David (00:27.838) I dropped mine. Mike (00:31.309) Well, hello again and welcome to our silly little podcast. It is silly. David (00:38.586) It is silly and it's little, but it's not as little as it used to be and it's going to be getting bigger. Mike (00:44.021) No, it's getting bigger all the time. All the time. So, we are here. Obviously you may see somebody else on your screen or hear another voice if you're just listening to us. And, that would be me. That would be her. And you are? I'm Ruby. I'm his kid. I think. I think. David (00:47.377) all the time. David (00:58.129) I know I do. David (01:05.656) that would be she. Mike (01:13.761) Maybe. Do we look similar? Must be mine. Man! Must be mine. David (01:14.854) No offense. Yeah, y'all do. And no offense, Ruby, you're not mine. So you must be his. I know, I feel the same way. man, I like this kid. Mike (01:26.957) I like you too, David. David (01:28.894) Yay, she bit the bait, yay. Mike (01:32.109) Yay! Woo! So today we are. David (01:36.434) Well, thanks for joining us for our next book we're going to read. just kidding. Too early. Sorry. Mike (01:41.197) Too early. Thanks for joining us while we discuss this book. David (01:47.934) Da da da. Mike (01:50.109) And Ruby, why don't you tell us what book we are reading? So we read... David (01:57.956) And cut Ruby. Tell us what book we're reading. Take two action. Mike (02:03.915) We're reading El Defo by C.C. Bell. Cool. And why are we reading this book? Because when I was in second grade, my teacher read it to us because my friend told her about it and said it was really good. So then my teacher bought a copy of the book and then she read it to us and I really liked it. So here we are. So here we are. David (02:27.12) Indeed, that's awesome. Mike (02:29.228) Yeah. So I've read this a couple of times, a long time ago. And I kind of forgot some of the story. I remember the big points. But then I read it again last week, big plot points. I read it last week. And rim. obviously remembered at all because I was reading it at that point and really loved it. Yeah, it's really good. So do you want to give us a synopsis of the Sure. Shortened? So basically it's a graphic novel about the author, C.C. Bell, and how she got meningitis when she was, I believe she was four. David (03:02.748) I never. Mike (03:23.8) and then she went deaf. So it's about kind of her like life and just like going through school and everything. Cool trials and tribulations of being a child who goes deaf in elementary school and then beyond. And then there's rabbits. There's rabbits. Well they they yeah they're rabbits because she thought it was funny. bad. David (03:48.776) They're rabbits. Mike (03:53.325) Because she thought it was funny. Because rabbits have really long ears, so you would think they're good at hearing. So she thought it was funny to have the rabbit be deaf. And how do you know that? You know a lot about this. David (04:00.531) Right. Mike (04:09.58) You know what? I don't know 100 % how I know this. My guess is either it's on the back or it's from when either when we emailed with her right after we read the book or when I met her. It's one of those three. So hence, A, it's a great book. It's a great story. But B, David (04:26.557) Wow. Mike (04:37.654) Part of the reason you love this book is that you talked about it in school and emailed with the author and met her at a book signing. Yes. Speaking of which. David (04:53.736) Okay, time out. You've emailed Cece Bell and you've met her and talked with her. Mike (05:01.322) Yes. David (05:04.496) Autocraft. Ruby is so super cool. That's awesome. That's super cool. Not super cook, right? Mike (05:11.666) Yeah, it's super cool. Yeah. That is super cool. And we used to have two copies of this, right? Yeah, I think so. We may or may not still have the second copy, but this is obviously the one that has been read a lot, as you can see. Branded and loved, because I've read it so many times. David (05:13.19) Okay, that is super cool. David (05:29.362) That is fantastic. Well, I've only read it once and it was in the past few days. Well, so as you know, Mike and Ruby, I don't think you know this. I don't like to know anything about a book when I start reading it. So I don't even read the back cover that says all the things. So it says, well, it says not all the things, but it says many of the things. And in my humble opinion, too many of the things. Mike (05:34.188) And what were your thoughts? Mike (05:44.876) Friday. Mike (05:50.412) All the things. Mike (05:58.623) Okay. David (05:59.315) So I start reading it and I also have never read a graphic, I take that back. I've never read a graphic novel for kids before. I've read a few for adults and one of them is called Mouse, M-A-U-S, which is a, And when we do that, Mike, I will show you my autograph copy from the author saying to David. Mike (06:08.459) Okay. Okay. I have read that too. Mike (06:22.56) That's pretty cool. David (06:23.92) It is pretty cool. and also my version had had. Yeah. Did you say pause? Mike (06:26.474) Let's pause. Mike (06:30.476) Remember where you're going to start. Look at the camera more than the screen. Go on. David (06:39.966) My version of the book has this thing in it because I got it from my library. I just put it on hold. I didn't even know what it was, but I guess it's a read along thing. It's called Wonder Book and you press play. And I did it at my public speaking elective the other day where my girls go to school. An elective that I teach, I press play. was very annoying, but I opened the book, start reading it. And I'm like, okay, this is interesting. I like it a lot. I love already how it's first person. narrative and she is saying