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Speaker: Welcome to Honest Money.

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I'm your host, Anya, and today's
episode is brought to you by hard block.

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Anja: Hello.

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Joining me today is Zane Truscott, a
fellow Bitcoin and a podcaster, and I

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believe he also lives fairly close to me.

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Um, somewhere in, I, is it, is it
southeast Queensland or, I'm in

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Zane: southeast Queensland.

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I'm just up the road from you, Anja,
on the southern end of the Gold

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Coast in a place called Palm Beach.

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Nice.

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Yeah.

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Anja: Nice.

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Yeah, I was, I was in Burleigh
Heads yesterday, so yeah.

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Beautiful region of Australia.

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Um, I started following you on
Instagram and then I followed

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your wife on Instagram.

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Yeah.

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Today I really want to hear a little
bit more about your story, so do

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you wanna give my audience the TLDR?

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Zane: Yeah, I'll give you the TLDR,
uh, look, basically, I, I, I've been

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in Bitcoin since 2018 anda, uh, I'm
really passionate about this space.

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Uh, I see a lot of problems in the
financial system and, uh, and I kind

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of came to Bitcoin because the GFC
had a big impact, uh, on my, on my

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financial life, uh, going back to 2008.

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So we can kind of maybe touch on that.

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But basically, you know, I
see Bitcoin as the future.

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Uh, for the past 12 months, I've been
building my YouTube channel really

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passionate about educating people,
particularly Gen Xs, um, to embrace

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Bitcoin as a retirement plan B asset.

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The reality is, is that, you know,
most people don't realize that their,

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their superannuation and their 4
0 1 Ks, you know, for our American

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audience, uh, they're just simply not.

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Uh, keeping up with inflation.

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And the reality is, is that, uh, most
people don't realize that, uh, that

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pot of gold nest egg that they're
looking forward to, uh, is simply

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not going to be enough, uh, with
inflation the way it is these days.

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So, um, yeah, very
passionate about the space.

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Uh, I've got my own private mentorship
community of Aussie Bitcoiners who've, uh,

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come into this space, uh, and joined me
over the past, I'd say nine to 12 months.

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Uh, done a lot of one-on-one coaching
calls with people who are just getting

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started in Bitcoin, um, helping
them to, to onboard with confidence.

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Uh, and my background basically, I mean,
I'm, I'm a father of, uh, three daughters.

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Uh, they're all grown up now.

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Um, and, uh, I care a lot about the
future generation, uh, of this country

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because I see a lot of problems with,
uh, young people being able to live

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the great Australian dream that.

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That we've been fortunate
enough, uh, to participate in.

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And I really feel like we've
been the last generation, uh,

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who, who was able to do this.

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Um, and so, yeah, and I've got
a background also in, uh, in

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running seminars, workshops.

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Um, my wife and I ran a seminar company
for about 16 years, traveling all

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around Australia and, and basically
hosting, uh, professional speakers,

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uh, in the health and wellness space.

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So that's the TLDR.

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Anja: I love it.

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And your online community, like, I'm
so keen to understand who's joining

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this c Is it, are you seeing just like
Bitcoin, where in their Bitcoin journey

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are the people that typically join?

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Zane: For the most part,
they're fairly new.

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But having said that, there are people
who have come in to the community and

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you who, uh, have made a few mistakes.

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Okay.

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They've come in and out of Bitcoin,
uh, you know, tried to trade bitcoin.

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Tried to outsmart Bitcoin and kind of
lived to realize that was a mistake, and

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now they're looking to do things right.

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And so, you know, we've set up a six
module, uh, prerecorded training.

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So anybody coming into, uh, the Bitcoin
Success Circle community, you know,

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they have immediate access to really
fast tracking their learning journey.

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Because, you know, what I find is,
is that the biggest hurdle for most

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people when they're coming into Bitcoin
is just the, the level of education

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that's kind of required for people to
get the level of understanding they

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need to move forward with confidence.

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You know, that's the biggest challenge's.

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Lives are so busy.

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Um, you know, there's a lot of
mixed messaging coming their way.

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Uh, you know, and it's just, it's
really difficult, um, for people

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to kind of get all of the scope of
what bitcoin's about into a small

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package, if you like, um, so that
they can move forward with confidence.

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And so, uh, I feel like we've
solved that challenge, uh,

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because we can really fast track.

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I mean, I've put, I would
say six years of my learning

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journey into a, into a program.

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Uh, essentially it's six modules of two
hours of training that we recorded live.

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Uh, but also, you know, I think one of
the most powerful things about Bitcoin,

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and you, and you'll probably agree
with this, is just the connections.

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You know, and being able to be around
like-minded people who also understand

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the problems, uh, that we're, we're
kind of faced with in our financial

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lives and how Bitcoin solves this.

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And probably the most.

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Uh, challenge that I find that
people have, um, is they don't

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know anyone in their friendship
circle or their family circle.

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Who, you know, believes in
Bitcoin the way that they do.

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And so they want to be around other
people who have a, a similar mindset

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and a similar, uh, outlook and a,
who are a, are on a similar path.

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So yeah, I would say most
people are fairly new.

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A lot of people, uh, uh, have
decided to roll over their industry

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superannuation fund into A-S-M-S-F
so that they can buy Bitcoin.

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Uh, a lot of people don't realize, uh,
Anja, that, um, you know, if you are in

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industry superannuation, you can't get
exposure to Bitcoin and certainly not

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Bitcoin in self custody, which is, you
know, what I certainly advocate for.

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Um, so there's a lot of people who
are making that call because they know

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that superannuation is a problem and
they're feeling, uh, the restrictions

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and constraints around that.

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And so they're, they're utilizing Bitcoin
as a way to, to plan for their retirement.

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So that's kind of it in a nutshell.

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Anja: Um, yeah, so I guess in
Australia we're in this transitionary

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period where the government doesn't
particularly have a stance on Bitcoin.

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Very few people in government at the state
and federal level are curious about it.

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Um, I recently saw, um, perception
data, um, from a guy in, I think Canada.

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Um, I had him on the podcast,
uh, talk about like the top 10

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countries globally that are talking
about Bitcoin and obviously the US

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is miles ahead of everyone else.

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And then countries like
UK, Canada are on there.

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Um, I believe El Salvador,
Switzerland as well.

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And unfortunately, Australia's
not in the top 10 list.

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And to further that the, um, I believe
also, I don't know if this is still

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the case, but I have heard fair fairly
recently from a, a financial advisor

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that they're actually not allowed
to recommend Bitcoin because it's

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not in the approved product list.

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What they can do is if their customer
comes to them saying, Hey, I want

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to invest in Bitcoin, then they
can allocate a, a, an amount that

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they're guided by their customer.

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So it's kind of like, it's hard for
individuals because we don't have,

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um, people in authority recommending
it as, as a product in Australia.

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Nevermind that, you know, the
BlackRock, BlackRock is recommending

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Bitcoin, the Bank of America
is recommending Bitcoin, but in

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Australia, we're so behind the curve.

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So it's really up to individuals
to do their own work and it's

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people like you and me starting
that conversation and trying to get

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people to think about it responsibly.

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Do work, do the work in terms of like
understanding it, so avoiding scams,

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knowing how to navigate, you know, the
banking system in Australia, knowing that

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they have options such as rolling their
super industry super fund into an SMSF

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so that it can invest Bitcoin directly.

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And people just don't know that
they have this, um, these options.

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So when they come across it,
um, they're very intrigued.

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And have you noticed a change in, I
guess like recently in terms of adoption

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in Australia, do you feel like the
conversation is starting to shift at all?

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Zane: Look, on a broad scale, I'd say no.

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Uh, but only because, uh, you know,
people are very much like I said

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earlier, and yeah, they're very, yeah.

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People's lives are strapped right now.

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You know, we, we've got
a cost of living crisis.

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We've got, you know, a growing wealth gap.

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People are working harder for less.

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You know, we've got a shift in terms of,
uh, you know, a generational shift in, in,

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in terms of, uh, you know, young people
really starting to question, you know,

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what their future's going to look like.

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You know, back in our day when,
when we were kind of coming

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through the education system and.

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Uh, you know, planning our lives, we
felt like we had time on our side.

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You know, we felt like we could save
to buy a home and plan, you know, to,

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to, to lay our roots down and build for
the future and, uh, create a business.

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And, and it was, um, you know, if you put
in the hard work and, and, and you took a

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calculated risk and served a market need,
you know, everything was kind of in your

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favor to, to, to be able to do all that.

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But, you know, what we're
seeing now is, is a, is a shift.

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And, you know, there's
probably reasons for that.

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Um, but the reality is, is that
it's, it's just life's getting

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harder for a larger portion of
the population than ever before.

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And yet they don't realize that
there is actually a, a solution.

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Now, it might not be an immediate
solution, it's gonna change their

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life overnight, but certainly a,
a, a solution that restores hope.

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Right.

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And that's ultimately what Bitcoin is.

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It's, it's, it's an opt out.

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But in order to take that step, you've
gotta understand a little about the

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fundamentals of it, why it was created,
you know, why it came out on the

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back of the global financial crisis,
which was a very chaotic period.

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I mean, that didn't happen by accident,
you know, and, and it's taken us the best

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part of, you know, 16, 17 years to, to, to
really start to see more of a mainstream.

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listening hard block is offering

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running Bitcoin only exchange?

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Zane: So yeah, so what I'm seeing is
that there are more people, certainly

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in the space that I'm operating in,
and I'm sure you are seeing the same.

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And we operate, or I, sorry, we operate
in a little bit of an eco chamber, right?

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There's always new people kind of
coming across us and our content

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and our education and our podcasts.

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Um, so I'm noticing that, but I wouldn't
say there's any kind of signal in the

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mainstream media or in the general
public that would indicate that, you

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know, uh, that Bitcoin's going to
gain, you know, mainstream awareness in

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Australia in the next couple of years.

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I, I, I think Australia's going to
very much be a laggard in all of this.

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I, I think Australia's gonna do all that.

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It can.

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To protect the legacy banking system.

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I mean, our four big banks are
among the most profitable on earth,

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even though we only have a country
of what, 25, 20 6 million people.

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And so, you know, um, they're
gonna do all that they can to try

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to protect their patch of grass
for as long as they possibly can.

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And what we know about Bitcoin is
that it's a threat to that system.

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So, you know, I, I don't expect that your
financial planner or your accountant,

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you know, or the, or the treasurer
or the Today Show or anybody who's a

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part of that system is going to make
any kind of public announcement that

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right now is the time for you guys
to all be learning about Bitcoin.

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You know, it's just not gonna happen.

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Right.

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And like you said earlier, so it's, it's
up to us as individuals to self-educate.

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I mean, we have to be the ones that
are, are the, uh, you know, the

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creators of our own destiny here.

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We have to be willing to self-educate.

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And it's so simple to do.

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I mean, all the content
that you need is available.

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It's at your fingertips now, either on
YouTube or audio books or, you know,

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Amazon, uh, books, whatever it might be.

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Um, but people have to make that,
uh, make that proactive, proactive

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choice to, to, to go on that journey.

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And I, and I just don't think that there
is a wholesale consortium of the public

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that, um, you know, is willing to take
that step, uh, or is able, you know,

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because like I said, most people are, uh,
just flat out trying to make ends meet

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and the last thing on earth they have.

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00:13:57,952 --> 00:14:01,462
Any time and space for us to go and
learn about a completely new monetary

219
00:14:01,462 --> 00:14:03,202
system that could change their life.

220
00:14:03,562 --> 00:14:04,282
You know what I mean?

221
00:14:05,182 --> 00:14:08,572
So that, that's kind of how I see
the, the general landscape of things.

222
00:14:08,577 --> 00:14:12,322
I, I think this is going to change,
but I don't think Australia is

223
00:14:12,322 --> 00:14:14,512
gonna lead the way in this change.

224
00:14:14,512 --> 00:14:19,522
I think, you know, it's gonna
be, um, you know, the same as all

225
00:14:19,522 --> 00:14:23,542
the transformational technologies
that we've seen in our lifetime.

226
00:14:23,992 --> 00:14:29,062
You know, be it cable tv or
the iPhone or Uber or Netflix,

227
00:14:29,542 --> 00:14:31,132
you know, any of those things.

228
00:14:31,282 --> 00:14:36,592
Australia just by default ends up
embracing them, uh, when it can't

229
00:14:36,592 --> 00:14:39,772
sort of hang on to the, the old
way of doing things any longer.

230
00:14:39,772 --> 00:14:42,412
So that's what I think's gonna
happen, and for that reason,

231
00:14:42,412 --> 00:14:45,052
Australia's probably some way off.

232
00:14:45,142 --> 00:14:45,802
Um.

233
00:14:46,282 --> 00:14:49,012
The level of adoption that we're
going to see in other countries.

