Raph: /Hey folks, and welcome to this latest episode of the Small Tech Podcast.
Today we have another wonderful guest.
She is the founder and chief creative officer of Tiny Souls, a media
company that creates values based children's content and parenting
resources for early childhood.
She is Shadi Toloui-Wallace.
Hey, Shadi.
Shadi: Hi, thanks for having
Raph: How's it going?
Shadi: Love it.
Just
in my kid's playroom where it's quiet
Raph: Yep.
That
seems appropriate hahaha so yeah, I'm curious, to learn more about Tiny Souls.
What is it that you do?
Shadi: What do you want to know?
Beyond what I do
Yeah,
Raph: We'll start off with your high level pitch.
What is Tiny Souls?
Shadi: You just said it in the intro, it's a values based media company.
And so we create content for children and their families and educators.
The children's content is predominantly media based.
We have an animation series, we have music we have activities all
surrounded on, or based on character themes, social emotional learning so
we focus on patience, perseverance, generosity, love, kindness, all the
things that you want your children to be.
And we offer co experience models.
So we have those.
Those, that content for children, but then also for the caregivers we
provide tools and resources created by child developmental experts that
help foster and nurture these values and characteristics in their children.
So, it's a two fold, we offer, two fold In terms of focusing on both parents
and, or care giver and children that wasn't really a great pitch, but I
did my pitch was said by you, so yeah,
that's basically it.
Raph: I, it's, yeah, I love to, it's the, instead of the
five second pitch, it's the 15
Shadi: like, how many floors do we have?
Do we have 37 floors?
But essentially all of the parent resources are available on an
iOS, Android app and a web app.
And then the children's content is accessible on streaming platforms.
Raph: Cool.
That, that sounds really cool.
And I'm curious how, why, how did you end up here?
Like why this company, but also how did you end up there
as
Shadi: a.
good
Raph: on a.
Your personal journey.
Shadi: Yeah.
So I was a touring musician.
I toured for most of the decade.
Raph: super
Shadi: Yeah.
And I played solo, I played in bands.
And then I got married.
And I was trying to think about how this.
Be coherent with wanting to have a family one day.
And I struggled to imagine what that would look like.
I didn't have a lot of living examples around me and so I started to pivot a
little bit this idea of creating content for children had always been there.
Had a lot of friends that were going into parenthood and just saying Shadi, there's
nothing out there that is like meaningful and uplifting and it's all just garbage,
which I started looking into it and I was like, Oh my God, it is like there's, we're
baby burrito, baby shark, like everything for early childhood was just like nursery
rhymes that are they're very outdated.
A lot of them have pagan, like weird pagan stuff that we
don't like talk about anymore.
And then it was a lot of Rafi and Red Grammar, like people like that really
brought a lot of like kids quality content, but that was like the 80s.
And then since then, it's just been like, how do we entertain?
How do we keep these children engaged so that they don't bother their parents?
And, but it wasn't, it had no substance in my view.
And so I started to think about as an artist, how can I contribute to the space?
How can I elevate it?
How can I uplift it?
But then corresponding to that, like parallel to that, how do we
also give parents the resources and tools to then have a conversation
about equity and justice?
Children start to understand what is fair and unfair from a very young age.
How are we explaining that?
And how are we engaging with them so that they leave with a little bit more
of an understanding of what equity looks like, and what patience looks like.
And media, music, especially being my background, that was an area
that I could really contribute in.
So, I started writing these songs.
I started creating materials corresponding questions to these songs that I
was writing about patience, about perseverance, about justice, courage.
And then I started creating these activities because, one
thing led to another and we're in the middle of a pandemic.
My tours are being canceled.
I'm stuck at home.
I'm running this podcast past part time, but then I also have
this free time now and a lot of time on my own with my husband.
I'm just.
Pouring it into this idea called Tiny Souls.
And then I started to think about like activities and resources to
keep parents and children engaged that are also meaningful and aligned
with these songs that I was writing.
And then I'm sending these ideas off to friends of mine getting their feedback,
sending them, songs that I've written, getting their kids to listen to it.
And then lo and behold, my husband becomes unemployed during the pandemic, his
company got sold and they gave him an out.
And so he's a software engineer.
