In this raw and deeply moving second part of Jackie's story, Orla, Leanne and Jackie pick up where they left off — and what follows is one of the most honest and courageous conversations the pod has had.
Jackie takes us through the moment she discovered she was pregnant with Abby, and the immediate unravelling of Tony's mask — from "that's what we always wanted" to "I don't believe you're pregnant" within days. What should have been a time of joy became another chapter of coercive control, fear, and isolation, compounded by the devastating news at Jackie's 20-week scan that her baby had a serious heart condition. Abby was born with a complex congenital heart defect — her organs on the wrong side, her heart with only two chambers and a large hole between them — and was rushed straight to Crumlin Children's Hospital from birth. Jackie describes the terror of bringing a medically fragile baby home with a 50% chance of not making it to her first birthday, learning CPR at the hospital door, and doing it all largely alone while living in fear of Abby's father.
As Abby grew, so did the abuse — escalating to the night Tony picked Jackie up and threw her across the room in front of Abby, telling her he would have her killed. That was Jackie's light bulb moment. She talks about the court process, the safety orders that were just pieces of paper to him, the guards who didn't take her seriously, and the slow, painful road to finally getting out. She also opens up about eventually finding support through Aoibhneas domestic violence services, being diagnosed with PTSD, and what it felt like to finally have her experience validated.
Jackie also speaks about her mother — learning at her deathbed that she likely had autism, and the grief and guilt that came a year later when everything finally made sense. And she speaks about her father, whom she cared for despite everything, and who told her she wasn't his.
This is an episode about survival — not just Jackie's, but Abby's. Today, Abby has finished a PLC with nine distinctions, is clued in, strong, and thriving. And Jackie, living in a beautiful little cottage by the sea, is a very different woman — one who doesn't take shit, points out red flags, and has her hand out to anyone who needs it.
Her closing words to anyone still in it: Don't ignore the red flags. Don't be afraid to talk. Believe in the experience that you're having.
Timecodes
00:00 – Intro: Leanne and Orla welcome listeners back for Part 2 of Jackie's story
00:25 – Recap: picking up from Part 1, moving into Abby's arrival and life from there
00:58 – Jackie calls Tony the moment she finds out she's pregnant — and wonders to this day why she did
01:19 – Tony's reaction: "That's what we always wanted" — followed within days by "I don't believe you're pregnant"
02:08 – Why Jackie didn't leave: living in constant fear, the body going into autopilot every time he walked through the door
02:51 – The roller coaster of Tony's responses to the pregnancy; and Jackie's sister passing away in the middle of it all
03:36 – The 20-week scan: the nurse takes too long, asks Jackie to come back — and Jackie's gut knows immediately something is wrong
04:48 – Returning for the follow-up scan: brought into a different room, a specialist, a team — "There's something wrong with your baby"
05:24 – The diagnosis: a serious heart condition, possibly linked to Down syndrome — Jackie's response: "I don't care if my baby has Down syndrome, I need to know if she'll live"
05:40 – Tony's reaction on finding out it's a girl: visible disgust — his only priority was a boy
06:32 – Scans at Crumlin Children's Hospital throughout the pregnancy; the surreal terror of being in a children's hospital before Abby is even born
07:13 – The cardiologist's bleak prognosis: Abby's organs on the wrong side, liver midline, heart central, two chambers with a large hole between them
08:05 – Jackie hiding away during the pregnancy, talking to Abby every day, willing her to just get through
08:41 – Abby goes into distress a week before her due date; emergency C-section
09:23 – Abby is born — purple, a mop of jet black hair, gorgeous — and immediately taken to Crumlin
09:44 – Jackie, post-surgery and unable to walk, left alone in a hospital room while Abby fights for life; Tony's family never once makes contact
10:41 – A control call from Tony's ex while Jackie is lying there unable to move — she cuts it short
11:32 – The next morning: Jackie discharges herself against medical advice to get to Crumlin; the first time she gets to touch Abby
12:21 – Crumlin: emergency blessings, Prostin to keep Abby's arteries open, MRI scans
12:53 – Abby's first open-heart surgery at three days old; Jackie describes seeing her baby connected to tubes, unrecognisable
13:33 – The abuse never stopped during the pregnancy — always there under the surface; keeping Tony happy just to survive
14:10 – Tony thriving off Abby's illness for sympathy; Jackie realises she was confiding in the wrong person
15:05 – Taking Abby home from hospital: learning CPR at the door, terrified of the "what ifs", 50% chance of not making it to her first birthday
16:05 – Home for three weeks, then Abby's second surgery at ten months old; she flies through it
17:03 – The ongoing reality: regular hospital admissions, needle trauma, Abby's fear of procedures — and Jackie navigating it all
18:13 – Tony always around, never a couple, but Jackie never left Abby alone with him
18:42 – Abby starts school early on cardiologist advice; she thrives and loves it
19:12 – The abuse escalates; Jackie's entire focus is Abby, running on fear and survival
19:47 – The night everything changed: Tony picks Jackie up and throws her across the room in front of Abby, tells her he'll have her killed — his eyes go black
21:08 – The new layer of fear: not just him, but the threat of an unknown person; Jackie believes him completely — "his own mother said she knew"
