1 00:00:00,334 --> 00:00:05,750 < Intro > 2 00:00:05,750 --> 00:00:07,334 – Welcome back to Count Me In. 3 00:00:07,334 --> 00:00:08,650 I'm your host, Adam Larson, 4 00:00:08,650 --> 00:00:11,334 and today's episode is all about company culture. 5 00:00:11,834 --> 00:00:13,070 Our guest, Rick Watson, 6 00:00:13,070 --> 00:00:15,334 CEO of Protection Point Advisors, 7 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,100 founder of the National Referral Network, and an author, 8 00:00:18,100 --> 00:00:21,110 is a seasoned leader with a wealth of experiences. 9 00:00:21,110 --> 00:00:24,140 He discusses his journey from working with a large corporation 10 00:00:24,140 --> 00:00:25,340 to starting his own firm, 11 00:00:25,340 --> 00:00:27,430 and the challenges he faced along the way. 12 00:00:27,430 --> 00:00:29,840 We explore concepts like trust compression, 13 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,020 the importance of storytelling, and edification and empowering a team. 14 00:00:34,020 --> 00:00:36,950 With practical examples and real-world experiences, 15 00:00:36,950 --> 00:00:38,730 Rick provides valuable strategies, 16 00:00:38,730 --> 00:00:42,140 for creating a purpose-driven, successful organization. 17 00:00:42,140 --> 00:00:44,270 Get ready to be inspired and motivated, 18 00:00:44,270 --> 00:00:47,000 as we dive into the power of culture and leadership 19 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,000 in this insightful, engaging, conversation with Rick Watson. 20 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:56,667 < Music > 21 00:00:56,667 --> 00:00:59,680 Rick, I'm very excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast, 22 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,333 and excited to be talking about leadership, and just some of your journey, as well, 23 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:04,667 and what you've learned along the way. 24 00:01:04,667 --> 00:01:08,820 And, maybe, we can start off by what inspired you to start your own firm? 25 00:01:08,820 --> 00:01:10,220 It's not an easy task to do that. 26 00:01:10,220 --> 00:01:13,333 It's not something that people can do lightly. 27 00:01:13,333 --> 00:01:16,167 How did you assess your readiness for this entrepreneurial journey? 28 00:01:16,460 --> 00:01:21,189 – It's funny, I, actually, wanted to be tested. 29 00:01:21,189 --> 00:01:24,119 I wanted to be weighed and measured, that was true. 30 00:01:24,119 --> 00:01:27,970 And there was a point where I was working for a corporation, 31 00:01:27,970 --> 00:01:32,333 every year they would adjust my sales territory, and that drove me nutty. 32 00:01:32,333 --> 00:01:35,121 And, so, I would do well, and they would restrict it, 33 00:01:35,121 --> 00:01:36,641 if I didn't do as well, they'd increase it. 34 00:01:36,641 --> 00:01:37,333 It was really weird. 35 00:01:37,333 --> 00:01:39,260 They knew what they wanted to pay me. 36 00:01:39,260 --> 00:01:43,450 So I didn't start going down that road of starting my own firm. 37 00:01:43,450 --> 00:01:48,000 But I was happy to work with somebody else, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. 38 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,833 I worked with a partner for a long time, and I liked playing second fiddle 39 00:01:51,833 --> 00:01:54,910 because, then, I didn't have to have all the attention on me. 40 00:01:54,910 --> 00:01:57,333 I could actually just do the work. 41 00:01:57,333 --> 00:02:00,570 And there was a point where that partnership fell apart 42 00:02:00,570 --> 00:02:02,119 and I had to step up. 43 00:02:02,119 --> 00:02:04,740 And I really like being in charge today, 44 00:02:04,740 --> 00:02:06,380 I like being the CEO. 45 00:02:06,380 --> 00:02:10,259 But it was a transition that took a few years to get there. 46 00:02:10,259 --> 00:02:11,833 – I can only imagine the transition, 47 00:02:11,833 --> 00:02:14,080 especially, if you've always been a company person. 48 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,166 You've always not have to make all the decisions. 49 00:02:16,166 --> 00:02:17,379 There's a lot of weight that comes 50 00:02:17,379 --> 00:02:20,499 with having to make the top-level decision, the top-level strategy. 51 00:02:20,499 --> 00:02:22,999 How did you handle adjusting to that weight? 52 00:02:22,999 --> 00:02:23,959 – Yes, it's funny that you say that. 53 00:02:23,959 --> 00:02:27,833 So I always think of someone will be talking about their kid's school, 54 00:02:27,833 --> 00:02:31,499 and now their kid just graduated from whatever, and I'm paying for that. 55 00:02:31,499 --> 00:02:33,690 Well, I know that in the end analysis, 56 00:02:33,690 --> 00:02:38,333 it's our efforts, my decisions, that make that go badly or go well. 57 00:02:38,390 --> 00:02:41,666 And you're right, it's an absolute amount of weight all the time. 58 00:02:41,666 --> 00:02:44,730 On the other hand, I like taking care of people. 59 00:02:44,730 --> 00:02:49,333 And, so, you do that at home, you take care of your family. 60 00:02:49,333 --> 00:02:51,166 And, yes, I suppose it's more weight, 61 00:02:51,166 --> 00:02:54,499 it's more responsibility, those people depend on you. 62 00:02:54,530 --> 00:02:58,166 And, so, I just have a really big family, it seems like, anymore. 63 00:02:58,166 --> 00:03:02,666 – Yes, I like that, seeing them as your family because it's no longer just numbers 64 00:03:02,666 --> 00:03:05,832 or people who work for you or say, "Oh, I have this many people." 65 00:03:05,832 --> 00:03:07,530 It's like, "No, that person has a name. 66 00:03:07,530 --> 00:03:08,730 They have a family themselves, 67 00:03:08,730 --> 00:03:11,499 they have a life, as opposed, to just looking at the bottom line." 68 00:03:11,499 --> 00:03:14,332 – Yes, I think that there is a management school of thought 69 00:03:14,332 --> 00:03:17,166 that says that's a bad idea, I disagree. 70 00:03:17,166 --> 00:03:21,332 I think that loyalty and culture is part of a company, 71 00:03:21,332 --> 00:03:30,220 and that you don't have to turn over people all the time... 72 00:03:30,220 --> 00:03:34,150 I just think that there's a school of thought that you can turn over people, 73 00:03:34,150 --> 00:03:38,499 and I think that if you don't turn over people, they're so much more profitable. 