some of that environment. 63 00:04:03,660 --> 00:04:07,470 Unknown: Without the there's no point in having us, right. If 64 00:04:07,470 --> 00:04:09,990 all those lines of business were here, there's no point to have 65 00:04:09,990 --> 00:04:14,160 IT, you know, doing IT for the sake of IT is fun. But you know, 66 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,060 really doesn't serve a lot of purpose. And so we recognize 67 00:04:18,420 --> 00:04:21,750 that all the almost 30 different lines of business that we 68 00:04:21,750 --> 00:04:24,150 support, you know, they're the ones that are on the pointy end 69 00:04:24,150 --> 00:04:27,210 of the stick that are serving our citizens that are serving 70 00:04:27,210 --> 00:04:30,150 our communities. You know, we don't rescue people from burning 71 00:04:30,150 --> 00:04:32,970 buildings and things like that, but we support the people who do 72 00:04:32,970 --> 00:04:36,180 and that's where we get to make a difference, right? If we can 73 00:04:36,180 --> 00:04:39,450 make their jobs easier, if we can make their jobs possible. If 74 00:04:39,450 --> 00:04:43,500 we can make the integration with the citizen better and easier. 75 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,940 That's where we can win because we don't we don't get to, you 76 00:04:47,940 --> 00:04:51,750 know, serve the community in a direct sense. For the most part 77 00:04:51,780 --> 00:04:57,240 Keith Hawkey: Glenn what do you think is the number one issue 78 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:02,160 holding back IT leaders today? They are looking to upgrade 79 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:08,160 their leadership, upgrade their their capacity to build the most 80 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:14,070 cohesive teams. You know, in your years of experience, what's 81 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:14,910 what's missing? 82 00:05:14,930 --> 00:05:18,950 Glenn Hasteadt: There's a distinct lack of focus on, on, 83 00:05:18,950 --> 00:05:21,860 frankly, on leadership, you know, many of us were promoted 84 00:05:21,890 --> 00:05:25,820 out of very technical roles for being really good technical 85 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,050 people. And this is stuff that we went to school for. And you 86 00:05:30,050 --> 00:05:32,630 know, we have years of experience, but then, when 87 00:05:32,630 --> 00:05:35,450 you're thrust into a leadership position, that's literally an 88 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,830 entirely different job. And if we don't try to learn the skills 89 00:05:39,830 --> 00:05:44,840 that make that job successful, then we can't achieve the best 90 00:05:44,840 --> 00:05:48,470 that we can achieve. And our teams and our teams can't 91 00:05:48,470 --> 00:05:53,720 either. I really feel like an organization's culture is the 92 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,550 most determinant factor for current and future success over 93 00:05:58,580 --> 00:06:02,090 any technology or anything, if you don't have a great culture, 94 00:06:02,090 --> 00:06:04,790 if you don't have an environment where people feel safe, where 95 00:06:04,790 --> 00:06:07,760 they can innovate and do those things, then it doesn't matter 96 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,820 what technology you have, you're only going to be so good. And 97 00:06:10,820 --> 00:06:13,100 you're never going to be able to like you guys, bring great 98 00:06:13,100 --> 00:06:17,390 technology to organizations, if they don't have the wherewithal 99 00:06:17,390 --> 00:06:20,390 to leverage that you're never going to achieve what you 100 00:06:20,390 --> 00:06:22,040 possibly could achieve with all that. 101 00:06:22,070 --> 00:06:24,500 Jess Levin: I guess what would be some advice that you would 102 00:06:24,500 --> 00:06:29,120 give to the newer or more newly emerging technology leaders on 103 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:33,590 how to clearly communicate objectives versus expectations? 104 00:06:33,710 --> 00:06:36,020 I know in speaking with you, that's a framework that you've 105 00:06:36,020 --> 00:06:40,280 followed. And it's, it's worked for you tried and true. Yeah, 106 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:41,330 I'd love to hear your perspective. 107 00:06:41,420 --> 00:06:43,940 Unknown: To me, there's like, five different things you really 108 00:06:43,940 --> 00:06:46,040 have to focus on. Right? Obviously, you got to build 109 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,730 trust first, every relationship is built on trust. Leadership is 110 00:06:49,730 --> 00:06:52,220 nothing but a relationship. But you have to have clear 111 00:06:52,220 --> 00:06:54,890 expectations, you have to have clear objectives. If people 112 00:06:54,890 --> 00:06:57,470 don't know where the finish line is, they can't ever exceed it, 113 00:06:57,500 --> 00:07:00,680 you'll just demotivate them, because they'll never be able to 114 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,260 reach it, you have to communicate three times more 115 00:07:03,260 --> 00:07:07,100 than you think you do. That communication isn't just words 116 00:07:07,100 --> 00:07:11,990 on a paper or spoken word. It's appreciation and correction. 117 00:07:12,020 --> 00:07:17,930 Right? If like, Jess you do a great job, if I, if I appreciate 118 00:07:17,930 --> 00:07:20,600 you, I'm going to appreciate you in front of the whole team. I'm 119 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,600 sure Keith, Keith would do the same thing, right? When you 120 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,490 appreciate someone you appreciate them in front of the 121 00:07:25,490 --> 00:07:28,790 whole team. And that's doing nothing but clarifying 122 00:07:28,790 --> 00:07:31,910 objectives and expectations for people. Yes, you're appreciating 123 00:07:31,910 --> 00:07:35,210 someone. But you're also you're also saying, hey, my 124 00:07:35,210 --> 00:07:38,270 expectations are here, you're way up here. And that's great. 