1 00:00:09,133 --> 00:00:12,943 Kevin: Hello and welcome back to Subspace Radio. 2 00:00:12,943 --> 00:00:18,103 This is our episode for Strange New Worlds season three, episode 3 00:00:18,103 --> 00:00:20,908 five, through the Lens of Time. 4 00:00:21,674 --> 00:00:26,174 Rob: Very ominous title, very, very thoughtful title as well. 5 00:00:26,203 --> 00:00:27,313 Kevin: Yeah, this title did. 6 00:00:27,343 --> 00:00:29,563 This title led me into some wrong directions. 7 00:00:29,563 --> 00:00:31,393 I think this was a trap of a title. 8 00:00:31,393 --> 00:00:33,823 It was, it was there to misdirect more than anything. 9 00:00:34,379 --> 00:00:35,519 Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 10 00:00:35,549 --> 00:00:36,269 Very much so. 11 00:00:36,269 --> 00:00:37,289 We're going, oh, okay. 12 00:00:37,289 --> 00:00:38,489 Time is in the title. 13 00:00:38,489 --> 00:00:40,529 Will that play an active part in it? 14 00:00:41,023 --> 00:00:42,103 Kevin: Yeah, exactly. 15 00:00:42,163 --> 00:00:43,963 But we'll come to all of that. 16 00:00:44,563 --> 00:00:50,533 The topic that we've chosen, uh, to expand on from this episode is body possession. 17 00:00:51,073 --> 00:00:53,113 Definitely a recurring theme in Star Trek. 18 00:00:53,113 --> 00:00:56,473 I'm sure there are, there are dozens of episodes we could talk about, 19 00:00:56,473 --> 00:01:00,133 but we've each picked one and, uh, we'll, we'll see where it takes us. 20 00:01:00,269 --> 00:01:03,089 Rob: And not to be confused with a body swap episode. 21 00:01:03,358 --> 00:01:03,628 Kevin: No. 22 00:01:03,628 --> 00:01:04,828 Very different thing Rob. 23 00:01:04,888 --> 00:01:07,708 Completely different science behind this phenomenon. 24 00:01:07,949 --> 00:01:08,189 Rob: well. 25 00:01:08,189 --> 00:01:09,629 Yes, that's what, that's what you know. 26 00:01:09,629 --> 00:01:10,019 I'm here. 27 00:01:10,019 --> 00:01:14,159 Just to clarify the nerd side of things, you're here to clarify the nerd science 28 00:01:14,159 --> 00:01:18,239 of things, you know, that's why we've got all bases covered here at Subspace Radio. 29 00:01:19,048 --> 00:01:23,698 Kevin: But let's start with, uh, some reflections on Through the Lens of 30 00:01:23,698 --> 00:01:27,958 Time, which, uh, I, I believe they have now fixed the spelling on Paramount 31 00:01:27,958 --> 00:01:33,148 Plus, initially published with the, the wrong lens, L-E-N-S-E on Paramount 32 00:01:33,178 --> 00:01:37,888 Plus, and sent us all scrambling for, hang on, what's the actual title? 33 00:01:37,888 --> 00:01:38,848 What are they talking about? 34 00:01:38,848 --> 00:01:39,318 Lense? 35 00:01:39,728 --> 00:01:42,258 What did you think of our, of our lens-y 36 00:01:42,324 --> 00:01:45,504 Rob: Well, with this episode in particular, it was, um, we've talked 37 00:01:45,504 --> 00:01:51,369 about it before, how the, uh, Star Trek Strange New Worlds trying to be funny 38 00:01:51,369 --> 00:01:57,339 this season kind to has, uh, starting to grate on, uh, on, on some people. 39 00:01:57,639 --> 00:02:02,619 Um, however, when it goes in for some serious, uh, material, it 40 00:02:02,619 --> 00:02:07,814 seems to be hitting, uh, with a lot, uh, more confident, uh, stroke, if 41 00:02:07,814 --> 00:02:09,164 I was to use a sporting analogy. 42 00:02:09,314 --> 00:02:11,594 This one is ha has elements of darkness. 43 00:02:11,594 --> 00:02:15,824 It has some really horrific things in there, and some really contemplative 44 00:02:15,824 --> 00:02:20,084 messages, and I thought it was, um, a highlight of what we've seen so far. 45 00:02:20,129 --> 00:02:22,094 I, I re really like this one. 46 00:02:22,553 --> 00:02:25,223 Kevin: It definitely felt that like the tone shift I was craving. 47 00:02:25,253 --> 00:02:27,023 I've been saying I want, I want. 48 00:02:27,383 --> 00:02:30,683 Like this is the first time this season I feel like Strange New Worlds 49 00:02:30,683 --> 00:02:33,233 has taken us to a strange new world. 50 00:02:34,239 --> 00:02:36,834 Rob: With a lot of unanswered questions, which we love about 51 00:02:36,878 --> 00:02:37,478 Kevin: Oh yeah. 52 00:02:37,478 --> 00:02:38,528 A lot of unanswered questions. 53 00:02:38,528 --> 00:02:40,838 Not all of them deliberate, I feel like. 54 00:02:40,898 --> 00:02:42,938 I, I don't know if you felt the same. 55 00:02:42,938 --> 00:02:46,808 I felt like this, this was one of those episodes that came together at the last 56 00:02:46,808 --> 00:02:52,658 minute with a lot, a lot of loose threads and, uh, artifacts of, of things removed 57 00:02:52,658 --> 00:02:54,938 or things that ideas not quite fulfilled. 58 00:02:55,324 --> 00:02:58,344 Rob: And, and stealing ideas from an Indiana Jones movie. 59 00:02:59,078 --> 00:02:59,833 Kevin: Well, yes, of course. 60 00:03:02,123 --> 00:03:04,103 You steal from the best, if you steal, Rob. 61 00:03:04,194 --> 00:03:04,854 Rob: Oh exec. 62 00:03:05,154 --> 00:03:06,024 I'm glad. 63 00:03:06,024 --> 00:03:09,984 I'm glad that Last Crusade is getting, its getting its flowers. 64 00:03:10,133 --> 00:03:11,243 Kevin: Yes, exactly. 65 00:03:11,933 --> 00:03:16,133 Uh, but yeah, and a couple of comic beats, like it wasn't completely humorless. 66 00:03:16,223 --> 00:03:21,863 Um, yeah, Carol Kane deployed beautifully with the, uh, the, would 67 00:03:21,863 --> 00:03:23,753 you like one for the camera at the end? 68 00:03:23,813 --> 00:03:24,173 Very 69 00:03:24,349 --> 00:03:24,769 Rob: it is always. 70 00:03:24,983 --> 00:03:28,253 Kevin: exactly the right amount of comedy in my Star Trek. 71 00:03:28,334 --> 00:03:32,349 Rob: It is always a tough balance to find that comedy that doesn't 72 00:03:32,349 --> 00:03:34,659 take away from the emotional impact. 73 00:03:35,109 --> 00:03:41,049 Um, uh, and so it doesn't sort of like, undo all the work that has been done, 74 00:03:41,049 --> 00:03:47,259 but Carol Kane is such a pro, such a, uh, absolute pro, and just knows 75 00:03:47,259 --> 00:03:52,599 how to flip that dime and catch it expertly and keep the tone going on. 76 00:03:52,599 --> 00:03:57,909 Because of course, Ortegas' brother is here filming, uh, an official documentary 77 00:03:57,954 --> 00:04:02,019 for the Federation, and this is his first away mission with the crew. 78 00:04:02,019 --> 00:04:03,429 And ooh, what a doozy. 79 00:04:04,003 --> 00:04:07,298 Kevin: A, a feature length documentary, if you will, Rob. 80 00:04:07,538 --> 00:04:08,048 They called 81 00:04:08,124 --> 00:04:12,414 Rob: Will it be, as you say, feature length or will we see 82 00:04:12,414 --> 00:04:14,904 it at 45 minute episode length? 83 00:04:16,508 --> 00:04:20,618 Kevin: Just the concept that, uh, feature length, uh, films are still 84 00:04:20,618 --> 00:04:25,208 a thing this far into the future is kind of a, a, a, a funny idea. 85 00:04:25,628 --> 00:04:27,728 It's, it's funny, every time one of these, like modern 86 00:04:27,728 --> 00:04:29,558 phrases makes it into Star Trek. 87 00:04:29,558 --> 00:04:33,458 I feel like they used to be a lot more disciplined about not using contemporary 88 00:04:33,458 --> 00:04:37,418 language and now they're really going there and, and every once in a while 89 00:04:37,418 --> 00:04:40,538 something like this goes, I'm not sure that would still be a thing. 90 00:04:40,749 --> 00:04:42,579 Rob: They're not just fast and loose with canon. 91 00:04:42,579 --> 00:04:45,729 They're fast and loose with what they've established is, uh, still 92 00:04:45,729 --> 00:04:47,619 within the vernacular of this time. 93 00:04:48,158 --> 00:04:51,888 Kevin: We had another one with, uh, with Chapel and La'an's 94 00:04:51,908 --> 00:04:53,618 conversation in the corridor. 95 00:04:53,948 --> 00:04:57,938 La'an saying, Spock and I discuss it and decided it would just be fun times. 96 00:04:58,178 --> 00:05:01,718 And I was like, fun times that, that's a particularly, uh, 97 00:05:01,838 --> 00:05:03,938 2010s turn of phrase, isn't it? 98 00:05:04,104 --> 00:05:07,944 Rob: Is I, I think that's more of a, yeah, that's more of a La'an phrase 99 00:05:07,944 --> 00:05:13,794 than I, I don't, I don't, I, I, look, I'm loving what Ethan Peck is doing, 100 00:05:13,794 --> 00:05:18,774 but I don't think, yeah, I think his version of Spock is so in spirit. 101 00:05:18,954 --> 00:05:23,004 In spirit, he would never say, I believe that this shall be a fun times 102 00:05:23,198 --> 00:05:26,858 Kevin: Yeah, that was definitely her, that that character's, uh, 103 00:05:26,918 --> 00:05:29,228 yeah, uh, choice of words for sure. 104 00:05:29,663 --> 00:05:33,788 I, I guess I got what I wanted out of this, establishing the relationship 105 00:05:33,788 --> 00:05:37,718 as casual and that we aren't gonna see lovelorn Spock for the rest of the season. 106 00:05:38,078 --> 00:05:38,498 Good. 107 00:05:38,498 --> 00:05:40,268 On that front, this scene. 108 00:05:40,548 --> 00:05:42,978 Really, I did not like it. 109 00:05:42,978 --> 00:05:47,688 The two women and the, the line, Oh, please don't be one of those women. 110 00:05:47,688 --> 00:05:50,538 I kind of went, sat back at my chair and went, ah, how did 111 00:05:50,538 --> 00:05:51,768 that make it through the edit? 112 00:05:51,798 --> 00:05:57,158 That was, that was a bad line, and it, it really, you know, I, I know 113 00:05:57,158 --> 00:06:02,738 Roddenberry's rule of no conflict between Starfleet officers is something that is 114 00:06:02,738 --> 00:06:09,338 often bemoaned as a limitation of the creative possibilities in Star Trek for, 115 00:06:09,488 --> 00:06:13,148 for a while, especially in the early nineties, but, uh, I think it could 116 00:06:13,148 --> 00:06:14,978 have used a bit of application here. 117 00:06:15,008 --> 00:06:21,323 I, I don't, I don't want to see my Starfleet officers having that kind 118 00:06:21,323 --> 00:06:27,953 of, uh, I dunno, it, it just feels so trivial and, and pedestrian as a, 119 00:06:27,953 --> 00:06:32,603 as a, as an issue to be separating the human beings on the show. 120 00:06:32,603 --> 00:06:36,713 I want, I really want to see professionals being professional in 121 00:06:36,713 --> 00:06:38,813 professional situations on Star Trek. 122 00:06:38,951 --> 00:06:44,821 Rob: I, I felt it was, I did feel the, uh, the cogs grind a little bit at that point. 