And so I thought, why don't we package all of this content that I've created.
into a, an app.
And so he custom built an app for Tiny Souls.
He ended up getting a job six months later, but then it was like
weekends, evenings, long weekends.
By that point we had a one, one and a half year old.
But this idea of Tiny Souls was like generating interest.
People were liking what they're seeing about it.
And it's all very modest marketing.
Just stuff that I, would put together myself or with the help of some friends.
I had some friends that had UX experience.
They're helping with that.
Graphic design experience.
They're helping me with that.
I'm working with a friend of mine who's a producer and he's producing these songs.
I think.
By the time we hit two years, I'd have written 30 songs that
were all available on the app.
So we had this idea that was this nascent idea of this resource that would
be available to parents on this app.
I, I had this hope or this wish that it would grow into something that could
really benefit educators, grandparents, nannies, education centers and then
eventually feature a lot of experts.
I mean, I'm not like an expert.
My mom is a childhood, early childhood expert, so she was helping
me develop all these resources.
I was working on the music and some of the activities building wireframes I have
no idea what I'm doing, but I'm on Sketch and I'm trying to design this stuff.
But then my vision was like, later down the line, hiring friends that are
musicians to contribute to the space, hiring educators and experts to contribute
to the knowledge base around like this, values based education and fostering.
And then we had a Kickstarter at the end of 2020 2022 just to, to, get some
funds together to start pushing out this beta that we developed and marketing it.
But then I managed to have some conversations with friends
and they were really excited.
They were just like, you're sitting on a million dollar idea.
Let's see how we can make this bigger and have as many
people access this as possible.
And to remove some of those financial barriers, cause it was like a
subscription, paid subscription app.
And then find other ways to finance it or, generate revenue.
And so I had one.
One friend give us an angel investor give us an investment, which kind
of formalized Tiny Souls media at the end of 2022, early 2023.
But by mid 2023, like last year, this time last year we had our first hire.
Well, second hire, I hired my friend Denise to be the CEO of Tiny Souls.
And now we have eight staff.
And then probably I want to say like between 10 and 15 contractors
that we work with on various kind of aspects of the product development and
marketing and just content creation.
So.
Yeah, it really blew up very quickly, but for me, it just, it was all part
of this greater vision that I had.
I didn't have a vision board, but I was just I saw the need with parents to start
creating, start, to stop reacting to poor behavior, but to start being proactive
about nurturing these values and fostering these good qualities, so that you don't
end up seeing the poor behavior later on.
And this kind of starts from day one.
And that's really just like the point of Chinese Souls.
And our mission is to give parents the resources and
tools to foster these values.
But we've just been super, super lucky.
I think I've been talking for a long time, so I'll let you ask a question.
Raph: That was amazing.
That was awesome.
That is what an epic journey.
From touring musician to yeah, creating this media company and not just like
creating a media company, but growing it to did you say eight employees
Shadi: Yeah, we have eight employees.
I think eight at least that are like on payroll.
And then like I said, like 10, between 10 and 15 contractors, some of them
are artists, some of them are content creators, but I studied business.
I went to business school.
I have a degree in public relations and communication.
So my goal was to always be an entrepreneur to have that
entrepreneurial spirit, but also try and find something that can
contribute to the good in the world
Raph: I love that.
Yeah.
Out of curiosity.
Okay.
So you study business.
Um, but presumably you're doing music already at, or maybe not.
I don't know.
Like, how did you go from studying business to then playing
music and then back to being like, okay, actually let's turn,
Shadi: yeah.
so I never formally studied music.
I just happened to be really good at it.
And people liked I think it's important to know where your strengths are.
And when there aren't,
you call on help.
And so, my strength has always been arts and culture and creativity,
especially in like the line of music.
And I've launched five albums that you can hear on streaming platforms.
And then I played with a Vancouver kind of, I fronted a Vancouver band called
Tiny Havoc and we played around town and we did a small tour on the island.
But really my bread and butter was this solo career.
I did do some administrative work at a nonprofit for some time.
But music has always been my thing, but I think it was successful because
I had a business background and I was able to understand the logistics of
managing, Like a music career so I came at it with this kind of education
or this background, what have you.
And I was able to sustain myself for quite some time just off of
touring and living as an artist.
