1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,430 Welcome to the podcast. Here's a sneak peek of 2 00:00:02,430 --> 00:00:05,640 what's coming up in today's episode. Did you used to be crap 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,930 at sales? Yes. How crap were we talking? Awful, really, really, 4 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:15,690 really bad. If I rewind to like, the first sales job, I thought 5 00:00:15,750 --> 00:00:19,470 selling was being Del boy from only fools and horses. I really 6 00:00:19,470 --> 00:00:24,750 thought the gift of the gab was selling, but I was really good 7 00:00:25,140 --> 00:00:27,660 at booking appointments. You were the top Booker. I was the 8 00:00:27,660 --> 00:00:31,440 top Booker, but nothing ever closed, nothing ever closed, 9 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,470 except maybe one deal, apart from one at the back end. Maybe 10 00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:39,120 my whole career, up until a few years ago, was was music, but 11 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,970 sales pays the bills. And I thought, like, this boy bands 12 00:00:41,970 --> 00:00:45,270 gonna take off. We're gonna be the next big thing. Move over. 13 00:00:45,270 --> 00:00:49,320 JLS, we're in town. We're taking over. I was like, just do this 14 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,890 until it takes on. I remember, like, being on the phone, but 15 00:00:52,890 --> 00:00:56,160 then I'm like, my head is somewhere else. I'm like, 16 00:00:56,190 --> 00:00:58,590 dreaming about, oh, what would it be like to play the O2 arena? 17 00:00:58,620 --> 00:01:01,680 You really, honestly, when we sort of spoke about Reed before 18 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:06,120 off camera. You said that you got promoted too quickly. And 19 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,940 the only person in Reed, don't mean to laugh, but the only 20 00:01:08,940 --> 00:01:13,230 person in Reed's history to get demoted. What the hell happened 21 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:18,220 A lot of salespeople, like, especially when we think about 22 00:01:13,230 --> 00:01:13,470 there? 23 00:01:18,220 --> 00:01:23,890 like, SDRs, AES, a lot of them are like 20 to 30. And within 24 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,120 20/30 there's that question mark of, like, what is my life? What 25 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,740 am I doing? Where am I going to be? I'm probably like, 25/26 I'm 26 00:01:32,740 --> 00:01:35,560 like, this isn't the path that I thought I'd be on. I'm just 27 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,190 working like a cruddy sales job. What's the point? I saw a 28 00:01:39,190 --> 00:01:41,440 picture of you and Chris Voss, and I thought that was just some 29 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,380 weird post. That's bullshit. There's no way you sat with 30 00:01:44,380 --> 00:01:47,470 Chris Voss for an hour. He charges like 10 grand an hour. 31 00:01:47,530 --> 00:01:50,410 Be a cheeky Northerner. You'll get it for free, right? Let's 32 00:01:50,410 --> 00:01:51,730 hear that story. What happened? 33 00:01:56,290 --> 00:01:59,080 mark ackers: Hello and welcome to another episode of The I used 34 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,320 to be crap at sales Podcast. I'm Mark Ackers, your host, co 35 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,560 founder and Head of Sales here at my sales coach, and today in 36 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,830 the big orange chair, I'm joined by the Director of Sales 37 00:02:08,830 --> 00:02:12,790 consultancy, co director and head of sales at WAM. That's we 38 00:02:12,790 --> 00:02:16,660 have a meeting at a time of recording 24,000 LinkedIn 39 00:02:16,660 --> 00:02:20,800 followers, a man obsessed with cold calling and death, and 40 00:02:20,830 --> 00:02:25,120 that's just all LinkedIn says they've also worked in an Amazon 41 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:30,250 warehouse on a cruise ship. They sold recruitment services Ivas 42 00:02:30,490 --> 00:02:34,120 and every type of insurance you can think of, from commercial to 43 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,980 life, even Sky remote control insurance up and you spend time 44 00:02:38,980 --> 00:02:42,880 trying to make it in a boy band full time. You probably worked 45 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,240 out when I said, wham, we have a we have a meeting. But in case 46 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,680 you didn't, today's guest is Jack frimston. Jack big, welcome 47 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,870 to the podcast and the orange chairs. Thank you for having me. 48 00:02:52,870 --> 00:02:56,110 That was lovely. What you said it was like flashing back all 49 00:02:56,110 --> 00:02:59,140 those awful memories. What was the most awful memory at 50 00:02:59,140 --> 00:03:05,500 flashback the Amazon warehouse was was very, very bad. That was 51 00:03:05,500 --> 00:03:07,900 like during covid. I thought, You know what? It can't be that 52 00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:11,470 bad. I'll just get to make sure, like, pocket money. Yeah, it was 53 00:03:11,710 --> 00:03:14,860 awful. I feel like I could just talk to you for an hour about 54 00:03:14,860 --> 00:03:18,880 how the intricacies of Amazon works, but we won't do that. 55 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,460 That wouldn't make for a good podcast up there on my brain. 56 00:03:22,330 --> 00:03:26,920 Um, let's kick it off with a yes. No question, did you used 57 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:28,750 to be crap at sales? Yes. 58 00:03:29,900 --> 00:03:33,740 Jack Frimston: How crap are we talking awful, really, really, 59 00:03:34,220 --> 00:03:39,260 really bad. I'd even go as far to say as, like, it's only it's 60 00:03:39,260 --> 00:03:42,400 such like an egotistical thing to say, like, I'm good at sales 61 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,400 now, but obviously, like, I like to think that I'm all right at 62 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,640 selling, and I've got a bit of an understanding. But if I 63 00:03:48,700 --> 00:03:54,520 rewind to, like, the first sales job, I thought selling was being 64 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,280 delboy from Only Fools and Horses. I thought, I really 65 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:02,640 thought the gift of the gab was selling, which, as you get older 66 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,400 in life and wiser, you realize it's the total opposite. 67 00:04:07,380 --> 00:04:10,080 mark ackers: So that's a great place to start. We've got you in 68 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,020 the chair. You actually left your house at six o'clock this 69 00:04:13,020 --> 00:04:17,400 morning to drive up to our studio in Newcastle to talk 70 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,340 about being crap in sales. What made you want to do that? I 71 00:04:20,340 --> 00:04:24,020 think it's I obviously, we employ a lot of young people 72 00:04:24,020 --> 00:04:27,560 that are new to sales, and I talk a lot about it on LinkedIn, 73 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,220 but I think it's like, it's good to know that, like, if you're 74 00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:34,400 struggling right now, or especially if you're at a point 75 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,520 in your life where you're like, What am I doing? Like, let's 76 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:42,280 face it, most people that are in sales fall into sales. They have 77 00:04:42,280 --> 00:04:44,980 a dream outside of sales. They have something else that they 78 00:04:44,980 --> 00:04:49,240 want to pursue. My whole career, up until a few years ago, was, 79 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,900 was music, but sales pays the bills. So I was like, right? 80 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:55,720 I'll do that nine to five. Sick, it's five o'clock. I'm off. I'm 81 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,300 gonna go and play guitar somewhere. But it's like, it's 82 00:04:58,300 --> 00:04:59,920 knowing that like other. 83 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,860 Jack Frimston: People have walked that it's okay to feel a 84 00:05:01,860 --> 00:05:05,880 little bit lost in the sales world, and actually, if it is 85 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,180 something that you get better at, like, everybody works in 86 00:05:09,180 --> 00:05:12,660 sales, like even if you don't work in sales, being a better 87 00:05:12,660 --> 00:05:15,480 listener, being a better communicator, asking better 88 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,180 questions, having a stronger mindset, you're going to be 89 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,720 better in whatever walk of life you go into. You're going to be 90 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,000 a better parent, you're going to be a better partner, a better 91 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,300 friend, all of those things. So even if you work in sales now 92 00:05:26,300 --> 00:05:29,360 and you're just thinking, like, I'm a bit lost, like I wanted to 93 00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:32,840 come on and like, I respect what you guys do, but come and people 94 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:35,840 are listening to this go, oh god, yeah, I felt like where you 95 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:39,740 were six years ago. It might be alright. You might end up 96 00:05:39,740 --> 00:05:42,460 wearing all black in Newcastle at nine in the morning. 97 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,880 mark ackers: So let's talk about what you just said. And so much 98 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,400 of that resonated, and I've spoke about that before as well. 99 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,980 Like, if you can pick up those sales skills and fine tune them, 100 00:05:50,980 --> 00:05:53,200 you can have better conversations with everybody. 101 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,980 But let's talk about what you said about falling into sales so 102 00:05:56,980 --> 00:05:59,740 your first sales job, you've put yourself as 1617, 103 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,420 Jack Frimston: appointment booking. Tell me how you got 104 00:06:03,420 --> 00:06:06,540 that first job, and if it was a conscious choice to take a sales 105 00:06:06,540 --> 00:06:11,580 job, it it was so it's so funny, because obviously what I do now 106 00:06:11,700 --> 00:06:14,880 is appointment booking, and my first ever sales job was doing 107 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,820 the exact same, different kind of different thing, but like, 108 00:06:18,180 --> 00:06:22,940 it's funny how it's come full circle 16 years later. I it was 109 00:06:23,060 --> 00:06:29,060 year 10, so I was 1516, years old, and my best friend ramen. 110 00:06:29,060 --> 00:06:32,300 He was doing work experience where he didn't get paid. Two 111 00:06:32,300 --> 00:06:34,640 weeks, I went to a primary school. I was like, maybe I'll 112 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,800 be a teacher. I don't know what I want to do. So I went to a 113 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,180 primary school. He went to he found a publishing company that 114 00:06:40,180 --> 00:06:43,300 was in our hometown of lithium, and he turned up, and it wasn't 115 00:06:43,300 --> 00:06:47,800 a publishing company, it was a call center selling advertising 116 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,220 space. So he did that for two weeks, and he was good, like on 117 00:06:51,220 --> 00:06:54,340 the phones, like he was as good as a 16 year old can be cold 118 00:06:54,340 --> 00:06:57,160 calling. And he said, I've got this like thing. They've said, 119 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,040 Do you want to stay on for the summer? Another friend went and 120 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,160 joined, and then they said, Well, do you want they went, who 121 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,260 else do you know? And I was knocking about with him, and he 122 00:07:04,260 --> 00:07:07,260 was like, why don't you just come in and do this? And I 123 00:07:07,260 --> 00:07:10,500 turned up, and I remember, like, the first day they give you a 124 00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:12,600 piece of paper. We're talking 2007 125 00:07:13,860 --> 00:07:17,100 sometime like the the computers, like at the Internet wasn't 126 00:07:17,100 --> 00:07:19,620 massive. There was a yellow pages for Wolverhampton. They 127 00:07:19,620 --> 00:07:22,400 were like, right? You're booking meetings in Wolverhampton. Start 128 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,400 at the front or the back. There's your script. Good luck 129 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,460 going gone book some appointments for Ben Jones, 130 00:07:28,460 --> 00:07:32,060 who's like out in Wolverhampton and he wants to go and sell some 131 00:07:32,060 --> 00:07:32,960 advertising space. 132 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:39,080 Wow. So was you getting paid for that job? Yeah, I think looking 133 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,620 back, it worked out was on about two pound an hour 134 00:07:42,700 --> 00:07:47,980 commission. There was commission. So, so I didn't earn 135 00:07:48,100 --> 00:07:52,180 any commission the first year, and I think the back end of the 136 00:07:52,180 --> 00:07:55,900 second year, I one deal close for like a grand, and I got like 137 00:07:55,900 --> 00:08:01,020 5% of something. But I was really good at booking 138 00:08:01,020 --> 00:08:03,600 appointment, but you know, you were the top Booker. I was the 139 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,200 top Booker, but nothing ever closed, nothing ever closed, 140 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,320 except maybe one deal, apart from one at the back end. Maybe, 141 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,500 maybe that's like a self serving memory that I've added in there 142 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:17,520 to make me not feel as bad as about being crap at sales. But 143 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,120 the first day, everyone was, like, buzzing about me. They 144 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,220 were like, you're going to be so good, you're going to be so 145 00:08:22,220 --> 00:08:25,280 good. But, like, I thought rapport was the way forward. If 146 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,160 you can be their friend, they're going to, like, buy from you. 147 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,640 And I used to say things like, oh, we'll just come down and 148 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,800 we'll have a couple, we'll bring some jammy Dodgers, and we'll 149 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:38,780 just turn up. Like, it was very, like, pushy, needy, no. Problem 150 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,040 wasn't solving anything. It was just like, let's just come down 151 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,860 and like, oh, Ben's a lovely lad. He just wants to meet you. 152 00:08:45,220 --> 00:08:47,620 It was very much. And people would turn up and they'd be 153 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,320 like, the decision makers aren't here. I'm just the tea lady. 154 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:53,020 Well, she probably need the jammy Dodgers. Yeah, exactly. 155 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,420 They never took jammy Dodgers. I always got in trouble 156 00:08:56,500 --> 00:08:59,200 for that. So what made you the top Booker? Then if you say you 157 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,740 were crap, what made you the top Booker, because I was booking 158 00:09:01,740 --> 00:09:04,440 appointments with people that weren't decision makers, right? 159 00:09:04,500 --> 00:09:07,440 I was, I was just shoving anything through. I'd ring you 160 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,740 and you go, like, yeah, maybe like, send me an email. Cool, 161 00:09:10,740 --> 00:09:13,740 Tuesday at three, yeah, or whatever. Your counterfeit. No. 162 00:09:13,740 --> 00:09:17,280 Okay, counterfeit, yes, it is right. Just take that and I'd be 163 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,840 like, sick, another one. Obviously, nothing was recorded. 