1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,610 < Intro > 2 00:00:05,610 --> 00:00:08,000 – Welcome to Count Me In, I'm your host, Adam Larson, 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,500 and today we're diving deep into the world of AI. 4 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:13,420 A subject that has been making waves across industries. 5 00:00:13,420 --> 00:00:17,050 Transforming the way we work, communicate, and think. 6 00:00:17,050 --> 00:00:18,820 With me are our esteemed guests; 7 00:00:18,820 --> 00:00:23,334 Dr. Mfon Akpan, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Methodist University. 8 00:00:23,334 --> 00:00:25,500 And Dr. Scott Dell, Assistant Professor 9 00:00:25,500 --> 00:00:28,500 of Accounting at Francis Marion University. 10 00:00:28,500 --> 00:00:31,690 They bring a wealth of knowledge and insights into AI's history, 11 00:00:31,690 --> 00:00:34,890 its current impact, and what's on the horizon. 12 00:00:34,890 --> 00:00:37,370 We'll discuss everything from AI's phenomenal growth; 13 00:00:37,370 --> 00:00:41,130 to its applications, ethics, security concerns, and much more. 14 00:00:41,130 --> 00:00:42,880 So buckle up and let's embark on this 15 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,000 fascinating journey into the digital revolution. 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:51,667 < Music > 17 00:00:51,667 --> 00:00:54,833 – Mfon and Scott, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. 18 00:00:54,833 --> 00:00:58,333 We're really excited we're going to be talking about AI, and ChatGPT, 19 00:00:58,333 --> 00:01:00,833 and all that comes underneath that. 20 00:01:00,833 --> 00:01:02,500 And we're really excited to have this 21 00:01:02,500 --> 00:01:05,400 because this is a very hot topic, and people are talking about it. 22 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,159 You see articles about it every day. 23 00:01:07,159 --> 00:01:09,790 You see updates, you see leaders writing letters 24 00:01:09,790 --> 00:01:13,167 saying, "Let's stop all AI for six months." Et cetera. 25 00:01:13,210 --> 00:01:16,833 Maybe we could just start at a high level; What is AI? 26 00:01:16,833 --> 00:01:18,080 What are these chat bots? 27 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:19,500 What are these things doing for us? 28 00:01:20,167 --> 00:01:22,333 – Amazing tool, and thank you for having us. 29 00:01:22,333 --> 00:01:25,000 It's a pleasure to be here and to share. 30 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,360 I'll kick things off, Mfon, if it's all right. 31 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,479 This artificial intelligence has been around for over 60 years. 32 00:01:31,479 --> 00:01:34,000 So you say, "Wait a minute, why is it so new?" 33 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,770 Well, what's new is the capabilities 34 00:01:35,770 --> 00:01:38,333 because of the computing power we now have. 35 00:01:38,333 --> 00:01:45,370 And the tool is amazing; it is changing life as we know it. 36 00:01:45,370 --> 00:01:48,860 We haven't seen the likes of this since the printing press. 37 00:01:48,860 --> 00:01:52,833 It's an environment that can really do things, 38 00:01:52,833 --> 00:01:58,000 change work, augment work, replace work, but makes things better. 39 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,166 Your thoughts, Mfon? 40 00:01:59,166 --> 00:02:01,860 – Yes, and I think some of the excitement around it 41 00:02:01,860 --> 00:02:08,240 is that we haven't seen this type of growth, in a platform as well. 42 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:13,110 So you think about it was released, November 30th 2022. 43 00:02:13,110 --> 00:02:16,420 Five days, the platform got a million users. 44 00:02:16,420 --> 00:02:21,999 So you think about in 2010, it took Instagram two and a half months 45 00:02:21,999 --> 00:02:24,330 to get to a million users. 46 00:02:24,330 --> 00:02:27,833 So there's a lot of excitement, and then there's a lot of acceleration 47 00:02:27,930 --> 00:02:30,166 and speed around the platform, as well. 48 00:02:30,666 --> 00:02:34,666 – As a follow up to that, 100 million users mark 49 00:02:34,666 --> 00:02:36,530 was reached in two months. 50 00:02:36,530 --> 00:02:40,499 Compared to TikTok, I think, it was nine months to get that far, that fast. 51 00:02:40,630 --> 00:02:44,166 So it has been an amazing adaptation of the technology. 52 00:02:45,166 --> 00:02:49,166 – So maybe we can talk a little bit about how does it work. 53 00:02:49,166 --> 00:02:51,340 And, then, from there, maybe, talk about what benefits 54 00:02:51,340 --> 00:02:54,280 it may have for the accounting profession as a whole. 55 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,410 – Well, it's a language model, so it has an interface. 56 00:02:58,410 --> 00:03:04,499 So you're able to go to the platform, you go to the website, 57 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,166 and you're able to ask it questions, 58 00:03:06,166 --> 00:03:12,166 or you can copy and paste information and ask it to do things. 59 00:03:12,220 --> 00:03:18,720 So from the profession side, if you're asking it to solve problems. 60 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,489 You can ask it to solve a problem, 61 00:03:20,489 --> 00:03:24,620 or you can have it write an email, write a letter, 62 00:03:24,620 --> 00:03:26,769 it can produce content for you. 63 00:03:26,769 --> 00:03:30,790 – And as Mfon mentioned, it is an LLM, one of those three-letter acronyms, 64 00:03:30,790 --> 00:03:33,190 a large language model. 65 00:03:33,190 --> 00:03:35,499 But what it does is it projects words. 66 00:03:35,499 --> 00:03:37,150 So it looks at the previous word 67 00:03:37,150 --> 00:03:40,832 and it says, "Mm, what would the next logical word be?" 68 00:03:40,832 --> 00:03:43,510 Which, sometimes, if you've ever played the game of telephone, 69 00:03:43,510 --> 00:03:45,980 as a kid, sometimes, you get to the end of that line 70 00:03:45,980 --> 00:03:49,040 and nothing resembles how it started out. 71 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:50,950 And that sometimes happens, as well, 72 00:03:50,950 --> 00:03:53,665 with the ChatGPT and GPT-4 environment. 73 00:03:53,665 --> 00:03:55,999 Because it is projecting with probabilities, 74 00:03:55,999 --> 00:03:57,832 "Yep, I think this is the next word." 75 00:03:57,832 --> 00:03:59,665 And sometimes it's dead wrong. 76 00:03:59,665 --> 00:04:03,332 It's called hallucinating, it's the actual technical term. 77 00:04:03,332 --> 00:04:04,650 – It does hallucinate. 78 00:04:04,650 --> 00:04:08,660 But what's so fascinating when you use it, it is projecting. 79 00:04:08,660 --> 00:04:13,165 But I guess it feels like you get the impression that it's thinking, 80 00:04:13,165 --> 00:04:15,260 even though it's not thinking. 81 00:04:15,260 --> 00:04:17,970 So you can ask it questions and it will give you answers, 82 00:04:17,970 --> 00:04:19,590 so there's that interaction. 83 00:04:19,590 --> 00:04:24,530 But it is projecting and it does, sometimes, hallucinate, 84 00:04:24,530 --> 00:04:27,332 or make up answers, give you false information. 