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Travis Bader: Today's guest has nearly
three decades of experience with the

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RCMP, including roles in North Vancouver,
federal units, and university policing.

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He has trained throughout North
American firearms, national

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security, counter terrorism, and
both public and personal safety.

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He has a rich background
in criminal interdiction.

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Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Ian Simm.

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Ian Sim: Good day, sir.

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Nice to meet you.

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Finally,

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Travis Bader: it is good to meet you, man.

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We've had a lot of back and forth
through text message and email,

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well, mostly text, I guess, say, and
then voice talking back and forth.

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Yeah.

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It's been a bit now, hasn't it?

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Ian Sim: Yeah.

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And well, and I was going to try
and meet you earlier, but a month

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of COVID kind of gotten the way.

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Um, but then I realized we've
got a lot of Friends in common.

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Travis Bader: Yeah.

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We, we got a lot of mutual
acquaintances and friends, don't we?

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Yep.

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Yeah, I think, uh, you were saying
you watch your very first podcast

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and that was, uh, the one with Seb.

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Yeah, Seb Lavoie.

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That's right.

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Ian Sim: Um, I, we've crossed paths a
number of times in the RCMP over the

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years, um, on the range, uh, empty hand
training course, um, some commonality

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in, in, um, with some covert stuff.

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Yeah.

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Um, Yeah.

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And then I talked to him, he's
big with the podcasts and yeah, my

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really, my first podcast I watched
last night with you and Seb.

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Travis Bader: Well, I'm flattered
to be your first podcast.

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Um, what's kind of
interesting here is recently.

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So I, I traveled up north with my
wife and we went to a, Uh, well,

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I guess I can talk about it now.

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Usually I leave the names aside, but it's
already been aired, but I went to Rachel

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Attila's place and we recorded a podcast.

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She's a professional rancher.

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She's a professional
trapper, professional guide.

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And she had spent about four years
trying to get an authorization to carry

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a restricted firearm to protect her
life out in a remote wilderness area.

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And of course the firearms
act regulations permits that.

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And it says, if you're working in a remote
wilderness area, you're not allowed to

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Um, if you meet the certain requirements,
you can go out and you can train.

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And it's been massively well received,
lots of comments, lots of people emailing,

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lots of people contacting the office.

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And one of the things that tends to
come up a lot is, well, that's all well

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and good for somebody who's working
out in a remote wilderness area.

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Why can't we defend ourselves?

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Why can't we?

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Stand up for ourselves in a similar
way to how the Americans will stand

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up for themselves in the States
against a two legged predator.

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Why is it only applicable for
wilderness areas and remote areas?

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And I think you have some background
in this and you've got a very proactive

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approach to communicating information.

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I've looked at some of the stuff
you've done within your policing

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career and you, you've You operate
a little bit differently than the

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norm, which really intrigued me.

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And I can go into that further in a
bit, but I'm going to let you chat.

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Oh,

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Ian Sim: yeah.

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Well,

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self preservation is, is
the first law of nature.

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Yes.

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So, um, what the last million
years, let's say, tens of thousands

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of years, um, security of person
is the first law of humanity.

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You know, security of person, section
seven of our charter, everyone has the

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right to life, liberty, and security of
person, not to be deprived thereof, except

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in accordance with fundamental justice,
um, section seven of our charter is, is

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the right of all rights, without which
all your other rights are meaningless.

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If you're not safe, your
other rights are useless.

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Um, and it, and it's,
it's security of person.

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Travis Bader: Right.

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Ian Sim: These are not group rights,
collective rights, mob rights.

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These are individual human rights.

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Um, most Canadians can't tell you
what section seven of the charter is.

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I just call it the right to be safe,
but it is the right of all rights.

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Section seven.

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Well, where did, where did
security of person come from?

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UN declaration of human rights, 1948.

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Security of person, Canadian
bill of rights, 1960, security

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of person, Canadian charter of
rights, 1982, security of person.

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So security of person is a thing,
been around for a long time.

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And

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we're filthy rich Western democracy here.

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We've had it very good
for a very long time.

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Uh, we're still, you know, in around
the world, we're still one of the top

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destinations that people want to live in.

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And as a result, we have probably
lost sight of, um, the concept of

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Democracy, liberty, human rights.

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Um, they just really haven't
been that much of a thing.

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Travis Bader: Why do you think that is?

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Ian Sim: Because we're a
rich Western democracy.

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We've had it good.

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Um, we, we, we haven't faced, uh, you
know, um, wars and famine and pestilence.

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I mean, COVID was a bit weird, but so,
you know, we've done many things, right.

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Some things were just
maybe good luck, right.

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Uh, and we'll take it, but you know,
I worked almost a decade, uh, at, uh,

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UBC, University of British Columbia.

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I'll meet kids out there raising
money for Amnesty International,

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you know, say, Hey, how's it going?

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Um, you know, what do you think
the most important human right

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we have is under the charter now?

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You know, a lot of, um, international
students, some are American, so they're

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not familiar with our charter, but even
the Canadian kids, they're like, um, you

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know, and they're out there raising money
for Amnesty International, which is a

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race based, rights based organization.

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And they can't tell me
what the charter says.

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Most people can't.

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And, and I understand it.

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And I just think that we need
to perhaps put a little bit more

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of that in our high schools.

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Um, you hear rights all the time, right?

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Everyone's got rights.

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Everyone's claiming rights.

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You know, you, you hear it at
protests, counter protesters, um, but.

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The charter is the Supreme law of Canada
and the Supreme court of Canada will

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assess our legislation, municipal,
provincial, federal against the charter.

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It's not perfect.

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Um, you know, uh, there are,
there have been countries where,

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you know, um, 1930s Germany.

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Um, a lot of what they did was
legal courts, judges, Western

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democracy up until that point.

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Um, you know, people stack the
Supreme Court in the United States.

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People kind of try and stack
the Supreme Court up here.

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It's not perfect.

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I get it, but you know, our Supreme
Court, And our system in Canada

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is pretty good when you compare
it to the rest of the world.

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Travis Bader: Yeah.

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I mean, it's not going to
stop people from complaining.

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There's always going to be
things that can poke holes in.

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I get it.

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I've been guilty of it myself, but
when we take that a little bit more

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of a, uh, overview, take a step
back and look at it, there's a lot.

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That is good with the system that we have.

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And I think if people are properly
educated as to how this system can work

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for them and how perhaps the system
is designed to be, uh, to be used.

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I, I, I'm hoping that will at
least in one small piece be where

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this podcast can help people.

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Ian Sim: So I'm not going to
change the educational system

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in BC probably, uh, or Canada.

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Um, but when I talk at, uh, I've
talked at university classes before,

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I've presented there, I presented at
Douglas college criminology courses.

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I presented and taught courses
at the justice Institute.

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Um, the topic of rights often comes up.

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I recently taught a class at
the Justice Institute on police

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leadership for international students.

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Okay.

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Mostly lawyers from various countries
around the world and inevitably rights

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comes up because, you know, they're,
um, most of them, uh, are, you know,

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Uh, are, are so thankful to be in Canada
studying, many of them want to stay here.

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And that's in large part
because we have rights because

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Canada isn't like back home.

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So we do a lot of things.

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Well, uh, I think history is important,
the good, the bad, and the ugly.

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And it's interesting that the,
the international students

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sometimes are more interested in
our rights and sometimes no more.

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So, and, and, you know, different,
they're coming from different cultures,

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different countries, India, Iran, Brazil.

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I walked in a class, uh, that, that last
class I taught and some of the students

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stood up when I walked in the room.

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Hmm.

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As a sign of respect.

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Yeah, I was stunned.

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I like, I kind of looked over
and I'm like, what's going on?

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And then I quickly clued in
as to what was happening.

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They were a bit older.