164 00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:24,200 What I said happened on the phone was like, and I go away, 165 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,140 and I Oh, they've got this massive budget for a perimeter 166 00:09:27,140 --> 00:09:31,640 board, and I'd paint a picture, right? So top Booker may be the 167 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,980 wrong metric to be measuring, but the one that makes you look 168 00:09:33,980 --> 00:09:39,260 the best. Yeah, exactly right. Okay. And then you had a uni job 169 00:09:39,260 --> 00:09:42,820 selling Ivas. So again, cold calling, but this time the 170 00:09:42,820 --> 00:09:47,380 public asking their sort of, you know, 10,000 pounds in debt, was 171 00:09:47,380 --> 00:09:51,040 that a smile and dial job, or was there a strategy there that 172 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,860 that was, here's, I don't even know how they got away with it, 173 00:09:53,860 --> 00:09:56,140 but they were like, here's members of the random public. 174 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,920 There's no intent. Ring people up and say, I'm calling from. 175 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,720 IVA company, do you have 10 grand worth of debt? And it was 176 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,380 probably one of the lowest points of my life, like you. 177 00:10:07,380 --> 00:10:10,500 Just imagine calling someone up and saying, are you in debt? If 178 00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:13,260 you're not in debt, you're going to be pissed off. If you are in 179 00:10:13,260 --> 00:10:16,920 debt, you're probably going to be pissed off. So was it the 180 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,920 lowest point, one of the lowest points in your life or your 181 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:21,120 career? Because that's different. 182 00:10:22,380 --> 00:10:25,640 I just remember, like, it was while I was at university this 183 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,220 summer as well. And like, obviously, like, I was going out 184 00:10:28,220 --> 00:10:31,820 and I was still partying and waking up hungover, and I think 185 00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:35,660 the hours were something like 10 to eight, and just like, 186 00:10:35,660 --> 00:10:39,800 strolling into this office, and like, all the management were 187 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,300 thick, everybody was an idiot. And then I've just got to, like, 188 00:10:43,300 --> 00:10:46,720 call people and be like, do you have debt? And like that. That 189 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,500 was, like, the I think it was like, not a low point, but it 190 00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:53,860 was like, so demotivating, because, like, yeah. And then 191 00:10:53,860 --> 00:10:56,920 when, when people like, yeah, you're hearing stories, and 192 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,840 you're like, Oh, your your life sounds really bad. And now I've 193 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,660 just like, I'm not even selling to you. I'm just a therapist, 194 00:11:03,660 --> 00:11:05,940 and actually, you don't even qualify for an iba. And they're 195 00:11:05,940 --> 00:11:07,980 like, Yeah, I've got loads of debt. I've spent it all on. Do 196 00:11:08,220 --> 00:11:10,440 you know I mean, TVs from bright side or whatever? 197 00:11:11,820 --> 00:11:12,420 mark ackers: So 198 00:11:14,220 --> 00:11:16,260 Jack Frimston: I can see why that would be difficult. I 199 00:11:16,260 --> 00:11:19,920 suppose I'm trying to ascertain why you took that home. Do you 200 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,940 know what I mean that that those back. Like, I'm thinking of you 201 00:11:22,940 --> 00:11:27,560 at university, partying, you're studying, you know, you're going 202 00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:30,560 to go on to better things. Yeah, it's obviously a difficult job 203 00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:33,740 at the time, but surely, clock in, clock out, leave your 204 00:11:33,740 --> 00:11:36,320 problems there. But it sounds like you maybe had those 205 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,080 problems linger a little bit longer, yeah? Like, I definitely 206 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,700 like, let that like, resonate, like it like, you know, like, 207 00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:48,040 when you look back at jobs, you don't remember like, the days or 208 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,560 like the thing, you just remember the feeling, yeah, and 209 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,900 I look back at that, and like, luckily, I was working with a 210 00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:55,600 friend at the time, but then, like, I remember them being off 211 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,420 for like, a week or two, and like, you're surrounded by, 212 00:11:58,420 --> 00:12:02,580 like, I was like 20 Surrounded by like, 50 year old men that 213 00:12:02,580 --> 00:12:05,880 were all out in the evenings doing Class A drugs. And you're 214 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,600 like, what this was in Carlisle? Not nothing bad against 215 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,040 Carlisle, but, like, it just wasn't a fun place to be. It was 216 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,600 a very dingy, dark call center where you just, like doing the 217 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,080 same thing, and it's like you're not allowed to even, like, go 218 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,480 for a toilet break or whatever. Like, it's just very much like, 219 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,300 back on the phones, come on dial. You need to hit your KPIs, 220 00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:29,900 you need to do 100 you need to just like, oh, I need the money. 221 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,340 Yeah, Carlisle, good night out. It was a good night out. Was 222 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,060 also is, I've not had a night out in Carlisle in about a 223 00:12:38,060 --> 00:12:42,760 decade, right? So who knows? Now, I'm sure 2024, it's banging 224 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,480 what? What did you learn from those two jobs at appointment 225 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:47,620 setting and cold call in the 226 00:12:49,300 --> 00:12:52,540 public? I think anybody that cold calls, because I did it 227 00:12:52,540 --> 00:12:57,580 from such a young age, like 16 to 17, and then you going on to 228 00:12:57,580 --> 00:13:01,020 like 20 like, it just becomes a bit of the norm. Whereas I 229 00:13:01,020 --> 00:13:03,240 think, like, when you're like, when you do it, when you're 230 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,000 older, it doesn't feel like, like, I always talk about, like, 231 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,640 the fear of rejection. I'm like, I've done it. I've had, like, 232 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,260 when, when we call for wham. Now, like, it's very rare. Like, 233 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,220 I can't remember the last time someone was like, really awful 234 00:13:17,220 --> 00:13:20,300 to me. Like, like, it because it doesn't happen. Like, you get 235 00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:23,960 the odd person that's a bit shirty, but like, they're not, 236 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:29,720 like, awful, awful. Whereas back then, like, I probably blocked 237 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,060 out all the memories. I can't remember the specifics of it, 238 00:13:32,060 --> 00:13:34,760 but people were like, because they're members of the public as 239 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,460 well, you shouldn't be calling it like, shouting at you. And 240 00:13:37,460 --> 00:13:39,740 then you just, like, It startled you. And like, you're a young 241 00:13:39,740 --> 00:13:42,940 man, and you're like, oh, is this what happens as you get 242 00:13:42,940 --> 00:13:47,500 older? People like torture. You like this. Obviously, calling 243 00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:50,020 the public and calling businesses are different, but, 244 00:13:50,020 --> 00:13:53,860 but equally, you'd have got much but, like you are well known now 245 00:13:53,860 --> 00:13:56,680 for cold calling you. Lot of people look up to you and follow 246 00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:59,740 your content and calling cold calling. So is there an element 247 00:13:59,740 --> 00:14:02,640 of though, when you're calling today, the reason people are 248 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,160 more receptive, it's just simply because you're better at it. 249 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,520 Like, can you think back to what your calls may have sounded like 250 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:14,400 then versus now? Yeah, it would have been all me. How do I how 251 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,120 do I get everything about our proposition over to them? 252 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,340 Because, like, you don't under until that, that phrase of like, 253 00:14:22,340 --> 00:14:25,400 people don't care about you, your problem, your website, what 254 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,640 your solution, whatever like, until I knew that it was very 255 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,280 much like, how are they going to know that we're like an award 256 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,800 winning business? How do they know that we've saved millions, 257 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,760 1000s in Ivas? They're not going to know that, whereas they don't 258 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,080 care. So how do I make it so I was running in there, yapping at 259 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,260 people, and then all of a sudden you're a bit like people like, 260 00:14:44,380 --> 00:14:47,500 I'm bored of this that some mockney guys just cold called 261 00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:50,200 me, and I don't want to talk to him. I've never done this, you 262 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,740 know, I've sat down with reps one to ones about 10 years. And 263 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,380 so say you've got someone that isn't hitting their number, I 264 00:14:56,380 --> 00:14:58,780 would always be like, so how come is not hitting your number? 265 00:14:58,780 --> 00:14:59,920 What you've been doing this? Look. 266 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,060 mark ackers: Activity. And like, Steve was like, No, I'd do a 267 00:15:03,060 --> 00:15:05,880 discovery call on them, how much you think that's cost you in 268 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,960 commission. And he was like, why the fuck have I never thought to 269 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,900 do that? And he's like, No, I'd say to them, so you've not hit 270 00:15:13,020 --> 00:15:15,540 your number. How long you not being hit your number for? 271 00:15:15,540 --> 00:15:18,240 What's the reason for that? How long is that? How much reckon 272 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,260 that's cost you in commission? Talk to me about your long term 273 00:15:21,260 --> 00:15:24,620 goals. How much further away are you? Yeah, big gap. I just feel 274 00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:28,640 like that's so fucking obvious. I've never put a rep and a one 275 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,120 to one for a pain funnel against their own goals. I like that 276 00:15:32,300 --> 00:15:35,240 really obviously, yeah, I'm gonna use that. So how did you 277 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,480 make that switch? Then? Like, from having the calls all about 278 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,600 they need to hear about our award winning services. They 279 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,780 need to hear about how good we are to it's not about me, it's 280 00:15:43,780 --> 00:15:46,660 about them. How did you learn to make that switch 281 00:15:47,860 --> 00:15:52,120 Jack Frimston: to that? That switch didn't happen until 282 00:15:52,660 --> 00:15:57,220 probably, like, eight, nine years later. Like, I think I got 283 00:15:57,220 --> 00:16:01,860 more awareness. But like, I think what, what happened is, as 284 00:16:01,860 --> 00:16:04,560 I progressed through my sales jobs, and I've had like, various 285 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,520 different sales jobs, they give you like the bit, and then they 286 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,100 give you like you get better training. So when I worked at, 287 00:16:12,660 --> 00:16:16,320 mark ackers: sorry, sorry, we can keep rolling. So when I 288 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:16,560 worked@read.co.uk 289 00:16:17,940 --> 00:16:20,900 Jack Frimston: they like, gave me Sandler Training. So Sandler 290 00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:23,180 Training was, like, really understanding, like the pain, 291 00:16:23,180 --> 00:16:27,620 but I still didn't, like get it, but I knew the questions to ask. 292 00:16:27,620 --> 00:16:31,220 I knew the the path to go down, like when I was working, like 293 00:16:31,220 --> 00:16:35,180 commercial insurance, the first thing that you had to ask was, 294 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,080 what? What are their needs? Right? Which makes sense. So I 295 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,760 was asking the questions, but then it's like, it's only been 296 00:16:43,060 --> 00:16:46,480 later on in life that I've really understood the 297 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,840 psychology. And I think it's like, you can train somebody to 298 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,980 have the here are the here are the things to do. But if 299 00:16:53,980 --> 00:16:56,800 somebody doesn't understand why they're doing it, they can, 300 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,980 like, learn the move that they can't, like, win the fight, if 301 00:16:59,980 --> 00:17:03,960 that make sense? Yeah. So just help do some maths for me here. 302 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,080 How long you been in sales? About 16 years. 16 years, and 303 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,600 you just said there you didn't make that switch for eight or 304 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,360 nine years. You were already, like, a year into your career, 305 00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:15,960 so to speak. Yeah. So really, what we're saying here is the 306 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,800 first 10 of your 16 years, you weren't doing the right thing. 307 00:17:19,860 --> 00:17:25,820 1,000,000% is that it's the same year, 10 times over. So so let's 308 00:17:25,820 --> 00:17:31,100 think so I moved to London in when I was 21 and then I moved 309 00:17:31,100 --> 00:17:35,180 out of London for when I was like 27 so that's six years. 310 00:17:35,180 --> 00:17:38,540 Within those six years, I had four jobs, four different sales 311 00:17:38,540 --> 00:17:43,000 jobs that I wasn't very good at, and I probably got better at, 312 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,420 but definitely by the point I was in the last job, I was 313 00:17:46,420 --> 00:17:51,220 better. But thinking from me now to me then, 314 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,620 I sometimes wish that me now could go back and do those like 315 00:17:56,740 --> 00:17:59,800 cruddy sales jobs. So I'm like, I would have done it so much 316 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,760 differently. I would have been so much better. And also 317 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,120 thinking about like mindset, like sales, for me, is an 318 00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:08,580 umbrella of two things, communication and mindset. So 319 00:18:08,580 --> 00:18:11,940 the communication wasn't there. I was still Dell boy. But as the 320 00:18:11,940 --> 00:18:15,780 years progressed, maybe a watered down version, still 321 00:18:15,780 --> 00:18:18,360 trying to build rapport. Somebody on the other end of the 322 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:21,440 phone says, Yeah, I'm doing this because I've got three kids. Oh, 323 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,200 I've got three kids. And it was like, all fake, like, sunshiny 324 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,140 rapport, the stuff that I now take the mickey out of on 325 00:18:27,140 --> 00:18:31,220 LinkedIn. But it was only like later on where I, like, really 326 00:18:31,220 --> 00:18:34,460 started to, like, understand and become, like, a good seller. But 327 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,020 the mindset wasn't there either. I was like, I was like, I wasn't 328 00:18:39,020 --> 00:18:42,520 when you think about what a high performer is no way, nowhere 329 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,400 near I wasn't putting the reps in outside of work. It was very 330 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,820 much nine to five, turn up, do the bit. Don't think about it. 331 00:18:49,180 --> 00:18:54,700 Was what I learned in, like, the last three, four years, if you 332 00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:59,380 like, it doesn't take a lot. So, like, if you put a few hours in 333 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,880 before work, like, you commute. You put that commute time in, 334 00:19:03,060 --> 00:19:06,060 you start listening to podcasts, you start, like, researching. 