Introduction: It's with like an albatross around the neck, no more like a millstone, a plumbing stone, by God.
Introduction: Got them all.
Bo: Hey there, everyone.
Bo: Welcome to a brand new episode of Heart of Horror.
Bo: A show that gets more romantic with every episode, and this is easily the most romantic episode.
Bo: The most romantic movie, certainly.
Kate: It's swoon-worthy, honestly.
Bo: And with me, as always, covered in aphids.
Kate: You know, straight off the bat, I've got a story.
Bo: All right.
Bo: Obviously, Kate Pollack, as we were talking about, let's get to the stories, though.
Kate: It was more like a train of thought that led to a story, because I was covered in something, and then...
Kate: I literally had something happen yesterday.
Kate: It's pretty graphic, though.
Bo: Well, I mean, no time like the present.
Kate: I'm so fucking glad my parents don't listen to this show.
Kate: So, okay.
Kate: So I've started seeing this guy, and I stayed on his last couple of nights, because my kid was at her dad's, so all good.
Kate: And this has never happened to me before, ever.
Kate: We were having sex, right?
Kate: It was really good.
Bo: And that had never happened to you before?
Kate: No.
Bo: It's a miracle.
Kate: It's a miracle that I've done this show for so long and never had sex.
Bo: And Anna had a child.
Kate: And had a child, yeah.
Kate: More to the point.
Kate: So we were having sex, it was going very well for me.
Kate: And it was going actually pretty fucking well for me.
Kate: And then he sort of put my legs over his shoulders, he was banging away.
Kate: In a way, to the point where the evidence of it going very, very well for me was spraying back in our faces.
Bo: It was doing what now?
Kate: It was spraying back in our faces.
Bo: Oh, wow.
Kate: On thrust, each thrust, yeah.
Bo: That's amazing.
Bo: Like cutting through the wake, almost, you know?
Bo: Like I'm picturing a boat slicing through the water, carving the tide to either side.
Bo: You're short.
Kate: So I snorted real fast.
Bo: Sorry.
Bo: Gross.
Bo: Don't apologize for that.
Kate: And then like a little, so okay, we had also, for the record, I've started off drunk.
Kate: I've been out this evening.
Kate: I've watched one really great film, one really terrible film, and me and my friends sort of decided to do some drinks after the terrible film.
Kate: Right, so yeah, anyways, so we started off without my underwear being removed.
Kate: So just like, you know, moved to the side kind of thing.
Kate: But anyway, I was having a real good time from the very get go.
Kate: And when I went to put my knickers, I'll soon say pants, but American this and sort of thing, I mean, my trousers, my underwear back on.
Kate: Turns out I had a real good time all over them.
Kate: And I didn't have any spare.
Kate: So I had to hang them up on his like clothes rack, his drying rack.
Kate: That was last night.
Kate: And then today, I had to put them back on because I had nothing else.
Kate: And I thought I would have enough time to get home and change before going to meet my friend.
Bo: Oh, no.
Kate: But I overslept because we napped.
Kate: And, well, let's just say I still haven't showered or got changed.
Bo: Wow.
Bo: You said you were just a stink of sex.
Kate: I'm fucking disgusting.
Kate: Although my friend said that she couldn't smell anything.
Kate: She said it was all fine.
Kate: So I was just like, in fairness, like I'm a pretty hydrated, clean person.
Kate: So, you know, it's like it should be OK.
Kate: But I'm definitely going to be showering after this recording.
Bo: I mean, you might want to just.
Kate: So will all of our listeners as well.
Bo: But I feel like that's true of every episode.
Bo: Like every episode should end with a cigarette and a shower.
Kate: Just wash that filth off.
Bo: Savor it for a second with the cigarette.
Bo: And then like, all right, I got to move on with my life and do something constructive.
Kate: Check in with yourself and be like, what is wrong with me?
Kate: I mean, this is literally how I feel every time I get off the phone from you.
Kate: I'm just like, oh, here we go again.
Bo: Speaking of tangentially related, but when you said being able to control yourself, it brought this to mind.
Bo: One of the guys I work with recently told me, and I work in a public high school for those of you who don't know, so a senior teacher in the school told me that...
Kate: When you say senior, do you mean that they're old or that they've been there a while?
Bo: No, I mean grade 12 teacher.
Kate: Okay.
Kate: I'm just talking for my imagination.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: So by senior teacher, I just mean he teaches seniors.
Bo: That's our grade 12.
Bo: Sorry.
Bo: So anyway, it tells me the other day that one of the kids in his class was just like straight jerking off under his desk.
Kate: You're joking.
Bo: No.
Bo: I mean, it doesn't have it out, but it's over the clothes.
Kate: Over what?
Bo: But what?
Kate: Over what?
Kate: What are they wanking over?
Kate: I mean, I suppose it's that age you can literally wank over.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: I mean, these are like 17 year olds, so they're just, you know, they have an erection by default.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: And anyway, but apparently he just couldn't control himself, couldn't hang on to get to the bathroom or whatever.
Bo: But apparently did it to completion.
Kate: How do you concentrate in that environment?
Kate: I have so many questions.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: I mean, I don't have all of the questions that you want to ask here, I'm sure.
Kate: I just, how do you, I mean, how do you, you got everyone, like, how do you, I just, I don't understand.
Kate: Like, what did the kids say?
Kate: The kids must have known.
Bo: No, the kids absolutely knew and have been chastising this child ever since.
Bo: And better yet, the teacher was like, yeah, like, I wrote him up for it, obviously, and submitted, you know, an administrative referral, but it hasn't been processed yet.
Bo: So like the kids just come to us, right?
Bo: Do I come to school every day?
Bo: Like he wasn't just jerking off at class.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: Like, hang on.
Kate: He's done this more than once.
Bo: No, no, no, no.
Bo: I mean, as far as I know, there's only been the one incident, but it's just gone unaddressed.
Kate: Is he like the weird kid?
Bo: I mean, he's got to be right.
Kate: There was this kid at my school.
Kate: Have I told the story?
Kate: There's this kid at my school who one time I saw humping the table leg and he was a weird kid and there were these rumors.
Kate: Okay, they were rumors and they probably weren't true because you know how rumors are at school, right?
Kate: But apparently like him and his sister.
Bo: Oh, no, no, no.
Bo: That's not cool.
Kate: What also not cool is she is mentally disabled.
Kate: It might have been just bullshit mean kid rumors.
Bo: That is an Epstein level of gross.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: Oh my goodness.
Kate: All right.
Bo: Well, let's look, we've got problems of our own to discuss without dragging incest into this for our episode tonight, because we're not talking about healthy love.
Bo: No, we're talking about the Billy Friedkin movie from 2006 called Bug, and this is the director of the fucking Godfather, not Godfather, Exorcist.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: I'm actually calling him Billy, like, you know, your old pals.
Bo: My old buddy Billy.
Bo: Look, he's dead now.
Bo: And so there's nothing he can say to disprove my claim that he and I were good friends.
Bo: As far as anyone listening knows, Billy, Billy Free and me.
Kate: It just sounded like the kind of, I don't know, I guess it's because it kind of sounded to me like me and Dufre, but like Billy Free and me, like some sort of kind of like a Hallmark movie type.
Bo: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, we were...
Kate: Like skipping down the path, you know, arm in arm.
Bo: I mean, practically a buddy cop movie.
Kate: Basically.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: And so BF, I called him.
Bo: So BF directed this movie.
Bo: It was one of his later films and didn't get a lot of attention, which is kind of a bummer because I think it's one of his better movies from that period.
Bo: It's got...
Bo: So the cast is Michael Shannon, who's fucking amazing in this.
Kate: So good in this.
Bo: And Ashley Judd, who kind of had a hot hand.
Bo: She was in like that Kiss the Girls movie or something.
Kate: Yeah, but she got fucked over by Weinstein and she, so.
Bo: Yeah, which is a real bummer, because she's quite good in this too.
Bo: And then Harry Connick Jr.
Bo: is kind of the other big name in the movie.
Bo: And this was at a time when, you know, they were trying to make fetch work.
Bo: And try to convince us all that Harry Connick Jr.
Bo: could be in movies.
Bo: And like the one I think of is Copycat.
Bo: Like that's the Harry Connick Jr.
Bo: performance I go to in my head.
Kate: Yes, yes, every time.
Bo: Which isn't great.
Bo: It's, and it, because he's not a great actor.
Bo: He's fine, but he's not great.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: And when you're going up against Michael Shannon and Ashley Judd in this movie, who are like going, like taking big swings performance wise.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: And I, I don't, I just don't think he hangs.
Bo: But we'll get to all that in a minute first.
Bo: That's just what we're going to be talking about.
Bo: A little preview, a little susan of what's to come.
Bo: But speaking of coming, do we have a story of somebody coming with or around a ghost, alien or weird object?
Kate: No, no, he does.
Kate: So this is off of Reddit.
Kate: Yeah, so what's fun about this is there's an interesting sort of reply to it as well, which I didn't hear about, which is I'm going to look more into for next episode, I think, because that's fun, but I just didn't have time.
Kate: Okay.
Kate: So I'll do this one.
Bo: On account of all the, you know, coming.
Kate: And movie watching.
Kate: I watched two movies at the cinema today and stuff.
Bo: Yeah, but the more fun story is you having underwear that could like crawl away on its own.
Kate: And I've had college and I've been like, balls deep lol, in the Kendrick Lamar versus Drake fucking drama, beef shit.
Bo: Well, sure, who isn't?
Kate: Who isn't, right?
Kate: So I've been busy, I've been busy.
Kate: Anyway.
Kate: Hi, I've never posted that.
Kate: So this is from i underscore is underscore potato.
Bo: I is potato, got it.
Kate: Yeah, spelled wrong though.
Kate: Potato's got an E on the end in this one.
Kate: And it says, this girl in my class claims to have had sex with a ghost.
Kate: So, hi, I've never posted any, speaking of the weird kids, I have never posted anything here because I rarely use this, but I really need to take this off my chest.
Kate: I've got this girl in my classroom that's a bit weird.
Kate: A lot of people make fun of her, but just because she's insufferable and talks about disrespectfully to the teachers, and it's generally a weirdo.
Kate: That'll do it.
Kate: I've been her friend time ago, probably meant a long time ago, but stopped because of a non-consented kiss she gave me.
Kate: I know she's a very spiritual person and believes in Celtic mythology and gods and whatever.
Kate: She also mentioned that she wants to become a druid when she's grown up, which is weird because why would you go to an art school in Italy then?
Bo: Yeah, fair point.
Kate: I happened to figure out that she has a boyfriend as I saw her write something on the chalkboard in a language and in a font I didn't recognize.
Kate: She wrote something that she explained to me was her name, X, another name with some hearts around it.
Kate: Now I don't believe in ghosts.
Kate: I've had, sorry.
Kate: I hardly did as I believe it's ridiculously stupid.
Kate: Even if I had some paranormal activities in my house once in a while.
Kate: Nothing too spooky, just lights turning off randomly.
Kate: She explained to one of my friends that the other name belonged to this guy that we'll call Fred.
Kate: Fred is apparently dead, but she told us that they're in a relationship.
Kate: Okay, she may be delusional or something.
Kate: I can understand that, but I found out just this morning that apparently she told one of my other friends that she had a full, she had full, sorry, he's went and had a full intercourse.
Kate: She had full intercourse with this ghost.
Kate: She explained that while she was at the park near our school, she had summoned this ghost and that afterwards they had sex.
Kate: She included that she could feel the, quote unquote, spirits inside along with a sticky ghost substance after the whole deal.
Bo: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, a sticky ghostly substance?
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: Okay, just making sure.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: I'm making my notes over here, okay.
