Leigh: It's so much more efficient and quicker if I don't pretend that I have all
the answers right away and just say, Hey, you're smarter than me let me listen to
you in this realm and then go to somebody else and say, Hey, you're smarter than
me or that other person in this realm.
First thing, avoid hardware at all costs can't like that.
That is one of the lessons.
RaphaÃ«l: Aren't you also working on another hardware
Leigh: yes, but and maybe I'll explain that.
If you can't avoid building hardware,
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah,
Leigh: it actually proves that your hardware is necessary.
RaphaÃ«l: yeah.
Leigh: Which is a good place to be, because it takes so long
and every expense just builds up
changing one line of code, you can run it right away.
Changing a sensor or a chip it's weeks to get it manufactured and sent over, and
then that may not fix something, right?
And of course there's burn rate for everything else going on
Thronmax MDrill One Pro & USB Video: Hey folks.
And welcome to this latest episode of the small tech podcast.
I am Raph the co-founder of EC, the digital product studio, building
technology for a more sustainable future.
And today we have another awesome guest.
He is the founder and CEO of Preception.
He's also a friend of mine and someone that I've known for almost a decade.
I think.
I always find it really fun to chat with him about what he's doing about sport,
about the technology that he's building.
He's always such a positive.
Positive person who really makes you just want to go out and build
something And feel good about what you're creating about building a
startup about building a product.
He's also done a lot of really neat stuff in his career.
And it's just really cool to, to dig into that and learn more about his career
trajectory, his path as an entrepreneur.
How all of these things sort of came together.
I really enjoyed this chat.
I love these conversations where I talk to people that I already know quite well.
Because I get to learn all kinds of things that I did not know about them.
When we're doing it in the context of like an interview and chatting about.
Their journey.
Really hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did.
This is my chat with Leigh Sembaluk.
, RaphaÃ«l: Hey Leigh,
Leigh: Raph.
RaphaÃ«l: How's it going?
As if we weren't just talking right before this.
Leigh: know, I know.
It's it's all for the show.
I'll do whatever's needed.
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah, I'm gonna dive right into this and just kind of ask you,
uh, A, well, first off, what's, what is Preception and what is Pro Instinct?
I
Leigh: Preception is the company that I started and ProInstinct is the
first product is probably the best way of just separating those two.
Preception, what we do is we train and measure spatial awareness,
decision making, speed of thought in athletes, starting with soccer.
I'll say football, because that's, um And that's, you know, what
I usually say, um, first and
RaphaÃ«l: was very surprised to hear the S
Leigh: yeah, I know, I know, you know, you got to cater to all audiences,
Raph, um, but yeah, basically it's based off all the things that were deemed
like impossible to train and measure.
And I didn't like that as an answer.
And, you know, tech is meant to solve problems.
So that's where we started, what we do, and what we're capable of doing.
awesome
RaphaÃ«l: And Pro Instinct is within that.
It's a mobile app.
Leigh: Yeah.
So speaking about pivots, during COVID, uh, hardware and access to teams was
a real problem for obvious reasons.
So, we decided, well, you know, since teams aren't competing and athletes
aren't working with one another, and I would argue spatial awareness
really went down during Covid because.
Everything was in front of a person on a screen, walking down the street you
don't have to dodge anybody because they moved to the other side of the street.
So we decided, well, if we go software only and use a cell phone as stimulus and
as a training platform whats' possible And that's where was born out of actually the
exact moment that I remember having that was, driving down Denman street and I was
in the right lane of two lanes and there was a woman just walking down the sidewalk
RaphaÃ«l: yeah,
Leigh: uh, goes to avoid somebody in front to keep social distancing,
but just like walks onto the street
RaphaÃ«l: yeah,
Leigh: steps there and her purse like hits my side view mirror.
But had no idea I was there or moving and you know she's
fine, but it was just, it was that moment of like, oh this And, uh,
I think that this person in front of me is more important and don't
even look to see or hear a car or anything out there, pay attention,
they're, you know, on the street and jumping onto a street and a lane.
And it was just, it was one of those moments where I was like, yeah, we,
we really need to start working on increasing spatial awareness again.
And.
You know, it was a big moment of like, I need to make this
change now and get better.
RaphaÃ«l: Yep.
Yeah.
Wild.
So actually with all of that why did you start this company?
Who are you?
Where did you come from?
Just, just appeared out of nowhere and just kind of like, all right,
I'm going to start this company.