Obviously you have gigs here and there that you take on that are not music
related to make ends meet, but I was predominantly just like a musician.
That's just always been my thing.
But then I had this business degree that really definitely
supported my music career.
I don't know if that answers your question, but
Raph: Yes.
Yeah.
Shadi: But my parents were always like, always was like, do what you want to do,
but you have to, it has to be sustainable.
And so I was like, okay, I'm going to try and do music.
And they were super supportive as long as you can, make a
living off of it, then why not?
And.
Raph: Why not?
Yeah.
Shadi: obviously it has so much help, so much support along the way
from friends and family, but that's
basically how my life has been led.
And then now I have
two kids and a mortgage and things change.
Raph: a little bit.
I'm curious how much of, I mean, it's still a very like related field.
Like you're still doing media.
What things did you learn doing music that, that you were able
to bring into this new project?
Might be a lot
Shadi: Yeah.
Raph: be not a whole lot.
I
Shadi: I mean, one of the things, like One of the things that I've learned from
touring, not necessarily music, but from touring is just like building strong
relationships and building friendships.
And so much of my team and so much of like how far we got with just,
bootstrapping everything was just through connections and through friendships and
Oh, we need someone that can do that.
Oh, I know somebody, and I can trust them.
And so I think it's touring came from a lot of hustling, a lot of networking,
like knowing people all around North America, all around South America, all
around Australasia and all of these countries to who's a point person that I
can trust to plan something for me, or, I think it's so much about human relations.
And that's one thing, I guess, when I study public relations
and building, building strong.
Strong relationships and friendships and understanding what skill sets other
people have and knowing where I where I lack that they can help me out on.
I think there's a lot of trust.
I know where I know where my strengths are and I know where my weaknesses are
and who can I depend on, who can I lean on that can help build where I'm lacking or
help contribute where I'm lacking and give them kind of the autonomy and give them
the trust that they need to do that job.
Raph: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I actually thought as you were talking earlier and you were describing how
your mom has this background that's related and your partner is a software
developer and that you've got like these people in your circles, I was
like, Oh yeah, like you built like a really strong network of people
Shadi: I have an amazing circle and I, my meeting with my CEO just came from
just let's have lunch, let's get a salad and just check in on each other
because I knew she had some branding background and I'd been showing her
the app as it'd been developing and she was just, looking for her next
kind of oportunity And I was showing her the app as, as it was developing,
getting her experience on branding.
And then I, through that lunch, I heard she's got all these leadership skills or
I learned she had these leadership skills.
Oh, she's got an MBA.
Oh, she's got this, all this background in finance.
And then jokingly, I was like, do you want to be my CEO?
And she's actually, I would.
Can I send you my like CV right now?
And so yeah, of course.
And then, this is really crazy.
So like our animation for Tiny Souls is called Zip in the Tiny Sprouts.
And we found our animation company through our head of development.
She's no longer with us, but she basically we created this story bible,
which is essentially like the heart of this, the show, like the characters
and just like the crux of what the show is about is in this bible.
And essentially you send this bible off to a bunch of different animation
studios and production companies and they pitch you based on that bible.
And so, Brad Montague, who is many people know him as like the founder of Kid
President, but he's also an incredibly accomplished writer and illustrator.
He's got a really vibrant social media presence.
He built our bible.
And so this head of production took the bible and, sent it off to
a bunch of production companies.
One got back and said, we're not, we're focusing on slightly older content
for more like teens, pre teens, but there's this company called K Love
You, Bye they're just formed and this would be a great project for them.
So we meet with them and a bunch of the, those guys came from Bluey, which is a
really hit animated series in Australia.
And it happens to be where I grew up in Brisbane.
And so we're on this call with this guy in Brisbane and we went to like parallel
high schools and there's like all these connections and like mutual connections.
And he lives in the same suburb is my dad right now in Brisbane and there's just
like all of these like weird connections.
And so, and now they're animating our show and half of my calls are
on Brisbane time, which is like essentially like the same time zone
as my parents and It's just crazy.
So I don't know what to say, but like everything that has happened
is just because of these like really positive connections.
And I think because we're trying to generate something that will help
humanity that I really think there's this like karmic like presence around
me and I'm just so grateful and knock wood everything will be okay.