things in the yellow boxes and then there's all the things going on and then I'm reading and no she gets sick and then I'm reading and then around here I'm like wow they must have had some kind of ink problem because the words in her voice bubbles are getting more and more pale and then I thought she's losing her hearing I had no idea yeah I had no idea and What's that? Mike (07:41.078) Ding ding ding ding! David (07:41.959) Yeah, exactly. And what's cool about it is that right then I was so glad I hadn't read anything because I got to experience that what is going on. And I didn't know what was going on. And I once I realized that I thought, graphic novels are cool. There's so many cool things you can do. So many cool devices like that. And there are so many more in the book. That was my beginning impressions of the book to cut to the end. I loved it. I loved it so much. This is one of my favorite books that we've read and we don't have enough time today to talk about all the reasons. So we will talk about some of them, but I really, really loved the book. It was amazing. So thank you, Ruby, for bringing me into this world and introducing me to this book. It's all your fault. I blame you completely. Mike (08:32.14) Good. I blame me too. Good, because I blame you too. Cool. Indeed. Good. We all blame me. Perfect. Sounds good. That's so funny. But I agree with you. I think the book is just fantastic. I really enjoyed it. It's very touching. it's, I don't know, it's so true to life. David (08:34.416) Excellent, as well you should! David (08:40.188) Yes, good stuff. Mike (09:01.9) I think because it really shows like what she went through at that age with the kids that hurt rate are her age and really just makes it very real. It's not like she's trying to pull any punches. David (09:03.154) Yes. David (09:18.716) Yes. speaking. No, and speaking of real and age, I very quickly realized that this takes place in a certain era, and it was a very realistic portrayal of that, because I I would venture to guess that there's more awareness from both kids and adults and how to deal with situations like this today. And also, as I'm reading it, like I said, didn't know a thing about it at one point. Mike (09:32.296) Mm-hmm. David (09:48.723) think it was the chart when she first sees the audiologist, the doctor, and it has her chart. I was looking at the chart. What's that? Yeah, looking at the chart and I saw the date was 9 14 76. And I thought, wait a second. Is this autobiographical? I mean, that cue alone. Yeah, there it is. I thought I wrote is CC Bell deaf. Like I wrote, this auto? Mike (09:53.772) Uh-huh. Mike (09:59.092) No. We're just saying, Mike (10:11.562) Yes. Thank you. David (10:18.246) And then, you know, shortly after that, it was clear and I forgot where, but it's like, my gosh, she is. Cause I did not stop and go do Google research or read the back. I'm like, Nope. want to, I want this to be revealed to me in real time. And it was just so cool. That was just another example of how I love the book. I love the story and I love the way she does it. Mike (10:40.832) Yeah, there's a lot of really cool details. So what? I think I really like. Let me see if I can find it. I really like the part where she's hanging out with her friend Emma and she's like trying to figure out like Emma's offering her a drink and she's like she can't understand what she's saying. David (10:43.773) What is some of your favorite? David (11:00.487) Mm-hmm. Mike (11:09.898) because it sounds so weird and she's like 25 25 and she's like offering her like juice and a coke and everything and she's like she can't understand it she's like i'll have the goat because she thinks she says goat not coke i think that's a really cool detail i think it's super funny also that she's just like imagining shoes in a glass and a goat in a glass and a broom or a mop David (11:09.918) What page number is that? David (11:16.072) Okay. David (11:25.822) Yep, I agree. David (11:32.53) Yep. Bah, there's a goat in the glass. There's a mop. Jerry's mop is in the glass. Mike (11:41.035) Yes. David (11:42.204) Yeah, it's very funny. I love it. Mike (11:44.33) Very funny. David (11:47.57) Mike, how about you? What's a detail that you liked? Mike (11:49.765) How about I'm going to mark this clip too, because you keep turning away from the microphone when you talk. David (11:56.634) Okay, I gotta stop throwing away from my room while you talk. Okay. Mike (11:59.754) or pull it closer to you. David (12:02.387) I'll do all the above. Anyway, yeah. So, Mike, what what? So, Mike, what are some of your favorite details? Would you notice? Mike (12:06.038) So ask me again. Mike (12:11.542) So I, there are so many, but. I think the very first thing, and it has nothing to do with the story per se, in a way it does, but I just want to say more cowbell. And I did mark it so that I'd remember with my little cat tab. but I thought that when I was looking at it and I was like, David (12:33.534) I didn't notice that! David (12:43.324) That is awesome. Mike (12:47.912) As soon as I saw it, was like, more cowbell. But yeah, there really are so many things in here that are so fun. But then there's also so many things that really is a great teaching book. You know, the whole, she goes through several friendships because David (12:54.226) That is brilliant. David (13:15.357) Mm-hmm. Mike (13:17.792) Sometimes people don't know how to relate to people with a handicap, whether it's hearing loss or being blind. People overcompensate for, yeah, because you're deaf. I'm going to yell at you so that you hear me better. Or, you're from Germany, so I'll yell at you so that you'll understand English. And that's not a handicap. David (13:31.004) Like when they yell. David (13:44.102) English is much more understandable when you yell, but yeah, it could be. Yeah. Mike (13:49.313) Yeah. So I think it really, being that it's from her point of view, I think it's great to show how frustrating that can be. I get that you're trying to be nice to me, but you're just patronizing me and making me feel even worse. David (14:03.422) Mm-hmm. David (14:15.774) Yes. No, I agree. And one of the things I noticed is there are times when I was kind of trying to root her on and say, just tell them, just tell them. And there's so many, I totally understand why she wouldn't want to. I totally get it. But listening to you, why didn't anyone say, Hey, does this help? Like I know they're kids also, but still it's like, you know, I'm yelling or I guess people could have paid attention more, I guess is what I'm saying. That was a thought that also happened. Mike (14:49.588) And I think that I think part of that, do you have a? Yeah. So I think part of that is there was one point she did try like with, with her friend, Jenny, who was talking really slow, can you understand me now? Eventually, like she did try to tell her like, this isn't helping and it didn't work. So that made it hard. So I would imagine that made it harder for her to try to tell other people. David (15:09.288) Mm-hmm. Mm. Mike (15:15.506) if things were or weren't helping in the future because she had that bad experience in the past. Yeah. David (15:20.06) Right. That makes sense. Telling telling someone how something's helping or not didn't help. So I'm not going to bother. Yeah, OK, that makes sense. Well, and there were other times and Mike, mentioned a few minutes ago that she had a bunch of different friendships and there was one that was going really well and I was just like waiting for something to go wrong. And I was like. Mike (15:26.59) Exactly. Yeah. That's true. David (15:47.581) The emotion and the plot thickens as trite as that is. That's how I felt. thought, okay, wait, we are only, you know, this thickness into the book. There's still time for things to get better, but they have to get worse first. And I just was like, what is going to happen? Yeah. And will they get better? mean, clearly you just don't know with real life and everything. So, but all that. Mike (16:03.947) And how much worse are they going to I know, right? Mike (16:12.417) Yeah. David (16:15.154) that the point is I love the book so much that I really cared, really cared about her and was really invested in it and just wanted to see what was gonna happen. Mike (16:24.79) Yeah. So great. Yeah. David (16:25.928) So, yeah. And I wrote this down around pages 129 to 130 when Martha became her superhero. I got misty eyed. Mike (16:30.252) I'm Mike (16:39.409) Yeah. Yeah, it's really cool. David (16:40.369) I really did. David (16:44.274) So anyway, I just loved it. Mike (16:46.352) We missed whatever you just said. David (16:49.418) about Misty. I when Martha. I was just while I was waiting for the shoe to drop. That was one of the moments where when that good thing happened, I literally wrote down, OK, I am waiting for the shoe to drop. When is this good thing going to change? And, know, it did, but not badly and all that. And so but still, it was just I just did I say I love this book? Mike (16:52.234) you got misty eyed and then something. Mike (17:17.077) Maybe maybe maybe once or twice David (17:19.876) Okay. Well, and Ruby, you don't know this unless your dad has told you, I don't own all of the books. I sometimes get them from libraries and stuff. And my wife did remind me I don't have to buy every single book that we do. This is an exception. I'm going to buy my own copy without the tape recorder thing or whatever that is the beginning. Yeah, I just it was great. So Mike (17:32.588) True. Mike (17:38.998) That's fair. Mike (17:45.907) Is there Mike (17:53.079) Hmm. Let me mark this so that I know that, yes. So I know where I'm going to be cutting stuff. David (17:56.902) It's a markable place. David (18:05.467) I've got more observations. Mike (18:07.126) trying to think of where to go. David (18:10.942) Of right now you're not here, you're frozen. I don't know if you can hear me, but that was a good place. Mike (18:14.156) Is there anything you want to talk about in the book? There was something that I was literally just thinking of like 10 seconds ago and now it's gone. Give it a second. it was when she had with the. Do you want me to ask? Yeah. OK. So was there anything else that you wanted to talk about with the book? So there was one other thing that I thought was really, really kind of funny. was when her, she got a new neighbor and she had a crush on him. And then, and then they ended up hanging out all of the time, all the time. And then when they both got chosen to be in, I think it was like a school play about books and they were bookends and they had to get matching pajamas. And then she's, she's on stage and she starts laughing. David (18:48.83) Mm-hmm. David (19:03.302) Yeah. Mike (19:10.668) because she hears her teacher go in the bathroom and then he comes out and he's like, what was so funny? they're just like, I heard the teacher peeing. It was so good. Yes. It was. was Mike Miller. Mike Miller. Did anyone know of Mike Miller? C.C. Belvin. Did she or was that one of the names that she made up? I don't know. David (19:13.031) Yes! David (19:20.306) Yeah, I could totally see that. That was awesome. Mike was his name. Is that right? Was that Mike? Mike Miller, that's awesome. I did. David (19:37.458) It's not. Mike (19:39.005) Okay, I didn't think so. thought I read something about some of the people or some of the names. She changed their