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Um, many of them were lawyers, um,
but, but very polite, very respectful.

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Um, it can get a bit, uh, Testy in with
Canadian kids in Canadian classrooms.

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I'm good with it.

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Everything's on the table, A to Z, just
let's not yell and scream at each other.

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So, and then working at the university
of British Columbia for almost a

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decade, I had the opportunity to meet
people from all over the world who

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I never would have met otherwise.

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And I get stuck right
in, Hey, how's it going?

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Where are you from?

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Um, some clearly aren't interested in
talking to a uniformed police officer.

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Um, many are.

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Sure.

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I was there during COVID, BLM,
US election, you know, as, as a

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white colonial settler cop, as
I was, uh, called once or twice.

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Travis Bader: Um.

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You've never heard that before, have you?

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Right.

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Ian Sim: So, you know, I defund the cops.

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All cops are bastards down on rec beach.

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I mean, rec beaches is.

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It's kind of an alien
planet on an alien planet.

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Travis Bader: Yeah.

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A little microcosm unto itself.

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Ian Sim: You know what?

00:11:16.895 --> 00:11:20.565
It's got a very, um, colorful clientele.

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And I, I, I, I mean, I
wouldn't have it any other way.

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Yeah.

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I mean, that's part of the reason why I
went to a university of British Columbia.

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Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:11:27.444 --> 00:11:29.164
Ian Sim: But we need to do a better job.

00:11:29.510 --> 00:11:35.540
Um, with, um, our history,
celebrating what we got right,

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celebrating what we do right.

00:11:39.300 --> 00:11:43.839
Um, and not forgetting,
uh, lessons of the past.

00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:46.110
Um, what to do and what not to do.

00:11:46.620 --> 00:11:49.450
And I, I just, rights are a thing.

00:11:49.450 --> 00:11:49.980
They're not going away.

00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:50.970
Travis Bader: Right.

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You know, there's some people who would
look at the charter of rights and freedoms

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and say, you know, it's fantastic.

00:11:57.680 --> 00:12:00.410
We've got these rights enshrined and
there's other people who would look at

00:12:00.420 --> 00:12:05.389
that and say, who is this government
to say that this is our rights?

00:12:05.389 --> 00:12:06.860
These are God given rights.

00:12:06.860 --> 00:12:08.440
These are inalienable rights.

00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:12.189
So I've heard people argue
that on both different sides.

00:12:12.190 --> 00:12:13.450
Do you have thoughts on that?

00:12:14.079 --> 00:12:14.329
Ian Sim: Yeah.

00:12:14.329 --> 00:12:14.680
I mean,

00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:21.140
everyone wants the rights to go their way.

00:12:22.470 --> 00:12:24.799
So is there a hierarchy of rights?

00:12:26.345 --> 00:12:26.954
I think so.

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Travis Bader: Okay.

00:12:27.995 --> 00:12:32.415
Ian Sim: I think I've maybe alluded
to what I think is the right of all

00:12:32.415 --> 00:12:36.735
rights, which is the right to be
safe, section seven of the charter,

00:12:37.365 --> 00:12:39.845
everyone has the right to life,
liberty, and security of person.

00:12:41.395 --> 00:12:43.965
I don't know what order all
your other rights come in.

00:12:45.355 --> 00:12:49.495
I'm just pretty sure that section
seven is at the top of the list.

00:12:50.085 --> 00:12:53.505
It's numbered number seven,
but again, if you're not safe,

00:12:53.615 --> 00:12:55.625
what good are your rights?

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Travis Bader: And I'll, I'll read it
because I, I printed it out here, so

00:12:59.595 --> 00:13:03.385
I'm somewhat familiar, but it says
everyone, everyone has the right to

00:13:03.385 --> 00:13:07.785
life, liberty, and security of the
person and the right not to be deprived

00:13:07.785 --> 00:13:11.814
thereof, except in accordance with
the principles of fundamental justice.

00:13:12.505 --> 00:13:14.764
So it's not an unfettered right.

00:13:15.345 --> 00:13:18.775
They have some constraints
around there, which they call the

00:13:18.775 --> 00:13:20.895
principles of fundamental justice.

00:13:21.175 --> 00:13:25.784
And I'm sure a lawyer would be
able to opine further on that,

00:13:25.785 --> 00:13:27.314
but it seems somewhat nebulous.

00:13:27.454 --> 00:13:27.554
I

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Ian Sim: mean, was it true, uh, Winston
Churchill that said, you know, democracy

00:13:33.785 --> 00:13:38.464
is the worst political system we have
in the world, except for all the others.

00:13:39.285 --> 00:13:41.305
So it's imperfect.

00:13:42.295 --> 00:13:54.464
Um, Um, you know, I'm, uh, I'm, uh, uh,
perfectly imperfect human being, uh,

00:13:54.915 --> 00:13:58.785
somewhat damaged by 25 years in policing.

00:13:58.785 --> 00:13:59.055
Right.

00:14:01.984 --> 00:14:04.925
I got yelled at a lot on
rec beach during COVID.

00:14:05.354 --> 00:14:10.075
I get yelled at occasionally
when I presented classes, um,

00:14:11.095 --> 00:14:12.785
and I'm like, okay, you're angry.

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I get it.

00:14:13.855 --> 00:14:14.675
It's university.

00:14:14.785 --> 00:14:15.704
This is nothing new.

00:14:16.615 --> 00:14:17.244
What are you angry at?

00:14:17.494 --> 00:14:19.145
The past, the present, the future.

00:14:19.145 --> 00:14:19.204
Yeah.

00:14:20.525 --> 00:14:22.194
Oh, you just want to yell
and that's okay, too.

00:14:23.175 --> 00:14:23.615
I'm good.

00:14:23.945 --> 00:14:24.245
Right.

00:14:24.605 --> 00:14:28.765
Um, and that was mostly
American and Canadian kids.

00:14:28.795 --> 00:14:33.435
Um, from what I could tell,
um, our international visitors

00:14:33.555 --> 00:14:34.935
and the international students

00:14:37.295 --> 00:14:38.775
thought we were rock stars.

00:14:39.375 --> 00:14:41.675
We're down there doing
foot patrols on the beach.

00:14:41.724 --> 00:14:45.844
Um, they're like, you don't
talk, talk to the cops at home.

00:14:46.884 --> 00:14:47.954
They will steal from you.

00:14:48.905 --> 00:14:50.424
They will rape you.

00:14:50.424 --> 00:14:51.974
They will kill you, all the above.

00:14:52.594 --> 00:14:57.615
Um, and even the Irish kids, they're
not, they're not going to steal

00:14:57.615 --> 00:15:00.155
their stuff, get raped or killed
by the cops for the most part.

00:15:01.435 --> 00:15:03.564
But they're like, yeah, you just,
you don't talk to those guys.

00:15:05.470 --> 00:15:09.730
That's a sad commentary coming
from, uh, what we'd think is a, is,

00:15:09.760 --> 00:15:11.370
well, what is a Western democracy?

00:15:11.390 --> 00:15:12.910
The brain, you guys are amazing.

00:15:13.769 --> 00:15:17.360
You're friendly, you're
funny, you're professional.

00:15:17.689 --> 00:15:21.269
Um, and you know, before you know
what, it's, it's, it's photo time.

00:15:21.629 --> 00:15:25.790
Um, and, and never really give
it much thought until I started

00:15:25.790 --> 00:15:27.979
working at UBC and on Rick Beach.

00:15:28.250 --> 00:15:28.339
Right?

00:15:28.339 --> 00:15:33.030
So I I perhaps we just take
for granted what we have.

00:15:33.319 --> 00:15:38.000
Don't give it much thought as to
how we got here, where it came from.

00:15:38.380 --> 00:15:39.910
Um, yeah, the rights.

