WEBVTT 00:00:07.327 --> 00:00:12.738 Welcome to the Uncut Podcast. I'm Pastor Luke. I am Pastor Cameron. 00:00:13.287 --> 00:00:18.598 And this is the Uncut Podcast, where we have honest, uncut conversations about faith, life, 00:00:18.823 --> 00:00:27.708 and ministry. Today, we kind of, we were sitting here talking about what are we going to talk about 00:00:28.141 --> 00:00:31.097 in the Uncut Podcast today. And... 00:00:31.097 --> 00:00:34.057 Yeah. It's not that we're running out of topics. We have lots of topics. 00:00:34.057 --> 00:00:34.955 We have lots of topics. 00:00:35.495 --> 00:00:41.365 It's, do we have the energy to address all of those, some of those like big, big questions. 00:00:41.457 --> 00:00:45.657 On this particular day. Yeah, on this particular day, this particular morning. 00:00:47.081 --> 00:00:51.777 You know, we've got plenty yet to talk about. It's just, yeah, some of those things 00:00:51.777 --> 00:00:58.217 take some significant mental and emotional effort to parse through and say well. 00:00:58.217 --> 00:01:04.384 And the unfortunate thing is that Some of those topics are really important. 00:01:06.857 --> 00:01:14.547 So maybe next time we record, we should say, okay, when is our emotional and spiritual energy, 00:01:15.097 --> 00:01:20.876 at its peak in order to tackle some of these things? Because usually Thursday's for us. 00:01:21.377 --> 00:01:28.177 It's our Friday. It's our Friday, and it's our like, a little bit of a breakneck pace 00:01:28.177 --> 00:01:30.796 to maybe get some things done so that we can enjoy our weekend. 00:01:30.937 --> 00:01:36.537 Yes. And today's Thursday for us. I don't know if you're, whenever you're watching this, 00:01:36.537 --> 00:01:39.412 we're recording it a little bit ahead of time because. 00:01:39.988 --> 00:01:44.624 Yeah, this will be two weeks out from when it gets released. 00:01:44.903 --> 00:01:49.080 So Cameron is not here recording on his vacation. Correct, yes. 00:01:49.417 --> 00:01:55.337 But the last one that we did, last episode we did, we talked about, is it Shiny? 00:01:55.337 --> 00:02:00.697 Shiny Happy People. Shiny Happy People, which was a pretty heavy episode. 00:02:00.697 --> 00:02:03.961 We did that earlier this same week, actually. 00:02:04.497 --> 00:02:11.217 I think maybe the reason we even had the energy to do that particular episode and wade into the weeds 00:02:11.217 --> 00:02:17.137 much as we did was because we we did it on what a Monday? 00:02:16.402 --> 00:02:21.532 Was it Monday or was it Tuesday? It was on Tuesday. Tuesday after staff meeting. 00:02:21.668 --> 00:02:32.252 So we had a little bit more maybe energy than we do at the end of the week. So I don't know, 00:02:32.336 --> 00:02:39.612 you know, that's, it's a worthwhile leadership thing to examine in yourself of like, where 00:02:39.612 --> 00:02:47.132 Where your energy, I don't know, it sounds so super woo-woo to say it, but where's your 00:02:47.132 --> 00:02:49.827 energy economy at throughout the week? 00:02:50.565 --> 00:02:55.512 Well, this is kind of one of the things that we wanted to maybe start to talk about today 00:02:55.512 --> 00:03:04.652 is what are the things that we would tell our younger ministry selves that we never 00:03:04.652 --> 00:03:15.808 would have imagined or been able to experience or understood, you know, before we were in ministry. 00:03:16.204 --> 00:03:22.452 Yeah. I, one of those would have been, I know you feel like you can go all the time and go at 00:03:22.452 --> 00:03:27.016 a hundred percent pace and you kind of can, just don't. 00:03:27.817 --> 00:03:32.532 Yeah. Well, that would have been like a little bit of like, and, 00:03:32.532 --> 00:03:38.683 I would say you, I would kind of disagree with that. And I would say you can't. 00:03:41.492 --> 00:03:49.732 You can for a season, but even the fastest and most conditioned sprinters 00:03:49.732 --> 00:03:54.518 in the world can only sprint for so long until they collapse. 00:03:56.453 --> 00:04:03.943 And you know, like one of the things maybe that I didn't anticipate, both early in ministry, 00:04:04.072 --> 00:04:12.212 this would probably primarily be before ministry, In this, let's see, this year, 2023. 00:04:15.664 --> 00:04:25.914 Will be 19 years of full-time ministry for me. And that's like, you know, when I say full-time 00:04:25.914 --> 00:04:33.514 ministry, that's in general, you know, preaching week to week and doing pastoral work and meeting 00:04:33.514 --> 00:04:42.714 with people and counseling and doing all that stuff. And I would say that there, I had no 00:04:42.714 --> 00:04:52.834 anticipation whatsoever on the physical exhaustion that mental, emotional, and spiritual work 00:04:52.942 --> 00:05:07.434 creates. You know, just like the brain drain. And I'm never more tired physically than I am Sunday 00:05:07.434 --> 00:05:13.994 afternoons usually hits me around like three o'clock. Preached everything I've been working 00:05:13.994 --> 00:05:22.954 up to that week, been in the community with the people, carried the burdens or helped shoulder 00:05:22.954 --> 00:05:29.114 the burdens, prayed for people, all of the stuff that pastors do on Sundays, preached a message. 00:05:29.114 --> 00:05:34.114 And then Sunday it's like boom, boom, it all hits. 00:05:36.894 --> 00:05:41.254 And part of it I think that makes it even more exhausting is the. 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:50.209 I don't want to say dread because not I don't know like but but the the realization that okay 00:05:50.209 --> 00:05:56.529 it's three o'clock on Sunday afternoon and I'm finally hitting like this point of like oh my gosh 00:05:56.529 --> 00:06:08.769 I am spent on the week and Mondays tomorrow it's like yeah 17 hours later yeah it's time to do it 00:06:08.769 --> 00:06:16.049 again. Yeah. To start all over again. Yeah. So that I mean, I guess that could be you could 00:06:16.049 --> 00:06:22.769 change that a little bit by changing your day off. I've always had Friday as my day off. 00:06:22.769 --> 00:06:29.096 Well, so I did it the other way. We, my last position, if we were the pastor to have preached 00:06:29.409 --> 00:06:35.489 on Sunday, it was understood that we took Monday off. But we also had a slightly, there's two 00:06:35.489 --> 00:06:40.289 different kind of schools of thought when it comes to pastoral work and pastoral hours. 