names and kind of put people together so that because there would be way too many characters, you know, putting things together that other people did. So, yeah. I don't think she would have done that with him because I feel like he was just such a central character that I feel like. David (19:51.656) Mm-hmm. Mike (20:08.65) But it makes sense. Tell me more. maybe that's where I. David (20:11.582) the real Mike Miller. In the scrap, y'all have the scrapbook thing at the end, her scrapbook? Mike (20:18.956) Oh, yeah, it should. Thought it did. Does it not? She talks about stuff. Oh, does it not have the It doesn't have the pictures in this one. David (20:26.334) There's the. wow. Yeah, so mine has these are real pictures, and that's a picture of the Miller family when they first moved in. And then there's a picture of Mike and Cece as adults. She says, no, I did not marry him, but we are friends. Mike (20:40.628) No, she married the guy that did the Was it the Inspector Flytrap? What's the Inspector Flytrap? It was... Can I borrow your She married another author. And I think he did books. David (21:05.736) But did he appear in this book? David (21:11.986) Y'all froze. Mike (21:15.254) Did he what? David (21:17.032) Did he appear in this book? Was he one of the characters? Or not characters, he's one of the people. Okay. Mike (21:19.818) He was not one of the characters, but she married Tom Engelberger who... Mike (21:43.638) How did we get into a, we're talking about Mike Noah. David (21:48.54) Yeah, Mike Miller, who she did not marry, but is good friends with. Mike (21:55.245) The books here isn't there works, you know, but none of these are Like there's one that I'm like thinking of. he did some some Geronimo Stilton stuff. Geronimo Stilton. He's a mouse, right? I Think I think it was a mouse and he's done a couple of other things That are really interesting, but I just think it's really cool that That she married another author they David (22:24.073) That is cool. Mike (22:24.524) who also does children's books. Who also does children's books, and I believe that they've also written a couple together, I think. Cool. Which is pretty cool. David (22:32.751) that's fine. Yeah, the little little blurb in the back just says she lives in Virginia with her husband, Tom Engelberger. It doesn't say much about his stuff and stuff they've done together in my version. Although I'm on the back cover now. And just so you know, this may be the first book I've ever looked at or read that has warning choking hazard, small parts. Not for children, not for children under three years. Caution, electronically operated product. Mike (23:00.044) That would not be a NARS. Yeah, no. Yeah, that's really funny. David (23:02.537) So I wish I had those warnings ahead of time. I would have been far more careful than I was. Shame on me. Mike (23:09.822) Yeah, don't want to choke on those really big words. David (23:13.955) I sure don't. They're big. The good news is they're so big you can't choke on them. Wait, I missed something. I saw a high five. What did I miss? Because I was talking. Mike (23:23.69) You saw a high five because we were high fiving. Yeah. Because we were talking about the big words and the of big words. Yeah, the book of big words. Choking on the big words. David (23:26.495) I love it. David (23:33.353) The book with lots of pictures. Another thing that I love Mike and you would identify with this throughout the entire book. It's very clear that CC is the same age as we are because she mentions Batman on TV. So that was the live action Batman TV show that aired in the sixties, but aired in syndication when we were growing up in the seventies. Did you catch that? She rich. She mentioned. Mike (23:47.019) Yes. Mike (23:51.636) Uh-huh. yeah, did. Mike (24:01.441) but I was in Germany, so I never saw any of that on TV. David (24:05.6) that's right. Wow. So that. OK, then that case, she mentions the Flintstones, she mentions Monty Python record, she mentions the Snow Queen and Narnia. Mike (24:07.53) Yeah, that's my excuse for the 70s. Mike (24:18.418) Uh-huh. Which remind... Yeah, a lot of that stuff, I just was like, it so reminded me of many a conversation I've had with you. David (24:28.927) Richard scary at least you know who he is now. She mentioned that. Mike (24:33.642) Yeah, exactly. think the first time I read it, I'm like, who's that? That was how I first heard of Richard, Richard scary as well in second grade was this book. Which makes sense because your parents didn't have any. No, no. Yeah. David (24:38.089) Ahaha! David (24:44.052) I love it. I love it. Did your kids or? Right. And even Trapper Keepers. Mike (24:54.151) Uh-huh. David (24:55.183) the folders and then the monkeys, you know, the TV show, the monkeys. Yes, they are. and then. People say we do and something and we're not doing that, something that people say that we are doing, we're just mucking around. Sorry. Does it. This. I get with the high five. There was also a mashup of Little House, the Waltons and Star Trek. Mike (24:59.306) Hey hey, hey hey with monkeys, monkey around, something like that. Something. Mike (25:12.62) I'm a monkey. Sorry, that was for a friend. David (25:24.767) yeah, it was really fun. anyway, just lots of really, I think it was with Martha Clayton, were watching TV, Little House, and it was great. That was really, that was a really cute moment, but again, very realistic. Mike (25:28.684) Thanks, John Boy. Mike (25:33.876) Yeah. Yeah. Funny how it all comes back to the books we've already read for this show, right? Yes, it does. Pretty funny. David (25:40.907) I know exactly. It's part of the American literature thing, unless you were in Germany. But anyway, that's