[0:00:06] Dr Viviana Coles: The biggest issue that I see facing modern couples is that they are sacrificing their intimate connections to be able to be productive and efficient in the rest of their lives.

[0:00:21] Crystal Ware: Welcome to the Get Clear with Crystal Ware podcast where we get clear on our goals, own our worth, and learn to be the CEOs of our own lives. I'm your host, Crystal Ware, lawyer and former Fortune 500 corporate leader who found the confidence to say goodbye to a lucrative career and start my own business. Now I'm opening up the playbook and sharing everything I've learned to get you there faster. It may not be easy, but it will always be worth it because you are made for more. So put on your big girl pants, jump on board, and let's reach for the stars. Are you ready to get clear? Hey, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to get clear with crystal ware Coles is joining us. We talk so much about happiness and life and love and career, and love is a big part of that as well. What we have going on at our house, at our relationships, our interpersonal relationships, all of that is so vital to our happiness and our well being and then our ability to perform in our jobs and everything else that we're doing. So I'm really excited to have Dr. Viviana Coles here with us. She is the president and lead psychotherapist at her private practice here in Houston, where, you guys know, I also live. She is also the president of the National Sex Therapy Institute. She holds a bachelor's in psychology and master's and doctoral degrees. So that is why she is a true and real doctor for you guys.

[0:01:59] Crystal Ware: Since 2003, she has worked exclusively with couples and individuals, experience emotional and physical intimacy issues, and built up her practice around all of that. So she has deep, deep, deep experience to share with us. But what is also really exciting is that she has been featured as a marriage and intimacy expert on seasons nine through 14 of the hit show Married at First Sight. If you guys haven't seen that, it's very interesting. So check it out. And she does a great job. So today she's bringing all of that for us and all the questions that you guys have about how to have a thriving relationship and intimacy with your partner. So welcome to the show, Dr. Viana.

[0:02:47] Dr Viviana Coles: Thank you so much for having me, Crystal. Another local htown girl. This is so exciting to get to get to talk to somebody else who really understands what it's like to be in a big, small city.

[0:02:57] Crystal Ware: Yeah, right. Exactly.

[0:02:59] Dr Viviana Coles: Everybody knows exactly right.

[0:03:00] Crystal Ware: And I know you're also local, so it's really interesting because Houston has really grown up around us. I mean, it's always been a big city, but it's just exploded in the last 20 years. It's just crazy.

[0:03:14] Dr Viviana Coles: So I have my private practice, houston Relationship therapy. And it's always been based out of the height, and the height has changed so much in the past 20 years. Just in the past five years. But, yeah, I love Houston. I'm such a fan. I can't imagine moving anywhere else. And you know what's funny is people will stop me when I'm out and about, and they'll be like, I didn't know you were in Houston. I guess they all assume if you're on TV, you live in La. No, I'm in Houston. This is it. My whole family is here. My husband's from here. His whole family is here.

[0:03:49] Crystal Ware: So, yeah, I talk about that all the time because I love the mountains, and I love being outdoors, and, you know, like, June through September are not that great for outdoors experiences. And I keep telling myself that our fans and air conditioning, that's what you got to live by.

[0:04:10] Dr Viviana Coles: It's like, if it's the opposite, right? So we'll be inside in the summer, and everybody else who has those beautiful mountains has to be inside during the winter. It's just a trade off.

[0:04:21] Crystal Ware: Exactly. But it is a great place to live and work, and I couldn't imagine my whole family is here too. I couldn't imagine. So I want to start because I have so many questions for you to get today, and I know we don't have endless amounts of time. How did you get into therapy, and what kind of drove you to want to work in this field?

[0:04:47] Dr Viviana Coles: It was a pretty straight line for me. I'm very fortunate. I've always been very driven. Sometimes I get blinders on and I just go. But what happened is, in my junior year of high school, I was speaking to the college advisor, and she asked me, okay, what are you going to study? And I said, I have no idea. She's like, well, what do you like to do? I'm like, I don't know. She's like, no, you have to tell me. You have to help me with this, right? And I said, Well, I love to talk. And she's like, I know. I've seen your report cards. It's always, you love to talk. And I said, I love to talk, but that's I mean, I don't know.

[0:05:26] Dr Viviana Coles: She goes, what do you like to talk about? I said, oh, I love to talk to my friends. They're always calling me. I was one of the few people with, like, a steady boyfriend at the time. So they're always asking me about relationship stuff, and they tell me about their issues with their families. And I said, but that's not a job. She's like, yes, it is. That is a job. Take psych 101 and Sociology 101 as soon as you get to school and see what happens. And I was hooked. My first psych class, I was just like, this is so fascinating. And then from then on, I actually went really quickly through college I was very fortunate. I took like 18 to 24 hours per semester because I knew I still had so much more schooling to do. I knew I was going to get my Masters in my family. It was known that you had to get your doctorate if you were going to go for something you go for as high as you can, and I was all in on that.

[0:06:24] Dr Viviana Coles: So I finished college in three years at Southwestern University in Georgetown, Texas, just north of Austin, and then I went straight to Fort Lauderdale and did my Master's in marriage and family therapy and my doctorate in marriage and family therapy. And I moved back here as soon as I could because I had finished all of my doctoral classes, but I still needed to do my project and that was something I could do remotely. When I was in Fort Lauderdale, I had some extra time. I did have like a part time job and actually I had like three or four internships. I guess I'm starting to realize as I talked this out, I was very busy. I've always been very busy, but I love it. And when you're doing what you love, it doesn't feel like work. So I got my certification as a sex therapist on the side while I was getting my Master's. And I didn't know that it was going to become such a big part of my professional identity, but as soon as I moved back to Houston and I put it on my business card, everyone was lining up to see me. And that would have been amazing, except I was like seven months pregnant with our first and so I ended up very quickly taking on my first intern. And from then on, it was like I'm bringing in on another associate and another one. And then Houston relationship therapy just kept growing and growing and we became known for couples and sex therapy. That's what we do to this day. Anything having to do with relationships and sex and intimacy, that's what we focus on.

