Trey: hello.
And welcome back to another episode of MCU.
Need to know a podcast dedicated to the Marvel cinematic universe
and everything you need to know.
I'm Trey,
Jude: Jude, how are you doing
Trey: Trey?
I'm doing fantastic because I'm a few days away from Dr.
Strange in the multi-verse of madness.
And I'm pumped, man.
Jude: Yeah, I am.
I have no idea.
This is the first movie in a long time that I'm not that I don't
know when I'm gonna get to see it.
Um, I think it's going to be within the first week, but yeah, I just haven't
been able to really secure a time.
I mean, I am pumped.
I am excited.
Trey: Um, I know it's going to be hard.
Because neither of us has seen it.
So none of this can be spoilers, but this feels like it's going to be one
of those event movies that w that seems to become the norm in the MCU now.
So until you see it, it's just, I'm going to be like very tight
lip to wanting to discuss it.
Jude: Well, I feel like I've seen spoilers without seeing spoilers.
Trey: Is it the, is it the spoilers without contacts that are never
as clever as they think they are?
Jude: No, actually, um, it's, it's like just scrolling through
like Facebook or Twitter cause you know, doing other things.
And then it's like a headline saying like, you know, the top, this of that movie.
And so the image doesn't give anything away, but the headline doesn't give
a specific away, but it's enough that it's like, okay, so I can expect.
You know, so it's not full on spoiler.
Cause it's kinda like from the trailer, I'm expecting like
all kinds of stuff, you know?
Um, and so, so I just, I'm like, that's not surprising.
Trey: It's the SEO equivalent of, I'm not touching you, that
all these you aggregates love.
Uh, Nick Sandy messaged me earlier this week.
He was like, dude, stay off YouTube.
I just had everything spoiled for me.
I was like, oh no, I'm so sorry.
And I got to speak to him and uh, I can confirm it.
And he was like, yeah, I, uh, I got it all spoiled.
Jude: Wow.
Oh, you know, which is it's again, it's weird.
Cause like, I, I think this is a fair statement where it's
like, even if I'm spoiled, that has so many different meanings.
When I, when I put that pause,
Trey: speaking of pauses, my favorite one you've done this season is whenever
we were speaking to leech and you go, well, you know, I'm the champion of
smaller than six episodes for Disney plus.
And you held that pause for so long that it made me so happy
Jude: so well, well, I do not want to be spoiled on, on the shows and the
content and things, even if I got.
You know, find out about a spoiler.
I feel like if it's good, I'm still going to be sucked in like, they, there, they
will cause I'm there to be sucked in.
And so they do, if they do a good job, it doesn't matter.
You know?
Um, and, and there's almost of a small bit of excitement
of like, okay, here it comes.
I've been waiting for it.
Here it is here, you know?
And so I don't think it takes away one, 100%.
It's just.
It's a different experience cause it's that it is a patient for, for the
moment getting excited because it's coming versus the shock of not knowing.
Right.
Trey: And I think that's something that, especially with us being in
this space now of our social media, not only the algorithms, but the
people we follow because of the podcast, it's just going to happen.
So like, I I've made peace with it, but I still try to avoid it where possible.
So, yeah.
Well, I think that's a good heads up for people.
I think I'm going to do a quick solo reaction to it this weekend.
Uh, after you see it, we'll probably circle back around and do
a more, uh, per the norm of this.
Quick reaction to it and whenever we get to it, so we'll probably have
two episodes related to multi-verse of madness coming up very soon.
Yes.
But of course, if you download this episode, then you know, we're going to
be talking about season one episode six of moon night, titled gods and monsters.
So for the last time, this season, we're going to break this down
into some priest, boiler thoughts, uh, followed by an audio cue.
That'll take us into the spoiler zone before we get there.
Jude, what are your pre spoiler thoughts for this episode?
Jude: I'm going to double down.
Uh, I think, I think the finale curse was broken, um, in terms of
the obligatory, like the obligatory, you said, like we have to have an, a
finale and Tara say it's up there with a low-key finale, which is the best.
One of all the Disney plus shows
Trey: that's some high praise.
It's
Jude: I to think about it.
Cause I get the recency bias that comes around.
Cause it is like Loki's finale.
If you look at just the finale episodes, that's the best one.
I agree with that.
But the more I think about it and just put the finale side by
side, this ones that might be right there with it almost better.
I don't know.
Whoa it's it's I, I really, I enjoyed it.
I loved it.
Trey: So I think that'll be a time for me to sneak in here.
I'll I'll stick with my priest.
Portlethen where I said almost in contrast, this is the superhero land.
Jude: It's time.
It's time for, for MCU to stop and shut it down.
Like outlived its usefulness.
I think it was the text you sent me.
No,
Trey: uh, That's funny.
The, uh, I, I said, this is the superhero landing we've come to expect from the
Disney plus shows the difference being that I think there are more character
driven moments related to things we've already been discussing this season
that made it feel more in line with the story rather than it be the qualms
we've had in other shows where it's like, all right, the story's done.
Let's fight.
So I put it up there.
I think to borrow your phrasing from Hawkeye.
If one division for me is two a, I think Moonlight will be to be okay.
So that's, I think that's where it's falling for me.
So Loki, Wanda.
Right under it moon night and then hot guy.
Yeah.
Jude: Yeah.
Okay.
Is this just to change the tune?
I mean, from the other texts you sent me, but okay.
Wait, what other stuff?
This is the whole like, like clearly Sony's taken over everything.
The,
Trey: this is an audio only podcast.
You can't beat those lines.
They can't see your grin on this video.
Uh,
Jude: no, no, no, no, but you're right.
You're, you're definitely right on the, on that cause like that's
going to be really interesting.
So even for as good as Loki was, and I know we're still free to explore
their thoughts, but I'm doing this to kind of situate mood night.
One division was my favorite because of just the concept and the conceptual
and how creative it was as a start to finish complete package Hawkeye.
Became my, my favorite.
Right.
And we had that one, a one B discussion, but moon night, I liked that we can
have the JB wrap-up episode next week.
Cause it'll give you some more time to think about this.
Cause moon night is like right up there.
I'm like you said, in that conversation, you know, um, it's,
it's not a clear, I don't want to say step down, but it's not well, okay.
Let's just be honest, Falcon in winter soldier, as much as I enjoyed it, it's not
in this conversation and moon night is so
Trey: for sure, I think the, all my qualms come back to harken back
to the, the, the champion bid.
If Disney plus doesn't move past six episodes.
For the Marvel series, they are severely limiting how high these shows can reach.
Uh, that's my only complaint is that as much as I did enjoy the finale, the
pace at which things happen in this one was almost like shell-shocked compared
for the other episodes this season.
Jude: Yeah.
Well, which makes me really, really interested in.
Because we are supposed to get more episodes,
Trey: more episodes, shorter runtime, I
Jude: think.
Right, right.
So, so it'll be the same link, but the shorter, the sh you
know, the shorter run time.
So you get two more episodes, uh, similar to one division, right?
Like when you got, you know, so I'm, I'm curious of what that,
what that's going to do to it.
Yeah.
Trey: Well, cool.
I think that might wrap up our spoiler thought.
So, like I said, you're going to hear an audio cue.
And on the other side, it'll be fair game for all spoilers in the MCU.
I guess it's important to note this now, not including Dr.
Strange and the multi-verse of madness that one has now been exempt
and the spoiler zone, and will not be out of the exemption until a
week after it lands on Disney plus.
So you're safe to listen moving forward, especially cause we haven't seen it.
All right.
See you
Jude: right now for you.
If you're new LR, a couple of months,
Trey: That too.
Yeah.
Thanks Jude.
Who remains?
We'll see you on the other side.
Um,
and we're back.