21:50 – Installing cameras, seeing shadows in the grass, barely functioning; her aunt visits and raises the alarm to her uncle Pat
23:20 – The court case: Jackie can't go into detail legally but describes the experience as surreal, watching Tony lie with confidence in front of a judge
24:42 – Why Jackie still allowed contact: not wanting Abby alone with him unsupervised, and the terrifying reality of guardianship laws
26:22 – Tony fights for guardianship — not for access, not for Abby — just for control and the piece of paper
27:25 – The light bulb moment: going to the GP, starting antidepressants, trying to hold herself together for the court process
28:34 – Surviving the court case; the system failing her — safety orders that were meaningless to him
29:44 – Abby at 9 or 10, coming out the door begging not to be sent back; Jackie sends the email and says she is not going back — and Tony never comes looking
31:01 – Tony's career as a "close protection specialist" — the irony of an abuser now working in personal security for women
32:01 – Why Jackie didn't pursue criminal charges: safety orders were already being ignored; going further could have got her killed
32:28 – Balancing Abby's needs with older children Caitlin and Sean; the impossible juggle
33:10 – Going to the guards over the years: mostly dismissed, told to "have a talk with him"; a New Year's Eve beating, running to the Garda station in her pyjamas
34:40 – The physical reality of the abuse: being picked up by the hair, flung against walls, degraded — "you weren't a human to him"
35:50 – Tony now works in security; Jackie's son witnessed the abuse and hates him
36:35 – The one thing Tony always did: paid maintenance — but used it as control and public image
37:40 – Walking into Aoibhneas for the first time; meeting a support worker and offloading years of fear in one sitting
38:39 – PTSD mentioned for the first time; Jackie's instinct was "that's army stuff, not me" — until a psychologist confirmed it too
39:16 – The long process of unravelling, validation, and realising she wasn't crazy
39:47 – Understanding coercive control and the pattern of abuse; the red flags she never had names for
40:43 – Leanne describes how abuse slowly erodes a person — like wet sand, washed out to sea — and the difficulty of coming back
41:47 – Watching the adverse childhood experiences video in a group session: realising the impact on her children; obsessing over it for weeks
42:38 – Survival instinct: knowing she was easy prey, knowing he was a predator who chose her deliberately
43:21 – Not telling people for years; telling them only in bits; being told by some to "just move on"
44:17 – A work night out: Tony assaults Jackie at the cigarette machine, watched deliberately; a colleague brushes it off afterwards
45:15 – Running for a taxi after a pub night, hearing footsteps — Tony grabs her dress in the middle of the main street; a stranger shouts him off
46:01 – The threat of having her killed; calculating her burial location — "he thought about that, he didn't just say it"
46:49 – Confiding in Tony's sister and mother; realising later they were keeping her quiet to protect his brother's public profile in a well-known Irish band
48:13 – Tony's public persona vs. reality; his family now barely around
48:35 – Jackie's mum gets sick with lung cancer; Jackie is there when she passes
48:49 – A nurse asks at her mother's deathbed whether she had autism — and everything about Jackie's childhood suddenly makes sense
49:36 – The grief and guilt that hit a year after her mother's death: she had been angry for so long, and now it all made sense
50:42 – Jackie's mother's time in a home as a teenager; questions Jackie still wants to research for her book
52:16 – If she could say anything to her mum now: just wishing she could hold her
53:21 – Jackie's father: she became his carer for two years despite everything; he told her she wasn't his — she and her brother did an ancestry DNA test
55:24 – The Make-A-Wish trip for Abby: worrying about her dad the whole time instead of being present
55:47 – Who is Jackie now? A very different person. Doesn't take shit. Moved to a cottage by the sea.
56:27 – Abby today: finished a PLC with nine distinctions, largely home-schooled, strong, focused, and thriving
57:08 – Jackie clued in to red flags now; pointing them out to her kids without making it heavy
57:44 – Abby being bullied in secondary school; Jackie's decision to home-school rather than fight a system that wouldn't listen
58:47 – The different kind of fighter Jackie is now compared to who she was
59:07 – Anger that serves her now: knowing she would drag him through the courts today without hesitation
59:59 – Life is good; Abby is in a very good place; contentment that was hard won
01:00:23 – Jackie's advice to anyone still in it: don't ignore red flags, don't be afraid to talk, believe in your own experience
01:00:44 – The services Jackie wishes she'd found sooner; encouraging older women especially to reach out
01:01:28 – Domestic violence helpline: Saoirse on 1800 911 221; community services available whether you leave or stay
01:01:51 – Leanne speaks to what the pod witnesses and what domestic violence services can offer; emotional and physical safety
01:02:09 – Orla calls Jackie an absolute warrior woman; tears that will always be there because the story always will be
01:02:50 – Jackie's book: a chapter she wasn't ready to write yet, but one she will
01:03:03 – Jackie's song:
Celebrate Me by Sandi Thom — the lyrics sum up everything she's been through and everything she's walking into next
01:03:37 – Looking forward: excitement about the next chapter; hopes for a live show at the Olympia; the book
01:04:10 – Sign-off: how to reach the pod, DV services, and the reason How's Your Ma exists — to witness people and help them find their way