Unknown: I had to kill Phil's ego one time.
This we had an ego. This was
a small one, but he he had Jack Kemp on one time. And when he
was running with Bob Dole, and I was on the phone while they're
trying to get jack, and they go, now, Jack, this is the Phil
Valentine show. It's nationwide, and all sudden, here Jack Kemp
go, and who is it? I said, Phil, Valentine. Phil, who Valentine?
Like Valentine's Day? And where he's out of well, he's pretty
much national, okay, later on in the interview, as he's talking
to Phil, all of a sudden, when Phil asked him a question. Jack,
of course, starts the answer, Well, Phil, it's like you say on
your show. And he said, I listen to you dailies, and love the
show. Oh, my God.
Welcome to a podcast about music and entertainment before it all
goes down the disposal. This is circling the drain.
Welcome back to circling the drain, the podcast that wants to
keep the entertainment the music world, keep it from going down
the garbage disposal as we say, Hi, my name is John E Bozeman,
but you know me better as Johnny B, along with Jay Harper, my co
host. Hey, Johnny B, how you doing my brother?
Hey, always doing great. What I'm with you
and brother, Chris. Chris,
yes, I'm Chris. I'll be brother Chris. Brother Chris, I'll be
brother Chris slash Jim.
Jim McCarthy, no man, you're just so used to having producers
named Chris. I am. That's
where it came from. Chris, whatever you want me to be.
Yeah. Brother Jim McCarthy here, dude, that's happened to me too.
Just call me Joe Biden.
But anyway, welcome to circling the drain podcast where we talk
about everything entertainment, everything music. But today we
wanted to talk about some of our favorite stories. And I know you
guys will be interested in it too, because radio is a very
interesting business.
We do that in lieu of the pay yes experiences,
and it's getting more interesting, but for totally
different reasons.
Oh, yeah, that's the truth. It's become, well, it's become so
corporate. It used to be. I remember the days in radio. It
was not unlikely, like for myself. I'll talk about myself
where I might have, you know, a cigarette while I'm on the air
with all the equipment there absolutely have a cigarette,
maybe a pizza over here. You know, there might be a girl in
the room and she may have clothes or may not, right? Those
were the days. I mean, that was what radio was like back in
those days. I it was pretty
wild. It was as close to being a rock star as one could possibly
get without the money, that's right,
and the glory,
you know? And it was back when being a jock on the air was kind
of like a dance, a ballet. I mean, you had all this different
gear that you no longer use. You had turntables going cart
machine. You had cart machines. And I know people, there are
those. I will mention cart machines to folks, and they,
they got the puzzled look, those same eight track, yeah. I mean,
that's what people can relate to. It's kind of like a one
track, eight track, exactly. You know, it's what a little but
anyway, you'd have several of those, you'd have a reel to
reel, perhaps, going and keeping all of that in sync. And it was,
it was such a talent, you know, and you had a, you know, what?
The console in front of you? Of course, today it's all slide
pods, but back in the day, yeah, income, so, yeah, now everything
is in a computer, yes, and all you do is key the mic and the
computer does everything else. And in some respects, it's kind
of cool. But yes, I do miss the the dance, if you will.
And we also had the Q burn too. Remember that you'd be playing
vinyl, and had been played so much that at the front of it
you'd start the record,
that'd be get to where you would hear those songs on other
stations. Yes, and it didn't sound right because it didn't
have the Cuber Exactly, exactly,
but where's the Q burn at man, wait a minute. It was very
interesting too. There was an artist, Deborah Allen, we both.
She's an artist here in Nashville, and she had a big hit
called baby. I
lied. 1983 Yes. Got to number four. Yes, it
did. And it crossed over to see their radio guy. But it also
crossed over to pop too. And I took a chance on the record and
I got. But because we had to answer to Nashville, I was
working in Birmingham at the time, and I had to answer to
Nashville, and they were really on me. They said, Why are you
going with this record? She's unknown, really. And I said, I'm
telling you, this record is going to be hit. And thank God
it was, because otherwise, that's what really been hot
water.
She was on RCA Records at the time. That certainly helped.
When she was gorgeous. Oh, that too. And a fine songwriter. I
mean, a great singer, right? She was married to Ray Van Hoy at
the time. She was also a fine songwriter, yeah, so you know,
she had some street cred, certainly from a songwriter,
from a musician standpoint, yes, she did the radio people, a lot
of radio people didn't know who she was, or didn't think she was
going to go anywhere, but I did. And what really drove me crazy
about that record was that at the end, as it's fading out, she
hits this great high note. And I would, I would not talk until
she hit that high note. I mean, I would even crank up the volume
because I thought, how stupid. Why did they not, you know? Why
did they not leave, leave that in there, then fade out after
that. But anyway, that's radio for you. Yeah,
all those fun things,
yeah. I mean, I remember, you know, Deborah Allen came to the
station I was working at at the time with her, with her RCA rep.
Jack Weston was the RCA guy. I always wonder what happened to
Jack, but he was a good dude anyway, yeah, you know, they
came we, you know, we did the lunch thing and all that. And,
you know, she, she's out there again now. She just released new
stuff. Oh yeah, yeah. And she's got a big show coming up in
Franklin,
yeah, she does, which is right here in our Yeah, backyard, so
to speak, Franklin theater, I think,
yeah, yeah, correct. So she's still out there doing her thing.
Yeah,
she's really good. But I just remember stuff like that. I also
remember, I don't know if you guys ever went through this or
not, but I'm on the air. It was in Nashville, and I was doing
the midday show, and it was Steve Warner had just come out,
and I think he had a song. I think it was, I forget the song
now, but anyway, I didn't know a lot about Steve Warner, and all
of a sudden, I'm told by the music director, oh, my God,
you're supposed to do an interview with Steve Warner. And
I said, really? I said, when she goes, now I know nothing about
Steve Warner, and she goes, Well, we're just gonna have to
wing it. And I got to meet Steve after it's very interesting,
because I've met more country artists after doing talk radio
than I did music radio. And I met Steve, and I said, Man, I
don't and he didn't remember the interview, but I said I always
felt embarrassed because I said I didn't know a lot about you.
The only thing I knew was that he had he shared a birthday with
Barbara Mandrell, which is Christmas day. That's right,
Christmas. And so I went with that and started there, and just
let him kind
of Steve's the kind of guy, you know, you say, Hey, how you
doing? And he'll talk for 30 minutes. Oh, he was great, yeah.
