WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.059 --> 00:00:04.473 Leigh: It's so much more efficient and quicker if I don't pretend that I have all 00:00:04.473 --> 00:00:08.843 the answers right away and just say, Hey, you're smarter than me let me listen to 00:00:08.843 --> 00:00:12.833 you in this realm and then go to somebody else and say, Hey, you're smarter than 00:00:12.833 --> 00:00:15.143 me or that other person in this realm. 00:00:15.316 --> 00:00:19.306 First thing, avoid hardware at all costs can't like that. 00:00:19.666 --> 00:00:21.246 That is one of the lessons. 00:00:21.448 --> 00:00:23.498 Raphaël: Aren't you also working on another hardware 00:00:23.585 --> 00:00:26.675 Leigh: yes, but and maybe I'll explain that. 00:00:26.705 --> 00:00:29.562 If you can't avoid building hardware, 00:00:29.585 --> 00:00:30.005 Raphaël: Yeah, 00:00:30.298 --> 00:00:33.418 Leigh: it actually proves that your hardware is necessary. 00:00:33.558 --> 00:00:33.912 Raphaël: yeah. 00:00:33.912 --> 00:00:37.862 Leigh: Which is a good place to be, because it takes so long 00:00:37.885 --> 00:00:40.528 and every expense just builds up 00:00:40.558 --> 00:00:44.028 changing one line of code, you can run it right away. 00:00:44.078 --> 00:00:49.785 Changing a sensor or a chip it's weeks to get it manufactured and sent over, and 00:00:49.785 --> 00:00:51.755 then that may not fix something, right? 00:00:51.795 --> 00:00:55.535 And of course there's burn rate for everything else going on 00:00:55.535 --> 00:00:56.015 Thronmax MDrill One Pro & USB Video: Hey folks. 00:00:56.045 --> 00:01:00.815 And welcome to this latest episode of the small tech podcast. 00:01:00.845 --> 00:01:06.168 I am Raph the co-founder of EC, the digital product studio, building 00:01:06.168 --> 00:01:09.288 technology for a more sustainable future. 00:01:09.343 --> 00:01:12.403 And today we have another awesome guest. 00:01:12.475 --> 00:01:16.795 He is the founder and CEO of Preception. 00:01:17.095 --> 00:01:21.085 He's also a friend of mine and someone that I've known for almost a decade. 00:01:21.085 --> 00:01:21.655 I think. 00:01:21.955 --> 00:01:27.265 I always find it really fun to chat with him about what he's doing about sport, 00:01:27.295 --> 00:01:30.505 about the technology that he's building. 00:01:30.535 --> 00:01:33.145 He's always such a positive. 00:01:33.445 --> 00:01:37.525 Positive person who really makes you just want to go out and build 00:01:37.525 --> 00:01:40.705 something And feel good about what you're creating about building a 00:01:40.705 --> 00:01:42.625 startup about building a product. 00:01:42.925 --> 00:01:45.655 He's also done a lot of really neat stuff in his career. 00:01:45.655 --> 00:01:51.085 And it's just really cool to, to dig into that and learn more about his career 00:01:51.085 --> 00:01:53.845 trajectory, his path as an entrepreneur. 00:01:54.445 --> 00:01:56.695 How all of these things sort of came together. 00:01:56.995 --> 00:01:58.555 I really enjoyed this chat. 00:01:58.585 --> 00:02:03.685 I love these conversations where I talk to people that I already know quite well. 00:02:03.985 --> 00:02:08.215 Because I get to learn all kinds of things that I did not know about them. 00:02:08.215 --> 00:02:12.175 When we're doing it in the context of like an interview and chatting about. 00:02:12.475 --> 00:02:13.255 Their journey. 00:02:13.555 --> 00:02:16.435 Really hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did. 00:02:16.735 --> 00:02:19.035 This is my chat with Leigh Sembaluk. 00:02:19.395 --> 00:02:19.815 , Raphaël: Hey Leigh, 00:02:20.192 --> 00:02:20.602 Leigh: Raph. 00:02:21.835 --> 00:02:22.665 Raphaël: How's it going? 00:02:22.715 --> 00:02:24.625 As if we weren't just talking right before this. 00:02:24.862 --> 00:02:25.682 Leigh: know, I know. 00:02:25.716 --> 00:02:26.806 It's it's all for the show. 00:02:29.466 --> 00:02:30.636 I'll do whatever's needed. 00:02:30.666 --> 00:02:34.566 Raphaël: Yeah, I'm gonna dive right into this and just kind of ask you, 00:02:34.606 --> 00:02:39.996 uh, A, well, first off, what's, what is Preception and what is Pro Instinct? 00:02:39.996 --> 00:02:41.375 I 00:02:41.653 --> 00:02:47.483 Leigh: Preception is the company that I started and ProInstinct is the 00:02:47.483 --> 00:02:52.081 first product is probably the best way of just separating those two. 00:02:52.081 --> 00:02:58.855 Preception, what we do is we train and measure spatial awareness, 00:02:58.915 --> 00:03:03.905 decision making, speed of thought in athletes, starting with soccer. 00:03:03.975 --> 00:03:06.360 I'll say football, because that's, um And that's, you know, what 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:09.330 I usually say, um, first and 00:03:10.013 --> 00:03:11.463 Raphaël: was very surprised to hear the S 00:03:11.590 --> 00:03:15.590 Leigh: yeah, I know, I know, you know, you got to cater to all audiences, 00:03:16.150 --> 00:03:21.520 Raph, um, but yeah, basically it's based off all the things that were deemed 00:03:21.760 --> 00:03:24.040 like impossible to train and measure. 00:03:24.215 --> 00:03:26.415 And I didn't like that as an answer. 00:03:28.305 --> 00:03:30.845 And, you know, tech is meant to solve problems. 00:03:30.945 --> 00:03:34.495 So that's where we started, what we do, and what we're capable of doing. 00:03:35.048 --> 00:03:35.628 awesome 00:03:36.178 --> 00:03:40.048 Raphaël: And Pro Instinct is within that. 00:03:40.378 --> 00:03:40.998 It's a mobile app. 00:03:41.315 --> 00:03:41.805 Leigh: Yeah. 00:03:41.845 --> 00:03:48.445 So speaking about pivots, during COVID, uh, hardware and access to teams was 00:03:48.445 --> 00:03:51.825 a real problem for obvious reasons. 00:03:52.105 --> 00:03:57.815 So, we decided, well, you know, since teams aren't competing and athletes 00:03:57.815 --> 00:04:03.025 aren't working with one another, and I would argue spatial awareness 00:04:03.165 --> 00:04:04.485 really went down during Covid because. 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:09.920 Everything was in front of a person on a screen, walking down the street you 00:04:09.920 --> 00:04:14.300 don't have to dodge anybody because they moved to the other side of the street. 