[0:08:03] Crystal Ware: Wow. Well, I've got to jump in there and say, first of all, 18 to 24 hours at a time. I mean, I thought I was a go getter. I graduated in undergrad in three and a half years and I could never have imagined 24 hours at one time. So power to you.

[0:08:25] Dr Viviana Coles: I'm a morning person, so I was taking those classes all day long from 08:00 in the morning on. And the truth is, I did sacrifice the quintessential college experience because for me, college was actually college and I I wouldn't change a thing, honestly. But doing it in three years, you are going to miss out on something. But I have definitely made up principles.

[0:08:53] Crystal Ware: Yeah, well, it's all about balance. I mean, that's what I talk to people about pretty regularly is it's about balance. And we talk to our kids about this now. It's like discipline equals freedom. I mean, why did I go to law school? Because I was sitting there studying at my kitchen table when other people were out. I didn't miss out on all the going out, but I was too close.

[0:09:17] Dr Viviana Coles: To Austin to really miss out on all of it. But I was able to stay away when I needed to. You're absolutely right. There is this sense of if you are disciplined now. I just remember making that beeline straight towards graduation changed everything for me. I was able to move back home earlier than maybe others would have. I remember thinking, as soon as I get back home, I'm able to open up a practice, and because I have my doctorate, I'm able to charge more, people automatically know that I have more expertise. And I do remember thinking, even if I hadn't already planned that I was going to get my doctorate, I remember graduating from my master's and thinking, how do people feel competent enough at this phase, which is the terminal degree, for psychotherapy, to open up their own practice? So I'm really glad that I did get my doctoral degree. I feel like that really catapulted me into a different place with my confidence, and that has really saved me from a lot of, I think, trials and tribulations as a new entrepreneur.

[0:10:26] Crystal Ware: Yeah. So we're going to go where the conversation is leading us and that we'll get back on track. I always have to say, oh, I've got all my notes here, and we've got to get to these questions, but sometimes it's best to go naturally.

[0:10:37] Dr Viviana Coles: This is unscripted.

[0:10:38] Crystal Ware: Okay. Absolutely. And that makes me wonder, knowing that you have kids of your own, so if you had to choose for them, obviously we should not and cannot do that, but if you had to choose for them, would you want them to experience more freedom, peace Corps or you're abroad or anything else mixed in there? Or if they ask you, mom, what should I do? Would you prefer that they powered through like you did?

[0:11:08] Dr Viviana Coles: So let me go back. You said we can't choose for them. I am absolutely trying to groom my kids.

[0:11:15] Crystal Ware: Well, yes, jedi mind trick them 100%.

[0:11:19] Dr Viviana Coles: For somebody to take over our businesses and, like, yes, please. And they've already told me, like, no, I don't know that I'll do that, and I don't lose hope. I would say I'm just one of those people who says, there's so much time for the fun. Just stay on course while you can, because once you fall in love, once you have children, if you decide to, once you have a job that possibly gives you those golden handcuffs, your opportunities to really focus on just one thing. And I don't know, I guess there's pluses and minus to each one, but I would say stay focused while you're in school, because if you leave and this is just what I've noticed with so many people that I've known is once you leave school, it's very hard to go back. Now, I will say I think I do have one regret from school, and that's that I did not do a semester abroad. I would have loved to do that. I actually was in a really long term, committed relationship at the time and didn't feel like I wanted to do that. And of course, I had so many school credits that I could be taking instead, so I rationalized it that way. But I would love for my kids to do a study abroad program. I think that would just be such an enriching thing for them. But other than that, I would say, no, stay with you when you're in school. Stay focused, and then you can really shape yourself in a more social way after school.

[0:12:54] Crystal Ware: Yeah, that's excellent. I mean, there are so many avenues and things that you can do. And I do think there is also a benefit to getting out into the workforce, having some income, and then having the ability, and especially with where you went with things right away as an entrepreneur and starting your own practice, you just have the ability to tailor your schedule to what works for you, to take two weeks off if you want to. And these are the kind of questions, Dr. V, that we need either parents, ourselves, or the guidance counselors to be asking. Right. Because the kind of job that you choose, while obviously you're not locked into it for life, but it does kind of usher in the kind of lifestyle that you could have. And nobody was certainly having the conversation with me or talking about if you're a nurse practitioner, a nurse at a hospital, you can work 312 hours shifts, which is great if you want to be a mom, and all the other kind of things around that. So I think it's really interesting for people to clear and see and why I like to bring on people with all different backgrounds and all different kind of careers so people can see the opportunities that really exist, that are out there.

[0:14:09] Dr Viviana Coles: My parents ware actually really great examples of kind of different sides of the spectrum. My mom was a stay at home mom, and she ran the household. And my dad had multiple businesses. He's a chiropractor. He owns radio stations. He owns real estate. He's always had multiple sources of income. And for him, the reason he wanted me and really encouraged me to get my doctorate and to start my own practice was because he felt like flexibility and being the owner of your time are so valuable. And I remember thinking, well, I want to go into private practice because I know I want to have a family, and I know I want to be available for them. Now, I realize it wasn't just to be available for my family, but it was to be able to handle to be a psychotherapist full time. A lot of us experience burnout and fortunately not working for another practice or a clinic or an agency has afforded me the ability to have done this now for 20 years and not experience burnout. Because I get to say day in and day out, no block off those 2 hours, no block off this, I'm going to go have lunch, I'm going to go for a walk, I'm going to stay home. And that's not something that everybody gets to do. So I'm glad that even though I didn't know why, that I chose it for that reason.