74 00:03:38,499 --> 00:03:41,220 It's a good business decision to hold on to people, 75 00:03:41,220 --> 00:03:42,999 and part of that is to build culture 76 00:03:42,999 --> 00:03:45,499 and relationships with them. 77 00:03:45,832 --> 00:03:48,780 – No, that's great, and when you mentioned things like loyalty, 78 00:03:48,780 --> 00:03:50,459 it makes me think of trust. 79 00:03:50,459 --> 00:03:52,332 And one of the concepts you mentioned 80 00:03:52,332 --> 00:03:53,659 in your book, A Firm Worth Building, 81 00:03:53,659 --> 00:03:55,165 is trust compression. 82 00:03:55,165 --> 00:03:57,332 And when people hear that, they're like, "What does that mean? 83 00:03:57,332 --> 00:03:57,832 I don't get it." 84 00:03:57,832 --> 00:03:59,400 Unless they've read your book, they may not understand it. 85 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,489 So I was thinking maybe you could talk about what trust compression is, 86 00:04:02,489 --> 00:04:04,665 and how important it is in leadership. 87 00:04:04,999 --> 00:04:06,629 – The trust compression it's kind of funny, 88 00:04:06,629 --> 00:04:08,230 it's something that we bumped into. 89 00:04:08,230 --> 00:04:09,540 It wasn't on purpose. 90 00:04:09,540 --> 00:04:13,080 I think that there should be a university study about that. 91 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,380 But, effectively, what happens is that people, humans, 92 00:04:17,380 --> 00:04:20,430 don't make decisions about how much they trust somebody 93 00:04:20,430 --> 00:04:23,020 based on the length of their interactions. 94 00:04:23,020 --> 00:04:25,199 It's based on the number of interactions. 95 00:04:25,199 --> 00:04:28,270 And, so, doing those appointments, 96 00:04:28,270 --> 00:04:31,240 we were doing appointments, in my industry, the typical appointment 97 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,620 goes for 60 to 90 minutes. 98 00:04:33,620 --> 00:04:36,998 You do two of those, an opening appointment and a closing appointment. 99 00:04:36,998 --> 00:04:38,500 It turns out that if you break that 100 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:42,210 into four appointments, at 15 to 20 minutes apiece, 101 00:04:42,210 --> 00:04:44,380 which is way more efficient. 102 00:04:44,380 --> 00:04:48,665 Trust that you'll build in that relationship is so much more significant. 103 00:04:48,665 --> 00:04:50,832 And, so, what I'm telling businesses 104 00:04:50,832 --> 00:04:53,450 that we work with is that it's a really good idea. 105 00:04:53,450 --> 00:04:57,850 If you can break your process up into smaller, bite-sized bits, 106 00:04:57,850 --> 00:04:59,640 the people will remember more, 107 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,290 and your relationship will be older in a shorter amount of time. 108 00:05:04,290 --> 00:05:05,569 It's pretty cool. 109 00:05:05,569 --> 00:05:07,060 – That does sound pretty cool. 110 00:05:07,060 --> 00:05:09,850 One thing that I tried doing was setting my default, in Outlook, 111 00:05:09,850 --> 00:05:11,570 to 25 minutes and 50 minutes. 112 00:05:11,570 --> 00:05:13,490 Never doing a full hour and never doing a half hour. 113 00:05:13,490 --> 00:05:15,960 Because I felt like we would go up until that time, 114 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:17,169 gave ourselves no time for break, 115 00:05:17,169 --> 00:05:20,300 but, then, also we'd spend too much time doing other things. 116 00:05:20,300 --> 00:05:22,900 How do you still get as so much accomplished 117 00:05:22,900 --> 00:05:24,665 by breaking those meetings up? 118 00:05:24,665 --> 00:05:27,680 How does that, positively, impact the conversation? 119 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,498 – Each one of those conversations is, 120 00:05:29,498 --> 00:05:33,165 in a sense, scripted, we know where we're at. 121 00:05:33,669 --> 00:05:38,039 I think that so much of business conversations are wasted energy. 122 00:05:38,039 --> 00:05:41,650 They do the relating, which we would call relating, I talk about it in the book. 123 00:05:41,650 --> 00:05:43,880 Which is that first part of like, "Oh, how was the game? 124 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,370 How was your kids?" 125 00:05:45,370 --> 00:05:48,590 It's bringing down the tension in the room. 126 00:05:48,590 --> 00:05:52,120 We do that, consciously, but it takes five to 10 minutes, 127 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,498 it does not take whatever. 128 00:05:55,498 --> 00:05:56,998 I see people will do it for an hour, 129 00:05:56,998 --> 00:06:00,140 and they really are slowing down their conversation. 130 00:06:00,140 --> 00:06:04,560 So we're trying to get from point A to point B, or waypoints. 131 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,740 So what we effectively do is break the conversation up into bits. 132 00:06:08,740 --> 00:06:11,560 Where you know what part you're supposed to get to, 133 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,449 and then it goes pretty easily when you do it that way. 134 00:06:14,449 --> 00:06:18,949 Because I know that today my job is to take you from this point to this point, 135 00:06:18,949 --> 00:06:20,530 and as soon as we're there, I'm done. 136 00:06:20,530 --> 00:06:21,670 I'm like, "That's great." 137 00:06:21,670 --> 00:06:22,498 Let's go ahead and schedule. 138 00:06:22,498 --> 00:06:25,310 I think one of the tricks of this, though, is to schedule 139 00:06:25,310 --> 00:06:27,720 those conversations really close together, 140 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,650 so every couple of days. 141 00:06:30,650 --> 00:06:34,590 So it's weird, again, instead, of the traditionally, you'd talk to somebody, 142 00:06:34,590 --> 00:06:36,740 spend an hour and a half with them, 143 00:06:36,740 --> 00:06:39,831 and, then, come back and see them in two weeks or three weeks. 144 00:06:39,831 --> 00:06:41,790 Well, they've forgotten half of what you've said. 145 00:06:41,790 --> 00:06:44,800 So if you break it into short little conversations, 146 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,039 and we're going to go, "I want you to digest that, 147 00:06:47,039 --> 00:06:49,400 and let's just talk in two or three days." 148 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:54,940 Then in two or three days we'll work through that and it really works well, 149 00:06:54,940 --> 00:06:57,150 they can build upon that, and they remember more. 150 00:06:57,164 --> 00:06:58,449 – Yes, that sounds like it. 151 00:06:58,449 --> 00:07:00,690 But what about if you're facing challenges or setbacks 152 00:07:00,690 --> 00:07:02,100 within your business? 