335 00:19:06,180 --> 00:19:08,460 You put the recipe in while you're in work, and then you put 336 00:19:08,460 --> 00:19:11,220 a bit of work outside of work. It doesn't take long until, 337 00:19:11,220 --> 00:19:14,400 like, you kind of like, overtake other people that aren't putting 338 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,220 the work in. Like, to be in the top 5% of sellers, you gotta 339 00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:20,100 think that 95% of people probably aren't doing anything. 340 00:19:20,100 --> 00:19:22,580 They've just got the experience. They're complacent. They're 341 00:19:22,580 --> 00:19:24,740 doing the same thing they've always done. Versus, like, if 342 00:19:24,740 --> 00:19:27,020 you put in a little bit of effort, the same with anything 343 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,440 like, you think about human beings, like, hardly anybody can 344 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,140 speak languages, but like, if you, if you put in a little bit 345 00:19:33,140 --> 00:19:35,420 of effort, then you'll probably speak, you'll be in the top 5% 346 00:19:35,780 --> 00:19:40,100 of bilingual human beings. Maybe don't check the maths on that 347 00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:43,300 one. You get the point. Can we just get a fact check? Yeah, 348 00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:47,320 please, yeah. Um, so here's, here's what's really 349 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,340 interesting. You said you wished if you now could go back. 350 00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:54,580 Effectively, what you're saying is, when you started off in 351 00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:58,360 those jobs, if you had access to someone that had already done it 352 00:19:58,720 --> 00:19:59,920 and walked the path that you. 353 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,060 mark ackers: Want to walk, you'd have done things differently. 354 00:20:04,260 --> 00:20:07,680 That Jack would have existed, right? You would have been able 355 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,920 to find and work with someone that already done that. If you 356 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:16,020 could go back to that, that person effectively give you, 357 00:20:16,020 --> 00:20:19,500 when you're sort of starting out in sales, access to someone 358 00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:22,100 that's walked the path that you're about to walk, had 359 00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:25,460 success in those roles that it would have fundamentally changed 360 00:20:25,460 --> 00:20:29,480 what you did and the results that you had obviously, like 361 00:20:29,540 --> 00:20:33,200 those people exist like right now. You're on a path. What, 362 00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:35,900 what do you think the impact would have been if you could 363 00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:40,600 have worked with a coach at that early age that could have helped 364 00:20:41,860 --> 00:20:44,380 Jack Frimston: you. I think the majority of sales jobs are, 365 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:48,220 here's your product knowledge, get in and, like, start selling. 366 00:20:48,220 --> 00:20:51,640 There's like, they say training, but there's actually not sales 367 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,600 training. I think what, what I definitely would have needed is 368 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,260 someone to, like, unlock my motivation. Okay, so my 369 00:20:59,260 --> 00:21:01,560 motivation was all about everything that was happening 370 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,340 outside of work. Now, I've always had the mindset of, while 371 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,540 what, even if I like, I'm not pursuing a career in insurance, 372 00:21:09,540 --> 00:21:13,680 right? I'm there, my mindset and my work ethic was always, while 373 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,440 I'm here, I'm going to work as hard as I can, I'm going to put 374 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,960 I'm going to put 100% in anyway. But like, I wasn't trying to get 375 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:25,100 better. It was more like, you're like, being busy isn't 376 00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:28,160 necessarily being productive. Like, working hard isn't like, 377 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,280 necessarily working smart. So I think I needed somebody to 378 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:35,120 maybe, like, show me the way of like, okay, let's, let's sit 379 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:36,800 down with you. What are you trying to do? What are you 380 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,500 trying to, like, unlock what I'm trying to do this outside, and 381 00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:43,660 I'm trying to get to this. Okay? And what from within, from 382 00:21:43,660 --> 00:21:46,780 within work and your career, what? What would that? How can 383 00:21:46,780 --> 00:21:49,660 we get you there by doing this? Do you know, I mean, so if it's 384 00:21:49,660 --> 00:21:52,420 like a well, if I had more money, I'd be able to do this, 385 00:21:52,420 --> 00:21:56,020 this and this, I think it's like unpicking those different 386 00:21:56,020 --> 00:22:00,540 motivation points, and that's kind of what I lacked. And I 387 00:22:00,540 --> 00:22:05,580 think it's so Hindsight is beautiful. And like, like, I'm 388 00:22:05,580 --> 00:22:09,060 grateful for where I'm at now, but like, you just kind of wish 389 00:22:09,060 --> 00:22:11,580 somebody had, like, switched on the lights and be like, just so 390 00:22:11,580 --> 00:22:15,060 you know you're doing this wrong, X, Y and Zed, if you just 391 00:22:15,060 --> 00:22:18,540 make a few tweaks, it's not even, like, massive tweaks, but 392 00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:22,580 a few tweaks. Then Then you move completely in a different 393 00:22:22,580 --> 00:22:26,540 direction. How much that was down to you, though, not being 394 00:22:26,540 --> 00:22:29,660 unless, you know, remember, you were sort of 20 at the time, 395 00:22:29,660 --> 00:22:32,240 ish, maybe a bit younger, maybe a bit older. But how much is 396 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,060 down to you just weren't mature enough at that point to realize 397 00:22:35,060 --> 00:22:39,260 that, or that is a reflection of the environment that you're in. 398 00:22:39,260 --> 00:22:41,500 You know, the way you've described those jobs sound like, 399 00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:45,580 you know, little grubby offices where that's not going to be 400 00:22:45,580 --> 00:22:48,520 there to inspire and motivate you. So how much of that is down 401 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,520 to you as an individual, not being open minded, mature, 402 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,040 whatever you want to call it, versus using the wrong place? 403 00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:58,660 I think, yeah, 1 million. I think a lot of them, not, not 404 00:22:58,660 --> 00:23:01,620 all of the jobs that I worked in, but a lot of them were like, 405 00:23:01,860 --> 00:23:04,620 the wrong place that don't inspire, they don't motivate 406 00:23:04,620 --> 00:23:09,720 you. And I think, like, that's like a lot of salespeople, like, 407 00:23:09,780 --> 00:23:14,340 especially when we think about like, SDRs, AES, a lot of them 408 00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:19,080 are like, 20 to 30. And within 20 to 30 there's that question 409 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,580 mark of, like, what is my life? What am I doing? Where am I 410 00:23:22,580 --> 00:23:27,020 going to be? I'm probably like, 2526 I'm like, this isn't the 411 00:23:27,020 --> 00:23:30,560 path I thought I'd be on. I'm just working like a crawly sales 412 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,280 job. What's the point? Whereas it's like, you can twist that 413 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,400 completely and you can be like, imagine if I got really good at 414 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,800 this, imagine what person I could be. Imagine how it would 415 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,520 change my life. And like, now, I mean, I'm lucky to be in that 416 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,700 position where I'm like, I'm so grateful for all of that. But 417 00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:50,680 the time you just, you don't realize, and obviously you you 418 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,980 then find yourself now in a position where you can make that 419 00:23:53,980 --> 00:23:57,940 change. We'll come to what you're doing now later. I found 420 00:23:58,180 --> 00:24:00,820 it really interesting. We don't need to do anything else, but 421 00:24:00,820 --> 00:24:04,380 you move to London then. And you had a two hour commute. Why 422 00:24:04,860 --> 00:24:07,560 don't you just move close to your job, or get a job closer to 423 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,700 where you are? London's massive London is massive, and a 21 year 424 00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:16,020 old is stupid. That's all I can say. But like so, and the 425 00:24:16,020 --> 00:24:18,540 annoying thing was, it was, like, it was actually quite 426 00:24:18,540 --> 00:24:22,340 close in, like, location wise. But what I had to do is I had to 427 00:24:22,340 --> 00:24:26,660 get the tube from where I lived into the city center, and then I 428 00:24:26,660 --> 00:24:30,320 had to get another tube back out to the city center. So it was 429 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,080 like, like, out of there and then end up there. So it was 430 00:24:33,140 --> 00:24:36,380 like, 12 commute every single day, starting work at nine 431 00:24:36,380 --> 00:24:38,720 o'clock. You're leaving at seven. You're getting home at 432 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:43,840 seven. It was like, those are the jobs I talked about, the IVA 433 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,860 place, this one as well. I was only there for five months, but 434 00:24:47,860 --> 00:24:52,120 that makes my belly like, it gives me that, like, feeling 435 00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:56,140 like, oh, did I really do that? And then I got a little bit 436 00:24:56,140 --> 00:24:58,840 smart and went, Oh, imagine if I didn't have a job here and I 437 00:24:58,840 --> 00:24:59,920 could just. 438 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,240 Do an hour commute in London like everybody else. Yeah, and 439 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,880 then that's Reed, isn't it? That's where you went next, 440 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,120 yeah, I went to read next. So, like, I interviewed for two 441 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,880 companies. I got a job offer@read.co.uk 442 00:25:13,380 --> 00:25:16,320 and I got offered a job in recruitment. The recruitment job 443 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:21,200 paid two grand more. So the recruitment job was 22 and Reid 444 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,960 was 20k and I was like, I'm going to take the recruitment 445 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,660 job for 2k more. And my family were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, 446 00:25:26,660 --> 00:25:29,300 slow down. Slow down. Cab where they were like, right? This is 447 00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:31,580 like, a little unknown recruitment job, like, the 448 00:25:31,580 --> 00:25:34,520 commute still a little bit far. They're like, this is Reed, 449 00:25:34,580 --> 00:25:38,300 massive company office in Covent Garden. Look at what they do for 450 00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:41,500 all their staff on a monthly basis. Like, just, just don't be 451 00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:44,140 hasty, just for a couple of grand more. And I was like, I 452 00:25:44,140 --> 00:25:46,120 was still young. I was like, Yeah, whatever. Then I'll take 453 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:49,960 that one best decision, the recruitment job I probably would 454 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,720 have lasted three months, and I would have hated it. Reed was 455 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,740 one, one of the best places to work. Like, I still have very 456 00:25:56,980 --> 00:26:01,740 fond memories of them. And they were a company that did give a 457 00:26:01,740 --> 00:26:04,440 shit about their people and did care about getting them better 458 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,340 at sales. Was I self aware enough to take it all on board? 459 00:26:08,820 --> 00:26:13,320 Probably not, and I thought that I knew better, but I think 460 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:18,480 that's ego of a 22 year old. And you were really honest with me 461 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,160 when we sort of spoke about Reid before off camera, you said that 462 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,060 you got promoted too quickly. And the only person in Reid, 463 00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:29,000 don't mean to laugh, but the only person in Reed history to 464 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,140 get demoted, demoted. What the hell happened there? I was 465 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,120 very confident. Went in and, like, I think, like, like most, 466 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,300 they probably hired loads and loads of young people. And I 467 00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:43,360 saw, like, every month there was a new influx. And, like, I was 468 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:45,580 on the phone, I was doing really, really well. And they 469 00:26:45,580 --> 00:26:48,640 were like, this kid is good. This kid's doing something. And 470 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:54,040 I was like, I was selling low of value stuff, 300 400 pound. 