Leigh: yeah.
And, and I'll say, I really didn't want to start a tech company.
Like,
I, I didn't.
Um,
RaphaÃ«l: That's so funny to
Leigh: in many ways, I tried to do everything possible to avoid it because
my background was as a footballer.
Like that's, that's what I've done since I was four and then went to university
and I got a degree, but that was just so that I could play football and,
and, signed pro after that in New York and got injured and then coached full
time with Vancouver Whitecaps and SFU.
And my job was to make pro athletes happy and on the field and you know like so
pretty much as far away from Tech as possible where I'm just I'm a coach
working with athletes in a ball, and yeah, there's tech involved, but what my
background is luckily for me I know enough about tech because my dad was involved in
computers and my brother is a solutions architect at IBM and stuff, so there's
like, I have some knowledge through family
RaphaÃ«l: You could throw some ideas around and hope to get some half decent feedback.
Leigh: yeah.
And family can't ignore me when I'm asking for good advice.
Right.
So, uh, it's, you know, it's, it's built in from birth.
So, um, so luckily I had some advice and just grew up around computers and stuff.
But why I started And the company and got into tech was at one point I was
doing exit interviews with players and just discussing like your spatial
awareness isn't where we need it to be.
Your decision making is a little bit too slow and, you know, like
it, it's just the reality was those things weren't good enough.
I mean, they were technically good, good athletes, like is kind
of the, the best of the young athletes that are available always,
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: and.
And one of them said, well, what do I do?
And I gave them some, I'll say BS answer to, uh, make it, you know,
make it correct for the podcast.
But the reality was like, you just need to get better at it.
And the only real way is by.
Being in a good competitive environment like ours, but they've been there for
a few years, haven't really added it.
And we're sending them back into kind of like the, amateur environment
knowing that probably will get better.
So that bothered me because it's like, I'm just giving answers
that I don't believe in, but I can't say, sorry, you're screwed.
Like, I don't know.
, So, my best friend is on his way to being a neuroscientist.
So we had some conversations.
He, he put me in touches with, uh, like some cognitive science professors
at SFU and we started discussions and the consensus was it's a skill
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: And I was like, great , I agree.
Right.
Because I've had it, other people have had it.
Um, and that's what we, we look for.
Right.
And I said, well, can it be taught?
And he goes, well, in theory, yes.
And can it be measured?
Same thing, like in theory, yes.
And I'm like, but in reality, right.
Cause in theory we can visit neighboring galaxies and things.
Right.
You know, right now, and the answer was like, you know, I've
never seen a way of doing that.
So, I was kind of at this point of, well, that's my job and what I want
to do and want to improve players.
But, the most important things to me, to their success in my opinion.
We can't train.
We can't measure as coaches even the discussion is like, Hey Raph, I think
this player's, uh, you know, spatial awareness isn't where it needs to be.
You're like, Hey Leigh, I think it is.
And then we kind of just say, Okay.
like, you know, oh, I think they make decisions too slow.
I don't, okay.
Like, you know, there's nothing to go off of where, you know,
speed, strength, technical ability, there's metrics for everything.
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: So yeah, for me I thought, well, okay, let's, let's start from zero.
Cause that's what it was.
So like developing methodology how would we train this and came up with a way of
training it using existing hardware that was okay and got us to a level of proving
things and launch that as a consulting company and it failed because the hardware
sucked and wasn't made for purpose it was too bright outside and sensors would
start triggering it's like okay this doesn't work so for now, so you know one
of those moment where I either turn and go back to being a coach just make peace
with it or build something for a purpose
RaphaÃ«l: yeah.
Leigh: What's possible if we actually build something that can measure these
things that is made to work on field with teams as they already train with like
all this and, and saw the possibilities and that it went way beyond just football
and to other sports to potential like policing and, and training that way
and military and it's like, well, that.
You know, there's a, there's a lot of room for growth in all these things.
And the, and the outcomes were in terms of performance, like mind blowingly good.
So that's when I decided to start a company and I really wasn't excited about
it but I remember talking to somebody.
Uh, it was more of like a advisor, mentor, it might've been at Launch Academy,
but, uh, they basically said, like, when you have, like, every reason to not
do it, but you still can't let it go,
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: like, that, that's a good place to start from, because you kind of need
some of that as a founder of just, like, it doesn't make sense, but I
just, I just Like solving this problem is bigger than whatever problems in
front of me or reasons to turn back.
So,
RaphaÃ«l: Yep.
