1 00:00:05,125 --> 00:00:06,706 Good morning Grid Connections listeners. 2 00:00:06,706 --> 00:00:14,998 Welcome back to Grid Connections, the podcast where we explore all things transportation, clean energy, and our power grid connecting all of these systems together. 3 00:00:14,998 --> 00:00:21,798 In today's episode, we're joined by Corey Cantor, research director at the Zero Mission Transportation Association or Zeta for short. 4 00:00:21,798 --> 00:00:29,825 His role in the conversation we had takes a data-driven look at the EV transition from public charging visibility to the scale of U.S. 5 00:00:29,825 --> 00:00:31,446 manufacturing jobs. 6 00:00:31,567 --> 00:00:40,574 shares what the numbers really say about market growth, consumer confidence, and how battery prices are quietly transforming everything from passenger cars to school buses. 7 00:00:40,574 --> 00:00:51,290 We also dig into policies like the 30 D clean vehicle credit and the 45 X manufacturing tax credits and why building a domestic supply chain is about more than just cars. 8 00:00:51,290 --> 00:00:55,092 It's about economic competitiveness and industrial resilience. 9 00:00:55,092 --> 00:01:01,775 Some of the takeaways from this episode, we cover why battery prices are the real unsung hero of the EV boom. 10 00:01:01,775 --> 00:01:10,270 What the data says about consumer barriers and how they're shifting, how visibility and proximity to charging stations influence buyer intent. 11 00:01:10,270 --> 00:01:15,824 and what's happening across the EV ecosystem from lamppost chargers to lithium mines. 12 00:01:15,824 --> 00:01:25,130 If you're curious about where EV adoption is headed and what's working behind the scenes to drive it, this is an episode you don't want to miss, but please do us a favor. 13 00:01:25,130 --> 00:01:30,833 If you join this episode, share it with one person who might love it too, and leave us a positive review on your podcast app. 14 00:01:30,833 --> 00:01:32,815 It really does help us grow. 15 00:01:32,815 --> 00:01:34,326 Plus we've got a big announcement. 16 00:01:34,326 --> 00:01:35,146 We just launched 17 00:01:35,146 --> 00:01:41,139 Grid Connections Consulting, helping partners make sense of the evolving EV and electrification landscape. 18 00:01:41,139 --> 00:01:44,680 Be sure to check it out at gridconnections.co. 19 00:01:44,700 --> 00:01:52,603 And don't forget to sign up for our new newsletter as well using the link in the show notes to get even more insights from Grid Connections delivered straight to your inbox. 20 00:01:52,603 --> 00:01:54,629 With that, enjoy. 21 00:01:59,754 --> 00:02:01,167 Thank you so much for having me, Chase. 22 00:02:01,167 --> 00:02:07,501 Yeah, always really a good time to talk about electric vehicles and kind of nerd out on different aspects of the transition. 23 00:02:07,501 --> 00:02:09,104 So appreciate you having me. 24 00:02:09,889 --> 00:02:10,389 Our pleasure. 25 00:02:10,389 --> 00:02:19,629 And we'll have links to some of the previous episodes we've had with Zeta, but just in case anyone listening today isn't familiar with what your team does, can you just share a 26 00:02:19,629 --> 00:02:23,997 little bit background about the organization and then what you do at Zeta as well. 27 00:02:24,402 --> 00:02:38,118 Yeah, so we are a trade association that represents the EV and battery supply chain, advocating for more investment in the US EV and battery supply chain, more jobs across, 28 00:02:38,118 --> 00:02:46,601 you all the way from critical mineral producers to EV OEMs to battery manufacturers and charging companies. 29 00:02:46,601 --> 00:02:53,604 so Zeta Works is based down in DC, focusing on a lot of the major federal incentive and 30 00:02:53,984 --> 00:03:00,367 policy issues down there, and also works hard to make sure that the industry's perspective is heard. 31 00:03:00,367 --> 00:03:07,691 And then within the kind of Zeta team, on the research side, I like to think of myself as a support player among many of our functions. 32 00:03:07,691 --> 00:03:18,227 So whether it's communications and conversations like we're having here today, we're helping our great Hill staff work on their kind of federal affairs strategy with more 33 00:03:18,227 --> 00:03:21,369 research and data and policy as well. 34 00:03:21,369 --> 00:03:23,580 So a little bit of everything, Chase. 35 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:24,987 trying to mix it up here. 36 00:03:26,017 --> 00:03:36,415 Well, I think as the research director, let's, mean, are there, what are the trends that you're seeing that are really kind of maybe standing out to you right now, or maybe things 37 00:03:36,415 --> 00:03:42,269 that you're not, you don't think are getting enough attention that is really kind of coming out with the data that your team's finding. 38 00:03:43,016 --> 00:03:53,403 Yeah, I I think when it comes to EV transition in general, right, there is so much news on a weekly basis or a daily basis that there isn't often enough stepping back to just see 39 00:03:53,403 --> 00:04:00,368 how far the industry has come in a fairly short period of time, both kind of globally, but then also in the U.S. 40 00:04:00,368 --> 00:04:01,549 perspective. 41 00:04:02,256 --> 00:04:09,034 You know, I went to graduate school in 2017 and that was the first time global passenger EV sales hit one million units. 42 00:04:09,034 --> 00:04:12,206 That was, I guess, eight years ago now. 43 00:04:12,312 --> 00:04:15,783 And the whole global industry doubled in about a two year time. 44 00:04:15,783 --> 00:04:21,835 So went into grad school, left grad school, and it was twice as big at 2 million units. 45 00:04:21,835 --> 00:04:25,936 Last year, global passenger EV sales hit 17 million units. 46 00:04:25,936 --> 00:04:32,278 again, just magnitudes larger in such a short period of time, reaching about 20 % of all new car sales. 47 00:04:32,278 --> 00:04:33,708 That's a really positive story. 48 00:04:33,708 --> 00:04:36,619 And the US has kind of followed that trend. 49 00:04:37,399 --> 00:04:40,640 We saw about a million units being broken for the first time. 50 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:46,220 back in 2023 and then in 2024, EV sales here in the US grew by about 21%. 51 00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:50,140 That's including both battery electric and plug-in hybrid for that data. 52 00:04:50,220 --> 00:04:53,220 For fully electric vehicles, up about 15%. 53 00:04:53,220 --> 00:04:55,960 But it's this constant kind of improvement. 54 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:02,100 Another metric I think that a lot of people in the industry and I'm sure your listeners have heard is electric vehicle share of sales, right? 55 00:05:02,100 --> 00:05:07,072 So when I started my previous role, which was at Bloomberg NEF, a research firm, 56 00:05:07,072 --> 00:05:10,892 EV share of sale in the US in 2019 was about 2%. 57 00:05:10,892 --> 00:05:14,252 And last year we were at 10 % in 2024. 58 00:05:14,252 --> 00:05:17,612 So that's in about a five year period growing by 5x. 59 00:05:17,612 --> 00:05:18,812 It's a positive story. 60 00:05:18,812 --> 00:05:24,432 And it's not to say we can't get into some real challenges and uncertainty that the industry is facing. 61 00:05:24,872 --> 00:05:31,852 But we're talking about fundamentally changing the automotive industry, something that hasn't happened for about 100 years. 62 00:05:31,852 --> 00:05:32,168 So. 63 00:05:32,168 --> 00:05:36,424 It's really exciting and you have to kind of step back and see the forest for the trees sometimes. 64 00:05:36,424 --> 00:05:43,784 And I think if you're working around all these companies, it's really fun and interesting to see all of the kind of different approaches to the transition. 65 00:05:45,057 --> 00:05:46,558 Yeah, I think that's a great call out. 66 00:05:46,558 --> 00:05:50,579 was at the EV charging summit and expo last week. 67 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:57,832 And I think there were maybe some people who were either newer to the industry or kind of like down on just some of the headlines and news out there. 68 00:05:57,832 --> 00:06:07,276 But when you start talking about like how quickly this transition has happened, mean, one of the big things I like to always remind people is EVs have been a thing for the last 69 00:06:07,276 --> 00:06:14,089 decade, but it's actually only within the last few years that there are electric vehicles that consumers can buy sometimes. 70 00:06:14,261 --> 00:06:19,903 out of their price range, but there weren't even electric trucks until just a few years ago. 71 00:06:19,903 --> 00:06:21,874 So much of the American automotive segment. 72 00:06:21,874 --> 00:06:26,826 And now we're not only seeing more of these, but we're finally starting to see even that start to come down and cost. 73 00:06:27,506 --> 00:06:36,990 and I think in addition to that, something you hit on that's really, just wild to me is not only is the EV market growing. 74 00:06:37,430 --> 00:06:44,205 And part of that is now due to more and more of these different vehicle types being available for consumers and businesses alike. 75 00:06:44,205 --> 00:06:51,705 But it's also the domestic auto market, at least last year for 2024 was actually shrinking and not doing very well. 76 00:06:51,705 --> 00:06:56,505 So I think there was a lot of stuff kind of getting conflated with, the automotive market's not doing well. 77 00:06:56,505 --> 00:07:02,645 It must be electric vehicles or why, but in reality it was the actual combustion or electric vehicle. 78 00:07:02,645 --> 00:07:04,965 The actual total automotive market was shrinking. 79 00:07:04,965 --> 00:07:13,345 And yet during all of that and some of the headwinds, the actual electric vehicle slice of that pie was still growing at a pretty impressive rate. 80 00:07:13,952 --> 00:07:16,292 No, I mean, if you look at this kind of in the U.S. 81 00:07:16,292 --> 00:07:20,352 market, we have a good stat that we actually put up on our Zeta website. 82 00:07:20,412 --> 00:07:24,232 Just the compound annual growth rate of these kind of alternative drive trains. 