125 00:07:38,270 --> 00:07:42,020 And everybody wants to be appreciated and valued for, you 126 00:07:42,020 --> 00:07:44,780 know what they bring. So if they see me praising you, the rest of 127 00:07:44,780 --> 00:07:47,060 the team is gonna go oh, that, you know, I want to do that, you 128 00:07:47,060 --> 00:07:49,700 know, I want to I want the boss to call me out for that. And a 129 00:07:49,700 --> 00:07:53,240 lot of times, what we do is we focus on correcting people, you 130 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,060 know, still communicating expectations, it's just the 131 00:07:56,060 --> 00:07:59,570 other side of the coin. The problem with that is you're only 132 00:07:59,570 --> 00:08:02,900 correcting one person, you're only clarifying expectations for 133 00:08:02,900 --> 00:08:06,920 one person, you really get more bang for your buck, doing doing 134 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,740 positive reinforcement than you do with negative. And this is 135 00:08:09,740 --> 00:08:12,740 the one thing I try to get across whenever I'm speaking or 136 00:08:12,740 --> 00:08:16,220 teaching is if you look for what people are doing right instead 137 00:08:16,220 --> 00:08:20,000 of what they're doing wrong, you'll have that material to 138 00:08:20,420 --> 00:08:23,360 clarify expectations for everybody in a positive way, as 139 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,860 opposed to a negative way. So I mean, I know when you're working 140 00:08:27,860 --> 00:08:31,490 with companies, relationships, and communication is huge, 141 00:08:31,490 --> 00:08:36,260 right? So how do you how do you get your point across when 142 00:08:36,260 --> 00:08:38,180 you're when you're talking to somebody? 143 00:08:38,210 --> 00:08:40,940 Keith Hawkey: I'll add one aspect to that, you know, since 144 00:08:40,940 --> 00:08:47,810 we, we work heavily with with the leadership roles of IT but 145 00:08:47,810 --> 00:08:51,650 also you know, we're in the trenches with the network admins 146 00:08:51,650 --> 00:08:56,810 and the infrastructure managers and the cybersecurity analysts 147 00:08:57,290 --> 00:09:03,350 and building them up in front of in front of their bosses when 148 00:09:03,350 --> 00:09:07,550 they're doing a great job I've found to to get everyone on 149 00:09:07,550 --> 00:09:10,250 board, get everyone on the same page when they're making a 150 00:09:10,250 --> 00:09:17,120 transformation. So highlighting on calls, how how well, everyone 151 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,870 that's that's in the trenches doing the day to day work, and 152 00:09:20,870 --> 00:09:25,280 the value that they brought, they brought to bring a trend of 153 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,330 bringing a transformation to life bringing a technology 154 00:09:29,330 --> 00:09:31,910 change, that requires a significant amount of effort. 155 00:09:31,940 --> 00:09:34,940 And a lot of times, you know, these these moves can can go 156 00:09:34,940 --> 00:09:38,240 wrong, you know, whether you're deploying a new technology or 157 00:09:38,420 --> 00:09:42,770 you didn't onboard properly. So highlighting the good work of 158 00:09:42,770 --> 00:09:49,430 everyone involved is a key part to our strategy in helping that 159 00:09:49,430 --> 00:09:51,260 team be cohesive. 160 00:09:51,290 --> 00:09:53,210 Jess Levin: One of the important aspects to take into 161 00:09:53,210 --> 00:09:56,000 consideration is on the front end, we really take the time to 162 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,120 understand what is the business objective and what are they 163 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,830 trying to to do, accomplish, what is the goal, right. And so 164 00:10:03,830 --> 00:10:05,210 there's a level of accountability in the 165 00:10:05,210 --> 00:10:08,930 partnership from the technology advisor, Opkalla side and the 166 00:10:08,930 --> 00:10:13,490 customer side. And so I feel like it creates a good, good 167 00:10:13,490 --> 00:10:17,630 dynamic for us to help get them there. But along the way through 168 00:10:17,660 --> 00:10:20,300 the positive reinforcements, like Keith was mentioning, and 169 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,970 understanding what their role is in the part that they play and 170 00:10:22,970 --> 00:10:26,960 recognizing how implementing a new technology may affect them 171 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,420 and the organization at whole. And so I think it's to your 172 00:10:29,420 --> 00:10:31,310 point, there's a lot of communication and moving parts 173 00:10:31,310 --> 00:10:31,760 involved. 174 00:10:33,010 --> 00:10:39,160 Glenn Hasteadt: is I'm caring about the people that I have in 175 00:10:39,250 --> 00:10:47,740 the room that I'm blessed to have on my team, and I spend 176 00:10:47,740 --> 00:10:52,330 time with them on their careers and spend time with them and on 177 00:10:52,330 --> 00:10:56,200 whatever issues they're facing at the time. And, you know, that 178 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,140 goes a long way when when somebody really feels like you 179 00:10:59,140 --> 00:11:02,590 care about them and their problems, as opposed to just 180 00:11:02,590 --> 00:11:06,430 making a sale for your, you know, on your side, or it's just 181 00:11:06,430 --> 00:11:09,850 to get whatever task done on my side, you know. 182 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:11,890 Keith Hawkey: Glenn you make a good point. And I think it all 183 00:11:11,890 --> 00:11:18,340 starts with culture. Yeah, it all begins with why why are we 184 00:11:18,340 --> 00:11:23,350 doing this? Why why are we here? Why are we you know, outside of 185 00:11:23,380 --> 00:11:26,320 making, you know, career and income and supporting our 186 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:31,180 families? Where do our hearts lie? One of the ways that 187 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:37,540 Opkalla engenders a level of compassion within their their 188 00:11:37,540 --> 00:11:42,880 teams is we have Monday morning meetings, and we adjourn every 189 00:11:42,940 --> 00:11:48,820 meeting with recognition of various, you know, everyone 190 00:11:48,820 --> 00:11:53,620 within the company, from, you know, operations, to sales to 191 00:11:53,620 --> 00:11:58,840 leadership of who has gone above and beyond and who has fulfilled 192 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,480 one of our cultural characteristics. There are times 193 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:06,850 that I'm thinking, What can I do this week, to be recognized on 194 00:12:06,850 --> 00:12:11,140 that Monday morning meeting? Who can I help? I think it's brought 195 00:12:11,140 --> 00:12:16,390 about a lot of camaraderie with within our organization. And 196 00:12:16,390 --> 00:12:18,940 it's very practical, the way that's implemented, 197 00:12:19,180 --> 00:12:21,190 Glenn Hasteadt: I love that. We actually start all of our 198 00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:25,210 meetings with kudos. I've been here eight and a half years, 199 00:12:25,210 --> 00:12:28,000 I've never been able to start a monthly meeting without kudos. 200 00:12:28,030 --> 00:12:31,840 We also do something fun too. As you know, I've got a bunch of 201 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:37,090 introverts in the room, and two divisions, and one of the 202 00:12:37,090 --> 00:12:40,780 divisions is GIS, which is geographic information systems. 203 00:12:40,810 --> 00:12:43,570 The whole country is really just scratching the surface of what 204 00:12:43,570 --> 00:12:47,680 GIS can do. And we really want to drive that capability into 205 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:50,560 the organization. And so I needed them to go out and 206 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:54,580 evangelize. Well, that's tough when you got a bunch of people 207 00:12:54,580 --> 00:12:57,340 that really don't want to speak in front of other people. What 208 00:12:57,340 --> 00:13:00,670 we started doing is we started having TED Talks every month, 209 00:13:01,090 --> 00:13:04,780 and somebody different on the team has to give a TED talk. 210 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,100 Everybody in the room has to sign up. And that's 15 minutes 211 00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:11,890 and I didn't care what they spoke about as long as it was 212 00:13:11,890 --> 00:13:14,470 safe at work, you know, so it could have been work related, 213 00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:17,500 not work related, it didn't matter to me. The point was, I 214 00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:21,070 wanted them to get some experience doing public speaking 215 00:13:21,070 --> 00:13:23,470 and things like that. It's been wonderful. We've had like 216 00:13:23,860 --> 00:13:29,080 birdwatching, and origami, and self defense and just wonderful 217 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,130 topics that range, you know, just across the board. And 218 00:13:33,130 --> 00:13:36,850 what's great is, it's topics that everybody's passionate 219 00:13:36,850 --> 00:13:40,900 about. And so when you learn more about that person, now you 220 00:13:40,900 --> 00:13:43,540 can have that closer relationship and things like 221 00:13:43,540 --> 00:13:47,800 that. So it's really brought us even closer together too, which 222 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,400 was kind of cool. But you know, to do that, to have that 223 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,180 environment. First, though, we had a focus, you know, I've been 224 00:13:55,180 --> 00:13:57,880 focusing on years and creating an environment where people feel 225 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,710 safe. Where they feel like they can be their authentic self. And 226 00:14:02,710 --> 00:14:05,230 that way, when they're doing these TED talks, you know, 227 00:14:05,230 --> 00:14:07,210 everybody in the room is cheering for them. They're just 228 00:14:07,210 --> 00:14:09,340 looking for what they're gonna do right, and the only person 229 00:14:09,340 --> 00:14:12,070 that sees what they're doing wrong, is the person that's 230 00:14:12,070 --> 00:14:16,750 giving the speech. And they know that. And that's what empowers 231 00:14:16,750 --> 00:14:19,930 them to do that, I guess. But that's, yeah, that's an 232 00:14:19,930 --> 00:14:22,090 important part of it. And I think you're doing that too, 233 00:14:22,090 --> 00:14:25,900 when you're working with technology teams, you know, when 234 00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:29,380 you call them out for them being great like that you're really 235 00:14:29,380 --> 00:14:32,590 creating a safe place for them to make that technology work. 236 00:14:32,620 --> 00:14:35,320 Jess Levin: I think that's an interesting perspective. Because 237 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,010 the TED talks, they create a level of confidence in in 238 00:14:39,340 --> 00:14:42,280 specifically this narrow that the GIS team going out to 239 00:14:42,340 --> 00:14:45,910 evangelize, right, but it also empowers them to make sure 240 00:14:45,910 --> 00:14:48,730 internally on group meetings that their voices being heard, 241 00:14:48,730 --> 00:14:52,810 and I think it plays a part so much greater than maybe that one 242 00:14:52,810 --> 00:14:57,610 specific scenario. They, you know, think that they're doing 243 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,830 that activity for, I just think it goes a long way. On the topic 244 00:15:02,860 --> 00:15:07,390 of just empathy, building trust, truly caring about your team, on 245 00:15:07,420 --> 00:15:11,470 a personal level, what do you do if somebody is suffering or 246 00:15:11,470 --> 00:15:15,010 experiencing, like personal hardships? How do you create the 247 00:15:15,010 --> 00:15:18,790 space of trust for them to open up to you like, as an IT leader, 248 00:15:18,820 --> 00:15:20,860 what are some of your tactics in handling