234
00:14:49,192 --> 00:14:54,142
Anja: Yeah, like I think the awareness
of Bitcoin is really high in Australia,

235
00:14:54,142 --> 00:14:58,942
but uh, the understanding of what
it actually is is extremely low

236
00:14:59,002 --> 00:15:01,282
and obvious for obvious reasons.

237
00:15:01,672 --> 00:15:03,772
Um, yeah.

238
00:15:03,772 --> 00:15:07,312
But I'm keen to know a little bit
more about like, your motivation.

239
00:15:07,312 --> 00:15:12,022
What is driving you to wanna speak
about it and educate others on it?

240
00:15:12,202 --> 00:15:13,552
Zane: Yeah, it's an interesting question.

241
00:15:13,552 --> 00:15:18,112
Look, I think for me, when I first,
uh, you know, got serious about

242
00:15:18,112 --> 00:15:22,102
Bitcoin, uh, I'd come through a
period where, like my wife and I,

243
00:15:22,102 --> 00:15:26,512
we bought a waterfront property on
the Gold Coast in September, 2007.

244
00:15:26,992 --> 00:15:27,262
Okay.

245
00:15:27,262 --> 00:15:30,532
Now, that was the height, absolute
peak of the property market.

246
00:15:31,072 --> 00:15:34,732
And I had friends who were in real
estate and who were property investors,

247
00:15:34,732 --> 00:15:39,232
and they said, said to me and my wife,
they said, you know, you will never

248
00:15:39,232 --> 00:15:41,332
lose money on water in Queensland.

249
00:15:41,392 --> 00:15:41,722
Right?

250
00:15:42,262 --> 00:15:44,842
And they, and you know,
so we, there we were.

251
00:15:45,622 --> 00:15:48,922
It was our, it wasn't our first
home, I think it was our third home.

252
00:15:48,922 --> 00:15:53,722
But, um, you know, it was, it was
like this is the dream, you know,

253
00:15:53,722 --> 00:15:57,022
and it's happening quite early for
us, and our kids are still little and

254
00:15:57,022 --> 00:16:00,622
we've got this beautiful old home,
but it was a beautiful big block of

255
00:16:00,622 --> 00:16:05,632
land on a point position, uh, on the
northern Gold Coast wide water canal.

256
00:16:05,632 --> 00:16:09,472
And we had this dream of, you know,
being there for the next, you know,

257
00:16:09,562 --> 00:16:13,252
15, 20 years and, and raising our
kids there and, and everything.

258
00:16:13,252 --> 00:16:19,402
And then, you know, lo and behold, uh,
less than a year later, the GFC hit and

259
00:16:19,912 --> 00:16:25,642
we ended up having to, uh, make some
decisions because we had our EV events

260
00:16:25,642 --> 00:16:27,742
company running out of different premises.

261
00:16:27,742 --> 00:16:31,522
And, uh, we could see that
the market was shifting.

262
00:16:31,582 --> 00:16:35,392
And uh, you know, we had reasonable
equity in the home, but we certainly

263
00:16:35,392 --> 00:16:39,082
weren't in a position like if we
had to sell it, you know, it was,

264
00:16:39,202 --> 00:16:40,912
we were going to lose significant.

265
00:16:41,242 --> 00:16:44,002
Uh, amount of capital that we
put into it because the market

266
00:16:44,002 --> 00:16:48,262
had shifted so fast, you know,
in such a, a short space of time.

267
00:16:48,562 --> 00:16:51,232
So we ended up moving our
business there and, and making

268
00:16:51,232 --> 00:16:52,852
the best of a bad situation.

269
00:16:52,852 --> 00:16:57,832
But fast forward, uh, about seven
or eight years after that, we still

270
00:16:57,832 --> 00:17:03,802
had the property, but in the end,
uh, we ended up, uh, selling that,

271
00:17:03,832 --> 00:17:05,752
that, uh, piece of real estate.

272
00:17:05,782 --> 00:17:10,222
And, uh, I think we lost
about five, $600,000.

273
00:17:10,252 --> 00:17:13,492
Okay, because we put some money
into remodeling downstairs so

274
00:17:13,492 --> 00:17:15,922
we could run our business from
there and, and things like that.

275
00:17:16,402 --> 00:17:20,632
But it really just highlighted
to me how, you know, there's no

276
00:17:20,632 --> 00:17:28,072
guarantees in life and, and, um,
these financial, uh, crashes, uh,

277
00:17:28,072 --> 00:17:30,142
and, and the way that they manipulate.

278
00:17:30,562 --> 00:17:32,512
Boom and bust cycles.

279
00:17:33,022 --> 00:17:37,912
Uh, and the way that, you know, the
big players always seem to get bailed

280
00:17:37,912 --> 00:17:42,772
out and, you know, the little guy seems
to get left kind of holding the bag,

281
00:17:42,952 --> 00:17:44,932
uh, and having to pick up the pieces.

282
00:17:45,382 --> 00:17:49,282
Uh, even though it didn't destroy us,
it just woke up, uh, or, or I guess,

283
00:17:49,282 --> 00:17:53,962
lit a fire in me that I wanted to really
understand a little more about, you know,

284
00:17:54,022 --> 00:17:58,852
how this financial system works and why
is it that, you know, there is so much

285
00:17:58,852 --> 00:18:00,922
manipulation in the market and those that.

286
00:18:01,762 --> 00:18:06,052
You know, go and profit from issuing
all this, these toxic loans, which

287
00:18:06,052 --> 00:18:10,402
was the case back then where it was
called the subprime, uh, mortgage,

288
00:18:10,432 --> 00:18:12,862
uh, uh, crisis back in America.

289
00:18:13,282 --> 00:18:16,222
And basically anybody
could get a loan, right?

290
00:18:16,282 --> 00:18:21,412
If you, if you had a first and a last
name, um, and you had some form of

291
00:18:21,412 --> 00:18:23,542
deposit, you could basically get a loan.

292
00:18:23,542 --> 00:18:25,732
And it was the case here
in Australia as well.

293
00:18:26,302 --> 00:18:30,322
Uh, but there were a lot of people
who, you know, um, who didn't have

294
00:18:30,322 --> 00:18:34,072
the substance behind them to be able
to substantiate or to support the

295
00:18:34,072 --> 00:18:36,172
mortgages that were they were taking on.

296
00:18:36,442 --> 00:18:39,712
And then when the shit hit the
fan, you know, a lot of people

297
00:18:39,802 --> 00:18:41,002
got into a lot of trouble.

298
00:18:42,292 --> 00:18:47,962
Anyway, long story short, you know,
for me it lit a fire in me to wanna

299
00:18:47,962 --> 00:18:51,352
learn more about the history of
money, the financial system, how it

300
00:18:51,352 --> 00:18:58,192
all kind of ties together, uh, said
to me in 2013, you know, this Bitcoin

301
00:18:58,192 --> 00:19:00,202
thing, you should have a look at it.

302
00:19:00,562 --> 00:19:02,842
You know, and I'm like,
what are you talking about?

303
00:19:02,872 --> 00:19:03,262
You know?

304
00:19:03,262 --> 00:19:04,702
And I kind of dismissed it.

305
00:19:05,632 --> 00:19:09,712
But then it came across my desk
about four years later in 2017.

306
00:19:10,162 --> 00:19:13,102
Um, and this time I thought, hang on,
there might be something in there.

307
00:19:13,102 --> 00:19:15,682
So I've, I've kind of
heard more than once.

308
00:19:15,682 --> 00:19:19,042
I've probably heard two or three times
people going on about this Bitcoin thing,

309
00:19:19,042 --> 00:19:21,052
but I'd never paid any attention to it.

310
00:19:21,052 --> 00:19:23,602
It was just like, what,
what are you talking about?

311
00:19:23,602 --> 00:19:24,682
This new form of money.

312
00:19:24,682 --> 00:19:29,277
I kind of just thought it was like
some kind of a scam or, you know, I,

313
00:19:29,282 --> 00:19:32,002
I just had no, I didn't really know
what to think, but it just sounded

314
00:19:32,002 --> 00:19:35,362
like somebody was trying to sell
me a network marketing scheme or

315
00:19:35,962 --> 00:19:38,212
something, something crazy like that.

316
00:19:38,992 --> 00:19:45,352
But when I, uh, one of the first things I
did an was I actually, uh, I, well I read

317
00:19:45,352 --> 00:19:48,352
the Bitcoin Standard by Safe Adina Moose.

318
00:19:48,412 --> 00:19:48,802
Okay.

319
00:19:48,802 --> 00:19:53,152
So I'd got that, uh, I got that book
off Amazon and I started reading that.

320
00:19:53,152 --> 00:19:59,062
But I also subscribed to a, uh,
a publication out of Melbourne.

321
00:19:59,452 --> 00:20:05,032
And a gentleman by the name of Sam Kering,
uh, who I believe ended up going to the

322
00:20:05,032 --> 00:20:09,652
UK after a few years later, but he was one
of the first guys that was really writing

323
00:20:09,652 --> 00:20:14,212
about, you know, this new revolutionary
monetary system called Bitcoin.

324
00:20:14,212 --> 00:20:18,922
And he was just, you know, I subscribed
to his newsletter and he was articulating

325
00:20:18,922 --> 00:20:20,302
what this thing was all about.

326
00:20:21,262 --> 00:20:24,322
You know, I just went on a, a bit of
a learning journey for, you know, I'd

327
00:20:24,322 --> 00:20:30,802
say, I'd say six to to nine months,
uh, of just digesting information.

328
00:20:31,582 --> 00:20:36,232
And then I finally pulled the
trigger in, in January 20th, 2018.

329
00:20:37,192 --> 00:20:41,517
But what's crazy is that, um,
you know, I sat through a,

330
00:20:41,522 --> 00:20:45,472
a, an 84% drawdown that year.

331
00:20:46,102 --> 00:20:49,642
I mean, if you can go back and look
at the historical, uh, price chart

332
00:20:49,642 --> 00:20:53,992
for Bitcoin, people who are fairly
new into Bitcoin over the past 12

333
00:20:53,992 --> 00:20:58,972
months, who have experienced maybe
a 50 to 54%, I think at its peak.

334
00:20:59,692 --> 00:21:04,582
They don't realize that this has
been by no means the biggest, uh,

335
00:21:04,672 --> 00:21:06,832
drawdown in Bitcoin's history.

336
00:21:06,832 --> 00:21:10,762
I think 2018, uh, or maybe
2013 was the biggest, but

337
00:21:10,762 --> 00:21:13,012
certainly it was, uh, 80, 84%.

338
00:21:13,852 --> 00:21:17,782
But, you know, I didn't, I didn't
flinch because, because I'd done that

339
00:21:17,782 --> 00:21:23,512
base level of work on Bitcoin, and
I understood fundamentally that it

340
00:21:23,512 --> 00:21:28,822
was an emerging monetary system that
was going to take time to catch on.

341
00:21:29,542 --> 00:21:31,552
And, you know, and back then
we just, we didn't have the

342
00:21:31,552 --> 00:21:32,932
clarity that we've got now.

343
00:21:33,412 --> 00:21:33,712
Okay.

344
00:21:33,712 --> 00:21:37,222
We didn't have all the regulatory
clarity that's coming out of

345
00:21:37,222 --> 00:21:40,552
America, and nobody really knew
what was going to happen back then.

346
00:21:41,182 --> 00:21:44,602
But even fundamentally, I still
understood that this was something

347
00:21:44,662 --> 00:21:47,992
that was worth, you know,
investing in paying attention to.

348
00:21:48,592 --> 00:21:52,582
Um, you know, and, and of course
as time's gone on, that's, that's

349
00:21:52,582 --> 00:21:54,862
proven, uh, to be the case, but.

350
00:21:55,702 --> 00:22:00,442
Um, you know, so, so in a nutshell, I
think for me it was just that realization

351
00:22:00,442 --> 00:22:06,592
that legacy assets that, um, historically
have performed exceptionally well and

352
00:22:06,592 --> 00:22:11,002
people trust, um, you know, we, in
these boom and bust cycles, you never

353
00:22:11,002 --> 00:22:12,442
really know what's going to happen.

354
00:22:13,312 --> 00:22:18,562
And the more you dig into it, you
realize that it's all really a facade.

355
00:22:18,562 --> 00:22:20,572
It's, it's the whole financial system.

356
00:22:20,572 --> 00:22:23,962
We live in a debt-based financial
system that is highly manipulated.

357
00:22:24,652 --> 00:22:31,192
And what if we could have a form of money
where there were no, uh, politicians or

358
00:22:31,192 --> 00:22:36,352
central bankers or people behind closed
doors that could, could call the shots?

359
00:22:36,652 --> 00:22:39,532
And for me, that was the most
attractive thing about Bitcoin.

360
00:22:39,592 --> 00:22:42,862
And, you know, to this, to this day,
this is, this is the probably the

361
00:22:42,862 --> 00:22:44,692
main thing that I say to people.

