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Hello and welcome to Pickleball Therapy,
the podcast dedicated to

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your pickleball improvement.

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I am the host of your
weekly podcast, Tony Roig.

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It's a pleasure to be with you.

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Hope you're having a great week.

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This week, it's going to be a fun episode
because we're going to

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go exploring together.

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You and me and the other listeners of the
podcast are going to go on a journey where

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we're going to explore this idea that
I'm working on called empathetic framing.

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Maybe it already exists out there.
I don't know.

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I don't know everything.
All I know is what I know.

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But it's a concept grounded in
framing, as the name suggests.

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Where we're going to look at using framing
to better or

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perhaps to more constructively or
healthily deal with adversity

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on the pickleball court.

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And then this is one of these concepts
that's awesome because you get

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to use it anywhere in the world.

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Where you're facing adversity in
terms of interpersonal relations with

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another pickleball player, a situation.

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Or actually, it's about
interpersonal relations.

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So it's you and another pickleball player,
whether it's your partner,

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another person at the courts.

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And then this concept
applies outside of that.

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Before we dive into it, a
couple of housekeeping items.

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One, I have been remiss to update you on
where we're at in terms of some of the

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other projects that we have at Better
Pickleball, as you may or may not know,

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Pickleball Therapy is part of a much
bigger project called Better Pickleball,

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which is a project that is headed by C.
J.

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Johnson and myself,
but also includes a lot of team members.

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I don't want to list them on
here because they're too many.

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But they know who they are, and they're
helping us a lot in terms of being able to

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bring quality pickleball content to as
many players who are interested

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in learning this type of content.

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But a couple of the initiatives that we
have that are going on right now that you

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might be interested in are, one, we have
been doing some work with the PPA and MLP.

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Those are two of the most
significant pro tours, if you will.

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They have the highest ranked
players in their tour.

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So we've been doing some game breakdown,
some analysis, and things like that on our

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channels, which I think is a
really interesting way of looking at

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a pickleball differently.

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So it's watching pros, which is awesome,
but it's also learning from them.

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And there's a lot that we can learn
from the pros, regardless of level.

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Whether you just started playing six
months ago, you've been playing for a

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while, in your three, five, four, oh,
three, oh, it doesn't matter.

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There's a lot of principles that we can
learn from watching the pros,

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so we're excited about that.

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And then the other project, the MLP
project, is more of a follow them along

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for the season, see what's going on.

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It's a little bit different content
for us, but we're excited to be able to

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do that and be able to magnify the play.

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At the end of the day, it's all about
strengthening our sport for everybody, for

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you, for me, for new players coming in.

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If you play pickleball, and certainly
listen to this podcast,

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you know the impact that pickleball can
have on a player and on their life

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and on the quality of their life.

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And so part of our mission here at Better
Pickable is to strengthen the sport.

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And that includes
what we do on this podcast, what we do in

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our teaching and coaching of students, But
also what we do in general as

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representatives of the sport, and that
includes strengthening

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parts of the sport that are helpful to
get the sport out there to other players.

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And that's part of what we're doing.

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And then the other piece of housekeeping
that I want to share with you is,

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one of the One of the things that I've
been doing for many years now, since at

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least 2019, is our game breakdowns, where
basically we look at a match

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and we study the match.

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In this case, we're studying, I mentioned
the pro breakdowns a minute ago, but in

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this In this case, we're studying a 4.

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0 tournament match.

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It's a really interesting match because it
has opposite philosophies

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or strategies, I should say.

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So two of the players are more like
tennis style, stroking, ground strokes,

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attacking, and things like that.

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And then the other team
is more what you would consider

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like traditional pickleball.

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So third shot drop, dink, grind it out
until you get a pop up and put it away.

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And so it's a really interesting match to
break down and to look at the different

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styles, to look at some of the ideas in
terms of what is it that works and what

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doesn't work, and how do you
get out of tough situations.

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Anyway, so a part of that process
is we call it now the strategy Lab.

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We used to call them game
breakdowns or rally breakdowns.

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Now it's the strategy lab, which
I think communicates it better.

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And we have a strategy lab coming
up, I believe it's on a Tuesday.

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It's at the end of April.

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But if you want to check that out,
I'll put a link in the show notes.

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You can check that out.

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There is a cost for the strategy lab
because there are costs associated with

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bringing you the content
that we bring you.

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But anyway, you're welcome to
join us and check that out.

