Mike Koenigs To personality and plays and entertainment. There we are in a golden era of what's possible. Dan and I talked about today, the play that he invested in from Jeffrey Madoff, which is spectacular. Dan Sullivan We just saw it together last Saturday, you normally take that your return on investment is going to be money but my I've already had a 10 times return on investment just by being a passenger as ride of creating a new Broadway play. Mike Koenigs I'm just excited about being alive right now in the world of entertainment. Mike Koenigs Dan, I just came back from a great adventure in Chicago besides a couple of days a strategic coach, we went and saw personality, the play, which is a Lloyd Price musical. Here's the fancy mug I got a fantastic Yeti mug and the this is the the whatever that what are these things called the note set of play the program? Yeah, there's another nothing but anyway, playbill. That's what it is. It's looking for playbill. Yeah. So in our good friend, Jeffrey Madoff, put this plan he's been working on it now for I think it's six years, six years. I've been hearing about it since he started talking about I thought, Oh, my God, man, are you willing to risk your entire career and your livelihood and probably your savings? Working on a play? I thought what a terrible investment. And the first time he sent me the draft of the script, I was blown away. We saw the table reading where he got actors together. And you know, hearing about watching the development, you're an investor in it, you just went for it? Was it your sixth or eighth time? Or was a seventh? Dan Sullivan Sixth? Yeah, it was a sixth time I've seen it from the so there were three stages. Dan Sullivan Well, I got the script to before I'd happen. And then I saw video, I saw the table reading. And then there think of workshops, which is the first time the whole play is put on except for costumes, and scenery. And that was in New York, you know, right in the theater district. And they have 72 hours according to union rules where they can put on two presentations. And it it was terrific. It was terrific. And so just to take the watchers and listeners of this back lie does a lot of documentary or a Jeff Madoff does a lot of documentary films. And one of the subjects was man by the name of Lloyd Price, who it turns out is the first legitimate rock'n'roll star and he crossed a bridge for whatever they call this music before he crossed the bridge, but he was the first real legitimate rock and roll star. And this is in late 1951, early 1952. And I remember him because I was seven and eight years old, in 1951, in 1952, and Lloyd and I are both from northern Ohio. And we're both in our 70s I'm I think I'm about four years older than Lloyd is. And so we have a lot of history that we can collect. We have a podcast series called anything and everything, just to nail us down. And anyway, we were at lunch in New York, six years ago, five years ago. And Lloyd said, I'm, we're really ready to go to build the play that you read the script of. And so, you know, he was talking about the first funding round, and he got he went to the restroom. And while he was away, Babs, and I said, let's, let's invest in this. And when he came back, and I said to I said to Jeff, we really want to support you. And he says, Well, that's very much appreciated. He says moral support. moral support is really good, but what I'm looking for right now is money. And I said, Yeah, we're interested and, you know, he named the minimum entry and you know, and we took a look and we said, you will be And, and we've done it three times now. And it goes, you know, as it goes so as like a start up in any you know, like a technology startup, you have these funding funding rounds, and you jump from stage to stage in terms of you're, you're further away from the marketplace. And then at a certain point you're in the marketplace. And this in Chicago, this is right in the theater district of Chicago at the Studebaker theater. And they were about a month into the 12 week run. So they have a 12 week Brian, which is a really big run for the for play 12 weeks, and it is spectacular. Okay, and, and it's so well written, and it's so well cast and all the other skills, the choreography, the set design, the music director, and of course, it's all the original music, these are all number one hits the hit parade in the 1950s and 1960s. And he's just the character Floyd price is just an extraordinary Made in America a type of character, you wouldn't get this type of character anywhere else in the world. And the play really reflects this. And fortunately, Lloyd Price was still alive. When we did our the workshop stage and I was backstage after the play. I was Babs and I were able to talk to him. And he's, you know, at that time, he was 8687 years old. And, you know, then develop a lot of bad habits that people in the entertainment industry the things that they take on or shorten their life, and therefore shorten their career, he learned that a full life and it's a great story. And I recommend anyone who's interested in history, who is interested in music, who is interested in theater to get to Chicago as fast as you can, and sign up and bring a lot of your friends with you. I've, we've had so far, probably about 50 or 60, Strategic