362
00:22:45,352 --> 00:22:49,522
You know, the thing that makes Bitcoin
so powerful is its decentralization.

363
00:22:50,587 --> 00:22:54,337
You know, and, and people are so
used to outsourcing their financial

364
00:22:54,337 --> 00:23:00,217
lives to a bank or to a financial
planner or to a, you know, a broker

365
00:23:00,217 --> 00:23:03,427
or a middleman, you know, it's
just what we've been raised with.

366
00:23:04,147 --> 00:23:08,677
And so try to try and get their head
around a concept where what we have

367
00:23:08,677 --> 00:23:14,167
over here is a, is a different monetary
system that, that has rules, but no

368
00:23:14,167 --> 00:23:18,577
rulers, you know, nobody, no, it's,
it's got rules that are verified every

369
00:23:18,577 --> 00:23:23,077
10 minutes, which is essentially like
an audit that is done in the entire

370
00:23:23,137 --> 00:23:27,097
monetary system every 10 minutes,
but nobody can change those rules.

371
00:23:27,787 --> 00:23:30,667
And, and for me, that that
was the most powerful thing.

372
00:23:30,667 --> 00:23:31,777
And, and that's kind of.

373
00:23:32,182 --> 00:23:34,882
Why I've sort of stayed the
course, uh, over all these years.

374
00:23:35,062 --> 00:23:35,452
Anja: Yeah.

375
00:23:35,512 --> 00:23:37,762
I really, really resonate with that.

376
00:23:37,762 --> 00:23:43,822
And for me, it does come down to which
system do I fundamentally trust more?

377
00:23:44,152 --> 00:23:50,182
Do I trust a system that is a debt-based
Ponzi scheme, um, that has people

378
00:23:50,182 --> 00:23:55,222
pulling strings and centrally planning
things that they cannot possibly plan

379
00:23:55,222 --> 00:23:59,722
because the economy's so large and
individual human action is so different

380
00:23:59,722 --> 00:24:04,192
that no one can actually predict
how people will react to something.

381
00:24:04,192 --> 00:24:10,327
So they use these very like aggregate
statistics to plan the entire economy.

382
00:24:10,327 --> 00:24:15,517
And they think they're doing good,
but they con continuously, uh, failing

383
00:24:15,517 --> 00:24:19,687
to see secondary, tertiary, and
unseen consequences of their action.

384
00:24:19,957 --> 00:24:21,337
So that's option one.

385
00:24:21,697 --> 00:24:26,257
Um, or do I trust essentially
the free decentralized market?

386
00:24:26,257 --> 00:24:29,917
So yes, there's human
psychology that comes into that.

387
00:24:29,917 --> 00:24:34,807
Yes, there's price volatility,
but it's fundamentally like a, a

388
00:24:34,807 --> 00:24:37,177
complete, a completely free market.

389
00:24:37,177 --> 00:24:41,287
And I, I trust maths and I trust
the free market more, so, yeah.

390
00:24:42,412 --> 00:24:42,832
Mm-hmm.

391
00:24:43,267 --> 00:24:49,747
Um, for me, having rules that are
completely, uh, predictable and consistent

392
00:24:50,017 --> 00:24:55,537
and can't easily be changed by political
whim, you know, you have to, if you wanna

393
00:24:56,377 --> 00:25:00,277
propose a change through the protocol
that's, you know, you have to put

394
00:25:00,277 --> 00:25:04,387
in a Bitcoin improvement proposal
that's debated for years before

395
00:25:04,387 --> 00:25:07,897
it's even, you know, implemented,
if it ever gets implemented.

396
00:25:07,897 --> 00:25:09,997
So change

397
00:25:10,147 --> 00:25:11,682
Zane: takes time, and
Anna requires consensus.

398
00:25:11,982 --> 00:25:17,047
It requires consensus from those
who are enforcing the Bitcoin rules

399
00:25:17,167 --> 00:25:22,327
via, you know, the node runners to
actually to agree with that proposal.

400
00:25:22,357 --> 00:25:28,147
And, and, you know, and, and this is why
Bitcoin has never been, uh, you know,

401
00:25:28,147 --> 00:25:30,487
every attack on Bitcoin has been thwarted.

402
00:25:30,697 --> 00:25:34,567
You know, we've had these, um,
hard forks and, and, and you know,

403
00:25:34,567 --> 00:25:39,037
the block size wars and things
like that back in 20 17, 20 18.

404
00:25:39,037 --> 00:25:42,907
And, you know, there's been a
lot of people who have kind of

405
00:25:42,907 --> 00:25:47,227
predicted and forecast and maybe
even cheered on Bitcoin's demise.

406
00:25:47,977 --> 00:25:49,357
But you know, it's never been hacked.

407
00:25:49,357 --> 00:25:50,707
It's the most powerful.

408
00:25:51,052 --> 00:25:54,412
Computational, uh, network ever created.

409
00:25:54,412 --> 00:25:57,322
I mean, you could add Facebook,
Amazon, Google, and all the

410
00:25:57,322 --> 00:26:00,742
computational power that goes
into those technologies combined.

411
00:26:01,132 --> 00:26:03,112
And Bitcoin is still more powerful.

412
00:26:03,537 --> 00:26:07,792
And, and this is the reason why,
you know, when you start, you know,

413
00:26:07,792 --> 00:26:13,312
I guess, um, deploying capital or
saving in Bitcoin, once you have

414
00:26:13,312 --> 00:26:17,392
these fundamental understandings,
you can do it with confidence, right?

415
00:26:17,422 --> 00:26:23,512
Because you, you, you, you know, well,
historic history tells us that TikTok

416
00:26:23,512 --> 00:26:28,642
next block, you know, Bitcoin just,
it just trudges along and just your,

417
00:26:28,642 --> 00:26:30,382
your savings are just always there.

418
00:26:30,382 --> 00:26:33,862
Nothing can happen to them
unless you give up your keys.

419
00:26:34,522 --> 00:26:34,792
Right?

420
00:26:34,792 --> 00:26:38,212
And that's what makes it just so
dependable and, and, and, and so

421
00:26:38,212 --> 00:26:40,282
powerful as a savings technology.

422
00:26:41,092 --> 00:26:44,992
And, you know, if you believe
that we're heading into a world of

423
00:26:44,992 --> 00:26:48,712
increasing uncertainty and chaos.

424
00:26:49,792 --> 00:26:54,592
And inflation and growing centralization
around our financial lives.

425
00:26:55,252 --> 00:26:59,392
And if you care about your financial
autonomy and freedom and sovereignty,

426
00:26:59,632 --> 00:27:04,762
I mean, if those are value systems
that you hold dear, then you have to

427
00:27:04,762 --> 00:27:09,802
be paying attention to Bitcoin because
it, it solves that problem right?

428
00:27:10,372 --> 00:27:14,452
Now, you're not gonna get rich overnight,
but this is why, you know, people who

429
00:27:14,452 --> 00:27:16,672
come to Bitcoin only for number go up.

430
00:27:17,212 --> 00:27:22,612
Invariably they don't stay right,
and then they blame Bitcoin and they

431
00:27:22,612 --> 00:27:28,012
blame the market or Bitcoin, you
know, this bitcoin thing because

432
00:27:28,012 --> 00:27:29,212
they haven't done the work on it.

433
00:27:29,212 --> 00:27:34,402
To realize that number go up, that
is just a byproduct of scarcity.

434
00:27:35,272 --> 00:27:35,752
Okay?

435
00:27:35,962 --> 00:27:37,072
But it takes time.

436
00:27:37,072 --> 00:27:40,012
It's, it's, it's volatile
because the legacy system doesn't

437
00:27:40,012 --> 00:27:41,482
know how to value Bitcoin.

438
00:27:42,532 --> 00:27:45,592
And so when we're pricing it in
dollars all of the time, we're

439
00:27:45,592 --> 00:27:47,272
doing Bitcoin a disservice.

440
00:27:47,917 --> 00:27:53,257
And ourselves, because we're constantly
in this mindset of, am I up or am I down?

441
00:27:53,257 --> 00:27:57,397
Which is, which is taking us away
from the work that we really should

442
00:27:57,397 --> 00:28:02,287
be doing, which is understanding
Bitcoin at a deeper level, not where

443
00:28:02,287 --> 00:28:03,967
this is, but where this is going.

444
00:28:05,047 --> 00:28:10,897
Um, and so, yeah, it's, uh, this,
this is the greatest challenge and,

445
00:28:10,897 --> 00:28:15,307
you know, people coming into Bitcoin,
them being able to lower their

446
00:28:15,307 --> 00:28:18,997
time preference, zoom out, right?

447
00:28:18,997 --> 00:28:22,417
Look a little in the history
as to why Bitcoin was created,

448
00:28:22,417 --> 00:28:25,597
what problems it solves, right?

449
00:28:25,597 --> 00:28:30,577
And then with that understanding,
deciding whether or not Bitcoin is going

450
00:28:30,577 --> 00:28:36,757
to be a part of their personal financial
future in whatever capacity that, you

451
00:28:36,757 --> 00:28:41,227
know, to, which is usually relevant to
the amount of conviction they've got.

452
00:28:42,007 --> 00:28:46,207
Um, and that, and then it's just
a, a, a case of staying the course.

453
00:28:46,567 --> 00:28:48,967
You know, and, and just keeping
the learning journey going.

454
00:28:50,077 --> 00:28:55,807
So the greatest challenge we have
is helping people to understand

455
00:28:56,707 --> 00:29:01,177
that Bitcoin is not a trade,
it's not a speculative asset.

456
00:29:02,227 --> 00:29:03,607
Bitcoin is a revolution.

457
00:29:04,867 --> 00:29:05,287
Okay.

458
00:29:05,617 --> 00:29:10,777
But in order to get to that point,
you, you, you need to self-educate.

459
00:29:12,127 --> 00:29:13,627
It's, it's really that simple.

460
00:29:13,807 --> 00:29:14,047
Yeah.

461
00:29:14,437 --> 00:29:14,797
Anja: Yeah.

462
00:29:14,797 --> 00:29:18,157
And full disclosure, like when I
first got into Bitcoin, um, the

463
00:29:18,157 --> 00:29:21,967
first allocation that I made to
it was purely for number go up.

464
00:29:22,297 --> 00:29:27,547
I definitely treated it like an investment
class, not like a new form of money.

465
00:29:27,547 --> 00:29:33,157
So naturally as I read more,
my complete perception and

466
00:29:33,157 --> 00:29:34,837
philosophy around it changed.

467
00:29:35,317 --> 00:29:40,237
But like, do you think, I mean, when
people ask me what they should do, I

468
00:29:40,237 --> 00:29:45,262
don't like obviously giving out financial
advice, but I do like to give some sort of

469
00:29:45,262 --> 00:29:48,802
high level guidelines and what to expect.

470
00:29:48,802 --> 00:29:53,122
So I always mention it's
really volatile, um, to be, you

471
00:29:53,122 --> 00:29:54,952
know, to everyone's different.

472
00:29:54,952 --> 00:29:57,292
Everyone can stomach
volatility differently.

473
00:29:57,802 --> 00:30:01,312
Um, so, uh, one expectation I like
to set, it's like no matter what

474
00:30:01,312 --> 00:30:04,462
you decide to do and how much you
decide to allocate into Bitcoin,

475
00:30:04,912 --> 00:30:06,742
commit to it for at least four years.

476
00:30:06,742 --> 00:30:09,592
So, um, that's just kind of one thing.

477
00:30:09,592 --> 00:30:14,962
And then I'm like, continue learning
because education leads to inevitable

478
00:30:15,022 --> 00:30:17,857
allocation, you know, and I love that.

479
00:30:17,857 --> 00:30:21,952
So if they continue, yeah, if
they continue learning, obviously

480
00:30:22,012 --> 00:30:23,817
their perspective might shift.

481
00:30:23,937 --> 00:30:28,282
A lot of people, like everyone I've spoken
to in this podcast had a similar journey.

482
00:30:28,282 --> 00:30:31,162
They were in it for the money
and then they were like, okay,

483
00:30:31,162 --> 00:30:32,632
I'm here for the revolution.

484
00:30:32,632 --> 00:30:36,322
They, they're seeing the bigger
picture of it and they, when they

485
00:30:36,322 --> 00:30:39,262
compare fiat with Bitcoin, it's kind of

486
00:30:40,282 --> 00:30:42,922
it becomes really hard to go back.

487
00:30:42,927 --> 00:30:49,222
It it be like I can't justify to myself
selling some of from a Bitcoin and

488
00:30:49,222 --> 00:30:51,442
putting it in s and p 500 anymore.

489
00:30:51,442 --> 00:30:54,472
Like I just can't, I know some
people still do, and that's fine

490
00:30:54,472 --> 00:30:56,452
to each their own, but to me, yeah.