Kate: But it didn't spur in the face.
Kate: She didn't add anything else, but she's known to be a witch.
Kate: So I'm afraid she might curse me or something if me and my friends ask him more details.
Kate: This isn't the only weird thing that she's done, but I hope that she's just mentally unstable or whatever.
Kate: And she dreamt all this because if this shit is real, I'm gonna kill myself.
Kate: Shout out to Fred the ghost for getting laid by the girl in my class.
Kate: Good job, homie.
Kate: Just hope she isn't pregnant because I don't want to deal with her and her ghost babies.
Bo: First of all, I feel like the author of the post was a little too sarcastic.
Kate: He's very judgy.
Kate: I feel right.
Bo: Not approaching it from a scientific point of view.
Kate: No, that's yes.
Kate: There's definitely bias here.
Bo: Right.
Bo: Thumb on the scale.
Bo: Like the way that I'm writing this is meant to suggest that all of this is a little bit ridiculous.
Bo: Yeah, as opposed to the kind of investigative journalism we do.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: Where we try to get to the professionals, right?
Bo: Right.
Bo: Professionals.
Bo: God damn it.
Bo: Any further evidence for the court?
Kate: No, that is literally just this.
Kate: But then there was a comment from someone who's said, as I said, I probably would have looked more into this if I'd had the time, but reminds me of the women.
Kate: Maybe you've heard about this.
Kate: Reminds me of the women to claim to have had sex with Michael Jackson's ghost.
Kate: And actually got pregnant and wanted the Jackson's siblings to take a DNA test because it would show that her child was Michael Jackson's, even though he'd been dead for years when the kid was born.
Kate: So I'll be looking into that one.
Bo: All right.
Bo: Well, yeah.
Bo: Put a pin in that listeners.
Bo: Okay, so this seems like a fairly straightforward example, straightforward for us anyway.
Kate: Yeah, as professionals.
Bo: Professionals of a young girl.
Bo: And are we talking high school, college age?
Kate: I'm hoping like at least high school, but it doesn't say.
Kate: Probably, I don't know, his syntax and grammar is fucking appalling.
Kate: That's why I paused so many times because I was like, that's not how that goes.
Bo: Probably high school in Europe or a PhD in America.
Kate: Yeah, well it says about her being like art school in Italy, so probably college.
Kate: Like she's probably over on like a scholarship or something, huh?
Bo: Yeah, okay.
Bo: So, and by the poster's own admission, this is a girl that's a little, you know, yeah, a little off the beaten path.
Kate: Yeah, a few sandwiches, sort of a pinnacle.
Bo: Yeah, so yeah, a couple olives short of a deli tray.
Bo: Yeah, yeah.
Bo: So I'm thinking that this is probably just a, hey, aren't I weird and unique kind of thing.
Bo: Like I wanna believe this is true, obviously.
Bo: You know, I mean, not just for Fred's benefit or for the young ladies, it doesn't sound like it was non-consensual.
Kate: No, she sounds, although I'm really hoping that it's not like a defense mechanism for something worse.
Bo: Oh, right.
Bo: It turns out that Fred is actually uncle Fred who's very much alive.
Bo: He just happens to be, you know, haunting Utah and comes to town once every two months.
Bo: Oh yeah, you're probably right.
Bo: Like I'm like making light of all of this and there's probably a horrible tragedy at the core of it, you know?
Kate: Yeah, hopefully not.
Kate: Hopefully it's just she's batshit.
Bo: Yeah, that'd be great.
Bo: That's kind of the best case scenario here is that she's just crazy.
Bo: I mean, she's happy.
Bo: Well, best case scenario is that, you know, all of this is on the up and up and she and a ghost both got laid and had a good time.
Kate: Yeah, hopefully she's happy, it's all consenting and she's just a bit delulu.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: You know, I'm at the point now, though, where the idea of dating a ghost, not the craziest thing I've ever heard.
Kate: Yeah, and also as well, like, I don't know, the ghosts that we've come across for the most part, come across.
Bo: It's a mature show too, that's what I like.
Kate: I'm such an infant.
Kate: Yeah, like the ghosts that we've sort of like read about and things, they seem to have like some integrity, do you know what I mean?
Kate: Like they're like, usually they're pretty loyal and like, they're intelligent and stuff like that.
Kate: So, maybe she's just found an old soul, not too old, who, it's just maybe a little bit lonely in the afterlife and she's all like in tune with it, cause she's a self-proclaimed witch and whatnot.
Kate: And like, and they just, they found each other in the playground.
Bo: The sexiest of all places.
Kate: The sexiest of all.
Kate: Well, apparently it's more sex in the fucking classroom, I can tell you that.
Kate: Well, yeah.
Bo: Yeah, again, a teenage boy, any port in a storm.
Kate: Yeah, and he holds a goal.
Bo: Yeah, it's really true.
Bo: Like when I was that age, my move was our downstairs couch.
Bo: Like I'm not saying I fucked that couch, but I'm saying I definitely got to third base with that couch.
Kate: For girls with the couch, it's the armrest.
Bo: Yeah, sure.
Kate: My friend, who will remain nameless, when she was like too young to even realize what was happening, like not like, you know, three or anything, but she was like, I don't know, 10.
Kate: She by accident made herself have her first orgasm on the armchair, on like the arm of the chair.
Bo: What did she think when it happened?
Bo: Was she like, holy shit, that was amazing.
Kate: Yeah, but then she was just like, I have questions.
Kate: Yeah, she didn't really expand too much beyond that, but I was just like, no fucking way.
Kate: But yeah, the arm on the sofa, pretty reliable.
Bo: Look, many a couch has been the first lover of many a team.
Bo: Not only is it a perfectly reliable sleeper sofa, it's oh so much more.
Kate: It's layers.
Bo: Yeah, there's definitely a layer.
Kate: Lair of summon.
Bo: All right, well, let's talk about this movie.
Bo: This was the first time you'd seen this.
Kate: Yeah, yeah.
Kate: I hadn't actually even heard of it.
Kate: Or maybe I'd heard of it, but I'd literally heard the name.
Kate: I hadn't heard anything else about it.
Kate: I didn't know who was in it.
Kate: I didn't know the premise, nothing.
Bo: Are you like me and when Michael Shannon shows up in a movie or are you like, oh, good?
Kate: Yes, yes.
Kate: 100%.
Kate: I'm like, yeah, this will be a good time.
Kate: This will have something to it, this film.
Kate: I really enjoy it.
Kate: Do you know what's funny, actually?
Kate: Because his character and the way that he was kind of reminded me a lot of Peter Evans in his performances sometimes.
Kate: And this character is called Evan Peters.
Kate: Oh, hang on.
Kate: Wait, is it Evan Peters?
Bo: No, no, it's Peter Evans.
Kate: Evan does remind me of Peter, Evan Peters, but he's called Peter Evans in this one.
Kate: So that was quite funny because I didn't realize, like, that that was his name in it at first.
Kate: Like, and I was just like, oh, it's kind of like that kind of sort of awkward, but like hot guy awkward.
Bo: You know, like, well, yeah, when you first meet him.
Bo: The first meeting.
Bo: Yes.
Bo: So the premise is Ashley Judd is down on her luck living somewhere in the south.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: In a motel.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: Living in a motel, working in a bar at night, what you're doing to, yeah, way too many drugs.
Bo: Sort of, not really, I don't want to say dating, hanging out with a lady who works with her, and they've kind of shacked up together a little bit, or, you know, they've got at least a little bit of a relationship going on.
Kate: I just thought that they were friends.
Bo: I felt like it was a little bit more than that.
Bo: Not like full on.
Kate: I mean, I know they kind of like share kind of a good bikers, but like I've kissed girlfriends goodbye on the lips.
Bo: Maybe so.
Kate: It just felt like it was like, you know, I think like if they if they wanted to, they could like, I know that sounds obvious, but like, I feel like they're like, just, you know, given the right circumstances, that would definitely be a train that'd be hopping on.
Bo: Yeah, we're on the same page.
Bo: Like it's on the table.
Bo: We're both kind of aware of it.
Bo: It's Yeah, it's a thing, but it's not a thing.
Kate: And exactly.
Bo: So but you know, but but they're friendly and it's somebody she can count on and yeah, you know, and which is what she needs because what we learn is that she is also dealing with the fact that her husband as played by Harry Connick Jr.
Bo: has just gotten out of jail and it may or may not be making these late night phone calls to her motel room.
Bo: And it's a motel, not a hotel room.
Bo: It is a motel room.
Bo: It is shitty.
Bo: There is no luxury to any of this.
Bo: This is one of these like sweatiest, seediest movies you're going to see in some time.
Bo: But yeah, so enter the picture.
Bo: One night comes Michael Shannon, who is an acquaintance of this friend of hers, she could all say, yeah, and it's just like, hey, he's going to, you know, he's real quiet.
Bo: He's just going to hang out.
Bo: And initially, Ashley Judd is like, I don't want anyone else around, like just, and she's like, no, no, no, he's cool.
Bo: He's quiet.
Bo: He's going to be fine.
Bo: And as it happens, they are, you know, both kind of wound.
Bo: And initially, it seems like they're both kind of wounded people, and it's like a moment of, like, hey, if you want to hang out, that's fine, because, you know, you're not, you don't seem like you're a terrible guy and we both kind of need somebody right now.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: And like, she probably feels a bit safer with him around with these, like, phone calls coming in all the time.
Kate: She's just found out, like, her ex is now on bail or on parole or something.
Kate: And, yeah, he's on parole, isn't he?
Kate: And, you know, she probably just sort of feels kind of like a bit safer with him around because he also says as well that he's not into girls, like he's not into women.
Bo: Yeah.
Kate: Like, initially anyway.
Kate: So, like, it's kind of like, oh, okay, he doesn't really seem to be posing a threat, but he's kind of like a good sort of like very tall, broad guy who I can feel safe around, maybe hang out a bit.
Bo: Yeah.
Kate: And I think she's very lonely, isn't she?
Bo: Oh, absolutely.
Bo: And I think a lot of this movie comes back to, like, what she needs here.
Bo: You know, like, emotionally, she has no emotional support and has been through this incredible trauma.
Bo: And, you know, it's, it's, in fact, yeah, and it's just this horrible, like, like wrong place, wrong time of meeting a schizophrenic.
Bo: But which we don't know, initially, he I mean, he seems a little off.
Bo: He seems real, like, just a little odd.
Kate: Yeah, like, he kind of maybe on the spectrum, very awkward, just kind of very quiet, introverted kind of guy.
Kate: But he's like, initially, at first, it seems more like a social anxiety type thing, as opposed to, like, a dangerous thing, right?
Bo: And so that, you know, they're starting to spend a little more time together.
Bo: Mayday number one, for my money, is when she says, Well, do you have a place to stay?
Bo: And he says, Well, I'm kind of between places right now.
Bo: That's not a great size.
Kate: Like even though that she has got like, she's like, really in a bad way.
Kate: She still has like, you know, a consistent roof over her head.
Kate: It might only be a motel, but, you know, she can say, Hey, this is where I'm currently living.
Bo: Yeah, she has an address.
Kate: Yeah, like despite her circumstances, which are not fucking great.
Kate: So this guy who hasn't even got that is kind of like, ah, cool, cool, cool.
Bo: And she's like, Well, you can you can sleep on the couch.
Bo: He's like, I don't know.
Bo: I feel a little weird about that.
Bo: And she's like, No, no, no, it's fine, because we're not going to sleep in the same bed and you need somewhere to stay and all feel better if you're here because of these calls I'm getting.
Bo: So it works out for everybody.
Bo: It's a win-win.
Bo: Yeah.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: All right.
Kate0: And so just like that.
