Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious.
I'm Hamish, your host.
In each episode you'll hear from everyday people who've been through profound life
altering experiences, from life threatening illnesses or accidents, deep
existential crisis, addiction, or having to make life choices that have ultimately
brought them peace, connection and purpose.
They've all stared into the abyss, walked through the fire of their own personal
dark nights of the soul, and emerged from the other side transformed.
This podcast is for anyone going through an awakening, a time of massive change, or
questioning the
meaning of life.
You are not alone.
You can get through this.
I promise you life is more meaningful and beautiful on the other side.
Today we are talking with Rory.
Rory's kindly come to join us and share his awakening and the journey of his life
and what he's doing.
So hi Rory.
Thank you very much for joining us today.
Hi Hamish, thank you very much for inviting me and I'm really pleased to be
here because I love this topic of, or this feeling of sense of awakenings.
I like what you brought to that, bring to this because it's very much something that
we don't necessarily think of at the time around things that have kind of happened,
happening to us or...
or happened to us, or these words we use for life experiences and often just caught
up in the moment, whether it's a good moment or a bad moment or a difficult
moment, and then there's that reflective going, or what happened there?
And it's the idea, I like that idea of exploring it from a point of view of...
What can we learn, I guess, if that's the...
absolutely.
Cool, well let's start off.
What is your awakening?
What happened in your life that made you change, either have to change or realise
something needed to be different in your life?
Tell me about that process where things required you to change.
Wow, yes.
So around my early 20s, in fact it was going into my 20s, I was at a phase in my
life where I had, I felt like just before this point that happened for me, I felt
like, wow, I'm...
I'm experiencing an awakening.
I thought I was experiencing an awakening in a positive way because I'd come out of
school, I'd come out of understanding what I perceived myself to be, learning through
school and receiving results and going, I'm more of an artist, I'm more of a
creative kind of person.
I did have resentment for the way the grades at school said that, you know, this
is a particular type of intelligence and this is the only type of intelligence and
this is what you get to understand about the world and this is the focus, this is
what all of life's learnings are all about is how you can prove yourself in a
particular way and that was...
that I couldn't show up in an exam and recall that quickly.
And I was left feeling misunderstood around that process of not that I didn't
really care as such.
I didn't care that in a conscious way that that matters.
I just thought, what I didn't realise was I was choosing for it to teach me.
that that's the way I was, that I was not like that.
And I was, I was more of a, I'd say misfit, but someone that didn't really fit
into what society perceived as intelligent or normally communicative.
I didn't believe I was a communicator.
I didn't believe I was like assertive in that way in verbal communication, in
processing information.
And I just leaned into music.
I just became
had a love of music so I started to learn guitar and I just found a joy in playing
guitar over and over again and over and over and over again playing it, playing it
every day just because I just wanted to play guitar and saw myself, I guess I saw
myself wanting to wanting to be the best I could be at guitar because so that's what
I did and I went over and over and over again got fanatical with it.
And then I got into bands and out of bands and didn't know how to communicate my
ideas as such, but I just went along with it and was creative in bands and then they
sort of split up.
And then I kind of got into dance music and self -expression through dance.
And I didn't know what that was all about other than just, I loved doing it.
So I just went and did it.
Then it came to a head because there was a lot of...
sucked into kind of recreational drug use as well alongside it.
I didn't feel addicted to it, but at the same time it was there and it sort of
enhanced situations.
But what I didn't realise it was doing was changing my brain chemicals and getting me
used to that being the normal way to enjoy myself.
And so that in itself also led me to a crux in my life where as a breakup, I
didn't know how to explain my emotions.
and I didn't know how to communicate or I didn't automatically forgive.
I was a natural sage sort of personality that could just go away and just be
enjoying myself playing music.
And I didn't know how to, I just forgave the situation for what it was, but I
didn't really realise I wasn't, I wasn't forgiving myself at all.
And I just thought I was broken because I didn't know how to explain it.
I didn't know that that was the how to explaining it was one of the keys in which
was keeping it there or making it worse.
So I went into a period of psychosis at that point.
So going from this phase of, wow, the world is opening up and the world is
possibilities and learning about spirituality and going, I could like...
you know, focus on things and manifest things or meet people.
And I'm so excited about the rest of my life and what could be possible to hitting
rock bottom and thinking that I was broken and I didn't, I had a thread that I was
going to be okay because it wasn't, it was kind of almost felt like it was forced in
some way.
It wasn't like I was meant to become mentally ill as such.
just felt like at that point I didn't know how to get out of it.
And I knew that it was possibly possible to get out of, but I just thought it was
going round in a loop.
Is this my life now?
Have I broken my mind and my emotions?
And so therefore, that's where...
