1 00:00:11,930 --> 00:00:15,626 Everyone, welcome to the cultivate podcast through the Grove church. I'm Charlie 2 00:00:15,658 --> 00:00:19,310 Lofton, the lead pastor there, and I'm here with my friend and partner, Mark 3 00:00:19,380 --> 00:00:22,698 Freeman. Hey, yo, what's up, dude? It's all good, man. I've 4 00:00:22,714 --> 00:00:26,518 enjoyed this series that we've been doing, doing last couple of episodes. I 5 00:00:26,524 --> 00:00:29,640 hope you have been enjoying it. We've been kind of 6 00:00:30,090 --> 00:00:33,846 answering, kind of wrestling through some questions about the 7 00:00:33,868 --> 00:00:37,634 authority. Where does authority come from? It's kind of where we started. Where does authority 8 00:00:37,682 --> 00:00:41,354 come from and where does truth come from? Ultimate comes 9 00:00:41,392 --> 00:00:44,778 from God revealed in Jesus, revealed through his word. 10 00:00:44,944 --> 00:00:48,506 And that is what we believe, that truth is found in 11 00:00:48,528 --> 00:00:52,366 God's word. And then we spent some time, last time just kind of building on 12 00:00:52,388 --> 00:00:55,774 that a little bit, just kind of talking about what the Bible says about itself, 13 00:00:55,972 --> 00:00:59,070 about does it claim to have this sort of authority. 14 00:01:01,730 --> 00:01:05,486 And really, I think we ended up spending some fairly impromptu time, it feels 15 00:01:05,518 --> 00:01:08,420 like to me just kind of talking about what is it like to even 16 00:01:09,030 --> 00:01:12,834 wrestle with that idea of me 17 00:01:12,872 --> 00:01:16,534 wanting to have authority versus really yielding authority to 18 00:01:16,572 --> 00:01:19,400 God through his word and 19 00:01:20,250 --> 00:01:24,054 ultimately kind of coming to the conclusion still that we really believe 20 00:01:24,172 --> 00:01:28,022 that God's word is 21 00:01:28,076 --> 00:01:31,754 true and that's where truth is. So we need to be really 22 00:01:31,792 --> 00:01:35,338 careful about how we interpret it because that is 23 00:01:35,424 --> 00:01:39,242 the Christian's ultimate source for truth about the world, about 24 00:01:39,296 --> 00:01:42,986 God, about ourselves. So I want to be faithful to 25 00:01:43,008 --> 00:01:46,638 submit to that authority, and I would be faithful to be a diligent student of 26 00:01:46,644 --> 00:01:50,414 the scriptures, not with an arrogance that says, I've got everything figured out 27 00:01:50,452 --> 00:01:53,806 always, but constantly learning to understand 28 00:01:53,988 --> 00:01:57,538 what God's word really says and what it means when it says it. 29 00:01:57,704 --> 00:02:01,506 And so we've been kind of back and forth and on that for a 30 00:02:01,608 --> 00:02:04,898 couple of episodes now. But I feel like we've got one 31 00:02:04,984 --> 00:02:08,370 more really big question left and probably 32 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,926 100 other small ones that would take three years worth of 33 00:02:11,948 --> 00:02:15,686 podcasts to answer. But I feel like we got one more big one. Yeah. 34 00:02:15,708 --> 00:02:19,482 Yeah, I think so, too. Because if you're going to say 35 00:02:19,536 --> 00:02:22,906 that the Bible has that kind of authority, which I kept thinking about this the 36 00:02:22,928 --> 00:02:26,746 last episode, man, I've always loved C. S. 37 00:02:26,768 --> 00:02:30,486 Lewis. His statement, don't, don't 38 00:02:30,518 --> 00:02:34,266 come at me with this. Jesus was just a good teacher 39 00:02:34,458 --> 00:02:38,286 because of the claims he made about himself. He didn't leave us 40 00:02:38,308 --> 00:02:41,774 that option. Right? He is either a crazy man, he's an 41 00:02:41,812 --> 00:02:45,566 absolute liar, or he is Lord. And I had 42 00:02:45,588 --> 00:02:48,994 never thought about that with what the Bible says about itself, 43 00:02:49,192 --> 00:02:52,978 but that it also doesn't leave us any room to just treat it like a 44 00:02:52,984 --> 00:02:56,726 normal book because of what it says about itself. We 45 00:02:56,748 --> 00:03:00,310 have to come to it and decide either it is authoritative or 46 00:03:00,460 --> 00:03:04,280 it's nothing. There's no in between. 47 00:03:04,650 --> 00:03:07,800 No, just, hey, this is just some good ideas, right? 48 00:03:08,590 --> 00:03:12,346 So anyway, I'd never thought about that, but it does. It begs the 49 00:03:12,368 --> 00:03:16,140 question. So we're saying a lot about this, 50 00:03:16,670 --> 00:03:20,506 and we're giving it a really high place in our 51 00:03:20,528 --> 00:03:24,190 life and our church and our decision making and what we do 52 00:03:24,260 --> 00:03:27,950 and the way we see things. So how did the Bible. 53 00:03:28,770 --> 00:03:32,574 I know it's a bunch of books. Everybody like, how do you know 54 00:03:32,612 --> 00:03:35,986 this? And we've decided. You said scripture, but there are a lot 55 00:03:36,008 --> 00:03:38,980 of ancient spiritual texts. Right? 56 00:03:39,670 --> 00:03:42,370 Why this group of books and this group of authors? 57 00:03:43,830 --> 00:03:45,960 Where did that come from? How does that all work? 58 00:03:47,530 --> 00:03:50,982 That is an amazing question. And that is definitely what I feel like the big 59 00:03:51,036 --> 00:03:54,530 question is, which is if we say that scripture 60 00:03:54,610 --> 00:03:58,422 is inspired by God, and this 61 00:03:58,476 --> 00:04:01,914 happens 2000 years ago in the case of Paul and 62 00:04:01,952 --> 00:04:05,722 earlier for the stuff in the Old Testament, and now here 63 00:04:05,776 --> 00:04:09,338 I am, thousands of years later in a completely 64 00:04:09,424 --> 00:04:13,162 different language, reading an english 65 00:04:13,226 --> 00:04:16,640 translation of the Bible. Can I trust 66 00:04:17,330 --> 00:04:21,070 that these are the words that God inspired? 67 00:04:21,730 --> 00:04:25,226 Because the word that we talked about in two, Timothy 68 00:04:25,258 --> 00:04:28,814 316, it says that all scripture is God breathed. It's 69 00:04:28,862 --> 00:04:32,206 sourced by him. And then we talked about that other verse that says that combining 70 00:04:32,238 --> 00:04:36,006 spiritual thoughts and spiritual words and that Paul's talking 71 00:04:36,028 --> 00:04:39,526 about. Even if I just wrote it down, you better make sure you 72 00:04:39,548 --> 00:04:43,240 believe that these words 73 00:04:43,850 --> 00:04:47,110 that were written down by a varying group of authors. 