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If you've never been to one before, I
think you'll find it really interesting.

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All right, let's dive into this
idea of the empathetic framing.

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What is it that we're talking about here?

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So think about a situation at the courts.

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Let's use pickle ball as our
canvas today to explore this.

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So you're at the courts,
and let's assume you're in an open player

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rec situation and you're playing You're
playing with a partner you haven't played

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with before, you know very little of.

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And that partner is just turns away.

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It appears that they drop their
shoulders when you miss a shot.

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It just seems like they're miffed
when they're playing with you.

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And so it's pretty natural for us to
react negatively to that feedback.

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It's rude.

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It's not something It's not something that
we think is appropriate.

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And I'm going to share a
personal story in a minute.

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So explore that one for a second.

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So this partner situation.

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The other situation, and I'll share it
after I set it up,

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it's just where you're at the courts
and you have an experience with another

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person at the courts,
that's just not an agreeable exchange.

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And I'll share the story with you.

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So let's give it some more form.

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So I'm playing a preparatory match, right?

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So it's basically getting
ready for upcoming competition.

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And it's me and my mixed doubles partner
against another mixed doubles team.

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And so we got there early to the courts.
These are public courts.

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We got the early to the courts.

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I think the one other court was being
used, there were six courts total.

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So we get on the court, we're
playing, everything's fine.

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And then we're in our second game and the
courts start filling up, which is fine.

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And we're in the middle.

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I think the score at that
point was 6-6 or 6-5.

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And then a gentleman comes over and
lets us know that

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we need to give up the court when
we're done, or two in and two out.

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That's the rules of the place.

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And there was a little bit...

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One of the players on the court didn't
respond favorably to that, but I jumped in

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immediately and I said, I told the
gentleman, I said,

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Okay, let us finish this match, and then
I'll come over and I'll talk to you.

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Okay, let me just finish the game because
We're in the middle of a game, right?

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When he comes over.

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So wouldn't you know it, this is one
of those games that just goes on.

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And we're all pretty good players on the
court, and so these games can get bogged

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down because of the return side play
is good, so you can't score points.

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So we end up at 10: 10, and
then it's just taking a while.

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It's a grind, 8: 8, 8: 8 for a long time.

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Then finally it's 10: 10.

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And at 10: 10, the same
gentleman comes over.

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Now he has a posse, so now It's him.
It's another gentleman.

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And I believe there was a lady, I'm not
100 % sure, but there was

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three of them that came over.

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Anyway, so he comes over
and he says something to us.

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And I said, I told you I'm going
to come over when the game is over.

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That's what I said.

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And he takes a step forward and he says...

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He's already pretty close to me.

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He takes a step forward and he says
something like, Oh, what are you

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guys playing Forever or something.

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And so I look at him and I say, Why
are you taking a step toward me?

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Why are you being aggressive?
Or something like that.

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And then the other gentleman who
turned out to be a true gentleman.

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And I'm not going to say this person,
this gentleman wasn't the first one.

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And I'll explain that in a second
with the empathetic framing.

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But the other gentleman, whose
name was Mike, super nice guy.

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He looked at me, he goes,
okay, listen, that's great.

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Just please come.
I said, yeah, absolutely.

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I'll come over and I'll find you.

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And then we finished the match.

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But by now, the four of us were put
off a little bit, right?

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We're thinking about this stuff and the
play deteriorates for the

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next couple of rallies.

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Anyway, we solved the thing
with the court, right?

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But what I wanted to talk about is how do
we deal with the first gentleman, the one

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who was clearly perturbed and clearly
thought it was his role in the universe to

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police the courts and to
ensure that whatever was happening.

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And And also the challenge when another
human being, just like him, told him that

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we hadn't yet finished
the game, which we hadn't.

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Anyway, so how do we deal with that?

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How do we deal with situations where you
have a partner that maybe is acting a

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certain way or another person
that's behaving a certain way?

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And I started thinking about this idea of
using framing to think through that, and

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to maybe come up with a way of dealing
with it that is more constructive and

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healthier for everybody, including us.

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So in my In your place, including me,
and in your case, including you.

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I try to live by this idea that as
long as I don't interfere with your rights

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or your ability to make your way through
life, then I get to do what I want to do.

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And so do you.

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You get to live your life the way you want
to live it, as long as you

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don't interfere with my thing.

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That's my operating principle.