Leigh: that's my long winded story of
RaphaÃ«l: I love
Leigh: how I got to where I was.
RaphaÃ«l: Got dragged kicking and screaming into the tech world and then
was kind of like, oh, I kind of have to.
Leigh: It was, it was equal parts that and excitement of
like, okay I really want this
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: And I know other people do too, right?
And the main thing is like we were constantly failing players
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: them to have things that they might even have it.
And we can't even, we can't even identify it and agree up on it
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: you know, like track and field, you know, exactly how fast somebody
is, like it's, you know, it's easy.
So, yeah.
You know, that part excited me too.
And it was like, okay, we actually can give players the opportunities
that they've earned and deserved.
And, you know, um allow us to see what their potential really is
versus, you know, what just in our minds we've made up about them.
And we also have biases.
We validate our own.
You know, first perspectives of players.
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: So that was the other thing first impressions are important
and if it's one that they're not aware of, that sticks in our mind.
If it's one where they made a great turn, it's like, wow.
They keep validating that and then neither of them is necessarily based in fact.
So,
RaphaÃ«l: Yep.
Leigh: so that's, that's the stuff has kept me going all these years.
RaphaÃ«l: Cool.
I, yeah, I love it.
I'm kind of curious with all of that, and Preception as a company that builds
hardware and ProInstinct as a product that is software I feel like I've heard
you get pretty enthusiastic about youth sport and we did some work together
on some Pro Instinct stuff last year.
And I'm kind of curious how youth specifically and encouraging youth
sport, fits into all of this.
Leigh: Yeah, so the hardware side is, has uses for youth sport absolutely
and, and will tie in and, but it's just because of price points and
everything is, is, a lot higher.
And, and we're also, um, you know, the hardware is still in R&D, even
though we've made really good progress and hit some milestones there.
But for your question for youth sport, it was part of the reason why
ProInstinct came about, I'll say just access to sport to training to to
basically start eliminating barriers.
Was the main reason.
Because nowadays almost everyone has a cell phone.
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: we've even made everything so that the cell phone someone has can be.
Five, 10 years old and it still runs fine.
And apps can be super cheap and just build, like we,
we have it where it's just.
And this is built into what clubs or organizations already provide.
And even then, if it's too expensive for certain ones, you
can give it as discounts or free.
Like, we, we really the whole point is eliminating barriers.
And
RaphaÃ«l: I love it.
Leigh: we even did a partnership.
To do a bit of a launch with the North American Indigenous Games that was
generously funded by Canadian Tire's Jumpstart program, um, who I've been
extremely impressed with, and have a lot of respect for the stuff they do.
And yeah, they were just a joy to work with and we're looking at more.
With something like the North American Indigenous Games.
It's athletes from literally all areas of Canada.
Into the US as well where access to training is sometimes hours away
for club teams for other things.
So that was part of the aim is just, let's get, really good training, even
if someone's training on their own.
That's almost impossible to have any sort of spatial awareness and
quick decision making on whether space or opportunities are around us.
So it was a ways of taking things that weren't even being trained at MLS
Academy and NCAA University levels and saying, here, anyone, anyone can
have this for free or covered through donations and foundations to any use club.
When it comes back to just everyone being able to have the chance to start realizing
potential in the ways that they want to.
And if that's sport then great, we're happy to be there.
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Awesome.
Your journey little Leigh, what would, uh, would Little Leigh have
benefited from, from this app?
I'm sure, of course, but, um, yeah, do you want to talk a little bit
about your journey as a young athlete?
Leigh: so, absolutely I would have benefited from it.
I also had, you know, maybe a built in version of this that I don't
recommend, but I always was playing about four or five years up, and
I mean, Raph, you know me, but I'm like five foot seven on a good day.
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Leigh: always playing against kids that were like three, four years older.
I was playing in the men's league in Saskatchewan when I was 15.
So like, I would just get kicked.
And by people that would be upset, there's a little kid that's doing okay in a game.
And I had more of just, Everyone was faster than me, everyone was stronger,
um, and I would just get fouled a lot, so I had to constantly be looking around,
and if I was taking one too many touches, I would know because I would feel it.
So, I'm not suggesting that's what other people do but, um, yeah, the
amount of times that I had ice and things after games was huge, but, you
know, the benefit was really When I was and became, you know, a fully grown
adult, I now didn't have any of those disadvantages, but had such good awareness
RaphaÃ«l: gonna say you don't recommend it, but it doesn't hurt.