74 00:04:47,470 --> 00:04:51,260 If we believe that those words were sourced by God, 75 00:04:52,190 --> 00:04:54,780 what level of trust can I have 76 00:04:55,710 --> 00:04:57,660 that these words are those words? 77 00:05:00,030 --> 00:05:03,818 And because the doctrine of inspiration, this is 78 00:05:03,824 --> 00:05:07,326 kind of a theological deal. We're kind of talked about inspiring that when we say 79 00:05:07,428 --> 00:05:09,680 inspired by God, we don't mean 80 00:05:11,810 --> 00:05:15,646 I felt something and so I wanted to write it. Not inspired like he's 81 00:05:15,678 --> 00:05:19,422 a cheerleader, but a deeper inspiration as source 82 00:05:19,486 --> 00:05:22,786 and life. And so the pretty 83 00:05:22,968 --> 00:05:26,802 well used definition for what inspiration 84 00:05:26,866 --> 00:05:30,694 means is that essentially that the Bible, again, comes from 85 00:05:30,732 --> 00:05:34,150 God. And if it comes from God, it's completely 86 00:05:34,220 --> 00:05:37,922 trustworthy. We use words like inerrant or infallible, 87 00:05:37,986 --> 00:05:41,626 which can feel overwhelming. But if we can say that if the 88 00:05:41,648 --> 00:05:45,494 words come from God, God doesn't lie. God doesn't make mistakes. 89 00:05:45,542 --> 00:05:49,130 So the words that God said, he said them without 90 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,974 error. And so what 91 00:05:53,012 --> 00:05:56,654 he told the author to write, and again, the definition, obviously is 92 00:05:56,692 --> 00:06:00,462 superintend. He kind of superintended the author to make sure 93 00:06:00,516 --> 00:06:03,758 that what the author wrote would be without error 94 00:06:03,934 --> 00:06:07,042 coming from God. And so 95 00:06:07,096 --> 00:06:10,610 essentially, that idea, inspiration, really 96 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,290 only applies to the original manuscript 97 00:06:15,110 --> 00:06:18,774 that they wrote it on, because inspiration happened at the moment of 98 00:06:18,892 --> 00:06:22,646 authorship. He inspired the process by which 99 00:06:22,668 --> 00:06:26,486 the book was written. So Moses writes it out, Samuel writes it 100 00:06:26,508 --> 00:06:30,234 out. Isaiah writes it out, mark writes it out. Not 101 00:06:30,272 --> 00:06:32,970 you. Different Mark, Paul, 102 00:06:33,790 --> 00:06:37,382 John, Peter. When they wrote it out, they were inspired 103 00:06:37,446 --> 00:06:40,974 by God. That was a God breathed moment. And so it was 104 00:06:41,012 --> 00:06:43,230 true of the words they wrote. 105 00:06:44,530 --> 00:06:47,742 We don't have that. We have something very 106 00:06:47,796 --> 00:06:51,454 different. So the question is, can 107 00:06:51,492 --> 00:06:55,314 I trust what I have? And so, really, this is 108 00:06:55,352 --> 00:06:58,980 kind of how I have historically answered this question. 109 00:06:59,990 --> 00:07:03,458 In order for me to trust God's word, 110 00:07:03,624 --> 00:07:07,038 the Bible that I have, I guess we'll say it that way. I can 111 00:07:07,064 --> 00:07:10,806 100% trust God's word. Can I trust the Bible? I have to 112 00:07:10,828 --> 00:07:14,598 be God's word. There's two things that I have 113 00:07:14,604 --> 00:07:18,186 to believe. One, I have to believe in the doctrine of 114 00:07:18,208 --> 00:07:21,482 inspiration. I have to believe that the Bible is God 115 00:07:21,536 --> 00:07:24,502 breathed and that God is capable, 116 00:07:24,646 --> 00:07:28,262 capable, capable, desiring 117 00:07:28,326 --> 00:07:31,738 and did use a human 118 00:07:31,824 --> 00:07:34,400 person to create something error free. 119 00:07:35,250 --> 00:07:38,078 Humans make mistakes, and so if you're going to use the human author, it's going 120 00:07:38,084 --> 00:07:41,758 to have mistakes. Do I believe that God is capable of using 121 00:07:41,844 --> 00:07:45,534 a sinful, mistake filled person to do something error 122 00:07:45,582 --> 00:07:49,394 free? Can God work 123 00:07:49,432 --> 00:07:52,900 through somebody to write something like that? 124 00:07:53,430 --> 00:07:56,878 And I think the answer to that question is yes, of course he is 125 00:07:56,904 --> 00:08:00,694 capable of doing that. God is capable of working through somebody, that 126 00:08:00,732 --> 00:08:04,390 everything that they say for a given time period is 100% 127 00:08:04,460 --> 00:08:08,278 true. That's what prophets do. I 128 00:08:08,284 --> 00:08:11,130 think I can do it for one sentence. 129 00:08:12,270 --> 00:08:15,050 My birth name is Charles Emmett Lofton. 130 00:08:16,190 --> 00:08:19,674 Sure, I'm a sinful person, but I am capable for a short windows of time 131 00:08:19,712 --> 00:08:22,560 of saying man. I'm calling you Emmett from now on. 132 00:08:24,450 --> 00:08:28,282 I think I prefer Charles. If you're going to go that direction. 133 00:08:28,426 --> 00:08:31,726 I've used Chuck a lot. You can call me C. Emmett Lofton. That's my 134 00:08:31,748 --> 00:08:35,582 lawyer. Uh, where were we? 135 00:08:35,636 --> 00:08:39,262 Oh, yes, sorry. And so if God gets involved, then I'm capable 136 00:08:39,326 --> 00:08:43,106 for a particular period of time, for speaking truth even longer, as long as 137 00:08:43,128 --> 00:08:46,918 God wants to. And so that's the doctrine of inspiration. Do I believe 138 00:08:47,004 --> 00:08:50,646 that God is capable of doing that, and do I believe that 139 00:08:50,668 --> 00:08:54,120 God did that? That's faith. Step one, 140 00:08:55,370 --> 00:08:58,842 faith. Step two is, do I believe 141 00:08:58,976 --> 00:09:00,380 that same God 142 00:09:02,430 --> 00:09:04,380 can and did 143 00:09:05,230 --> 00:09:08,922 superintend oversee the process by which it went 144 00:09:08,976 --> 00:09:11,120 from? Paul wrote it 145 00:09:13,490 --> 00:09:16,960 on a piece of papyrus, sent it to 146 00:09:18,450 --> 00:09:21,758 Galatia, and 147 00:09:21,924 --> 00:09:25,682 2000 years later, what 148 00:09:25,736 --> 00:09:29,506 I have communicates the same thing. 