00:06:42.005 --> 00:06:46.443 And things like that. And so we were also of the expectation to work, 00:06:47.604 --> 00:06:58.049 like it was kind of our goal to work around 50 hours. And so that was kind of just the, 00:06:58.049 --> 00:07:01.129 It was kind of the goal. 00:07:01.129 --> 00:07:08.814 It wasn't a big concern if we were consistently up in the 50 hours range of work. 00:07:09.169 --> 00:07:14.769 And we took Mondays off. And what I found is that, for me, like... 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:24.928 Saturday and Monday ended up being my days off. And a lot of times Saturday, if I was preaching, 00:07:25.649 --> 00:07:29.149 didn't end up being very much of a day off because sometimes I was still doing 00:07:29.149 --> 00:07:30.581 some late prep work on that. 00:07:32.049 --> 00:07:37.108 But what I found in my own need to recover is I really need two days back to back. 00:07:37.329 --> 00:07:43.922 I have one day where I kind of crash a little bit. I kind of like, I need, I really need to zero out. 00:07:44.129 --> 00:07:50.569 I don't like not a whole lot of heavy lifting of things and ideas and topics 00:07:50.569 --> 00:07:52.790 I just need a little bit of just some, 00:07:53.649 --> 00:08:01.369 Super downtime for me and then the second day I kind of feel more myself And I'm able to kind of come and do. 00:08:03.061 --> 00:08:11.689 I'm able to engage in my day off a little bit more intentionally I'm able to do more at home things and other things that I want to do 00:08:11.689 --> 00:08:16.729 hobbies that maybe take a little bit more energy and stuff and when I don't 00:08:16.729 --> 00:08:20.249 have that when I have the two days are broken apart like that I take a Monday 00:08:20.249 --> 00:08:26.729 off I take a Saturday off I don't feel rested the day the days of rest are kind 00:08:26.729 --> 00:08:33.489 of broken up and so it you know for me that was never great and so when I came 00:08:33.489 --> 00:08:37.449 here and like everyone's like oh yeah like Friday and Saturday are kind of the 00:08:37.449 --> 00:08:43.689 days off. I was like, yes. And what that kind of does, at least in theory. 00:08:44.796 --> 00:08:50.737 Is rather than if because if Monday's your day off Sunday ends up feeling like the end of your week and, 00:08:51.639 --> 00:08:56.019 If you make it your first day of your week by taking Friday Saturday off, 00:08:56.787 --> 00:09:03.319 You are able to come in a little bit fresh now. That is all depending upon how diligent you and I have been on like. 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:14.959 Closing Work at the end of the day of Thursday It's why we said here like Thursday can feel a little bit like a crunch day and that's because yeah 00:09:15.394 --> 00:09:19.839 We're trying to put everything to rest enough so that we can not think about it for the next two days 00:09:19.839 --> 00:09:23.983 yeah, if I if I leave the office on Thursday night and, 00:09:25.019 --> 00:09:27.115 my sermons not done or, 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:33.318 Particularly, it's my sermon because that's usually like the thing that is what's usually the thing that can't wait, right? 00:09:33.858 --> 00:09:39.926 Then if I leave the office on Thursday and my sermons not done I. 00:09:42.545 --> 00:09:52.359 Can't I Can't it's very difficult for me to enter into any type of rest Either Friday or Saturday because I know at some point, 00:09:53.474 --> 00:09:57.804 I'm back and I'm back at the desk prepping, you know and getting getting ready and, 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:01.319 I have a really difficult time like, 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:05.159 It feels like my soul knows that I still have work to do. 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:13.504 And so I really try, on Thursdays I often work late, 00:10:19.839 --> 00:10:25.405 or later than normal because I would rather work late on my last day in the office, 00:10:25.918 --> 00:10:31.554 and then have Friday and Saturday with no, like, rest. 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:32.879 Yeah. 00:10:34.939 --> 00:10:41.996 And I was at a leadership conference once and one of the presenters there, a pastor and preacher. 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:51.089 Was talking about this and like, in terms of, you know, finishing your sermon at a particular time 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:56.239 of the week so that you could have the day of rest or whatever, and he basically just said, 00:10:56.239 --> 00:10:59.578 to keep your butt in the seat until the hard work is done. 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:09.390 Meaning like it's not, that may be a misconception that a lot of people have about what it takes to prepare. 00:11:10.239 --> 00:11:14.639 And I guess every, you know, like we're all, I mean, you and I are probably different 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:20.279 in the way that we prepare our messages and every preacher has their own method. 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:29.799 Yep. But not everyone may understand that, you know, it's not... 00:11:31.698 --> 00:11:40.988 It's not necessarily just like this super ethereal spiritual download of inspiration where, 00:11:41.744 --> 00:11:46.908 it just like you just know everything you're going to say and how you're going to say it and 00:11:46.908 --> 00:11:53.388 it's all from the you know like sometimes like sometimes it's like it hits and it's like easy 00:11:53.388 --> 00:12:00.268 right or like for me like they'll just be like oh that's the main point yes like whatever to do to 00:12:00.268 --> 00:12:02.228 say that main point is what I got to do. 00:12:02.228 --> 00:12:03.968 Like sometimes we'll get that clarity. 00:12:04.871 --> 00:12:08.481 Other times it's, it's a, it is it's work. 00:12:09.471 --> 00:12:12.908 Yeah. I mean, it's, it's yeah. Right. 00:12:12.948 --> 00:12:19.356 It's just, it's the type of hard work that everyone experiences in their job that makes work hard. 00:12:19.628 --> 00:12:21.102 Yeah. And it's always work. 00:12:21.388 --> 00:12:23.848 Sometimes the work is easier than others. 00:12:25.162 --> 00:12:31.482 Sometimes you have a lot of familiarity with a passage or you've preached it before right or. 