Bo: So now he's in her place.
Bo: And there's this like, ultimately kind of this weird moment where he announces to her, like, well, I really want to have sex with people, but I think I could with you.
Kate: But she's so dumb.
Kate: That's her.
Kate: That's like, Oh, cute.
Kate: Like, yes, I'm so like, me, you know, like, you're so different from other girls.
Bo: I think I can fix him.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: This broken stranger.
Bo: So they do.
Bo: They fuck.
Kate: good fucking too.
Bo: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kate: Claims to not be into it.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: I mean, some quality nipple sucking in this movie.
Bo: If that's your thing.
Kate: He's got a great buddy.
Kate: She is great.
Bo: Oh, sure.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: At first, you know, I because I keep forgetting that there's like some fairly explicit nudity in this film.
Bo: And in that first shot of her breasts, like her face isn't in it, I'm like, ah, that's probably not her, and then you see her thin here, like, oh, that's totally her.
Kate: Yeah, it's definitely her.
Bo: You know, Ashley Judd holding it down.
Kate: Good job.
Kate: Jokes.
Kate: Ashley Juggs.
Kate: I'm sorry.
Kate: I'm terrible in it.
Kate: She's hot, though.
Bo: She is.
Bo: At any rate, yeah.
Bo: So after they fuck...
Bo: Respectfully, she is hot.
Bo: Excuse me.
Bo: All right.
Bo: So after they fuck, kind of two things happen.
Bo: One, we learn that, you know, he's not gay, as he points out, like this whole, you know, I don't normally do it with women.
Bo: It's just that he's like, well, I'm kind of maybe sort of on the run.
Bo: And she's like, what did you just get out of jail or something?
Bo: Like, what the fuck is going on?
Bo: And he's like, no, no, no, it's nothing like that.
Bo: But I was in the army and just like, there's some shit going on.
Bo: I can't really talk about it.
Bo: And wait a second, is that something fucking bit me?
Bo: And then he's this is where like the shared psychosis begins.
Bo: And that's what I think the most interesting part of this movie is, is him saying, like, look, here's this little bug that I've got between my fingers.
Bo: And she's like, Oh, I don't know if I see it.
Bo: And he's like, Yeah, yeah, it's right there.
Bo: It's right there.
Bo: Okay, I think I see it.
Bo: But what is it?
Bo: And then they have this whole kind of jokey conversation about like, well, it's not an aphid.
Bo: Well, what's an aphid?
Bo: Well, an aphid is like a termite.
Bo: Well, what's a termite like?
Bo: A termite is like a termite, you know, like all this kind of stuff.
Bo: And you know, he's like, no, it's not a bed bug.
Bo: It's something else.
Kate: And what's the bed bug?
Kate: It's a bed bug.
Bo: Great.
Bo: That looks like a bed bug.
Bo: Oh, I thought it was a bed bug.
Bo: I thought that was just a nickname or something.
Bo: But and he's obviously kind of obsessed with of like, you know, well, you don't want to be sleeping in a bed with bugs, do you?
Bo: You got to get up and I'll pick up some stuff from the store tomorrow.
Bo: Cut to there are now fly strips hanging from the ceiling everywhere.
Bo: He's got like a cardboard box filled with pest spray.
Bo: And and so we've we've amped up a little bit.
Kate: Yeah, it's no lamps or anything yet.
Bo: And the tin foil has not begun.
Kate: Oh my God, the tin foil.
Bo: But you it's starting to escalate.
Bo: Like you start to feel like, okay, like in a typical horror movie.
Bo: I do feel like this is legitimately a horror film.
Kate: Oh, yeah, I do.
Bo: And it's just not, it is not the like killer bug movie.
Bo: There is another movie called Bug about killer cockroaches from the 70s.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: But I mean, if that's what you're looking for, that that's the movie to go to.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: And I recommend it.
Bo: It's a what's his name, Bradford Dillman.
Bo: He's in it.
Kate: Oh, yeah, I've not seen it.
Bo: So and they blow up their little there like cockroaches from the center of the earth.
Bo: So they're real hot and they melt shit and catch things on fire.
Kate: Oh, my God.
Bo: It's it's pretty great.
Bo: That's like in the 70s, you could make a movie about fucking anything.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: You know, Giant Killer Rabbits.
Kate: Boom.
Bo: That's a movie.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: Anyway, what the fuck are you talking about?
Bo: Oh, yeah.
Kate: But yeah, we've got the bug strips.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: So bug strips are down.
Bo: Harry Connick Jr.
Bo: Starts showing up and is like, what the fuck is going on in here?
Bo: And Michael Shannon's like, Hey, I think the lady wants you to leave.
Bo: You better get out of here, man.
Bo: Which isn't not a bad Michael Shannon.
Bo: Now, the more that I'm doing it, the more I'm sticking by it.
Bo: But yeah, so all of that stuff is ramping up.
Bo: And Ashley Judd is feeling threatened.
Bo: And Michael Shannon is kind of protecting her, which only furthers this dependency that they're forming.
Kate: And she's just generally like, even if I think even if like, her ex hadn't turned up, I think she's still in such a vulnerable place mentally, like it still would have happened anyway, just because like she's latched to this person.
Bo: Well, she has that monologue at one point where she's talking about how she sees her life.
Bo: And all of the things like she just wants all this normal bullshit to go away.
Bo: And I think that's part of her like dealing with the trauma of losing a child and having a child kidnapped, like you never really know what happens to this kid.
Bo: And you know, like she's just shattered as a person as a result of this.
Bo: And her like talking about the normal things that people occupy themselves with and how she can't relate to it and it's all bullshit and her life has to be something bigger or different.
Bo: And it's just because like, oh, well, she can't have a normal life because she's just a wreckage.
Bo: Like she is a scorched battlefield of a human being and can't like be in a real relationship and can't feel feelings properly.
Bo: Like all those things that happen with trauma and in walks this guy who's like, you know, hey, I'm gonna take care of you.
Bo: And also I think there are some bugs on you.
Kate: Yeah, no, definitely.
Kate: And like the way that, I mean, she kind of initially is just like, okay, all right.
Kate: But she so quickly kind of like gets behind this idea.
Kate: And he has this, he does have this kind of like weird kind of a pull to him.
Kate: You know, like he does kind of like draw her in.
Kate: And like, as an audience, like you do kind of feel that too.
Kate: I mean, I did.
Kate: Like I didn't, I wasn't like, hey, let's jump on the mic all the time and train here.
Kate: But like, I was like, is he like, is this a thing?
Kate: Like, you know, when he's like, when he starts talking about like the conspiracy theory stuff, I was like, is that what happened?
Kate: Is this true kind of thing a little bit?
Kate: So like, you know, if I was her in her position in her mental state and everything, like I can very much see how that could escalate so quickly, despite the fact that she does sort of at first resist it a little bit.
Kate: She's, you know, she says, I can't see the bird, like, but why is this like, where is this kind of like, you know, she does have questions, but he does quite quickly sort of either explain it away or just kind of ignore a question and distract her with something else.
Bo: Right.
Bo: Or he'll, you know, do that thing of like, I'm going to answer your question with a question.
Bo: You know, that kind of like, who would benefit if this were true?
Bo: You know, like, no, no, no, why?
Bo: You know, that's exactly what they want you to think.
Bo: And, and, and yet, like you said, there, there's moments where she's like, you've got to help me understand what the fuck you're talking about because it's starting to sound crazy, but rather like there's a moment where he kind of goes full tilt on like, oh, I was part of this government experiment, and that's why people are looking for me.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: And I think as well as humans, we don't want to, you know, as empathetic people, we don't want to diminish someone's experience, like, especially if it's a negative experience, you don't want to be like, you know, saying, well, that's bullshit or, you know, or like get over it, buddy, or, you know, anything like that.
Kate: So you kind of like, I don't want to say panda to it, but you definitely give like allowances for certain things.
Kate: Like if someone said something, you'd add that sounds a little bit unrealistic or unbelievable.
Kate: You kind of like, you don't, you know, you don't try and argue it.
Kate: You don't sort of like, you know, you're more likely to kind of accept it a little bit because you want to believe that they're being genuine about something like that.
Kate: You don't like to think that someone is going to make up stuff like that for the sake of making it up.
Kate: And although like, yes, he's like a schizophrenic and he's a paranoid schizophrenic, like she doesn't know that and she's not necessarily got the wits about her to kind of put that together and be able to take a step back from the situation to identify it for what it is.
Kate: So it's, it again, it's very sort of like understandable, like why she would get drawn into this narrative.
Bo: Yeah, and I think the term for is the Faliadu, which is like this shared sort of hallucination of this shared reality that two people who are having sort of a nervous breakdown that they're both kind of in the midst of, which I know we were talking about Rose Glass, the director of Love Lies Bleeding and St.
Bo: Maud before the show.
Bo: But I just realized like, oh, yeah, this is kind of the same ending, which is unusual, but also a movie about psychosis and a schizophrenic character.
Bo: But yeah, when he has this sort of blow up where I'm going to vomit all of this crazy bullshit at you, and she goes into the bathroom is like hiding in there as he's spewing all this stuff out.
Bo: And he's like, all right.
Bo: Well, look, I'm sorry.
Bo: I guess I'll just go.
Bo: And she's like, no, wait, don't go.
Bo: And that's the point.
Bo: Like, that's the turning point where it's like, you fucked up.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: If you'd walked out the door, then you might have been okay.
Bo: Yeah, not great, but okay.
Kate: But now she's like doubled down on it.
Kate: She's like made her made her bed on it kind of thing.
Kate: And that's it.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: And starts like, oh yeah, I see the books too.
Bo: And every time a helicopter goes over, there's a really interesting big directorial thing where inside the motel room, like the camera is bouncing around and the sound of the helicopter is just thunderous.
Bo: And then you cut the outside and it's like, it distantly like just a, you know, like barely audible, but just in their, you know, fever dream.
Kate: Everything's heightened.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: It's like this again, it's Billy Billy Free directing the shit out of this movie.
Bo: Like this is such a well directed movie.
Bo: Like even the sex scene that we were alluding to is like really well done.
Bo: It's like, you know, it's kind of hot and it's really intimate and personal.
Kate: And yeah, I'm like passionate.
Bo: Yeah.
Kate: And like there's that really kind of good sort of like that kind of yellow lighting where it's like, because it's it's that kind of like, I can't describe it, but it's like the sun, but it's musky and it's it's you kind of get that.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: Like that kind of like intimate musky kind of like, like, you know, I'm not describing this very well, but you know what I mean?
Bo: Right.
Bo: That kind of hazy look to sunset sort of thing.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: And like, it's just those two and like in that room and like the whole world has sort of disappeared kind of thing.
Bo: And yeah.
Bo: And so now that she's had that connection, you know, she's doubled down.
Bo: Her friend comes back and is like, what the fuck is going on in here?
Bo: Because the tin foil has now come out.
Bo: And covered literally everything like walls, tables, the lamps, lamps.
Bo: I mean, it's like it is.
Bo: It is the home of someone who has lost their fucking mind.
Bo: And Michael Shannon has started like looking at slides of his blood under a microscope to find the bugs in his blood.
Bo: Because that's right.
Kate: Sorry.
Kate: They're like, they, I mean, I don't know whether he does, but like they probably wouldn't even know what they were looking at.
Kate: And like, but anything kind of like, you know, that looks a little bit strange.
Kate: Oh, that's it.
Kate: That's it.
Kate: I mean, like, you know, Ashley Judd definitely wouldn't know what she was looking at, looking at a blood sample.
Kate: You know, so she'll just see like, the blood particles or whatever.
Kate: I mean, I don't fucking know either.