Coach clients and their, you know, their family members go to the play. And they all come back and say What a spectacular play. You know, in Chicago, they have about five magazines and publications, which put they have a one through 10, which you should do this summer, and personality, the play named after his most famous hit, which was personality, if you go to YouTube, and you look up Lloyd Price, you're you know, you've heard the music, you just didn't know who wrote the music and who performed the music. And that's the actors are spectacular. They, the cohesion of the play is just amazing for the start to finish. And I've seen it twice so far. I saw the first week and I've now in week five. And I saw it and I was just amazed at the tightness of the production. Mike Koenigs Yes, I I'll give you my quick evaluation and gratitude. Jeffrey, and then I'll also tell you a little bit a couple other what I think are interesting things. First of all, I don't know if you remember this or know this but you know, Tim, Tim Ferriss is one of the investors in this project as well. And Tim and Jeffrey go back a long time. And there's there's really some some amazing people involved in it. And as far as the music, you know, of course what Lloyd Price is the couple of the most recognizable signs are of course, personality, the song to do to do to do that one and then of course Latinas Claudie, but he is a guy who you absolutely recognize his music, and he really genuinely lasted for decades productive. Sam Cooke was one of the people he mentored and there's a Richard it's just like, he knew everyone. And he was one of the first to do televised music shows from a first recording artist own his own label. Mike Koenigs Yeah. And he was the first African American to really figure out the music business and figure out how to not only make the keep his money, and stay out of trouble, like you had said so. All those things packaged up in a remarkable show. What I loved about the program, if I went through it is from The moment it opened up. Mike Koenigs One of the things that they did that I really liked is they had two versions of Lloyd on screen at a time. So there's a younger one and then the older one who's the narrator. And that play between the two are they're actually engaged. It's sort of like breaking the what do they call it breaking the third wall or the fourth wall and on screen when the character turns to the camera and talks to you, when like Ferris Bueller did that. Fletch did that there have been a couple of movies. I think like airplane probably did it too. And then Blazing Saddles, you know that? That is a it's kind of shocking. Yeah, yeah. It's Shakespearean as Shakespeare. Okay, yeah. To have that narrative with the audience comes out. And then they he's talking to himself, but he lets you listen in and he's talking to himself. It's all smart. It's just what's interesting is the character, the adult, Lloyd Price, his name is St. Alban, he came right out in the audience periodically, you know, and would talk to the end of it, you know, he would sing to the members, and he would High Five them, and he would make references. So really, it was a very interactive play. Although it was, you know, it was a stage play, and the action took place. But what I noticed the huge connection between the audience and the, the company, the theater, you know, the cast company and everything else. So there's just this enormous connection that was established in the first minute. And stayed absolutely tell they were taking their vows. Mike Koenigs Yeah, yeah, perfectly. If I are going to talk about the things I loved the most, it is tight. Like, there isn't an offbeat in the whole thing. And what they're pulling off both vocally with dance with costume changes the flow of the thing, there are no breaks, you know, there's some lighting tricks during transitions. But I, I found the watching the production, just as entertaining as the show. And the performances of the singers. What it's clear is they're hungry, you know. And that doesn't mean they're inexperienced, or not talented, you can tell they're hungry, like they, they know, they are writing a great show that is exceptionally well produced exceptionally well written by people who care. And while you're watching it the whole time, I was like, God, I can't wait to see the movie version of this. This is a movie. And I think from a brain perspective, I walked away feeling as though I couldn't tell whether I watched a play or a movie. Yeah. And when that happens, it means that there's a certain level of congruence and timing impeccability, that is exceptionally exceptionally difficult to pull off. And they pioneered an entirely new sound technician, soft sound technology. And that is, you know, when he went to turn the radio on, and the radio that was being done by the sound technician, it was that there wasn't actually actually any music coming out of the radio, but it made it seem like radio, and anywhere were one of the casts for singing, they were able to amplify the sound of that that person is the first time that this has ever been used. Mike Koenigs Is it some form of like 3d audio processing or something like that? Or because if it could have been just my brain, it felt directional at times. And I was trying