83 00:07:24,232 --> 00:07:29,512 So BEVs, PHABs, and also hybrids are really impressive over the past decade. 84 00:07:29,512 --> 00:07:40,412 mean, BEVs and PHABs were both growing by a CAGR, which is awkward word to say, but about 42 % for both over that kind of 2015 to 2024 period. 85 00:07:40,412 --> 00:07:44,212 And then hybrids in the conventional sense were about 19%. 86 00:07:44,435 --> 00:07:54,840 Which is you nothing this loud chat given that they had made up a good portion of sales already So it is exciting to see and I think there is a lot of kind of short-term 87 00:07:54,840 --> 00:08:06,425 uncertainty for the auto market overall But on the whole you just see so many more OEMs releasing EV models than even two or three years ago And everyone like you kind of alluded 88 00:08:06,425 --> 00:08:13,184 to is offering different price points or different kind of segments but that's a landmark shift from 89 00:08:13,184 --> 00:08:20,916 you know, 2017, where there was one major US automaker and, you know, maybe a few kinds of models with much more limited range. 90 00:08:22,477 --> 00:08:24,137 Yeah, I think that's totally true. 91 00:08:24,137 --> 00:08:35,757 mean, back in 2017, was the model three was like just now coming out and otherwise it was mostly their sedan and like the Nissan Leaf and within as crazy it is eight years, we now 92 00:08:35,757 --> 00:08:38,856 have so many more other sedan options at all sorts of price ranges. 93 00:08:38,856 --> 00:08:42,137 have the entry of electric trucks and a lot of these things. 94 00:08:42,137 --> 00:08:49,477 I think that really make it a much better proposition for the average American consumer to really go electric. 95 00:08:50,271 --> 00:08:58,596 Obviously the second part of that is once you've got electric to seven that infrastructure there to support it and There there was actually some really interesting data that your 96 00:08:58,596 --> 00:09:10,003 team shared And I think it was kind of like as of February 2025 if I'm reading this correctly, there were over 75,000 public charging locations and What's fascinating too was 97 00:09:10,003 --> 00:09:17,759 like obviously California's kind of been known as like the EV Electric vehicle kind of hub for the past decade, but there's now more 98 00:09:17,759 --> 00:09:19,983 EV charging ports than there are gas nozzles. 99 00:09:19,983 --> 00:09:27,815 And I'm kind of curious to kind of maybe unpack a little bit more of that and what your team is seeing and understanding around just the rollout of the infrastructure. 100 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:33,884 Yeah, I mean, I think on that point, Chase, so again, I live in New York City in Brooklyn. 101 00:09:33,965 --> 00:09:42,472 And a couple of years ago, maybe it was last year, maybe two years ago, there was a piece saying that there were more EV charging ports than gas stations on Manhattan. 102 00:09:42,472 --> 00:09:45,714 Now, if you're familiar with Manhattan, there aren't a ton of gas stations there. 103 00:09:45,714 --> 00:09:53,436 But the overall point is that, yeah, I think that so much of the kind of early stage of EVs, there's been this thinking of 104 00:09:53,436 --> 00:09:59,239 know, anxiety or charging anxiety, this is so much more difficult because it's not like our gas station experience. 105 00:09:59,239 --> 00:10:08,245 But when you kind of add all of the different ways that you can charge, you know, from level two chargers that are being built from fast charging stations that are being built 106 00:10:08,245 --> 00:10:17,650 across the country, you begin to see that what, you know, is initially kind of a barrier or challenge for EV adoption will eventually, I think, become something really beneficial. 107 00:10:17,650 --> 00:10:21,638 You know, my dad and sister both have an EV and I think 108 00:10:21,638 --> 00:10:25,820 once you make the shift to an electric vehicle, you treat it so much more like a phone. 109 00:10:25,820 --> 00:10:27,451 And I'm sure many of your listeners feel that way. 110 00:10:27,451 --> 00:10:36,104 You're topping off in a different way than you did for gas when maybe you were only going, when you were at 25 % of a tank with EVs. 111 00:10:36,104 --> 00:10:39,056 If you're like, know, it makes sense to charge a little bit. 112 00:10:39,056 --> 00:10:43,537 And there's a well-known Department of Energy stat that 80 % of charging takes place at home. 113 00:10:44,018 --> 00:10:46,789 And so a lot of people have that really positive charging experience. 114 00:10:46,789 --> 00:10:49,536 And OEMs, in fact, are encouraging more home charging with 115 00:10:49,536 --> 00:10:55,076 you know, including a home charger in the case of some like Ford or other particular incentives. 116 00:10:55,396 --> 00:11:06,596 Now on the stat that we sent you over around the, uh, you know, 75,000 public charging locations and the 221,000, you know, give or take, uh, connectors, you know, that's 117 00:11:06,596 --> 00:11:08,056 doubled since 2021. 118 00:11:08,056 --> 00:11:10,256 So again, it's moving in the right direction. 119 00:11:10,256 --> 00:11:13,016 I think there is still a long way to go. 120 00:11:13,016 --> 00:11:17,996 California is a really robust market that has been working on charging infrastructure for 10 years. 121 00:11:18,016 --> 00:11:24,636 and new programs federally have kind of helped hone everyone else to kind of focus on charging. 122 00:11:25,176 --> 00:11:33,056 But I think DOE even said last year that 1,000 new charging connectors were being added every week in 2024. 123 00:11:33,616 --> 00:11:34,716 progress, right? 124 00:11:34,716 --> 00:11:39,836 So mean, so much of this stuff is we've come such a long way and there's still quite a bit to go. 125 00:11:39,836 --> 00:11:43,849 But if you're looking to buy an EV, we touched on the... 126 00:11:43,849 --> 00:11:46,202 kind of upfront cost and we're touching on the charging. 127 00:11:46,202 --> 00:11:50,578 Those are the two things that have improved dramatically in even two years time. 128 00:11:51,851 --> 00:12:00,126 Yeah, and I think I was just even recently reminded I mean you're talking about like level two charging and Just with the V charging summit. 129 00:12:00,126 --> 00:12:12,482 I was at last week obviously DC fast charging has a large role to play in this transition but I was just even reminded through the conversations I had there and then a couple 130 00:12:12,482 --> 00:12:20,991 months ago we had a rental and we have two electric vehicles and At that rental there was only level one charging and both my wife and I drive quite a bit we 131 00:12:20,991 --> 00:12:29,438 Easily do 30,000 miles a year and it was kind of wild to be in this rental where we were both charging our Cars on the same thing. 132 00:12:29,438 --> 00:12:40,009 We charge our toothbrushes on our electric toothbrushes on and I was surprised how Easy it was and how well it worked not like as far as like they're being a failure or something, 133 00:12:40,009 --> 00:12:43,901 but I've just like And maybe it's just because we've had a V's for a while. 134 00:12:43,901 --> 00:12:48,104 I had a feeling like I thought it's just gonna be much more of attention 135 00:12:48,725 --> 00:13:01,070 And it just to me shows that there's so much opportunity for like even especially you in New York area, like talk of like using light lamp posts and other kind of areas to just 136 00:13:01,070 --> 00:13:08,393 even get level one for like on street parking and those sorts of things more easy, easily accessible for more people. 137 00:13:08,682 --> 00:13:11,454 There is so much innovation in charging. 138 00:13:11,894 --> 00:13:24,473 Plenty of friends or companies that I know well here, friends doing startups like It's Electric or a bunch of lamppost charging companies coming out of New Lab, which is kind 139 00:13:24,473 --> 00:13:26,544 clean energy hub here in New York City. 140 00:13:27,965 --> 00:13:32,969 I think it also goes to your point, Chase, of like how big this whole EV ecosystem is. 141 00:13:32,969 --> 00:13:37,822 know, a lot of friends who aren't familiar with the transition will just assume that like 142 00:13:37,886 --> 00:13:40,378 the major OEMs are the companies that are invested. 143 00:13:40,378 --> 00:13:47,304 And then you're like, well, there's also these big charging companies that are doing fast charging, but there's also these level two charging companies. 144 00:13:47,785 --> 00:13:52,729 And there's all the upstream, you know, folks who are working on the materials and the battery manufacturers. 145 00:13:52,729 --> 00:13:58,695 it's, it's so much bigger and I think more interesting than you might just, and I like cars. 146 00:13:58,695 --> 00:13:59,806 I love reading about the cars. 147 00:13:59,806 --> 00:14:04,680 I'm going to go with my dad and maybe fiance to the car show. 148 00:14:04,690 --> 00:14:06,460 in New York in a couple of weeks. 149 00:14:06,501 --> 00:14:13,522 So yeah, we could talk about how exciting it is to see all the new product and how much better they've gotten, but it's a broad ecosystem here. 150 00:14:13,563 --> 00:14:15,023 City charging is tough though. 151 00:14:15,023 --> 00:14:22,195 I don't want to say there's a lot of kind of permitting issues and challenges around the topic, but people are invested in making it work. 152 00:14:22,195 --> 00:14:27,907 And I think that's another big change as more and more companies have put out compelling EVs and Americans are buying them. 153 00:14:27,907 --> 00:14:32,058 More and more people see the opportunity there to kind of aid the transition. 154 00:14:32,833 --> 00:14:40,519 Well, and you guys are also spoiled in the New York area with the ultimate electric vehicle of just the subway system and you don't have to worry about charging at all there. 155 00:14:40,519 --> 00:14:45,983 So, but I think those are totally fair call outs and I think let's let you're right. 156 00:14:45,983 --> 00:14:47,554 Let's kind of go up the supply chain. 157 00:14:47,554 --> 00:14:56,350 And I think that's what's really fascinating about some of the things that Zeta deals with is you pretty much have the full supply chain as far as clients. 