149 00:09:29,608 --> 00:09:33,426 Do I trust that God oversaw that process? So there 150 00:09:33,448 --> 00:09:37,190 really are two significant moments of faith, 151 00:09:38,250 --> 00:09:41,542 and so you can go in and 152 00:09:41,596 --> 00:09:44,760 analyze the process, which I'm more than happy to do. 153 00:09:45,770 --> 00:09:49,514 I've given day long seminars on this topic. I can talk 154 00:09:49,552 --> 00:09:53,290 about this for anywhere from two to 400 155 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,726 minutes, depending on what the situation calls 156 00:09:56,758 --> 00:10:00,526 for. Do you have 400 minutes? 400 minutes. That was a 157 00:10:00,548 --> 00:10:04,238 weirdly specific number. It really was, and I'm trying. It's not divisible by 60, 158 00:10:04,324 --> 00:10:07,678 it's not hours. I did it on purpose because I'm an 159 00:10:07,684 --> 00:10:08,430 idiot. 160 00:10:12,690 --> 00:10:16,322 But really, no matter what I say, whatever 161 00:10:16,376 --> 00:10:19,780 we say about the authorship, and whatever we say about how 162 00:10:20,150 --> 00:10:23,842 the particular books got selected, whatever we say about 163 00:10:23,896 --> 00:10:27,542 the process by which the books were copied, whatever it is we say 164 00:10:27,596 --> 00:10:30,070 about the way the Bible has been translated, 165 00:10:32,250 --> 00:10:35,894 you can always give back the answer. But if humans are 166 00:10:35,932 --> 00:10:39,702 involved, there is the potential and capacity for 167 00:10:39,756 --> 00:10:43,322 sin and error. That is absolutely, 100% 168 00:10:43,376 --> 00:10:46,714 true. There's nothing I can say to convince you that I can show 169 00:10:46,752 --> 00:10:50,462 you without, beyond a shadow of a doubt that the element of human 170 00:10:50,516 --> 00:10:53,840 error has been eliminated because 171 00:10:54,610 --> 00:10:57,914 there has been some human error that has gotten 172 00:10:57,962 --> 00:11:01,806 involved. I wouldn't say that. And even if I 173 00:11:01,828 --> 00:11:05,326 could, I can't prove 174 00:11:05,358 --> 00:11:08,626 it. And so ultimately, before we even get into 175 00:11:08,728 --> 00:11:11,250 the details, 176 00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:17,830 really, both of these things come from a trust 177 00:11:17,900 --> 00:11:21,686 and faith in God. Do I believe God inspired them? And 178 00:11:21,708 --> 00:11:25,526 do I believe that same God that inspired them would protect the word that he 179 00:11:25,548 --> 00:11:28,280 inspired? Does that make sense? 180 00:11:29,370 --> 00:11:33,034 Yeah, I love it because it's just the 181 00:11:33,072 --> 00:11:36,858 reality of faith is one of those things that we want to 182 00:11:36,864 --> 00:11:40,634 get to a place where it doesn't require it. Right? But God has not given 183 00:11:40,672 --> 00:11:44,478 us that. At some point, you're going to hit a place where 184 00:11:44,484 --> 00:11:47,946 you're going to have to go, all right, I trust something I can't 185 00:11:47,978 --> 00:11:50,960 see. Does God want me 186 00:11:51,650 --> 00:11:54,850 to have a trustworthy 187 00:11:55,990 --> 00:11:59,650 translation of his word? Is that what God 188 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,506 wants? And was he willing to do 189 00:12:03,528 --> 00:12:07,358 what had happened, to do what was necessary to make that 190 00:12:07,384 --> 00:12:11,106 happen? It's not just simply 191 00:12:11,138 --> 00:12:14,806 an act. It really, at its core, is a thing of faith. And so then 192 00:12:14,828 --> 00:12:18,170 I go to all these things that I learn, and I'm 193 00:12:18,830 --> 00:12:22,442 blinded, but I'm informed by that 194 00:12:22,576 --> 00:12:25,962 when I read all these things about all the processes that 195 00:12:26,016 --> 00:12:29,706 happen to make this happen, I look at it 196 00:12:29,728 --> 00:12:33,118 through a lens of this seems like what a 197 00:12:33,124 --> 00:12:36,974 trustworthy God would do. So we can take these in any 198 00:12:37,012 --> 00:12:39,280 order I'll let you pick. 199 00:12:40,850 --> 00:12:44,266 When you think about this process, which is the one that kind of hits 200 00:12:44,298 --> 00:12:47,998 you, is it how the books got picked, how they got copied? 201 00:12:48,174 --> 00:12:51,618 Translation, which is the one that's kind of like. That's the one that I kind 202 00:12:51,624 --> 00:12:55,346 of wonder about how they got picked, probably. Yeah. Because 203 00:12:55,368 --> 00:12:58,982 it seems like. And some were picked and some weren't picked. Right. 204 00:12:59,116 --> 00:13:02,934 There were people making those decisions, and it seems like 205 00:13:02,972 --> 00:13:06,454 that's where error could have entered the easiest. Right? 206 00:13:06,572 --> 00:13:09,658 Maybe. So let's think about it 207 00:13:09,824 --> 00:13:13,306 logistically and historically. While the 208 00:13:13,328 --> 00:13:17,142 apostles are alive, all the way up until, I think, John died, 209 00:13:17,206 --> 00:13:20,300 probably around the year 90 AD, 210 00:13:20,670 --> 00:13:24,414 and revelation being the last book that was written, all the way up until 211 00:13:24,452 --> 00:13:28,222 the point that the apostles were alive, scripture was still 212 00:13:28,276 --> 00:13:32,106 being written. And so there was no point, while the apostles 213 00:13:32,138 --> 00:13:35,700 were still alive, that there was a point in which, okay, 214 00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:38,420 we're done, now we're done. 215 00:13:43,670 --> 00:13:47,366 There's no means by which one could say, okay, this is all the 216 00:13:47,388 --> 00:13:51,026 things post Jesus that are Bible 217 00:13:51,138 --> 00:13:54,966 scripture. And so then you write a letter and you send it 218 00:13:54,988 --> 00:13:57,800 to know. 219 00:13:59,150 --> 00:14:02,874 The people in Ephesus and Thessalonica have no idea, but 220 00:14:02,912 --> 00:14:06,490 apparently what's happening is these letters are being copied, 221 00:14:06,910 --> 00:14:10,426 really because of Paul's instruction to do so, you 222 00:14:10,448 --> 00:14:14,122 should copy these and send them on. And so these letters 223 00:14:14,186 --> 00:14:17,966 are being copied and sent to other towns. In other 224 00:14:17,988 --> 00:14:21,166 towns. So Ephesus is getting to read what he said to 225 00:14:21,188 --> 00:14:24,926 Colossi and vice versa, and all these letters are being circulated 226 00:14:25,038 --> 00:14:28,100 amongst each other. And then as 227 00:14:28,950 --> 00:14:32,286 the gospel is expanding beyond just these initial 228 00:14:32,398 --> 00:14:36,082 cities where Paul was preaching, beyond Israel, 229 00:14:36,146 --> 00:14:39,814 into kind of the roman cities kind of 230 00:14:39,852 --> 00:14:42,550 surrounding it, and just kind of expands beyond, 231 00:14:43,370 --> 00:14:47,190 these letters are just being distributed widely. 