123 00:06:44,941 --> 00:06:45,001 Um. 124 00:06:45,194 --> 00:06:47,324 Kevin: It felt like they were, they had to do something. 125 00:06:47,324 --> 00:06:51,314 They had to justify where they were gonna take the relationships, but 126 00:06:51,314 --> 00:06:53,864 it was a really clumsy way to do it. 127 00:06:53,866 --> 00:06:56,806 Rob: Well, it definitely, it was a case of, because it's something that 128 00:06:56,806 --> 00:06:58,156 you were hoping that would happen. 129 00:06:58,156 --> 00:07:01,816 It would well, in a, in a sense of it was mentioned and they 130 00:07:01,816 --> 00:07:03,076 just carry on with the business. 131 00:07:03,076 --> 00:07:05,836 And for the rest of the episode, you, you couldn't tell that 132 00:07:06,526 --> 00:07:10,936 La'an and uh, Spock were in some sort of fun times relationship. 133 00:07:10,936 --> 00:07:16,966 However, if that line was dropped in, say, something like Lower Decks, that 134 00:07:16,966 --> 00:07:21,346 would be called out and made fun of within the, the Lower Decks crew and 135 00:07:21,346 --> 00:07:23,536 the writing would be on top of that. 136 00:07:23,746 --> 00:07:28,726 But because this show is fundamentally, yeah, even when the Lower Decks characters 137 00:07:28,726 --> 00:07:33,676 came into it, in Those Old Scientists, the, the Lower Deckers were talking 138 00:07:33,676 --> 00:07:39,136 about how serious they are and how, you know, Pike and his crew are on a serious 139 00:07:39,136 --> 00:07:45,286 level compared to the rather flippant nature of, um, of Boimler and uh Mariner. 140 00:07:45,616 --> 00:07:53,266 So that seriousness has undercut this, this line has undercut that seriousness. 141 00:07:53,266 --> 00:07:55,996 And because this line was such a clang and they had to keep the 142 00:07:55,996 --> 00:07:59,866 serious tone, which should have been referred to, it's, it just didn't gel. 143 00:07:59,956 --> 00:08:00,916 It just didn't gel for me. 144 00:08:00,916 --> 00:08:03,946 Once they got on the surface, I'm going, okay, this is where they 145 00:08:03,946 --> 00:08:07,966 feel more, this is where it's working more, um, confidently. 146 00:08:08,219 --> 00:08:12,719 Kevin: It was scaffolding for that final moment of will Chapel trust Spock or 147 00:08:12,719 --> 00:08:17,249 not, and step out into the open space where the bridge is going to appear. 148 00:08:17,369 --> 00:08:20,849 And if Chapel wasn't having second thoughts about like, is 149 00:08:20,849 --> 00:08:22,949 Spock, is Spock trustworthy? 150 00:08:23,249 --> 00:08:25,439 Uh, is his heart in the right place? 151 00:08:25,439 --> 00:08:27,359 Has he got my best interest at heart? 152 00:08:27,569 --> 00:08:30,269 Had, we had to establish some doubt so that there was 153 00:08:30,269 --> 00:08:32,699 some tension in that moment. 154 00:08:32,699 --> 00:08:35,159 But to use the, the. 155 00:08:36,014 --> 00:08:40,544 Apparent love tra triangle between them, those, those Starfleet officers 156 00:08:40,544 --> 00:08:43,274 as set up for that did not work for me. 157 00:08:43,274 --> 00:08:46,394 I don't, I don't think that's, that sort of stuff should be 158 00:08:46,754 --> 00:08:48,254 playing into our plot lines. 159 00:08:48,254 --> 00:08:48,854 I, I don't know. 160 00:08:48,854 --> 00:08:53,054 It, it, it is probably just an, uh, uh, I'm, I'm a traditionalist 161 00:08:53,054 --> 00:08:54,554 when it comes to my Star Trek plot 162 00:08:54,906 --> 00:08:59,446 Rob: It did feel a little bit clunky, um, and, uh, I'm glad it wasn't, um. 163 00:09:00,511 --> 00:09:04,171 Uh, we didn't stay on that and so, and it didn't hamper 164 00:09:04,379 --> 00:09:07,169 Kevin: I think it was, it was, we've already talked for twice as long as 165 00:09:07,169 --> 00:09:10,049 the scene took, uh, which was uh, nice. 166 00:09:10,049 --> 00:09:13,409 It just really stood out as, wow, am I, am I watching Star Trek right now? 167 00:09:13,409 --> 00:09:14,969 This feels like a teen drama. 168 00:09:15,179 --> 00:09:18,059 Maybe we'll get more of this with Starfleet Academy. 169 00:09:19,626 --> 00:09:20,371 Rob: Oh, the 170 00:09:20,699 --> 00:09:21,719 Kevin: We can only hope 171 00:09:21,841 --> 00:09:23,311 Rob: how enticing. 172 00:09:24,886 --> 00:09:28,786 The older we get, we want to go back to that teenage love, um, 173 00:09:28,846 --> 00:09:32,296 uh, dynamic that we're, that, that we can relate to so much. 174 00:09:32,296 --> 00:09:34,786 Kevin: Yes, but we beam down to the rock quarry. 175 00:09:34,996 --> 00:09:40,366 Or actually we should probably spare a moment to talk about our young, uh, 176 00:09:40,426 --> 00:09:45,686 our young Gamble, Dana Gamble, the, uh, the, um, medical intern who signed 177 00:09:45,686 --> 00:09:49,556 onto the ship a couple of episodes ago and we were talking about, oh, they're 178 00:09:49,556 --> 00:09:51,056 recruiting, they're adding new characters. 179 00:09:51,056 --> 00:09:52,406 Do we really need new characters? 180 00:09:52,616 --> 00:09:55,526 It turns out we did need new characters 'cause we're gonna kill them. 181 00:09:55,773 --> 00:09:59,553 Rob: This is a, yeah, this is, uh, sort of like a platinum red shirt. 182 00:09:59,883 --> 00:10:03,333 We find, not only do we find out about him, you know, 183 00:10:03,633 --> 00:10:05,103 before he goes on the mission. 184 00:10:05,253 --> 00:10:10,653 We've had him for a couple of episodes and we've seen how his infectious positivity 185 00:10:10,653 --> 00:10:14,963 has, you know, ingrained himself into this, you know, embedded himself 186 00:10:14,963 --> 00:10:16,793 within the community on the Starship. 187 00:10:16,823 --> 00:10:21,623 His relationship with M'Benga, all of this is developed and, um, set him 188 00:10:21,623 --> 00:10:23,633 up, set us all up to knock us down. 189 00:10:23,633 --> 00:10:25,523 What an incredible performance by that 190 00:10:25,636 --> 00:10:26,566 Kevin: Yeah, he did great. 191 00:10:26,596 --> 00:10:30,046 Uh, I, I saw it remarked online that he was doomed to the moment. 192 00:10:30,046 --> 00:10:32,716 He got that red blood on his nice white uniform 193 00:10:32,753 --> 00:10:33,083 Rob: Yep. 194 00:10:33,503 --> 00:10:33,863 Yep. 195 00:10:34,026 --> 00:10:36,036 Kevin: from there then on, he was just a red shirt. 196 00:10:36,073 --> 00:10:38,833 Rob: If any, yeah, any point you need Nick Frost, just to look at 197 00:10:38,833 --> 00:10:40,123 him and go, you got red on you. 198 00:10:40,538 --> 00:10:47,318 But, um, yeah, incredible performance and from, yeah, and that so him possessed 199 00:10:47,318 --> 00:10:53,918 by this ancient presence within, trapped within this, uh, place within the orb. 200 00:10:54,398 --> 00:10:57,638 And that question about whether 201 00:10:59,101 --> 00:10:59,856 Kevin: Was he in there or 202 00:10:59,858 --> 00:11:02,678 Rob: was Gamble still in there, was played really well. 203 00:11:02,678 --> 00:11:09,061 That intentional play was horrifying, was heartbreaking and incredibly done. 204 00:11:09,111 --> 00:11:13,431 Kevin: The moment where, M'Benga like goes, hang on, let me change my scanner 205 00:11:13,431 --> 00:11:14,691 here, 'cause this can't be right. 206 00:11:14,721 --> 00:11:15,831 Your brain is dead. 207 00:11:16,131 --> 00:11:20,631 Like, that was like a, a, you know, a stomach sinking, very creepy 208 00:11:21,053 --> 00:11:22,523 Rob: It was, it escalated quickly. 209 00:11:22,523 --> 00:11:23,333 They're going, oh, wow. 210 00:11:23,333 --> 00:11:26,483 He's lost his eyes, oh wow, he's lost his life. 211 00:11:26,603 --> 00:11:27,233 Okay. 212 00:11:27,471 --> 00:11:30,921 Kevin: I felt most misdirected by the title 'cause Through the Lens of Time, 213 00:11:30,921 --> 00:11:34,371 I'm thinking, okay, there's gonna be some time displacement or multiple 214 00:11:34,371 --> 00:11:36,801 timelines or something like that going on. 215 00:11:36,801 --> 00:11:42,821 So when he came up to the ship and his memory was not quite right and he was, he 216 00:11:42,821 --> 00:11:45,431 was not behaving completely as expected. 217 00:11:45,431 --> 00:11:48,251 I was like, oh, did we get an alternate universe copy of 218 00:11:48,251 --> 00:11:50,741 him or did he lose some time? 219 00:11:51,131 --> 00:11:55,271 Uh, and, and all of that was completely like misdirect or 220 00:11:55,361 --> 00:11:56,921 like very successful misdirect. 221 00:11:56,921 --> 00:12:00,941 It had me, um, thinking down completely the wrong lines. 222 00:12:00,941 --> 00:12:04,001 So when it was revealed that he was possessed, I was, I was taken by surprise. 223 00:12:04,628 --> 00:12:07,763 Rob: Possessed by an evil that even the Gorn don't like. 224 00:12:08,646 --> 00:12:09,576 Kevin: Yes. 225 00:12:09,606 --> 00:12:14,976 Although rewatching this the second time, the, the recap of the previous episode, 226 00:12:15,456 --> 00:12:22,926 um, when Spock and, uh, Batel share the mind meld, then they see the flash of 227 00:12:22,926 --> 00:12:25,986 this, the, the, the creepy, uh, face. 228 00:12:26,076 --> 00:12:29,446 They both talk about it afterwards and ask the question, was it Gorn? 229 00:12:29,766 --> 00:12:33,486 It's, they don't establish conclusively that it was So, was it Gorn? 230 00:12:33,636 --> 00:12:34,666 Was it Vezda? 231 00:12:34,806 --> 00:12:36,576 Is there something else going on here? 232 00:12:36,756 --> 00:12:40,476 This, there is, this is fertile territory for speculation about 233 00:12:40,476 --> 00:12:41,616 where this season is going. 