okay. That's it. Mike (25:50.781) Universe well the the literature part I still had a lot of that stuff in Germany just You know in the 70s TV was very limited all over the world So I mean they had like I remember there were two or three channels. They were all in German and That's where I first watched the Muppets Oddly they were in German David (26:05.63) Yes. David (26:15.185) wow! David (26:19.175) And no subtitles, just pure German. Wow. That's cool. Mike (26:23.806) And there was one channel that was the Armed Forces Radio Television Channel, whatever the heck it was called. I don't remember. Somebody put it down in the comments down below. Tell us more. Tell us more. Tell me more. David (26:38.015) Or email us at dads on email us at dads on books at Jamal.com. I'm sorry, Ruby. What were you saying? Singing what? heard something. Mike (26:45.398) Jamail! Mike (26:49.228) She was saying, tell me more. Tell me more like does he have a David (26:54.621) Does he have a car? Mike (26:57.708) me more, tell me more! Anyway. I don't know the order. I don't remember either. David (27:02.921) Can you open this jar? think it was the next lyric, right, Mike? Mike (27:06.932) I thought it was open this door. David (27:09.023) Oh, yeah, sure. But hey, also 1970s, Greece premiered in Chicago in like 71 and the movie exploded in 1978. So again, with the 70s. Mike (27:20.264) A lot of 70s stuffy stuff stuffs. Okay. Have I embarrassed you enough yet? Sure. Okay. Cool. Yes. David (27:23.123) Mm-hmm. David (27:27.291) Okay, so I've got some cool... David (27:32.935) Okay, good, because I'm going to say some things now that won't embarrass you. So Ruby, teach. Yeah, I teach at my girls school and I was reading this book during a free period that I have in the library and the librarian was there. So she and I talked about this. And not only is this book in our little Catholic school library, Miss Dickinson, yes, Miss Dickinson loves the book and. Mike (27:37.515) Well. Mike (27:49.28) huh. Mike (27:57.494) good. Mike (28:00.832) What in the Dickinson? David (28:02.209) Exactly. It's not Charles Dickens, but she loves it anyway. boy, I was going to say we'll fix that in post, but I know you won't. Mike (28:13.388) You know him well enough to know he would not fix that in post. Nope. I only cut the good stuff out. David (28:23.538) I had learned in one of my classes, I was talking to my public speaking students about book talks because I don't know if they could ever use a public speaking teacher when preparing for a book talk. I don't know. They don't seem to know that yet. That's just me. But they were talking about the books they have to read. And I asked, I thought that my students would love this book. And I said, has anyone ever heard of this book or read it? And none of them had. And I said, okay, let's talk graphic novels. And you know, the book is a very the book. The school is a very classical based education. There's handwriting and books and all that. So I thought they would be against. What's that? Mike (29:01.376) Handwriting. Speaking of handwriting, have a story. So back to when we were emailing Cece Bell after we read the book. I sent her, like we all sent her letters and then she sent an email back to the whole class. Except she sent an email to the teacher separate from the one that was for the whole class. David (29:04.628) Did you say or I love? Go ahead, go ahead. Mike (29:29.9) specifically directed at me and in that email one thing that she mentioned apparently I as a second grader had better handwriting than she did at that time David (29:32.662) wow. David (29:45.14) That is awesome. Mike (29:46.624) Thank you, Ms. Pesh. David (29:48.49) Let me ask you a question. Did you learn cursive or was this print? Mike (29:50.529) work. Mike (29:53.952) I- we learned cursive. I did not write that letter in cursive, because I suck at cursive. But I know how to do it. David (29:55.84) How you doing? David (29:59.368) Okay, I love it. You can read cursive. Mike (30:04.831) Except when it comes from my grandmother, yes. Which one? Most of them. I know. But specifically grandma's handwriting. Okay. Yeah, I have a hard time reading anybody's handwriting, but... Sometimes I can get grandmama's, but not all of them. So, not only did the teacher sent us an email... Did you go back and She sent us, yeah. She sent us an email. David (30:07.168) That's awesome. I was gonna say, I know some of them. Mike (30:34.54) with a picture of Ruby's letter, which if you want, can. Yeah, you can. I can. Yeah. OK. If it's OK, I will put it up. I want to read it before you it up. But I'll also put it up, maybe not the whole thing, just so that you can see your handwriting. Of course. David (30:39.383) wow! David (30:55.218) And make sure you make sure you run it by legal, Mike. OK, run it by legal first, just in case. Mike (30:58.558) Okay. Yeah. Let me, let me check in with, Bill and Ted at the legal department. I, I, all I could think of was something, something Esquire and then Esquire took me to Bill and Ted. David (31:05.81) Hahaha David (31:17.844) That was an excellent, excellent adventure, Mike. Excellent. Mike (31:21.004) It was, wasn't it? But, but so she sent us the, the, the picture of Ruby's letter, but then she also sent that response from Cece Bell saying about the handwriting, which was so fun. So fun when you actually was other things in that email, by the way, it was not exclusively about my handwriting. No, it was not. David (31:50.289) all about your handwriting. Mike (31:50.977) But that's the thing I remember the most. I remember parts of it other than that. But that I will never forget. And do you have any idea of why you wrote the letter? I mean, everybody