So the way we're going to handle this is we're going to break this down into
the four most important topics of this episode, starting with the Egyptian.
Reunions gods and monsters and laters Gators.
Now, before I throw it a huge, weird, I do want to say this.
I texted you immediately after finishing the episode and the history of this show.
I don't think anyone has ever been as correct as leech, whenever she guested
on the episode and we were speculating about what could possibly be happening.
And she goes, it's probably going to be some amalgamation of
everything we've said and something we haven't even thought about yet.
And then this episode, I feel like we all had just a nugget of truth.
So I just wanted to, I wanted to put that on the
Jude: record, writers' room was clearly scouring, you know,
Reddit forums for that episode.
And just like a little bit of everything.
Is that right?
Reddit forums.
Anyways subreddits,
Trey: but it's fine.
Listen, I don't want to get into another four page paragraph
of why you hate reading
Jude: so well, it's like, it's like, it's like, no, it's a subreddit.
It's not a forum.
It's like, okay, come on Starbucks, it's a coffee.
Like why, why do you want me to, you know, eventually Starbucks is like bought in.
Like, you can just order a larger media and they don't chastise you for
it, but not ready to use your snow.
It's a subreddit, not a forum.
Okay.
Trey: I just love how upset you get at Reddit.
Jude: Anyways.
Trey: So like I said, we're going to start with the Egyptian superhero.
This section is going to be for us to detail all the scenes that involve Layla
as she is trying to put a stop to HARO on her own, uh, refusing to wear it
for the avatar status, as well as the super cool reveal of her hero costume.
So starting with you, Jude, where would you like to start within the section
Jude: mixed feelings when she became the avatar?
Uh, cause there was, and maybe there was just some confusion on my part.
Right?
Cause, cause I really, really loved cause the obvious choice is like or
what, well, a little limited change the back, the, the quote unquote
stereotypical show choice of a show like this is, yes, I'll be your avatar.
Cause we got to fight, you know?
And like there's like, no.
Do it on my own, you know, which, which I loved.
I loved that sense of like, no, I got this, I can do this.
And not because it's like a, like I'm strong enough.
It was a, it was a sense of agency thing.
Right.
It was, you know, I am going, I get to make my own choice
and be proactive in that.
And so I loved that.
And so, so later when she did have to become avatar, see, every time I say that,
I think of Ang, but the, you know, to, to become that avatar, it was like, okay.
She, she just, she did still choose it.
So she didn't lose that sense of agency, but she didn't really
have a choice either because.
It was completely outmatched without it.
You know what I mean?
And so I had this weird conflicting there cause I loved it, but there was an element
is like, I, I couldn't, I didn't know how it felt if they, if they like undid
that choice earlier to say, no, I, cause
Trey: I did like at least how they.
Conscious you is also in the mix because we have is the first one to say like,
Hey, you know, you, you can be my avatar and we can work together to do this.
He was like, no, I'm going to stop hair on my own.
And then once she frees Concho, he's offering the same, the same
status, but she turned it down.
Once again, I can see where it feels like it does undo that choice.
But I think it's because it's on Layla's terms because she's, she's
detailing it with tar wherever it, which is like, this is temporary.
This is just to finish this and then we're done.
Whereas concert was gonna, you know, as far as we know, it was going to be
forever because he doesn't have a lot of wiggle room when it comes to mark Spector.
Uh, so I'm glad Layla at least stood up to him.
And I think the importance of them contrasting Concho here.
As we see how, or at least we get confirmation of the way he manipulated
mark, because we talked about it last week with the like, you know,
he's burying the lead with protectors of the travelers of the night.
Oh.
But you're actually just going to go out and kill these people for me
again here, when he's speaking with Layla, he he's trying to guilt her
in it by saying like, oh, mark died because he was in crisis over you.
And we know though, that's not true.
It was the crisis of the inability to accept the truth
of the trauma and his mother.
So right there, concha is caught in a lie and nobody within the show knows
that, but it's, Layla's character.
That holds true against his manipulation.
So we still got the success of being heard choice and on her
terms when it comes to tile
Jude: ribbon right now, and I think that's good.
Like, and that's what I mean, like, I didn't dislike as much as pre spoiler.
I prior to the spoiler zone, like I praising this, but then there was that
element of like, it was, it was just a fine needle to thread, but I liked
the, I liked the terms you put it on.
And I was like, she, it was, it was on her terms, I will
Trey: say.
However, it's got to learn to keep their cool, cause they
almost put Layla in danger there because she was like, perfect.
Like hidden.
She got the, uh, the Shakti, she broke it.
She was putting things in motion.
And then finally, whenever she starts to be like, okay, Uh, she
comes back and screams Layla, like so loud and just gave away her
position that, that made me laugh.
And I don't know if that was intentional, but that was, that was really funny to me.
Jude: Oh, it had to be intentional.
Cause, cause I mean, we said it that other episode, right.
There's just that, that personality, the listening, Leslie
Knope of Egyptian gods, right?
Like just so excited and you know, hold on, hold on.
Let me, let me, let me get my binder out and, and flip through the pages.
Um,
Trey: yeah, which kudos to may Columbia.
'cause she everybody's talked so much this season about Oscar Isaac
of jumping between the identities.
She does it here where she's of course the Layla character, and then she's
supposed to be embodying the voice of
And as they jumped back and forth between the being the pain of being
the voice of a God and the God being all happy and expressive in
their emotions, I thought that was a pretty fluid jump back and forth.
Jude: Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
It was really impressive.
I mean, well, first just across the board, I want to say this and then
put a pin in it until next week, but just, just across the board.
Ethan Hawke, Donna, like, um, like just across the board, it was so well done.
And so believable.
Trey: Yeah.
Is it Abraham F Murray, the voice of country as well?
Jude: No.
Flip that F F Murray Abraham, I believe.
Yeah.
Trey: I really think it would be fun at some point.
And the list of all the episode ideas, we have to evaluate the
shows as a whole of the cast.
Like just evaluate like the cast performances themselves, because
Moonlight for sure has got to be up there.
I think, I think he made a good point about how across the board solid as heck.
Yeah, man, it'd be fun.
I like
Jude: immediately you say that and I'm just thinking about one vision.
Okay.
Table,
Trey: that it would be fun and it's not to disparage any of the talent.
It's like, you know, forced to choose which, which shows had the most static.
Yeah.
Jude: Well, and I don't even know if I'd say stacked in terms of, cause so
far, I'd say this might've been the most stacked in terms of name recognition.
Trey: Well, I'm in performance,
Jude: but that's what I mean, like in terms of like just complete performance
had his body in, cause this one.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's tough.
Okay.
Trey: We'll put a pin in it and we'll come back to it.
One of the most important things we need to get to in this first
section though, is after Layla has been going around and trying to put
a stop to HARO, had the meeting with Khan Shu was rejecting to our web.
And at first she eventually decides on her terms to do it.
And we have a very cool revelation of her costume Sudip scene.
What'd you think of that reveal?
Jude: My first thought was she rocks.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, now I know others who've said to me later, like the wonder woman, 84,
because of the, the wings and the goal.
But yeah, because of the, why I thought she wrote it, it made me immediately think
of like He-Man and, um, I don't know why.
Uh, but yeah.
Yeah.
I loved it though.
I remember
Trey: cause like it's coming down the pike, you can see it.
They're alluding to it.
And she comes through the rubble and was like, okay, that's a really cool suit.
I like that.
And she starts to reach behind her.
I was like, okay, cool.
I guess she's got swords.
When the wings popped out.
I was like, oh man, that went from like a cool costume to one of the best costume.
One, one fell swoop.
Jude: Yeah.
Yeah.
Like in, it was that's the other thing T you know, episode ideas.
Let's just talk about the suits and the costumes, because that w was just
so like, it was so good in terms of.