I mean, I first met him when I was working radio, and he played
a nightclub in town, and at the time, I mean, you know, he was
on RCA, and he had some hits, lonely women make good lovers,
so, yeah, Midnight fire and which were all pretty good
tunes, but didn't really know much about him either. But then
realized, when I saw him in concert for the first time that
he could just pick the hell out of a guitar. He's just a
fantastic guitarist. And I remember, after the she was
standing at the bar, and I went up, you know, introduced myself
with so and so radio, man, I didn't realize, God, what a
great guitar player you are. Blah, blah, blah. Well, it was
years, a few years later, when I worked for MCA, and he was on
MCA at the at that time, yeah, and he remembered me, either
that or he was real good BS or, you know, I had mentioned Hey
man, you know, I saw you at this bar, and he said he remembered
me, but Yeah, Steve got to be one of those guys that that I
kind of got to know a bit during the MCA Records days. And you're
right. I mean, not a and what's so disgusting. I mean, Steve's
like 70 now or so, and he still looks like he's 12. Yeah, he
does. He's got, he's always been young, young looking. You know,
when
you're right about his playing. It was very interesting, because
when I when I worked with Phil Valentine on talk radio, it was
around Christmas, and I was playing Christmas bumpers, and I
was playing one by Steve, and to me, and I said it on the air. I
said, Man, this hauntingly sounds like Chet Atkins, who had
passed away by that time, Steve called into the show and he
said, Wow. He said, I. Was sitting in traffic, and he said,
I really shuttered, because when Johnny said that, it reminded
him of Chet Atkins. He said, When I played that song in the
studio, I'm playing a Chet Atkins. I'm playing chet's
guitar in that on that tune. And so that was pretty
wild, yeah. I mean, Chet Atkins was a mentor of Warner's, and I
think produced some of Steve stuff when he was on our scene.
Yeah,
he did. And you're talking about memory, one of the best people
I've ever talked to would talk about a great memory, believe it
or not, was Donald Trump Jr. He was calling in to do an
interview with Phil. It wasn't his first, but it'd been a
couple of years, and I'm answering the hotline, and I get
on it, and he said, Johnny B How you doing? That's cool. And I
went, Man, how do you remember me? And he goes, I remember
everything. He said. I remember what we talked about last time,
and he told me. And I went, my gosh, this guy is phenomenal. So
you talk about a memory that dude that was impressive. I've
never, I've never met anybody like that, because I've heard a
lot of BS with talk radio. In fact, I felt bad because I I had
to kill Phil's ego one time.
This way on an ego. This was
small one, but he he had Jack Kemp on one time, and when he
was running with Bob Dole, and I was on the phone while they're
trying to get Jack. And this is how it went. On the phone, you
know, Jack, they're talking to Jack, and they go, now, Jack,
this is the Phil Valentine show. It's nationwide, and, you know
they this is when we were sending all sudden. Here Jack
Kemp go. And who is it? I said, Phil Valentine. Phil, who
Valentine? Like Valentine's Day? And where he's out of, well,
he's pretty much national, okay, later on in the interview, as
he's talking to Phil, all of a sudden, when Phil asked him a
question, Jack, of course, starts the answer, Well, Phil,
it's like you say on your show. And he said, I listen to you
daily. He said, love the show. Oh, my God. I hate,
man, happened to me with Alan thick? Really? Remember Alan? I
remember America's dad, yes. So he, actually, he wasn't doing an
interview with the radio station. It was in Las Vegas,
and he, he came in to record commercials for a timeshare
because he was the guy they hired as the spokesperson. And
there was a whole bunch of other actors, if you will, that came
into the station and were trying to play like the cast. So they
wanted us to set up our talk studio so they could all be
around it and record the commercial. I'm like, no
production studio guys. This is how we work. And they were so
Prima Donna, I mean, they were like, Well, I'm not sure how we
can really get into character. I'm like, Dude, it's a
commercial for a flipping time shift. And Alan thick is just
like, Guys, let's just get, you know, he's just up next to my
mic, and he was like, let's just get, Let's hammer it out. We'll
get it. We'll get it taken care of. So anyway, we get it done.
All big hullabaloo and everything, all like, I've never
had to cater to people's egos, not his. Yeah, there's like,
Yeah, nobody knows who you guys are, you know. So they all
leave. He had to come back and do some pickups. And I only
maybe worked for them. Worked with him for maybe 45 minutes
during that day. So you know, he was coming in again maybe a
month later, and I get a call from the downstairs, like, you
know, your guest is here. Okay, let me go down and get him, and
I, you know, circle around, open a door, and I'm like, Hey, Mr.
Thick. He's like, hey Jim. I'm like, Oh, wow. Oh, my good on
you, man. You remembered me, and a lot of what a great guy. See,
I love people, like, they gotta do. It restores your faith in
humanity.
Now, see, I'm bad because I I'm bad with Nate. Yeah,
you don't say.
I think that's maybe why I lost my last gig, the new PD, you
know when you've been up for a long time? Yeah, it was one of
those mornings when I didn't get enough sleep the night before,
which is about every morning, right? Yeah, and
Paul is guy's name, real nice. Yes, he is really nice guy. And
I, you know, I felt bad for him. He had to fire me because I
don't think he really felt good about doing it. But anyway, I
Yeah, firing legends. I see him one more,
and I think I called him Dave. Hey, Dave. Dave, Paul, you gotta
forgive me.
Oh, speaking of Miss. Miss, like missing someone's name. This is
actually a fair story, so I can't I'm thinking of who the
guy was. So he comes into the studio and it. Was Colin Hay.
Oh, yeah, from work. Men at Work. Men at Work. Yeah. And
we're gonna have him on another show that we're producing on the
side, live here at one time. I guess so. Yeah, I guess so. So
he comes in and I'm on the phone with my wife, and I'm like, Hey,
I gotta let you go. We're we're about to do this podcast with
the guest is here. She's like, Oh, who is it? I'm like, oh,
it's Colin Ray. And he's sitting right across from and I'm going,
oh, and I kind of look at him, he starts laughing, like, kind
of you see his shoulders moving, and I'm like, did I totally oh
my gosh, you're calling Hey. I said, Come on, man, honest
mistake here. I mean, I knew kind of who you were. I know. Oh
my gosh. Let me shut up. Let me get the shoe out of my mouth.
Gosh,
oh man, it's tough. Hey, you know it just is, it's just is.
But, yeah, there's been a lot of great radio stories. I think
the, I think the the funniest one I can remember involves my
father and kind of me too, in a roundabout way, because at the
time I was it was during my sin in day, there were a couple of
us at the station that were imbibing, you know, we, we
smoked the devil's lettuce at the time, and one of us was kind
of stupid when it came to it. He didn't use good common sense.