471 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,240 Like, imagine if we put him on the three, 4k stuff. Like, he's 472 00:26:58,420 --> 00:27:02,700 really good. So he's like, move desk. I moved so that was there, 473 00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:05,580 and then I moved two desks to the higher value, and I've only 474 00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:08,400 been there a few months. And I was like, Hey guys, yeah, like, 475 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,280 all confident. And then I think a month in, nothing could 476 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,280 happen. They were like, I think we've been too hasty. We're 477 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,120 gonna move you back down. And like, I was like, I'm the only 478 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:22,160 person in history to be demotivated, 479 00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:25,820 mark ackers: demoted and demoted, demoted and 480 00:27:25,820 --> 00:27:28,700 demotivated. That's the one. Yeah. How did you deal with 481 00:27:28,700 --> 00:27:32,900 that? Because there is that. Oh, sorry, guys. Let me just pick up 482 00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:36,680 my pen and pencil and phone and move to two decks down, or 483 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,040 whatever it was like, how, how did you not let that beat you? 484 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,940 And where you think I just need to leave, because I can imagine 485 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:45,940 making that move, and everyone's seeing it as well. 486 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,080 Must be like, you say, demotivating, but how did you 487 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:50,620 cope with her? 488 00:27:52,900 --> 00:27:56,020 Jack Frimston: You know what? I think it was one of those, like, 489 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,600 I just took it on the chin. Like, like, I really like, and 490 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,800 that's kind of been, like a bit of a mindset thing through life, 491 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,040 like it'll be what it is. I was, like, Cole, what? What's in my 492 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,160 control at this point? Probably subconsciously more so. But 493 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,120 like, Colt, have been demoted. Let's have a laugh about it. 494 00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:17,580 Everyone's gonna take the piss anyway, so I might as well join 495 00:28:17,580 --> 00:28:21,980 in, and then, just like, focus on getting good, back where I 496 00:28:21,980 --> 00:28:24,980 was, and then I was only, I was only there for another year, and 497 00:28:24,980 --> 00:28:29,540 then classic, young salesperson, I moved to another company with 498 00:28:29,540 --> 00:28:32,720 bigger dreams and hopes of bigger commission, and that 499 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:37,520 didn't come to fruition well before that. This is, we don't 500 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,480 need again to dwell on this, but I need to hear more. This was 501 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,620 the boy band phase, the boy band phase. So at this point, had you 502 00:28:44,620 --> 00:28:48,160 decided sales was the career for you, but you need to go and do 503 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,160 this? Or were you still unsure if you went to be in sales long 504 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,880 term? I knew that I was, well, I say, I knew that I was never 505 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,520 going to be in sales full time. I was like, sales is a stop gap, 506 00:28:57,580 --> 00:28:58,000 1,000,000% 507 00:28:59,620 --> 00:29:03,420 32 year old, sat here now sales full time. I'm going to be doing 508 00:29:03,420 --> 00:29:06,780 sales for the rest of my life now. Like I know that at the 509 00:29:06,780 --> 00:29:10,920 time, was like, it's a stopgap. I was like, I'm in a boy band. I 510 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,580 say boy band. We thought we were a cool indie band. We weren't. 511 00:29:14,820 --> 00:29:18,300 And I thought, like, this boy band is going to take off. We're 512 00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:22,700 going to be the next big thing. Move over. JLS, we're in town. 513 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,880 We're taking over. I was like, just do this until it takes on, 514 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,800 like we were so confident that it was going to happen. I was 515 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,800 like, I'll just, I'll just keep doing this until we get there 516 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,800 again. Though, is that not a reflection of the reason why you 517 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,660 probably didn't have the the mindset to be successful in 518 00:29:40,660 --> 00:29:44,800 sales, then, yeah, 1,000,000% like, I remember, like, being on 519 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,820 the phone, but then I'm like, my head is somewhere else. I'm 520 00:29:48,820 --> 00:29:51,040 like, dreaming about, oh, what would it be like to play the oh 521 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,040 two arena whereas I'm mid conversation, how can you 522 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,000 communicate effectively and be a good listener and ask thought 523 00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,920 folking questions if you're not even in the. 524 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,060 Conversation, if you're just going through the motions, it's 525 00:30:03,060 --> 00:30:06,480 like, I say to my team, like, you can't just, you can't. Like, 526 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,560 we all do it. We all fall into autopilot. But like, you can't, 527 00:30:10,620 --> 00:30:14,580 like, if you really want to be present, you have to be there in 528 00:30:14,580 --> 00:30:18,360 that moment. And like, genuinely care about what you're listening 529 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,200 to, genuinely care about those problems that you're listening 530 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,440 to, and think, How can I ask a good question next? Whereas, if 531 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,480 you're like, right, okay, oh, what? Sorry, you said that. 532 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,600 Right. What's next to my script? Cole, I was just thinking about 533 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,040 another song that I could write like it's I wasn't present at my 534 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:39,140 head was elsewhere. So again, totally understand exactly what 535 00:30:39,140 --> 00:30:41,560 you're saying. And if you've got bigger dreams, you've got to 536 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,140 pursue them. And you did that, the boy band phase, as you 537 00:30:44,140 --> 00:30:47,680 called it. That's not my, my words there, but what was the 538 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,660 name of the band? Oh, the tailor made. The tailor made is in, 539 00:30:52,660 --> 00:30:55,360 like, a tailor made suit, yeah, not like golf, but like, like 540 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,420 the tailor made suit. So that was a band. The tailor made, the 541 00:30:58,420 --> 00:31:03,300 tailor made, um, kind of music, indie, kind of a bit scouting 542 00:31:03,300 --> 00:31:07,680 for girls. I love scouting for, like, if you asked me, were you 543 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,000 good, I'd say, No, did we do all right, yeah, we got lucky. We 544 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,540 won some decent competitions. We went on tour. We, like, we were, 545 00:31:15,540 --> 00:31:18,480 like, went on tour like Tom Jones, the beach, woods. I like, 546 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:23,840 got to, sorry, Tom Jones is in, like, the Welsh Tom Jones. 547 00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:31,580 Like, the Tom Jones, yeah. Like, we got to a point where, like, 548 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,920 we were playing to people of like, 15,000 like, like, I don't 549 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,060 want to clang. It feels all like, oh, icky. But like, seal 550 00:31:41,060 --> 00:31:43,600 told me that you've literally called it a boy band phase, 551 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,380 yeah, but it's a podcast about sales, isn't it? It's not about, 552 00:31:47,380 --> 00:31:50,800 like, the The LJ, literally, you've got boy band phase. I'm 553 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,640 here, in here Tom Jones and 15,000 people. We, we did all 554 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,300 right, like, we, we did quite a lot bigger. So our, our manager 555 00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:01,140 that signed us, he was part of, like, Live Nation, so, like, he 556 00:32:01,140 --> 00:32:04,320 put us on all the tours. So we, like did George Ezra, we went on 557 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,000 tour with madness, which was wicked, 558 00:32:07,380 --> 00:32:09,240 mark ackers: of just clanging them all, all over the stage. 559 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:10,320 Can we pick these names 560 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,640 Jack Frimston: that we'll stop there? No, I want to hear more. 561 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,440 You'll like this one. We were crowned the best buskers in 562 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:20,900 London by Boris Johnson, 563 00:32:23,300 --> 00:32:26,000 this is a, this is a wine. I've heard it. I swear down. What are 564 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,380 you doing in sales? Why? No, because so then, like, one day, 565 00:32:30,380 --> 00:32:35,540 up until I was, like, working in my sales job, at the time, I was 566 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,220 like, 26 you want Spotify, yeah. But we're not, we aren't Mark 567 00:32:40,220 --> 00:32:43,840 hackers. We are not gonna play I think we need to play a bit now. 568 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,580 We're not gonna play the 569 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,560 mark ackers: This is awful. Where's this gun? Sorry, right. 570 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:51,760 I've got all your songs here. 571 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,960 The tailor made. It's official. Got that little blue tick as 572 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,620 well. So what's the best song? None of them are good. Oh, 573 00:32:59,620 --> 00:33:00,540 what's the best one, though, 574 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,400 I don't know. Well, living, living, loving, no, no, that's 575 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,000 rum and Red Bull. That sounds horrible. Rum and Red Bull. Take 576 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,020 me No, that's bad. Mr. Perfect. Really bad. So about you? Yeah, 577 00:33:13,020 --> 00:33:16,620 spinning around that's awful, right? Come on, pick a song, or 578 00:33:16,620 --> 00:33:19,620 I'm gonna pick one. Cougar in the corner. Cougar in the 579 00:33:19,620 --> 00:33:21,740 corner. Why can I not fight? Ah, got it. 580 00:33:25,340 --> 00:33:27,260 Jack Frimston: Oh, wow, is this stuff. Hang on, skip. 581 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,960 mark ackers: Mate, that's I'm gonna give this a Yeah. 582 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,620 Jack Frimston: How do I like follow? There we are. I don't 583 00:33:44,620 --> 00:33:47,560 think I follow anyone's spark. I promise you, there's no new 584 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,440 music coming anytime soon. So why? Why didn't that work out 585 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,600 then? So I was so I was working in an insurance company selling 586 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,960 insurance, and the majority of people that worked there were 587 00:33:59,020 --> 00:34:03,120 young artsy professionals, like singers, dancers. 10 people got 588 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,660 hired every month. Nine people got sacked every month. So, like 589 00:34:06,660 --> 00:34:07,680 one would ask, so 590 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,360 all three of the lads in the boy band started the job. One of the 591 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,720 lads got sacked for hanging up on people. One of the lads got 592 00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:18,600 moved to recruitment. And three years in, I was the only one 593 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,040 that survived in sales. But we would do, we were just doing 594 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,380 that, and then we, like, we'd say, right, we need a week off. 595 00:34:24,380 --> 00:34:27,020 We're going on tour. We're doing this, we're doing that. And we 596 00:34:27,020 --> 00:34:31,880 got a call one day, and we got a call, and it was our agent, it 597 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,840 was our manager and our tour promoter, and they just said, 598 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,600 You've not sold enough ticket. I think, like, we'd sold 100 in 599 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,980 London, 50 in Manchester, and eight in Carlisle. 600 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,820 We knew no one in car. So that was, no, it's uni there? Yeah, 601 00:34:45,820 --> 00:34:48,400 no, but no one was Carlisle's very own. No one stays in 602 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,240 Carlisle. So they pulled the tour. The tour got pulled. And 603 00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:54,940 then we were just like, What do you want to do now? And I was 604 00:34:54,940 --> 00:34:58,360 like, lads, I'm done. I'm so over this. I was like, I want to 605 00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:59,920 go traveling. I want to enjoy myself. 606 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,620 Of and that's how I ended up on the cruise ships, right? So it 607 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,560 kind of progresses. So it was like, sales, sales, sales, doing 608 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,500 music, trying to make a dream of that. That didn't work out. But 609 00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:13,320 I think it's like, it's an important lesson as well. Like, 610 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,860 I'm big on, like, chasing your dreams, but it's also important 611 00:35:16,860 --> 00:35:21,860 to know when to say that's not my dream anymore. Like, I would 612 00:35:21,860 --> 00:35:24,800 have it would have really, like, I mean, I wouldn't have known, 613 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,100 because I would have been doing it. But to be, like, 32 like, 614 00:35:28,220 --> 00:35:31,280 still, like living at my auntie's house, like trying to 615 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,620 make it in a boy band, I think it's like, there's points where 616 00:35:33,620 --> 00:35:36,920 your priorities change and you're, like, your fundamentals. 617 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,200 It's like, what do I like everything I do now with the 618 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,420 business and, like, the kind of the mission I'm on now, I get 619 00:35:43,420 --> 00:35:46,840 fulfilled in like, it's the same feeling as, like, performing to 620 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,100 a crowd, if that makes sense, like you're chasing the same 621 00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:54,520 kind of endorphin rush of like, when you close a big deal, or 622 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,580 like you have a great client succeed and things like that. 623 00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:02,340 Look, I love sales, right? Really passionate about it. I 624 00:36:02,340 --> 00:36:04,980 don't feel like I ever compared it to, like, sitting backstage 625 00:36:04,980 --> 00:36:09,720 with Tom Jones and 15,000 people singing my songs. But okay, 626 00:36:09,780 --> 00:36:13,980 whatever, whatever sort of helps you there. Um, so yeah, it felt 627 00:36:13,980 --> 00:36:17,640 like when I was going through sort of your background, sort of 628 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,480 preparing for the podcast, I felt like this was the point 629 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,780 where I was like, it feels like I lost his way here, right? We 630 00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:26,600 went from, and you literally called it a boy band phase. I've 631 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:31,040 never felt so lied to, but you literally said, like, I had all 632 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,280 these sales jobs boy band phase. Then it was, it was like, like, 633 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,000 you say, cruise ships, Amazon, warehouse. It felt like you lost 634 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,320 your way. And I was kind of wondering, why weren't you in 635 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:46,240 sales at that point? Yeah, so, like, I just the the music had 636 00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:49,780 ended, and I was young enough to say, I just want to, like, get 637 00:36:49,780 --> 00:36:52,720 away. I want to start again, do something. What can I do? I 638 00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:55,540 thought, well, you can have a roof over your head, go, go 639 00:36:55,540 --> 00:36:57,820 traveling, work on cruise ship. So I did that for a couple of 640 00:36:57,820 --> 00:37:00,360 years, and, like, and I enjoyed it, and it was great. And I 641 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,180 think, like, the communication skills that I had definitely 642 00:37:03,180 --> 00:37:06,960 helped me, like, on the first cruise ship, I was, like a bingo 643 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,260 host. The second cruise ship, I was in, like a rock band 644 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,280 performing on the stage. And then, like, pandemic hit. And 645 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,080 like, I was 28 and I'm at like, a real What do you do with your 646 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,040 life? And then I went back to England, like during the 647 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,860 pandemic. And then I was like, well, I need some pocket money. 