Superhero, but it had that kind of Egyptian ancient feel, you know, but it
also felt or looked practical, you know?
And so it just really hit the mark.
Yeah.
Trey: I th I think the practicality of it helps it a lot, uh, especially
because unfortunately I think some of the moon night sequences
did not look great costume wise.
Like it just didn't look finished.
So in contrast Layla's costume, which I believe, I think they're
on, on social media, they're calling her the Scarlet scarab.
Yes.
That suit looked phenomenal.
Of course, we do have some fight sequences of hers to get into, but we're going
to put a pin in that and we're going to come back to it and group the fight
sequences in a later most important topic.
But I think unless there's any more, we can go ahead and move into
the next, most important topic.
This one is reunions.
So within this episode, we have a lot of characters getting back together
for the first time in this season.
So we have Ahmed and Khan Shu as they discuss their ideologies.
We have HARO and Ahmet getting together once again, as well as mark and Stephen
reconciling after last week's episode.
So starting with me this time, I am going to start with mark and
Steven, because I think so much of my enjoyment of this episode is off
the back of that scene, where we see.
Mark has gotten everything he wants.
He's finally got peace.
He's made it into paradise, the field of reeds.
And he decides to leave it to go be with Steven because after
everything they've been through so much of the season has been them at
odds and not accepting each other.
They accepted each other in the last minutes last week.
And because of that, that is what propels them forward through this episode.
And we see it later on in the action sequence, how much that is the reward
of the work that's put into this scene.
So mark and Steven, having that very tearful moment where mark is like,
you know, you, you are, you saved me and I wasn't able to protect you.
And I'm sorry, the fact that we know the guilt of him not being able to
protect his younger brother, maybe some sort of projections into what
Steven's relationship is to him.
Finally, being able to, to forgive himself for that, I
think was a very powerful moment.
I, I really enjoyed that scene.
Jude: Yeah.
I think that if Steven wasn't, I mean, well, let's put it this way.
I'm going to go back to, to Oscar, Isaac, his performance, because if Steven
wasn't such a lovable character that wouldn't have worked, you know, and, and
the only reason I say that is because there is an element of God that was
such a tough needle to thread, right?
Cause there's, there's the whole, like we follow as an
audience in love with Stephen.
So you really feel that if he's gone, but that is the identity, that's
the dissociative identity to protect himself from the horrific trauma.
And so there's also a moment of healing too, so we can S for mark,
so we can say Stephen goes away and.
And so you have to, so it's like they're walking this fine line of like, yeah,
you're healed from this trauma, but there's this recognition of not letting
go of Steven by, by March part that I think still has to come across as
healthy, otherwise that balance and growth of the character doesn't make sense.
And that's why I say that was, felt like a really hard needle to thread.
And I think, you know, just shows how.
Well crafted Isaac's performance was of those two characters,
Trey: a hundred percent, because last week you were right that if we're following
this, this story of mark and he's finally made to borrow your word or your phrasing
healing, like he understands why this identity was originated and he understands
that he may or may not need it anymore.
It would make sense that we wouldn't see Stephen again.
Right.
But selfishly speaking for me, selfishly, I'm glad he's back.
And I think they, that they did find a way to work that in
Jude: well, and I think recently in an interview, Oscar, Isaac said he
enjoyed Stephen in terms of like, which one he played more than he did mark.
Trey: That feels right.
Because I remember when, whenever we asked this question about no way home of who
was the best Spider-Man in that movie.
And we S we, we were kind of twisted knots, but we talked
about it's clear, Andrew Garfield was the one having the most fun.
Yes.
Oscar Isaac seemed like he was having the most fun with Steve.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Jude: That's a good
Trey: way.
But just by nature of the character, it's, it's hard not to, to have fun with them,
which I think like I can lead this into one of the other reunions we have is when
Steven and mark are now unified in their goals, they are negotiating with Conchero.
I wasn't expecting Steven to be so confident in the Moonlight
status with his suit, Mr.
Knight and sitting there negotiating with Concho, like the calmness at which
he is like, oh, you silly old bird.
And he puts his leg up over his other leg.
And it's just trying to make sure that when they're done, they're free.
Ah, man.
I'm so glad Steven's back.
Jude: Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Like it's just, it's interesting because the way they.
Showed them them meaning mark and Steven switch out seamlessly, you know, so, you
know, th that, that carried through the theme of yes, they truly are balanced.
Um, and in that, in that way, um, and you know, and, and so again, it's a show.
Don't expect them to show dissociative identity disorder as accurate.
And, you know, as far as I understand dissociative identity disorder, the
word accurate is not a proper word to use, uh, because even experts
won't like that, the DSM five, right?
Uh, the manual with all the different diagnosis and descriptions it's in there.
To get an actual, as I understand it, to get an actual diagnosis, what it
is, what it looks like, the differences between that and say like borderline
personality disorder, or just associate of, um, uh, oh, there's another
one, uh, with a just association, but experts disagree, you know?
So even to say accurate is kinda not right, but for what they were
doing in the show, this was, it works
Trey: so well actually the way, like all season we saw how much it's been.
Clever ways to make the switch.
It's either say clever, but it's sometimes it says as blunt as just the blackout
come back to more, we see the reflections in some sort of reflective surface.
And then that's when they're able to make the switch.
But the way the camera is able to have Moonlight there, it pans up to Concho
as he's speaking and it comes back down.
And now it's it's Mr.
Night, or maybe the reverse of that.
I thought that was all well done because they mask the.
For lack of a better way of putting it, but nanotech of iron man suit the
way that, that materializes on them.
They don't have to do that every time between Mr.
Dayton, moon night and the ease at which they do that speaks both to
their newfound teamwork, as well as.
Clever ways of getting us in and out quickly.
Jude: Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and, and what they did with mark, Steven and Concho, I need to, I need to
watch this whole series of kids start to finish and just like pause and take
notes and spend like a month doing this.
Cause like what, like what they did with them, those three characters in
terms of what we bring up a lot is the hero's journey of the story circle
in a very classic hero's journey.
You have the magician slash mentor role, right?
A magician.
If you're using the Carl Young terms, mentor, if you're using the Joseph
Campbell, you know, um, hero's journey.
Uh, but in terms of like archetype or they're doing the same thing, but it's,
it's so interesting because like there's a lot of ambiguity in terms of like,
kind of has a little bit of that mentor magician sets you on a journey role.
But so does mark for Steven and Steven for mark and, and, and part of that
hero's journey and story circle is you have to take what the mentor has
given you in return with it, right.
And in that, you know, and, and you, and you see that happen between the
three of them, but aside from you, mark and Steven is like, the mentor is the
same physical body, you know, um, the
Trey: mentee
Jude: and well that, well, that's what I'm saying.
Like the mentor, like, I guess I'm trying to say, like, in a
way, Steven is Mark's mentor.
And Stephen's mentor.
So it's like the same physical body and, and, and, and that balancing of, of mark
taking in using Stephen and, and stuff.
And, and so it just, it was a really clever way to adapt that in and use the,
the did to kind of it's like that self mentorship, you know, like, like you
could always have done it, it's within you kind of this realization, so to speak.
Trey: That's an interesting way to look at it.
I've never thought about them, both being the mentor, mentee within the same.
Physical body, but two distinct identities.
That'd be, that'd be a fun thing to keep in mind in a rewatch.
Jude: Yeah.
Uh, so, so let's pause the pod.
I'm going to go watch it and we'll see you in about six hours.
Sounds good.
All right.
And we're back.
Okay.
Magic of editing.
Trey: So do you learn anything new,
Jude: um, popcorns and beer doesn't go well together.
That's that's, that's what I've learned.
Um, no, not really.
I've I've, I've known that for a long time.
