1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:02,340 I am. 2 00:00:03,390 --> 00:00:04,920 And this is choosing leadership. 3 00:00:05,340 --> 00:00:09,510 A podcast for high performers, with big dreams at work and life. 4 00:00:10,380 --> 00:00:14,280 This is a podcast for people who know deep inside that there is more. 5 00:00:15,450 --> 00:00:17,369 Have you achieved a great deal of success? 6 00:00:17,759 --> 00:00:21,090 But on the inside, you still feel empty and like an imposter. 7 00:00:22,050 --> 00:00:24,270 Do other people see you as a strong leader? 8 00:00:24,660 --> 00:00:28,650 And you wonder why it still feels so lonely and suffocating. 9 00:00:29,339 --> 00:00:34,289 The aim of this podcast is not to provide you more content, but instead shift 10 00:00:34,289 --> 00:00:35,849 the context under which you operate. 11 00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:40,199 I dare to speak to the tremendous power, which you already have 12 00:00:40,319 --> 00:00:41,609 rather than what you believe. 13 00:00:42,029 --> 00:00:43,769 Are your strengths and limitations. 14 00:00:44,459 --> 00:00:47,489 This podcast is called choosing leadership because that is 15 00:00:47,489 --> 00:00:49,529 what leadership is a choice. 16 00:00:49,876 --> 00:00:52,306 And this is the leadership journey, CDs. 17 00:00:52,936 --> 00:00:56,806 I am interviewing leaders with an interesting story to learn how 18 00:00:56,806 --> 00:00:58,036 they got where they are today. 19 00:00:58,576 --> 00:01:01,396 We all have a lot to learn from each other's stories. 20 00:01:01,936 --> 00:01:02,476 Of Viet. 21 00:01:02,506 --> 00:01:04,096 We started very veer now. 22 00:01:04,486 --> 00:01:06,736 And over successes and struggles on the V. 23 00:01:07,216 --> 00:01:09,406 With this series of interviews, my attempt. 24 00:01:09,886 --> 00:01:13,996 Is to give leaders an opportunity to share their stories and for all of us 25 00:01:14,026 --> 00:01:16,126 to learn from their genders sharing 26 00:01:16,626 --> 00:01:20,796 Christian is a leader in science, technology and business because 27 00:01:20,796 --> 00:01:24,216 of which he was named our top hundred AI global leader. 28 00:01:24,216 --> 00:01:29,886 Recently, he has been a startup founder, professor, a vice president and 29 00:01:29,886 --> 00:01:34,626 executive director at some of the largest international tech companies, successful 30 00:01:34,626 --> 00:01:36,276 startups and leading university. 31 00:01:37,611 --> 00:01:42,471 In the interview, Christian and I speak about our common love for technology and 32 00:01:42,471 --> 00:01:47,631 leadership about computers and people, and about artificial and human intelligence. 33 00:01:48,201 --> 00:01:52,941 We talk about the importance of listening with empathy, understanding the cultural 34 00:01:52,941 --> 00:01:58,401 assumptions that live behind all conversations and the important role of 35 00:01:58,401 --> 00:02:00,591 curiosity when it comes to leadership. 36 00:02:01,715 --> 00:02:02,525 Hi, Christian. 37 00:02:02,585 --> 00:02:03,545 Welcome to the show. 38 00:02:04,985 --> 00:02:05,855 Thank you for having me. 39 00:02:06,515 --> 00:02:08,375 Yes, it is wonderful to have your hair. 40 00:02:09,485 --> 00:02:09,845 Yeah. 41 00:02:10,615 --> 00:02:10,855 Yeah. 42 00:02:11,355 --> 00:02:16,779 So for everybody who is listening I will throw it back to you to just give a brief 43 00:02:16,779 --> 00:02:18,399 summary of who you are and what do you do? 44 00:02:19,299 --> 00:02:19,629 Yeah. 45 00:02:19,629 --> 00:02:21,339 So my name is Christian Goodman. 46 00:02:21,411 --> 00:02:23,961 I'm working with artificial intelligence and I have been 47 00:02:23,961 --> 00:02:25,671 doing so for a very long time. 48 00:02:25,701 --> 00:02:29,901 I'm a vice president and global head of AI and data at a very 49 00:02:29,901 --> 00:02:31,491 large it company in Europe. 50 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:34,055 Tier two, every I'm also an executive director of the 51 00:02:34,055 --> 00:02:35,255 Northern gateway Institute. 52 00:02:35,255 --> 00:02:38,465 And now like the Karolinska Institute, which is American university. 53 00:02:38,975 --> 00:02:41,891 And yeah, my focus that my passion. 54 00:02:42,526 --> 00:02:47,776 Light's a lot in building a business and innovation and research around 55 00:02:47,776 --> 00:02:53,111 AI building teams building people being a good leader in this space. 56 00:02:54,131 --> 00:02:54,701 Thank you. 57 00:02:54,801 --> 00:02:58,801 I like this intersection of AI technology and. 58 00:03:00,096 --> 00:03:03,639 I think there are some quite a few parallels, but I'm really 59 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,779 interested and keen to learn how you got to where you are today. 60 00:03:08,199 --> 00:03:11,769 If you can share a little bit about your life, if there are any crucible 61 00:03:11,769 --> 00:03:16,059 events, which shaped your life and shaped your views around technology 62 00:03:16,059 --> 00:03:17,799 and leadership, I would love to hear. 63 00:03:17,918 --> 00:03:19,208 Yeah, absolutely. 64 00:03:19,208 --> 00:03:22,894 I think in the early days I was one of those folks that was very early 65 00:03:22,894 --> 00:03:27,156 on, interested in new technology and computers was able to program 66 00:03:27,156 --> 00:03:28,896 them when I was 13 years old. 67 00:03:28,948 --> 00:03:34,549 Started really getting deeply into it was inspired by books by Stan is doubling by 68 00:03:34,549 --> 00:03:39,589 Asimov to start understanding how this technology could potentially unfold. 69 00:03:39,589 --> 00:03:42,439 So I had a great fascination for hard work early on in my. 70 00:03:43,509 --> 00:03:47,828 I realized then also that the best type of intelligence that we can learn from 71 00:03:47,858 --> 00:03:52,868 is our intelligent and that animals that say, how do we work together? 72 00:03:52,898 --> 00:03:54,308 How do we relate to each other? 73 00:03:54,308 --> 00:03:55,628 How do we solve problems? 74 00:03:55,628 --> 00:04:01,028 How do we perceive the world philosophy, ideologies, all these types of topics. 75 00:04:01,028 --> 00:04:03,758 And so psychology became one part of my studies. 76 00:04:03,788 --> 00:04:05,588 And then also of course, AI. 77 00:04:05,948 --> 00:04:09,602 So I think I brought this whole interest into understanding the human condition. 