00:15:41.819 --> 00:15:43.770
I mean, who gives us,
who gives us our rights?

00:15:44.589 --> 00:15:46.000
Does God gives us our rights?

00:15:46.510 --> 00:15:47.619
I don't know which God, who's God,

00:15:47.680 --> 00:15:47.950
Travis Bader: right?

00:15:47.980 --> 00:15:49.115
Who's God are we talking about now?

00:15:49.115 --> 00:15:49.116
Um,

00:15:50.020 --> 00:15:52.699
Ian Sim: is it, uh, Trudeau Sr.

00:15:53.089 --> 00:15:53.720
That gave 'em to us?

00:15:54.395 --> 00:15:59.335
And, and brought them over, uh, in 82,
um, is, is it, uh, the current government?

00:15:59.345 --> 00:16:02.755
Well, no, it's, it's,
it's none of the above.

00:16:03.444 --> 00:16:09.375
Um, your rights are your human
rights, which are by definition,

00:16:09.395 --> 00:16:14.645
minority rights are yours by virtue
of being born into the human race.

00:16:14.955 --> 00:16:16.225
Travis Bader: What do you
mean by minority rights?

00:16:18.445 --> 00:16:19.235
Ian Sim: So

00:16:21.295 --> 00:16:22.405
your human rights.

00:16:23.500 --> 00:16:26.579
Are a limitation on
the power of the state.

00:16:28.949 --> 00:16:28.990
Travis Bader: It

00:16:28.990 --> 00:16:31.280
Ian Sim: tells the state
what they can not do.

00:16:31.540 --> 00:16:32.120
Travis Bader: Right.

00:16:32.400 --> 00:16:40.069
Ian Sim: And many of our rights,
um, have been, um, developed

00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:43.219
and explored by minorities.

00:16:43.805 --> 00:16:48.055
In our community and by minorities,
I don't mean like criminal law.

00:16:48.115 --> 00:16:56.044
Um, a lot of our criminal law, uh,
has, has been developed by people

00:16:56.045 --> 00:17:00.335
being charged criminally and, and,
and claiming a charter breach, uh,

00:17:00.365 --> 00:17:01.965
search and seizure, for example.

00:17:02.564 --> 00:17:04.804
And, um, all your rights around a lawyer.

00:17:05.085 --> 00:17:05.474
Travis Bader: Right.

00:17:05.554 --> 00:17:10.754
Ian Sim: Um, so a lot of our rights,
uh, are stab, not established, but, but

00:17:10.754 --> 00:17:14.905
explored and developed further fine tuned.

00:17:15.255 --> 00:17:15.525
Sure.

00:17:15.554 --> 00:17:15.795
Okay.

00:17:15.795 --> 00:17:15.925
Thank you.

00:17:17.535 --> 00:17:20.985
By criminals who, or people were
charged with criminal offenses.

00:17:21.034 --> 00:17:21.425
Travis Bader: Right.

00:17:21.474 --> 00:17:25.315
Ian Sim: So, and, and they are
minority in, in most societies.

00:17:25.905 --> 00:17:28.615
Um, other ones, LGBTQ.

00:17:29.320 --> 00:17:37.880
Plus community, um, a minority, but
you know, they are fighting for what

00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:39.949
they perceive to be their rights.

00:17:40.010 --> 00:17:40.310
Travis Bader: Yes.

00:17:40.320 --> 00:17:45.659
Ian Sim: So everyone in Canada can fight
for what they perceive to be their rights.

00:17:45.679 --> 00:17:48.109
Now, if it's in the charter, helpful.

00:17:48.939 --> 00:17:51.039
It's in the Canadian
bill of rights, helpful.

00:17:51.609 --> 00:17:53.559
It's in the UN declaration
of human rights.

00:17:53.649 --> 00:17:54.209
Helpful.

00:17:55.205 --> 00:18:03.135
Um, it might be in the Bible, helpful if
other Western democracies have similar

00:18:03.135 --> 00:18:08.294
rights, um, Supreme court judges in
Canada will look at similar systems.

00:18:08.395 --> 00:18:08.805
Travis Bader: Sure.

00:18:09.545 --> 00:18:13.395
Ian Sim: Um, including the United
States, Britain, for sure, um,

00:18:13.395 --> 00:18:16.824
where our common law comes from,
where American law comes from.

00:18:17.410 --> 00:18:21.870
Um, so, but at the end of the
day, the Supreme Court can say,

00:18:23.570 --> 00:18:29.440
yes, section seven of the charter
is the Supreme law of the land.

00:18:29.800 --> 00:18:34.259
We agree it's the right of all rights
without which, you know, all your

00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:35.460
rights, the rights are meaningless.

00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:44.550
And this young lady, the guide, the guide,
Um, who got her authorization to carry

00:18:44.830 --> 00:18:52.150
for, um, to protect life in wilderness
areas, a government could come down

00:18:52.150 --> 00:18:54.380
the road and say, none, you're done.

00:18:54.910 --> 00:18:59.430
And, and with the recent handgun
freeze, whatever that means exactly.

00:18:59.889 --> 00:19:00.870
Um, so.

00:19:00.990 --> 00:19:06.800
A new government could come in, they could
take that away, they could expand on it.

00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.370
At the end of the day, the Supreme
Court could say, they could say, Travis,

00:19:11.560 --> 00:19:18.329
section seven of the charter states
security of person, you have the right

00:19:19.930 --> 00:19:26.290
to, uh, an authorization to carry, a
civilian authorization to carry anywhere

00:19:26.290 --> 00:19:28.460
in Canada, including urban areas.

00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:35.670
And the government of the day could
go Notwithstanding clause, and

00:19:35.670 --> 00:19:37.379
it's done, crushed for five years.

00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:37.910
Right.

00:19:38.080 --> 00:19:40.210
So the system is not perfect.

00:19:41.090 --> 00:19:41.560
Rights,

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.109
some people think rights are kind
of airy fairy left wing stuff.

00:19:49.179 --> 00:19:52.389
Um, they're for everyone.

00:19:53.269 --> 00:19:58.629
Um, if you can articulate to a judge
that there's been a charter breach or,

00:19:58.629 --> 00:20:02.229
or an egregious breach of your rights
under the charter, um, you may get your

00:20:02.229 --> 00:20:03.489
hearing in front of the Supreme court.

00:20:04.220 --> 00:20:06.690
Not you personally, I mean, it'll
go to Supreme court, perhaps.

00:20:08.189 --> 00:20:13.980
So rights work for everyone, but they
don't work all the time for everything.

00:20:14.620 --> 00:20:20.279
Um, I, I talked to some of the,
my friends in Northern Arizona in

00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:22.229
and around Gunset Ranch, right?

00:20:22.649 --> 00:20:25.550
If you had one right to choose from,

00:20:27.700 --> 00:20:30.920
would it be your right to
carry second amendment,

00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:36.310
uh, or a woman's right to choose?

00:20:38.579 --> 00:20:39.159
Pick one.

00:20:39.320 --> 00:20:40.239
You get one.

00:20:40.955 --> 00:20:42.455
Um, what's more important to you?

00:20:43.415 --> 00:20:49.755
Um, so a lot of people will
claim they have rights.

00:20:50.445 --> 00:20:54.305
Um, sometimes we disagree on
what those rights actually mean.

00:20:55.905 --> 00:21:00.465
But if you convince a judge
and then the Supreme court

00:21:00.465 --> 00:21:03.495
justices, you've got your rights.

00:21:04.175 --> 00:21:05.995
And so

00:21:08.935 --> 00:21:11.864
let's say armored car guards, let's
say we were going to expand armored

00:21:11.864 --> 00:21:15.844
car guards in Canada by 10, 000
guards in the next three years.

00:21:17.144 --> 00:21:22.685
Um, it wouldn't make the news and they
carry a handgun openly to protect life.