491
00:30:56,512 --> 00:30:58,192
I, I I can't stomach it.

492
00:31:00,472 --> 00:31:00,532
Zane: Yeah.

493
00:31:00,647 --> 00:31:00,727
And

494
00:31:00,867 --> 00:31:02,127
Anja: are you, yeah.

495
00:31:03,022 --> 00:31:03,712
Zane: Sorry, go ahead.

496
00:31:04,432 --> 00:31:06,892
Anja: No, I was gonna ask you a
different question, but if you have a

497
00:31:06,892 --> 00:31:08,512
follow up to that, I'd love to hear it.

498
00:31:08,662 --> 00:31:09,712
Zane: Yeah, I agree with you.

499
00:31:09,712 --> 00:31:13,102
I think once you understand Bitcoin,
there's no way you're going back,

500
00:31:14,062 --> 00:31:19,882
like once you convert fi currency
into the hardest form of money

501
00:31:19,882 --> 00:31:23,512
that humanity has ever seen, right?

502
00:31:23,512 --> 00:31:29,482
And you understand the value of the money
that you hold now in Bitcoin or in SATs in

503
00:31:29,482 --> 00:31:33,652
Satoshi, and you have it locked away in.

504
00:31:34,762 --> 00:31:40,042
In your own self custody or cold
storage set up, you, you're just not

505
00:31:40,042 --> 00:31:42,232
going back for a number of reasons.

506
00:31:42,232 --> 00:31:46,432
The first reason is you're not going
back because even if your Bitcoin

507
00:31:46,432 --> 00:31:53,992
doubles, triples, quadruples, or 10 Xs,
okay, the only reason to sell it is if

508
00:31:54,832 --> 00:32:01,432
you've been in Bitcoin for, you know,
five, 10 years or so, and you have the

509
00:32:01,432 --> 00:32:05,782
opportunity right now in this moment
to significantly change your life.

510
00:32:06,592 --> 00:32:06,832
Okay?

511
00:32:06,832 --> 00:32:11,062
Now it might be to pay off a big
fat mortgage, or it might be to

512
00:32:11,062 --> 00:32:16,222
buy a dream house or apartment, you
know, by the beach or something like

513
00:32:16,222 --> 00:32:20,122
that, or something you've always
wanted to do in your life, right?

514
00:32:20,122 --> 00:32:25,702
That you know right now, in this moment,
if I do this, I can fulfill that dream.

515
00:32:26,272 --> 00:32:26,632
Okay?

516
00:32:26,632 --> 00:32:28,822
But you've gotta keep in
mind a couple of things.

517
00:32:28,822 --> 00:32:33,412
The first thing is, in this country, if
you do it, you've now got a tax bill.

518
00:32:34,672 --> 00:32:35,122
Okay.

519
00:32:35,122 --> 00:32:41,032
Because 50% of the gain, if you've
held it for more than a year,

520
00:32:42,022 --> 00:32:44,752
is subject to capital gains tax.

521
00:32:44,752 --> 00:32:46,072
So that's the first issue.

522
00:32:46,762 --> 00:32:52,612
And the second issue is that you've
gotta be really sure that you're

523
00:32:52,612 --> 00:32:56,062
comfortable getting rid of that
Bitcoin because the chances of you

524
00:32:56,062 --> 00:33:00,592
getting that back certainly anywhere
near the price that you originally

525
00:33:00,592 --> 00:33:03,292
bought it is, is not good, right?

526
00:33:03,292 --> 00:33:06,892
So you have to be really sure
that this decision you are going

527
00:33:06,892 --> 00:33:11,542
to make is going to be a, a life
changing decision in some capacity.

528
00:33:11,722 --> 00:33:15,262
Because if all you do is sell it back
because you've doubled, triple quadrupled

529
00:33:15,262 --> 00:33:19,972
your money, I'm here to tell you, you
will, you will live to regret that.

530
00:33:20,992 --> 00:33:24,742
You know, and, and this is, this
is, again, this is, this is, this

531
00:33:24,742 --> 00:33:26,302
just comes down to education.

532
00:33:26,572 --> 00:33:27,052
Okay.

533
00:33:27,052 --> 00:33:31,222
This comes down to understanding
the value of the Bitcoin you hold.

534
00:33:31,522 --> 00:33:36,262
Most people do not understand
what scarcity means.

535
00:33:37,672 --> 00:33:39,862
Bitcoin is absolute scarcity.

536
00:33:40,672 --> 00:33:45,262
I mean, even gold, which has been
money for some 5,000 years, it has a 2%

537
00:33:46,552 --> 00:33:48,862
historical historical inflation rate.

538
00:33:49,822 --> 00:33:51,322
Bitcoin has zero.

539
00:33:52,732 --> 00:33:52,972
Okay?

540
00:33:52,972 --> 00:33:55,912
All we have is the issuance
of Bitcoin to get to that 21

541
00:33:55,912 --> 00:33:58,912
million hard cap, but that's it.

542
00:34:00,007 --> 00:34:00,547
And we already mine

543
00:34:00,712 --> 00:34:01,642
Anja: 20 million.

544
00:34:02,272 --> 00:34:02,842
Zane: Exactly.

545
00:34:02,932 --> 00:34:05,692
So we're what, what, 95% of the way.

546
00:34:05,692 --> 00:34:07,552
They're already Okay.

547
00:34:07,552 --> 00:34:10,222
And you, you used the word
earlier and you're predictable.

548
00:34:10,882 --> 00:34:14,302
You like having something
that's predictable when it comes

549
00:34:14,302 --> 00:34:15,682
to planning for the future.

550
00:34:16,732 --> 00:34:19,192
Well, there was a time where
our money was predictable.

551
00:34:20,602 --> 00:34:23,812
You know, when we were kids, maybe
not, not you, but certainly I remember

552
00:34:23,812 --> 00:34:28,672
back in the late seventies or uh, very
early eighties, you know, we used to

553
00:34:28,672 --> 00:34:34,492
have these little, uh, uh, passport,
uh, with the Commonwealth Bank.

554
00:34:34,492 --> 00:34:38,212
They used to come around to the school
and they'd teach you about saving, right?

555
00:34:38,212 --> 00:34:41,542
And you'd go and put in, you know, a
dollar a week or whatever your pocket

556
00:34:41,542 --> 00:34:43,132
money into your savings account.

557
00:34:43,582 --> 00:34:49,042
And it was conditioning us to understand
the concept of building for the

558
00:34:49,042 --> 00:34:51,652
future, saving for the things you want.

559
00:34:52,192 --> 00:34:54,382
You know, it wasn't about
instant gratification.

560
00:34:55,162 --> 00:34:58,312
There was certainly no
buy now, pay later, right?

561
00:34:58,312 --> 00:35:01,822
There was no, let's whack it on a
credit card, have the thing now to

562
00:35:01,822 --> 00:35:05,962
satisfy our immediate desire, and
then worry about how we're going to

563
00:35:05,962 --> 00:35:10,642
pay for it at 20% interest tomorrow
and the next day and the next year.

564
00:35:11,452 --> 00:35:16,282
I mean, that is a function of how
broken society and money has become.

565
00:35:17,197 --> 00:35:19,807
You know, over the past 20, 30 years.

566
00:35:20,767 --> 00:35:29,197
So, you know, what Bitcoin enables us to
do is to return to calm, to restore our

567
00:35:29,197 --> 00:35:32,527
belief in the future, to restore hope.

568
00:35:33,217 --> 00:35:38,227
And this is why I've, uh, helped my
kids to really understand, you know,

569
00:35:38,227 --> 00:35:41,227
I've got, like I said earlier, three,
three daughters in their twenties.

570
00:35:42,547 --> 00:35:44,797
You know, one of them is
already in the housing market.

571
00:35:44,917 --> 00:35:49,147
My daughter, who recently had our
first, uh, grandchild, um, she's

572
00:35:49,147 --> 00:35:49,987
been housing Oh, congratulations.

573
00:35:49,987 --> 00:35:51,307
For a few years.

574
00:35:51,307 --> 00:35:51,817
Thank you.

575
00:35:52,087 --> 00:35:52,327
Anja: Yeah.

576
00:35:52,507 --> 00:35:57,187
Zane: But the other two, the
only hope that they have, okay.

577
00:35:57,187 --> 00:36:00,157
Even though they're employed and they've
got good jobs and they're happy in

578
00:36:00,157 --> 00:36:04,027
their, in their, you know, careers
and things like that, is either help

579
00:36:04,027 --> 00:36:06,667
from the bank of mom and dad, right?

580
00:36:06,697 --> 00:36:12,282
Or, or in my view, to saving Bitcoin.

581
00:36:13,987 --> 00:36:15,397
Anja: Are they Bitcoin as your daughter's?

582
00:36:16,522 --> 00:36:20,662
Zane: They, they are not hardcore
bitcoiners, but they're saving in Bitcoin.

583
00:36:20,927 --> 00:36:21,217
Anja: Yeah.

584
00:36:21,717 --> 00:36:22,337
Bi bitcoin

585
00:36:22,337 --> 00:36:23,137
Zane: are by proxy.

586
00:36:24,327 --> 00:36:26,842
Bitcoin are by proxy because dad said so.

587
00:36:27,382 --> 00:36:27,802
Right.

588
00:36:28,072 --> 00:36:32,752
Because dad keeps saying In 15
to 20 years, you'll thank me.

589
00:36:34,402 --> 00:36:36,442
Anja: Yeah, absolutely.

590
00:36:36,442 --> 00:36:36,892
Zane: Well, if they

591
00:36:36,892 --> 00:36:37,222
Anja: wanna

592
00:36:37,222 --> 00:36:38,332
Zane: hear about Bitcoin from

593
00:36:38,332 --> 00:36:40,047
Anja: a lady, I'm here.

594
00:36:42,157 --> 00:36:43,967
Zane: Well they, they
wanna hear from anyone else

595
00:36:44,067 --> 00:36:44,407
Anja: by you.

596
00:36:46,027 --> 00:36:48,592
Zane: We, we need, we need
more ladies in this space.

597
00:36:48,592 --> 00:36:50,092
A hundred percent agree with you.

598
00:36:51,262 --> 00:36:56,482
Anja: Look, I think there's more coming
into this space because Yeah, like I

599
00:36:56,482 --> 00:36:59,062
remember my first kind of Bitcoin event.

600
00:36:59,422 --> 00:37:03,952
I gravitated towards women
because it was just, you know,

601
00:37:04,072 --> 00:37:06,982
more, I was more comfortable to
ask them like dumb questions.

602
00:37:07,552 --> 00:37:11,842
And as more women come in, that
attracts more women naturally.

603
00:37:11,842 --> 00:37:14,992
So now when I go to events, it's
really beautiful to see that.

604
00:37:15,607 --> 00:37:19,717
You know, the men that used to go to
these meetups for years are now bringing

605
00:37:19,717 --> 00:37:23,257
their wives because they'll have someone
to talk to, they'll bring in their kids.

606
00:37:23,257 --> 00:37:26,887
Like, it's, it's now turning
real like, into really beautiful

607
00:37:26,887 --> 00:37:28,267
family friendly community.

608
00:37:28,267 --> 00:37:30,637
And that's what I'm really,
really mostly proud of.

609
00:37:31,027 --> 00:37:31,892
Um, yeah.

610
00:37:31,897 --> 00:37:32,167
Yeah.

611
00:37:32,197 --> 00:37:34,897
So definitely bring your
kids, bring your wife.

612
00:37:37,177 --> 00:37:41,797
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and secure your Bitcoin Australia's

613
00:37:41,797 --> 00:37:43,387
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614
00:37:43,537 --> 00:37:47,977
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devices, nodes, and backup solutions?

615
00:37:48,277 --> 00:37:53,302
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apparel, visit shop bitcoin.com au.

616
00:37:56,857 --> 00:37:57,247
Zane: Yeah.

617
00:37:58,212 --> 00:37:58,492
Absolutely.

618
00:37:59,587 --> 00:38:04,747
Now the more, the more that you can,
you know, help to educate those close to

619
00:38:04,747 --> 00:38:07,717
you, uh, about what this is, the better.

620
00:38:07,777 --> 00:38:09,697
It's not always easy, right.

621
00:38:10,117 --> 00:38:16,717
Um, you know, a lot of, in a lot of
situations, uh, you know, you've got two,

622
00:38:17,047 --> 00:38:21,637
two people, partners, spouses, whatever
you wanna call it, and one's gung ho

623
00:38:21,637 --> 00:38:26,887
and it's like, I really see this and
I believe in this and I wanna do this.

624
00:38:26,887 --> 00:38:29,677
And the other one's like,
oh, I'm not really sure.

625
00:38:29,737 --> 00:38:30,727
You know, and they kind of.

626
00:38:31,282 --> 00:38:34,582
Either along for the ride,
but one person's driving it or

627
00:38:34,582 --> 00:38:37,402
they're like, no, dead against it.