But I was at family dinner one time, and it was a Sunday, and
dad had a habit on Sundays of not ever getting out of, you
know, like he'd always be wearing the robe and his
pajamas, and we're around the dinner table, and all of a
sudden the phone rings, and it's a radio station, and the buddy
of mine that's jocking that day had the great idea that, man,
I'll just nobody's here. I'll just smoke a joint while I'm on
the air. So to light the joint, he uses a match, and the match
he after he lit the joint, he throws the match in the waste
paper basket, which is underneath the console. The
match is not out. He thinks it is, but it's not, and probably
in the shape he's in, he doesn't notice that it's smoldering.
It's starting to smoke. The fire got so bad that it fried the
wires on the board knock the station off the air. Oh, fun.
And so we're we're all eating dinner, and dad gets this, gets
the news, and then he tells everybody what's happened, and
the whole family's eyes look at me like I did it, and I'm
thinking, I wasn't there. I was right here. For once, it wasn't
me, but they and even made a book. This the program director,
whose name was Don Keith, great guy. He has been really
successful with books. In fact, one of his novels became a movie
and starred Gerard Butler, really, but, yeah, the guy, but
he wrote a great book about radio called Wizard of the wind.
And in fact, I get a, I'm, uh, I get a dedication amongst
hundreds of other radio people cool, which made me feel, in
fact, my name was right next to Jerry houses. And wow, yeah,
that made me feel really good. It's a big deal, man. But don
tells the story in there, kind of, and he said, he said he
never forgot the image of my father pulling up in the back
lot, getting out of the car with his robe and pajamas, running up
to the station. And of course, that guy ended up getting
fired. Yeah, I would imagine. So, I mean, how long did it take
to get back on the other that's a major, that's a major. I
forget, it took a while. Yeah, it took a while. And,
yeah, that was probably back in the days when you couldn't just
shift everything over to a production studio and operate
out. Well, I think they may have, yeah, they may have done
that so, but, you know, talking about the radio. So, you know,
you go way back in radio, when stations were mostly Mom and Pop
owned, yes, before all of the, you know, corporate conglomerate
stuff, and those people, you know, like your father, you you
talked in another podcast about having personal relationships
with Jimmy Dean and Ron Clark and all. Oh, yeah, you know,
back then those Mom and Pop owners, they had those
relationships with with artists and stuff. They would stay over
at their houses and this kind of thing. Uh. A guy that I worked
for in Baton Rouge. He was came from Mississippi Mom and Pop.
Guy who bought that station. He bought an am when am radio was
big, but bought it like in the late 50s, yeah, and that was the
they were the king of the world in radio. Then he put an FM on
the air in 1969 that was, I think, the second country FM in
the nation at the time, because that was, that was new kind of,
you know, the FM radio to put a country station on it. Most FM
stations, you know, were, like, beautiful, you know, that's
Andre Castellon. It's another, you know, all that beautiful
music stuff. But, but anyway, in the back in the 50s, he owned
stations in Mississippi, and for I think it was Elvis, like stood
him up or something for a concert that they were doing. So
he consequently hated Elvis. And if you played Elvis on the
station, you would get a big time reprimand because he hated
Elvis, regardless of the fact that Elvis was Elvis. Well,
yeah, you know, but yeah, you couldn't play Elvis because he
was still, like, you know, 25 years later, still pissed at
Elvis because he stood him up at a concert or
something. See, I never understood that they when I
lived in Wichita, there was a big station. There was kfdi, may
still be a big country. Oh yeah, I used
to promote that station. Mike
oatman was the owner, and he Oh, yes, I remember him. He did. A
dad hated Yeah. And Mike hated my dad because they were, they
were really, I mean, they were, they were basically fighting the
radio wars. But anyway, Mike Oakman really made me mad one
day, because it was when Waylon Jennings put out, are you ready
for the country? And he's playing the song on the air, are
you ready for the country? And it had a line in it, which I
thought, Man, that's a great line. Said talking to a
preacher, said God was on his side, talking to the pusher,
they both were selling high. And I thought, Man, that's a great
line. Right after it plays, all of a sudden you hear the record
come off. Mike says, We're not playing that crap on the air
breaks the record on air. Said, I don't care if it is Waylon
Jennings, we're not promoting that kind of crap on this radio
station.
Well, you know, there are a lot of stations that wouldn't play
John Denver's Rocky Mountain High. It's true, because they
were taking that as some drug thing. Well, it may have been,
yeah, you know, kind of, you know, up for interpretation. I
was kind
of like Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, with the Beatles. The
LSD was actually a, you know, John Lennon's kid brought home
this picture that he painted. So, yeah,
I just made that correlation. I can see that.
But you also we're talking about meeting artists. I remember, as
I worked at kz country. It was in Nashville, on Music Row. It's
where curb records is now, and the studio that you broadcast
out of looked directly into the newsroom, which they sometimes
use. As you know, they would do celebrity interviews in there.
And my sister at the time, who was also working at the station,
was doing a celebrity interview for some I think syndicated
radio show with a Judd and Naomi and Wynonna were there, and
Naomi was sitting right across from me, where we could see each
other. Now, she never really looked over at me, but I was
watching her, and the whole time she and Winona had their
sunglasses on, which I found kind of funny. I kept thinking,
why are you wearing sunglasses inside? So I was wearing
contacts at the time, so I had shades. I had some Ray Bans, so
I stuck my Ray Bans on and did my show like that for a while,
waiting on Naomi to and finally she did. She was looking she
looked over at me, and, I mean, started smiling. I could tell
she was laughing. And they ended up coming into the studio, and
she said, I had to come in and introduce myself. She said, You
really had me laughing putting your son classes.
I said, Well, I'm just having
you're making fun of me.
You know, the first time I met her, I was working radio in
Baton Rouge, and she and in Winona. Know as the Judds.