[0:15:36] Crystal Ware: So in school, do they talk to you guys about that? About the burnout factor and the kind of like bringing on of other people's problems and how that can impact you?

[0:15:46] Dr Viviana Coles: Absolutely. And they highly encourage us to get our own therapy while ware studying to become therapists, it's important to know what the experience is like from both sides of the couch, so to say. But they don't ever really well, maybe things have changed now, but from what I've heard, not so much. They don't ever really talk about the business side of things. They kind of just assume people will figure that out on their own. I imagine that you could take a business course. Right. But that is probably the most stressful part about being a therapist, is that you're juggling the business side of being a therapist, the business side of being in other people's business. Right. And that's the most stressful part because I know for me, I learned boundaries very early on. I learned how to make sure that I wasn't getting sucked in into my clients lives and the hours up and I'd have to be present for the next person. So I had to quickly shift over. It's not the easiest thing, but I can tell you that's something I've never really had problems with. I can count on it maybe one hand how many times I have felt like, oh my gosh, I need like ten more minutes between sessions because I'm not ready to take on the next one over time. You get very used to like, okay, this person deserves all of me, so I need to get it together very quickly to transfer over to my next session.

[0:17:18] Dr Viviana Coles: And that is one of the reasons that we do 50 minutes sessions, is so that we can have time to decompress, so that we can be available really emotionally and physically for the next person. So yeah, it is something that they teach, but it's not something that they dwell on. But there are lots of resources for therapists to be able to really focus on their own mental health while they're helping others.

[0:17:45] Crystal Ware: Absolutely. Well, and it's the same that women in general have a hard time taking that time away, making the space for themselves, caring for yourself. And why do the airlines tell you put your oxygen mask on first because you're just not going to be there for everybody. And of course, it's all over. There's articles about it, you can go to therapists workshops and all that, but I don't think you can talk about it too much because I really see so many people in my daily life, my friends, my family, other people nearby not doing it. And it's just not selfish. It's not you have to do that to make sure that you're capable strong on it for everybody else.

[0:18:37] Dr Viviana Coles: And the themes and the types of issues that you're working with as a therapist can also drastically impact the way that you feel about your life at the end of the day. Fortunately, so far, the experience has been that I'm able to really be grateful for what my clients are sharing with me. And if I ever do bring it home, it's to then tell my husband how grateful I am that he does things differently. Just to be very honest with you, there are times where I get into the car after a long day and I'm like, I love you so much. Thank you so much for being you. I'm really hungry, please. But it is to let him know, like, wow, gosh, things could be so much worse because people do mistreat each other so badly. What I'm trying to say is the subject matter that I'm seeing with couples is actually promoting health in my life. Whereas I think that there are some people in the therapy field that are dealing with issues and dilemmas that have such a deep impact in their own lives that then they can bring that home and it creates depression or at least depressive feelings at home. And I'm very fortunate that I just love my clientele. I love the issues that we're dealing with. And so for me, every day, it's a fun challenge. Not that what they're going through is fun, but that it's a challenge as a professional. And they appreciate, I guess, my positive outlook and my ability to dive in.

[0:20:23] Crystal Ware: Yeah, well, having the ability to be positive when things are not seemingly positive and trying to look for those even glimmers of hope in things. If we could all do a better job at that, we would be so much better off in general.

[0:20:42] Dr Viviana Coles: It's funny you say that, because when I was on the show and people, I would get DMs about my affect when I was on camera talking to these couples about very serious things, but I would almost be smiling through it. And some people were like, wow, that's really weird. You're talking about something really sad, but you're kind of smiling. I'm smiling because what I don't want them to do is think that I feel sorry for them because they're in such a terrible place and they're never going to get out. My affect is often a reflection of what I want people to feel, not so much what I'm feeling at the moment. And that's just a tool that I use in therapy all the time, where we're going to use humor, we're going to break the ice a little bit. We're going to de escalate. It doesn't mean that I'm happy for them. It just means that, like, hey, guys, you're in a different place. Like, you're literally in therapy. That's amazing. You're like, you are not alone. You've sought out help. Congratulations. Snaps, right?

[0:21:51] Dr Viviana Coles: But a lot of it is also that I know if you can smile, and we've psychologically and physically, there are studies that have shown that when you smile, it changes the way that your brain is experiencing something. So I'm a big fan of smiling. It's like Buddy the Elf. I love smiling. Smiling is my favorite.

[0:22:10] Crystal Ware: Yes. Well, and anybody that's listening, I will tell you I've heard the exact same thing. Dr. V. I'm a marathon runner, and it's one of the things that I've learned that when you're in the later half of the marathon and believe me, if you've ever run with me, my friends will tell you what a grouch I am. But I have to remind myself to smile because the physical action of smiling will start doing things in your body that I'm not going to recite medically. But it does work. It may only be briefly in a marathon, but it does work. And I have practiced the same thing. So I love that you're using that and trying to subtly give that to people who are maybe feeling less than happy, because ultimately, that's what people want. I mean, people want to be happy. That's why they come to you.

[0:23:00] Dr Viviana Coles: Yeah, they want hope. They want to feel like there's hope to their situation. Okay. That said, I have absolutely cried in sessions. I can feel empathy, and I can feel their pain, and I can feel their hurt, but it's not about me. You don't go to therapy to have your therapist crying. But I can also, on one hand, I can count over the past 20 years how many times that's happened. I mean, I'm human. It happens.