234 00:12:41,616 --> 00:12:44,856 I'm, I'm kind of happy that, um. 235 00:12:45,076 --> 00:12:46,486 It still feels small. 236 00:12:46,486 --> 00:12:49,726 It doesn't feel like a world ending threat, and yet it, 237 00:12:49,726 --> 00:12:51,676 it is completely mysterious. 238 00:12:51,736 --> 00:12:56,056 These small puzzle boxes are rare in modern storytelling, and I feel like 239 00:12:56,056 --> 00:12:58,036 they're pulling one off really well here. 240 00:12:58,043 --> 00:13:02,963 Rob: Very much so, very much so in a nice little teaser, uh, just before the credits 241 00:13:03,083 --> 00:13:06,863 of, um, the evil that still lurks within. 242 00:13:06,953 --> 00:13:12,803 Um, so yeah, we get ourselves down into this, uh, tomb that Korby is there as 243 00:13:12,803 --> 00:13:19,928 well, obviously, and very, very, tiny little traces of his desire to prolong 244 00:13:19,928 --> 00:13:23,293 life or the the soul continuing on 245 00:13:24,006 --> 00:13:28,266 Kevin: I am now just like waiting every episode to see, is this the one there 246 00:13:28,266 --> 00:13:33,966 where, where Korby's gonna go missing because, uh, I, I've looked up the dates 247 00:13:34,026 --> 00:13:40,026 and this is the in-universe year in which Chapel and Korby get engaged and then 248 00:13:40,026 --> 00:13:42,896 Corby goes missing on a dig on Exo III. 249 00:13:43,776 --> 00:13:47,106 So if you hear the word, if you hear the name Exo III, you're like, whoa. 250 00:13:47,106 --> 00:13:48,426 Oh, that's, yeah. 251 00:13:48,426 --> 00:13:49,776 That's where Korby goes to 252 00:13:50,078 --> 00:13:51,638 Rob: My Vulcan ears will prick up. 253 00:13:51,831 --> 00:13:52,671 Kevin: Yes, spoilers. 254 00:13:52,671 --> 00:13:56,571 I, I still want to go, I haven't gone back and rewatched What Are Little Girls Made 255 00:13:56,571 --> 00:14:02,091 Of?, um, which is the, the original series episode where we learn Korby's fate, 256 00:14:02,121 --> 00:14:07,011 but I feel like I better watch it soon because, uh, his, his clock is ticking, 257 00:14:07,011 --> 00:14:10,911 especially with the very irresponsible decisions he's making in this episode. 258 00:14:11,361 --> 00:14:14,786 He, he was very likable in we wedding bell blues. 259 00:14:14,791 --> 00:14:18,291 I felt like they, they did a lot of work to get us on his side, and this 260 00:14:18,291 --> 00:14:21,161 episode they completely lost me on Korby. 261 00:14:21,473 --> 00:14:22,043 Rob: You're a 262 00:14:22,161 --> 00:14:24,591 Kevin: I will not miss him when he is gone at this point. 263 00:14:24,593 --> 00:14:29,303 Rob: He, yeah, his priorities were, um, yeah, despite the loss of life 264 00:14:29,303 --> 00:14:32,873 and the danger, his look back at the end of sort of like almost, oh, 265 00:14:32,873 --> 00:14:35,183 what I could learn and going, dude. 266 00:14:35,781 --> 00:14:36,081 Kevin: Yeah, 267 00:14:36,428 --> 00:14:39,338 Rob: Dude, you need to go get lost somewhere and then turn 268 00:14:39,503 --> 00:14:40,383 yourself into an Android. 269 00:14:40,641 --> 00:14:41,026 Kevin: That's right. 270 00:14:41,206 --> 00:14:41,426 Yes. 271 00:14:42,786 --> 00:14:43,146 I, um. 272 00:14:44,301 --> 00:14:49,671 I really just standing in the rock quarry there, setting up the equipment that 273 00:14:49,671 --> 00:14:51,741 they were gonna use to unveil the ruins. 274 00:14:51,741 --> 00:14:54,891 I was like, okay, this is, this is my Star Trek. 275 00:14:54,921 --> 00:15:01,281 They are on a, they're on a planet, they're in, on an adventure, the, 276 00:15:01,311 --> 00:15:03,831 the, the mystery is palpable. 277 00:15:03,983 --> 00:15:09,293 Rob: A, a species that hasn't discovered warp drive, so they're there for only. 278 00:15:09,533 --> 00:15:13,673 So doing that diplomatic thing, Pike is negotiating how many 279 00:15:13,673 --> 00:15:15,443 people they can have on this site. 280 00:15:15,833 --> 00:15:21,303 Um, and then when things go pear shaped, Pike's doing that thing of we'll 281 00:15:21,323 --> 00:15:26,063 discuss with the people of this land, but we also need to get our people out. 282 00:15:26,063 --> 00:15:28,433 So there, there was star trekky, Star Trek 283 00:15:28,701 --> 00:15:30,081 Kevin: Star trekky Star Trek stuff. 284 00:15:30,231 --> 00:15:35,091 This is where I think all of this stuff on the planet, I felt like they, they must 285 00:15:35,091 --> 00:15:39,441 have chopped half, half the scenes out of it, or a lot of the scenes would've 286 00:15:39,501 --> 00:15:44,241 got shortened in the edit because it is a fairly long episode for, for this season. 287 00:15:44,241 --> 00:15:46,581 I think it's like 55 minutes or something like that. 288 00:15:47,181 --> 00:15:48,111 So they were. 289 00:15:48,291 --> 00:15:53,031 I think it, it feels like they were trying, it was too long and they were 290 00:15:53,031 --> 00:15:57,171 trying to get it down, and some important facts were left on the cutting room floor. 291 00:15:57,411 --> 00:16:01,911 The M'Kroon ambassador spoke English outside of the ruins, but 292 00:16:01,911 --> 00:16:05,481 once they went inside, he was then speaking his native language and 293 00:16:05,481 --> 00:16:07,071 people were translating for him. 294 00:16:07,521 --> 00:16:11,391 And it was, as far as I can tell, they never explained that or said why. 295 00:16:12,561 --> 00:16:16,371 And yet, like they were addressing him in English and then he was responding in 296 00:16:16,371 --> 00:16:18,381 his native language, like he understood. 297 00:16:18,381 --> 00:16:22,491 So it is like his translator was still working, but ours was not. 298 00:16:22,491 --> 00:16:26,151 And all of that was probably explained in the script somewhere 299 00:16:26,151 --> 00:16:27,501 and we just didn't get to see it. 300 00:16:27,578 --> 00:16:29,798 Rob: We had to do the whole Chewbacca faith 301 00:16:29,811 --> 00:16:30,801 Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 302 00:16:31,851 --> 00:16:36,411 The, the, uh, human languages on the panels in the thing was 303 00:16:36,411 --> 00:16:38,331 remarked on, but never explained. 304 00:16:38,331 --> 00:16:40,491 Why is there Chinese on this panel? 305 00:16:40,611 --> 00:16:41,391 Good question. 306 00:16:41,391 --> 00:16:42,171 We'll never find 307 00:16:42,308 --> 00:16:43,028 Rob: But look over here. 308 00:16:43,028 --> 00:16:44,408 There's something else to distract you. 309 00:16:44,468 --> 00:16:44,768 Yeah. 310 00:16:44,841 --> 00:16:45,321 Kevin: Yeah. 311 00:16:45,968 --> 00:16:49,538 Rob: The displacement of time thing, so each room was actually 312 00:16:49,538 --> 00:16:50,528 a different part of time. 313 00:16:50,528 --> 00:16:50,948 So they were 314 00:16:50,961 --> 00:16:52,131 Kevin: Super clever. 315 00:16:52,161 --> 00:16:52,551 Loved 316 00:16:52,598 --> 00:16:56,738 Rob: clever, very clever stuff in that figuring out, solving, showing how 317 00:16:56,738 --> 00:17:00,458 intelligent each of these people are and why they are there on this mission. 318 00:17:00,938 --> 00:17:01,448 Also 319 00:17:01,716 --> 00:17:05,556 Kevin: clever, but the camera reveal really didn't work for me, 'cause like 320 00:17:05,586 --> 00:17:12,756 that you, you, he is there to film a documentary and he goes, what, 45 minutes 321 00:17:12,756 --> 00:17:16,356 without checking the camera before he goes, hang on, we're all in the same room. 322 00:17:16,356 --> 00:17:17,886 But like, I did not believe that. 323 00:17:18,023 --> 00:17:20,393 Rob: That's about half a feature length documentary. 324 00:17:20,496 --> 00:17:20,796 Kevin: right. 325 00:17:20,796 --> 00:17:21,606 Exactly. 326 00:17:21,906 --> 00:17:22,476 Yeah. 327 00:17:22,806 --> 00:17:23,496 So, uh, 328 00:17:23,543 --> 00:17:26,963 Rob: was distracted by the awesomeness that is, uh, Uhura. 329 00:17:26,963 --> 00:17:27,353 So 330 00:17:27,366 --> 00:17:28,416 Kevin: Yes, that's true. 331 00:17:28,416 --> 00:17:29,346 Yes, that's true. 332 00:17:29,856 --> 00:17:33,546 Uh, yeah, the intuitive software, like they set up the fact that it's 333 00:17:33,546 --> 00:17:36,756 intuitive software and then later he goes the intuitive software, 334 00:17:36,756 --> 00:17:39,456 it's locking onto our life signs and putting us all in the same room. 335 00:17:39,666 --> 00:17:43,176 Or, you know, you could look at the screen and like you can 336 00:17:43,176 --> 00:17:44,391 see we're all in the same room. 337 00:17:44,731 --> 00:17:44,951 We. 338 00:17:44,978 --> 00:17:45,458 Rob: own in. 339 00:17:45,518 --> 00:17:46,568 Use your own intuition. 340 00:17:46,568 --> 00:17:46,838 Come 341 00:17:47,046 --> 00:17:51,456 Kevin: Yeah, so there was too much explanation that actually hurt 342 00:17:51,456 --> 00:17:54,876 the believability in some places and in other places not so much. 343 00:17:55,356 --> 00:18:01,956 Um, the, I feel like this is a recurring issue for Strange New Worlds that I 344 00:18:01,956 --> 00:18:06,396 don't know if there, they're losing it in the editing, but there's often a lack 345 00:18:06,396 --> 00:18:08,946 of clarity of exactly what is going on. 346 00:18:09,186 --> 00:18:15,426 The final like solution of stepping into the void to rev, to reveal the bridge, 347 00:18:16,656 --> 00:18:22,026 to walk across it, to unlock the door that they know is meant is going to be 348 00:18:22,026 --> 00:18:27,876 unlocked because of reverse causality, like that was a lot of like Star Trekky 349 00:18:27,876 --> 00:18:30,576 words, uh, that almost made sense. 350 00:18:30,576 --> 00:18:35,016 But I'm like, it left me going, wait, what exactly is meant, are we 351 00:18:35,016 --> 00:18:36,606 meant to understand has happened? 352 00:18:36,896 --> 00:18:37,346 Rob: Yes. 353 00:18:37,573 --> 00:18:41,323 Kevin: And that seems to happen a lot in Star Trek, uh, Strange New Worlds lately 354 00:18:41,323 --> 00:18:46,363 is like, you get to the end of the episode and go, hang on, what is exact, what, what 355 00:18:46,363 --> 00:18:48,313 was I meant to understand from that scene? 