648 00:37:24,860 --> 00:37:28,520 I'm gonna start working in Amazon. And then I was like, I 649 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,920 need to do something. My mate was like, I've got a spare room 650 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,160 in Manchester. Why don't you move to Manchester and just get 651 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,460 a sales job? I was like, sound like, I know them, like, bread 652 00:37:37,460 --> 00:37:42,340 and butter. I'm always gonna get a sales job, I just feel like, I 653 00:37:42,580 --> 00:37:44,860 don't know if you've been there, but like, I could just, you can 654 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,680 always find something, and you're like, I'll always have 655 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,400 enough money, because it's what I know my CV is, all right, even 656 00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:55,300 I've got the scattiest CV, like, I don't think, I don't think I'd 657 00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:59,680 hire me if I, if I interviewed for my job, like a job at my 658 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,880 company. Now, I think I'd look at my CV and go, This person is 659 00:38:02,940 --> 00:38:06,600 too scary. I don't know, like it's, it's, fills me with fear 660 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:11,400 all the things. But I landed another sales job, and that was 661 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,340 the point where it was like, This is it? There's no There's 662 00:38:14,340 --> 00:38:18,480 no boy band to fall back on. There's no cruise ship. I'm not 663 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:24,320 going back there. What happens now? So I'm like, 28 I was like, 664 00:38:24,860 --> 00:38:28,640 What is this path? Like, I'm approaching 30. You think, like, 665 00:38:28,820 --> 00:38:32,060 this is a point where I should have my shit figured out. I 666 00:38:32,060 --> 00:38:35,000 don't have anything figured out. I don't know what I'm doing. And 667 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,740 I was like, this is like the time to make change. I started 668 00:38:39,740 --> 00:38:43,360 thinking, and the change didn't come from, I'm going to get good 669 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,600 at sales. The change started coming from, like, self 670 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,840 development of, like, I'm reading the business books, you 671 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,440 know, like, all, like, the the David Goggin stuff, the Jesse, 672 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,200 it's that that was the stuff. And I was like, right? What if I 673 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,780 run a marathon? That would be good for your mindset, right? 674 00:38:58,780 --> 00:39:02,040 Okay, I did that. And then, like, I stayed in a monastery 675 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,740 and, like, I started, like, learning about like, mindset and 676 00:39:04,740 --> 00:39:09,780 all of those things. And then Zach, who's been my best friend 677 00:39:09,780 --> 00:39:14,400 of 1617, years, we went to high school together, he was like, 678 00:39:14,460 --> 00:39:17,340 I'm in the same point. He was like, I've been doing this sales 679 00:39:17,340 --> 00:39:21,560 job my company had just like, don't respect me. I've got a 680 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,560 baby on the way. He was like, he texted me. Was like, I've had a 681 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,960 brainwave. I was like, what? It's like, I'm gonna start my 682 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,700 own business. And then that's where the cogs of like, I'm at a 683 00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:34,460 point in my life where I don't know what I'm doing, I don't 684 00:39:34,460 --> 00:39:39,020 really know where I should go. He's on the same and he's like, 685 00:39:39,020 --> 00:39:42,520 I'm gonna make a leap. I'm going to do something. And I was like, 686 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,220 we were having conversations on a regular basis. And I was like, 687 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,240 there's enough room on that piece of wood for two. He was 688 00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:53,380 like, Why didn't join me? And then that's when the next 689 00:39:53,380 --> 00:39:56,680 chapter of life, I guess, after the cruise ship and the 690 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,920 pandemics, starts when you say that piece. 691 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,680 Would Are you referring to Jack and Rose? I was glad that you 692 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,260 picked up on the Titanic. Well, just cruise ships, Titanic. 693 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,520 Yeah. So before we open up that next chapter, obviously, that's 694 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,580 going to be a really interesting part of this podcast. Let's have 695 00:40:14,580 --> 00:40:17,100 some funny stories, right? You've obviously worked at a 696 00:40:17,100 --> 00:40:19,560 number of different sort of whether you want to use word 697 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:25,100 dodgy or not, jobs. And what is the when you look back in now, 698 00:40:25,220 --> 00:40:29,240 the funniest thing, or funny story from selling that springs 699 00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:34,580 to mind the first company when I first moved to London, like I 700 00:40:34,580 --> 00:40:38,360 remember interviewing, and like, I'm not, I'm not saying like I 701 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,740 was good at sales. I was crap at sailed, but I was switched on. 702 00:40:41,740 --> 00:40:44,140 And I think, like, it was a little area in edgeware, which 703 00:40:44,140 --> 00:40:47,680 is, like a shithole in London on the corner. Anyone watching this 704 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,400 in edgeware? Sorry, but like, I think I interviewed, and, like, 705 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,860 I was, like, around people that were also interviewing. I was 706 00:40:53,860 --> 00:40:57,220 like, I'm a bit different here. Like, I'm a bit more, like, 707 00:40:57,220 --> 00:41:01,320 switched on, everyone felt a bit slower. And I think, like, the 708 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,260 the Manage, the managers, I think they couldn't believe 709 00:41:04,260 --> 00:41:07,860 their luck. They were like, how was this guy? Like, got, got 710 00:41:07,860 --> 00:41:10,920 this, like, how's he ended up here? And, like, they they left. 711 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,260 They said, Jack, can you stay behind? They were like, We want 712 00:41:13,260 --> 00:41:16,080 you. We want to offer you a job on the spot right now. Will you 713 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,380 take it? I was like, Yeah, all right, first interview in 714 00:41:19,380 --> 00:41:22,700 London. Like, I just arrived, bags packed ready to be in a boy 715 00:41:22,700 --> 00:41:24,860 band. And they were like, we'll give you a job. You can start 716 00:41:24,860 --> 00:41:27,200 tomorrow. I was like, Cool, I need a job. And it was 717 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,440 something. The wage was awful. It might be like, 16 grand a 718 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,160 year, and I was spending half of that on the big commute. So that 719 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:39,020 was going on, and that was selling insurance for sky. Now, 720 00:41:39,020 --> 00:41:42,460 I don't know if you realize, but if you've got sky and you box 721 00:41:42,460 --> 00:41:46,000 breaks, like, you just ring sky and they'll look after it, but, 722 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,940 but they had all these people's details, and we were like, 723 00:41:48,940 --> 00:41:52,240 ringing them up. And it was, it was a dodgy, manipulating 724 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:54,460 company, and they were like, ringing old people. And I was 725 00:41:54,460 --> 00:41:58,780 like, I don't feel like ethical doing this like you need to 726 00:41:58,780 --> 00:42:01,800 ensure you Sky remote. It's the same price as a domino as a 727 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,360 month like selling that one of the guys, the manager, like we 728 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,780 all, got called into a board, boardroom meeting, and I'd roped 729 00:42:09,780 --> 00:42:13,320 in the other two lads from the boy band at this time. So where 730 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,620 I went, they followed. And they were like, someone's been 731 00:42:16,620 --> 00:42:20,960 stealing bank details. I was like, What's up me? I'm looking 732 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,200 at my lads and like, not them. And then they called the manager 733 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,620 out. And they were like, right, he's gone right moving forward. 734 00:42:27,620 --> 00:42:29,840 They were like, Jack, can you stay behind? I paid about two 735 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,300 three months. They were like, You're, uh, you're the new 736 00:42:32,300 --> 00:42:35,540 manager, assistant manager to another guy, Assistant to the 737 00:42:35,540 --> 00:42:38,720 manager, yeah, like, 21 738 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,960 I was like, Oh, I'm now the sales manager. Like, what is 739 00:42:44,020 --> 00:42:46,420 this going to turn to a funny story, because this is so far, 740 00:42:46,420 --> 00:42:49,960 like, I'm bit depressed. Well, no, it's like, I don't think, 741 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,500 like, yeah, it's like, depressing. But also, like, I 742 00:42:53,500 --> 00:42:57,940 became the assistant sales manager, and then two weeks 743 00:42:57,940 --> 00:42:58,720 later I got sucked. 744 00:42:59,740 --> 00:43:02,220 So that's probably the, okay, there's the punchline. So what 745 00:43:02,220 --> 00:43:05,040 happened? Why did you get sacked? Somebody turned up for a 746 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,220 job interview. All the the owners of the company were on 747 00:43:08,220 --> 00:43:10,800 lunch, and I was like, I'm the assistant manager. I'll just do 748 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,560 it. And then they were like, you shouldn't have, like, gone above 749 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,540 your pay grade. I was like, Yeah, but I'm the assistant 750 00:43:15,540 --> 00:43:17,640 manager. You guys said that I was and they were like, yeah, 751 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,560 you've gone above your pay grade. You sucked. I was like, 752 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,340 right, Cole. And then I went and found read.co.uk, the UK is 753 00:43:22,340 --> 00:43:23,780 number one job site. Thankfully, 754 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,900 you're the coin for that. Yeah, every time I say it so funny. 755 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:35,420 No, but like dodgy and just like how things happen. But what I 756 00:43:35,420 --> 00:43:39,380 find funny is, as a sales manager, the first thing I did 757 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,180 was go to Google Images, type in motivational posters, print them 758 00:43:43,180 --> 00:43:46,420 all off on crappy eight, four, and stick all these things up on 759 00:43:46,420 --> 00:43:49,660 the wall that say you can do this. You got this. And I think 760 00:43:49,780 --> 00:43:54,400 back, and I go, how pathetic. So, okay, there was a punchline 761 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,700 there. What about, like, a funny story of a prospect, maybe the 762 00:43:57,700 --> 00:44:01,500 rudest call you've ever had, or the funniest sort of experience 763 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,660 you've had in sales with a customer prospect. 764 00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:10,920 I remember, I remember cold calling, cold calling, somebody 765 00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:14,580 tell them advertising space, and it was stables, and this woman 766 00:44:14,580 --> 00:44:17,640 was crying down the phone and said, nobody cares about the 767 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,360 horses. Why would you want to advertise? Nobody. Nobody in 768 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,420 like swearing, nobody cares about the horses. And I thought 769 00:44:23,420 --> 00:44:27,500 that was quite a unique take. Surely, some people do care 770 00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:28,340 about the horses. I'm 771 00:44:29,660 --> 00:44:31,640 mark ackers: not getting the funny stories, but I'm getting 772 00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:37,280 stories. Sorry, that's okay. So let's move on. Then you your 773 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,800 colleague, Zach, who, because I come on your podcast, yes, 774 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:44,680 couple years ago, he says, I'm going to start my own business. 775 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,200 That feels like a pretty precarious time for him to do 776 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,600 that if he's got a baby on the way. I can imagine those 777 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:54,220 conversations didn't go down too well at home, but you've decided 778 00:44:54,220 --> 00:44:56,980 I'm going to join I'm going to join the business. Talk to us 779 00:44:56,980 --> 00:44:59,920 about that like obviously people who follow you will know about. 780 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,840 But what, what was the big vision here? 781 00:45:04,860 --> 00:45:09,300 Jack Frimston: So Zach was, Zach was working in like, a 360 job 782 00:45:09,300 --> 00:45:13,140 where, like, he was the guy that went in, open the doors, via, 783 00:45:13,140 --> 00:45:16,680 via cold calling, and then he would sit the meetings, and then 784 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,260 he would close the deals, and then he'd pass it on, like, 785 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:20,540 okay, whatever it is. 786 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,760 He had one month's rent, and his wife was very supportive. She 787 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,880 was like, you you do it. You do you like, because it's one of 788 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,180 those. I think when you go into it with the mentality of this 789 00:45:32,180 --> 00:45:37,040 has got to work like, there's no other when we asked some of our 790 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,260 team, like, Oh, why did you hit commission this month, some of 791 00:45:39,260 --> 00:45:42,280 them were like, I had to. I've got other priorities outside of 792 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,300 work that I need to make sure that I'm hitting so, like, it's 793 00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:49,960 like, one of those that you've got to you've got to do it. So 794 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,040 Zach jumped in, and I think he was ringing a few people, and 795 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,040 they were saying to him, I don't need what you're selling me. But 796 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,160 what I do need is, like, I need someone like you to open the 797 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,180 doors for me. Do you want a job? So every third or fourth call 798 00:46:03,180 --> 00:46:06,600 people saying, like, I need someone like you to like and 799 00:46:06,780 --> 00:46:11,580 obviously we're big into like Sandler and Benjamin dennehys 800 00:46:11,580 --> 00:46:14,940 approach and things like that. And I think, like, he'd been 801 00:46:14,940 --> 00:46:18,240 listening to the to Benjamin Dennehy might win it podcast, 802 00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:20,540 and he was like, one of the things that they said between 803 00:46:20,540 --> 00:46:24,860 them is, if you are working from home during a pandemic and 804 00:46:24,860 --> 00:46:27,680 you're cold calling, you've not got someone leaning over your 805 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,560 shoulder, you should be doing this for yourself. And I think 806 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,380 one of Ben Benjamin dennays first job was appointment setter 807 00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:36,500 from massive marketing company, and that was like, I'm just 808 00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:39,980 going to do that. And like, there was some like, doubt 809 00:46:39,980 --> 00:46:42,760 around it. And then I think on his ninth call, someone was 810 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,240 like, if you can do that for me, then yeah, we'll go. And that 811 00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:49,960 was his first client. And then he got busy, and we were 812 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,020 obviously, we were talking once or twice a week anyway, as mates 813 00:46:53,020 --> 00:46:55,780 do, he's filling me in on his I'm telling him about how crap 814 00:46:55,780 --> 00:46:58,300 this is, but what I'm doing in my life. And he was like, there 815 00:46:58,300 --> 00:47:01,120 is an opportunity here. And then that's where it was like, right? 