[0:23:27] Crystal Ware: Yeah, absolutely. Well, some of the specific questions that I wanted to dive in, because a lot of the people listening, we have a lot of type A type personalities, hard hitting, career driven people achievers that really want so much out of life. And what I have seen a lot is when people you have two people like that that get put together and there's so much focus on career and then maybe you throw kids in or parental issues, aging parents, other things like that. The time and energy spent on the relationship itself can dwindle or feel like it's just so much extra. We have all these other things going on. So what are some of the top things that you recommend to real type A, high achieving people in couples so that they can work on having the best relationship. And maybe I hate to say this, but, like, in an efficient way, right. Where time is of a premium, what are small things that people can be doing and investing to make sure that they do put their relationship first and that they do really want to work on it and try to have they're 100% in everything else of their life? Right. And sometimes the relationship is suffering a little bit, but they want that. What can they do to get there?

[0:24:55] Dr Viviana Coles: So you already said one of them, which is you need to put your relationship first. I don't care how many kids you have, how many businesses you have, how many homes you have, how many dependents you have, all of that. It is so important to put your relationship first. You are stronger as a team, you can conquer more as a team. You can work through things better as a team. So it's so important to invest in your primary relationship, more so than any other one. And that's a controversial thing that some people are like, oh, but what about kids? What about kids? Your kids are going to benefit from that, whether it's directly or indirectly. I can't tell you how many clients have experienced emotional and physical intimacy issues because they had no clue what healthy relationships looked like from their parents. They felt like their parents loved each other, but they never saw it. Or whatever they did see was unhealthy, and they didn't have any representation. So if you put your relationship first and you invest in healthy intimacy with your partner, your kids are going to benefit from it. There's no substitute for that. They can see it on TV.

[0:26:13] Dr Viviana Coles: They probably think it's fake. They can see it in an aunt and an uncle. But if they don't see it with you because you're focused on being super mom or super dad, then they're going to experience that as well and it will trickle down. So that's one of them. The other thing is schedule time for intimacy. You have to schedule. If you live a busy life, it is not just going to be handed over to you. I can't tell you how many times I've had clients who say we only have fun, spontaneous intimacy when we're on vacation, and some people will spend thousands of dollars just to get away so that they can have intimate moments together because that's the only time it ever happens. That is a shame. It's not going to get you where you need to be ultimately. And even if you can afford to, it's probably something that your relationship will not withstand. So make sure you're scheduling that time. And if you don't like to schedule, maybe your partner does, maybe they don't put it on your calendar. Maybe they just keep it on theirs. Or if you really do like to schedule what your partner doesn't, keep it on your calendar, hidden from your partner, but get to a place where you know, we are going to have this time, and I know I can mentally and physically prepare.

[0:27:32] Dr Viviana Coles: I'm not going to eat that salsa. I'm not going to take my sleeping meds or whatever it is that people do. I'm going to plan for it. So there's that. And then the other thing is get sex on the brain somehow. Get sex on the brain in a way that is appropriate for you and your morals and values. So I tend to recommend that people read erotic literature. There are so many different ways to consume erotica. It doesn't have to be visual porn. So erotic literature is a way to be able to get that guidance and kind of not be totally flailing. But if you're able to get some sexy thoughts and fantasies of your own, that is, I want to say, one of the best relationship savers. If you allow sexy thoughts in, even if it's only 20 minutes every other night, you're reading, you're thinking, you're fantasizing, that will help keep your low desire from really getting to you. And it'll keep your desire level at a better maybe level than if you don't.

[0:28:36] Crystal Ware: Well, since you mentioned that, I will bring up have you seen or talked to people about Lady Chatterley's Lover on Netflix?

[0:28:46] Dr Viviana Coles: I haven't watched it. There hasn't been a lot there. I tend to get a lot more about that sex life show.

[0:28:53] Crystal Ware: Oh my gosh. Even worse because I have three kids is sometimes we watch like an Avenger type movie on Netflix and on the adult profile. And it's right there up in front of her. And my kids are like, what is this sex life show? And they're boys and they're starting to get interest. So that brings up a whole nother.

[0:29:13] Dr Viviana Coles: It'S not for you, sweetheart.

[0:29:15] Crystal Ware: But when you want to talk about it, let's be open about it. But I will tell you, lady Chatterley's Lover was a book. It's a 1800 based on a book that was actually banned because of the sex scenes that were written in back then. So it was like the very now.

[0:29:33] Dr Viviana Coles: I have to read it.

[0:29:34] Crystal Ware: I read it years ago. But the adaptation that just came out on Netflix, I guess like three or four months ago, it's not a lot of sex. It's a small amount of sex. But it's the build up to everything in there. When I started watching it, I was like, I knew my husband wasn't going to be into it, but 100%. It was like, oh boy. So ladies, if you don't want to watch or you're not a big reader, this could be a substitute for that, to get sex on the brain because it was very sexy. Very.

[0:30:09] Dr Viviana Coles: So this is what's great about erotic, I guess. Entertainment. And the way that we're talking about it, it can be visual. It can be those books that we get at Walgreens, right? The romance novels. But what's great about it is the build up. I can't tell you how many men have told me after I asked them to start incorporating erotica into their nightly routines with their wives for about 20 minutes whenever possible, they said, I had no idea that foreplay could be so hot because they hadn't experienced it. So now they're like, no wonder people no wonder women are always talking about foreplay. To be aroused and mentally stimulated for that long before getting physically stimulated is like, it is the hottest thing ever. I'm like you're welcome.

[0:30:55] Crystal Ware: And we're disadvantaged. I think I'm not the expert here, obviously, everybody, but I think women are disadvantaged because of what you're saying. Women are not thinking about sex as much, whereas if men are thinking about it, maybe they've already built themselves up all day thinking about it, whereas women are like, just getting ready for bed and you're like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on here? I'm not ready for all this.