158 00:14:56,550 --> 00:15:00,573 And I think the battery materials, I mean, obviously like 159 00:15:00,653 --> 00:15:10,333 A lot of the focus of these tariffs and other things that have been kind of going in, uh, are around trying to promote and facilitate even more domestic manufacturing and supply 160 00:15:10,333 --> 00:15:11,233 chain. 161 00:15:11,233 --> 00:15:18,073 But I, so I love to kind of hear what your clients in that realm are kind of focused on. 162 00:15:18,073 --> 00:15:26,033 And maybe some of the things that, especially for those listening who are maybe more focused on the cars and the charging infrastructure. 163 00:15:26,257 --> 00:15:31,125 what they're maybe not thinking about or just haven't heard about in those conversations. 164 00:15:31,232 --> 00:15:42,672 Yeah, I mean, one big picture way to look at this is, and this is according to Atlas Public Policy, there's been about $190 billion just since 2020 invested in the EV and 165 00:15:42,672 --> 00:15:44,632 battery supply chain here in the US. 166 00:15:44,652 --> 00:15:56,672 So that includes everything from your lithium miners and lithium mines through what we've referred to as the midstream, which is around the cathode and anode materials that go into 167 00:15:56,672 --> 00:15:58,672 batteries as well as refining. 168 00:15:58,956 --> 00:16:10,165 which needs a little bit more focus or a lot of bit more focus here in the US to battery cells and there are many producers here who are Zeta members who working on that important 169 00:16:10,165 --> 00:16:12,277 work to the cars themselves. 170 00:16:12,277 --> 00:16:20,153 And then even after that, you've got charging and grid integration all the way down to what are you going to do with an EV battery in 10 to 15 years? 171 00:16:20,153 --> 00:16:21,514 You know, does it have a second life? 172 00:16:21,514 --> 00:16:24,306 Does it have the ability to get recycled? 173 00:16:24,528 --> 00:16:26,399 So I kind of listed out a bunch right there. 174 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:30,032 mean, there's data members at pretty much every single one of those points. 175 00:16:30,193 --> 00:16:40,811 And I think, you know, from each of their perspectives, the importance of the industry growth is paramount because having that kind of policy certainty in place, having a kind 176 00:16:40,811 --> 00:16:44,864 of robust EV market allows every aspect of the supply chain to flourish. 177 00:16:44,864 --> 00:16:45,104 Right? 178 00:16:45,104 --> 00:16:51,008 If you know that consumers are going to buy EVs, you can open up new facilities and battery factories to support those. 179 00:16:51,072 --> 00:16:52,053 electric vehicles. 180 00:16:52,053 --> 00:16:57,636 If you know that there are going to be more EVs, then you can build out charging or you can build out battery recycling. 181 00:16:58,017 --> 00:17:03,681 And so just like I'm sure you know, in the automotive industry in general, having that policy certainty is important. 182 00:17:03,681 --> 00:17:12,627 And that's why Zeta has worked hard for advocating for credits like the 30D, clean car tax credit and 45X, a lot of that manufacturing. 183 00:17:12,627 --> 00:17:15,179 And it's a lot of jobs across the country. 184 00:17:15,179 --> 00:17:19,936 And Zeta has been hard at work kind of bringing awareness to many of these 185 00:17:19,936 --> 00:17:28,056 regions that have been seeing kind of a battery boom, whether you're talking about a place like Savannah, Georgia or Reno, Nevada, or many different parts of the country. 186 00:17:29,483 --> 00:17:37,646 Yeah, and I'm kind of curious when you're talking about the supply chain I mean obviously people think like lithium mining or sometimes cobalt and some of these other things I'm 187 00:17:37,646 --> 00:17:47,522 kind of curious like is What are you hearing from some of these it's like what is needed more because obviously I think for a while there there was a big push about like the need 188 00:17:47,522 --> 00:17:54,044 for graphite and maybe that wasn't kind of getting the Coverage or I mean you kind of have to go into a pretty 189 00:17:55,039 --> 00:18:02,766 In-depth conversation with people in the industry to know like that's actually something that was kind of more needed in the battery pack side And i'm kind of curious if you've 190 00:18:02,766 --> 00:18:12,105 just heard any shifts because there have been a lot of talks about more Of the manufacturing and mining domestic especially for like lithium but if there's kind of any 191 00:18:12,105 --> 00:18:17,009 Advances you've heard in that or what are still kind of like the pain points for? 192 00:18:17,991 --> 00:18:20,703 What's needed most from those suppliers? 193 00:18:21,620 --> 00:18:29,705 I mean, you I'm not going to speak for, think, any of the individual companies just because, you you're welcome to have them on the show and kind of ask their approach. 194 00:18:29,926 --> 00:18:41,073 I think this idea of when you look at building up a robust market, even in places like Europe or China, took, you know, it wasn't like a light switch, right? 195 00:18:41,073 --> 00:18:51,320 You look at Norway, which is the kind of quintessential EV market example, or even California, it takes time and policy certainty to kind of level that out. 196 00:18:51,452 --> 00:19:04,628 So Zeta has been working hard to point out the benefits of things like 30D's demand pull or the 45X Advanced Manufacturing Credit on not only battery manufacturing, but around 197 00:19:04,628 --> 00:19:05,419 critical minerals. 198 00:19:05,419 --> 00:19:16,392 And in both cases, 30D being so stringent around what critical minerals or what battery components you can use, that kind of overall kind of symbiosis. 199 00:19:16,392 --> 00:19:28,239 I think is important and having the certainty that if a company is making these investments to have the kind of runway to see that the landscape won't necessarily change 200 00:19:28,239 --> 00:19:29,199 too much. 201 00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,242 Again, every aspect of the supply chain is a little bit different. 202 00:19:33,242 --> 00:19:37,044 If you're a charging company, you have different needs than if you're, let's say, a lithium mine. 203 00:19:37,044 --> 00:19:41,327 But each of these folks are a little bit interdependent on the other. 204 00:19:41,327 --> 00:19:42,607 It's not like... 205 00:19:43,879 --> 00:19:50,022 You know, one part of the supply chain, if it's overly vulnerable, doesn't create a gap. 206 00:19:50,022 --> 00:19:54,344 But I think what's so great about the work that Zeta is doing is we really are focused on each of it. 207 00:19:54,344 --> 00:19:58,726 And our members are pretty enthusiastic about the transition. 208 00:19:58,726 --> 00:20:09,111 mean, talking about just the kind of paradigm shift from even a couple of years ago, you're hearing folks across the kind of political spectrum recognize that the EV 209 00:20:09,111 --> 00:20:10,611 transition is now. 210 00:20:11,614 --> 00:20:12,756 And I think that's exciting too. 211 00:20:12,756 --> 00:20:14,218 And I think that's an important step. 212 00:20:14,218 --> 00:20:16,971 So it's not necessarily a policy ask, Chase. 213 00:20:17,453 --> 00:20:27,026 There are plenty of policy asks I think that all these groups have, but it's really a recognition that everyone has got to kind of work together to kind of build out this EV 214 00:20:27,026 --> 00:20:28,768 ecosystem here in the US. 215 00:20:29,165 --> 00:20:33,425 Yeah, I think that's a great call and maybe it would also help to kind of take a step back. 216 00:20:33,425 --> 00:20:36,405 I mean, obviously you've kind of alluded to a couple of these. 217 00:20:38,561 --> 00:20:46,225 I guess the 45X, some of those policies are kind of helping implement and make this happen. 218 00:20:46,225 --> 00:20:54,748 For those who are listening who may not be familiar, could you share a little bit more detail about what those are specifically and then maybe some of the positive outcomes and 219 00:20:54,748 --> 00:20:56,029 wins we've seen from. 220 00:20:56,736 --> 00:21:02,696 Yeah, I'll give a high level, just because we got a great policy team and a great policy director. 221 00:21:02,696 --> 00:21:05,956 so also a good guest for future episodes. 222 00:21:05,996 --> 00:21:09,276 But 30D is what is typically referred to as the clean car tax credit. 223 00:21:09,276 --> 00:21:16,576 That's your $7,500 for consumers who go out and purchase an electric vehicle. 224 00:21:17,936 --> 00:21:23,796 A couple of years ago, they made some changes to 30D to tie it much more closely to on-shoring. 225 00:21:24,092 --> 00:21:33,620 or friendshoring with US free trade agreement allies or being final assembly here in North America to qualify for the credit. 226 00:21:33,620 --> 00:21:43,628 So when you've seen automakers move their production of electric vehicles to the US, typically it's been so that their vehicle can have access to the 30 D tax credit and the 227 00:21:43,848 --> 00:21:49,372 IRS and Treasury have a list of which cars are qualifying and it has changed a little bit from year to year. 228 00:21:50,474 --> 00:21:53,664 There's also additional credits around commercial vehicles. 229 00:21:53,664 --> 00:22:00,224 that also offer either $7,500 or more if it's a kind of electric truck. 230 00:22:00,224 --> 00:22:09,784 And then 45X is a per kilowatt hour kind of subsidy for battery manufacturing or kind of percentage around critical minerals. 231 00:22:09,784 --> 00:22:20,504 So 35 for sell and $10 per kilowatt hour per pack, you know, has a benefit differently depending on how your joint venture or your company is set up. 232 00:22:20,504 --> 00:22:22,484 But each of these policies, 233 00:22:22,484 --> 00:22:31,312 were devised in a way that could encourage more people to change their suppliers and bring them closer here to the US. 234 00:22:31,313 --> 00:22:44,946 so Zeta has been hard at work and our Federal Affairs team has been working hard to just show that it's not just about the incentive, but really the incentive is tied to many of 235 00:22:44,946 --> 00:22:46,836 these manufacturing facilities. 