Speaker: Welcome to Honest Money.
I'm your host, Anya, and today's episode is brought to you by hard block.
Anja: Hello.
Joining me today is Zane Truscott, a fellow Bitcoin and a podcaster, and I
believe he also lives fairly close to me.
Um, somewhere in, I, is it, is it southeast Queensland or, I'm in
Zane: southeast Queensland.
I'm just up the road from you, Anja, on the southern end of the Gold
Coast in a place called Palm Beach.
Nice.
Yeah.
Anja: Nice.
Yeah, I was, I was in Burleigh Heads yesterday, so yeah.
Beautiful region of Australia.
Um, I started following you on Instagram and then I followed
your wife on Instagram.
Yeah.
Today I really want to hear a little bit more about your story, so do
you wanna give my audience the TLDR?
Zane: Yeah, I'll give you the TLDR, uh, look, basically, I, I, I've been
in Bitcoin since 2018 anda, uh, I'm really passionate about this space.
Uh, I see a lot of problems in the financial system and, uh, and I kind
of came to Bitcoin because the GFC had a big impact, uh, on my, on my
financial life, uh, going back to 2008.
So we can kind of maybe touch on that.
But basically, you know, I see Bitcoin as the future.
Uh, for the past 12 months, I've been building my YouTube channel really
passionate about educating people, particularly Gen Xs, um, to embrace
Bitcoin as a retirement plan B asset.
The reality is, is that, you know, most people don't realize that their,
their superannuation and their 4 0 1 Ks, you know, for our American
audience, uh, they're just simply not.
Uh, keeping up with inflation.
And the reality is, is that, uh, most people don't realize that, uh, that
pot of gold nest egg that they're looking forward to, uh, is simply
not going to be enough, uh, with inflation the way it is these days.
So, um, yeah, very passionate about the space.
Uh, I've got my own private mentorship community of Aussie Bitcoiners who've, uh,
come into this space, uh, and joined me over the past, I'd say nine to 12 months.
Uh, done a lot of one-on-one coaching calls with people who are just getting
started in Bitcoin, um, helping them to, to onboard with confidence.
Uh, and my background basically, I mean, I'm, I'm a father of, uh, three daughters.
Uh, they're all grown up now.
Um, and, uh, I care a lot about the future generation, uh, of this country
because I see a lot of problems with, uh, young people being able to live
the great Australian dream that.
That we've been fortunate enough, uh, to participate in.
And I really feel like we've been the last generation, uh,
who, who was able to do this.
Um, and so, yeah, and I've got a background also in, uh, in
running seminars, workshops.
Um, my wife and I ran a seminar company for about 16 years, traveling all
around Australia and, and basically hosting, uh, professional speakers,
uh, in the health and wellness space.
So that's the TLDR.
Anja: I love it.
And your online community, like, I'm so keen to understand who's joining
this c Is it, are you seeing just like Bitcoin, where in their Bitcoin journey
are the people that typically join?
Zane: For the most part, they're fairly new.
But having said that, there are people who have come in to the community and
you who, uh, have made a few mistakes.
Okay.
They've come in and out of Bitcoin, uh, you know, tried to trade bitcoin.
Tried to outsmart Bitcoin and kind of lived to realize that was a mistake, and
now they're looking to do things right.
And so, you know, we've set up a six module, uh, prerecorded training.
So anybody coming into, uh, the Bitcoin Success Circle community, you know,
they have immediate access to really fast tracking their learning journey.
Because, you know, what I find is, is that the biggest hurdle for most
people when they're coming into Bitcoin is just the, the level of education
that's kind of required for people to get the level of understanding they
need to move forward with confidence.
You know, that's the biggest challenge's.
Lives are so busy.
Um, you know, there's a lot of mixed messaging coming their way.
Uh, you know, and it's just, it's really difficult, um, for people
to kind of get all of the scope of what bitcoin's about into a small
package, if you like, um, so that they can move forward with confidence.
And so, uh, I feel like we've solved that challenge, uh,
because we can really fast track.
I mean, I've put, I would say six years of my learning
journey into a, into a program.
Uh, essentially it's six modules of two hours of training that we recorded live.
Uh, but also, you know, I think one of the most powerful things about Bitcoin,
and you, and you'll probably agree with this, is just the connections.
You know, and being able to be around like-minded people who also understand
the problems, uh, that we're, we're kind of faced with in our financial
lives and how Bitcoin solves this.
And probably the most.
Uh, challenge that I find that people have, um, is they don't
know anyone in their friendship circle or their family circle.
Who, you know, believes in Bitcoin the way that they do.
And so they want to be around other people who have a, a similar mindset
and a similar, uh, outlook and a, who are a, are on a similar path.
So yeah, I would say most people are fairly new.
A lot of people, uh, uh, have decided to roll over their industry
superannuation fund into A-S-M-S-F so that they can buy Bitcoin.
Uh, a lot of people don't realize, uh, Anja, that, um, you know, if you are in
industry superannuation, you can't get exposure to Bitcoin and certainly not
Bitcoin in self custody, which is, you know, what I certainly advocate for.
Um, so there's a lot of people who are making that call because they know
that superannuation is a problem and they're feeling, uh, the restrictions
and constraints around that.
And so they're, they're utilizing Bitcoin as a way to, to plan for their retirement.
So that's kind of it in a nutshell.
Anja: Um, yeah, so I guess in Australia we're in this transitionary
period where the government doesn't particularly have a stance on Bitcoin.
Very few people in government at the state and federal level are curious about it.
Um, I recently saw, um, perception data, um, from a guy in, I think Canada.
Um, I had him on the podcast, uh, talk about like the top 10
countries globally that are talking about Bitcoin and obviously the US
is miles ahead of everyone else.
And then countries like UK, Canada are on there.
Um, I believe El Salvador, Switzerland as well.
And unfortunately, Australia's not in the top 10 list.
And to further that the, um, I believe also, I don't know if this is still
the case, but I have heard fair fairly recently from a, a financial advisor
that they're actually not allowed to recommend Bitcoin because it's
not in the approved product list.
What they can do is if their customer comes to them saying, Hey, I want
to invest in Bitcoin, then they can allocate a, a, an amount that
they're guided by their customer.
So it's kind of like, it's hard for individuals because we don't have,
um, people in authority recommending it as, as a product in Australia.
Nevermind that, you know, the BlackRock, BlackRock is recommending
Bitcoin, the Bank of America is recommending Bitcoin, but in
Australia, we're so behind the curve.