232 00:14:48,090 --> 00:14:51,754 And so in addition to that, some other versions of the story 233 00:14:51,792 --> 00:14:55,034 of Jesus, or gospels, as we call them, are also going out there. And people 234 00:14:55,072 --> 00:14:58,762 who aren't apostles, like people like Timothy, right, 235 00:14:58,816 --> 00:15:02,658 people who were Peter's disciples, John's disciples, they're 236 00:15:02,694 --> 00:15:06,334 also writing letters to other churches and to each other, and 237 00:15:06,372 --> 00:15:09,774 all they're spreading around. And so there are all these letters and 238 00:15:09,812 --> 00:15:13,460 gospels, some of which we know about, some of which 239 00:15:14,070 --> 00:15:17,586 they're known, but a lot know, most people don't know 240 00:15:17,608 --> 00:15:20,850 about. They're being circulated widely, 241 00:15:21,270 --> 00:15:25,034 and there's no denominations. And regardless 242 00:15:25,102 --> 00:15:28,774 of what the Catholic Church wants us to believe, there really was 243 00:15:28,812 --> 00:15:32,418 not a uniform worldwide 244 00:15:32,594 --> 00:15:35,880 authority structure by which 245 00:15:37,130 --> 00:15:40,886 it was very clear who's in charge. And this is 246 00:15:40,908 --> 00:15:44,202 exactly what we would believe. What would happen would be, from time to time, 247 00:15:44,336 --> 00:15:47,970 situations would come up, they would start challenging whether or not 248 00:15:47,980 --> 00:15:51,594 Jesus. People would start challenging whether or not Jesus was fully God, which was really 249 00:15:51,632 --> 00:15:55,182 never the debate. The biggest debate the church has ever really 250 00:15:55,236 --> 00:15:58,494 had, were mostly around, was Jesus actually a real 251 00:15:58,532 --> 00:16:02,334 person, or was he just God pretending to be? Now, 252 00:16:02,372 --> 00:16:05,986 there was one, a controversy called the aryan controversy, not to be 253 00:16:06,008 --> 00:16:09,662 confused with A-R-Y-A-N Hitler, 254 00:16:09,806 --> 00:16:13,486 A-R-I-N Aryan, a guy named 255 00:16:13,518 --> 00:16:17,294 Arius, kind of more of a predecessor to modern day Jehovah's Witnesses, 256 00:16:17,342 --> 00:16:20,360 who did believe that Jesus was just a human. 257 00:16:21,050 --> 00:16:24,854 And so there would be all of these controversies. And when these 258 00:16:24,892 --> 00:16:28,566 controversies would arise, kind of the leaders in all of these different cities would come 259 00:16:28,588 --> 00:16:32,122 together, and they would have a council. They started to have 260 00:16:32,256 --> 00:16:35,866 these leaders in these cities would gain the title of bishop. And then 261 00:16:35,888 --> 00:16:39,290 eventually, the structure by which the Catholic Church 262 00:16:40,110 --> 00:16:43,326 happened, where there was kind of a bishop of bishops, the bishop of Rome kind 263 00:16:43,348 --> 00:16:46,878 of existed as the bishop of bishops. All of this starts to happen. 264 00:16:47,044 --> 00:16:50,190 And so most of these things were governed 265 00:16:50,610 --> 00:16:54,082 city by city until there kind of became a 266 00:16:54,136 --> 00:16:57,954 growing need to bring an 267 00:16:57,992 --> 00:17:01,618 answer to these things. And so whether or 268 00:17:01,624 --> 00:17:05,154 not which of these letters and gospels and books are the 269 00:17:05,192 --> 00:17:09,022 authoritative ones or not really just wasn't a question 270 00:17:09,096 --> 00:17:12,806 that they necessarily felt like answering. It wasn't like there was this 271 00:17:12,828 --> 00:17:16,518 point at which we've got to figure this out. And really, to be able 272 00:17:16,524 --> 00:17:19,946 to answer that question thoroughly is going to require a 273 00:17:19,968 --> 00:17:23,594 significant amount of time to happen for these things to 274 00:17:23,792 --> 00:17:27,514 fully circulate amongst the world. And so 275 00:17:27,552 --> 00:17:30,410 what happened was that there was a controversy 276 00:17:31,950 --> 00:17:35,786 where a heresy develops. A guy named 277 00:17:35,818 --> 00:17:39,598 Pelagius, he develops this heresy. Pelagius? Yeah, I 278 00:17:39,604 --> 00:17:43,354 know. He's the worst. Not plagiarist. He wasn't 279 00:17:43,402 --> 00:17:46,690 stealing other people's work. Pelagius, anyways. 280 00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:50,558 And he put together what he considered to be a canon, 281 00:17:50,654 --> 00:17:54,418 which was a. I think it was like excerpts from the 282 00:17:54,424 --> 00:17:58,246 Gospel of Mark and some of Paul's letters, and 283 00:17:58,348 --> 00:18:02,134 through a select view of these things, was able to 284 00:18:02,172 --> 00:18:05,270 develop a fairly works centered 285 00:18:05,850 --> 00:18:07,510 approach to Christianity. 286 00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:13,418 And so this was needed to be put down. So 287 00:18:13,504 --> 00:18:17,274 he is spreading out there. This is what we call. This is the New 288 00:18:17,312 --> 00:18:21,158 Testament. And then like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, 289 00:18:21,174 --> 00:18:24,320 whoa. So then the bishops and the leaders are like, 290 00:18:25,090 --> 00:18:28,014 we need to put a stop to this. And so there were two 291 00:18:28,052 --> 00:18:31,726 councils, one around 393, called 292 00:18:31,828 --> 00:18:35,558 the Council of Hippo, which is the name of a town, 293 00:18:35,674 --> 00:18:39,506 not a large water mammal. But did 294 00:18:39,528 --> 00:18:42,578 their high school mascot, was it a hippo, though? It would had to have been. 295 00:18:42,664 --> 00:18:46,426 That would be awesome. Maybe just call yourself. Have we missed that? The hippopotamuses. 296 00:18:46,478 --> 00:18:50,214 Do you know any towns? The high schools? That sounds 297 00:18:50,252 --> 00:18:53,080 like a great topic for. When we start a school. 