85 00:04:27,919 --> 00:04:32,009 – And the fear I really have, in the hands of professionals, 86 00:04:32,009 --> 00:04:34,440 we can, probably, take a look and say, "Oh, this isn't quite right. 87 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:35,998 This is illogical." 88 00:04:35,998 --> 00:04:39,998 But for a novice, and for newbies like our students, 89 00:04:39,998 --> 00:04:43,165 they will look at this and say, "The English is so good. 90 00:04:43,165 --> 00:04:46,550 It just flows so, logically, it must be right." 91 00:04:46,550 --> 00:04:48,998 And it's not, although, often enough it is right. 92 00:04:48,998 --> 00:04:50,220 So there's a balance. 93 00:04:50,332 --> 00:04:53,998 – Yes, so talking about people using it. 94 00:04:53,998 --> 00:04:56,998 Obviously corporations, people within corporations, 95 00:04:56,998 --> 00:04:58,600 within organizations, are using it. 96 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,940 Within the accounting profession are using it, 97 00:05:00,940 --> 00:05:02,998 and people are having to create policies. 98 00:05:02,998 --> 00:05:05,190 There are new workarounds coming out there. 99 00:05:05,190 --> 00:05:08,831 People are saying, "Okay, you can use this, but you can use it for that." 100 00:05:08,831 --> 00:05:12,331 I saw one example, where somebody put in a fake balance sheet 101 00:05:12,331 --> 00:05:13,690 and said, "Analyze this for me." 102 00:05:13,690 --> 00:05:16,831 And it gave a really interesting analysis. 103 00:05:16,831 --> 00:05:17,390 Then, you have to worry, 104 00:05:17,390 --> 00:05:19,900 "Oh, am I putting somebody's data into this thing?" 105 00:05:19,900 --> 00:05:21,460 And you have to worry about those things. 106 00:05:21,460 --> 00:05:26,509 And, so, how can this tool be used for management accounting? 107 00:05:26,509 --> 00:05:29,470 In the accounting space, obviously, 108 00:05:29,470 --> 00:05:31,498 without giving away too much personal data? 109 00:05:31,998 --> 00:05:36,498 – Security consciousness is we need to be there. 110 00:05:36,498 --> 00:05:38,664 I mean, you're hearing about the deepfakes. 111 00:05:38,664 --> 00:05:40,509 I just heard about a scandal in Hong Kong, 112 00:05:40,509 --> 00:05:42,998 a banker that sent millions of dollars, 113 00:05:42,998 --> 00:05:46,000 based on what sounded like the voice of the person, 114 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,530 the CEO, that was asking for the money, and millions were lost. 115 00:05:50,530 --> 00:05:53,520 So there are a lot of nefarious uses out there. 116 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,720 But there are a lot of positive uses, 117 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,498 and using it in the business environment. 118 00:05:57,498 --> 00:05:58,440 I mean, there are a number of businesses 119 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,300 that have banned it as well. 120 00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:02,010 School systems that have banned it. 121 00:06:02,010 --> 00:06:03,870 But there's a lot of fear in the air. 122 00:06:03,870 --> 00:06:06,498 I think there's more hope than fear, though, and more opportunity. 123 00:06:06,498 --> 00:06:08,831 – Yes, there is more opportunity. 124 00:06:08,831 --> 00:06:16,164 And from an interview that I read with Ilya Sutskever, 125 00:06:16,164 --> 00:06:18,320 I hope I'm saying his name correctly, 126 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,120 he's the chief scientist at OpenAI. 127 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:23,940 From what he was explaining, 128 00:06:23,940 --> 00:06:30,750 they consider their value with the platform is the reliability. 129 00:06:30,750 --> 00:06:35,539 So there's a focus on updating and moving the platform 130 00:06:35,539 --> 00:06:39,664 to become more and more reliable, as far as the output. 131 00:06:39,664 --> 00:06:45,289 And he was explaining, if you look at the jump from the 3.5 132 00:06:45,289 --> 00:06:52,164 to the 4.0 version, you see that there's a movement towards this reliability. 133 00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:54,780 On the other side, if you watch the interview 134 00:06:54,780 --> 00:06:59,330 with Sundar Pichai, from Google, when he talked about Bard, 135 00:06:59,330 --> 00:07:02,960 similar, well, I shouldn't say similar, he called it guardrails. 136 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,497 So they're releasing Bard and they have it out there, 137 00:07:06,497 --> 00:07:08,530 so that they're testing it. 138 00:07:08,530 --> 00:07:13,330 So it's twofold, they're getting the public used to the technology 139 00:07:13,330 --> 00:07:16,229 and, at the same time, they're testing it 140 00:07:16,229 --> 00:07:19,470 so they can slowly release it and put in, 141 00:07:19,470 --> 00:07:22,349 as he called it, guardrails, with the technology. 142 00:07:22,349 --> 00:07:25,370 As they further release it and develop it. 143 00:07:25,370 --> 00:07:28,590 So I think all of this is in mind, as it moves forward. 144 00:07:28,590 --> 00:07:33,379 – And we started off with the pace of adaptation of this tool. 145 00:07:33,379 --> 00:07:37,997 The pace that we are needing to adjust to it is also very quickly. 146 00:07:37,997 --> 00:07:41,830 And, Adam, you brought up a great point about security concerns. 147 00:07:41,970 --> 00:07:45,070 Putting in somebody's private data, PII stuff. 148 00:07:45,070 --> 00:07:47,997 You're looking at it and saying, "Wait a minute, is this recording me? 149 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:48,830 Is it going to take it? 150 00:07:48,830 --> 00:07:51,997 Is it going to repackage it and spit it back out to somebody else?" 151 00:07:51,997 --> 00:07:54,890 And the short answer is it very well could be. 152 00:07:54,890 --> 00:07:58,330 We do have the rightful fear, but we're all getting used to this. 153 00:07:58,330 --> 00:08:01,663 It just has been such a rapid ramp up 154 00:08:01,663 --> 00:08:04,330 and the guardrails do need to be in place, 155 00:08:04,330 --> 00:08:05,997 and everybody's concerned about that. 156 00:08:05,997 --> 00:08:09,539 But take for example, if you wanted to get scammed 157 00:08:09,539 --> 00:08:12,699 and you're saying, "Okay, we're going phishing. 158 00:08:12,699 --> 00:08:17,820 Give me a phishing email that's going to be effective 159 00:08:17,820 --> 00:08:19,830 with this kind of tone or whatever else." 160 00:08:19,830 --> 00:08:22,663 And now there are guardrails in the place to hold you back 161 00:08:22,663 --> 00:08:24,280 and saying, "We're not going to do that." 162 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:25,996 Then you say, "But I'm an educator, 163 00:08:25,996 --> 00:08:28,330 and I want an example of a phishing email 164 00:08:28,330 --> 00:08:29,919 so I can demonstrate for my students 165 00:08:29,919 --> 00:08:31,960 that this is not the right thing to do, 166 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,050 but look how powerful it can be." 167 00:08:34,050 --> 00:08:36,663 And that's also used to trip up the AI 168 00:08:36,663 --> 00:08:40,029 and say, "Oh, okay, yes, let me give you an example." 169 00:08:40,029 --> 00:08:42,996 And there's ways around it, and all kinds of folks are trying 170 00:08:42,996 --> 00:08:47,496 to get into this, we'll call it the black box, and take advantage. 