78 00:04:09,631 --> 00:04:15,127 And how we relate, how we, how the world is set up into into this idea of 79 00:04:15,127 --> 00:04:19,040 building an AI, building an intelligent machine , that we can interact with 80 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,660 that, that can understand us to some extent we can understand it. 81 00:04:23,755 --> 00:04:26,965 And that is something that really brought my passion forward. 82 00:04:27,025 --> 00:04:28,735 And I think also it has been. 83 00:04:30,010 --> 00:04:30,550 It has been. 84 00:04:30,710 --> 00:04:34,909 Then I spoke to people also during those early years, which really inspired me. 85 00:04:34,909 --> 00:04:38,685 I remember a psychology professor, Swiss professor. 86 00:04:38,691 --> 00:04:41,206 He was very much forefront on this, in this area. 87 00:04:41,206 --> 00:04:47,746 And he really had a fantastic way of describing how our brain works, how we are 88 00:04:47,836 --> 00:04:52,816 essentially very close to how language, how we think and how language is built up. 89 00:04:52,906 --> 00:04:53,436 And so this is. 90 00:04:53,956 --> 00:04:59,044 This was an inspiring person and also early startups and companies that I 91 00:04:59,044 --> 00:05:03,328 joined, where I could see how good leadership versus not so good leadership 92 00:05:03,328 --> 00:05:05,096 looked like in these early days. 93 00:05:05,163 --> 00:05:08,916 But I think that is a starting point, in, in my interest and passion into this. 94 00:05:09,433 --> 00:05:12,373 Again, I can totally relate to dogs because my journey 95 00:05:12,373 --> 00:05:13,783 has been somewhat similar. 96 00:05:13,873 --> 00:05:18,283 It started with programming and computers and then slowly delve deep 97 00:05:18,283 --> 00:05:20,353 dived into the human side of it. 98 00:05:20,743 --> 00:05:26,225 So I'm very curious to know how you make sense of these two elements, I think which 99 00:05:26,225 --> 00:05:32,165 again, Pretty apart sometimes like the analytical side of it, the rational side 100 00:05:32,165 --> 00:05:36,575 of computers, programming technology, and then the human side, which we are 101 00:05:36,585 --> 00:05:41,435 the rational blame brain plays a part, but there's a huge emotional side to it, 102 00:05:41,435 --> 00:05:45,748 which is which is which sometimes it's difficult to explain by rational thinking. 103 00:05:45,748 --> 00:05:48,987 So I'm looking forward to hearing your views, how you 104 00:05:48,987 --> 00:05:50,267 bring that together in your. 105 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:51,860 Yeah, no, exactly. 106 00:05:51,860 --> 00:05:52,970 It's a good point. 107 00:05:52,970 --> 00:05:54,574 And I think so let's see. 108 00:05:54,664 --> 00:05:58,144 Did you have the technology part, as you say, that's more analytical, 109 00:05:58,144 --> 00:06:01,354 that's the data, that's the algorithms, it's the technology. 110 00:06:01,774 --> 00:06:03,004 It's the hard things. 111 00:06:03,025 --> 00:06:05,338 Where you really, where data is gathered. 112 00:06:06,043 --> 00:06:11,185 The way, how you decide, you have very frameworks, you have agreements and so 113 00:06:11,185 --> 00:06:15,835 on, and that's one, that's the hard side of the spectrum, which you can discuss. 114 00:06:17,275 --> 00:06:18,505 In order to make the suspicions. 115 00:06:18,505 --> 00:06:22,087 You're not in today's world so much as digital, you're and I talked before the, 116 00:06:22,387 --> 00:06:27,007 this discussion also about how the whole world is changing, everything becomes 117 00:06:27,007 --> 00:06:31,377 digitized and there you have very little gaps, very little, things that are. 118 00:06:31,997 --> 00:06:35,963 Ambiguous, it needs to be pretty straight, although it's still extremely complex. 119 00:06:35,993 --> 00:06:40,959 And as complexity increases, sometimes it also becomes a bit fluffy let's say, but, 120 00:06:40,989 --> 00:06:42,499 and then there's the human side, right? 121 00:06:42,541 --> 00:06:48,811 I think I realized early on my big ambition of seeing big AI projects 122 00:06:48,878 --> 00:06:53,692 turning into something requires you to work very closely together with lots and 123 00:06:53,692 --> 00:06:55,822 lots of other experts with great people. 124 00:06:56,687 --> 00:06:59,987 All sorts of qualities that they can bring to the table. 125 00:07:00,407 --> 00:07:04,161 And of course, each of these individuals have different backgrounds, 126 00:07:04,161 --> 00:07:08,662 different ambitions, different ways of communicating a different view on 127 00:07:08,662 --> 00:07:12,202 the world, which is a great asset. 128 00:07:12,292 --> 00:07:16,276 If you understand where they come from, if you can if you can connect 129 00:07:16,303 --> 00:07:20,050 to those individuals and that's that's a different quality that 130 00:07:20,050 --> 00:07:21,460 you need to bring in as a leader. 131 00:07:21,466 --> 00:07:24,970 Yeah, I would say these are two different topics. 132 00:07:24,979 --> 00:07:28,921 Depends also which organization, which industry you're you would be working 133 00:07:28,921 --> 00:07:30,901 in if you speak on that level, right? 134 00:07:31,141 --> 00:07:33,093 Because you have you have a different structure. 135 00:07:33,123 --> 00:07:37,713 If, for example, I often like to divide between a sales oriented, basically a 136 00:07:37,713 --> 00:07:39,823 sales oriented organization, a company. 137 00:07:39,864 --> 00:07:44,029 Where sales is in the forefront and then engineering and the product 138 00:07:44,029 --> 00:07:46,369 design is what sort of develops. 139 00:07:46,399 --> 00:07:49,541 , what sales really sees in the market, or you have a product. 140 00:07:50,391 --> 00:07:52,791 Product and engineering based organization. 141 00:07:52,791 --> 00:07:56,181 We often the leadership and the CEO is more engineering based. 142 00:07:56,571 --> 00:07:59,841 So then often the engineers come up with a whole bunch of cool things. 143 00:08:00,081 --> 00:08:02,571 And then sales has the burden of bringing into the market. 144 00:08:02,623 --> 00:08:05,803 Sometimes you have a bit of a chasm between the sales and market 145 00:08:06,043 --> 00:08:07,673 folks and the engineering and. 146 00:08:07,699 --> 00:08:13,969 And that's also probably a slide divided between the more harder signs or the 147 00:08:13,969 --> 00:08:19,833 harder approach of data and algorithms and products and also the way how you deal or 148 00:08:19,833 --> 00:08:23,253 how you understand customers and how you understand the market, how you understand 149 00:08:23,253 --> 00:08:28,173 enterprise, which is a much more fluent way of dealing in over Melbourne with 150 00:08:28,203 --> 00:08:29,973 people around it than algorithms industry. 