[0:31:18] Dr Viviana Coles: That's exactly right. That is the discrepancy that I talk about a lot on TV, in my interviews. I will tell people we could learn something and look, this isn't about every man and this isn't every woman. But in general, what I've noticed about men is that they're able to allow sexy thoughts in and process them out. And I think for women, what we don't do as well is we tend to SWAT sexy thoughts away because the context isn't appropriate. So we're cooking a meal and it's like a sexy thought comes in or you're watching something and you SWAT it away because you think, well, my kids are here ware not talking about having sex. We're talking about having sexy thoughts. And I think for a lot of women, they think sexy thoughts is A and sexual behavior is Z. You don't have to go from A to Z every time you have A. You can go from A to B back to A. You can stay in A, you can go A to Z. But that's where I think we mess up as we start thinking about sexy thoughts as the beginning of a sexual experience. And I don't think men do. I think men allow sexy thoughts just to sit and then they go away. They process them or they go away.

[0:32:39] Dr Viviana Coles: And so I do think if we could learn anything from men, I'm sure we could learn a lot of things from men and from us. But it's that you can and should entertain sexy thoughts and it doesn't mean you're doing anything inappropriate.

[0:32:55] Crystal Ware: Wow. Well, I think that is our takeaway number one for today, is that if we can all spend some time thinking and allowing the natural occurrence about a sexy thought or maybe even intentionally having a sexy thought about our mate in passing, that that could be a building block that we could start with and work on that. I think that I had not thought about that and I just try to be really intentional in my relationship all around and I think that I can always improve on things. So that I think is going to be a takeaway for me is just to see if you can kind of shift the brain very subtly to allow that to build and not shy away from that.

[0:33:47] Dr Viviana Coles: Here's the thing. If you are feeling shame or guilt or any sort of negativity creeping up when you think about putting your sex life as a priority, maybe not top two. Right? There's lots going on in life and so top two at all times is probably not realistic but like top five I think is more realistic. And I think it allows for you to be a very well rounded partner and a well rounded human because sexuality exists whether you're in a partnership or not. And if you can do that I think overall your experience of a well rounded life will be enhanced.

[0:34:33] Crystal Ware: Yes. And that's again, ultimately what we're all looking for. No doubt. So when it coles to very kind of like specific idea driven, what do you see that parents with young kids that are having more intimacy versus not? Is there any trends? Is there anything that you see that differentiates or how can people that may be in that season of life make more effort to grow? Because I'm sure that's probably one of the more difficult times.

[0:35:22] Dr Viviana Coles: It's definitely one of our difficult times in anyone's life and a lot of divorces that tend to happen within the first few years of having a child. So yes, there's a lot of that. But the couples that are succeeding at making sure that their intimate connection remains after having a kid is that they work as a team. They work as a team to allow the priority of the relationship, the prioritization of the relationship to occur on a weekly basis. So they're the ones who ware saying hey, let's plan date night. Hey, will you put the kids to bed while I go shower? Hey. I mean they're like they're doing this whole tag team and dividing and conquering all the time or as much as possible and they're not overloaded one way or the other. They tend to more evenly distribute the chores and tasks so that they can prioritize their sex life. The other thing that I think healthier couples are doing with kids healthier couples with kids are doing is I think that they are making sure that they are giving each other enough time alone to decompress from the day. So whether that's a 20 minutes walk outside, whether that is that 20 minutes bath while you get the kids this day or maybe you're going out with friends one night to be able to feel like you're an individual and to tap into your individuality I think is a gift. Well I think it's a right but it's also a gift within a relationship that your partner can either promote or really hinder. And when they promote it, it is just a game changer for the way that you experience your partnership. And then you want to connect with somebody who respects you, who honors you, who is promoting your ability to feel good about yourself and to do things that make you feel better, whether it's self care or fitness or social life, whatever it is. And that's what those couples are doing.

[0:37:36] Dr Viviana Coles: They're really honoring the individual, but they're also working as a team whenever possible.

[0:37:40] Crystal Ware: Wow, guys, I'm taking a lot of notes here, so I'm going to share this back out, and you should definitely save this and listen to it over and over, send it to your partner. I mean, these are just such good pieces of advice and things that I definitely strive to do, whether it's allowing somebody to go to the gym, going to the sauna. My husband, he does the morning time with the kids. My kids have to be at school early. He does all of that. And I usually work out a little bit later because I need more sleep. But that is just really good advice, just supporting each other. And I think that you started by saying working as a team and supporting each other, prioritizing each other, and then again, you're supporting each other by allowing you each to do things. And I experience that. When COVID happened and everybody's home and my kids were home, that was a little harder. There was not the decompression stage of commuting 20 minutes home. And I had to get even more intentional about how I could let my own stress fall away and not let it impact how I behaved with the kids or with my husband. I'm sure you've seen it. I'm sure there was a lot of outfall in your patience, but gosh, that was a very difficult time.

[0:39:10] Dr Viviana Coles: It was a really difficult time for the Coles, who were living life a little too individually, where they were dividing and conquering, but always dividing and conquering. Then they all of a sudden are in each other's space and they're thinking, wait a minute, I can now have expectations that you help, but then they don't know how to do that. And they thought, well, now that we're together, we should be doing everything together. Now that you're not at work or away for school or whatever, now you can help with all of these things. But it wasn't a discussion that people had. They just assumed that their partnership would just adjust to what was going on right in front of them. And I think a lot of couples really struggled because what had been working for them, they thought they could not adapt that to what was going on because now we're together, we should do everything together, and we should split everything half in half because you ware physically able to help. Well, that was a whole nightmare for so many couples. None of the couples were like, you know what? I really like you. I really like talking to you. I like being around you. I like how things are when we're actually able to be around each other more. So a lot of Coles did really well, actually. I would say the majority of the couples that I was working with at the time, they were doing really well.

