1 00:00:08,970 --> 00:00:11,440 Kevin: Hello and welcome back to Subspace Radio. 2 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:12,100 It's me, Kevin, 3 00:00:12,173 --> 00:00:13,043 Rob: and me, Rob. 4 00:00:13,485 --> 00:00:18,345 Kevin: We are here to talk about another episode of Strange New Worlds, or is it a 5 00:00:18,345 --> 00:00:21,615 leaked documentary from the 23rd Century? 6 00:00:21,847 --> 00:00:24,367 Rob: I believe it's a feature length documentary. 7 00:00:24,465 --> 00:00:28,335 Kevin: Yes, I believe that is what we were promised, and what that turns out to mean 8 00:00:28,335 --> 00:00:30,795 is the shortest episode of the season. 9 00:00:30,825 --> 00:00:34,515 In fact, the shortest episode of the entire series so far 10 00:00:34,515 --> 00:00:35,595 is what we got this week. 11 00:00:35,692 --> 00:00:37,877 Rob: And it didn't feel like that at all. 12 00:00:40,425 --> 00:00:40,995 Kevin: Wow. 13 00:00:41,055 --> 00:00:41,415 Okay. 14 00:00:41,415 --> 00:00:43,965 Some spicy takes already going on here. 15 00:00:44,247 --> 00:00:47,547 Need I ask what you made of What is Starfleet, Rob? 16 00:00:48,204 --> 00:00:51,564 Rob: Look, I will tell you this, I'm very grateful. 17 00:00:51,564 --> 00:00:55,794 I'm incredibly grateful that the answer to the question of what is 18 00:00:55,794 --> 00:01:01,194 Starfleet wasn't carrying on from a discovery trope of talking about stuff 19 00:01:01,224 --> 00:01:03,829 and then repeating: that's Starfleet. 20 00:01:04,279 --> 00:01:07,639 That's Starfleet, something that Michael Burnham did quite 21 00:01:07,639 --> 00:01:08,779 a lot at the end of season one. 22 00:01:09,049 --> 00:01:12,349 But no, I will not talk about what the episode didn't have. 23 00:01:12,559 --> 00:01:18,079 Um, look, I was a little bit to the point of very disappointed in this episode. 24 00:01:18,079 --> 00:01:19,999 It was a bit of a mess. 25 00:01:20,209 --> 00:01:22,219 It was a bit of a disappointment. 26 00:01:22,279 --> 00:01:25,549 It was a bit of a horrifying watch. 27 00:01:25,939 --> 00:01:30,709 Um, a lot of moral questions and a lot of decisions made to be 28 00:01:30,709 --> 00:01:34,999 clever or to be interesting or to have sympathy for people, but 29 00:01:34,999 --> 00:01:36,619 we don't really have it for them. 30 00:01:36,819 --> 00:01:40,639 The stuff with the big space creature is was, was really, really cool. 31 00:01:40,639 --> 00:01:41,059 I liked that 32 00:01:41,157 --> 00:01:41,787 Kevin: Oh good. 33 00:01:41,787 --> 00:01:44,757 So the episode within the episode was good. 34 00:01:44,787 --> 00:01:46,527 It was the framing device that really 35 00:01:46,729 --> 00:01:49,879 Rob: If we had it as a stock standard star trekky type 36 00:01:49,879 --> 00:01:51,919 episode, it would've been great. 37 00:01:51,979 --> 00:01:58,069 But all the, they didn't really use that format of a mockumentary, and I 38 00:01:58,069 --> 00:02:01,339 do that in commas to, to its advantage. 39 00:02:01,369 --> 00:02:06,589 It just was a different way of showing the episode that raised more 40 00:02:06,589 --> 00:02:10,159 questions than answered them and didn't make it interesting at all. 41 00:02:10,159 --> 00:02:12,229 I was really disappointed in this. 42 00:02:12,357 --> 00:02:14,907 Kevin: I will go a step further and say, not only did it not make it 43 00:02:14,907 --> 00:02:20,487 interesting, it actually made it harder to watch, it, less enjoyable to watch. 44 00:02:21,117 --> 00:02:25,317 I wrote, if this is what cinematography looks like in the 23rd century, we 45 00:02:25,317 --> 00:02:27,657 are indeed in a golden age today. 46 00:02:27,694 --> 00:02:28,624 Rob: Well, that's the thing. 47 00:02:28,624 --> 00:02:32,409 Yeah, there's so much type of, so a focus on, they've taken this footage 48 00:02:33,079 --> 00:02:38,824 from, from ship's logs or stuff like that, so a lot of really awkward, 49 00:02:38,824 --> 00:02:41,914 horrible low angle shots, up and up 50 00:02:42,282 --> 00:02:45,762 Kevin: Yeah, super close up, low angle looks to camera. 51 00:02:45,762 --> 00:02:50,952 A lot of the, like the premise of the, the surveillance shots is a lot of those 52 00:02:50,952 --> 00:02:55,662 cameras are behind the screen, or at least the screen itself is recording the image. 53 00:02:55,842 --> 00:02:59,352 And so a lot of cases of like people doing their jobs looking 54 00:02:59,352 --> 00:03:02,412 directly at the camera and it feels like, whoa, you just looked at me. 55 00:03:02,442 --> 00:03:02,802 \Why? 56 00:03:02,832 --> 00:03:03,282 Oh, right. 57 00:03:03,282 --> 00:03:06,972 You were looking at the screen that I'm meant to understand is between us. 58 00:03:07,122 --> 00:03:09,432 Uh, and yeah, it's certainly like. 59 00:03:09,612 --> 00:03:14,712 It has a novelty of getting to see these characters played more up close 60 00:03:14,712 --> 00:03:19,122 than usual, at a different angle than usual, but none of it was flattering 61 00:03:19,122 --> 00:03:24,042 and none of it served anything other than a, a break from the norm. 62 00:03:24,169 --> 00:03:30,979 Rob: Yeah, it was that case of it, it was all style. 63 00:03:31,189 --> 00:03:32,659 And it wasn't a very good style. 64 00:03:32,659 --> 00:03:34,189 It was a very ugly style 65 00:03:34,497 --> 00:03:38,667 Kevin: I really hate that drone cam, like we've seen it earlier in the 66 00:03:38,667 --> 00:03:43,827 series and it was played for comedy, just how annoying and intrusive it was. 67 00:03:44,307 --> 00:03:49,137 And then I did not, it did not occur to me, it should have, that we are gonna 68 00:03:49,137 --> 00:03:53,097 get to see an entire episode filmed through the lens of that camera, and not 69 00:03:53,102 --> 00:03:57,807 only only is it annoying to be filmed by that camera, it's annoying to watch 70 00:03:57,807 --> 00:04:02,722 a film from that camera, because it's swooping, it's getting in people's faces. 71 00:04:02,902 --> 00:04:08,632 I feel like the characters are annoyed at me, the viewer half the time, which is not 72 00:04:08,632 --> 00:04:09,922 what you want from the characters that you 73 00:04:10,084 --> 00:04:11,614 Rob: No, no, no, no, no, no. 74 00:04:11,614 --> 00:04:12,664 Yes it was. 75 00:04:13,384 --> 00:04:14,314 Yeah, it was. 76 00:04:14,392 --> 00:04:18,652 Kevin: And this is why Scotty and Pelia went on holiday that week, obviously. 77 00:04:19,054 --> 00:04:22,714 Rob: that was the smartest move ever for the both of 'em. 78 00:04:23,047 --> 00:04:26,887 Yeah, this was all style and no substance and the style 79 00:04:26,947 --> 00:04:28,387 didn't help with the substance. 80 00:04:28,387 --> 00:04:31,237 It should have been there to elevate it forward. 81 00:04:31,237 --> 00:04:34,827 I mean, there's an episode of the X-Files later in its run 82 00:04:34,827 --> 00:04:37,647 when they were going wacky, when they were like completely wacky. 83 00:04:37,777 --> 00:04:41,137 There's an episode where they joined up with COPS and that's 84 00:04:41,137 --> 00:04:42,727 an in incred that I remember. 85 00:04:42,847 --> 00:04:44,317 I'd never watched the X-Files, but I 86 00:04:44,510 --> 00:04:45,070 Kevin: I loved that. 87 00:04:45,217 --> 00:04:47,497 Rob: I tuned into that one and it was beautifully done. 88 00:04:47,497 --> 00:04:53,827 And they manipulated how they told the story through the use of the, the cops. 89 00:04:53,902 --> 00:04:55,612 Format, which was really good. 90 00:04:55,882 --> 00:04:59,482 But there's another, there's a Doctor Who story, uh, from the Peter Capaldi 91 00:04:59,482 --> 00:05:04,372 era called Sleep No More, which is done in a similar found footage, uh, 92 00:05:04,402 --> 00:05:07,432 format, and it doesn't work at all. 93 00:05:07,432 --> 00:05:10,132 It's one of the weakest Doctor Who stories of the modern era. 94 00:05:10,222 --> 00:05:16,492 Um, and so I was going into this a little bit trepidatious and, and, and my, my 95 00:05:16,492 --> 00:05:21,502 worst fears were realized that was, yeah, do I use the word embarrassing? 96 00:05:22,335 --> 00:05:24,435 Kevin: Yeah, that's strong. 97 00:05:24,607 --> 00:05:26,797 Rob: Well, yeah, especially 'cause I love the show so much. 98 00:05:26,797 --> 00:05:28,807 I've been such an advocate for it, especially, 99 00:05:28,845 --> 00:05:29,535 Kevin: Yeah. 100 00:05:29,535 --> 00:05:33,315 And but I, what I'm hearing from you is that beyond just not enjoying it 101 00:05:33,315 --> 00:05:37,605 yourself, you felt embarrassed that other people will be watching this and judging 102 00:05:37,672 --> 00:05:39,382 Rob: I've never, yeah, I've never thought that. 103 00:05:39,382 --> 00:05:43,282 I'm aware of like there's some hardcore Star Trek fans out there, 104 00:05:43,282 --> 00:05:46,552 bemoaning anything of the new era. 105 00:05:46,822 --> 00:05:51,712 Um, and I've been going into bat for this show and, and, and, and as, as what it 106 00:05:51,712 --> 00:05:57,892 stands for and how it has those elements of Star Trek, despite the glitz and glamor 107 00:05:57,922 --> 00:06:01,132 and modern lens that it's coming through. 