151 00:08:30,484 --> 00:08:30,784 Yeah. 152 00:08:30,814 --> 00:08:30,994 Yeah. 153 00:08:30,994 --> 00:08:35,425 I think that is very relevant to the example of sales and the product and 154 00:08:35,425 --> 00:08:37,465 engineering as different departments. 155 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:40,036 And I'm wondering how do you bridge this gap? 156 00:08:40,066 --> 00:08:45,256 Because I see that rational thinking in the engineering and product side, but at 157 00:08:45,256 --> 00:08:49,906 the same times sales, and especially when engineers are talking to salespeople, 158 00:08:50,326 --> 00:08:51,586 it's a lot about building trust. 159 00:08:51,586 --> 00:08:53,266 It's a lot about building relationships. 160 00:08:53,296 --> 00:08:53,606 It's a lot. 161 00:08:54,636 --> 00:08:58,656 Slowing down sometimes explaining things, taking what the other purveyor 162 00:08:58,686 --> 00:08:59,826 the other person is coming from. 163 00:08:59,826 --> 00:09:03,516 As you said, what has worked for you to bridge this gap rather 164 00:09:03,516 --> 00:09:05,218 than this becoming a liability? 165 00:09:05,218 --> 00:09:08,349 And just to be you just to understand your question, you mean the gap 166 00:09:08,379 --> 00:09:12,969 that we within a team of, let's say engineers and product people. 167 00:09:13,139 --> 00:09:15,009 Do you mean also the gap between, okay. 168 00:09:15,056 --> 00:09:19,414 You talk about the data on you talk about the products, but you also 169 00:09:19,414 --> 00:09:20,524 have the people that you need to do. 170 00:09:21,284 --> 00:09:24,333 Within that team or do you mean let's say for example, sales and products. 171 00:09:25,653 --> 00:09:25,953 Yeah. 172 00:09:26,493 --> 00:09:26,663 Yeah. 173 00:09:26,803 --> 00:09:29,073 My question was about the first part. 174 00:09:29,133 --> 00:09:31,473 Does the sales and product, how do you bridge that gap? 175 00:09:31,533 --> 00:09:35,973 But I think, yes, as you said, it's also true for within a product organization 176 00:09:35,973 --> 00:09:37,217 because you cannot work alone. 177 00:09:37,217 --> 00:09:38,297 You have to deal with people. 178 00:09:38,747 --> 00:09:39,047 Yeah. 179 00:09:39,107 --> 00:09:44,507 So I think a holistic understanding of the organization that has worked 180 00:09:44,507 --> 00:09:49,067 for me, meaning that having an appreciation and understanding of 181 00:09:49,067 --> 00:09:53,676 the goals and the concerns and the skills and the qualities that each 182 00:09:53,676 --> 00:09:57,777 of these parts of the organizations bring in or parts of the organization. 183 00:09:57,777 --> 00:10:01,032 Obviously, it was just one example of sales marketing versus, 184 00:10:01,099 --> 00:10:02,591 like product and engineering. 185 00:10:02,620 --> 00:10:06,561 Let's say, although it's of course a simplified, picture of this, but 186 00:10:06,616 --> 00:10:10,695 having having holistic understanding, listening understanding where 187 00:10:10,695 --> 00:10:14,895 individuals come from, what they would like to achieve, what are their goals 188 00:10:14,902 --> 00:10:16,890 and So that's definitely a start. 189 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:22,660 It's a very important start, lay out, how people are thinking know on this issue. 190 00:10:22,660 --> 00:10:27,579 And I think also I had to have many years in which I was able 191 00:10:27,579 --> 00:10:29,769 to learn this skill right. 192 00:10:29,799 --> 00:10:30,549 To understand. 193 00:10:31,364 --> 00:10:36,134 Where this is coming from also to be aware, to develop a consciousness about 194 00:10:36,254 --> 00:10:39,144 what a company is meant to be doing. 195 00:10:39,153 --> 00:10:42,933 And to translate that to the individual in your team or in other teams. 196 00:10:43,053 --> 00:10:47,293 So reality, for example, in today's world realizing that the company. 197 00:10:47,888 --> 00:10:52,072 Primary goal is to really compete in a market to, create value, 198 00:10:52,072 --> 00:10:55,342 to create products that make an income that's happening. 199 00:10:55,342 --> 00:10:58,732 If you work in a capitalistic environment, which most of us do. 200 00:10:59,212 --> 00:11:04,330 And then that means that each of these teams that exist sales, product, 201 00:11:04,540 --> 00:11:08,590 marketing, finance, they all have roles in order to achieve that goal. 202 00:11:08,620 --> 00:11:11,560 So I was also the CEO of a smaller company. 203 00:11:12,125 --> 00:11:15,335 But regardless of how big the company is, your responsibility in 204 00:11:15,335 --> 00:11:20,225 the end of the day is to really make sure you're viable as a business. 205 00:11:20,225 --> 00:11:24,359 And you do what's expected and then try to encourage every team member 206 00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:26,849 to move into the same direction. 207 00:11:27,239 --> 00:11:31,739 So I'm listening and being conscious about the environment and translating it 208 00:11:31,769 --> 00:11:34,289 back to the individual is very important. 209 00:11:34,619 --> 00:11:38,493 And I think also as a leader maybe as a senior manager, it's important 210 00:11:38,493 --> 00:11:43,533 that you, one lesson that I learned is that when you are in this. 211 00:11:44,673 --> 00:11:47,883 We have the responsibility of the people that you are for that 212 00:11:47,883 --> 00:11:50,043 follow you that are in your team. 213 00:11:50,523 --> 00:11:54,270 And you have those that are unit report to and respond to. 214 00:11:54,270 --> 00:11:57,853 It's not just you as a manager, you need to add value in the communication. 215 00:11:57,913 --> 00:12:01,933 So if you get a, if you get a goal that comes from above moving it down 216 00:12:02,035 --> 00:12:05,755 to your team, doesn't just mean you repeat what the leadership says right 217 00:12:05,755 --> 00:12:07,135 over, which the folks say about. 218 00:12:07,770 --> 00:12:09,270 But you need to understand it. 219 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:12,990 You need to be consciously aware of what it means for your team and 220 00:12:12,990 --> 00:12:16,751 then breaking it down to your team members and then the other way around. 