00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:20.465 So we decided, well, if we go software only and use a cell phone as stimulus and 00:04:20.465 --> 00:04:27.205 as a training platform whats' possible And that's where was born out of actually the 00:04:27.215 --> 00:04:34.885 exact moment that I remember having that was, driving down Denman street and I was 00:04:34.885 --> 00:04:40.975 in the right lane of two lanes and there was a woman just walking down the sidewalk 00:04:41.808 --> 00:04:42.328 Raphaël: yeah, 00:04:42.355 --> 00:04:46.510 Leigh: uh, goes to avoid somebody in front to keep social distancing, 00:04:46.510 --> 00:04:48.900 but just like walks onto the street 00:04:49.578 --> 00:04:50.188 Raphaël: yeah, 00:04:50.260 --> 00:04:54.570 Leigh: steps there and her purse like hits my side view mirror. 00:04:54.570 --> 00:04:58.250 But had no idea I was there or moving and you know she's 00:04:58.350 --> 00:05:02.592 fine, but it was just, it was that moment of like, oh this And, uh, 00:05:02.592 --> 00:05:07.485 I think that this person in front of me is more important and don't 00:05:07.485 --> 00:05:12.335 even look to see or hear a car or anything out there, pay attention, 00:05:12.335 --> 00:05:18.515 they're, you know, on the street and jumping onto a street and a lane. 00:05:18.515 --> 00:05:21.785 And it was just, it was one of those moments where I was like, yeah, we, 00:05:21.875 --> 00:05:25.685 we really need to start working on increasing spatial awareness again. 00:05:26.145 --> 00:05:26.725 And. 00:05:27.240 --> 00:05:31.220 You know, it was a big moment of like, I need to make this 00:05:31.220 --> 00:05:32.950 change now and get better. 00:05:32.950 --> 00:05:33.440 Raphaël: Yep. 00:05:33.960 --> 00:05:34.560 Yeah. 00:05:35.110 --> 00:05:35.590 Wild. 00:05:35.640 --> 00:05:39.040 So actually with all of that why did you start this company? 00:05:39.640 --> 00:05:40.350 Who are you? 00:05:40.790 --> 00:05:41.900 Where did you come from? 00:05:41.900 --> 00:05:45.270 Just, just appeared out of nowhere and just kind of like, all right, 00:05:45.350 --> 00:05:46.600 I'm going to start this company. 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:47.000 Leigh: yeah. 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:50.660 And, and I'll say, I really didn't want to start a tech company. 00:05:51.100 --> 00:05:51.410 Like, 00:05:52.180 --> 00:05:53.140 I, I didn't. 00:05:53.250 --> 00:05:53.760 Um, 00:05:53.838 --> 00:05:54.778 Raphaël: That's so funny to 00:05:54.990 --> 00:05:59.460 Leigh: in many ways, I tried to do everything possible to avoid it because 00:05:59.530 --> 00:06:02.790 my background was as a footballer. 00:06:02.930 --> 00:06:07.750 Like that's, that's what I've done since I was four and then went to university 00:06:07.750 --> 00:06:11.080 and I got a degree, but that was just so that I could play football and, 00:06:12.220 --> 00:06:18.390 and, signed pro after that in New York and got injured and then coached full 00:06:18.390 --> 00:06:21.160 time with Vancouver Whitecaps and SFU. 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:27.580 And my job was to make pro athletes happy and on the field and you know like so 00:06:27.580 --> 00:06:31.965 pretty much as far away from Tech as possible where I'm just I'm a coach 00:06:32.005 --> 00:06:36.445 working with athletes in a ball, and yeah, there's tech involved, but what my 00:06:36.445 --> 00:06:42.565 background is luckily for me I know enough about tech because my dad was involved in 00:06:42.725 --> 00:06:47.125 computers and my brother is a solutions architect at IBM and stuff, so there's 00:06:47.165 --> 00:06:51.555 like, I have some knowledge through family 00:06:51.555 --> 00:06:55.895 Raphaël: You could throw some ideas around and hope to get some half decent feedback. 00:06:55.962 --> 00:06:56.422 Leigh: yeah. 00:06:56.522 --> 00:06:59.792 And family can't ignore me when I'm asking for good advice. 00:06:59.792 --> 00:07:00.062 Right. 00:07:00.062 --> 00:07:03.832 So, uh, it's, you know, it's, it's built in from birth. 00:07:04.472 --> 00:07:09.682 So, um, so luckily I had some advice and just grew up around computers and stuff. 00:07:09.732 --> 00:07:16.737 But why I started And the company and got into tech was at one point I was 00:07:16.737 --> 00:07:22.482 doing exit interviews with players and just discussing like your spatial 00:07:22.482 --> 00:07:24.512 awareness isn't where we need it to be. 00:07:24.562 --> 00:07:28.522 Your decision making is a little bit too slow and, you know, like 00:07:28.522 --> 00:07:32.772 it, it's just the reality was those things weren't good enough. 00:07:32.772 --> 00:07:37.222 I mean, they were technically good, good athletes, like is kind 00:07:37.222 --> 00:07:40.712 of the, the best of the young athletes that are available always, 00:07:40.905 --> 00:07:41.415 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:07:41.632 --> 00:07:42.202 Leigh: and. 00:07:42.692 --> 00:07:44.622 And one of them said, well, what do I do? 00:07:44.792 --> 00:07:50.412 And I gave them some, I'll say BS answer to, uh, make it, you know, 00:07:50.482 --> 00:07:52.322 make it correct for the podcast. 00:07:52.752 --> 00:07:57.265 But the reality was like, you just need to get better at it. 00:07:57.455 --> 00:07:59.145 And the only real way is by. 00:07:59.192 --> 00:08:04.592 Being in a good competitive environment like ours, but they've been there for 00:08:04.822 --> 00:08:06.752 a few years, haven't really added it. 00:08:06.782 --> 00:08:11.222 And we're sending them back into kind of like the, amateur environment 00:08:11.222 --> 00:08:13.082 knowing that probably will get better. 00:08:13.552 --> 00:08:16.885 So that bothered me because it's like, I'm just giving answers 00:08:16.885 --> 00:08:20.745 that I don't believe in, but I can't say, sorry, you're screwed. 00:08:20.815 --> 00:08:21.775 Like, I don't know. 00:08:22.695 --> 00:08:26.355 , So, my best friend is on his way to being a neuroscientist. 00:08:26.355 --> 00:08:27.955 So we had some conversations. 00:08:27.955 --> 00:08:32.685 He, he put me in touches with, uh, like some cognitive science professors 00:08:32.695 --> 00:08:39.978 at SFU and we started discussions and the consensus was it's a skill 00:08:41.058 --> 00:08:41.548 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:08:42.790 --> 00:08:45.140 Leigh: And I was like, great , I agree. 00:08:45.330 --> 00:08:45.650 Right. 