But it does hurt.
Leigh: it, it,
RaphaÃ«l: doesn't hurt.
Leigh: It's less painful using an application.
We haven't built out the hardware to just put in a slide tackle, when
you take too long to see something.
It's, it's a few, few generations down the lawyers have some problems with it.
So, we'll see when it gets released, but, um, you know, it's, it's been
pushed off a few times, despite my best efforts at getting it through.
RaphaÃ«l: actually, I'm kind of curious, because with your background, and I love
this about like talking to people who didn't come from like tech, who came
from somewhere else, like Stepping into tech world and like learning how product
development, but even actually, so for you, you went from not tech to hardware,
which I feel like is a whole other like can of worms and then into software,
which is also just very different.
Like what are some things that you learned going through
all of these transitions?
cause I feel like it sounds a bit like a lot of whiplash.
Leigh: Yeah.
First thing, avoid hardware at all costs.
can't like that.
That is one of the lessons.
Um,
RaphaÃ«l: Aren't you also working on another hardware
Leigh: yes, but, so, and maybe I'll explain that.
If you can't avoid building hardware,
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah,
Leigh: it actually proves that your hardware is necessary.
RaphaÃ«l: yeah.
Leigh: is, which is a good place to be, because it takes so long
and Every expense just builds up because, you know, changing one line
of code, you can run it right away.
Changing a sensor or a chip or something on a board, that's
RaphaÃ«l: You can't one click deploy
Leigh: Yeah, it's weeks to get it manufactured and sent over, and then
that may not fix something, right?
And of course there's burn rate for everything else going
on, even if that stops it.
And also hardware is often like, let's get the hardware we think can get us the data
or do the thing that we think it can do to get the insights we think we can get.
Like, you know, but the upfront cost is just big for that, right?
So that's probably my first lesson I think it's a really good barrier because if you
need it, then that also means any problem you're solving also needs that hardware,
RaphaÃ«l: yeah,
Leigh: Whereas software, is way easier, but it can also be replaced a lot easier
if someone else can come along and there's not really patents and moats for software.
It's easier to get in, but also easier for anyone else to get in.
There's probably two lessons that are tied of me being non tech and getting in.
And one is, how genuinely helpful the tech community has been.
I've noticed almost every founder I've talked to has some bit of humility
because we've all failed in so many different ways that it's like Hey,
if I can help, let me help or give advice or connect you with somebody,
because it's the only real reason that person's still around is because
they've had all this help along the way.
Um, and I've seen that not just in Vancouver, but a lot of other places.
RaphaÃ«l: yeah,
Leigh: it's pretty easy which ones aren't willing to help,
RaphaÃ«l: mm
Leigh: that's okay too, but it's like, it's just, it's night and
day, and we don't need to be friends with everybody either.
RaphaÃ«l: yeah, mm
Leigh: So that was probably the first thing, and then the second thing
was I feel I have had an advantage because I didn't come in thinking
I really knew how to do things.
Which, made it easier because I just had to synthesize a bunch of really
good information and advice and more say I'm not going to take this
because this doesn't apply to us.
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: opposed to, I'll say often, and I've seen this actually as
I've gone on further, there's times where I just think I have
the right answer and the right way of doing things and the first thing someone
has to do is convince me that my way isn't the best way which takes time
and then introduce the new way of like, that was probably the other really good
lesson is it's so much more efficient and easy and quicker and takes less
time if I don't pretend that I have all the answers right away and can
just say, Hey, you're smarter than me.
Let me listen to you in this realm and then go to somebody else and
say, Hey, you're smarter than me or that other person in this realm.
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: And, and, uh, yeah, so,
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
It's awesome to have.
I, I feel like I appreciate that so much, both about, like the, the
community that I was in, the startup community that I was in before
in Halifax and here in Vancouver.
Like there's just so many people who are willing to sort of share.
And if you're open to it, like there's, yeah, there's so many
people who are willing to help.
And yeah, if you stay open then it's just so much easier.
Yeah.
Leigh: also often smartest people and the ones that know what
they're doing don't act like it.
So like, it's nice to not over estimate or underestimate people.
It's just ask a question because there's some brilliant people
that I was like, Oh, I, you know, I've talked to you maybe once.
And they're a little bit shy or socially awkward or whatever, but like the advice
and when they do decide to speak, it's like, it's really worth listening to.
So I also like that, you know, say sport gets a reputation for big,
strong, loud, fast, confidence all this, and that's fine.