Well, a little bit more free when it's just the two of us to
kind of, I know I'm just, I'm
leaning
Trey: into not to disparage the guy.
It's just like, I don't think the guests realize how much.
When it's just,
no, I don't want to say professional because we still do get silly at
times, but we're there's little, the rains have been released a little bit.
Jude: Right?
Well, Melissa conscious and we talk about it a lot off pod.
The two of us about, um, having the guests and making, you know,
they're on for a reason, we want to hear what they have to say.
So we're going to make that space.
You know, to, for, for them to speak.
So we ended up raining ourselves in a little bit in that that's
Trey: funny.
Well, you know what?
Speaking of the space to speak, I think one of the other ones we can get into in
this reunion section is HARO finally gets everything he wanted and freeze Ahmet.
I know I personally found it pretty funny that so much of this season has
been about the dedication of HARO and the links that, which he goes to live
to this rigid belief of the scales.
Um, it's free.
And it's like, well, I lived within the rigidity and got locked for 2000 years.
So even though you are unbalanced, I'm still going to let you be my
habits because it serves me this time.
Right,
Jude: right.
What I find so funny about that is the premise of Ahmed is.
I know you're going to do bad.
Right.
So we're going to stop you.
And so there's no belief in redemption and until that moment for that one person,
you know, and it's just like,
Trey: But I don't think it's like, it doesn't make the show bad.
I think it just points out the hypocrisy of, of Ahmed, which is fine.
And I'm speaking purely of the MCU show, not getting it as he not getting into
any of the historical texts whatsoever.
And so it works.
It's just, it's very funny.
And I think there is some contrast here because Ahmed is apparently disciplined
in these principles, but ends up breaking and she has a bit of, I'm doing this
for the greater good, but on the flip side shoes and jerk man, like he's
constantly referring to everybody as worms, or I'm trying to stop you from
making this terrible thing happened.
But at the same time, he's so manipulative.
So like you have.
Concho being the quote unquote good guy while being the, the most ruthless
verbally, if that makes sense.
Whereas Ahmet is saying nice things, but the actions are the ruthless part.
So there's something there.
I just, I would say it's speaking of rewatch, that's something that
I would need to go back and pay atten a little bit more attention to
now that we have the whole puzzle.
Yeah.
Jude: Well, you know what, it's interesting.
I tried to think, would this have been satisfying and the, okay, so the rules
of the show, I don't know if they could have made it work, but, but they actually,
no, I think they could have made it work.
I think if that religious fanaticism, if they would have.
Leaned into that just a little bit more like clearly it was there, right?
Like they started running up and down and the idea that just because they had the
tattoo, they also had the power to judge, which was interesting, but I don't think
I would have been unsatisfied with this and it would have been really shocking.
I wouldn't have minded seeing them to be consistent and
have Ahmet do away with HARO.
Right, right then.
And that would have been shocking, but I don't think it would have
been unsatisfying of like, oh, I didn't get to see this final
showdown because now it's Ahmed.
And I would say Ahmed from the other followers who are worthy, it's, it's
almost like the end of Ironman, three in reverse where Tony stark was jumping
in and all those different suits.
And you're seeing Ahmet jump in and out of all the different followers as avatars,
Trey: I think I'm on that limb with you because one of the
things we talked about in previous episodes is what makes HARO, so.
Intimidating is the depth of the belief.
And in this revelation, he was like, I thought, my, you know, my work would
be pennants and then my scales were balanced, but I see that's wrong.
I accept my fate.
It would have been like, oh wow.
It would, it would be, I think it would continue on that line
of intimidation of like Hearos gone with the ideas still lives.
Oh yeah, that would, that would be horrifying.
But in terms of stuff we'll get into later, I feel like they were locked
into having to need HARO around specifically that scene where mark
and Steven are back in the psych ward.
I feel like just the medically, they need to keep her around, but I can
see your point of like, yeah, I think it would still be satisfying if Ahmed
decides to do away with HARO there.
Yeah.
Jude: Yeah, I think so.
I kind of wonder if.
That was ever in the development process and option.
Trey: Um, yeah, that, oh, I didn't ever, I keep, I always forget until right after
the finale of like, oh, we might get into a symbol documentary on, not that I,
not that I don't know if they'd go into that level of minutia, but it would be
interesting to see what, what discussions were had in the writing room for this.
Jude: Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause it, and cause that, that would have been, yeah, I don't think I
would have saw that as unsatisfying.
Um, and I'm going to say this to go back to my point of where it broke
the curse of the obligatory fight.
Is it really, I mean, for me it didn't feel like we had the fight cause we
had to have it cause it was the show.
And, and I think that if, if they would have.
Killed off HARO that would have even up the stakes, even more in terms
of the intensity of the fight, it
Trey: feels like we're getting ready to move into the next section, which
we do have for all the fight sequences.
But I do want to take some time to detail how much I loved Ahmed's character design.
Uh, they referred to her as the weird crocodile lady earlier in the
season, but man, actually coming to fruition, I thought she looked great.
Not necessarily meshing well with the realism of live action and
the CGI character, but on a pure aesthetic of the model, I thought
it looked really, really cool.
Jude: Oh yeah.
A 100%.
You know what I w I was really impressed with the animation
of Ahmed and, um, country.
I think there's some, there's some things visually, you know, CGI wise
where it's like, okay, that felt like a little, like, okay, you ran out of money.
Um, but I don't think I, I don't, I didn't feel that way with Ahmet and,
um, country in this last episode,
Trey: I think it's not, it's more seamless when it's two CGI characters that it's
it's, it's not as easy to draw comparison.
But whenever on it's interacting with HARO, that's where it
starts to feel like, okay.
Like, yeah, it feels a little off.
I think the one that stood out to me the most is after mark and Steven except
Concho again, because they go through that entire flashback sequence of like, do you
swear to protect the trailers of the night kind of thing when he suiting up again?
That to me, that's what looked under cooks.
Um, so there there's, it's a little bit, I like the way you put it ran out of
money, budget wise and some sections, but as far as conduit and Ahmet together,
I can see that holding up a little bit.
Jude: Yeah, yeah.
To me, that held up really well.
And I'm just going to take us into see the gods and monsters, because
one of the thing I was most impressed about with that whole sequence.
It was how the fight between Amit and Concho, mirrored, the fight
between moon Knight and HARO and, and like who was winning.
And, and so you could see truly like this battling out of the gods through
humanity, you know, and, and with the CGI in that sequence, I mean,
cause there was so much CGI in there.
I never looked at that and thought, oh, that looks bad.
Like I was with it the whole way through.
' Trey: cause I talked about whenever it was two CGI characters up against
each other, like that worked.
It was the trying to mesh CGI in live action.
The shot now worked the best for me is when Khan, Concho and Ahmed
are just giant size and they're fighting in the background.
And then the carer keeps moving and you see horo coming into frame.
That shot looked incredible like that that's stuff like that really worked.
Some, some of the ones where it started to fall apart is as much
as I love the framing of the shot, where a Moonlight has flown in at
mock speed it through the night sky.
And he lands on the pyramid and the camera tilts and the running at each other down
the pyramid, that kind of felt a little weird, but the framing of it was cool
enough that I was like, okay, this is I'm, this is indulgent, but I'm loving it.
Jude: Yeah.
Like, I, I I'm with you.
Like, I can see where it's like, okay, you could have touched it up a little.
Uh, it didn't stick out to me, you know?
So like in that first episode, Of the entire season when the water
cause the sink is broken to me that that spilling over water from
the broken sink was obviously CGI.
And like, I can just tell immediately and, and because I could tell immediately
it was like, okay, I was just lost that sense of our suspension of disbelief.
Right?
Where am I even in that I didn't get that.
No, it did it.
