1 00:00:05,239 --> 00:00:06,979 Good morning, great connections listeners. 2 00:00:06,979 --> 00:00:11,619 Thank you for your patience on this last two week hiatus. 3 00:00:11,619 --> 00:00:15,199 In full disclosure, I just started a new job at a flight school in central Oregon 4 00:00:15,199 --> 00:00:19,079 and it has caused me to be able to have some challenges with recording the last 5 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,559 couple of weeks and I'm hoping moving forward there won't be as many delays but 6 00:00:22,559 --> 00:00:25,979 just full disclosure that may happen in the future again. 7 00:00:25,979 --> 00:00:27,879 But today I'm joined by Steve Brichette. 8 00:00:27,879 --> 00:00:31,958 He's an EV educator and the founder of Plug and Play EV. 9 00:00:31,958 --> 00:00:35,218 He shares with us his experience on electric vehicles, especially kind of 10 00:00:35,218 --> 00:00:39,978 living in the Boston area now, dealing with sometimes the winter and cold of 11 00:00:39,978 --> 00:00:45,938 Northeast US can be a challenge for EVs and how he's been able to really excel and 12 00:00:45,938 --> 00:00:49,398 make it easier and educate others about the advantages of actually still being 13 00:00:49,398 --> 00:00:53,658 able to go to an electric vehicle, even in the cold and try to get over a lot of 14 00:00:53,658 --> 00:00:55,198 those misperceptions. 15 00:00:55,198 --> 00:00:59,478 I do also want to share that if you're listening today on Wednesday, April 10th, 16 00:00:59,478 --> 00:01:01,686 I'll actually be going live today at 17 00:01:01,686 --> 00:01:07,866 5pm pacific on his youtube channel plug and play ev where i'll be discussing road 18 00:01:07,866 --> 00:01:11,666 tripping in an ev so definitely going to be a great episode really recommend you 19 00:01:11,666 --> 00:01:15,666 check that out and would love to kind of get any feedback and thoughts for being on 20 00:01:15,666 --> 00:01:20,286 other channels as well which reminds me i want to say thank you for all of the great 21 00:01:20,286 --> 00:01:24,310 suggestions for having people on our show that you've sent to us 22 00:01:24,310 --> 00:01:28,590 One thing worth noting though, if you can also occasionally reach out to these 23 00:01:28,590 --> 00:01:32,130 people that you're trying to get on the show, it does help and it makes it easier 24 00:01:32,130 --> 00:01:33,750 for us to get them on. 25 00:01:33,750 --> 00:01:38,310 But really looking forward to some of the upcoming episodes that we're working on. 26 00:01:38,310 --> 00:01:42,316 And so I just want to say with that, enjoy. 27 00:01:42,376 --> 00:01:43,677 So thank you, Steve. 28 00:01:43,748 --> 00:01:45,763 Yeah, thank you, Chase I appreciate you having me. 29 00:01:46,150 --> 00:01:48,821 Yeah, for anyone who might not be familiar, can you tell us a little bit 30 00:01:48,821 --> 00:01:52,433 more about what you're doing and then also your company? 31 00:01:53,168 --> 00:01:58,130 So I'm relatively new as an EV business, I guess, but a long time EV driver. 32 00:01:58,130 --> 00:02:02,712 So I've had about seven or eight years now driving electric, but kind of came into 33 00:02:02,712 --> 00:02:09,114 the business side of it as an EV content creator and educator, I guess, about six, 34 00:02:09,114 --> 00:02:09,895 seven months ago. 35 00:02:09,895 --> 00:02:14,497 So Plug and Play EV started live as a YouTube channel, just trying to kind of 36 00:02:14,497 --> 00:02:18,778 bring the adventures of a lonely or adventurous, depending on how you think 37 00:02:18,778 --> 00:02:21,744 about it, bolt EV driver in the Northeast. 38 00:02:21,744 --> 00:02:26,509 heading across various trips, but that kind of evolved into a YouTube channel 39 00:02:26,509 --> 00:02:31,054 that's got a nice little following now and has slowly moved into becoming kind of a 40 00:02:31,054 --> 00:02:33,417 marketer and content creator in the EV space. 41 00:02:33,417 --> 00:02:38,062 So I always try and put myself as an educator first and business second, but 42 00:02:38,062 --> 00:02:39,823 the two align quite well. 43 00:02:40,858 --> 00:02:44,822 So I mean, yeah, a bolt driver, there's especially in the Northeast with the 44 00:02:44,822 --> 00:02:48,086 different weather and a lot of the challenges you get up there. 45 00:02:48,086 --> 00:02:52,551 Is there anything you can share maybe just as a story that makes you a little 46 00:02:52,551 --> 00:02:58,778 standout or a time that just you felt like being a heavy driver, whether it was the 47 00:02:58,778 --> 00:03:01,981 infrastructure of the car that really kind of tested your metal? 48 00:03:02,076 --> 00:03:03,016 All of it really. 49 00:03:03,016 --> 00:03:07,858 Well, the Bolt's been a very solid EV, it has its obvious limitations on the fast 50 00:03:07,858 --> 00:03:11,340 charging side, because it's four or five times slower than some of the more modern 51 00:03:11,340 --> 00:03:11,720 cars. 52 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,862 But initially the channel kind of started out of a, I wasn't even sure if it really 53 00:03:15,862 --> 00:03:19,444 needed a channel because there were some really good Bolt TV content creators, Eric 54 00:03:19,444 --> 00:03:23,445 Way of the News Coolum channel out on the west coast, was doing a great job from 55 00:03:23,445 --> 00:03:24,546 California. 56 00:03:24,666 --> 00:03:28,368 But I started to realise that charging wasn't, as we all know now, charging 57 00:03:28,368 --> 00:03:32,189 wasn't particularly great in the winter, the cold of the north east. 58 00:03:32,570 --> 00:03:36,432 as bad as maybe Canada or all the kind of Minnesota type winters but it still 59 00:03:36,432 --> 00:03:40,515 affects charging and I didn't see any videos out there any content on that so I 60 00:03:40,515 --> 00:03:44,978 started to kind of just film the sessions figure out what I was doing and thought 61 00:03:44,978 --> 00:03:49,201 well maybe that needs to be shared with other Northeast bolt owners and it kind of 62 00:03:49,201 --> 00:03:53,684 grew from that nucleus but yeah charging infrastructure has been a big one since 63 00:03:53,684 --> 00:03:58,968 day one obviously it's you know night and day difference now but certainly still has 64 00:03:58,968 --> 00:04:02,030 a ways to go in terms of reliability and coverage in 65 00:04:02,030 --> 00:04:06,295 areas but yeah just really starting to try and get that information out there from 66 00:04:06,295 --> 00:04:11,722 day one as a bolt TV owner to figure out how we use these cars and what we need to 67 00:04:11,722 --> 00:04:13,423 do to make the infrastructure better. 68 00:04:14,406 --> 00:04:15,186 Yeah, that's great. 69 00:04:15,186 --> 00:04:16,788 I know the bolts are pretty popular. 70 00:04:16,788 --> 00:04:17,509 I'm just curious. 71 00:04:17,509 --> 00:04:20,692 I haven't heard as many people are driving them in the cold. 72 00:04:20,692 --> 00:04:27,059 And so have there been any challenges that you've had around just making sure that 73 00:04:27,059 --> 00:04:32,225 the thermals and kind of road tripping or do you see a pretty big hit when doing a 74 00:04:32,225 --> 00:04:33,105 road trip? 75 00:04:33,352 --> 00:04:34,112 Yeah, you 76 00:05:03,426 --> 00:05:06,588 in the warmer months as it drops down in New England. 77 00:05:06,588 --> 00:05:11,331 And I'm in greater Boston, so it's not exactly frigid, but it is below freezing 78 00:05:11,331 --> 00:05:12,431 often enough. 79 00:05:12,812 --> 00:05:17,055 And then you're getting charging rates that are maybe in half, and the mileage 80 00:05:17,055 --> 00:05:20,157 gets down to that 180, 170 miles. 81 00:05:20,157 --> 00:05:24,920 So it's just about really knowing what your long trips can then start to drag a 82 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,882 little bit, because you've got the hit of range, you've got the hit of slower 83 00:05:27,882 --> 00:05:32,205 charging, and that starts to get into a little bit of drag. 84 00:05:33,166 --> 00:05:36,107 many rip road trips I think you want to take in the winter right so maybe 85 00:05:36,107 --> 00:05:40,390 Thanksgiving down to Grandma's house Christmas that kind of thing but January 86 00:05:40,390 --> 00:05:45,173 February March we didn't typically do a lot of road trips so really only those two 87 00:05:45,173 --> 00:05:48,295 months of kind of the holidays were the real kind of killers 88 00:05:49,222 --> 00:05:53,206 Yeah, and so I appreciate you sharing that with me from when talking about being an 89 00:05:53,206 --> 00:05:54,066 EV educator. 90 00:05:54,066 --> 00:05:57,250 And for those who are listening, I'm sure that's something a lot of people who would 91 00:05:57,250 --> 00:06:00,252 want to know more or kind of see some of the stuff that you're doing. 92 00:06:00,273 --> 00:06:02,995 And as I mentioned, you have your YouTube video, but can you share some other kind 93 00:06:02,995 --> 00:06:07,160 of examples of things that you do and offer to kind of help others learn more 94 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:08,841 about electric vehicles? 95 00:06:09,036 --> 00:06:13,518 Yeah, so I've got a long background in content marketing, so I've kind of always 96 00:06:13,518 --> 00:06:18,340 appreciated that using information to share services. 97 00:06:18,340 --> 00:06:22,982 So a lot of folks who are new to the EV business world are also very good 98 00:06:22,982 --> 00:06:25,563 educators or could be very good educators. 99 00:06:25,563 --> 00:06:29,845 So the goal is really to take what those folks do, whether it's myself or other 100 00:06:29,845 --> 00:06:34,627 companies, and just figure out how they can translate that into information that 101 00:06:34,627 --> 00:06:37,108 connects with the consumers, the people who are using 102 00:06:39,390 --> 00:06:45,214 who have a little, not very much experience in the EV side and figuring out 103 00:06:45,214 --> 00:06:51,177 how to best communicate and package that content to educate their potential buyers. 