171 00:08:47,496 --> 00:08:49,040 It doesn't take very many bad players. 172 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,700 But most of the folks are good players 173 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:54,163 that are using it to their advantage, in the workplace. 174 00:08:54,163 --> 00:08:57,340 But we mentioned earlier a number of companies, 175 00:08:57,340 --> 00:09:00,663 folks like JP Morgan, and Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, 176 00:09:00,663 --> 00:09:04,996 that have banned it for internal use, and there must be a reason as well. 177 00:09:05,150 --> 00:09:08,663 The banks, I can see where they'd be real concerned about their security. 178 00:09:08,663 --> 00:09:10,630 – Mh-hmm, yes, I've been reading, too, 179 00:09:10,630 --> 00:09:14,209 that there's a lot of concern about privacy of data. 180 00:09:14,209 --> 00:09:17,663 And even when I've talked to folks, internally, 181 00:09:17,663 --> 00:09:19,410 at our organization are like, "Oh, can we use it?" 182 00:09:19,410 --> 00:09:21,163 "Well, just be careful what you put in there." 183 00:09:21,163 --> 00:09:23,996 "Okay, well, can we have some more guardrails 184 00:09:23,996 --> 00:09:25,163 around what I'm supposed to put in there?" 185 00:09:25,163 --> 00:09:26,570 Because when you're using these tools, 186 00:09:26,570 --> 00:09:28,663 it's all about asking the right questions. 187 00:09:28,663 --> 00:09:30,829 And if you don't know how to ask the right questions. 188 00:09:30,829 --> 00:09:32,480 Soon enough, we'll see courses out there 189 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,663 saying, "How to ask the right questions to ChatGPT." 190 00:09:35,663 --> 00:09:38,496 – I actually talk about that; it's called prompt engineering. 191 00:09:38,496 --> 00:09:40,800 Six months ago, we didn't even realize it existed, 192 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,829 even though it did exist at that time. 193 00:09:42,829 --> 00:09:44,130 But right now there are so many 194 00:09:44,130 --> 00:09:47,329 new job opportunities in this prompt engineering. 195 00:09:47,329 --> 00:09:49,329 How you ask the questions. 196 00:09:49,329 --> 00:09:51,370 I used to call this a Google on steroids. 197 00:09:51,370 --> 00:09:55,660 I've had to change my tune because Google, you just do a quick ask. 198 00:09:55,660 --> 00:09:59,680 And yes, you can get away with that in ChatGPT and GPT-4. 199 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:03,960 But really, you really want to set the stage, tell it what you want. 200 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,510 The format you want it out, the tone you want it to project. 201 00:10:07,510 --> 00:10:10,660 You really have to have a pretty well developed question, 202 00:10:10,660 --> 00:10:11,720 and there are some methodologies 203 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,940 to do that, to properly ask a prompt. 204 00:10:15,940 --> 00:10:18,070 – Yes, it's a good point. 205 00:10:18,070 --> 00:10:22,100 And if you think about it, with this chat bot technology, 206 00:10:22,100 --> 00:10:24,450 it's still in the infrastructure phase. 207 00:10:24,450 --> 00:10:25,700 So you think about companies, 208 00:10:25,700 --> 00:10:28,610 they're still working on the whole infrastructure 209 00:10:28,610 --> 00:10:30,995 and, to some extent, they're building it 210 00:10:30,995 --> 00:10:34,170 while it's flying, if you think about that. 211 00:10:34,170 --> 00:10:36,329 And eventually it'll reach a point 212 00:10:36,329 --> 00:10:40,060 where we'll get to the application phase. 213 00:10:40,060 --> 00:10:42,079 But a lot of this, in my opinion, 214 00:10:42,079 --> 00:10:46,495 is moving way faster than we've seen before. 215 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:49,710 So it's not new, but it's faster than before. 216 00:10:49,710 --> 00:10:55,270 So I try to think about if you think about social networks, 217 00:10:55,270 --> 00:10:57,210 social media because they compare, 218 00:10:57,210 --> 00:11:01,800 like Scott was saying, reach a 100 million monthly active users, 219 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,000 or MAU, that's one of the metrics for social media. 220 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,990 You think about 2002, there was Friendster. 221 00:11:07,990 --> 00:11:10,130 I don't know if anybody remembers Friendster. 222 00:11:10,130 --> 00:11:13,495 – We actually do. – 2003, Myspace, 223 00:11:13,495 --> 00:11:15,995 and that had 25 million users, 224 00:11:15,995 --> 00:11:20,220 and that was one of the top websites out there, at that time. 225 00:11:20,220 --> 00:11:23,820 And, then, Facebook comes along, Twitter, 226 00:11:23,820 --> 00:11:29,995 and then now you've got TikTok, a billion monthly active users. 227 00:11:29,995 --> 00:11:35,828 And, I think, Facebook is at 1.9, or something like that, billion monthly. 228 00:11:35,870 --> 00:11:39,880 So if you look at it in that way, it's still moving. 229 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:45,129 But this isn't happening from 2002 to the 2020s. 230 00:11:45,129 --> 00:11:48,449 This is happening, really, if you look at it, in months. 231 00:11:48,449 --> 00:11:51,170 We've seen a lot of exponential growth. 232 00:11:51,495 --> 00:11:58,495 – Yes, the modern AI, as we know it, as we see it, is still in its infancy. 233 00:11:58,540 --> 00:12:01,990 And there's been discussion something about AGI, 234 00:12:01,990 --> 00:12:04,899 and you're talking about Artificial General Intelligence. 235 00:12:04,899 --> 00:12:08,828 Which is the level of where it's going to be in, who knows, 236 00:12:08,828 --> 00:12:11,920 six months, two years, five years, 10 years. 237 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:16,140 I mean, GPT-2 was released back in 2019, 238 00:12:16,140 --> 00:12:18,760 then we had GPT-3 in 2021. 239 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,070 So it has been ramping up. 240 00:12:21,070 --> 00:12:24,540 But, well, just wait till this stuff hits adolescents. 241 00:12:24,540 --> 00:12:28,000 We think our kids are off the guardrails, 242 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,570 let's watch out for ChatGPT, and GPT-4, 243 00:12:30,570 --> 00:12:32,720 and GPT-5 eventually to come. 244 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,328 Even though they put the brakes a little bit, they're slowing that down. 245 00:12:35,661 --> 00:12:40,328 – Or another platform or that'll rise up. 246 00:12:40,328 --> 00:12:42,330 – Yes, I was just going to say that. 247 00:12:42,330 --> 00:12:44,994 You mentioned Myspace and then it was taken over by Facebook. 248 00:12:44,994 --> 00:12:47,269 Chat GPT is the big one now. 249 00:12:47,269 --> 00:12:49,679 I mean, I remember Myspace, I had a Myspace page, 250 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,699 and then Facebook, I was like, "What's Facebook? 251 00:12:52,699 --> 00:12:53,699 What's this new thing?" 252 00:12:53,699 --> 00:12:54,900 And everybody gets the Facebook page. 253 00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:56,661 And, then, you forget about Myspace 254 00:12:56,661 --> 00:12:58,994 because it's no longer the relevant platform. 