Didn't take me out.
Trey: It's forgivable.
Jude: Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Forgivable is a great word.
Yeah.
Trey: And there's a part of it.
Like we're what six, five series deep into Disney plus territory.
Now you, you see where the ceiling is sometimes when it comes to the, the
limitations of it being a show and I'm, I'm much more comfortable with
that than, than in previous times.
Um, but sticking with the fight scene was one of the ones
that I wanted to highlight.
We talked about putting a pin in it is with Layla, the Scarlet scarab, her
sequence, I thought was really, really sweet because the way they incorporate
the wings of her suit, very Falcon ask.
But I love that they devoted time for her saving the people in the.
And then they had that little girl who's like, are you in Egypt?
In superhero?
And she just simply says, I am.
And the fight continues.
I thought that was super sweet.
And it, I there's been articles where Mohamad Diab has talked about
how important it was to set up the first Egyptian superhero forum.
And I'm glad that they got to have that integrated in, into this fight sequence.
Yeah, well
Jude: it, okay.
And that's the other thing is they did it in such a way that it was clearly like,
Hey audience, if you don't realize we have some representation going on right here.
Right?
Like, like this is important, but it wasn't.
Gratuitous might be the word I'm looking for.
Like it wasn't, it wasn't.
So like, I'm going to hit you over the head with it.
Like it worked, it fit, it felt you, you know what I mean?
Trey: It's an, it's a nice declaration statement in the paragraph of this season.
Okay.
Jude: Yeah.
Cause it's just, I mean, you know, like there was the complaints about
in-game on some things where it was like, oh, you just did this.
Cause you had to.
And it was just like, that doesn't mean it wasn't a cool moment.
You know, whereas for me it was like, yeah, this was a cool moment.
You should call it out.
Cause it it's, it's it's worth it, but it, it didn't feel that
way to me, if that makes sense.
Trey: I think what helps it a lot, at least for me is the
inspirational nature of it.
Having that, having it through the eyes of that young girl, I think is what sells it.
Because as much as, I mean, we're both grown men, we love the superhero stuff.
The heart of superhero shows is the inspiration.
And I think that's what Marvel is good at capturing it from all audiences
of bringing that inspiration in.
And so to have that specialness of that moment in this finale was really cool.
Yeah.
Jude: Yeah.
Well, and especially, I'm trying to think.
Okay, so who have we had that?
I mean, in black widow, they kind of point out black widow of like,
like, Hey, you're still a killer.
You know what I mean?
They, they had that.
Yulaina Natasha like I'm, you know?
Yeah.
Kids look up to you, but you're killing.
Kind of moment.
Um, you didn't ever have that moment with Kate Bishop because Kate Bishop
was doing that with my blinking Clint, Barton, you know that, um, couldn't
have that moment with Scarlet, which really, and one division, um,
yeah, like Tiana Paris, not really.
They didn't have that kind of moment with captain Marvel of
just like a clear recognition of.
Trey: Inspiration.
Yeah, captain Marvel.
I would push back in the Monica Rambo.
Young Monica Rambo was very much inspired by captain Marvel.
Okay.
I'm trying to think of the other ones you listed the other ones.
Jude: Well, I'm going to push back on that one, but go ahead.
You go
Trey: first.
The other ones listed, I, I obviously superheroes are much in broad daylight,
but they're not as public bound.
If that makes sense.
Like Yulaina works in the shadows.
Scarlet witch until very recently was very much.
Not as public until unfortunately she is in both cases of, uh, of Lagos' was it?
And then, uh, one, uh, Westview Sarah.
But as far as like captain Marvel, I think that they're a little bit more public
facing, but they had the interaction with Monica Rambo that which inspired them.
Jude: Yeah.
And the only the pushback I would have on Monica and captain Marvel
from the first movie would be, there was a prior two things.
There was a prior relationship, you know, um, of knowing her when she was younger.
And so like that was already there.
They, in other words, they weren't strangers, you know?
Um, and then depending on your reading of the film altogether, um, there was
a lot closer of a relationship of them three, then that was implied rather than
being an explicit, if that makes sense.
Um, Yeah.
And so that's why, you know, it also pushed back on that.
Not that it wasn't inspiration, but, but, but to have it, it was, it was a different
dynamic than what you'd get in room night.
Trey: Well, I mean, sticking with my, my phrasing, it was the public inspiration,
like the eyes of, of, of the public.
And so I see what you mean on that regard.
So, yeah, I, it would be fun to go back and re-examine a lot of
the public's relationship with the superheroes because you have the most
important ones, like civil war, where it's brought up front and center.
But these little moments like in the, are you, the Egyptian superhero or
Hawkeye was plenty of them, it would be fun to, to figure out something
to do episode wise with that.
So sticking within this section of gods and monsters, a lot
of the action sequences.
I am thrilled.
Again, I talked about in the reunion section, the reason this episode works
so much for me is they imbued the lessons of mark and Stephen working together.
In the action.
So it felt like the cap on the story, they were telling, having them jump back
and forth between moon Knight and Mr.
Knight so seamlessly and on Stephen's part.
So confidently was really rewarding in this episode, that scene where
Stephen is fighting and he takes that moment to like flick his
jacket and dust off the shoulders.
Yeah.
Dang man.
What?
Oh, what a turn from Stephen since episode one to now?
Jude: Well, and the one where he, the, he threw like his stick, but Mr.
Night and moon Knight caught it.
That was like, You know, my first I was like, wow, did they, was that a jump cut?
Was that a bad edit?
I was like, no, if that was just a good visual way of showing how
synergetic they are, how is that a word?
Um, see, look at you.
Trey: my favorite part was you were doing your little hand mess and you
got mad and threw your hand, not mad, but you like threw your hands down.
Look at you.
Jude: Now, here is one of the things I loved about the fight, the
resolution, I felt so conflicted.
Trey: The resolution being.
Binding Ahmet to HARO or the violence
Jude: blackout.
Yeah.
Where they, they ended up winning because Jake took over and we didn't see it,
but it's like, it's like, wait a minute.
The people we're supposed to be cheering on when air quotes, but it's
because of the violent psychopath we've yet to meet at this point of
the episode, but we all know exists.
And so it's like, it's hard to feel like.
Like wait a minute.
I don't, I felt so conflicted
Trey: there.
I think this is where it was clear as day.
For me, the adherence to six hours really hurts the show because up
until this point, it's like, yeah, I, you know, I'm liking this.
This is fine.
Whenever he blacks out Hearos incapacitated, the camera's
panning around them is like, I'm assuming that wasn't you.
And Steven's like, Nope.
And then it pans over to Layla's.
It's like mark, what happened?
And he goes, I blacked out.
It really felt like they were building up to this meeting of, we were
finally going to unveil Jake Lockley.
And then it's like, oh, that was weird.
I know how to finish this.
And so they just went in back into the fear of it and they bound to have it.
I think this show has a, a problem in the way they worked in the third
identity, but the third identity identity was relegated to a postcard.
Like it's like, they both wanted to acknowledge it, but didn't really want
to incorporate into the story they were telling right down to the way
how everybody and our discord that's been a conflict of like, okay, well,
how are the scales balanced if Jake Lockley was in there this whole time?
And there's been some fun discussions back and forth how
that could logically make sense.
But
Jude: I wouldn't say that it does logically make sense, but go ahead.
Trey: Yeah, I'm on that same camp too, because to me, I read it as it's
not bouncing of the personalities.
It's the bouncing of the acceptance of each other.
And if they don't know the other one's there, then there's
no need for that to balance.
However, it's come from a storytelling perspective.
It's very muddied and what they're trying to do by wanting to both introduce this
mysterious identity, but not really pay it off in any regard, other than
setting up for potential storylines, but there's no confirmation that we're
going to get a season two, which I would be fine with if they didn't hammer.