Nobody really knew who they were just yet. I think they had just
put out their first first tune, but they were opening for Willie
Nelson at a concert there and and I was, I was emceeing the
concert, but anyway, backstage, and I didn't really know who the
judge were either. Really. I'd kind of heard of them from my
record rep with RCA the jack Weston, but Winona is riding a
bicycle backstage in the halls. Oh, wow. Of the LSU assembly
center is where the show was taking place. So she's riding a
bicycle, and I see Winona sitting in the dressing or,
pardon me, Naomi sitting in the dressing room by herself, no
makeup on. And I was just struck by how beautiful she was, very
beautiful woman. And I kind of stuck my head in the anyway, I
sat and chatted with her. There was nobody else in there, you
know. Again, they're just starting out. So I guess the
entourage wasn't, you know, quite there yet, right? You
know. But, yeah, just had the nicest, warmest talk. You know,
Jim had mentioned, I believe I'll tell that story, yeah, you
know what? We were off, off air here, I guess you would call it
about his encounter with Naomi and how nice she was. But, yeah,
just so down to earth and friendly and but again, I was
just, I was like, I know my jaw was dropping about how gorgeous
she was, but not without a stitch of makeup on, you know,
yeah, natural beauty. Man, yeah, yeah. But I'm guessing probably
Winona was, probably was like, she was like, 1819, when they
started something like that. So, yeah, pretty woman too. She was
just, oh yeah, they're very pretty women. So, you know, she
was just a kid bouncing off the walls, riding the bicycle
backstage. Man, it's crazy. So
tell us about your
so after the after my life in radio, I got into the car
business. The funny thing about the car business and radio,
whenever you tell people what you do, they're always
fascinated. It's either a fascination with what you do or
a hatred for what you do. Yeah, I found that commonality with
both those Yes. You know what I hate about car sales. Okay,
yeah, I get it. But I was working at Mercedes Benz and
Cool Springs, and I had the office right next to the side of
the building. So it was a beautiful spring day. We had the
doors open, a nice breeze coming through, and it wasn't uncommon
for people to to kind of jaunt in and with their pets, or dogs
or something like that, on a leash, you know, with
consideration. So I'm sitting there at my desk at my computer,
looking, who else do I need to call? I really, I really enjoyed
that job. And I stay out of my peripheral. I see a little dog
walking in without a leash, and I'm going, Are you kidding me?
Come on, man, and, you know, following the dog was a woman,
and I'm looking at her, and I'm tracking her, and she stops
right in front of my desk, and I'm going get I'm going, Gosh,
she looks so you look so familiar. She about faces, and
just turns right towards me, and she goes, I'm looking for some
trucks. Okay, used pre owned, you know, we got trucks. I mean,
Mercedes doesn't make trucks, per se, we make SUVs. Yes, SUVs.
Okay, great. You know what? I could be able to happy to help
you. As she comes walking over, extends her hand, she goes, I'm
Ashley, that's who you are. Okay, now I know yours. Ashley
Judd, yeah. And as we start talking, and in walks Naomi and
her husband, whose name I get. Remember, Larry street seems to
be the theme of the show today.
And she we went.
We went, we found a car, took a test drive, and everything out
in the test drive, all four of us went, and Naomi was just all
about me, just asking me, Well, tell me about your family. Where
are you from? How What's your wife do? Tell me about your
kids. How old are your kids? Where do they go to? Just like
salesmanship. 101, yes, like someone trained her. But I think
it was just innate in her to just be curious about other
people, which I think made her very endearing. And I think it
was a natural trait, yes, and boy, what a what an impression
she made. And I'm like, I really appreciate you. Ashley. Was
Ashley, uh, Naomi was was amazing. Was absolutely amazing.
She was amazing. She made you just love her.
I think that's one reason they became so big. It wasn't just
winona's talent, which was phenomenal. I mean, yeah,
Wynonna is great singer,
but you met Wynonna as well, right? Yeah, I did. She's nice
as well.
She was nice. She was not. She was a little smart alec, which
was fine, because I am too. But I remember somebody on the staff
had put a penthouse. It was a penthouse subscription card on
my console to be, you know, smart a and I. I had forgotten
about it being there when they came into the studio. Of course
there was and why, no one looks over goes, Oh, penthouse,
yeah. Do you read it? Yeah? I read it for the articles.
Yeah, I just read Yeah. I like, I like the I like the forum.
But yeah, radio,
they're really huge articles.
Yes, big, big old, big old,
yeah. And I, yeah, I post those I like, so I
like getting to the bottom of the story. But anyway, you
know, we were talking earlier in another episode about deaths
that affected people, yes. And again, Naomi, Naomi, Judge well.
And again, the circumstances that were indeed so
heartbreaking.
Well, suicide is always,
you know, my mother was the same way suicide, if people really
knew what, how it affect. I mean, you're not, you're not
solving a problem. You're creating even more problems. I
mean, that that's what's so sad about suicide, in such a way,
the permanent solution to a timid, temporary problem,
exactly. Thing, you know, the Robin Williams, Oh, yeah. But
anyway,
what was the song, country song, back in oh five, it was, it was
kind of like a, I don't remember the artist, but it was how it
was called, how do you get that lonely? It was about suicide,
yeah, you know. But great song, yeah, it was really good song.
And I can't remember the artist, I'm sorry, guy names, yeah,
we're having a tough time today. Yeah,
you had mentioned, like the breaking the records, yes, and
it reminded me of, like, once upon a time, how radio had such
power. It still does today. To a certain extent, the record
industry, the music business, really does depend on spins, as
it were. You know, even though there's definitely a diminishing
audience and a fractured attention span and listenership.
It reminded me of when I was in Vegas, actually, shortly short,
shortly before I went there, I was really fascinated with it,
and, oddly enough, ended up working out there. But a buddy
of mine was programming kxte, one Oh, 7.5 extreme radio out in
Las Vegas at the time, in 2000 and I remember reading it in a
trade papers this, this had come out, and I think it even made
mainstream media when it came out. Limp Bizkit was out
promoting their latest album called the chocolate starfish
and the hot dog flavored water metaphors. Apparently, they
decided they had a 21 city tour in the US and Canada, and before
they went off to Japan. So they decided to not play Vegas,
because they had an opportunity to play somewhere else for more
money. So they basically flipped off Vegas, yeah, when kxte
caught wind of it, and they basically banned them from the
radio station because they weren't they weren't going to
play Vegas and Dave Wellington, who is the program director,
Beef Wellington, we call them, yeah, he met, he made headlines.
And like, like, listeners were out, you know, rolling the the
discs over with steam rollers and all sorts of stuff. And it
was a big spectacle. Is amazing. Wow, just the black eye those
guys got because of that
the Dixie Chicks,
oh, yeah, that was a big Yeah, and they blamed radio, but
really, they blame but it wasn't so much radio decided to do
that. It was the radio audience. Yeah, because I was working at
we worked for Clear Channel at the time. We were in talk right,
of course, with Phil and I remember when that happened,
they were getting flooded though. I mean, anytime they
played a Dixie chick song, the audience, mean they they did not
want it. So that's why a lot of those songs got pulled. It
wasn't radio's decision just because of something. She said,
it was because of the audience backlash. I always said Natalie
mains would have been a lot better off, and people probably
would have thought, you know, it's a lot different. You know,
if she had done that in Texas somewhere, we people probably
go, man, that took some guts,
yeah? But you did it overseas. They did it overseas.