to okay, I was trying to put my I didn't know that. But I noticed it. That was set seem to be a movie. They would you know, when they were driving in a car, you would see the traffic going by right the way they did the monitors and the screens behind them. The it's basically it wasn't projectors, but it was projection. Yeah. And it's partial. So it wasn't like there's a whole set of screens and monitors so it didn't distract from the ball. You're…if I showed in that gave you enough suggesting that your brain Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, Lloyd is just our job is just an incredibly good writer. And he's a he's an incredibly good producer who can bring amazing talents together and work on a common purpose. Mike Koenigs Yeah, I would say and I love how he asks because he doesn't he's not a hard anything you like he is, you know, if you want to be involved in this great he doesn't take anything personally like he but to the level of commitment, dedication and consistency. That's another big thing about Jeff. But I would also say his he has the technical….the level of detail and attention, it'd be like he's like fractal like, meaning when you look through a microscope or a telescope, and you keep on seeing the universe. That's what Jeff's brain is like, to me. Because when I like he and I, here's, here's the way I describe hanging out with Jeff, I'll call him up and be like, Hey, let's meet for coffee. And coffee means you start at nine, and you end at about 430 When the coffee shops closing, because there's a constant stream of fascinating topics that all flow together, and it's not an ADHD orgy, you know what I mean? It's like there is there's continuity to the conversation. And but yep, there's that creative flow. So he's, he's genuinely one of the best conversationalist I've ever known. And he's got an endless stream of great stories, because he's not you know, Vivian often says, If you want to be fascinating, you have to be fascinated. And he is an exceptional interviewer really, really knows how to get in and pull the core and essence out of an individual or a circumstance or situation. And so he's a great filmmaker, producer, writer, and I can't I can't say enough good things about him. So one of the things is about three years ago, Jeff, and I created podcasts. And so about every fourth podcast we do was just asking Jeff about the creation of something. You know, and it's all guesses and bets, you know, the, you know, I mean, he said, he says, this is a high risk investment. And I said, and I told him and Babson I told him, right? We're not high. We told them that, Jeff, we're not investing in the play, we're investing in you. Right? And I said, so. And, you know, after the third round of investment, he said, you know, you know, this is really risky, what you're doing here, and I said, I've already got a 10 times return just by being, you know, being a passenger on those trips. So I said, don't you worry about the bison, I think there's going to be a big return. You know what, the moment I saw the internet's first workshop setting, I said, this is one of those iconic plays, that will be going 25 years from now, 50 years from now. Okay, because it's so captures what happened in a particular decade when rock and roll hit the world. And this was the first guy across the bridge into this new world. And I said, this is a timeless play. Mike Koenigs I completely agree. It's this is it'll be just as fun to watch in 100 years as it was now. So let's, let's flip over to I wanted to talk to you a little bit about entertainment and shifting entertainment. So at this moment when we're recording this, and I was just talking to a past Strategic Coach member Chelsea that could represent many many big name comedians in in Hollywood, including Jordan Peele, Tiffany Haddish, Jimmy Chang, Jimmy, Wang, and many, lots and lots of others. I mean, big, big players, get more clients, grow your business with better marketing and messaging, make more money and get a better life with more freedom of time, money, relationship, and impact. Learn more about our three day one on one done with your Reinvention Workshop, visit connect to mike.com to book a conversation with me right now. All right back to the episode and there's a writer strike going on right now. And the actors are about to strike and I've had a I've had a feeling for quite a while that this is an industry that unfortunately no they were devastated during the lockdown. Hollywood in general, it's been ripe for a big change on the way back from flying home. Last Night, or the night before, I watched a chunk of Babylon, which is really a movie with Brad Pitt. And it's really about just how it was a transition period when Hollywood went from talkies to, or what went from Silent films to talkies, and how the people who used to be in silent films couldn't get their head around this new era. And right now, you know, we went from the traditional film world, and then VHS and DVDs and rentals, and then to streaming. And now everyone there is fearful about what's going to happen with AI. It's my opinion that in the entertainment industry, doing strikes, and expecting the world to stay the same, is putting a nail in the coffin of a lot of Hollywood. And if you think you're you're protecting