104 00:06:51,358 --> 00:06:55,981 Could be the YouTube side of things, videos, whether it's X, LinkedIn, there's 105 00:06:55,981 --> 00:07:00,464 a bunch of platforms, but really it's about figuring out what the potential 106 00:07:00,464 --> 00:07:05,427 information provider can give to folks and then packaging it in a way that they can 107 00:07:05,427 --> 00:07:08,830 find it and consume it in the right kind of length and something 108 00:07:08,830 --> 00:07:09,893 That's right for them. 109 00:07:10,822 --> 00:07:15,284 Yeah, so I'm kind of curious since you've been doing this now for a while What are 110 00:07:15,284 --> 00:07:18,906 some of the are there any trends that you've seen about like a lot of people 111 00:07:18,906 --> 00:07:20,827 used to ask about this or have these? 112 00:07:20,827 --> 00:07:25,629 Misperceptions and that started to change is that something you're saying? 113 00:07:25,824 --> 00:07:27,204 It's almost reverted. 114 00:07:27,204 --> 00:07:27,825 It's strange. 115 00:07:27,825 --> 00:07:31,866 It's, you know, the first wave of folks were very obviously early adopters and a 116 00:07:31,866 --> 00:07:35,968 lot of people did their homework, you know, way more than the dealers and people 117 00:07:35,968 --> 00:07:38,229 they may go to seek help from. 118 00:07:38,229 --> 00:07:42,391 So they, that first group of people, yourself, myself, and a bunch of others 119 00:07:42,391 --> 00:07:45,753 kind of went in knowing what we needed to know, and probably a lot more that we 120 00:07:45,753 --> 00:07:46,453 didn't. 121 00:07:47,114 --> 00:07:51,876 But then the next wave has kind of, it's starting to hit the, not the mainstream 122 00:07:51,876 --> 00:07:54,437 exactly, but we're on that kind of tipping point, right? 123 00:07:55,598 --> 00:07:58,620 And you've got now a little pushback against DVs, so you're seeing some of the 124 00:07:58,620 --> 00:08:01,602 same kind of conversations you had for people who were enthusiastic about 125 00:08:01,602 --> 00:08:05,664 electric vehicles, but maybe had some questions about, as you said, range in 126 00:08:05,664 --> 00:08:10,387 winter, how they perform on long trips, that kind of thing, and where to charge 127 00:08:10,387 --> 00:08:11,508 them, of course. 128 00:08:11,888 --> 00:08:17,332 That's coming back, and part of it is because of the kind of media, it's 129 00:08:17,332 --> 00:08:21,515 coverage that is not always negative, but there's certainly a kind of hint of, will 130 00:08:21,515 --> 00:08:22,255 these work? 131 00:08:22,255 --> 00:08:24,897 Will they destroy the grid? 132 00:08:25,478 --> 00:08:29,162 run out of juice on the side of the road and none of that really happens to the 133 00:08:29,162 --> 00:08:33,287 everyday you know early adopter certainly and the infrastructure is getting so much 134 00:08:33,287 --> 00:08:38,714 better that really those kind of range concerns aren't that much of a real-world 135 00:08:38,714 --> 00:08:39,888 problem but 136 00:08:39,888 --> 00:08:46,430 The media perception is one that you have to constantly morph and explain why some 137 00:08:46,430 --> 00:08:47,471 things are valid. 138 00:08:47,471 --> 00:08:50,192 People need to know what range they'll get, what kind of charging speeds, how 139 00:08:50,192 --> 00:08:51,772 many times they're going to stop. 140 00:08:51,772 --> 00:08:55,454 But realistically you're not going to run out on the side of the road unless you're 141 00:08:55,454 --> 00:08:59,675 in a very unplanned road trip in the middle of the Great Plains maybe. 142 00:09:00,114 --> 00:09:03,995 Yeah, and it definitely does seem like obviously there's the narrative and a 143 00:09:03,995 --> 00:09:06,936 little bit of the clicks that drives from that. 144 00:09:06,936 --> 00:09:12,738 But it does seem like there's almost a lag in the perception because in some ways, 145 00:09:12,738 --> 00:09:15,979 like especially around the charging stuff, a couple of years ago, yeah, it was pretty 146 00:09:15,979 --> 00:09:16,840 bad. 147 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:18,860 And even like 18 months ago, it was pretty bad. 148 00:09:18,860 --> 00:09:21,861 And now it's definitely gotten a lot better, a lot smoother. 149 00:09:22,226 --> 00:09:25,767 And it's just interesting that now within the last six months, you're starting to 150 00:09:25,767 --> 00:09:26,387 see these stories. 151 00:09:26,387 --> 00:09:30,329 So it just seems like it was kind of lagging some of the perceptions and the 152 00:09:30,329 --> 00:09:31,790 facts of what was actually happening. 153 00:09:31,790 --> 00:09:33,090 And my apologies. 154 00:09:33,150 --> 00:09:36,311 My dog is in the room and I think he's just leaving. 155 00:09:36,311 --> 00:09:38,312 So if you hear the noises, that's what it is. 156 00:09:38,552 --> 00:09:44,175 But talking about that, kind of looking at that, what do you think are some of the 157 00:09:44,175 --> 00:09:47,956 areas that when you have these conversations, what are some of the things 158 00:09:47,956 --> 00:09:50,777 that when you talk with the person that they're like, oh, 159 00:09:50,970 --> 00:09:55,192 I never thought about that and that kind of then reframes the conversation and 160 00:09:55,192 --> 00:09:59,635 starts to kind of get them excited or much more optimistic and start to see like, oh 161 00:09:59,635 --> 00:10:04,877 yeah, going to an EV really isn't a change and actually it's a benefit for me. 162 00:10:05,500 --> 00:10:09,684 I think the biggest thing is the gap between when they'll need to refuel and 163 00:10:09,684 --> 00:10:14,268 how, because the biggest focus is always on road trips, especially in North 164 00:10:14,268 --> 00:10:18,252 America, you have big dis-fast distances to cover, those trips that people make 165 00:10:18,252 --> 00:10:22,016 once or twice a year become the first thing they think about, so you have a 166 00:10:22,016 --> 00:10:25,039 range of 250-300 miles, although there are 167 00:10:25,632 --> 00:10:29,153 EVs that do much more than that now, but that's kind of the typical spot at the 168 00:10:29,153 --> 00:10:29,993 moment. 169 00:10:30,094 --> 00:10:34,776 People think, well my family's house is 400 miles away so I don't know the first 170 00:10:34,776 --> 00:10:35,816 thing about how to get there. 171 00:10:35,816 --> 00:10:37,917 So that's fine and that's a trip to plan for. 172 00:10:37,917 --> 00:10:39,718 Certainly it's good that they're thinking about that. 173 00:10:39,718 --> 00:10:43,260 But what they don't think about perhaps is the other 50 weeks of the year when 174 00:10:43,260 --> 00:10:44,540 they're not making those trips. 175 00:10:44,540 --> 00:10:47,722 And you know, a lot of people can charge in their driveway or at home. 176 00:10:47,722 --> 00:10:52,624 You know, obviously there's different use case scenarios for different residential 177 00:10:52,624 --> 00:10:54,665 areas, but two thirds of the country. 178 00:10:55,626 --> 00:10:59,929 consider an EV at the moment can charge at home and get that benefit of, you know, 179 00:10:59,929 --> 00:11:02,070 one-time installation of a home charger. 180 00:11:02,070 --> 00:11:03,692 It's not generally that expensive. 181 00:11:03,692 --> 00:11:07,354 Sometimes you can do it off the existing connections, depending on your home 182 00:11:07,354 --> 00:11:10,117 situation and how old the home is. 183 00:11:10,117 --> 00:11:15,120 But really, the, you know, how much benefit they're going to get from that to 184 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:16,882 wait like my car's ready to go now. 185 00:11:16,882 --> 00:11:19,403 It's a 90% sitting there, you know. 186 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,242 just ready to leave the house because I charged last night. 187 00:11:22,242 --> 00:11:25,605 So you're cutting out that weekly gas errand, and most people don't think about 188 00:11:25,605 --> 00:11:27,246 that because it's just part of their lives now. 189 00:11:27,246 --> 00:11:29,128 They just stop for that five, 10 minutes. 190 00:11:29,128 --> 00:11:30,970 But sometimes it's a dedicated errand. 191 00:11:30,970 --> 00:11:33,692 Sometimes you wake up for the school run and you haven't, you know, a person who 192 00:11:33,692 --> 00:11:35,594 had it the previous day didn't fill it up. 193 00:11:35,594 --> 00:11:39,257 And that's something you're cutting out of your weekly day-to-day life, which is, you 194 00:11:39,257 --> 00:11:42,740 know, most of the time, most of the year, rather than this one trip that kind of 195 00:11:42,740 --> 00:11:46,223 people fixate on that they will have to figure out charging. 196 00:11:47,118 --> 00:11:50,499 Yeah, it's funny you mention that because I find like when I talk to people about 197 00:11:50,499 --> 00:11:55,680 that kind of road trip misperception, I think it's Uh, I think the logic and the 198 00:11:55,680 --> 00:12:00,422 concern behind it is understandable But it's kind of funny. 199 00:12:00,422 --> 00:12:04,743 I now admittedly i'm kind of One of the few people that does do road trips and 200 00:12:04,743 --> 00:12:09,605 actually fairly frequently but multiple times i've done About 1200 miles in a day 201 00:12:09,605 --> 00:12:12,385 in an eevee and i've done it in a gas car, too 202 00:12:12,838 --> 00:12:16,140 And when people hear that, they're like, oh, so it is even possible. 203 00:12:16,140 --> 00:12:18,482 But then I've just also found right or wrong. 204 00:12:18,482 --> 00:12:21,745 I started like asking people and kind of pushing them on it like the last time 205 00:12:21,745 --> 00:12:22,946 they've gone on a road trip. 206 00:12:22,946 --> 00:12:24,888 And for most people, it's not even like once a year. 207 00:12:24,888 --> 00:12:28,411 It has either been multiple years or they're like, well, I guess I never really 208 00:12:28,411 --> 00:12:28,611 have. 209 00:12:28,611 --> 00:12:30,352 I usually fly. 210 00:12:30,352 --> 00:12:31,832 And yeah. 211 00:12:31,832 --> 00:12:33,533 right, of how much would you drive? 212 00:12:33,533 --> 00:12:36,234 A lot of people do like to drive and that's great, but if you'd like to drive 213 00:12:36,234 --> 00:12:40,216 you'll probably like the EV side because you get to have those nice stops every 214 00:12:40,216 --> 00:12:43,077 200, 300 miles depending on your range. 