00:21:22.885 --> 00:21:23.245
Right.

00:21:23.315 --> 00:21:24.004
It wouldn't make news.

00:21:24.034 --> 00:21:27.885
It, even if you phone the news station,
they'd be like, why is that news?

00:21:29.690 --> 00:21:34.270
If we, if someone came out, a government,
uh, provincial or federal said,

00:21:34.380 --> 00:21:42.349
we're going to expand, um, the right
authorization to carry for civilians.

00:21:43.375 --> 00:21:48.864
By 10, 000 people in the next
three years, that would be news.

00:21:49.005 --> 00:21:50.445
Travis Bader: That would be everywhere.

00:21:51.235 --> 00:21:54.115
What one thing that goes through my
head and actually there's a bunch of

00:21:54.115 --> 00:21:59.014
things going through my head, but, uh,
I should probably have preempted all

00:21:59.015 --> 00:22:03.404
of this with this isn't legal advice
and we're not lawyers and we don't

00:22:03.465 --> 00:22:05.075
speak for anybody other than ourselves.

00:22:05.075 --> 00:22:08.355
These are our opinions that we're
going to be going through here.

00:22:08.355 --> 00:22:13.975
So that kind of puts a big blanket
over top of the conversation of,

00:22:14.005 --> 00:22:15.824
uh, of protection for everybody.

00:22:17.235 --> 00:22:18.675
Ian Sim: Yes, obviously we're not lawyers.

00:22:19.195 --> 00:22:24.725
Um, but you'll see people in the
Supreme Court of Canada, lawyers on

00:22:24.725 --> 00:22:31.435
both sides, arguing completely different
arguments, like polar opposite.

00:22:32.235 --> 00:22:35.994
You know, if anyone thinks they can
predict how a Supreme Court case is

00:22:35.995 --> 00:22:37.209
going to go, I mean, I don't know.

00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:38.450
Best of luck.

00:22:38.450 --> 00:22:38.740
Travis Bader: Right.

00:22:38.940 --> 00:22:39.980
Um, so.

00:22:40.370 --> 00:22:44.110
Friend of mine is a, uh,
a very well accomplished

00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:46.150
lawyer, extremely intelligent.

00:22:46.190 --> 00:22:49.960
And he says, you've, you've got the
perfect case and you go to Supreme court

00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:54.980
and you've got everything a hundred
percent, uh, perfect on your side.

00:22:55.249 --> 00:22:57.020
You've got about 70, 30 chance.

00:22:57.490 --> 00:23:00.740
Ian Sim: And even if you win
notwithstanding clause, Federal

00:23:00.740 --> 00:23:03.250
government can go, yeah, sorry, too bad.

00:23:03.270 --> 00:23:03.560
So

00:23:06.980 --> 00:23:07.920
it's imperfect.

00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:12.379
It's more perfect than many systems
around the world, but it's not perfect.

00:23:12.399 --> 00:23:17.570
And, and rights are like, so,
you know, you will get people

00:23:17.570 --> 00:23:20.540
on both sides arguing that, um.

00:23:21.470 --> 00:23:24.820
Although armoured car guards
carry a handgun all day long

00:23:24.830 --> 00:23:26.060
around Canada, no one cares.

00:23:26.060 --> 00:23:27.080
No one gives them a second look.

00:23:28.009 --> 00:23:30.459
You can't, or I can't carry

00:23:31.699 --> 00:23:32.419
Travis Bader: off shift.

00:23:34.020 --> 00:23:37.670
I think there's a really interesting
piece of this, which I'm sure we'll talk

00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:42.014
about in a little bit, but an armoured
car guard is not a peace officer.

00:23:42.274 --> 00:23:45.485
People see the uniform, they see
the gun, and maybe they got an

00:23:45.485 --> 00:23:48.985
armored car guard badge and they say,
well, this is a special person and

00:23:49.024 --> 00:23:54.205
armored car guard has the exact same
responsibilities as a private citizen

00:23:54.685 --> 00:23:56.285
when they're carrying that firearm.

00:23:56.305 --> 00:24:00.964
They just happened to be working in some
industry where their primary activity

00:24:00.964 --> 00:24:02.855
is a transport of cash or negotiables.

00:24:04.085 --> 00:24:07.675
And they have a firearm there not
to protect the cash, no, not to

00:24:07.675 --> 00:24:11.375
protect any of the negotiables as
to protect their life or life of

00:24:11.375 --> 00:24:15.555
a third party from imminent danger
of death or give us bodily harm.

00:24:15.555 --> 00:24:16.064
And that's it.

00:24:16.074 --> 00:24:20.545
And as a private citizen, all of the
same rules that apply to an armored

00:24:20.545 --> 00:24:22.925
car guard apply to a private citizen.

00:24:23.164 --> 00:24:26.805
Ian Sim: So the standard to carry a
handgun today by a private citizen.

00:24:27.205 --> 00:24:32.495
In British Columbia is the, the security
legislation provincial, I believe

00:24:32.595 --> 00:24:32.615
Travis Bader: for

00:24:33.025 --> 00:24:33.885
Ian Sim: armoured car guards.

00:24:34.125 --> 00:24:34.645
Travis Bader: That's right.

00:24:34.965 --> 00:24:35.405
Ian Sim: That's it.

00:24:35.415 --> 00:24:40.494
So again, and, and Canadians or
British Columbians would have nothing

00:24:40.495 --> 00:24:43.944
to say if they said we're going to
increase armoured car guards by 5, 000.

00:24:43.945 --> 00:24:44.335
Mm hmm.

00:24:44.575 --> 00:24:49.220
Um, but again, It's illogical.

00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:51.830
A lot of the arguments and, and I get it.

00:24:53.040 --> 00:24:54.150
Emotion is a thing.

00:24:56.420 --> 00:24:58.540
Uh, anxiety is a thing.

00:24:59.769 --> 00:25:05.719
Um, people may believe in what
they're doing or promoting or saying,

00:25:06.220 --> 00:25:12.189
uh, good intentions, the whole bit,
but you know, does it stand kind of

00:25:12.189 --> 00:25:15.360
the, just kind of the logic test?

00:25:15.360 --> 00:25:15.929
Not really.

00:25:16.245 --> 00:25:21.965
Uh, in opposing a civilian ATC
and they go, Oh, America, south

00:25:21.965 --> 00:25:23.014
of the border, rah, rah, rah, rah.

00:25:23.245 --> 00:25:27.355
Well, the vast majority of
Canadians I've met don't

00:25:27.355 --> 00:25:29.055
understand Canadian firearms laws.

00:25:29.725 --> 00:25:34.404
They certainly don't understand, uh,
firearms laws in other countries or in

00:25:34.405 --> 00:25:37.304
48 different states south of the border.

00:25:38.384 --> 00:25:40.725
They have an opinion as many people do.

00:25:41.585 --> 00:25:44.975
Um, it can be like many
topics, an emotional one.

00:25:46.095 --> 00:25:49.405
Um, and again, I understand it.

00:25:49.415 --> 00:25:56.800
The, the, the, The mere thought of
violence, um, can be distressing

00:25:56.800 --> 00:26:01.040
to people, just the thought,
and they've, and perhaps they've

00:26:01.070 --> 00:26:02.780
never experienced violence.

00:26:04.149 --> 00:26:11.565
If you've experienced violence Um, as a
victim or on the other side, um, it can be

00:26:12.785 --> 00:26:17.265
traumatic, very emotional, very stressful.

00:26:17.295 --> 00:26:20.215
Um, so I, I get it.

00:26:20.285 --> 00:26:23.995
People get nervous when they
think about their own safety.

00:26:26.695 --> 00:26:33.365
It's understandable, but we should, we
shouldn't be using these cute one liners.