I went through a positive awakening of like, wow, what's going to be amazing,
what's possible to I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm broken and I don't know what to do.
So then, then luckily my mother had was, was very good at studying natural
medicines and things like that.
So she had learned reflexology at that point.
And so.
I had 14 weeks of reflexology and within a period of a moment where there was about a
week where I didn't sleep and my eye was flickering and I was zoning in and out of
trying to sleep here and there but not really falling asleep.
And that was the pinnacle moment where I didn't know what was gonna happen.
And then I was offered this treatment and...
went for it, started to relax, started to, I got worse before I got better in the
first few weeks, but then started to level out and started to relax.
My nervous system started to regulate and therefore within 14 weeks I was back to
smiling and happy again and wondering what, whether that was, what was going to
happen and then just had more like this idea.
I never got diagnosed with the psychosis and ever got diagnosed with PTSD, but I
can certainly say that I feel like from feedback from others and talking to others
and just studying health ever since then, that was the trigger.
That was the trigger to be awakening into understand wanting to understand the mind,
the body and health in general to see what else is possible to change.
And that's what I love about that phrase is.
What else is possible to change?
And that's been my life ever since.
So I would say that that's the most deep awakening that I've had ever since.
That's, that's, that's quite incredible.
So it, it, it began from not fitting that normal in school where it's all about IQ,
that is your intelligence.
and obviously that, that then for one of a better description that broke you.
and then it was just a case of just sort of going around wondering what to do.
and making sense of things slowly, but tell me a bit about.
bit more about your mom and that and what she was doing with you, the reflexology,
the all that kind of thing, because that that obviously is where you learn to
listen to your body and understand and things like that.
Yes.
Yeah, so.
Yeah, at that point I didn't know what it was going to be like.
I just knew that it was some kind of physical relaxing treatment where, and it
was, you know, she practiced running through the sequence.
She just learnt it.
So it was a good way for her to practice every week doing it.
Within the 14 weeks, I really, I really...
just just started to sleep it was like i was like instantly asleep by by by the
the first sort of five minutes of the treatment, each time at that point when I
got into being able to just let go, I was able to let go and just know that I was
safe I guess and that also that feeling of unconditional love for it just being there
for me.
I think that that was another major awareness of this process that happened
for me.
yeah so she she'd also been also been
into things like.
some herbal remedies and things like that in the past.
We tried out homeopathy and tried out herbal remedies and tried out many
different things for when I was struggling with things in school.
I was taken off, very, very young, I was taken off any colourings and additives.
for instance, that would have evidence of me kind of going hyperactive afterwards.
And it wasn't necessarily the sugar, but it was all the E numbers.
So she was really fascinated by all of that.
So I didn't have any too much processed foods.
It was all natural.
Sugar was still rife at that point through my childhood.
So it was actually...
After I went through that and I read a book called The Peaceful Warrior and that
book explains, it kind of throws in the idea that sugar is not useful for the body
and I was able to get, I thought, I wonder if that will help me.
So I off my own back at that point in my early 20s, going to mid 20s, I just off my
own back decided to...
cut out sugar to help with the healing process.
And it really did help as well.
So that was another thing that also helped me with my healing journey as it were
going coming out of that.
And yeah, so I was very thankful for that process.
It really helped me to go what else is possible to change.
And then I learned I immediately wanted to learn massage.
So at the age of
24, I studied anatomy, physiology and massage and became, started working full
time doing massage.
I did traditional Chinese massage, seated acupressure, Indian head massage.
And I really liked the chair massage when people have it in front of people.
So I've always been this kind of person that likes to do things that...
that's on the floor, on the ground level of just showing what something new to
think about or do rather than sort of...
How do I put it?
you know, going off on a tangent and only working with real, really specific people
that have heard of this really specific niche thing.
So I'd be like, what can I show the general public that would be useful right
now?
And that would be massage.
And it was, you know, in the mid early 2000s, where, where, yeah, we were just
doing massage on the shop floors of Selfridges and
House of Fraser and things and airports.
Yeah.
And that must be really interesting because you were just bringing that to
people and just saying, look, this is, have a go at this, feel what's it like,
what's it feel for you.
And you're getting curious.
And what were people finding when they were having these sessions done by you?
What were they finding?
Well, it's interesting because it was designed to be accessible and with clothes
on and in front of others generally, but in spaces that are quiet, people would
jump in and some would be very, very much like, can you do as much as possible in 10
minutes?
I'm just rushing around and it's not necessary.
It was a challenge for me to be able to go, right, how can I make the biggest
difference in a shorter space of time?
So I kind of like that.
that energy of just, you know, more faster techniques and shaking up the space and
then calming it down just with a few breaths and things like that.
So that's where I loved about it.
Some others would just be like, wow, I want, can I get more?