816 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,000 I'm going to go off. I'm going to start listening. Start 817 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,280 listening to the podcast, I'm going to start reading, I'm 818 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,980 going to, like, really put some time in. And then it got to a 819 00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:10,380 point that I think that was, like, in the summer, and then it 820 00:47:10,380 --> 00:47:12,960 got to the point by the January, I was like, right, I'm all in. 821 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,980 I'm joining, let's go. And this feels like the pivotal moment 822 00:47:16,980 --> 00:47:20,220 where, like, you say it was self development, it was realizing 823 00:47:20,220 --> 00:47:24,500 sales as a skill, one that you can properly learn. Um, just 824 00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:27,740 before, like, you started doing that, did you think at the time 825 00:47:27,740 --> 00:47:31,040 you were good at sales? Yeah, yeah, I thought I was good at 826 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,820 sales, but I was crap at sales. What's the difference there? 827 00:47:34,820 --> 00:47:37,640 Like, How good did you think you were, versus how crap were you 828 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,920 now, when you look back? So let's do it on a scale of one to 829 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,840 10. How good did you think you were? I thought I was a 10. Wow. 830 00:47:43,900 --> 00:47:46,540 So you thought you were brilliant. Then, yeah? And now, 831 00:47:46,540 --> 00:47:50,200 when you look back, probably a three, right? But then if I, if 832 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,720 you asked me to rank myself now, I'd probably say I 833 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,860 was gonna be really a guy. Go, yeah, definitely a 12. No, I'd 834 00:47:56,860 --> 00:48:00,120 probably say a seven or like, like, because I think, like, if 835 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,060 you're self aware enough to know, like, there's always room 836 00:48:03,060 --> 00:48:05,820 to learn. Like, like, do I do things perfectly? No, like, 837 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,240 you're always looking for like, that extra bit like, and I think 838 00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:13,140 like, with self awareness, when it comes it's like, I think 839 00:48:13,140 --> 00:48:16,560 anyone that sits there and says, I'm a tenant sales is somebody 840 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:21,440 that is probably oblivious to the truth. It's like, there's 841 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,140 always, there's always room to learn and room to improve and 842 00:48:24,140 --> 00:48:27,140 get better. Could I have asked a better question? Could I have 843 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,780 listened more? Could I be more in the present moment? So like, 844 00:48:29,780 --> 00:48:33,800 definitely, like, I'm still learning and like, I'm still on 845 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,880 that, that road to development, and I think fast forward 30 846 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,020 years, I'll still be there anyone that sort of work closely 847 00:48:41,020 --> 00:48:43,660 with me, will know that I have to ask this question. Like I 848 00:48:43,660 --> 00:48:46,720 just when I hear people say seven out of 10, it's just I've 849 00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:50,080 got to ask it. When people say seven out of 10, they normally 850 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,020 mean six or eight. You're saying you're a seven out of 10. What 851 00:48:53,020 --> 00:48:55,480 do you really mean? I reckon seven, 852 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,900 mark ackers: seven. Seven's a number for a reason in it. And 853 00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:01,620 no, but I just feel like that's the casual most people when they 854 00:49:01,620 --> 00:49:04,020 score a film, if it's all right, we give it a seven out of 10. 855 00:49:04,020 --> 00:49:07,980 It's the go to, yeah. I don't think I'd say a six. That means 856 00:49:07,980 --> 00:49:11,520 I'm probably just Yeah. I don't think I'd say a six. But then I 857 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,760 also think, like eight is virgin. It depends if you want, 858 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,460 like, a self aware answer or an ego statistical answer. Well, an 859 00:49:17,460 --> 00:49:21,560 egotistical answer when you said 10 out of 10, yeah, lack of self 860 00:49:22,100 --> 00:49:25,160 awareness seven points. So we're closer to an eight. I mean, you 861 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,940 get 2.5 you round up in maths. Yeah, I didn't listen in math. 862 00:49:28,940 --> 00:49:35,720 So earlier, you're an AR 10. Um, do you believe now in your role? 863 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,140 You are aware of the responsibility you have for the 864 00:49:39,380 --> 00:49:42,280 for the people, in sense of you didn't have that support, you 865 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:46,480 didn't have that workplace, you didn't have that mentorship you 866 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:52,480 are now responsible for. Is it 1515, people into like, how do 867 00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:56,020 you take what the environment you've been ensure that you're 868 00:49:56,020 --> 00:49:58,780 not repeating history and you're giving them what you needed? I. 869 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,540 Jack Frimston: So great question. I think I've had a lot 870 00:50:03,540 --> 00:50:08,640 of bad bosses and a lot of twat bosses, and I like to think that 871 00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,300 may be corrected like and definitely with people that that 872 00:50:12,300 --> 00:50:14,340 have come and gone throughout the company. Maybe I've not 873 00:50:14,340 --> 00:50:17,520 always been that 100% but, but we're all human, and I think we 874 00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,920 can acknowledge that. But I like to think like that it's such a 875 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,760 wanky phrase, but the doors always open. But like, 876 00:50:25,940 --> 00:50:30,440 genuinely, like, we've got, we've got two new two, two new 877 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,200 people that are with us. I sit down with one of them twice a 878 00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,660 week for half an hour blocks. Like, it's like that, that 879 00:50:35,660 --> 00:50:39,200 coaching element every morning within the company, like, we'll 880 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,000 do something when it's like refining a skill, or cool, 881 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,700 listening a role play whatever it is, and then throughout the 882 00:50:45,700 --> 00:50:49,300 day, it's just like, I really think it's like keeping on top 883 00:50:49,300 --> 00:50:52,240 of people and being there and then learning different people's 884 00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:56,020 styles. Like, what do you need? Do you need a bit of directness? 885 00:50:56,140 --> 00:50:59,140 Do you need it to be kind of a bit of a sandwich? Do you need 886 00:50:59,140 --> 00:51:03,480 it to be, like, softly, softly. But I think, I think that's 887 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,840 another skill in itself. Is like being a sales manager, and 888 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,660 obviously like starting a company, you've thrown in the 889 00:51:09,660 --> 00:51:13,800 deep end, your your head of sales, your team leader, your 890 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,680 head of it, Head of Marketing, all these different things that 891 00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:21,920 you're learning. And I think we've just been there's a 892 00:51:22,100 --> 00:51:24,740 element of skill. There's also an element of luck. Everything 893 00:51:24,740 --> 00:51:28,520 kind of kind of amalgamates together. Do you think you do 894 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,340 enough today? You know, you've obviously had that period where 895 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,360 that thirst for knowledge and desire to improve. Do you still 896 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,240 have that same passion for self development? You still do 897 00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:44,920 enough? I like to think so, like, like, yeah, like, in the 898 00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:48,160 mornings I'm listening to, I can never remember this, but I'm 899 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,800 listening to, like, an audible book that someone recommended me 900 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:55,120 about sales. I'm very lucky that we have our own podcast, and the 901 00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,480 people that we bring on are, like, typically, sales leaders 902 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,520 or like, like influencers, not influencers, but like legends in 903 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,100 the world of like, communication. So, like, I got 904 00:52:05,100 --> 00:52:08,640 to sit down with Chris Voss a couple of weeks ago for an hour. 905 00:52:08,700 --> 00:52:12,540 I thought that was bullshit. I saw that this is where you you 906 00:52:12,540 --> 00:52:16,500 come undone because you put so much funny stuff on LinkedIn. I 907 00:52:16,500 --> 00:52:18,900 saw a picture of you and Chris Voss, and I thought that was 908 00:52:18,900 --> 00:52:21,920 just some weird post. That's bullshit. There's no way you sat 909 00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:25,100 with Chris Voss for an hour. He charges like 10 grand an hour. 910 00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,040 Be a cheeky Northerner. You'll get it for free, right? Let's 911 00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:29,480 see that story. What happened? 912 00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:32,960 Got so, yeah, so I mean, that episode's coming, coming out in 913 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,300 a few weeks, by the time this comes out, that that episode of 914 00:52:35,300 --> 00:52:39,560 us and Chris Voss might come out. But like it was we just, we 915 00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,480 had, we had a we started the podcast with one intention, to 916 00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,780 get Benjamin Dennehy on the podcast. You've changed that you 917 00:52:46,900 --> 00:52:50,920 because in between the tapes, I've corrected you accordingly. 918 00:52:51,100 --> 00:52:54,760 No, you said that. Hey, rewind it. He's been calling Benjamin 919 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,700 dennahi, and I said to him off camera, I think it's denahi, 920 00:52:57,700 --> 00:53:00,840 because he corrected me, and you've just changed it anyway. 921 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:01,620 We love you, Benji, 922 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,340 so that was the aim, to get that was the aim. And within three 923 00:53:05,340 --> 00:53:08,160 weeks of starting the podcast, I messaged him on my birthday, and 924 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,140 he was like, You know what? Yeah, cool. And then, and we 925 00:53:10,140 --> 00:53:12,540 formed a relationship with, like, we've done a lot of events 926 00:53:12,540 --> 00:53:15,180 together, and, like, we meet up for lunch when he's around. And 927 00:53:15,180 --> 00:53:18,780 like, I really love the guy, and I can he seems like he's quite 928 00:53:18,780 --> 00:53:21,860 like, a mentor type figure to you, yeah, yeah. Definitely like 929 00:53:21,860 --> 00:53:25,220 it. And he's very wise, very smart. He's like, he's the goat. 930 00:53:25,220 --> 00:53:28,220 We call him the goat like we're the the young bucks, and he's 931 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:29,360 the goat. 932 00:53:30,500 --> 00:53:35,420 Going off topic now, but we had Chris Voss son on Brandon moss 933 00:53:35,420 --> 00:53:39,500 on your podcast, on our podcast. So how did you get him on? We 934 00:53:39,500 --> 00:53:42,040 cold, I'm gonna admit it cold. Emailed 935 00:53:43,060 --> 00:53:45,700 Unknown: the black swan group, yeah, and they came and they put 936 00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:49,240 him on, and then we released that episode. Then we Whoa, this 937 00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:53,260 is important. This is this is really good. So you identified, 938 00:53:53,380 --> 00:53:56,440 was this all part of the strategy to get Chris not 939 00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,500 Jack Frimston: part of the strategy? Because you it's a 940 00:53:59,500 --> 00:54:02,160 hard one. Is it like because you might end up there and you might 941 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,740 be criticized. So Zach reached out to the people that look 942 00:54:04,740 --> 00:54:07,140 after Christopher, and they said he's just turned one down, and 943 00:54:07,140 --> 00:54:09,660 they offered him 50 grand. This is what I mean. He still got the 944 00:54:09,660 --> 00:54:11,940 WhatsApp. And I was just like, alright, we'll never get him. 945 00:54:11,940 --> 00:54:14,760 Well, let's get his son on because his son's like, really, 946 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,300 really cool as well, and he'll have some stories. Then we got 947 00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,620 one of the other instructors on sandy Hine, who was amazing, and 948 00:54:21,620 --> 00:54:24,320 then I reached back out to Sandy after the conversation. And 949 00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,140 like, I'm getting to sit down with these people for an hour, 950 00:54:27,140 --> 00:54:31,520 an hour and a half, and like, it's, it's a story about, like, 951 00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,000 they're teaching me how to label, how to like this is so 952 00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,340 we've had loads and loads of people from that world that are 953 00:54:37,340 --> 00:54:39,560 teachers. So I'm learning constantly, and then I'm 954 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:41,920 editing. I'm listening to again, and then I'm going to listen to 955 00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,160 my own other podcasts and stuff like that. So I'm always the 956 00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,640 first for knowledge is there. Sandy Hine comes on. Reach back 957 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,920 out, Sandy, thank you. Would you come back? And then she says, 958 00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,260 Why don't you get these three on? And then I have that 959 00:54:53,260 --> 00:54:55,600 relationship there with them. Some of the people from the 960 00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:59,920 media team, and we emailed and said, Listen, we want to get go. 961 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,460 Risk on can we make it happen? And he turned up and went, 962 00:55:02,580 --> 00:55:05,040 you've had the whole team. Why my, why am I the last one to be 963 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,040 invited? And I was like, You were definitely invited first. 