00:26:34.150 --> 00:26:41.330
Um, and, and, and we should help
people understand the true pros and

00:26:41.330 --> 00:26:46.110
the true cons of any legislation,
particularly public safety legislation.

00:26:46.350 --> 00:26:48.110
Misleading Canadians.

00:26:48.909 --> 00:26:53.270
About public safety legislation,
I have a problem with that.

00:26:53.840 --> 00:26:58.240
I've spent my whole career and much
of my life in service to my community,

00:26:58.470 --> 00:27:01.370
particularly around community safety.

00:27:03.290 --> 00:27:06.750
Travis Bader: I'm sure you've heard
the, uh, the expression when seconds

00:27:06.750 --> 00:27:09.120
count, the police are only minutes away.

00:27:10.080 --> 00:27:15.690
And as a peace officer protecting
others, you can't be there

00:27:15.840 --> 00:27:17.540
all the time for everybody.

00:27:17.930 --> 00:27:24.019
And the one thing that I see that
has taken a massive hit over the

00:27:24.019 --> 00:27:29.080
years seems to be the individual's
sense of personal agency.

00:27:29.620 --> 00:27:33.070
There seems to be an abrogation,
if I'm even using that word

00:27:33.410 --> 00:27:38.220
correctly to abrogate control or
responsibility to a third party.

00:27:38.709 --> 00:27:39.339
And.

00:27:39.790 --> 00:27:45.390
The way that messages from media
or government agencies will

00:27:45.430 --> 00:27:47.460
communicate that is no, no, no.

00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:48.340
You hang tight.

00:27:48.379 --> 00:27:49.110
We'll help you.

00:27:49.120 --> 00:27:49.760
No, no, no.

00:27:49.790 --> 00:27:52.830
You don't, you don't
take care of yourself.

00:27:52.840 --> 00:27:54.770
We've got a crew that's specially trained.

00:27:54.770 --> 00:27:58.349
That'll be there to take care of you,
which is all well and good because there's

00:27:58.349 --> 00:27:59.930
people out there that need taken care of.

00:27:59.930 --> 00:28:04.340
And there's people out there that might
not be the best advocate for themselves,

00:28:04.379 --> 00:28:11.730
but to Push that so far to the point
where people feel they don't have that

00:28:11.730 --> 00:28:17.520
personal agency, where they can actually
step up and do something positive to

00:28:17.520 --> 00:28:22.849
affect their life or their life of those
they love that are around them, I think

00:28:22.849 --> 00:28:26.279
is doing people a massive disservice,
not just at the individual level,

00:28:26.280 --> 00:28:28.129
but at the societal level everywhere.

00:28:31.569 --> 00:28:31.989
Ian Sim: Yeah.

00:28:32.029 --> 00:28:32.499
We've.

00:28:33.105 --> 00:28:39.165
Again, we've had it so good in Canada
for so long, and we still have it good,

00:28:39.165 --> 00:28:41.155
although things are changing quickly.

00:28:45.875 --> 00:28:47.545
I'm not going to be there.

00:28:48.294 --> 00:28:49.435
I'm not a first responder.

00:28:49.695 --> 00:28:50.735
I don't like the term.

00:28:51.225 --> 00:28:52.695
I've never liked the term.

00:28:54.605 --> 00:28:58.185
I won't be there probably
when you need me.

00:28:59.085 --> 00:29:06.985
Initially, if someone is going to
shoot up a school, a street, a coffee

00:29:06.985 --> 00:29:14.404
shop, um, and I'm sitting there in
uniform, um, do my daily hydrational

00:29:14.405 --> 00:29:18.095
activities, uh, they're going to shoot
me first and then get on with it.

00:29:18.195 --> 00:29:18.505
Travis Bader: Hmm.

00:29:19.230 --> 00:29:23.519
Ian Sim: Or they're going to sit and
they're going to wait till we leave

00:29:24.490 --> 00:29:25.500
and they're going to get on with it.

00:29:26.889 --> 00:29:28.770
It might come back another
day if they're short for time.

00:29:28.810 --> 00:29:30.350
I don't know, but

00:29:32.490 --> 00:29:34.960
we're the second or the third
of the fourth responders.

00:29:36.250 --> 00:29:41.080
Um, you and anyone around you,
you're the first responder.

00:29:41.090 --> 00:29:42.949
You are your own first responder.

00:29:43.370 --> 00:29:45.429
Now I've been seeing that for a long time.

00:29:46.295 --> 00:29:47.415
No one gives it much thought.

00:29:48.985 --> 00:29:57.795
Um, if you survive the initial incident,
call us and we'll come running.

00:29:57.805 --> 00:29:59.755
Like we will move heaven and earth.

00:30:00.520 --> 00:30:06.070
To get to a crisis, uh, accident, violent.

00:30:06.990 --> 00:30:11.530
We will move heaven and earth
to get there, but we won't be

00:30:11.530 --> 00:30:13.250
there in time for everyone.

00:30:14.530 --> 00:30:15.110
We can't.

00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:20.020
Um, you know, it says, um,

00:30:22.520 --> 00:30:26.549
there's, they're saying, you
know, you don't need guns

00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:29.409
because, um, we have police

00:30:31.589 --> 00:30:38.279
and, and we'll then, I guess you
don't need fire extinguishers

00:30:38.299 --> 00:30:39.559
because we have firefighters.

00:30:39.589 --> 00:30:39.709
Right.

00:30:40.195 --> 00:30:42.865
And it's, I don't say it to be cute.

00:30:44.275 --> 00:30:50.005
It's, it's just, it seems to
be pure, simple, clear logic.

00:30:50.065 --> 00:30:54.065
Um, we get there after the fact,

00:30:56.335 --> 00:31:03.094
and if you've called us, we'll do the best
we can, but we won't be there in time.

00:31:03.305 --> 00:31:03.595
You're,

00:31:05.875 --> 00:31:12.065
you're on your own for a period
of time, and ideally that's

00:31:12.065 --> 00:31:13.835
a very short period of time.

00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:16.840
But it might be a bit longer than that.

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:21.590
Travis Bader: The one thing that I see
from my perspective and what's been

00:31:21.590 --> 00:31:28.790
communicated to me by, by past students
is this overwhelming fear, fear of getting

00:31:28.790 --> 00:31:33.429
in trouble, fear of, uh, what could
happen if they stood up for themselves.

00:31:33.430 --> 00:31:38.880
And I, I've always looked
at that as an Odd fear.

00:31:39.760 --> 00:31:42.260
I mean, we can stick our head
in the sand and pretend that

00:31:42.260 --> 00:31:43.100
nothing's going to happen.

00:31:43.100 --> 00:31:46.740
And statistically in the past, we
got it pretty good here in Canada.

00:31:46.740 --> 00:31:47.060
Right.

00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:56.369
But at least be armed with the information
so that if something went sideways, we

00:31:57.049 --> 00:32:01.730
have an idea as to what our constraints
are, how we can act, what we can do to

00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:07.940
be able to protect ourselves and protect
our loved ones and do so in a way where

00:32:07.940 --> 00:32:10.520
we're not losing our house afterwards.

00:32:13.235 --> 00:32:17.675
Ian Sim: So the, um, to protect
life is in the criminal code,

00:32:18.225 --> 00:32:20.275
always has been, always will be.

00:32:21.105 --> 00:32:28.975
Um, you can use as much force as necessary
to protect, uh, you and those under your

00:32:28.975 --> 00:32:30.944
care from death or grievous bodily harm.

00:32:31.695 --> 00:32:35.054
So first place to start's
the criminal code.

00:32:35.834 --> 00:32:37.425
It, it, it's not gone away.

00:32:37.575 --> 00:32:41.525
You can defend yourself and
your family and strangers.

00:32:42.475 --> 00:32:42.985
Um.