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:42.068 You've planned this series out and so you kind of have an idea of what's coming and you can kind of like 00:12:42.288 --> 00:12:46.008 subconsciously or even consciously plan for multiple sermons and 00:12:46.448 --> 00:12:48.784 It makes it a little bit easier but 00:12:48.973 --> 00:12:56.208 Sometimes you're coming in and you're like stone-cold on this on the text or the topic or even what it is that you're going to 00:12:56.208 --> 00:13:03.008 say. We try and avoid that as much as possible, which is rare when we hit a week where we're like, 00:13:03.827 --> 00:13:08.608 what's the sermon going to be? We have like no starting point. I don't think that happens very 00:13:08.608 --> 00:13:15.808 often at all anymore. But sometimes you do come to like a, well that definitely happened during 00:13:15.808 --> 00:13:19.568 the Minor Profit Series, we're like, nahum! 00:13:20.949 --> 00:13:30.033 Who? Okay. A book I've never, like, I've read, never preached out of, and I've never done a deep 00:13:30.334 --> 00:13:33.750 study on. I'm supposed to cover the entire book in one sermon. 00:13:34.795 --> 00:13:39.234 Right. Yeah. That was a heavy lifting. Yeah. Well, you did most of that series. 00:13:39.234 --> 00:13:42.514 I did. I did finish it out. So that was right when you were starting. 00:13:42.514 --> 00:13:45.434 We did the more popular, not minor profits. 00:13:45.849 --> 00:13:46.264 Yeah. 00:13:46.984 --> 00:13:50.154 I took the popular ones. The popular ones. I gave you all the obscure ones after I left. 00:13:50.154 --> 00:13:55.464 I think it might've been Zephaniah was the one that I struggled with the most. I was just like, 00:13:55.725 --> 00:14:03.914 I don't know. That was a tough sermon. But there is a, like, I didn't understand it until, 00:14:04.934 --> 00:14:11.594 because a lot of my professional life, I've done a lot of physical work. I'd worked as a 00:14:11.594 --> 00:14:18.874 grocery clerk in a grocery store, done carpentry work, and things like that. And so, like, I was 00:14:18.874 --> 00:14:21.760 I was very used to physical exhaustion. 00:14:22.434 --> 00:14:27.954 I was very used to like putting in a solid eight hours, coming home and being like, 00:14:28.025 --> 00:14:31.754 whew, yeah, it was like a good day to physically spend, right? 00:14:31.754 --> 00:14:34.948 But I still had a lot of mental capacity a lot of times. 00:14:36.754 --> 00:14:45.274 And putting in like regimented, when I shifted to not having those physical outlets 00:14:45.274 --> 00:14:51.206 and not doing physical labor as much, I realized, I was like, oh. 00:14:52.142 --> 00:14:59.425 My brain and my heart and soul gets tired just like my body did You know, I 00:14:59.712 --> 00:15:04.592 There will there have been days and these happen these happen when I've kind of maybe, 00:15:06.032 --> 00:15:14.272 Overtaxed myself in some different in different ways, or maybe I've not Managed the time correctly or given myself enough breaks, but there will be days, 00:15:14.999 --> 00:15:20.812 particularly like on a Thursday where I hit noon and I'm staring at the computer and I'm like 00:15:21.202 --> 00:15:31.452 I have nothing in me. I don't have the mental capacity to put together two thoughts very well 00:15:31.752 --> 00:15:38.692 to make this sermon. And sometimes I have to make the decision, is it better for me to sit here for 00:15:38.692 --> 00:15:45.202 another four hours and force myself to write something that I'm going to come into the next 00:15:45.274 --> 00:15:49.552 I'm gonna maybe look at again and end up deleting almost all of it because it was, 00:15:50.783 --> 00:15:55.492 So bad like, you know, yeah, there is like a kind of a point of diminishing returns 00:15:55.652 --> 00:16:01.012 Yeah, we're like and that has happened. I wouldn't say it happens regularly. 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:09.872 For either of us. No, but I think that there is but I you know, there's several times over the last even couple months where I'm like, you know, I 00:16:09.872 --> 00:16:15.719 I need to set this down for a little bit because I, like you said, I don't have anything left, 00:16:16.432 --> 00:16:18.612 and I'm not thinking clearly. 00:16:18.612 --> 00:16:25.118 For me, usually the prep, if I can, If I can make the... 00:16:26.675 --> 00:16:34.365 If I can get my introduction, how am I starting this? If I can do that, then, 00:16:35.725 --> 00:16:43.565 usually the rest of it flows fairly easily because I tend to think through my fingers. 00:16:43.565 --> 00:16:44.590 Yeah. 00:16:45.165 --> 00:16:51.245 If I can get typing, I can keep moving because like, okay, now my brain is engaged, 00:16:51.998 --> 00:16:53.485 and I'm getting there. 00:16:53.485 --> 00:16:58.845 Well, it's interesting. I just didn't mean to turn into a whole sermon prep episode or anything, 00:16:58.845 --> 00:17:03.485 but it's interesting because you and I have flipped how we prepare our sermons. 00:17:06.445 --> 00:17:11.725 My most common way of prepping sermons would be to, like, do the research, do the writing, 00:17:11.725 --> 00:17:20.058 do a little bit of free writing, make a very vague, big, kind of big movement outline, 00:17:20.193 --> 00:17:26.685 and then write, and I would write my entire sermon. But I've, over the last six months, 00:17:26.685 --> 00:17:34.300 I guess, I've shifted from doing that to writing. I still do some free writing, 00:17:34.426 --> 00:17:40.124 try and kind of nail down the big idea, and then I make a detailed two-page outline, 00:17:40.494 --> 00:17:45.805 and then that's it. I'm not sitting and I'm not writing what usually ended up being around 00:17:45.805 --> 00:17:55.725 seven to nine pages of word-for-word my sermon, which has given me a little bit more flexibility 00:17:55.725 --> 00:18:03.085 in my time, but also has helped me be a little bit... It's helped me deliver my message sometimes 00:18:03.085 --> 00:18:09.645 in a little bit more relatable or conversational tone, and it's just a different way of prepping 00:18:09.645 --> 00:18:16.377 and preaching that I think I'm leaning into to learn some things. And then you decided to, 00:18:16.692 --> 00:18:22.205 that's kind of what you did for a very long time, and you've decided to switch back to what 00:18:22.205 --> 00:18:26.205 essentially I was doing, which is writing it all out. 00:18:26.205 --> 00:18:32.365 Yeah, essentially manuscripting it, which is not, yeah, like, probably for the last. 00:18:33.562 --> 00:18:36.525 17, 18 years of ministry I have not been doing. 00:18:36.525 --> 00:18:43.105 I've been generally creating a written outline that I understand, that I can follow, 00:18:43.105 --> 00:18:49.245 that I know how I want to get from point one to point two or whatever. But, as I'm. 00:18:51.576 --> 00:18:58.183 I'm just continuing to want to grow and be better in my, 00:18:59.308 --> 00:19:07.106 Preaching. Mm-hmm was recognizing that I was not always Bringing the level of clarity. 