221 00:12:16,811 --> 00:12:22,098 So if, for example, your engineers or your sales team is giving your feedback, giving 222 00:12:22,098 --> 00:12:24,408 your guidance as to what's happening. 223 00:12:24,408 --> 00:12:28,927 That for example, certain frameworks are not working or there's some big 224 00:12:28,927 --> 00:12:32,377 trends happening in the technology varmints, which now, particularly 225 00:12:32,377 --> 00:12:36,683 in AI, All the time, every month, there's new things happening, but I 226 00:12:36,683 --> 00:12:38,513 need to understand it as a leader. 227 00:12:38,513 --> 00:12:40,043 I need to appreciate it. 228 00:12:40,043 --> 00:12:40,433 Often. 229 00:12:40,433 --> 00:12:44,213 I give also my team and then the space to explore that and to translate it back 230 00:12:44,213 --> 00:12:46,477 to, to to the rest of the organization. 231 00:12:46,593 --> 00:12:51,155 So this, these are probably really two, three important aspect, listen carefully 232 00:12:51,185 --> 00:12:56,129 and understand, and then add value to the communication and contextualize it. 233 00:12:56,789 --> 00:12:59,039 The communication is a big part of all this. 234 00:12:59,539 --> 00:13:00,019 Totally. 235 00:13:00,019 --> 00:13:01,159 Thank you for sharing that. 236 00:13:01,159 --> 00:13:04,609 I think listening and understanding are so simple words, but yet 237 00:13:04,669 --> 00:13:08,809 these simple concepts can be so deep when it comes to practice. 238 00:13:09,299 --> 00:13:13,345 Just reminds me of a story of a leader whom I was working with recently. 239 00:13:13,825 --> 00:13:16,015 And they said that when they moved there at any. 240 00:13:16,695 --> 00:13:20,065 From what they was speaking, because that's how we relate communication. 241 00:13:20,065 --> 00:13:24,188 When he moved his attention from what he was speaking to, how his teammates and 242 00:13:24,188 --> 00:13:30,338 his boss was listening to him, it gave him totally new conversations to have, because 243 00:13:30,338 --> 00:13:33,968 then his attention was what is being listened rather than what am I speaking? 244 00:13:34,808 --> 00:13:38,258 And then this allowed this person to tailor his speaking, 245 00:13:38,408 --> 00:13:40,208 depending on what the other person. 246 00:13:41,228 --> 00:13:45,578 Listening to and not keep a one size fits all in, in communication. 247 00:13:45,578 --> 00:13:49,478 And I think that's what you highlighted in the contextual part of it. 248 00:13:49,478 --> 00:13:54,158 So you listen for different context and then tailor your communication because 249 00:13:54,158 --> 00:13:58,319 that's where and I think that's one of my biggest learnings was coming from the 250 00:13:58,319 --> 00:14:03,089 technology world that with computers, I can take my program and put it into any 251 00:14:03,089 --> 00:14:04,739 computer and it will do the same thing. 252 00:14:04,769 --> 00:14:07,346 But when I'm dealing with people Everybody's different. 253 00:14:07,466 --> 00:14:12,082 And it was very frustrating at first, but over time when I learned to tailor 254 00:14:12,082 --> 00:14:15,854 my communication, I think it became a big transformative moment for me. 255 00:14:15,873 --> 00:14:17,670 And it is a sense of control, right? 256 00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:23,610 When I programmed early on a computer, microprocessor allows you to the programs. 257 00:14:23,940 --> 00:14:25,989 They are highly repeatable, right? 258 00:14:26,018 --> 00:14:29,308 You know exactly you have the same functions and you have, that the. 259 00:14:30,678 --> 00:14:33,108 No, the monitor or whatever your problem is meant to be doing. 260 00:14:33,108 --> 00:14:35,178 It's like it has a certain execution. 261 00:14:35,178 --> 00:14:38,141 It will always be that way, obviously with other humans. 262 00:14:38,141 --> 00:14:39,024 That's not the case. 263 00:14:39,038 --> 00:14:43,486 And I think this listening part, if you're lucky, you also understand 264 00:14:43,486 --> 00:14:47,866 the assumptions, the underlying life assumptions of the other individual 265 00:14:47,866 --> 00:14:53,277 that you see that still today, clearly in in the bigger setup where culture, 266 00:14:53,397 --> 00:14:58,138 for example, is a the cultural setup in which individuals or operating, 267 00:14:58,188 --> 00:15:02,238 plays a big role in how people make decisions and how they be. 268 00:15:02,331 --> 00:15:05,781 And by those what I mean by these cultural assumptions, it could be 269 00:15:05,781 --> 00:15:11,100 for example religions or or other types of setups, where individuals 270 00:15:11,156 --> 00:15:14,726 have certain preferences, certain value hierarchies, which make them. 271 00:15:15,476 --> 00:15:18,386 Belief in certain things and act in certain ways. 272 00:15:18,866 --> 00:15:22,226 And that is a, that is very important to have a functioning communication. 273 00:15:22,376 --> 00:15:24,866 This is not easy to find out. 274 00:15:24,866 --> 00:15:25,946 It's not obvious. 275 00:15:25,983 --> 00:15:27,754 Having an awareness of it can help. 276 00:15:27,784 --> 00:15:31,596 And I say this in part, I have maybe part of my introduction or, I've been 277 00:15:31,596 --> 00:15:34,973 living in many parts of the world in many continents and I've been 278 00:15:34,973 --> 00:15:38,213 exposed to probably know every single. 279 00:15:38,248 --> 00:15:42,838 Culture in the world, different countries in Africa and the middle east and in the 280 00:15:42,866 --> 00:15:46,008 in Asia and Australia and south America. 281 00:15:46,458 --> 00:15:50,204 And of course, the still today, maybe in a hundred years time, 282 00:15:50,204 --> 00:15:53,054 we will be so intermingle that things will become much closer. 283 00:15:53,444 --> 00:15:57,522 But today that is still an important aspect to consider, right? 284 00:15:57,522 --> 00:16:02,561 Not everyone starts from the same background and I guess also I'm bringing. 285 00:16:03,186 --> 00:16:06,126 So maybe another aspect from a leadership perspective, at least 286 00:16:06,126 --> 00:16:07,806 my style, which helps me a lot. 287 00:16:08,586 --> 00:16:10,086 It's a good level of curiosity. 288 00:16:10,686 --> 00:16:11,978 So I'm very curious. 289 00:16:11,978 --> 00:16:17,259 I'm genuinely curious in another person, how they think what's the background, 290 00:16:17,259 --> 00:16:19,329 what's the interest, what's the ambition. 