that. 249 00:15:20,890 --> 00:15:22,750 Glenn Hasteadt: That's probably one of the most important things 250 00:15:22,750 --> 00:15:26,530 you can do. You know, it's easy to celebrate when somebody's kid 251 00:15:26,530 --> 00:15:31,060 wins an award at school or whatever. But when people are 252 00:15:31,060 --> 00:15:35,380 going through health issues, or whatever it is, you know, 253 00:15:35,380 --> 00:15:38,500 difficulties in life, those valleys in life that we all 254 00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:44,170 experience. You know, in my history, when somebody had 255 00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:47,500 anything like that going on, everybody would kind of walk 256 00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:50,050 around them on eggshells for a couple of weeks, you know, that 257 00:15:50,050 --> 00:15:52,510 doesn't help them, you know, that doesn't help you, that 258 00:15:52,510 --> 00:15:54,880 doesn't help them, that doesn't help the team. You know when 259 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,600 somebody has a problem, I'm there, and they know that I'm 260 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,630 there with them. And I'm going to go through it with them, just 261 00:16:01,630 --> 00:16:05,920 like, just like a friend would just like a family member would, 262 00:16:06,580 --> 00:16:09,640 I'm going to be there with them as close as they want me to be 263 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:14,740 or they allow me to be. But they do know that I care about them. 264 00:16:14,830 --> 00:16:19,480 And that I really, I'm really there just for them. The other 265 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,630 side of that is you're able to be there for them, that 266 00:16:22,630 --> 00:16:26,320 relationship that you have with that person grows exponentially 267 00:16:26,350 --> 00:16:30,310 more so than if you were to just celebrate with them. Right? If 268 00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:34,690 you say Keith was going through a hardship, and I leaned into 269 00:16:34,690 --> 00:16:39,250 that and said, Hey, buddy, I'm here with you. I'm going through 270 00:16:39,250 --> 00:16:43,390 this with you, you know, and, and I check in with him on, you 271 00:16:43,390 --> 00:16:46,180 know, time to time and I, you know, we're not just there to 272 00:16:46,180 --> 00:16:48,970 listen, hey, I'm just here to listen, I'm not going to try to 273 00:16:48,970 --> 00:16:53,950 fix it, you need to talk up here. And if I'm able to be 274 00:16:53,950 --> 00:16:59,470 there with him, and he feels that authenticity of me really 275 00:16:59,470 --> 00:17:02,500 being there, we're gonna have a much tighter relationship when 276 00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:05,380 we're done. I mean, wouldn't you say that Keith, if I was to lean 277 00:17:05,380 --> 00:17:06,340 into something like that? 278 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,890 Keith Hawkey: Absolutely. And it reminds me of why, why we, why 279 00:17:11,890 --> 00:17:19,690 we stick with companies and how loyalty is is is inculcated, you 280 00:17:19,690 --> 00:17:24,940 know, the number one reason that people leave companies is 281 00:17:24,940 --> 00:17:27,670 because they don't feel a connection with the leadership 282 00:17:27,670 --> 00:17:29,620 and the people they work with, you know, there's obviously 283 00:17:29,620 --> 00:17:34,210 money is obviously, you know, perhaps the, you know, the brand 284 00:17:34,210 --> 00:17:37,210 of the company, who they are and how that matches onto your 285 00:17:37,210 --> 00:17:42,730 identity. But you'll you'll come across people and professionals 286 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:47,830 in jobs that, you know, they could go find something that 287 00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:53,890 pays them more, they could find a company that's more reputable, 288 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,440 reputable in a way, but they stay there because of the 289 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,130 relationships they've built with their colleagues, maybe maybe 290 00:18:00,130 --> 00:18:04,930 leadership. And in our world, especially a couple of years 291 00:18:04,930 --> 00:18:11,260 ago, when COVID was in its full throes, it seemed attracting and 292 00:18:11,290 --> 00:18:18,010 retaining talent was incredibly difficult. You know, you could 293 00:18:18,190 --> 00:18:22,990 get a 15% pay raise every six months if you change jobs during 294 00:18:22,990 --> 00:18:26,770 that time. So the you know, the way that IT leaders that I've 295 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:34,420 worked with, leaned in on establishing that rapport and 296 00:18:34,420 --> 00:18:38,740 watering the plant every day. It's it is a relationship 297 00:18:38,740 --> 00:18:42,430 relationships, take work. I'm married. So I know a little bit 298 00:18:42,430 --> 00:18:48,460 about this. And, you know, treating the relationship as 299 00:18:48,460 --> 00:18:52,780 important as the job they're doing. You know, it keeps people 300 00:18:52,780 --> 00:18:57,310 around, keeps people engaged. And they'll go the extra mile, 301 00:18:57,340 --> 00:19:02,230 not because they need to impress somebody, but but because they 302 00:19:02,260 --> 00:19:06,820 care about your relationship. They care. You know, they'll 303 00:19:06,820 --> 00:19:09,970 care about your success Glenn, as a leader. They'll want you to 304 00:19:09,970 --> 00:19:14,950 look good, because you've reached out and made sure that 305 00:19:15,070 --> 00:19:16,060 you know, they care. 306 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:18,070 Glenn Hasteadt: I mean, I think you just made a great point. You 307 00:19:18,070 --> 00:19:22,780 know, we're intentional about our relationships and our 308 00:19:22,780 --> 00:19:26,230 marriage, kids, friends, you know, we spend time on those. 