40 minutes or something like that.
But yeah, generally, and yeah, working in clinics doing more longer.
longer treatments as well at points.
And yeah, I just found that I would be really, really good at sensing where there
would be areas that need work, more work and others to clear that tension and allow
Buffalo and things to flow in and out better.
So once I was doing that, yeah, there's often, often people would be blown away at
those points.
and feeling very relaxed.
However, it's very interesting that because I still at that point in my life,
I still wasn't necessarily feeling like a communicator.
As such, I was verbal, nonverbal communicator using my hands or doing dance
and get, you know, kind of encouraging people that it's okay to, to get up and
dance, you know.
on a dance floor or something like that by just doing it myself or without having to
talk that much.
The words weren't coming up.
So that's where I got kind of went through a physical awakening of getting RSI's from
working really, really hard and repetitive strain injuries in my wrists.
And I got osteopathy, had osteopathy for that and got better again from...
those processes and went, that's really interesting.
What's osteopathy?
And, and I thought that would be the next level.
By the time I was 32, I wanted to learn about that because I was getting tired and
I was just going around the same loop of working really hard, but not necessarily
not knowing how to talk about what the longer game of that would be.
So people would come in for like,
one or two sessions, get feel, feel great again, and then go away again and never
call back.
And I wouldn't necessarily know how to follow up or talk about it all.
So, or, or talk through what would be useful as a plan, to manage the longer,
longer term.
And that's really from the space of where I'd come from with that whole thing
building up and the emotional, emotional, suffering that I went through at those
points or the belief systems that I had at the time.
Those are the things that create our reality and create whether we feel fixed
or stuck with a particular health thing or not as well.
So that's where I was like, I didn't realise I was fascinated in that and I was
working manually into the manual space, the physical space.
However, it's become apparent I was like working more and more towards
understanding how to address the mental and emotional.
areas to actually really get to the point of how someone wants to manage themselves
over a longer period of time and create the habits that they, the new habits that
they want will actually lay down either maintaining a better sense of health or
even improving it.
That's fascinating because it sounds to me like you are doing what happened to you.
There was that disconnect and then there was the very, with your Mum, there was
that very physical, let's call it an education, which you then mimicked when
you were working with people.
And then it's become broader.
So you've learned a skill and then you've got very familiar and competent with it.
And then you realise,
I need to add to it.
So you've added that three dimensional, not just massage and go, but sort of keep
on going and nurturing and making a space to help people on their journey.
Yeah, so, so I went through this long period of time doing the physical
treatment, then I moved into osteopathy, which was kind of working out how to, how
to,
how to help with the manual side of things, but it started to get into this
whole long -term health picture thing.
Even though a lot of the time when we go for osteopathy, it's like, something's
come up and I want to get something sorted in the moment and quickly and done again.
And people don't necessarily think about going for osteopathy for longer periods to
maintain a sense of...
maintenance or improvement on the longer term.
And
That's what I love about osteopathy is it's like the physical, it's the
functional body, it's the holistic approach to helping the body heal itself
by just being the channel to allow for what is already innate in someone that may
have got stuck.
And so that's the idea around that and then the communication part,
communication, communication.
So that's what I loved about it, but it also...
only opened up a certain level to me of understanding how to work with the
physical still, the physical body.
And so I came out of that and worked with that cook for quite a long time and loved
it and started to get a sense of how that could apply to the longer term picture.
I realised I was still so, so much more passionate about working from the bigger
vision.
of what health could be like, not just for a person, but for the world.
And that's that sense of seeing evidence of stuff that's not really working that
well in the medical system or seeing what's possible to change around that too.
So I was fascinated about all that.
And as we were leading out of coming out of osteopathy and working with that, I...
started to get a sense of, how can I become a mentor in sort of moving and
breathing well so someone can go away from the treatment room with a plan to not just
have physio exercises, but actually what is it that would bring osteopathic
principles and holistic health principles to a management plan, to a way in which
someone could go away and do it for themselves as much as they can.
So I got into that.
I started to write down all my ideas around that and created a, created, there
was a, my ex partner also developed an autoimmune condition.
I, there was a lot of stress in her life and she suddenly, she suddenly just had
this flare up that happened within a matter of weeks.
And it then grew and grew and grew to the point where she couldn't walk and her
whole hip and knee swelled up and she couldn't work anymore.
And then she was bed bound and.
in chronic pain and inflammation all around her body.
And it just went like this because she started to rest.
She just actually started to stop and rest.