So much of this is a limited series.
This is its own thing.
Who knows when these characters are going to pop up again kind of thing.
Jude: Right.
Well, and that's the thing though we know from the show and show, we know from the
show, Steven is the creation of Martin.
And if neither one of them know about Jake, there's that question still looming.
I'm assuming Stephen create can't create another person.
So it has to be a creation of mark.
Maybe that tracks for me, I mean, it tracks, but it's like, what was that?
A creation of mark, another dissociation while being country's Vista vengeance.
Was it how he, you know, w we, we, we see, we joked about with slushie,
about being, you know, in the military, going a wall and what a Steven showed.
Like you could, while it might logically tracks of like, okay, so
Stephen can't create only mark can, but it could track that if also to say
Steven is completely another identity.
And if he shows up in one of those situations, another identity
shows up without realizing it.
And so that's why mark doesn't know Stephen doesn't have
you, you know what I mean?
Like they could write a story that way.
And that's why I say it makes sense that the balance is between the two of them.
Cause they only, like you said, no.
Um, but I agree with you in the sense of it's dare I say the power broker.
Trey: Yes.
I think that's actually a great one-to-one because both PowerBroker
and this third identity, I'll just say, Jake, I don't know why I'm
trying to keep it as secret anymore.
Uh, the PowerBroker and Jake are both referred to within their series.
Yeah.
Indirectly in Jake's case, directly in the power brokers case.
And the resolution is, are not necessarily the resolution, but
the meat of their story is in the post-grad of the season kind of thing.
Yeah.
So I'm thinking it's been a while since Fagen the winter soldier, I'm pulling
back just a little bit because PowerBroker does get the scene with Carly at the
end, but yeah, I think it's there.
I think you're, you're, you're correct.
And referring to it as the power broker situation.
Jude: Yeah.
Uh, cause it, cause we all know it's Jake moving in.
It's just a matter of when I don't think that it was as unsatisfying.
As the PowerBroker though.
I think it did.
I think you're right.
It kind of not kind of, I think it muddied the story.
I think you're right on that part.
But in terms, I don't think it made the, the series unsatisfying in the same way
as what they did with the PowerBroker.
Trey: Yes.
Yeah.
I can agree to that for sure.
Jude: No, you're also right in when we think about power brokers.
Well, cause we don't know when the power broker is going to show up again.
Trey: Oh, that's what I wanted to, to clarify, because I
I've talked about it before.
I don't know if it's been an Intacct or where it's popped up, but I've,
I've mentioned I'm not as limited to limited series as much as everybody
seems to be like, okay, this is it.
We're never going to tonight.
Again, I know we're most likely going to get more Moonlight, but
if it structurally, when you go into developing a show, it's a.
To have that hooks for something more when your goal is that, oh no, this is
just going to be its own kind of thing.
So the fact that that doesn't pay off within the show itself
is, is the thing that is weird to
Jude: me.
Yeah.
So to go along with that, you know, so you mean so interesting.
We have a lot of group texts.
Um, we, I sent a message to you and JB, the three of us, um, that I seen it.
Um, and then out of sport, you know, Jamie said he saw it out of spoilers for you.
We went to our own text.
I said, I liked it.
This is me to JB.
I liked it.
Uh, as far as finales go, I think they did a really good job and notice this.
The same day I saw it like within, like within an hour of seeing it.
Um, so I hadn't first impressions hadn't really seen it yet.
I said, it makes me wonder if some point, if at some point they decided
to go from one to two seasons, then made some different editing choices.
And his response was, I think I was thinking the same thing.
It felt reshuffled.
And it's interesting because like the in tag, I think felt like an actual intake,
but it does just all that to say it does make me wonder if there was a reshuffling,
Jake was going to show up and as a commitment of switching, you know, Th
there there's some stuff of Jake that got
Trey: shuffled out, you know what, let's go ahead and move into the
last, most important topic, which is laters Gators, where we can discuss
in a moment, mark and Steven finally being free of Concho, waking up in
the psych or getting done with that.
Going back to their home.
And the show ends specifically, we're now in the post credit scene of the
Jake Lockley reveal after he's picked up Harrow and is in the limo with
conscience, you know, earlier you were talking about how we joked with slushie
about the future state and being Steven and how it could potentially now be Jake.
I think it almost has to be something that consciously knew
about because in that post credit scene, we reveal like, oh, mark.
He truly thought that I was after Layla.
Why would I need anyone else?
He is everything I need because somehow Jake is able to remain a
hidden identity from both of them.
So he can continue to get what he wants while letting them
the believe that he's there.
They're free of Concho.
So I think as far as timeline goes, It does make sense that that Jake
Lockley may have been responsible.
And honestly, at this point, Jake, luckily may be the identity that was
popping in and out of episode one and not necessarily mark, because a lot of
the actions in episode one were really violent and we were led to believe
that was mark, but we now know that's more Jake's method of operations.
Jude: Yeah.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know what I find interesting, you know, not just that, but it's
conscious, you clearly knew about Jake.
I wonder what kind of control you has it cause like I'm wondering like
what triggers, cause at least at this point, the balance they're able
to seamlessly let each personality take over or identity and switch.
Whereas Jake seems like he just pops in on his own.
But conscious, you had to know that that, that Jake was there.
And so, yeah, I'm going to get my guy.
So is there, um, it makes me wonder if contract no way to trigger Jake
coming out or, you know what I mean?
Or was he just having to be super patient like, like, like what is the trigger
that gets Jake out and is Jake able to.
So press the other two.
Trey: I would almost have to say yes to that for it to be in line
with doing conscious bidding.
But based on the way mark is tripped up on the leg restraint again,
there has to be a reason they're still restraining themselves.
I think they may know there still some blackouts, but they haven't
attributed an identity to it.
And so, I don't know, I can go back and forth.
Like I can say either it's conscious being very patient and waiting for Jake
to pop up, or there's some suppression technique because he's able to come
out without spark spark without Steven are mark ever questioning what is
happening in the blackouts spark?
Jude: You know, it's okay.
Combine them.
That's what they do.
They're balanced.
This whole thing should be
Trey: me even in sparked.
Jude: Um, so yeah, I just, I don't know.
I'm I'm this is one, let me think one division, we know when I'll get
into season two, maybe, but like a season two to that concept and story.
Right,
Trey: right.
Like it wouldn't be one division two, not that seasons or two,
but it'll be a different title.
Maybe it's the Scarlet witch,
Jude: um, Falcon, the winter soldier even changing the name to
captain America, winter soldier.
It's clearly a season two off of that.
It's not something new Hawkeye.
I don't think we know
Trey: yet.
I would have to double-check I feel like I read somewhere and it may
have been from the creators of.
Moon nights.
So now I don't believe them, but they were saying something to the extent of
Hawkeyes, not getting a second season, which I'm shocked that we didn't get a
season two announcement for both Hawkeye I and Moonlight, which watched by the
time this episode drops that'll change.
Yeah.
I just,
Jude: I don't, anyways, that's a whole other thing.
So I don't want to go down that road of just like, how do you not
have a season two or a way to get Kate Bishop back on the screen?
Um,
Trey: oh, for Hawkeye, I think we're going to talk about moon cause for moon
night, like obviously we have Jacob.
Conscious still manipulating them, but there's more to be discovered
because they have that moment.
We, we glossed over it, but when Layla's talking to , she mentions her dad.
And so there's still more history to be discovered.
Jude: So, yeah.
So it's, and the only one thinking about it is it's just like my
excitement for what happens net I think is, is probably the, the,
the most I've had with this show.
Yeah.
Trey: They did such a great job.
Leaving you wanting more.