291 00:16:19,659 --> 00:16:21,099 How do they want to change the world? 292 00:16:21,157 --> 00:16:24,027 What do they see as being responsible for which role. 293 00:16:24,612 --> 00:16:30,153 In this big theater we call life, do they consider it being being their role, right? 294 00:16:30,153 --> 00:16:33,264 At this point in time, maybe changes tomorrow, but today. 295 00:16:33,264 --> 00:16:35,517 So that's a very important aspect. 296 00:16:35,877 --> 00:16:36,237 Yes. 297 00:16:36,237 --> 00:16:36,477 Yes. 298 00:16:36,477 --> 00:16:38,547 And I think you'd all city and control. 299 00:16:38,547 --> 00:16:39,387 I think these two things. 300 00:16:40,547 --> 00:16:43,037 And I see these as like poles apart. 301 00:16:43,037 --> 00:16:48,121 I think what people normally see as a lack of control can be anxiety producing 302 00:16:48,121 --> 00:16:49,825 or can be very difficult for people. 303 00:16:49,825 --> 00:16:54,415 But I, I see the opposite of control as curiosity, especially from a 304 00:16:54,415 --> 00:16:58,435 leadership point of view, because yes, we are living in a capitalist 305 00:16:58,435 --> 00:17:00,135 society where we want to control. 306 00:17:00,145 --> 00:17:02,485 We want to predict the future yet. 307 00:17:02,485 --> 00:17:04,945 At the same time, we are living in a world, which is. 308 00:17:06,025 --> 00:17:09,985 Like intermingling global, even most of it with Corona. 309 00:17:09,985 --> 00:17:14,185 And like with the widespread use of virtual communication, you 310 00:17:14,185 --> 00:17:17,815 cannot take things for granted of how others are listening to us. 311 00:17:17,815 --> 00:17:22,585 So I think curiosity from a leadership point of view is a very powerful mood 312 00:17:22,585 --> 00:17:26,845 to live in because it takes care of not just productivity, but also wellbeing. 313 00:17:26,959 --> 00:17:27,199 Yeah. 314 00:17:27,289 --> 00:17:28,579 Yeah, exactly. 315 00:17:28,589 --> 00:17:34,168 And I think also the The individuals that I worked with had some of 316 00:17:34,168 --> 00:17:39,718 those qualities when I'm looking at those leaders and managers and 317 00:17:40,258 --> 00:17:44,247 that I had, I'm seeing a couple of. 318 00:17:45,282 --> 00:17:49,914 Quantities, but I really appreciate, there is, for example, curiosity, the current 319 00:17:49,914 --> 00:17:56,368 company, for example, or a CEO is a curious person, and the nature of the way. 320 00:17:57,253 --> 00:17:59,503 The company lead is along those lines. 321 00:17:59,553 --> 00:18:01,563 Curiosity is a very important aspect. 322 00:18:02,643 --> 00:18:07,900 Another leader, another manager and supervisor that I had years 323 00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:11,177 back influenced me a lot of patience, a lot of empathy. 324 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,300 Someone who lays almost every time I was in a meeting, I was 325 00:18:15,300 --> 00:18:16,832 inspired, like I have some wow. 326 00:18:17,667 --> 00:18:19,827 I couldn't get out of the meeting early enough to start 327 00:18:20,097 --> 00:18:21,777 implementing not what we discussed. 328 00:18:22,227 --> 00:18:28,017 So there was a rigorous exchange, a very smart person had good enough answers 329 00:18:28,017 --> 00:18:31,791 to the questions that I had and team members, Ted and that's worked very well. 330 00:18:31,971 --> 00:18:33,021 It's worth noting though. 331 00:18:33,021 --> 00:18:37,303 I also learned in the same session that there are obviously matches right? 332 00:18:37,303 --> 00:18:39,856 For certain leaders that worked really well for them. 333 00:18:40,526 --> 00:18:43,676 I know people in the same team that absolutely didn't that 334 00:18:43,676 --> 00:18:44,708 didn't work for them at all. 335 00:18:44,771 --> 00:18:49,351 So it depends obviously, but also on that match between the style that you 336 00:18:49,381 --> 00:18:53,003 have and how does it match the team that you have, I think there is no 337 00:18:53,013 --> 00:18:55,163 leadership style that covers all of it. 338 00:18:55,166 --> 00:18:57,763 There will always be some that want to have a more stricter or 339 00:18:57,763 --> 00:19:02,233 authoritarian way of working and maybe that suits us more in small property. 340 00:19:02,233 --> 00:19:04,644 It so it really depends also. 341 00:19:05,126 --> 00:19:05,456 Yeah. 342 00:19:05,726 --> 00:19:10,076 And can you share a more, a little bit more about that person or what they said 343 00:19:10,076 --> 00:19:15,535 or what they did in that meeting or a series of events to found where you see 344 00:19:15,535 --> 00:19:17,695 that balance between managing pressure? 345 00:19:17,716 --> 00:19:21,214 Often results predicting desserts, because as a leader, as leaders, we all 346 00:19:21,214 --> 00:19:25,213 are responsible for producing outcomes in a very real, very measurable, 347 00:19:25,213 --> 00:19:30,343 tangible outcomes yet at the same time, that underground layer between 348 00:19:30,373 --> 00:19:34,123 beneath all of that is the layer of emotions is a layer of human connection. 349 00:19:34,543 --> 00:19:37,012 So can you share what happened in that particular event? 350 00:19:37,012 --> 00:19:39,712 Or is there anything else that you would recommend to leaders. 351 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,490 So as mentioned, probably this is a recommendation, you need to be 352 00:19:44,490 --> 00:19:46,440 aware in which situation you are. 353 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,470 So I wouldn't want to make just a blatant recommendation, all leaders 354 00:19:49,470 --> 00:19:53,340 to follow, but I do think that almost all leaders will benefit. 355 00:19:54,045 --> 00:19:57,161 Like your leader, if you manage to have followers, and it is important 356 00:19:57,161 --> 00:20:01,541 that case to have empathy, to put yourself into the shoes of those that 357 00:20:01,931 --> 00:20:06,221 you want to inspire, that you want to help and want to lead and want to 358 00:20:06,221 --> 00:20:08,021 manage and want to give a perspective. 359 00:20:08,411 --> 00:20:12,362 I think that is something that I see that quality very much in this individual. 360 00:20:12,432 --> 00:20:14,472 And it, wasn't only on a professional level. 361 00:20:14,472 --> 00:20:16,307 It wasn't only okay what do you want to check? 