628
00:38:37,462 --> 00:38:38,242
We're not doing it.

629
00:38:38,302 --> 00:38:40,432
Or you go for your life.

630
00:38:40,492 --> 00:38:42,982
I don't believe in it, but go for it.

631
00:38:43,072 --> 00:38:43,402
You know?

632
00:38:43,402 --> 00:38:45,622
So it's, it's kind of a mixed bag.

633
00:38:45,892 --> 00:38:49,912
Um, but I do find, like we've got,
uh, quite a few couples actually

634
00:38:49,912 --> 00:38:53,842
who are in, in my community, in my
Bitcoin Success Circle community,

635
00:38:53,902 --> 00:38:55,522
uh, who are on the same page.

636
00:38:56,212 --> 00:39:00,802
And that that is, that is beautiful to
see when, when, uh, when couples are

637
00:39:00,802 --> 00:39:05,482
able to, um, see the same things, right?

638
00:39:05,482 --> 00:39:08,482
I mean, they live the same lives in
a lot of ways, so they, they can kind

639
00:39:08,482 --> 00:39:11,662
of sense the same challenges, I guess.

640
00:39:12,352 --> 00:39:17,932
Um, but I think, you know, uh, to
have a situation where they both see

641
00:39:18,172 --> 00:39:24,172
Bitcoin as a solution, um, it's not that
common, you know, it's not that common.

642
00:39:25,042 --> 00:39:26,547
But I think it'll improve, you know.

643
00:39:27,907 --> 00:39:31,267
As people realize that Bitcoin
is, is definitely a solution.

644
00:39:32,287 --> 00:39:33,607
Anja: Yeah, absolutely.

645
00:39:33,607 --> 00:39:37,597
And I really, really hope to see
that change happen in Australia.

646
00:39:37,597 --> 00:39:41,287
It, it feels like we're, you're right,
like it feels like we're so early and

647
00:39:41,527 --> 00:39:46,747
like we discussed just before we actually
started recording, it feels that most of

648
00:39:46,747 --> 00:39:49,897
the people joining the space are Gen Xs.

649
00:39:50,347 --> 00:39:54,457
Um, and I've noticed that as well
through the meetups that I, um,

650
00:39:54,547 --> 00:39:56,137
organize here in Northern Rivers.

651
00:39:57,577 --> 00:40:00,247
And I assume that also has to do with.

652
00:40:01,552 --> 00:40:03,472
Being the ones that have money.

653
00:40:03,527 --> 00:40:08,482
I, I feel younger people in particular,
like millennials and Gen Zs have a

654
00:40:08,482 --> 00:40:13,042
much higher time preference because
they were born into a, a digital world.

655
00:40:13,042 --> 00:40:17,422
They were, you know, born in on,
on the TV screens and the iPads and

656
00:40:17,422 --> 00:40:21,082
the iPhones, and they're constantly
like, you know, disengaged.

657
00:40:21,082 --> 00:40:28,492
So I, yeah, I, I'd love to know like how
we can help younger generations as well.

658
00:40:28,552 --> 00:40:29,962
Um, I don't have the answers.

659
00:40:30,832 --> 00:40:31,102
Zane: Yeah.

660
00:40:31,102 --> 00:40:35,992
Look, it's, it, it's not easy because
like you said, just the, the environment

661
00:40:35,992 --> 00:40:37,882
that they've, that they've grown up in.

662
00:40:37,882 --> 00:40:44,422
But I think there's this inner sense
and you that, you know, young people

663
00:40:44,422 --> 00:40:51,352
now, um, they are sort of looking
around themselves, you know, their,

664
00:40:51,352 --> 00:40:56,992
their situation and they're going,
okay, we've got a problem here because.

665
00:40:58,327 --> 00:41:04,267
You know, I'm, I'm trying to get
out of home and I have to share a

666
00:41:04,267 --> 00:41:10,567
house with two or three other people
because rents are out of control.

667
00:41:10,567 --> 00:41:14,137
I only earn this much
money per week, right?

668
00:41:14,137 --> 00:41:19,297
And so if I'm giving half of it away to
my rent, right, then I need to share with

669
00:41:19,417 --> 00:41:22,057
other, I mean, some people, if they're
on their own, they'd probably be giving

670
00:41:22,057 --> 00:41:23,617
away a hundred percent in rent, right?

671
00:41:23,617 --> 00:41:28,057
And this is why, you know, wages just
haven't kept up with real inflation.

672
00:41:28,057 --> 00:41:33,127
And so people are now having to
compromise their life, uh, in

673
00:41:33,127 --> 00:41:34,867
order to just survive, right?

674
00:41:34,867 --> 00:41:38,467
And so in that environment,
they're not saying to themself,

675
00:41:39,367 --> 00:41:40,777
how do I start a family?

676
00:41:41,077 --> 00:41:41,827
How to buy?

677
00:41:41,887 --> 00:41:43,357
You know, where can I buy a home?

678
00:41:43,357 --> 00:41:45,667
And, you know, let's plan
for the next five years.

679
00:41:45,667 --> 00:41:46,537
Let's save.

680
00:41:47,257 --> 00:41:51,697
You know, our, our, our bums off so
that we can get into the housing market.

681
00:41:52,387 --> 00:41:56,947
Um, you know, a lot, a lot of
young people I come across just via

682
00:41:56,947 --> 00:41:59,257
association through my, my own kids.

683
00:41:59,917 --> 00:42:03,307
Uh, I think that they've just
kind of, they're just handing

684
00:42:03,307 --> 00:42:05,557
it over to the universe and
they're saying, you know what?

685
00:42:05,917 --> 00:42:08,647
Let's just enjoy our life, right?

686
00:42:09,577 --> 00:42:12,667
Forget trying to plan too
far ahead for the future.

687
00:42:13,297 --> 00:42:20,557
Um, let's just enjoy our life because
it's really difficult and it is a

688
00:42:20,557 --> 00:42:24,457
real headache to try and think about
it all the time and how we're gonna

689
00:42:24,457 --> 00:42:26,797
get, get through this situation.

690
00:42:27,337 --> 00:42:29,347
Um, and so they're just living for today.

691
00:42:29,347 --> 00:42:31,777
And, and I mean, I heard
some statistics recently.

692
00:42:32,647 --> 00:42:37,717
Uh, I think that the average
age now of young women who are

693
00:42:37,717 --> 00:42:42,427
having children in this country
is now out to 32 years of age.

694
00:42:43,207 --> 00:42:43,447
Anja: Yeah.

695
00:42:43,507 --> 00:42:45,037
Zane: And they're only having one.

696
00:42:46,342 --> 00:42:46,732
Right.

697
00:42:47,422 --> 00:42:50,212
But that's okay because we'll
import everybody from all over

698
00:42:50,272 --> 00:42:54,712
the rest of the world to fill the
gaps, to build the population.

699
00:42:54,742 --> 00:42:57,082
But if you fast forward that scenario,

700
00:42:57,892 --> 00:42:57,982
Anja: andp up.

701
00:42:58,972 --> 00:42:59,242
Zane: Yeah.

702
00:42:59,272 --> 00:43:03,262
But if you fast forward that a, a
generation or two, this country's

703
00:43:03,262 --> 00:43:05,002
gonna become unrecognizable.

704
00:43:05,872 --> 00:43:05,992
Speaker 3: Yeah.

705
00:43:06,052 --> 00:43:07,972
Zane: It's gonna completely
destroy our culture.

706
00:43:08,932 --> 00:43:09,112
Right.

707
00:43:09,142 --> 00:43:12,772
'cause if you, if, if, if Aussies
aren't reproducing and having

708
00:43:12,772 --> 00:43:15,952
kids because they can't Right.

709
00:43:15,952 --> 00:43:17,452
Or life's just too challenging.

710
00:43:17,452 --> 00:43:21,832
I mean, if you are a young person in
your, you know, early to mid twenties

711
00:43:22,222 --> 00:43:25,342
and you are flat out just supporting
yourself, the last thing on earth

712
00:43:25,342 --> 00:43:30,382
you're thinking about is settling down,
having kids buying, you know, it's just,

713
00:43:30,382 --> 00:43:32,962
it's just too much to even comprehend.

714
00:43:34,072 --> 00:43:36,712
Um, so, you know, how does
Bitcoin tie into this?

715
00:43:36,712 --> 00:43:42,172
Well, what Bitcoin is
essentially is, is it enables.

716
00:43:42,832 --> 00:43:46,102
You to preserve your purchasing
power over a long period of time.

717
00:43:46,102 --> 00:43:51,832
So it restores hope in terms of
your ability to plan for the future.

718
00:43:51,832 --> 00:43:56,452
Because all of a sudden now, even though
you are earning Aussie dollars or you are

719
00:43:56,452 --> 00:44:02,752
earning US dollars, what you're doing is
you are now saving a portion of that, that

720
00:44:02,752 --> 00:44:10,252
income as much as you possibly can into an
incorruptible, deflationary form of money.

721
00:44:10,252 --> 00:44:15,172
So a, a money that can't be printed,
a money that can't steal from you,

722
00:44:15,292 --> 00:44:19,702
steal from you through inflation,
you know, and, and so that, that's

723
00:44:19,732 --> 00:44:25,972
what enables you now to plan for the
next, you know, 10, 15, 20 years.

724
00:44:26,812 --> 00:44:32,152
So that, you know, even if you, let's
say you were able to acquire 10% of a

725
00:44:32,152 --> 00:44:34,792
Bitcoin, I mean, right now, what's that?

726
00:44:34,792 --> 00:44:39,352
It's about nine and a half thousand
to 10,000 Australian dollars at

727
00:44:39,352 --> 00:44:41,512
today's, at today's exchange rate.

728
00:44:42,397 --> 00:44:48,397
That might not sound like a life-changing
amount of an investment to hold, but

729
00:44:48,397 --> 00:44:54,637
when you consider Bitcoin's scarcity
proposition, right, only 21 million, a

730
00:44:55,147 --> 00:44:57,247
hundred million Satoshis per Bitcoin.

731
00:44:57,337 --> 00:45:02,287
So the entire monetary system is
worth 2.1 quadrillion Satoshis, and

732
00:45:02,287 --> 00:45:04,657
this is another thing that a lot
of people don't understand you, you

733
00:45:04,657 --> 00:45:06,187
don't have to buy one whole Bitcoin.

734
00:45:06,187 --> 00:45:10,327
You can buy fractions of a
Bitcoin, but I've said to my kids,

735
00:45:10,357 --> 00:45:13,117
0.1, that's 10% of a Bitcoin.

736
00:45:13,447 --> 00:45:14,137
It's a target.

737
00:45:14,137 --> 00:45:15,547
It's just an arbitrary figure.

738
00:45:15,547 --> 00:45:17,767
But it's a nice round
number for you to aim for.

739
00:45:18,637 --> 00:45:20,647
That's 10 million Satoshis.

740
00:45:21,247 --> 00:45:24,097
And one day a Satoshi will be worth $1.

741
00:45:24,937 --> 00:45:25,087
Anja: Yeah,

742
00:45:25,327 --> 00:45:25,807
Zane: okay.

743
00:45:25,897 --> 00:45:31,477
Now I might not be alive to see it, but
I'm quite confident that you will be.

744
00:45:33,067 --> 00:45:36,982
You know, and, and so when they start
to understand this, you understand

745
00:45:36,982 --> 00:45:39,787
the power of compounding scarcity.

746
00:45:41,092 --> 00:45:41,992
Global demand.

747
00:45:41,992 --> 00:45:46,132
I mean, we we're still at five, 6%
global adoption, which basically

748
00:45:46,132 --> 00:45:50,572
means that 95% of the world still
has no exposure yet to Bitcoin.

749
00:45:52,012 --> 00:45:56,632
So when you start to look at the,
the historical adoption rates of

750
00:45:56,632 --> 00:46:01,582
technologies like the iPhone and the
internet, you know, and Uber, and

751
00:46:01,972 --> 00:46:04,882
you know, all of these other, these
technologies that have been in our

752
00:46:04,882 --> 00:46:08,752
lifetime, they don't happen overnight.

753
00:46:08,782 --> 00:46:13,492
They take time gradually, but then
all of a sudden it's like somebody

754
00:46:13,492 --> 00:46:17,242
turns on the light switch and then
the whole world just embraces it.

755
00:46:18,232 --> 00:46:20,812
And, and this is exactly what's
gonna happen with Bitcoin, which is

756
00:46:20,812 --> 00:46:24,172
gonna drive its value proposition.

757
00:46:25,462 --> 00:46:25,942
Why?

758
00:46:26,212 --> 00:46:27,802
Because they can't create any more of it.

759
00:46:28,342 --> 00:46:31,462
You know, when you're saving
Bitcoin, it's like granite.