00:19:08.356 --> 00:19:14.986 That I wanted to bring to a certain point. Mm-hmm, because I was relying on 00:19:14.986 --> 00:19:21.652 on my sense of just knowing what I wanna say in the moment and saying it. 00:19:22.146 --> 00:19:27.405 And there were specific times or things where I wanted to be like, 00:19:27.546 --> 00:19:30.681 I want to say this very, very clearly. 00:19:31.586 --> 00:19:37.649 And so I'm gonna write it out so I'm not, I don't miss the moment of clarity. 00:19:38.446 --> 00:19:42.306 Also, if you listen to me preach or watch me preach or whatever, 00:19:42.306 --> 00:19:47.746 you'll know that I, you know, like, it's very easy for me to be tangential. 00:19:47.746 --> 00:19:58.346 No, never, Cameron. You know, I preach for, I preach, you know, longer than 99% 00:19:58.586 --> 00:20:05.226 of preaching professors and, you know, books will tell you that you should preach. 00:20:05.226 --> 00:20:10.666 Yeah, like the recommended is, the sweet spot's like 20 to 20, like 25 minutes, 00:20:10.666 --> 00:20:14.756 Somewhere between 20 to 30 minutes is like what I've heard. And I'm at least double that. 00:20:15.066 --> 00:20:21.337 At least. Yeah. I mean, both of us are. Yeah, I'm in the 50 to 60 minute range very consistently. 00:20:21.586 --> 00:20:23.129 It's what I've always done. 00:20:26.186 --> 00:20:29.268 I think that I do think it's intent, 00:20:32.186 --> 00:20:39.906 it is intentional for me. Yeah. And, but regardless, they're like in my preaching. 00:20:44.026 --> 00:20:51.186 Moving from outlining to manuscripting, I'm trying to cut down on a lot of the extra filler words. 00:20:53.586 --> 00:21:02.567 Okay, so, you know, like wanting to be really clear, not wasting anything, not wasting people's attention, 00:21:02.826 --> 00:21:07.626 not wasting my words, not wasting my energy, you know, getting as much out as I can. 00:21:07.626 --> 00:21:10.931 And sometimes it's better than others. 00:21:11.066 --> 00:21:19.474 Yeah, well, you know, there's this really weird, Um, sometimes. 00:21:20.338 --> 00:21:29.068 Preaching a long sermon is the easier thing to do. And so what we're not saying is that, 00:21:29.068 --> 00:21:33.628 oh, if you're listening, a long sermon is better than a short sermon. We're not necessarily saying 00:21:33.628 --> 00:21:41.788 that, because a lot of people preach long sermons because they're not very good at preaching yet. 00:21:42.908 --> 00:21:45.788 They're... They actually don't know what to say. They don't know what to say. 00:21:45.788 --> 00:21:46.508 So they say everything. 00:21:46.508 --> 00:21:50.428 And so they say everything. They're dumping everything. They're kind of just regurgitating 00:21:50.428 --> 00:21:56.988 everything that they read. That was me early on. I still remember I was doing, I think I was 00:21:56.988 --> 00:22:03.228 preaching Daniel, and there was some confusion over which exact king this story was related to, 00:22:03.228 --> 00:22:08.743 and I did all this archaeological reading and all this stuff, and I came to like this thing, 00:22:08.941 --> 00:22:14.428 and I was like, all right, I've come to the decision which king this was, and like exactly 00:22:14.428 --> 00:22:18.428 where it fit in Persian history and all that stuff. And I went and I asked somebody, I said, 00:22:18.428 --> 00:22:22.748 all right, where should I put this in my sermon? And they're like, Luke, why would you put it in 00:22:22.748 --> 00:22:30.908 your sermon? No one cares. And I was... Oh, like, you're sure? Because I really wanna put it in 00:22:30.908 --> 00:22:38.348 there. So long sermon doesn't necessarily mean a good sermon, but if you are going to preach long 00:22:38.348 --> 00:22:41.791 and you're going to do it well, takes a lot of work. 00:22:42.583 --> 00:22:49.428 Yes. Because you, and there are a lot of benefits. Like I think one of the things that at least I've, 00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:52.068 I've experienced in, cause I've, I've done both. 00:22:52.068 --> 00:22:58.544 I've done the 30 minute sermon on a consistent basis. I've done closer to your length, which since I've come here 00:22:58.668 --> 00:23:03.668 and you are able to get much deeper and farther. 00:23:04.791 --> 00:23:09.464 Into people's lives and communicate more complex ideas ideas in a larger sermon. 00:23:09.708 --> 00:23:14.100 If you're trying to do the 20 minute TED Talk. 00:23:17.250 --> 00:23:22.760 You're not gonna be able to show as much of your work and you're not gonna be able to like, 00:23:24.300 --> 00:23:26.559 you just can't get there, you can't get as deep. 00:23:26.820 --> 00:23:31.267 Right, well, and you know, and like, I. 00:23:34.760 --> 00:23:44.580 I don't ever want the sermon to be reflective of how theologically insightful or astute, 00:23:45.662 --> 00:23:47.093 or how much work I've done. 00:23:48.180 --> 00:23:53.944 I don't ever want someone to sit through an hour sermon and be like, wow, that was an hour long. 00:23:54.025 --> 00:24:02.240 He's so insightful, or he has so much theological, I don't, that's not my purpose at all. 00:24:03.540 --> 00:24:13.236 It comes to me from a more methodological standpoint of like what it takes to really take the word of God, 00:24:15.780 --> 00:24:19.033 and understand we're talking about things that are. 00:24:23.020 --> 00:24:31.660 A interrelationship between the work of a man and preaching the word and the primary work 00:24:31.660 --> 00:24:37.236 of the Holy Spirit to take the word as it's proclaimed and to put it into people's hearts. 00:24:38.100 --> 00:24:39.072 Yeah. Right. 00:24:40.035 --> 00:24:45.392 But what, you know, so understand that there is that nuance and do believe that in that nuance. 00:24:45.455 --> 00:24:54.529 But like, if you think about the work of preaching and what it takes to make that happen, 00:24:54.637 --> 00:24:59.840 you know, like think of, like, you just can't, You can't drill deep. 00:25:01.362 --> 00:25:08.032 In 20 minutes. No, you can't you can't be meditative in 20 minutes, right? You can't like you just, 00:25:08.887 --> 00:25:12.660 like if it takes five minutes to set the drilling rig up, 00:25:13.884 --> 00:25:22.552 And it takes five minutes to take the drilling rig down Yeah, and you preach a 20-minute sermon you got 10 minutes to drill. You can't drill very deep, 00:25:23.651 --> 00:25:29.512 Yeah at all. You can barely get through the surface of someone the hardness of someone's heart. Mm-hmm. And so 00:25:29.512 --> 00:25:35.432 And so all of those elements tend to be for me a little bit longer. 