309 00:19:26,890 --> 00:19:31,240 We're here, we're at work more than we're home. Why wouldn't we 310 00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:34,360 be more intentional about those relationships? Why wouldn't we 311 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:39,550 be more lean into those relationships more? I think a 312 00:19:39,550 --> 00:19:43,420 lot of leaders, you know, we've been told, you need to be a 313 00:19:43,420 --> 00:19:47,950 leader and not a friend. Okay, you know, we still need to care 314 00:19:47,950 --> 00:19:52,270 about people. We still you know, yes, there's a mission there's 315 00:19:52,270 --> 00:19:56,230 job that we have to do and, and those management tasks are 316 00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:59,260 important but leadership tasks are really built on 317 00:19:59,470 --> 00:20:03,010 relationships and trust and things like that. I can't build 318 00:20:03,010 --> 00:20:07,090 an environment in this room, if people don't trust me and my 319 00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:09,880 motives, I can't build an environment in this room, if 320 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,240 people don't feel supported, like they can make a mistake and 321 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,530 actually fail forward. I don't get all the benefits of the team 322 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,950 if they don't feel safe. I'm sure if you ever worked anywhere 323 00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:24,640 where it was relatively toxic, I mean, what did you do, you kept 324 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,610 your head down, you did what you were told and that was it. 325 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,300 Meanwhile, if you work somewhere where you feel safe, where you 326 00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:34,330 feel like you can contribute, where you can fail forward, well 327 00:20:34,330 --> 00:20:37,390 now the sky's the limit, now I get access to all of your skills 328 00:20:37,390 --> 00:20:40,930 and abilities and the differences that make you you. 329 00:20:41,410 --> 00:20:46,210 And you get to leverage them towards our mission. And I'm 330 00:20:46,210 --> 00:20:49,690 sure you guys see that quite a bit. When you go from place to 331 00:20:49,690 --> 00:20:53,950 place, there's different people everywhere you go. And it's a 332 00:20:53,980 --> 00:20:56,980 matter of how they can leverage those skills and abilities. 333 00:20:56,980 --> 00:20:57,280 Right? 334 00:20:57,310 --> 00:20:59,170 Jess Levin: Yeah, I think it helps to foster innovation 335 00:20:59,170 --> 00:21:03,880 across the team too. When you feel safe, you feel more open to 336 00:21:04,330 --> 00:21:08,260 sharing the ideas that maybe you wouldn't necessarily if you 337 00:21:08,290 --> 00:21:10,480 weren't super comfortable. I know especially for the more 338 00:21:10,540 --> 00:21:14,440 introverted folks, I think it benefits, it does so much more 339 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,800 than just build their personal confidence, I think it creates, 340 00:21:19,210 --> 00:21:22,660 again, a space for innovation, which is going to impact the 341 00:21:22,660 --> 00:21:27,340 team, the organization. I had a question regarding the time 342 00:21:27,340 --> 00:21:33,040 management or the aspect of being an IT leader, and you 343 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,900 invest so much time and resources and energy into 344 00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:39,970 creating these strong relationships and building the 345 00:21:39,970 --> 00:21:43,390 culture and building trust amongst the team. Right? And do 346 00:21:43,390 --> 00:21:48,070 you feel like in the beginning, you had to spend more time 347 00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:51,610 creating a framework that worked and now it's kind of a well 348 00:21:51,610 --> 00:21:55,300 oiled machine? And how do you sort of manage that with the 349 00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:58,840 tactical responsibilities that come with IT leadership as well? 350 00:21:58,870 --> 00:22:01,930 Glenn Hasteadt: Yeah I mean, as technical people we're familiar 351 00:22:01,930 --> 00:22:06,790 with keeping them keeping the lights on, you know, keeping 352 00:22:06,790 --> 00:22:09,580 things running and keeping things safe, right. And that 353 00:22:09,610 --> 00:22:11,860 that part, you know, we don't have to really think about 354 00:22:11,860 --> 00:22:16,690 anymore. But creating this culture in here, you know, it's 355 00:22:16,690 --> 00:22:19,660 conceptually easy to, you know, actually just care about people 356 00:22:19,660 --> 00:22:24,310 and build trust. And it sounds easy, but actually putting your 357 00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:27,670 feet there every minute, being intentional about that every 358 00:22:27,670 --> 00:22:31,030 minute of every day is really hard. I had notes on my desk, 359 00:22:31,540 --> 00:22:34,630 like my first six to nine months, I had notes on my desk, 360 00:22:34,690 --> 00:22:39,010 with my culture goals. You know, this is what I want to this is 361 00:22:39,010 --> 00:22:41,650 the kind of culture that I'm trying to create. And don't 362 00:22:41,650 --> 00:22:45,880 forget this. And don't forget that. And my desk was literally 363 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,320 covered with post it notes, reminding me what to do. And I 364 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,990 would go out and we'd be doing stuff. And I'd come back to my 365 00:22:52,990 --> 00:22:58,090 desk, and oh, yeah, I go back out. And, you know, that was 366 00:22:58,090 --> 00:23:02,650 really hard for about six to nine months. But frankly, after 367 00:23:02,650 --> 00:23:05,980 that, it just became who I was. And the joy of it is it's really 368 00:23:05,980 --> 00:23:10,420 hard in the beginning. But now eight and a half years later, it 369 00:23:10,420 --> 00:23:14,230 gets exponentially easier, right? When we onboard people, I 370 