And so that was fascinating from my perspective to go, now I get to work out
how to do some work in how to look at all those things that potentially help with
the self care, self management practices to move, yoga.
and dance and but how do we modify that to someone that has really strong feelings
about how they are or what them how they're moving or when they move they've
got to move gently so it's like the essence of qigong is to is to be gentle
and to let things flow but it wasn't that wasn't it i was like there's something in
there to add and and add to so this
idea that exercise is often is exercise has to be pushing pushing to the limits
and all this sort of stuff and and it's like that can't be that can't be done for
someone that is the chronic pain, chronic fatigue, chronic inflammation, all these
things that can come up for someone.
So how do how do we apply the essence of the Qigong and the yoga to to a sense of a
movement practice?
and a breathing practice that also pushes it a little bit, but not enough, not too
much.
So that's where I came up with something called lymphatic health exercise.
And that was where I've mapped that all out and started to use that for myself, my
own management also, how to modify it for people that, you know, do get achy and
pains if they try to do exercise very quickly.
So there's a, there's a space of...
getting moving in but how do we make it fun and just turn it into what my what I
loved about dancing and you know dancing so there's like the best of you taking
elements of what is already known what is already known it was nothing new about it
it's just a case of how can we apply it to a context of this modern world that is not
just you know Qigong is you know you throw throw words out like that to someone that
doesn't understand it, it won't land as such, but going, hey, it's, you know,
you've got a lymphatic system, you may have heard of that and that helps you
drain your body.
There might be another way in.
So it was just a way of going, what is already there?
What elements can we take and what we can put together that makes it fun and play
around with it and have a go at it.
So that, that's that modality where I was getting into mentorship and I was like,
maybe I could be a coach and around this.
and a mentor, but I had no idea about the life coaching and the performance coaching
elements and all these other ways in which you can coach as well.
And that's where I went down a rabbit hole of all of that coming into the pandemic,
coming out of the pandemic.
So I developed the lymphatic health exercise project through the pandemic
because it was an ideal space to go.
I would already started thinking about it and it was somewhere to go.
Or if someone's isolated and can't get to the gym and they only have their body.
What can we do to do it in limited space, time, budget and capacity to exercise?
So, and also potentially feeling ill as well with all the, you know, viruses
flying about and stuff.
So it was that idea around, it was, I played around with that in the pandemic.
As we came out of that, I was like, okay, let me just start, just learn to be a
coach as well.
I was set up as coaching business and that's where I realised about all the
other coaching modalities and then went through all of that as well.
So coaching, mental fitness training, which is all about helping to defragment
the mind and also step into our human powers that are not present when we feel
stressed or challenged.
So it's how do we apply and bring those to the challenges.
So it's all about mental fitness rather than the physical exercise fitness.
So there's mental fitness, coaching, somatic coaching work, which kind of is in
between the physical and the mental and the emotional, which helps as well.
I got coached in myself in order to be able to start communicating better and
talking and talking my story and being here without all that self judgment and
anxiety around it.
So.
As you can see, I'm not the same person I was.
I could have been or I was a while ago through these practices and being coached.
And finally, lead hardcore leadership training was the was the final piece on
that, allowing me to step up and challenge myself even further to go, what's
possible?
And this is what I believe is
where my comfort zone is around what I can do.
So I was learning that and realising now I could just get to do little incremental
pushes on that to expand and share this message further.
So, and then finally, Genius Genesis Mentorship is what I'm going through right
now, which is almost like taking all of that and actually having a way to just put
it into practice.
going forwards.
So there's a lot, I said a lot there.
It's really to boil it down, I call it mental fitness training.
I call it neuro creative.
We haven't even got into the idea around neurodiversity as well.
And that's part of my story around not knowing I was dyslexic until I was 33,
studying osteopathy.
That's a fantastic story, isn't it?
You've dragged yourself up by your bootstraps and gone, hmm, I can't do this,
I'll try that.
So you've taught yourself to a place where you're helping other people.
But describe your vision because it's helping the person, all of them, isn't it?
It's the mental, the spiritual, the heart, the emotion.
It's everything.
Describe your vision for...
how you work with people.
Yeah, thank you.
So the idea is, to put it simply, I like to remind people that we are all creative
our own way.
People consider creativity as a space of the output of what I've created.
And so, you know, we talk about being, I'm not a creative person because I don't know
how to draw or I don't know how to do this.
Whereas if we look at it from a point of view of what thoughts we're having and
beliefs we have will create whatever actions we take and whatever reality we'll
create going forward or how we react to others or our environments or challenges.
All of that is an automatic pattern that's been built up.
And so whether we're conscious of it or unconscious or automatic of it, we are
creating that going forwards.
Everything that's been placed about us in our rooms, our environments, our work that
we've chosen to do, even if you don't feel like we have had much choice in that
matter, it's been...
I've got to do this because of this or because of that.
It's still a sense of.
There is a choice underneath that.
And so when that when we realise we have that choice, we are our choices are
creative.