00:25:35.432 --> 00:25:37.623 Introduction tends to be a little bit longer. 00:25:38.032 --> 00:25:42.313 The body is obviously longer. The conclusion tends to be a little bit longer, 00:25:43.152 --> 00:25:44.912 because I think that there's a. 00:25:47.232 --> 00:25:48.317 I don't know. 00:25:50.352 --> 00:25:56.879 We cheat people out of the depth of the experience of God's word when we assume that they can't 00:25:56.952 --> 00:26:00.432 pay attention to something more than 20 minutes. 00:26:00.432 --> 00:26:04.912 If you're preaching for 20 minutes because people don't pay attention for more than 20 minutes 00:26:05.206 --> 00:26:08.410 then the problem is not them not paying attention. 00:26:08.483 --> 00:26:18.472 The problem is, I mean, the word of God, we're not talking about something that's disengaged from someone's life. 00:26:18.472 --> 00:26:25.371 If we as preachers do the hard work of understanding the critical connections and what the word of God 00:26:25.512 --> 00:26:30.898 does and says into the applicable sections of people's lives today, right now, 00:26:31.752 --> 00:26:40.630 then it is the most like foundationally applicable substance that there is known to man, right? 00:26:40.752 --> 00:26:44.870 And it will take root if we give it time to. 00:26:49.152 --> 00:26:54.718 So I just can't, I would, I... 00:26:55.952 --> 00:27:04.081 I fear the day, that's like, or I shouldn't say that because I don't anticipate this 00:27:04.360 --> 00:27:10.721 would ever like happen, but where like the elder team or, you know, the church as a whole 00:27:10.721 --> 00:27:19.521 would be like, you need to preach for a half hour, tops. 00:27:19.521 --> 00:27:22.202 That's the time allotted that you get. 00:27:23.472 --> 00:27:29.881 I think I feel so strongly about this that I would be like, then you need to find a different pastor 00:27:29.881 --> 00:27:32.195 because I'm not your man. I'm not the guy. 00:27:33.081 --> 00:27:38.469 Like if that's what you want, if you want 20 to 30 minute sermons, 00:27:38.841 --> 00:27:46.321 I am probably not the pastor that fits that dischurch or that desire or whatever. 00:27:46.321 --> 00:27:50.161 I'm just not. I don't think I feel quite as strongly as you do, 00:27:50.161 --> 00:27:57.338 Partly because I've been, I've done the 30-minute sermon for, I did that for two-plus years. 00:27:57.788 --> 00:28:03.685 So, you know, and so I do think that there, it is definitely a different way of preaching. 00:28:03.981 --> 00:28:11.041 And I think given the option, I would generally choose the longer for the reasons that you've 00:28:11.229 --> 00:28:13.801 highlighted. 00:28:13.801 --> 00:28:20.708 I do think, you know, like, and I'm not saying that there's not a room for, this is a kind, 00:28:21.581 --> 00:28:28.558 of somewhat tangential and perhaps so esoteric or deep that anyone who's listening is not 00:28:28.612 --> 00:28:37.290 very interested in this, but there is like a type of preaching that comes out in the 00:28:37.425 --> 00:28:49.021 like 10-minute sermonic thought that, like, when I've given more informal, shorter sermons 00:28:49.021 --> 00:28:54.890 that are like even shorter than 20 minutes there's a type of almost like. 00:28:56.150 --> 00:29:00.920 Contemplative simplicity that sometimes comes out in that kind of writing. 00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:06.640 And I've not known how to access that in a longer sermon as much as I know how to do it in a shorter sermon. 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:13.680 And I've personally reflected on the dynamics of that and tried to articulate that. 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:18.120 You obviously seem to know what I'm talking about. Yeah, well, because we do it sometimes here, 00:29:18.394 --> 00:29:21.869 like Good Friday sermons, Christmas Eve, 00:29:22.840 --> 00:29:33.600 and stuff like that, where we do a more meditative, reflective, like for lack of a better term, 00:29:33.600 --> 00:29:40.520 devotional thought on the narrative or the story or whatever, and just kind of let it be what it is. 00:29:40.520 --> 00:29:42.458 And sometimes that connects with people more. 00:29:43.800 --> 00:29:47.160 Some of the sermons that people have told me that, oh, that was like the best. 00:29:47.751 --> 00:29:49.866 I was like, that wasn't really even a sermon. 00:29:50.080 --> 00:29:54.640 It was like a thought, you know? sometimes that's all it takes. 00:29:54.640 --> 00:30:01.236 And so I'm very much a person of context, like what is it that I'm doing? 00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:07.120 What's the goal? What's even the text? One of my favorite sermons was, 00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:15.240 I think it was by, you know what, I'm not even gonna attempt because I'm not 100% sure of his name 00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:16.640 and I can't pronounce it. 00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:22.320 But pastor came to a conference and it was this big conference. 00:30:22.320 --> 00:30:27.040 Was being like recorded and all this stuff and these pastors were coming and 00:30:27.040 --> 00:30:31.360 it was kind of a bit of a flex to come in and do these big long sermons in this 00:30:31.360 --> 00:30:37.218 conference. And he came, his text was. 00:30:38.380 --> 00:30:45.430 Christ's exhortation to his disciples, does not your father in heaven know how to give good gifts, 00:30:45.430 --> 00:30:52.470 if you as earthly fathers know how to give good gifts. Very simple kind of text. He didn't give 00:30:52.470 --> 00:30:58.950 any, he's just like, I'm not going to give you any fancy illustrations or really clever stories, 00:30:58.950 --> 00:31:04.765 because Jesus already did that. He simply took the parables that Jesus mentions there, 00:31:05.080 --> 00:31:11.350 kind of retold them, and then he was like, the point of this passage is that all of you in this 00:31:11.350 --> 00:31:18.630 room should pray more. You have not because you ask not. Let us believe that. We don't know the 00:31:18.630 --> 00:31:23.571 mystery of how and when God decides to answer prayer, but it seems here very clear that God 00:31:23.830 --> 00:31:29.910 wants us to seek Him more and pray more. He was done in 20 minutes, and then he walked off the 00:31:29.910 --> 00:31:35.190 stage and the entire conference had no idea what to do. So they improvised like a giant gospel 00:31:35.454 --> 00:31:40.390 performance for the next 45 minutes, and all the students who were there wanted to go home, 00:31:41.350 --> 00:31:47.510 because we were required to be there. But I remember that sermon very clearly, and I remember 00:31:47.510 --> 00:31:51.910 it being probably the best sermon I sat through that entire week. I sat through like a week of 00:31:51.910 --> 00:31:55.750 like... I was listening to like three or four sermons a day during that conference, and that's 00:31:55.750 --> 00:31:57.005 That's the only sermon I remember. 