255 00:12:58,994 --> 00:13:01,529 And, then, you talk to kids, nowadays, you say Facebook. 256 00:13:01,529 --> 00:13:02,828 They're like, "What's Facebook? 257 00:13:02,828 --> 00:13:05,661 I'm using..." whatever the platform they're using. 258 00:13:05,699 --> 00:13:08,779 So there's always a newer platform that's going to come along. 259 00:13:08,779 --> 00:13:11,050 And I think the other thing to remember, too, is ChatGPT, 260 00:13:11,050 --> 00:13:13,199 like you said, it's in a beta. 261 00:13:13,199 --> 00:13:17,260 It's not even fully out, but, yet, people are using it like it's fully there. 262 00:13:17,260 --> 00:13:19,661 And you have to remember those guardrails 263 00:13:19,661 --> 00:13:21,550 and, maybe, we can talk a little bit. 264 00:13:21,550 --> 00:13:26,327 How can companies use this within their organization, in a safe way? 265 00:13:26,327 --> 00:13:28,680 Because, obviously, you don't want to do too major stuff, 266 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:31,994 but you can also utilize it for helping in some ways, too. 267 00:13:32,161 --> 00:13:33,500 – Well, as previously mentioned, 268 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:37,661 we started saying you got to be careful and we need to educate. 269 00:13:37,661 --> 00:13:40,327 The same way we need to educate, "Don't click 270 00:13:40,327 --> 00:13:42,980 on that attachment on that email." 271 00:13:42,980 --> 00:13:44,110 Because it might open something up 272 00:13:44,110 --> 00:13:46,380 that's going to do something and cause a ransomware 273 00:13:46,380 --> 00:13:48,589 to be loaded, or whatever it might be. 274 00:13:48,589 --> 00:13:50,320 We need to educate and train our folks 275 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,660 to say, "Well, how do we properly and effectively use this stuff?" 276 00:13:53,660 --> 00:13:56,827 Because you can go off the deep end and can go any direction. 277 00:13:56,827 --> 00:14:00,490 And I mentioned, earlier, that as a professional, 278 00:14:00,490 --> 00:14:02,060 you can use this stuff and you can acknowledge, 279 00:14:02,060 --> 00:14:04,994 "Okay, wait a minute, this is nonsense, or this is really good." 280 00:14:05,139 --> 00:14:07,269 It can augment what you're doing. 281 00:14:07,269 --> 00:14:08,827 If you know what you're doing, 282 00:14:08,827 --> 00:14:14,040 that's the best use to let it help you do what you do best, 283 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,670 and you can ask it those questions. 284 00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:17,480 You can complement where you're going. 285 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:22,660 If you're new and you're trying to figure out how to use this stuff, 286 00:14:22,660 --> 00:14:24,494 You, again, need to have that back- 287 00:14:24,827 --> 00:14:28,827 – Mh-hmm, yes, to piggyback on that, I think, at this moment, 288 00:14:28,827 --> 00:14:31,209 and you have to be careful to say, at this moment, 289 00:14:31,209 --> 00:14:36,930 with this March 23rd version of GPT-4. 290 00:14:36,930 --> 00:14:39,670 If you're a practitioner, you're using it, 291 00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:42,759 it can make you better if you have that skill set. 292 00:14:42,759 --> 00:14:47,010 So it has the possibility to make you more efficient. 293 00:14:47,010 --> 00:14:50,709 Now, if you're not in the profession. 294 00:14:50,709 --> 00:14:52,370 So if you're not an accountant 295 00:14:52,370 --> 00:14:54,560 and you're looking to use it to do accounting, 296 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,260 it can have the opposite effect. 297 00:14:56,260 --> 00:15:00,020 But what is happening, if they continue, 298 00:15:00,020 --> 00:15:05,493 with their focus on reliability, that gap is going to get narrower. 299 00:15:05,493 --> 00:15:10,950 It's going to get smaller, but it's not going to disappear. 300 00:15:10,950 --> 00:15:15,826 – And you were asking about effective use of this, as a professional. 301 00:15:15,826 --> 00:15:19,149 The idea that you need to understand the field, 302 00:15:19,149 --> 00:15:21,890 to be able to ask the right questions. 303 00:15:21,890 --> 00:15:25,993 To be an effective learner, you have to be an effective questioner. 304 00:15:26,060 --> 00:15:29,130 To be an effective questioner will help you go far 305 00:15:29,130 --> 00:15:30,660 in any direction you want. 306 00:15:30,660 --> 00:15:34,493 If you're just going to trust blindly, it's not going to be effective for you. 307 00:15:34,826 --> 00:15:37,519 – And from a business side, 308 00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:42,519 we're going to see more companies partnering with OpenAI. 309 00:15:42,519 --> 00:15:47,759 So Chegg has partnered with ChatGPT to create CheggMate. 310 00:15:47,759 --> 00:15:51,320 Bloomberg has created their Bloomberg GPT. 311 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:57,326 So we'll see more and more of these applications or partnerships, 312 00:15:57,326 --> 00:16:00,826 with GPT and other platforms. 313 00:16:00,826 --> 00:16:03,690 Again, moving from that infrastructure phase 314 00:16:03,690 --> 00:16:06,159 to more of an application phase. 315 00:16:06,659 --> 00:16:08,839 – Yes, there seems to be an infinite waitlist for those 316 00:16:08,839 --> 00:16:10,279 who are trying to partner with them. 317 00:16:10,279 --> 00:16:12,940 If you try to say, "I want some sort of partnership, I'll work with it." 318 00:16:12,940 --> 00:16:14,519 They say, "Well, we've got you on a list 319 00:16:14,519 --> 00:16:16,690 and we'll get back to you when we can." 320 00:16:16,690 --> 00:16:19,493 They're not even giving a time period now, which is really interesting. 321 00:16:19,493 --> 00:16:21,659 – Although you hear about the majors- 322 00:16:21,659 --> 00:16:22,659 – The majors, of course. 323 00:16:22,659 --> 00:16:24,493 – You hear about the Metas of the world. 324 00:16:24,493 --> 00:16:25,990 You hear about the Alphabets of the world, 325 00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:29,790 the Microsofts of the world, the OpenAIs of the world. 326 00:16:29,790 --> 00:16:32,139 But there are hundreds of other 327 00:16:32,139 --> 00:16:35,010 artificial intelligent applications out there. 328 00:16:35,010 --> 00:16:40,159 From music generators, to video generators, to rewriting, and tools, 329 00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:41,492 that there's a lot of NVC, 330 00:16:41,492 --> 00:16:44,826 there's a lot of venture capital money that's going towards these. 331 00:16:44,826 --> 00:16:46,730 It feels like the .com boom. 332 00:16:46,730 --> 00:16:49,826 If you were in 1998 and you had the .com in your name, 333 00:16:49,826 --> 00:16:53,339 toys.com or china.com, people threw money at you. 334 00:16:53,339 --> 00:16:56,826 Now you've got .ai, people are throwing money at you. 335 00:16:56,826 --> 00:16:59,659 Some of them are going to stick and some of them are pretty powerful. 336 00:16:59,670 --> 00:17:01,220 I've used a variety of these tools, 337 00:17:01,220 --> 00:17:04,826 and they're impressive and they can do some amazing things. 