We are creating our choices.
So within that, I like to just go, yes, we're all creative.
In a sense, so someone can be creative with how they plan their day if they don't
feel like they're creative as in.
get up and sing a song or whatever, but they're much more feeling like they like
to do admin and, you know, do spreadsheets and stuff like that.
That's still a creativity.
That's still what's what the output is of the creativity process.
So whether you like planning or being impulsive or any of that, that's that's
all preference for your creativity processes.
So I like to call it neuro creativity rather than neurodiversity as such.
because it's more of a being in action, not just being a passive observer or a or
a responder, passive responder to the environment.
To make it, to go off on tangents here, but try to come back to the idea that we
can either be, I like to say we can either be disrupting, disruptive creativity.
So that could be something like, this is always happening to me.
and I'm going to respond in the same way because I have to.
And potentially that's causing, you know, sugar addiction or an alcohol addiction or
something.
And that could be a disruptive creative process because it's reactive responding.
I feel bad.
I feel got a hangover and actually I'll just have a drink and then I feel better
again.
But that's causing more health problems.
So, so, so there's a disruptive creative process.
It can also be a...
an aimless creative process, which is I don't know what to do today.
I'm a bit bored.
I'll watch Netflix or that I'll do this and I'll do that.
And I just want to relax today and not not feel stressed or go and do this and see
what this is like.
I've tried this dance class once and get bored of it and go and do something else
and kind of just playing around with ideas or doing things to to to feel all right
and good, but not necessarily.
having a vision or taking it somewhere.
So then they've got functional creativity.
Functional creativity is a sense of when we're in creative flow.
So again, it's not necessarily whether I can write a song in five minutes, but it's
a case of.
When I, when I am writing, if I'm writing, if I suddenly feel like I'm writing a song
and it's going really well and I'm in flow and I'm doing something that I know how to
do, that's creative flow.
If I know how to make a cup of tea really well, the way I like it, and I just go and
do it and I'm doing it and I'm enjoying it, that's creative flow.
So there's a potential functional creativity process to whatever we do.
So whatever we practice and get good at is that functional creativity.
it doesn't matter what we're doing as such is.
there's that sense.
And then there's visionary creativity, which is to either be comfortable or not
comfortable, but consciously moving towards something that we really want to
be making or creating.
And that, that is a sense of neuro creativity.
That's what I like to say is what, what we can use our nervous systems for and use
our bodies for and use our minds and our emotions for even if it's
I don't know how to do that, but I'm gonna work towards it anyway, regardless of
whether I'm judging, whether I'm good at it or not as I go along.
And that's the process that I really like to help people with is those especially
challenged with not feeling like they've fitted in to society, neurodiversity,
neurodivergence, neuro...
Yeah, all those.
elements to I didn't I didn't know that the arm that aren't being in their sense
of flow anymore so creative creative blocks for someone that that wants to get
back into it or is trying to get everything through it daily that isn't
isn't getting into it may have a bad habit instead I'm giving up
Right, I'm going to go and drink some alcohol or drink alcohol whilst I'm being
creative or whatever it is and turn to move towards this less space of disrun
disruptive into visionary because when we have a vision for the world or a vision
for what we want to do and bring to the world, then then then we'll move towards
it regardless.
So we get clear on that first then.
And that's what often we call leaders.
Leaders have vision.
doesn't matter whether they have a good vision or a bad vision for the world, but
they have something that they have, they have an agenda and they have a way to talk
about it in which inspires others to take action.
And that could be for them, for, for, for the ego, or it could be for the greater
good of everyone else.
And, and so that's what a leader, I personally think of a leader is.
So we can all be leaders.
We don't have to be standing on stages to be leader.
We can lead our lives in ways in which shows how humans can evolve in a better
way with a bigger vision that inspires.
So, you know, a mother of three can be an amazing leader that brings up their
children to want to be inspired by and to others going forwards as well.
So that's why I call neuro -creative leadership.
And that's where mental fitness training in order to get there faster.
I love the whole idea of creativity.
I remember at school being laughed at for drawing and my art suffered and I never
thought I was creative.
Yet I was a photographer for a long time.
I took lots of photographs.
I made people wealthy.
I helped businesses.
I did their marketing and stuff like that.
And I didn't think I was creative.
And this is going back to your school right at the beginning.
I didn't fit into that mold of that because I was something different.
But I didn't think I was creative yet.
I was taking photographs.
And then it's only been recently I've realised that I am incredibly creative.
And I love your story about the different types of creativity.
I think that just it's so liberating because people don't think they're
creative because the art teacher said that's rubbish or...
someone said that's rubbish and that just crucifies you.
And yet we are so incredibly creative.