298 00:18:54,810 --> 00:18:58,026 First we have to rename the town. We have to rename the 299 00:18:58,048 --> 00:19:01,180 town Hippo. Wow. 300 00:19:02,270 --> 00:19:05,994 It was around 393 AD, and then the council of Carthage four 301 00:19:06,032 --> 00:19:09,754 years later, 397. And so what they did 302 00:19:09,792 --> 00:19:13,166 was this was. And again, it was built out of a 303 00:19:13,188 --> 00:19:16,430 concern, and the question 304 00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:19,758 was, what are the 305 00:19:19,764 --> 00:19:22,560 authoritative texts? And 306 00:19:24,290 --> 00:19:27,650 their decision making process really came down to three different ideas. 307 00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:32,114 Does it have apostolic authority? Did an 308 00:19:32,152 --> 00:19:35,846 apostle write it, or did someone under the immediate care of 309 00:19:35,868 --> 00:19:39,000 an apostle write it? Not a disciple of 310 00:19:39,450 --> 00:19:43,254 Paul after Paul was dead, but a 311 00:19:43,292 --> 00:19:47,078 companion of Paul. So Paul was kind of with Luke when 312 00:19:47,084 --> 00:19:50,570 he wrote the gospel. Mark was with Peter 313 00:19:51,230 --> 00:19:54,746 when Mark wrote his gospel. Or did an 314 00:19:54,768 --> 00:19:58,518 apostle write it like Matthew, like John, like Paul, like Peter? 315 00:19:58,694 --> 00:20:02,526 And so does it have apostolic authority? Is 316 00:20:02,548 --> 00:20:06,286 it theologically consistent with each other and with the Old 317 00:20:06,308 --> 00:20:09,502 Testament? And does it have 318 00:20:09,636 --> 00:20:12,430 universal appeal and acceptance? 319 00:20:13,410 --> 00:20:17,186 And so the third one, I'll explain this way pretty easily. You can imagine a 320 00:20:17,208 --> 00:20:20,866 book that Paul would write to Galatia where he's like, 321 00:20:20,968 --> 00:20:24,226 tell Fred to cut it out. He's an idiot. He needs to 322 00:20:24,248 --> 00:20:27,702 stop. Jim, sorry for whatever 323 00:20:27,756 --> 00:20:31,510 Fred's doing. Please hang in there. Love, Paul. 324 00:20:31,850 --> 00:20:35,298 I mean, that's really a powerful letter that Fred 325 00:20:35,474 --> 00:20:39,094 really needs to listen to. But it is not universal in its 326 00:20:39,132 --> 00:20:42,826 nature. Right. And then there are going to be some 327 00:20:42,848 --> 00:20:46,138 book letters that were probably written, or gospels that were probably written that the 328 00:20:46,144 --> 00:20:49,914 president, this is good, not great, and probably didn't feel 329 00:20:49,952 --> 00:20:52,446 compelled to copy, or they did. It was just kind of like, hey, this is 330 00:20:52,468 --> 00:20:56,126 kind of interesting. You should probably read this. But if 331 00:20:56,148 --> 00:20:59,854 it's God breathed, you would expect it to have a 332 00:20:59,892 --> 00:21:03,598 certain intangible quality to it 333 00:21:03,764 --> 00:21:06,980 and also a universal nature to it. 334 00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:10,546 Probably the one that is probably most on the fence when it comes to that 335 00:21:10,568 --> 00:21:14,226 is Philemon, which seems to be addressing a very specific issue 336 00:21:14,328 --> 00:21:17,320 with a very specific guy. But the principles in there 337 00:21:18,010 --> 00:21:21,686 about freedom and kindness and treating one another with respect and 338 00:21:21,708 --> 00:21:25,350 dignity are still universal enough. They include it. 339 00:21:25,420 --> 00:21:28,454 Second Timothy is a little bit like that. Right. There's just some of these things, 340 00:21:28,492 --> 00:21:32,298 like maybe galatians even, right? There's some of these that 341 00:21:32,304 --> 00:21:36,074 are kind of like, this is definitely addressing a very specific situation, 342 00:21:36,272 --> 00:21:39,738 but even still, there's a universal appeal to it. There's a 343 00:21:39,744 --> 00:21:43,406 universal quality to it. So there's an apostle involved. The 344 00:21:43,428 --> 00:21:45,920 theology is consistent, and 345 00:21:48,130 --> 00:21:51,918 there's a universal nature to it. So they're debating all these things, and it 346 00:21:51,924 --> 00:21:55,726 was a debate. There were some things that were involved. I mean, James seems a 347 00:21:55,748 --> 00:21:59,026 little different than some of the other ones. It got debated a lot. Revelation is 348 00:21:59,048 --> 00:22:02,322 just weird. It got know there are some ones 349 00:22:02,376 --> 00:22:05,874 that there was some conversation about it. And 350 00:22:05,912 --> 00:22:09,634 ultimately both of those councils came to the 351 00:22:09,672 --> 00:22:13,366 list of what we would call the New Testament. And it really wasn't until the 352 00:22:13,388 --> 00:22:16,534 second one, the council of Carthage, and they had a follow up a few years 353 00:22:16,572 --> 00:22:20,120 later, that it really just kind of felt like for the first time, 354 00:22:20,910 --> 00:22:24,282 the universal church at the time, the catholic church at the time, 355 00:22:24,336 --> 00:22:26,810 said, these are the books. 356 00:22:27,790 --> 00:22:30,780 And if you want to say 357 00:22:32,350 --> 00:22:36,046 it was about politics and mean between the 358 00:22:36,068 --> 00:22:39,598 established church and these cults and heresies that were 359 00:22:39,684 --> 00:22:43,106 sprouting out. So that's either a good thing or a bad thing. I can't say 360 00:22:43,128 --> 00:22:46,546 no. It had nothing to do with power and 361 00:22:46,568 --> 00:22:50,350 politics. Of course it did, because I don't want cult leaders 362 00:22:50,430 --> 00:22:52,420 and heretics to have power. 