Like I said, for all the, all the issues I may have budding up against
the six hour limit of the Disney plus shows, I still want more.
I still really enjoy these characters and want to see them continue
Jude: well.
But, but that's the thing is like, I wanna, you know, season
two of this and where does it go?
And not that I'm not interested or excited for low-key, but
I'm more interested in this.
And in terms of, if we never get another season for Falcon, the winter
soldier, but captain America, Sam Wilson, captain America shows up again,
Bucky shows up again and elsewhere.
I would be fine with that without them getting another show.
Um, as much as I loved Hawkeye, as long as we're getting Kate Bishop
again, and ideally Kate Bishop in your lane, and together, again, it doesn't
have to be a Disney plus series.
I'll take them off, you know what I mean on a movie.
Whereas like I want another season of midnight.
Not just that he shows up somewhere.
We've talked
Trey: about it so much that this, the, the strength of the series is
the explorations of the characters that the movies don't get to have.
And honestly, this may be worth revisiting at some point, the weaknesses of the
show is the grand stakes finales that the, the movies are good at doing.
I, I would like, I'd be excited to see moon nights show up, but
we wouldn't get the exploration in a movie that we would in a.
So I, 100% understand what you mean.
And there's more like, I know for sure in that post-grad, it seemed
like I want, I want more of Concho because despite everything we saw
this, this season, I feel like I still, can't not his motivations.
I just want to know more about them because whenever he's speaking to Ahmed,
there are not noble and not ours, but he's trying to do the right thing.
Like he's trying to stop mass killing before any crime has been committed,
but the way he treats the characters closest to them is so vital.
And with so much vitriol, I want to see more of how conscious you operates.
And so a seasoned focused on him and Jake would be very worth watching for me.
Yeah.
And
Jude: that's, and that's, I think one of the things.
And I'm going to tread lightly here, because then I know you, you know,
we can explain to this next week or that, but that's one of the things
I loved about this series and this episode is it left me with that.
I wanting more of, or a continuation of this, rather
than like I was saying earlier.
Just, just give me the characters again.
I was like, no, I want this.
Trey: Yeah.
Well, as we're here in this laters Gators section, I think one of
the other things we can pivot over towards is after mark and Steven
had been released from comm Shu.
They awake back in Dr.
Hearos office and.
I will speak for me because I remember the first time I watched it, there was some
ambiguity to it, of what I was seeing.
The second time I watched it, there was still some ambiguity.
It wasn't until the rewatch right before we recorded that.
I got my read.
I don't know if it's the correct one, but I'd be interested in seeing what
you think there's a shot in particular.
That that was the, the final puzzle piece for me, where whenever we're back in
the office, we've as much as we've been working with the reflections, the shot
of mark and Steven in the chair, we are looking through the reflection up to him.
And I think that might be one of the first times we've seen that in the show.
And so my read of that scene is that version of Dr.
Harrow was within Stephen and Mark's own mind.
And it was that it wasn't necessarily that horrible.
The reality was manipulating them, but it was their own mind that was
trying to put them in their own corner.
So whenever they finally have done away with them and he's walking
away and they see the blood on his shoes, it's the mind finally
realizing, oh, you have no power here.
And so the fact that they put us through the reflection is what made
me finally be like, oh, I get it now.
Like that's, that's why we believe something different.
And then that's how they're able to break free of the limitation
of their, I don't want to say fear of, of horror, but for simplicity,
I'll say that fear version of him.
Jude: Hi, I'm going to have to go rewatch that.
Um, cause I wasn't sure how to take that scene.
Um, It felt out of place in terms of, not for the show, but like are not, hold
on, let me make sure I say this right.
It felt out of place in terms of like the sequencing within the episode.
Yes, it jarring.
Yeah.
And it was like, so, so where it ended up, it felt like they
were trying to do one more.
Huh?
Maybe let's mess with them one more time.
What's real.
And what's not, when I was like, okay.
It made me feel like, okay, you've gone too far, you know?
And that scene would have worked better sooner in the episode.
Um, does that
Trey: make sense?
Yeah, that was originally my feeling too.
I was like, okay, this, this series is really unloved.
Shock and trying to get you to question what's real and
what's not real, which is fine.
I think that's inherent to the comic series from the little I know about
it, but it's the shot of looking through the reflection up to Steven.
That really solidified me.
He's like, oh no, I like it.
It's, it's almost like you have the action.
And this was the, the mental fight and the thing that was kind of like,
well, Tourette shows up in it too, but I mean, it could just be some
explanation of like both the mind and the afterlife melding together.
So jumping in and out of, of realities, I guess.
But I think I just like, I'm going to settle on, this was
kind of like a mental fight.
One between the idea of HARO and the acceptance of themselves.
And
Jude: my only issue with that is in if HARO and Stephen slash mark
spark, if Harland spark would have fought in the hospital.
So basically do the same thing you did, right?
Or you cause you're the creator.
Um, if they do the same thing where it's like, you have the Ahmed Khan, you fight
marrying each other with the other fight.
But the fight between spark and HARO takes place in the mental institution.
So it was very clearly mental and then physically going out with
the gods and as they, when they come out of that, does that mean.
Um, and maybe that's even what they were trying to do, but it just, I didn't get it
Trey: that I was gonna say, I think out of place sequencing is the best way to
put what is in conflict with the story.
Like, even if, even if we understand the story meeting now, it's still a
bit of a jarring moment kind of thing.
So I think, think your potential like fix, I was trying to avoid
it, but we were putting our writer hats on you're a potential fix, I
think would really solidify that and make it more, uh, Congress with
the story they were telling were.
Cause I just mentioned, it feels like this series really loves shock and trying to
make you question what's real or what's not real, even though I finally came
to that conclusion with the, looking through the reflection, being my compass
in that I still don't know where I land on them, waking back up in their
apartment kind of thing, because it's.
What happened to Layla or what happened to all those people that were
judged or they just gone, like what?
There's no bringing them back kind of thing.
Which, I mean, that's its own rabbit.
If you get down through the rabbit hole of consequences of a superhero
action show, that's its own thing.
But it just, because of that, that sequencing it's like, okay, am
I supposed to believe this real?
Am I supposed to believe it's not?
Or why are they chained up again?
All of these, I guess, are questions for the potential season
Jude: two.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's why I'm convinced that that's
Trey: happening.
And I told you, I texted you Wednesday.
I think we've already seen the marketing switch from series
finale to season finale.
So I think,
Jude: yeah, supposedly that's like hurt their chances.
Trey: Oh, I'm glad you brought that up.
I saw somebody say like, oh, they're probably trying to, to
just say no, no, it's a limited series for award ceremonies.
And then after it's like JK, it's going to season two
Jude: in terms of what category they put it on.
Has that ever happened?
I don't know, I never paid attention.
I never paid attention to the Emmy's.
I paid attention to the Oscars until I realized it's like,
Trey: you know, it's so funny.
We always talk about how, whenever it comes to finales, we're like, oh man,
we don't really know what to talk about.
Cause it's like the action sequences and they're fine.
We made a meal out of a three minutes.
I know that that's the most fun part.
I think for us as these little sections, towards the end of the finale where
it gives us enough to, to consider,
Jude: I wonder if we should cut out that part of the most important topics.
Like I know
Trey: it was cool.
Anyway, this is where we thought it would be a good writing center.
Jude: Well,
Trey: unless there's any more, I think we can go ahead and
move into listeners first takes.
Jude: Yeah, let's see what they have to say.
Trey: So this first one comes in from the slushie on Twitter, a guest from
last week and she said, Well, my take aged, like milk punch of laughing emojis.
I responded to them and I said, listen, I still really like
their mother sarcophagus idea.
Like I, if we didn't get Jake Lockley, I was going to go
to bat with them right there.