So that story around the different types of creative I think is really uplifting,
really, really empowering for people, especially those who are incredibly
creative but have Emotional Intelligence or "Art Intelligence" or not just your bog
standard intelligence that helps you do maths or English.
Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that.
And yeah, yeah, it's really nice to hear that you've realised that yourself as
well.
Yeah, it was an interesting journey to get there because, yeah, it was just, you
know, I'm not creative, I'm stuck, I can't do this, I can't do that.
But little by little that, you know, like you said, you start to do something and
somebody tells you something or in your case, you're empowering people, you're
helping people and they go, well, I can't draw a straight line, but I can write a
song, I can play music, I can...
I can dance, I can be creative with my movement or with my writing or as a leader
or empower people and that's all creativity and that's just magical.
Yeah, yeah, so that's, I do believe that's the, that's the, that's the, that's one of
the ways in which we can tap into that is to go, what do I want to create?
And what do I want to create today?
to go back a little bit to the idea of the awakening.
I mean, how did you experience discomfort and how were relationships work and things
like that?
How all those impacted as you were having that dark night of the soul, as you were
realising that things weren't working for you and you were beginning to have to
change the way that you showed up in the world.
was only that point that, that, that week that I said that I couldn't sleep so well,
I was still going to work.
I was still operating.
I was operating like,
a zombie that had self -awareness that I was a zombie and that I was just felt like
a slave to whatever emotions were coming up and they were constantly coming up and
I don't even know I don't even know whether anyone could tell that's the
weirdest thing other than
eye was flickering, but even then I don't know whether anyone could tell.
And that's what's really both interesting and slightly scary.
That's what's potentially going on for so many others as well.
That idea that it's like, I'm getting on with it.
I've got to get on with it.
This is what I'm supposed to be doing.
so yeah, I'd be going to, I went to work.
I, it was only that moment after that week or during that week where I was like, I'm
not sleeping.
I've got to tell someone.
I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't consider or know what to do to, to ask for
help or tell anyone else other than my mum.
at that point, which I'm so glad she was there to do that.
However, leading up to all of that, I was like,
In some ways I was able to sense this thoughts and go, I just had that thought
that doesn't, that doesn't seem right at all.
Or, or that I'm, or I'm just having a feeling of, of like every choice that I'm
making now before every choice I was making was getting validation of I'm
raising consciousness, raising awareness, going to a place of.
everything's going to fall into place, everything's going to be amazing, you
know, getting signs and signs from the universe, synchronicities, things that
it's like, I just said that and that happened, or this, you know, it's like,
wow, this is going to be amazing.
And then, then it all just flip, you know, wasn't like just overnight, but it
somehow, somehow that, that event of being rejected.
I guess I was having the same experiences, but my perception of that was that now all
the things that were being validated, the things that are showing up saying you're
on the right path or I'm on a path, here's what you thought, this is what you get, or
all of that kind of coming to me.
was, no, I'm broken or it's not working or I'm going down the wrong route.
So the events were still the same, but my perception of what was going on meant that
I just was in fear of my life.
I was in fear of losing everything.
I was in fear of the...
people hated me.
That's one of the deepest, darkest ones was that whole thing of fear of rejection
to the point of actual, not just, not just, I don't want to know you, but as in,
I want to, you know, make sure that you don't get back up again, you know, kind of
thing.
And that was, that was, that really showed up for me.
So where's that come from?
Only now have I been able to explore that.
because I didn't want to, but I just didn't know how to or that I was I didn't
have that reflection process in place or the understandings that as we moved in as
human consciousness, we've all learning about what coaching is, and what what what
it's good for what is important for or general therapy, or specific therapies,
all of this has its place.
And I think it's only just kind of stuff that we can talk about.
So back then it was something that we could talk about.
I've felt kind of lucky that I went through it early, earlier, rather than
maybe some people are going through it now, you know?
So yeah, that's where I was.
I was just operating as best as I could.
And it was only up until I went, okay, I can't.
do this anymore, I've got to disclose it.
That was when I had to sort of like take a break and allow the healing.
You were existing and just rolling on day by day by day.
And then suddenly it was like, now you have to make some choices.
Now you have to change.
And that's when the fear comes in and squashes you.
As you said, there's that rejection.
There's that fear.
I'm not good enough.
I'm broken, which are just words that we keep ourselves small.
And then the universe was saying, you have to change.
You have to step out of that.
As you said, there's choices.
The number of choices gets smaller and smaller and smaller until you're down to
two choices, you know, change or adapt or die simplistically.
But so it's uncomfortable, isn't it, to get to that stage where it's you're
running out of choices, but you always have to.
Definitely.
It's a great way you put that actually.