Kate: But like, you know, whatever makes up blood, like she sees those kind of moving around in there, which is a perfectly normal thing to see in blood.
Kate: But she'll because she's now sharing this psychosis.
Kate: She's like, oh, my God, this is a thing like she looks at it.
Kate: She's like, oh, my God, it's like there, it's there.
Kate: And this is like, hon, do you even know what you're looking at?
Kate: Like, you know, like, but they've they've just convinced themselves that, like, whatever it's the thing of, like, whatever is that they were going to see something.
Bo: Yeah, well, they're just like crazy improv comics.
Bo: Yes.
Bo: And in each other.
Bo: So it's like, you know, hey, I've got, you know, there are these bugs in my blood in this slide.
Bo: Yeah, I see that.
Bo: Also, I think there were some in the bathroom.
Bo: And I mean, it's just we're going to keep building this story because she doesn't want him to go away.
Bo: And she knows that if he does, if she doesn't buy into it, he leaves.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: And so he's also starts scratching himself.
Kate: So he's got like these like open wounds and they just keep like batting at themselves.
Kate: Like there's like, you know, like you do when there's a fly around, like, oh, fuck off kind of thing, but they're just constantly doing it.
Kate: And I noticed as well that whenever like he does it, she mirrors it.
Bo: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she completely imitates his behavior.
Bo: Yeah.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: And she starts getting like welts and scratches from herself doing it to herself as well.
Kate: But that's literally like, there's nothing going on there.
Kate: And like, it's, yeah, it's just crazy.
Bo: There's a scene where they order a pizza and it's a little more towards the end of the movie.
Bo: But the level of freak out at this guy showing up at their door, just like it's some pizza dude who got the wrong door.
Bo: And it's like, hey, I got a pizza.
Bo: And they're like, just leave it, leave it at the door.
Bo: And he's like, you got to pay me for it.
Bo: How much is it?
Bo: You know, he's like, it's like 14, whatever.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: And they like slide money under the door and leave it there.
Bo: And Michael Shan is like, no, no, you can't leave it out there.
Bo: You got to bring it in.
Bo: Otherwise, they'll get suspicious.
Kate: The big looming they.
Bo: Right.
Bo: You know, this government that is is out to get them because of experiments, blah, blah, blah.
Bo: And they bring the pizza in and they open it up and it like they're opening up like it could be a fucking bomb.
Bo: And there's just a regular schmigler pizza in there, but they grab like a piece of sausage or something and put it on the the microscope and Michael Shannon is like, I don't know what I'm looking at.
Bo: You look at it and actually Judd looks at it and she's like, I don't know what I'm looking at, but I don't think that's meat.
Bo: And then they like freak out at throwing the pizza away.
Kate: Freak out.
Bo: Oh, the sons of bitches like they're trying to fool us.
Bo: And it's just like they have just lost their fucking minds at this point.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: And that's like that.
Kate: God, it's an amazing scene.
Kate: Like the two of them are just so intense, where he's building this narrative into her narrative.
Kate: And it's like the yes and game kind of thing.
Kate: And she's linking these things over nothing.
Kate: Like she's like, it's just making up a story like this, like making these links that just do not exist about him and then how it ties into her kid.
Bo: Yeah, like her kid was kidnapped so that the government could orchestrate them meeting each other so that they could form this bond and have sex and create this super bug.
Bo: And like...
Bo: Right, at one point she's like, I'm the mother queen.
Bo: And through the course of the movie, he's like pulling teeth out because an egg sack was beneath it.
Bo: And so before the final crescendo, we've got to talk about the doctor showing up.
Bo: Which happens a little bit before the pizza scene, but I mean, who cares?
Bo: It's in the throes of them being crazy.
Bo: And Michael Shannon is asleep or in the bathroom or something.
Kate: Yeah, I think he's asleep.
Bo: Yeah, I think that's right.
Bo: And so the doctor shows up in this neon lit aluminum foil nightmare and is like, what the fuck is going on?
Bo: And she's like, you're here to collect them.
Bo: He's like, what did he tell you again?
Bo: Because I'm his doctor and he's just gone off his meds.
Bo: And he's like, you know, a paranoid schizophrenic.
Bo: And he starts to put together like, oh, she's kind of bananas too.
Bo: And then Michael Shannon wakes up and comes in and he just has to like shift gears.
Bo: The doctor does where he's like, okay, I'm going to tell him like, okay, you're right.
Bo: All of this, all of what you're saying is true.
Bo: And I was blackmailed into like being your project handler and blah, blah, blah.
Bo: And the whole time he's like getting a trink ready to be like, I got to put this guy down and we got to throw him in a truck and take him to a mental hospital.
Bo: But before you can do that, he goes to stab him with the hypodermic needle.
Bo: But Michael Shannon, who has like this big ass first blood part two knife just carves up this doctor like nobody's business.
Kate: He's convinced that he's a machine and that he's like from the government.
Kate: He's like this.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: And he's like, he's not real.
Kate: He's not real.
Kate: And like, look, look, I'm proving it.
Kate: And it's like, it's so sad.
Kate: Like I just found it so sad because I found it.
Kate: I found I was just I felt so sorry for literally everyone in that scene because, you know, like obviously the doctor, poor fucking guy, just trying to sort of help Michael Shannon out and stuff, doing the best that he can by himself in this fucking mental situation and like getting murdered.
Kate: And then just it's very sad with Michael Shannon's character because he genuinely believes in what he's saying.
Kate: And he's going, look, look, he's improving.
Kate: Like he's not real.
Kate: I'm proving it.
Kate: And like and all you can see when you're, you know, as an audience, you're just like, it's just a guy.
Kate: You've just killed a guy.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: And he's just a man.
Bo: He's like grabbing her hand and putting it on the wound.
Bo: Like, see it, see it.
Bo: It's not.
Bo: It's not real skin.
Bo: And like licking the blood off his hands, like that's not blood that I'm tasting.
Bo: You know, like, you know, they sent a machine.
Bo: He doesn't know what he's saying.
Bo: He's, you know, he'll say anything.
Bo: That's what he's programmed to do.
Kate: He'll say anything to get you to leave with him and all of this.
Bo: Right.
Bo: And that's kind of the thing that tees off the final, you know, like that bit of improv where they one up each other until she's like, okay, yes, I like you had the drone in your body.
Bo: I am the queen and all of these.
Bo: Like you said, it's so sad because she's like, all of the bugs in this place are our children, and they'll never leave us.
Bo: And you're like, oh, fuck.
Bo: Well, this couldn't be more obvious what this breakdown you're having is about.
Bo: But also, there's just nobody.
Bo: There's no safety net in her life.
Bo: There's nobody there to stop this from happening.
Kate: No, because even when RC turns up and stuff, she's just like, what the fuck?
Kate: And she's trying to convince her to go and get out of there and get away from Michael Shannon and stuff.
Kate: But by that point, Ashley does just...
Kate: She's not as in it as she gets, but she's in it enough to stay and to ignore her friend.
Kate: And Michael Shannon's like, oh, no, no, no, she's part of it.
Kate: They sent you in to...
Kate: Again, so the one person that she has that could maybe get her out, she's just brainwashed into being convinced that she's also part of this conspiracy and their friendship was never real.
Kate: It's just...
Kate: Obviously, he's very ill.
Kate: I don't think he's trying to do anything outside of this mental illness, if that makes sense.
Bo: He's convinced this is all true.
Kate: Yeah, he's not being vindictive.
Kate: He genuinely thinks that what he's saying is real.
Kate: And he just convinces her that this one lifeline that she has convinces her that no, no, no.
Kate: She's part of the problem and isolates her so completely into this shed psychosis and this motel room of madness, you know?
Bo: That's my new movie, The Motel Room of Madness.
Kate: The Motel Room of Madness.
Kate: Yeah, I think it's going to sell well.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: I mean, it writes itself.
Bo: It does, yeah.
Bo: Really, it's just a remake of Bug.
Kate: Yeah, but with a cooler title.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: Pardon me.
Bo: But yeah, so after they come to this realization, they decide, well, we can't let the world ruin.
Bo: Like, if they come in here, they'll take us away from each other, and they'll destroy all our bug children.
Bo: And so we're going to go the Jamestown route of like, you can't fire us, we quit.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: So we're going to...
Bo: And again, it's very Saint Maude in a lot of ways, where they douse the whole place with gasoline, and then strip down naked, and douse each other with gasoline while saying, I'm the drone, I am the mother queen.
Bo: And then out comes the box of matches.
Bo: And one of the things that I think is really interesting in this moment is that she's the one who takes the match out of the box.
Bo: Like she is complicit in it entirely.
Bo: There is no question that she is like, yes, we should set ourselves on fire right now.
Kate: Yeah, it's definitely like a shared action.
Kate: You know, he picks up the matches, she picks out the match.
Kate: Like it's, yeah, it's not just him leading it.
Bo: Except at the very, very last minute, or the very last like nanosecond where she seems like as soon as the match is struck and the fire starts, there is that moment of like, oh shit, I'm about to die.
Bo: And maybe I have made some poor decisions along the way.
Kate: Yeah, it's a slight moment of clarity.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: But then it's just an explosion and it's all, like they're gone and you know, the motel is probably condemned at that point.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: But yeah, and you know, there's this weird kind of interstitial moment in the credits where it's like a phone ringing and like near a child's hat or something, that I'm sure it's a nod to the kid, but I'm not exactly sure what that's about.
Bo: But still, so this being your first experience before we get into the relationship stuff, how do you feel about Bug having experienced it for the first time?
Kate: Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
Kate: It was a very original film, I thought.
Kate: It's essentially a single location and it was based on a play.
Kate: And when I read that afterwards, I thought, oh my God, I can so see that this was like a play because it's so sort of like dialogue heavy and it's just between mainly these two characters that just sort of bounce off each other and create this narrative for themselves.
Kate: And then the way that these two characters come together, both sharing like not the same trauma, but just sharing in trauma having been experienced.
Kate: And it's kind of beautiful in a way, but in that really like awful way.
Kate: It's just like a perfect storm of shit, you know?
Kate: And it was just a film that was like, I wish I could sort of show what my facial expression was like, but I basically had the same expression throughout watching most of this film, which was this slight, like, what the fuck?
Kate: So, like, you know, I'm just like, oh, no, oh, no, don't.
Bo: Yeah, it's an incredibly tense viewing experience.
Kate: It's really intense, yeah.
Kate: And do you know what's so weird is the day after I watched it, I had an like a missing kid experience with my own child.
Kate: Yeah, I was in a supermarket and I was looking at the books and because always and I had said to my kid, so the book aisle is the same aisle as the toy aisle.
Kate: It's just either side.
Kate: So I'll look at the books and surely the look at the books to or she'll look at the toys and I'll tell her, no, I'm not buying that for you.
Kate: And because it would just be shy.
Kate: I don't mind buying her stuff every now and then.
Kate: I'm going to be like one of those months that just says no, but like usually it's crap that I'm like, I'm not spending 15 quid on that.
Kate: No, but I like, you know, she can look at that.
Kate: I'll look at the stuff that I'll also go.
Kate: No, Kate, you're not buying that.
Kate: You've got too many things.
Kate: And anyway, so I turned around and she was gone.
Kate: And I went around to the other side, because there's another aisle that has toys.
Kate: I was like, maybe she's there.
Kate: No.
Kate: And I'm like, look at going back and forth.
Kate: And I'm like, where is she?
Kate: And we were looking at clothes earlier.
Kate: I picked up some summer dresses for her, because the weather's just turned for summer.
Kate: And so I was like, maybe she's gone back there.
Kate: So I went a few miles down to the clothing aisle, and she's not there either.
Kate: And I'm by this point freaking out.