Springsteen just did
it. Yeah, stupid. Well, and the thing with her, that whole
thing, was she, she was trying to win the audience back,
because the worst thing you can do to a performer is boo. And
she said something about them being from Texas as from why I
understand the concert and the audience in England started
booing her, and that's when she made that comment. And it was
like, you know, that was, um, you didn't need to do that. You
did not need to do that. But she, she paid for it, and the
and it's really a shame, because the group was really good. I
thought I were Dixie Chicks. Put out some great music. Same with
I love Steve Earl. He's one of my favorite singer songwriters.
But sometimes that dude puts his
Yeah, but he, you know again, knowing Steve again, going back
to my MCA Records days, he's one of the artists I got to know
probably better than than anyone. He's a likable guy. Oh,
Steve's a good dude, yeah, he really is, you know, he has, he
has very strong political leanings, far social, far left,
yeah, you know. But that is never, you know, that's just
hasn't been anything that's come up in our relationship, you
know? Well, it's so, yeah, but in terms of his, you know, his
art, brilliant songwriter, you know, admittedly, he can be kind
of an acquired taste, as far as a performer goes, Yes, but Yeah,
but you're right. I mean, Steve has said some things that I
don't think if he were trying to go mainstream country, then
maybe some of his comments would would be an issue for him. But
that's that's never been Steve. Well,
no, and I don't think Steve really cares. No, no. I think, I
think Steve looks at it like, you know, hey, you either like
me or you don't, right if you don't, yeah, I don't agree with
him. I don't even but I like a lot of issues. Sure, I like his
music. And you know, the only thing that I got tired of, as
far as is on stage stuff, was I didn't mind the songs that, you
know, that he had, like the revolution starts now, whatever
that was he wrote against George W Bush, you know that that
didn't bother me. What bothered me were the constant political
talks that he would do on stage, yeah, yeah. He was like, I
didn't come to I want to escape this. You know, he
will get to rambling about that, yeah, on stage and yeah, I, you
know, back again when we were trying to break him at MCA, we
had the he had a little bit of baggage in terms of his music,
Because epic Sony tried to make him
a rockabilly Yes. In fact, I was one of the first DJs to play him
in this town and that and
that. First of all, that wasn't Steve, no. It just it was all
wrong. But you know, when he came over to MCA in the guitar
town album, oh, what a brilliant wreck. But boy, talk about a
bear trying to get that on radio. And that surprised me,
though. Well, I was, as I say, I think there was some baggage
with that. Oh, that's that rockabilly guy, right? And we
don't play the rockabilly guy.
Well, I gotta admit too when that record came out, because
Steve had turned me off when I first met him, because that was
when he was on CBS. He was doing the rockabilly stuff, and the
program director didn't want to talk to him, and so he said,
Would you mind doing I said, No, I don't mind doing it, because I
like meeting new artists anyway, and I really liked him at first.
I mean, we were getting along. He was, I think he was with John
Lomax at the time. Yeah, that's it. Was your manager. Yep, I
believe you're right. And they were both real nice, and I
really enjoyed talking to them. But Steve's demeanor changed
when I said, Well, what are you doing? What kind of music is
this? He's because I didn't hear the record. He goes, Well, I'm
doing rockabilly. And at the time, I was, you know, trying to
be an artist, too. And they told me that, oh, that sounds
rockabilly. I said, Well, it's interesting, because that's what
somebody said my record sounded like. And for some reason that
turned him. He got, all of a sudden, it just changed. He was
real standoffish and acted like he wanted to get out of there.
And I thought, Well, I'm sorry. I said, So when my wife went to
get my wife, at the time, went to go buy guitar town, I said,
Well, you're going on your own. I said, I'm not going in there.
I don't want to be seen buying that. Because I remembered that.
Yeah, yeah. But then when she brought it home, I was like,
Man, this guy, this record is phenomenal, yeah, and I really
fell in love with his music. Well,
hillbilly highway was the first single off that album, and it
didn't, I don't know. I think he may have gotten to the 30s,
maybe, yeah, it
didn't go far, yeah, which is a shame. It's a great song.
But then you know that, but that, that fat Duane Eddy
guitar, yeah, you know that. I don't know if that was a Tony
brown idea. Who produced that album, but that was Richard
Bennett, yeah. Richard Bennett, yeah. I mean, he's the one that
was playing that guitar, yeah, but I was working non reporters.
At the time, you know, back then, you know, well, I say non
reporters, stations that did not report to billboard or R and R,
which was radio and records, which is no longer around. But
if you were in R and
R, which meant, essentially a radio station could pick its own
playlist, pretty much, yeah,
yeah. So R and R and billboard reporters. I was, I was calling
at the time cash box and Gavin report stations and big stations
that didn't report to anybody. And I was starting the reporters
at the time were just blowing him off. They were not playing
Steve Earle, right? But I started getting traction with
those non reporters, the Gavins that in the Rust Belt, in Ohio,
in Pennsylvania, West Virginia. And finally, the big stations
were telling their record rep, their MCA guy that was calling
them, who was Bill catino At that time, I'm getting calls for
this Steve Earl guy, who? So? Who is he? Now, you know? So
that is what started to get the traction for guitar town, yeah.
And ultimately, that was a number one album. Oh, but boy,
it took a lot of work, a lot of work to get
there, unless you had people that worked at that label,
unlike you, that were not behind him at all. No,
you know, that's a shame, because it's not a priority in a
lot of people's minds.
See, to me, that record really, I mean, I never wanted to pick
the guitar up again. I thought, boy, this guy is phenomenal. And
in the next record, exit zero, I really fell in love with I was
working at a my father and I got involved in a small station
happened to be in Fairview, Tennessee, and I didn't know at
the time Steve lived there, yeah, yes, right. And so I got,
really, got into that record. And then he came out with
Copperhead road, and I remember I was the only one out of all of
us there that liked it. Everybody else was, oh, man,
he's gone way too far now. And my father and I had a bet. I
said, I bet you the album at least, will go top 10 in the
country charts. He said, you're on and and I said, if it wins, I
want to play the album in its entirety on the station, because
I love the guy so much. And sure enough, it went to number seven.
Went to number seven. I went into the girl that was playing
music, and I said, I want you to play this album. It's an
entirety. And she said, Really, yes,
well, I have to tell you my first experience in hearing
Copperhead road by Steve Earle. He was and I don't know who did
this or how it came about. But he was asked, I guess, to
perform at a meeting reception party, whatever it was for Fifth
Third Bank downtown Nashville. Perfect, Fifth Third Bank
downtown Nashville. I went with him to that. I helped him. I
mean, it was just him and his guitar, yeah. And nobody really
knew, you know, right, who the heck he was. But, yeah, here he
is playing for all these bankers at this, you know, kind of
hoity, toity. So the interest rates are up 3.5 you know, like
that with their cocktail glasses. Yeah, stuff. Well, you
know, Steve's playing his stuff, and nobody's really paying all
that much attention to him, quite frankly, but he mentions,
well, here's a new tune that I've not really played for
anybody in public. But since ain't, nobody paying any
attention anyway, what the hell? So he pulls out his mandolin,
yes, and starts playing that intro to to Copperhead Road,
yes. And he is just really starting to just, you could tell
he was kind of pissed. Anyway, yeah. So he was really letting
out his angst and kind of discuss for all of these
capitalists,
well, and plus, plus, the way he played a mandolin. It wasn't
like you hear with the real gentle, no, no. He plays it more
percussive. I mean, absolutely, yeah.