215 00:12:43,338 --> 00:12:45,819 But if it gets to that kind of, as you were talking about, you know, if you're 216 00:12:45,819 --> 00:12:49,741 getting to four digits of driving, that's multiple days trips, you know, and at that 217 00:12:49,741 --> 00:12:52,962 point the time concern really goes out of the window because the flying parts of it, 218 00:12:52,962 --> 00:12:55,294 unless you really have a lot of stuff to move. 219 00:12:55,294 --> 00:12:55,904 Right. 220 00:12:55,904 --> 00:12:56,885 and it goes out the window. 221 00:12:56,885 --> 00:13:01,629 So I never dismiss the long trip concern, but it definitely takes up most of the 222 00:13:01,629 --> 00:13:04,712 oxygen in the room when the local day-to-day driving and how much driving 223 00:13:04,712 --> 00:13:08,575 you actually do doesn't seem to register with people, you know. 224 00:13:08,750 --> 00:13:09,790 No, I totally agree. 225 00:13:09,790 --> 00:13:12,452 I just think it's been interesting when I've started really talking to people. 226 00:13:12,452 --> 00:13:15,854 It just seems like more and more I've pushed people on that and they're like, 227 00:13:15,854 --> 00:13:17,595 yeah, I guess I really don't do those anymore. 228 00:13:17,595 --> 00:13:21,597 And I think that just is something they kind of keep hearing. 229 00:13:21,597 --> 00:13:25,739 And it and once again, I don't want to say people don't do that. 230 00:13:25,739 --> 00:13:29,101 I know plenty of people who do, but it's just shocking to me. 231 00:13:29,281 --> 00:13:32,283 Even over like the last five or six years, when I've started like really talking to 232 00:13:32,283 --> 00:13:33,604 people about that more than I like. 233 00:13:33,604 --> 00:13:37,165 Yeah, I guess I've maybe only ever driven four to five hundred miles in a day. 234 00:13:37,292 --> 00:13:38,262 Yeah, I think that's all. 235 00:13:38,262 --> 00:13:40,883 into the rare thing where I yell, I'll do a thousand. 236 00:13:41,064 --> 00:13:43,926 It's a long day, but even with an EV, it does add time. 237 00:13:43,926 --> 00:13:47,288 But if you're smart about it, it's really not as big of a difference. 238 00:13:47,288 --> 00:13:50,570 And like you said, it's kind of nice actually, every hour and a half to two 239 00:13:50,570 --> 00:13:55,553 hours, just to kind of get out for like 10, 15 minutes, walk around, stretch, and 240 00:13:55,553 --> 00:13:57,095 kind of a good mental reboot. 241 00:13:57,095 --> 00:13:57,856 on a road trip. 242 00:13:57,856 --> 00:14:02,923 I mean, there are natural limitations just to the human, but whether it's the car or 243 00:14:02,923 --> 00:14:08,331 keep going, but the human has to stop, stretch, eat, all the rest of it. 244 00:14:08,398 --> 00:14:10,618 Exactly and I would definitely run into those. 245 00:14:11,098 --> 00:14:14,039 And I think that's where you just have to be smart about it and try to figure out 246 00:14:14,039 --> 00:14:19,241 where you want to make those stops or if you decide you need to stop sooner. 247 00:14:20,401 --> 00:14:23,963 That's kind of where it's important to have not only just working charging 248 00:14:23,963 --> 00:14:27,144 infrastructure but like a car with a really reliable nav system where you can 249 00:14:27,144 --> 00:14:29,004 say, okay, yep, this works. 250 00:14:29,124 --> 00:14:31,225 Hopping out. 251 00:14:32,205 --> 00:14:33,185 Exactly. 252 00:14:33,380 --> 00:14:37,884 Previously we would make these road trips around the Charger, you know, wouldn't 253 00:14:37,884 --> 00:14:39,025 really gloss over that. 254 00:14:39,025 --> 00:14:41,787 It was, we had to stop where the Charger was. 255 00:14:42,107 --> 00:14:46,792 So that, I quite often go from New York to Ohio and that's a fairly well covered 256 00:14:46,792 --> 00:14:47,032 route. 257 00:14:47,032 --> 00:14:50,154 Now we see that changing every time we go across. 258 00:14:50,154 --> 00:14:54,498 Now you could stop at these brand new throughway plazas that have four, six, 259 00:14:54,498 --> 00:14:55,319 eight Chargers. 260 00:14:55,319 --> 00:14:57,801 And you know, there's Tesla ones as well, pretty close. 261 00:14:57,801 --> 00:15:00,423 There's been a regular non-Tesla. 262 00:15:00,784 --> 00:15:01,725 connectors as well. 263 00:15:01,725 --> 00:15:04,888 So you've got the options there now but that wasn't the case, you know, even as 264 00:15:04,888 --> 00:15:08,592 you said, you know, 18 months maybe two or three years ago certainly. 265 00:15:08,832 --> 00:15:13,197 There was much more organization around where the charges were than now when you 266 00:15:13,197 --> 00:15:16,921 can start to get off the, you know, most of these service platters, at least along 267 00:15:16,921 --> 00:15:18,262 the routes that I travel. 268 00:15:18,598 --> 00:15:22,739 Yeah, I think there's quite a few trips I've done kind of through the Midwest, and 269 00:15:22,739 --> 00:15:27,860 that is where you might get a little bit more challenging, but like you're saying, 270 00:15:27,860 --> 00:15:31,301 it's becoming more common to find these things. 271 00:15:31,301 --> 00:15:35,482 The actual infrastructure itself has been more reliable for me at least. 272 00:15:35,723 --> 00:15:40,664 And then the documentation, even if it's not the car, just even the amount of apps 273 00:15:40,664 --> 00:15:45,185 now that are pretty effective for planning and finding these stops is made it a lot 274 00:15:45,185 --> 00:15:45,965 easier. 275 00:15:46,220 --> 00:15:46,920 Yeah, for sure. 276 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,061 And it's kind of that's what's going to keep changing. 277 00:15:49,061 --> 00:15:52,322 The big focus in the middle of the country is really building out those travel 278 00:15:52,322 --> 00:15:54,744 corridors with the funding that's going through at the moment. 279 00:15:54,744 --> 00:15:59,766 So if you look at the amount of changes every week, but it was about last time I 280 00:15:59,766 --> 00:16:04,548 checked, 56%, 57% of that funding has gone to gas stations and truck stops, because 281 00:16:04,548 --> 00:16:08,050 that's where those, when you think about what's off and exit at most of these 282 00:16:08,050 --> 00:16:10,411 places on travel routes, that's what's there. 283 00:16:10,411 --> 00:16:15,213 So a lot of these loves Flying J, Travel Senses of America, 284 00:16:16,094 --> 00:16:20,403 quite a lot of funding to put these things in so that people really don't have to 285 00:16:20,403 --> 00:16:22,086 think about it that much anymore. 286 00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:25,971 Yeah, and I think that is an area that's kind of especially I've noticed with a lot 287 00:16:25,971 --> 00:16:31,934 of the public traditional public fast chargers really struggled with putting in 288 00:16:31,934 --> 00:16:36,075 some of these fast chargers were always sometimes actually fairly far off the 289 00:16:36,075 --> 00:16:38,016 road, especially if you're looking at highway or interstate. 290 00:16:38,016 --> 00:16:39,297 You really have to do a detour. 291 00:16:39,297 --> 00:16:44,539 And it's really kind of good to see whether some of that's the traditional 292 00:16:44,579 --> 00:16:45,199 fast chargers. 293 00:16:45,199 --> 00:16:49,681 But it does seem like more just the actual traditional gas stations. 294 00:16:49,681 --> 00:16:50,261 And. 295 00:16:50,438 --> 00:16:53,367 large companies like the pilots and the flying J's of the world, they're actually 296 00:16:53,367 --> 00:16:55,372 making the investments themselves. 297 00:16:55,494 --> 00:16:59,375 And so I think once again, just the more visibility people see of electric vehicle 298 00:16:59,375 --> 00:17:04,017 chargers, the more they realize it's a actual possibility and the less of a 299 00:17:04,017 --> 00:17:05,458 change it is to what they are now. 300 00:17:05,458 --> 00:17:09,720 Because I think having to drive like 10 minutes off the highway to go find and 301 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,621 park in a Walmart definitely isn't the most ideal experience for a lot of people. 302 00:17:13,861 --> 00:17:18,023 And there being now enough EVs on the road and interest around in general that 303 00:17:18,023 --> 00:17:23,285 competition is forming and really pushing the traditional, I guess, fueling 304 00:17:23,285 --> 00:17:24,245 stations. 305 00:17:24,514 --> 00:17:28,697 and those others in the space to really either have to get their heck together or 306 00:17:28,697 --> 00:17:32,100 just actually figure out a way to stay competitive. 307 00:17:32,241 --> 00:17:35,744 But I guess that kind of brings up one of the things I know you wanted to talk about 308 00:17:35,744 --> 00:17:37,646 a little bit today was just around NEVI funding. 309 00:17:37,646 --> 00:17:40,628 So I'd really love to kind of get your thoughts on it. 310 00:17:40,628 --> 00:17:44,672 We've definitely had a few guests on the past that have shared kind of updates 311 00:17:44,672 --> 00:17:48,656 around it, but I would really love to hear what you've been seeing and what you want 312 00:17:48,656 --> 00:17:50,337 to discuss with us today, Steve. 313 00:17:50,584 --> 00:17:55,288 Yeah, so it's kind of interesting the Northeast has received. 314 00:17:55,288 --> 00:17:57,829 the most nevysites in the world, at least the ones that are energized. 315 00:17:57,829 --> 00:18:01,590 It's still in the single digits, but we have a few in New York that have received 316 00:18:01,590 --> 00:18:02,251 some funding. 317 00:18:02,251 --> 00:18:08,474 The first Tesla federally funded Tesla site went live last week, I think, in 318 00:18:08,474 --> 00:18:12,876 Maine, which is a visit I have to plan at some point as the weather improves. 319 00:18:13,316 --> 00:18:16,738 But so a lot of the, I think the first in the nation was Ohio, then we went to 320 00:18:16,738 --> 00:18:18,879 Pennsylvania, there's one out in Hawaii. 321 00:18:18,879 --> 00:18:20,279 So you're starting to see a little spread. 322 00:18:20,279 --> 00:18:22,400 Obviously these are very different locations. 323 00:18:23,592 --> 00:18:24,197 here. 324 00:18:25,282 --> 00:18:27,084 maybe the up in Maine. 325 00:18:27,146 --> 00:18:31,934 But, you know, the biggest piece is, I think, that these are starting to make... 326 00:18:32,384 --> 00:18:35,805 other networks, maybe outside of Tesla and Electrify America, which were kind of the 327 00:18:35,805 --> 00:18:40,467 first two to cross the country and make a strategic nationwide network for all of 328 00:18:40,467 --> 00:18:43,249 their limitations perhaps in Electrify America. 