[0:40:45] Dr Viviana Coles: They were actually enjoying each other.

[0:40:48] Crystal Ware: Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, it's hard to my husband and I were just talking about that the other day, that we spend so much time with our kids and sometimes for ourselves, that's where we've got to say, like, guys, go watch a movie on your own. Let us do something separately because we're sitting there and we love it. That's what we do enjoy doing. But sometimes it's a lot when I look around, how other people have their houses situated, and even what my parents did with me and my husband's parents did with him, I feel like we spend more time with our kids after work than a lot of people. And we've been talking about putting a little bit different boundaries on that.

[0:41:36] Dr Viviana Coles: I'm glad you brought that up. Don't want to forget earlier you asked me, like, what couples were doing, who had kids and what they were doing well, and that was going to be one of them that I forgot to mention is that they set boundaries around their beds, around their bedrooms, around their bathrooms, and around their time. So they will have adult time, designated adult time, or you must knock before you enter this room. Some think it's terrible to put locks on their bedroom doors. That is absolutely a falsehood. Having boundaries for your private space is something that you want to teach your children to have. They should not feel like there is nowhere in their house that there's privacy. Right. They need to experience that autonomy over their bodies, especially when they're learning about consent and what's healthy and what isn't. So I think it's a great thing to have to say, you cannot just walk into our bathroom. It's so funny. There's all these gifs and stuff out there where people are talking about how their kids are just in the bathroom while they're using it. And I can understand a toddler, right? That happens. But that can quickly turn into a 5678 clear old and a nine year old who are much more conscious of what they're seeing, walking in on things that maybe they shouldn't be walking in on.

[0:43:08] Crystal Ware: We're all adults here, so I have three boys, and that's one of the things I had to really realize with lady time of the month. Even if they could mentally understand, do they really understand what's going on? And that's an uncomfortable conversation to have with kids under the age of ten, especially boys. And so that's when I really woke up to the okay, we need some more boundaries here because I'm pretty good at boundaries, probably less so with some of that. The kids are always taking a bath in my bathroom, and if I build another house, I'm like, we're going to have a Jacuzzi tub in you all's bathroom. Because they really like to take leisurely bath. I'm like, you guys got to get out of my bathroom. Yes. Especially because I'm the only girl here. So I'm like, there's things that I'm doing or whatever. I had the question the other day about thong underwear and like, what ware those?

[0:44:08] Dr Viviana Coles: Well, if you keep walking in, you're going to find out.

[0:44:11] Crystal Ware: Exactly. But that's such important information. So I wanted to move into a top question that I had when I pulled some people about you coming on. And I have a feeling of what you might say, but I'm going to ask anyway. People always want to know how much sex is normal. And I elongated that word because it's quote, unquote normal. What is the normal?

[0:44:47] Dr Viviana Coles: Exactly? So it's interesting. I do talk about this in my book The Four Intimacy Styles. And I think that the main reason I always want to know as a therapist, I always want to know why something is important to someone. The why is so much more important than the what. And so what I hear when someone says, how much sex is normal? How many times should we be having sex? Again, quote, unquote, having sex. And typically that means penetrative sex or intercourse. And what I hear them really asking is, are we okay? Are we messing up? Are we on track? Are we okay? I would have to say from a very high level view, everybody has to determine that for themselves. But from a practical sex therapist place, I recommend around two sexual experiences per week whenever possible, and not either or either PNB.

[0:45:57] Dr Viviana Coles: But it doesn't have to include intercourse. If you want to try oral or anal or digital or toys or a shower or massage, all of that counts. So it doesn't have to look one way. But I do think two sexual experiences per week or sensual experiences per week is going to keep you on track. Everybody's different. Some people are like, two, that's nothing. And other people are two, oh my goodness, it's twice a month, whatever they're thinking. And everybody's different. But I would say if you can have a variety and try to engage in two sexual experiences per week, you'll probably be okay.

[0:46:41] Crystal Ware: That is helpful. I know that after a few cocktails, I've been known to ask my friends, because I'm just always curious myself.

[0:46:50] Dr Viviana Coles: What.

[0:46:50] Crystal Ware: You'Re doing in line?

[0:46:51] Dr Viviana Coles: You're comparing, right? You're comparing to see like, am I normal? Am I okay? Or if it's drastically more, you're like, how do you manage that? Right? But ultimately, it wouldn't matter if they said eight times or if they said one time you're going to do what works for you and your partner. You just are.

[0:47:13] Crystal Ware: So don't stress about it. As long as you're happy and healthy and everybody is satisfied.

[0:47:17] Dr Viviana Coles: Right, well, and here's the other thing. And a lot of women, and this is a whole other conversation, so I'll just dip in and dip right out, but maybe it'll be a teaser and we can do this again sometime. But I think a lot of women who are partnered with men are a little bit nervous or threatened by masturbation, their male partner masturbation. And the reason is that they think, well, gosh, if they're relying too heavily on masturbation, then they won't want to be with me. Or maybe they'll think I'm not holding up my end of the bargain or whatever, but I tell them studies have shown that the AMA, the American Medical Association, has recommended three to four Ejaculations per week, and that's for their prostate health. So if you don't want to be a part of every single Ejaculation experience, you need to be okay with them taking care of their own physical health through masturbation. So if that's what you're signing up for and you're like, no, I need to be there for every single one, just know you need to open up some time in your schedule because it's a lot.