So it's really up to individuals to do their own work and it's
people like you and me starting that conversation and trying to get
people to think about it responsibly.
Do work, do the work in terms of like understanding it, so avoiding scams,
knowing how to navigate, you know, the banking system in Australia, knowing that
they have options such as rolling their super industry super fund into an SMSF
so that it can invest Bitcoin directly.
And people just don't know that they have this, um, these options.
So when they come across it, um, they're very intrigued.
And have you noticed a change in, I guess like recently in terms of adoption
in Australia, do you feel like the conversation is starting to shift at all?
Zane: Look, on a broad scale, I'd say no.
Uh, but only because, uh, you know, people are very much like I said
earlier, and yeah, they're very, yeah.
People's lives are strapped right now.
You know, we, we've got a cost of living crisis.
We've got, you know, a growing wealth gap.
People are working harder for less.
You know, we've got a shift in terms of, uh, you know, a generational shift in, in,
in terms of, uh, you know, young people really starting to question, you know,
what their future's going to look like.
You know, back in our day when, when we were kind of coming
through the education system and.
Uh, you know, planning our lives, we felt like we had time on our side.
You know, we felt like we could save to buy a home and plan, you know, to,
to, to lay our roots down and build for the future and, uh, create a business.
And, and it was, um, you know, if you put in the hard work and, and, and you took a
calculated risk and served a market need, you know, everything was kind of in your
favor to, to, to be able to do all that.
But, you know, what we're seeing now is, is a, is a shift.
And, you know, there's probably reasons for that.
Um, but the reality is, is that it's, it's just life's getting
harder for a larger portion of the population than ever before.
And yet they don't realize that there is actually a, a solution.
Now, it might not be an immediate solution, it's gonna change their
life overnight, but certainly a, a, a solution that restores hope.
Right.
And that's ultimately what Bitcoin is.
It's, it's, it's an opt out.
But in order to take that step, you've gotta understand a little about the
fundamentals of it, why it was created, you know, why it came out on the
back of the global financial crisis, which was a very chaotic period.
I mean, that didn't happen by accident, you know, and, and it's taken us the best
part of, you know, 16, 17 years to, to, to really start to see more of a mainstream.
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Zane: So yeah, so what I'm seeing is that there are more people, certainly
in the space that I'm operating in, and I'm sure you are seeing the same.
And we operate, or I, sorry, we operate in a little bit of an eco chamber, right?
There's always new people kind of coming across us and our content
and our education and our podcasts.
Um, so I'm noticing that, but I wouldn't say there's any kind of signal in the
mainstream media or in the general public that would indicate that, you
know, uh, that Bitcoin's going to gain, you know, mainstream awareness in
Australia in the next couple of years.
I, I, I think Australia's going to very much be a laggard in all of this.
I, I think Australia's gonna do all that.
It can.
To protect the legacy banking system.
I mean, our four big banks are among the most profitable on earth,
even though we only have a country of what, 25, 20 6 million people.
And so, you know, um, they're gonna do all that they can to try
to protect their patch of grass for as long as they possibly can.
And what we know about Bitcoin is that it's a threat to that system.
So, you know, I, I don't expect that your financial planner or your accountant,
you know, or the, or the treasurer or the Today Show or anybody who's a
part of that system is going to make any kind of public announcement that
right now is the time for you guys to all be learning about Bitcoin.
You know, it's just not gonna happen.
Right.
And like you said earlier, so it's, it's up to us as individuals to self-educate.
I mean, we have to be the ones that are, are the, uh, you know, the
creators of our own destiny here.
We have to be willing to self-educate.
And it's so simple to do.
I mean, all the content that you need is available.
It's at your fingertips now, either on YouTube or audio books or, you know,
Amazon, uh, books, whatever it might be.
Um, but people have to make that, uh, make that proactive, proactive
choice to, to, to go on that journey.
And I, and I just don't think that there is a wholesale consortium of the public
that, um, you know, is willing to take that step, uh, or is able, you know,
because like I said, most people are, uh, just flat out trying to make ends meet
and the last thing on earth they have.
Any time and space for us to go and learn about a completely new monetary
system that could change their life.
You know what I mean?
So that, that's kind of how I see the, the general landscape of things.
I, I think this is going to change, but I don't think Australia is
gonna lead the way in this change.
I think, you know, it's gonna be, um, you know, the same as all
the transformational technologies that we've seen in our lifetime.
You know, be it cable tv or the iPhone or Uber or Netflix,
you know, any of those things.
Australia just by default ends up embracing them, uh, when it can't
sort of hang on to the, the old way of doing things any longer.
So that's what I think's gonna happen, and for that reason,
Australia's probably some way off.
Um.
The level of adoption that we're going to see in other countries.
Anja: Yeah, like I think the awareness of Bitcoin is really high in Australia,
but uh, the understanding of what it actually is is extremely low
and obvious for obvious reasons.
Um, yeah.
But I'm keen to know a little bit more about like, your motivation.
What is driving you to wanna speak about it and educate others on it?
Zane: Yeah, it's an interesting question.
Look, I think for me, when I first, uh, you know, got serious about
Bitcoin, uh, I'd come through a period where, like my wife and I,
we bought a waterfront property on the Gold Coast in September, 2007.
Okay.
Now, that was the height, absolute peak of the property market.
And I had friends who were in real estate and who were property investors,
and they said, said to me and my wife, they said, you know, you will never
lose money on water in Queensland.
Right?
And they, and you know, so we, there we were.
It was our, it wasn't our first home, I think it was our third home.
But, um, you know, it was, it was like this is the dream, you know,
and it's happening quite early for us, and our kids are still little and
we've got this beautiful old home, but it was a beautiful big block of
land on a point position, uh, on the northern Gold Coast wide water canal.
And we had this dream of, you know, being there for the next, you know,
15, 20 years and, and raising our kids there and, and everything.
And then, you know, lo and behold, uh, less than a year later, the GFC hit and
we ended up having to, uh, make some decisions because we had our EV events
company running out of different premises.
And, uh, we could see that the market was shifting.
And uh, you know, we had reasonable equity in the home, but we certainly
weren't in a position like if we had to sell it, you know, it was,
we were going to lose significant.
Uh, amount of capital that we put into it because the market
had shifted so fast, you know, in such a, a short space of time.
So we ended up moving our business there and, and making
the best of a bad situation.
But fast forward, uh, about seven or eight years after that, we still
had the property, but in the end, uh, we ended up, uh, selling that,
that, uh, piece of real estate.
And, uh, I think we lost about five, $600,000.