236 00:22:46,836 --> 00:22:50,260 that are either built here in the US or about to be built. 237 00:22:50,260 --> 00:22:59,268 That kind of demand pull is important because if you're an OEM, you want to make sure that people are able to afford the cars and that you're making a worthwhile investment. 238 00:23:00,129 --> 00:23:01,069 Thank you. 239 00:23:01,149 --> 00:23:09,713 And I think that totally makes sense as far as what we're seeing with that kind of consistency and growth and having those systems in place. 240 00:23:10,734 --> 00:23:20,418 I guess to take a little step back to the charging side of stuff, I know some of the research you've done, one of the slides you kind of shared with me in advance, that was 241 00:23:20,418 --> 00:23:20,888 interesting. 242 00:23:20,888 --> 00:23:28,261 And I, I don't think it was terribly surprising, but just kind of having the data around it was around like the perceived barriers to buying electric cars. 243 00:23:28,901 --> 00:23:38,384 How they've kind of changed over time and the kind of three that you cited or showed were kind of like low mileage range they're too expensive and then lack of charging stations 244 00:23:38,824 --> 00:23:50,868 and It's been interesting to see how that's kind of changed over time and I'd be just kind of curious to expand upon that and what you're seeing and Maybe like how you're kind of 245 00:23:50,868 --> 00:23:55,859 talking with these and what what that's what those conversations are leading to from this research 246 00:23:56,592 --> 00:24:05,246 Yeah, I mean, and so to give kudos to Cox Automotive, who puts out a survey every year tracking consumer behavior and a lot of good firms who work on that issue. 247 00:24:05,246 --> 00:24:06,977 JD Power is another one. 248 00:24:07,092 --> 00:24:14,871 I think it's the way I've always tried to frame this is if you're addressing the major issues that people have with a product, right, you're going to make them more comfortable 249 00:24:14,871 --> 00:24:15,961 with getting it. 250 00:24:16,421 --> 00:24:22,272 And so seeing things like low mileage range being less of a concern and kind of falling. 251 00:24:22,272 --> 00:24:30,391 Only highlights that you're seeing more and more electric vehicles go for 250 miles on the charge, 300 miles on the charge, 350 miles on a single charge. 252 00:24:30,391 --> 00:24:40,232 And that's a real shift from five years ago, but really 10 years ago, that kind of first gen, second gen Nissan Leaf. 253 00:24:40,652 --> 00:24:46,012 On charging, as we kind of discussed, more and more people are seeing charging stations around them. 254 00:24:46,012 --> 00:24:51,082 In the deck I sent you, I thought you were gonna go in this direction, Chase, around the Pew Research study that shows 255 00:24:51,082 --> 00:24:56,577 Just how different people's behaviors or willingness to buy an EV is when you live a mile away from a charger. 256 00:24:56,577 --> 00:24:58,359 Yeah, I wanted to cover that too. 257 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,833 mean, let's cover anywhere and everywhere you want to go. 258 00:25:01,833 --> 00:25:03,896 Because I mean, you threw all this great data. 259 00:25:03,896 --> 00:25:05,377 I I definitely want to go through it. 260 00:25:05,377 --> 00:25:07,249 It is all really fascinating. 261 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:12,302 But it illustrates that this is something that can change over time. 262 00:25:12,302 --> 00:25:16,823 Alex and the comms team does a lot of great research and say that as well. 263 00:25:16,823 --> 00:25:21,655 it's this idea that perception isn't sunken, right? 264 00:25:21,655 --> 00:25:30,937 That people do have questions and maybe anxieties around switching to electric vehicles, but they aren't necessarily deeply held in a negative sense, right? 265 00:25:30,937 --> 00:25:33,208 I think people are more and more willing to learn more. 266 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:42,980 And then finally, on the kind of expensive, we talked a little bit about this, but I think to just reiterate this point, if you go to Edmunds and you look at the average new vehicle 267 00:25:42,980 --> 00:25:52,420 price and the last year, beginning of this year, all pre kind of the current tariff conversation, but about $50,000. 268 00:25:52,440 --> 00:26:01,800 And if you look at the highest selling electric vehicles out there in 2024, a lot of them are in that 40 to $50,000 price range below that kind of average. 269 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,136 So whether you're talking about 270 00:26:03,136 --> 00:26:11,696 you know, the Model Y, whether you're talking about an Equinox, whether you're talking about Equinox EV, talking about Honda Prologue, there are success stories out there as 271 00:26:11,696 --> 00:26:15,816 more and more of the kind of mainstream market has become accessible. 272 00:26:16,176 --> 00:26:24,796 So on each of those three issues that Cox listed in 2023, it's this idea of improvements have been made, but there's more to go. 273 00:26:24,796 --> 00:26:28,256 And I think that's heartening because it's not an insurmountable challenge. 274 00:26:28,256 --> 00:26:32,756 think, frankly, the biggest challenge right now might be the uncertainty around 275 00:26:32,756 --> 00:26:36,861 both federal policy and kind of market conditions. 276 00:26:36,861 --> 00:26:41,176 But the fundamental concern that people have with EVs is moving in the right direction. 277 00:26:41,176 --> 00:26:42,888 I think that's a good thing to see. 278 00:26:43,905 --> 00:26:45,265 Yeah, I completely agree. 279 00:26:45,265 --> 00:26:55,969 I think everything that you shared was really fascinating just because it kind of reinforced a lot of the positive momentum I've seen and kind of made it instead of 280 00:26:55,969 --> 00:26:58,705 anecdotal really drew a lot of those numbers to it. 281 00:26:58,705 --> 00:27:01,830 yeah, let's kind of expand some of these other things that you shared. 282 00:27:01,830 --> 00:27:06,511 think obviously the Pew Research one is really fascinating. 283 00:27:07,112 --> 00:27:11,803 I mean, where do you want to start or what's really staying out to you at the moment? 284 00:27:11,936 --> 00:27:14,916 Yeah, well, let's talk about the Pew Research one since we're on charging. 285 00:27:14,916 --> 00:27:20,416 And then if we want to go, I want to like pull it up in front of myself just so I'm accurately citing it. 286 00:27:20,416 --> 00:27:32,936 But basically what Pew did, and this was released last year, but over kind of a couple of research periods and survey periods, they looked at adults who lived a certain amount of 287 00:27:32,936 --> 00:27:40,876 miles away from a charging station and said, are you likely to consider purchasing an electric vehicle as your next purchase? 288 00:27:41,188 --> 00:27:48,875 or a hybrid vehicle or currently on an EV or hybrid, depending on how far you live to a charging station. 289 00:27:48,875 --> 00:27:59,906 And not surprisingly, those who lived less than a mile away from a charger were somewhat likely to seriously consider purchasing an electric vehicle the next time. 290 00:27:59,906 --> 00:28:04,027 And I'm reading that very carefully because as you know, with any survey, the words you choose is very important. 291 00:28:04,027 --> 00:28:09,834 About 47%, so nearly half of the participants who live less than a mile. 292 00:28:09,834 --> 00:28:20,267 you know, saw this as a positive, you know, future kind of oriented vehicle, one to two miles, a bit less, about 38 % of the respondents. 293 00:28:20,267 --> 00:28:24,508 And then if you were more than two miles, it was about 27%. 294 00:28:24,508 --> 00:28:30,720 So again, that kind of positive relationship, with how close you live to a charger. 295 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,931 Another question was how confident are you that the U S will build out a charging infrastructure network? 296 00:28:35,931 --> 00:28:39,502 And not surprisingly, the closer you live to a charger, the more confident you were. 297 00:28:39,506 --> 00:28:48,638 Again, the confidence level wasn't nearly as high for the charging build out as it was for the considering EV, which means that there's more work to do, I think, in ensuring that 298 00:28:48,638 --> 00:28:49,580 consumers are confident. 299 00:28:49,580 --> 00:28:51,396 Again, the survey was a couple years ago. 300 00:28:51,396 --> 00:28:57,790 I think like anything, you always want the latest data, but stuff like this probably takes a bit longer than other survey types. 301 00:28:58,721 --> 00:29:11,130 Yeah, I think one other interesting thing that I was kind of even reminded again, talking about, just the current state of EV charging this past week at, the EV charging summit was 302 00:29:11,470 --> 00:29:17,414 there's still a lot of work to be done around just the visibility of electric vehicle chargers. 303 00:29:17,515 --> 00:29:17,915 Yeah. 304 00:29:17,915 --> 00:29:23,939 And I'm kind of curious, what your team is seeing or kind of heard around that, because I think that's totally true. 305 00:29:23,939 --> 00:29:26,899 think there's a lot more people that. 306 00:29:26,899 --> 00:29:33,225 are probably a mile or pretty close to you be charting and just probably aren't seeing it visually. 307 00:29:33,225 --> 00:29:34,797 So they don't really realize. 308 00:29:34,797 --> 00:29:36,989 And I think that's what's so important about this dynamic. 309 00:29:36,989 --> 00:29:46,297 When you hear numbers like that about the interest and how that ties to kind of the confidence people have in going electric that a lot of the time, I think there's just a 310 00:29:46,297 --> 00:29:48,339 big challenge in that visibility. 311 00:29:48,896 --> 00:29:52,236 Yeah, I mean, I don't have a research point to kind of direct you towards. 312 00:29:52,236 --> 00:29:53,536 think signs are always a good thing. 313 00:29:53,536 --> 00:29:57,736 And I think also a lot of these EV charging companies are new, right? 