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But it's important for you as an
individual to

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experience your life in as positive a way
as possible, without these types of things

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bringing you down or weighing you down in
ways that don't really make

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sense at the end of the day.

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One way to deal with it was you
could go Buddhist on it, right?

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And you could be, and remember, I told you
we're going to be working

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through this, right?

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So sometimes this is
development in process.

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Even the name of it came to me as I
started making some notes about the idea.

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So you could go totally
Buddhist on it, right?

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Which is like,
this is the living the moment and

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what just happened, just happened.

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And you can't impact how I
feel and things like that.

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That's good stuff, right?

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The idea that No matter what you say to
me, they're just words until

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I let them impact me, right?

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That thinking, it's fantastic.
It's great.

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But it takes some time
to get to that place.

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And I'm not at that place.

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So what about if we took a framing that
was more empathetic toward

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the other actor?

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Because what we're doing in those
situations when we have an adverse

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interaction is we are reacting to
something that another actor is doing.

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So in my case, it's the
gentleman coming to the court.

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The first time, okay,
we're new to the courts.

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We don't know the rules, and fine, okay.

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Second time,
starts It starts off not great, but then

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it gets worse when I tell him the
situation and he just decides

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to close ranks with me.

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And I'm looking at him like, I guess
we're throwing down or something.

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I don't know what's happening here.

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But the empathetic framing would be,
I don't know his life.

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I don't know this person.
Never met him before.

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And I have no idea.

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Is it possible that he's
going through a tough time?

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Is it possible that
he lost somebody close to him recently or

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he's going through a
separation or I don't know.

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I have no way.

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I don't have any idea of health issues.

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I mean, there's a million things you can
think of that

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could be something that was swaying on
this person

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and that caused the person then to
take a position on something that is,

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from my perspective, not necessary, right?

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And maybe even unreasonable,
but that's from my perspective.

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The empathetic framing is allowing this
person to have their own

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place, their own thing, right?

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Their own way of doing it
without judging the

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rightness or the wrongness of it
by being empathetic to

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them and allowing it to be maybe just
something that they're going through.

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And so it got me to thinking about, I
wonder if we could do that big picture.

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You're playing in a match
and someone's just being an a-hole.

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I guess it's a podcast,
I guess an asshole.

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Someone's just being an asshole.
They're just being wrong.

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And remember, you still
have the agency idea.

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I don't know if you haven't
listened to that podcast.

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We did a podcast and
wrote a blog about it.

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You can find it at the
website at betterprickable.

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Com.

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But it talks about the idea that,
I think it's called No Thank

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You is the name of the blog.

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But the idea there is someone's just
going to be demeaning or rude or whatever.

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You don't have to play with them.
You do have that agency.

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You can protect yourself.
That's okay.

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But if you do choose to play with them, or
if you're trying to

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figure out why is this person so
whatever, could be a number of reasons.

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And I will also say, some of
those reasons can be cultural.

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You could be playing with
somebody from a different...

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Even not just a
foreigner who lives here, or someone who

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is with a background from another country.

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It can be somebody from the United States
who New Yorkers are different than people

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from North Carolina, different from
Florida, different from Ohio,

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different from California.
I mean, think of different states.

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They have different ways of being.

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And so sometimes the
way that there was a player I used to play

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with named David from
Brooklyn, I think he was.

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I know he's from New York, I think he was
Brooklyn or the Bronx, I can't remember.

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He was a B, I think.

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But he was like a handball
player from there.

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Wears like wife beaters.

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A nice guy, good guy.
I like the guy, right?

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But he's New York.

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He's got a little brash and a little...

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If you had a shot, he
doesn't think it's good.

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He's like, That was really
stupid or something.

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But to me, it's okay.

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But my point is in this framing, in this
context, or the conversation is

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understanding that David has a
different background than I do.

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He has a different way
of expressing things.

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And maybe it's not the
way I would express it.

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And maybe if I was the one expressing it
that way, that have a

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certain meaning to it.

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But maybe it doesn't from him.

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Or again, maybe he or she or whoever it
is is having a bad day or a bad week.

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And so if we can start from that premise,
meaning you have a negative interaction or

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interaction that your initial
instinct is to go negative on.

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And negative is not a judgment
on you because it's normal.

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They said something and you're like,
that That didn't sound right to me.

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That felt like it attacked me or felt like
it made me feel bad or

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whatever the negative is.

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So that's your initial
natural response to it.