Okay, because we put some money into remodeling downstairs so
we could run our business from there and, and things like that.
But it really just highlighted to me how, you know, there's no
guarantees in life and, and, um, these financial, uh, crashes, uh,
and, and the way that they manipulate.
Boom and bust cycles.
Uh, and the way that, you know, the big players always seem to get bailed
out and, you know, the little guy seems to get left kind of holding the bag,
uh, and having to pick up the pieces.
Uh, even though it didn't destroy us, it just woke up, uh, or, or I guess,
lit a fire in me that I wanted to really understand a little more about, you know,
how this financial system works and why is it that, you know, there is so much
manipulation in the market and those that.
You know, go and profit from issuing all this, these toxic loans, which
was the case back then where it was called the subprime, uh, mortgage,
uh, uh, crisis back in America.
And basically anybody could get a loan, right?
If you, if you had a first and a last name, um, and you had some form of
deposit, you could basically get a loan.
And it was the case here in Australia as well.
Uh, but there were a lot of people who, you know, um, who didn't have
the substance behind them to be able to substantiate or to support the
mortgages that were they were taking on.
And then when the shit hit the fan, you know, a lot of people
got into a lot of trouble.
Anyway, long story short, you know, for me it lit a fire in me to wanna
learn more about the history of money, the financial system, how it
all kind of ties together, uh, said to me in 2013, you know, this Bitcoin
thing, you should have a look at it.
You know, and I'm like, what are you talking about?
You know?
And I kind of dismissed it.
But then it came across my desk about four years later in 2017.
Um, and this time I thought, hang on, there might be something in there.
So I've, I've kind of heard more than once.
I've probably heard two or three times people going on about this Bitcoin thing,
but I'd never paid any attention to it.
It was just like, what, what are you talking about?
This new form of money.
I kind of just thought it was like some kind of a scam or, you know, I,
I just had no, I didn't really know what to think, but it just sounded
like somebody was trying to sell me a network marketing scheme or
something, something crazy like that.
But when I, uh, one of the first things I did an was I actually, uh, I, well I read
the Bitcoin Standard by Safe Adina Moose.
Okay.
So I'd got that, uh, I got that book off Amazon and I started reading that.
But I also subscribed to a, uh, a publication out of Melbourne.
And a gentleman by the name of Sam Kering, uh, who I believe ended up going to the
UK after a few years later, but he was one of the first guys that was really writing
about, you know, this new revolutionary monetary system called Bitcoin.
And he was just, you know, I subscribed to his newsletter and he was articulating
what this thing was all about.
You know, I just went on a, a bit of a learning journey for, you know, I'd
say, I'd say six to to nine months, uh, of just digesting information.
And then I finally pulled the trigger in, in January 20th, 2018.
But what's crazy is that, um, you know, I sat through a,
a, an 84% drawdown that year.
I mean, if you can go back and look at the historical, uh, price chart
for Bitcoin, people who are fairly new into Bitcoin over the past 12
months, who have experienced maybe a 50 to 54%, I think at its peak.
They don't realize that this has been by no means the biggest, uh,
drawdown in Bitcoin's history.
I think 2018, uh, or maybe 2013 was the biggest, but
certainly it was, uh, 80, 84%.
But, you know, I didn't, I didn't flinch because, because I'd done that
base level of work on Bitcoin, and I understood fundamentally that it
was an emerging monetary system that was going to take time to catch on.
And, you know, and back then we just, we didn't have the
clarity that we've got now.
Okay.
We didn't have all the regulatory clarity that's coming out of
America, and nobody really knew what was going to happen back then.
But even fundamentally, I still understood that this was something
that was worth, you know, investing in paying attention to.
Um, you know, and, and of course as time's gone on, that's, that's
proven, uh, to be the case, but.
Um, you know, so, so in a nutshell, I think for me it was just that realization
that legacy assets that, um, historically have performed exceptionally well and
people trust, um, you know, we, in these boom and bust cycles, you never
really know what's going to happen.
And the more you dig into it, you realize that it's all really a facade.
It's, it's the whole financial system.
We live in a debt-based financial system that is highly manipulated.
And what if we could have a form of money where there were no, uh, politicians or
central bankers or people behind closed doors that could, could call the shots?
And for me, that was the most attractive thing about Bitcoin.
And, you know, to this, to this day, this is, this is the probably the
main thing that I say to people.
You know, the thing that makes Bitcoin so powerful is its decentralization.
You know, and, and people are so used to outsourcing their financial
lives to a bank or to a financial planner or to a, you know, a broker
or a middleman, you know, it's just what we've been raised with.
And so try to try and get their head around a concept where what we have
over here is a, is a different monetary system that, that has rules, but no
rulers, you know, nobody, no, it's, it's got rules that are verified every
10 minutes, which is essentially like an audit that is done in the entire
monetary system every 10 minutes, but nobody can change those rules.
And, and for me, that that was the most powerful thing.
And, and that's kind of.
Why I've sort of stayed the course, uh, over all these years.
Anja: Yeah.
I really, really resonate with that.
And for me, it does come down to which system do I fundamentally trust more?
Do I trust a system that is a debt-based Ponzi scheme, um, that has people
pulling strings and centrally planning things that they cannot possibly plan
because the economy's so large and individual human action is so different
that no one can actually predict how people will react to something.
So they use these very like aggregate statistics to plan the entire economy.
And they think they're doing good, but they con continuously, uh, failing
to see secondary, tertiary, and unseen consequences of their action.
So that's option one.
Um, or do I trust essentially the free decentralized market?
So yes, there's human psychology that comes into that.
Yes, there's price volatility, but it's fundamentally like a, a
complete, a completely free market.
And I, I trust maths and I trust the free market more, so, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Um, for me, having rules that are completely, uh, predictable and consistent
and can't easily be changed by political whim, you know, you have to, if you wanna
propose a change through the protocol that's, you know, you have to put
in a Bitcoin improvement proposal that's debated for years before
it's even, you know, implemented, if it ever gets implemented.
So change
Zane: takes time, and Anna requires consensus.
It requires consensus from those who are enforcing the Bitcoin rules
via, you know, the node runners to actually to agree with that proposal.
And, and, you know, and, and this is why Bitcoin has never been, uh, you know,
every attack on Bitcoin has been thwarted.
You know, we've had these, um, hard forks and, and, and you know,
the block size wars and things like that back in 20 17, 20 18.
And, you know, there's been a lot of people who have kind of
predicted and forecast and maybe even cheered on Bitcoin's demise.