00:32:44.905 --> 00:32:46.795
Travis Bader: That would be the
third party that they talk about.

00:32:46.805 --> 00:32:46.925
The

00:32:46.925 --> 00:32:47.685
Ian Sim: third party.

00:32:47.795 --> 00:32:49.435
Um, so.

00:32:50.275 --> 00:32:51.955
Again, it, it, it's a thing.

00:32:52.045 --> 00:32:52.345
Travis Bader: Mm-Hmm.

00:32:52.525 --> 00:32:53.575
Ian Sim: It's codified.

00:32:53.575 --> 00:32:54.865
It's, it's in the law.

00:32:54.925 --> 00:32:55.255
Travis Bader: Mm-Hmm.

00:32:55.285 --> 00:32:56.815
Ian Sim: It's not going away.

00:32:56.875 --> 00:32:58.015
It never has.

00:32:58.955 --> 00:33:01.265
Uh, and, and again, remember,

00:33:03.355 --> 00:33:06.795
you're on your own for a little bit.

00:33:07.785 --> 00:33:12.485
Um, for us to get there,
we have to get the call.

00:33:13.225 --> 00:33:13.645
So,

00:33:16.185 --> 00:33:17.775
you know, we're what's,

00:33:21.095 --> 00:33:30.935
we're, we're, we're only a moment
away from, uh, catastrophe.

00:33:30.935 --> 00:33:33.125
Like we we're, we're, we're.

00:33:33.125 --> 00:33:33.485
We're.

00:33:35.150 --> 00:33:44.980
You know, seconds away from a switch or
a trigger, a knife, a car, um, and for

00:33:44.980 --> 00:33:46.619
us to get there, we need to get the call.

00:33:48.095 --> 00:33:52.325
So it's murder in progress

00:33:55.225 --> 00:33:58.735
and we might not know what's
happening until we get the call.

00:34:00.055 --> 00:34:05.925
So Virginia Tech, a massacre, I think
what 31 dead, nine minutes flat.

00:34:06.705 --> 00:34:09.964
Sandy Hook, 28 dead, three
to four minutes flat.

00:34:11.865 --> 00:34:16.695
We won't be there in time
because we have to get the call.

00:34:16.775 --> 00:34:19.665
So there's a number of things
that have to happen and that do

00:34:19.665 --> 00:34:21.225
happen before we get that call.

00:34:22.050 --> 00:34:23.810
And I kind of call it the death gap.

00:34:23.940 --> 00:34:25.150
I haven't given it too much thought.

00:34:25.380 --> 00:34:28.920
Well, I've given it a lot of thought,
but just, I call it the death gap because

00:34:30.850 --> 00:34:34.210
the incident starts, people are dying

00:34:36.580 --> 00:34:39.599
and you can do a lot of damage in
a very short period of time, as

00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:41.929
we've seen, uh, over the years.

00:34:42.749 --> 00:34:44.850
I mean, I was, I was
studying active shooters.

00:34:45.875 --> 00:34:48.155
Before the term active shooter existed.

00:34:48.245 --> 00:34:48.395
Travis Bader: Right.

00:34:49.055 --> 00:34:49.535
Um,

00:34:49.595 --> 00:34:50.315
Ian Sim: I don't know why.

00:34:50.495 --> 00:34:53.005
I'm just, my dad worked
for the federal government.

00:34:53.005 --> 00:34:53.635
Fire protection.

00:34:53.635 --> 00:34:54.355
Industrial safety.

00:34:54.355 --> 00:34:56.275
It was always about safety,
safety, safety, safety.

00:34:56.275 --> 00:34:57.955
So I just grew up safety.

00:34:57.955 --> 00:34:58.735
Safety, safety.

00:34:58.825 --> 00:34:59.005
Yep.

00:34:59.855 --> 00:35:03.015
Um, young boy interested in guns.

00:35:03.015 --> 00:35:04.305
Neat, cool cops.

00:35:04.365 --> 00:35:05.955
So it's just a thing I followed, but.

00:35:08.145 --> 00:35:11.775
The incident starts,
we don't know about it.

00:35:12.495 --> 00:35:12.775
Right.

00:35:12.965 --> 00:35:14.605
People are scrambling for their lives.

00:35:14.625 --> 00:35:15.605
People are dying.

00:35:15.765 --> 00:35:19.085
Um, eventually calls come in,
I don't know, 30 seconds, a

00:35:19.085 --> 00:35:20.254
minute, maybe two minutes.

00:35:20.275 --> 00:35:20.755
Depends.

00:35:21.105 --> 00:35:25.185
Um, frantic calls, right?

00:35:25.475 --> 00:35:30.564
Uh, uh, the dispatchers are trying
to find out what's happening,

00:35:30.575 --> 00:35:33.991
where you are, what's your
address, what building are you in?

00:35:33.991 --> 00:35:36.522
They may or may not know those answers.

00:35:36.522 --> 00:35:37.154
Mm hmm.

00:35:39.175 --> 00:35:44.805
Um, we're going to, we're going
to start getting a dispatch, you

00:35:44.805 --> 00:35:50.025
know, shots fired somewhere, or it
could be another tool that they use.

00:35:50.855 --> 00:35:55.214
Um, and, and when we have an idea
of a location, roughly, we're going

00:35:55.215 --> 00:35:57.884
to start going, but we got to pull
out, we got to get dispatchers

00:35:57.895 --> 00:35:59.154
have to dispatch us the call.

00:35:59.945 --> 00:36:05.295
We have to pull over in the road,
uh, throw on our, our hard plates,

00:36:05.335 --> 00:36:07.015
uh, get our gear ready quickly.

00:36:08.125 --> 00:36:10.415
Then we got to fight our way,
maybe through rush hour traffic

00:36:10.425 --> 00:36:13.335
to get to a general location.

00:36:13.415 --> 00:36:13.745
Travis Bader: Hmm.

00:36:13.945 --> 00:36:19.415
Ian Sim: And if it's, um, if it's a
university or college, huge campus,

00:36:20.135 --> 00:36:24.165
a rabbit's warren, um, do students
even know what building they're in?

00:36:24.725 --> 00:36:25.795
Do they know what room?

00:36:26.905 --> 00:36:27.894
And it can happen anywhere.

00:36:27.894 --> 00:36:31.674
So, I mean, again, we'll move
heaven and earth to get there, but

00:36:31.684 --> 00:36:34.924
there's a line for us to get there.

00:36:35.415 --> 00:36:43.440
How do we, as with traditional police
emergency response, Get there quicker.

00:36:43.640 --> 00:36:49.680
And I don't know that we can, partly
because of the gap, partly because of

00:36:49.680 --> 00:36:53.450
our resourcing levels, partly because
of the time that it's going to take us

00:36:53.450 --> 00:36:55.390
to get there through rush hour traffic.

00:36:58.290 --> 00:37:05.470
So is that good enough or is there some
way we can address and reduce that gap,

00:37:07.549 --> 00:37:10.390
but uniform policing aren't
going to be the ones to do that.

00:37:14.050 --> 00:37:15.270
Travis Bader: It's that education piece.

00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:16.620
Ian Sim: It's, it's a scary thought,

00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:17.290
Travis Bader: right?

00:37:17.340 --> 00:37:17.570
Ian Sim: Right.

00:37:17.740 --> 00:37:20.665
Like, I mean, I, I, I,
Um, this is my profession.

00:37:20.735 --> 00:37:25.875
I spent my whole life, um, with
community, doing community safety work.

00:37:25.925 --> 00:37:26.245
Right.

00:37:26.315 --> 00:37:29.894
Um, and then I, I, I presented classes.

00:37:29.895 --> 00:37:34.345
I teach a little bit, I've never
stopped reading for 45 years.

00:37:34.395 --> 00:37:38.744
Um, I've been trained in, you
know, active shooter, IR, indoor,

00:37:38.795 --> 00:37:40.825
outdoor, I'm a firearms instructor.