329 00:18:43,249 --> 00:18:47,210 The one thing they did do is build out a very large nationwide network across two 330 00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:49,171 or three routes fairly quickly. 331 00:18:49,412 --> 00:18:53,253 And what you're trying to see the NEVI funding doing initially is filling in 332 00:18:53,253 --> 00:18:58,856 those gaps and say, for every 50 miles of interstate along these alternative fuel 333 00:18:58,856 --> 00:19:01,437 corridors that have been designated in each state. 334 00:19:02,298 --> 00:19:06,200 so that they have exactly what we've just talked about, is locations within a mile 335 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:11,143 of the interstate exit and somewhere that even if one is busy, you can roll onto the 336 00:19:11,143 --> 00:19:14,846 next one and know that you're gonna be good to fill up your EV. 337 00:19:15,166 --> 00:19:18,548 So I think it's interesting that has kind of driven a lot of these states and you 338 00:19:18,548 --> 00:19:23,952 see the gaps in preparation now because states like New York and Ohio, which had a 339 00:19:23,952 --> 00:19:27,574 previous plan, they were already working on this at the state level, whether it was 340 00:19:27,574 --> 00:19:32,137 through power authorities or departments of transport, they've started to say, 341 00:19:32,198 --> 00:19:34,219 got this map, existing map, that we wanted to fill. 342 00:19:34,219 --> 00:19:37,341 Now we've got federal funds coming in to help us and they can start to drop the 343 00:19:37,341 --> 00:19:40,824 pins in places that they really need to fill in those gaps. 344 00:19:40,824 --> 00:19:44,327 Other states are just scrambling and on the back foot to be like, I don't know 345 00:19:44,327 --> 00:19:48,130 where to put these things, we've never been through the process of sighting, you 346 00:19:48,130 --> 00:19:52,973 know, looking at a map, figuring out where the power is, trying to contact the right 347 00:19:52,973 --> 00:19:55,936 site hosts, all of this stuff that goes into the long, long... 348 00:19:55,936 --> 00:19:58,537 process of getting a charger in the ground, which I don't think people 349 00:19:58,537 --> 00:20:04,379 appreciate can be 18 to 24 months is quite reasonable for that from an initial 350 00:20:04,379 --> 00:20:06,881 conception to actually energizing a site. 351 00:20:06,881 --> 00:20:11,043 So there's a lot of work that goes into it and I think the states that are leading 352 00:20:11,043 --> 00:20:13,964 that, you can see that they've had some kind of planning ahead of time. 353 00:20:13,964 --> 00:20:19,587 But the end result is going to be the country, if the states get their plans in 354 00:20:19,587 --> 00:20:25,589 place, covered with at least four chargers of 150 kilowatts or more and having that 355 00:20:25,589 --> 00:20:25,830 capability. 356 00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:30,121 ability to just roll off the site, roll off the end state, keep going once you've 357 00:20:30,121 --> 00:20:32,666 done your whatever you do on a rest stop. 358 00:20:34,138 --> 00:20:39,082 Yeah, I think it's great to finally see some of those funds turn from just kind of 359 00:20:39,082 --> 00:20:43,745 projects and announcements to actually things people can go and use and kind of 360 00:20:43,745 --> 00:20:45,407 hope to see that accelerate further. 361 00:20:45,407 --> 00:20:49,050 I know some of the states have kind of been slow to adopt it and some of that 362 00:20:49,050 --> 00:20:52,713 also has just been due to all sorts of changes along the way. 363 00:20:52,713 --> 00:20:57,597 Not just obviously part of that is announcements by automakers kind of moving 364 00:20:57,597 --> 00:21:00,059 towards the North American charging standard. 365 00:21:00,059 --> 00:21:03,741 But it also just seemed like there was a lot of questions even around how to. 366 00:21:04,570 --> 00:21:08,851 define and read and what some of these requirements actually stood for. 367 00:21:08,851 --> 00:21:11,993 I know a big one was the variance in voltage. 368 00:21:12,333 --> 00:21:15,774 And now we're trying to, we're finally seeing a lot of this alignment happen. 369 00:21:15,774 --> 00:21:19,576 And now that these projects are on the ground, I'm hoping that for those states 370 00:21:19,576 --> 00:21:23,718 who have kind of been laggards or just kind of waiting to have them, the more 371 00:21:23,718 --> 00:21:27,479 clarity that now that they're seeing that the funds are being made, this isn't being 372 00:21:27,479 --> 00:21:31,081 kind of on hold, it'll be kind of what gets the momentum for these other states 373 00:21:31,081 --> 00:21:33,481 to get their projects online as well. 374 00:21:33,698 --> 00:21:34,920 Yeah, there's quite a few. 375 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:39,146 I know Wyoming is one and there's a couple other states where more charging 376 00:21:39,146 --> 00:21:42,492 infrastructure on the interstate would be awesome. 377 00:21:42,492 --> 00:21:46,397 They have been lagging a little bit with that implementation. 378 00:21:46,788 --> 00:21:49,788 Yeah, there's certainly some of those states that really could have benefited 379 00:21:49,788 --> 00:21:50,608 from it. 380 00:21:50,609 --> 00:21:53,489 It's not, you know, it seems to be a political divide thing sometimes, but 381 00:21:53,489 --> 00:21:56,970 you've certainly got, you know, your Ohio's and Texas seem to be trying to 382 00:21:56,970 --> 00:21:58,110 forge ahead. 383 00:21:58,671 --> 00:22:02,712 And about half the states, pretty close to half of the states now have, you know, 384 00:22:02,712 --> 00:22:05,853 announced some kind of funding and they've, usually when they announce the 385 00:22:05,853 --> 00:22:09,314 first round of awards, that means sites, you know, they actually identify where the 386 00:22:09,314 --> 00:22:10,614 sites are going to be. 387 00:22:10,914 --> 00:22:14,435 So that is pretty, you know, then you're just into the construction phase, which 388 00:22:14,435 --> 00:22:16,435 is, you know, depending on the location. 389 00:22:17,328 --> 00:22:22,110 It could be 50, 60 days or on the upper end, closer to three months. 390 00:22:22,110 --> 00:22:23,811 But it's fairly quick turnaround. 391 00:22:23,811 --> 00:22:25,972 That's why you'll start to see a bunch of these rolling in. 392 00:22:25,972 --> 00:22:32,375 The initial chikrin has been that it's been two years or two plus years since the 393 00:22:32,375 --> 00:22:35,536 legislation was announced and they really, how does it take this long? 394 00:22:35,536 --> 00:22:39,098 Well, probably three quarters of that was just the plans, getting the plans in 395 00:22:39,098 --> 00:22:39,878 place. 396 00:22:39,898 --> 00:22:41,459 So you see the early States starting to move. 397 00:22:41,459 --> 00:22:45,400 And as you said, I think there's going to be a little bit of neighborly rivalry of 398 00:22:45,901 --> 00:22:47,101 my next door neighbor. 399 00:22:47,322 --> 00:22:51,243 once CVs hit that kind of tipping point at the mainstream, people will be saying, you 400 00:22:51,243 --> 00:22:55,864 know, why is that state so good, you know, well covered and why can't I drive, you 401 00:22:55,864 --> 00:23:01,966 know, down the road to my local kind of family in West Virginia or Wyoming or any 402 00:23:01,966 --> 00:23:06,087 of these places that have kind of left things a little bit late. 403 00:23:06,878 --> 00:23:10,862 Yeah, it's also been really interesting looking at, you talk about some of the 404 00:23:10,862 --> 00:23:16,508 delays, and I think for the Nevi funds and some of the IRA funds, a large part of 405 00:23:16,508 --> 00:23:22,254 that was the actual kind of definition of getting that clarity around what these 406 00:23:22,254 --> 00:23:23,235 will be. 407 00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:27,239 But I think one of the common things I hear from people who are a little confused 408 00:23:27,239 --> 00:23:29,881 as to like announcements around charging and. 409 00:23:30,094 --> 00:23:34,115 even when it's not, and it's why it takes so long, is just the implementation and 410 00:23:34,115 --> 00:23:36,516 what needs to be done from the utility side. 411 00:23:36,737 --> 00:23:42,159 I think even the other day, Tesla's kind of been famous for that they've now been 412 00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:45,761 building their charging sites almost essentially pre-fab, and then they just 413 00:23:45,761 --> 00:23:49,082 almost just drop ship them and it's ready to go, and they just said they set a new 414 00:23:49,082 --> 00:23:50,643 record with doing that in four days. 415 00:23:50,643 --> 00:23:54,045 And so I think a lot of people see that four day, like, oh my God, this is great. 416 00:23:54,045 --> 00:23:57,326 This is gonna make it so these can be done all the time. 417 00:23:57,446 --> 00:23:59,948 I might be able to go one place, and then next week 418 00:23:59,948 --> 00:24:02,669 the actual site live and is that possible? 419 00:24:02,669 --> 00:24:08,332 Sure, but I think the biggest challenge that's been facing getting more in the 420 00:24:08,332 --> 00:24:12,074 ground outside of even that funding, that's in some ways it slowed a couple 421 00:24:12,074 --> 00:24:17,818 things down but now we're kind of just seeing that more cohesive building of it 422 00:24:17,818 --> 00:24:22,740 has really been around the permitting and getting the work from the utility and 423 00:24:22,740 --> 00:24:24,741 trying to get that. 424 00:24:25,294 --> 00:24:29,954 moving faster because that alone to itself can sometimes mean a site takes up to a 425 00:24:29,954 --> 00:24:35,716 year to get approved or getting the new transformers, other site improvements that 426 00:24:35,716 --> 00:24:40,176 need to be done actually by the utility before the charge point provider even 427 00:24:40,176 --> 00:24:41,857 shows up and puts something in the ground. 