But you know, it's never been hacked.
It's the most powerful.
Computational, uh, network ever created.
I mean, you could add Facebook, Amazon, Google, and all the
computational power that goes into those technologies combined.
And Bitcoin is still more powerful.
And, and this is the reason why, you know, when you start, you know,
I guess, um, deploying capital or saving in Bitcoin, once you have
these fundamental understandings, you can do it with confidence, right?
Because you, you, you, you know, well, historic history tells us that TikTok
next block, you know, Bitcoin just, it just trudges along and just your,
your savings are just always there.
Nothing can happen to them unless you give up your keys.
Right?
And that's what makes it just so dependable and, and, and, and so
powerful as a savings technology.
And, you know, if you believe that we're heading into a world of
increasing uncertainty and chaos.
And inflation and growing centralization around our financial lives.
And if you care about your financial autonomy and freedom and sovereignty,
I mean, if those are value systems that you hold dear, then you have to
be paying attention to Bitcoin because it, it solves that problem right?
Now, you're not gonna get rich overnight, but this is why, you know, people who
come to Bitcoin only for number go up.
Invariably they don't stay right, and then they blame Bitcoin and they
blame the market or Bitcoin, you know, this bitcoin thing because
they haven't done the work on it.
To realize that number go up, that is just a byproduct of scarcity.
Okay?
But it takes time.
It's, it's, it's volatile because the legacy system doesn't
know how to value Bitcoin.
And so when we're pricing it in dollars all of the time, we're
doing Bitcoin a disservice.
And ourselves, because we're constantly in this mindset of, am I up or am I down?
Which is, which is taking us away from the work that we really should
be doing, which is understanding Bitcoin at a deeper level, not where
this is, but where this is going.
Um, and so, yeah, it's, uh, this, this is the greatest challenge and,
you know, people coming into Bitcoin, them being able to lower their
time preference, zoom out, right?
Look a little in the history as to why Bitcoin was created,
what problems it solves, right?
And then with that understanding, deciding whether or not Bitcoin is going
to be a part of their personal financial future in whatever capacity that, you
know, to, which is usually relevant to the amount of conviction they've got.
Um, and that, and then it's just a, a, a case of staying the course.
You know, and, and just keeping the learning journey going.
So the greatest challenge we have is helping people to understand
that Bitcoin is not a trade, it's not a speculative asset.
Bitcoin is a revolution.
Okay.
But in order to get to that point, you, you, you need to self-educate.
It's, it's really that simple.
Yeah.
Anja: Yeah.
And full disclosure, like when I first got into Bitcoin, um, the
first allocation that I made to it was purely for number go up.
I definitely treated it like an investment class, not like a new form of money.
So naturally as I read more, my complete perception and
philosophy around it changed.
But like, do you think, I mean, when people ask me what they should do, I
don't like obviously giving out financial advice, but I do like to give some sort of
high level guidelines and what to expect.
So I always mention it's really volatile, um, to be, you
know, to everyone's different.
Everyone can stomach volatility differently.
Um, so, uh, one expectation I like to set, it's like no matter what
you decide to do and how much you decide to allocate into Bitcoin,
commit to it for at least four years.
So, um, that's just kind of one thing.
And then I'm like, continue learning because education leads to inevitable
allocation, you know, and I love that.
So if they continue, yeah, if they continue learning, obviously
their perspective might shift.
A lot of people, like everyone I've spoken to in this podcast had a similar journey.
They were in it for the money and then they were like, okay,
I'm here for the revolution.
They, they're seeing the bigger picture of it and they, when they
compare fiat with Bitcoin, it's kind of
it becomes really hard to go back.
It it be like I can't justify to myself selling some of from a Bitcoin and
putting it in s and p 500 anymore.
Like I just can't, I know some people still do, and that's fine
to each their own, but to me, yeah.
I, I I can't stomach it.
Zane: Yeah.
And
Anja: are you, yeah.
Zane: Sorry, go ahead.
Anja: No, I was gonna ask you a different question, but if you have a
follow up to that, I'd love to hear it.
Zane: Yeah, I agree with you.
I think once you understand Bitcoin, there's no way you're going back,
like once you convert fi currency into the hardest form of money
that humanity has ever seen, right?
And you understand the value of the money that you hold now in Bitcoin or in SATs in
Satoshi, and you have it locked away in.
In your own self custody or cold storage set up, you, you're just not
going back for a number of reasons.
The first reason is you're not going back because even if your Bitcoin
doubles, triples, quadruples, or 10 Xs, okay, the only reason to sell it is if
you've been in Bitcoin for, you know, five, 10 years or so, and you have the
opportunity right now in this moment to significantly change your life.
Okay?
Now it might be to pay off a big fat mortgage, or it might be to
buy a dream house or apartment, you know, by the beach or something like
that, or something you've always wanted to do in your life, right?
That you know right now, in this moment, if I do this, I can fulfill that dream.
Okay?
But you've gotta keep in mind a couple of things.
The first thing is, in this country, if you do it, you've now got a tax bill.
Okay.
Because 50% of the gain, if you've held it for more than a year,
is subject to capital gains tax.
So that's the first issue.
And the second issue is that you've gotta be really sure that you're
comfortable getting rid of that Bitcoin because the chances of you
getting that back certainly anywhere near the price that you originally
bought it is, is not good, right?
So you have to be really sure that this decision you are going
to make is going to be a, a life changing decision in some capacity.
Because if all you do is sell it back because you've doubled, triple quadrupled
your money, I'm here to tell you, you will, you will live to regret that.
You know, and, and this is, this is, again, this is, this is, this
just comes down to education.
Okay.
This comes down to understanding the value of the Bitcoin you hold.
Most people do not understand what scarcity means.
Bitcoin is absolute scarcity.
I mean, even gold, which has been money for some 5,000 years, it has a 2%
historical historical inflation rate.
Bitcoin has zero.
Okay?
All we have is the issuance of Bitcoin to get to that 21
million hard cap, but that's it.
And we already mine
Anja: 20 million.
Zane: Exactly.
So we're what, what, 95% of the way.
They're already Okay.
And you, you used the word earlier and you're predictable.
You like having something that's predictable when it comes
to planning for the future.
Well, there was a time where our money was predictable.
You know, when we were kids, maybe not, not you, but certainly I remember
back in the late seventies or uh, very early eighties, you know, we used to
have these little, uh, uh, passport, uh, with the Commonwealth Bank.
They used to come around to the school and they'd teach you about saving, right?