760
00:46:32,272 --> 00:46:34,012
It's just, it just sits there.

761
00:46:34,372 --> 00:46:40,702
And, and, and over time it just
accumulates value because of, its, because

762
00:46:40,702 --> 00:46:43,462
of, its, its inherent scarcity, you know?

763
00:46:43,462 --> 00:46:48,202
And, and when you understand supply
and demand, limited supply, scarce,

764
00:46:48,202 --> 00:46:53,002
desirable asset, unlimited demand
coming for that limited supply

765
00:46:53,002 --> 00:46:57,862
item, economics 1 0 1, what's gonna
happen to the, to the value of it?

766
00:46:58,372 --> 00:47:01,462
It's just gonna go like
that, but it'll take time.

767
00:47:02,512 --> 00:47:04,222
Anja: Yeah, absolutely.

768
00:47:04,222 --> 00:47:08,122
And, and yeah, like when you think
about historical adoption of like

769
00:47:08,212 --> 00:47:13,222
credit and debit cards, that took
about 60 years to implement globally.

770
00:47:13,222 --> 00:47:17,002
So we're like, what, 17 years
into the Bitcoin experiment?

771
00:47:18,232 --> 00:47:21,472
And, and yeah, like sometimes
it feels like things are moving

772
00:47:21,472 --> 00:47:25,282
really slow, but in reality the
adoption is moving really fast.

773
00:47:25,282 --> 00:47:30,262
We already have a 2 trillion, or it's
less than 2 trillion now, but um.

774
00:47:30,982 --> 00:47:34,612
An asset class that's grown
faster than anything ever has.

775
00:47:34,612 --> 00:47:39,112
Like no other form of money has
grown as fast as Bitcoin has.

776
00:47:39,112 --> 00:47:43,612
Gold took, you know, 5,000
years to be what it is today,

777
00:47:43,642 --> 00:47:46,402
and Bitcoin is taking way less.

778
00:47:46,492 --> 00:47:51,652
Um, so yeah, I just, I
obviously am a huge fan

779
00:47:53,752 --> 00:47:54,067
of Bitcoin and

780
00:47:54,067 --> 00:47:58,852
Zane: yeah, but, but the other point
there too, Anja, about adoption, you

781
00:47:58,852 --> 00:48:02,542
know, I'm not sure whether the listeners
are aware of this, but just in the

782
00:48:02,542 --> 00:48:10,012
last couple of days, uh, square, which
is the merchant payment application

783
00:48:11,332 --> 00:48:15,292
owned by Jack Dorsey, who was the
founder of Twitter, and he sold it

784
00:48:15,292 --> 00:48:17,722
to Elon Musk a couple of years ago.

785
00:48:18,202 --> 00:48:19,972
But he's a tech guy, right?

786
00:48:19,972 --> 00:48:20,842
He sees the future.

787
00:48:20,842 --> 00:48:23,272
He's a, he's a billionaire entrepreneur.

788
00:48:23,272 --> 00:48:24,652
He's a very, very clever guy.

789
00:48:25,702 --> 00:48:27,352
So he's company Square.

790
00:48:28,402 --> 00:48:34,672
Just in the last few days has auto enabled
Bitcoin payments on their platform.

791
00:48:35,992 --> 00:48:39,532
So this is the kind of stuff,
this is the inflection point

792
00:48:39,532 --> 00:48:40,792
where we're at, right, right now.

793
00:48:40,792 --> 00:48:45,352
Now this isn't happening in Australia
yet, but it doesn't need to.

794
00:48:45,357 --> 00:48:47,002
Bitcoin is a global asset.

795
00:48:47,002 --> 00:48:50,422
If you have allocation to
Bitcoin, you are operating in

796
00:48:50,422 --> 00:48:53,752
a global monetary system, okay?

797
00:48:53,752 --> 00:48:58,672
You don't need to be in America to
benefit from the adoption in America.

798
00:48:59,272 --> 00:48:59,692
Okay?

799
00:49:00,052 --> 00:49:06,502
And so the point about this is that
once you start going down to your local

800
00:49:06,982 --> 00:49:14,182
coffee shop, or your hairdresser, or
your mechanic or your baker, and they

801
00:49:14,182 --> 00:49:20,662
use Square to accept their credit card or
debit card payments, now all of a sudden.

802
00:49:21,607 --> 00:49:26,437
You are going to see a little
placard on their desk saying,

803
00:49:26,437 --> 00:49:28,807
now accepting Bitcoin, right?

804
00:49:28,807 --> 00:49:29,737
Some will do that.

805
00:49:29,917 --> 00:49:32,407
Not everyone will, but that
will generate awareness.

806
00:49:32,437 --> 00:49:34,657
And also on the platform, guess what?

807
00:49:34,657 --> 00:49:36,487
You've got the option
now to pay in Bitcoin.

808
00:49:37,897 --> 00:49:42,307
So just think about like,
this is how adoption grows.

809
00:49:43,717 --> 00:49:44,137
Okay?

810
00:49:44,167 --> 00:49:48,337
When awareness grows and then people
think to themselves, well, hold on.

811
00:49:48,787 --> 00:49:53,587
This Bitcoin thing, I thought it was
just like a, a place to put your money

812
00:49:53,587 --> 00:49:59,407
and it kind of 10 Xd, like it was like
a, you know, digital gold or no, no.

813
00:49:59,677 --> 00:50:02,767
Bitcoin is actually
peer-to-peer electronic cash.

814
00:50:03,967 --> 00:50:10,057
And if you've read the Bitcoin white
paper, Satoshi Nakamoto, the anonymous

815
00:50:10,057 --> 00:50:15,217
figure who created Bitcoin, who released
the Bitcoin White paper nine page

816
00:50:15,217 --> 00:50:20,092
document, which you can Google and
download for yourself in October, 2009.

817
00:50:21,082 --> 00:50:25,372
2008, sorry, one month after
the commencement of the GFC,

818
00:50:25,372 --> 00:50:27,112
the global financial crisis.

819
00:50:27,202 --> 00:50:30,682
The front line, the, the
heading on that document says

820
00:50:30,682 --> 00:50:32,392
peer-to-peer electronic cash.

821
00:50:33,682 --> 00:50:37,132
And so people are gonna realize,
well, the next phase in Bitcoin

822
00:50:37,132 --> 00:50:43,042
adoption is not people, um, you
know, hoarding Bitcoin to get rich.

823
00:50:44,362 --> 00:50:49,132
It's, they're going to wanna store their
savings in Bitcoin and spend and replace.

824
00:50:49,132 --> 00:50:53,692
They want to, they're going to wanna
utilize Bitcoin as a medium of exchange.

825
00:50:54,382 --> 00:50:59,002
And this is what happens with
all monetary instruments.

826
00:50:59,332 --> 00:51:03,352
You know, they start as like a
hobby, you know, a bit of a joke.

827
00:51:03,592 --> 00:51:05,752
People are kind of not
really paying attention.

828
00:51:05,752 --> 00:51:09,922
There's just a, a few people sort
of, you know, over on the sidelines

829
00:51:09,922 --> 00:51:11,302
just playing around with it.

830
00:51:11,392 --> 00:51:14,062
Then all of a sudden it
becomes like, well, hang on.

831
00:51:14,062 --> 00:51:17,932
This is, this is something, but you
know, these, these people are silly,

832
00:51:17,932 --> 00:51:19,402
so we're gonna start laughing at them.

833
00:51:19,987 --> 00:51:20,287
Hang on.

834
00:51:20,287 --> 00:51:24,187
Now this is gained a bit more
adoption, but uh, this is actually

835
00:51:24,247 --> 00:51:25,687
looking like it could be a threat.

836
00:51:25,687 --> 00:51:27,877
Now we're gonna attack them, right?

837
00:51:27,877 --> 00:51:31,297
And now it's like, uh, this
thing actually is gaining a bit

838
00:51:31,297 --> 00:51:32,707
more momentum than we thought.

839
00:51:32,767 --> 00:51:34,327
Uh, and it can't be stopped.

840
00:51:34,387 --> 00:51:37,837
Um, well, we actually want
a piece of this, right?

841
00:51:37,837 --> 00:51:41,887
And this is exactly what's happened with
Wall Street and the SEC and all that

842
00:51:41,887 --> 00:51:44,437
because they know they can't stop Bitcoin.

843
00:51:44,437 --> 00:51:45,277
So what do they do?

844
00:51:45,457 --> 00:51:47,017
They want to participate in it.

845
00:51:47,497 --> 00:51:52,087
They wanna make fees from it, they
wanna hoard it and make it available

846
00:51:52,087 --> 00:51:54,337
to their financial planning clients.

847
00:51:54,337 --> 00:51:58,687
Or you can buy our treasury company
and get exposure to Bitcoin, but

848
00:51:58,717 --> 00:52:00,007
you're not owning real Bitcoin.

849
00:52:00,007 --> 00:52:03,697
If you do that, you're not
participating in the revolution.

850
00:52:03,697 --> 00:52:06,517
All you're doing is getting
exposure to number go up.

851
00:52:07,297 --> 00:52:11,557
But if anything happens to the,
to those companies, you lose, it

852
00:52:11,557 --> 00:52:14,077
impacts your, your, your, your money.

853
00:52:15,847 --> 00:52:18,007
Speaker 5: Not your keys, not your coins.

854
00:52:18,547 --> 00:52:22,627
If you're holding Bitcoin, your self
custody setup needs to be done right.

855
00:52:23,377 --> 00:52:27,877
Mine racks delivers paranoia grade
security so that you can sleep at night

856
00:52:27,877 --> 00:52:29,917
knowing that your money is protected.

857
00:52:30,787 --> 00:52:33,667
Take control and secure
your money the honest way.

858
00:52:34,057 --> 00:52:37,447
Head to mine racks.com/honest Money.

859
00:52:38,312 --> 00:52:39,722
Anja: Yeah, I absolutely love that.

860
00:52:39,722 --> 00:52:43,892
And to me, that's one of the
main things that made Bitcoin

861
00:52:43,892 --> 00:52:46,652
click in into my mind for me.

862
00:52:46,652 --> 00:52:51,962
So I definitely, even if I had understood
Bitcoin a lot better, say back in

863
00:52:51,962 --> 00:52:57,722
2013 and 14, I'm the sort of adopter,
I'm early, but not the earliest.

864
00:52:57,722 --> 00:52:58,952
I like, I'm not a pioneer.

865
00:52:58,952 --> 00:53:04,832
So all the, you know, cipher punks,
libertarians, Austrian economists

866
00:53:04,832 --> 00:53:10,592
that, that were part of those early
discussion forums, treated Bitcoin as

867
00:53:10,592 --> 00:53:15,602
a collectible and I guess the protocol
and the network had to grow resilient

868
00:53:15,602 --> 00:53:19,952
enough and be tested through the
China ban, through the block size war.

869
00:53:20,822 --> 00:53:25,382
You know, major 80 and
90% go down corrections.

870
00:53:25,382 --> 00:53:25,562
Yep.

871
00:53:25,592 --> 00:53:26,032
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

872
00:53:26,342 --> 00:53:33,182
So that's why I came in at a hundred
thousand Australian dollars because by

873
00:53:33,182 --> 00:53:37,472
the time I came in there was institutional
validation, there was regulatory

874
00:53:37,472 --> 00:53:42,722
clarity, there was people in, you know,
that I respected the intellectuals

875
00:53:42,722 --> 00:53:45,842
that were like saying, Hey, this is a
thing, like you should pay attention.

876
00:53:45,842 --> 00:53:49,562
So I'm still like an early adopter
in the big scheme of things.

877
00:53:49,982 --> 00:53:56,792
Um, but yeah, like it's now definitely
not store of value in the west.

878
00:53:57,932 --> 00:54:00,872
You know, global South uses
it as a medium of exchange.

879
00:54:00,872 --> 00:54:02,072
Different countries have.

880
00:54:02,882 --> 00:54:06,722
It's not like it's, it's linear
adoption everywhere, globally.

881
00:54:06,722 --> 00:54:08,702
It's happening at different rates.

882
00:54:09,152 --> 00:54:10,502
And that's what I love about it.

883
00:54:10,502 --> 00:54:14,822
It's just like seeing the bigger picture
behind Bitcoin adoption, not just, you

884
00:54:14,822 --> 00:54:19,262
know, what you think about, about in
your own little corner of the world.

885
00:54:19,922 --> 00:54:24,872
Um, but I'm really curious to know that
person that mentioned it to you back in

886
00:54:24,872 --> 00:54:27,932
2013, are you still in contact with them?

887
00:54:27,932 --> 00:54:29,087
Are they still a Bitcoin?

888
00:54:29,088 --> 00:54:29,098
No,

889
00:54:30,507 --> 00:54:30,727
Zane: no.