00:31:57.969 --> 00:32:05.350 Yeah. Well, and it's interesting, too, because people approach sermons, not pastors, but people 00:32:05.350 --> 00:32:09.350 in congregation approach sermons for different purposes. 00:32:09.350 --> 00:32:19.650 Some want to be inspired, you know, they want the inspiring, like somewhat charismatic presentation. one. 00:32:20.951 --> 00:32:27.081 To be educated. Yes Some want to be challenged and convicted. Mm-hmm. 00:32:29.612 --> 00:32:40.161 And so and probably, you know a couple other Reasons that people yeah, or they want to approach it. Yeah, and so the question then becomes, 00:32:41.089 --> 00:32:44.041 You know, is it the job of the preacher to meet each one of those? 00:32:44.041 --> 00:32:49.841 Those expectations, you know, maybe not in like, oh, so-and-so has this expectation, 00:32:49.841 --> 00:32:54.845 so I better, I better, you know, make, you know, meet their expectation. 00:32:54.961 --> 00:33:01.480 But should there be some, you know, should our presentation be charismatic 00:33:01.641 --> 00:33:04.288 from the standpoint of it being engaging? 00:33:04.561 --> 00:33:11.022 Yes, it absolutely should. It is like cardinal sin of preachers to bore people with the word of God. 00:33:11.241 --> 00:33:12.948 Like, come on now, right? 00:33:13.361 --> 00:33:17.125 So yeah, we wanna have good presentation. 00:33:17.861 --> 00:33:23.724 Do we want to educate people? Yeah, of course. In the word of God, do we wanna inspire people? 00:33:24.001 --> 00:33:27.334 Yes. Do we want people to experience conviction? 00:33:28.721 --> 00:33:37.441 Yeah, because godly conviction produces repentance, which leads to new life. 00:33:37.441 --> 00:33:46.841 So we want those things. each one of those things is not in itself preaching. Education is not preaching. Inspiration 00:33:46.841 --> 00:33:54.761 is not preaching. Conviction is not preaching. Those are byproducts of faithful preaching. 00:33:55.394 --> 00:34:05.549 Right. And so you go about the act of preaching, understanding that people are going to either 00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:10.851 Receive or not receive those things according to their own like willingness to hear them. Mm-hmm, but. 00:34:14.794 --> 00:34:20.004 So, yeah, we said all that to say, Thursdays are our days off. 00:34:21.124 --> 00:34:23.284 Or our last day and Fridays are our days off. 00:34:23.284 --> 00:34:29.444 Oh, yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, Thursdays are our last days. And we often are very tired, 00:34:30.548 --> 00:34:37.124 emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and then physically, because of the work. And so, 00:34:37.124 --> 00:34:38.964 it's nice to have two days off in a row. 00:34:38.964 --> 00:34:46.896 Yeah. Well, you know, this truth really hit me when we closed the church in Chicago and I 00:34:46.986 --> 00:34:52.820 was looking for the position that ended up being here and came here. I was able to take a couple 00:34:53.044 --> 00:34:59.524 of months off. It kind of ended up being a semi-forced sabbatical of types, although I did 00:34:59.524 --> 00:35:08.324 end up doing different types of work during that time. While I was job hunting and one of the, 00:35:09.798 --> 00:35:16.004 I just kind of collapsed for like a good couple of months. And that was, I got as, like during 00:35:16.004 --> 00:35:27.604 that time, I got the sickest I had been in like any recent memory. I was like, just exhausted. 00:35:27.847 --> 00:35:32.114 And in some ways, I look back now at my time in Chicago. 00:35:37.444 --> 00:35:46.164 And this is really, this isn't like, this is just me. This is just me looking back and saying like, 00:35:46.164 --> 00:35:49.964 I did not hold like good boundaries for myself. 00:35:49.964 --> 00:35:56.964 And I went too hard for too long, and it wore me out in a way that like has taken me 00:35:56.964 --> 00:36:01.642 It's taken me years to figure out how to not be that way. 00:36:03.484 --> 00:36:08.682 And so it's like, like back to what you originally said, like, ultimately I agree with what you said. 00:36:08.844 --> 00:36:14.047 Yeah, you can't go that hard for that long because you eventually do have to pay the piper. 00:36:14.884 --> 00:36:17.828 And so that's, you know, you. 00:36:18.863 --> 00:36:25.273 You do need to find a sustainable rhythm. Otherwise, you do end up kind of just, 00:36:26.533 --> 00:36:29.913 crashing at some point. Well, we're not even I'm not even talking like. 00:36:32.097 --> 00:36:36.949 This isn't even like a good self-care principle. This is biblical. Well, yeah, 00:36:37.193 --> 00:36:41.193 it's one of the Ten Commandments, isn't it? You know, we're yeah, we're not talking about like, 00:36:41.193 --> 00:36:47.273 well, if you if you can find it within your schedule, you're very busy doing everything 00:36:47.273 --> 00:36:53.273 for God's schedule, try to honor Him by obeying one of the Ten Commandments. 00:36:53.273 --> 00:37:02.153 Paul Yeah. Have we, if we talked about that before, how like sometimes the Sabbath is the one Ten Commandment that everyone thinks doesn't matter 00:37:02.153 --> 00:37:05.353 anymore? Ken I mean, I don't think we've talked about it directly. 00:37:06.116 --> 00:37:05.693 Paul Yeah. 00:37:06.828 --> 00:37:15.353 Ken Like I mentioned something similar to it this past week. I've preached on the Sabbath many times, 00:37:15.434 --> 00:37:28.153 You know, yeah, God does not, you know, God is not impressed when we abandon solitude, 00:37:28.953 --> 00:37:36.553 and time with him in the name of serving the church or serving him. You know, it's not, 00:37:36.553 --> 00:37:42.073 that's not impressive to God when we run ourselves so ragged that we 00:37:42.073 --> 00:37:52.289 that we have literally not the physical or spiritual or mental or emotional capacity to be in. 00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:56.430 Restful, life-giving relationship with him. 00:37:58.830 --> 00:38:07.110 So, no, I don't know that we've talked directly about that, but it certainly is true. 00:38:07.110 --> 00:38:10.510 Yeah, well, because I heard it for a long time. 00:38:12.391 --> 00:38:15.434 People like to make a distinction of the Old Testament law, and they're like, 00:38:15.550 --> 00:38:22.550 well, there's the 10 Commandments, which are the moral law, and those are universal, continue to be applied, 00:38:22.789 --> 00:38:26.230 like, we should honor the Ten Commandments, and there's the rest of the stuff which is 00:38:26.230 --> 00:38:32.310 mostly ceremonial, which was all fulfilled in Christ, and we are not necessarily bound to those things. 