338 00:17:04,826 --> 00:17:05,992 – I mean, just thinking of the example 339 00:17:05,992 --> 00:17:08,610 of that picture of the Pope, in that white puffy jacket, 340 00:17:08,610 --> 00:17:10,326 that went around, and everybody thought was real. 341 00:17:10,326 --> 00:17:12,159 And then they're like, "Wait, that was created by AI." 342 00:17:12,159 --> 00:17:13,880 And it fooled so many people. 343 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,659 News outlets were reporting on it, that it was this great picture. 344 00:17:17,659 --> 00:17:19,280 – That's right. 345 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,325 – So I want to circle back to what you were saying, Scott, 346 00:17:21,325 --> 00:17:24,210 about novices and people just learning. 347 00:17:24,210 --> 00:17:26,870 And to be a great learner, you have to be a great questioner. 348 00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:28,659 And, so, this makes me think about 349 00:17:28,659 --> 00:17:30,992 accounting education and people in schools. 350 00:17:30,992 --> 00:17:34,400 And I know that ChatGPT had created another tool 351 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,492 for professors to use, to check in 352 00:17:37,492 --> 00:17:39,090 against plagiarism and stuff like that. 353 00:17:39,090 --> 00:17:42,559 But how can this be used in an accounting education? 354 00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:44,919 Because the people, the kids, that are coming up, 355 00:17:44,919 --> 00:17:47,150 they're more tech savvy than folks who are older, 356 00:17:47,150 --> 00:17:49,860 and they're going to continue to be more and more savvy. 357 00:17:49,860 --> 00:17:53,492 But how can we best use this as we train up the next generation? 358 00:17:53,992 --> 00:17:58,580 – Well, I'll tell you, this is not only changing the world of work, 359 00:17:58,580 --> 00:18:00,420 it's also changing the world of education. 360 00:18:00,420 --> 00:18:02,260 We need to change as educators. 361 00:18:02,260 --> 00:18:04,020 We need to level up. 362 00:18:04,020 --> 00:18:06,890 We keep talking about critical thinking. 363 00:18:06,890 --> 00:18:09,190 That critical thinking is a powerful environment 364 00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:12,169 that we need to help our students take advantage of. 365 00:18:12,169 --> 00:18:15,992 But it's even more important now with the use of these AI tools. 366 00:18:15,992 --> 00:18:19,400 Because when they ask a question, well, students, 367 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,820 and I hate to stereotype any student, 368 00:18:21,820 --> 00:18:25,658 but they don't have the bandwidth nor the base of knowledge 369 00:18:25,658 --> 00:18:28,059 that the experts and the professionals have. 370 00:18:28,059 --> 00:18:29,860 So they're going to take a look at some of this technology 371 00:18:29,860 --> 00:18:34,440 and trust it a little more blindly than you or I would, probably, like. 372 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,325 So they are exposed to it, they are using it. 373 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,460 I've surveyed three classes recently. 374 00:18:39,460 --> 00:18:41,950 One over three quarters were using it. 375 00:18:41,950 --> 00:18:44,325 Another about half, a little over a half we're using it. 376 00:18:44,325 --> 00:18:46,059 And a third under a quarter we're using it. 377 00:18:46,059 --> 00:18:47,491 Which means they're using it. 378 00:18:47,491 --> 00:18:49,960 The key is, are faculty using it? 379 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:51,510 Are the educators using it? 380 00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:55,270 And when we do, we realize they're going to take home exam 381 00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:56,491 and they're going to play with it, look it, 382 00:18:56,491 --> 00:18:58,250 and say, "Oh, great, I get the answer." 383 00:18:58,250 --> 00:18:59,960 But I will share, I've done two exams, 384 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:02,080 I call them "You're the auditor exams." 385 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,991 And I actually ask a question, multiple choice. 386 00:19:04,991 --> 00:19:08,825 I give it the AI answer that ChatGPT generated, 387 00:19:08,825 --> 00:19:10,220 and then I give it three alternatives. 388 00:19:10,220 --> 00:19:12,140 So this is the new multiple choice format. 389 00:19:12,140 --> 00:19:13,325 So what was the result? 390 00:19:13,325 --> 00:19:17,991 Randomly, these two exams, it was about 52% that ChatGPT was right. 391 00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:22,158 So 20 out of 39 right, 19 out of 39 wrong. 392 00:19:22,158 --> 00:19:24,950 I told my students, "You want to get a 50 on this exam, 393 00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:28,580 just circle A for every one of these answers and you're halfway there. 394 00:19:28,580 --> 00:19:30,324 But if you want to get a better grade. 395 00:19:30,324 --> 00:19:32,360 You're probably going to want to really do the problem, 396 00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:35,070 do the question, and evaluate for yourself." 397 00:19:35,070 --> 00:19:39,510 But they have access to the post of ChatGPT. 398 00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:42,450 We need to embrace that, and use that, 399 00:19:42,450 --> 00:19:45,991 and apply that to teach them how the rights and the wrongs, 400 00:19:45,991 --> 00:19:48,824 the ethical use of this tool. 401 00:19:48,824 --> 00:19:52,158 – Definitely it is a challenge because you think about 402 00:19:52,158 --> 00:19:55,158 we're training students to go into the workforce. 403 00:19:55,158 --> 00:19:59,991 Definitely the workforce wants more efficient and productive workers, 404 00:19:59,991 --> 00:20:04,730 and this tool can definitely provide that or facilitate that. 405 00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:06,780 So you want to expose students to it 406 00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:08,980 because, eventually, the workforce 407 00:20:08,980 --> 00:20:12,920 is going to demand it, for greater output. 408 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,824 So that's the big challenge. 409 00:20:14,824 --> 00:20:18,299 And I think the other challenge educators have been facing, 410 00:20:18,299 --> 00:20:20,657 is it's been changing so much. 411 00:20:20,657 --> 00:20:23,657 And we're getting a little breather right now, 412 00:20:23,657 --> 00:20:27,991 between the 4.0 and the GPT-5. 413 00:20:27,991 --> 00:20:31,491 Because you think about it, we had the rollout of the 3.5, 414 00:20:31,491 --> 00:20:35,940 then the 3.5 Plus, then the 4.0. 415 00:20:35,940 --> 00:20:38,700 And really, there was a big jump 416 00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:43,491 between the very first rollout in November 30th, the 3.5, 417 00:20:43,491 --> 00:20:47,059 to the 4.0, today, and we have to maneuver and adjust. 418 00:20:47,059 --> 00:20:54,310 So we can, at least, set some sort of baseline, right now, to catch up. 419 00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:58,940 – I'm in the field of education, adult education, as well, 420 00:20:58,940 --> 00:21:01,157 and it's interesting when I talk to colleagues. 