314 00:29:57,736 --> 00:30:05,416 Outside of maybe a well established brand, like a Tesla charging that you've heard of other ones, you know, may not be a company you're familiar with, or they're just kind of 315 00:30:05,416 --> 00:30:07,376 building up more and more chargers. 316 00:30:07,376 --> 00:30:16,356 The other thing is, which I'm sure you know, having two EVs is when you own an electric vehicle, the EV itself will direct you towards charging stations, right? 317 00:30:16,356 --> 00:30:18,936 So I think a lot of times the signage is 318 00:30:19,230 --> 00:30:23,102 You know, more so for those who don't own an EV to be like, this is here in real thing. 319 00:30:23,102 --> 00:30:32,766 You're also seeing more electric vehicle charging stations that are designed maybe similarly to a rest stop or a gas station and maybe less that are kind of in a mall back 320 00:30:32,766 --> 00:30:33,926 parking lot. 321 00:30:33,987 --> 00:30:39,929 A lot of interesting articles out over the past year, kind of looking at some of the new companies and their strategy. 322 00:30:39,929 --> 00:30:44,611 And everyone is differing a little bit with how they're playing in the fast charging space. 323 00:30:45,051 --> 00:30:46,612 But yeah, I agree that. 324 00:30:46,612 --> 00:30:54,149 There is a psychological element here and making sure that people understand that there is chargers around them if you don't have an app. 325 00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:55,561 And so it's easy. 326 00:30:55,561 --> 00:30:58,924 In New York, you see on some of the garages that there's EV chargers. 327 00:30:58,924 --> 00:31:07,482 But when it comes to the fast charging, if I wasn't in the EV space and attending events where you hear about Xhub being built out, I wouldn't really know. 328 00:31:08,107 --> 00:31:19,340 Yeah, I think one of the things that stood out to me in the conversation I had was around if you're not a person in the know Yeah, maybe you come up to a Tesla supercharger and 329 00:31:19,340 --> 00:31:20,211 says Tesla on it. 330 00:31:20,211 --> 00:31:28,803 You're like, okay Maybe those are charged but especially if you're by some sort of just average charger and especially if it's like in the back of a lot and there's no car 331 00:31:28,803 --> 00:31:34,839 charging there the average person just assumes like that's electrical trans it's just like something they have no idea what it is and 332 00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:42,937 kind of just blends into the background as like being an electrical transformer or something else versus having that like active perception of seeing a chart like a car 333 00:31:42,937 --> 00:31:45,901 charging in it to know that's what it actually is. 334 00:31:46,441 --> 00:31:49,402 Yeah, I mean, I think that's that's completely spot on. 335 00:31:49,522 --> 00:31:52,634 And I think that's also aligns with when you leave. 336 00:31:52,634 --> 00:31:52,884 Yeah. 337 00:31:52,884 --> 00:32:00,387 The early adopter phase of any technology, right, are going to be really well regarded and well known on a topic. 338 00:32:00,807 --> 00:32:06,480 I mean, I'll even even date myself and say, like, I'm a big Nintendo fan and there's a Nintendo Switch 2 coming out. 339 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:07,470 I'm an early adopter. 340 00:32:07,470 --> 00:32:09,781 know all the details on it and research on it. 341 00:32:09,781 --> 00:32:11,328 And we'll look into it. 342 00:32:11,328 --> 00:32:19,148 but you're selling to a mass market, whether you're an EV company, a video game maker, whoever, when you leave that kind of small phase of the people who are diehards, who 343 00:32:19,148 --> 00:32:30,248 understand charging, who understand range, who understand home charging versus L2 charging versus, I mean, some home charging is L2 charging, versus fast charging, reaching those 344 00:32:30,248 --> 00:32:32,628 new consumers and getting them comfortable is really important. 345 00:32:32,628 --> 00:32:38,548 And the industry has been working hard at it, but it's on all of us together to help explain. 346 00:32:39,486 --> 00:32:40,607 the benefits of charging. 347 00:32:40,607 --> 00:32:52,703 I was at an event where, you know, kind of a round table thing and, you know, two of the benefits I think that were mentioned around EVs, around charging, that again, you have to 348 00:32:52,703 --> 00:32:58,646 restate because people who don't have EVs don't recognize it as one, you know, you never have to go to a gas station again. 349 00:32:59,387 --> 00:33:07,312 And that is such a seismic shift in how you use your driving time that sometimes I think EV owners almost underappreciate it. 350 00:33:07,312 --> 00:33:08,112 You know, 351 00:33:08,222 --> 00:33:11,913 My dad will sometimes say like, it's been X amount of time since I've been at a gas station. 352 00:33:12,034 --> 00:33:14,875 But beyond that, you kind of made the transition and moved on. 353 00:33:14,875 --> 00:33:19,277 The other one is just how affordable a lot of charging is. 354 00:33:19,777 --> 00:33:26,800 Every state has different electricity prices and different moments where electricity may be in higher demand. 355 00:33:26,820 --> 00:33:33,023 But on the whole, there's a lot of benefit and efficiency to electric vehicle charging as well. 356 00:33:33,023 --> 00:33:35,794 So two points that again, until you're like in it, 357 00:33:35,794 --> 00:33:39,686 or you own an EV, you won't necessarily know, but are important to reiterate. 358 00:33:40,673 --> 00:33:54,588 Are there any other things that you've seen or just kind of noticed that are especially around any data that are those kind of mental shift moments that really kind of realign 359 00:33:54,588 --> 00:34:04,081 and make the person think, I didn't really think of it that way or you're finding a lot of success for people to try and get it to really connect with what's actually happening with 360 00:34:04,081 --> 00:34:05,331 electrification. 361 00:34:06,464 --> 00:34:09,004 You know, those are two good points there. 362 00:34:09,004 --> 00:34:12,224 also depends who your audience is or what type of person you're talking to. 363 00:34:12,224 --> 00:34:20,764 think just like in other technologies, when you have friends who own the product, think surveys and data has shown that there's a more positive inclination towards electric 364 00:34:20,764 --> 00:34:24,664 vehicles versus like them being kind of a far off futuristic thing. 365 00:34:24,664 --> 00:34:28,484 like a friend or a colleague or family member has them. 366 00:34:29,204 --> 00:34:33,764 We just, this is a little bit of a tangent, but we just put out a poll. 367 00:34:34,932 --> 00:34:44,705 with a couple of other groups, and I'm even gonna pull up the groups here, basically outlining that electric vehicles kind of across the political spectrum are pretty positive 368 00:34:44,705 --> 00:34:47,336 in terms of Democrats, Republicans, and independents. 369 00:34:47,336 --> 00:34:54,578 so, more and more people see electric vehicle investment here in the US as a important thing. 370 00:34:55,018 --> 00:35:01,152 And so that's another kind of shift on top of just the kind of benefits that you see. 371 00:35:01,152 --> 00:35:03,732 know, of stats that kind of draw people to that space. 372 00:35:03,732 --> 00:35:09,032 But again, people might not be thinking about it, even if it's a point that they agree with, top of mind. 373 00:35:09,852 --> 00:35:18,672 And the overall top line number here and the other groups that we were working with was in releasing the poll with Centerline Liberties and the Conservative Energy Network. 374 00:35:18,792 --> 00:35:28,612 But really, you you saw 85 % of voters believing that, you know, the federal government should support American companies that are aiming to make affordable and powerful electric 375 00:35:28,612 --> 00:35:29,760 vehicles and 376 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,145 76 % of Republicans surveyed felt the same way. 377 00:35:33,145 --> 00:35:37,471 So it's more and more people kind of are seeing the benefits of this EV industry. 378 00:35:37,953 --> 00:35:43,100 But again, I think continuing the conversation or bringing up the kind of advantages and points is key. 379 00:35:43,969 --> 00:35:56,365 Yeah, one of the things you shared with me, kind of before this was around like the, I believe it's a hundred over 157 billion in us, EV battering, critical, critic critical 380 00:35:56,365 --> 00:35:58,986 mineral supply chain investments. 381 00:35:59,147 --> 00:36:03,318 and that's just really since the, by, the infrastructure law was passed. 382 00:36:03,419 --> 00:36:08,203 And if everything kind of falls through and goes forward, that means 383 00:36:08,203 --> 00:36:16,297 You're seeing probably resulting in about a hundred sixty three thousand jobs Do you see that as being a big part of the reason that there's just becoming such a large? 384 00:36:16,338 --> 00:36:28,174 kind of cohesion Between like people just being much more open to and for electric vehicles because I do feel like there has been a pretty big I've been impressed surprised 385 00:36:28,174 --> 00:36:37,395 by not just the Openness to an electric vehicle because I feel like I knew quite a few people across the spectrum politically 386 00:36:37,395 --> 00:36:45,148 that had, some, they were like kind of open to it, but they're like, you know, that's great, but it's not for me. 387 00:36:45,729 --> 00:36:49,641 And now it seems to be like, well, maybe that will be my next car. 388 00:36:49,641 --> 00:36:54,073 And I, I'm curious if there's any other kind of trends around that, that you're seeing in it. 389 00:36:54,073 --> 00:37:02,757 It really seems like in my anecdotal experience, a big piece of that conversation is around account, the job creation and domestic manufacturing. 390 00:37:03,208 --> 00:37:13,496 Yeah, and mean, you're seeing, know, Zeta has cited this quite a bit, about three or four of electric vehicles sold in the US were made in the US. 391 00:37:13,937 --> 00:37:26,417 You've seen, you know, many electric vehicles, final assembly in North America, which is really important, and overall supporting, you know, anywhere between the kind of 190 to 392 00:37:26,417 --> 00:37:31,871 240,000 jobs, depending on how far back you're going to start your data point. 