108 00:06:01,432 --> 00:06:07,117 Um, but this one, there was a little bit of a moment of me going, oh no, you didn't 109 00:06:07,117 --> 00:06:10,177 just do that in front of my boss at work. 110 00:06:10,177 --> 00:06:12,835 Or like, like, I feel 111 00:06:12,885 --> 00:06:15,365 Kevin: People know I'm a fan of this! 112 00:06:15,487 --> 00:06:16,507 Rob: We talked about this. 113 00:06:16,537 --> 00:06:17,107 All right. 114 00:06:17,317 --> 00:06:18,457 You do not embarrass me. 115 00:06:18,787 --> 00:06:21,757 We are, we are been invited around to the boss's house for, for dinner and drinks. 116 00:06:23,490 --> 00:06:25,890 Kevin: I don't think I was that strong against it. 117 00:06:26,070 --> 00:06:31,050 Uh, but I, I would not rate this highly for sure. 118 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,140 I'm, I'd be curious in drilling into what some of those cringe moments were for 119 00:06:34,140 --> 00:06:38,790 you, but like for me, the two biggest sins of this episode were, were, one, 120 00:06:38,790 --> 00:06:46,140 it was unpleasant to watch, and two, I don't think the story about Beto 121 00:06:46,350 --> 00:06:48,810 Ortegas the filmmaker, makes any sense. 122 00:06:48,982 --> 00:06:53,602 Rob: It really doesn't, especially because, especially because we 123 00:06:53,602 --> 00:06:56,272 haven't sit like this is about, 124 00:06:56,470 --> 00:06:59,280 Kevin: He's been so happy go lucky, like part of the team. 125 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:00,840 I'm so stoked to be here. 126 00:07:01,653 --> 00:07:06,153 If anything like that's the foundation that his supposed burgeoning relationship 127 00:07:06,153 --> 00:07:11,823 with Uhura is founded on and in this episode we are, I think, asked to 128 00:07:11,823 --> 00:07:16,443 believe that either that was all a front he was putting on, in which case 129 00:07:16,443 --> 00:07:23,083 that character is pretty irredeemable for what he put poor Uhura through, or 130 00:07:23,173 --> 00:07:27,753 they changed, they forgot to tell the writers of the previous episodes that 131 00:07:27,813 --> 00:07:32,913 Ortegas is a Starfleet skeptic because he hasn't asked any skeptical questions. 132 00:07:32,913 --> 00:07:37,023 He has shown no skepticism whatsoever about the missions up until this 133 00:07:37,023 --> 00:07:41,103 point, until the start of this episode where he is suddenly like, 134 00:07:41,313 --> 00:07:42,723 How does it feel to kill people? 135 00:07:43,083 --> 00:07:44,283 Is this a warship? 136 00:07:44,283 --> 00:07:45,573 Like where is that coming 137 00:07:45,745 --> 00:07:47,035 Rob: It came outta nowhere. 138 00:07:47,065 --> 00:07:47,905 Exactly. 139 00:07:48,115 --> 00:07:51,535 There was, and I'm gonna, you know, ring the bell, drop the money into 140 00:07:51,595 --> 00:07:58,435 our, um, frequently stated in our podcast jar, if we had more episodes 141 00:07:58,623 --> 00:08:00,528 Kevin: Mm. They could have built that 142 00:08:00,595 --> 00:08:02,215 Rob: That came outta nowhere. 143 00:08:02,215 --> 00:08:06,355 And especially a, a big part of this was Ortegas being injured or hurt. 144 00:08:06,595 --> 00:08:10,525 That, sadly, we saw that as hopefully being something that would 145 00:08:10,525 --> 00:08:11,960 expand out through this season. 146 00:08:12,273 --> 00:08:13,113 Kevin: I think this is it. 147 00:08:13,113 --> 00:08:13,898 I think this is all we get. 148 00:08:14,020 --> 00:08:15,100 Rob: This is all we get. 149 00:08:15,100 --> 00:08:16,060 We got sort of like 150 00:08:16,143 --> 00:08:19,353 Kevin: We get one speech at the end where, where she's like, I came 151 00:08:19,353 --> 00:08:22,263 to Starfleet 'cause it's a thing I could control when mom was dying 152 00:08:22,323 --> 00:08:23,673 and then I couldn't control it. 153 00:08:23,673 --> 00:08:24,543 And that freaked me out. 154 00:08:24,633 --> 00:08:26,823 Uh, but I'm better now, thanks to my 155 00:08:27,145 --> 00:08:31,255 Rob: Ortega gets PTSD, she causes disruptions on the bridge. 156 00:08:31,255 --> 00:08:32,395 She's put on suspension. 157 00:08:32,545 --> 00:08:35,365 The very next episode, she's pulled outta suspension because they 158 00:08:35,365 --> 00:08:36,835 need her on the bridge to fly. 159 00:08:37,045 --> 00:08:38,335 Then there's nothing dealt with it. 160 00:08:38,335 --> 00:08:42,685 And then there's this lovey-dovey brother, uh, you know, Uhura, 161 00:08:43,353 --> 00:08:43,803 Kevin: Yeah. 162 00:08:43,945 --> 00:08:45,415 Rob: no, this isn't happening, type thing. 163 00:08:45,415 --> 00:08:48,865 And then the episode hits, you know, they, they're col 164 00:08:48,873 --> 00:08:49,773 Kevin: all, no comment. 165 00:08:49,990 --> 00:08:51,310 Rob: These are colonizers. 166 00:08:51,370 --> 00:08:52,120 They're taking over. 167 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,010 I'm going, where has, yeah. 168 00:08:54,143 --> 00:08:54,443 Kevin: Yeah. 169 00:08:54,870 --> 00:08:58,410 Rob: A lot of lines that we had to fill in the blank. 170 00:08:58,583 --> 00:09:00,923 Kevin: You know, I love to bend over backwards to make 171 00:09:00,923 --> 00:09:02,273 Star Trek makes sense, Rob. 172 00:09:02,273 --> 00:09:05,783 And in my, and when I try to do this, I can only get part of the way there. 173 00:09:05,843 --> 00:09:12,803 I can, I can maybe tell a story where there is a narrative back home, um, among 174 00:09:12,803 --> 00:09:18,828 the planets of the Federation, there is anti Starfleet sentiment, that is growing. 175 00:09:18,828 --> 00:09:26,223 And Beto is either funded by those people or he comes with that with that premise. 176 00:09:26,793 --> 00:09:29,883 He knows that premise exists in the minds of his audience. 177 00:09:29,913 --> 00:09:34,833 And so he makes a movie that starts by playing into that to get that 178 00:09:34,833 --> 00:09:39,003 skeptical audience on side and then twist, here's what I learned 179 00:09:39,003 --> 00:09:40,023 when I went looking for that. 180 00:09:40,023 --> 00:09:42,363 Not only was I wrong, but you are wrong to even think it. 181 00:09:42,363 --> 00:09:44,553 You should feel bad about yourself, audience. 182 00:09:45,033 --> 00:09:46,893 But I don't know if that makes sense. 183 00:09:47,283 --> 00:09:51,423 And even if it did, like, we didn't see any of it in the se previous 184 00:09:51,423 --> 00:09:52,683 episodes of this character. 185 00:09:52,683 --> 00:09:53,868 So, yeah, I, I, I dunno. 186 00:09:54,070 --> 00:09:58,585 Rob: And especially, issues about sort of like questioning Starfleet is good and 187 00:09:58,585 --> 00:10:02,545 some, like you've talked about before, one of your favorite moments of, uh, Deep 188 00:10:02,545 --> 00:10:06,475 Space Nine is a scene that we're gonna cut between Garak and Quark, talking 189 00:10:06,475 --> 00:10:08,125 about what the Federation means for 190 00:10:08,253 --> 00:10:09,843 Kevin: It's insidious. 191 00:10:10,495 --> 00:10:13,975 Rob: you know, you get to like it, um, just like root beer. 192 00:10:14,275 --> 00:10:17,665 But then you've got another episodes in Deep Space Nine where Bajor's on 193 00:10:17,665 --> 00:10:22,525 the verge of joining the Federation and Sisko was aware that, through the 194 00:10:22,525 --> 00:10:25,435 prophets and visions and stuff like that, that this isn't meant to happen. 195 00:10:25,645 --> 00:10:30,985 And Bajor is, you know, benefits because of not being a, you know, and is saved 196 00:10:30,985 --> 00:10:32,445 because of not being in Starfleet. 197 00:10:32,905 --> 00:10:36,625 And the questioning of staff fleet is a good thing, but the way it was 198 00:10:36,625 --> 00:10:40,735 handled, it was clumsy not only as a character point of view, but as a, a 199 00:10:40,735 --> 00:10:45,835 writing point of view, so that at the end where they, there was a, a smugness 200 00:10:45,835 --> 00:10:48,325 and a sense of never question us again. 201 00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:52,540 You're going, oh, but no, that's not the message that Starfleet should be, or that 202 00:10:52,540 --> 00:10:54,520 Star Trek should be putting out there. 203 00:10:54,970 --> 00:10:58,900 Those questions should be asked, but the way it was written and 204 00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:04,180 the way it was executed was, uh, just awkward to watch and 205 00:11:04,458 --> 00:11:05,628 Kevin: There were moments I liked. 206 00:11:05,658 --> 00:11:08,328 I did like the episode within the episode about the giant space 207 00:11:08,328 --> 00:11:11,898 creature or the, the space dragon as Ortegas called it on the bridge. 208 00:11:12,258 --> 00:11:16,548 Um, and, and we've chosen that as our topic to explore in other episodes. 209 00:11:16,548 --> 00:11:19,608 I think giant space creatures are great, and this one was a good one. 210 00:11:20,028 --> 00:11:25,548 I think this, the story was of of like this space creature that was 211 00:11:25,548 --> 00:11:30,878 harnessed into a weapon and Starfleet was going along with it for some 212 00:11:30,878 --> 00:11:32,708 reason, that is never fully made clear. 