00:37:40.825 --> 00:37:44.725
I was shooting down at, Jeff
Cooper's, uh, Colonel Cooper's

00:37:44.795 --> 00:37:46.335
gun sit ranch in the eighties.

00:37:46.375 --> 00:37:49.345
Um, I kind of live and breathe this.

00:37:50.135 --> 00:37:56.515
Um, like I said, uh, Seb and, and, and
other coworkers, you know, we've got a lot

00:37:56.515 --> 00:37:59.624
of different people all working towards.

00:38:00.250 --> 00:38:03.110
Community safety or, or what
some might term public safety.

00:38:03.580 --> 00:38:06.440
And we all contribute
in, in different ways.

00:38:06.460 --> 00:38:11.220
But at the end of the day, when
everything has failed, deterrence

00:38:11.220 --> 00:38:17.200
didn't work, detection didn't
work, um, disruption didn't work.

00:38:17.869 --> 00:38:18.879
And these

00:38:21.659 --> 00:38:22.580
things will fail.

00:38:22.889 --> 00:38:24.220
We will never get them all.

00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:27.110
Um, what now?

00:38:27.980 --> 00:38:29.910
So it's kind of a scary
thought for the public.

00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:30.810
They're like, Oh crap.

00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:35.500
Um, we are kind of on our own
now, thankfully, the chances of

00:38:35.510 --> 00:38:38.890
these things happening, even in
the states are statistically low

00:38:40.940 --> 00:38:45.280
and, and some will argue that, well,
we can't have you carrying a handgun.

00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:48.550
Uh, I can't even carry my
service pistol off shift.

00:38:49.715 --> 00:38:53.385
I'm fully trained with specialty courses.

00:38:53.635 --> 00:38:58.185
Travis Bader: You can, they have a,
they have from, no, I'm no lawyer, but

00:38:58.205 --> 00:39:03.325
if you get permission from a supervisor
has always been in there, I don't know

00:39:03.325 --> 00:39:08.230
what makes, let's say your supervisor,
More important than somebody else's

00:39:08.230 --> 00:39:11.720
supervisor to say that you could protect
your life, but somebody else can't.

00:39:11.970 --> 00:39:17.320
That has always, uh, struck me as
something that was included to help get

00:39:17.330 --> 00:39:22.560
law enforcement support for some of the,
um, some of the bills and some of the laws

00:39:22.570 --> 00:39:24.179
that we're trying to be pushed through.

00:39:26.780 --> 00:39:30.649
Ian Sim: So, um, there are police
officers that carry off shift.

00:39:30.729 --> 00:39:31.069
Travis Bader: Sure.

00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:35.530
Ian Sim: Um, Some with
permission, some without.

00:39:36.090 --> 00:39:39.820
Travis Bader: The old saying, I'd rather
be judged by 12 and carried by six, right?

00:39:41.270 --> 00:39:45.059
Ian Sim: But it's, it's too bad that
the most professional people that

00:39:45.059 --> 00:39:50.120
you call to try and save your life,
the lives of your family, your kids,

00:39:50.219 --> 00:39:57.750
people around you, um, could get into
trouble, uh, professionally and possibly

00:39:57.750 --> 00:39:59.930
legally, uh, for carrying off shift.

00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:04.960
Uh, some carry, Um, because they're
on call, um, a lot of, uh, police

00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:07.430
officers take their, uh, service
pistols home because they're doing

00:40:07.430 --> 00:40:09.350
overtime on nights off, days off.

00:40:10.180 --> 00:40:14.200
Um, some put it in the
lock box and carry it home.

00:40:14.490 --> 00:40:18.139
Some, um, leave overtime
shifts or go to overtime shifts

00:40:18.150 --> 00:40:20.240
wearing their uniform armed.

00:40:21.809 --> 00:40:29.480
Um, but generally, um, you know, you'll
be hauled up in front of the boss and,

00:40:29.510 --> 00:40:31.509
and potentially phone a, uh, face a cop.

00:40:32.010 --> 00:40:34.310
Code of conduct investigation.

00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:36.070
If you're caught carrying off
shift now, how are you going to

00:40:36.070 --> 00:40:37.640
get caught carrying off shift?

00:40:38.380 --> 00:40:39.504
Travis Bader: If you have to use it.

00:40:39.875 --> 00:40:40.145
Ian Sim: Okay.

00:40:40.145 --> 00:40:43.835
So if, if, if you're a rockstar and you,
and you use it well and you save lives,

00:40:44.095 --> 00:40:48.655
I'm quite sure the organization will,
um, will embrace you with open arms.

00:40:48.685 --> 00:40:49.025
Travis Bader: Right.

00:40:50.015 --> 00:40:52.454
Ian Sim: If you make a
mistake or get it wrong.

00:40:52.605 --> 00:40:52.965
Oh yeah.

00:40:53.745 --> 00:40:54.824
You're done now.

00:40:54.824 --> 00:40:58.795
And again, I should, I should
say, uh, um, I am not speaking.

00:40:59.105 --> 00:41:06.285
On behalf of the RCMP, I am here as a
private citizen who's, you know, most of

00:41:06.285 --> 00:41:11.115
his life has been in and around public
safety, community safety, personal safety.

00:41:11.155 --> 00:41:11.905
They're all different.

00:41:12.915 --> 00:41:15.025
So yeah, I'm not speaking on
behalf of the organization.

00:41:15.315 --> 00:41:27.685
This is Ian's opinion, um, but based
on 45 plus years of, of, um, academic

00:41:27.685 --> 00:41:32.565
schooling, uh, and, Being in the
profession for a quarter of a century.

00:41:33.655 --> 00:41:38.595
Travis Bader: You know, my goal with
the podcast that I did with Rachel

00:41:38.635 --> 00:41:44.845
was to normalize a process for
something that is, is lawfully allowed.

00:41:45.395 --> 00:41:49.864
Uh, back in the day, uh, the national
firearms association, I believe was set

00:41:49.865 --> 00:41:52.275
up by Dave Tomlinson, Dave Tomlinson.

00:41:52.275 --> 00:41:53.495
He's passed on now, but.

00:41:54.465 --> 00:41:59.265
Um, he was a clever fellow and he created
a cheat sheet for getting an authorization

00:41:59.265 --> 00:42:01.185
to transport through your ATTs.

00:42:01.935 --> 00:42:07.425
And in the ATT form, we would say
things like from what times of the day

00:42:07.425 --> 00:42:08.934
will you be transporting a firearm?

00:42:08.934 --> 00:42:12.575
And, uh, what locations
will you transport it to?

00:42:12.575 --> 00:42:12.695
And.

00:42:13.780 --> 00:42:15.930
Uh, what days of the week
would you be transporting?

00:42:15.930 --> 00:42:18.120
And people would be like, well,
you know, I only go to the range on

00:42:18.120 --> 00:42:21.599
the weekends and they fill it out
and, and the range closes at six.

00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:23.429
And so I should be home by seven.

00:42:23.429 --> 00:42:24.769
And so that's the time they fill it out.

00:42:24.769 --> 00:42:30.549
And what they ended up doing was if their
car broke down or the things went late,

00:42:30.569 --> 00:42:33.670
they'd find themselves in contravention
of the law based on this form.

00:42:33.670 --> 00:42:38.780
So Dave says, um, 24 hours a day, right?

00:42:39.040 --> 00:42:40.610
That's when you're going
to be transporting it.

00:42:40.620 --> 00:42:43.490
You want it for the maximum length
of time, every day of the week,

00:42:43.710 --> 00:42:45.380
all approved gun clubs and ranges.

00:42:45.870 --> 00:42:49.680
And everybody started filling out their
forms in that way to the point where the

00:42:49.680 --> 00:42:54.400
firearms program started issuing ATTs
without anyone having to fill that out.