And that's generally what thrives, where tech kind of, I'll say equalizes
a lot of that, uh, in my opinion, too.
So, so,
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: knew where the key pieces of advice were coming from.
And that might just be me.
Yeah, I've seen you around a couple times, like, what do you do?
And, you know, so it's, yeah, it's been awesome that way.
RaphaÃ«l: Are there any, like, things that you think really helped
you coming from sport, coming from being an athlete, to tech?
Like you run your team in a particular way because you come
from sport or, I don't know, like, anything like that that you think,
Leigh: I get out the tactics board and draw the X's and circles and lines.
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah, little whiteboard markers, and, yep.
Leigh: Maybe I'll start from the coaching side first, because
I feel in many ways, coaching is like the evolution into.
You know, dropping the ego because we're a bit older and washed up, but still,
like, you know, it's kind of like, it's not, it's not about us anymore, or I'll
say when coaching is done properly.
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: so the, the big lesson I learned there was I was the only
like heavily involved person that couldn't actually play the game,
RaphaÃ«l: Okay.
Leigh: so it was all about making sure everyone else involved
can thrive That's what it was.
So when it comes from me and tech and also without me being a hardware
engineer or anything like this, right?
It was very much, my job is to help somebody else be their best.
Right, so that, that was a really big lesson for me, because there, you know,
everyone else that I work with, for most of it is the one really doing the
hands on work, so that was probably one of the biggest lessons, um, but
then from, from the player side I'll go with two, and one is actually, it's
also aimed at a criticism of tech in general, but as an athlete, it's really
clear of understanding like how much energy we put into something and also
resting and taking care of ourselves.
And throughout a week, if it's like every day we're training as hard as we can,
you just fail, because there's no energy for a game, or when it matters, and such.
The one thing that I really have tried to instill and understand is like,
running a company is one grueling season.
And
I see tech so often of just like push through, grind, stay up late, do all this.
And I just see people burning out.
Where for me, it's more of there's some days where I'm just on a
roll and have tons of energy.
You know?
I'll be doing work till eight, nine at night, and that's fine.
And then there's other days that I'll just come to like one or two
o'clock and look and see my schedule and be like, I've got nothing else.
I've not been productive, like stop, rest, call it a day,
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: come back tomorrow actually fresh, uh, instead of just I'll say,
falling flat and such for days to come.
I think that's one of the big lessons is actually being able to check in
and be like, how am I doing today?
Like, what's my energy like?
As an example, if I am coming to a podcast.
And, just like, oh, it's just another grind.
Why even do it, right?
So, um, that's one of the lessons, and then I think the other one is just,
as an athlete I think there's, with team sports, I'll say there's a good
understanding of our role is to do everything we can to compete and win.
RaphaÃ«l: Mm-Hmm.
Leigh: And, in a sport like football, that doesn't always happen.
RaphaÃ«l: Yeah.
Leigh: sometimes it's just like, yeah, this game, we weren't
gonna win, they were too good.
It's almost like a test of just, how good am I right now?
And then try and be a little bit better the next time.
You know, that it's just like, yeah, there's so many different factors,
so many things that, that can change.
And like that willingness to constantly just battle and then.
They're like, okay, I , did my best,
RaphaÃ«l: Yep.
Leigh: and we won, great, celebrate, be happy.
We lost be pissed off and disappointed, but I'll be back on the field
tomorrow and you know just continue.
So I think that's the other thing that is like that, I'll say that resilience and
kind of just going with the punches and having that Yeah , it's not a confidence.
It's just more of a, just a solidity of just like, this is who I am.
This is what I do.
And, now that's as a tech and tech founder, and we get beat up a lot
and we have a lot of losses and wins, but that's just the way it is.
RaphaÃ«l: Just keep
going.
Cool.
Well, thank you so much, Leigh this was really fun.
and I feel like I learned a lot, about you, about the, the stuff that you do.
Um, and I'm curious if you have a small tech product to plug,
since this is podcast after all.
Leigh: I know, and the, thing that I'm going to plug in, and I mean,
it kind of ties in in multiple ways, but first of all, I'm in football
withdrawal, um, sitting at the
RaphaÃ«l: Okay.
Leigh: all the time, so the, uh, the small tech, thing I'm actually
going to plug is, a friend's.
This game that he made it was made by Gabe Karkanis, who we actually both know,
but he developed a game called Pocket FC.