So he is just really starting to get going. And, of course, he
wears those bandanas on his wrist, yes, and the bandanas
were already kind of sweaty, so there's just like sweat and spit
flying everywhere. And he's just, well, my name's John Lee
patter, you know, just really getting it going. And finally,
though, the. Those capitalist bankers finally stopped and just
stood there and took notice, yes, of the song. And I thought
it was such a great song. And, of course, it is, I mean, the
story that tells, oh, it's, it's, I remember, just
brilliant.
Well, the first time I heard it was in, it was at Douglas corner
when it was still here, yeah, and Steve was just by himself.
He was doing like an acoustic show, and all of a sudden he
brings out this kick drum and his mandolin and starts playing
this song. And I am mesmerized. I'm thinking, Man, this is a
great song. And then the next time I hear it, he's doing a
show at War Memorial Auditorium with Roseanne cash and Rodney
Crowell and Steve was the opener, and that was a big
mistake, I thought, because as much as I love Rodney Crowell
and Roseanne cash, Steve blew them both off the stage, yeah,
and he did Copperhead road that night, and it had not come out
yet, and it had the full band this time. My gosh, the way that
that place came alive with that song. And I thought that song is
going to
be huge. Well, after Steve did it for those bankers, he
actually got applause, you know, great song just kind of stopped
and like, What's this guy doing? You know, he got their
attention. Oh, yeah, it was a cool moment.
Well, I'll tell one more Steve Earl story, because we don't
want to make this the Steve Earle hour, but Steve was on
Phil show one time, Bill Valentine. Now, of course,
they're, they're, they're politically opposite,
metrically, except for one area. Phil was not for the death
penalty. And that's what Steve was doing. He was doing a
concert. It was an anti death penalty concert, and I asked
Phil if he'd like to have him on. He said, Well, you know, you
like his music. I kind of dig his music. He said, Yeah. He
said, Let's have him on. So Steve gets to the station early,
and I see him out in the lobby, so I decided to go out and talk
to him. And we had great talk. We talked country music, we
talked all kinds of stuff. And I thought, well, this is going to
be a great interview. And I said, so I told Steve. I said,
Well, I gotta get back in, get ready for the show. But I said,
even though you and Phil are politically opposed, I said, you
do have a common, common theme with this. I said he believes,
as you do, not quite like you do, but he's not for the death
penalty either. And he goes, Oh, I know he's going to ambush me.
I said, No, man, he's going to be good to you. I said he didn't
ambush anybody. And that interview started a real
contention between Phil Valentine and Steve Earle. In
fact, Phil is in this movie that this guy did on Steve Earle
called just an American boy, and they're talking about the it's
all about when he had that song out John Walker's blues. And
there's a clip of Phil on Fox News going it's the worst song
I've ever heard. But when Steve went into the interview, he was
very contentious with Phil, and wasn't very nice, right? And
Phil was being really and after that interview, Phil said, what
a butthole. He said, I'll never be nice to him again, which is
sad, because Steve's really a good guy. He is, he is, and Phil
was, too. It's a shame they couldn't find a common ground,
which there was, you know, so that's right, I gotta tell you a
great Phil Valentine's story, since we're telling radio
stories here,
but Excuse me, but Phil,
when we started on W, L, A, C, was notorious for coming in just
in time. Yeah, a lot of, lot of guys like that. Well, he
usually, he would be coming in as the theme music was playing.
This is how it usually went to everything. The whole news part
was over. The weather was over. All of a sudden it's pow done.
You know, the Eddie money song they used another, I think, is
what another day in LA, I think was the name of the song. But
anyway, the song's going, there's no Phil. All of a
sudden, in comes Phil Valentine. He puts the briefcase down, pops
it open, gets his earphones out, waves to me, how you doing? You
know, the program director is going out of his mind cussing me
out. Where is he? Where is he? Puts the earphones on, boom,
there he is. And there's only one time, and I think this, I
think this was the end of the days when he would cut it so
close. There was one day that traffic was really bad and he
didn't make it in on time. And he called me on the phone and
did part of the open on the phone. Very cool, very cool.
Those
things happen in radio.
Yeah, they do. Radio is a I miss the days of the old, you know
when, when you were talking about, like mom and pops? Yeah,
that was fun. I mean, you know
the person, the family, or the person, or whatever that owned
the place was in the corner office. Oh, yeah, you saw them
every day. Yeah? Not like, now, when you really don't know who
the hell owns this, I don't really know, yeah, well, it's
like, well, even the the general managers, the general manager of
the last radio station I worked at. I probably only saw her. I
can count on my hand, yeah, probably how many times drew as
well. I've seen her in this station, you know. Well, you
know,
back then, those stations had staffs, you know, there were,
you know, there was somebody that wrote the copy for the
commercials. There was, you know, two or three people that
were in the production department, oh, yeah, news
department, you know, now there's, you know, there's
nobody
there. Well, there was camaraderie. I mean, I remember
we used to when I worked at radio station here in Nashville.
It was in Madison. It used to be, we know it, oh, W, J, R, B,
W, E, M, O, but we would go out, and we'd go out drinking
together whatever, or have dinner together. It's far
different now. It's more like now, like in the last radio
station I was in, they, they, you know, sales was downstairs,
programming was
upstairs. You never see anybody, no, well, you
know, that's probably a good thing.
Well, I'll admit, you know,
I'm with a station here in town now, and I I been there three
years, and, you know, I see people in the hall is kind of
like, Hi, how you doing? Right? I have no idea who these people
are, that and I know their sales or there's something I don't
know. Maybe it's incumbent upon me to go, Hi, I'm Jay. And you
know, maybe
are the sales staff still like staffed to the fullest extent?
Are they dwindling too?
That's a good question. That is good question. I'm I don't
really know. I do know that what you know, the thing about radio
now is, and you know, we've seen the sales, the income results
for iHeart and cumulus just came out here in the last week or so.
And you know, radio revenue is down, but digital revenue is up.
The podcasts are up. Yeah, as these stations go to more of the
of the digital footprint,
something they should have done 15 years ago, but whatever.