[0:48:26] Crystal Ware: Yeah, health is wealth. So if it's needed for prostate, we cannot for the men listening. If you need to use that as a foundational reason of why you need to do something, I mean, I personally think it's just part of nature. I've never had an issue with that. But I think it is fascinating that it does also it's not just like a want. It is a physical health mechanism. It is a need to be at a certain level.

[0:49:04] Dr Viviana Coles: And I do think that women, we don't take care of our pelvic floor enough and orgasms can do that. So I'm fortunately, I'm a partner with I'm the resident intimacy expert for Bloomy. And Bloomy is a sensual and sexual care line and we have all sorts of products and everything, and all we do is talk about how your physiological health can be impacting your intimacy. And I feel like it's just important for everyone to know that, and especially women, that orgasms are so good for you in so many different ways. And making sure that you are taking care of your intimate skin is really important as well, especially for women, both internally and externally. And there's so many different things, so many different ways that we can go. But in other words, self care includes self touch.

[0:50:01] Crystal Ware: Yeah, absolutely. Well, that kind of leads into the next interesting question that I had, is whether or not you could share maybe a fun and interesting story that you've heard before. That may be an interesting sexual story, like something that may not be what the average person is thinking of. Well, that may open people up to a new experience.

[0:50:40] Dr Viviana Coles: Oh, okay, well that gives me some guidance because I'm like I hear so many things but I don't know that they're probably interesting to you all but not so much interesting to me just because I've been doing this for so long. But I would say I always think it's great to hear when a couple wants to try something new for the first time, especially after they've been together for a while. Like they're trying to spice things up, so to say. And so that's when they will. For instance, something that is pretty common within my field but maybe isn't as common for people to talk about is that a lot of people ware, enjoying, anal play, whether it's with toys or strap ons or fingers now more than ever. And I think that it's something that a lot of people have not talked about for the longest time, especially heterosexual couples, but they're really trying to enjoy all the different parts and points of pleasure of their bodies. And that's something that I'm really happy to hear because there are certainly safe ways, fun ways, exciting ways. It's a taboo thing, so it can get people really turned on because it kind of seems naughty and different, and especially when you're going to be with somebody for a super long time and you're struggling to find ways to keep things spicy, why not, in a very safe and consensual way, explore different body parts? So I really like that. I like that when people tell me, oh, we tried this, and it's both men and women, women on men and men trying it with women. And it's just an interesting thing to do because it does take a lot of vulnerability and trust and a lot of preparation. And I just love when all of those things come together and people can experience pleasure.

[0:52:33] Crystal Ware: So that is a really good segue into another question is what if one partner is into something more interesting? I'll say as that kind of word that the other partner is not really interested in. How do you bridge the gap and communicate on that to where both people are happy with how things are going?

[0:52:58] Dr Viviana Coles: So this is actually something that comes up quite a bit for me as a certified sex therapist is I will have couples come in specifically to discuss wanting to try different things that maybe one person isn't on board with. Not because the goal is to convince them of anything, but it's to help them to understand the why behind it. Again, I'm all about the why. So if somebody says I'd like to try this, I would recommend that their partner ask them why, what's important about it, what do they experience as a result of it? Why do they find that it's interesting, what do they think they'll get out of it? And that helps the other person feel a little bit more motivated to be interested in it. But just because you share that you want to do something, that does not mean that your partner owes you to try it. This is the beginning of a conversation. Anytime you're talking about doing anything that with your body and is vulnerable and is an expression of feelings, I think it's important to have multiple conversations about it, especially if you've never tried it before. But I have always found that when people start talking about these things, especially in a safe space like therapy, that they ultimately find that they land somewhere where both of them are comfortable. It doesn't have to be all one way or the other. You can find an alternative, which is something that we're really good at doing as sex therapists, is you can find an alternative that maybe has a similar impact or effect but doesn't have that. Maybe it's not all one way or the other.

[0:54:34] Crystal Ware: Yeah. No, that's great because there is hope. And I think that's probably what people are feeling when they get stuck in this middle ground is that there isn't any hope. If you want to do this and I don't want to do that, then where do we go from there? And is this going to build up resentment and animosity and break down the relationship? But if there's hope to find ways and talk about things to get to somewhere where everybody can I give an example? Yeah.

[0:55:03] Dr Viviana Coles: So something that I've been doing in the past year or two is there have been couples who have talked about possibly or maybe one partner says that they're interested in bringing in a third party into the bedroom just for an experience. It doesn't have to be for polyamory or for a long term relationship or anything like that, but where they just want to try and see what a threesome might look like a menage atwa, so to say. And one person is like, no. Or they both are like, we're interested, but what if oh no. Okay, so one of the alternatives that I've offered that has gone really well for them to try that is a lot safer both emotionally and physically, is that I will recommend that they go to a Boudoir photo shoot together. And especially the one that I tend to refer people to, it's 444 Boudoir. It's the number four and then 40 spelled out in the number four. Again, she's wonderful. She's in the Houston area, so yay. But she is so good about what I like about it is that her gaze, which is the camera gaze, the camera can feel like it's a third party even though you're not doing anything sexual, so to say obvious. You have to go look at her pictures and you'll see they're hot, they're really hot, but you're not doing anything like lewd or anything like that. But what's great about that is that you get the sense of what it would be like to have a third party in the room in a very appropriate way, in a non threatening way to your relationship. Or you can get behind the camera and see what it's like to see your partner looking at in these positions and things like that, almost like an outsider. So you're really catching on to how your imagination can change something as mundane is taking a picture into something that is a little bit more flirty, even more naughty, exciting. But that's just an example of something that I've recommended.