yourself, by trying to force your will on an industry that doesn't have control over itself, and costs are going to continue to go down. And the value of things is going to completely shift, you know, the world of virtual is going to change all this, I have a, I have a tremendous amount of respect for entertainers, entertainment, the creative process. And it's hard. It is a hard business, but the world is changing. So you just can't build castles on top of sand and expect things to be stable. But I I'd be curious what your take is on what's going on right now. And you've watched a lot of shifts and changes in entertainment. I consider you to be an entertainer as well. And just a different kind of entertainer. But at the end of the day, we're in showbusiness. So what's your take on what's going on right now? And I just, I want to get a sense of your perception, because you have the benefit of more history on your side. Dan Sullivan Yeah. You know, it's interesting, the golden age of movies was actually the after sound had come in, it was really probably from the mid 30s to the mid 50s. And that was the studio system. And it was based on stars. Okay, and you had stars in the studio protected the prevented the public of knowing too much about the personal lives of the star. Yeah. Okay. And a lot went down there that you wouldn't want to the public to know. And they were royalty. When I when I grew up. The actors were, America doesn't have royalty, but the movie stars came as close to being royalty, as any, you know, as any profession ever became an American history. Okay. And when the studio broke down, there was a plus for actors, and there was a minus for actors. And the plus was they had a lot more freedom to go out and do their own projects. And there were a lot more independent movie companies, but they weren't studio system, or they weren't and they didn't, they lost the protection of the studio. Okay. And the other thing is, they became, it was we're going through a real political change. And the actors identified themselves with certain political themes. And I don't want to know what my favorite actor thinks about politics. I don't want to I don't want to tune and they don't realize is that they're, they're losing their luster every time they open their mouth. About one of my favorite actors, and that's his longtime actor. He's a British by the name of Michael kitchen. And Michael, I think started acting and being in movies when he was about 18. And I think he's in his early 70s. Now, so he's sad, and he's been continually employed over that period of time. And during those 55 years, you know how much interview time he has, either in print or in sound or in visual form, or more, or minutes. And he was really boring. And, you know, he was really smart. Yeah. He said, Yeah, you know, I'm really busy, I don't really think much about that topic. You know, he's, it says, I go to work in the morning, and I act all day. And then I go home at night, and I meet my family. And, you know, you know, I've got some hobbies, I do my hobbies and everything else. But he said, Yeah, it's all about what I do during work hours. And he says, and I don't know much about act acting, but people tell me, I'm a good actor. And I don't I don't have any theories about it. I don't see that there's anything significant about it other than actors, or people who are good at pretending to be other people. And, you know, and it's the people I pretend to be, are the really interesting people. He says, I'm just somebody who's good at pretending and says, and the characters that I, the characters that I take on don't really reflect who I am as an individual. And people, people don't really want it, I find people don't really want to know who I am as an individual. Well, we've come 180 degrees from that. He has great stories is one of the great probably, BBC, probably a British Broadcasting Corporation, probably Yeah, I think one of these great series, it was about a seven year series with, you know, roughly 10 hours of season called foils for and, and it's one of the most spectacular acting jobs I've ever seen in my life. And he doesn't do anything. It's not an action thing. But here, he has a way of moving his face that shows up. But it doesn't show up when he's being filmed. It shows up when the editor is looking at the film. As a way, he has a way of saying, Oh, and there's mountains of meaning. And when he says, Oh, your sense of timing is everything else. But but he has a mystique about him. Well, I'd really like to get to know this person, but he doesn't let you get to know him. Yeah, and that that makes him a special kind of entertainer. So my sense is, whether it's entertainers in sports or entertainers on stage or entered, I don't want to know anything about who they are as individuals. And from their perspective, they shouldn't want anyone to know who they are as an individual. They should only want people to know them through the characters that they play. Yeah. Mike Koenigs That takes an enormous amount of ego control. Dan Sullivan And, well, confidence. Well, confidence. Mike Koenigs Yeah. Oh, for sure. The expectation of an actor these days, is so much different because of the level of activity required and demanded on them. And also the fact that in the past, I think I've