00:08:45.760 --> 00:08:48.080 Because I've had it, other people have had it. 00:08:48.540 --> 00:08:50.640 Um, and that's what we, we look for. 00:08:50.640 --> 00:08:51.130 Right. 00:08:51.230 --> 00:08:53.610 And I said, well, can it be taught? 00:08:54.110 --> 00:08:56.400 And he goes, well, in theory, yes. 00:08:57.000 --> 00:08:58.840 And can it be measured? 00:08:58.900 --> 00:09:00.990 Same thing, like in theory, yes. 00:09:01.150 --> 00:09:03.270 And I'm like, but in reality, right. 00:09:03.300 --> 00:09:08.270 Cause in theory we can visit neighboring galaxies and things. 00:09:08.270 --> 00:09:09.190 Right. 00:09:09.845 --> 00:09:13.625 You know, right now, and the answer was like, you know, I've 00:09:13.875 --> 00:09:16.095 never seen a way of doing that. 00:09:16.795 --> 00:09:21.685 So, I was kind of at this point of, well, that's my job and what I want 00:09:21.725 --> 00:09:24.192 to do and want to improve players. 00:09:24.242 --> 00:09:28.010 But, the most important things to me, to their success in my opinion. 00:09:28.040 --> 00:09:29.203 We can't train. 00:09:29.203 --> 00:09:35.047 We can't measure as coaches even the discussion is like, Hey Raph, I think 00:09:35.047 --> 00:09:38.703 this player's, uh, you know, spatial awareness isn't where it needs to be. 00:09:38.793 --> 00:09:40.963 You're like, Hey Leigh, I think it is. 00:09:41.013 --> 00:09:42.733 And then we kind of just say, Okay. 00:09:43.473 --> 00:09:48.253 like, you know, oh, I think they make decisions too slow. 00:09:48.483 --> 00:09:49.543 I don't, okay. 00:09:49.563 --> 00:09:53.193 Like, you know, there's nothing to go off of where, you know, 00:09:53.213 --> 00:09:57.253 speed, strength, technical ability, there's metrics for everything. 00:09:58.106 --> 00:09:58.496 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:09:59.183 --> 00:10:03.643 Leigh: So yeah, for me I thought, well, okay, let's, let's start from zero. 00:10:03.683 --> 00:10:04.493 Cause that's what it was. 00:10:04.503 --> 00:10:10.268 So like developing methodology how would we train this and came up with a way of 00:10:10.268 --> 00:10:17.378 training it using existing hardware that was okay and got us to a level of proving 00:10:17.378 --> 00:10:23.428 things and launch that as a consulting company and it failed because the hardware 00:10:23.428 --> 00:10:28.988 sucked and wasn't made for purpose it was too bright outside and sensors would 00:10:28.988 --> 00:10:36.006 start triggering it's like okay this doesn't work so for now, so you know one 00:10:36.006 --> 00:10:42.156 of those moment where I either turn and go back to being a coach just make peace 00:10:42.156 --> 00:10:45.216 with it or build something for a purpose 00:10:47.256 --> 00:10:47.716 Raphaël: yeah. 00:10:47.768 --> 00:10:52.028 Leigh: What's possible if we actually build something that can measure these 00:10:52.038 --> 00:10:59.018 things that is made to work on field with teams as they already train with like 00:10:59.048 --> 00:11:04.298 all this and, and saw the possibilities and that it went way beyond just football 00:11:04.298 --> 00:11:10.188 and to other sports to potential like policing and, and training that way 00:11:10.188 --> 00:11:12.608 and military and it's like, well, that. 00:11:13.403 --> 00:11:17.783 You know, there's a, there's a lot of room for growth in all these things. 00:11:17.783 --> 00:11:22.433 And the, and the outcomes were in terms of performance, like mind blowingly good. 00:11:22.963 --> 00:11:29.603 So that's when I decided to start a company and I really wasn't excited about 00:11:29.603 --> 00:11:32.143 it but I remember talking to somebody. 00:11:32.633 --> 00:11:37.683 Uh, it was more of like a advisor, mentor, it might've been at Launch Academy, 00:11:37.743 --> 00:11:45.443 but, uh, they basically said, like, when you have, like, every reason to not 00:11:45.453 --> 00:11:48.263 do it, but you still can't let it go, 00:11:49.046 --> 00:11:49.206 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:11:49.403 --> 00:11:53.673 Leigh: like, that, that's a good place to start from, because you kind of need 00:11:53.673 --> 00:11:57.583 some of that as a founder of just, like, it doesn't make sense, but I 00:11:57.583 --> 00:12:02.383 just, I just Like solving this problem is bigger than whatever problems in 00:12:02.383 --> 00:12:05.173 front of me or reasons to turn back. 00:12:05.173 --> 00:12:05.573 So, 00:12:06.516 --> 00:12:06.956 Raphaël: Yep. 00:12:07.023 --> 00:12:09.723 Leigh: that's my long winded story of 00:12:10.096 --> 00:12:10.426 Raphaël: I love 00:12:10.593 --> 00:12:12.193 Leigh: how I got to where I was. 00:12:12.836 --> 00:12:16.546 Raphaël: Got dragged kicking and screaming into the tech world and then 00:12:16.546 --> 00:12:17.936 was kind of like, oh, I kind of have to. 00:12:19.133 --> 00:12:22.763 Leigh: It was, it was equal parts that and excitement of 00:12:23.043 --> 00:12:25.543 like, okay I really want this 00:12:26.186 --> 00:12:26.656 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:12:27.043 --> 00:12:29.473 Leigh: And I know other people do too, right? 00:12:29.503 --> 00:12:34.063 And the main thing is like we were constantly failing players 00:12:34.063 --> 00:12:34.553 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:12:34.995 --> 00:12:37.865 Leigh: them to have things that they might even have it. 00:12:37.905 --> 00:12:43.755 And we can't even, we can't even identify it and agree up on it 00:12:44.513 --> 00:12:45.243 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:12:45.345 --> 00:12:49.145 Leigh: you know, like track and field, you know, exactly how fast somebody 00:12:49.145 --> 00:12:51.715 is, like it's, you know, it's easy. 00:12:51.775 --> 00:12:52.875 So, yeah. 00:12:53.180 --> 00:12:54.890 You know, that part excited me too. 00:12:54.890 --> 00:12:58.730 And it was like, okay, we actually can give players the opportunities 00:12:58.940 --> 00:13:01.280 that they've earned and deserved. 00:13:01.450 --> 00:13:06.750 And, you know, um allow us to see what their potential really is 00:13:06.780 --> 00:13:11.530 versus, you know, what just in our minds we've made up about them. 00:13:11.530 --> 00:13:13.970 And we also have biases. 00:13:13.990 --> 00:13:15.810 We validate our own. 00:13:16.190 --> 00:13:19.390 You know, first perspectives of players. 