356 00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:52,740 Rob: did indeed have to take our own leap of faith to, uh, to accept that. 357 00:18:53,203 --> 00:18:58,093 Kevin: One thing I did like, I'm pretty sure that I found in the 358 00:18:58,093 --> 00:19:01,963 rewatch, there's a moment where as soon as they get separated, Spock 359 00:19:01,963 --> 00:19:07,273 and Korby are back in the original room and there's a line from Spock. 360 00:19:07,273 --> 00:19:11,653 He says, but look, and he looks to the door and we see a shot of the door, 361 00:19:11,923 --> 00:19:14,083 and the door has a red access panel. 362 00:19:14,205 --> 00:19:14,425 Rob: Yes. 363 00:19:15,103 --> 00:19:18,748 Kevin: And I'm like, that's what it looked like the last time we saw the door. 364 00:19:18,748 --> 00:19:19,978 What are you talking about, Spock? 365 00:19:20,308 --> 00:19:24,928 In the later scene, he says, when Korby and I were separated, the door, the bridge 366 00:19:24,928 --> 00:19:27,148 was there and the access panel was white. 367 00:19:27,178 --> 00:19:30,718 And I was like, hang on, it wasn't, and I rewound and it's red. 368 00:19:30,928 --> 00:19:33,988 So I think they made the access panel the wrong color in that shot. 369 00:19:35,985 --> 00:19:37,035 Rob: Lost it in the edit. 370 00:19:37,408 --> 00:19:38,103 Kevin: Yeah, exactly. 371 00:19:38,283 --> 00:19:42,298 So like a lot of this sort of stuff I think plagues this episode 372 00:19:42,298 --> 00:19:44,278 where it's not quite clear. 373 00:19:44,805 --> 00:19:45,225 Rob: True. 374 00:19:45,465 --> 00:19:48,885 I was grateful to finally have what I thought I was promised 375 00:19:48,885 --> 00:19:50,085 at the start of the season. 376 00:19:50,265 --> 00:19:55,455 We had a little bit of Scotty and Pelia together, um, and, uh, and 377 00:19:55,455 --> 00:19:59,865 saving the day by capturing the, uh, the creature as it, uh, it was 378 00:19:59,865 --> 00:20:02,115 excised from, uh, uh, Gamble's body. 379 00:20:02,505 --> 00:20:05,595 Um, but full credit to Carol Kane this episode. 380 00:20:05,595 --> 00:20:07,095 What an amazing. 381 00:20:07,305 --> 00:20:12,345 Like her ability to switch in her description right at the end of no, 382 00:20:12,495 --> 00:20:15,015 some things out there are just evil. 383 00:20:15,555 --> 00:20:16,455 Um, 384 00:20:16,843 --> 00:20:22,003 Kevin: If they hadn't leaned on that theme so hard with the Gorn last season, 385 00:20:22,003 --> 00:20:26,263 like the, we are told the whole point of the Gorn last season is that there 386 00:20:26,263 --> 00:20:28,423 are true monsters in the universe. 387 00:20:28,453 --> 00:20:31,933 And I was like, okay, like, interesting idea, we'll go there. 388 00:20:31,963 --> 00:20:36,763 And then to go there again, I, I know it seems like it's somewhat linked with the 389 00:20:36,793 --> 00:20:42,793 Gorn, but as far as I can tell, again, not completely clear, but Batel's Gorn 390 00:20:42,793 --> 00:20:52,633 true evil was a nemesis of the, the Vezda true evil that was occupying, uh, Gamble 391 00:20:53,053 --> 00:20:55,783 and, and they true evil to each other. 392 00:20:57,493 --> 00:21:01,753 Like there's a lot of true evil going on here that I, I, I am not sure what, 393 00:21:01,843 --> 00:21:02,953 what point they're trying to make. 394 00:21:02,953 --> 00:21:07,033 Is, it doesn't feel quite as interesting as they think it is as a theme. 395 00:21:07,740 --> 00:21:11,280 Rob: You know, it is that case of like, 'cause especially at the end of last 396 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:17,985 season, they were showing an intelligence and a and a, different levels and a, 397 00:21:17,985 --> 00:21:23,385 and a and a, a texture to the Gorns that, as we've talked about in the start 398 00:21:23,385 --> 00:21:26,655 of this season with Hegemony, Part II they kind of just swept it under the 399 00:21:26,655 --> 00:21:27,975 carpet and went, no, they're evil. 400 00:21:28,155 --> 00:21:32,235 So maybe it's, you know, we might be seeing a flip again of going, you know. 401 00:21:32,955 --> 00:21:37,485 You think this is evil, this is what re more evil than evil is, and then 402 00:21:37,485 --> 00:21:41,625 we hopefully get back to a point of showing the nuance of the Gorn. 403 00:21:42,048 --> 00:21:42,338 Kevin: Yeah. 404 00:21:42,705 --> 00:21:46,455 Rob: Um, but yeah, that one particular scene that was horrifying was when Gamble 405 00:21:46,455 --> 00:21:53,745 was captured, and not only did he kill the red shirt, but he taunted him and 406 00:21:53,755 --> 00:21:58,735 mentally tortured him by describing like the death of that guy's mother and break. 407 00:21:58,765 --> 00:22:03,445 And then they're going, that is just all level, that was beautifully 408 00:22:03,445 --> 00:22:05,575 acted and the tension ratcheted up. 409 00:22:05,575 --> 00:22:08,905 It was a horrifying, horrifying, uh, moment. 410 00:22:09,473 --> 00:22:12,053 Kevin: I just really, I, I really loved just the moments of 411 00:22:12,053 --> 00:22:14,963 the, the red shirts chasing him through the hallways of the ship. 412 00:22:14,963 --> 00:22:18,833 And then, you know, M'Benga catches up with them and there's a crew member 413 00:22:18,833 --> 00:22:23,593 on the ground and starting to, to like see some nameless members of the crew 414 00:22:23,593 --> 00:22:27,643 is starting to flesh out this sense of it being a big ship and a big crew. 415 00:22:27,823 --> 00:22:31,063 I don't know if it's, again, budget constraints, but I feel like a lot 416 00:22:31,063 --> 00:22:35,473 of the time the Enterprise feels strangely empty except for like our 417 00:22:35,473 --> 00:22:37,693 eight characters that we know by name. 418 00:22:38,173 --> 00:22:40,873 Uh, and that's not usually the case with Star Trek. 419 00:22:40,933 --> 00:22:44,473 You think back to the Promenade on Deep Space Nine or the corridors, the, the 420 00:22:44,473 --> 00:22:48,883 Enterprise D on Next Gen, there were, and even the original series, there were 421 00:22:48,883 --> 00:22:50,683 always people walking back and forth. 422 00:22:50,863 --> 00:22:55,063 There were lots of extras on the ship to sell the idea of a big crew. 423 00:22:55,273 --> 00:22:58,633 And we just got a little taste of it in that scene there and I realized 424 00:22:58,633 --> 00:23:00,373 just how much I was hungering for it. 425 00:23:00,373 --> 00:23:01,423 It was very satisfying. 426 00:23:01,555 --> 00:23:05,305 Rob: is giving me that feel of like this skeleton crew of like the movies. 427 00:23:05,623 --> 00:23:06,043 Kevin: Yes. 428 00:23:06,325 --> 00:23:10,195 Rob: You know, um, Star Trek III, IV and, and V when it, you know, when 429 00:23:10,195 --> 00:23:15,685 you've just got, you know, five people on the bridge and poor old Scotty alone 430 00:23:15,685 --> 00:23:17,125 down in engineering, taking care of. 431 00:23:17,243 --> 00:23:19,643 Kevin: I've seen it remark, especially the scenes in sick bay. 432 00:23:19,703 --> 00:23:23,603 A lot of the time it's mbenga and one patient and like 16 empty 433 00:23:23,603 --> 00:23:26,003 beds and a completely empty room. 434 00:23:26,393 --> 00:23:28,493 Like, what is going on on this ship? 435 00:23:28,493 --> 00:23:29,513 Where is everybody? 436 00:23:29,555 --> 00:23:32,320 Rob: Yeah, that's a Twilight Zone episode. 437 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:32,830 That's not a 438 00:23:32,853 --> 00:23:33,143 Kevin: Yeah. 439 00:23:33,143 --> 00:23:33,353 Yeah. 440 00:23:33,405 --> 00:23:33,725 Rob: episode. 441 00:23:34,583 --> 00:23:38,093 Kevin: But yeah, like for all my, for all my nitpicks and, and 442 00:23:38,153 --> 00:23:42,593 definitely not a perfect episode, I loved what they were swinging at. 443 00:23:42,713 --> 00:23:47,303 I loved how they were, how they were swinging at it for, for 90% of this. 444 00:23:47,723 --> 00:23:51,143 Um, more episodes like this, this season will make me very happy. 445 00:23:51,205 --> 00:23:55,435 Rob: Yeah, I definitely felt there were a lot, there were a lot more surer, uh, 446 00:23:55,465 --> 00:23:57,920 surer footed, which was awesome to see. 447 00:23:58,340 --> 00:23:58,560 Um. 448 00:23:59,425 --> 00:24:02,455 And that's what we do as Star Trek fans online. 449 00:24:02,455 --> 00:24:03,385 We need to nitpick. 450 00:24:03,385 --> 00:24:06,235 That's how we, uh, that's how we live and breathe. 451 00:24:06,505 --> 00:24:09,235 But there's definitely a lot of positives in there. 452 00:24:09,235 --> 00:24:13,345 And something that, certainly for me, I went, this is why I fell in love with 453 00:24:13,345 --> 00:24:16,555 this show, um, uh, right from the start. 454 00:24:16,945 --> 00:24:22,075 And so I, and I was hoping that it, this show wouldn't lose its way as so many 455 00:24:22,075 --> 00:24:26,905 other of, uh, some of the other modern Star Trek, um, live action shows have. 456 00:24:27,175 --> 00:24:28,255 So this was, yeah. 457 00:24:29,168 --> 00:24:29,708 Kevin: Excellent. 458 00:24:29,738 --> 00:24:33,733 Well, let's talk about other instances of body possession. 459 00:24:33,835 --> 00:24:35,755 Rob: Mm. Let's do it. 460 00:24:36,608 --> 00:24:38,633 Kevin: I went back to the original series for this one. 461 00:24:39,325 --> 00:24:40,075 Rob: Excellent. 462 00:24:40,075 --> 00:24:43,735 Well, you can start us off and then I will, uh, I've, I've got two, so 463 00:24:43,735 --> 00:24:45,085 I'll talk about them very quickly. 464 00:24:46,208 --> 00:24:49,778 Kevin: All right, so this, this episode is season two, 465 00:24:49,778 --> 00:24:53,888 episode 20, Return to Tomorrow. 466 00:24:54,157 --> 00:24:59,002 It's a often overlooked episode, right, right, like towards the 467 00:24:59,002 --> 00:25:00,892 latter half of the second season. 