And you'd go and put in, you know, a dollar a week or whatever your pocket
money into your savings account.
And it was conditioning us to understand the concept of building for the
future, saving for the things you want.
You know, it wasn't about instant gratification.
There was certainly no buy now, pay later, right?
There was no, let's whack it on a credit card, have the thing now to
satisfy our immediate desire, and then worry about how we're going to
pay for it at 20% interest tomorrow and the next day and the next year.
I mean, that is a function of how broken society and money has become.
You know, over the past 20, 30 years.
So, you know, what Bitcoin enables us to do is to return to calm, to restore our
belief in the future, to restore hope.
And this is why I've, uh, helped my kids to really understand, you know,
I've got, like I said earlier, three, three daughters in their twenties.
You know, one of them is already in the housing market.
My daughter, who recently had our first, uh, grandchild, um, she's
been housing Oh, congratulations.
For a few years.
Thank you.
Anja: Yeah.
Zane: But the other two, the only hope that they have, okay.
Even though they're employed and they've got good jobs and they're happy in
their, in their, you know, careers and things like that, is either help
from the bank of mom and dad, right?
Or, or in my view, to saving Bitcoin.
Anja: Are they Bitcoin as your daughter's?
Zane: They, they are not hardcore bitcoiners, but they're saving in Bitcoin.
Anja: Yeah.
Bi bitcoin
Zane: are by proxy.
Bitcoin are by proxy because dad said so.
Right.
Because dad keeps saying In 15 to 20 years, you'll thank me.
Anja: Yeah, absolutely.
Zane: Well, if they
Anja: wanna
Zane: hear about Bitcoin from
Anja: a lady, I'm here.
Zane: Well they, they wanna hear from anyone else
Anja: by you.
Zane: We, we need, we need more ladies in this space.
A hundred percent agree with you.
Anja: Look, I think there's more coming into this space because Yeah, like I
remember my first kind of Bitcoin event.
I gravitated towards women because it was just, you know,
more, I was more comfortable to ask them like dumb questions.
And as more women come in, that attracts more women naturally.
So now when I go to events, it's really beautiful to see that.
You know, the men that used to go to these meetups for years are now bringing
their wives because they'll have someone to talk to, they'll bring in their kids.
Like, it's, it's now turning real like, into really beautiful
family friendly community.
And that's what I'm really, really mostly proud of.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
So definitely bring your kids, bring your wife.
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Zane: Yeah.
Absolutely.
Now the more, the more that you can, you know, help to educate those close to
you, uh, about what this is, the better.
It's not always easy, right.
Um, you know, a lot of, in a lot of situations, uh, you know, you've got two,
two people, partners, spouses, whatever you wanna call it, and one's gung ho
and it's like, I really see this and I believe in this and I wanna do this.
And the other one's like, oh, I'm not really sure.
You know, and they kind of.
Either along for the ride, but one person's driving it or
they're like, no, dead against it.
We're not doing it.
Or you go for your life.
I don't believe in it, but go for it.
You know?
So it's, it's kind of a mixed bag.
Um, but I do find, like we've got, uh, quite a few couples actually
who are in, in my community, in my Bitcoin Success Circle community,
uh, who are on the same page.
And that that is, that is beautiful to see when, when, uh, when couples are
able to, um, see the same things, right?
I mean, they live the same lives in a lot of ways, so they, they can kind
of sense the same challenges, I guess.
Um, but I think, you know, uh, to have a situation where they both see
Bitcoin as a solution, um, it's not that common, you know, it's not that common.
But I think it'll improve, you know.
As people realize that Bitcoin is, is definitely a solution.
Anja: Yeah, absolutely.
And I really, really hope to see that change happen in Australia.
It, it feels like we're, you're right, like it feels like we're so early and
like we discussed just before we actually started recording, it feels that most of
the people joining the space are Gen Xs.
Um, and I've noticed that as well through the meetups that I, um,
organize here in Northern Rivers.
And I assume that also has to do with.
Being the ones that have money.
I, I feel younger people in particular, like millennials and Gen Zs have a
much higher time preference because they were born into a, a digital world.
They were, you know, born in on, on the TV screens and the iPads and
the iPhones, and they're constantly like, you know, disengaged.
So I, yeah, I, I'd love to know like how we can help younger generations as well.
Um, I don't have the answers.
Zane: Yeah.
Look, it's, it, it's not easy because like you said, just the, the environment
that they've, that they've grown up in.
But I think there's this inner sense and you that, you know, young people
now, um, they are sort of looking around themselves, you know, their,
their situation and they're going, okay, we've got a problem here because.
You know, I'm, I'm trying to get out of home and I have to share a
house with two or three other people because rents are out of control.
I only earn this much money per week, right?
And so if I'm giving half of it away to my rent, right, then I need to share with
other, I mean, some people, if they're on their own, they'd probably be giving
away a hundred percent in rent, right?
And this is why, you know, wages just haven't kept up with real inflation.
And so people are now having to compromise their life, uh, in
order to just survive, right?
And so in that environment, they're not saying to themself,
how do I start a family?
How to buy?
You know, where can I buy a home?
And, you know, let's plan for the next five years.
Let's save.
You know, our, our, our bums off so that we can get into the housing market.
Um, you know, a lot, a lot of young people I come across just via
association through my, my own kids.
Uh, I think that they've just kind of, they're just handing
it over to the universe and they're saying, you know what?
Let's just enjoy our life, right?
Forget trying to plan too far ahead for the future.
Um, let's just enjoy our life because it's really difficult and it is a
real headache to try and think about it all the time and how we're gonna
get, get through this situation.
Um, and so they're just living for today.
And, and I mean, I heard some statistics recently.
Uh, I think that the average age now of young women who are
having children in this country is now out to 32 years of age.
Anja: Yeah.
Zane: And they're only having one.
Right.
But that's okay because we'll import everybody from all over
the rest of the world to fill the gaps, to build the population.
But if you fast forward that scenario,
Anja: andp up.
Zane: Yeah.
But if you fast forward that a, a generation or two, this country's
gonna become unrecognizable.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Zane: It's gonna completely destroy our culture.
Right.
'cause if you, if, if, if Aussies aren't reproducing and having
kids because they can't Right.
Or life's just too challenging.
I mean, if you are a young person in your, you know, early to mid twenties
and you are flat out just supporting yourself, the last thing on earth
you're thinking about is settling down, having kids buying, you know, it's just,
it's just too much to even comprehend.
Um, so, you know, how does Bitcoin tie into this?
Well, what Bitcoin is essentially is, is it enables.