Kate: And I'm shouting her name, and I'm panicking, and I'm running up and down the aisles.
Kate: I cannot find her anywhere.
Kate: I then go to security and tell security, I'm like, my child is missing.
Kate: And you know, like when you're in panic mode, you know, just the, I don't know, maybe this doesn't happen to you, but like the stupidest thoughts just end to your head.
Kate: And all I could think about was like, I have 36 hours, you know, like because of all the fucking crimes I watch, you know, like it wasn't even like a logical thought.
Kate: It wasn't like, I know this in fact, I'm like writing Criminal Minds, they said that there's 36 hours more like taken, is this 36 hours?
Kate: And I'm just like, fuck sake, Kate, this is not a film fucking focus, you know, cause your mind just panics.
Kate: And so I'm like telling security guard and there's this, you know, the other moms are like, what's she look like?
Kate: What's she wearing?
Kate: And I'm like going, oh my God, this is not happening.
Kate: This is so fucking insane.
Kate: Like this cannot be happening.
Kate: This doesn't, you know, this doesn't happen.
Kate: And the security guard puts it over the tannoy and he says, go back to where you were, like in case she comes back.
Kate: And so I go back and she's still not there.
Kate: And the whole while I'm still looking around the aisle, still shouting her name and everything.
Kate: And I'm like hyperventilating by this point.
Kate: And then like I turn around and the security guard's waving and he's like, come here, come here.
Kate: She's here, she's here.
Kate: And a mum, another mother had found her and brought her back.
Kate: And it turns out what had happened is she had gone to the chocolate bar aisle.
Kate: And in that time, I had realized she's gone and then I've gone off.
Kate: She's come back to find me missing as well because I've gone off looking for her.
Kate: And then so she's wandered off the other way.
Kate: And it's just wandering off a different part of the supermarket to where I'm at.
Kate: And we both just like clung to each other crying and everything.
Kate: And it was just the single worst moment of my fucking life.
Kate: And it was just so mental how that happened the day after I watched this film.
Kate: I'm so glad that it happened after I watched this film.
Kate: Because I think if I had that experience watching this film, before watching this film, I think I probably would have been like, oh shit.
Kate: And I just, God, everything goes through your mind.
Kate: And I was just like, oh my God.
Kate: And do you know what's so weird?
Kate: I was like, Michael, like her dad, I was just like, Michael's gonna be so fucking mad at me.
Kate: And I just like, it was just the dumbest thoughts were going through my mind.
Kate: But yeah, like, so, you know, obviously that hadn't happened to me when I watched this film.
Kate: So it was very intense watching anyway.
Kate: But like, I was thinking, obviously when I found her and she was fine and we were fine, we went and got a lot of ice cream, went home and just cuddled on the sofa watching cosy films and eating ice cream.
Kate: You know, but after I'd sort of like calmed down and like, it's okay, it's okay.
Kate: I was like thinking about this film and I was thinking like, Jesus Christ, I can completely, like I understood her, like Ashley Judd's character as a character anyway, just, you know, cos, and I was like, fuck, I really understand that cos I probably, I don't know what I would have done.
Kate: I would have probably been breaking down.
Kate: And like, I think as well, when you have a missing child, and you don't have the closure of even, even no matter how horrible knowing what happened to them is, because it's never going to be good, is it?
Kate: But like, not having that closure and always wandering and always being on the lookout and always seeing, like, you know, at the peripherals, you know, seeing your kid or like looking for headlines, you know, just constantly searching, constantly, like, blaming yourself and, you know, 10 years of that, because I think she said it was like 10 years ago, I think, wasn't it?
Kate: And like 10 years of that, like, yeah, I can imagine getting to her point, you know, and just being so vulnerable to having some sort of explanation as to what happened and sort of taking that burden away from me.
Kate: Yeah, and as well, it's not like she was even distracted by books like I was.
Kate: She had him in the pram, the trolley.
Kate: He's technically strapped in, and she looked away for a second.
Kate: And so she wasn't doing anything wrong.
Kate: She wasn't doing anything that anybody else couldn't have done.
Kate: You know, so yeah, like she she I understand why she feels guilty.
Kate: She shouldn't feel guilty because it's a situation that could have literally happened to anyone.
Kate: She wasn't being neglectful.
Kate: She wasn't doing anything out of turn.
Kate: But like not only the guilt that you would naturally feel from being the person responsible for that child and losing that child, but then on top of that, the other person that's supposed to be your support network also blaming you.
Kate: Just I can't imagine the crushing guilt of that.
Kate: Just I can't like, yeah, yeah, it'd be awful.
Kate: And and then, yes, so having this person that says, hey, it's OK, and it's actually not your fault.
Kate: And actually, this whole thing was a setup.
Kate: And we're here now.
Kate: And this is why.
Kate: And it was actually your husband who, like, you know, took him and passed him over and on all the rest of it.
Kate: Like, you know what?
Kate: I would go a little crazy if it meant accepting that.
Bo: Yeah, yeah, of course, of course.
Kate: But yeah, this film was like a yeah, it was definitely an experience and it was a very intense viewing.
Kate: And it was just so, as you said, like the direction on it was amazing and the performances were so good and they had to carry a film like this.
Kate: You have to be so in it and those two work so well together.
Kate: They had such a good chemistry, I thought, especially when shit hits the fan, you know, like, and it just escalates and escalates.
Kate: Yeah, I thought it was a really, really good film.
Bo: Yeah, great.
Bo: So sorry, that sounded more dismissive than I meant it.
Bo: But I was also thinking, like, OK, I want to transition to how, like, you know, because we have a bit of a theme in mind for this.
Bo: And with this film, it only seemed right to talk about those relationships that you find yourself in.
Bo: And somewhere along the way in the relationship, you realize that you're like, oh, I am not being I am not being myself for the sake of this person.
Bo: Or that, you know, you're just with somebody that's just so full of drama and shit as I've had that experience that you kind of get caught up in that before you realize like, oh, shit, I don't have to do this.
Bo: This is nonsense.
Bo: This is not how normal people live their life.
Kate: What was your experience with that?
Bo: It was a woman I dated, we lived together very briefly, mostly as a result of her being a fucking lunatic.
Bo: But it was, yeah, it was one of those situations where I found myself making a lot of little concessions of like, hey, and maybe it's because I'm a bit of a people pleaser at heart and that gets me into some fucking trouble.
Bo: But of like, yeah, we'll listen to whatever music you want to listen to all the time and I'll listen to the music I actually like, you know, in the car.
Bo: Right.
Kate: Right.
Bo: But it was a lot of that of like, I found myself compartmentalizing and shutting the doors on like significant parts of myself as we were dating until I realized like, oh, I am I am being this person that she just kind of wants me to be as opposed to the person I really am.
Bo: And that is making me miserable and and also a little angry once I realized that it was happening.
Bo: It was like, well, you know, if she doesn't if she doesn't like me for the kind of shit I get up to, then what the fuck are we doing here?
Kate: Well, yeah, yeah, I think it's like, quite, especially because I'm a people pleaser as well.
Kate: Like, there's there's a part of me where I'm like, I don't give a shit.
Kate: But then there's but for particular people, I very much give a shit, you know?
Kate: And I think it is quite easy to sort of find yourself in that kind of that kind of trap.
Kate: And as you say, it's very like subtle things at first, it's very like little things and you don't really think about it.
Kate: And then all of a sudden, like, what, who the fuck, who the fuck is this person?
Kate: This is not who I am at all.
Kate: And it's, you know, and you end up sort of, as you say, giving up parts of yourself and changing these things.
Kate: And it's like, but why?
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: Like, there's nothing wrong with this stuff that I like.
Kate: There's nothing I'm not hurting anyone.
Kate: This isn't, you know, or anything like that.
Kate: I've definitely fallen into that trap.
Kate: Like, like a quite a great deal, actually.
Kate: Like, I'm kind of coming out of that.
Kate: Like, I had been in two long term relationships pretty much back to back.
Kate: So I kind of I basically say, like, I've been in relationships from the age of 20 through to the age of 34.
Kate: That's 14 years of my adult life.
Kate: I'm only 36, to give some context, you know, so I, so I, I think I've mentioned it on the show.
Kate: I've definitely mentioned it on my other show.
Kate: I've got ADHD, and people with ADHD tend to imitate because we mask.
Kate: So we try to hide the things about us that people maybe find weird or they criticize us for.
Kate: And we essentially imitate what other people do to fit in.
Kate: And it's kind of on a subconscious level in a way, because it's like it's almost like a self-defense thing.
Kate: You know, like we camouflage ourselves and I didn't realize I am a very, very late sort of diagnosis.
Kate: So I had no idea that I had ADHD.
Kate: I never thought about it.
Kate: I only knew very kind of basic stuff about ADHD.
Kate: And I didn't realize it was like very, actually very complex and changes from person to person.
Kate: So I didn't associate any of the things that I was doing with anything like that.
Kate: I just figured that's what people did.
Kate: And, you know, like we all kind of like, you know, try to fit in or whatever.
Kate: And I realized that I had completely morphed myself into the this sort of persona of as you say, it's like what my what I thought my partner wanted me to be as opposed to actually who I am.
Kate: But because I had been doing it for so long, I actually didn't really know who I was.
Kate: I didn't actually kind of I just knew that that it wasn't this.
Kate: And I one of the things that sort of made me realize was I was work, I changed jobs, I moved location, I changed jobs, and I ended up working at the cinema and working with a bunch of people who were, we were all pretty much all of us were neurodivergent in some way.
Kate: We were all pretty much queer in some way.
Kate: And, but they were also about 10 or more years younger than me.
Kate: So they have the, you know, the, the, the actual perks of having the internet, which is have access to lots of knowledge.
Kate: They're very self aware.
Kate: They're very sort of like clued up on what's acceptable, what's not acceptable.
Kate: And I remember there was like, so we worked at the cinema and we would often watch movies after we, after the film, after the cinema shut.
Kate: And we were doing all the Spider-Man movies and build up to, I think it was Homecoming coming out.
Kate: And I wanted to stay back afterwards and watch it with them.
Kate: And I messaged my ex and I was like, oh hey, would it be okay if I stayed back?
Kate: And then he was just like, no, I want you to come home.
Kate: And I said to the guys, I was like, oh no, I'm not coming tonight.
Kate: And they're like, oh, why not?
Kate: And I was just like, oh, you know, he wants me home.
Kate: And they were like, what?
Kate: And I was like, what?
Kate: And they were like, why did he want me home?
Kate: And I was like, oh, I don't know.
Kate: And they were like, dude, that's fucked.
Kate: Like, why are you asking permission?
Kate: And I was like, because why am I asking for?
Kate: And it was like a real kind of like light bulb moment where I'd realized that this behavior I had just been, I just adopted where I was asking permission to do perfectly reasonable things with my time.
Kate: And bearing in mind, it was like after midnight, he would have just been in bed, you know?
Kate: It's not like he'd had like an evening set up for us or anything like that.
Kate: He'd have just been in bed, you know, it wouldn't have made any difference to him.
Kate: And I realized that I did stuff like that.
Kate: I was constantly asking him permission for things.
Kate: I would constantly feel bad for doing anything for myself.
Kate: I was dressing in particular ways.
Kate: And I also realized that I hadn't been, apart from people who I was kind of thrust into a situation with, like at work, I actually hadn't been making any genuine connections with anybody after moving, because what I realized was that the persona that I was presenting was extremely different to the person who I actually am, who I actually was.
Kate: And so whenever I sort of attracted a certain type of person, like just as a friend, you know, just like whatever, I wasn't connecting with them because I had nothing in common with them, because the person who I was presenting was a completely different person to who I actually am.
Kate: Does that make sense?