468 00:25:00,892 --> 00:25:04,192 So just by the, by the episode number you would be expecting 469 00:25:04,192 --> 00:25:05,602 this is Star Trek at its peak. 470 00:25:05,602 --> 00:25:12,997 And definitely it has that, um, assured performances, full formed characters, 471 00:25:13,297 --> 00:25:17,347 just the right banter between the characters, all the dynamics between 472 00:25:17,347 --> 00:25:19,267 people are firing, uh, well here. 473 00:25:19,267 --> 00:25:26,317 But the story itself is, um, I, I will say, uh, not standout, but it is 474 00:25:26,317 --> 00:25:31,897 certainly relevant to our topic this week because, uh, in this, the, the 475 00:25:31,897 --> 00:25:37,837 Enterprise is, uh, out in, in uncharted space, and they happen upon, uh, a 476 00:25:37,837 --> 00:25:40,297 signal that is drawing them to a planet. 477 00:25:40,897 --> 00:25:46,777 And as they, uh, approach the bridge is, uh, overtaken by 478 00:25:46,777 --> 00:25:49,087 a voice, the voice of Sargon. 479 00:25:49,748 --> 00:25:51,158 Rob: Sar— okay. 480 00:25:51,502 --> 00:25:58,672 Kevin: Introduces himself as a, uh, a being who is as dead as the world below. 481 00:25:58,672 --> 00:26:03,592 And the Spock, Spock scanners say the, the world, uh, used to be Class 482 00:26:03,592 --> 00:26:07,822 M but had its atmosphere ripped away half a million years ago. 483 00:26:07,882 --> 00:26:10,402 And there are, it is completely lifeless. 484 00:26:10,432 --> 00:26:12,322 And yet there's a voice coming from below. 485 00:26:12,322 --> 00:26:14,722 So a beautiful tantalizing opening. 486 00:26:14,828 --> 00:26:20,032 Rob: I love the, I love the poetry of sixties Star Trek, and poetry 487 00:26:20,032 --> 00:26:22,072 of sixties sci-fi in general. 488 00:26:22,252 --> 00:26:27,982 It was same with, uh, it, it was tangled in with, um, Twilight Zone and even 489 00:26:28,432 --> 00:26:34,012 with, um, in the fifties and even with uh Doctor Who, that poetic description 490 00:26:34,102 --> 00:26:39,922 of a scientific concept to make it more relatable for the audiences at the time. 491 00:26:40,072 --> 00:26:44,962 I love that type of, how do you, how, put it in layman's terms, but 492 00:26:44,962 --> 00:26:46,762 also add a flare to it as well. 493 00:26:46,822 --> 00:26:49,972 I love that type of, uh, um, description work. 494 00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:50,900 Kevin: Yeah, very. 495 00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:55,340 I mean, just the titles from the original series are really evocative 496 00:26:55,340 --> 00:26:58,460 and I, I feel like they're getting, they're, they're starting to get a 497 00:26:58,460 --> 00:27:01,850 bit back to that with, uh, Strange New Worlds, which is nice to see. 498 00:27:01,912 --> 00:27:03,267 Rob: throw us curve balls, of course 499 00:27:03,380 --> 00:27:04,040 Kevin: Yeah, they do. 500 00:27:04,190 --> 00:27:04,700 Yes. 501 00:27:05,057 --> 00:27:05,347 Rob: time. 502 00:27:05,377 --> 00:27:06,307 It's about time. 503 00:27:06,307 --> 00:27:06,787 Alright. 504 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,040 Kevin: Yeah, but this episode title Return Tomorrow to Tomorrow. 505 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,880 It's, it's back to the future before, Back to the Future in the eighties. 506 00:27:13,940 --> 00:27:15,410 Uh, but uh, 507 00:27:15,427 --> 00:27:15,847 Rob: heavy. 508 00:27:16,057 --> 00:27:17,407 This is indeed heavy. 509 00:27:17,467 --> 00:27:18,187 Great Scott. 510 00:27:18,695 --> 00:27:24,335 Kevin: Yeah, so they, they are invited to beam down to, uh, meet 511 00:27:24,335 --> 00:27:27,485 this, this voice from the past. 512 00:27:27,515 --> 00:27:33,485 And, uh, they are, they're told the given coordinates that are deep below 513 00:27:33,485 --> 00:27:38,365 the planet's surface far, far deeper than, the transporter could normally 514 00:27:38,365 --> 00:27:40,585 reach, but they were assured it will. 515 00:27:40,945 --> 00:27:43,915 And Kirk says, oh Spock, you better stay aboard. 516 00:27:43,915 --> 00:27:45,595 This is too risky for both of us to go. 517 00:27:45,595 --> 00:27:48,445 And immediately the, all the power on the ship goes dead. 518 00:27:48,445 --> 00:27:49,765 And Kirk goes, well, I guess. 519 00:27:50,035 --> 00:27:52,255 I guess we've been told you're coming with us, Spock, and 520 00:27:52,255 --> 00:27:53,755 all the power comes back up. 521 00:27:54,085 --> 00:27:58,565 And so this is not just a, a, uh, dead voice, but it is 522 00:27:58,565 --> 00:28:00,275 a very powerful one as well. 523 00:28:00,695 --> 00:28:05,435 They end up beaming down and, uh, discovering a glowing orb 524 00:28:05,495 --> 00:28:07,775 on a, on a pedestal in a room. 525 00:28:07,775 --> 00:28:12,185 And this is the source of Sargon's voice, who introduces himself as one 526 00:28:12,185 --> 00:28:16,595 of the few surviving members of a dead race that used to inhabit this planet. 527 00:28:17,285 --> 00:28:26,885 That they had grown so, uh, so powerful in their evolution that they had 528 00:28:26,885 --> 00:28:31,308 overcome the, the, physical death of their bodies and had managed to preserve 529 00:28:31,308 --> 00:28:34,188 their essences in these spheres. 530 00:28:34,758 --> 00:28:38,688 Uh, and the, it turns out there's a, there's a side room with a whole bunch 531 00:28:38,688 --> 00:28:43,365 of other spheres and very Space Seed like, they're most of the, most of 532 00:28:43,365 --> 00:28:47,895 the spheres are dead, but there are two left lit. And so these are the 533 00:28:47,895 --> 00:28:50,385 three surviving members of this race. 534 00:28:50,565 --> 00:28:57,305 Sargon is their leader, uh, his wife Thalassa, and Henoch from the 535 00:28:57,305 --> 00:28:59,585 other side is how he's introduced. 536 00:28:59,765 --> 00:29:02,015 So this, this race went to war. 537 00:29:02,075 --> 00:29:07,685 They, they annihilated themselves and in on the brink of their own extinction, 538 00:29:07,895 --> 00:29:11,710 they managed to preserve a few of their best and brightest in this chamber 539 00:29:11,710 --> 00:29:14,230 in order to live on into the future. 540 00:29:14,590 --> 00:29:20,440 They, they explain that this race had, um, in a very familiar, uh, bit of world 541 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,930 building for Star Trek, this race had, uh, spanned the galaxy and seeded their 542 00:29:25,930 --> 00:29:28,090 essence on planets all over the place. 543 00:29:28,090 --> 00:29:32,240 And they knew that if they stayed in suspended animation long enough, the 544 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,740 fruits of their seeding would eventually come looking for them, and they would 545 00:29:36,890 --> 00:29:42,470 be able to offer their guidance to this, uh, this like their children, as it were. 546 00:29:42,687 --> 00:29:45,472 Rob: I think I might take back my, uh, description of poetic. 547 00:29:50,180 --> 00:29:53,840 Seeding my seeding, their e seeding, their essence is, um, 548 00:29:54,948 --> 00:29:57,468 Kevin: Sargon was much more eloquent than me, Rob. 549 00:29:57,468 --> 00:29:59,388 I just, I'm not doing him justice. 550 00:30:01,460 --> 00:30:03,585 Rob: Seems like you are from the other side there. 551 00:30:03,618 --> 00:30:04,038 Kevin: Yes. 552 00:30:04,068 --> 00:30:08,418 But, uh, in, in return for this promise of this long lost knowledge of this 553 00:30:08,418 --> 00:30:12,738 all powerful species, they have a small request, which is to borrow the bodies 554 00:30:12,738 --> 00:30:18,918 of three of the Enterprise crew just long enough for them to be able to manufacture 555 00:30:19,518 --> 00:30:25,998 "robotic Android bodies", unquote, for them to occupy and, uh, and live in. 556 00:30:26,135 --> 00:30:27,785 Rob: I don't, I I think you're just being cynical. 557 00:30:27,785 --> 00:30:29,495 I don't see anything going wrong with this. 558 00:30:29,523 --> 00:30:30,153 Kevin: No could, 559 00:30:30,815 --> 00:30:31,625 Rob: Sounds perfectly fine. 560 00:30:31,625 --> 00:30:33,005 They just wanna borrow it for a little bit. 561 00:30:33,185 --> 00:30:34,775 You take it out for a bit of a road test. 562 00:30:35,403 --> 00:30:38,853 Kevin: Everyone is very happy to go along with this plan except McCoy. 563 00:30:38,913 --> 00:30:39,993 McCoy is the voice of 564 00:30:40,260 --> 00:30:41,360 Rob: of course he is. 565 00:30:42,258 --> 00:30:46,128 Kevin: And, uh, there's a, there's an excellent conference room scene where 566 00:30:46,128 --> 00:30:48,978 they sit down and debate the issues. 567 00:30:49,368 --> 00:30:53,568 And this is the episode where Kirk's famous "Risk is our 568 00:30:53,568 --> 00:30:54,918 business" speech comes from. 569 00:30:55,225 --> 00:30:55,445 Rob: Ah. 570 00:30:56,478 --> 00:30:57,348 Kevin: Risk. 571 00:30:57,378 --> 00:30:59,358 Risk is our business. 572 00:30:59,478 --> 00:31:01,718 That's why we're aboard her! 573 00:31:01,908 --> 00:31:06,258 Like it's a, it's a surprisingly long, uh, speech. 574 00:31:06,798 --> 00:31:10,608 It is often quoted in very abbreviated form because a lot of the speech 575 00:31:10,608 --> 00:31:16,028 is about specifics of the episode, but Shatner is acting his guts out 576 00:31:16,028 --> 00:31:17,648 in that, in that speech for sure. 577 00:31:18,398 --> 00:31:18,458 Um. 578 00:31:19,748 --> 00:31:25,868 Also around that table is Diana Muldaur, who we know from TNG as Dr. Pulaski. 579 00:31:26,408 --> 00:31:33,008 She is a guest star in two separate episodes of the original series, uh, 580 00:31:33,008 --> 00:31:36,328 Return to Tomorrow here for the first time, and then the very next season, 581 00:31:36,368 --> 00:31:40,598 less than a year later in production time, she plays a completely different 582 00:31:40,598 --> 00:31:45,278 character in Is There in Truth No Beauty?, which is the introduction of the 583 00:31:45,278 --> 00:31:49,028 Medusans who gave us Zero in uh, Prodigy. 584 00:31:49,285 --> 00:31:50,390 Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 585 00:31:50,390 --> 00:31:52,160 A lot of convergence in this episode. 