421 00:21:01,157 --> 00:21:02,760 I was talking to a colleague of mine 422 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,669 and he said, "Well, yes, I was doing a three-day seminar 423 00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:08,324 for the internal organization and I used ChatGPT 424 00:21:08,324 --> 00:21:11,990 to create my beginning starting point, and then I adjusted it from there." 425 00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:15,330 So, like you said, Scott, educators need to really jump on this. 426 00:21:15,330 --> 00:21:18,360 Because it could be people who are professionals can utilize it 427 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:21,990 to say, "Hey, I'm going to create an outline using ChatGPT 428 00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:24,157 if I can put all this material in there." 429 00:21:24,157 --> 00:21:29,490 But then if all of us, professionals, start to do that, are we losing 430 00:21:29,490 --> 00:21:31,823 the ability to create these things on our own. 431 00:21:31,823 --> 00:21:35,559 – Well, two factors, one is in the career space. 432 00:21:35,559 --> 00:21:37,710 Mfon brought a great point on employers 433 00:21:37,710 --> 00:21:39,190 are expecting you to have this skill. 434 00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:40,657 – Yes. – I saw a survey 435 00:21:40,657 --> 00:21:44,490 that over 90% of employers want to see that as a tool 436 00:21:44,490 --> 00:21:47,157 you've used, experienced, and have some knowledge of, 437 00:21:47,157 --> 00:21:49,450 even more so than blockchain these days. 438 00:21:49,450 --> 00:21:53,150 But the other side is being able to apply, 439 00:21:53,150 --> 00:21:54,990 and as you were just talking about 440 00:21:54,990 --> 00:21:58,400 the tools, you can use it for so many things. 441 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,490 You can use it to summarize; "Here is my LinkedIn URL, 442 00:22:01,490 --> 00:22:03,490 give me a summary of who I'm going to be talking to." 443 00:22:03,490 --> 00:22:06,070 "Here's an article; I don't have time to read this six pages. 444 00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:08,000 Give me a summary of what this is all about." 445 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,323 And you can use those things, and it's, usually, pretty good 446 00:22:10,323 --> 00:22:12,360 and pretty accurate in reflecting that. 447 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,823 And then you say, "Give me the ten-top points, in bullet points." 448 00:22:15,823 --> 00:22:20,530 Then go ahead, "I need to write my own blog, and my own post. 449 00:22:20,530 --> 00:22:23,130 I need to set up, give me a two-week schedule 450 00:22:23,130 --> 00:22:26,156 to implement this program, which is going to include these steps." 451 00:22:26,156 --> 00:22:28,630 Or, "First of all, tell me the steps. 452 00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:31,156 Then make me a two-week schedule or a 30-day schedule." 453 00:22:31,156 --> 00:22:33,823 "I'm on a diet, I'm traveling, give me a tour. 454 00:22:33,823 --> 00:22:35,700 How about some restaurants?" 455 00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:39,750 Back to the hallucination, though, it gets names wrong. 456 00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:45,656 I actually made a list of the 50 CPA associations, across the country. 457 00:22:45,656 --> 00:22:48,656 The societies' CPAs, I said, "Give me the executive director, 458 00:22:48,656 --> 00:22:53,156 their email, their address, their phone, and their abbreviation." 459 00:22:53,156 --> 00:22:56,730 It got every executive director, or CEO, wrong. 460 00:22:56,730 --> 00:23:01,230 It got every email address for those CEOs, obviously, wrong. 461 00:23:01,230 --> 00:23:01,823 It made them up. 462 00:23:01,823 --> 00:23:04,323 It made up names, but it sounds so good. 463 00:23:04,323 --> 00:23:07,220 I looked at it and said, "Oh, this is cool." 464 00:23:07,220 --> 00:23:09,823 And then I realized, "But South Carolina, 465 00:23:09,823 --> 00:23:12,540 and Massachusetts, Wisconsin, I know these guys. 466 00:23:12,540 --> 00:23:15,130 I've never heard of these people, who the heck are they?" 467 00:23:15,130 --> 00:23:18,120 And the same thing for education journal articles. 468 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,823 Book titles, it makes up book names, 469 00:23:20,823 --> 00:23:23,690 like, "Give me a list of the top 25 books in the career space." 470 00:23:23,690 --> 00:23:25,529 If I'm looking for this kind of role. 471 00:23:25,529 --> 00:23:27,989 And it gave me 15 or 20 that were actually pretty good 472 00:23:27,989 --> 00:23:30,190 and pretty well recognized, and three or four, 473 00:23:30,190 --> 00:23:31,620 I said, "I've never heard of these." 474 00:23:31,620 --> 00:23:34,309 And the reason was they didn't exist. 475 00:23:34,309 --> 00:23:35,490 So you look at that and start 476 00:23:35,490 --> 00:23:39,322 saying, "Okay, it's got good stuff, but it's got a balance." 477 00:23:39,822 --> 00:23:45,880 – Yes, but I think as that reliability and the focus on that, 478 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,489 on ending that hallucination, as far as the education portion. 479 00:23:50,489 --> 00:23:52,656 There's going to be way more value and emphasis on critical thinking 480 00:23:54,656 --> 00:23:59,600 and the problem solving skills, and not using that as... 481 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,989 So I think it'll shift even more. 482 00:24:02,322 --> 00:24:05,656 – The only constant is change, and you're right about that. 483 00:24:05,656 --> 00:24:09,822 Those exams that I told had a roughly 46%, 52%, 484 00:24:09,822 --> 00:24:13,210 depending on the exam, was a 3.5. 485 00:24:13,210 --> 00:24:17,989 Jumping to 4.0, we're over 80%, so it's improving, too. 486 00:24:17,989 --> 00:24:20,220 I discovered this in December I said, "Okay, I've got an exam, 487 00:24:20,220 --> 00:24:21,850 let me play with it and see what it does. 488 00:24:21,850 --> 00:24:24,322 The first five out of six questions, it got right. 489 00:24:24,322 --> 00:24:26,655 And I said, "Oh, my students are going to cheat like mag dogs, 490 00:24:26,655 --> 00:24:29,489 and I can't give a take-home exam ever again." 491 00:24:29,489 --> 00:24:32,450 But the next six out of seven questions, it got wrong. 492 00:24:32,450 --> 00:24:33,822 And then I was more worried 493 00:24:33,822 --> 00:24:36,489 because, again, I know how trusting students can be 494 00:24:36,489 --> 00:24:37,655 when they look at the logical, 495 00:24:37,655 --> 00:24:41,840 the good English, the nice flow, and then get a wrong answer. 496 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,489 But they would trust it because of the proper English and the flow. 497 00:24:45,489 --> 00:24:47,230 – So that's a great example of how 498 00:24:47,230 --> 00:24:49,470 you can incorporate it into your classroom. 499 00:24:49,470 --> 00:24:52,489 Are there other ways you can integrate that or similar tools 500 00:24:52,489 --> 00:24:55,000 into the classroom, as you were building this? 501 00:24:55,322 --> 00:24:59,155 – I'm using it daily, in terms of asking a question for the day kind of thing, 502 00:24:59,155 --> 00:25:02,140 and that response, I actually, grade it. 503 00:25:02,140 --> 00:25:04,440 I discuss it with my students, and then they grade it. 504 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,488 And in three different classes, in the same day, once I got a B+ for one, 505 00:25:09,559 --> 00:25:13,155 I got a D for another, and I got a CC+ on a third. 