Kate: And then I start working at this cinema with all of these like alt kids who are into rock and horror and like comics and, you know, and I was like, this is my tribe.
Kate: Like, I mean, granted they're 10 years younger than me, but like, I've always quite young at heart.
Kate: And the thing is as well, they were all pretty much traumatized.
Kate: So they all had trauma.
Kate: So they were like, you know, but they were like my little tribe and we all got on so well and they really brought myself out.
Kate: And I was like, no, this is who I am.
Kate: What the fuck am I putting up with this?
Kate: Why am I doing this?
Kate: Why am I caring so much about like this stuff at home?
Kate: Like, and I mean like dumb stuff, like, you know, getting the right shade of olive green for our kitchen, you know?
Kate: And like, why do I care about like making sure that, you know, everything is perfect and we have the right things and saving up for stuff that I never ever wanted, you know, and like, and all of these kinds of things.
Kate: And I was just like, what the fuck am I doing?
Kate: And like, since I left, I've been, I mean, I was in therapy as well.
Kate: So that also helped sort of, cause it was like, you know, time where I got to be completely honest with somebody else and also with myself.
Kate: And I've like, over the last few years, I've been like really working on myself.
Kate: And like, you saw pictures of me like, I don't know, five years ago, compared to me now, like, it's just such a huge change.
Kate: And also as well, like not just in terms of what I look like or how I dress, but just in terms of like, the kind of people I hang out with, the things that I engage with, like hobbies and whatever.
Kate: And also as well, like, so all the people who have known me for like a long time, like not just the people who I've met in recent years, but the people who I've known since like my 20s or whatever.
Kate: Like they like, this is the Kate, like you are happy.
Kate: You seem yourself.
Kate: Like I remember my best friend from when I was like 11, we went away with our kids.
Kate: And like for the week on like a little kind of caravan beach holiday.
Kate: And she spoke to me a few weeks later, and she was just like, I really just need to talk to you.
Kate: She was like, I don't know who that was who went on holiday with us.
Kate: She was like, you were so stressed.
Kate: You were so on edge.
Kate: You were like, you just radiated hostility.
Kate: And that was also a bit of a wake up call.
Kate: And then we went away the following year after I'd left my ex.
Kate: And she said to me near the end of the trip, she was like, you're back.
Kate: You know?
Kate: And it was just like, fuck, you know?
Kate: Like, and I've just now I'm just like, I will never do anything for, I mean, not my kid, that doesn't count.
Kate: But like, I will never do anything for anyone else again in that way.
Kate: Like, I'll never not do something for myself.
Kate: Like, I didn't get tattoos for like these entire issues because my partner didn't like tattoos.
Kate: Like, but I want them.
Kate: Like, I wasn't allowed to dye my hair certain colors, you know, because he didn't like it.
Kate: You know, shit like that.
Kate: And I'm just like, I'm never gonna not do something for someone again.
Bo: Yeah, and I mean, that's not to say that there's not room for compromise and all of that.
Bo: Oh, no, you know, like that's the nature of relationships, you know, is like, hey, I gotta give a little to get a little and vice versa.
Bo: Yeah, but yeah, but when you're giving up those, like the kind of shit that just doesn't make sense, you know, like like you were saying earlier, like, you know, well, you need to be home.
Bo: Why?
Bo: Well, because I said so.
Bo: Well, that's a fucked up reason for me to come home.
Bo: Yeah, you know, yeah, it's like with a good reason.
Bo: Sure, with just because, hey, I'm feeling vindictive and I, you know, I was home with a kid tonight and maybe I didn't have the best night.
Bo: And so I don't want you to have fun.
Bo: Yeah, exactly.
Bo: You know, that's a real fucked up thing to do to your partner.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: And like, you know, for example, as well, like we were like, he had like these hobbies and things.
Kate: He'd go to the gym.
Kate: He'd go on, go away overnight to do these like convention things and whatever.
Kate: And I had just started my other show.
Kate: And so I would like, you know, have one evening or two evenings a month where I got to just be me, not mom, not partner, not colleague, not nothing, just me chatting about film, right?
Kate: Once, twice a month, tops, maybe four, five hours tops, right?
Kate: We know we're chatting either side as well.
Kate: And I remember like just so many times I would get interrupted because I needed to go and help with the baby.
Kate: Even though his kid too, and it's like you can't handle her for one, I asked for one evening.
Kate: And it's like, I will hold down the fort when you have work dues, when you want to go to the gym, when you're working late or when you're whatever.
Kate: But I asked for like one evening and you can't handle it for one evening.
Kate: Are you fucking kidding me?
Kate: And it's not just my time as well.
Kate: It was like Matt's time.
Kate: If we had a guest on, it was that person's time.
Kate: We'd have to reschedule.
Kate: It's just, ugh.
Kate: And it was just like, again, it was like one of those things where it's like, yes, of course, compromise and do things and like meet in the middle and that is all absolutely fine.
Kate: But when it's such an uneven scale like that, it's like, ugh, bro.
Kate: But yeah, I was completely like, this is just my life.
Kate: And I didn't think that I would, that I just thought that that was my life.
Kate: And then I was just like, and it was just like, literally like this sort of like snap moment where I was just like, no, not doing this.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: Take your ring back, I'm not doing it.
Kate: I'm moving out of CLA.
Kate: Like, I'm just not.
Kate: And I've just been, it's been hard.
Kate: There's been ups, there's been downs, most logistical stuff of like suddenly being, like living on your own for the first time in nearly 20 years and like, being a single parent and whatnot.
Kate: But like, although in fairness, what I will say is that he is a fantastic father.
Kate: And like, I'm like, we, we co-parent very well.
Kate: We've gotten better now than we have done in fucking years.
Bo: But like, you know, but you don't have the pressure of like being someone you're not with them, do you?
Bo: You know, like you can meet on equal terms.
Kate: Yeah, there's that.
Kate: And also, I don't, he doesn't give a shit what I do anymore.
Kate: I don't give a shit what he doesn't do as long as the kid's OK.
Kate: But like, yeah, and but like, you know, it's had its ups, it's had its downs.
Kate: But I would not trade where I am right now for like that life I had before, because I was literally looking, acting and being someone completely different, someone who just I never was.
Kate: And like, I think if you get to a point where you're not, it sounds trite, but if you're not being your authentic self, you know, like if you are doing everything for one of the person and getting nowhere near anything like that in return, and I'm not saying that he would have to change everything for my sake or anything either, but do you know what I mean?
Kate: Like, yeah, what are you doing?
Kate: It's not it's not a life that anyone should be leading.
Kate: No one should be being anything but who they are.
Kate: I mean, unless, you know, they're a murderer or something.
Kate: I mean, try and be better with that.
Kate: But like, you know, for the average person, just like if someone doesn't like you for the way that you are, if someone's got an issue because you've got tattoos or because you're, you know, an extra like a louder person or you have different hobbies to them or, you know, whatever, then that's just not the person for you.
Kate: Don't compromise on the things that are important to you, you know, like compromise on small things, sure.
Kate: But like, if someone has essentially has an issue with like the vibe of who you are or like essentially the core of who you are, never change that because you will just be miserable.
Bo: Right.
Bo: Or you end up setting yourself on fire in a motel room or that, yeah, that's that can also happen.
Kate: I mean, metaphorically, I was setting myself on fire, so yeah, and then I lit that flame motherfucker and I walked away, pow, or something like that, you know.
Bo: That suddenly went action-packed.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: I watched the trailer for Bad Boys 4 earlier, I'm not going to lie, it was one of the cinemas.
Bo: Hey, do we have some Tinder is the Flesh?
Kate: Do we?
Kate: Yes, we do.
Bo: Okay.
Bo: So, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, moral of the story, that just felt like a good place to shift because, you know, you're throwing pearls before the swine that listened to this show.
Bo: But yeah, I mean, right, like if you find your, if you were in a relationship where you are finding yourself having to invent a person to please the person you're with and get the fuck out of that relationship.
Kate: And I think as well, this has happened to my previous relationship, was that you don't compromise on it, but you end up just leading completely different lives.
Kate: You just end up being flatmates or whatever, you know, and that's equally rubbish because what's the point in that, you know, like, you should share and enjoy the things together.
Kate: I'm not saying, you know, mold into one person, definitely have your own shit going on.
Kate: But like, there should be enough stuff, enough stuff in common that you can share together for it to be for it to be worth it and bring out the best.
Kate: I think that was the thing.
Kate: Me and my ex, we just brought out the worst in each other and bring out the best in each other.
Kate: Like, that's the good relationship stuff.
Bo: Right.
Bo: I mean, yes.
Bo: Perfect world.
Bo: That is, you know, what what every good relationship is, is sort of, you know, the marriage of true minds and right, like the being able to just be cool with each other and some being supportive, like you said, so but, you know, look, the end of this show is not about being supportive and learning lessons.
Bo: It's about making fun of people that post their profiles on Tinder.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: I mean, like the there's a reason we in the show with it, which it has become a bit of, you know, Tinder is the flesh is the name of the segment.
Bo: It's become a bit of a thing where we kind of we're ranking them, really.
Bo: And and just saying, like, here are the ones that suck the most and here are the ones that suck the least.
Bo: Like, maybe there's an actual human being on the other side of this.
Kate: I know we're really horrible, aren't we?
Bo: Look, some of these are rough.
Kate: Some of these ask for it.
Bo: Yes.
Bo: Yeah.
Kate: I don't like I don't put on stuff where I'm like, oh, you're just trying, though, like you're trying, you know, like, you might be a bit weird, but you got a good heart.
Kate: I try to sort of stick to the stuff where it is just flat out nonsense or just flat out gross.
Kate: Like, that's why I try because yeah, and also as well, I feel like if they're putting it out there, they're putting it out there.
Bo: So yes, it is a public profile.
Bo: Right.
Bo: Like we're not we're not going in someone's email.
Bo: Yeah, we're not soliciting these from the listeners or anything.
Bo: These are like actual human beings that, you know, could conceivably just be walking around with the rest of us.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: If anything, we're providing a service.
Bo: I look, I've often said that this show is nothing if not a public service.
Kate: Right.
Kate: You're welcome.
Bo: Yeah.
Kate: Um, oh, God.
Kate: So this guy is called as I'm assuming that short for something.
Bo: AZ as no as so like, oh, okay, like as, as the world turns snow or something.
Bo: Right.
Kate: As he goes.
Kate: Oh, wow.
Kate: A lot of naked women.
Kate: I hope it's not done as a result of absence of confidence and unhappiness.
Kate: I hope it's not done out of desperation to be validated.
Kate: I hope you can offer more than makeup and a naked body.
Kate: I hope you're confident enough to meet someone without filters.
Kate: I hope you can be yourself and have a personality and can offer something better to match the enhanced looks.
Kate: I study psychology.
Kate: We can talk.
Kate: I can help your soul to find comfort.
Kate: All right.
Bo: I'm apologies.
Bo: I'm going to need that one more time.
Kate: No, that's okay.
Kate: Right.
Kate: So I say it slower.
Bo: No, no, no.
Bo: You can say it just as fast.
Bo: I'm just I want to make sure I've got the details right before I pass judgment.
Kate: I feel like this one's like a journey.
Bo: It really is.
Bo: There's a real roller coaster going on here.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: Oh, wow.
Kate: A lot of naked women.
Kate: I hope it's not done as a result of absence of confidence and unhappiness.
Kate: I hope it's not done out of desperation to be validated.
Kate: I hope you can offer more than makeup and naked body.
Kate: I hope that you're confident enough to meet someone without filters.
Kate: I hope you can be yourself, have a personality and can offer something better to match the enhanced looks.
Kate: I study psychology.
Kate: We can talk.