00:38:32.529 --> 00:38:41.350 That's why we wear blended shirts and things like that, or eat seafood, or selfish bacon. 00:38:41.350 --> 00:38:48.590 And so that's kind of a theological distinction that is often made, but one of the caveats 00:38:48.590 --> 00:38:55.350 to that ends up being, well, all the Ten Commandments except for the commandment of Sabbath, because 00:38:55.350 --> 00:38:59.830 they go and they look at the teachings of Christ, and they say, well, Christ says that 00:38:59.830 --> 00:39:06.550 like, essentially, they make the interpretation of what Christ says when Christ teaches about the Sabbath. 00:39:06.550 --> 00:39:10.663 He says, Sabbath is not, you were not created for Sabbath, but Sabbath was created for man. 00:39:11.110 --> 00:39:21.190 They take that as a license to say it's a gift, and so I can either choose to pick that 00:39:21.190 --> 00:39:28.230 gift up or I can choose to set that gift aside in the name of doing things, and it becomes 00:39:28.230 --> 00:39:31.150 an excuse to not do the Sabbath. 00:39:31.150 --> 00:39:45.799 How prideful and full of ourselves have we become to imagine that we would say no to to a gift of God. 00:39:47.770 --> 00:39:53.829 Like, if Jesus were to walk in the room right now and say, Luke, Cameron, I have a gift for you. 00:39:55.044 --> 00:39:59.720 And we've already talked about, like, okay, the gifts that the Father gives are immeasurably 00:39:59.720 --> 00:40:02.371 better than any gift that our human fathers could give. 00:40:02.984 --> 00:40:06.756 I've got a gift for you. We're good now. I mean, seriously. 00:40:07.020 --> 00:40:12.780 Thanks, Jesus. Keep it. I'm pretty busy this week. We're just gonna keep going. 00:40:12.780 --> 00:40:18.900 Yeah, I'm gonna keep going. I don't have time to open the gift experience what you have for me in this, 00:40:20.673 --> 00:40:24.931 Come back next week and if I have enough time, we'll see and then he comes back next week like nope. Sorry, just I, 00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:34.020 Too busy for it this week, too What in the Sam hell is going on? 00:40:35.518 --> 00:40:41.180 In your mind When you can read a passage like that the you know Sabbath was 00:40:41.180 --> 00:40:54.693 made for man. It is a gift, you know, for us. And for us to say, yeah, I know it's a 00:40:54.940 --> 00:40:58.780 good idea, but it's just not practical with my schedule. 00:40:58.900 --> 00:41:03.695 We have the freedom to use it if we want, but we don't need it. 00:41:04.829 --> 00:41:09.580 Like I just, that mentality absolutely blows my mind. 00:41:12.740 --> 00:41:19.647 And in the same regard, like my, you know, the heart of sin, 00:41:19.780 --> 00:41:24.265 the flesh does want to rebel against it. 00:41:25.084 --> 00:41:31.431 Want to rebel against it. You know, not even like... 00:41:33.177 --> 00:41:37.548 Physically speaking where I'm like, okay. Well, I'm just gonna on my day off. I'm gonna go home and work all day, 00:41:38.291 --> 00:41:43.628 I'm gonna mow the lawn and do the weed eating and like, you know, but do all that, 00:41:44.403 --> 00:41:47.320 because you can certainly have days off and, 00:41:48.580 --> 00:41:50.508 Still not be present to the Lord, 00:41:51.868 --> 00:41:53.868 Right, but there definitely is like. 00:41:55.620 --> 00:42:09.488 There is like Any day that we walk out of this office and we go home home, we know that there is... we are 100% confident that there's more than 40 hours 00:42:09.488 --> 00:42:14.894 of work waiting for us when we come back into the office. 00:42:15.148 --> 00:42:21.228 There is not a day where you and I sit and look at each other and say, gosh, Cam, what 00:42:21.228 --> 00:42:24.228 should we do with our time? Wow. 00:42:24.580 --> 00:42:29.928 I got all the work done last week, I don't have any left for this week. 00:42:30.009 --> 00:42:35.113 I leave more work on the table to be done than I get done in any week. 00:42:35.284 --> 00:42:41.508 The sinful temptation, at least for me, and I'm guessing at times for you, is to, 00:42:42.868 --> 00:42:47.668 believe I can get it done. If I… Myself. 00:42:47.734 --> 00:42:56.934 Myself. If I just crank harder, if I just go, if I maybe omit some of the space in my week, 00:42:57.087 --> 00:43:07.053 If I just was to just hustle, if I just worked harder all the time, I could get it done, 00:43:07.348 --> 00:43:09.511 and I could get it done better, and I could do it. 00:43:12.194 --> 00:43:16.038 Nope. God has a way of telling us that he can't, that we can't. 00:43:16.542 --> 00:43:18.495 Yep. There's a way of knocking that out of us. Yeah. 00:43:19.803 --> 00:43:22.443 You can do nothing apart from me, says Christ. Yeah. 00:43:23.167 --> 00:43:31.243 And so, what are we doing? If we're doing the things of ministry for God, 00:43:32.106 --> 00:43:34.888 but we're not doing them with God. 00:43:35.167 --> 00:43:40.203 Yeah. And then in that scenario, you're not actually even doing it for God, 00:43:40.203 --> 00:43:47.003 you're doing it for yourself, to prove your worth, to prove your calling, to prove your, 00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:52.763 gifting, you're no longer doing it for God because the things that we actually do for God, 00:43:52.763 --> 00:43:57.723 we do in obedience to Him and not apart from Him. 00:43:59.798 --> 00:44:07.003 And that, like this idea, what we ended up just talking about, the whole idea of concept of Sabbath, 00:44:07.936 --> 00:44:10.195 isn't just for pastors. 00:44:10.783 --> 00:44:14.012 To make that clear. Not at all. It's for everyone. It's for everyone. 00:44:14.583 --> 00:44:20.823 Yeah. We. Jesus wasn't speaking, the Sabbath was not given for ministry leaders. 00:44:20.823 --> 00:44:23.068 The Sabbath was given for humanity. 00:44:26.223 --> 00:44:29.763 Yeah, so we tell our younger selves to Sabbath. Sabbath more. 00:44:32.423 --> 00:44:37.163 Yep, Sabbath more. Yeah, I don't think we'll. 00:44:39.740 --> 00:44:44.310 I don't think, you know, I don't know when I'll retire in ministry. 