You to preserve your purchasing power over a long period of time.
So it restores hope in terms of your ability to plan for the future.
Because all of a sudden now, even though you are earning Aussie dollars or you are
earning US dollars, what you're doing is you are now saving a portion of that, that
income as much as you possibly can into an incorruptible, deflationary form of money.
So a, a money that can't be printed, a money that can't steal from you,
steal from you through inflation, you know, and, and so that, that's
what enables you now to plan for the next, you know, 10, 15, 20 years.
So that, you know, even if you, let's say you were able to acquire 10% of a
Bitcoin, I mean, right now, what's that?
It's about nine and a half thousand to 10,000 Australian dollars at
today's, at today's exchange rate.
That might not sound like a life-changing amount of an investment to hold, but
when you consider Bitcoin's scarcity proposition, right, only 21 million, a
hundred million Satoshis per Bitcoin.
So the entire monetary system is worth 2.1 quadrillion Satoshis, and
this is another thing that a lot of people don't understand you, you
don't have to buy one whole Bitcoin.
You can buy fractions of a Bitcoin, but I've said to my kids,
0.1, that's 10% of a Bitcoin.
It's a target.
It's just an arbitrary figure.
But it's a nice round number for you to aim for.
That's 10 million Satoshis.
And one day a Satoshi will be worth $1.
Anja: Yeah,
Zane: okay.
Now I might not be alive to see it, but I'm quite confident that you will be.
You know, and, and so when they start to understand this, you understand
the power of compounding scarcity.
Global demand.
I mean, we we're still at five, 6% global adoption, which basically
means that 95% of the world still has no exposure yet to Bitcoin.
So when you start to look at the, the historical adoption rates of
technologies like the iPhone and the internet, you know, and Uber, and
you know, all of these other, these technologies that have been in our
lifetime, they don't happen overnight.
They take time gradually, but then all of a sudden it's like somebody
turns on the light switch and then the whole world just embraces it.
And, and this is exactly what's gonna happen with Bitcoin, which is
gonna drive its value proposition.
Why?
Because they can't create any more of it.
You know, when you're saving Bitcoin, it's like granite.
It's just, it just sits there.
And, and, and over time it just accumulates value because of, its, because
of, its, its inherent scarcity, you know?
And, and when you understand supply and demand, limited supply, scarce,
desirable asset, unlimited demand coming for that limited supply
item, economics 1 0 1, what's gonna happen to the, to the value of it?
It's just gonna go like that, but it'll take time.
Anja: Yeah, absolutely.
And, and yeah, like when you think about historical adoption of like
credit and debit cards, that took about 60 years to implement globally.
So we're like, what, 17 years into the Bitcoin experiment?
And, and yeah, like sometimes it feels like things are moving
really slow, but in reality the adoption is moving really fast.
We already have a 2 trillion, or it's less than 2 trillion now, but um.
An asset class that's grown faster than anything ever has.
Like no other form of money has grown as fast as Bitcoin has.
Gold took, you know, 5,000 years to be what it is today,
and Bitcoin is taking way less.
Um, so yeah, I just, I obviously am a huge fan
of Bitcoin and
Zane: yeah, but, but the other point there too, Anja, about adoption, you
know, I'm not sure whether the listeners are aware of this, but just in the
last couple of days, uh, square, which is the merchant payment application
owned by Jack Dorsey, who was the founder of Twitter, and he sold it
to Elon Musk a couple of years ago.
But he's a tech guy, right?
He sees the future.
He's a, he's a billionaire entrepreneur.
He's a very, very clever guy.
So he's company Square.
Just in the last few days has auto enabled Bitcoin payments on their platform.
So this is the kind of stuff, this is the inflection point
where we're at, right, right now.
Now this isn't happening in Australia yet, but it doesn't need to.
Bitcoin is a global asset.
If you have allocation to Bitcoin, you are operating in
a global monetary system, okay?
You don't need to be in America to benefit from the adoption in America.
Okay?
And so the point about this is that once you start going down to your local
coffee shop, or your hairdresser, or your mechanic or your baker, and they
use Square to accept their credit card or debit card payments, now all of a sudden.
You are going to see a little placard on their desk saying,
now accepting Bitcoin, right?
Some will do that.
Not everyone will, but that will generate awareness.
And also on the platform, guess what?
You've got the option now to pay in Bitcoin.
So just think about like, this is how adoption grows.
Okay?
When awareness grows and then people think to themselves, well, hold on.
This Bitcoin thing, I thought it was just like a, a place to put your money
and it kind of 10 Xd, like it was like a, you know, digital gold or no, no.
Bitcoin is actually peer-to-peer electronic cash.
And if you've read the Bitcoin white paper, Satoshi Nakamoto, the anonymous
figure who created Bitcoin, who released the Bitcoin White paper nine page
document, which you can Google and download for yourself in October, 2009.
2008, sorry, one month after the commencement of the GFC,
the global financial crisis.
The front line, the, the heading on that document says
peer-to-peer electronic cash.
And so people are gonna realize, well, the next phase in Bitcoin
adoption is not people, um, you know, hoarding Bitcoin to get rich.
It's, they're going to wanna store their savings in Bitcoin and spend and replace.
They want to, they're going to wanna utilize Bitcoin as a medium of exchange.
And this is what happens with all monetary instruments.
You know, they start as like a hobby, you know, a bit of a joke.
People are kind of not really paying attention.
There's just a, a few people sort of, you know, over on the sidelines
just playing around with it.
Then all of a sudden it becomes like, well, hang on.
This is, this is something, but you know, these, these people are silly,
so we're gonna start laughing at them.
Hang on.
Now this is gained a bit more adoption, but uh, this is actually
looking like it could be a threat.
Now we're gonna attack them, right?
And now it's like, uh, this thing actually is gaining a bit
more momentum than we thought.
Uh, and it can't be stopped.
Um, well, we actually want a piece of this, right?
And this is exactly what's happened with Wall Street and the SEC and all that
because they know they can't stop Bitcoin.
So what do they do?
They want to participate in it.
They wanna make fees from it, they wanna hoard it and make it available
to their financial planning clients.
Or you can buy our treasury company and get exposure to Bitcoin, but
you're not owning real Bitcoin.
If you do that, you're not participating in the revolution.
All you're doing is getting exposure to number go up.
But if anything happens to the, to those companies, you lose, it
impacts your, your, your, your money.
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Anja: Yeah, I absolutely love that.
And to me, that's one of the main things that made Bitcoin
click in into my mind for me.