362 00:20:16,307 --> 00:20:17,687 How much do you want to earn a year? 363 00:20:17,687 --> 00:20:18,587 Your KPIs? 364 00:20:19,157 --> 00:20:21,107 It was actually almost the opposite, right? 365 00:20:21,107 --> 00:20:26,234 It was giving you the space of making your decisions which I found very 366 00:20:26,234 --> 00:20:31,334 important and almost like focusing more about how to describe the challenge. 367 00:20:31,428 --> 00:20:34,068 And what that, what achieving the challenge would mean. 368 00:20:34,135 --> 00:20:37,949 Maybe the story about now I may or may not get the whole story together, 369 00:20:37,949 --> 00:20:42,359 but it's a bit like when you want to convince people, building a boat 370 00:20:42,449 --> 00:20:43,789 and going to the other side of the. 371 00:20:43,789 --> 00:20:47,136 ocean Don't tell them all the hard work, cutting the trees 372 00:20:47,136 --> 00:20:48,816 and putting the boat together. 373 00:20:48,816 --> 00:20:51,847 And then we, talk to them about, what it means to have this boat and 374 00:20:51,847 --> 00:20:54,938 exploring the alternate, exploring new countries, like speak of the 375 00:20:54,978 --> 00:20:56,868 possibilities, focus on those things. 376 00:20:56,868 --> 00:21:01,334 Focus on the purpose, focus on the meaning of doing this this type of work. 377 00:21:01,334 --> 00:21:05,584 And I think at least in my case with this individual that has helped me and it 378 00:21:05,584 --> 00:21:07,884 gives perspective, it gives a much wider. 379 00:21:08,694 --> 00:21:13,314 Of your role and the role of the project, the organization and the team. 380 00:21:13,854 --> 00:21:14,814 Why am I here? 381 00:21:14,844 --> 00:21:16,056 It's answering that question. 382 00:21:16,176 --> 00:21:16,956 Why am I here? 383 00:21:18,406 --> 00:21:22,719 Yes, I think what you're pointing out is something with Simon Sinek also calls VI. 384 00:21:23,169 --> 00:21:27,644 And I think for me, it's the very project focused or very task oriented 385 00:21:27,644 --> 00:21:31,544 thinking and zooming out and seeing things from a bigger picture and then 386 00:21:31,544 --> 00:21:35,584 making maybe some different choices from what that new perspective brings. 387 00:21:36,779 --> 00:21:37,109 Yes. 388 00:21:37,259 --> 00:21:37,679 Thank you. 389 00:21:37,679 --> 00:21:39,209 Thank you for sharing, sharing that. 390 00:21:39,209 --> 00:21:39,329 Yeah. 391 00:21:39,396 --> 00:21:39,831 Of course. 392 00:21:39,861 --> 00:21:40,401 No worries. 393 00:21:40,711 --> 00:21:40,981 Yeah. 394 00:21:41,031 --> 00:21:41,321 Yeah. 395 00:21:41,561 --> 00:21:46,080 It's certainly it's certainly, I want to also emphasize again, that this, that 396 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,673 match between the leader and those set are led it's a matching, it's a matching. 397 00:21:50,703 --> 00:21:51,273 I see. 398 00:21:51,283 --> 00:21:52,983 Now I have been seasoned. 399 00:21:53,013 --> 00:21:57,573 I have been in different roles as a leader, and I noticed also that if I'm 400 00:21:57,573 --> 00:22:01,310 taking over the teams, which I haven't hired in the beginning when I did this. 401 00:22:02,165 --> 00:22:03,455 Quite some while ago. 402 00:22:03,455 --> 00:22:07,415 I remember that I was surprised how different, what they expect, 403 00:22:07,565 --> 00:22:11,465 that the expectations were quite a different of that team towards me, 404 00:22:11,495 --> 00:22:15,425 but the dynamics, the chemistry was very different as opposed to those 405 00:22:15,425 --> 00:22:17,624 that I I hired where we had to match. 406 00:22:17,749 --> 00:22:23,253 Hope to say, like the right set up, that we, so I had to change my style. 407 00:22:23,253 --> 00:22:24,783 I had to adapt my style. 408 00:22:24,855 --> 00:22:28,505 I had to be more open and I had to be more broad minded, and understanding 409 00:22:28,505 --> 00:22:33,852 and be curious again, as to what the expectations are and how do I bring the 410 00:22:33,852 --> 00:22:38,373 team together of quite diverse styles of thinking, I guess it comes with the 411 00:22:38,403 --> 00:22:43,061 going up in the the business hierarchy that you grow with your challenges. 412 00:22:43,115 --> 00:22:43,205 Yeah. 413 00:22:43,235 --> 00:22:43,625 Yes. 414 00:22:44,045 --> 00:22:44,285 Yeah. 415 00:22:44,315 --> 00:22:47,135 And as your support spoke about changing, as you spoke about being 416 00:22:47,135 --> 00:22:50,735 seasoned, is there any particular belief around leadership, which you 417 00:22:50,735 --> 00:22:52,595 have changed your view over time? 418 00:22:53,112 --> 00:22:55,534 I think I learned something every day. 419 00:22:55,534 --> 00:22:56,267 I think that it's. 420 00:22:57,192 --> 00:23:04,512 Maybe I can highlight two things like one is that in your career, but by and large, 421 00:23:05,592 --> 00:23:10,032 it's a tendency moving from knowing the technology, knowing the things that you 422 00:23:10,032 --> 00:23:13,635 learned in school learning the technical things that say it doesn't matter if 423 00:23:13,635 --> 00:23:19,215 it's it or legal or anything that you move over time, that the expectation 424 00:23:19,215 --> 00:23:22,695 is higher and higher as you grow in the organization that you understand that. 425 00:23:23,595 --> 00:23:26,055 So you're moving much more from understanding the ticket. 426 00:23:26,985 --> 00:23:30,105 So understanding the social environment that Roger can be, the 427 00:23:30,105 --> 00:23:34,605 customers can be people in your team can be your can your coworkers can 428 00:23:34,605 --> 00:23:35,865 be the rest of the organization. 429 00:23:35,865 --> 00:23:37,425 So there's a clear transition. 430 00:23:37,845 --> 00:23:42,015 And I think it is in the benefit you stay purely in a technical 431 00:23:42,015 --> 00:23:44,295 position and that's also perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it. 432 00:23:44,325 --> 00:23:44,655 Obviously. 433 00:23:45,435 --> 00:23:49,815 A few, a long, very long in an organization and you a 434 00:23:50,115 --> 00:23:51,795 primarily a technology person. 435 00:23:51,825 --> 00:23:52,725 That's perfectly fine. 436 00:23:52,725 --> 00:23:54,075 You need those properties too. 437 00:23:54,095 --> 00:23:57,918 But generally speaking, there's a tendency for you to understand more, 438 00:23:57,948 --> 00:23:59,898 to introduce the new people into the. 439 00:24:00,383 --> 00:24:03,993 That's something I learned early and I see this very much implemented. 