506 00:25:13,155 --> 00:25:15,110 So I'm an academic, I'll grade them. 507 00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:18,150 Then we show what was wrong, what the shortcomings are. 508 00:25:18,150 --> 00:25:21,655 But every time you get a different answer, and it's not always improving. 509 00:25:21,655 --> 00:25:23,488 It's not stepping up to say, okay, this first time, 510 00:25:23,488 --> 00:25:28,650 I asked it this, next time that, it depends on the word choices. 511 00:25:28,650 --> 00:25:30,155 We're going back to the beginning. 512 00:25:30,155 --> 00:25:32,960 "Ah, this word sounds good after the next word." 513 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,155 And that's the flow. 514 00:25:34,155 --> 00:25:35,910 I once asked it the question, 515 00:25:35,910 --> 00:25:39,321 "So when did the dragons defeat the Roman Empire?" 516 00:25:39,321 --> 00:25:42,539 And it said, "In 650 BCE, King so and so, 517 00:25:42,539 --> 00:25:44,988 and the dragons defeated the Roman Empire. 518 00:25:44,988 --> 00:25:47,321 But 200 years later, the Romans fought back 519 00:25:47,321 --> 00:25:49,988 and were restored to order." Whatever it was. 520 00:25:49,988 --> 00:25:51,929 I couldn't get that answer again, by the way. 521 00:25:51,929 --> 00:25:55,539 I've been in there since, trying to ask the same or similar question. 522 00:25:55,539 --> 00:25:59,929 And it says, "But dragons are mythical creatures, they don't exist." 523 00:25:59,929 --> 00:26:03,155 So it does learn, but it also can give you 524 00:26:03,155 --> 00:26:04,988 some pretty far-out answers. 525 00:26:05,321 --> 00:26:07,890 – Yes, it does, and as educators, 526 00:26:07,890 --> 00:26:11,488 we need to expose our students to it, talk about it. 527 00:26:11,488 --> 00:26:13,779 We can't really bury our heads in the sand 528 00:26:13,779 --> 00:26:17,909 and pretend like, "You know what, this isn't here, it's not coming." 529 00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:21,190 They are using it, and it's important 530 00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:24,321 to, at least, understand how they're using it. 531 00:26:24,321 --> 00:26:27,529 Understand what type of access they have to it. 532 00:26:27,529 --> 00:26:29,488 Because I survey my students; 533 00:26:29,488 --> 00:26:32,830 I have some students who have the free version, 534 00:26:32,830 --> 00:26:34,600 and they've tried it a few times. 535 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,590 I have other students that have the paid version 536 00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:42,240 and they are using it every day, diligently, and they let me know. 537 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,679 So it's important to understand that and get a gauge on it, 538 00:26:45,679 --> 00:26:51,154 and then dive into it and use it because it's not going away. 539 00:26:51,154 --> 00:26:52,821 It is not going to go away. 540 00:26:52,821 --> 00:26:55,321 – And it really starts back at secondary education. 541 00:26:55,321 --> 00:26:56,988 I mean, the State of New York has banned it. 542 00:26:56,988 --> 00:26:58,988 Can't have it on the Chromebooks, can't access it. 543 00:26:58,988 --> 00:27:02,060 The City of Baltimore looking at it saying "No, can't do it." 544 00:27:02,060 --> 00:27:03,321 The City of Seattle. 545 00:27:03,321 --> 00:27:04,880 But what's that telling our students? 546 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,640 And what's that telling our environment? 547 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,640 And what's that going to do for graduates? 548 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:09,821 When the employers are saying, 549 00:27:09,821 --> 00:27:12,290 "We want folks with experience, even if they're not college graduates, 550 00:27:12,290 --> 00:27:13,500 even high school graduates. 551 00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:15,154 We want them to have some experience." 552 00:27:15,154 --> 00:27:19,179 So the haves and the have not barrier is going to get wider 553 00:27:19,179 --> 00:27:21,487 because students that can't get it on their school computer 554 00:27:21,487 --> 00:27:24,987 can go home, "Mom or dad can I use your computer for school?" 555 00:27:24,987 --> 00:27:26,970 Who's going to deny them? 556 00:27:26,970 --> 00:27:29,340 But the students, I'll call the have nots, 557 00:27:29,340 --> 00:27:32,270 that don't have a parent with Internet access or a computer, 558 00:27:32,270 --> 00:27:36,220 and are stuck with their school computer, now they can't access it. 559 00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:37,654 So what happens at graduation? 560 00:27:37,654 --> 00:27:40,160 We have the haves that played with it, used it, 561 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,321 even though they banned it. 562 00:27:41,321 --> 00:27:44,710 And the have nots that don't have that skill set or level, 563 00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:46,240 or they both go to college and, again, 564 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,987 there's that still gap coming into college. 565 00:27:48,987 --> 00:27:50,320 So our work's cut out for us. 566 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,910 But Mfon is so right about not being able 567 00:27:52,910 --> 00:27:54,360 to bury our head in the sand. 568 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:58,820 We need to embrace it, use it, apply it, and help our students do the same. 569 00:27:58,929 --> 00:28:03,600 – And that's a good point, because with more penetration of ChatGPT 570 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,020 and other platforms like it, 571 00:28:06,020 --> 00:28:09,720 there will be that, I guess, you can call it the AI gap. 572 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,390 So you'll start to see there'll be a gap 573 00:28:11,390 --> 00:28:15,559 between those who are using it or have exposure to it, 574 00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:17,154 and those who do not. 575 00:28:17,154 --> 00:28:21,154 – I'll quote you on that AI gap, for certain. 576 00:28:21,154 --> 00:28:24,320 – I was reading an article, I saw an article yesterday, 577 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,860 I think, it was on CNBC or one of those things they got. 578 00:28:26,860 --> 00:28:28,653 Somebody was quoting it and linked to it, 579 00:28:28,653 --> 00:28:31,710 and it was listing this very large number of organizations, 580 00:28:31,710 --> 00:28:37,320 that are starting to look for ChatGPT as experience on resumes even now. 581 00:28:37,380 --> 00:28:40,429 And it's not just saying, "I know about ChatGPT." 582 00:28:40,429 --> 00:28:42,520 But what can you do with it? 583 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,653 And being able to express what you can do with it, 584 00:28:44,653 --> 00:28:48,153 on your resume, that's a game changer right there. 