363 00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:58,998 And so now we have to trust some people that probably 364 00:22:59,084 --> 00:23:02,070 did rightly have mixed motives, 365 00:23:02,650 --> 00:23:06,054 and we also have to trust a God that superintends it. But to 366 00:23:06,092 --> 00:23:09,722 me, we've got people who are genuinely, both 367 00:23:09,776 --> 00:23:13,514 culturally and time wise, significantly closer to 368 00:23:13,552 --> 00:23:15,180 the timeline than we are, 369 00:23:17,950 --> 00:23:21,782 regardless of mixed motives. Wouldn't their primary 370 00:23:21,846 --> 00:23:25,530 motive be when you're a person and you say that you're a bishop 371 00:23:25,610 --> 00:23:29,374 and you got a whole bunch of them, and our primary mission here 372 00:23:29,412 --> 00:23:31,840 is to figure out which one of these 373 00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:37,186 books are sourced by God. And if 374 00:23:37,208 --> 00:23:40,546 we say it, then what we're saying to the world with confidence is, 375 00:23:40,728 --> 00:23:44,274 this is from God. I don't know these 376 00:23:44,312 --> 00:23:48,038 guys. Two people I 377 00:23:48,044 --> 00:23:51,606 might be worried about three people, maybe, but this number, that level of 378 00:23:51,628 --> 00:23:54,760 accountability. I don't know how you feel when you teach. 379 00:23:55,930 --> 00:23:59,658 I get nervous every time because people are. When I 380 00:23:59,664 --> 00:24:03,242 get up there and talk, they're thinking, this dude's about to tell me what God 381 00:24:03,296 --> 00:24:06,566 thinks. That's 382 00:24:06,598 --> 00:24:10,382 scary. I can only imagine even 383 00:24:10,436 --> 00:24:14,094 again, even if these guys have mixed motives in, there has to 384 00:24:14,132 --> 00:24:17,470 have been a significant fear 385 00:24:17,890 --> 00:24:21,280 of what would happen if people who say they represent God 386 00:24:22,210 --> 00:24:25,426 claim something is from God, but they really don't believe it, but they do it 387 00:24:25,448 --> 00:24:29,266 because they think it gives them some power. I'm just not in on 388 00:24:29,288 --> 00:24:31,460 that. Does that make sense? 389 00:24:33,670 --> 00:24:37,326 And so then there really has not been any real challenge 390 00:24:37,358 --> 00:24:41,158 to that in the over 1600 years. Since then, 391 00:24:41,324 --> 00:24:45,046 there's some famous things like that. Martin Luther said that he didn't particularly care for 392 00:24:45,068 --> 00:24:48,706 the book of James, he's probably not the first 393 00:24:48,748 --> 00:24:52,060 person to say that, and he's certainly not the last person to say that. 394 00:24:53,470 --> 00:24:57,226 People have wondered about revelation. They wondered about it 395 00:24:57,248 --> 00:25:01,046 then, people still wonder about it now. Right. It's 396 00:25:01,078 --> 00:25:04,634 saying it's very normal and natural to feel like one or two books may stick 397 00:25:04,682 --> 00:25:08,362 out from the rest. But there's never really been any significant 398 00:25:08,426 --> 00:25:11,966 challenge to that as the collective works. And so there's some 399 00:25:11,988 --> 00:25:15,426 books that refer to as the apocrypha, which is different than the books that 400 00:25:15,448 --> 00:25:19,234 are in between. In the Old New Testament, there's some other 401 00:25:19,272 --> 00:25:19,970 books 402 00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:27,254 that didn't make it in, but most 403 00:25:27,292 --> 00:25:31,014 of them were just second generation books. They're not 404 00:25:31,052 --> 00:25:34,786 bad books, necessarily. They're just second gen. Right. And it's 405 00:25:34,818 --> 00:25:38,446 like, we're not going to include those. Doesn't make those books 406 00:25:38,498 --> 00:25:41,260 bad anymore. And it is bad if you quote a 407 00:25:42,270 --> 00:25:45,926 Wayne Grudom theology book to somebody or an Andy 408 00:25:45,958 --> 00:25:49,686 Stanley leadership book, doesn't make them bad. They don't 409 00:25:49,718 --> 00:25:53,034 feel like they have that same level of authority and 410 00:25:53,072 --> 00:25:56,734 quality. Any follow up questions? Any of that? I know that was 411 00:25:56,772 --> 00:26:00,160 very speechy. No, but it was very helpful. Yeah. 412 00:26:02,210 --> 00:26:05,394 And so then in addition to that, then there's a process by which these things 413 00:26:05,432 --> 00:26:06,610 are getting copied. 414 00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:12,382 And again, there is an overwhelming 415 00:26:12,446 --> 00:26:15,858 amount of texts, 416 00:26:15,954 --> 00:26:19,766 like old manuscripts, old greek manuscripts of 417 00:26:19,788 --> 00:26:23,506 New Testament letters. An overwhelming number. Overwhelming 418 00:26:23,698 --> 00:26:27,334 even people who are not inclined to 419 00:26:27,372 --> 00:26:30,714 believe the Bible as being inspired by God would say 420 00:26:30,912 --> 00:26:34,666 there is probably more textual evidence. We 421 00:26:34,688 --> 00:26:38,522 probably have a higher level of confidence in 422 00:26:38,576 --> 00:26:42,266 that the texts have been copied authentically, and we have 423 00:26:42,288 --> 00:26:45,854 enough of them to know. Okay, well, this one is a little bit different than 424 00:26:45,892 --> 00:26:49,566 this, but we got so many of them to compare. We got 20 that say 425 00:26:49,588 --> 00:26:53,358 this and one that says this. This is clearly what was meant. This is 426 00:26:53,364 --> 00:26:57,042 just a mistake somebody made. They just skipped over 427 00:26:57,096 --> 00:27:00,626 a word, or they added a word, or a word got 428 00:27:00,648 --> 00:27:04,386 misspelled here. There's so many different copies that there 429 00:27:04,408 --> 00:27:08,126 is just an overwhelmingly high level of confidence 430 00:27:08,318 --> 00:27:12,166 that the manuscripts themselves are the same. And there's some great examples of 431 00:27:12,188 --> 00:27:15,862 this. You ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls? So there was a time when 432 00:27:15,916 --> 00:27:19,626 the earliest copy of the book of Isaiah that 433 00:27:19,648 --> 00:27:23,430 we had was a few hundred years after Jesus 434 00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:27,306 died. And so then there's certain parts of Isaiah that were 435 00:27:27,328 --> 00:27:30,890 just, like, talking 436 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,698 about that, talk about Jesus. It seemed like 437 00:27:34,704 --> 00:27:37,139 he's talking about him very specific. He's going to be like this. He's going to 438 00:27:37,139 --> 00:27:40,238 be like this. This is going to happen. This is going to happen. And it 439 00:27:40,244 --> 00:27:43,546 was a very common belief all the way up until the moment of the Dead 440 00:27:43,578 --> 00:27:46,030 Sea Scrolls, which is getting in the 19 hundreds. 