890
00:54:30,727 --> 00:54:36,152
They, he was, uh, his name's Dave and
he was a, um, he was a part of our crew

891
00:54:36,212 --> 00:54:40,802
back in the day when we used to, we
used to run our workshops and, uh, he

892
00:54:40,802 --> 00:54:44,672
was, he was a lovely fellow, but, uh,
yeah, I lost contact with him maybe

893
00:54:45,062 --> 00:54:46,622
during COVID or something like that.

894
00:54:46,622 --> 00:54:48,812
I mean, we, we stopped
running our events company.

895
00:54:49,052 --> 00:54:53,012
Uh, COVID kind of put a stop to it, but
because we'd been doing it for so long.

896
00:54:53,612 --> 00:54:55,952
We were at a point where we were
trying to, looking for an excuse

897
00:54:55,952 --> 00:54:57,572
to exit the industry anyway.

898
00:54:57,572 --> 00:54:59,012
And uh, that was kind of it.

899
00:54:59,012 --> 00:55:02,612
So it was, but yeah, lost, lost
touch with a number of people.

900
00:55:02,642 --> 00:55:07,832
Um, but yeah, uh, be, I would be actually
curious to, if I can look him up somehow

901
00:55:07,832 --> 00:55:11,972
and find out whether he's, he's still
got his Bitcoin from 2013 because,

902
00:55:12,302 --> 00:55:15,092
because if he has, uh, I'm sure he is.

903
00:55:15,092 --> 00:55:18,632
Uh, he's on a yacht somewhere in
the south of France or something.

904
00:55:18,722 --> 00:55:21,452
Anja: Well, Dave, if you're
listening, I hope you've held on.

905
00:55:22,952 --> 00:55:25,532
Zane: Exactly, exactly.

906
00:55:26,312 --> 00:55:30,212
Anja: Yeah, no, I, I'm completely like,
I know a few people who got in very

907
00:55:30,212 --> 00:55:36,482
early and of all the testing times,
they all kind of concur that the block

908
00:55:36,482 --> 00:55:41,492
size wars was probably the toughest
time because, uh, people who were

909
00:55:41,492 --> 00:55:47,672
in Bitcoin very early on, they knew
how to ignore, not ignore, but like

910
00:55:48,992 --> 00:55:50,522
there's so much fud, right?

911
00:55:50,522 --> 00:55:55,082
Fear, uncertainty, doubt around Bitcoin
in the early days, and, and it's still

912
00:55:55,592 --> 00:56:01,232
still lagging on, um, around the en
energy use, that it's a Ponzi schemes,

913
00:56:01,232 --> 00:56:04,587
that it's tulips, that it was created
by, by this government's gonna ban,

914
00:56:06,127 --> 00:56:07,592
the governments are gonna ban it.

915
00:56:07,592 --> 00:56:08,402
All these things.

916
00:56:08,402 --> 00:56:12,062
And, and anyone who's done the
work to understand it knows.

917
00:56:12,902 --> 00:56:15,152
Like to that, that's just noise, right?

918
00:56:15,572 --> 00:56:21,242
But where people weren't sure, um,
was the block size wars, because that

919
00:56:21,242 --> 00:56:27,212
was like an internal civil war that
happened between Bitcoiners and Yeah.

920
00:56:27,212 --> 00:56:33,332
So I, I actually do know some people
who have sold, um, when it was critical

921
00:56:33,332 --> 00:56:35,852
not to, and live, to regret it.

922
00:56:35,852 --> 00:56:38,522
And even went through, like,
one of my good friends, um, went

923
00:56:38,522 --> 00:56:42,932
through a phase where he just like
absolutely hated Bitcoin and was

924
00:56:42,962 --> 00:56:48,272
actively discouraging people in his
life, um, from, from purchasing it.

925
00:56:48,272 --> 00:56:51,512
And he, and then he eventually,
he found his way back to Bitcoin.

926
00:56:51,932 --> 00:56:55,952
Um, but that must be really
tough psychologically, you know,

927
00:56:56,492 --> 00:56:59,882
giving up on it, then realizing,
oh damn it, I was wrong.

928
00:56:59,882 --> 00:57:03,422
You know, it, it, it takes a big
person to realize, like get over

929
00:57:03,422 --> 00:57:07,412
their ego and, and, you know, admit
that they were wrong about it.

930
00:57:07,832 --> 00:57:08,342
Um.

931
00:57:09,047 --> 00:57:09,377
Yeah.

932
00:57:10,487 --> 00:57:10,877
Zane: Yeah.

933
00:57:11,117 --> 00:57:11,957
No, I agree.

934
00:57:11,957 --> 00:57:16,397
And look, I, I haven't, I haven't read
the book, uh, about the block size wars,

935
00:57:16,397 --> 00:57:20,477
but it is on my list because I believe
it's a really, really interesting book.

936
00:57:20,477 --> 00:57:25,067
And, you know, just for the viewers,
I, I guess, uh, and the listeners

937
00:57:25,067 --> 00:57:27,827
and you know, who, who have no
idea what we're talking about.

938
00:57:28,817 --> 00:57:35,417
When, when Satoshi created
Bitcoin, he sacrificed speed for

939
00:57:35,477 --> 00:57:37,457
decentralization and security.

940
00:57:38,297 --> 00:57:38,807
Okay.

941
00:57:39,137 --> 00:57:45,377
And that has been the thing that has,
uh, stood the test of time for Bitcoin.

942
00:57:45,377 --> 00:57:49,877
And that's the reason why Bitcoin is
still here, because decentralization

943
00:57:49,877 --> 00:57:55,487
and security is, is what makes Bitcoin
so powerful as a monetary network.

944
00:57:55,487 --> 00:57:57,287
It's the reason why
it's never been hacked.

945
00:57:57,617 --> 00:58:02,417
It's the reason why these, you know,
these challenges to Bitcoin's protocol

946
00:58:02,417 --> 00:58:05,297
have always been thwarted, right?

947
00:58:05,297 --> 00:58:06,497
And it's the reason why.

948
00:58:07,067 --> 00:58:11,687
These breakaways that have
attempted to be the new Bitcoin,

949
00:58:11,687 --> 00:58:13,667
they've all failed, right?

950
00:58:13,667 --> 00:58:19,037
Because you need a D, you need something
that is, is like granite right now.

951
00:58:19,127 --> 00:58:22,127
Now the thing about speed is
Bitcoin doesn't need speed.

952
00:58:22,127 --> 00:58:25,067
Now what we're talking about
with speed is transactional.

953
00:58:25,697 --> 00:58:31,307
Like if Anja, you know, sends me her
Bitcoin wallet address, you know, and

954
00:58:31,307 --> 00:58:35,927
she wants me to send her, you know,
let's say, I don't know, $5,000 in

955
00:58:35,927 --> 00:58:42,857
Bitcoin, typically I would use an an
on chain base layer Bitcoin transaction

956
00:58:42,857 --> 00:58:44,717
for a transaction of that size.

957
00:58:45,377 --> 00:58:50,027
And she may not see the Bitcoin in
her wallet for at least, you know, 10

958
00:58:50,027 --> 00:58:52,157
to 12 minutes, something like that.

959
00:58:52,157 --> 00:58:56,117
Because a Bitcoin transaction
on the base layer is settled.

960
00:58:56,897 --> 00:58:59,897
Uh, every 10 minutes or blocks
are settled every 10 minutes.

961
00:58:59,897 --> 00:59:02,357
And if that transaction
gets picked up by a miner.

962
00:59:02,897 --> 00:59:03,947
In the next block.

963
00:59:04,127 --> 00:59:07,667
She may have it sooner, but typically
speaking somewhere around 10 to, you

964
00:59:07,667 --> 00:59:10,787
know, 10 to 12 minutes, depending
on the size, it might be even longer

965
00:59:10,787 --> 00:59:12,707
if it's a really small transaction.

966
00:59:13,457 --> 00:59:17,687
So what this essentially means is, is
that to utilize Bitcoin for buying a

967
00:59:17,687 --> 00:59:21,227
cup of coffee, it doesn't work right.

968
00:59:21,227 --> 00:59:25,547
But, but when we, when we talk about
utilizing Bitcoin for payments for

969
00:59:25,547 --> 00:59:31,817
micropayments, like buying a five or $7
cup of coffee, what we're talking about is

970
00:59:32,147 --> 00:59:37,367
the layer two solution that sits on top of
the Bitcoin main chain called lightning.

971
00:59:38,147 --> 00:59:43,487
And so there are these, all of
these layer two solutions and layer

972
00:59:43,487 --> 00:59:48,917
threes that are coming online now
that enable Bitcoin payments, right?

973
00:59:49,337 --> 00:59:51,287
For speed, for instant settlement.

974
00:59:51,887 --> 00:59:52,067
Anja: Yeah.

975
00:59:52,337 --> 00:59:55,427
Zane: And so they serve that
utility for utilizing Bitcoin

976
00:59:55,427 --> 01:00:00,737
for day-to-day transactions, but
the base layer remains secure.

977
01:00:01,772 --> 01:00:05,702
So there's no compromise in, in,
you know, and this is what, you

978
01:00:05,702 --> 01:00:07,232
know, Bitcoin Cash was trying to do.

979
01:00:07,232 --> 01:00:11,252
They were trying to, you know,
boost the block sizes so that more

980
01:00:11,252 --> 01:00:15,512
transactions could move through
faster and, and more, more, you

981
01:00:15,512 --> 01:00:17,282
know, per, per minute, per second.

982
01:00:17,882 --> 01:00:22,832
Um, and you know, what everybody on
the other side wanted was, no, we,

983
01:00:22,892 --> 01:00:27,812
we want to, we don't wanna sacrifice
bitcoin's, decentralization and security.

984
01:00:27,812 --> 01:00:33,062
And had something like Bitcoin Cash
been able to proliferate, uh, there's

985
01:00:33,062 --> 01:00:36,092
a, there's a school of thought that
it would've had a massive, it would've

986
01:00:36,092 --> 01:00:39,572
been centralized, it would've been
controlled, it would've been co-opted.

987
01:00:40,142 --> 01:00:43,622
Um, and, you know, and so that's
the situation when you hold

988
01:00:43,622 --> 01:00:48,482
Bitcoin, it's like an incorruptible
savings account that you have in

989
01:00:48,482 --> 01:00:52,562
cyberspace that is dependable, okay?

990
01:00:52,562 --> 01:00:57,452
That has an audit performed on it every
10 minutes by way of the way that the

991
01:00:57,452 --> 01:00:59,672
protocol, the consensus protocol works.

992
01:01:00,647 --> 01:01:04,637
But if you would need to spend
Bitcoin in small amounts, you just

993
01:01:04,637 --> 01:01:08,207
utilize a a, a layer two wallet,
such as a lightning wallet, and

994
01:01:08,207 --> 01:01:10,037
you can use it for instant payment.

995
01:01:10,037 --> 01:01:15,377
So if Anja sends me her wallet address
for me, for me to send her 10 bucks, well

996
01:01:15,377 --> 01:01:18,047
she can have it in a couple of seconds.

997
01:01:18,437 --> 01:01:22,577
So that's what makes it useful for,
you know, day-to-day, day-to-day use.

998
01:01:22,577 --> 01:01:27,707
You know, in, in, in America in May last
year, steak and Shake, which is a, a

999
01:01:27,707 --> 01:01:34,367
large, uh, fast food retailer in the us,
they enabled Bitcoin payments for their

1000
01:01:34,367 --> 01:01:41,477
customers and the people who are buying
their burgers and fries with Bitcoin,

1001
01:01:41,567 --> 01:01:46,767
that's what they're using, the Layer two
Lightning wallet to, you know, to, to,

1002
01:01:46,787 --> 01:01:48,827
to make a purchase, uh, uh, like that.

1003
01:01:48,857 --> 01:01:54,047
So, uh, just, yeah, hopefully the
viewers get some, some value from,

1004
01:01:54,047 --> 01:01:55,277
from that little explanation.

1005
01:01:56,117 --> 01:01:57,437
Anja: Yeah, absolutely.

1006
01:01:57,437 --> 01:01:59,297
And lightning is lightning fast.

1007
01:01:59,297 --> 01:02:02,957
Maybe one day, maybe even now, if
you wanna do it, I can send you

1008
01:02:02,957 --> 01:02:06,647
some SATs and we can do a live
demo and how quick it actually is.

1009
01:02:07,697 --> 01:02:13,637
So for viewers and listeners, what
we are doing right now is, I'm

1010
01:02:13,637 --> 01:02:15,737
just gonna send him some SATs.

1011
01:02:16,547 --> 01:02:21,017
Uh, most of you won't be familiar
that Michelle Bullock, the chair

1012
01:02:21,017 --> 01:02:25,302
of the Reserve Bank of Australia,
has made some statements about

1013
01:02:25,427 --> 01:02:27,197
Bitcoin, which are completely false.