00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:17,860 don't have to go through the effort to get them integrated 371 00:23:17,860 --> 00:23:21,370 into our culture. The team does it, you know, just it just 372 00:23:21,370 --> 00:23:25,720 happens. And actually, it's kind of fun when we hire new people 373 00:23:27,310 --> 00:23:30,490 they, they normally they'll be like, Oh, this is just, you 374 00:23:30,490 --> 00:23:34,060 know, everybody's been nice to me, because I'm new, you know, 375 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,240 and it's fun, because I get to watch them and like, you know, 376 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,600 however long it takes two, three months, and they go, Oh, no, 377 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:45,100 this is how these people are. And yeah, it's just to me, it's 378 00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:49,030 fun to watch that light bulb go on. Yeah, they've been waiting 379 00:23:49,030 --> 00:23:51,760 for the other shoe to drop for two or three weeks or whatever 380 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,510 it is. And then then they like, No, this is it. This is how 381 00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:57,760 these people are and it's just it's wonderful. 382 00:23:57,790 --> 00:23:59,530 Keith Hawkey: Really makes it easy to go into work. 383 00:23:59,590 --> 00:24:02,050 Glenn Hasteadt: Oh, I love it. Yeah. And that's what a great 384 00:24:02,050 --> 00:24:05,950 way to to think about your culture. Right? Your your 385 00:24:05,950 --> 00:24:09,160 culture of your organization is how you think Sunday night with 386 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,950 Monday coming. And it's not just you, right? It's how it's the 387 00:24:11,950 --> 00:24:14,950 people on the team. How do they think about going in Monday 388 00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:18,700 morning, Sunday night? Are they dreading it? Are they ambivalent 389 00:24:18,730 --> 00:24:23,320 or are they excited? You know, I had a lady that was in the team. 390 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,110 She was out for Thanksgiving with family and stuff. She's 391 00:24:26,110 --> 00:24:28,330 like, I couldn't wait to get back to work. That's, that's 392 00:24:28,330 --> 00:24:29,350 awesome. Yeah. 393 00:24:30,350 --> 00:24:35,570 Keith Hawkey: What are your thoughts on the the youth coming 394 00:24:35,570 --> 00:24:41,360 through the IT department today? Are you you know, I think that 395 00:24:41,390 --> 00:24:49,190 bring humanity into leadership is universal. However, you know, 396 00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:54,230 from a management standpoint and leadership standpoint, is there 397 00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:58,820 any difference when you're working to build rapport and to 398 00:24:58,820 --> 00:25:03,350 get the most out of some of the younger generation that are 399 00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:08,180 coming through IT, compared to those that have been around for 400 00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:11,960 a couple of decades, personality differences that you're noticing 401 00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:15,500 or any tactics that are more effective? 402 00:25:15,540 --> 00:25:17,910 Glenn Hasteadt: People are people, right? You want to feel 403 00:25:17,910 --> 00:25:21,210 cared for, you want to feel like you're valued, you want to feel 404 00:25:21,210 --> 00:25:24,480 like you matter. And that it's important that it's you and not 405 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:29,910 somebody else in that chair. Right. I think, you know, we got 406 00:25:29,910 --> 00:25:32,790 people at all different stages of their career here are people 407 00:25:32,790 --> 00:25:35,790 that are ready to retire, people that still have a few years and 408 00:25:35,790 --> 00:25:38,640 people that are younger than my youngest, you know, just 409 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,090 starting out their career. To me, what's important is, well, 410 00:25:42,090 --> 00:25:44,190 you got to, you got to communicate with everybody a 411 00:25:44,190 --> 00:25:46,590 little differently, you know, the communication is a little 412 00:25:46,590 --> 00:25:49,680 different, but spending time with them, you know, in my 413 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,030 office and understanding what their goals are, what their 414 00:25:54,060 --> 00:25:57,330 challenges are, where they need help, where they, you know, 415 00:25:57,330 --> 00:26:00,420 where they see themselves exceeding, you know, and things 416 00:26:00,420 --> 00:26:06,750 like that is really helpful. I actually especially take a 417 00:26:06,750 --> 00:26:12,030 little more time with the younger staff coming in, because 418 00:26:12,030 --> 00:26:15,510 they're not thinking for the most part of their career and 419 00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:20,820 their career path. Nobody's ever asked them what they want their 420 00:26:20,850 --> 00:26:23,850 business card to say when they retire. You know, nobody's ever 421 00:26:23,850 --> 00:26:27,930 asked them what they want their career to look like in five or 422 00:26:27,930 --> 00:26:31,350 10 years. And so they have to really spend a lot of time 423 00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:35,820 thinking about that. But just asking that question and getting 424 00:26:35,820 --> 00:26:38,790 them to think about that, and making sure they know that it's 425 00:26:38,790 --> 00:26:42,720 important to you is huge. And that's true of people in the 426 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,420 middle of their career as well. Maybe nobody's ever asked them 427 00:26:45,420 --> 00:26:47,880 their entire career, and they've been in the industry for 20 428 00:26:47,910 --> 00:26:50,430 years, just spending that time with them, hey, where do you 429 00:26:50,430 --> 00:26:54,900 want to go? And let's see how we can get you