428 00:24:41,857 --> 00:24:46,938 So I'm curious if there's any thoughts you have around that or if you've as an EV 429 00:24:46,938 --> 00:24:51,579 educator worked with any utilities to kind of help them highlight ways that they 430 00:24:51,579 --> 00:24:52,599 could be doing 431 00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:57,917 seeing if there's ways they can kind of speed up that. 432 00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:02,842 Yeah, I haven't worked with anyone specifically on the process itself, but 433 00:25:02,842 --> 00:25:07,504 certainly the communicating out where they're going and how these sites are 434 00:25:07,504 --> 00:25:09,645 going in is a big piece of it. 435 00:25:09,645 --> 00:25:12,806 So I was down in the New York International Auto Show last week with the 436 00:25:12,806 --> 00:25:16,628 New York Power Authority, sorry, week before now, with the New York Power 437 00:25:16,628 --> 00:25:17,408 Authority. 438 00:25:17,408 --> 00:25:21,550 And that was really insightful to hear what their challenges have been, because 439 00:25:21,550 --> 00:25:23,311 they've been through it, as I say. 440 00:25:23,311 --> 00:25:27,033 They were doing this two or three years before the NEDD funding was really there 441 00:25:27,033 --> 00:25:27,753 because 442 00:25:28,454 --> 00:25:32,275 this stuff out and we're literally the day after the eclipse here. 443 00:25:32,495 --> 00:25:35,937 And a lot of those sites that they had the foresight to put in that weren't along 444 00:25:35,937 --> 00:25:40,119 these major east-west routes which is typically commonly what you've seen in 445 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,941 other states, they've built out into these more remote areas like the Adirondacks 446 00:25:44,941 --> 00:25:49,343 which go up to the New York and Canada border down in the southern tier of the 447 00:25:49,343 --> 00:25:52,244 state which is kind of mid-state I guess. 448 00:25:52,485 --> 00:25:56,647 So a lot of these places that people want to access in an EV in a relatively high 449 00:25:56,647 --> 00:25:57,887 adoption state, 450 00:25:58,780 --> 00:26:04,142 those authorities knowing that they needed to put that in was a big piece of it. 451 00:26:04,142 --> 00:26:07,944 Then you obviously have to communicate out where these things are, how people can use 452 00:26:07,944 --> 00:26:08,384 it. 453 00:26:08,384 --> 00:26:13,507 So the piece of the auto show was a very large booth, you know, by the EV test 454 00:26:13,507 --> 00:26:14,907 track, fittingly. 455 00:26:15,327 --> 00:26:19,489 So they could hear, you know, EVs, they could go and have a really, you know, 456 00:26:19,489 --> 00:26:23,571 exciting test drive, get all the kind of bums in seats parts of the EV adoption 457 00:26:23,651 --> 00:26:27,113 piece kind of checked off, and then come over to this booth and see right on a 458 00:26:27,113 --> 00:26:28,533 practical level 459 00:26:28,534 --> 00:26:30,175 how do I charge the thing? 460 00:26:30,175 --> 00:26:31,135 Yeah, I know it's fun. 461 00:26:31,135 --> 00:26:32,336 Yeah, I know I like the vehicle. 462 00:26:32,336 --> 00:26:35,338 But to your point, where is the infrastructure? 463 00:26:35,338 --> 00:26:37,379 Is it looking good near my house? 464 00:26:37,379 --> 00:26:39,341 Is it looking good 200 miles from my house? 465 00:26:39,341 --> 00:26:45,605 So for New York State specifically, stuff like the Chargeway Beacon that they use, 466 00:26:45,605 --> 00:26:48,927 which is an app that you can have on your phone, but it's like a very big kind of 467 00:26:48,927 --> 00:26:50,768 kiosk version of that app. 468 00:26:50,768 --> 00:26:55,872 So people can literally stand by the map and then move around with an 469 00:26:58,594 --> 00:27:02,137 in their state and beyond, plan road trips, that kind of thing. 470 00:27:02,137 --> 00:27:05,740 So getting those kind of marketing assets out there is really, really valuable 471 00:27:05,740 --> 00:27:08,462 because that's much more of an interactive piece, right? 472 00:27:08,462 --> 00:27:12,485 So someone can tell you the vehicle has 300 miles and that's great, but then when 473 00:27:12,485 --> 00:27:16,749 you look at a road trip planner and see, right, this is what that road trip of 500, 474 00:27:16,749 --> 00:27:21,733 600 miles looks like, that's quite a big educational piece of getting people 475 00:27:21,733 --> 00:27:24,235 confident that they can make this work for them. 476 00:27:24,838 --> 00:27:25,418 Yeah, definitely. 477 00:27:25,418 --> 00:27:28,860 And that's great to hear that Chargeway had one of their beacons there. 478 00:27:28,860 --> 00:27:33,163 We've actually had Matt on the show before a couple of times and definitely big fans 479 00:27:33,163 --> 00:27:37,385 of what they're doing, trying to help around that education, make the charging a 480 00:27:37,385 --> 00:27:38,966 lot simpler for people. 481 00:27:39,226 --> 00:27:44,509 I'm curious, being at the Yacht-O-Show, were there any things that you, I guess 482 00:27:44,509 --> 00:27:49,172 one, were there any EVs or other new cars that you saw that you liked? 483 00:27:49,172 --> 00:27:51,233 I'm curious if there was any other... 484 00:27:52,670 --> 00:27:56,313 just kind of interesting trends you were seeing in general since you had both 485 00:27:56,393 --> 00:28:00,517 combustion, electric vehicles, I guess also hybrids there as well. 486 00:28:00,844 --> 00:28:04,825 Yeah, hybridization is a big piece for some of them. 487 00:28:04,825 --> 00:28:08,487 Obviously Toyota will always lead that kind of side of things. 488 00:28:08,487 --> 00:28:11,609 And they always have a massive, massive booth. 489 00:28:11,609 --> 00:28:15,170 A lot of these things was Electrify Expo in New York a couple of years ago. 490 00:28:15,170 --> 00:28:17,071 They had pretty large showing. 491 00:28:17,071 --> 00:28:21,193 But just in general, I kind of go dip in and out of auto shows. 492 00:28:21,193 --> 00:28:25,735 But I'm certainly seeing a lot more EVs on the floor. 493 00:28:25,735 --> 00:28:30,557 I think it was somewhere between 40 and 50 electric vehicles that were on show. 494 00:28:30,838 --> 00:28:33,145 they would have been maybe five to ten. 495 00:28:33,970 --> 00:28:35,976 The big reveals were actually 496 00:28:36,664 --> 00:28:41,306 you know, for most of the brands seem to be either plug-in hybrids or, you know, a 497 00:28:41,306 --> 00:28:45,007 new version of something that they had previously produced, which was combustion. 498 00:28:45,007 --> 00:28:51,851 So maybe the big reveals weren't electric this year, but we had Polestar 4 was 499 00:28:51,851 --> 00:28:54,952 unveiled there and they, or at least they showed the North American version, the 500 00:28:54,952 --> 00:28:55,472 pricing. 501 00:28:55,472 --> 00:29:00,975 So Polestar CEO Thomas Inglath was, you know, there on site to kind of push EVs. 502 00:29:00,975 --> 00:29:05,177 And obviously Polestar as an EV only brand is going to, you know, take a lot of 503 00:29:05,237 --> 00:29:07,058 attention for electric vehicles. 504 00:29:07,701 --> 00:29:11,492 Kia EV9 won a couple of awards, not just the World Electric Car of the Year, but 505 00:29:11,492 --> 00:29:13,497 also the World Car of the Year. 506 00:29:14,148 --> 00:29:18,249 Hyundai IONIQ 5N won the performance car of the year, which I don't know, put a few 507 00:29:18,249 --> 00:29:22,291 noses out of joint I think for people who want to hear a roar of an engine when 508 00:29:22,291 --> 00:29:23,352 they're performance vehicles. 509 00:29:23,352 --> 00:29:28,894 But just generally every automaker, even GM, which in the past has disappointed me 510 00:29:28,894 --> 00:29:32,896 because they kind of, you know, they had a lot of all GM promises, but only really 511 00:29:32,896 --> 00:29:35,658 the next gen vehicles weren't really on display, weren't delivered. 512 00:29:35,658 --> 00:29:39,559 We had the Silverado EV, Blazer EV, Equinox EV. 513 00:29:39,559 --> 00:29:42,081 So I start to get to a point where I can't remember all the models. 514 00:29:42,081 --> 00:29:44,062 That's a good sign that the automakers are doing a good job. 515 00:29:44,062 --> 00:29:44,885 Good job. 516 00:29:46,458 --> 00:29:51,099 And then with that, I mean, there are obviously a lot of people there. 517 00:29:51,099 --> 00:29:56,081 I'm kind of just curious what, the big thing has always been Tom bad. 518 00:29:56,081 --> 00:29:58,943 And I have found it effective, just getting to know butts in seats and people 519 00:29:58,943 --> 00:29:59,843 driving cars. 520 00:29:59,843 --> 00:30:02,704 I'm just curious if there were any other things that you've seen that's really 521 00:30:02,704 --> 00:30:10,007 effective to get people kind of over that initial hump or kind of confusion around 522 00:30:10,007 --> 00:30:15,409 EV and just what you found as far as maybe just the tone and. 523 00:30:16,714 --> 00:30:18,234 thoughts from people at auto. 524 00:30:18,234 --> 00:30:22,497 I just feel like auto shows, they've been struggling honestly for a long time and 525 00:30:22,497 --> 00:30:24,418 especially since COVID. 526 00:30:25,679 --> 00:30:29,541 And so I'm just kind of curious if you saw a lot of just normal people going there to 527 00:30:29,541 --> 00:30:35,885 check out cars in general or was it more of a press announcements with a personal 528 00:30:35,885 --> 00:30:38,347 connection, a part to it. 529 00:30:38,347 --> 00:30:42,249 I'm just kind of curious to learn a bit more about the tone and anything that 530 00:30:42,249 --> 00:30:42,825 stood out to you. 531 00:30:42,825 --> 00:30:46,689 because I went on the media day, so I really only saw the people. 532 00:30:46,689 --> 00:30:50,133 They were doing their unveils, you know, so it was much more of a kind of big 533 00:30:50,133 --> 00:30:52,956 splash trying to make headlines, that kind of thing. 534 00:30:52,956 --> 00:30:54,198 So you got some of the flavor. 535 00:30:54,198 --> 00:30:56,120 But most of these people are inside baseball. 536 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,865 They know, you know, they're either pro-EV, maybe not so much for EV, but 537 00:31:00,865 --> 00:31:02,927 whatever they were, they knew their stuff. 