Kate: I can help your soul to find comfort.
Kate: Oh, yeah.
Bo: So definitely a journey, one that no one needed or asked to take.
Kate: No one asked for this.
Kate: Okay.
Bo: So right off the bat, deeply misogynistic.
Bo: Yeah, I wonder if this is a thing where the kinds of women who are posting racier pictures are just not responding to him.
Bo: And this profile is a response to having been on the app for a while and been sort of pushed aside.
Bo: And he's like, Oh, well, I hope like, like this feels like a real passive aggressive kind of patronizing, isn't it?
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: And it's just it's got such an ego about it, like, no, you must, you know, you must have daddy issues.
Kate: It's like, Oh, I'm just actually confident in my body and, you know, sexually positive.
Kate: And I'm not really looking for anything much more.
Kate: So I don't feel the need to put loads of personal stuff about myself, because I'm going to know you for about two hours tops.
Kate: And that's fine, because that is my choice as a person, as a consenting adult to do that.
Bo: It is my right to look good and want to fuck, right?
Kate: So yeah, like, I'm sorry, but like, that right for that only fans and going, Whoa, whoa, whoa, there is way too much sex here.
Kate: You know, come on.
Kate: What are you on here for, buddy?
Bo: The one thing that you people like associate with Tinder is hookups.
Kate: Yeah, it's a hookup culture.
Bo: Yeah.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: Like, occasionally something might come from it that's more like the guy I'm seeing right now met him on Tinder.
Kate: I was quite happy for it to be like, you know, just a very casual thing.
Kate: We get on well, and it's kind of does like not a relationship or anything like that.
Kate: But you know, we see each other consistently.
Kate: And that's cool.
Kate: And it's you know, it's chilled and whatever.
Kate: But like, it's it was more than just a hookup.
Kate: But like, I've never really gone on a Tinder date with expecting it to be more than that.
Kate: Like if it happens to end up being more than that, fine, cool, great.
Kate: But that's definitely not my expectation going in because it's fucking Tinder.
Bo: Right.
Bo: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bo: So yeah, this guy seems kind of hateful.
Bo: And I'm not saying that.
Bo: Well, I'm not going to say it's justified.
Bo: It sounds like there is an experience beneath this, which I'm not sure what the experience was.
Bo: But regardless, he sounds like a real asshole, like I don't know why any woman would go out with this guy.
Bo: He sounds like he's got a real hang up.
Bo: This is borderline incel kind of shit.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: And also as well, he's not a psychologist either.
Kate: So all of this stuff is not even from a qualified mind.
Kate: He's like, I study psychology.
Kate: So what does that mean, buddy?
Kate: Do you watch the psychology channel?
Kate: Do you pop to the library?
Kate: Are you on a course?
Kate: Like that could mean a myriad of things.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: I watched Mind Hunters.
Bo: So I feel like I got a pretty good handle on the human condition.
Kate: Yeah, exactly.
Kate: Like FBI profiling, sign me up, buddy.
Kate: I'm qualified.
Kate: And like, you know, it's and I can help your soul to find comfort.
Kate: Fuck yourself, mate.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: Like this, this just sounds like a real piece of work.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: I got it.
Bo: I don't know what's to come.
Bo: I know there are two more, but this feels real bottom of the barrel to me.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: We got a kind of mixed bag here.
Bo: Okay.
Kate: So should we go to the next one?
Bo: Yes, please.
Kate: The other two, by the way, are nowhere near as long.
Kate: You'll be happy to hear.
Bo: Okay, good.
Bo: Because I get confused easily.
Kate: So the second one is a guy called Gareth.
Kate: And he says, I like women the way I like my coffee with a convoluted backstory, looking for a woman who likes men the way she likes chocolate in her mouth.
Bo: The first one doesn't make any sense.
Kate: It makes no sense.
Bo: Like, how does coffee ever have a convoluted backstory that that's just nonsense.
Bo: The other one at least makes sense.
Bo: It's crude, but it's it adds up.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: Yeah, this is like, is there anything to recommend it like this isn't the worst, but it's it's certainly good syntax.
Kate: Yeah, he uses good grammar.
Kate: He uses semicolons correctly, which is a fair play of talent.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: Here's this.
Kate: Here's a strong beard.
Bo: Okay, good beard understands how to use related independent clauses and their punctuation.
Kate: I figured you'd appreciate that.
Bo: I do.
Bo: I truly do.
Kate: I can hear you do.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: It's like my grade level has to teach semicolons, so I'm intimate with semicolons, just like a basement couch.
Bo: I'm intimate with them.
Kate: You love a colon, huh?
Bo: You know, it's the semicolon that gets me, like the colon, the colon's too obvious.
Kate: It's pretty common, right?
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: They're here, there and everywhere.
Bo: Yeah, right.
Bo: They're like subtitles.
Bo: They're all over the place.
Bo: The semicolon, though, it's very situational, like, I like it.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: All right.
Bo: So this guy, yeah, like I said, not knee jerk.
Bo: This guy's a nightmare, but I, you know.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: It's just, it's kind of a bit, it starts off a bit, try hard.
Kate: And then it ends with, okay, you know, like, it, there's a way she likes chocolate in her mouth.
Kate: It's just kind of like, right.
Kate: So remember when I've sent you that screenshot of the guy who opened up, what was it?
Kate: Hang on.
Kate: Let me find it.
Kate: So I matched with this guy on Tinder, so this was a bit ago.
Kate: Oh, here we go, he goes, he goes, Hey, hey, so I have a question, right?
Kate: This is literally his opener.
Kate: Hey, I have a question.
Kate: I go, Morning.
Kate: Haha.
Kate: Okay.
Kate: What's your question?
Kate: And then he goes, might be a bit bold.
Kate: But do I look like a man who has a small or a big package?
Kate: You remember this idea, I very, very wittily retorted with depends on how much you ordered.
Kate: Because I was trying to give him an out.
Kate: I was trying to get him to just reassess the situation.
Bo: Right, right, right.
Kate: Maybe go, Oh, you know what, maybe, yeah, maybe she is right.
Kate: Maybe that is a bit too forward for the first fucking text.
Kate: And then he just doubled downs on it and goes, Well, what if I was talking about my package down there?
Kate: And I was like, right, block, see you later, buddy.
Kate: Because even though it's Tinder, and even though we have just got his hookup culture, there is a finesse to it, though.
Kate: You don't just go in with put my dick in your mouth.
Kate: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bo: I mean, you can, but it's gonna it's gonna attract a certain clientele.
Kate: Yeah, even the act itself, you don't go straight in.
Kate: I mean, I mean, you build up, you kiss a little bit, you kind of get a bit handsy and like, you know, maybe some like light kiss kisses down the body to get there.
Kate: You don't just go right pants down and you just don't you just there are ways of doing there's a way of doing these things.
Kate: And so I feel like if you're literally just going straight in with that on your not even in a conversation on your fucking bio, I'm like, it's a bold opening.
Kate: It is a bold opening.
Kate: But for someone, okay, I don't want to be a cunt, but like, I'm gonna be gone.
Kate: He is he has a nice beard, but it's very unkempt.
Kate: And he is not.
Kate: He does.
Kate: He does not have the necessities to, to pull off being that bold, shall we say, right, right, right.
Bo: Like coming in with big dick energy on the profile, maybe not so much elsewhere.
Kate: Yeah, yeah, and even the guy who messaged me, he had, he had some good, some, some, some good things that, you know, would be in his favor, for sure.
Kate: But even that was like, that's, I don't care what you look like.
Kate: You don't, you can't just go straight bold in like that.
Kate: And also as well, what the fuck am I supposed to say to that question?
Kate: Like, all right, you look like you have a tiny dick.
Kate: What?
Bo: Right, yeah, I mean, it's the it's not a great invitation to conversation.
Bo: It's just like, hey, let's just start this off on a sexual foot.
Kate: It's leading to a dick pic is what it is 100% and I'm like, no, yeah, I don't know, I don't want it.
Bo: Yeah, it really, it really took a while for me to get around to the idea of that being an okay thing to do.
Bo: It isn't well on request, like the only time I've ever done it is on request.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: If someone is going like, hey, send me a picture, you know, or if you're at that point in like, you know, we're sending nudes or whatever is kind of like a bit of a, it's fine.
Kate: You know, it's okay.
Kate: You know, you know that they're going to appreciate it because, you know, you, you've reciprocated, you've done it a few times.
Kate: You know, you know, you're in that point first time, first, first bit of conversation.
Kate: No.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: Before you've even met.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: Definitely not.
Kate: You know, no, you don't even know my last name, honey.
Kate: I do not need to see you downstairs yet.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: Totally on board with it.
Bo: All right.
Bo: So we have a third, right?
Kate: We do.
Kate: Okay.
Bo: Okay.
Bo: Because we went on a tangent for a secret third just now, but this is the real third.
Kate: This is the real third.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: The other one.
Kate: It just reminded me of the other one.
Kate: Okay.
Kate: So Evan, we have Evan.
Kate: All right.
Kate: The quickest way.
Kate: This is so fucking weird.
Kate: The quickest way to my heart is through my parents.
Kate: Have sex with them and you're in.
Kate0: Well.
Bo: Oh, okay.
Kate: I don't understand and I'm not sure I want to.
Kate0: All right.
Kate: So I'll do it again.
Kate: The quickest way to my heart is through my parents, have sex with them and you're in.
Kate: Well, do they test right?
Kate: Do you need their approval?
Kate: I don't make it make sense, Bo.
Kate: What do you see?
Kate: What's going on with this?
Bo: So I'm trying to figure it out.
Bo: I mean, it feels like it's it feels like an incest joke with absolutely no context.
Kate0: You know, like logic, right?
Bo: It's like it like the punchline is there.
Bo: But the setup like the way to a man's heart is through his family.
Kate: Yeah, like get on well with my parents, but like have sex.
Kate: It just I see the kind I think I see what he's going for.
Kate: Yeah, but but it's such a it's such a mess.
Kate: Like you belly flop that mate.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: Yeah, that's that's real bad.
Bo: That's real bad.
Kate: I have a dark sense of humor.
Kate: I do.
Bo: Right.
Kate: But it has to be funny.
Kate: Well, it's just kind of off kilter just a bit like, huh?
Bo: And also, like the incest joke is that is a look both ways before you tell it kind of joke.
Kate: Oh, yes.
Kate: Absolutely.
Kate: Know your audience.
Bo: Right.
Kate: You like don't put it on blast for everyone to see.
Bo: Right, right, right, right.
Bo: Like that is it's that.
Bo: I mean, it's just fucking crazy.
Bo: You don't start within it.
Bo: Like you have to like the level of knowing your audience there is crazy.
Bo: You like you've got to you can't start with you.
Bo: You have to have known someone for a length of time to even make the attempt for an incest joke.
Bo: You don't just open like that's nobody.
Bo: No stand up comics opener ever is about fucking a family unless they're telling a variation of the aristocrats.
Bo: But that's the only exception to that rule.
Kate: Yeah, you can make incest jokes about other people.
Kate: I feel like if it's a shared joke, if there's context, but you can make jokes only in Franky Boyle, for example, making jokes about the royal family, there's context.
Kate: We know what we're expecting, and he knows what to expect from his audience.
Kate: If you go and see a Franky Boyle show, you have a certain type of sense of humor, and that is fine.
Kate: You don't put that on your dating profile.
Kate: I can't imagine going on a date with someone for the first date and saying that.
Kate: Do you know what I mean?
Kate0: So why put it in your bio?
Bo: This is going to come in as a little bit controversial perhaps.
Bo: But you know how I like a hot take.
Bo: I think as bad as number three is, and it's monumentally galactically bad.