wrote a letter. Yeah. But why would she have been attracted to responding to your letter in particular? David (31:57.607) that's awesome. I love it. I love it. Mike (32:17.812) Or do you not want to talk about it? No, we can. Okay. I think it was... I don't remember for sure, but I think I may have talked about my walk-aid in the letter, mentioned it, because I feel like in her response, I remember something about us both being bionic or something. Yes. Yes. Good memory. This was nine years ago, by the way, for those of you at home. David (32:40.022) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mike (32:46.742) This was nine years ago, and I still remember all of this. David (32:51.242) So you said walk aid. What is a walk aid? Mike (32:55.146) It was basically, so I'm going to compare it to the Phonic ear here because I'm on El Defo is basically a Phonic ear, but for your knee, basically big box strap it onto your knee and then it shocks your knee so that your leg will move. David (33:06.61) David (33:13.396) wow. Cause when you said walk and I thought I imagined like a Walker or something like that, but it is a lot. No, but it's a lot more like the font, the. Phonic ear. Yeah. That's really cool. Mike (33:26.088) Yeah. Except mine had, fortunately, unlike the Fonicure, was not boring. It had a, it was like this pink cheetah print kind of thing on it, like this little cover. It was kind of cute. I don't know. I just thought it was cute. David (33:28.2) Uh-huh. David (33:42.912) They didn't make these things kind of cute in the 70s. Mike (33:46.933) No. Well, apparently there was a cute pouch that had polka dots. That's true. That's something to put something in, which is cool because you can totally do that. But this was actually the color of the holder, I think. was the holder, not the... Well, I guess it's Yeah, it was similar because it wasn't the actual thing. The actual thing was just like electronics. And then you put it in like a little case or whatever. David (33:50.824) Yeah, but that's, that's a point. David (33:59.402) Mm-hmm. David (34:03.476) the thing itself. David (34:12.564) Got it, okay. Mike (34:16.414) and strap that to your to your leg. And then you had to draw Sharpie marks on me. So yes, when it fell down, Miss Karen's could fix it. Yep. David (34:26.88) which I'm assuming that happened. Mike (34:27.626) Yeah, so what? David (34:31.252) We were having a little moment. said, I'm assuming that happened. I got not one, but two thumbs up. Yeah. Mike (34:33.228) Oh. All the time. Yes. Multiple times a day, I would have to go get, I would have to get up and get my teacher to move it back up because my tiny six year old me could not keep the thing where it needed to be. And then it would slip down and it would shock like my shin and it hurt really bad. So I'd have to get her to go fix it. And it was really awkward because there were some times when it like hurt bad enough that I like couldn't move and I would just have to sit still and David (34:54.676) Mm. Mm-hmm. Mike (35:02.856) wait for her to notice and be like, do you need help? And I was like, help me please. David (35:09.28) So that's what, like first grade? What is six years old? Kindergarten? Yeah, first grade. Mike (35:11.532) That was first grade. That was the year before we did the letters. So, six. David (35:16.208) Right. OK. Yeah. So that means when you did the letters and when the teacher read the book to you, that really that was only a year after this. So that was right. Really, really appeals to you. That makes sense. Wow. Mike (35:23.574) Yep. Yeah. Yeah, it was really good. Yeah, so the walk-in actually is, they don't actually make one for kids or they didn't at the time. So it's to help physical therapy on, so on Ruby's left side, she has some difficulties. But her leg doesn't work right. David (35:30.698) Do you? David (35:40.394) Mm-hmm. David (35:58.282) Got it. Mike (35:58.387) So this is something that was supposed to possibly help train her, the muscles, how to do things correctly. Not that it did, but. It may have helped, but it may have helped better had there been one that was actually made. Accurately sized for my knee. A good size for someone her age's knee. So, but there wasn't, so that's what we got. And it slipped a lot and it was painful. then there were Sharpies. There were Sharpies. Yeah. There was arguments. I got to draw on your leg all the time. Yeah, like every three days. Yeah. So would shower and then it would just wash off. I thought Sharpies were supposed to be permanent. Right. It says on there permanent. Somewhere I've got one. Sharpie. David (36:28.928) Can you hear me? David (36:36.426) Yeah. David (36:47.337) Yeah, but... David (36:51.646) but I guess they're not tattoos per se, not that permanent. Mike (36:55.798) Per... well maybe it's too... I don't know if you can read it. Permanent. There you go. There you go. Permanent. It's permanent. Permanent. Darn it. Not three days. So yeah. Of course you have multiples. Of course he does. Of course. David (37:16.493) with pens. You know me. Mike (37:20.672) Yep. So, so yeah. Anyone else? Bueller? Bueller. David (37:31.282) I, I, nice. I love it. And y'all are near where that happened in the Chicago suburbs. Mike (37:32.044) Ha! Mike (37:37.152) We sure are. David (37:39.487) So one of the other things that I liked is more of the graphic novel things, like whenever she was imagining herself as the superhero, those were in green, big bubbles. And maybe that kind of stuff is just an absolute normal, that's what I'm looking for, device in graphic novels, but I thought that was really cool. Mike (37:55.055) huh. David (38:05.887) And as I was thinking about the graphic novel idea and