So I definitely, even if I had understood Bitcoin a lot better, say back in
2013 and 14, I'm the sort of adopter, I'm early, but not the earliest.
I like, I'm not a pioneer.
So all the, you know, cipher punks, libertarians, Austrian economists
that, that were part of those early discussion forums, treated Bitcoin as
a collectible and I guess the protocol and the network had to grow resilient
enough and be tested through the China ban, through the block size war.
You know, major 80 and 90% go down corrections.
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's why I came in at a hundred thousand Australian dollars because by
the time I came in there was institutional validation, there was regulatory
clarity, there was people in, you know, that I respected the intellectuals
that were like saying, Hey, this is a thing, like you should pay attention.
So I'm still like an early adopter in the big scheme of things.
Um, but yeah, like it's now definitely not store of value in the west.
You know, global South uses it as a medium of exchange.
Different countries have.
It's not like it's, it's linear adoption everywhere, globally.
It's happening at different rates.
And that's what I love about it.
It's just like seeing the bigger picture behind Bitcoin adoption, not just, you
know, what you think about, about in your own little corner of the world.
Um, but I'm really curious to know that person that mentioned it to you back in
2013, are you still in contact with them?
Are they still a Bitcoin?
No,
Zane: no.
They, he was, uh, his name's Dave and he was a, um, he was a part of our crew
back in the day when we used to, we used to run our workshops and, uh, he
was, he was a lovely fellow, but, uh, yeah, I lost contact with him maybe
during COVID or something like that.
I mean, we, we stopped running our events company.
Uh, COVID kind of put a stop to it, but because we'd been doing it for so long.
We were at a point where we were trying to, looking for an excuse
to exit the industry anyway.
And uh, that was kind of it.
So it was, but yeah, lost, lost touch with a number of people.
Um, but yeah, uh, be, I would be actually curious to, if I can look him up somehow
and find out whether he's, he's still got his Bitcoin from 2013 because,
because if he has, uh, I'm sure he is.
Uh, he's on a yacht somewhere in the south of France or something.
Anja: Well, Dave, if you're listening, I hope you've held on.
Zane: Exactly, exactly.
Anja: Yeah, no, I, I'm completely like, I know a few people who got in very
early and of all the testing times, they all kind of concur that the block
size wars was probably the toughest time because, uh, people who were
in Bitcoin very early on, they knew how to ignore, not ignore, but like
there's so much fud, right?
Fear, uncertainty, doubt around Bitcoin in the early days, and, and it's still
still lagging on, um, around the en energy use, that it's a Ponzi schemes,
that it's tulips, that it was created by, by this government's gonna ban,
the governments are gonna ban it.
All these things.
And, and anyone who's done the work to understand it knows.
Like to that, that's just noise, right?
But where people weren't sure, um, was the block size wars, because that
was like an internal civil war that happened between Bitcoiners and Yeah.
So I, I actually do know some people who have sold, um, when it was critical
not to, and live, to regret it.
And even went through, like, one of my good friends, um, went
through a phase where he just like absolutely hated Bitcoin and was
actively discouraging people in his life, um, from, from purchasing it.
And he, and then he eventually, he found his way back to Bitcoin.
Um, but that must be really tough psychologically, you know,
giving up on it, then realizing, oh damn it, I was wrong.
You know, it, it, it takes a big person to realize, like get over
their ego and, and, you know, admit that they were wrong about it.
Um.
Yeah.
Zane: Yeah.
No, I agree.
And look, I, I haven't, I haven't read the book, uh, about the block size wars,
but it is on my list because I believe it's a really, really interesting book.
And, you know, just for the viewers, I, I guess, uh, and the listeners
and you know, who, who have no idea what we're talking about.
When, when Satoshi created Bitcoin, he sacrificed speed for
decentralization and security.
Okay.
And that has been the thing that has, uh, stood the test of time for Bitcoin.
And that's the reason why Bitcoin is still here, because decentralization
and security is, is what makes Bitcoin so powerful as a monetary network.
It's the reason why it's never been hacked.
It's the reason why these, you know, these challenges to Bitcoin's protocol
have always been thwarted, right?
And it's the reason why.
These breakaways that have attempted to be the new Bitcoin,
they've all failed, right?
Because you need a D, you need something that is, is like granite right now.
Now the thing about speed is Bitcoin doesn't need speed.
Now what we're talking about with speed is transactional.
Like if Anja, you know, sends me her Bitcoin wallet address, you know, and
she wants me to send her, you know, let's say, I don't know, $5,000 in
Bitcoin, typically I would use an an on chain base layer Bitcoin transaction
for a transaction of that size.
And she may not see the Bitcoin in her wallet for at least, you know, 10
to 12 minutes, something like that.
Because a Bitcoin transaction on the base layer is settled.
Uh, every 10 minutes or blocks are settled every 10 minutes.
And if that transaction gets picked up by a miner.
In the next block.
She may have it sooner, but typically speaking somewhere around 10 to, you
know, 10 to 12 minutes, depending on the size, it might be even longer
if it's a really small transaction.
So what this essentially means is, is that to utilize Bitcoin for buying a
cup of coffee, it doesn't work right.
But, but when we, when we talk about utilizing Bitcoin for payments for
micropayments, like buying a five or $7 cup of coffee, what we're talking about is
the layer two solution that sits on top of the Bitcoin main chain called lightning.
And so there are these, all of these layer two solutions and layer
threes that are coming online now that enable Bitcoin payments, right?
For speed, for instant settlement.
Anja: Yeah.
Zane: And so they serve that utility for utilizing Bitcoin
for day-to-day transactions, but the base layer remains secure.
So there's no compromise in, in, you know, and this is what, you
know, Bitcoin Cash was trying to do.
They were trying to, you know, boost the block sizes so that more
transactions could move through faster and, and more, more, you
know, per, per minute, per second.
Um, and you know, what everybody on the other side wanted was, no, we,
we want to, we don't wanna sacrifice bitcoin's, decentralization and security.
And had something like Bitcoin Cash been able to proliferate, uh, there's
a, there's a school of thought that it would've had a massive, it would've
been centralized, it would've been controlled, it would've been co-opted.
Um, and, you know, and so that's the situation when you hold
Bitcoin, it's like an incorruptible savings account that you have in
cyberspace that is dependable, okay?
That has an audit performed on it every 10 minutes by way of the way that the
protocol, the consensus protocol works.
But if you would need to spend Bitcoin in small amounts, you just
utilize a a, a layer two wallet, such as a lightning wallet, and
you can use it for instant payment.