00:13:20.153 --> 00:13:20.493 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:13:20.630 --> 00:13:25.180 Leigh: So that was the other thing first impressions are important 00:13:25.180 --> 00:13:28.730 and if it's one that they're not aware of, that sticks in our mind. 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:32.910 If it's one where they made a great turn, it's like, wow. 00:13:32.910 --> 00:13:37.480 They keep validating that and then neither of them is necessarily based in fact. 00:13:37.580 --> 00:13:38.280 So, 00:13:38.813 --> 00:13:39.173 Raphaël: Yep. 00:13:40.040 --> 00:13:43.520 Leigh: so that's, that's the stuff has kept me going all these years. 00:13:44.653 --> 00:13:45.343 Raphaël: Cool. 00:13:46.013 --> 00:13:46.983 I, yeah, I love it. 00:13:47.043 --> 00:13:51.853 I'm kind of curious with all of that, and Preception as a company that builds 00:13:51.853 --> 00:13:57.553 hardware and ProInstinct as a product that is software I feel like I've heard 00:13:57.553 --> 00:14:03.663 you get pretty enthusiastic about youth sport and we did some work together 00:14:03.693 --> 00:14:06.123 on some Pro Instinct stuff last year. 00:14:06.708 --> 00:14:13.108 And I'm kind of curious how youth specifically and encouraging youth 00:14:13.108 --> 00:14:15.588 sport, fits into all of this. 00:14:15.688 --> 00:14:20.238 Leigh: Yeah, so the hardware side is, has uses for youth sport absolutely 00:14:20.238 --> 00:14:24.433 and, and will tie in and, but it's just because of price points and 00:14:24.493 --> 00:14:26.253 everything is, is, a lot higher. 00:14:26.253 --> 00:14:31.433 And, and we're also, um, you know, the hardware is still in R&D, even 00:14:31.433 --> 00:14:35.333 though we've made really good progress and hit some milestones there. 00:14:36.023 --> 00:14:40.653 But for your question for youth sport, it was part of the reason why 00:14:40.903 --> 00:14:48.633 ProInstinct came about, I'll say just access to sport to training to to 00:14:48.763 --> 00:14:51.033 basically start eliminating barriers. 00:14:51.333 --> 00:14:52.383 Was the main reason. 00:14:52.443 --> 00:14:56.423 Because nowadays almost everyone has a cell phone. 00:14:57.261 --> 00:14:57.611 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:14:58.123 --> 00:15:03.553 Leigh: we've even made everything so that the cell phone someone has can be. 00:15:04.083 --> 00:15:06.993 Five, 10 years old and it still runs fine. 00:15:07.623 --> 00:15:12.313 And apps can be super cheap and just build, like we, 00:15:12.318 --> 00:15:13.048 we have it where it's just. 00:15:13.483 --> 00:15:17.463 And this is built into what clubs or organizations already provide. 00:15:17.813 --> 00:15:21.323 And even then, if it's too expensive for certain ones, you 00:15:21.443 --> 00:15:23.453 can give it as discounts or free. 00:15:23.503 --> 00:15:27.753 Like, we, we really the whole point is eliminating barriers. 00:15:27.813 --> 00:15:28.373 And 00:15:28.601 --> 00:15:29.081 Raphaël: I love it. 00:15:29.363 --> 00:15:31.903 Leigh: we even did a partnership. 00:15:32.073 --> 00:15:36.023 To do a bit of a launch with the North American Indigenous Games that was 00:15:36.413 --> 00:15:42.353 generously funded by Canadian Tire's Jumpstart program, um, who I've been 00:15:42.423 --> 00:15:46.193 extremely impressed with, and have a lot of respect for the stuff they do. 00:15:46.193 --> 00:15:49.573 And yeah, they were just a joy to work with and we're looking at more. 00:15:49.673 --> 00:15:52.633 With something like the North American Indigenous Games. 00:15:52.633 --> 00:15:56.533 It's athletes from literally all areas of Canada. 00:15:56.783 --> 00:16:03.143 Into the US as well where access to training is sometimes hours away 00:16:03.193 --> 00:16:05.123 for club teams for other things. 00:16:05.123 --> 00:16:10.830 So that was part of the aim is just, let's get, really good training, even 00:16:10.830 --> 00:16:12.490 if someone's training on their own. 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:16.990 That's almost impossible to have any sort of spatial awareness and 00:16:16.990 --> 00:16:21.300 quick decision making on whether space or opportunities are around us. 00:16:21.990 --> 00:16:27.800 So it was a ways of taking things that weren't even being trained at MLS 00:16:27.800 --> 00:16:33.790 Academy and NCAA University levels and saying, here, anyone, anyone can 00:16:33.790 --> 00:16:40.830 have this for free or covered through donations and foundations to any use club. 00:16:40.970 --> 00:16:47.460 When it comes back to just everyone being able to have the chance to start realizing 00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:50.060 potential in the ways that they want to. 00:16:50.270 --> 00:16:54.460 And if that's sport then great, we're happy to be there. 00:16:54.560 --> 00:16:55.220 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:55.910 Awesome. 00:16:55.970 --> 00:17:00.520 Your journey little Leigh, what would, uh, would Little Leigh have 00:17:00.530 --> 00:17:02.020 benefited from, from this app? 00:17:02.020 --> 00:17:05.280 I'm sure, of course, but, um, yeah, do you want to talk a little bit 00:17:05.280 --> 00:17:07.110 about your journey as a young athlete? 00:17:08.207 --> 00:17:11.277 Leigh: so, absolutely I would have benefited from it. 00:17:11.647 --> 00:17:16.314 I also had, you know, maybe a built in version of this that I don't 00:17:16.344 --> 00:17:20.654 recommend, but I always was playing about four or five years up, and 00:17:21.074 --> 00:17:25.054 I mean, Raph, you know me, but I'm like five foot seven on a good day. 00:17:25.857 --> 00:17:26.247 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:17:26.247 --> 00:17:27.074 Yeah. 00:17:27.074 --> 00:17:27.900 Okay. 00:17:28.024 --> 00:17:32.354 Leigh: always playing against kids that were like three, four years older. 00:17:32.384 --> 00:17:37.854 I was playing in the men's league in Saskatchewan when I was 15. 00:17:37.954 --> 00:17:40.464 So like, I would just get kicked. 