1014
01:02:27,737 --> 01:02:33,287
And I think back in 2014, she said,
it's not a currency, it's not money.

1015
01:02:33,287 --> 01:02:34,547
I don't understand it.

1016
01:02:34,967 --> 01:02:36,107
And she also said.

1017
01:02:37,007 --> 01:02:41,657
In a separate, uh, discussion when I
think she was interviewed by one of the

1018
01:02:41,657 --> 01:02:44,357
labor mps, I always forget his name.

1019
01:02:44,807 --> 01:02:48,027
But anyway, he asked her if
she understands Bitcoin and,

1020
01:02:48,047 --> 01:02:49,697
and she said, well, yes I do.

1021
01:02:49,697 --> 01:02:53,537
Like I understand it to be quite
slow, it takes like 15 minutes.

1022
01:02:54,047 --> 01:02:58,427
Um, so yeah, basically if anyone's
listening, Michelle, if you are

1023
01:02:58,427 --> 01:03:02,387
listening, Bitcoin is exactly
on time the way we like it.

1024
01:03:03,047 --> 01:03:11,657
And layer two are the ways to scale
because we want the on chain to stay

1025
01:03:11,657 --> 01:03:14,087
slow and decentralized and secure.

1026
01:03:15,382 --> 01:03:15,962
So, absolutely.

1027
01:03:15,962 --> 01:03:18,017
So this is me sending some SATs.

1028
01:03:19,577 --> 01:03:20,027
And there we go.

1029
01:03:21,467 --> 01:03:22,907
Has that landed in your wallet?

1030
01:03:24,107 --> 01:03:25,607
Zane: This is me receiving the SATs.

1031
01:03:27,437 --> 01:03:29,687
Anja: Did that take 15 minutes?

1032
01:03:31,937 --> 01:03:32,807
Zane: That is so cool.

1033
01:03:33,677 --> 01:03:37,697
That is so cool for, for people
who haven't seen that, that is

1034
01:03:37,697 --> 01:03:40,667
the power of Bitcoin, right there.

1035
01:03:40,877 --> 01:03:43,727
No intermediary, instant settlement.

1036
01:03:44,507 --> 01:03:47,327
And for a merchant, no fees, right?

1037
01:03:47,387 --> 01:03:53,207
Whatever fee, it's, it's, it's like so
micro, it's, but certainly not the one

1038
01:03:53,207 --> 01:03:59,327
and a half, two, three, if you take
Amex, it's up around three, 3.5%, right?

1039
01:03:59,507 --> 01:04:01,097
And no chargebacks.

1040
01:04:01,847 --> 01:04:05,687
So particularly for online shopping, like
you hear more and more of these stories.

1041
01:04:05,687 --> 01:04:09,497
And we used to have an online,
uh, uh, business, uh, e-com

1042
01:04:10,277 --> 01:04:13,007
people buy stuff online, okay?

1043
01:04:13,007 --> 01:04:17,897
And then it gets delivered, and then
they'll go to their bank, right?

1044
01:04:17,897 --> 01:04:21,347
And they'll claim a chargeback
because it didn't arrive or whatever.

1045
01:04:21,347 --> 01:04:25,277
And the bank affects the
chargeback for the merchant

1046
01:04:25,277 --> 01:04:26,897
and then asks questions later.

1047
01:04:28,022 --> 01:04:28,382
Right.

1048
01:04:28,382 --> 01:04:30,182
So this is becoming more
and more of an issue.

1049
01:04:30,182 --> 01:04:37,982
So basically instant settlement,
little to no fees and zero chargebacks.

1050
01:04:38,042 --> 01:04:41,342
So do you think merchants, as
they start to understand this,

1051
01:04:42,332 --> 01:04:45,932
are going to embrace Bitcoin?

1052
01:04:46,562 --> 01:04:52,622
You know, and I, and the way I
understand it, Anja with Square that

1053
01:04:52,922 --> 01:04:57,752
you can, uh, accept the Bitcoin and
then it will convert into dollars.

1054
01:04:57,812 --> 01:05:02,312
So even if your customer wants to pay
you in Bitcoin, but you don't want to,

1055
01:05:03,902 --> 01:05:07,202
you know, hold the Bitcoin, you can
just on, on the back end, there's a

1056
01:05:07,202 --> 01:05:10,832
setting so that you can, it converts
immediately into, into dollars.

1057
01:05:11,912 --> 01:05:15,062
Um, but I think what's gonna happen
over time is more and more merchants

1058
01:05:15,062 --> 01:05:15,932
are gonna go, you know what?

1059
01:05:15,932 --> 01:05:17,552
We want our little Bitcoin stack.

1060
01:05:18,302 --> 01:05:21,362
And then they'll probably end up
incentivizing their customers to pay.

1061
01:05:21,362 --> 01:05:21,932
In Bitcoin.

1062
01:05:22,022 --> 01:05:23,972
Paying Bitcoin, you get a 5% discount.

1063
01:05:24,647 --> 01:05:24,947
Right.

1064
01:05:24,947 --> 01:05:29,987
Or three and a half percent instead of us
paying it to the to Visa or MasterCard.

1065
01:05:31,157 --> 01:05:31,247
Right.

1066
01:05:31,247 --> 01:05:34,127
We're gonna give it to you
as the Bitcoin customer.

1067
01:05:35,327 --> 01:05:35,507
Yeah.

1068
01:05:35,507 --> 01:05:35,642
What do you think?

1069
01:05:36,587 --> 01:05:36,887
Anja: Yeah.

1070
01:05:36,887 --> 01:05:41,417
And what I love about this, a lot of,
um, for merchants who might be curious

1071
01:05:41,417 --> 01:05:46,427
but not know, a lot of the point sale,
point of sale solutions allow you

1072
01:05:46,427 --> 01:05:48,257
to do the same thing in Australia.

1073
01:05:48,257 --> 01:05:51,317
So you can actually switch
that toggle on and off.

1074
01:05:51,647 --> 01:05:55,487
I understand that a lot of businesses are
running on very small, you know, profit

1075
01:05:55,487 --> 01:06:00,227
margins and whatever money they earn per
week, they basically goes on salaries.

1076
01:06:00,227 --> 01:06:04,067
So, you know, there are ways
for you to kind of switch it on

1077
01:06:04,067 --> 01:06:05,417
and off so that when you wanna.

1078
01:06:05,702 --> 01:06:08,552
Stack Bitcoin and have
like a bit of a reserve.

1079
01:06:08,552 --> 01:06:12,872
You can, but then when you also
need the liquidity and the fiat to

1080
01:06:12,872 --> 01:06:14,852
pay salaries, you can also do that.

1081
01:06:14,852 --> 01:06:20,342
So for any listeners, if you are curious
about, you know, integrating Bitcoin into

1082
01:06:20,342 --> 01:06:25,352
your, um, shop, online shop or physical
shop, let me know because I actually do

1083
01:06:25,352 --> 01:06:29,372
have Bitcoiners all over Australia who
are willing to help, pretty much for

1084
01:06:29,372 --> 01:06:32,252
free, um, in, in helping you get set up.

1085
01:06:32,252 --> 01:06:36,992
So reach out to me on LinkedIn,
reach out to me on X or Instagram

1086
01:06:36,992 --> 01:06:38,132
or wherever you can find me.

1087
01:06:38,132 --> 01:06:41,222
I'm very, um, contactable,
so hope that helps.

1088
01:06:42,062 --> 01:06:42,782
Zane: Awesome stuff.

1089
01:06:43,562 --> 01:06:49,472
Anja: Zane, before we wrap up, uh, do you
have any final words that you wanna share?

1090
01:06:49,532 --> 01:06:53,822
I always say this and it sounds so
morbid, but do you have any final words

1091
01:06:53,822 --> 01:06:55,922
that you wanna share with my listeners?

1092
01:06:55,922 --> 01:07:00,602
Obviously I'll link, um, everything in
the show notes for your community that

1093
01:07:00,602 --> 01:07:04,172
you run and your YouTube channel, but is
there anything else you'd like to share?

1094
01:07:04,352 --> 01:07:07,622
Zane: Well, my understanding an
is that you've called your show

1095
01:07:07,622 --> 01:07:09,692
the Honest Money Show, right?

1096
01:07:09,692 --> 01:07:14,222
So, uh, it probably stands to reason that
there are some of your viewers that are

1097
01:07:14,222 --> 01:07:19,772
wanting to learn about Honest Money, um,
and maybe they're not already in Bitcoin.

1098
01:07:20,342 --> 01:07:26,762
And so if that's the case and you know,
the listeners are serious about, uh,

1099
01:07:26,762 --> 01:07:31,352
embracing honest money, uh, then you've
really gotta embrace Bitcoin because

1100
01:07:31,352 --> 01:07:33,032
that's ultimately what Bitcoin is.

1101
01:07:33,032 --> 01:07:35,162
It's the most honest, transparent.

1102
01:07:36,182 --> 01:07:38,222
Monetary system that we've ever seen.

1103
01:07:38,762 --> 01:07:44,372
Um, and you know, I made a video on my
YouTube channel in the last couple of days

1104
01:07:44,372 --> 01:07:49,862
really highlighting and I guess imploring
people to, if they're still sitting

1105
01:07:49,862 --> 01:07:55,862
on zero Bitcoin to get off zero, you
know, and, and whatever that looks like.

1106
01:07:56,432 --> 01:08:02,492
You know, if you can put in $500, a
thousand dollars, $10,000, a million

1107
01:08:02,492 --> 01:08:03,992
dollars, it doesn't really matter.

1108
01:08:04,052 --> 01:08:08,522
I mean, what matters is that you
actually start the learning journey.

1109
01:08:08,732 --> 01:08:12,452
Um, you know, and I feel
the same way about like ai.

1110
01:08:12,692 --> 01:08:18,152
Um, I think that both of these things
are unstoppable forces and people

1111
01:08:18,152 --> 01:08:22,322
who choose not to embrace them,
uh, are going to get left behind.

1112
01:08:22,322 --> 01:08:26,702
And so really, when it comes
to Bitcoin, you know, we're not

1113
01:08:26,702 --> 01:08:28,112
here to convince you to buy it.

1114
01:08:28,142 --> 01:08:30,362
What we're here to convince
you to do is to learn about it.

1115
01:08:31,412 --> 01:08:35,582
Okay, if you're not already, um, and
if you need help fast tracking your

1116
01:08:35,582 --> 01:08:37,682
learning journey, reach out to me.

1117
01:08:37,682 --> 01:08:40,322
There's, you know, different
resources that I offer and ways

1118
01:08:40,322 --> 01:08:42,002
that you can work with, with me.

1119
01:08:42,062 --> 01:08:46,472
I mean, any just explained, you know, if
you're a merchant, she's very contactable

1120
01:08:46,472 --> 01:08:48,122
if you need help with certain things.

1121
01:08:48,962 --> 01:08:52,232
Um, but really, you know, it's just
all about education and setting aside

1122
01:08:52,232 --> 01:08:56,402
a little time every day, every week,
whatever it might be, to just, uh,

1123
01:08:56,402 --> 01:09:00,302
get yourself to a point where you
understand that this is the future.

1124
01:09:00,722 --> 01:09:02,252
Bitcoin can't be stopped.

1125
01:09:02,942 --> 01:09:07,142
And um, you know, you can either
choose to get on the bitcoin life

1126
01:09:07,142 --> 01:09:09,782
raft or stay on the sinking ship.

1127
01:09:09,782 --> 01:09:11,192
It's really your call.

1128
01:09:11,192 --> 01:09:15,542
But, uh, we are here to help educate
as many people as possible to get

1129
01:09:15,542 --> 01:09:20,912
on the bitcoin life raft and to
participate in this bright orange future.

1130
01:09:22,592 --> 01:09:23,762
Speaker 3: Love it so much.

1131
01:09:23,762 --> 01:09:24,842
Thanks for coming on.

1132
01:09:26,192 --> 01:09:26,852
Zane: Appreciate it.

1133
01:09:26,852 --> 01:09:27,452
And thank you.

1134
01:09:27,524 --> 01:09:30,014
Speaker 6: Still here you
are one of the good ones.

1135
01:09:30,494 --> 01:09:33,134
We'll be back next week
with a brand new episode.

1136
01:09:33,494 --> 01:09:37,214
If you enjoy how we cut through
the noise, consider supporting us

1137
01:09:37,214 --> 01:09:39,464
directly via the Lightning QR code.

1138
01:09:39,974 --> 01:09:42,014
Got a question or a thought to share?

1139
01:09:42,404 --> 01:09:43,754
Comments are wide open.

1140
01:09:44,054 --> 01:09:45,284
We'd love to hear from you.

1141
01:09:45,394 --> 01:09:50,674
For bonus content and updates, follow
us on socials at Honest Money Show.

1142
01:09:51,724 --> 01:09:56,554
Until next week, take care of yourself
and your money and stay decentralized.