told you the story before but Richard Dreyfus, I spent a chunk of time with him. And he is a classic example of a guy. Yeah, yeah. He's, he's actually fairly coarse. In real life. And he talks talks a lot. You know, we remember At, you know, you were playing you were on the plane. Mike Koenigs Yeah, yeah. But there's, there's a phrase that we talked about this last week, and I said, VPM is value per minute. It's how much value comes out of your mouth per minute. And he's a great actor, but he talks too much when he's in person, he doesn't get to the damn point. You know, it'd be like, got out spend an hour and a half on something that's like shit. I don't really I don't know what the hell you just said. And he's, he's, but I like him. Like he's, he's fun to hang out with. It's just like, God didn't just get to the point, man. So me. And I've hung out with a few actors who are similar on that level. And just like you say, they don't have to be the most interesting people in the world. And sometimes shutting up is really important, but these days, like, if you look at Ryan Reynolds, he just sold his mobile phone company for billions of dollars, just like George Clooney, when he did his alcohol deal, made him a billionaire, okay. And actors have a level of freedom and independence because their platforms and their social media are massive currency multipliers and famous right tell you a great symbol of what actors have become is Uh, Megan well, and actors Israel and royalty as royalty, okay, that she was in vited in to the royal family. And then she told the whole world about her inner feelings about being a member of the royal family. And quite frankly, I don't want to know anything about the royal family. I just want to I just really liked their pageantry. And I just really like, you know, I just like the theater. I just, I just liked the theater of frailty. Yeah. And, boy, the Queen, who just died. She had her roll down. Totally. Dan Sullivan She stayed in character for 70 years, you know? Because nobody, I don't think she you have anything on film about what she felt about anything, you know, or thought about anything. But she showed up every day. She showed up on time she did what she did when she said she was going to do and, you know, and everything. And Megan wants us to know about her inner toy my head. Yeah. And then, and everything. And not only has she lost her status as a member of the royal family, but she's violated a law. I don't even I wouldn't want to be. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near this person as she is as a person. Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. I think that's a nice contrast of what's happened to the field the Bakhtin. Yeah. And and she thought Buckingham Palace was just like Hollywood. It's not. It's not. Yeah, and how Hollywood isn't anything like Hollywood used to be? You know, it's a different world. You know, they're, you know, they're, they're chopped liver. Mike Koenigs Yeah. Well, that may be my last point in the entertainment world, because I know you got to wrap up soon is that what I predict is going to happen is very much what happened, were podcasting. The difference between podcasting and radio, and what YouTube did, where distribution. And platforms are basically free now. And you're rewarded with, you know, it's always been a popularity contest. But now, your ability to reach an audience is easier than ever before. And what AI and some of the new tools are going to enable really smart, entrepreneurial actors, actresses and producers to do is bypass all the system. Yeah. So unions are putting I think they're shooting themselves another time. And you can't protect yourself. And you're going to be rewarded on a pure meritocracy basis for being extremely productive. Dan Sullivan And not only that, understand what the audience wants. Mike Koenigs Yes, yeah. Yeah, yep, there will be the level of transparency. And you know what, Jordan, Peele did that when he started doing all of his YouTube stuff years ago. And that guy got a half a billion dollar deal. So but, well, we can bring this one to a halt. But I think the most important takeaway is get your ass on over to see this play personality because it's so damn good. And these actors and performers really, really deserve this attention. And I want Jeffrey to be unbelievably successful. I want that. I want to see that play in Las Vegas and on Broadway. Dan Sullivan And I want to see that and then the West End. Mike Koenigs Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, I'll go I'll I'll I'll go there with you. That's I do that as long as it's not winter. Yeah, not a fan of London in the wintertime. But anyway, it was, I want to continue having this conversation about entertainment entertainers and making cool things because this is we're about to begin a whole new era of moviemaking, and what entertainers can do, and I'm really excited for the entrepreneurial ones who decide to take matters into their own hands, take control, and create great things without the burdens of the past. inflicted on them. Dan Sullivan Yep. Mike Koenigs All right. Thanks a lot. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. And we'll see in the next episode, make sure you like comment and share this with people you love. See you