213 00:11:32,708 --> 00:11:33,788 That's all been redacted. 214 00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:36,930 Rob: It's, yes, so there's two races fighting. 215 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:38,430 Um, and you 216 00:11:38,603 --> 00:11:43,223 Kevin: The ones losing the war were allied with the Klingons during the war, but 217 00:11:43,223 --> 00:11:51,413 for some reason, the Starfleet wants to come to the rescue now, by, by enabling 218 00:11:51,413 --> 00:11:58,043 this transport of what is initially called cargo, then livestock, then a 219 00:11:58,043 --> 00:12:01,588 tool they will use in their rebuilding efforts, and then finally a weapon. 220 00:12:01,740 --> 00:12:05,160 Rob: So yes, the Federation was just under the impression they wanted more 221 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:11,520 supplies or food or whatever for, you know, because they're being starved 222 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,320 out, there, there's a war going on. 223 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,675 This particular race is being, you know, dominated by this other race. 224 00:12:18,675 --> 00:12:21,795 They showed the, the loss of lives within this war. 225 00:12:21,855 --> 00:12:25,725 And so they're kind of not being peacekeepers, but trying to negotiate it. 226 00:12:25,725 --> 00:12:28,335 And you could draw any modern parallels and that type of 227 00:12:28,335 --> 00:12:29,625 stuff within Star Trek is great. 228 00:12:29,625 --> 00:12:31,005 It happened back in the sixties. 229 00:12:31,005 --> 00:12:33,435 It's happening in the nineties, and it happens now. 230 00:12:33,495 --> 00:12:33,855 Great. 231 00:12:33,885 --> 00:12:34,215 Good. 232 00:12:34,215 --> 00:12:34,635 Love it. 233 00:12:35,025 --> 00:12:40,980 Um, little bit murky with all the, the morality behind it all, but I 234 00:12:40,980 --> 00:12:44,310 guess that's, could be a reference to, you know, parallels today. 235 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,550 But yes, that slow reveal of, oh no, no, this creature is 236 00:12:47,550 --> 00:12:49,110 being called out as a weapon. 237 00:12:49,620 --> 00:12:49,685 Oh, no, no. 238 00:12:49,690 --> 00:12:53,310 This creature is a weapon because it's being manipulated by the 239 00:12:53,310 --> 00:12:55,290 species who controls them. 240 00:12:55,590 --> 00:13:00,900 Oh, this species can communicate and does not like being used as a weapon. 241 00:13:01,350 --> 00:13:05,450 Um, and wants to be, you know, wants to end its misery. 242 00:13:05,550 --> 00:13:10,530 And also wants its children on this planet that's protected, um, to, you 243 00:13:10,530 --> 00:13:12,450 know, not be used or exploited for 244 00:13:12,728 --> 00:13:13,688 Kevin: Yeah, all good stuff. 245 00:13:13,713 --> 00:13:17,618 And, and like every glimpse we got of the episode that actually happened here, 246 00:13:17,768 --> 00:13:22,328 like made me wanna watch that episode more than this episode that we got to 247 00:13:22,425 --> 00:13:22,965 Rob: Yes. 248 00:13:22,995 --> 00:13:23,325 Yes. 249 00:13:23,325 --> 00:13:29,625 And it was a, and shout out to Mothra from the Godzilla universe for cameo this week. 250 00:13:29,955 --> 00:13:31,395 Really good cameo performance. 251 00:13:31,395 --> 00:13:33,645 Mothra, you've shown you range as an actor. 252 00:13:34,028 --> 00:13:38,138 Kevin: It looked amazing coming out of the water, uh, and going up into space. 253 00:13:38,415 --> 00:13:42,675 Rob: That was an amazing shot, and part of me went, how'd I get the footage of that? 254 00:13:42,675 --> 00:13:43,875 And don't worry, don't worry, don't worry. 255 00:13:45,015 --> 00:13:45,585 It looked too good. 256 00:13:46,688 --> 00:13:49,448 Kevin: The sun at the start and the end looked really nice as well. 257 00:13:49,448 --> 00:13:54,548 Like the, the opening, the first moments of this episode really had me leaning in. 258 00:13:55,088 --> 00:14:02,333 The silent, like, slow coasting over the, the detail of that, that sun 259 00:14:02,333 --> 00:14:07,673 that ended up playing a central role in the, the end of this episode. 260 00:14:07,847 --> 00:14:13,277 Those quiet, silent moments that made me feel like this is a documentary. 261 00:14:13,277 --> 00:14:15,587 We're taking this slow, this is. 262 00:14:15,722 --> 00:14:21,692 This is, um, about facts and, and, uh, like it made me feel like we were about 263 00:14:21,692 --> 00:14:25,952 to watch a nature documentary about Starfleet, which would've been amazing. 264 00:14:26,522 --> 00:14:29,822 But, uh, instead it, like, everything that in between those 265 00:14:30,032 --> 00:14:32,222 two shots really bothered me. 266 00:14:33,182 --> 00:14:38,068 Uh, when Beto got pushed off the bridge and it switched to just the, 267 00:14:38,098 --> 00:14:41,368 the security fat camera footage, I was like, oh, that's better. 268 00:14:41,458 --> 00:14:44,278 That's, you know, I, I can, this is a relief. 269 00:14:44,435 --> 00:14:44,975 Rob: Yeah. 270 00:14:45,425 --> 00:14:49,955 Um, the backstory stuff about a bit more detail of Uhura was really nice. 271 00:14:50,015 --> 00:14:58,265 Um, and her, her, her loss of, um, her friend that she found out about that 272 00:14:58,265 --> 00:15:00,335 was like the character was manipulating 273 00:15:00,373 --> 00:15:02,503 Kevin: Elena Cho from the Cayou guy. 274 00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:07,280 Rob: And there's a little bit, I like the, the focus on Ortegas. 275 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,620 We had her, like, she's a bit of a grease monkey. 276 00:15:09,620 --> 00:15:10,880 Tom Paris would be happy. 277 00:15:11,270 --> 00:15:11,990 Um, 278 00:15:12,193 --> 00:15:13,273 Kevin: about that just yet last 279 00:15:13,340 --> 00:15:14,000 Rob: So this is the thing. 280 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,670 I'm, I'm gathering scraps of Ortegas 281 00:15:16,843 --> 00:15:19,453 Kevin: There are things to like here, but they belonged in the 282 00:15:19,453 --> 00:15:24,493 episode that got chopped up and, and framed by an unpleasant and 283 00:15:24,523 --> 00:15:26,893 nonsensical, uh, documentary. 284 00:15:27,095 --> 00:15:30,575 Rob: We should be seeing more of Ortegas doing that grease monkey 285 00:15:30,575 --> 00:15:34,985 stuff throughout the last two seasons, not just now going, oh, okay. 286 00:15:34,985 --> 00:15:35,405 Of course. 287 00:15:35,405 --> 00:15:38,945 Well, she's a, she's a, you know, she flies the ship, so of course she's that. 288 00:15:39,365 --> 00:15:42,785 But you shouldn't be realizing that near the end of season three, you should be 289 00:15:43,073 --> 00:15:46,603 Kevin: This is the strength and the weakness of Strange New Worlds is that 290 00:15:46,603 --> 00:15:50,850 it is almost, it is almost counter to the mission to do a normal episode 291 00:15:50,850 --> 00:15:52,920 of Star Trek on Strange New Worlds. 292 00:15:53,250 --> 00:15:57,630 And what we saw here was glimpses of a great normal episode of Star 293 00:15:57,630 --> 00:15:59,040 Trek, but they went, no, no, no. 294 00:15:59,340 --> 00:16:00,690 This is Strange New Worlds. 295 00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:02,400 We've, yeah, yeah. 296 00:16:02,460 --> 00:16:02,820 Yeah. 297 00:16:02,872 --> 00:16:07,252 Rob: We have to be, we have to be weird, wonderful, or wacky. 298 00:16:07,402 --> 00:16:10,732 That's our, we, we are standalone episodes with a little bit of an 299 00:16:10,732 --> 00:16:14,722 arc and we have to do something big and bold each, so this can be the 300 00:16:14,722 --> 00:16:16,882 crossover episode with Lower Decks. 301 00:16:16,912 --> 00:16:18,202 This is the musical episode. 302 00:16:18,202 --> 00:16:19,312 This is the puppet episode. 303 00:16:19,312 --> 00:16:20,332 This is that episode. 304 00:16:20,332 --> 00:16:21,862 This is the documentary episode. 305 00:16:22,072 --> 00:16:22,432 Yeah. 306 00:16:22,605 --> 00:16:26,205 Kevin: As many of those hit as, as miss, and this was an obvious miss, 307 00:16:26,542 --> 00:16:27,382 Rob: Yeah, yeah. 308 00:16:27,525 --> 00:16:28,455 Kevin: to you and me anyway. 309 00:16:28,597 --> 00:16:31,417 Rob: Yeah, and I think the general consensus has been a little bit the 310 00:16:31,417 --> 00:16:35,587 same as well, which is a real shame coming into, especially after the 311 00:16:35,587 --> 00:16:37,807 powerhouse of last week's episode. 312 00:16:37,857 --> 00:16:41,217 As you were talking about, you've been a bit, a little bit, you know, 313 00:16:41,217 --> 00:16:44,577 disappointed with this season and so this momentum was building up and where 314 00:16:44,577 --> 00:16:46,167 they're going, yeah, let's go with this. 315 00:16:46,227 --> 00:16:47,277 Alright, let's see where we go. 316 00:16:47,277 --> 00:16:50,067 What is Starfleet and, oh, stumbled so. 317 00:16:50,125 --> 00:16:50,575 Kevin: Yep. 318 00:16:51,145 --> 00:16:54,415 Well, uh, what we've got a couple of episodes left this season. 