there. Give me a 430 00:26:54,900 --> 00:26:58,140 project that that lines up with that and things like that. So 431 00:26:58,140 --> 00:27:01,170 you can get some experience and see if that's really what you 432 00:27:01,170 --> 00:27:04,620 want to do. I know anybody on my team says they want to go into 433 00:27:04,620 --> 00:27:08,100 leadership. I mean, they they buckle up, because they know 434 00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:11,790 it's coming. And, you know, we're reading books, and we're 435 00:27:11,790 --> 00:27:15,480 talking about them. And, you know, we're giving the behind 436 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,240 the scenes. You know, why did I say this a certain way, why did 437 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,290 I write this email like that. And this was my goal. And that 438 00:27:22,290 --> 00:27:26,130 kind of I can peek behind the curtain, so to speak, and they 439 00:27:26,130 --> 00:27:29,700 can understand, you know, how much effort is really put into 440 00:27:29,700 --> 00:27:33,930 it. And they can see if that's what they really want to do. But 441 00:27:33,930 --> 00:27:36,630 I think that's really what it is, is understanding. Just like 442 00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:39,300 you guys, when you're working with, if you're working with a 443 00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:43,470 technology leader, what they say they want sometimes isn't what 444 00:27:43,470 --> 00:27:47,340 their goals really are, right? You have to kind of discover the 445 00:27:47,340 --> 00:27:49,410 best way to solve to solve that problem, right? 446 00:27:49,810 --> 00:27:51,970 Jess Levin: And that's hard to do if there's not trust in the 447 00:27:51,970 --> 00:27:55,060 relationship. So I feel like it's a full circle conversation, 448 00:27:55,060 --> 00:28:01,390 right? There's investments into that. And then it creates a nice 449 00:28:01,420 --> 00:28:07,720 cohesive relationship for us to take a seat, you know, in the 450 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,440 front seat with them and help them really roadmap like you 451 00:28:11,470 --> 00:28:14,740 said, you want this but maybe this is actually what you want 452 00:28:14,740 --> 00:28:16,510 playing a part in that is special. 453 00:28:16,930 --> 00:28:21,910 Keith Hawkey: Vulnerability plays a pretty key part in 454 00:28:21,910 --> 00:28:25,780 relationship building. You know, I think I think in our industry, 455 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:32,320 you run across a lot of people that certainly like to have the 456 00:28:32,350 --> 00:28:35,590 appearance that they know everything. That they can solve 457 00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:39,550 all of your problems. That doesn't bring about trust, from 458 00:28:39,550 --> 00:28:43,510 from my experience, you know, I think leading with some level of 459 00:28:43,540 --> 00:28:49,090 vulnerability, of humanity, you know, humility in a way and 460 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:55,030 coming across in a manner that, look, there are ways that you 461 00:28:55,030 --> 00:28:58,510 might be able to help but you're still human. And if you don't 462 00:28:58,510 --> 00:29:03,580 know, the answers to questions, you want to demonstrate that 463 00:29:03,580 --> 00:29:07,000 you'll go find the answers. You don't you don't have to be an 464 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,030 expert in everything. Leading with humility is a way that I've 465 00:29:10,090 --> 00:29:12,910 think personally, I've been able to form some of my closest 466 00:29:12,910 --> 00:29:19,330 relationships is they've gotten to know me as a flawed person, 467 00:29:19,540 --> 00:29:23,530 as a flawed individual. Whoever, whatever IT leader that I'm 468 00:29:23,530 --> 00:29:27,430 working with, if you lead this way, they will reciprocate and 469 00:29:27,940 --> 00:29:33,490 they will open up in that manner. So yeah, I'd say leading 470 00:29:33,490 --> 00:29:37,600 with humility has certainly been one of my most powerful 471 00:29:37,660 --> 00:29:41,470 strategies to bring about a deep rapport. 472 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,910 Glenn Hasteadt: Yeah because I told my team if I got the best 473 00:29:43,910 --> 00:29:49,700 idea in the room, we're messing up. I mean, because, you know, 474 00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:52,850 they're, they're amazing. I got the best team in the state. I 475 00:29:52,850 --> 00:29:55,700 mean, they're just fantastic and got the awards to prove it. 476 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,110 That's right. And I want I need to get them like to address this 477 00:30:00,110 --> 00:30:02,510 point, they need to feel safe, and they need to have that 478 00:30:02,510 --> 00:30:05,780 trust. That's one mistake I think a lot of leaders make is 479 00:30:05,810 --> 00:30:08,570 when they're promoted, now, they feel like they have to have all 480 00:30:08,570 --> 00:30:11,330 the answers, they have to be the best in the room they have to. 481 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,170 And that's not true. Otherwise, why would you have the team? You 482 00:30:15,170 --> 00:30:18,230 know, if you could do it all, then why do you have a team, you 483 00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:21,980 have that team for the different points of view and, and, and the 484 00:30:21,980 --> 00:30:24,770 different abilities that they bring, it's not just a pair of 485 00:30:24,770 --> 00:30:30,830 hands, to do your ideas, you know, and, and when I came here, 486 00:30:30,830 --> 00:30:35,630 and I was able to say, Hey, this is what I like, the way I would 487 00:30:35,690 --> 00:30:39,620 bring them into that is, you know, a lot of times people are 488 00:30:39,620 --> 00:30:43,040 afraid to disagree with the boss. I would have to give them 489 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,760 kind of permission. So I would say, Hey, I think this tells me 490 