But just like all these, there's so many connections or like We did a rebrand
exercise with this company in Melbourne.
And apparently he the guy sat next to the, my friend who was designing
my album cover 10 years ago.
And he remembers my album cover from 10 years ago.
And now he's doing our brand exercise for Tiny Souls.
so it's just so many connections.
And I learned this from my time at this nonprofit music school called
the Sarah McLachlan School of Music And speaking with Sarah McLachlan
herself, she was just like, always be so graceful and you never want to
give anyone a bad experience with you.
Do you know what I'm trying to say?
It's Yeah you just always want to leave a really good taste in people's mouths.
That's what I'm saying.
But what I understood from that is she's so graceful.
And no matter how many times there were challenges in the
media or in the art world.
But she was just always so graceful and dignified and positive and loving.
And so if you can emulate that, I think people always want to help you and
see the good in what you're creating.
So that's, yeah, I feel very lucky.
Raph: Yeah, totally.
I feel like there's a thing that comes from like an openness to like,
to connecting with people and letting people in and finding people and helping
people out that, that creates this.
Shadi: Yeah.
Raph: the snowball effect of just like things grow and yeah, it's awesome.
It's really nice to hear how that, yeah, how all of these like
threads came together in your life.
It's really cool.
I'm curious if you can tell me a little bit about how tech fits
into all of this, because this is the small tech podcast, so Yeah,
Shadi: connect.
Well, I mean, the reason why I wanted my husband to create the app was
because as a parent, as a new mom, I spend so much time on my phone.
It's crazy.
You're feeding.
You're doing everything.
You're up late at night, you're trying to stay awake and it's 3 am.
and you're so exhausted, but you've got to stay awake so you can feed this baby.
And the only thing that's like your best friend right now is
your phone and you're like on your phone just to keep yourself awake.
And then you're on your phone to connect with people.
You're on your phone to get knowledge and information.
It was just like so important to be able to have this resource On a
platform like an iOS, Android platform to make it as accessible as possible.
And even as we've evolved and we've created video content
it's been so important to, we've moved from this custom built app.
And in order to scale, we've had to move into kind of this plug and plug
and play kind of app called Kajabi.
And.
And so that's essentially we've evolved to that where we're now utilizing
this resource where you can just upload these videos and you create
the build yourself to how you want it.
But even still the content itself still has to be super bite sized.
The videos or the audio content has to be really accessible because
the people that you want to use it.
Don't have time, they don't have bandwidth to fiddle around and try
to figure out how to, how to navigate this app or how to access this content.
You want to make it as streamlined as possible and so that has been, as a
parent of young children myself, like it's been so important to utilize technology
as, as best as we can so that our audience feels empowered to, to use it.
Even down to okay, we'll have a web, we'll have a web app, but I never have, if I'm
not working, I'm not at my computer, I'm not going to sit there and watch a 10
minute video of two experts talking about potty training I don't have time for that.
If I do have time, I am on my toilet or I'm breastfeeding and I have five minutes
to myself to learn something new that will help me become a better parent and
so, sorry about the toilet reference, but it's super relatable, I think, to
Raph: it's,
Shadi: You don't have a lot of time to yourself and some parents prefer
not to be on their phones while their, their kids are in the room or engaging,
you're engaging with your kids.
So yeah, you just had to make, so I think having it on these iOS and
Android interfaces and making sure that content is super bite sized.
It only needs about two minutes to be read.
Oh, my kid's coming home from daycare.
I just want to do a meaningful activity about gentleness because this is
something that they could really utilize right now with a new baby in the house.
And I just have two minutes to just look for an activity.
Okay.
I'm going to go to my phone and I'm going to, learn a new activity
with some of the dollar store craft supplies that I have in the basement.
That's basically what we have created.
And I'm very proud of it because it took a long time to get there.
And a lot of the qualitative, quantitative feedback that we were getting.
So I'm, yeah that's how tech is.
And also everyone's remote.
So everything is done online on Google Meet and Zoom.
Raph: Cool.
With that, I want to dig in a little bit deeper.
If there's like anything that you found like surprising like particularly
surprising as you stepped foot into this kind of tech or even I like to say that
like tech companies, it doesn't have to just be like writing code, right?
There's tech companies that are tech enabled.