319 00:16:54,415 --> 00:16:58,555 We'll see, uh, we'll see what the Vulcans give us this week, but in the meantime, 320 00:16:58,615 --> 00:17:04,785 we are going to follow that, that rogue space dragon into the sun and see what 321 00:17:04,785 --> 00:17:07,255 other giant space creatures we can find 322 00:17:07,817 --> 00:17:09,887 Rob: excited, very excited to do this. 323 00:17:09,887 --> 00:17:13,157 Let's, as always, we need to find out where we are in the timeline. 324 00:17:13,337 --> 00:17:13,877 So we are 325 00:17:14,035 --> 00:17:15,625 Kevin: I'm back to TNG this week. 326 00:17:16,607 --> 00:17:19,307 Rob: I'm in TNG as well. 327 00:17:19,494 --> 00:17:23,514 I'm doing a season one episode and a season five episode. 328 00:17:23,807 --> 00:17:26,027 Kevin: Well, I know what season one episode you're talking about. 329 00:17:26,027 --> 00:17:28,760 Let's start at Farpoint, where it all begins. 330 00:17:28,833 --> 00:17:29,153 Rob: Nuh! 331 00:17:29,419 --> 00:17:29,787 Kevin: No! 332 00:17:29,787 --> 00:17:32,217 Wow, there's so many giant space creatures, Rob. 333 00:17:32,217 --> 00:17:34,617 I thought for sure you were gonna take us to the big, uh, you know, 334 00:17:34,617 --> 00:17:38,997 Farpoint Station is revealed at the end of the pilot to be one of a pair 335 00:17:38,997 --> 00:17:41,607 of these giant space fairing creatures. 336 00:17:41,607 --> 00:17:42,417 The jellyfish. 337 00:17:42,514 --> 00:17:42,994 Rob: No. 338 00:17:42,994 --> 00:17:49,074 I am going to season one, episode 13, Datalore. 339 00:17:49,812 --> 00:17:51,492 Kevin: Ooh, the crystalline 340 00:17:51,754 --> 00:17:53,824 Rob: The crystalline entity. 341 00:17:53,914 --> 00:17:58,774 With the introduction of Lore and the introduction of the famous GIF 342 00:17:58,804 --> 00:18:01,114 meme everywhere, Shut up Wesley. 343 00:18:03,522 --> 00:18:04,362 Kevin: That is from that one. 344 00:18:04,362 --> 00:18:04,692 Is it? 345 00:18:04,692 --> 00:18:10,572 I, I, that is a, uh, a line completely devoid of context in my mind at 346 00:18:10,759 --> 00:18:13,339 Rob: For, for me, when it actually happened, I literally 347 00:18:13,339 --> 00:18:14,539 gave it a standing ovation. 348 00:18:14,539 --> 00:18:19,489 I stopped, went, it's that episode, and I'm literally there going, oh, 349 00:18:19,489 --> 00:18:24,199 this is this, this is, this is weird Picard, where he is so mean, and there's 350 00:18:24,199 --> 00:18:27,799 moments where he shows joy, but it's really weird why he's showing joy. 351 00:18:27,955 --> 00:18:31,765 Kevin: There's a lot of, if you'll pardon the expression, lore established 352 00:18:31,765 --> 00:18:38,605 in this episode about Data, the Soongs, the origins of, of Data and, and you 353 00:18:38,605 --> 00:18:42,505 know, his family, his brother, in this case, like, I feel like by the 354 00:18:42,505 --> 00:18:46,960 time we get to the movies, half of Data's story is coming from this. 355 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:53,530 The where he ends up in Picard season three is, it all starts here. 356 00:18:54,242 --> 00:18:57,722 Rob: And especially like in Picard season two, we had, uh, you know, 357 00:18:57,902 --> 00:19:02,732 Noonien Soong in, you know, with, um, Brent Spiner playing him. 358 00:19:02,732 --> 00:19:04,712 So I've seen it all in reverse. 359 00:19:05,492 --> 00:19:09,242 I've seen all this stuff about it, but I never saw the start of it. 360 00:19:09,242 --> 00:19:11,222 I never saw the first appearance of Lore. 361 00:19:11,642 --> 00:19:14,567 Um, this is one that, you know, Roddenberry had, 362 00:19:14,747 --> 00:19:16,277 uh, a big hand in writing. 363 00:19:16,277 --> 00:19:20,807 Well, a big hand as, as much of a big hand as you can have with about seven different 364 00:19:20,807 --> 00:19:22,697 writers that come up on the screen. 365 00:19:24,295 --> 00:19:26,365 Kevin: That's why this is so overstuffed with ideas. 366 00:19:26,365 --> 00:19:26,635 I feel 367 00:19:26,777 --> 00:19:27,707 Rob: It really is. 368 00:19:27,775 --> 00:19:31,795 Kevin: Just the story of finding Data's father is a whole episode, let alone 369 00:19:32,035 --> 00:19:38,845 finding Data's secret brother and facing the entity that destroyed their home. 370 00:19:39,025 --> 00:19:42,205 Uh, like all of that, there's just way too much in this 371 00:19:42,205 --> 00:19:43,885 episode, or way more than it needs 372 00:19:44,132 --> 00:19:45,782 Rob: They go to the planet he's created. 373 00:19:45,782 --> 00:19:47,582 The planet he's created is now dead. 374 00:19:47,762 --> 00:19:49,472 They go to the place where he was found. 375 00:19:49,472 --> 00:19:50,972 He talks about where he was found. 376 00:19:50,972 --> 00:19:52,442 They go down to the laboratory. 377 00:19:52,442 --> 00:19:53,762 They find this other body. 378 00:19:53,912 --> 00:19:54,932 They put it all together. 379 00:19:55,082 --> 00:19:58,832 They find out how the, how you can get the off switch of Data, 380 00:19:58,982 --> 00:20:00,452 which is just in his back. 381 00:20:00,782 --> 00:20:05,732 Um, you have Lore come to life and you find out who was first, who was second. 382 00:20:06,032 --> 00:20:11,312 Then you find out, um, you know, Wesley doesn't, you know, his 383 00:20:11,312 --> 00:20:15,572 observations of what a child is like compared to what Federation is like. 384 00:20:15,572 --> 00:20:16,352 What is more human? 385 00:20:16,352 --> 00:20:17,342 What isn't more human? 386 00:20:17,342 --> 00:20:19,322 Then you find out there was a deceit there. 387 00:20:19,592 --> 00:20:24,632 Then you find out he was in, in league with the crystalline creature and came 388 00:20:24,632 --> 00:20:28,802 back to kill all the colonists, 'cause the colonists were, wanted him to be 389 00:20:28,802 --> 00:20:31,772 turned off because he was too human. 390 00:20:32,002 --> 00:20:35,692 And so Data was the better version created, was less, you know, it was 391 00:20:35,692 --> 00:20:37,162 more appealing for the colonists. 392 00:20:37,162 --> 00:20:41,392 So Lore wanted to have revenge, um, and 393 00:20:41,785 --> 00:20:46,495 Kevin: Especially poignant that plot line in today's modern era of, uh, 394 00:20:46,495 --> 00:20:52,045 of rapidly advancing AI tools that, uh, yeah, will we get the one that's 395 00:20:52,285 --> 00:20:55,405 too human and freaks everyone out, and so we need to back it off a 396 00:20:55,547 --> 00:20:56,327 Rob: Exactly. 397 00:20:56,567 --> 00:20:58,547 There's an amazing moment where they had a conference. 398 00:20:58,547 --> 00:21:05,297 It was like Geordi, Riker and Picard, and they're talking about Data being a life 399 00:21:05,297 --> 00:21:08,057 form, and they're going, oh, we shouldn't talk to him in that particular way. 400 00:21:08,357 --> 00:21:11,762 And Picard goes, well, we talk about all life form in all 401 00:21:11,762 --> 00:21:14,372 different particular types of ways, so let's open it up that way. 402 00:21:14,402 --> 00:21:21,182 And then there's a cutaway to Riker getting so excited by Picard's captaining. 403 00:21:21,242 --> 00:21:23,102 He's there going, yes, great. 404 00:21:23,102 --> 00:21:25,712 I'm going, what is happening 405 00:21:25,855 --> 00:21:26,215 Kevin: Yeah. 406 00:21:26,215 --> 00:21:28,135 Season one TNG was uneven. 407 00:21:28,135 --> 00:21:33,325 They were, they were like, um, yeah, the emotions were a little random at times. 408 00:21:33,407 --> 00:21:36,197 Rob: like Wesley is standing up and going, you need to listen to me. 409 00:21:36,197 --> 00:21:37,157 And they go, Shut up Wesley. 410 00:21:37,157 --> 00:21:39,737 He goes and he stands up and starts talking again, and then 411 00:21:39,737 --> 00:21:41,207 his mom says, shut up Wesley. 412 00:21:41,267 --> 00:21:44,597 And then he keeps on talking and then he goes, oh, excuse myself out. 413 00:21:45,137 --> 00:21:45,617 And then he, 414 00:21:45,910 --> 00:21:47,830 Kevin: They were still finding the tone, Rob. 415 00:21:48,227 --> 00:21:51,977 Rob: finding that tone and then like, and then it's ended within the, like 416 00:21:52,037 --> 00:21:56,837 the crystalline creature comes around and Lore is pretending to be Data, 417 00:21:57,347 --> 00:22:01,487 and, and then, right, and he doesn't understand when Picard says, make 418 00:22:01,487 --> 00:22:03,497 it so, but he doesn't pick it up 419 00:22:04,265 --> 00:22:04,555 Kevin: Yeah, 420 00:22:04,637 --> 00:22:06,467 Rob: And then he is teleported off the ship. 421 00:22:06,737 --> 00:22:08,237 No, he just teleported away. 422 00:22:08,237 --> 00:22:12,497 But they, they don't say where, they don't say, is he just gone 423 00:22:12,497 --> 00:22:14,537 into the internal buffer zone? 424 00:22:14,687 --> 00:22:14,927 Is 425 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:15,310 Kevin: Yeah. 426 00:22:15,310 --> 00:22:16,990 No, he's in, he's inside the crystal, 427 00:22:17,302 --> 00:22:20,987 Rob: He is inside the crystal that just goes away for some reason. 