393 00:37:32,648 --> 00:37:44,376 And so it is becoming integrated into the automotive industry in a way that is exciting and interesting to follow and important for the U.S. 394 00:37:44,376 --> 00:37:45,617 in global competitiveness. 395 00:37:45,617 --> 00:37:54,803 know, in a previous life when I was at Bloomberg, you know, did a lot of traveling internationally and went to places like South Korea, Japan, and they're just as passionate 396 00:37:54,803 --> 00:37:59,176 about their automotive base there as Americans are here, for seeing companies succeed. 397 00:37:59,176 --> 00:38:01,728 And I think, you know, there's a pride in it. 398 00:38:01,948 --> 00:38:04,249 many people's livelihoods depending on it. 399 00:38:04,249 --> 00:38:14,553 And every country for the most part now, you know, is invested in the CV transition or working to make some type of clean car transition work. 400 00:38:14,553 --> 00:38:19,916 I won't say that, you know, US, South Korea, Japan, China, EU are all exactly the same in their approaches. 401 00:38:19,916 --> 00:38:26,839 Obviously, they're very different places, but the jobs and supply chain here and impact is real. 402 00:38:26,839 --> 00:38:30,450 And I think that's what Zeta has been pointing out as it's been going. 403 00:38:30,544 --> 00:38:40,882 across the country to show that it's not just about one vehicle or one company or one subsidy, but really global competitiveness and real opportunity here in the US in terms of 404 00:38:40,882 --> 00:38:41,562 work. 405 00:38:42,731 --> 00:38:46,323 Yeah, I mean, that does seem to be a pretty core. 406 00:38:46,323 --> 00:38:54,058 I feel like with some of the international or previously like kind of global messaging around it, obviously a big part of it to start with kind of the environment and there's 407 00:38:54,058 --> 00:39:04,834 still definitely a portion of that, but it really just seems like the biggest thing has been just the connection with messaging globally around the jobs and kind of the future 408 00:39:04,834 --> 00:39:06,685 proofing of industry. 409 00:39:07,646 --> 00:39:10,365 I'm, kind of curious if there's anything kind of 410 00:39:10,365 --> 00:39:19,368 you've talked about in your travels and even some of the slides you shared with me about like Anything different from the u.s's approach versus some of those other countries? 411 00:39:20,369 --> 00:39:31,013 and Obviously some of that may be cultural and other reasons but just kind of any interesting trends or things that You've noticed between the u.s and others abroad around 412 00:39:31,013 --> 00:39:31,773 that 413 00:39:32,772 --> 00:39:41,478 I think to kind of draw something in common and obviously like if we were going into a more technical discussion, there's been different levers pulled depending on what type of 414 00:39:41,478 --> 00:39:49,084 frankly economy or country you're in and don't want to go too far down that road necessarily. 415 00:39:49,084 --> 00:39:57,359 But what I will say is that it's this idea of being invested in the EV transition and putting your foot forward and having policy certainty has served a lot of countries really 416 00:39:57,359 --> 00:39:57,970 well. 417 00:39:57,970 --> 00:40:01,362 Or even if you look at specific state markets in the US, 418 00:40:01,362 --> 00:40:05,693 know, California and Colorado are two that see very high, you know, EV share of sale. 419 00:40:05,693 --> 00:40:12,395 And they've had policy certainty and incentives at the state level and programs to address some of the issues we've discussed. 420 00:40:12,515 --> 00:40:16,796 In Europe, you know, UK is pretty close to a sister market. 421 00:40:16,796 --> 00:40:20,097 They've also had, you know, for a long time, they had purchase incentives. 422 00:40:20,097 --> 00:40:23,758 They have, you know, ride hailing or taxi incentives as well. 423 00:40:23,758 --> 00:40:25,739 And they have different challenges. 424 00:40:25,739 --> 00:40:27,709 I mean, one benefit that we have here in the U.S. 425 00:40:27,709 --> 00:40:30,666 that not every country with high EV adoption has is 426 00:40:30,666 --> 00:40:38,561 We have the automakers here, whether you're talking about the legacy OEMs or the kind of newer EV companies, many of which are Zeta members. 427 00:40:38,581 --> 00:40:40,503 That's something exciting to be a part of. 428 00:40:40,503 --> 00:40:48,888 There are just some companies, excuse me, that maybe do it for an environmental reason or a policy goal. 429 00:40:49,229 --> 00:40:56,674 But here, just as Germany is another example, it's a competitiveness conversation too, right? 430 00:40:56,674 --> 00:41:00,766 Because anytime you're leaving a hole on a global kind of market, 431 00:41:00,828 --> 00:41:02,410 someone may step in. 432 00:41:02,410 --> 00:41:04,462 So it's a big opportunity for the US companies. 433 00:41:04,462 --> 00:41:15,544 I think a lot of them have seen it in terms of upping their investment here in the US, but also thinking about their supply chains in North America. 434 00:41:17,249 --> 00:41:17,529 Yeah. 435 00:41:17,529 --> 00:41:20,610 And I think that's kind of really great to see. 436 00:41:20,610 --> 00:41:27,889 just looking at the members of Zeta and kind of what they're interested in and what they kind of stand for. 437 00:41:27,889 --> 00:41:38,298 It seems like a really interesting alignment around what that kind of future in state is and what obviously the industry is trying to get towards. 438 00:41:38,298 --> 00:41:47,201 I'm curious about, and I mean, a lot of the people who are members of Zeta are 439 00:41:47,809 --> 00:41:54,511 the battery manufacturers are the automotive, some of the automotive startups among others that you mentioned. 440 00:41:54,811 --> 00:41:57,552 Some of the other ones are the utilities. 441 00:41:57,672 --> 00:42:07,275 And I know a lot of what we've kind of talked about so far has been a little bit more on the automotive and the EV charging side, but I'm kind of curious around any of the data. 442 00:42:07,275 --> 00:42:15,392 Cause just because that's such a fundamental piece, especially once you get, getting into like the large, not just DC fast charging, but even like fleet electrification. 443 00:42:15,392 --> 00:42:16,398 application. 444 00:42:16,862 --> 00:42:22,036 I'm just curious around that and what you're hearing and seeing from members in the space. 445 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:28,323 Yeah, I mean, I wish I had a better utility point in the slide deck I sent you. 446 00:42:28,323 --> 00:42:35,166 And as a good research analyst, I always say, won't overstep what the data shows or what my experience shows. 447 00:42:35,927 --> 00:42:49,014 But I think that many of Zeta's members and other utilities continue to make investments in EV charging and how they're approaching electrification in their specific region within 448 00:42:49,014 --> 00:42:49,815 states. 449 00:42:49,815 --> 00:42:52,702 And that's really important work or how EVs will. 450 00:42:52,702 --> 00:42:55,354 in the future interact with the grid. 451 00:42:55,354 --> 00:43:07,000 There's excitement and also challenges around that interaction outside of the data center and AI questions and all the other kind of challenges that utilities will deal with. 452 00:43:07,740 --> 00:43:11,953 So of course, they're a really important part of the conversation here in New York. 453 00:43:11,953 --> 00:43:20,707 I'm in Con Ed's jurisdiction, the investments that they're making to increase electrification or to prepare for an electric future. 454 00:43:22,204 --> 00:43:27,057 So every utility varies and differs where they're at on this journey. 455 00:43:27,057 --> 00:43:33,412 Obviously, California utilities, when your EV share of sale is 25%, you have a lot more EVs on the road. 456 00:43:33,412 --> 00:43:36,414 It's a different experience than where EVs are just getting started. 457 00:43:36,414 --> 00:43:42,648 so I think really important partners, really important to continue to engage and work with. 458 00:43:42,648 --> 00:43:48,672 And it's exciting to have them as a part of the team here at Zeta as well, because they offer a unique perspective. 459 00:43:48,672 --> 00:43:51,924 And also, when we were talking about certainty before, right? 460 00:43:51,924 --> 00:43:54,655 their utilities have different planning cycles. 461 00:43:54,655 --> 00:43:55,845 They have different programs. 462 00:43:55,845 --> 00:44:01,427 have different regulators and different speed altogether. 463 00:44:01,427 --> 00:44:08,469 So definitely an area that I personally need to kind of get up to speed more and continue learning about. 464 00:44:08,469 --> 00:44:12,080 Even as like someone in research, you're always learning more and doing more. 465 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:18,832 But this transition is going to be successful in part because the utilities are there to kind of help ease it along over time. 466 00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:29,517 As far as kind of what you're seeing in the data, what are the trends that have been kind of the most? 467 00:44:31,341 --> 00:44:42,161 I don't know, just like the ones that you've been kind of most optimistic and kind of positive about as far as kind of like looking forward with the growth of the industry. 468 00:44:42,558 --> 00:44:51,186 Yeah, this is honestly, it's almost like you, I'm not saying I gave you this question, Chase, but it's almost a nice tee up to see if one of my former BNEF colleagues listens to 469 00:44:51,186 --> 00:44:56,009 this and makes it all the way to, you know, as far as we are in the conversation. 470 00:44:56,310 --> 00:45:06,899 So BNEF, Bloomberg NEF puts out a battery price survey every year, which looks at the actual kind of prices of battery packs and more. 471 00:45:07,220 --> 00:45:08,020 And 472 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:13,600 BNEF has been doing this for over a decade and tracks prices back to 2010. 