Right.
I feel like that's you.
Right.
And often there is like some custom tech and there's things that's that's
custom, it's not code, but it's like all of the sort of operational tech.
It's how you like piece things together.
And I think that does make a difference between I'll say a traditional sort
of non tech company and people who are really like heavily relying
on technology to accelerate what they're doing or to deliver like
their value to the world somehow.
And so, yeah, I'm curious what you found as you like stepped into that world.
Shadi: Trying to think of, I'm trying to put Jason's, my Jason hat on.
IOS is definitely a lot more complicated.
And things actually surprisingly move sometimes a little slower
than Android and then vice versa.
They don't work in tandem.
So if you're uploading something to Android, sometimes it could take two to
three days for it to be processed in iOS.
And so if you want to have a launch date for something, like on the front end, It's
very difficult to do that universally.
So I don't know if this answers your question, but that's something I've
learned the hard way or how long it really took us to work with a UX designer
to really understand like how this is supposed to be used in order basically
we we knew where we wanted to be, but how long it took us to get there
when it came to UX and UI was like.
A lot more dense and time consuming than I may have hoped or envisioned,
but also the more time you put into that process, the better outcomes you get.
So, those are things I think we overlook and also, there's a reason
why people study this for years because there's, it's like such a fine line
between a really dysfunctional, ugly app and a really functional, beautiful
app that is really easy to navigate.
And so putting some resources and time into investing in that,
I think is really critical.
Because yeah, you want it to be useful.
You're not creating something and putting it out there for no one to use.
Like you want it to be useful.
So yeah, I think hiring the right people and giving it enough time to
be of quality, I think is important and something I've had to learn.
Raph: Yep that makes a lot of sense to me.
Cool.
Well, with that, this is the small tech podcast, and I believe you
brought in a small tech product to plug to give a shout out to.
Shadi: other than mine, other than Tiny Souls one thing as a new parent that I
found really helpful is this app called Solid Starts, and essentially you can
just look at any food in your fridge and then you can type in pasta and
then it'll tell you how to introduce pasta, It'll tell you how to serve
pasta depending on the age of the child.
Raph: Oh, cool.
Shadi: And, it gives you choking hazards, allergies that they might be
introducing, the nutritional information and yeah, I literally, as you're
introducing food, to your baby which is around 5-6 months depending on where
you live I have found this resource extremely helpful helpful also to start
diversifying their palette exposing them to different textures different flavours.
Yeah, I did that with my son, and I'm, I just downloaded it again because
my daughter hit six months, and we've been introducing solids, so, it's,
yeah, it's been a really wonderful, and then they also have the first 75 days
of eating solids, and they actually prepare the menu for you, and you
just have to do it yeah it's a very helpful app when you're a new parent.
Raph: That's awesome.
I love this kind of I think that I find really exciting about
this question is that, you just get all of these like apps that
Shadi: you've
never heard of before.
Raph: so yeah.
And there's so many different like things that can be addressed somehow with tech.
And that you can help out some, someone who's having some problem, you could
just build a nice user interface, or maybe it is a more complex product
that just helps someone out somehow.
I do have another question I'd like to talk about a little bit which is I'm
curious to hear, Your thoughts on like, how do you frame, cause the way that
you present your company I forget what words you use specifically, but you talk
about having a positive impact on the world, on humanity and that's how we
like to think about our company as well.
We say that we're impact driven.
We're trying to build a more sustainable future.
And I'd love to hear more about what that means to you.
Like, how does that drive your business processes?
Does it affect your technology decisions?
Like what, how does having a positive social environmental, whatever, I guess
in your case, I don't know how you frame it, but yeah, how does having a positive
impact like fit into how you do things?
Shadi: Yeah, I mean, it's like I think having a values based for
profit, you also hire people that emulate and they share similar values.
And I think one of them, one of them is building on strengths, building
on strong positive characteristics, but also this idea of like
growth mindset plays a big part.
It's we're not, the child's, every individual's learning
is constantly developing.
We're not going to ever be a finished perfect product.
So as individuals if there is a mistake made or, something isn't working out, it's
okay, I think that what we're, in terms of what we're creating and what we're trying
to put out there, we're also practicing in the way that we operate as a company,
and how, where our values fit in terms of how we interact and how we operate.