also talking to our school librarian about it, there's just, I can't imagine how this story could have been told as well as it was without being a graphic novel. Yeah. Mike (38:18.592) No, I don't think it could've. No. No. It needs the orbit. Yeah, I think some- David (38:24.224) It needs the art. That's absolutely, Ruby, that's exactly, it needs the art. You're absolutely right. Yep. Mike (38:29.482) I think to really understand it from a kid's perspective, it helps so much because like some of the books we read, like you get that explanation from the words, but this is so, there's so many nuances that you have to see to understand. And I think that David (38:34.73) Mm-hmm. David (38:53.333) Yes. Mike (38:58.048) They did a great job putting that all together in this book. Yeah, I totally agree. David (39:03.06) Some examples of that that I love. When she has her packing list when she first gets invited to a sleepover and that's hysterical because my daughters, they do packing lists for campouts and it's similar fun stuff. And also when she, I think when she first explains the phonic ear, it shows it on her, but it also points out the rosette on her t-shirt. Mike (39:10.856) yeah. Mike (39:31.07) Yeah, yes, it's so good David (39:32.704) It points to things that aren't part of it. I laughed out loud so hard when I saw that. And then, of course, the rosette returns. wrote return of the rosette on page 138, and I forgot why. Oh, yeah, it's mega magnification to the of the all powerful rosette. Behold, it's astounding beauty. Mike (39:37.45) or underpants and the Rosa, it's great. Mike (39:46.873) We're kind of through here. Mike (39:57.612) here. David (39:58.91) And I was like, it's the rosette, it's back! Mike (40:01.933) It's magical! You were right! David (40:04.213) The return! my gosh, things like that. guess that's when, yeah, that's when she was spying on Mike Miller, her super crush. That's what it was. Mike (40:12.95) Yeah. So another one of the ones that I think, I don't think you would, it wouldn't hit you as much without seeing the picture. Like her really good friend, Barfink. Yeah. You know, and she's like, does it really look that bad? I think it looks cool. Yeah. I mean, I'm biased, I think it's super cool. Maybe that's another. What? David (40:27.614) Yes. Yes. totally. Yes. You're absolutely right. And thank you for. David (40:37.694) I think it looks worse in real life. But Mike, another point about that. Another point, I'm glad you brought up the friend throwing up. You and I thought when I saw that. I thought, here it is. Here's the other shoe. She's dying of cancer. Great. I'm going to get sucker punched because she's dying of cancer. Nope. Just throwing throwing up because she felt guilty that it was her fault that, you know. Mike (40:59.808) Nope, thank goodness. David (41:07.316) but she heard her eye. Mike (41:09.418) Yeah. Cause, cause she didn't have it bad enough. She can't hear. Now I'm, I poked her eye out and now she can't see. now she's Helen Keller light. That's what she said. She said it in there. That's the only reason I brought it up. That's so funny. Yeah. David (41:22.612) Exactly! I don't mean to lie. David (41:29.554) Okay, I forgot that. And I was like, can we laugh at Helen Keller light? But we especially can because from a kid, this is the way she did. And this is the way kids think. It's the way kids say things. I looked at the, I identified with it. was awesome. Just awesome. Mike (41:35.746) She said it herself. Mike (41:40.491) Yeah? Mike (41:44.201) Absolutely. Another thing that I think is really cool is on page 108 and 109, when they're at their sign language class and she's like, her hearing aid battery is running out. first of all, that it starts to get like, the font starts to get lighter to show that the battery is running out. But then also, David (42:00.106) Mm-hmm. Mike (42:11.23) on the bottom of 109 when it has like the speech bubbles, but they're empty because she can't hear what they're saying. And then in the last panel where it's an empty speech bubble, but then there's an arrow and it says me saying, I don't think so. I just think that's so funny because she's like, well, I have to show that I didn't think so, but I can't say it because I can't hear. Or I said it, but I'm not sure how it came out. Exactly. Cause I couldn't hear it. David (42:24.415) HA HA! David (42:33.109) But since I'm writing a graphic... And since I'm writing a graphic novel, I can write it right here so you can know the important thing that I said in this frame. Mike (42:45.96) Absolutely. David (42:47.035) I love it. Love it. I also discovered something interesting when I read all the stuff in the back of the book about the making of it, even just the acknowledgments. She acknowledges a person who I believe was the colorist. So he helped design the palette for the book, but it was either he or someone else who did the shadow work. And I thought shadow work, and I started looking back. I didn't notice it necessarily. There's really cool shadow work in almost the entire book. Mike (43:05.42) Mm-hmm. Mike (43:22.058) Yeah. David (43:23.029) And I thought, wow, there's a shadowist, a shadower. I mean, I don't know what shadow. Mike (43:30.388) foreshadowing. David (43:31.679) Yeah. How did I not think of that? How did I not think of that? But there's shadows almost everywhere and it's just really cool. I don't know if that's common in graphic novels, but it's all over this one and it's really, really cool. Mike (43:33.58) How did you not? I can't believe it. Mike (43:48.461) Yeah, there are many a shadow. Did you find what you were looking for? I was just looking- I'm gonna bring Ruby back from reading the book