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:51,260 where this is wrong. Or tell me where this goes bad. And so I'm 491 00:30:51,260 --> 00:30:54,080 giving them the permission then to disagree with me. And that's 492 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,430 what started it. Now, I'm always wrong. You know, now, they 493 00:30:58,430 --> 00:31:00,950 always have, there's always a better idea in the room, which 494 00:31:00,950 --> 00:31:05,540 is wonderful, which is exactly why I have everyone there. And 495 00:31:05,540 --> 00:31:08,300 you know, I start with this, and then they build on it. And then 496 00:31:08,300 --> 00:31:12,020 someone else builds on that inside innovation that just was 497 00:31:12,020 --> 00:31:16,280 talking about earlier, just kind of steamrolls until we have 498 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,810 something that's really, really cool. 499 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,610 Jess Levin: You're able to storytell specific engagements, 500 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:27,140 or just like action items that you created that have actually 501 00:31:27,140 --> 00:31:32,120 developed your team to, to grow and meet the objectives that you 502 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,540 were you were looking for, right like to I'm sure a lot of 503 00:31:35,540 --> 00:31:38,210 leaders say I want to create a space of innovation, right? 504 00:31:38,210 --> 00:31:43,550 That's the goal. But in you saying you open up conversations 505 00:31:43,550 --> 00:31:46,730 to make them feel comfortable to tell you how you're wrong or 506 00:31:46,730 --> 00:31:48,800 tell you how things could feel differently. Like that's that's 507 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,710 action. And I feel like that's that's the difference maybe that 508 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,830 some leaders don't have or could be looking for to fill that gap. 509 00:31:54,830 --> 00:31:58,070 So I think your perspective is, is really, really cool and 510 00:31:58,220 --> 00:32:01,130 hopefully it will help a lot of people who choose to listen. 511 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:02,980 Glenn Hasteadt: When a lot of people talk about culture 512 00:32:02,980 --> 00:32:06,730 change, when I hear leaders talk to me about culture change. A 513 00:32:06,730 --> 00:32:10,090 lot of times they talk about it as how they want the team to 514 00:32:10,090 --> 00:32:16,150 change. And that's not how it works, right? The culture in the 515 00:32:16,150 --> 00:32:22,120 room is a reaction to me. Right? It's they react to the leader, 516 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,500 for the most part. And if I see something that I don't like in 517 00:32:26,530 --> 00:32:29,110 the first place, I need to look in the mirror and say, What am I 518 00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:33,700 doing that's allowing or promoting that behavior? And 519 00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:39,760 then then I can address it. And that perspective of I'm the 520 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:44,860 first person that needs to change is essential to creating 521 00:32:44,860 --> 00:32:49,960 this environment. And like I talked about changing culture, I 522 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,970 speak quite a bit. And I'll do it with people on my team in the 523 00:32:54,970 --> 00:32:59,980 room. Yeah, so if I if I wasn't saying what I what I what I 524 00:32:59,980 --> 00:33:03,220 actually do, that would be incredibly disruptive. 525 00:33:02,670 --> 00:33:06,517 Keith Hawkey: But the change begins with the leader, not the 526 00:33:06,601 --> 00:33:11,870 other way around. I think that is a perfect message to leave on 527 00:33:11,953 --> 00:33:16,303 here as we conclude our conversation. Glenn, how can 528 00:33:16,386 --> 00:33:21,321 people find you if we have our listeners that would like to 529 00:33:21,405 --> 00:33:26,340 bounce some ideas off of you or learn from your experience? 530 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,830 Glenn Hasteadt: I'm really active on LinkedIn. There's not 531 00:33:30,830 --> 00:33:37,130 too many Hasteadts on LinkedIn, or any I don't think so I'm 532 00:33:37,130 --> 00:33:39,680 really active on LinkedIn. And you know, if you want to reach 533 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,610 out if you need, want me to come talk to your group, or talk at 534 00:33:43,610 --> 00:33:47,120 your conference, that would be powerincaring.com, 535 00:33:47,810 --> 00:33:53,990 powerincaring.com. And that's a great way to get in touch with 536 00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:54,650 me there too. 537 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,830 Keith Hawkey: Thank you, Glenn and Jess for hopping on the IT 538 00:33:58,830 --> 00:34:02,400 Matters podcast. We will include how to get in contact with Glenn 539 00:34:02,430 --> 00:34:07,170 in the show notes. We appreciate you tuning in to the IT Matters 540 00:34:07,170 --> 00:34:10,980 Podcast. For support in assessing your technology needs, 541 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,770 please book a call with one of our technology advisors at 542 00:34:13,830 --> 00:34:18,090 opkalla.com. And if you found this episode helpful, we'd love 543 00:34:18,090 --> 00:34:22,650 it if you share the podcast with someone who you think might gain 544 00:34:22,650 --> 00:34:27,120 value from it, and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or rate 545 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,540 us on Spotify. Take care everyone, we'll see you next 546 00:34:30,540 --> 00:34:30,810 time. 547 00:34:30,780 --> 00:34:33,700 Narrator: Thanks for listening. The IT Matters Podcast is 548 00:34:33,762 --> 00:34:36,931 produced by Opkalla, an IT advisory firm that helps 549 00:34:36,993 --> 00:34:40,845 businesses navigate the vast and complex IT marketplace. Learn 550 00:34:40,907 --> 00:34:43,020 more about Opkalla at opkalla.com.