And I really appreciate again, this space that you've created to be able to talk
about these things, because it's not just what we experience individually, but also
how we create conversations to show that it's normal and okay to talk about these
things and understand that potentially there is a process
You've worked out a process to help people through that.
I wasn't so lucky.
I was unhappy.
I was struggling.
I was, all my clients were useless.
They weren't paying me la la la la la la la.
And I was drinking like a fish.
And I had to come down to that point.
I had to get to that rock bottom.
And then there were the two choices, you know, I chose to get to rehab and to
change my life around.
and if, if we can help people see that they are going down that path, whatever
that path is, not necessarily drinking drugs, but whatever that path is, and
allow them a space to go, Hey, I'm stumbling.
I'm falling.
I'm slipping.
and help them to, you know, give them a hand and help them up.
they haven't got to hit that rock bottom.
They haven't got to get to that point where some people don't make it.
And I think, you know, it's a really important conversation.
It's really important to be able to say, I need help, you know, please help me.
Like you did with your mum, like I did at rehab.
And like, I'm assuming some of your colleagues and your clients do as well.
They reach out to you because of how you share your stories and things.
Well, yeah, that's a really good point.
So just to backtrack ever so slightly, I didn't realise I was dyslexic when I was
33.
The results from school in my teens validated some things and then taught me
to believe I was a certain way.
And then I was frustrated.
And then that frustration underneath wasn't necessarily the breakup that was
the rejection piece.
It was just waiting to...
to bring up all of that at some point anyway, that's what I feel anyway.
So it was not necessarily the specific situation, it's what's underlying.
And so not knowing how to, or feeling that I knew how to communicate in a certain way
wasn't realised until it was like, yeah, I get to learn a masters in osteopathy.
and insist on the test, the actual test, I had the mild, I had the small test, and I
come up as mild.
And they said, don't, don't, you know, don't worry about it, because someone
that's neurotypical on a tired day can come up as mild.
So you know, we don't want to spend that extra money on or do that test as such.
That wasn't what they said.
But they said, you know, we don't want to
necessarily do that test because it's not significant enough.
You don't think you need the diagnosis.
And I was like, I really, really do.
I really do want to do the test.
I had to insist twice.
Then when I did, I came up as dyslexic and it's because typically in the past
dyslexia is really apparent.
Before it was very apparent around a particular way in which someone processes
or, or
Or, or, and as I don't like the word dysfunction as such around these ideas,
because it's, it's, it starts to get into a place of, well, this is the way
something should be.
Therefore, if you're not doing it that way, then, then, then that's classed as
wrong.
Again, it's the same as like, you know, studying a subject and then going, well,
there's someone else that can show that they can do that subject in that
particular way.
and show their knowledge in a way in which is all what is perceived as intelligent by
speaking it.
Because they practiced that and they know how to do that.
Whereas I hadn't practiced speaking or thinking in that way.
I've been, what I've realised now is that I've had a much more intuitive way of
feeling into things and I feel what something will be like.
And I can feel, I feel an idea.
I can feel into what an idea is like, not how I can put it into words, which meant
that I could understand high level concepts of stuff, but frustrated that I
couldn't explain I knew anything about it.
It was just so frustrating to sit in conversation and hear people talking about
stuff and going, yep, yep, yep, I understand that.
Or some...
expert talking about something and going well that makes total sense and I can see
how if you do that with this thing you could do it with that thing and create
that thing just as easily and but not knowing how to describe it so so so with
that sense I'm much more into the idea that you know neurodiverse people or
neurodivergent people have felt like a certain way and they
fighting against that, like they can be, they can be who they want.
They're just sensitive in different ways.
And so that's what I'm interested in is I'm not saying that I can help all
neurodiverse people as such.
It's just a case of whoever resonates with what I, what I can do is I'm much more
interested in helping those that where, where the, where they've, they're going
through or gone through similar pathways to the way I've gone through.
So it's being hypersensitive, scattered, scattered thoughts or focus.
great ideas but unable to explain them.
But potentially being perfectionist about it, not wanting to be criticized or judged
around it until it's something that is worthwhile doing.
When you get to that point, it's always the next thing that could be better.
And so it's like actually...
It doesn't have to be about actually just releasing something perfect or releasing
it.
It's just a case of actually getting on with it and feeling satisfied.
What is satisfaction and what is success look like from not from anywhere else, but
from just in here and then working on that.
So, so I help what I call heart centered creative professionals, because maybe
there's a lot within that.
It's before I was talking about neurodivergence as such, but.
that can sometimes be a bit of a trap to go down because it's too specific or what
some may not know that they are neurodivergent or some people may know.
And actually I feel like it's really about sensing the world and feeling into it.
Some people are much more rational up here and can think in language and process in
language or some people can visualise really well.
I'm not really visualising that much.