586 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:52,370 A lot 587 00:31:52,398 --> 00:31:53,058 Kevin: Yeah, yeah. 588 00:31:53,988 --> 00:31:58,055 But the character she plays here is a Lieutenant Commander and, uh, that 589 00:31:58,055 --> 00:32:02,945 was called out as this is the highest ranking female officer we ever see 590 00:32:02,945 --> 00:32:04,982 in Starfleet in the original series. 591 00:32:05,032 --> 00:32:06,442 Rob: Wow. 592 00:32:06,602 --> 00:32:07,002 Uhura's 593 00:32:07,070 --> 00:32:11,720 Kevin: And she's a for a guest star and a very beautiful woman who was 594 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:18,770 obviously cast for her beauty at the time, um, she plays a very active role in 595 00:32:18,770 --> 00:32:23,775 debating the issues and, and like being an active member of the Landing Party. 596 00:32:23,775 --> 00:32:27,555 I feel like I'm damning her with faint praise, but watching it for the time, 597 00:32:27,555 --> 00:32:32,085 she was a very impressive presence and reminded me of Commander Shelby 598 00:32:32,085 --> 00:32:34,875 in Best of Both Worlds in, in TNG. 599 00:32:35,025 --> 00:32:38,895 Very similar in in, in that even though she's a one episode guest 600 00:32:38,895 --> 00:32:43,365 star, she feels very much like a peer to the rest of the crew during this 601 00:32:43,365 --> 00:32:44,975 episode, and it's, it's really good. 602 00:32:45,345 --> 00:32:50,895 Her and, her and Shatner obviously get to kiss while occupied by husband and wife. 603 00:32:50,955 --> 00:32:53,055 Uh, of course. 604 00:32:53,115 --> 00:32:54,735 So there was definitely that. 605 00:32:54,795 --> 00:32:59,895 But uh, but yeah, nevertheless, uh, great character, well written, given a lot 606 00:32:59,895 --> 00:33:02,985 to do of actual Starfleet work as well. 607 00:33:03,067 --> 00:33:06,457 Rob: And seems almost a shame, especially with the episodic nature at that time, 608 00:33:06,457 --> 00:33:10,357 that that was, you know, a character that we couldn't see come back and return 609 00:33:10,357 --> 00:33:14,287 and possibly would've in today's, or even in the, even in the nineties era 610 00:33:14,287 --> 00:33:18,817 of Star Trek, that type of well-written, strong character would definitely have 611 00:33:18,817 --> 00:33:21,007 made at least the occasional return. 612 00:33:22,325 --> 00:33:26,135 Kevin: Ultimately this, the message of this episode is absolute power corrupts 613 00:33:26,317 --> 00:33:27,187 Rob: Absolutely. 614 00:33:27,272 --> 00:33:27,692 Mm-hmm. 615 00:33:28,865 --> 00:33:32,285 Kevin: That begins with, uh, Hennoch who is occupying Spock's 616 00:33:32,285 --> 00:33:35,645 body, who, uh, brainwashes Chapel. 617 00:33:36,095 --> 00:33:39,995 Uh, these, these, when the, these aliens are occupying our crew members, 618 00:33:39,995 --> 00:33:42,155 their metabolisms run super fast. 619 00:33:42,155 --> 00:33:45,455 And so they need injections in order to not kill the host body. 620 00:33:45,725 --> 00:33:52,475 And, uh, Henoch, inhabiting Spock, works with Chapel to prepare these injections 621 00:33:52,475 --> 00:33:59,005 and Spock, uh, or Hennoch explains very coldly that, uh, Kirk is to get a 622 00:33:59,005 --> 00:34:02,275 different, less potent, uh, uh, mixture. 623 00:34:02,545 --> 00:34:05,155 And Chapel goes, well, won't that kill Captain Kirk? 624 00:34:05,155 --> 00:34:07,165 And he goes, yes, I don't see the problem. 625 00:34:07,435 --> 00:34:10,585 Uh, Sargon will not let me keep this body and I want to 626 00:34:10,585 --> 00:34:12,715 keep this body so he must die. 627 00:34:12,805 --> 00:34:16,645 And then he touches her on the forehead and she immediately forgets everything 628 00:34:16,645 --> 00:34:18,235 and is brainwashed before him. 629 00:34:18,565 --> 00:34:22,790 And, and she spends the, like the next few scenes kind of second guessing 630 00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:24,710 herself and going, hang on, is this right? 631 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,270 Yeah, no, I'm just confused. 632 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:31,430 And it's really like really effective and creepy to see her mind taken from her. 633 00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:34,670 But no one really notices 'cause she seems normal otherwise. 634 00:34:34,767 --> 00:34:37,537 Rob: Majel Barrett would've acted the pants off of that scene. 635 00:34:37,595 --> 00:34:40,085 Kevin: Yeah, some good Spock and Chapel stuff here. 636 00:34:40,085 --> 00:34:44,225 Like, these are the scenes that I, I am very curious how they are going to 637 00:34:44,225 --> 00:34:49,385 play after we, after Strange New Worlds runs its course and we see where Spock 638 00:34:49,385 --> 00:34:54,395 and Chapel, uh, their relationship is ultimately left because in these scenes 639 00:34:54,395 --> 00:35:00,035 it is very, it is very clear that Chapel is head over heels in love for 640 00:35:00,035 --> 00:35:01,895 Spock, completely infatuated for him. 641 00:35:02,135 --> 00:35:07,115 And he takes zero notice, is completely oblivious to this. 642 00:35:07,415 --> 00:35:12,345 Uh, when he is inhabited, the first thing he says when waking up as Hennoch 643 00:35:12,575 --> 00:35:15,215 is, oh, like Chapel's looking over him. 644 00:35:15,215 --> 00:35:20,525 And he goes, what a beautiful woman to wake up to after 500,000 years. 645 00:35:20,645 --> 00:35:22,170 She goes, thank you. 646 00:35:22,380 --> 00:35:25,620 And, and yeah, it's, that is very played up. 647 00:35:25,620 --> 00:35:29,880 And so, uh, I don't know how we are gonna get Chapel to that point and Spock 648 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:35,790 to the point of, of completely blanking her in these situations going forward. 649 00:35:36,097 --> 00:35:40,297 Rob: It is a bold move to ghost someone when you're still in their presence. 650 00:35:40,297 --> 00:35:40,597 It's 651 00:35:40,610 --> 00:35:41,720 Kevin: Yes, exactly. 652 00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:42,230 Yeah. 653 00:35:42,860 --> 00:35:46,130 But, uh, yeah, so Henoch wants to do the wrong thing. 654 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:53,386 He, uh, talks, um, our, our lieutenant commander, who has got the Sargon's 655 00:35:53,406 --> 00:35:57,666 wife, he like seduces her into, or do you really want to live in 656 00:35:57,666 --> 00:36:00,396 an android body with no feeling. 657 00:36:00,666 --> 00:36:05,136 Uh, you say yourself, how good it feels to breathe and to touch again. 658 00:36:05,496 --> 00:36:07,116 Can you really let that go again? 659 00:36:07,116 --> 00:36:08,946 And she is, she is tempted. 660 00:36:09,246 --> 00:36:14,496 At a, at a moment she snaps in like tortures McCoy with, with ethereal flames. 661 00:36:14,496 --> 00:36:17,616 And then she catches herself and she goes, Oh no, Sargon was right. 662 00:36:18,096 --> 00:36:26,046 And uh, and they inevitably defeat Hennoch and decide that, uh, they cannot live on, 663 00:36:26,106 --> 00:36:28,866 they must go off into oblivion together. 664 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,675 Rob: Sounds very, damn poetic to me. 665 00:36:32,203 --> 00:36:32,653 Kevin: Yeah. 666 00:36:32,693 --> 00:36:37,513 There's a fun fake out on the bridge, Henoch has like taken over the bridge, uh, 667 00:36:37,513 --> 00:36:43,903 and is torturing people on the bridge, and he thinks he has killed, uh, um, Spock. 668 00:36:44,353 --> 00:36:49,333 Um, but Spock is actually, Spock's consciousness is actually in Chapel. 669 00:36:49,603 --> 00:36:53,473 And then, uh, Chapel injects him by surprise with some, some, 670 00:36:53,593 --> 00:36:55,633 what he thinks is Vulcan poison. 671 00:36:55,908 --> 00:36:58,608 But it's just because they're playing a mind trick on him. 672 00:36:58,608 --> 00:37:01,998 So he collapses to the floor, flees the body, and dies. 673 00:37:02,328 --> 00:37:08,178 But, uh, but Spock is fine and he returns from Chapel into his own body. 674 00:37:08,178 --> 00:37:11,298 And then Chapel's like we shared consciousness and is 675 00:37:11,298 --> 00:37:13,038 very happy about that fact. 676 00:37:13,675 --> 00:37:15,870 Rob: And Spock's there shutting it down, I bet. 677 00:37:16,103 --> 00:37:19,253 Kevin: Being occupied by this all powerful force. 678 00:37:19,253 --> 00:37:26,003 Very, very much, uh, a plot line in play very early on in Star Trek. 679 00:37:26,213 --> 00:37:30,923 I have these faint memories, I don't know how accurate they are, but I feel like 680 00:37:31,073 --> 00:37:36,728 w, when I was first watching Star Trek as a very young fan, these episodes of like 681 00:37:36,728 --> 00:37:40,388 body possession were some of the ones where I was like, I don't know about that. 682 00:37:40,388 --> 00:37:41,738 This is a bit magical. 683 00:37:42,278 --> 00:37:45,068 This is a little too much fiction in my science fiction. 684 00:37:45,068 --> 00:37:48,818 It like, it crossed a line for me, but rewatching it today. 685 00:37:48,818 --> 00:37:52,753 I don't know if my, like, the goalposts have shifted, but it felt 686 00:37:52,753 --> 00:37:55,213 like pretty fair stuff for Star Trek. 687 00:37:55,213 --> 00:37:59,773 And I thought, uh, a showcase of acting for especially those three 688 00:37:59,773 --> 00:38:01,363 performers that were inhabited. 689 00:38:01,465 --> 00:38:05,665 Rob: Oh, it's always a great one for, for actors who are regulars on the show to get 690 00:38:05,665 --> 00:38:11,580 that meaty sense of what they can do, show their range, darling, show their range. 