Yeah.
So, you know, these conglomerates, I mean, they're
they're catching on in realizing that they're going to have to
diversify their their platforms, and not just rely on the
transmitter.
Well, you know, what's sad to me, though, in a way, is that I
miss the old days of radio when it was theater of the mind,
because I think a lot of I was telling somebody in radio, this
may have been, you Jay, where I said, you know, I know it was.
It was producer of Michael del giorno show,
and was his name, Jim?
Maybe Chris, no, Chris No, but you know his name is Jeff. Great
talent. Great radio talent, actually. But I was telling
Jeff, I said, you know, if, if the Phil Valentine show had come
around now, I said, I doubt we'd be able to do dancing in the
booth, or, you know, the other things like snowflake, or any of
the other thing, because Phil was such a genius at theater of
the mind, and that's why I really miss about radio today,
is the theater of the mind stuff, because now you're on
camera, and it's a lot different. I mean, it's it's
changed, and I'm not saying it's changed for the worse. It's just
for me, I miss that theater of the mind when I didn't know who
the guy I didn't know what the guy looked like, I didn't know
what the girl looked like. You know, there were times when
you'd hear a girl on the radio and you'd think, wow, I bet
she's hot. And then you'd, well, that's about anybody radio. We
all had faces for radio.
Hey, we're gonna be live over here at the Woolworth come meet
us.
I met a guy at a function we had at WT n, it was for a Dave
Ramsey, when Dave was on there. And this guy comes up to me, and
he goes, You're Johnny B I went, Yes, sir, I am. He goes, You're
not what I expected. And I said, well. You're not what I
expected, either. And he got mad. I was like, well, you
started Italian radio
people that are fascinated, or they something they don't like
about you. Or
there was a woman one time that came up to me. It was at a UT
thing that WAC was doing, and this woman comes up to me and
asks if it was me. And I said, Yeah. She goes, Are you Johnny?
I pictured you being fat like Rush Limbaugh
I'm working on I
remember we had Dr Laura on our station in Vegas, and you all I
ever saw of her were the pictures we had on the walls and
stuff like that. So it was the first time ever, I thought, time
I ever I thought there was other pictures that came out maybe,
but she came into the station to do her show one time, and she
was walking down the hall and it was like, oh my, wow. The
Photoshop wasn't invented yet. Like, that's a lot of Vaseline
on the lens. I mean, like a leather handbag, yeah. I mean,
my good and she was, she was cordial, she was nice. And it's
funny about these people when you come across, especially like
talk show hosts, yes, Phil, I think, was always on, you know,
I'm from what I know of him. He was always kind of like, you
know, you knew more intimately. But a lot of these people I met,
you know, I worked with Sean Hannity and Dr Laura Tom Lycus
came in one time and did his show off the air. They're
completely different. Well, I always heard that about rush
Howard, the same thing. Yeah, he's a very shy, introverted guy
and, you know, very appreciative of people. But once that mic
turns on, he becomes the character, yeah, the acerbic,
yeah.
I think that's way Rush was too. I asked people that met rush
what he was like off, and they said, man, very shy guy, yeah,
very kind of withdrawn. I'm really disappointed in Howard
Stern. I used to really like how
we're talking we're talking about deaths in the previous
episode, and we forgot to mention his, uh, career,
yeah, it's, it's well. And what
really turned me against him was when Phil died of covid, with
every two other talk show hosts died about the same time. And
Howard Stern was asked about it, and his reply was good. And I
thought, yeah, what a horrible, what a horrible, yeah. I thought
you were better than that. And ever since then, I just, and
then, when he went real woke, I just thought
he became the exact kind of person that he used to make fun
of, yeah, yeah.
Well, I understand too, is, I think they said, ever since he
married his new
he became bougie, yeah? Well,
they said he's also a lot of his workers have said, the people
that work with him have said that he really relishes being
fond over by celebrities. He wants to be invited to celebrity
parties, what he always wanted. And that's what he's playing to
basically, totally and when you do that, it's over. I mean, he
may as well if you're not playing to that audience in
front of you. Yeah.
Well, you know, apparently he and Donald Trump were big
buddies. There were times Trump was on his show a lot
and, well, even David Letterman and David Letterman used to have
Trump on all the
time. Stick your flag in the soil, man, and you draw a line
in the sand, that you're gonna polarize people well.
And it's like we were talking about Steve Earle, Dixie,
chicks, folks like that. You know, if you get political, it's
like a, I had a an artist. Tell me, I won't say who it was, but
they were working one of these cruise ships, and they said
there was an artist that went on stage and started blasting
Barack Obama, who was it president at the time? And they
said the audience walked out on the next night, another artist
came on and was knocking Donald Trump and said the audience once
again walked out. You're either going to, if you get, if you
step into the political fray, if you're a recording artist, I
think you're going to end up, you're going to lose half your
audience.
Well, you know, you look at what Al Dean did with try that in a
small town, he's unapologetic about it, even to the point
where it spurred off a podcast, which is the one I produced.
Yes, what drew me to that was I know those guys. I know you
know, Kurt and Tully through my relationship with rich, but the
other two guys, kalo and Neil, who are their other songwriters,
are also legendary songwriters here in town. But yeah, man, I
said I am really intrigued by the fact that you guys are doing
this because it's a risk. It's a very left leaning town.
And yeah, well, especially now that music business, and in
fact, you have. Had when you were on the radio, you had an
artist on that was talking about how music row has changed. Yes,
not Darrell Worley, yeah, it's not. It's not like Daryl Worley
is a
great guy, yeah, with a podcast, by the way, yeah, yes, he does,
yes, he does. Yeah. We're going to try to game on. Yeah. I think
we can get it.
I think so too. But I think that's the, I mean, I don't mind
a song, you know, like I was talking about Steve, I didn't
mind hearing songs in concert that I could tell were left
leaning. But it's the, it's the when you start grandstand, when
you start making speeches, political speeches, on stage,
and you're an artist. You mean, it's done.
I mean, you know, you go back to the Merle Haggard days, yes,
during the Vietnam War, you know, fight inside of me. Yeah,
some of these that were deemed to be okie from Muskogee deemed
to be kind of almost right, right wing, conservative but
that's not who Haggard was. No, he was not, you know, he was
more left leaning, yeah, he was in in terms of his political
stance, yeah. But he certainly had, you know, kind of made the,
you know, planted his flag in the sand, if you will, on on the
kind of conservative side.
Well, even Johnny Cash. A lot of people thought Johnny Cash was
conservative. He wasn't really. He was very, very fact. He was
very Al Gore. He wanted Al Gore to he Oh, yeah,
but yeah. But, you know, you can be patriotic, yes, without being
conservative. You know? I mean the Johnny Cash with the rugged,
old flag, yeah, ragged old flag. It old flag, yeah, you know, and
that, that is just a masterpiece.