Bo: I think number one is still the guy that like, he seems like he's got a real ax to grind.
Bo: And number two is fine.
Bo: Number two is not great, but it's of all the three that would be my pick.
Bo: If you were going to hook up with anybody, it would be him.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: I mean, because he also he likes coffee, so we have that in common.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: And I mean, again, it's not a great joke, but it's way better than an incest joke.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: So head and shoulders are funny.
Kate: So at least let's go over the one that isn't incestuous.
Bo: That doesn't reference the most horrifying crime that you can commit against a child, yes.
Bo: Or a family or a father or mother.
Bo: Like it's just...
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: It's all terrible.
Bo: Anyway, so yeah, I think it's number one.
Bo: I think he's got a grudge.
Bo: I think there's a lot of underlying anger.
Bo: I think number three is at best just misguided in his attempt to be funny.
Kate: Yeah, I think he's just very confused.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: But it's a bad crop.
Bo: You don't want anything to do with any of those.
Kate: Do you know what's hilarious is that like...
Kate: All right, some of these...
Kate: Okay, so one of them was when I went up to Scotland.
Kate: So I went up to Scotland last month.
Kate: So I love it when I go to somewhere new, because I'm like, ooh, new profiles.
Kate: And I can go through and try and find stuff.
Kate: But most of the ones that I've read out over this whole time we've been doing this segment over the episodes, they're all in my area.
Bo: You think there's something in the water, is that what you're saying?
Kate: I don't know.
Kate: We do live in the countryside, so...
Bo: You know, it's...
Kate: I just...
Kate: I'm like this...
Kate: You know what?
Kate: This is why I'm single.
Kate: This is the shit.
Kate: This is the level of choice that I have.
Kate: I would much rather be single.
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: It's...
Bo: Yeah, it's a bad group.
Kate: Yeah, I'm encouraged my kid to do the same.
Kate: Just say, no.
Kate: Just move far away and then date, because around here, it's just not...
Bo: Yeah, it's so funny that...
Bo: It just blows my mind that there are guys out there, they're like, this is gonna do it.
Bo: This is the bait that's gonna land the big fish.
Kate: Right?
Kate: Yeah.
Bo: And it's saying things like that, which is why I'm single.
Bo: You gotta get them fish, Kate.
Bo: That's what I say.
Bo: That's my dating advice.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: Is that what's on your profile?
Kate: Do you have an online dating app, by the way?
Bo: I do not.
Kate: You don't?
Bo: Not at present.
Bo: I've done it before, but I'm not at present.
Kate: It's atrocious though, isn't it?
Kate: It's fucking awful.
Bo: It's really terrible.
Bo: I mean, I think the next time that I feel like I need to date, because the last couple of times that I've gone down that road, it has not felt as if I am emotionally in a place to date right now.
Bo: But I think next time I'm going to do in-person shit, I think I'm going to be one of those people that's like, go do like a meet up or something like that, as opposed to the dating app.
Bo: I mean, I'll probably fall back on that at some point, but I've just had such...
Bo: I think it's also just dating in your 50s.
Bo: Like, it only gets worse, you know, like the crop that's out there.
Bo: All the good ones are either dead or married.
Kate: Yeah, it's true.
Kate: Or just so like bitter that they've just had all of their joy stripped.
Bo: Right.
Bo: Somebody's fucked them over real good.
Bo: And they're just like, no.
Kate: That's like...
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: You know, just so funny, it's just like, now when I think about...
Kate: Because I've been thinking about, what do I...
Kate: Because I was going down this one route in my life and I've taken such a fucking like left turn on it.
Kate: So like, I'm now thinking, okay, what do I want for my life?
Kate: And I have like an idea, but do you know what one thing I do not envision for my sunset years is having a partner?
Kate: I just don't envision myself being with anybody else, like someone.
Kate: I just envision myself living by myself, happy with my books and my coffee and like, you know, movies, and just, you know, doing me and, you know, maybe occasionally corrupting some 60 year old, some young, young 60 year old, some whippersnapper.
Kate: And that's kind of it, like, I don't, I don't see myself, you know, on the porch with like, a partner.
Kate: I just, I envision myself sitting on the porch with like, my book, you know?
Kate: Like, I just, so I'm just like, I just don't think it's for me.
Kate: I'd like, I'm quite happy to like, see people and like, form, like, you know, relationships in like, in terms of a person to a person.
Kate: But I think like anything more than that, I'm just kind of like, nah, you're just gonna get wet, get in the way, really.
Bo: I'm telling you, the number of times that I think about, I've told you this before, my current dream right now is just like, like a motor home and the dog just roaming the country.
Kate: Yes.
Bo: Having adventures like the incredible Hulk.
Kate: Amazing.
Bo: You know, and I mentioned that to a friend of mine.
Bo: I was told that like, I know I've really hit the like, I'm nearing retirement age because my family, like I do a lot of online window shopping of like, Oh, that's a nice one.
Bo: Oh, look, that's a big shower in this one.
Bo: That kind of shit.
Bo: And he was like, let's fucking do it.
Bo: Let's go.
Bo: He was like, just let me know.
Bo: I'll come with you.
Bo: Well, yeah, he's like, you know, the kids are a few years away from going to college.
Bo: So, yeah, just let me know when you want to go.
Bo: I'll take the other seat.
Bo: We'll go wherever you want.
Bo: I'm like, great.
Kate: Yeah, that's the thing.
Kate: If I envision me spending the rest of my life with anyone, it'll be like my best mate.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: Yeah, just like just growing old and senile together.
Kate: Like it doesn't have to be romantic.
Kate: You know, let's normalize finding soulmates in our friends.
Kate: Like I've said to one of my best friends who I went to cinema with today and hung out with, hang out and stuff.
Kate: So she's got a long term partner and they're cute as shit.
Kate: And I get on with him really well.
Kate: Like you know, we've all kind of like adopted each other a little bit.
Kate: And I've sort of said like, oh, when you guys like eventually settle, I'll just buy the house next door.
Kate: And like, you know, we can have keys to each other's house or maybe just like an adjacent door that like links the the property kind of thing.
Kate: And they're like, yes, let's do that.
Bo: Yeah.
Kate: And just having like, you know, having having company in friends and stuff that doesn't like.
Bo: Yeah, there is every chance in the world that at some point, my like Chad, who I did pixix movies with that we're going to be roommates like in the odd couple, you know, except with like me, him and his wife.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: And in the like a platonic threeple for the ages.
Kate: Yeah, exactly.
Kate: Like, yeah, like I don't want to, you know, get all up in their grills or anything.
Kate: But just like, can we can we just like, we're all together though?
Kate: Right.
Bo: How about like, we just as a collective, we just go hang out on the dock and drink some wine and 100% yeah, I'm moving like, can I come?
Kate: Yeah, sure.
Kate: We will obviously get your ass over.
Kate: Don't have to ask.
Kate: Yeah.
Kate: You know, like, oh, hey, guys, like, should we get takeouts?
Kate: And I like shouting through the wall.
Kate: Hey, guys, we get takeouts.
Kate: And, you know, that just that, yeah, and then, you know, they have their own space and I have my own space and stuff.
Kate: But it's just like, yeah, like, I don't think I'll ever live with anyone in that in like a romantic way again, I just I'm too selfish.
Kate: I'm not willing to move my stuff.
Bo: Yeah, I think my issue at the end of the day is that I'm very I was going to say, like, set my waste.
Bo: That's not exactly right, because I'm fairly adaptable.
Bo: I think it's just that, like, I just like peace and quiet.
Bo: I just like I like at the end of the day, where it's like, you know, there is just there's no sound.
Bo: I can just sit and read.
Bo: And it's lovely.
Kate: You get to decorate how you want.
Bo: You like this?
Kate: I don't give a fuck.
Kate: I like this.
Kate: I'm buying it.
Bo: Yeah.
Bo: There's a real there's a real weird painting on the wall that I adore, and it's kind of creepy and not like intentionally creepy.
Bo: I think it just is kind of creepy, but I love it.
Bo: And it does not belong in, you know, anyone's home.
Bo: But but yeah, to your point, just like, you know, you know, build the life that you've you want.
Bo: And then if someone comes along, that's worthy of sharing it, then, you know, invite them in.
Bo: But otherwise, fuck them.
Bo: Just do the thing that makes you happy.
Kate: Yeah, don't don't give up.
Kate: This is it.
Kate: This is the episode.
Kate: Don't give up the shit that is important to you and that you like and brings you joy in life because someone else kind of doesn't get it.
Kate: It's just it's just not worth it.
Bo: 100% All right.
Bo: Well, there is no better place to end it.
Bo: We have done all of the things.
Bo: So Kate, should people want to see you continue to drink on a podcast?
Kate: Drink on a podcast and chat naughty nonsense?
Bo: Yeah, to talk about the flooding panties.
Kate: Oh, I'm already regretting telling that story.
Bo: Oh, it's a good one.
Kate: Oh, I do need to go shower.
Kate: Yes, so I have two other podcasts.
Kate: One is a horror and dark movie podcast with my lovely co-host, Matt.
Kate: And that is Eternal Darkness of Not So Spotless Minds.
Kate: Find it on all usual places and find it on social media.
Kate: And that's just a nonsense chat rubbish thing where we also talk about films.
Kate: And then I have my book show, which is an indie book show where I review indie books and interview their authors.
Kate: And that is called Kate Anjou's Book Reviews.
Kate: And Anjou is spelled A-N-J-O-U.
Kate: And again, you can find that on all the socials and all the usual places of listening.
Kate: And yeah, that's it, I think.
Bo: Awesome.
Bo: I'm very excited.
Bo: I'm about to get to work on my book.
Bo: I'm about three weeks away from starting the writing of that.
Kate: Bro, when you're ready, hit me up.
Bo: I'll definitely need your assistance in navigating some of these.
Kate: I've got Brian Salmon's coming on over the summer.
Bo: Oh, nice.
Bo: Yeah, I did some work for him recently.
Bo: Yeah, nice.
Kate: So, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bo: So, yeah, and if you're listening to this, of course, stay tuned to The Dark Parade.
Bo: There is a new ranking of horrors coming, which is, of course, the project to rank every horror movie that has ever been made using science, Kate.
Bo: You know, which is a professional.
Bo: Yeah, so we've got the first 20 have been ranked.
Bo: Right now, the best horror movie of all time is The Haunting from 1963.
Bo: The worst horror movie that's ever made is something called Unknown Visitor, all about a horror movie shot entirely on ring cameras.
Bo: Okay, and you might be shocked to learn that does not work out.
Bo: Yeah, there's a narrative tool.
Kate: I personally I would never have thought that.
Kate: But I yeah, as you say, I'm very surprised.
Kate: Yeah, I thought that sounded like a foolproof.
Bo: So yeah, so we've only done 20 movies so far, but there's a new episode coming pretty soon.
Bo: I'm collecting the next 10.
Bo: Hopefully by end of year, we'll have at least the first 100 or so done.
Bo: But right now, it's barely a list.
Bo: But it's every grain of sand.
Bo: Well, I wanted to do something modest.
Bo: But anyway, so there's that.
Bo: There's an episode with Richard Glenn Schmidt on X-Cross, which I highly recommend.
Bo: We had a lot of fun talking about that movie, and it's a lot of fun just to watch.
Bo: If you haven't seen X-Cross, watch X-Cross.
Bo: That's coming up.
Bo: We've got more guests, more movies.
Bo: There's a bunch of stuff in the works along with the usual shenanigans.
Bo: And of course, in another month's time, we'll have another episode of Heart of Horror.
Bo: So Kate, anything else for the fine people at home?
Bo: Excellent.
Kate: All right.
Bo: Bye everybody.