691 00:38:11,740 --> 00:38:15,190 But it does really does sound like an episode with a, you know, those hint 692 00:38:15,220 --> 00:38:20,110 faint hints of, we were talking about it previously about no real signs of religion 693 00:38:20,110 --> 00:38:25,150 or faith within Star Trek, but there is that sense of, you know, accepting that 694 00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:30,940 your life is over and that sense of moving on to the next plane of existence has sort 695 00:38:30,940 --> 00:38:33,700 like elements of religion within there. 696 00:38:34,223 --> 00:38:37,613 Kevin: Yeah, I, I think it's conspicuous for the time that they didn't say we were 697 00:38:37,613 --> 00:38:40,763 going off to heaven together or we're going off to the afterlife together. 698 00:38:40,763 --> 00:38:43,643 They said we were, we were departing into oblivion. 699 00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:43,960 Rob: Yeah. 700 00:38:44,993 --> 00:38:46,763 Kevin: And there's some poetic like. 701 00:38:47,548 --> 00:38:52,918 Yeah, there is a poetic exchange of dialogue between them where, where, um, 702 00:38:53,128 --> 00:38:58,168 where Thalassa the wife is, is saying, I am not afraid of going to oblivion. 703 00:38:58,168 --> 00:39:01,708 As long as I get to share it with you, husband and chap, 704 00:39:01,708 --> 00:39:03,958 Chapel goes, it was beautiful. 705 00:39:07,675 --> 00:39:11,545 Rob: I'm so, uh, I, I haven't seen much of Majel Barrett as Chapel. 706 00:39:11,545 --> 00:39:16,995 I've seen her as number one, obviously, and her wonderful work as Lwaxana. 707 00:39:17,305 --> 00:39:23,245 Um, so to see, to see her so lovey dovey is, uh, yeah, is 708 00:39:23,245 --> 00:39:28,683 gonna be a trip for me when I, uh, endeavor to see more of, uh, TOS. 709 00:39:29,528 --> 00:39:32,318 Kevin: She was given lots to do here and, uh, yeah, in her, in, I 710 00:39:32,318 --> 00:39:35,258 think like an underrated episode. 711 00:39:35,258 --> 00:39:40,538 Just 'cause it's not flashy, there's not a lot of kinda twists or anything like that. 712 00:39:40,928 --> 00:39:47,318 It, there's nothing that makes it super memorable, but it's a solid plot and 713 00:39:47,318 --> 00:39:49,268 solid performances by all concerned. 714 00:39:49,268 --> 00:39:50,918 I'd, I'd definitely recommend the watch. 715 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,160 Rob: And with the risk is our business, uh, monologue in there. 716 00:39:54,370 --> 00:39:54,670 There we 717 00:39:54,698 --> 00:39:55,208 Kevin: for sure. 718 00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:58,450 Rob: Um, well, I'm gonna jump ahead into your arena. 719 00:39:58,510 --> 00:40:02,020 I'm gonna jump into, um, uh, TNG. 720 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,345 We're gonna go to season five, episode 15. 721 00:40:05,345 --> 00:40:07,175 Let's go to Power Play. 722 00:40:08,523 --> 00:40:09,333 Kevin: Very good. 723 00:40:09,333 --> 00:40:12,183 That was, that, that jumped immediately to mind. 724 00:40:12,298 --> 00:40:16,083 And then I, I thought, you know what's more interesting is this TOS episode. 725 00:40:16,083 --> 00:40:17,703 So I'm glad you, I'm glad you went there. 726 00:40:17,703 --> 00:40:18,993 'cause I, I love this one. 727 00:40:19,070 --> 00:40:20,390 Rob: Yes, it's a really good one. 728 00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:25,400 And it's like, of course, season five, uh, firing in all cylinder cylinders. 729 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,590 We've got, uh, Ro in there. 730 00:40:27,590 --> 00:40:28,910 Get to see Michelle Forbes. 731 00:40:29,210 --> 00:40:30,560 Shout out to Michelle Forbes. 732 00:40:30,770 --> 00:40:35,950 Um, and we get to see Marina Sirtis, uh, show a bit of her acting range. 733 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,430 We get to see Colm Meaney being an asshole. 734 00:40:39,743 --> 00:40:40,033 Kevin: Yeah. 735 00:40:42,128 --> 00:40:43,328 Not so Smiley now. 736 00:40:43,390 --> 00:40:45,370 Rob: Not so Smiley at all. 737 00:40:45,610 --> 00:40:48,460 And of course Brent Spiner can do no wrong, so of course he's 738 00:40:48,460 --> 00:40:52,600 gonna play, you know, a thuggish henchman absolutely beautifully. 739 00:40:53,168 --> 00:40:53,678 Kevin: Yeah. 740 00:40:53,858 --> 00:40:59,078 Uh, I feel like this episode was in part, uh, a writer's solution 741 00:40:59,078 --> 00:41:00,538 to what do we do, give Marina 742 00:41:01,345 --> 00:41:03,100 Rob: Yeah, give her some stuff, guys. 743 00:41:03,453 --> 00:41:07,943 Kevin: Troi's character, the, at least the the handed down lore is 744 00:41:07,943 --> 00:41:12,233 that the writers found it challenging to come up with storylines for 745 00:41:12,233 --> 00:41:14,093 Troi that were interesting to tell. 746 00:41:14,273 --> 00:41:16,883 So yeah, make her possessed by a warlord. 747 00:41:16,883 --> 00:41:17,663 Give her something to do. 748 00:41:17,663 --> 00:41:19,343 It's, it was, it worked really well. 749 00:41:19,540 --> 00:41:23,740 Rob: So, yes, in this episode, the, uh, the Enterprise is called to, uh, 750 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:30,010 this planet that's surrounded by an impenetrable, sort of like storm, really. 751 00:41:30,010 --> 00:41:33,670 But, um, uh, Troi's getting a sense there's something down there. 752 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,320 Um, Riker takes, uh, an away team down there and, but 753 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:39,550 they have to go via shuttle. 754 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,280 Um, of course it crashes. 755 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:42,880 And so, 756 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,460 Kevin: If it were made today, this episode would be filmed in 757 00:41:45,460 --> 00:41:49,030 the very same rock quarry as this episode of Strange New Worlds? 758 00:41:49,192 --> 00:41:49,677 Rob: Quarry, good quarry 759 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,810 Kevin: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's also the same quarry that we had, 760 00:41:52,810 --> 00:41:55,390 uh, for Trill in, uh, Discovery as 761 00:41:55,707 --> 00:41:56,847 Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 762 00:41:57,027 --> 00:42:00,327 So, um, of course O'Brien comes up with a solution, how he 763 00:42:00,327 --> 00:42:04,197 can beam down and get enough triangulation to beam them all back. 764 00:42:04,467 --> 00:42:08,847 As they're just about to beam back, three of the crew get hit by a lightning from 765 00:42:08,847 --> 00:42:11,247 an, uh, a storm that surrounds the planet. 766 00:42:11,697 --> 00:42:14,972 Um, and they woke wake up, changed. 767 00:42:15,610 --> 00:42:16,600 Kevin: Solid cold open. 768 00:42:16,737 --> 00:42:19,497 Rob: Solid, very solid, very long cold, open as well. 769 00:42:19,707 --> 00:42:23,907 Um, and we get ourselves, uh, into the adventures of sort of like the 770 00:42:23,907 --> 00:42:29,577 three, uh, crewmen finding each other, wanting to go back there. 771 00:42:30,087 --> 00:42:33,597 Um, even though they're planning on leaving straight away and the 772 00:42:33,597 --> 00:42:38,457 eventual, you know, locking down of the ship, securing areas, sort 773 00:42:38,457 --> 00:42:41,007 of like intrusion from the inside. 774 00:42:41,517 --> 00:42:46,587 And, um, it all accumulates with a reveal to Picard. 775 00:42:46,587 --> 00:42:51,687 He like, um, Patrick Stewart is in prime diplomat mode here. 776 00:42:51,867 --> 00:42:52,887 Very honorable, sort of like your. 777 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:54,710 Kevin: Hostage negotiator. 778 00:42:54,867 --> 00:42:55,827 Rob: negotiation. 779 00:42:55,827 --> 00:42:57,567 My crew are far more important than me. 780 00:42:57,747 --> 00:42:58,827 They want me instead. 781 00:42:58,977 --> 00:43:00,687 That is a horrible Patrick Stewart. 782 00:43:00,687 --> 00:43:01,617 I'll never do it again. 783 00:43:02,517 --> 00:43:03,417 Uh, it's right here. 784 00:43:03,477 --> 00:43:04,827 The line must be drawn here. 785 00:43:05,487 --> 00:43:08,427 Uh, um, so he goes into the situation. 786 00:43:08,487 --> 00:43:10,467 Uh, Ten Forward is taken over. 787 00:43:10,797 --> 00:43:14,727 Um, uh, CACO is there, obviously with a, with a baby Molly. 788 00:43:15,087 --> 00:43:16,347 Young, young Molly. 789 00:43:16,617 --> 00:43:19,347 Um, but of course O'Brien can't see. 790 00:43:19,617 --> 00:43:22,437 Oh, it's, and he get, he get, he gets really nasty at some point. 791 00:43:22,687 --> 00:43:28,327 Anyway, um, we find out that these are actually the members of the crew of, uh, a 792 00:43:28,327 --> 00:43:34,837 Federation ship that crashed there and was lost, was lost a 80, a hundred years ago. 793 00:43:34,987 --> 00:43:36,067 A long time. 794 00:43:36,457 --> 00:43:40,547 Um, and so they're trying to get, you know, their bodies back and get their, 795 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:41,590 Kevin: It's right. 796 00:43:41,590 --> 00:43:43,180 I forgot they were a crew. 797 00:43:43,180 --> 00:43:44,680 I said she was a warlord. 798 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,180 I don't know why I remembered it that way. 799 00:43:46,180 --> 00:43:47,620 I must be confusing that with a different 800 00:43:48,007 --> 00:43:49,537 Rob: It's the bait and bait and switch. 801 00:43:49,780 --> 00:43:50,860 Kevin: Oh, it is, 802 00:43:51,027 --> 00:43:54,927 Rob: So they're act, they're, they're saying that they're Federation, uh, 803 00:43:54,927 --> 00:43:59,127 members of this particular starship, but the way they're behaving, as they all 804 00:43:59,127 --> 00:44:03,237 say, that's not Federation behavior, that doesn't seem like Federation behavior. 805 00:44:03,237 --> 00:44:07,497 So Data's, uh, possessed character is very antagonistic towards the 806 00:44:07,497 --> 00:44:10,527 Klingons, uh, to, to poor old Worf. 807 00:44:10,716 --> 00:44:15,996 Kevin: Fun to see Data play emotional not for comedy, but for for drama as well. 808 00:44:16,073 --> 00:44:17,243 Rob: And he's really good. 809 00:44:17,243 --> 00:44:19,043 Like he's quite intimidating. 