Well, if you've ever seen the there's a, I think you can see
it on to be maybe, but it's a highway men in concert, and
Johnny Cash does ragged, old flag, and he said, he said, I'm
proud to be from a country that will allow somebody to burn the
flag. He said that, you know, in the audience really didn't do
much to that, but he says, I'm also proud to be from a country
that if you burn my flag, I've got the right to shoot you.
That's right there. Joe, but,
yeah, radio, back to radio. It's changed a lot. It had to. And in
fact, as you pointed out, they were late to the they were very
late.
They're little, they're laggards. I mean, it's, you
know, and it's to be fair. You know, you have to, obviously
nurture your revenue stream, where it comes from, make sure
that's that's happening. But, you know, it was kind of a catch
22 you know, to kind of be a very, you know, devil's advocate
approach to this is, I we get it, you know, you know where
you're, where you're, where your bills are being paid, right? But
to kind of all of a sudden try and pivot. But, I mean, I don't
think anybody could really see how fast this pivoted. And I was
actually gonna say maybe for another episode, do a topic on a
radio guys perspective on podcasters. Yeah, really good
topic, you know. But basically, it's just amazing to me that
podcasting kind of did come up right around Oh 708, and I think
podcasting is the big thorn in the side of radio right now. It
certainly has been, you know, with all the different digital
offerings in Oh 708, it kind of it crested and then went away,
but it came back with a force in, like, 2014 2015
it did, you know, and you know, I totally like in my situation.
I think I've even told you this the time you interviewed me on
your podcast, I totally got why I was let go, and that's why I
didn't take it as personally as some people did. I understand
there are still some audience members that, oh yeah, yeah,
which I appreciate. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that
loyalty, but I totally got while I because I think they were
want, Phil is gone, the station's going to have to
change to stay alive. And I totally got why they did what
they did because they wanted. That they have to change. You
have to change or you're not going to stay alive. And I
totally got it. Didn't take it personally. The only thing I
took personally was the way they did it, yeah, and that's, that's
kind of I would have rather had a face to face, yeah, you
deserve that, rather than a that's the only thing I had
against the whole firing was the was the, you know, doing it by
computer on at home when I was just there, just like an hour or
two before, where you could have called me into an office and
said goodbye, and maybe they were afraid. Maybe I have an
image of, oh, he might, you know, he'll. Will. He'll get
violent. He'll, oh, yeah, that's you. You know, that's me, but,
yeah, I wish it had been done that way. But I have to say,
though, the program director, Paul, fantastic about it. I
mean, he was a gentleman, and even called me later, just check
on your Yeah, he did. He said, I just want to make sure your
eyes, man, I'm cool. And he said, Well, be sure to sign your
I said, signed and done. He said, already that's yes, it's
done.
John, you know, as you've told me, yeah, you know that whole
thing going down. Certainly, while you don't take it
personally, it still hurts after invest, sure, after investing a
couple of decades, and your passion, you know, but, but
you've told me that you've, you've actually felt lighter,
though, that it was a relief in one respect. Well, it
was, I remember the day it happened, my wife, you know, we
were on the front porch, and we were talking about it, and she's
sitting there bawling, you know, she's crying, and she goes, Why
are you not more upset? And I said, Because I'm free. Yeah,
you know, now I can, now I can kind of do some things I've
wanted to do. I'm I'm not. And to be honest, as much as I love
Radio, I'm not a big fan of the corporations that own them.
That's nothing against those corporations, but it's just not
the radio that I grew to love, right? That's not the radio that
I love, and I have to tell you, and I thank you for this, is
that that's why I love this. I love podcasting, Jim, because
you're right. It's, it's, it's the future. You're still needed,
man. And the thing is, Phil Valentine, before he died, I
think Phil was going to leave radio. I really do. I think he
had had his fill of it, and he had talked to me. He he wanted
to, he wanted to start a podcast network of his own. And I think
he wanted to, he said he wanted me to do one on music. He said,
I think he'd be great at that. He said, that's your future. I
think he wanted to do one for Pamela fur. He really loved her
and believed in her. And so I think that's the route he was
going anyway. And so this just seemed a logical way to go. And
I appreciate you for for, you know, inspiring me to do this.
Very welcome. You know, it's like when you believe in
somewhat what somebody is doing. That's the thing is that I think
a lot of people see what I or hear what I say. They think I'm
throwing shade on on radio. I'm not. I'm throwing, I'm throwing
shade on the ownership groups, the people that didn't pivot
hard enough. It's like you're supposed to be a creative
industry. Be creative. Yes,
that's what's missing. And, and, you know, excuse me, you're
getting your butt kicked by people that are in rooms like
this, yes, that are building massive audiences. Joe Rogan's
audiences. You Who would have thought that, right? Who would
have thought that? But he started, no seven. Yeah, he did.
He started podcast.
Yeah, he got in there early. Well, I mean, I just saw where,
you know, Taylor Swift on the podcast, new heights. What was
it? 10 million, 10 million viewers on the podcast with the,
with the Kelsey folks. And that's the new heights
broadcast, so, you know. And of course, announcing her new
album, which is going crazy so you know, she's not out there
promoting her album on radio. She promotes it on a 10 million
viewed podcast. And that crazy is that, of course, you know,
that's another level, you know, but nonetheless, it does show
you the power, yeah,
how things are changing, right?
And I think I'll make a prediction a lot of the artists,
especially, you know, there's, you know, if you're an A list
country artist, it's about a 20 year run, right, right? Some
people are the exception to the rule. But I will make a
prediction that a lot of the artists that you know I've kind
of done the thing that you know. John Rich has done the thing
right? He's toured, he's been an artist and everything. He's more
of a pontificator Now, political commentator, they're gonna start
turning towards podcasting. I think you see a lot more artist
driven podcasts, and when that happens, it's your show.co. Is
the place to go.
Well, I gotta hand it to Dan manges and Chris and it station.
I used to work at WT, and they've got a great podcast,
right? And Matt Murphy and Matt Murphy, Cam Smith, or Yes, so, I
mean, so that's, that's what's happening with your with your
radio personalities now is that they have their own
podcast so we're not broadcasters anymore. We're
podcasters, and that's why we want you to return to circling
the drain, because it'll be back and we'll have a great show
lined up for you with Jay Harper and, of course, old Chris. You.
Here me. Chris. Jim McCarthy,
Jimmy Chris McCarthy.
Jimmy Z, now. Johnny B, we appreciate you joining us on
circling the DRE you.