153 00:07:02,100 --> 00:07:04,830 Can you still utilize this concept of trust compression 154 00:07:04,830 --> 00:07:07,997 to maintain your team morale, and client confidence, and things like that? 155 00:07:08,164 --> 00:07:11,831 – Yes, I think trust compression, the way it's supposed to be used 156 00:07:11,831 --> 00:07:16,840 is when you're bringing somebody on new, who doesn't already trust you. 157 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:21,830 So where it doesn't get used is a place where you try to take somebody, 158 00:07:21,830 --> 00:07:24,164 who is an existing relationship, 159 00:07:24,164 --> 00:07:27,150 I have staff who's been with me for two years. 160 00:07:27,150 --> 00:07:31,830 I'm not doing trust compression with them, it's already happened, theoretically. 161 00:07:31,830 --> 00:07:34,020 Although I think those little events, 162 00:07:34,020 --> 00:07:37,200 little things to build the office, to create bonds, 163 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,664 we do ice-cream-for-lunch days. 164 00:07:39,664 --> 00:07:45,720 I think that little things like that, doesn't cost a lot of money, it's the same idea, 165 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,230 you're building relationship consciously. 166 00:07:48,230 --> 00:07:50,664 I think so many firms don't do that. 167 00:07:50,664 --> 00:07:53,497 But, yes, if you have bad news, and it takes a long or whatever, 168 00:07:53,539 --> 00:07:55,009 if you have a complicated subject, 169 00:07:55,009 --> 00:07:57,729 you guys might need to do that in a staff meeting, 170 00:07:57,729 --> 00:08:03,879 where it goes in one long session, I should say. 171 00:08:03,879 --> 00:08:06,330 One thing I'm thinking about that we do in our meetings 172 00:08:06,330 --> 00:08:09,470 that I think is really helpful, is no matter what the subject, 173 00:08:09,470 --> 00:08:14,229 good or bad, we start with a human element to that conversation. 174 00:08:14,229 --> 00:08:18,400 So we always start out with like, "Let's spend the first five or 10 minutes, 175 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,663 and tell me about something that's going on interesting in your life." 176 00:08:21,663 --> 00:08:25,663 The reason is because it brings the conversation back to human. 177 00:08:25,663 --> 00:08:29,870 Otherwise, sometimes, we see each other as tools to an end, 178 00:08:29,870 --> 00:08:33,530 and we need to remember that they're actually people with lives, 179 00:08:33,530 --> 00:08:35,320 and hopes, and all that stuff. 180 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,663 And, so, we'll do things like thorns and roses. 181 00:08:38,663 --> 00:08:40,900 Give me one wonderful thing that's happened to you, 182 00:08:40,900 --> 00:08:43,520 30 seconds, something wonderful that happened to you this week, 183 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,190 something awful that happened. 184 00:08:46,190 --> 00:08:49,440 And we'll go through the room, even when we have 10 people in the room, 185 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,496 we still do that, right in the beginning. 186 00:08:52,496 --> 00:08:55,163 – Wow, I love that concept of bringing it back to a human moment. 187 00:08:55,209 --> 00:08:58,496 Because with the way industries are going, with the way the markets are, 188 00:08:58,496 --> 00:09:01,996 people are really stressed right now, and they're feeling the pinch. 189 00:09:01,996 --> 00:09:04,496 Companies are downsizing but, then, you're still having to do 190 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:07,330 the same amount of work, and you're feeling that tension. 191 00:09:07,330 --> 00:09:12,496 And allowing that space for people to feel human, even during the workday, 192 00:09:12,496 --> 00:09:14,663 can improve morale greatly, I would think. 193 00:09:14,663 --> 00:09:18,330 – Yes, well, I think what it does is build bonds, little bonds. 194 00:09:18,330 --> 00:09:20,890 And it's like Velcro, it's not one of those that work, 195 00:09:20,890 --> 00:09:25,330 it's all the cumulative effect of all those little bonds, 196 00:09:25,330 --> 00:09:28,829 and it's something so easy and free to do. 197 00:09:28,829 --> 00:09:31,480 One of the things that I find in accounting firms, 198 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,829 it's not just accounting, to be honest with you, it's any small professional firms, 199 00:09:35,930 --> 00:09:39,190 is that they tend to run like little fiefdoms. 200 00:09:39,190 --> 00:09:41,329 They don't spend enough energy 201 00:09:41,329 --> 00:09:45,180 focusing on actually running the business well, building culture. 202 00:09:45,180 --> 00:09:47,329 Being intentional about how we run 203 00:09:47,329 --> 00:09:50,663 and build the business, it's sort of more ad hoc. 204 00:09:50,663 --> 00:09:54,163 "I need to get my work done, and you're a tool for me to get my work done." 205 00:09:54,163 --> 00:09:55,760 And, so, that comes across. 206 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,270 We need to change that dynamic 207 00:09:57,270 --> 00:10:00,380 or else it doesn't work as well, in the long term, 208 00:10:00,380 --> 00:10:02,329 and it's why those firms stay small. 209 00:10:02,329 --> 00:10:06,270 – Mh-hmm, so maybe we can dive into that a little bit. 210 00:10:06,270 --> 00:10:08,800 What are some steps you would take to start changing that dynamic, 211 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,163 if you were in a firm like that or running a firm? 212 00:10:11,329 --> 00:10:15,290 – So I think the first thing that has to happen is the person in charge 213 00:10:15,290 --> 00:10:17,470 or the team, however it is, they have to figure out 214 00:10:17,470 --> 00:10:19,200 where they actually want to go. 215 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,279 How they want to scale their firm and grow it, 216 00:10:22,279 --> 00:10:24,162 and that starts with a value proposition. 217 00:10:24,162 --> 00:10:25,662 "Are we just a proposition? 218 00:10:25,662 --> 00:10:29,740 Are we just an accounting firm that does taxes, for example, 219 00:10:29,740 --> 00:10:34,996 or are we doing something that's meaningful and special? 220 00:10:34,996 --> 00:10:38,190 What do we do that is our sort of superpower?" 221 00:10:38,190 --> 00:10:39,420 And then you figure that out, 222 00:10:39,420 --> 00:10:43,162 and you almost sell it like a religion to your staff, they believe in it. 223 00:10:43,290 --> 00:10:47,329 They believe in this mission that you're creating. 