810 00:44:19,043 --> 00:44:20,783 You do not like him at all. 811 00:44:21,073 --> 00:44:23,753 Marina Sirtis is really good in that leadership role. 812 00:44:23,933 --> 00:44:26,243 Cool, calm, and ruthless. 813 00:44:26,393 --> 00:44:31,808 Um, but has an element of trying to be, trying to sort of like 814 00:44:31,868 --> 00:44:36,938 plead their case, but it's coming across in a quite thuggish way. 815 00:44:36,938 --> 00:44:40,358 It's not sort of like, it's a beautiful performance of playing 816 00:44:40,358 --> 00:44:44,378 someone who's trying to be somebody else by being some, it's three levels. 817 00:44:44,378 --> 00:44:49,028 So she's being possessed, so she's trying to be, so she's Marina Sirtis, trying 818 00:44:49,028 --> 00:44:52,898 to be Troi, trying to be somebody else who's trying to pretend to be a captain. 819 00:44:52,928 --> 00:44:54,608 So that's four layers right there. 820 00:44:54,968 --> 00:44:55,718 So she did an 821 00:44:56,061 --> 00:44:58,131 Kevin: That's an actor's script, that is Rob. 822 00:44:58,328 --> 00:45:01,478 Rob: All the, yeah, all the, all these stage actors or you know, 823 00:45:01,538 --> 00:45:04,178 your, uh, professional television actors for a long time looking at it 824 00:45:04,178 --> 00:45:08,018 going, oh, look at the juicy, juicy steak we've got here to chew on. 825 00:45:08,798 --> 00:45:12,818 Um, so yes, and what it turns out in the end, they're not Federation, 826 00:45:12,818 --> 00:45:17,713 they are obviously criminals who existed within this storm. 827 00:45:17,713 --> 00:45:20,713 Their bodies were kind of destroyed and their essence are in there. 828 00:45:20,923 --> 00:45:25,273 Not only that, there's thousands of others up there in the storm 829 00:45:25,393 --> 00:45:27,223 because this is a penal colony. 830 00:45:27,403 --> 00:45:28,663 It, they're all prisoners. 831 00:45:28,663 --> 00:45:29,653 They've been trapped there. 832 00:45:29,653 --> 00:45:33,673 That part of their punishment for their crimes is to be trapped in torment 833 00:45:33,673 --> 00:45:35,413 for, you know, pretty much forever. 834 00:45:35,476 --> 00:45:36,616 Kevin: Sounds familiar, Rob. 835 00:45:38,933 --> 00:45:41,273 Rob: Are you saying a story's being repeated again? 836 00:45:41,626 --> 00:45:43,156 Kevin: Well, it must have come through the Lens of 837 00:45:43,443 --> 00:45:43,563 Rob: Yeah. 838 00:45:46,383 --> 00:45:49,683 Um, so yes, uh, in the end, all is well. 839 00:45:49,683 --> 00:45:54,033 They try it, it is a really clever thing of them trying to outdo each other. 840 00:45:54,033 --> 00:45:55,323 So they're coming up with plans. 841 00:45:55,323 --> 00:46:00,543 So Ro and um, and, uh, Geordi are coming up with a plan, and then they're 842 00:46:00,603 --> 00:46:04,233 just about to get it, but they only get two of them in the field, not all 843 00:46:04,246 --> 00:46:07,216 Kevin: Yeah, I really remember those scenes in the Jefferies' tube 844 00:46:07,246 --> 00:46:10,396 where they're like drilling the microscopic hole that they're going 845 00:46:10,396 --> 00:46:12,496 to shoot the pain lasers through. 846 00:46:12,496 --> 00:46:14,896 And I really loved all, all that business. 847 00:46:14,896 --> 00:46:19,396 Like the, the, the engineering of that solution is really fun and it, 848 00:46:19,396 --> 00:46:23,026 it establishes some new geography in the ship that there is a, there's 849 00:46:23,026 --> 00:46:26,296 a Jefferies tube above Ten Forward that really tickles me as well. 850 00:46:26,296 --> 00:46:26,806 So, yeah. 851 00:46:27,076 --> 00:46:27,466 Um. 852 00:46:27,991 --> 00:46:29,521 I, that's what I always remember. 853 00:46:29,521 --> 00:46:30,661 I hear power play. 854 00:46:30,661 --> 00:46:34,801 I immediately think Ro and Geordi and the Jefferies' tube above Ten Forward. 855 00:46:34,983 --> 00:46:39,453 Rob: So, yeah, that's, uh, and in the end, obviously the, the, the criminals go 856 00:46:39,453 --> 00:46:43,803 back to their imprisonment and everyone gets back and, um, of course Troi does 857 00:46:43,803 --> 00:46:46,833 her, I could sense this and I, you know, I could, I was watching from the 858 00:46:46,833 --> 00:46:48,633 outside, but I couldn't do anything. 859 00:46:48,843 --> 00:46:52,713 And then a beautiful moment right at the end with Data and Worf going, 860 00:46:52,803 --> 00:46:54,998 uh, I'm really sorry about what I did and all the stuff I said. 861 00:46:57,513 --> 00:46:59,523 It goes, it was very unpleasant. 862 00:46:59,973 --> 00:47:04,683 So yes, that was uh Power Play of me diving into TNG, which I was very, uh, 863 00:47:04,713 --> 00:47:06,243 grateful to do and it was a really solid 864 00:47:06,466 --> 00:47:10,006 Kevin: One of the early chapters in the traumatization of Molly O'Brien. 865 00:47:10,143 --> 00:47:11,193 Rob: Poor old Molly. 866 00:47:11,403 --> 00:47:12,963 Always, constantly, yeah. 867 00:47:12,963 --> 00:47:16,473 Keiko's getting her fair share of trauma as well, not liking it at all. 868 00:47:16,653 --> 00:47:20,913 I'll just a quick little mention of, um, uh, Deep Space Nine. 869 00:47:20,913 --> 00:47:22,803 I couldn't go through an episode without Deep Space Nine. 870 00:47:22,803 --> 00:47:29,583 The end of season six, episode 26, the death of Jadzia Dax, um, with, uh, Tears 871 00:47:29,583 --> 00:47:35,733 of the Prophets with, um, Gul Dukat, uh, being possessed by the, uh, the 872 00:47:35,911 --> 00:47:37,291 Kevin: Pah-wraiths. 873 00:47:37,306 --> 00:47:41,026 I was gonna say the Pah-wraiths in general is a body possession 874 00:47:41,056 --> 00:47:42,556 thing that comes back again and 875 00:47:42,843 --> 00:47:44,913 Rob: And yeah, pure evil type thing. 876 00:47:44,913 --> 00:47:48,963 So that's like right up there with this possession in this most recent 877 00:47:48,963 --> 00:47:52,113 episode, um, of just pure evil. 878 00:47:52,383 --> 00:47:54,573 You know, there to do bad and, you know, 879 00:47:55,261 --> 00:48:00,871 Kevin: I said earlier that this, this, uh, this puzzle box of Batel's um, 880 00:48:01,321 --> 00:48:07,321 Gorn, uh, infection or evolution, uh, is bringing out all sorts of theories. 881 00:48:07,351 --> 00:48:10,741 One that I have heard is that the, this is a, a Pah-wraith 882 00:48:11,131 --> 00:48:12,781 thing that is coming to be. 883 00:48:13,833 --> 00:48:14,373 Rob: Really. 884 00:48:14,716 --> 00:48:18,406 Kevin: Uh, I have also heard the theory that she is evolving 885 00:48:18,436 --> 00:48:23,866 into the big Gorn that we see in Arena in the original series. 886 00:48:24,136 --> 00:48:29,506 And the justification I've heard that to that one is that, uh, in, in, uh, 887 00:48:29,506 --> 00:48:35,086 Arena when Kirk meets the Gorn on the planet, um, he then does a log entry 888 00:48:35,086 --> 00:48:39,796 where he, he says that the aliens that are setting up this battle to the death, 889 00:48:40,606 --> 00:48:46,306 "They call it a Gorn." Which at the time made you think, oh, it's this new 890 00:48:46,306 --> 00:48:48,286 species that Kirk has never seen before. 891 00:48:48,286 --> 00:48:52,246 But we now know that Kirk is quite familiar with the Gorn as a threat. 892 00:48:52,516 --> 00:48:56,116 So what would make him to say They call it a Gorn, other than 893 00:48:56,116 --> 00:48:58,396 maybe this is an unusual Gorn? 894 00:48:58,546 --> 00:49:00,736 This is not an everyday Gorn. 895 00:49:01,066 --> 00:49:02,476 It looks a little different. 896 00:49:02,476 --> 00:49:09,076 It looks a little like an evolved human in what could almost be a, a, a dress. 897 00:49:10,143 --> 00:49:13,713 Rob: And yeah, it is a hybrid of human and so it's not 898 00:49:13,776 --> 00:49:14,646 Kevin: Exactly. 899 00:49:14,646 --> 00:49:19,236 So is, is that Gorn that Kirk battles to the death actually captain Batel? 900 00:49:19,506 --> 00:49:20,646 We shall see Rob 901 00:49:21,958 --> 00:49:23,583 Rob: I wait with bated breath. 902 00:49:24,336 --> 00:49:25,146 Kevin: with Batel'ed breath. 903 00:49:25,218 --> 00:49:25,938 Rob: Yes. 904 00:49:25,938 --> 00:49:29,598 So yes, I wanted to just mention, um, tears of the Prophets. 905 00:49:29,658 --> 00:49:31,308 Uh, a sad episode. 906 00:49:31,308 --> 00:49:33,168 We lose Jadzia Dax especially. 907 00:49:33,498 --> 00:49:36,738 You know, her and Worf were getting ready to try for a baby. 908 00:49:36,738 --> 00:49:40,698 And Bashir had figured out that, you know, her Trill body would be able 909 00:49:40,698 --> 00:49:42,498 to handle it with a certain way. 910 00:49:42,498 --> 00:49:47,868 And the l the sadness of, uh, Bashir and Quark at the, you know, they're finally 911 00:49:47,868 --> 00:49:53,528 losing there they're, uh, they, they, they're great White hope, which is Jadzia. 912 00:49:53,548 --> 00:49:54,178 Um, 913 00:49:54,511 --> 00:49:58,561 Kevin: Slightly higher stakes than our, uh, poor Dana Gamble 914 00:49:58,561 --> 00:50:00,691 this episode, but he did do a good 915 00:50:00,898 --> 00:50:03,118 Rob: He did do a great job. 916 00:50:03,328 --> 00:50:06,628 Um, so yes, that, I'd just like to name drop that one. 917 00:50:06,748 --> 00:50:10,018 There's, I'll come back to it another point we've gotta do one about sta space 918 00:50:10,018 --> 00:50:13,018 battles at some point, and the space battles in this are particularly great. 919 00:50:13,801 --> 00:50:14,101 Kevin: Awesome. 920 00:50:14,521 --> 00:50:15,811 Alright, well thank you Rob. 921 00:50:15,841 --> 00:50:19,081 Uh, we are off to our next adventure in subspace. 922 00:50:19,548 --> 00:50:21,078 Rob: We are heading there right now. 923 00:50:21,498 --> 00:50:22,908 Join us, won't you? 924 00:50:23,118 --> 00:50:26,448 With our next episode as we go deeper and deeper into those worlds 925 00:50:26,448 --> 00:50:29,958 that are indeed new and strange.