538 00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:06,921 Day to day, I think, I mean you're right on auto shows in general, I think there's 539 00:31:06,921 --> 00:31:09,622 a lot less buzz around them than there used to be. 540 00:31:09,622 --> 00:31:12,824 There still were some decent announcements, but you know, it's not what 541 00:31:12,824 --> 00:31:16,045 it was in terms of this is where everything will happen. 542 00:31:16,426 --> 00:31:19,107 I think you're seeing, like for example, you know, Tesla wasn't there, so 543 00:31:19,107 --> 00:31:22,789 immediately that's, you know, more than half of the EV market in the United States 544 00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:23,689 not covered. 545 00:31:23,689 --> 00:31:26,670 Although I think they did then a couple of days later, they must have known that 546 00:31:26,670 --> 00:31:30,372 there was a crowd in town because they were in town with a cyber truck dragging 547 00:31:30,372 --> 00:31:33,353 around a Tesla Model Y in a 548 00:31:33,374 --> 00:31:37,738 case around Manhattan so there's definitely some activity around that. 549 00:31:38,239 --> 00:31:42,184 Rivianne actually down in their showroom down there in the meatpacking district had 550 00:31:42,184 --> 00:31:43,726 the R2 on display. 551 00:31:43,726 --> 00:31:44,927 I don't know if the R3 was there. 552 00:31:44,927 --> 00:31:48,432 I didn't get a chance to go down but so you I think you're seeing around when 553 00:31:48,432 --> 00:31:52,015 there are these big events and they know people are in town they will 554 00:31:52,452 --> 00:31:57,034 put events around it, but then not the new automakers, the new EV only automakers, 555 00:31:57,034 --> 00:32:00,935 other than Polestar, were trying to find other ways to do these big reveals rather 556 00:32:00,935 --> 00:32:02,976 than the traditional auto show. 557 00:32:03,197 --> 00:32:06,038 And as far as people go, I think, it's still a nice family event. 558 00:32:06,038 --> 00:32:10,200 I think if you can go out and spend an hour or two looking at the cool cars, 559 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:10,720 that's great. 560 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,502 But I think for pure EV adoption, you're probably looking at more of these, like 561 00:32:14,502 --> 00:32:17,783 the month we're in right now is Drive Electric Earth Month, right? 562 00:32:17,783 --> 00:32:21,585 Stuff like that, the kind of grassroots level, people being able to go to these 563 00:32:21,585 --> 00:32:22,366 events 564 00:32:22,366 --> 00:32:26,068 have an actual test drive, because even the test drives weren't really, there were 565 00:32:26,068 --> 00:32:29,570 ride-alongs at the auto show rather than actual test drives. 566 00:32:29,570 --> 00:32:34,614 So stuff like Electrify Expo, which is in a bunch of different cities this year, 567 00:32:34,614 --> 00:32:37,736 those have actual test drives and slightly bigger tracks. 568 00:32:37,736 --> 00:32:41,999 And if you go to these events that are, you know, just EV owners taking their 569 00:32:41,999 --> 00:32:44,901 vehicles because they're early adopters and they kind of, you know, want to show 570 00:32:44,901 --> 00:32:49,203 them off, you get a lot more of these kind of real world stories, I think, so 571 00:32:49,203 --> 00:32:52,306 they'll, and they'll tell you, you know, most EV owners aren't shy about saying, 572 00:32:52,306 --> 00:32:54,887 this journey was a nightmare, this was perfect. 573 00:32:54,887 --> 00:32:57,729 These are the ones that, this is where it's gonna have a problem. 574 00:32:57,729 --> 00:32:58,790 Pretty much, yeah. 575 00:32:58,790 --> 00:33:03,053 And I think that's kind of that EV educator piece again, right? 576 00:33:03,053 --> 00:33:08,076 It's not really, this isn't a particularly old industry if you take it as the modern 577 00:33:08,076 --> 00:33:12,159 kind of mile marker, starting with the Nissan Leaf and then the Tesla Model S. 578 00:33:12,159 --> 00:33:16,081 And for five years, we really didn't have that much activity. 579 00:33:16,081 --> 00:33:22,246 I didn't come into it until that bolt kind of 2016, 2017 point, so it's not. 580 00:33:22,246 --> 00:33:24,267 very long in the toothless industry. 581 00:33:24,267 --> 00:33:28,250 There's a lot of stuff to learn still, and it's all changing every month. 582 00:33:28,250 --> 00:33:32,673 There's something new happening in charging, in the models, in the technology 583 00:33:32,673 --> 00:33:33,973 most months. 584 00:33:33,994 --> 00:33:37,476 So you really just have to stay on top of it and then pass that knowledge on to 585 00:33:37,476 --> 00:33:41,839 people who are coming into it just from a complete blank slate, I think. 586 00:33:43,066 --> 00:33:48,830 Yeah, I think that's some great points about just it seems to be most effective 587 00:33:48,830 --> 00:33:51,891 when it is more of a grassroots thing than by current owners. 588 00:33:51,892 --> 00:33:54,894 I do want to take one step back though, because you mentioned something that kind 589 00:33:54,894 --> 00:33:59,397 of was interesting around like how Tesla and Rivian more of the I mean, I don't 590 00:33:59,397 --> 00:34:02,920 think you really call Tesla startup anymore, but they've always had definitely 591 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:07,103 count at least a startup mentality in their business approach. 592 00:34:07,103 --> 00:34:11,245 And so I was just curious when you see. 593 00:34:13,078 --> 00:34:16,060 I think it kind of goes back to what I was asking earlier about just like the current 594 00:34:16,060 --> 00:34:20,384 state of honor shows and it's very interesting to see that in Rivian doing 595 00:34:20,384 --> 00:34:24,227 their own things, taking advantage of some of the buzz of being in town and people 596 00:34:24,227 --> 00:34:27,709 there, but also just kind of like, yeah, we're going to do our own thing instead of 597 00:34:27,709 --> 00:34:31,152 having to pay for it. 598 00:34:31,152 --> 00:34:34,615 Is that, I'm just kind of curious of your thoughts of that strategy because 599 00:34:34,615 --> 00:34:35,816 obviously we're talking about it. 600 00:34:35,816 --> 00:34:37,376 It is creating buzz. 601 00:34:38,442 --> 00:34:43,686 And I had seen some headlines, I had been kind of busy, so I hadn't really fully 602 00:34:43,686 --> 00:34:48,570 appreciated that those were all both around the time of the New York Auto Show. 603 00:34:48,691 --> 00:34:55,497 I'm just kind of curious on your thoughts if those are the ways that maybe more 604 00:34:55,577 --> 00:34:59,541 traditional auto companies need to start thinking more to really be positioning 605 00:34:59,541 --> 00:35:03,845 EVs, to kind of stand out and do things that are a bit different to get that 606 00:35:03,845 --> 00:35:04,765 interest. 607 00:35:05,432 --> 00:35:06,092 I think so. 608 00:35:06,092 --> 00:35:10,636 I mean, it's, you know, from a broader marketing perspective, you know, you 609 00:35:10,636 --> 00:35:17,261 either put your marketing kind of efforts into somebody else's hands with an auto 610 00:35:17,261 --> 00:35:17,821 show to an extent. 611 00:35:17,821 --> 00:35:20,383 I mean, obviously you have the design and the creative, but you're also putting 612 00:35:20,383 --> 00:35:22,665 yourself into a very loud environment. 613 00:35:22,665 --> 00:35:25,667 So yes, you can probably come out and maybe that's part of the awards. 614 00:35:25,667 --> 00:35:29,350 You know, I mean, I don't know how many, how much people really put stock in these 615 00:35:29,350 --> 00:35:31,708 awards, but they certainly, you know, all the band. 616 00:35:31,708 --> 00:35:36,530 Manufacturers will make big noise about these things, but it's only one piece of 617 00:35:36,530 --> 00:35:41,392 maybe four five six other automakers with big announcements So you're competing for 618 00:35:41,392 --> 00:35:45,494 that attention and there's only so much writing and so many articles that people 619 00:35:45,494 --> 00:35:46,354 can put out, right? 620 00:35:46,354 --> 00:35:51,156 So Rivian having a presence in New York for that was smart, but then they did the 621 00:35:51,156 --> 00:35:56,959 big reveal for the R2 and the R3 I think it was probably three or four weeks before 622 00:35:56,959 --> 00:35:57,839 and that 623 00:35:59,428 --> 00:35:59,956 Yeah. 624 00:35:59,956 --> 00:36:03,958 bubble, we hear all of this stuff anyway, it's never gonna pass us by, but they 625 00:36:03,958 --> 00:36:07,480 certainly, you know, for the size of the company and how much presence they, you 626 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,182 know, don't have a massive presence in the US just yet, but that took a lot of 627 00:36:11,182 --> 00:36:17,084 attention, you know, it's the R2 being in a relatively affordable, you know, family 628 00:36:17,084 --> 00:36:21,467 SUV and not being launched at one of the biggest auto shows in the country at the 629 00:36:21,467 --> 00:36:24,208 time of its launch, you know, is notable. 630 00:36:24,208 --> 00:36:27,786 And I think they get to define that then, they get to own that experience, 631 00:36:27,786 --> 00:36:28,450 It's true. 632 00:36:28,450 --> 00:36:33,213 in Laguna Beach, they're trying to push this kind of adventure or kind of 633 00:36:33,213 --> 00:36:37,035 outdoorsy family adventure brand vibe. 634 00:36:37,216 --> 00:36:38,256 And you can still do that. 635 00:36:38,256 --> 00:36:42,279 Super is a good kind of contrast because they have that and they'd always have a 636 00:36:42,279 --> 00:36:43,040 really good booth. 637 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,582 It's an experience and they define that. 638 00:36:47,323 --> 00:36:51,846 But they're only a piece of the wider show in that, whereas Rivian completely owned 639 00:36:51,846 --> 00:36:53,867 the launch of that. 640 00:36:53,867 --> 00:36:57,950 And I think you go back and see an automaker, traditional automaker doing 641 00:36:57,950 --> 00:36:59,634 The ID Buzz is a good example, right? 642 00:36:59,634 --> 00:37:06,750 They did the kind of Surfside California thing to kind of launch the ID Buzz. 643 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,722 you know, give it that brand value for the surfing kind of beach side atmosphere. 