585 00:28:48,153 --> 00:28:49,970 – There are a lot of HR folks fearing 586 00:28:49,970 --> 00:28:52,799 and saying, "Well, if they use it to write a cover letter, 587 00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:54,153 how can I tell if they used it?" 588 00:28:54,153 --> 00:28:56,820 Well, actually, if they use it, more power to them. 589 00:28:56,820 --> 00:29:00,490 They're, actually, applying the technology to something. 590 00:29:00,490 --> 00:29:02,320 And then they say, "Well, we can't differentiate." 591 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,653 Well, maybe you don't want to because everyone's going to be able 592 00:29:04,653 --> 00:29:05,950 to have great cover letters. 593 00:29:05,950 --> 00:29:08,986 Now we got to look deep at something different, maybe content, 594 00:29:08,986 --> 00:29:13,820 maybe certifications, maybe the ability to understand and integrate. 595 00:29:13,820 --> 00:29:16,070 But that prompt engineering is alive and well, 596 00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:18,986 and we really need to embrace that, too. 597 00:29:18,986 --> 00:29:21,669 – So, as we're wrapping up the conversation, 598 00:29:21,669 --> 00:29:24,190 as we look to the future. 599 00:29:24,190 --> 00:29:27,460 What can we do as practitioners in the space? 600 00:29:27,460 --> 00:29:29,440 We've talked a lot about educators. 601 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,153 What can we do, as we move forward? 602 00:29:31,153 --> 00:29:34,940 And what are some steps we can take as takeaways? 603 00:29:34,940 --> 00:29:37,019 – I would say the, big one, as a practitioner, 604 00:29:37,019 --> 00:29:40,059 get comfortable with being uncomfortable. 605 00:29:40,059 --> 00:29:45,360 And you have to have that life-long learning mindset, at this point. 606 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:51,779 And dive in and use the technology as much as you can, 607 00:29:51,779 --> 00:29:54,319 and learn as much as you can about it 608 00:29:54,319 --> 00:29:57,039 because it's changing, it's growing. 609 00:29:57,039 --> 00:30:02,409 You've got ChatGPT, you've got Google's Bard, which is developing. 610 00:30:02,409 --> 00:30:04,240 You've got Caktus AI. 611 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,990 So you have so many of these various platforms, 612 00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:10,860 and they're going to be more and more widely adopted. 613 00:30:10,860 --> 00:30:14,653 So understanding how they work, and where they're going, 614 00:30:14,653 --> 00:30:19,190 and how they apply to your practice, I think is very important. 615 00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:22,319 – And most of us have been using AI whether we realize it or not. 616 00:30:22,319 --> 00:30:25,100 You look at Alexa, you look at Siri, 617 00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:27,940 and you look at Netflix, they've been using AI for a while, 618 00:30:27,940 --> 00:30:30,100 that means we've been using it for a while. 619 00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:32,900 But I, wholeheartedly, agree that we need to embrace it. 620 00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:36,200 Because, frankly, our clients and customers are going to be using it. 621 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,220 Our staffs are going to be using it. 622 00:30:38,220 --> 00:30:40,019 Our kids are going to be using it. 623 00:30:40,019 --> 00:30:41,519 Owners need to be using it. 624 00:30:41,519 --> 00:30:43,819 We need to get comfortable with it, appreciate it, 625 00:30:43,819 --> 00:30:46,986 and take advantage of what it can do, it can magnify. 626 00:30:46,986 --> 00:30:49,350 It's just like RPA, Robotic Process Automation, 627 00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:50,929 it can take a three-week process 628 00:30:50,929 --> 00:30:53,486 and complete it in two hours, cool stuff. 629 00:30:53,486 --> 00:30:54,819 But so can AI. 630 00:30:54,819 --> 00:30:56,200 – Yes, and if you think about it, 631 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:01,830 if you have a business and your competitor is doing more with less, 632 00:31:01,830 --> 00:31:04,152 they can outpace you, potentially. 633 00:31:04,152 --> 00:31:06,652 – And I want to clarify the job challenge. 634 00:31:06,652 --> 00:31:07,710 There was a study, out there, 635 00:31:07,710 --> 00:31:10,152 that said 85 million jobs will be eliminated, 636 00:31:10,152 --> 00:31:13,679 The World Economic Forum, put that out, by 2025. 637 00:31:13,679 --> 00:31:16,319 And they said 97 million will be created. 638 00:31:16,319 --> 00:31:18,519 To me, that's a net gain of 12 million. 639 00:31:18,519 --> 00:31:20,319 And think of the profession, 100 years ago, 640 00:31:20,319 --> 00:31:22,319 we had 30 accountants for a 100-person company. 641 00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:24,840 Then we had ten accountants for a 100-person company. 642 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,950 Now we have one and a half or two accountants 643 00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:28,539 for a 100-person company. 644 00:31:28,539 --> 00:31:31,985 Does that mean we have a bunch of out of work, unemployed accountants? 645 00:31:31,985 --> 00:31:34,000 Well, last I heard there was a shortage. 646 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,330 So there really is a need. 647 00:31:36,330 --> 00:31:40,000 But it gives an opportunity for accountants to do higher level stuff. 648 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,985 To enter the C-suite, to be able to help make decisions and in process. 649 00:31:43,985 --> 00:31:46,819 So learn the tools, take advantage of the tools. 650 00:31:46,819 --> 00:31:50,985 And, as we said before, it's a springboard for a lot of opportunities. 651 00:31:51,319 --> 00:31:52,700 – It definitely is. 652 00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:55,159 And I know we could keep talking about this for a long time. 653 00:31:55,159 --> 00:31:56,990 But I'm going to promise our listeners 654 00:31:56,990 --> 00:32:00,485 that I'll have these two guys back on, in the future. 655 00:32:00,485 --> 00:32:02,818 Because I know, probably, a year from now, six months from now, 656 00:32:02,818 --> 00:32:04,818 this conversation will be completely different. 657 00:32:04,818 --> 00:32:07,080 And, so, if they're willing, we'll do that. 658 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,985 Thank you both for coming on today, it's been a great conversation. 659 00:32:09,985 --> 00:32:11,652 – Absolutely, thank you for having us. 660 00:32:11,652 --> 00:32:13,318 – It's been an honor, much appreciated. 661 00:32:13,318 --> 00:32:15,485 < Outro > 662 00:32:15,485 --> 00:32:18,318 – This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast. 663 00:32:18,318 --> 00:32:21,152 Providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders 664 00:32:21,152 --> 00:32:23,152 from the accounting and finance profession. 665 00:32:23,152 --> 00:32:25,818 If you like what you heard, and you'd like to be counted in, 666 00:32:25,818 --> 00:32:28,152 for more relevant accounting and finance education, 667 00:32:28,152 --> 00:32:34,152 visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.