00:17:40.549 --> 00:17:45.349 And by people that would be upset, there's a little kid that's doing okay in a game. 00:17:45.459 --> 00:17:51.094 And I had more of just, Everyone was faster than me, everyone was stronger, 00:17:51.494 --> 00:17:57.914 um, and I would just get fouled a lot, so I had to constantly be looking around, 00:17:58.384 --> 00:18:04.814 and if I was taking one too many touches, I would know because I would feel it. 00:18:06.394 --> 00:18:13.474 So, I'm not suggesting that's what other people do but, um, yeah, the 00:18:13.474 --> 00:18:20.264 amount of times that I had ice and things after games was huge, but, you 00:18:20.264 --> 00:18:26.039 know, the benefit was really When I was and became, you know, a fully grown 00:18:26.229 --> 00:18:31.559 adult, I now didn't have any of those disadvantages, but had such good awareness 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.079 Raphaël: gonna say you don't recommend it, but it doesn't hurt. 00:18:34.239 --> 00:18:35.229 But it does hurt. 00:18:35.326 --> 00:18:35.596 Leigh: it, it, 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:36.209 Raphaël: doesn't hurt. 00:18:36.259 --> 00:18:38.869 Leigh: It's less painful using an application. 00:18:38.879 --> 00:18:43.729 We haven't built out the hardware to just put in a slide tackle, when 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:45.759 you take too long to see something. 00:18:48.809 --> 00:18:53.409 It's, it's a few, few generations down the lawyers have some problems with it. 00:18:53.409 --> 00:18:58.419 So, we'll see when it gets released, but, um, you know, it's, it's been 00:18:58.419 --> 00:19:04.409 pushed off a few times, despite my best efforts at getting it through. 00:19:07.077 --> 00:19:10.597 Raphaël: actually, I'm kind of curious, because with your background, and I love 00:19:10.597 --> 00:19:13.737 this about like talking to people who didn't come from like tech, who came 00:19:13.737 --> 00:19:20.157 from somewhere else, like Stepping into tech world and like learning how product 00:19:20.157 --> 00:19:27.217 development, but even actually, so for you, you went from not tech to hardware, 00:19:27.677 --> 00:19:32.117 which I feel like is a whole other like can of worms and then into software, 00:19:32.117 --> 00:19:34.177 which is also just very different. 00:19:34.717 --> 00:19:38.007 Like what are some things that you learned going through 00:19:38.017 --> 00:19:39.537 all of these transitions? 00:19:39.957 --> 00:19:43.927 cause I feel like it sounds a bit like a lot of whiplash. 00:19:44.459 --> 00:19:44.989 Leigh: Yeah. 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:47.519 First thing, avoid hardware at all costs. 00:19:48.169 --> 00:19:49.069 can't like that. 00:19:49.429 --> 00:19:51.009 That is one of the lessons. 00:19:51.564 --> 00:19:52.154 Um, 00:19:53.027 --> 00:19:55.077 Raphaël: Aren't you also working on another hardware 00:19:55.164 --> 00:19:59.764 Leigh: yes, but, so, and maybe I'll explain that. 00:19:59.794 --> 00:20:02.944 If you can't avoid building hardware, 00:20:03.547 --> 00:20:03.967 Raphaël: Yeah, 00:20:04.674 --> 00:20:07.794 Leigh: it actually proves that your hardware is necessary. 00:20:08.577 --> 00:20:09.077 Raphaël: yeah. 00:20:09.244 --> 00:20:14.514 Leigh: is, which is a good place to be, because it takes so long 00:20:14.584 --> 00:20:21.964 and Every expense just builds up because, you know, changing one line 00:20:21.964 --> 00:20:24.104 of code, you can run it right away. 00:20:24.154 --> 00:20:29.594 Changing a sensor or a chip or something on a board, that's 00:20:29.997 --> 00:20:31.207 Raphaël: You can't one click deploy 00:20:31.224 --> 00:20:35.864 Leigh: Yeah, it's weeks to get it manufactured and sent over, and then 00:20:36.134 --> 00:20:37.764 that may not fix something, right? 00:20:37.804 --> 00:20:41.254 And of course there's burn rate for everything else going 00:20:41.254 --> 00:20:42.964 on, even if that stops it. 00:20:43.018 --> 00:20:49.274 And also hardware is often like, let's get the hardware we think can get us the data 00:20:49.274 --> 00:20:54.454 or do the thing that we think it can do to get the insights we think we can get. 00:20:54.464 --> 00:20:57.894 Like, you know, but the upfront cost is just big for that, right? 00:20:58.324 --> 00:21:05.208 So that's probably my first lesson I think it's a really good barrier because if you 00:21:05.218 --> 00:21:10.458 need it, then that also means any problem you're solving also needs that hardware, 00:21:11.276 --> 00:21:11.606 Raphaël: yeah, 00:21:11.908 --> 00:21:17.788 Leigh: Whereas software, is way easier, but it can also be replaced a lot easier 00:21:17.788 --> 00:21:23.648 if someone else can come along and there's not really patents and moats for software. 00:21:23.648 --> 00:21:26.788 It's easier to get in, but also easier for anyone else to get in. 00:21:26.838 --> 00:21:31.168 There's probably two lessons that are tied of me being non tech and getting in. 00:21:31.228 --> 00:21:37.888 And one is, how genuinely helpful the tech community has been. 00:21:38.538 --> 00:21:43.168 I've noticed almost every founder I've talked to has some bit of humility 00:21:43.208 --> 00:21:49.278 because we've all failed in so many different ways that it's like Hey, 00:21:49.328 --> 00:21:53.158 if I can help, let me help or give advice or connect you with somebody, 00:21:53.198 --> 00:21:57.878 because it's the only real reason that person's still around is because 00:21:57.878 --> 00:22:00.138 they've had all this help along the way. 00:22:01.018 --> 00:22:05.988 Um, and I've seen that not just in Vancouver, but a lot of other places. 00:22:05.988 --> 00:22:06.468 Raphaël: yeah, 00:22:06.520 --> 00:22:09.480 Leigh: it's pretty easy which ones aren't willing to help, 00:22:10.358 --> 00:22:10.368 Raphaël: mm 00:22:10.590 --> 00:22:13.560 Leigh: that's okay too, but it's like, it's just, it's night and 00:22:13.560 --> 00:22:15.990 day, and we don't need to be friends with everybody either. 00:22:17.198 --> 00:22:17.661 Raphaël: yeah, mm 00:22:17.750 --> 00:22:21.450 Leigh: So that was probably the first thing, and then the second thing 00:22:21.530 --> 00:22:27.310 was I feel I have had an advantage because I didn't come in thinking 00:22:27.310 --> 00:22:29.060 I really knew how to do things. 