00:44:47.824 --> 00:44:53.350 You know, I'll think I'll be, by God's grace, you know, it'll be like, 00:44:54.522 --> 00:45:02.630 you know, I'll have like a 50-year career in ministry, maybe. Occupational ministry. 00:45:03.875 --> 00:45:08.710 Right. It is hard when I like tell people that like, because I think technically I'm 00:45:08.710 --> 00:45:12.710 I'm around five years of professional full-time ministry. 00:45:12.710 --> 00:45:19.870 It doesn't feel that way because I've been so involved in church life and ministry and schooling and all of that. 00:45:19.870 --> 00:45:23.743 So sometimes it feels like, has it only been five years? 00:45:23.910 --> 00:45:27.416 It's a lot longer. I don't think I'll ever be done teaching the Bible, 00:45:27.550 --> 00:45:35.176 teaching the word of God or shepherding people, whether I'm doing that as a pastor or- 00:45:35.270 --> 00:45:36.970 Whether we're getting paid or not. Right. 00:45:37.166 --> 00:45:48.510 But at the end of whatever my career, professional career will be, I don't think that I'm going to say, I really, really wish I would have just put more 00:45:48.510 --> 00:45:49.184 hours in. 00:45:51.210 --> 00:45:54.570 I think if I have a regret, it's going to be like, I didn't spend enough time 00:45:54.570 --> 00:45:57.889 with my kids, didn't have spent enough time with my wife. 00:45:58.276 --> 00:46:02.741 I didn't spend enough time with the Lord. Yeah. 00:46:03.642 --> 00:46:08.850 You know, I think that's going to be the regret. if there's regret, and I just like looking forward, 00:46:08.850 --> 00:46:16.170 like looking ahead, I'm like, I don't, I'm not gonna have that regret. 00:46:16.170 --> 00:46:18.567 I refuse to have that regret. 00:46:18.694 --> 00:46:25.770 I refuse to have my kids someday look at me and be like, you cared more about the church 00:46:25.770 --> 00:46:27.039 than you did about us. 00:46:28.677 --> 00:46:57.527 You know, there's, I think, I hope that this is, I think this is a broader experience and movement of the Spirit in our, in our generation of ministers and pastors and ministry leaders. But the, I remember, I had to take a class on like missions and history of missions and stuff like that. And we had to read like these, like biographies and stories of all of these great missionaries. 00:46:58.528 --> 00:47:02.580 Went and did really awesome things to advance the gospel in foreign countries and things like that. 00:47:03.543 --> 00:47:08.530 And one of the things that was almost laughable at a certain point was, like, 00:47:09.898 --> 00:47:16.207 and their fifth wife died of malaria. Like, you were reading these stories and these. 00:47:18.207 --> 00:47:21.487 Missionaries would get married and bring their kids on the mission field, 00:47:21.487 --> 00:47:31.407 and then their entire family would die. Or to take it even and make it a little bit, 00:47:33.106 --> 00:47:40.287 kind of closer to home, is if you look at the revivalists in America and you examine their 00:47:40.287 --> 00:47:48.207 marriages, I cannot remember which particular revivalist. I think him and his wife, his final 00:47:48.207 --> 00:47:53.967 wife. I think his first wife died at some point. And then I think his second wife, I think he, 00:47:55.414 --> 00:48:01.327 they spent a laughable amount of time together. It was like a handful of weeks in actual person, 00:48:02.287 --> 00:48:08.767 contact, and then they're buried in entirely different states. And I don't see those things. 00:48:08.845 --> 00:48:11.967 I think you can look at those and say, oh, look at the sacrifices for the gospel. 00:48:12.707 --> 00:48:21.527 And I'm just like, I don't know that God called us to sacrifice the calling of being fathers 00:48:21.527 --> 00:48:26.507 and husbands and faithful in those areas on the field of. 00:48:27.741 --> 00:48:35.911 Ministry. I think that's a misunderstanding of both Jesus' and Paul's teaching on singleness. 00:48:36.608 --> 00:48:40.311 I see that as like, you neglected the teaching of singleness. 00:48:42.306 --> 00:48:51.911 And in doing so, you caused great harm to others. And yeah, I don't think that's honoring. 00:48:51.911 --> 00:49:00.511 No. You know, I think there's a, you know, and it's really sad when I do hear people who 00:49:00.511 --> 00:49:05.671 grew up as pastor's kids or pastor's wives. 00:49:05.671 --> 00:49:18.531 It was actually a really scary thing when, like, when Oxana and I were getting engaged 00:49:18.531 --> 00:49:22.771 we were getting married, some people were coming and like telling us horror stories about like, 00:49:22.771 --> 00:49:28.131 they're like, Oh, well, get ready for all of this miserable experience of being married to a pastor. 00:49:28.875 --> 00:49:38.051 And I was like, No, that's not the life I want for her for me. You know, we were just, I was like, 00:49:38.051 --> 00:49:43.571 Nope, like, we're gonna have different boundaries than that. That's not how we're gonna live as a 00:49:43.666 --> 00:49:54.611 a couple and as a pastor. Yep. Right. Exactly. So, and that's the unique application to us. But like, to anyone, if you've 00:49:54.611 --> 00:50:01.971 got a job, and you've got others to call a teacher, business owner, work, construction, or a nurse, or whatever, whatever you 00:50:01.971 --> 00:50:07.571 are, right, you can fall into those same patterns and habits 00:50:07.657 --> 00:50:08.291 doesn't matter. 00:50:09.674 --> 00:50:18.460 Yep. fall to the urgent or fall to the sense of importance or significance, and neglect the other things in your life. Yeah. 00:50:18.865 --> 00:50:30.431 But then also, if you are single, like, perhaps consider how that can be a gift to you, and to others. So we probably do 00:50:30.712 --> 00:50:37.553 a whole podcast episode on single singleness. Yeah. I have lots of thoughts there. Yeah. Let's do it. Yeah. Okay. All. 00:50:40.668 --> 00:50:42.802 All right, well, I think we're gonna end today. Yeah. 00:50:45.191 --> 00:50:51.651 Wonder what we'll title this one. I don't know. Thoughts on preaching and Sabbath. Yeah. 00:50:53.071 --> 00:50:56.211 As always, if you have any questions that you'd like to text into us, 00:50:56.211 --> 00:51:00.545 our text line is 716-201-0507. 00:51:01.391 --> 00:51:07.378 And we'd love to be able to feature your question on our next Mailbag episode, which may be fairly soon. 00:51:08.035 --> 00:51:14.111 Also, please like this episode, share it, and subscribe on whatever platform you're 00:51:14.111 --> 00:51:17.866 listening to, Spotify, Apple, or YouTube. 00:51:18.010 --> 00:51:18.802 Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time. 00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:25.481 Music.