224 00:10:47,329 --> 00:10:49,662 "We do taxes faster than everybody else." 225 00:10:49,662 --> 00:10:53,329 "We do taxes better than everybody else." 226 00:10:53,329 --> 00:10:58,870 You've got to make your thing so you're not a commodity. 227 00:10:58,870 --> 00:11:03,329 The place I think it's a great place to start is what do you hate about your industry? 228 00:11:03,329 --> 00:11:06,950 Like, what does it just gripe you when people do it like that? 229 00:11:06,950 --> 00:11:10,329 Because that's the center of what you believe in. 230 00:11:10,329 --> 00:11:12,690 And, so, I don't think it's just an act. 231 00:11:12,690 --> 00:11:16,579 I think you sell that religion, in a sense, to employees 232 00:11:16,579 --> 00:11:19,639 because you believe it down to your core, 233 00:11:19,639 --> 00:11:21,162 and that's a meaningful business 234 00:11:21,162 --> 00:11:25,662 that can grow, and there's no reason to limit its growth, at that point. 235 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,190 You want to spread the message, the gospel, so to speak, of your idea, 236 00:11:30,190 --> 00:11:31,995 your concept, your approach. 237 00:11:31,995 --> 00:11:39,250 And, so, you do that, you create mechanisms to help you scale this idea. 238 00:11:39,250 --> 00:11:41,270 So many accountants, what they do is they'll say, 239 00:11:41,270 --> 00:11:43,162 and this is what I've heard 100 times, 240 00:11:43,162 --> 00:11:44,670 "Yes, I only want to grow to a certain point, 241 00:11:44,670 --> 00:11:47,662 I've got to get rid of a third of my clients this year." 242 00:11:47,662 --> 00:11:50,899 It happens all the time because they don't want to grow. 243 00:11:50,899 --> 00:11:55,779 Because they see business growth as an impediment to the freedom in their life, 244 00:11:55,779 --> 00:11:58,230 and the opposite is actually true. 245 00:11:58,230 --> 00:12:04,328 That your life gets more free the more you scale this purposeful idea. 246 00:12:04,328 --> 00:12:08,662 It's very counterintuitive, but it's a common problem I see in the industry. 247 00:12:08,662 --> 00:12:11,662 – As we talk about this, it made me think of sometimes you hear 248 00:12:11,662 --> 00:12:14,370 from the top of an organization, "We've got this great idea." 249 00:12:14,370 --> 00:12:16,459 Kind of like you're saying, you're selling it as a religion, 250 00:12:16,459 --> 00:12:18,889 but when you trickle down to the people doing, 251 00:12:18,889 --> 00:12:21,940 maybe, grunt work, people doing lower level work. 252 00:12:21,940 --> 00:12:23,900 People, even the middle managers, 253 00:12:23,900 --> 00:12:25,589 trying to help lead the team, 254 00:12:25,589 --> 00:12:28,661 and the bottom line is very much in their mind, 255 00:12:28,661 --> 00:12:30,870 especially, for KPIs, and those things. 256 00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:34,570 How do you balance this idea versus the actual work you're doing, 257 00:12:34,570 --> 00:12:35,995 to make it applicable? 258 00:12:36,328 --> 00:12:38,495 – So, first, there's a lot of things, 259 00:12:38,495 --> 00:12:41,161 you keep touching on all the little chapters of the book. 260 00:12:41,161 --> 00:12:43,850 I will say that who you hire matters. 261 00:12:43,850 --> 00:12:46,820 If they don't believe in your religion, 262 00:12:46,820 --> 00:12:49,760 don't hire them, and I use the religion softly, 263 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,680 so I'm really talking about your purpose. 264 00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:53,730 They need to buy into your purpose. 265 00:12:53,730 --> 00:12:56,470 And if you have somebody who doesn't buy into that idea, 266 00:12:56,470 --> 00:13:01,700 it is in your interest to find a way to let them exit the company. 267 00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:05,500 Which is hard to do, by the way, because sometimes they're stars. 268 00:13:05,500 --> 00:13:06,500 So that's part of it. 269 00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:11,494 I think, you believing it, really believing it, not just saying, "We believe something". 270 00:13:11,589 --> 00:13:14,661 Because I think employees are like children, in the sense that 271 00:13:14,661 --> 00:13:17,769 they can sense when you're lying to them. 272 00:13:17,769 --> 00:13:20,540 When your actions don't match your deeds. 273 00:13:20,540 --> 00:13:22,199 So assuming that those were in alignment 274 00:13:22,199 --> 00:13:24,161 and you had the right people, 275 00:13:24,161 --> 00:13:27,661 then, I think involving them in the story; "What's happening?" 276 00:13:27,661 --> 00:13:31,160 "How we're achieving this purpose?" 277 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,070 We do a meeting every other week that talks about our purpose, 278 00:13:35,070 --> 00:13:36,260 where we're going. 279 00:13:36,260 --> 00:13:40,828 We start with who's human, so this human sort of aspect of it. 280 00:13:40,828 --> 00:13:46,390 We have people who are remote and local, and it binds the team together. 281 00:13:46,390 --> 00:13:48,494 And then we talk about how we're trying to get to our goals, 282 00:13:48,494 --> 00:13:50,494 and I think that's also super important. 283 00:13:50,494 --> 00:13:54,494 There's so much that goes into this, it's a big question. 284 00:13:54,661 --> 00:13:55,827 – No, it is a big question, 285 00:13:55,827 --> 00:13:59,029 and I know that you could have full conversations just on that one question, 286 00:13:59,029 --> 00:13:59,827 I just asked. 287 00:13:59,827 --> 00:14:02,494 But it's one of those things that people are constantly looking at, 288 00:14:02,494 --> 00:14:06,161 and I think a lot of times we have high-level conversations about things. 289 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:08,019 But a lot of times people forget about the people 290 00:14:08,019 --> 00:14:10,510 who are actually doing some of the work that's harder, 291 00:14:10,510 --> 00:14:11,510 people on the front lines. 292 00:14:11,510 --> 00:14:12,750 A lot of times you forget about the people 293 00:14:12,750 --> 00:14:14,000 on the front lines, doing the work. 294 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,440 And how do you trickle that down to them 295 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,680 to make sure that everybody is in line, 296 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,970 and it's not an easy task ever to do, like you had mentioned. 