I was like, no, I really like her read
Jude: slushy playing the long game.
This is season two.
Trey: So we're going to have to have slushie back on for sure.
In season two so she can defend her on it.
Yeah,
Jude: we can double down on the Chicago, I guess mom.
Cause like, I, I, that's a good idea and it's still there cause
we never had a very good idea.
We never officially saw what was in that circle,
Trey: I guess.
And, and if I'm right in my read of the mental ward, being the quote
unquote mental fight spark would know to think about Jake, Nope.
Slushy where I'm, you know what I'm with you, your tape did not age like milk.
You're fine.
Jude: Uh, it was just right.
There was just enough spectacle and leftover mystery for a season two.
I hope it gets one.
Also with Sam as a new captain America, I guess someone was applying to be
the new Falcon, uh, that was kin.
Um, my Ken's missing something.
I thought I texted you
Trey: some, I didn't get any from that.
Did you text me something for sure.
If you texted me.
Jude: Oh,
Trey: Ken's mysterious.
Whereabouts remains for the next deficit.
Jude: I see.
I thought, I thought you were just trolling me and leaving it off.
Yeah, because it says the scene where Layla saves the people from the
van made me think of the truck from Falcon, the winter soldier and of tray.
And he wasn't the only one I thought of it too.
Oh, that's funny.
And of course the last, the other thing he said, he did find it.
Interesting.
This is more straight thought, I guess, but I'm not going to just put it here.
So I brought it up and the recap portion of moon night, they kind of
made Steven look like a klutz because he says something like, if he can do
it, so can I, and then when he lunges at one of them, he falls over the boat.
So like they cut the part where he fought.
Trey: Yeah.
That was weird.
If I'm not mistaken, I think it was a different tape.
Probably
Jude: so,
Trey: so that's so funny
Jude: to my photos.
I have the screenshot of the text that I was gonna text it to you.
Oh, I know.
I added it to the clicker.
Trey: Oh, okay.
That's what we did is go and look at that next
Jude: time I tried, I tried to use our, our nice project management planning
tool and yeah, I should just text you.
Trey: Well, it was your first time.
So a heads up and being like, Hey, I'm going to start putting
these there be a good call.
Oh man.
Well, this next one comes in from Ben dot Maddie over on Instagram.
And it reads, that is how you do a finale.
Layla is so cool with our new costume.
I'm going to need more of her.
Yup.
I think that's, I think Layla is, is the star of this episode
in terms of like excitement.
Yeah.
MVP.
It's so funny.
We always joke how we're we want to award in VP per episode.
And we always forget until the finale,
Jude: but I mean, uh, not just the show, Layla.
The series was fantastic, but more, yeah, more Layla.
It looks like
Trey: we just got one on Twitter.
This one comes in from fashion, Jimmy and it reads, I needed a little processing
time, but I really liked the finale.
I hope that we get more of the show and.
Yeah.
And that seems to fit in line with what we've been talking about.
Like liked it overall, some qualms, but wouldn't, wouldn't be upset
with more from a season two.
So yeah, that's going to do it for the listeners first
takes again, thank you so much.
Not only in this episode, but the entire season for reaching out
whenever we put the call out on social media, uh, it's always fun to
get, to hear what you all thought of the episode, but of course, that is
going to leave us for final thoughts.
So Jude predictions, stray thoughts, or things to consider moving forward
Jude: prediction.
We will get a season two at some point, uh, you know what I'm really, really
excited, uh, to see the, the assembled and something I really want to think
about was, and I don't remember if I heard this somewhere or read it or both.
The website, like I actually read it, um, anyways, uh, not having a
larger tie to the MCU, you know, any kind of cameos and things like
that outside of the astral plane.
Okay.
But the, what we, people, what we've grown to expect, the character cameos and stuff
like that, did that make this better?
Where that feeling of it's own unique thing.
And I, I don't remember if I was talking to somebody or read it somewhere, but,
but that the, the answer was, yes.
Um, so that's something I'm going to probably have to thought
I'll have to spend some time
Trey: with.
I definitely want to think about that.
And I think that might be something well worth discussing next week
on the wrap-up of Sabre JB.
That is, I think that's a very good thing to consider going into.
So the future of Moonlight, uh, my final thought, or I guess
my two prediction I'm with you.
I would be shocked if by the end of the month, we don't get a
season two confirmation because I remember Loki's was fairly quickly
confirmed, like the ending in tag.
So yeah, I feel comfortable putting it within the end of may.
We will see that Moonlight is going to get SQL thinking to consider.
I, I, I can't wait until we see Layla again.
I don't know where that'll be, where she'll pop up, but
I'm very excited for that.
Moving forward.
Jude: I'm going to disagree with you on hold on real quick
Trey: while you're looking at whatever you're looking up.
My reasoning being assembled documentaries usually come a week to three weeks after.
And I can't imagine the assemble Docker documentary, not mentioning something
about going into a second season.
Jude: Th the only thing that, and what I was looking up is the dates is it
feels like this is something that they will either do or announce at like San
Diego Comic-Con in July, especially if it's going to be in person, you know?
Cause it feels like, you know, I think they did virtual the past two years.
Definitely the COVID year, I think last year was virtual as well.
So if they get to go back in person, if I'm correct on that, it feels like
a San Diego comic con thing or in September at the D 23 expo, you know?
So that, that's the only reason why I wouldn't say may is, is I think that
I think they would wait, let have multi-verse and madness habits run.
Let Ms.
Marvel have.
For Thor, 11 thunder and then save it for a big expo con announcement.
Trey: Okay.
Well, it looks like we got ourselves a bet here in this episode, if it
happens before may or if they save it for San Diego or a convention
Jude: and you know what hit us up on social media, let us know when
you think, or we can expect this
Trey: announcement.
Well, speaking of social media, if you want to reach us, you can
always reach us at MC need to know both on Twitter and Instagram.
It's a great way to keep up with us and the things that we're doing
as well as help shape the show.
Jude: And between that time.
Well, if you, well, we won't have listened to first takes.
We can still get your voice on.
Be sure to scroll down to the bottom, check out the phone
number, leave a voicemail.
Um, so we can get your thoughts on the MCU moon night.
Something, what you're excited about coming up on the show.
Of course, click on the link, join the discord when you're there, make
sure you click on the role of sign and click on the emoji so you can
have access to spoiler channels.
The best thing you can do for us is to continue to expand our
universe by sharing with a friend.
Trey: Yeah.
We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song, which is
his rendition of the Avengers theme.
He can find more of his work in a SoundCloud, which is linked
in the show notes as well.
Well, that's going to do it.
Thank you so much for listening and Jude.
Thank you so much for doing this letter's Gators.
We'll see you all next week.
Jude: I am recording.
Yeah.
Recording to
Trey: get sucked up.
Jude: 1, 2, 3.
Trey: Andy's drinking.
So we were just talking about, you know, just some pre recording, planning to how
we were going to let the episode flow.
And I mentioned I was going to do two takes because we have a
potential, uh, last minute call.
What were you just telling me, dude?
Jude: Well, the, the last minute call was, was whether or not on the
four topics or three topics, right.
And the three or three most important topics are foremost important topics.
And the other day, when you made the switch and you said, I'm gonna
take a page out of your book.
Cause I liked what you did and you're going to read them out.
The only reason why I did that when TJ was on is in the moment
I thought that's what you did.
So I did a kind of like a panic of like, oh, what do I do right here?
Okay.
I think I read these, like, that's what it was going through my mind.
Trey: That's so funny because I remember when I finally listened to it that Monday,
I was like, oh, that's a really good idea.
I'm going to say, I don't know why.
I never thought to just read out what people can expect in this episode.
So we somehow came up with a great idea independently of each other, but together
Jude: that's funny how it works, right.