644 00:37:11,722 --> 00:37:15,443 And you wouldn't get that as an auto show, or if you did, it would be very kind of 645 00:37:15,443 --> 00:37:16,984 fake and artificial. 646 00:37:16,984 --> 00:37:21,106 So I think that real world define it, choose your timing, you know, do it on 647 00:37:21,106 --> 00:37:25,808 your terms is going to be valuable for, and then EV is a chance to do that. 648 00:37:25,808 --> 00:37:29,470 You know, it's a chance to reinvent how you do the vehicle, certainly, but also 649 00:37:29,470 --> 00:37:32,471 how you market, how you sell to people. 650 00:37:32,631 --> 00:37:36,473 So I think it's an interesting way to kind of change things up and maybe 651 00:37:37,435 --> 00:37:40,885 things that worked in the past but are kind of going by the wayside now. 652 00:37:42,086 --> 00:37:42,746 Yeah, definitely. 653 00:37:42,746 --> 00:37:48,248 And I think it's interesting when you using the example of Rivian, just looking 654 00:37:48,248 --> 00:37:54,150 at the I think it's interesting everything you just said, but specifically when you 655 00:37:54,150 --> 00:38:02,233 reference Subaru, because I think so much of the buzz in the comment section after 656 00:38:02,233 --> 00:38:02,746 the 657 00:38:02,746 --> 00:38:05,787 Rivian announces like, oh, this is going to kill Tesla or this is all this is going 658 00:38:05,787 --> 00:38:07,988 to sell millions and millions of copies, which who knows? 659 00:38:07,988 --> 00:38:10,149 It might it looks like actually a pretty awesome car. 660 00:38:10,149 --> 00:38:13,210 I know a couple of people who already put down reservations for him. 661 00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:19,373 But I think in practice, once you actually get into reality and out of the comment 662 00:38:19,373 --> 00:38:25,955 section online, I think what you said about server is really interesting and 663 00:38:25,955 --> 00:38:27,016 pretty accurate. 664 00:38:27,016 --> 00:38:30,597 As someone who's owned a couple of servers and know plenty of people that still do 665 00:38:30,597 --> 00:38:31,237 like. 666 00:38:31,754 --> 00:38:36,537 I know some people who went to Tesla, but in a lot of ways it's a different kind of 667 00:38:37,958 --> 00:38:41,321 psychographic if you wanna look at it as for like the buyer and stuff. 668 00:38:41,321 --> 00:38:47,626 And there really hasn't been as great of a focus or niche for that kind of lifestyle 669 00:38:47,626 --> 00:38:50,287 or building those products, especially in that price point. 670 00:38:50,808 --> 00:38:56,653 And so, while I think a lot of media narrative and the comment section is 671 00:38:56,653 --> 00:38:58,253 always talking about, oh, this is gonna. 672 00:38:58,442 --> 00:39:01,402 It's either Rivian versus Tesla, which I don't think it is at all. 673 00:39:01,402 --> 00:39:06,044 To me it's more like if you're a legacy automaker, especially like a Subaru who 674 00:39:06,044 --> 00:39:11,085 has had a niche, but overall is actually pretty small volume in the US, but it's 675 00:39:11,085 --> 00:39:13,906 one of their larger markets still as an automaker. 676 00:39:14,106 --> 00:39:17,627 That's really the concern is to see a brand like Rivian that's getting those 677 00:39:17,627 --> 00:39:21,928 people that have been kind of your tried and true so excited about EVs and so 678 00:39:21,928 --> 00:39:27,049 excited about a new product that really is focused on them that. 679 00:39:27,154 --> 00:39:30,294 I it's just been interesting to see that with the other. 680 00:39:31,435 --> 00:39:35,916 You can kind of say that with Tesla when they first got into the space around the 681 00:39:35,916 --> 00:39:40,817 traditional premium European automakers. 682 00:39:41,018 --> 00:39:44,418 And now they've even kind of come down a little bit. 683 00:39:44,439 --> 00:39:47,079 Well, I would still say it's a premium car in a lot of ways. 684 00:39:47,199 --> 00:39:50,260 Their price point and what they offer kind of makes them competitive with like a 685 00:39:50,260 --> 00:39:53,121 Honda and Toyota and their volumes and as well. 686 00:39:53,121 --> 00:39:55,181 And so it's. 687 00:39:55,330 --> 00:40:01,193 I'm curious if there's anything that you've been seeing that the way that the 688 00:40:01,193 --> 00:40:09,798 new EV startups or startup mentality has been pushing automakers and why you don't 689 00:40:09,798 --> 00:40:15,501 think that there has been more concern or outward expression by like the legacy 690 00:40:15,501 --> 00:40:20,663 automakers, especially if you're the CEO of Subaru, what are you doing after the R2 691 00:40:20,663 --> 00:40:22,064 was just announced? 692 00:40:25,446 --> 00:40:30,865 long term, a pretty serious long term risk to them as a company. 693 00:40:31,512 --> 00:40:35,238 Yeah, it's interesting, you know, long term versus short term, right? 694 00:40:35,238 --> 00:40:37,882 Because I think, you know, you're still going to sell a lot more. 695 00:40:38,128 --> 00:40:43,030 Toyota's than you are Rivian's or Subaru's even than you are Rivian's but that brand 696 00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:46,852 loyalty only goes so far I think you do see it translate a little bit That's why 697 00:40:46,852 --> 00:40:52,074 stuff like the VZ4X from Toyota and the Subaru Salterra will sell even though 698 00:40:52,074 --> 00:40:56,116 they're not particularly great EV from a nerd kind of point of view don't charge 699 00:40:56,116 --> 00:41:00,558 fast don't really do anything that special There's a brand loyalty that will extend a 700 00:41:00,558 --> 00:41:04,640 little bit, but you're right long term I mean these are you know Rivian is a brand 701 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,561 that is forging it It's really well done 702 00:41:08,062 --> 00:41:12,062 everything they put together is well crafted as an outdoors package. 703 00:41:12,062 --> 00:41:15,943 So it's not just the R2 that they launch, it's a tent. 704 00:41:16,223 --> 00:41:18,824 Whether it comes to fruition or not is another thing because everybody wanted 705 00:41:18,824 --> 00:41:22,505 their camp kitchen for the R1-2 but that doesn't seem to be coming. 706 00:41:22,505 --> 00:41:27,606 But they still have accessories, they are kind of geared to putting together an 707 00:41:27,606 --> 00:41:28,906 ecosystem. 708 00:41:29,686 --> 00:41:35,347 So I think the other side of it that is maybe pushing traditional automakers is 709 00:41:35,347 --> 00:41:36,327 software. 710 00:41:36,624 --> 00:41:40,445 and leading with that kind of piece of, you know, the car will do a lot of the 711 00:41:40,445 --> 00:41:44,806 work for you or the infotainment and the software regularly updating itself, having 712 00:41:44,806 --> 00:41:49,887 a vehicle in the driveway that is not going old by the model year, you know, 713 00:41:49,887 --> 00:41:51,828 it's getting updated as you go. 714 00:41:51,828 --> 00:41:53,948 I think you see a little bit of that with Ford. 715 00:41:53,968 --> 00:41:59,010 They've probably been the most prominent US automaker at least that has kind of 716 00:41:59,010 --> 00:42:00,630 started to drop a lot of updates. 717 00:42:00,630 --> 00:42:03,511 You know, there's a lot of power-ups that come through and they've led obviously 718 00:42:03,511 --> 00:42:04,291 with the... 719 00:42:05,404 --> 00:42:08,685 transition to an ACS with the adapter. 720 00:42:08,865 --> 00:42:10,006 Part of that is software as well. 721 00:42:10,006 --> 00:42:11,466 There's a lot going on behind the scenes. 722 00:42:11,466 --> 00:42:15,968 People couldn't get that vehicle charging on, you know, Tesla superchargers, even if 723 00:42:15,968 --> 00:42:18,009 they had the adapter without that software update. 724 00:42:18,009 --> 00:42:19,930 So you have to have that system in place. 725 00:42:19,930 --> 00:42:24,272 So it's not trivial, you know, Tesla has been building this for years and has just 726 00:42:24,272 --> 00:42:27,034 led with it as a software first kind of company. 727 00:42:27,034 --> 00:42:31,876 Rivian is taking that to a similar kind of level for the outdoor stuff and tweaking 728 00:42:31,876 --> 00:42:35,017 your vehicle for, you know, being able to adjust ride height, 729 00:42:35,818 --> 00:42:40,641 for towing all these kinds of things that maybe manual before, you're starting to 730 00:42:40,641 --> 00:42:44,984 see them come as not just software that comes with the vehicle, but software 731 00:42:44,984 --> 00:42:46,465 updates over the air. 732 00:42:46,465 --> 00:42:49,747 And I think that's challenging a lot of the traditional automakers, certainly 733 00:42:49,747 --> 00:42:52,049 iDrive and IONIQ 5, and it's not. 734 00:42:52,049 --> 00:42:53,109 It's night and day difference. 735 00:42:53,109 --> 00:42:57,893 I do get over the air updates, which was a step up on my Bolt TV, but they are once 736 00:42:57,893 --> 00:43:02,756 every half a year, I think, and usually it's something like the icons change and I 737 00:43:02,756 --> 00:43:05,378 get a new map interface or something, 738 00:43:05,378 --> 00:43:11,941 other manufacturers or EV startups or EV first companies are dropping these things 739 00:43:11,941 --> 00:43:16,203 with all kinds of new features and things that actually affect your ownership 740 00:43:16,203 --> 00:43:17,223 experience. 741 00:43:17,694 --> 00:43:22,958 Yeah, I think especially around the conversation with like long-term and when 742 00:43:22,958 --> 00:43:28,683 you look at like kind of brand loyalty that the software Is I think been kind of 743 00:43:28,683 --> 00:43:32,026 the biggest Achilles heel and maybe not fully appreciated I think a lot of people 744 00:43:32,026 --> 00:43:36,414 even still kind of like oh, yeah, that was cool We 745 00:43:36,414 --> 00:43:39,917 put a lot of money into it, but it's just turned out to be such a big hassle and Ken 746 00:43:39,917 --> 00:43:41,498 has now dismissed it. 747 00:43:41,598 --> 00:43:46,303 But like your time out with Rivian, especially, like I think that is a huge 748 00:43:46,303 --> 00:43:51,227 component while there is a lot of their marketing and the hardware and the camp 749 00:43:51,227 --> 00:43:55,411 kitchen and all these sorts of things that they've kind of tried to put a focus on to 750 00:43:55,551 --> 00:43:57,313 even reinforce that alignment. 