473 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:23,040 So really a lot of this transition has been pushed forward by the idea that lithium ion battery prices have fallen around 90%. 474 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:36,000 I don't have the exact math off the top of my head at this moment, but from that price in 2020, $4, around $1,400 per kilowatt hour down to $115 per kilowatt hour. 475 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,052 And it is such a... 476 00:45:38,052 --> 00:45:52,424 massive change in how affordable these batteries are that have begun to impact more of these affordable EVs existing, impact the existence of stationary storage in a major way 477 00:45:52,424 --> 00:45:57,988 and can transform both our transportation economy, but also our power sector. 478 00:45:58,128 --> 00:46:07,226 And there's no way that you can't look at that chart and then also all the kind of EV sales charts working kind of in tandem as the battery prices have come down, EV sales have 479 00:46:07,226 --> 00:46:07,934 gone up. 480 00:46:07,934 --> 00:46:09,705 and not feel good about the future. 481 00:46:09,705 --> 00:46:20,673 BNEF continues to of forecast battery prices out and continuing to fall into a cheaper and more affordable range, which will be passed on to consumers. 482 00:46:20,673 --> 00:46:25,756 So I think between that and seeing used EV sales begin to pick up, there's a lot of reasons to feel good. 483 00:46:25,756 --> 00:46:36,832 think whenever I have conversations like this, Chase, I always try and be non-Pollyannish, not say that everything will be easy, transitions will take place overnight. 484 00:46:36,832 --> 00:46:47,232 One set I always like to really use is that like in the early 1900s, like basically 1910 to 1930, as the internal combustion engine was picking up, there were many different types 485 00:46:47,232 --> 00:46:49,472 of fueling used to power gas cars. 486 00:46:49,472 --> 00:46:50,972 Kerosene, I think, was one. 487 00:46:50,972 --> 00:46:58,632 And so it's not like ICE vehicles, you know, flipped a switch in a year, in five years, were dominating the world. 488 00:46:58,632 --> 00:47:04,768 know, companies like Ford at the time made the innovation, like many companies in the EV space are doing today. 489 00:47:04,768 --> 00:47:06,548 but it is a transition for a reason. 490 00:47:06,548 --> 00:47:10,968 And I think it's an exciting one to be a part of, but just like any transition, there are bumps in the road. 491 00:47:10,968 --> 00:47:13,748 I have so many stats I could throw. 492 00:47:14,328 --> 00:47:20,748 I don't have it off the top of my head, but there was a good survey in like, I want to say the early 2000s around cell phone usage. 493 00:47:20,808 --> 00:47:23,288 If people will like ever want smartphones or not. 494 00:47:23,288 --> 00:47:25,988 And it was like 20 % or so people thought it'd be a thing. 495 00:47:25,988 --> 00:47:28,368 And then, know, here we go. 496 00:47:28,368 --> 00:47:31,548 We got the iPhones, you know, all in our. 497 00:47:32,030 --> 00:47:32,830 all over the place. 498 00:47:32,830 --> 00:47:34,211 So it's exciting. 499 00:47:34,211 --> 00:47:43,496 And I think there's a lot of reasons to feel optimistic, but also highlights why groups like Zeta are really important because there are challenges to address and a lot of 500 00:47:43,496 --> 00:47:44,117 uncertainty. 501 00:47:44,117 --> 00:47:52,751 I'm having conversations with friends or industry, what they say, what's going to happen with tariffs, what's going to happen with Policy X or Policy Y. 502 00:47:52,751 --> 00:47:55,712 And there's a lot of news developments every day. 503 00:47:55,793 --> 00:47:59,695 so the big picture story has been really good. 504 00:48:00,395 --> 00:48:01,886 And there is a lot more 505 00:48:01,886 --> 00:48:09,783 work to do, but I think that kind of keeps you positive and keeps you kind of in the moment where, yeah, you might be getting a bunch of new stories in a single day and trying 506 00:48:09,783 --> 00:48:11,474 to figure out what the heck is going on. 507 00:48:12,194 --> 00:48:19,496 Yeah, I think that's actually an excellent call out because you wind the clock only a few years and really just kind of right before COVID. 508 00:48:19,697 --> 00:48:26,900 One of the biggest things you always heard about electric vehicles is like, well, the batteries are so expensive, it'll never happen. 509 00:48:26,900 --> 00:48:31,511 There's no way it'll ever get down to around 100 bucks per kilowatt hour and all these other things. 510 00:48:31,511 --> 00:48:34,873 And those are just things that have kind of happened in the past few years. 511 00:48:34,873 --> 00:48:40,375 And we've kind of taken for granted and forgotten how much pushback there used to be. 512 00:48:40,375 --> 00:48:43,115 to that part of the conversation altogether. 513 00:48:43,584 --> 00:48:46,724 We're approaching that kind of price parity. 514 00:48:47,244 --> 00:48:50,424 I always used to say Bloomberg that price parity is in a moment. 515 00:48:50,424 --> 00:48:56,304 It's kind of a spectrum over time because different segments reach price parity depending on your markets. 516 00:48:56,304 --> 00:49:01,524 It could be at $125 per kilowatt hour, $100 per kilowatt hour, some even 90. 517 00:49:02,224 --> 00:49:04,704 Haven't looked at the numbers at Bloomberg in a little bit. 518 00:49:04,704 --> 00:49:06,204 So we'll throw stuff out there. 519 00:49:06,204 --> 00:49:13,428 But if you look at most studies now in the US, again, putting kind of the short term challenges to the side. 520 00:49:13,428 --> 00:49:18,691 we're seeing parity within the next couple of years and arguably many vehicles might be added today. 521 00:49:18,752 --> 00:49:25,246 And so that is a transformative moment, but it can be lost in a lot of noise sometimes. 522 00:49:25,677 --> 00:49:27,357 Yeah, and I mean, I always kind look back. 523 00:49:27,357 --> 00:49:32,037 I mean, the big thing was always that $100 a kilowatt hour mark or even 150. 524 00:49:32,557 --> 00:49:37,157 And it just seems like as we got closer and closer, people would either look for more reasons. 525 00:49:37,157 --> 00:49:40,137 Well, well, actually, it's this, that and the other. 526 00:49:40,137 --> 00:49:49,477 But the more you pulled it apart, the more you realize that that actually number wasn't taking into account so many of the other things that actually make an electric vehicle so 527 00:49:49,477 --> 00:49:53,797 much more cost efficient that sure, maybe there's some of these upfront battery costs. 528 00:49:53,921 --> 00:49:55,402 But they've continued to fall in. 529 00:49:55,402 --> 00:49:58,644 I think you're totally right about specific industries. 530 00:49:58,644 --> 00:50:00,405 Those impacts have been greater than others. 531 00:50:00,405 --> 00:50:10,913 And a great one is, as you kind of mentioned, utility and grid storage power and how batteries have really taken off in that because there's so many other issues you run into 532 00:50:10,913 --> 00:50:19,208 with when you have to have like a coal peaker plant that batteries don't have to be dirt cheap, that you're saving already a lot of money and you're already just starting to see 533 00:50:19,208 --> 00:50:23,861 that safety and consistency with a lot of these battery grid tied systems. 534 00:50:24,542 --> 00:50:26,304 Yeah, it's exciting to be around. 535 00:50:26,304 --> 00:50:28,177 I always feel good when I'm talking to industry people. 536 00:50:28,177 --> 00:50:36,506 feel like that is a, even though people are, think, I think there's frustrations around all the uncertainty for sure. 537 00:50:36,587 --> 00:50:41,464 But I think people believe in the mission and believe in, you know, working in these kinds of growing fields. 538 00:50:41,464 --> 00:50:43,846 And I think it keeps people motivated. 539 00:50:44,781 --> 00:50:45,221 For sure. 540 00:50:45,221 --> 00:50:48,673 I think there's just so much, I've always been kind of like a long-term person. 541 00:50:48,673 --> 00:50:56,908 There's always short-term noise and all these things that kind of, if you pay attention just from that, it looks like the world's going to end tomorrow or something. 542 00:50:56,908 --> 00:51:06,553 But then you, and I'm always also a person who doesn't like to look back at stuff, but if you just look back five to 10 years, you really do see just how far things have come. 543 00:51:06,633 --> 00:51:12,596 And it's all stuff that makes you kind of optimistic to see where all of this is clearly going. 544 00:51:12,776 --> 00:51:14,188 And when it, when it, 545 00:51:14,188 --> 00:51:15,835 I'm sorry, we're gonna say something. 546 00:51:15,968 --> 00:51:26,048 No, I mean, it's even that point that I brought up on the US where like alternative drive, drive trains, meaning Bevs, P-Hubs and hybrids were about 2 % of all sales in the US in 547 00:51:26,048 --> 00:51:30,008 2015 and were, you know, over 19 % last year. 548 00:51:30,148 --> 00:51:37,128 So even in the US, you know, change is coming and change has been occurring, which is exciting to see. 549 00:51:37,259 --> 00:51:37,479 Yeah. 550 00:51:37,479 --> 00:51:41,230 And I think that's a perfect example of what I kind of meant about looking. 551 00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:43,891 There were so many people, especially the automotive industry though. 552 00:51:43,891 --> 00:51:44,571 Well, it's only 2%. 553 00:51:44,571 --> 00:51:47,772 What will it ever grow to? 554 00:51:47,772 --> 00:51:51,413 And in such a short time, it's almost 10 X to that. 555 00:51:51,413 --> 00:51:54,864 And that's where you kind of have to look at not just where it is or what it's been. 556 00:51:54,864 --> 00:51:57,794 You have to look at that growth factor to all of it. 557 00:51:57,815 --> 00:52:06,943 And one of the other areas I know that I've talked to some of the other members about at Zeta about before is the work you're also doing with kind of electric school buses. 