297 00:14:21,970 --> 00:14:24,070 – Yes, well, they have to have buy in. 298 00:14:24,070 --> 00:14:27,940 So I think the problem with running your practice like a fiefdom 299 00:14:27,940 --> 00:14:30,850 is that it's all coming from you down, 300 00:14:30,850 --> 00:14:33,180 and they have very little control. 301 00:14:33,180 --> 00:14:34,440 But when you run it differently, 302 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,589 you run it based on a sense of purpose, 303 00:14:36,589 --> 00:14:38,820 then, it goes the other way. 304 00:14:38,820 --> 00:14:42,990 They'll tell you when you're outside of tolerance. 305 00:14:42,990 --> 00:14:45,040 You should have a staff person 306 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:46,130 who should be able to walk 307 00:14:46,130 --> 00:14:49,769 into your office and say, "I don't like how you treated that person, 308 00:14:49,769 --> 00:14:51,220 and here's why." 309 00:14:51,220 --> 00:14:53,269 And rather than that being a negative, 310 00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:55,880 that's a huge positive, you had somebody stand up. 311 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,630 I want my people to tell me when I'm wrong 312 00:14:57,630 --> 00:15:00,327 because it's hard to see what's happening. 313 00:15:00,327 --> 00:15:02,160 I need that feedback loop. 314 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,327 – Yes, it's almost like you need to have those. 315 00:15:04,327 --> 00:15:07,149 I think there's a book out there that's about the fierce conversations. 316 00:15:07,149 --> 00:15:10,170 You need to have the openness to have those fierce conversations. 317 00:15:10,170 --> 00:15:11,494 Where you're not attacking anybody, 318 00:15:11,494 --> 00:15:13,810 you're just saying, "Hey, I'm keeping you accountable 319 00:15:13,810 --> 00:15:15,300 because we all need to be kept accountable." 320 00:15:15,327 --> 00:15:20,160 – Yes, I think that pushback is important and I value that we have it, fortunately. 321 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,260 – That's amazing, and, so, another concept that I wanted to touch on, 322 00:15:24,260 --> 00:15:26,830 that you talk about in your book, is edification. 323 00:15:26,830 --> 00:15:29,993 And how do you use edification to empower your team members? 324 00:15:30,149 --> 00:15:33,120 – So edification can be used in two ways. 325 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,839 It's outside; so other professionals. 326 00:15:35,839 --> 00:15:37,493 How do you introduce another professional? 327 00:15:37,493 --> 00:15:42,660 If you say, "Hey, I've got a financial advisor I want to introduce you to" potentialy. 328 00:15:42,690 --> 00:15:44,993 Do you say, "Financial advisor, here you go." 329 00:15:44,993 --> 00:15:47,493 That's great, you've just commoditized them. 330 00:15:47,493 --> 00:15:51,327 It'd be like me saying, "Hey, I've got an accountant I want you to talk to." 331 00:15:51,327 --> 00:15:52,889 "Well, that's great, thank you." 332 00:15:52,889 --> 00:15:54,160 That's a wonderful... No. 333 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,827 Edification would be to say, "Let me tell you about this accountant." 334 00:15:57,827 --> 00:16:02,490 Tell 'em a story like, "He's such a great guy, we've known him forever, 335 00:16:02,490 --> 00:16:05,160 and he's just done such great work with my clients. 336 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,660 His funny, little side note..." 337 00:16:06,660 --> 00:16:10,160 And then you tell a story about him, like "He's into horseback riding." 338 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,993 Whatever that funny little thing is. 339 00:16:11,993 --> 00:16:15,110 All right, now, that thing is something. 340 00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:17,010 It's not just a generic thing, 341 00:16:17,010 --> 00:16:19,279 it's something, something for them to attach it to. 342 00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:23,993 When we bought our house, the realtor said, and it's kind of an odd analogy, 343 00:16:23,993 --> 00:16:26,993 but the realtor said, "It's great if you can give every house 344 00:16:26,993 --> 00:16:28,449 that we look at a name, 345 00:16:28,449 --> 00:16:31,490 so that we can keep track of which one we're talking about." 346 00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:33,660 Well, that's all we're doing with people. 347 00:16:33,660 --> 00:16:35,830 Let's tell a little story, or a little name, 348 00:16:35,830 --> 00:16:38,410 or something odd about that that I can remember. 349 00:16:38,410 --> 00:16:39,993 "He's got a funny little dog." 350 00:16:39,993 --> 00:16:41,493 "Oh, yes, I remember that guy." 351 00:16:41,493 --> 00:16:45,330 All right, so that's one element of edification. 352 00:16:45,330 --> 00:16:50,070 How do you introduce other professionals to your clients? 353 00:16:50,070 --> 00:16:51,720 Because if you're not doing that, 354 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,009 you're missing the boat. 355 00:16:54,009 --> 00:16:55,720 What clients want today is teams. 356 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,410 They don't want individuals. 357 00:16:57,410 --> 00:17:00,159 So you want a team? I can solve six problems. 358 00:17:00,190 --> 00:17:02,240 I can't just do your taxes; 359 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,049 I can do your taxes, your estate planning, so it's that side of it. 360 00:17:06,049 --> 00:17:10,630 The second element of edification is edifying your staff. 361 00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:14,760 So if you're complaining about the fact that you have to do all the work. 362 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,659 The pressure of this business is killing you, and it's so much work on you, 363 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,659 it's because you're not edifying the people around you. 364 00:17:21,659 --> 00:17:24,826 You want to not be the smartest person in the room. 365 00:17:24,826 --> 00:17:28,400 In fact, a great way to say it is, "Look, I'm an amazing accountant, 366 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,326 but without my team, I'm nothing. 367 00:17:31,326 --> 00:17:35,826 I mean, if you want to get this done or this done, don't call me, call them 368 00:17:35,826 --> 00:17:37,421 because they're way better at it." 369 00:17:37,421 --> 00:17:39,659 And then tell a little story about them. 370 00:17:39,659 --> 00:17:43,826 One of the stories that I tell, all the time, it's a stupid little story. 