428 00:22:20,987 --> 00:22:23,687 They have a o offhand thing of going, oh, well, because that's 429 00:22:23,687 --> 00:22:25,247 happened, it, it goes away, now. 430 00:22:25,247 --> 00:22:26,117 I'm going, what? 431 00:22:26,117 --> 00:22:26,687 Because what? 432 00:22:26,717 --> 00:22:27,917 In the what with the who, what? 433 00:22:27,977 --> 00:22:28,217 Yeah. 434 00:22:28,307 --> 00:22:29,807 Anyway, so yes. 435 00:22:29,927 --> 00:22:33,527 The crystalline creature does not play a massive part in this episode. 436 00:22:33,527 --> 00:22:38,397 It's more the introduction of Lore, and as you've said, the lore behind 437 00:22:38,397 --> 00:22:40,667 Lore, and especially Data's creation. 438 00:22:41,845 --> 00:22:43,735 Kevin: So the crystalline entity does come back. 439 00:22:43,765 --> 00:22:49,255 Rob: Yes, in season five, episode four, uh, Silicon Avatar, that is the return. 440 00:22:49,585 --> 00:22:51,955 Kevin: And we get to meet Data's mother, 441 00:22:51,955 --> 00:22:57,743 Rob: Um, we, we get to meet a mother, and because, th they explained the 442 00:22:57,743 --> 00:23:01,793 Lore again that Data has absorbed all the information of the colonists, 443 00:23:01,853 --> 00:23:04,223 their diaries, their video messages. 444 00:23:04,493 --> 00:23:08,723 He has pretty much composited an entire history of thousands 445 00:23:08,723 --> 00:23:10,163 of people into his brain. 446 00:23:10,553 --> 00:23:14,993 And, and the doctor's son was killed by the crystalline creature. 447 00:23:14,993 --> 00:23:17,063 So she has come with an ulterior motive. 448 00:23:17,093 --> 00:23:21,353 She's solely there for revenge because her son, uh, was killed 449 00:23:21,353 --> 00:23:26,163 by the crystalline creature on the colony, and she blames obviously Lore 450 00:23:26,183 --> 00:23:29,238 as well, and by extension Data and. 451 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,965 Kevin: Yeah, she gets some nice crazy acting towards the end of the 452 00:23:31,973 --> 00:23:36,503 Rob: crazy acting and data does the whole, they have moments where they communicate. 453 00:23:36,503 --> 00:23:42,413 So he uses the journal entries of her son and they have a bit of a conversation 454 00:23:42,413 --> 00:23:47,993 and he puts on his, his son, you know, her son's voice through Data. 455 00:23:48,423 --> 00:23:51,593 Um, and he thinks that he's turned a corner with her. 456 00:23:51,593 --> 00:23:55,523 Then at the end they use it, 'cause Picard's all about we need to 457 00:23:55,523 --> 00:23:56,633 communicate with this creature. 458 00:23:56,633 --> 00:23:59,843 We, I want to see if there is some way of an establishing a 459 00:23:59,843 --> 00:24:03,383 connection with this creature as opposed to just blindly killing it. 460 00:24:03,383 --> 00:24:04,283 Like the doctor said 461 00:24:04,365 --> 00:24:05,145 Kevin: Right, right, right. 462 00:24:05,145 --> 00:24:06,105 It's coming back to me now. 463 00:24:06,285 --> 00:24:09,165 She, so she's not even from the same colony where, where 464 00:24:09,165 --> 00:24:10,353 Data and Lore were made, 465 00:24:10,353 --> 00:24:13,453 Rob: She was there, she was Her, her son was based there. 466 00:24:13,453 --> 00:24:17,953 Hence, he could, uh, Data could use all his memories and but she was 467 00:24:17,953 --> 00:24:22,753 working as an archeologist or something studying this creature, or, and off 468 00:24:22,843 --> 00:24:26,323 doing, she started studying it after it destroyed the planet, obviously. 469 00:24:27,313 --> 00:24:28,153 Um, but she, 470 00:24:28,355 --> 00:24:29,135 Kevin: It is revealed. 471 00:24:29,135 --> 00:24:30,210 She's seeking revenge. 472 00:24:30,463 --> 00:24:35,533 Rob: And she was feeling guilty that she had left her son on this planet while she 473 00:24:35,533 --> 00:24:38,488 was off doing her, her archeology work. 474 00:24:38,698 --> 00:24:43,828 And the son in his journals never, you know, Data says there was no animosity. 475 00:24:43,828 --> 00:24:48,838 He never felt any, he was just so proud of her, proud of you for being away. 476 00:24:48,928 --> 00:24:51,478 And then right, right at the end, spoiler. 477 00:24:51,928 --> 00:24:54,538 They find this way of communicating and it starts happening. 478 00:24:54,538 --> 00:24:57,058 They're using a gamma pulses or something like that. 479 00:24:57,058 --> 00:25:00,268 It's working and, and Picard's going, they're communicating, they're 480 00:25:00,298 --> 00:25:05,548 understanding, and she goes and turns it up full and they vibrates itself. 481 00:25:05,638 --> 00:25:06,778 And it explodes. 482 00:25:06,802 --> 00:25:08,692 Kevin: She murders the crystalline entity. 483 00:25:08,902 --> 00:25:10,312 I did it for you. 484 00:25:10,364 --> 00:25:11,924 Rob: goes, he, you would've been proud, right? 485 00:25:11,924 --> 00:25:12,969 You would've been proud and. 486 00:25:13,672 --> 00:25:15,112 Kevin: The cold line he 487 00:25:15,149 --> 00:25:19,139 Rob: Beautiful, like I have gone through every single entry and I can 488 00:25:19,139 --> 00:25:21,179 see no evidence that he would be proud. 489 00:25:21,179 --> 00:25:22,529 He would be disappointed. 490 00:25:22,529 --> 00:25:22,859 He would 491 00:25:22,972 --> 00:25:23,212 Kevin: Oh, 492 00:25:24,239 --> 00:25:29,999 Rob: and a great ending for, an awkwardly paced episode, much like, much like 493 00:25:29,999 --> 00:25:31,799 Datalore, it jumps all over the shop. 494 00:25:31,829 --> 00:25:37,739 Like the pre the, the, the cold opener like Rikers flirting with like 495 00:25:38,182 --> 00:25:38,392 Kevin: Yeah. 496 00:25:38,392 --> 00:25:39,862 It goes real slow and then goes real 497 00:25:39,944 --> 00:25:43,544 Rob: Like, yeah, like in a moment they are, you know, light, light flirting, 498 00:25:43,544 --> 00:25:45,884 and he's going, well, I've got some wine, he goes, well, I've got a cabin. 499 00:25:45,884 --> 00:25:49,244 Well, you know, he's literally going, well, I've got a member and you 500 00:25:49,244 --> 00:25:51,644 are on it, type of, I'm going this. 501 00:25:51,644 --> 00:25:56,834 And then she's wiped out within a second and then that's skipped over. 502 00:25:56,834 --> 00:26:00,014 'cause then the doctor comes in, the new character seeking revenge. 503 00:26:00,194 --> 00:26:02,924 There's a little moment where Picard's talking with Riker and Riker 504 00:26:02,924 --> 00:26:04,904 goes, I've watched my friends die. 505 00:26:04,904 --> 00:26:07,814 She died there and this thing doesn't see reason. 506 00:26:08,279 --> 00:26:13,409 Then that's kind of left 'cause it all focuses on the, so it's awkwardly paced 507 00:26:13,409 --> 00:26:17,909 and the script doesn't really, it isn't as cohesive as it could be, but it's 508 00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:21,389 much better because it's season five, so they know a lot more what they're doing. 509 00:26:21,389 --> 00:26:24,809 And Data's final cold line of truth to the doctors. 510 00:26:25,169 --> 00:26:26,789 Really freaking powerful. 511 00:26:27,232 --> 00:26:27,682 Kevin: Yeah. 512 00:26:28,035 --> 00:26:31,545 If You find a button for an episode that is that strong, like it almost doesn't 513 00:26:31,545 --> 00:26:32,985 matter what happened in the episode. 514 00:26:33,083 --> 00:26:34,163 Rob: It kind doesn't. 515 00:26:34,163 --> 00:26:39,083 'cause I was watching that final scene and Spiner is just a absolute gun 516 00:26:39,383 --> 00:26:41,873 and everything I go, I almost went. 517 00:26:41,903 --> 00:26:42,113 Okay. 518 00:26:42,113 --> 00:26:42,803 All is forgiven. 519 00:26:43,470 --> 00:26:44,260 Kevin: All right, Spiner. 520 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,210 It's been a rough week. 521 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,550 It's time for you to bring it home, 522 00:26:47,963 --> 00:26:48,603 Rob: Come on, Spiner. 523 00:26:48,623 --> 00:26:49,043 Bring out, 524 00:26:49,050 --> 00:26:50,250 Kevin: Save the episode. 525 00:26:50,393 --> 00:26:51,083 Rob: out the gold. 526 00:26:51,203 --> 00:26:51,533 Okay. 527 00:26:51,533 --> 00:26:54,143 This this is where we, this is where he wraps it all up. 528 00:26:54,143 --> 00:26:54,698 Wrap it all up. 529 00:26:54,780 --> 00:26:55,230 Kevin: Yeah. 530 00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:56,040 Yeah. 531 00:26:56,610 --> 00:26:59,880 Um, since we are here to talk about these giant space creatures, let's 532 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,360 like pull the crystalline entity out of these two episodes and look at 533 00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:05,910 uh, as a, as a thing in isolation. 534 00:27:05,910 --> 00:27:09,030 What are your thoughts on that, that entity, that creature? 535 00:27:09,030 --> 00:27:14,310 What, what, uh, how did it compare to this week's Jikaru, for example? 