So if Anja sends me her wallet address for me, for me to send her 10 bucks, well
she can have it in a couple of seconds.
So that's what makes it useful for, you know, day-to-day, day-to-day use.
You know, in, in, in America in May last year, steak and Shake, which is a, a
large, uh, fast food retailer in the us, they enabled Bitcoin payments for their
customers and the people who are buying their burgers and fries with Bitcoin,
that's what they're using, the Layer two Lightning wallet to, you know, to, to,
to make a purchase, uh, uh, like that.
So, uh, just, yeah, hopefully the viewers get some, some value from,
from that little explanation.
Anja: Yeah, absolutely.
And lightning is lightning fast.
Maybe one day, maybe even now, if you wanna do it, I can send you
some SATs and we can do a live demo and how quick it actually is.
So for viewers and listeners, what we are doing right now is, I'm
just gonna send him some SATs.
Uh, most of you won't be familiar that Michelle Bullock, the chair
of the Reserve Bank of Australia, has made some statements about
Bitcoin, which are completely false.
And I think back in 2014, she said, it's not a currency, it's not money.
I don't understand it.
And she also said.
In a separate, uh, discussion when I think she was interviewed by one of the
labor mps, I always forget his name.
But anyway, he asked her if she understands Bitcoin and,
and she said, well, yes I do.
Like I understand it to be quite slow, it takes like 15 minutes.
Um, so yeah, basically if anyone's listening, Michelle, if you are
listening, Bitcoin is exactly on time the way we like it.
And layer two are the ways to scale because we want the on chain to stay
slow and decentralized and secure.
So, absolutely.
So this is me sending some SATs.
And there we go.
Has that landed in your wallet?
Zane: This is me receiving the SATs.
Anja: Did that take 15 minutes?
Zane: That is so cool.
That is so cool for, for people who haven't seen that, that is
the power of Bitcoin, right there.
No intermediary, instant settlement.
And for a merchant, no fees, right?
Whatever fee, it's, it's, it's like so micro, it's, but certainly not the one
and a half, two, three, if you take Amex, it's up around three, 3.5%, right?
And no chargebacks.
So particularly for online shopping, like you hear more and more of these stories.
And we used to have an online, uh, uh, business, uh, e-com
people buy stuff online, okay?
And then it gets delivered, and then they'll go to their bank, right?
And they'll claim a chargeback because it didn't arrive or whatever.
And the bank affects the chargeback for the merchant
and then asks questions later.
Right.
So this is becoming more and more of an issue.
So basically instant settlement, little to no fees and zero chargebacks.
So do you think merchants, as they start to understand this,
are going to embrace Bitcoin?
You know, and I, and the way I understand it, Anja with Square that
you can, uh, accept the Bitcoin and then it will convert into dollars.
So even if your customer wants to pay you in Bitcoin, but you don't want to,
you know, hold the Bitcoin, you can just on, on the back end, there's a
setting so that you can, it converts immediately into, into dollars.
Um, but I think what's gonna happen over time is more and more merchants
are gonna go, you know what?
We want our little Bitcoin stack.
And then they'll probably end up incentivizing their customers to pay.
In Bitcoin.
Paying Bitcoin, you get a 5% discount.
Right.
Or three and a half percent instead of us paying it to the to Visa or MasterCard.
Right.
We're gonna give it to you as the Bitcoin customer.
Yeah.
What do you think?
Anja: Yeah.
And what I love about this, a lot of, um, for merchants who might be curious
but not know, a lot of the point sale, point of sale solutions allow you
to do the same thing in Australia.
So you can actually switch that toggle on and off.
I understand that a lot of businesses are running on very small, you know, profit
margins and whatever money they earn per week, they basically goes on salaries.
So, you know, there are ways for you to kind of switch it on
and off so that when you wanna.
Stack Bitcoin and have like a bit of a reserve.
You can, but then when you also need the liquidity and the fiat to
pay salaries, you can also do that.
So for any listeners, if you are curious about, you know, integrating Bitcoin into
your, um, shop, online shop or physical shop, let me know because I actually do
have Bitcoiners all over Australia who are willing to help, pretty much for
free, um, in, in helping you get set up.
So reach out to me on LinkedIn, reach out to me on X or Instagram
or wherever you can find me.
I'm very, um, contactable, so hope that helps.
Zane: Awesome stuff.
Anja: Zane, before we wrap up, uh, do you have any final words that you wanna share?
I always say this and it sounds so morbid, but do you have any final words
that you wanna share with my listeners?
Obviously I'll link, um, everything in the show notes for your community that
you run and your YouTube channel, but is there anything else you'd like to share?
Zane: Well, my understanding an is that you've called your show
the Honest Money Show, right?
So, uh, it probably stands to reason that there are some of your viewers that are
wanting to learn about Honest Money, um, and maybe they're not already in Bitcoin.
And so if that's the case and you know, the listeners are serious about, uh,
embracing honest money, uh, then you've really gotta embrace Bitcoin because
that's ultimately what Bitcoin is.
It's the most honest, transparent.
Monetary system that we've ever seen.
Um, and you know, I made a video on my YouTube channel in the last couple of days
really highlighting and I guess imploring people to, if they're still sitting
on zero Bitcoin to get off zero, you know, and, and whatever that looks like.
You know, if you can put in $500, a thousand dollars, $10,000, a million
dollars, it doesn't really matter.
I mean, what matters is that you actually start the learning journey.
Um, you know, and I feel the same way about like ai.
Um, I think that both of these things are unstoppable forces and people
who choose not to embrace them, uh, are going to get left behind.
And so really, when it comes to Bitcoin, you know, we're not
here to convince you to buy it.
What we're here to convince you to do is to learn about it.
Okay, if you're not already, um, and if you need help fast tracking your
learning journey, reach out to me.
There's, you know, different resources that I offer and ways
that you can work with, with me.
I mean, any just explained, you know, if you're a merchant, she's very contactable
if you need help with certain things.
Um, but really, you know, it's just all about education and setting aside
a little time every day, every week, whatever it might be, to just, uh,
get yourself to a point where you understand that this is the future.
Bitcoin can't be stopped.
And um, you know, you can either choose to get on the bitcoin life
raft or stay on the sinking ship.
It's really your call.
But, uh, we are here to help educate as many people as possible to get
on the bitcoin life raft and to participate in this bright orange future.
Speaker 3: Love it so much.
Thanks for coming on.
Zane: Appreciate it.
And thank you.
Speaker 6: Still here you are one of the good ones.
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