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:35.340 Which, made it easier because I just had to synthesize a bunch of really 00:22:35.340 --> 00:22:40.900 good information and advice and more say I'm not going to take this 00:22:40.950 --> 00:22:43.660 because this doesn't apply to us. 00:22:44.518 --> 00:22:45.038 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:22:45.050 --> 00:22:50.420 Leigh: opposed to, I'll say often, and I've seen this actually as 00:22:50.550 --> 00:22:53.530 I've gone on further, there's times where I just think I have 00:22:53.900 --> 00:22:57.326 the right answer and the right way of doing things and the first thing someone 00:22:57.326 --> 00:23:03.156 has to do is convince me that my way isn't the best way which takes time 00:23:03.946 --> 00:23:09.857 and then introduce the new way of like, that was probably the other really good 00:23:09.857 --> 00:23:17.592 lesson is it's so much more efficient and easy and quicker and takes less 00:23:17.592 --> 00:23:21.902 time if I don't pretend that I have all the answers right away and can 00:23:21.902 --> 00:23:24.212 just say, Hey, you're smarter than me. 00:23:24.522 --> 00:23:28.302 Let me listen to you in this realm and then go to somebody else and 00:23:28.302 --> 00:23:32.432 say, Hey, you're smarter than me or that other person in this realm. 00:23:33.395 --> 00:23:33.765 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:23:34.362 --> 00:23:37.282 Leigh: And, and, uh, yeah, so, 00:23:38.265 --> 00:23:38.615 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:23:38.615 --> 00:23:39.605 It's awesome to have. 00:23:39.615 --> 00:23:43.465 I, I feel like I appreciate that so much, both about, like the, the 00:23:43.465 --> 00:23:47.375 community that I was in, the startup community that I was in before 00:23:47.375 --> 00:23:50.215 in Halifax and here in Vancouver. 00:23:50.235 --> 00:23:53.025 Like there's just so many people who are willing to sort of share. 00:23:53.545 --> 00:23:57.965 And if you're open to it, like there's, yeah, there's so many 00:23:57.965 --> 00:23:59.325 people who are willing to help. 00:23:59.405 --> 00:24:02.785 And yeah, if you stay open then it's just so much easier. 00:24:02.785 --> 00:24:03.115 Yeah. 00:24:03.152 --> 00:24:06.909 Leigh: also often smartest people and the ones that know what 00:24:06.909 --> 00:24:09.269 they're doing don't act like it. 00:24:09.269 --> 00:24:15.819 So like, it's nice to not over estimate or underestimate people. 00:24:15.829 --> 00:24:18.909 It's just ask a question because there's some brilliant people 00:24:19.429 --> 00:24:24.059 that I was like, Oh, I, you know, I've talked to you maybe once. 00:24:24.404 --> 00:24:31.204 And they're a little bit shy or socially awkward or whatever, but like the advice 00:24:31.204 --> 00:24:35.564 and when they do decide to speak, it's like, it's really worth listening to. 00:24:36.274 --> 00:24:41.547 So I also like that, you know, say sport gets a reputation for big, 00:24:41.557 --> 00:24:45.427 strong, loud, fast, confidence all this, and that's fine. 00:24:45.687 --> 00:24:49.897 And that's generally what thrives, where tech kind of, I'll say equalizes 00:24:49.917 --> 00:24:52.647 a lot of that, uh, in my opinion, too. 00:24:52.647 --> 00:24:53.707 So, so, 00:24:53.854 --> 00:24:56.450 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:24:56.897 --> 00:24:59.913 Leigh: knew where the key pieces of advice were coming from. 00:24:59.913 --> 00:25:01.023 And that might just be me. 00:25:01.023 --> 00:25:03.493 Yeah, I've seen you around a couple times, like, what do you do? 00:25:03.493 --> 00:25:06.343 And, you know, so it's, yeah, it's been awesome that way. 00:25:06.393 --> 00:25:10.223 Raphaël: Are there any, like, things that you think really helped 00:25:10.263 --> 00:25:16.493 you coming from sport, coming from being an athlete, to tech? 00:25:16.503 --> 00:25:19.903 Like you run your team in a particular way because you come 00:25:19.903 --> 00:25:23.293 from sport or, I don't know, like, anything like that that you think, 00:25:23.345 --> 00:25:28.165 Leigh: I get out the tactics board and draw the X's and circles and lines. 00:25:28.668 --> 00:25:30.818 Raphaël: Yeah, little whiteboard markers, and, yep. 00:25:31.085 --> 00:25:33.861 Leigh: Maybe I'll start from the coaching side first, because 00:25:34.171 --> 00:25:38.388 I feel in many ways, coaching is like the evolution into. 00:25:38.471 --> 00:25:43.921 You know, dropping the ego because we're a bit older and washed up, but still, 00:25:44.281 --> 00:25:47.871 like, you know, it's kind of like, it's not, it's not about us anymore, or I'll 00:25:48.101 --> 00:25:49.991 say when coaching is done properly. 00:25:50.744 --> 00:25:51.224 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:25:51.291 --> 00:25:55.511 Leigh: so the, the big lesson I learned there was I was the only 00:25:55.511 --> 00:25:58.641 like heavily involved person that couldn't actually play the game, 00:25:58.641 --> 00:25:59.071 Raphaël: Okay. 00:25:59.528 --> 00:26:03.238 Leigh: so it was all about making sure everyone else involved 00:26:03.978 --> 00:26:06.898 can thrive That's what it was. 00:26:06.908 --> 00:26:12.502 So when it comes from me and tech and also without me being a hardware 00:26:12.502 --> 00:26:14.752 engineer or anything like this, right? 00:26:14.752 --> 00:26:20.108 It was very much, my job is to help somebody else be their best. 00:26:20.178 --> 00:26:25.358 Right, so that, that was a really big lesson for me, because there, you know, 00:26:25.398 --> 00:26:30.238 everyone else that I work with, for most of it is the one really doing the 00:26:30.348 --> 00:26:35.348 hands on work, so that was probably one of the biggest lessons, um, but 00:26:35.348 --> 00:26:41.748 then from, from the player side I'll go with two, and one is actually, it's 00:26:41.748 --> 00:26:46.617 also aimed at a criticism of tech in general, but as an athlete, it's really 00:26:46.717 --> 00:26:53.167 clear of understanding like how much energy we put into something and also 00:26:53.217 --> 00:26:55.247 resting and taking care of ourselves. 00:26:55.302 --> 00:27:03.388 And throughout a week, if it's like every day we're training as hard as we can, 00:27:03.388 --> 00:27:09.278 you just fail, because there's no energy for a game, or when it matters, and such. 00:27:10.225 --> 00:27:15.515 The one thing that I really have tried to instill and understand is like, 00:27:15.515 --> 00:27:19.345 running a company is one grueling season. 