536 00:27:14,828 --> 00:27:17,888 Rob: There's, it's with a crystalline entity and it looks like sort 537 00:27:17,888 --> 00:27:21,368 of like a three dimensional snowflake, like a global snowflake. 538 00:27:21,548 --> 00:27:21,698 There's 539 00:27:21,825 --> 00:27:24,255 Kevin: It feels like a sample model from a 3D animation 540 00:27:24,518 --> 00:27:25,988 Rob: Very much so. 541 00:27:26,048 --> 00:27:26,828 Very much so. 542 00:27:26,888 --> 00:27:33,488 And I was like, the life form that we saw in this week's episode, um, had a 543 00:27:33,488 --> 00:27:38,948 bit more personality, a bit more, you know, it was dynamic in the way it looked 544 00:27:39,045 --> 00:27:41,835 Kevin: so product of the time, it's, it's obvious, like it's an example 545 00:27:41,835 --> 00:27:46,935 of very early CG and it's a product of the limitations of the technology. 546 00:27:47,138 --> 00:27:50,528 Rob: like Farpoint where it's got sort of like weird space jellyfish. 547 00:27:50,888 --> 00:27:51,578 Um. 548 00:27:52,208 --> 00:27:52,628 This one 549 00:27:52,785 --> 00:27:55,875 Kevin: just between those two episodes you could kind of see the technology 550 00:27:55,875 --> 00:28:00,405 mature and like the, the way the tree like vibrated in response to 551 00:28:00,405 --> 00:28:03,495 the signal in the second episode, it was like, I don't think they could do 552 00:28:03,495 --> 00:28:05,355 that back when the first episode was 553 00:28:05,678 --> 00:28:05,858 Rob: Yeah. 554 00:28:05,858 --> 00:28:07,208 That's why it's all done after. 555 00:28:07,418 --> 00:28:09,488 Um, where they arrive and it's already dead. 556 00:28:09,878 --> 00:28:12,383 Um, but we find out a little bit more in the second episode about. 557 00:28:13,058 --> 00:28:16,808 It's like absorbing a certain type of electromatic energy. 558 00:28:16,988 --> 00:28:20,768 That's what it feeds off and that's the only way it can exist. 559 00:28:21,188 --> 00:28:26,018 Obviously Lore could communicate with it and speak in English and 560 00:28:26,018 --> 00:28:28,958 it understood, in a rougher sense. 561 00:28:29,168 --> 00:28:32,978 Um, but there's a bit more sense of building up how can we communicate 562 00:28:32,978 --> 00:28:37,868 through this musicality or rhythm type stuff, which they were developing 563 00:28:38,198 --> 00:28:40,358 in series, the series five episodes. 564 00:28:40,388 --> 00:28:43,108 So there's little bits there, but not much. 565 00:28:43,108 --> 00:28:47,918 I think they, they did as much as they could with, um, the limitmess. 566 00:28:47,938 --> 00:28:50,248 It was quite limited, this type of creature. 567 00:28:50,845 --> 00:28:53,485 Kevin: I feel like often, often the purpose of these creatures 568 00:28:54,505 --> 00:28:58,885 in Star Trek is to invite us to empathize with a very alien creature. 569 00:28:59,305 --> 00:29:04,680 And that this thing that seems… It's pure crystal, like it seems like a 570 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,160 chemical, not a, not a being at first. 571 00:29:08,550 --> 00:29:11,430 By the end of it, if they've done their job, we feel sorry 572 00:29:11,430 --> 00:29:12,900 for it when it gets destroyed. 573 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:14,910 And do you think they achieve that here? 574 00:29:14,918 --> 00:29:15,728 Rob: I think so. 575 00:29:15,848 --> 00:29:16,508 I think so. 576 00:29:16,688 --> 00:29:21,278 Uh, for, and for something that doesn't have anything that, that's appealing. 577 00:29:21,488 --> 00:29:26,828 Even in Star Trek IV, you know, you start to get a sense of the probe. 578 00:29:26,828 --> 00:29:32,333 The probe is just a, you know, a, a cylinder in space with a little glow orb 579 00:29:32,483 --> 00:29:38,798 dropped out the front of it, but you get a sense of why it communicates what it is. 580 00:29:39,068 --> 00:29:40,868 It's a mystery where it comes from. 581 00:29:41,318 --> 00:29:46,688 But with this crystalline form, you see the starting point, that point of 582 00:29:46,688 --> 00:29:48,728 going, oh, we could learn so much more. 583 00:29:48,878 --> 00:29:52,798 There's potential of it expanding into this wider, you know, 584 00:29:52,888 --> 00:29:55,388 species, but then it's taken away. 585 00:29:55,448 --> 00:30:00,068 And I, yeah, I do like that fact with something so large and alien looking, 586 00:30:00,608 --> 00:30:06,338 what we perceive it as with our limited humanity and moral compass is just, 587 00:30:06,848 --> 00:30:09,008 it's doing it all 'cause it's evil. 588 00:30:09,308 --> 00:30:12,038 But then you find that you step back and you look at it 589 00:30:12,038 --> 00:30:13,358 from a different perspective. 590 00:30:13,358 --> 00:30:18,128 In the case of why this is the way it feeds, this is the way, you 591 00:30:18,128 --> 00:30:20,378 know, how its world is perceived. 592 00:30:20,378 --> 00:30:25,148 That type of stuff is, is great sci-fi and very beautifully done in Star Trek. 593 00:30:25,298 --> 00:30:28,868 Um, which is great to, to show off. 594 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:29,910 Kevin: Yeah. 595 00:30:30,938 --> 00:30:31,568 Rob: What about you? 596 00:30:31,568 --> 00:30:33,333 Which episode did you focus on? 597 00:30:33,940 --> 00:30:37,150 Kevin: I'm gonna take us to an, an episode between those two, 598 00:30:37,150 --> 00:30:39,860 season three, episode 20, Tin Man. 599 00:30:40,030 --> 00:30:46,360 And on rewatching this, it's striking how much this is in many ways, that 600 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,920 episode that we only got glimpses of this week on Strange New Worlds. 601 00:30:51,490 --> 00:30:58,010 It is an episode in which Starfleet becomes aware of a mysterious 602 00:30:58,010 --> 00:31:02,060 space fairing creature, and there's no war to get in the 603 00:31:02,060 --> 00:31:04,270 middle of, but there are Romulans. 604 00:31:04,970 --> 00:31:11,750 And Starfleet sends the Enterprise in order to to investigate this creature 605 00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:14,190 that is hanging around a dying star. 606 00:31:15,250 --> 00:31:19,330 The Romulans are sending a couple of cloaked ships at the same time, so there 607 00:31:19,330 --> 00:31:25,530 is going to be a race, um, and instead of sending an incompetent documentarian 608 00:31:25,530 --> 00:31:30,290 on the ship, Starfleet this time sends a mission specialist, named Tam Elbrun, 609 00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:32,740 who is a Betazoid, a full Betazoid. 610 00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:38,790 Tam Elbrun is a super Betazoid, like he has overdeveloped, uh, uh, psionic 611 00:31:38,810 --> 00:31:45,140 powers or, or, uh, at least, um, em empathic powers, and that's why he is on 612 00:31:45,140 --> 00:31:49,430 this mission is that he stands, of, of all the people, Starfleet can draw and 613 00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:52,880 he stands the best chance of being able to communicate with this, this thing. 614 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:53,840 So that's the mission. 615 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,230 Go, explore, communicate. 616 00:31:57,230 --> 00:32:00,560 It's a really pure Starfleet mission. 617 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:05,570 And, uh, all of the drama at first is really around this mission specialist. 618 00:32:05,630 --> 00:32:10,130 He's, because he is, he is so sensitive, he finds it very 619 00:32:10,130 --> 00:32:12,170 uncomfortable to be on a Starship. 620 00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:17,000 He's gotten in trouble before when he is like, ability to process the 621 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,120 thoughts and emotions of the people around him, get the better of him. 622 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:26,450 And he has caused, uh, uh, uh, one or two disasters in the past on 623 00:32:26,450 --> 00:32:28,250 missions that he has been involved in. 624 00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:32,780 So the Enterprise crew is not particularly happy to have him around. 625 00:32:33,410 --> 00:32:36,650 And, uh, Deanna is somewhat invested in him because she has 626 00:32:36,650 --> 00:32:38,870 treated him as a patient before. 627 00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:41,690 And so all of that stuff is like the early drama. 628 00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:45,705 And then when they finally get to the place, the Romulans show up 629 00:32:45,765 --> 00:32:50,825 and the late drama is about space, space battles with the Romulans. 630 00:32:50,825 --> 00:32:53,415 The Romulans try to disable the Enterprise to get there first. 