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Maybe you take a moment and you say,
You know what?

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Maybe I give them the benefit of the
doubt, meaning

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maybe it's just a bad day for them.

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Again, maybe they
fill in the blank, right?

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Something happened to them that is
occasioning them behave in

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a way that perhaps is not...

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It's not like their core personality
to just be an asshole, right?

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That's not the thing.

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It's just a bad day.

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And that empathetic framing then allows
you to avoid the negativity for yourself.

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Because whenever you have a negative
reaction, remember, it's

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00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,975
not just an objective negative reaction
and goes on a scoreboard or

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something and it's not a big deal.
It's like nothing.

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00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,535
Any time you have a negative reaction,
it's on It's going to linger on you.

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It's in your mind.
It's in your heart.

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It just weighs on you.

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00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:11,080
And so if you can approach it from an
empathetic framing, it's good for them,

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00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,215
we'll call them the
I'm trying to go the other way.

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00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:17,940
It's not an aggressor, but it's the...

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00:17:17,965 --> 00:17:21,855
Anyway, for the other person, for the
person who's acting, behaving

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not the way we want to.

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So it's good for them because you're being
empathetic and you're allowing it to be,

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00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,020
okay, maybe they're just having a bad day.

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But it's also good for you
because you can avoid taking it personal,

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taking it like it's something about you.

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00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,880
Instead of being about you,
just make it about them and leave it

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00:17:44,905 --> 00:17:46,695
at that because there's really no...

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00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:53,095
If you think it through right, there's no
game plan here.

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00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:54,000
There's no action item.
There's nothing to...

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00:17:54,025 --> 00:17:55,400
What are you going to do?

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00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:00,455
They said something rude or they
behaved in a rude way.

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00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,375
And if you can let that go behind you and
you don't have to go quite to the Buddhist

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00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,535
level of just, you can't hurt me unless I
let you, a thing, which

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00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:08,560
is, again, fantastic.

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00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,375
You can use this empathetic framing,
maybe, to give you an ability to get out

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00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:18,255
of that situation in your mind by
allowing it to live where it needs to

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00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:23,695
live, which is with them and not with you.

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00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,775
So hopefully this idea of empathetic
framing made some sense

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00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,520
as we work through it.

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00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,160
And like everything on the podcast, if you
listen to the podcast for a long time, you

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00:18:32,185 --> 00:18:39,455
might know that
this podcast began in 2020 as a personal

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00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,575
journey for me, as a personal
development project for me.

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00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,975
And so some of this process is working
through some of these

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00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:48,400
concepts as they develop.

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00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:55,415
And I assure you that I will be noodling
over this concept over

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00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,135
the next period of time.

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00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:59,975
One more piece of housekeeping
before we wrap today.

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If you're a therapist, and my guess is if
you're a therapist, you made it this far

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00:19:03,665 --> 00:19:07,215
in the podcast, if you started listening
to it, be on the look for an email.

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00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:12,975
I'm going to do a little
town hall for us, a little meeting for us

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00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,615
where we can all get together,
share what's going on, see

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00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,120
what's going on with the podcast.
I want to give you guys some updates.

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00:19:19,145 --> 00:19:24,015
And in total transparency, I'm going to
ask you guys to see if you're interested

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00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:29,240
in a couple of upcoming projects that we
have with the podcast and with the

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00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:30,975
book which will come out.

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00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:35,615
I actually had a conversation today with
a book publishing representative.

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00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,480
So I think we're taking steps.
We're moving forward.

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All right.
I hope you enjoyed this week's podcast.

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00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,320
As always, if you have a minute, Rating
and Reviewing helps us

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00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:46,440
if you have a moment.

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00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,815
Also, one other thing is if you don't mind
subscribing to the YouTube channel, if you

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00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,895
haven't done that, it's the same
name, Pickable Therapy on YouTube.

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00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,295
We have over a thousand subscribers
on there, and that's great.

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00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:02,135
But the more we can get traction on
YouTube, then we'll be able to reach

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00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,320
players through that medium as well.

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00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,775
And as always, if you enjoyed this podcast
and this idea of empathetic

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00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,330
framing, share it with your friends.

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00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:14,535
If you enjoyed or benefited from this
podcast, I'm pretty confident they will

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00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:21,215
have a great week, and I'll see you on the
next episode of Pickable Therapy, and

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00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,880
hopefully I'll see some of
you all in the strategy.