[0:57:08] Dr Viviana Coles: And people come back and they're like, oh my gosh, now we're looking at our photos and wow, we're hot. And yeah, if somebody were to, you know, we don't need anybody to see this because now we've seen what it's like. But that's just one way. Of course other people will be like, no, no, we definitely want to have a third and then totally go to a sex therapist to talk about it before you do it. This is not something you just stumble upon.

[0:57:30] Crystal Ware: Yeah. Especially in a long term relationship where there's a lot at stake, you want to think about what the bigger impact is going to be for everybody involved. So the last question that I kind of had in the broader sense that somebody submitted anonymously was why does it feel like kissing kind of fades or takes a backseat as the relationship grows? For a lot of people, it's a.

[0:57:58] Dr Viviana Coles: Shame because you're absolutely right and that's what everybody reports, is that kissing is something that making out. Right. Because lots of people peck. And we talk about that a lot in my office and in my book and in my online program, the Dr. Viviana Method for Intimate Reconnection. I think it's very important everyone should be kissing every day for 3 seconds at least once.

[0:58:21] Crystal Ware: Okay.

[0:58:22] Dr Viviana Coles: Because this whole peck thing, you can do that to the dog. Most people do it to the dog. Sometimes they do it to their family, to their parents, their kids. It's not special. It's just not. A peck is not special. Do a three second kiss, you won't be late to work. It'll show that you care. And that's at the very minimum. Right. I think that making out is something that if you can make out for like 5 minutes before you go into the restaurant, next time you're in the car and make out for 5 minutes, you're going to leave an impact on your partner. They all are going to be smiling at each other across the table. But the key is to do the making out or the tongue kissing or Frenching or even necking.

[0:59:09] Crystal Ware: Right.

[0:59:09] Dr Viviana Coles: We used to call it kissing, but it has to have a limit because if not, it will likely end up feeling pressure to move on to intercourse. Right. And I'm talking about kissing for the sake of kissing. So have a limit to where you're like, well, we have to leave by this point or I have to go to work or we have to go into the movie or whatever it is, have that. But I think you're right, a lot of people are missing out on the benefits and the excitement that comes from kissing and only kissing and not moving, not having it always turn into something more like intercourse or any sort of play.

[0:59:44] Crystal Ware: Wow, we have so much information to take away from this to help us move forward in our relationships, make the most of it, be at that a plus level, which I know is what most people want to be. At least most of the people tuning in are growth oriented, want the best out of life, want to maximize what life has to offer. And I think I have a page full of notes of what we talked about which ware just really practical, solid things that we can be doing to move things forward. So the last question that I would ask you so we can wrap it up is what do you think is the biggest issue facing modern couples?

[1:00:29] Dr Viviana Coles: The biggest issue that I see facing modern couples is that they are sacrificing their intimate connections to be able to be productive and efficient in the rest of their lives. And I truly believe that our intimate connections can strengthen our ability to be more productive and be more efficient. And if you can continue to prioritize your relationships, your primary relationships and your intimate connection, you will experience pleasure in all forms so much stronger, so much deeper, and for the long term, wow.

[1:01:16] Crystal Ware: That is something we all have to remember. We all have goals, we all have dreams, we all have things that we want to achieve as a person, as an individual. And we can do more, be more, be on a team together, achieve more, go further, go faster when we commit to being intentional, spending time together, spending time intimately. And that should be the reason alone, reason enough to do it, if not for all the other factors that come with it, like your happiness and your longevity and everything else. So that is really great. Dr. Viviana, thank you so, so much for all of this time that you shared with us today. I mean, we just really have so much to take away from this. It has been invaluable. So is there anything we should look for from you soon? Any new projects, any new interesting things coming out with you?

[1:02:14] Dr Viviana Coles: Always. I'm so fortunate. I have so many ideas when it comes to helping people with love issues, with dating, issues, with relationship issues, all of that. And I have a lot on the horizon this year. There are things that I can't talk about just yet and then some of the things that I can talk about are that my book The Four Intimacy Styles is available on my website. Dr. Viviana.com, you can get lots of free information on my website. As well as on my social media channels, which are all at Dr. Viviana. Spell out Dr. Viviana and then my online program. The Dr. Viviana Method for Intimate Reconnection is available for couples who really need a reset, who need to either reconnect intimately due to having never had that connection, or who want to get that back and just have not been able to do that. Maybe they're even ready to call it quits because they don't have that intimate connection. Try this first and head over to Dr.

[1:03:13] Dr Viviana Coles: Viviana.com to check all of those things out. But if you're on my newsletter, you get all of the new information and all of the updates first. All my announcements happen there first. And again, you can sign up for that by subscribing@viviana.com.

[1:03:28] Crystal Ware: Amazing. Well, everybody, I would run and do that right now because seriously, she's filled with so much guidance and information. She's honing and working on everything that she does on a daily and weekly basis because she is continuing to practice and to evolve and grow along with her client base and all the other business that she does, including on her work on TV. So check it out. Thank you again, Dr. V. For everyone else. I hope this brings you a lot of guidance, a lot of ideas on how to improve and keep things going because it is really a point, an important part of our life and our success and our happiness level. And so we really need to make sure that we're not focusing totally on our own lives and our own career, that we let go of our relationships and we need to make a priority on that. So we will keep bringing you all these amazing guests and all this amazing wisdom and guidance so that you can keep getting clear on what matters most. Thanks for listening in. If you loved what you heard, it would mean so much to me if you shared it with your friends. Tag us on social media so we can give you a big shout out. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on Apple podcasts. If you want more, head on over to the website where you can learn all about what we do to serve and support our entire community.

[1:04:56] Crystal Ware: Until next time, keep dreaming big and getting clear. You are made for more, so start living like it today.