631 00:32:54,062 --> 00:32:59,942 Tam Elbrun warns Tin Man, and it does a spin and, and destroys the Romulan ship 632 00:32:59,942 --> 00:33:02,912 with the stroke of, uh, an energy beam. 633 00:33:02,912 --> 00:33:06,572 And, uh, yeah, all of this stuff is really fun too. 634 00:33:06,672 --> 00:33:14,757 And so in the end it, it is, yeah, just about discovering this very alien being, 635 00:33:15,087 --> 00:33:20,577 which Tam Elbrun does make contact with, discovers it was a living ship 636 00:33:20,877 --> 00:33:26,247 whose crew was destroyed in an accident, and that ship has now taken itself to 637 00:33:26,247 --> 00:33:29,427 this dying star in order to uh, die. 638 00:33:29,427 --> 00:33:33,567 It wants the sun to go supernova and for it to be consumed because 639 00:33:33,687 --> 00:33:35,637 it cannot live without its crew. 640 00:33:35,837 --> 00:33:41,477 But we have Tam Elbrun, the misfit who fits nowhere because he is too sensitive. 641 00:33:41,537 --> 00:33:46,787 And we have the machine, the ship that has no crew and feels incomplete. 642 00:33:47,057 --> 00:33:49,157 And the two of them fit together like a glove. 643 00:33:49,157 --> 00:33:53,207 They, uh, Tam Elbrun goes aboard the ship and uh, they fly 644 00:33:53,207 --> 00:33:54,647 off into the sunset together. 645 00:33:55,099 --> 00:33:57,679 Rob: Look, that sounds good, but it just needs a film crew. 646 00:33:57,949 --> 00:34:04,609 Um, and really low angle shots close up of our regular cast that would've 647 00:34:04,609 --> 00:34:06,319 really made it something special. 648 00:34:06,679 --> 00:34:07,939 Now, missed opportunity, Kev. 649 00:34:08,742 --> 00:34:11,472 Kevin: The, uh, the actual creature. 650 00:34:11,472 --> 00:34:13,332 I don't know if you've seen this episode. 651 00:34:13,332 --> 00:34:16,812 Here's the link to, uh, the, uh, a photo of it. 652 00:34:17,082 --> 00:34:23,862 It's a really cool, sort of, um, pod shaped thing that it, it has 653 00:34:23,862 --> 00:34:29,037 the feel of like, if you can imagine an onion that, that has layers, but 654 00:34:29,037 --> 00:34:30,627 the layers are made out of wood. 655 00:34:31,017 --> 00:34:36,297 And in between those layers there is like golden light seeping out between them. 656 00:34:36,327 --> 00:34:40,917 And it is just amazing, an amazing piece of production design or visual 657 00:34:40,917 --> 00:34:45,417 design, I think, this, this thing that at first we don't know what to make of 658 00:34:45,417 --> 00:34:47,367 it, but we're pretty sure it's living. 659 00:34:47,367 --> 00:34:52,167 And then by the end we realize it is a, a vessel, a vessel for people to travel in. 660 00:34:52,737 --> 00:34:53,487 I really loved 661 00:34:53,629 --> 00:34:56,749 Rob: See if you now, uh, you seem to really enjoy it, but you 662 00:34:56,749 --> 00:34:58,309 know, it's, is a space onion. 663 00:34:58,309 --> 00:34:59,949 I would've preferred a space parfait. 664 00:35:02,399 --> 00:35:06,229 thought I'd do a Shrek reference there for everybody, uh, listening at home. 665 00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:07,009 Shrek. 666 00:35:07,609 --> 00:35:10,429 Sorry, shout out to, uh, Eddie Murphy as the donkey. 667 00:35:10,729 --> 00:35:12,409 Uh, anyway, yes, thank you for the photo. 668 00:35:12,619 --> 00:35:13,669 It looks very cool. 669 00:35:13,669 --> 00:35:17,749 And that sounds like a, uh, a great episode of, you know, that's what 670 00:35:17,749 --> 00:35:20,869 we love, you know, a big entity that we don't fully understand. 671 00:35:20,869 --> 00:35:23,779 We've got an antagonistic species on one side. 672 00:35:23,779 --> 00:35:28,369 We've got, uh, a species that we know of, but an outsider within that. 673 00:35:28,684 --> 00:35:33,604 Um, I lo and I always love, um, organic ships. 674 00:35:33,694 --> 00:35:37,144 There's a great, uh, it's not, it's not a great Doctor Who, it's a horrible doctor 675 00:35:37,144 --> 00:35:41,464 who story, but it's a great concept, uh, called Claws of Axos, uh, with my 676 00:35:41,464 --> 00:35:46,024 favorite Doctor, Jon Pertwee, where they, at one moment they go, this ship was not 677 00:35:46,024 --> 00:35:48,204 built but grown, and everyone goes Grown? 678 00:35:48,514 --> 00:35:52,574 And there's also illusions later on in the modern series that the TARDIS is actually 679 00:35:52,844 --> 00:36:00,349 a grown being as opposed to a, um, you know, constructed, um, uh, uh, device. 680 00:36:00,590 --> 00:36:03,570 Kevin: For me, living Starships is something I, I saw for the first 681 00:36:03,570 --> 00:36:08,340 time in Babylon 5, I think as as a real big deal and, and, uh, yeah, 682 00:36:08,370 --> 00:36:09,660 very impressive there as well. 683 00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:15,930 Some, some more early CG for you if you want, uh, Babylon 5 for sure. 684 00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:20,790 Um, but yeah, uh, loved Gomtuu, is the its name that it calls 685 00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:22,500 itself by the end of the episode. 686 00:36:22,650 --> 00:36:23,100 Really good. 687 00:36:23,153 --> 00:36:25,403 Rob: And it communicates through a 688 00:36:25,695 --> 00:36:27,405 Kevin: It communicates telepathically. 689 00:36:27,773 --> 00:36:29,513 Rob: Do we hear its voice or 690 00:36:29,639 --> 00:36:32,909 Kevin: We only hear it interpreted through Tam Elbrum. 691 00:36:33,456 --> 00:36:34,506 Rob: That's very, very cool. 692 00:36:34,566 --> 00:36:35,046 That's a great 693 00:36:35,099 --> 00:36:36,539 Kevin: Yeah, it's, it's lovely. 694 00:36:36,539 --> 00:36:39,449 And, and yeah, by the end of like, we feel it's loneliness. 695 00:36:39,449 --> 00:36:42,599 We feel happy that it, that they find each other. 696 00:36:42,599 --> 00:36:47,879 So yeah, I think it does succeed in having us empathize with this extremely 697 00:36:47,879 --> 00:36:52,169 alien thing by the end of the episode, in some respects, this concept is a 698 00:36:52,169 --> 00:36:59,689 do-over of those, uh, those jellyfish things in Encounter at Farpoint because 699 00:37:00,229 --> 00:37:03,859 the crew does walk around in the hallways of that thing that turns out 700 00:37:03,859 --> 00:37:05,989 to be a space jellyfish by the end. 701 00:37:05,989 --> 00:37:11,989 And it's never quite explained or revealed or explored, but it is at least implied by 702 00:37:11,989 --> 00:37:17,764 the production design that these creatures are formed in a way that creates a habitat 703 00:37:17,764 --> 00:37:20,494 for something or someone within it. 704 00:37:20,944 --> 00:37:25,144 Uh, so to come back to that here, and I think more successfully, much 705 00:37:25,144 --> 00:37:31,354 more interestingly, more emotionally impactful, uh, Tin Man is a, is a 706 00:37:31,354 --> 00:37:33,544 really nice revisiting of that concept. 707 00:37:33,566 --> 00:37:37,436 Rob: And especially like having to do it on a episode by episode 708 00:37:37,436 --> 00:37:40,766 budget as opposed to Farpoint, which of course had a lot more money. 709 00:37:40,766 --> 00:37:45,776 They had the all the big bucks put behind that pilot really set it apart. 710 00:37:46,424 --> 00:37:49,334 Kevin: Just comparing the production design of the sets of the interiors, 711 00:37:49,334 --> 00:37:54,344 like Farpoint is they're, they're like rounded triangles, the hallways, and 712 00:37:54,344 --> 00:37:59,024 they have panels on the walls that before you know, it's a creature, they look 713 00:37:59,024 --> 00:38:00,704 like they have circuitry within them. 714 00:38:00,704 --> 00:38:04,844 But when, when the creature comes to life, you can read those same, 715 00:38:05,174 --> 00:38:08,144 uh, textures as like anatomy. 716 00:38:08,594 --> 00:38:10,754 Uh, but it is still very flat. 717 00:38:10,814 --> 00:38:14,294 Uh, uh, you can, you can imagine the wooden beams behind the walls, whereas 718 00:38:14,444 --> 00:38:18,914 the interiors of Tin Man done for one little episode of TNG and not a very 719 00:38:18,914 --> 00:38:22,964 special one, I agree with you, are so much more beautifully realized. 720 00:38:22,964 --> 00:38:26,114 It feels like you're walking around inside of blood vessels. 721 00:38:26,294 --> 00:38:27,704 The floor is not flat. 722 00:38:27,734 --> 00:38:28,964 They're going up and down. 723 00:38:29,264 --> 00:38:35,534 The doors are like these apertures that like are, are, um, you know, the, the 724 00:38:35,714 --> 00:38:38,844 sphincters in our, in our internal organs. 725 00:38:39,504 --> 00:38:40,884 Works beautifully, yeah. 726 00:38:41,364 --> 00:38:46,854 Uh, so big shout out to the, the crew that put together the, that set for those 727 00:38:46,854 --> 00:38:51,654 couple of scenes with Tam Elbrun and Data who beamed over with him to make 728 00:38:51,654 --> 00:38:53,904 sure he didn't do anything too crazy. 729 00:38:54,204 --> 00:39:00,054 Um, Tam Elbrun as the Betazoid who hates hearing everyone's innermost thoughts, 730 00:39:00,054 --> 00:39:02,304 loves Data because he's completely silent. 731 00:39:02,664 --> 00:39:04,734 It's they're best friends immediately. 