558 00:52:06,943 --> 00:52:07,786 Yeah. 559 00:52:08,002 --> 00:52:13,949 In some of these kind of traditionally non passenger EV spaces that have really started to stand out 560 00:52:14,725 --> 00:52:23,089 Yeah, I mean, and I think the electric school bus one is always a great example because you're having a public health benefit on top of, you know, just another segment on top of, 561 00:52:23,089 --> 00:52:25,661 you know, pilots around electric school buses and the grid. 562 00:52:25,661 --> 00:52:38,227 And, know, really important federal programs that have been, you know, in helping establish factories in places like West Virginia and elsewhere. 563 00:52:38,227 --> 00:52:42,600 And it's exciting to see the technology grow. 564 00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:43,306 mean, 565 00:52:43,306 --> 00:52:47,599 there's about 500,000 school buses in the US, which is massive. 566 00:52:47,860 --> 00:52:54,246 In my former life, I worked on buses a little bit as well, it's transit buses are around 70,000 electric school buses, 500,000. 567 00:52:54,246 --> 00:52:57,699 It's a massive market opportunity with different challenges. 568 00:52:57,699 --> 00:53:05,616 In a weird way, I almost think that like passenger EVs is consumer product plus renewable energy kind of spin on it. 569 00:53:05,756 --> 00:53:10,250 With electric school buses, it does have more of that kind of fleet process. 570 00:53:10,250 --> 00:53:16,667 But that means there's different challenges of like, how do you get school districts to be able to afford it and to kind of drivers to learn it in a different way. 571 00:53:17,489 --> 00:53:21,224 And I think people are always really excited seeing them, which is a good feeling. 572 00:53:21,224 --> 00:53:28,864 I mean, I think people are excited seeing passenger EVs too, but just the kind of visceral reaction to running into an electric school bus or going to an event with them is always 573 00:53:28,864 --> 00:53:29,624 really fun. 574 00:53:30,593 --> 00:53:38,637 Yeah, and think it just highlights when people are thinking about this in a way that it's like trying to say these universal truths are like, this won't work for that. 575 00:53:38,637 --> 00:53:48,078 But then you start really breaking it down by industry or need around like when electric school bus needs versus what a consumer needs for day to day versus kind of what we're 576 00:53:48,078 --> 00:53:50,964 talking about with you deal like utility scale grade. 577 00:53:50,964 --> 00:53:52,745 They're serving. 578 00:53:52,745 --> 00:53:59,319 They're kind of the same technology, but the way they do it and to what extent they serve does actually have some pretty 579 00:53:59,319 --> 00:54:04,948 drastic and impactful differences for those different product lines and industries. 580 00:54:05,376 --> 00:54:10,736 Yeah, and there are different places in the kind of development of the supply chain, right? 581 00:54:10,736 --> 00:54:16,296 So it's building up economies of scale across the board has been shown as a positive move. 582 00:54:16,296 --> 00:54:28,676 so, you know, buses and trucks, like commercial vehicles, like your your vans put out by, you know, Ford Rivian is moving along quite nicely. 583 00:54:29,296 --> 00:54:32,574 Electric school buses, you know, still have a bit of a ways to go. 584 00:54:32,574 --> 00:54:35,635 Just like in the passenger EV space, you really got two ways of doing it, right? 585 00:54:35,635 --> 00:54:44,627 You could be an all electric startup or you can be an ice make, you know, traditional diesel school bus maker who kind of learns how to do electric. 586 00:54:46,028 --> 00:54:49,349 Same with, you know, mail trucks and all of these different functions. 587 00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:53,590 But I think there you even see the total cost of ownership benefit more so, right? 588 00:54:53,590 --> 00:54:56,951 Where it's like these products are cheaper to run and to fuel. 589 00:54:56,951 --> 00:55:02,632 And that's, that's without getting to the, you know, ancillary benefits of electrification. 590 00:55:02,952 --> 00:55:04,723 Again, we're early on all this stuff. 591 00:55:04,723 --> 00:55:15,816 so there's different companies being established who are trying, just like any kind of new industry, there's going to be success, there's going to be setbacks, but it shows that 592 00:55:15,816 --> 00:55:19,917 really, you know, there's a lot of potential for electrification. 593 00:55:20,232 --> 00:55:29,480 And let's just say, you know, cleaner technologies across the board, you know, aiming towards that kind of zero emission in our title, right? 594 00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:30,440 To kind of... 595 00:55:30,912 --> 00:55:38,257 hit up over the long term or those heavy duty trucks, all really challenging things, but exciting nonetheless. 596 00:55:38,257 --> 00:55:44,380 And maybe we come back in five to 10 years and talk about electric aviation, but I think not necessarily today. 597 00:55:45,133 --> 00:55:47,624 Well, I think that's a good tee up for the next conversation. 598 00:55:47,624 --> 00:55:53,895 I mean, I'm super passionate about the aviation space and I think what's happening there is really cool, but that's like a perfect example. 599 00:55:53,895 --> 00:56:01,380 It's like where we're seeing the scaling of consumer vehicles use cases, pretty clear. 600 00:56:01,380 --> 00:56:07,382 There's a use case and path to electric aviation, but there's still some kind of technical. 601 00:56:07,382 --> 00:56:12,924 I, when you see like the battery density and where the technology is going, it's likely it will get there. 602 00:56:13,204 --> 00:56:14,989 But we're still a little further. 603 00:56:14,989 --> 00:56:23,796 We're kind of where like the EV industry with that is maybe a decade, maybe a little more ago, which once again, that's so cool to think that we're seeing that continued growth. 604 00:56:23,796 --> 00:56:26,759 But Corey, this has been a really fascinating conversation. 605 00:56:26,759 --> 00:56:37,628 really enjoyed kind of talking about these different topics, but with kind of all the data and research we're seeing to kind of really show that there's so much to be positive 606 00:56:37,628 --> 00:56:37,858 about. 607 00:56:37,858 --> 00:56:43,232 And it's all growing pretty quickly and changing in a lot of different areas in a positive way. 608 00:56:43,232 --> 00:56:44,107 But for 609 00:56:44,107 --> 00:56:52,275 those who are curious and want to learn more, what's the best way to kind of follow you and kind of learn more about the work that you're doing at Zeta. 610 00:56:52,636 --> 00:56:53,096 Yeah. 611 00:56:53,096 --> 00:56:55,678 So first I'll plug the Zeta website. 612 00:56:55,698 --> 00:56:58,060 You know, always good to keep tabs on what we're doing. 613 00:56:58,060 --> 00:57:06,055 We have both kind of, you know, the advocacy work and then a lot of education work on things like, you know, cost of EVs or EV charging. 614 00:57:06,055 --> 00:57:11,209 So, you know, zeta.org, gotta give the, you know, the team a shout out. 615 00:57:11,209 --> 00:57:18,144 In terms of me, LinkedIn, Twitter, Blue Sky on all of it, you'll get some EV content. 616 00:57:18,144 --> 00:57:20,686 You'll get a lot of basketball complaining about the Brooklyn Nets. 617 00:57:20,686 --> 00:57:21,426 So. 618 00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,641 Be careful what you sign up for. 619 00:57:24,203 --> 00:57:26,374 it's, you know, got to be true to yourself, Chase. 620 00:57:26,374 --> 00:57:29,427 You can't be business all the time. 621 00:57:29,607 --> 00:57:34,140 usually after work hours, you'll see me complaining about the nets losing. 622 00:57:34,140 --> 00:57:38,686 Although this year, winning or losing, this year I want them to be worse off so they get a better draft pick. 623 00:57:38,686 --> 00:57:48,434 So if you want some real entertainment, follow me around the MBA draft, but also really follow Zeta's work around electrification and the kind of efforts on the EV supply chain. 624 00:57:49,175 --> 00:57:56,049 Yeah, unfortunately, as a Portland Trailblazers fan, can too easily relate to where you're at in that experience as well. 625 00:57:56,049 --> 00:57:58,190 But yes, thank you so much. 626 00:57:58,371 --> 00:58:00,022 Well, I mean, that could be its own podcast. 627 00:58:00,022 --> 00:58:03,454 We got to talk about that sometime too on the situation, the NBA. 628 00:58:03,454 --> 00:58:05,956 But this has been really fascinating. 629 00:58:05,956 --> 00:58:10,039 Looking forward to having you and other members from the Zeta team back on soon again. 630 00:58:10,039 --> 00:58:12,690 It's always really interesting and great to hear what's happening. 631 00:58:12,690 --> 00:58:13,802 So thank you so much, Corey. 632 00:58:13,802 --> 00:58:15,168 Yeah, thank you so much for your time, Chase. 633 00:58:15,168 --> 00:58:16,623 Hope you have a good rest of your day. 634 00:58:21,747 --> 00:58:24,198 That's a wrap on this episode of grid connections. 635 00:58:24,198 --> 00:58:29,361 A huge thank you to Corey Cantor from Zeta for joining us and bringing the data insight and optimism. 636 00:58:29,361 --> 00:58:32,082 We need to keep pushing this transition forward. 637 00:58:32,082 --> 00:58:40,776 If you took away something valuable from this conversation, whether it was the trends in EV adoption, how battery prices are reshaping the market or the importance of visibility 638 00:58:40,776 --> 00:58:46,449 and public charging, we'd love it if you'd share this episode with a friend or colleague who might enjoy it too. 639 00:58:46,449 --> 00:58:47,633 And while you're at it. 640 00:58:47,633 --> 00:58:53,958 Leave us a positive rating and review on your favorite podcast platform and helps more curious minds find the show. 641 00:58:53,958 --> 00:58:57,150 And don't forget Grid Connections Consulting is now live. 642 00:58:57,150 --> 00:59:05,246 If you're looking for strategic guidance in the electric vehicle, energy or infrastructure space, head to gridconnections.co to learn more. 643 00:59:05,286 --> 00:59:09,750 Lastly, get the latest insights delivered straight to your inbox by subscribing to our newsletter. 644 00:59:09,750 --> 00:59:11,491 The link is in the show notes. 645 00:59:11,491 --> 00:59:14,753 Until next time, this is the Grid Connections podcast signing off.