And
it's, uh, you know, it's a, it's a free to play game that's either for mobile
or web, it's kind of like the best blend of playing like fantasy football with
friends where you do drafts and compete against each other and like, games are
matched up and a football manager game.
So you own a team and then matches are just kind of set throughout the season so
they happen generally about twice a day.
RaphaÃ«l: Okay.
Leigh: it's, you actually get to compete with friends in a league
and buy players and sell players and set formations and do all that.
I mean this in the best of ways, like it's, it's the crappy overhead view of
dots walking, going around the and just watch like a quick three minute game,
um, which is, which is fun because it's just, you get to see them play out what
you have and see the, the winner loss.
And but the reason it's actually made my life better is because it's kind
of like it takes five or ten minutes a day and you just sit down and be like,
how did my team do, set the formation, and that can be it for the next game,
but it's turned into a way of, like, having a nice little break that allows
you to, you know, You know, it can't get lost into because there's nothing
to do after that five or 10 minutes.
And I just wait till, you know, here it's 3am and 3pm are the games.
So I just wake up, see how I did, set it at lunch.
Then that's, you know, kind of all I need to do.
But it's like that way of injecting just a little bit of joy and a bit of a break.
And also a way of I, my team's in the, in the MLS league, and so is Gabe and a
few other people we know, so it's just a way of, you know, You know, a little
bit of trash talking or actually being like, yeah, you were good that day.
So anyway, it's just, you know, it's a, it's a fun way to build that little bit
of, of connection and smiling and joy and whatever it to, you know, into the day.
Some people meditate, some people do go do all these other things for me.
That's just like a little way of.
Throwing that in.
So, yeah, PI wanna make sure I get it proper I think it's pocketfc.com.
So,
RaphaÃ«l: Awesome.
Cool.
We'll link to it in the show notes as
well.
Leigh: and, and if you join the MLS, I'm, uh, Montreal fc, and, and
currently in second, I think I'm gonna lose the league this time.
But, uh,
RaphaÃ«l: Oh
no, who's winning?
Leigh: it's actually Gabe's partner, Seattle.
RaphaÃ«l: I
think there might be some, that, that sounds like collusion to me.
Someone's got access to the back end
Leigh: Yeah, yeah, I, I don't, I think if that was the case, Gabe would be, Gabe
would be doing a little better, but, uh, yeah, no, it's, yeah, it's just, it's a
lot of, it's a lot of fun, so, you know,
I think we might see you on there soon, Raph, too, as
RaphaÃ«l: Yep.
Awesome.
Cool.
Well, thanks so much, Leigh.
Um,
Leigh: having me on, it's been fun.
RaphaÃ«l: yeah.
Alrighty.
Well, have a good, uh, good rest of your day.
Leigh: Thanks, you too, Raph.
RaphaÃ«l: See ya.
Folks.
That was my chat, my interview with Leigh Sembaluk.
Like I had so much fun.
I feel like I learned so many things that I did not know about Leigh.
It was, yeah.
I just love it.
It's also just really neat to hear about that career trajectory and
the things that you can sort of move from one industry to another.
And how that sparks ideas and learnings and yeah.
Going from pro soccer to coaching, to hardware tech to software tech.
Super cool.
If you want to find out more about what Leigh is building, you can head over to
proinstinctapp.com to check out the app.
If you want to get a sense about preception as a company, you
can head over to preception.io.
Yeah check out the Pro Instinct app.
It's super cool.
And if you know some youth who are part of a club that could use some
cool training technology, check it out.
It's awesome.
Also, if you enjoyed the podcast.
And you are not yet subscribed.
Head over to small tech podcast.com.
Uh, you will find all of the links to all of the apps there where
you can subscribe to the podcast.
If you are watching on YouTube, hit that subscribe button and the
little bell and all of that stuff.
Uh, so that you get notified about the next episode.
If you have any feedback, we'd love reviews.
You can shoot us an email hello@smalltechpodcast.com.
And let us know if you want to be our next guest.
We'd love to interview you.
If you're building some cool tech and you're having a positive
impact in the world, we'd love to have you on the podcast.
If you are building a product, a digital product.
A tech platform, something along those lines, we would also love to
collaborate with you or work with you.
If you need any help, if you need any advice.
Just head over to go love to chat with you and learn more about what you're building.
And maybe there's some way for us to collaborate.
In the meantime, we all want to do something good in the world.
So go out there and build something.
Good folks.
I will see you in the next one.
See ya.