371 00:17:43,890 --> 00:17:47,050 But I'll say, "You know what I think so cool about when we hire people 372 00:17:47,050 --> 00:17:51,159 is we hire just amazing people. 373 00:17:51,159 --> 00:17:55,010 They work in the best interests of our clients, not because I told them to, 374 00:17:55,010 --> 00:17:57,340 but because it's who they are, at their core. 375 00:17:57,340 --> 00:17:59,190 And you could give them a million dollars, 376 00:17:59,190 --> 00:18:02,929 and put it in a suitcase, and give it to them, come back two years later, 377 00:18:02,929 --> 00:18:05,919 and it would all be there because that's just who they are." 378 00:18:05,919 --> 00:18:09,760 Well, how excited are you now to be introduced to a staff person 379 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,270 and them to go, "Great, I've got this person I'm working with." 380 00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:16,570 So I think that edification of the people around you, 381 00:18:16,570 --> 00:18:17,840 makes you not the smartest person 382 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,825 in the room, which helps a lot. 383 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:23,325 – I think it also makes people appeal to the human, 384 00:18:23,325 --> 00:18:24,890 and we've been talking about this, human side. 385 00:18:24,890 --> 00:18:29,159 Where if you show kindness to another person, it automatically disarms them. 386 00:18:29,159 --> 00:18:31,460 And there's that old adage, "Kill them with kindness." 387 00:18:31,460 --> 00:18:33,600 When you're referring to somebody who's being mean to you. 388 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,825 But it's also you can just be kind and show that edification 389 00:18:37,825 --> 00:18:42,492 to people that you meet, and it automatically lightens the room, as well. 390 00:18:42,492 --> 00:18:46,159 – I think so; one of the biggest problems 391 00:18:46,159 --> 00:18:50,110 that the industry has is trying to be the smartest person in the room. 392 00:18:50,110 --> 00:18:54,169 And the reason is it's not because you are the smartest person in the room, 393 00:18:54,169 --> 00:18:55,169 it's because of fear. 394 00:18:55,169 --> 00:18:58,010 "I'm afraid that they're going to see that I'm not." 395 00:18:58,010 --> 00:18:59,820 So what I do is I puff my chest up 396 00:18:59,820 --> 00:19:03,658 and it's all about client control, they're afraid of doing this client control. 397 00:19:03,690 --> 00:19:05,800 One of the reasons, another one of my companies, 398 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,010 which is The National Referral Network, 399 00:19:09,010 --> 00:19:10,760 it makes this little sandbox 400 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,030 where multiple professionals, of different disciplines, 401 00:19:14,030 --> 00:19:16,492 can play in the same area. 402 00:19:16,492 --> 00:19:18,940 They can work with a client and not be afraid. 403 00:19:18,940 --> 00:19:22,120 If I'm not teaching edification to the accountant, 404 00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:27,120 so that they don't try to take away client control from the financial advisor 405 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:29,992 or from the attorney, they need to all be able to share that. 406 00:19:30,140 --> 00:19:33,825 And the way they do is by lifting each other up, constantly, 407 00:19:33,825 --> 00:19:36,549 and it makes them all stronger, that's the irony. 408 00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:41,650 It's the opposite of cutting down your competition in the middle of... 409 00:19:41,650 --> 00:19:45,658 If you cut your competition down, it makes yourself look weaker, not stronger. 410 00:19:45,658 --> 00:19:48,325 – Mh-hmm, someone should tell that to the politicians. 411 00:19:48,325 --> 00:19:52,158 But that's a whole 'nother conversation. 412 00:19:52,158 --> 00:19:55,330 I mean, one thing I've always read, when it comes to leadership, 413 00:19:55,330 --> 00:19:57,500 is you want to bring up the people 414 00:19:57,500 --> 00:20:00,490 who are around you, and bring them up because then it raises you up. 415 00:20:00,490 --> 00:20:03,370 Because you're helping empower them to become better, 416 00:20:03,370 --> 00:20:04,370 which makes you better. 417 00:20:04,370 --> 00:20:07,158 Which in turn prepares you for whatever you have next. 418 00:20:07,325 --> 00:20:09,325 – It's also a way to be able to delegate. 419 00:20:09,325 --> 00:20:12,010 I mean, if I built the people up around me. 420 00:20:12,010 --> 00:20:14,340 Then if I pass you over to somebody else, 421 00:20:14,340 --> 00:20:17,991 they're not going to somebody weaker, they're going to somebody stronger. 422 00:20:18,030 --> 00:20:21,429 And everybody's going to say, "That's great, yes, sign me up for that." 423 00:20:21,429 --> 00:20:22,991 Nobody wants the worst end of the deal. 424 00:20:22,991 --> 00:20:24,824 They want the best end of the deal. 425 00:20:24,824 --> 00:20:27,658 So, yes, it works with clients, it works inside of your staff, 426 00:20:27,658 --> 00:20:29,440 and it works within professional networks. 427 00:20:29,491 --> 00:20:33,990 – Mh-hmm, so how do you ensure that this edification is a key part 428 00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:35,550 of your team's interactions. 429 00:20:35,550 --> 00:20:38,360 You've mentioned hiring the right people. 430 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:40,158 What if you've already have a bunch of people hired. 431 00:20:40,158 --> 00:20:42,239 Can you teach that to people? 432 00:20:42,239 --> 00:20:44,824 – Absolutely, we teach it constantly. 433 00:20:44,824 --> 00:20:49,650 So one of the things we have, and it's in the book, about client success manuals, 434 00:20:49,650 --> 00:20:55,110 and employee success manuals. 435 00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:56,929 Most of those manuals, that people put together, 436 00:20:56,929 --> 00:20:59,140 are legal things to keep them from getting sued. 437 00:20:59,140 --> 00:21:00,660 "I told you not to do that." 438 00:21:00,660 --> 00:21:03,950 No, and we teach classes, constantly, 439 00:21:03,950 --> 00:21:07,200 on the things that we care about, so, yes, edification. 