441 00:27:48,050 --> 00:27:51,826 That somebody had written. They wrote that in, they 442 00:27:51,848 --> 00:27:55,354 wrote that in post Jesus. But then in the discovery 443 00:27:55,422 --> 00:27:57,670 of these Dead Sea Scrolls, 444 00:27:58,970 --> 00:28:02,726 a copy of Isaiah that predates Jesus was found, and it was 445 00:28:02,748 --> 00:28:06,566 found to be almost identical to the book of Isaiah that 446 00:28:06,588 --> 00:28:10,410 we had, and very much had 447 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,220 those Jesus centered passages, word for word, the same. 448 00:28:15,390 --> 00:28:19,114 And there are just a lot of stories like that. You would think at 449 00:28:19,152 --> 00:28:22,846 some point there would be some copy somewhere that would emerge of something that would 450 00:28:22,868 --> 00:28:26,334 make you think, we missed this. You can tell this whole 451 00:28:26,372 --> 00:28:30,030 thing, this is all bad, but there's just a high 452 00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:33,790 level of confidence and there are a couple of stories, 453 00:28:34,370 --> 00:28:37,582 a couple of things that are in your New Testament 454 00:28:37,646 --> 00:28:41,454 that people still have some question marks about the story of the woman 455 00:28:41,502 --> 00:28:45,090 caught in adultery without sin. Cast the first stone, 456 00:28:45,670 --> 00:28:48,270 the great commission at the end of Mark where it says, hey, you're going to 457 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,720 see different. Drink poison and have snakes. People like 458 00:28:53,210 --> 00:28:57,046 question whether or not that was a late ad and not part of the 459 00:28:57,068 --> 00:29:00,714 original. But if you take all of those out, 460 00:29:00,832 --> 00:29:04,634 if you take out, hey, he who was out sin, cast the first 461 00:29:04,672 --> 00:29:07,930 stone, take it out, it doesn't exist. 462 00:29:09,070 --> 00:29:12,622 Do we know less about the character of Jesus? That's just 463 00:29:12,676 --> 00:29:16,266 another story of a pretty consistent character 464 00:29:16,298 --> 00:29:19,806 trait of Jesus. And you take the great 465 00:29:19,828 --> 00:29:23,534 commission out of Mark, it's still in Matthew, still 466 00:29:23,572 --> 00:29:27,294 in Luke, still in acts, which it's still 467 00:29:27,332 --> 00:29:31,026 there. It's still, oh, but the thing 468 00:29:31,048 --> 00:29:34,286 about the snakes, the thing about the snakes is widely 469 00:29:34,318 --> 00:29:37,938 misunderstood. It doesn't say that everyone is going to get bit by a snake. It 470 00:29:37,944 --> 00:29:41,094 says, one of the signs of the power of the gospel will be some people 471 00:29:41,132 --> 00:29:44,360 will get bit by snakes and won't die. Which in fact happened, 472 00:29:45,130 --> 00:29:48,934 like 15 years. Later to Paul in Molten, it was recognized, right? 473 00:29:48,972 --> 00:29:51,790 I mean, it did happen. Doesn't mean it's going to happen to you today. Doesn't 474 00:29:51,810 --> 00:29:55,018 mean you should have snakes in your service, doesn't mean you should drink poison in 475 00:29:55,024 --> 00:29:58,794 your service. Just because it's been misinterpreted doesn't mean it's. But 476 00:29:58,832 --> 00:30:02,526 anyway, you get rid of that, there 477 00:30:02,548 --> 00:30:05,550 isn't anything lost. 478 00:30:06,290 --> 00:30:10,014 And so I believe that, again, even the people 479 00:30:10,052 --> 00:30:13,794 who are the most critical of God's word have a high level 480 00:30:13,832 --> 00:30:17,620 of confidence in it. Again, they would say, hey, 481 00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:22,050 if it's God, we should have 100% 482 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,446 level of confidence. 99.9 isn't good 483 00:30:25,468 --> 00:30:28,278 enough. Well, let's just say, let's imagine a 484 00:30:28,284 --> 00:30:31,542 hypothetical where every copy, every 485 00:30:31,596 --> 00:30:35,030 manuscript of every New Testament book we ever saw 486 00:30:35,180 --> 00:30:38,874 were exactly the same. You know what people would 487 00:30:38,912 --> 00:30:42,758 say then? Conspiracy theory. 488 00:30:42,934 --> 00:30:46,586 Too perfect. It's fake. It's as fake because it's not 489 00:30:46,608 --> 00:30:50,398 possible for this to be true. So in 490 00:30:50,404 --> 00:30:54,174 the realm of realistic, you would expect, if 491 00:30:54,212 --> 00:30:57,790 God is superintending the process, you would expect a 492 00:30:57,860 --> 00:31:01,166 super high level, 99.99% of 493 00:31:01,188 --> 00:31:04,874 accuracy, and you would expect there to be a widespread 494 00:31:04,922 --> 00:31:08,706 number of manuscripts that were preserved. That's what you would expect, and that is what 495 00:31:08,728 --> 00:31:12,226 you have. And the last thing that I think that is 496 00:31:12,248 --> 00:31:15,780 incredibly important. I know this is more speechy than normally we do this. 497 00:31:17,270 --> 00:31:20,966 Some people say, I can't trust my english translation because it's a little bit 498 00:31:20,988 --> 00:31:24,642 like the game of telephone. It was written in Greek, 499 00:31:24,786 --> 00:31:28,226 and then it was translated into Latin, and then it was translated into 500 00:31:28,268 --> 00:31:32,106 German, and then it was translated into English. Well, all 501 00:31:32,128 --> 00:31:35,866 of those things are true, except they're not in a dotted line. It 502 00:31:35,888 --> 00:31:39,722 was translated from Greek to Latin, and it was 503 00:31:39,776 --> 00:31:43,514 translated from Greek to German, but it was not translated 504 00:31:43,562 --> 00:31:47,294 from Latin to German. It was translated from Greek into German. And 505 00:31:47,332 --> 00:31:50,974 all of the english translations we have, every one of them were 506 00:31:51,012 --> 00:31:53,806 translated directly from the greek and hebrew 507 00:31:53,838 --> 00:31:56,980 manuscripts that they had at the time. 508 00:31:58,150 --> 00:32:01,946 Every one of them. There is some debate about whether or not 509 00:32:01,988 --> 00:32:05,518 maybe one book in the King James 510 00:32:05,614 --> 00:32:09,106 was translated from the Latin. There's a latin 511 00:32:09,218 --> 00:32:12,918 version out there called the septuagint, which we're just kind of nerding here for a 512 00:32:12,924 --> 00:32:16,680 little bit that whether or not that was used for some of 513 00:32:17,870 --> 00:32:20,780 the King James. But 514 00:32:23,070 --> 00:32:26,838 these are all direct translations, and they're 515 00:32:26,854 --> 00:32:30,426 all going to be very different from each other because they have different approaches. Some 516 00:32:30,448 --> 00:32:33,902 are going to be highly more literal. Some are going to intentionally use higher 517 00:32:33,956 --> 00:32:37,166 church language. Some of them are going to just be more casual in the way 518 00:32:37,188 --> 00:32:41,034 that they're written. But everybody who undertakes 519 00:32:41,082 --> 00:32:44,420 this, undertakes it with, I want to be faithful to this. 520 00:32:44,950 --> 00:32:48,590 Well, you're saying that nowhere, ever and anytime 521 00:32:48,670 --> 00:32:52,286 anybody's ever inserted their own political ideology 522 00:32:52,398 --> 00:32:55,640 into a translation. I would never say that. 523 00:32:56,410 --> 00:32:59,590 But in the same way that we have a voluminous number 524 00:32:59,660 --> 00:33:00,280 of 525 00:33:02,170 --> 00:33:05,766 manuscripts, we also have 526 00:33:05,948 --> 00:33:09,798 a wide variety of scholarship and scholars 527 00:33:09,894 --> 00:33:13,274 and translations to which one person having an 528 00:33:13,312 --> 00:33:16,394 agenda wouldn't last very long. Right. So 529 00:33:16,432 --> 00:33:20,270 overwhelming. Right. Because there are way too many people looking at it being like, 530 00:33:20,340 --> 00:33:23,680 that's not how that word is translated. And 531 00:33:24,050 --> 00:33:27,614 I believe unintentional errors that have been made in 532 00:33:27,652 --> 00:33:30,800 translation over the years are constantly being 533 00:33:31,810 --> 00:33:34,962 corrected. And so we are 534 00:33:35,096 --> 00:33:38,466 constantly refining the process, constantly getting better and 535 00:33:38,488 --> 00:33:42,066 better greek manuscripts and constantly getting better and 536 00:33:42,088 --> 00:33:43,330 better translations. 537 00:33:46,090 --> 00:33:48,440 But over, above and all of that, 538 00:33:50,570 --> 00:33:53,080 do we trust a God in the process? 539 00:33:55,930 --> 00:33:59,530 So to me, there's plenty of reason to be confident 540 00:34:00,030 --> 00:34:03,674 in the process as it's understood. I think I can trust 541 00:34:03,712 --> 00:34:07,354 this as a reliable representation. But on 542 00:34:07,392 --> 00:34:10,942 top of that and in that is I trust God 543 00:34:10,996 --> 00:34:13,120 wants me to have his word. 544 00:34:16,450 --> 00:34:18,240 Any follow up questions there? 545 00:34:22,210 --> 00:34:25,410 I think if I did, I would send us down another rabbit trail. 546 00:34:28,870 --> 00:34:32,546 Well, I appreciate you at least listening. It wasn't a rant, I don't guessing, but 547 00:34:32,728 --> 00:34:36,446 it's a pretty well not rehearsed. 548 00:34:36,638 --> 00:34:40,214 It's a thing that's deep in me. It's something that really has mattered to 549 00:34:40,252 --> 00:34:44,086 me over the years. I spent a lot of time in 550 00:34:44,108 --> 00:34:47,926 my college years and in the years immediately after that, really studying that 551 00:34:47,948 --> 00:34:51,514 and understanding, because there was a time when it's a pretty big question people were 552 00:34:51,552 --> 00:34:55,370 asking. I think most of the questions people are asking now 553 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,194 really are kind of what we talked 554 00:34:59,232 --> 00:35:03,082 about last time. Can I really trust the authority 555 00:35:03,146 --> 00:35:05,920 that this has when it competes against 556 00:35:06,690 --> 00:35:09,950 what I want to believe or what 557 00:35:10,020 --> 00:35:13,694 we want to believe as a society? I think 558 00:35:13,732 --> 00:35:16,900 that's most of the question. It's really not about whether or not 559 00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:22,094 the divine nature of the transcription process or the translation 560 00:35:22,142 --> 00:35:25,940 of the Latin Vulgate and the Septuagint and all these things. I mean, 561 00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:30,920 those aren't the questions that people have, but I just think it's important 562 00:35:31,850 --> 00:35:35,494 just for people to be able to hear it. And if you do have that 563 00:35:35,532 --> 00:35:39,114 question, you can feel confident. And 564 00:35:39,152 --> 00:35:42,682 honestly, I would be like, if you really do have more questions on this, 565 00:35:42,736 --> 00:35:46,282 I'm available. I'm not trying to talk anybody's ear off 566 00:35:46,336 --> 00:35:49,260 for 400 minutes, 567 00:35:50,750 --> 00:35:53,418 but if you need an extra four or five minutes, I would be glad to 568 00:35:53,424 --> 00:35:56,618 keep talking to you. So please just let me know. You can email me, Charlie, 569 00:35:56,634 --> 00:36:00,254 at the grovechurch.org. We can talk about this all you want, any questions you 570 00:36:00,292 --> 00:36:03,946 have. And Abigail, who's over here running the cameras, I know she's 571 00:36:03,978 --> 00:36:07,218 probably, over the course of the last 2030 minutes, probably has 15 572 00:36:07,304 --> 00:36:11,122 questions. Have you already texted them to me? Oh, 573 00:36:11,176 --> 00:36:15,026 great. She's already texting me some, so that's going to be great. So thanks 574 00:36:15,048 --> 00:36:18,066 for being here. Thanks for joining us. And I really do hope that it says, 575 00:36:18,168 --> 00:36:21,718 strengthened your faith. And to the degree that has had you asking 576 00:36:21,804 --> 00:36:25,346 questions, I hope you'll ask them and you can do that. By again by emailing 577 00:36:25,378 --> 00:36:28,166 me. Or we can just connect on a Sunday. You can find everything you need 578 00:36:28,188 --> 00:36:31,910 to know about us at the grovechurch.org slash Connect. Whether you're local 579 00:36:31,980 --> 00:36:35,702 or away, you can join us in person or stream us online. Connect 580 00:36:35,756 --> 00:36:38,918 with us. We would love to hear from you Mark, again, thanks for being here 581 00:36:38,924 --> 00:36:41,806 and being a part of this. Thank you for being a part of this and 582 00:36:41,828 --> 00:36:43,100 we'll see you soon. Have a blessed day.