I can picture things I've already seen, but not things that I've already, that
I've not seen so well.
So, whereas you can tell that other artists can just dream up a picture in
their mind and then draw it.
That's why it looks so amazing.
It's like, how do you, I was like, like, don't know how someone can do that because
I don't visualise it.
I can sense into it.
I can feel into it.
But then that's great because I can sense, you know, things that other people can't
sense.
So, so.
It's the case of we can all work together in some way to, to come up with ideas from
our own ways in which we perceive and feel into things or see into things or think
into things.
So my picture is heart -centered created because a heart is about sensing and
feeling as such feeling into it, but not necessarily confined to that as well.
So, so, so heart -centered created professionals who are struggling with
scattered focus or choosing what they really want to create and that are
potentially struggling with perfectionism to actually get what they want out in the
world whether it's for themselves or as a side project or as a next level career
change and really the ideal person is
is that person that wants to get out of what they want.
What they want to step into, you know, from working potentially in a space of,
I'm doing this over and over again, I feel like I'm doing it because I should be
doing it.
It could be working for someone else or it could be just, you know, left to your own
devices.
It can be, again, something that means that we don't.
release that project or release that thing just for the self or for a business.
So that's the idea.
And how to lead training to mental fitness and training into how to lead that
process.
Pick a project to work on and just work on something simple to start with.
Work on something simple over 12 weeks just to create a project that means
something that isn't just a case of get back into creativity process but...
creative process with that vision recreativity mind, what is important to
hear and what could make the world, not necessarily a better place, but inspire,
inspire the world with that project through a sense of the creativity process
and then committing to it and making it happen.
I love that Rory.
I think that's fantastic because you're encouraging people to be creative and
curious and you have to be curious.
And it's vision, not belief as well, isn't it?
It's not belief in right or wrong.
It's a vision that I can improve, I can change and my ideas might be able to be
expanded on.
So it's a...
positive mindset and it's growth, but it's curious.
And I think curiosity is so important and it does mean you've got to be vulnerable.
You've got to say, hmm, that didn't work.
And if you're working with perfectionists, I guess that's tough for them.
Yeah.
Yeah, as the perfectionists in the world get things done in outstanding ways to the
sense of the even when we get there, we're already criticizing, it's like fear of
criticism, but it's actually already criticizing inside, isn't it?
So that sense of, can I just put it out there the best I can?
is one thing, but also how does it represent something that I can, the ego
can let go of as well to allow it to not be criticising, to get out of their own
ways, just go I'm going to create this for a reason and the reason is bigger than my
inner critic or the criticism that I could make up or that someone else could say.
I think that's the key to it, is to actually make it something so inspiring
that it really doesn't matter.
In itself.
I think you've nailed it.
It doesn't matter in itself is the one, isn't it?
I mean, plenty of writers and artists have said, do it for yourself.
Don't do it with an expectation.
I mean, we all know expectations are disastrous.
That's stacking up resentments.
I think you're spot on.
We can create, and if we're going to do it with, I want it to be a success, I want it
this, if we put limitations on it,
it may well get limited, but if we're gonna be broad minded enough to say,
right, I'm creating something and off it goes, I've done the best I can, and that's
gonna be good enough.
I think that's where the magic happens.
Yeah, definitely.
Where can people find you?
Where can we find you on social media and things?
yeah, so I'm, I go by the name of Rory Lemon Aid, AID to health, as all one word.
So I, I, that's where I, it can be found on many of the social media platforms and
also my lemonaid .xyz website.
Cool, thank you.
And one last question.
What do you think has been the most transformative gift that you have received
in your awakening?
It's a wonderful question.
And I think, I think it's a sense of.
The two words that come up for me is appreciation.
because when I've now been able to appreciate where I've come from and where
I want to go and how I want to appreciate or what I want things to appreciate and I
like that appreciation because it's kind of like this kind of growth element to it
an idea around if someone appreciates it then and that's great or but I get to
appreciate it too and
And it's a sense of gratitude comes from that.
It's like a core piece.
And it stems from that whole thing of what else is possible.
That's the curiosity of what else is possible.
If that happened and I can now learn and grow from it, I'm able to appreciate it.
What else becomes possible through appreciation.
Brilliant, thank you ever so much.
Well, it's been super having you on the podcast.
Thank you ever so much.
And yeah, I will let you know when we go live, so thank you.
Thank you, Hamish, for everything you're doing with this.
Because again, like I mentioned at the start, it's so important to have these
conversations.
And it just goes to show that it all brings about when people hear it, when we
listen to these things and we associate where we've been and where we've come
from, it really makes a big difference to what is possible with the human race going
forwards.
as human consciousness is evolving.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Brilliant.
Thank you very so much.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible, Conversations for the
Curious.
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