again. Sorry. For the 5,000th time. I mean, you're not wrong. I know. No, I was just finding where she's talking about being Helen Keller-like. it's- she's going to school and she sees Martha waiting in line for the bus and she goes- David (43:51.105) Mm-hmm. Mike (44:17.996) Come on Martha, check him out. I'm kind of like Helen Kelly right now. And then she laughs. About glasses. About the glasses. And then Martha throws up again. David (44:22.849) Ha! David (44:27.873) That's right! Okay, that's right. That's awesome. Mike (44:29.734) really feel bad for Martha. I know! It's like, my gosh, Martha, come on, you don't have to feel so guilty. And I understand why you do. She's like, wait, the glasses have nothing to do with my eye. And another really funny detail, which it makes sense that it's in there. But the next panel, when she's like, when Martha's running away, and she's like, wait, the glasses have nothing to do with my eye. The throw up is drawn in there. I think that's just... David (44:37.781) LORETTA STOP BARFING Mike (44:59.638) Perfect. Yeah. It's 165. David (45:00.479) Wait, what page is that? want to see that. page number is that? Mike (45:07.998) you David (45:13.569) yeah, I love it. Mike (45:15.572) Blech! I guess there's no C in it, it's just bleh. David (45:22.816) Bleh. Mike (45:27.382) Pretty awesome book. David (45:27.563) So good. Yep, absolutely. Well, as usual, I could say so much more about it, but we don't want this to be three or four hours. I just loved it. It was so, so fun. Yeah. Well, I made a lot of mistakes to give you opportunity to cut. So we'll stop talking about the book, but Ruby, again, just thank you for introducing this book to us. And my 10 year old Lucy told me that she gets to read it. I had to go make sure that she had it so I could still have it during this. Mike (45:34.753) Yeah. I've already we're way too long. Mike (45:44.694) Thanks. David (45:56.383) recording, so she's gonna love it too, so thank you. Mike (45:58.987) Yeah. Yeah, she will. I she does. It's really good book. It is a really great book. And, you know, we have to shout out to Cece Bell for responding to kids' letters, even if it's a whole class. she sent us El Defo tattoos. David (46:19.76) And. David (46:23.734) That's awesome. Mike (46:25.046) So you had a super El Dejo on your arm? Yeah, like a week there was just El Dejo on my arm. It was great. David (46:31.154) so like the Sharpie, it wasn't permanent. Great. Mike (46:36.01) Yeah, right. But it hurt a lot less. Yeah, it did. Not that I would know. Not that you would know. You've never gotten a tattoo. You're too young. David (46:37.122) Come on! Yes, cost a lot less. What? Mike (46:48.694) Fair enough. Maybe when you go in the Navy. You have to make it, you gotta make it longer than four days though. I think we need to cut him off here. Whoa, I'm cut off. David (46:49.142) I am too. Hahaha! David (47:02.892) She's talking with Ruby who's still in the Navy and probably will be for life. And you'll cut that out. Mike (47:09.578) Okay, we need to cut both of you off. And we need to... So wrapping up... David (47:16.481) Mm-hmm. Mike (47:18.252) thank you, C.C. Bell for a wonderful book. We really loved it. And thank you for being so awesome. And thank you for responding to my email. And thank you for the confidence boost of telling me I have better handwriting than you still appreciate that. Pretty cool. David (47:23.252) Absolutely. David (47:38.316) That's pretty awesome. Mike (47:39.916) Yeah. So guess that's it. That was a good place to cut. Well, thanks for having me on the show. Well, you're welcome. We love having you on the show. It's the first time. All right. David (47:43.906) That's it. Yep. Thanks for being on the show. Well, wait, we talk about our next one at all? guess that's only when we're deciding. Mike (47:57.857) What's up? David (47:58.956) Do we talk about our next book? Or should we? Perfect. Mike (48:01.204) We did not, but I don't think we need to. Because we do know what we're doing next. Yeah. David (48:06.73) that's right. The trope is when we're trying to figure out what we're doing next. Okay. Awesome. Mike (48:11.68) Yeah. So, but yeah, thanks again for being here with us. Thanks for having me on the show. We've had a lovely time discussing this book with you and having you on the show. I've had a lovely time being on the show and discussing this book with you. Awesome. David (48:29.736) And Ruby, got to say that, you we've had, you're our third guest. You're definitely in the top five if we were to rank them. Mike (48:36.364) You will always be in the top five. I better be. David (48:40.642) If this would Ruby, if this would be Olympics, you meddled. OK, you got a No doubt. Indeed. I got pewter, think, when I was in the Olympics, but that's OK. Mike (48:46.058) yay! Yeah, absolutely. Gold, bronze, or silver? Whichever one you want. I'll take gold either. Mike (48:57.482) Yeah. and if you want to check in with us, you can email us at David (49:07.19) dadsonbooksatgmail.com. Mike (49:10.996) or you can find us on ElFacebookO or what's the other one? David (49:18.207) LXO. Mike (49:19.964) LXO and L Instagramo. David (49:21.13) Yeah. Instagramo. Yeah, which is Spanish for the Instagram. Mike (49:26.378) Yes. Check us out on the grams. Shush. And see, we're out. David (49:30.752) What's up with the grams? David (49:36.226) Y'all are frozen. When you're frozen, do you hear me? Mike (49:40.224) think stopping would be a good... We lost you there. Hang on. David (49:40.803) Oh my gosh, it's a great freeze. got to picture that before it goes away. Don't go away. Don't go away. went away. It went away. The frozen the frozen that y'all were. Mike (49:47.489) Way, where?