964 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:13,380 But yeah. And that is amazing. But we look at the we look at 965 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:17,340 that from like a prospecting angle. But what we've just done 966 00:55:17,340 --> 00:55:20,720 there is like, whether, whether that was the intention or not 967 00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:24,080 like, but that was like, account based strategy, you know, I 968 00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,080 mean, we've got all the influencers and champions who 969 00:55:27,140 --> 00:55:29,720 are fucking amazing in their own right, like they, they 970 00:55:29,720 --> 00:55:32,480 definitely deserve their own episodes and then, and then we 971 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,540 got the decision maker, and we got to sit with Chris Voss for 972 00:55:35,540 --> 00:55:40,100 an hour and have a masterclass, like one on one, me, Zach and 973 00:55:40,100 --> 00:55:44,560 him in a room. You don't get that. So this was, this was your 974 00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:48,100 podcast, though, but did it turn into a masterclass for the two 975 00:55:48,100 --> 00:55:52,120 of you? Yeah, because it's just, this is like that for us. Like 976 00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,600 the podcast, like conversations, like you get to learn from 977 00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:57,040 people, and like you ask that, 978 00:55:58,060 --> 00:56:01,020 we ask the questions that, like I'm curious to know. Because I 979 00:56:01,020 --> 00:56:03,720 think if I'm curious to know it, then hopefully the audience is 980 00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:06,240 like, how do you do that? Give me an example of that. What does 981 00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:09,420 that? What are the low stakes games? Like, we, we've got, 982 00:56:09,660 --> 00:56:15,480 we've we've won podcast guests by cold calling them, like, out, 983 00:56:15,540 --> 00:56:17,640 like, out the blue, like, obviously, like, in the same 984 00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:21,740 way. Like, do you know James Sinclair, the entrepreneur. Um, 985 00:56:22,580 --> 00:56:26,060 name rings a belly man. He's, like, he's all over Tiktok and 986 00:56:26,060 --> 00:56:28,580 stuff like that. Oh, he's on Tiktok now, no, he's this multi 987 00:56:28,580 --> 00:56:31,640 million, or, like, multi millionaire, like, entrepreneur, 988 00:56:32,060 --> 00:56:35,540 and I just called him. So I'll be honest, I'm calling you to 989 00:56:35,540 --> 00:56:38,000 invite you on our podcast. It's a bit of a weird one. It's out 990 00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,420 the blue, I don't know. That makes you want to hang up or let 991 00:56:40,420 --> 00:56:42,520 me have 30 seconds and run through what why I've called 992 00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:42,640 you, 993 00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:46,600 mark ackers: yeah, gone then, all right, yeah, block me in. So 994 00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,720 I think it's like the skills that you've got. How can you use 995 00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:53,500 that in other areas of your life as well? It sounds great. I 996 00:56:53,500 --> 00:56:56,860 definitely cannot wait to watch that podcast with Chris Voss. 997 00:56:56,860 --> 00:56:59,620 Honestly, I remember that when I saw that picture, I was going to 998 00:56:59,620 --> 00:57:03,480 message you, going, how did you do that? And I was expecting you 999 00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,600 to go, you idiot, that's a mock up, because I just thought it's 1000 00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,660 not. There's no way. So that's incredible. What a great story. 1001 00:57:09,900 --> 00:57:14,340 So we spoke about, obviously, the fact you're a leader now 1002 00:57:14,340 --> 00:57:17,040 you're a manager, different skill set. This happens to 1003 00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,320 salespeople a lot. They're successful, they get promoted 1004 00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,160 into a manager role. Appreciate you're not promoted as such. 1005 00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,700 You've taken the job, but you're now a first time leader, and 1006 00:57:25,700 --> 00:57:28,760 obviously have been for a number of years. But how are you 1007 00:57:28,820 --> 00:57:31,340 learning and navigating that world? 1008 00:57:32,660 --> 00:57:35,780 Jack Frimston: I think the same way that you 1009 00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:41,320 it's an interesting one, but it's like leaning on people that 1010 00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,140 you that you know from like, I've got friends that like lead 1011 00:57:44,140 --> 00:57:47,020 companies and manage teams and stuff like that, but also like 1012 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:51,280 other like leadership books and leadership podcasts and stuff 1013 00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,160 like that. There's so much like knowledge out there, I think, 1014 00:57:54,160 --> 00:58:00,420 like, we're so blessed as like, like humanity now that anything 1015 00:58:00,420 --> 00:58:03,600 you want. Like, not everything. Like, everything's out there for 1016 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,900 free. Like, there, there are people that will kind of, like, 1017 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,320 sell you courses for 1000s and 1000s of pounds on how to be a 1018 00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,080 better leader. But not everything has to be behind a 1019 00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,960 paywall. Like, if you find the right books, right like, the 1020 00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,560 right podcast, the right YouTube videos, like, you can find the 1021 00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,700 the knowledge, the issue. The issue isn't the knowledge is, it 1022 00:58:22,940 --> 00:58:26,420 is like putting it into practice and like having the 1023 00:58:26,420 --> 00:58:30,500 accountability. Luckily, me, Zach and Ben, my ops director, 1024 00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,740 we hold ourselves accountable in that sense. So it's like, what 1025 00:58:33,740 --> 00:58:36,080 are we doing? What we focusing? What problem are we trying to 1026 00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,960 solve? And we're leaning on each other. So we're all going away 1027 00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,400 learning, like, different skill sets, then bringing it back to 1028 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,860 the table and be like, I'm going to do x, y and z in this 1029 00:58:44,860 --> 00:58:47,680 situation. What would you do? No, that's right. Proceed with 1030 00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:51,100 that. No, actually, I deal with it like this. And my ops 1031 00:58:51,100 --> 00:58:55,360 director, he comes from he ran teams at vodka revs like and 1032 00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,640 then he moved into, like, project management. He's got 1033 00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:00,360 loads of experience managing people, so there's a lot of 1034 00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:04,020 like, on site learning as well from him. Sounds like, obviously 1035 00:59:04,020 --> 00:59:06,720 that's a really important trio there. I've met Zach and Ben. 1036 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:10,200 Actually, I remember my last couple of weeks at a Lego I was 1037 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,840 like, I'll have a chat with you just before I go. 1038 00:59:13,860 --> 00:59:16,740 What's been the most influential book on you and your career? 1039 00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:23,120 It's a really good question. Mike, it's a real hard one, 1040 00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,060 because you think, like my personal life has obviously had 1041 00:59:26,060 --> 00:59:31,940 an effect on my career. But if I, if I think about my career 1042 00:59:31,940 --> 00:59:32,540 now, 1043 00:59:34,340 --> 00:59:34,700 Unknown: I think, 1044 00:59:36,500 --> 00:59:37,400 Jack Frimston: as a seller, 1045 00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,560 Sandler, you can't teach a kid to ride a bike at a seminar. 1046 00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,460 That's one of the game changer. Also, Chris Voss never split the 1047 00:59:45,460 --> 00:59:46,180 difference 1048 00:59:47,980 --> 00:59:49,780 like Dale Carnegie. 1049 00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,380 Very hard to pick one. But like those books about mindset and 1050 00:59:56,380 --> 00:59:57,940 communication, they're like the they're 1051 00:59:59,260 --> 00:59:59,920 probably the draw. 1052 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,360 mark ackers: Others. So I've, I've read two of those. I 1053 01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,780 haven't read the Sarna one, which is ironic, really, because 1054 01:00:06,780 --> 01:00:08,040 I really like Sarna. 1055 01:00:09,060 --> 01:00:13,080 So three books there. Who would you say said the biggest 1056 01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,300 influence on you as a seller? 1057 01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:18,360 Jack Frimston: It's probably, I don't know if it's like a 1058 01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:21,020 political aunt or a cheesy aunt, but it'd probably have to be 1059 01:00:21,020 --> 01:00:24,620 Zach like, from, from like, a standpoint of, obviously, like, 1060 01:00:24,980 --> 01:00:29,060 doing, being in the trenches every day, like, like, when, 1061 01:00:29,060 --> 01:00:33,260 when the business started, I was in a co working space surrounded 1062 01:00:33,260 --> 01:00:38,300 by strangers, cold calling. And, like, cold calling is hard at 1063 01:00:38,300 --> 01:00:40,780 the best of times, but like to do it in a room full of 1064 01:00:40,780 --> 01:00:43,600 strangers, and everybody's got their Macbooks, and they're all 1065 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,600 on Canva making pre, like, little graphic designs, and 1066 01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,420 you're the schmuck in the corner cold calling people like to be 1067 01:00:49,420 --> 01:00:52,420 in the trenches and be like, going back and forth with each 1068 01:00:52,420 --> 01:00:55,600 other. I've got this, I've got this scenario. I've got this. 1069 01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:57,640 This is what I'm dealing with today. Like, blah, blah, blah. 1070 01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:01,800 Like, it's like, I think you learn. I think, I think we 1071 01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:04,740 underestimate, like friendship, like we learned so much from our 1072 01:01:04,740 --> 01:01:08,400 friends. And I know they say like you become like you become 1073 01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,940 the five people that you're you're surrounded by the most. 1074 01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,900 But I think like we forget, like you can learn so much from your 1075 01:01:15,900 --> 01:01:18,900 friends. Like it doesn't have to necessarily just be somebody 1076 01:01:18,900 --> 01:01:22,220 that's year like, 30 years ahead of you. It could just be 1077 01:01:22,220 --> 01:01:25,640 somebody like Zach. Zach had, like, Zach's an amazing seller. 1078 01:01:25,820 --> 01:01:28,580 He'd been doing the business for six months, so I was like, six 1079 01:01:28,580 --> 01:01:31,700 months behind him in other skill set, probably not like he'd been 1080 01:01:31,700 --> 01:01:36,380 doing, like, real hard B to B, door opening for years, but in 1081 01:01:36,380 --> 01:01:39,800 that new environment, like, and he was like, one step ahead of 1082 01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,880 me, and like, helping me along the way, and then, like, working 1083 01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,880 together to solve various different issues. And it's like 1084 01:01:46,060 --> 01:01:50,560 we both, we both bring different things to the table. And I think 1085 01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:54,160 that's why it works as a relationship, because one 1086 01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,800 compliments the other. We're not bringing necessarily the same 1087 01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:00,460 skill set. Have you ever told him that I say Phil about him, 1088 01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,860 I'm gonna text him after this actually let him know. No, I 1089 01:02:04,860 --> 01:02:10,200 yeah, I love like, we're quite as especially for like, 2024 I 1090 01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:13,020 know, like, without sounding or cheeky, like men don't talk 1091 01:02:13,020 --> 01:02:15,480 enough, and like, I'm quite lucky. My friendship group has 1092 01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:18,180 always, like, spoke about how they feel and like I like, I'm 1093 01:02:18,180 --> 01:02:21,500 very grateful to to Zach, and I've definitely told him that 1094 01:02:21,500 --> 01:02:25,160 before. I love that. And you're right. People don't in sales can 1095 01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,760 feel like very lonely place, but being a sales leader or co 1096 01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,400 founder can also feel like a very lonely place. 1097 01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:36,200 mark ackers: What's been the most valuable advice you've ever 1098 01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,660 been given from a sales perspective? 1099 01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:40,180 Jack Frimston: Like 1100 01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:42,340 I think it's what 1101 01:02:43,420 --> 01:02:47,380 I think people expect results from the work they haven't put 1102 01:02:47,380 --> 01:02:50,920 in. And, like, I look back at my time as, like, an early seller. 1103 01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,220 I thought I could blag it. I really, really thought I could 1104 01:02:54,220 --> 01:02:57,460 blag it, and I tried to blag it, and you get so far, but 1105 01:02:57,460 --> 01:03:03,900 eventually the cracks always show. Like, for any, any seller, 1106 01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,980 like, you've just got to put the work in, and it's not forever. 1107 01:03:07,980 --> 01:03:10,500 Like, it really, really isn't forever. I remember Benjamin 1108 01:03:10,500 --> 01:03:14,820 Dennehy saying, like, you're not gonna, you won't be prospecting 1109 01:03:14,820 --> 01:03:18,300 forever. Like, like, you won't be like when, when the business 1110 01:03:18,300 --> 01:03:23,480 started from nine till six every single day, cold calling on a 1111 01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:27,620 mobile phone, Google up one after the other. My week doesn't 1112 01:03:27,620 --> 01:03:30,440 look like that now, because the business has changed. Like there 1113 01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:34,100 wouldn't be enough time to dial, like there's a team to manage, 1114 01:03:34,100 --> 01:03:37,700 there's deals to close, there's clients to work on this, 1115 01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:40,420 journeys to Newcastle to do exciting stuff like this. So, 1116 01:03:40,420 --> 01:03:44,920 like, it changes, but it's like, just imagine, like, imagine, 1117 01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:49,000 like, a year where you really, really put the effort in just 1118 01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,480 one year, every single day without, without fail, you put 1119 01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:55,960 the the most amount in, you put 100% in. Your life's going to 1120 01:03:55,960 --> 01:04:00,300 change dramatically in one year. But those previous years of 1121 01:04:00,300 --> 01:04:04,860 sales were not even like, 50% effort. It was just like 1122 01:04:04,860 --> 01:04:07,980 chugging along, hoping that somebody was going to come and 1123 01:04:07,980 --> 01:04:10,980 save me, hoping that somebody was like, going to come and pull 1124 01:04:10,980 --> 01:04:13,680 me out and say, Oh, it's all right. We'll give you this big, 1125 01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:17,220 fancy career. You'll be fine. Doesn't happen like, you've got 1126 01:04:17,220 --> 01:04:20,900 to put the work in, and then the rest will follow 1127 01:04:22,220 --> 01:04:24,080 mark ackers: a phrase that I really like, and I feel like 1128 01:04:24,140 --> 01:04:27,680 you're saying this in a much better way. But to summarize is, 1129 01:04:27,860 --> 01:04:30,440 if you're looking for motivation, it's not going to 1130 01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:34,280 happen. Action comes first, and then I use this analogy, which 1131 01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:36,740 doesn't work when you look at me. Fortunately, the camera's up 1132 01:04:36,740 --> 01:04:41,440 here, but it's like going to the gym. The hardest part is going, 1133 01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:45,220 but when you're there, you're right when you leave, you never 1134 01:04:45,220 --> 01:04:48,700 regret it, but you need to take that action for that motivation. 1135 01:04:48,700 --> 01:04:52,480 And it feels like there was a key moment in your career where 1136 01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,900 you decided, I've got to take action, and that's what's led to 1137 01:04:55,900 --> 01:04:57,100 the to the motivation. 1138 01:04:58,300 --> 01:04:59,920 Jack Frimston: Yeah, I think it like at six. 1139 01:05:00,300 --> 01:05:03,660 Dean, you're allowed to say, Oh, my life's not fair. Oh, this is 1140 01:05:03,660 --> 01:05:08,460 happening, that this is happening. Blah shit at 30, get 1141 01:05:08,460 --> 01:05:11,820 a grip. Like, like, you can't just be Oh, I never get the 1142 01:05:11,820 --> 01:05:15,360 promotions. Oh, nobody ever like, wants me to be the like 1143 01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:19,920 it, even if it's not like, your fault, it's your responsibility. 1144 01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:24,140 And I think, like once that mindset like shifted in me, and 1145 01:05:24,500 --> 01:05:29,360 I realized like, oh shit, life is like, life is so short, like 1146 01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:32,960 no one's coming to save me. I might not have that long. I 1147 01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:38,240 better do something with this thing. So I was waiting to ask 1148 01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,840 this question, and I was starting to think we might not 1149 01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,600 get onto it, this obsession with death. 