440 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,824 You could ask any member on my staff and they absolutely know what's done. 441 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,480 It's like with parents, again, parent and child relationship is very similar. 442 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,080 It's what behaviors do you model and do you reinforce, 443 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,010 so that your kids grow up, and they end up away, 444 00:21:23,010 --> 00:21:26,500 whatever you wanted them to be, but you modeled those behaviors, 445 00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:28,530 and then you encouraged those behaviors in them. 446 00:21:28,530 --> 00:21:29,640 You taught them. 447 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,657 It's the same thing with employees, and if somebody's not tracking, 448 00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:39,824 get rid of them because it will save you so much time, and money, and energy. 449 00:21:39,824 --> 00:21:42,170 You don't want poison in the system, 450 00:21:42,170 --> 00:21:44,991 and we purposely are pulling poison out of the system. 451 00:21:45,157 --> 00:21:47,049 – Do you maybe have any examples that you can share, 452 00:21:47,049 --> 00:21:50,850 of where your team has been able to innovate and contribute to the success, 453 00:21:50,850 --> 00:21:53,279 by using the practices we've been talking about? 454 00:21:53,324 --> 00:21:57,657 – So one of the things that I can think of is, yes, lots of them. 455 00:21:57,657 --> 00:22:02,920 First of all, one of our mottos in our company is "We build what should exist". 456 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:08,157 So we have a financial planning firm, and a referral firm, and a real estate fund. 457 00:22:08,220 --> 00:22:10,159 And, again, they all operate on this; 458 00:22:10,159 --> 00:22:11,429 "We build what should exist." 459 00:22:11,429 --> 00:22:13,710 We go where the market should exist. 460 00:22:13,710 --> 00:22:18,789 So it's weird because we don't say we do taxes. 461 00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:20,990 We talk about bigger things. 462 00:22:20,990 --> 00:22:24,657 I think that's the first step is starting, in that regard. 463 00:22:24,657 --> 00:22:27,840 And, I'm sorry, I lost the thread of your question there. 464 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,450 – It's okay, I was talking about any examples you have, 465 00:22:30,450 --> 00:22:35,690 of people applying this and it's showing success in your organization. 466 00:22:35,690 --> 00:22:39,850 – So because we innovate, people are always throwing out ideas 467 00:22:39,850 --> 00:22:43,157 as how to get there, and that's been a pretty strong piece. 468 00:22:43,157 --> 00:22:44,157 I'm trying to think of an example, 469 00:22:44,157 --> 00:22:47,299 a specific example, other than the fact that we've grown 470 00:22:47,299 --> 00:22:50,740 a financial investment firm to a half a billion dollars, 471 00:22:50,740 --> 00:22:53,600 from about $20 in my checking. 472 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:58,270 So I would say that's a pretty good indication that it seems to work, 473 00:22:58,270 --> 00:23:01,040 and we're recruiting advisors, right now, like crazy. 474 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,670 So I think that also people are recognizing that story, 475 00:23:05,670 --> 00:23:08,539 and that value proposition, and wanting to be part of it. 476 00:23:08,539 --> 00:23:11,980 – Yes, when people recognize it, they see the value, and then they tell 477 00:23:11,980 --> 00:23:15,580 their friends, "Hey, you want to do this X, Y, and Z service, 478 00:23:15,580 --> 00:23:18,323 you should check out this company because this is the experience I have." 479 00:23:18,330 --> 00:23:22,279 And it creates that natural flow between parties, 480 00:23:22,279 --> 00:23:26,019 and potential clients and potential people wanting to work for you. 481 00:23:26,019 --> 00:23:29,080 – That sense of purpose that I was talking about earlier, 482 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:34,159 I think that's part of what you're selling in a story. 483 00:23:34,159 --> 00:23:37,156 It's funny because I was thinking of an advisor 484 00:23:37,156 --> 00:23:38,429 that we were bringing into our firm. 485 00:23:38,429 --> 00:23:39,429 But it wouldn't be that different 486 00:23:39,429 --> 00:23:41,850 from another professional you're bringing into your firm. 487 00:23:41,850 --> 00:23:44,570 What story do you tell them that makes you guys different? 488 00:23:44,570 --> 00:23:47,490 And is that going to suck them into your firm? 489 00:23:47,490 --> 00:23:51,409 Do they really want to be part of it because of that? 490 00:23:51,409 --> 00:23:54,490 And the extension of that is just that manual. 491 00:23:54,490 --> 00:23:57,340 Somebody in a meeting, recently, he doesn't even work for us, 492 00:23:57,340 --> 00:24:00,323 but he's looking at us, and he was just going on about, 493 00:24:00,323 --> 00:24:02,010 "This is the most amazing firm 494 00:24:02,010 --> 00:24:05,419 I've ever come across, and, boy, if you can have that." 495 00:24:05,419 --> 00:24:11,240 So we train our ideas for people who don't work for us, 496 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,270 and it's really a recruiting mechanism, at the end of the day. 497 00:24:14,270 --> 00:24:16,323 So we want them to get excited. 498 00:24:16,323 --> 00:24:17,920 And, then, you have one of them, 499 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,430 in a meeting, get excited and start talking about it. 500 00:24:20,430 --> 00:24:23,000 What they do is it creates enthusiasm in the other people, 501 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,520 who are also considering us. 502 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,323 – Mh-hmm, now, do you think it'd be beneficial for any professionals, 503 00:24:28,323 --> 00:24:31,150 who are listening to this, they may not be in the same industry or anything like that. 504 00:24:31,150 --> 00:24:33,010 But they're saying, "I want to apply these concepts." 505 00:24:33,010 --> 00:24:35,890 How important it is to learn how to be a better storyteller, 506 00:24:35,890 --> 00:24:37,823 when you're creating these interactions? 507 00:24:37,823 --> 00:24:41,219 – Yes, 100%, so we do classes on storytelling. 