00:27:21.315 --> 00:27:21.475 And 00:27:21.905 --> 00:27:28.805 I see tech so often of just like push through, grind, stay up late, do all this. 00:27:28.845 --> 00:27:30.655 And I just see people burning out. 00:27:30.725 --> 00:27:35.682 Where for me, it's more of there's some days where I'm just on a 00:27:35.682 --> 00:27:37.162 roll and have tons of energy. 00:27:37.222 --> 00:27:37.572 You know? 00:27:37.667 --> 00:27:41.287 I'll be doing work till eight, nine at night, and that's fine. 00:27:41.747 --> 00:27:45.967 And then there's other days that I'll just come to like one or two 00:27:45.967 --> 00:27:50.757 o'clock and look and see my schedule and be like, I've got nothing else. 00:27:51.167 --> 00:27:55.955 I've not been productive, like stop, rest, call it a day, 00:27:56.723 --> 00:27:57.173 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:27:57.345 --> 00:28:01.318 Leigh: come back tomorrow actually fresh, uh, instead of just I'll say, 00:28:01.318 --> 00:28:04.568 falling flat and such for days to come. 00:28:04.618 --> 00:28:09.718 I think that's one of the big lessons is actually being able to check in 00:28:09.718 --> 00:28:11.558 and be like, how am I doing today? 00:28:11.648 --> 00:28:13.388 Like, what's my energy like? 00:28:13.898 --> 00:28:17.048 As an example, if I am coming to a podcast. 00:28:17.308 --> 00:28:21.628 And, just like, oh, it's just another grind. 00:28:21.728 --> 00:28:23.358 Why even do it, right? 00:28:23.378 --> 00:28:29.678 So, um, that's one of the lessons, and then I think the other one is just, 00:28:29.678 --> 00:28:34.482 as an athlete I think there's, with team sports, I'll say there's a good 00:28:34.482 --> 00:28:40.435 understanding of our role is to do everything we can to compete and win. 00:28:41.183 --> 00:28:41.603 Raphaël: Mm-Hmm. 00:28:41.615 --> 00:28:45.355 Leigh: And, in a sport like football, that doesn't always happen. 00:28:46.163 --> 00:28:46.453 Raphaël: Yeah. 00:28:46.895 --> 00:28:49.725 Leigh: sometimes it's just like, yeah, this game, we weren't 00:28:49.765 --> 00:28:51.035 gonna win, they were too good. 00:28:51.135 --> 00:28:53.855 It's almost like a test of just, how good am I right now? 00:28:54.385 --> 00:28:57.205 And then try and be a little bit better the next time. 00:28:57.272 --> 00:29:00.582 You know, that it's just like, yeah, there's so many different factors, 00:29:00.592 --> 00:29:02.902 so many things that, that can change. 00:29:02.902 --> 00:29:07.392 And like that willingness to constantly just battle and then. 00:29:07.817 --> 00:29:10.107 They're like, okay, I , did my best, 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:11.140 Raphaël: Yep. 00:29:11.467 --> 00:29:13.627 Leigh: and we won, great, celebrate, be happy. 00:29:13.967 --> 00:29:18.447 We lost be pissed off and disappointed, but I'll be back on the field 00:29:18.447 --> 00:29:20.337 tomorrow and you know just continue. 00:29:20.847 --> 00:29:27.097 So I think that's the other thing that is like that, I'll say that resilience and 00:29:27.097 --> 00:29:31.307 kind of just going with the punches and having that Yeah , it's not a confidence. 00:29:31.307 --> 00:29:36.517 It's just more of a, just a solidity of just like, this is who I am. 00:29:36.517 --> 00:29:37.427 This is what I do. 00:29:37.427 --> 00:29:42.677 And, now that's as a tech and tech founder, and we get beat up a lot 00:29:42.717 --> 00:29:46.571 and we have a lot of losses and wins, but that's just the way it is. 00:29:47.071 --> 00:29:47.601 Raphaël: Just keep 00:29:47.601 --> 00:29:47.941 going. 00:29:49.741 --> 00:29:50.281 Cool. 00:29:50.331 --> 00:29:53.731 Well, thank you so much, Leigh this was really fun. 00:29:53.811 --> 00:29:58.401 and I feel like I learned a lot, about you, about the, the stuff that you do. 00:29:58.551 --> 00:30:03.711 Um, and I'm curious if you have a small tech product to plug, 00:30:04.001 --> 00:30:06.811 since this is podcast after all. 00:30:07.393 --> 00:30:11.863 Leigh: I know, and the, thing that I'm going to plug in, and I mean, 00:30:11.863 --> 00:30:16.153 it kind of ties in in multiple ways, but first of all, I'm in football 00:30:16.163 --> 00:30:17.903 withdrawal, um, sitting at the 00:30:17.921 --> 00:30:18.201 Raphaël: Okay. 00:30:18.393 --> 00:30:24.283 Leigh: all the time, so the, uh, the small tech, thing I'm actually 00:30:24.283 --> 00:30:25.673 going to plug is, a friend's. 00:30:25.913 --> 00:30:30.343 This game that he made it was made by Gabe Karkanis, who we actually both know, 00:30:30.343 --> 00:30:33.963 but he developed a game called Pocket FC. 00:30:34.718 --> 00:30:34.968 And 00:30:35.798 --> 00:30:41.438 it's, uh, you know, it's a, it's a free to play game that's either for mobile 00:30:41.438 --> 00:30:46.782 or web, it's kind of like the best blend of playing like fantasy football with 00:30:46.782 --> 00:30:51.212 friends where you do drafts and compete against each other and like, games are 00:30:51.232 --> 00:30:54.402 matched up and a football manager game. 00:30:54.472 --> 00:31:02.642 So you own a team and then matches are just kind of set throughout the season so 00:31:02.642 --> 00:31:04.862 they happen generally about twice a day. 00:31:05.685 --> 00:31:06.205 Raphaël: Okay. 00:31:07.212 --> 00:31:10.582 Leigh: it's, you actually get to compete with friends in a league 00:31:10.582 --> 00:31:15.412 and buy players and sell players and set formations and do all that. 00:31:15.502 --> 00:31:20.712 I mean this in the best of ways, like it's, it's the crappy overhead view of 00:31:20.802 --> 00:31:26.302 dots walking, going around the and just watch like a quick three minute game, 00:31:26.862 --> 00:31:31.822 um, which is, which is fun because it's just, you get to see them play out what 00:31:31.832 --> 00:31:34.532 you have and see the, the winner loss. 00:31:34.692 --> 00:31:40.447 And but the reason it's actually made my life better is because it's kind 00:31:40.447 --> 00:31:44.637 of like it takes five or ten minutes a day and you just sit down and be like, 00:31:44.637 --> 00:31:48.987 how did my team do, set the formation, and that can be it for the next game, 00:31:49.007 --> 00:31:54.277 but it's turned into a way of, like, having a nice little break that allows 00:31:54.277 --> 00:31:58.197 you to, you know, You know, it can't get lost into because there's nothing 00:31:58.407 --> 00:32:00.797 to do after that five or 10 minutes. 00:32:01.307 --> 00:32:06.807 And I just wait till, you know, here it's 3am and 3pm are the games. 