732 00:39:04,794 --> 00:39:06,594 And that little dynamic is really fun. 733 00:39:06,924 --> 00:39:11,784 At the end when data returns to the Enterprise, he, his parting thought in 734 00:39:11,784 --> 00:39:16,644 the episode, since we're talking about like, uh, powerful final lines from 735 00:39:16,644 --> 00:39:22,254 Brent Spiner, uh, he, he says, um, when Tin Man returned me to the Enterprise, 736 00:39:22,254 --> 00:39:25,074 I realized this is where I belong. 737 00:39:25,401 --> 00:39:30,448 Rob: And of course, Tam is played by the brilliant Harry Groener, a wonderful 738 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,250 Kevin: have said, yeah, big time, uh, character actor in 739 00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:36,470 the, uh, in the genre space. 740 00:39:36,578 --> 00:39:41,833 Rob: Um, his, uh, one of his most defining roles is, uh, mayor Richard 741 00:39:41,833 --> 00:39:46,453 Wilkins in season three, the best season of, uh, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. 742 00:39:46,453 --> 00:39:49,153 He is absolutely incredible as the, um, 743 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,770 Kevin: Evil mayor, evil mayor. 744 00:39:52,093 --> 00:39:55,753 Rob: mayor, but he plays it, his, uh, gee Willers 1950s style, 745 00:39:55,963 --> 00:39:58,183 um, you know, sweet apple pie 746 00:39:58,310 --> 00:40:00,650 Kevin: I just want the best for everyone. 747 00:40:00,740 --> 00:40:02,750 Oh, you're so right, evil mayor. 748 00:40:02,758 --> 00:40:05,938 Rob: gonna turn into a big giant monster and eat all your friends and say it. 749 00:40:06,808 --> 00:40:08,218 Um, he's an incredible actor. 750 00:40:08,308 --> 00:40:13,378 Um, and yes, I'll, uh, definitely wanna chase that down just because he is in it. 751 00:40:13,708 --> 00:40:14,068 Um, 752 00:40:14,908 --> 00:40:19,468 I wanna do a shout out very quickly from episode from, uh, the episode 753 00:40:19,468 --> 00:40:23,878 Datalore, the music in it is really awesome done by Ron Jones. 754 00:40:24,208 --> 00:40:28,333 The music is almost cinematic in way. 755 00:40:28,363 --> 00:40:34,073 'cause especially in later on it becomes quite generic television almost synthy. 756 00:40:34,655 --> 00:40:38,825 Kevin: Yeah, TNG spent a lot of money on its orchestrated music, 757 00:40:38,825 --> 00:40:40,235 especially early in its run. 758 00:40:40,235 --> 00:40:44,165 It was, it seemed to be, part of the concept of the show is that we were gonna, 759 00:40:44,375 --> 00:40:47,795 we were gonna assemble the orchestra for every single episode, and we're gonna 760 00:40:47,795 --> 00:40:51,395 write original music for every single episode, which was a huge departure 761 00:40:51,395 --> 00:40:54,555 from the original series that reused the same stings over and over again. 762 00:40:54,555 --> 00:40:59,205 Unless it was a very special episode that that called for a new motif. 763 00:40:59,279 --> 00:41:03,539 Rob: Yes, and it, it definitely stood out for me as the episode was playing out. 764 00:41:03,539 --> 00:41:06,929 I'm going like, especially when they're exploring the undercover 765 00:41:06,959 --> 00:41:09,869 laboratory and they're walking in there for the first time. 766 00:41:09,869 --> 00:41:14,879 There's this music playing and I'm going, this is like, high level, 767 00:41:14,879 --> 00:41:20,039 it really elevated things up, um, which, which surprising to me. 768 00:41:20,039 --> 00:41:23,609 I was used to Star Trek music being at a, a television wise, 769 00:41:23,609 --> 00:41:28,079 being at a certain level, but it, it el it elevated everything. 770 00:41:28,079 --> 00:41:31,169 So Ron Jones work there was outstanding. 771 00:42:27,059 --> 00:42:27,539 Kevin: Nice one. 772 00:42:27,689 --> 00:42:28,229 Oh yeah. 773 00:42:28,229 --> 00:42:28,709 Real good. 774 00:42:29,459 --> 00:42:34,319 Um, worth acknowledging the immunity syndrome from the original series 775 00:42:34,319 --> 00:42:35,639 that we've talked about before. 776 00:42:35,639 --> 00:42:39,659 The one where the, uh, the Enterprise goes into the giant space, amoeba and 777 00:42:39,959 --> 00:42:45,389 Spock has to plant, um, charges near the nucleus in order to explode at all 778 00:42:45,389 --> 00:42:47,609 before everyone dies of depression. 779 00:42:47,909 --> 00:42:51,209 Um, that's a good one as well for giant space creatures. 780 00:42:51,412 --> 00:42:53,242 Rob: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. 781 00:42:53,242 --> 00:42:58,642 And um, uh, was it last week's episode or where was We were? 782 00:42:58,732 --> 00:42:59,392 Um, yes. 783 00:42:59,932 --> 00:43:04,522 We were confused a little bit about the history of the Rogate and um, 784 00:43:04,582 --> 00:43:08,002 and there was a traumatic incident and I think that was with a space 785 00:43:08,002 --> 00:43:10,132 entity creature as well, like, 786 00:43:10,439 --> 00:43:14,819 Kevin: that was the gaseous creature that comes in through the vents and kills 787 00:43:14,819 --> 00:43:16,829 everyone by exploding their red blood 788 00:43:16,829 --> 00:43:17,369 cells. 789 00:43:17,369 --> 00:43:17,789 Yeah. 790 00:43:18,359 --> 00:43:18,629 Yeah. 791 00:43:18,629 --> 00:43:23,969 So what you were remembering was the TOS episode obsession in which we 792 00:43:23,969 --> 00:43:26,279 learned that Kirk, while he was, uh. 793 00:43:26,809 --> 00:43:31,039 Working as a Phaser crew member aboard the Fargate Lieutenant Kirk. 794 00:43:31,039 --> 00:43:35,389 So this is before this episode of Strange New Worlds significantly, 795 00:43:35,419 --> 00:43:36,979 like four years think. 796 00:43:37,579 --> 00:43:40,999 Um, yeah, they, they were attacked by this gas cloud and, and more than 797 00:43:40,999 --> 00:43:45,679 half the crew, uh, died and Kirk blames him himself for hesitating 798 00:43:45,889 --> 00:43:48,259 given the order to fire Phasers. 799 00:43:48,589 --> 00:43:55,179 Um, and he, in that TOS episode, he, they, the Enterprise basically faces 800 00:43:55,179 --> 00:43:57,099 off against the same creature again. 801 00:43:57,099 --> 00:44:01,059 And Kirk is like, this time, this time, I'm not gonna hesitate, 802 00:44:01,059 --> 00:44:02,949 I'm gonna make the difference. 803 00:44:03,279 --> 00:44:06,639 And what he learned is that it wasn't his fault at all. 804 00:44:06,999 --> 00:44:11,499 But that is interesting to know about or to be reminded of because the 805 00:44:11,499 --> 00:44:17,499 Kirk we are now seeing in Strange New Worlds is like four years on from that 806 00:44:17,499 --> 00:44:19,779 disaster, still blaming himself for it. 807 00:44:19,862 --> 00:44:21,232 Rob: Definitely, definitely. 808 00:44:21,412 --> 00:44:23,422 And involving a space entity as well. 809 00:44:23,422 --> 00:44:26,977 So we here at Subspace Radio love blending everything together. 810 00:44:29,174 --> 00:44:29,864 Kevin: Very good. 811 00:44:29,914 --> 00:44:34,894 I feel like we got a better episode out of this than Strange 812 00:44:34,894 --> 00:44:36,544 New Worlds did this week. 813 00:44:36,852 --> 00:44:40,032 Rob: So in many ways we are always the winner when it 814 00:44:40,872 --> 00:44:41,322 Yeah. 815 00:44:41,652 --> 00:44:44,832 Um, and yes, and we are onto no doubt a 816 00:44:45,094 --> 00:44:46,114 Kevin: Four and a Half Vulcans. 817 00:44:46,602 --> 00:44:48,282 Rob: We're gonna be quirky, we're gonna be silly. 818 00:44:48,282 --> 00:44:50,187 We're gonna be, um, we're gonna be funny. 819 00:44:50,703 --> 00:44:53,163 Kevin: Yeah, I, I am hopeful. 820 00:44:53,223 --> 00:44:56,193 Like when they set out to do comedy, when that is the brief, 821 00:44:56,343 --> 00:44:57,393 I feel like they can do it. 822 00:44:57,393 --> 00:45:02,043 And we've had just enough non-comedy episodes that I'm ready to go there again. 823 00:45:02,140 --> 00:45:02,470 Rob: True. 824 00:45:02,530 --> 00:45:03,580 It's time for that balance. 825 00:45:03,580 --> 00:45:07,240 And that leaves us the final two episodes to go all gung-ho 826 00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:09,160 in being serious and dark. 827 00:45:09,964 --> 00:45:11,311 But, uh, thank you for your time. 828 00:45:11,311 --> 00:45:12,901 Thank you for listening everybody. 829 00:45:13,081 --> 00:45:17,701 And, uh, let us know what you thought of, uh, the documentary 830 00:45:18,031 --> 00:45:21,271 that didn't really have anything other than just one adventure in it. 831 00:45:21,321 --> 00:45:22,101 What did you think? 832 00:45:22,365 --> 00:45:24,195 Kevin: Yeah, we had some pretty spicy takes this week. 833 00:45:24,195 --> 00:45:29,928 And if you do wanna reach out to us, we've got links to our Bluesky and our Mastodon 834 00:45:29,998 --> 00:45:32,728 accounts on our website at subspace.fm. 835 00:45:32,968 --> 00:45:36,448 You can reach out to us in either of those spots and we'll be, we'll 836 00:45:36,448 --> 00:45:38,578 be eager to, uh, compare notes with 837 00:45:38,751 --> 00:45:39,201 Rob: Yes. 838 00:45:39,201 --> 00:45:41,511 Come and reach out here in the subspace. 839 00:45:41,657 --> 00:45:42,107 Kevin: All right. 840 00:45:42,107 --> 00:45:44,493 Until next week, Rob, see you around the galaxy.