751 00:43:57,313 --> 00:43:58,133 I think 752 00:43:58,238 --> 00:44:03,061 the people who actually buy the cars and then that day-to-day experience and become 753 00:44:03,061 --> 00:44:07,323 those kind of grassroots and other people like pushing it, the software makes a huge 754 00:44:07,323 --> 00:44:13,868 difference in that experience for them to kind of feel like they are having a fine 755 00:44:13,868 --> 00:44:18,731 tailored experience unlike what they would have gone from driving a Subaru or 756 00:44:18,731 --> 00:44:19,551 something. 757 00:44:19,891 --> 00:44:20,489 And don't 758 00:44:20,489 --> 00:44:25,414 I think it's just really interesting to me that software is a big component, I think, 759 00:44:25,414 --> 00:44:27,556 of that long-term brand loyalty. 760 00:44:28,097 --> 00:44:33,102 And I know that me personally, that's been a big thing for me, and especially when 761 00:44:33,102 --> 00:44:38,627 you are going, as we started on, like long road trips, like if you're gonna, it 762 00:44:38,627 --> 00:44:41,229 almost seemed like for a while that you had Tesla. 763 00:44:42,650 --> 00:44:47,152 I think Porsche had a little bit, but unfortunately it's not like they're a very 764 00:44:47,152 --> 00:44:52,515 accessible EV, but those are two cars that had pretty good route planning and that is 765 00:44:52,515 --> 00:44:56,737 once again such a big part of the EV experience and that is driven by software. 766 00:44:57,037 --> 00:45:03,601 And so I'm curious to see how, and Rivian obviously is now kind of gone up and 767 00:45:03,601 --> 00:45:06,803 they're sending a lot of these updates very frequently. 768 00:45:07,123 --> 00:45:12,085 And I do think that when you look at the long-term strategy for these 769 00:45:12,566 --> 00:45:18,027 EV focused companies that is probably going to be the big one of the big three 770 00:45:18,027 --> 00:45:22,228 things that makes them the companies that will be taking so much market share long 771 00:45:22,228 --> 00:45:25,989 term from the traditional companies is that software that leads to a much more 772 00:45:26,170 --> 00:45:29,891 engaging and kind of personalized experience. 773 00:45:30,111 --> 00:45:34,032 I'm curious if there's any other things that you've seen that have really impacted 774 00:45:34,032 --> 00:45:39,522 the brand loyalty for EVs or things that have kind of made. 775 00:45:39,522 --> 00:45:45,609 you either loyal to your both or now kind of more loyal to the Ionic as just like as 776 00:45:45,609 --> 00:45:48,674 far as these kinds of special things that stand out for you. 777 00:45:48,674 --> 00:45:50,937 No, I think actually it's almost the opposite. 778 00:45:50,937 --> 00:45:55,381 It's done a kind of reset on brand loyalty for a lot of, at least early adopters, I 779 00:45:55,381 --> 00:45:59,826 don't know how their early mainstream will kind of position themselves, but I think 780 00:45:59,826 --> 00:46:04,231 the reason I chose the IONIQ was purely the new platform, the 800 volt platform 781 00:46:04,231 --> 00:46:04,992 and the charging. 782 00:46:04,992 --> 00:46:10,137 So it's been, you know, we've gone from 40, 50 minute stops to 20 minute stops. 783 00:46:10,694 --> 00:46:11,674 for our charging needs. 784 00:46:11,674 --> 00:46:15,397 So, you know, it gives a little more flexibility on travel, but I don't think 785 00:46:15,397 --> 00:46:21,963 other than being quite impressed with that EV technology, that I'm a Hyundai or Kia 786 00:46:21,963 --> 00:46:24,744 or any other kind of loyal customer. 787 00:46:25,205 --> 00:46:26,706 And that wasn't the case. 788 00:46:26,706 --> 00:46:27,907 I've kind of loved the Bolt actually. 789 00:46:27,907 --> 00:46:32,010 It was a really good car that I'd happily have again as a kind of second EV. 790 00:46:32,691 --> 00:46:34,693 But again, GM has made some missteps. 791 00:46:34,693 --> 00:46:37,715 And in terms of the software kind of thing that we're talking about, Hyundai hasn't 792 00:46:37,715 --> 00:46:40,337 really pulled up any trees in delivering, you know. 793 00:46:40,794 --> 00:46:44,677 regular updates and kind of system that's probably the weaker parts of the car. 794 00:46:45,238 --> 00:46:49,883 I don't think any of them have really, including the new, the new manufacturers, 795 00:46:49,883 --> 00:46:54,368 you know, there's Tesla has its following, of course, you know, that's, that's a huge 796 00:46:54,368 --> 00:46:56,410 kind of driver in the industry. 797 00:46:56,410 --> 00:47:00,011 But even them, I think you're seeing how do they crack this mainstream? 798 00:47:00,011 --> 00:47:03,593 You know, there's a whole pool of people out there who are brand new to electric 799 00:47:03,593 --> 00:47:07,055 vehicles, and there are some kind of segments that will stay with a Subaru, 800 00:47:07,055 --> 00:47:10,976 that will stay with Toyota because they know it and they have that brand value. 801 00:47:10,976 --> 00:47:14,618 But I think it's splintering and fracturing to a point where you say, well, 802 00:47:14,618 --> 00:47:18,760 yeah, Toyota can build an excellent, reliable combustion car or a hybrid car. 803 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:23,502 But I don't think I think everybody has a track record to create now with 804 00:47:23,502 --> 00:47:24,343 electrification. 805 00:47:24,343 --> 00:47:26,743 And I think you're seeing brands like Hyundai and Kia. 806 00:47:27,344 --> 00:47:29,784 trying to kind of reinvent themselves. 807 00:47:29,784 --> 00:47:34,645 Like their design side has gone completely, you know, in the opposite 808 00:47:34,645 --> 00:47:35,105 direction. 809 00:47:35,105 --> 00:47:38,866 And a lot of really taking advantage of the form factor of EV is being able to 810 00:47:38,866 --> 00:47:42,627 stretch out that wheelbase, make more space inside the car, you know, take away 811 00:47:42,687 --> 00:47:43,327 the tunnel. 812 00:47:43,327 --> 00:47:48,448 There's a bunch of different things that are kind of going into this transition and 813 00:47:48,448 --> 00:47:52,469 it's an opportunity for a lot of automakers to start to really move. 814 00:47:52,469 --> 00:47:55,429 I think what you're seeing though is, you know, some 815 00:47:55,842 --> 00:47:58,945 Some automakers, traditional automakers, fumbled the ball a little bit. 816 00:47:58,945 --> 00:48:01,787 Nissan being a good example, you know, we've talked about them starting the 817 00:48:01,787 --> 00:48:06,271 movement with the Leaf and then just kind of going off on a weird side track, kind 818 00:48:06,271 --> 00:48:09,835 of failing to deliver their Nissan area at a time when it would have been pretty good 819 00:48:09,835 --> 00:48:13,758 EV and then launching it at a time when it's basically, you know, one of many, 820 00:48:13,758 --> 00:48:16,521 many crossover SUVs in the market. 821 00:48:17,242 --> 00:48:21,267 GM, another good one, you know, came to market pretty before, you know, Tesla 822 00:48:21,267 --> 00:48:22,688 really with the Model 3. 823 00:48:22,688 --> 00:48:28,395 They had the Bolt TV doing that 250, 300 miles, you know, before Tesla had that 824 00:48:28,395 --> 00:48:28,836 Model 3. 825 00:48:28,836 --> 00:48:33,421 But again, just kind of the switch to Altium has been really kind of... 826 00:48:33,642 --> 00:48:36,525 Fumbled a little bit, you know the software side seems to have been a problem 827 00:48:36,525 --> 00:48:40,730 They haven't managed to ramp up production as quickly as they wanted So then 828 00:48:40,730 --> 00:48:45,375 discontinuing the bolt as a you know, the most affordable EV on the market You just 829 00:48:45,375 --> 00:48:47,036 see these kind of semi 830 00:48:48,018 --> 00:48:51,219 the missteps that, you know, they could have built both of these manufacturers, 831 00:48:51,219 --> 00:48:54,600 General Moses and Nissan, very different, but they could have built quite a loyal 832 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:59,942 base of EV followers and adoption, and then build from there to prove that 833 00:48:59,942 --> 00:49:05,383 they've got the kind of chops to become an EV only, or at least an EV primary 834 00:49:05,543 --> 00:49:06,164 manufacturer. 835 00:49:06,164 --> 00:49:08,464 But I think it's just a big opportunity for everybody. 836 00:49:08,464 --> 00:49:11,285 You know, there's a lot of, a long way to go. 837 00:49:11,285 --> 00:49:15,047 Nobody has really convinced everybody, except for Tesla, that they can make and 838 00:49:15,047 --> 00:49:17,607 market EVs, you know, that are compelling. 839 00:49:17,848 --> 00:49:19,009 consistently. 840 00:49:19,350 --> 00:49:22,777 So it's kind of early days, even though it seems like we've been here for a long 841 00:49:22,777 --> 00:49:23,078 time. 842 00:49:23,078 --> 00:49:24,660 It's a lot of road ahead of 843 00:49:29,882 --> 00:49:33,862 Thank you for joining us today and a big thank you to Steve for sharing his 844 00:49:33,862 --> 00:49:38,562 experience and thoughts on the EV industry with all of us today. 845 00:49:38,662 --> 00:49:42,362 I really appreciate everything that people have been doing to send feedback as well 846 00:49:42,362 --> 00:49:45,562 as share recommendations for guests on the show. 847 00:49:45,562 --> 00:49:49,732 I also hope that it wasn't too obvious that I recorded this episode at 5 a .m. 848 00:49:49,732 --> 00:49:54,122 my time, but some of these things that we've had to do kind of on the fly with 849 00:49:54,122 --> 00:49:57,434 the new job, but hoping to kind of get to more of a... 850 00:49:57,434 --> 00:50:00,434 rhythm that should make it a lot easier and kind of get back to where we were 851 00:50:00,434 --> 00:50:02,594 previous to the little hiatus there. 852 00:50:02,594 --> 00:50:07,654 Once again remember this evening I will be on and this evening being Wednesday April 853 00:50:07,654 --> 00:50:13,854 10th I will be on Steve's podcast as well talking about EV road tripping at 5 p .m. 854 00:50:13,854 --> 00:50:15,034 Pacific. 855 00:50:15,114 --> 00:50:20,394 Once again thank you and until next time this is the Grid Connections podcast 856 00:50:20,394 --> 00:50:21,143 signing off.