00:32:06.817 --> 00:32:09.767 So I just wake up, see how I did, set it at lunch. 00:32:09.817 --> 00:32:12.987 Then that's, you know, kind of all I need to do. 00:32:12.987 --> 00:32:17.427 But it's like that way of injecting just a little bit of joy and a bit of a break. 00:32:17.427 --> 00:32:24.247 And also a way of I, my team's in the, in the MLS league, and so is Gabe and a 00:32:24.257 --> 00:32:28.232 few other people we know, so it's just a way of, you know, You know, a little 00:32:28.232 --> 00:32:32.182 bit of trash talking or actually being like, yeah, you were good that day. 00:32:34.482 --> 00:32:39.032 So anyway, it's just, you know, it's a, it's a fun way to build that little bit 00:32:39.032 --> 00:32:45.232 of, of connection and smiling and joy and whatever it to, you know, into the day. 00:32:45.252 --> 00:32:50.442 Some people meditate, some people do go do all these other things for me. 00:32:50.442 --> 00:32:52.142 That's just like a little way of. 00:32:52.927 --> 00:32:53.677 Throwing that in. 00:32:53.677 --> 00:32:58.827 So, yeah, PI wanna make sure I get it proper I think it's pocketfc.com. 00:32:59.217 --> 00:32:59.727 So, 00:32:59.760 --> 00:33:00.350 Raphaël: Awesome. 00:33:00.630 --> 00:33:00.960 Cool. 00:33:00.990 --> 00:33:02.250 We'll link to it in the show notes as 00:33:02.250 --> 00:33:02.580 well. 00:33:02.732 --> 00:33:06.907 Leigh: and, and if you join the MLS, I'm, uh, Montreal fc, and, and 00:33:06.907 --> 00:33:10.357 currently in second, I think I'm gonna lose the league this time. 00:33:10.357 --> 00:33:11.167 But, uh, 00:33:11.810 --> 00:33:11.990 Raphaël: Oh 00:33:11.990 --> 00:33:14.130 no, who's winning? 00:33:15.797 --> 00:33:18.227 Leigh: it's actually Gabe's partner, Seattle. 00:33:20.210 --> 00:33:21.000 Raphaël: I 00:33:21.050 --> 00:33:24.180 think there might be some, that, that sounds like collusion to me. 00:33:25.710 --> 00:33:27.330 Someone's got access to the back end 00:33:27.647 --> 00:33:34.237 Leigh: Yeah, yeah, I, I don't, I think if that was the case, Gabe would be, Gabe 00:33:34.567 --> 00:33:40.817 would be doing a little better, but, uh, yeah, no, it's, yeah, it's just, it's a 00:33:40.817 --> 00:33:43.597 lot of, it's a lot of fun, so, you know, 00:33:43.907 --> 00:33:47.643 I think we might see you on there soon, Raph, too, as 00:33:47.650 --> 00:33:48.040 Raphaël: Yep. 00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:50.900 Awesome. 00:33:50.940 --> 00:33:51.100 Cool. 00:33:51.220 --> 00:33:52.740 Well, thanks so much, Leigh. 00:33:52.990 --> 00:33:53.560 Um, 00:33:53.667 --> 00:33:55.027 Leigh: having me on, it's been fun. 00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:56.550 Raphaël: yeah. 00:33:56.770 --> 00:33:57.290 Alrighty. 00:33:57.360 --> 00:33:59.630 Well, have a good, uh, good rest of your day. 00:33:59.917 --> 00:34:00.767 Leigh: Thanks, you too, Raph. 00:34:01.090 --> 00:34:01.570 Raphaël: See ya. 00:34:01.570 --> 00:34:02.170 Folks. 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:05.930 That was my chat, my interview with Leigh Sembaluk. 00:34:05.950 --> 00:34:07.240 Like I had so much fun. 00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:10.450 I feel like I learned so many things that I did not know about Leigh. 00:34:10.780 --> 00:34:11.950 It was, yeah. 00:34:12.010 --> 00:34:12.790 I just love it. 00:34:12.790 --> 00:34:16.776 It's also just really neat to hear about that career trajectory and 00:34:16.776 --> 00:34:20.316 the things that you can sort of move from one industry to another. 00:34:20.686 --> 00:34:25.066 And how that sparks ideas and learnings and yeah. 00:34:25.096 --> 00:34:30.736 Going from pro soccer to coaching, to hardware tech to software tech. 00:34:31.066 --> 00:34:31.816 Super cool. 00:34:31.816 --> 00:34:36.706 If you want to find out more about what Leigh is building, you can head over to 00:34:36.706 --> 00:34:40.426 proinstinctapp.com to check out the app. 00:34:40.426 --> 00:34:44.566 If you want to get a sense about preception as a company, you 00:34:44.566 --> 00:34:47.056 can head over to preception.io. 00:34:47.086 --> 00:34:48.436 Yeah check out the Pro Instinct app. 00:34:48.466 --> 00:34:49.216 It's super cool. 00:34:49.216 --> 00:34:53.866 And if you know some youth who are part of a club that could use some 00:34:53.896 --> 00:34:56.296 cool training technology, check it out. 00:34:56.476 --> 00:34:57.016 It's awesome. 00:34:57.016 --> 00:34:59.446 Also, if you enjoyed the podcast. 00:34:59.446 --> 00:35:00.826 And you are not yet subscribed. 00:35:00.886 --> 00:35:04.246 Head over to small tech podcast.com. 00:35:04.666 --> 00:35:08.776 Uh, you will find all of the links to all of the apps there where 00:35:08.776 --> 00:35:10.636 you can subscribe to the podcast. 00:35:10.846 --> 00:35:14.716 If you are watching on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and the 00:35:14.716 --> 00:35:16.936 little bell and all of that stuff. 00:35:17.116 --> 00:35:20.236 Uh, so that you get notified about the next episode. 00:35:20.236 --> 00:35:22.756 If you have any feedback, we'd love reviews. 00:35:22.936 --> 00:35:27.116 You can shoot us an email hello@smalltechpodcast.com. 00:35:27.136 --> 00:35:30.196 And let us know if you want to be our next guest. 00:35:30.226 --> 00:35:31.426 We'd love to interview you. 00:35:31.426 --> 00:35:34.006 If you're building some cool tech and you're having a positive 00:35:34.006 --> 00:35:36.826 impact in the world, we'd love to have you on the podcast. 00:35:36.826 --> 00:35:40.066 If you are building a product, a digital product. 00:35:40.096 --> 00:35:43.816 A tech platform, something along those lines, we would also love to 00:35:43.816 --> 00:35:45.526 collaborate with you or work with you. 00:35:45.526 --> 00:35:48.046 If you need any help, if you need any advice. 00:35:48.046 --> 00:35:53.886 Just head over to go love to chat with you and learn more about what you're building. 00:35:53.886 --> 00:35:55.896 And maybe there's some way for us to collaborate. 00:35:55.896 --> 00:35:58.656 In the meantime, we all want to do something good in the world. 00:35:58.716 --> 00:36:01.386 So go out there and build something. 00:36:01.416 --> 00:36:02.196 Good folks. 00:36:02.196 --> 00:36:04.326 I will see you in the next one. 00:36:04.566 --> 00:36:05.166 See ya.