440 00:24:04,253 --> 00:24:08,458 The expectation by me for me is not only to know the latest algorithm, 441 00:24:08,488 --> 00:24:11,368 but to actually also understand how do I attract the people that 442 00:24:11,368 --> 00:24:14,728 know the latest awkward, how do I keep them all happy and meaningful? 443 00:24:14,758 --> 00:24:15,298 It's all right. 444 00:24:15,688 --> 00:24:18,687 The other thing is, I think that's an overall macro trends, in the 445 00:24:18,687 --> 00:24:20,127 ecosystem, if you compare it. 446 00:24:20,882 --> 00:24:25,862 Let's say if the leadership style or the expectation of a manager or CEO or 50 447 00:24:25,862 --> 00:24:31,472 years back to today, it has certainly become more wide and compassionate in. 448 00:24:31,538 --> 00:24:36,648 And now I'm also slightly biased here because I know the it AI world. 449 00:24:36,708 --> 00:24:40,266 And I know it mostly from a I'll just say Western point of view. 450 00:24:40,266 --> 00:24:43,476 Although I have been also working in the middle east and I'm aware of lots 451 00:24:43,476 --> 00:24:45,626 of colleagues in other countries, but. 452 00:24:46,746 --> 00:24:51,906 There is an expectation, particularly by the younger generation that the value 453 00:24:51,906 --> 00:24:54,696 offer by the company when you're employed. 454 00:24:54,756 --> 00:24:55,386 It's not only one. 455 00:24:55,386 --> 00:24:56,913 He has a paycheck, he is the money. 456 00:24:57,123 --> 00:24:58,323 You should be happy work. 457 00:24:58,833 --> 00:25:00,333 There is much more expectation. 458 00:25:00,363 --> 00:25:02,583 You need to have a good plan or. 459 00:25:03,378 --> 00:25:07,318 Expanding of learning more of having opportunities to grow. 460 00:25:07,368 --> 00:25:08,688 You want to be respected. 461 00:25:08,718 --> 00:25:12,484 You want to have a purpose in the organization that you're working in. 462 00:25:12,537 --> 00:25:14,037 So let's say the. 463 00:25:15,267 --> 00:25:20,187 The value that you're offering an employee or that you offer anyone that joins a 464 00:25:20,197 --> 00:25:26,378 company is becoming more becoming wider becoming it's not just the hard money, 465 00:25:26,618 --> 00:25:30,308 but it's also other aspects you want to work in an inspiring environment. 466 00:25:30,368 --> 00:25:31,868 You want to work with colleagues that are. 467 00:25:32,993 --> 00:25:35,256 Supportive for heart or whatever you need. 468 00:25:35,256 --> 00:25:36,395 So it becomes wider. 469 00:25:36,395 --> 00:25:37,849 I think that's a very clear trend. 470 00:25:37,879 --> 00:25:40,789 And then of course, what that means as a leader or manager, is 471 00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:42,169 you need to understand that too. 472 00:25:42,199 --> 00:25:47,556 And in encapsulate these, I think if you have a leader of 50 years back, which 473 00:25:47,556 --> 00:25:53,556 is very harsh and hard and very happens, it can also be appropriate, but there's 474 00:25:53,586 --> 00:25:55,264 definitely a need to have a wider way of. 475 00:25:55,749 --> 00:25:59,249 Just before we wrap up, like you spoke about 50 years back. 476 00:25:59,249 --> 00:26:02,162 And I think everybody agrees that there is a huge difference 477 00:26:02,162 --> 00:26:06,422 in where we are today in the style of leadership from 50 years ago. 478 00:26:06,872 --> 00:26:08,882 Where do you think we are going in the future? 479 00:26:08,882 --> 00:26:11,702 And I won't say 50 years into the future because the rate of change 480 00:26:11,702 --> 00:26:14,282 itself is accelerating so much. 481 00:26:14,282 --> 00:26:18,956 So maybe in the next two decades, where do you think we are going with this AI. 482 00:26:19,826 --> 00:26:23,592 In permitting almost everything, which is which is mechanical, which is road. 483 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:28,461 And then what does the role of a leader really becomes if AI basically takes up 484 00:26:28,491 --> 00:26:31,668 almost everything, which is like very structured, which is very rational. 485 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:34,721 So I think I've probably two considerations and I've been in in 486 00:26:34,721 --> 00:26:40,295 several leadership courses and workshops with leaders set up today, directors, 487 00:26:40,295 --> 00:26:43,830 or that under 35 prodigies of companies. 488 00:26:43,860 --> 00:26:45,716 And a similar question then comes up. 489 00:26:45,746 --> 00:26:46,646 What does a leader need? 490 00:26:46,646 --> 00:26:50,436 You're not in the age of AI and the age of intelligence systems and the HR data. 491 00:26:50,436 --> 00:26:53,454 I think one important part is that you surround yourself. 492 00:26:53,518 --> 00:26:58,146 With people that you trust that know these new technologies you want to be 493 00:26:58,146 --> 00:27:01,923 very confident that you're on top of that of these types of technologies. 494 00:27:01,923 --> 00:27:04,704 Seven would be, I think that is one trends where you need to 495 00:27:04,704 --> 00:27:06,834 be over the next two decades. 496 00:27:07,614 --> 00:27:14,154 The really surrounding yourself with that because there's a, AI is a technology 497 00:27:14,154 --> 00:27:17,772 just to take that technology that a couple of others, that gentleman and so on. 498 00:27:18,132 --> 00:27:21,125 But it is something that requires very much your attention to that will 499 00:27:21,125 --> 00:27:23,055 require a different type of thinking. 500 00:27:23,125 --> 00:27:27,355 Also how the team and everyone in an organization of customers 501 00:27:27,385 --> 00:27:29,845 are using AI based technology. 502 00:27:29,865 --> 00:27:31,555 So I think that's a very important part. 503 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:32,440 And the second part. 504 00:27:32,465 --> 00:27:36,635 I think this trend will continue that we have the more 505 00:27:36,635 --> 00:27:39,395 democratized work environment. 506 00:27:39,785 --> 00:27:42,450 I think there will be more Oh, what do you want to call it? 507 00:27:42,660 --> 00:27:47,010 More expectations by everyone to be more involved, to be having a 508 00:27:47,010 --> 00:27:51,630 more transparent organization, to understand what leaders should does 509 00:27:52,530 --> 00:27:56,495 now with the age of the internet, which is the previous big wave that we 510 00:27:56,495 --> 00:28:01,725 experienced in some countries, such as Sweden, where I'm currently living in. 511 00:28:01,725 --> 00:28:04,230 We have essentially everything is online. 