So I've even noticed today, one of our members on the team call, he just
had a huddle and she kept cutting out because she was in her phone, she's
on her way to an appointment, but she really wanted to join the team huddle.
And one of my colleagues was like, she's persevering, it's okay, guys, we're not
going to get mad there's no point in getting angry, or, one of my colleagues
was just talking to her daughter, because her daughter is homeschooled, and she was
trying to work on some art activities.
She's you just have to be patient with yourself.
It was like, so it's just I would have never seen spoken those words
before, but now it's like part of what we're trying to create and
what we're trying to put out there.
So also are we want our team to also embody this, especially
when we're working so remotely.
Like I haven't met half of my team ever in person, but we've developed
this relationship through this mutual investment that we have on Tiny Souls.
But then also these connections that we were building through,
through the work that we do.
So, yeah.
But you look at the state of the world, you look at the level of loneliness,
depression, anxiety, but then you also look at suicide rates, you look at
bullying, and this, sense of otherness that people are, children are experiencing
in schools and in the community, and We haven't been doing, as a society, a
good job on lifting these children up and highlighting the good that they are
contributing to the world or the talents that they have and how they could be
utilized for the betterment of humanity.
And so Tiny Souls is just rooted in giving importance to this and
elevating this idea of like growth mindset, parents are never perfect.
We're always working on our skills how can we be the best parent that we can be?
But then also let's put stuff out there that giving them purpose,
understanding how they relate how they relate to one another as like
parts of one human family how they contribute, how can they contribute for
the betterment of their communities?
Like all of these are symptoms of a healing society, but if we're focusing
on putting a band aid or treating this disintegration, we'll never really get to
the world that we want to be unless we're really focusing on generating and being
proactive about how we want children to be and and nurtured and you know these
characteristics are fostered so yeah it's kind of two fold what we're trying todo
as a team externally what we're creating for the world and and this all give us
some sense of purpose and motivation.
One last thing, one of the things our investor had shared with us, he
lives in Highland Park, which there was a big kind of shooting there, I
think two summers ago during a parade.
And he was super motivated for Tiny Souls to be, released, unleashed
into the world because he's like,
Raph: Yeah.
Shadi: shouldn't have access to, these guns and this like harmful, if a child
was exposed to Tiny Souls early on, like this is, it seems a bit extreme,
but if a child, if this child who went and, unfortunately, sadly shot a bunch
of people had, been exposed to this, idea that they're created noble that
they have all these capacities as gifts to share with the world, would they
have gone and done such a cruel thing?
I don't know.
Who knows, but it's better to try than not to try at all.
Raph: Totally.
I love that.
That was a great, yeah, a great description.
I think it's it's a great way to think about how you organize
yourself, your team, your product, your thinking around the world.
And yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for sharing
Shadi: Yeah.
My pleasure.
Thanks so much for this opportunity.
It was really nice to reflect with you and yeah, to share sometimes when you're
just talking, you're like, Oh yeah, that's something we can do better at,
like just the soundboard is really nice.
Raph: Yeah.
Anyway.
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Shadi.
It was it was really wonderful chatting with
Shadi: you.
too, Raph.
Raph: and
Shadi: Good luck with everything.
I'm excited to see what comes of this podcast.
Raph: sounds good.
Thronmax MDrill One Pro & USB Video-1: Folks.
That was my interview with Shadi Toloui-Wallace.
And I learned so much.
I hope you did too.
Thank you so much to Shadi for coming on the show.
Definitely go check out Tiny Souls at tinysoulsmedia.com or look
for the app in the app stores.
If you haven't already subscribed to the small tech podcast, go
find us at smalltechpodcast.com.
We do all sorts of interviews like this with other brilliant entrepreneurs,
other people in the support space around building small tech products.
People really having a positive impact on the world with technology.
You can find us on YouTube, on Spotify, in.
On apple podcasts and any other podcast app really.
If you need help building a tech product, you can also come find us at goec.io.
That's G O E C dot I O.
Even if you just want to talk about your product and get some tips
and pointers, shoot us a message.
We'd love to chat.
And that's it for this episode, we all want to do something good in the world.
So go out there and build something good folks.
I'll see you in the next one.
See yeah.