508 00:24:41,219 --> 00:24:43,156 – Oh, okay. – Yes, I mean, 509 00:24:43,156 --> 00:24:47,332 literally, last week, that was the class that I did. 510 00:24:47,332 --> 00:24:51,989 I think I had 15 people, on the class, in a Zoom meeting, on storytelling. 511 00:24:51,989 --> 00:24:53,919 So, yes, storytelling is super important. 512 00:24:53,919 --> 00:24:58,010 It's important for clients because if you tell a good story, 513 00:24:58,010 --> 00:25:01,610 what happens is it's like a string, and you can lead somebody, 514 00:25:01,610 --> 00:25:04,822 almost, anywhere as long as they know where that string is going to lead. 515 00:25:04,970 --> 00:25:06,822 – Yes, exactly. – So the story 516 00:25:06,970 --> 00:25:07,970 is what does that. 517 00:25:07,970 --> 00:25:11,870 But without the story, the story is that sense of purpose, 518 00:25:11,870 --> 00:25:13,371 it's not just telling them what the purpose is. 519 00:25:13,371 --> 00:25:16,450 It's telling them the story of how that purpose got created, 520 00:25:16,450 --> 00:25:18,159 then they buy into it. 521 00:25:18,159 --> 00:25:19,520 They say, "Stories tell..." 522 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,156 And I can't remember that story- 523 00:25:22,156 --> 00:25:23,720 – That's okay, I've heard the quote before, 524 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,690 but I can't seem to finish it either, at the moment. 525 00:25:25,690 --> 00:25:28,070 But I think you got across what you were trying to say, 526 00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:29,659 it's how important it is. 527 00:25:29,659 --> 00:25:32,080 Because what a story does is it grabs your attention. 528 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,159 It pulls you in. 529 00:25:33,159 --> 00:25:35,750 I mean, the best books, the best movies, 530 00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:39,580 the best things that you're listening to, if you're grabbed in. 531 00:25:39,580 --> 00:25:41,140 My dad will sit there, at a bookstore, 532 00:25:41,140 --> 00:25:42,489 and read the first chapter. 533 00:25:42,489 --> 00:25:45,570 If it pulls him in, he's either putting it on a list or buying it 534 00:25:45,570 --> 00:25:47,822 or getting it from the library, the next day. 535 00:25:47,822 --> 00:25:50,970 It's that same kind of concept for just interactions with folks. 536 00:25:50,970 --> 00:25:53,870 If you're able to tell the right story and grab people in. 537 00:25:53,870 --> 00:25:56,529 And, so, like you said, when somebody's coming onto your team. 538 00:25:56,529 --> 00:25:59,655 If you can tell the right story, it'll grab them in and have them, 539 00:25:59,655 --> 00:26:02,822 part of the quote-unquote, "Religion" that we've been talking about. 540 00:26:02,822 --> 00:26:07,220 – And the opposite is also true, so that's why we were doing this class. 541 00:26:07,220 --> 00:26:10,989 Because I listened to one of my people tell a story poorly. 542 00:26:10,989 --> 00:26:14,822 And I'm like, "You have so many extraneous details, 543 00:26:14,822 --> 00:26:17,822 I don't even know where we're going in this story." 544 00:26:17,822 --> 00:26:22,429 And, so, we needed to back that off and start getting rid of some of that, 545 00:26:22,429 --> 00:26:27,650 or they'll cut their own reputation, in their story. 546 00:26:27,650 --> 00:26:32,030 "Well, I'm new to this industry, and don't really know what I'm doing." 547 00:26:32,030 --> 00:26:35,988 There are ways to phrase that that would not destroy your story. 548 00:26:35,988 --> 00:26:39,488 But the problem is now you've got somebody who's just tuned out. 549 00:26:39,488 --> 00:26:43,130 And, so, we talk, in that case, about mentorship. 550 00:26:43,130 --> 00:26:47,690 Talk about how much you value the mentor who's teaching you right now, 551 00:26:47,690 --> 00:26:50,770 and how you really want to be more of that. 552 00:26:50,770 --> 00:26:55,770 Then you're borrowing somebody else's story, which I think is so crazy, 553 00:26:55,770 --> 00:26:56,770 that you can do that 554 00:26:56,770 --> 00:26:59,270 But we can all think of ways of phrasing something 555 00:26:59,270 --> 00:27:00,640 that would be more productive. 556 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,480 And then the other thing is practice your story. 557 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,340 Tell somebody the story and then get feedback. 558 00:27:06,340 --> 00:27:08,321 Somebody who doesn't matter in this equation, 559 00:27:08,321 --> 00:27:10,655 and they might go, "Well, actually, I didn't even know 560 00:27:10,655 --> 00:27:11,488 where you're going with that." 561 00:27:11,488 --> 00:27:13,050 So that's helpful. 562 00:27:13,050 --> 00:27:18,020 – No, it's very helpful, and I think we could, probably, talk about this for hours. 563 00:27:18,020 --> 00:27:20,988 But I just want to thank you, Rick, for coming on the podcast, today. 564 00:27:20,988 --> 00:27:22,929 I think it's been a really great conversation, 565 00:27:22,929 --> 00:27:25,988 and I just really appreciate you sharing your knowledge, with our audience, today. 566 00:27:25,988 --> 00:27:28,821 – You're welcome, and if anybody wants to find out more, 567 00:27:28,821 --> 00:27:33,655 they can just go to nrnamerica.com, that's our National Referral Network. 568 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,988 Which is the way that we connect with accountants, attorneys, 569 00:27:36,988 --> 00:27:38,929 we've build this little sandbox, 570 00:27:38,929 --> 00:27:42,321 and when you come in there, there's a little pop up, it talks about the book. 571 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,130 Or you can just find the book on Amazon at A Firm Worth Building, 572 00:27:47,130 --> 00:27:48,821 and it should pop right up. 573 00:27:48,988 --> 00:27:50,821 – Perfect, and we'll put all those links in the show notes, 574 00:27:50,821 --> 00:27:51,821 so feel free to look at that. 575 00:27:51,821 --> 00:27:52,488 – Great, thank you. 576 00:27:52,488 --> 00:27:54,488 < Outro > 577 00:27:54,488 --> 00:27:56,154 – This has been Count Me In, 578 00:27:56,154 --> 00:28:00,240 IMA's podcast, providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders, 579 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,154 from the accounting and finance profession. 580 00:28:02,154 --> 00:28:04,821 If you like what you heard, and you'd like to be counted in 581 00:28:04,821 --> 00:28:07,321 for more relevant accounting and finance education, 582 00:28:07,321 --> 00:28:13,654 visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.