512 00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:05,040 So every company. 513 00:28:05,935 --> 00:28:08,655 Has to publish and everyone can look it up. 514 00:28:08,784 --> 00:28:10,134 How many people live there? 515 00:28:11,034 --> 00:28:12,744 What is the revenue of the company? 516 00:28:12,744 --> 00:28:14,184 Everything is pretty transparent. 517 00:28:14,394 --> 00:28:18,624 I think there's a higher expectation for those things to be transparent. 518 00:28:18,624 --> 00:28:23,334 And therefore, as this happens, they will also be a larger degree of democracy. 519 00:28:23,754 --> 00:28:27,144 And I think that doesn't only mean things will be easier for leaders. 520 00:28:27,144 --> 00:28:27,944 In fact, I think. 521 00:28:28,914 --> 00:28:32,394 You need to think about how you deal with that, because now suddenly you 522 00:28:32,394 --> 00:28:35,788 have many employees in the organization that have access to information, 523 00:28:35,788 --> 00:28:39,841 which 50 years ago were impossible to, will you have your hands on? 524 00:28:39,841 --> 00:28:42,116 And that can be good thing if you know what to do with it. 525 00:28:43,286 --> 00:28:43,556 Yes. 526 00:28:43,556 --> 00:28:44,156 I think that. 527 00:28:45,266 --> 00:28:49,946 And the democratization of almost everything we do, is it still for 528 00:28:49,946 --> 00:28:53,606 good, very good metaphor for the way leadership and management is moving 529 00:28:53,606 --> 00:28:57,986 forward where people want to be involved and yes, that might be challenging 530 00:28:57,986 --> 00:29:01,226 or that might produce some anxiety or some change in the short term. 531 00:29:01,766 --> 00:29:02,326 But I think over. 532 00:29:03,006 --> 00:29:06,372 There's a huge potential of a lot of productivity getting unlocked, which is 533 00:29:06,402 --> 00:29:11,456 somehow inhibited because of because of the 50 year old management style still 534 00:29:11,876 --> 00:29:15,486 creeping in, in the language and the tools we use in the frameworks we use. 535 00:29:15,486 --> 00:29:19,204 So I'm quite hopeful for what the democratization of technology 536 00:29:19,204 --> 00:29:21,664 or leadership and yeah. 537 00:29:21,674 --> 00:29:24,541 What if leadership is like peer to peer like internet works 538 00:29:24,541 --> 00:29:26,751 and what would that enable? 539 00:29:26,764 --> 00:29:29,494 And yes, new skills, but also a lot of new places. 540 00:29:29,601 --> 00:29:33,621 And that would bring that's another consideration that there will be much 541 00:29:33,621 --> 00:29:37,715 more how to say giving responsibilities to individuals in the organization along 542 00:29:37,715 --> 00:29:41,172 the lines of, would you say you can take the lead on a particular topic, right? 543 00:29:41,172 --> 00:29:44,132 And that's your responsibility in the organization and that's. 544 00:29:44,199 --> 00:29:45,521 That's already happening now. 545 00:29:45,521 --> 00:29:47,171 I do that a fair bit too. 546 00:29:47,228 --> 00:29:50,038 And yeah, it's a it's a lot of opportunities. 547 00:29:50,068 --> 00:29:53,308 Turn this into the right direction or make everyone happy and also 548 00:29:53,308 --> 00:29:55,168 make your role in an organization. 549 00:29:55,168 --> 00:29:55,798 More meaningful. 550 00:29:56,218 --> 00:29:58,278 I think that's what democratization can do. 551 00:29:58,783 --> 00:29:59,113 Yeah. 552 00:29:59,503 --> 00:30:00,043 Thank you. 553 00:30:00,073 --> 00:30:02,083 Thank you, Christian, for your wonderful thoughts. 554 00:30:02,383 --> 00:30:06,373 So before we end, if anybody who is listening to this wants to 555 00:30:06,433 --> 00:30:09,788 know more about, you wants to get in touch with, feed about your 556 00:30:09,788 --> 00:30:11,378 work, where can they find you 557 00:30:12,398 --> 00:30:13,148 contact me? 558 00:30:13,208 --> 00:30:17,768 I am on I'm sharing lots of great articles on LinkedIn. 559 00:30:17,828 --> 00:30:20,618 LinkedIn is a great channel to be in touch with me and Twitter. 560 00:30:21,038 --> 00:30:22,688 I'm also on Instagram. 561 00:30:22,718 --> 00:30:25,748 Look me up Christian Guttmann, happy to be in touch then. 562 00:30:25,803 --> 00:30:30,236 And yeah, on Twitter, Chris STG, you'll find me there. 563 00:30:31,226 --> 00:30:32,636 Don't hesitate to be in touch. 564 00:30:33,416 --> 00:30:33,986 Thank you. 565 00:30:34,046 --> 00:30:34,826 Thank you, Christian. 566 00:30:34,826 --> 00:30:37,346 Once again for your time and for sharing your insights. 567 00:30:38,186 --> 00:30:38,606 Thank you. 568 00:30:38,666 --> 00:30:39,706 Thanks for having me Sumit. 569 00:30:40,196 --> 00:30:40,496 Yeah. 570 00:30:41,382 --> 00:30:44,772 That's it for this episode of choosing leadership with summit. 571 00:30:45,912 --> 00:30:49,602 I choose leadership every time I record this podcast and I 572 00:30:49,602 --> 00:30:51,042 invite you to do the same. 573 00:30:51,492 --> 00:30:55,872 I invite you to design a life of joy, meaning pride and satisfaction. 574 00:30:56,352 --> 00:30:59,292 Not just for yourself, but also for those around you. 575 00:31:00,132 --> 00:31:04,272 This is what I do most naturally to lovingly and gently provoke you. 576 00:31:04,722 --> 00:31:09,192 To help you see your own light to help you see what you are already capable of. 577 00:31:09,672 --> 00:31:13,572 I say what might be uncomfortable for me to say, or for you to hear. 578 00:31:14,172 --> 00:31:19,292 To show you that all of our dreams which have been on hold are within our grasp. 579 00:31:20,922 --> 00:31:24,162 If you like the sound of it, do not forget to leave a rating. 580 00:31:24,732 --> 00:31:28,932 I invite you to subscribe to my newsletter@deployyourself.com 581 00:31:29,262 --> 00:31:30,222 slash newsletter. 582 00:31:30,852 --> 00:31:34,692 You can also reach out on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook to share 583 00:31:34,752 --> 00:31:36,372 any other comment or feedback. 584 00:31:37,242 --> 00:31:40,692 I want to thank everyone who contributed to making the show. 585 00:31:40,752 --> 00:31:41,442 At reality. 586 00:31:41,952 --> 00:31:43,512 And thank you for listening. 587 00:31:43,992 --> 00:31:48,522 Always remember that you are enough, you are loved and you matter, this is summit. 588 00:31:48,912 --> 00:31:51,462 Until next time, keep choosing leadership.