1150 01:05:44,860 --> 01:05:47,380 mark ackers: Is that just your way of standing out on LinkedIn, 1151 01:05:47,380 --> 01:05:47,800 or is that a 1152 01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:50,380 Jack Frimston: real thing? People say this like, oh, you 1153 01:05:50,380 --> 01:05:52,840 built a personal brand about death. It's like, I've not, I've 1154 01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:55,600 not invented death. People know that, right? Like, I've covered, 1155 01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,000 yeah. It's like, it was there before me and it'll be there 1156 01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:02,700 after me. But I think it's like, I think there's too much like, 1157 01:06:03,060 --> 01:06:07,740 airy fairy hippy shit about like, like mindset and life 1158 01:06:07,740 --> 01:06:11,160 like, like, I just think it's like, what's the flip? 1159 01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:12,000 Everyone's like when 1160 01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,020 I, when I spent some time in the monastery, like, I read loads 1161 01:06:16,020 --> 01:06:19,020 and loads and loads of books about death and like, I just use 1162 01:06:19,020 --> 01:06:21,380 it as, like, a constant reminder I was telling you earlier. 1163 01:06:21,380 --> 01:06:23,480 Obviously, like my my watch says, Remember you will die. 1164 01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:26,060 I've got a necklace on that says, Remember you'll die, but I 1165 01:06:26,060 --> 01:06:30,680 just use it as little motivated, so that if I come off a call and 1166 01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:34,400 it's shit, big deal like the fridge broker, I got a call the 1167 01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:37,460 other day from my partner, the fridge is broke, and I just All 1168 01:06:37,460 --> 01:06:39,800 right, well, we'll just get someone out to fix it. And she 1169 01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,760 was frustrated about it. And it's like, it's frustrating, but 1170 01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:46,060 I'm not going to waste any energy on it, because one day 1171 01:06:46,060 --> 01:06:48,640 I'm going to be on my deathbed. Do you think when I look back at 1172 01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:50,920 all the traumas in my life, I'm going to be thinking about a 1173 01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:53,920 fridge that broke? Like, no, like, so it's like, it's not 1174 01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:56,680 saying don't give a shit about anything, because there are 1175 01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:00,240 obviously things that are worth, like, caring about, but I think 1176 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,120 in the long run, like the and this is why, like, I'm so 1177 01:07:03,300 --> 01:07:07,140 passionate about like, do what suits you. Like, do what, what 1178 01:07:07,140 --> 01:07:09,720 makes you happy, what makes you content, follow your dreams, 1179 01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:12,660 because one day you'll all be dead. And like, none of it 1180 01:07:12,660 --> 01:07:15,600 matters. And like, really think about, like, speaking to my mum 1181 01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:19,620 about this this morning. It's like, so we've got like, photos 1182 01:07:19,620 --> 01:07:23,180 now of like my mom and then her mom, but then you only go back a 1183 01:07:23,180 --> 01:07:26,300 few, like, a few generations. You're like, I don't really care 1184 01:07:26,300 --> 01:07:28,580 who they are. I don't know who they are. I don't have any 1185 01:07:28,580 --> 01:07:32,720 memories attached to them. It's not long before me and you are 1186 01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,300 going to be long forgotten about. And maybe there'll be a 1187 01:07:35,300 --> 01:07:38,540 distant memory, like when, when our names muttered one one more 1188 01:07:38,540 --> 01:07:41,020 time to your great, great, great, great grandkids. Or maybe 1189 01:07:41,020 --> 01:07:43,900 someone's like, find a podcast from you. And they like, they're 1190 01:07:43,900 --> 01:07:46,480 like, Oh, this is brilliant. This is how they used to sell in 1191 01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:49,120 the Do you know what I mean, like that, that'd be amazing. 1192 01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:52,960 But the chances are, think about how many people have come before 1193 01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:57,100 us and we've forgotten about and we move on. It's like life is 1194 01:07:57,100 --> 01:08:01,920 just so bloody short. We're all going to be dead soon. Like 1195 01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,680 people are running around, panicking about stuff that just 1196 01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:07,260 doesn't matter. And I think that's what I'm passionate 1197 01:08:07,260 --> 01:08:11,820 about. And like, if I can get one other person and have that 1198 01:08:11,820 --> 01:08:14,940 ripple effect, like, It's a Wonderful Life is is like that? 1199 01:08:14,940 --> 01:08:18,180 If you, if you can get one other person to say, yeah, he's right. 1200 01:08:18,180 --> 01:08:20,580 Like, What? What? What books does he read? Right? I'm gonna 1201 01:08:20,580 --> 01:08:23,360 go and read. Those are my mindset is different. Well, then 1202 01:08:23,540 --> 01:08:25,880 that might have another knock on effect someone else in the 1203 01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,700 world. And it's, it's, hopefully, it's that kind of you 1204 01:08:28,700 --> 01:08:32,240 might not be remembered, but your impact might ripple through 1205 01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:33,980 and you, we don't know, 1206 01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:38,300 mark ackers: everything you say that resonates with me and have 1207 01:08:38,300 --> 01:08:41,740 similar thoughts myself, like I heard a phrase a long time ago, 1208 01:08:41,740 --> 01:08:45,280 and it was like, at some point in the future, it'd be the last 1209 01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:47,620 time you've ever spoken about, hmm. And I just thought, wow, 1210 01:08:47,620 --> 01:08:50,080 you're right. And like, you say, obviously that, but at some 1211 01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:53,200 point you will never be spoken about or thought about ever 1212 01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:53,680 again. 1213 01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,540 And then you again. Just the other example that I play 1214 01:08:58,540 --> 01:09:02,040 through my mind every November, you know, wear my Poppy. And I 1215 01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:05,580 think I wonder when that'll stop. And people always go, 1216 01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:09,600 never. And I'm like, I don't think you appreciate deep time. 1217 01:09:09,780 --> 01:09:12,660 Like, and I do this exercise people I go, like, give me a 1218 01:09:12,660 --> 01:09:15,240 date that's really far in the future. And they go like, Oh, 1219 01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,840 2050 I'm like, yeah, that's my point. You, you know, you're not 1220 01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:22,940 thinking in deep time. I think, and I always say, like, World 1221 01:09:22,940 --> 01:09:26,360 War One, World War Two, really important to us, and probably 1222 01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,300 for the rest of our lives, we'll remember it. But there comes a 1223 01:09:29,300 --> 01:09:32,840 point. You know, there was loads of battles and wars before that 1224 01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:37,160 that we never think about ever, and it's like it's such an 1225 01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:40,600 interesting thing to con i Don't remind myself of it enough, but 1226 01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:44,740 I can see why when you really think about, like, non trivial 1227 01:09:44,740 --> 01:09:47,140 things, and will you think about that in the future? Really, 1228 01:09:47,140 --> 01:09:51,040 really interesting. And I could spend ages of you on that, and I 1229 01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:53,500 think I don't have it changed for you, but it changed me when 1230 01:09:53,500 --> 01:09:58,060 I become a parent. I No one. No one likes the idea of death, and 1231 01:09:58,060 --> 01:09:59,920 it freaks them out. But having children. 1232 01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,400 Jack Frimston: Shouldn't change my perception of death. I felt 1233 01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:05,940 more comfortable with it, which is mad, because I want to be 1234 01:10:05,940 --> 01:10:08,640 here longer than ever, because I've got two kids now. But did 1235 01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:12,300 that change you at all? Haven't having a child, it's it's so 1236 01:10:12,300 --> 01:10:14,760 it's one of the happiest things, like we were talking about this 1237 01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,580 last week, but like, it's amazing. Having children is, 1238 01:10:17,580 --> 01:10:20,480 like the the best thing ever. I absolutely love it with that 1239 01:10:20,480 --> 01:10:23,360 comes a deep sadness when you when you say hello to somebody, 1240 01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:27,560 eventually you'll have to say goodbye and fingers crossed. In 1241 01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:30,440 my lifetime, it's me like, obviously, that there are awful 1242 01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:33,620 things that happen that the stoics used to meditate, and 1243 01:10:33,620 --> 01:10:36,620 they used to go into the child's room. This is like how crazy 1244 01:10:36,620 --> 01:10:39,800 they were 1000s of years ago. But they'd like, sit there, over 1245 01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,520 the over the baby, and they go, they'd meditate on if the baby 1246 01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,460 didn't make it to the morning, which is crazy, but, like, it 1247 01:10:45,460 --> 01:10:49,060 makes sense just to make the most of that moment, hopefully. 1248 01:10:49,060 --> 01:10:52,540 Like, it's me that goes first, and I live to 90 and I get to 1249 01:10:52,540 --> 01:10:55,480 see great, great grandkids. Like, it'd be incredible, but 1250 01:10:55,480 --> 01:10:59,260 like, one day I'll have to say goodbye, and that is hard, and 1251 01:10:59,260 --> 01:11:03,420 that and that comes like, that is grief, isn't it? Like, it's 1252 01:11:03,420 --> 01:11:06,780 like you love people, and you get to experience the good 1253 01:11:06,780 --> 01:11:10,080 things, and then with that comes the sadness. But that is just, 1254 01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:13,860 life is black and white. There are, there are kind of no areas 1255 01:11:13,860 --> 01:11:17,400 of it's not black and white. Sorry. Anyway, you know what I'm 1256 01:11:17,580 --> 01:11:22,100 trying to say? Yeah, it's amazing, but it's also hard, but 1257 01:11:22,100 --> 01:11:26,420 it just it does, like it's the complete opposite of death, 1258 01:11:26,420 --> 01:11:26,540 yeah. 1259 01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:31,220 So speaking of saying goodbye, we're getting towards the end of 1260 01:11:31,220 --> 01:11:36,740 our podcast. Tell us more about wham, the problems you solve and 1261 01:11:36,740 --> 01:11:39,080 why people should I mean, we know why we should listen out 1262 01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:41,620 for the podcast. Got Chris Voss coming, right? But give it. Give 1263 01:11:41,620 --> 01:11:43,900 WAM a little plug to those listening that might not have 1264 01:11:43,900 --> 01:11:47,560 heard of wham before. Yeah, so we, we've got two now that. So 1265 01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:50,440 you mentioned earlier, like a sales consult and WAM. So like 1266 01:11:50,740 --> 01:11:54,520 WAM is we have a meeting, and it does what it says on the tin, 1267 01:11:54,580 --> 01:11:59,320 like we get you meetings, like we we focus on top of the 1268 01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:03,360 funnel, like so many people want to be sitting down with people 1269 01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:06,000 that like fit their ICP and they're like their dream 1270 01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:10,860 clients, but they don't have the capacity, they don't have the 1271 01:12:10,860 --> 01:12:13,380 knowledge, they have the systems, they don't have, they 1272 01:12:13,380 --> 01:12:17,160 don't have the team. They don't have the grind or the hustle to 1273 01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:19,740 actually sit down and just say, You know what? I'm going to put 1274 01:12:19,740 --> 01:12:22,280 in a full shift. I'm just going to ring people, I'm going to 1275 01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:24,740 have conversations. I'm going to build that awareness. I'm going 1276 01:12:24,740 --> 01:12:26,780 to find people have the problems, see if they're 1277 01:12:26,780 --> 01:12:29,480 motivated, then I'm going to book it in the diary. We do that 1278 01:12:29,480 --> 01:12:33,320 for you. We become an extension of your team. We we just book 1279 01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,380 those meetings in for you. So we work with a variety of different 1280 01:12:36,380 --> 01:12:39,800 clients on that side. As as we grew, we have a meeting, we 1281 01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,660 found that there's capacity for, okay, what happens next? So we 1282 01:12:43,660 --> 01:12:45,880 were sitting with people that say, Well, I sit with them, but 1283 01:12:46,060 --> 01:12:48,460 my conversion rate's probably not as high as I want it to be. 1284 01:12:48,460 --> 01:12:50,920 So maybe that's from like, a training standpoint, or like, 1285 01:12:51,100 --> 01:12:54,880 more more more consultancy like, these are your blind spots. This 1286 01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:57,700 is like, you've not got you've not got sales, you've not got 1287 01:12:57,700 --> 01:13:01,620 any CRM system in place. Of course, that's why you've like, 1288 01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,800 these are the areas like, it's, it's easy, like, like we were 1289 01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:09,660 speaking about earlier, the stuff that we know now we know. 1290 01:13:09,900 --> 01:13:13,980 But there are people that are in business that don't necessarily 1291 01:13:13,980 --> 01:13:16,920 know the stuff that we know now. So it's like, how do we 1292 01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:19,020 implement that, and how do we make change for that? 1293 01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:22,160 mark ackers: So yeah, they're the two businesses that we do. 1294 01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:25,760 And people can find you on LinkedIn, on LinkedIn talking 1295 01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:28,160 about death. And it sounds like you might be on Tiktok. 1296 01:13:29,660 --> 01:13:32,180 I think we are on Tiktok. Yeah, we do the odd Tiktok. We're 1297 01:13:32,180 --> 01:13:35,060 trying to get more Tiktok. I'm trying to be down with it this 1298 01:13:35,060 --> 01:13:39,920 year. So you don't have a personal Tiktok. I do, but 1299 01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:43,420 that's my scroll in hand. Understand, we do have a YouTube 1300 01:13:43,420 --> 01:13:47,800 channel. Does the tailor made have a Tiktok the tailor made? 1301 01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,800 No, they were long gone before Tiktok was existed. 1302 01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:55,120 Unfortunately, fair enough. Um, Jack, I've, I've loved having 1303 01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:58,180 you on the podcast. You've been so transparent, so open. We 1304 01:13:58,180 --> 01:14:00,840 We've definitely, I feel like gone through a roller coaster 1305 01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:03,420 that we've had, like, some funny moments. We've had some 1306 01:14:03,420 --> 01:14:06,480 difficult moments. Got really deep there talk about death, 1307 01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:07,800 like, it's definitely been 1308 01:14:08,940 --> 01:14:12,240 a great a great interview. As far as I'm concerned, I've 1309 01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:15,840 really enjoyed listening to you. I'm grateful for you traveling 1310 01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:19,140 up from Manchester. What incredible effort. And can't 1311 01:14:19,140 --> 01:14:21,440 wait to hear the podcast with Chris Voss. Thanks so much for 1312 01:14:21,440 --> 01:14:22,280 coming on. Thank you. 1313 01:14:25,820 --> 01:14:25,940 Unknown: You.