00:42:54.410 --> 00:42:55.249
It was just normal.

00:42:55.250 --> 00:42:56.459
Everyone knew, yep, here we go.

00:42:56.469 --> 00:42:56.909
We do it.

00:42:57.625 --> 00:43:02.025
And it, I don't know why that didn't click
on me sooner, but with the authorization

00:43:02.025 --> 00:43:07.565
to carry, uh, for wilderness and armored
car guards and people working, uh,

00:43:07.755 --> 00:43:09.775
myself personally instructing people.

00:43:09.775 --> 00:43:12.604
And then my school Silvercore
here instructing people who've got

00:43:12.604 --> 00:43:13.925
a hundred percent success rate.

00:43:14.434 --> 00:43:16.784
I thought if we template that.

00:43:16.915 --> 00:43:21.015
And everyone who's qualified and working
in these different areas, it makes

00:43:21.015 --> 00:43:25.285
it just as easy as those ATTs were
in the past for people to go through.

00:43:26.085 --> 00:43:33.194
And I think going one step further, having
conversations like this will normalize

00:43:33.385 --> 00:43:38.765
the concept of what the charter of
rights and freedoms section seven says

00:43:38.775 --> 00:43:43.945
that we can do in both the individual's
mind, as well as any authorizing body

00:43:43.955 --> 00:43:46.605
for let's say the RCMP firearms program.

00:43:47.085 --> 00:43:51.495
If they're issuing an ATC for
protection of personal life,

00:43:52.575 --> 00:43:55.795
which they have the ability to do.

00:43:55.925 --> 00:43:57.115
They have done in the past.

00:43:57.115 --> 00:44:00.225
And we've worked on, it was a gun store.

00:44:00.934 --> 00:44:05.365
And at the time there was threats
being made to different stores and

00:44:05.665 --> 00:44:09.505
organized crime was saying, look, we're
going to come in and do something.

00:44:09.505 --> 00:44:11.385
And so people were rightfully.

00:44:11.575 --> 00:44:12.475
Uh, concerned.

00:44:12.475 --> 00:44:14.465
I think there was one on the island.

00:44:14.485 --> 00:44:18.325
Uh, there was a, I think it was a
husband and wife that ended up, uh,

00:44:18.655 --> 00:44:20.534
getting shot at one of these gun stores.

00:44:20.535 --> 00:44:22.515
I'll have to find the exact details.

00:44:22.515 --> 00:44:23.914
One of the listeners will have it there.

00:44:24.845 --> 00:44:26.385
People are getting concerned about it.

00:44:26.475 --> 00:44:29.654
Uh, firearms program
says, okay, not a problem.

00:44:30.024 --> 00:44:32.744
You've met the training, you've
done the training, the same kind

00:44:32.744 --> 00:44:33.664
of stuff an armor car would do.

00:44:33.895 --> 00:44:35.125
Guard guard would do.

00:44:35.475 --> 00:44:40.035
Yes, there is a threat out there and
we've, we've been able to identify it.

00:44:40.035 --> 00:44:44.215
And, you know, at ABCD all the way
as it went through, but there is one

00:44:44.215 --> 00:44:49.814
caveat in there and it said, if police
protection is not adequate and the

00:44:49.814 --> 00:44:53.474
firearms program turned around and said
to these individuals who are applying.

00:44:54.235 --> 00:44:58.875
All you have to do is get a letter from
the chief of the police in your area.

00:44:58.885 --> 00:45:00.785
And this time it was the Surrey area.

00:45:00.785 --> 00:45:03.375
So get the chief of police out in Surrey.

00:45:03.585 --> 00:45:07.115
Just write us a letter saying
that police protection in Surrey

00:45:07.115 --> 00:45:08.615
is not adequate to protect you.

00:45:09.514 --> 00:45:10.434
And.

00:45:10.650 --> 00:45:14.790
Consequently, no police chief is going to
sign that no one's going to say we can't

00:45:14.790 --> 00:45:17.060
protect you and they weren't issued it.

00:45:17.110 --> 00:45:22.290
And I thought it was kind of a cheesy
way for this system to work around

00:45:22.330 --> 00:45:26.509
being able to, um, issue people
who are trained, qualified, had a

00:45:26.509 --> 00:45:32.460
threat, all the rest, um, by using
policy to, to try and circumvent it.

00:45:32.500 --> 00:45:38.400
And my hope is by talking about these
sorts of things, maybe it can normalize.

00:45:38.770 --> 00:45:44.300
The thought process of, okay, who are
we to say that somebody else can't

00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:48.019
protect their own life, particularly
if we've covered our butt, if we're

00:45:48.020 --> 00:45:52.280
issuing this, because they've met
all of these different requirements.

00:45:53.420 --> 00:45:55.710
Ian Sim: I don't think, excuse me.

00:45:55.710 --> 00:46:00.240
I don't think, uh, you'll see that
any day soon coming from Ottawa.

00:46:00.340 --> 00:46:00.610
Travis Bader: No.

00:46:00.730 --> 00:46:06.290
Ian Sim: However, um, if a province
wanted to get, I was going to say, get

00:46:06.290 --> 00:46:08.750
creative, But, but I'd even get creative.

00:46:08.860 --> 00:46:09.100
Yeah.

00:46:09.140 --> 00:46:09.570
Okay.

00:46:09.660 --> 00:46:13.620
Alberta, Saskatchewan,
Manitoba, uh, trifecta maybe.

00:46:13.670 --> 00:46:14.080
Um.

00:46:17.540 --> 00:46:18.350
They have options.

00:46:19.090 --> 00:46:28.300
They manage, uh, create, amend, uh,
provincial legislation for the security

00:46:28.300 --> 00:46:30.140
programs, which I believe are provincial.

00:46:30.260 --> 00:46:30.580
Yes.

00:46:30.600 --> 00:46:31.560
Like the armored car guards.

00:46:31.850 --> 00:46:36.599
So Alberta, Saskatchewan,
Manitoba, for example.

00:46:36.970 --> 00:46:45.410
Could get together, um, maybe just to
piss auto off, but, but more importantly,

00:46:45.410 --> 00:46:49.330
because again, you know, these cute one
liners are just kind of back and forth.

00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:49.690
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:53.499
Ian Sim: I'm interested in sound,
I'm interested in compassionate.

00:46:53.935 --> 00:46:57.485
Common sense, middle of the
road, public policy, that's it.

00:46:58.235 --> 00:47:02.925
And I've spent a good portion of my
life, um, trying to advocate both within

00:47:02.925 --> 00:47:09.464
my organization, other organizations,
um, the shooting community, um,

00:47:11.415 --> 00:47:16.854
for, for sound public safety policy.

00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:23.760
So Alberta, Alberta could choose, I
guess, to say we are going to issue

00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:31.309
under the securities program, um, ATCs
to not only our armored car guards,

00:47:32.809 --> 00:47:37.060
but to, um, qualified civilians.

00:47:37.730 --> 00:47:37.870
Travis Bader: And,

00:47:38.390 --> 00:47:44.000
Ian Sim: and what do we want our armored
car guards are, uh, and everyone else

00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:46.760
who carries guns in our society, because
there's quite a few peace officers.

00:47:47.340 --> 00:47:51.640
Peace officer status, um,
what do we require of them?

00:47:51.640 --> 00:47:55.310
Well, we want safe, competent,

00:47:57.650 --> 00:47:58.840
um, permit holders.

00:47:59.410 --> 00:48:00.320
Like it's not rocket science.

00:48:00.380 --> 00:48:00.630
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:48:00.780 --> 00:48:03.799
Ian Sim: Um, Alberta could do that.

00:48:03.890 --> 00:48:05.660
And there's probably nothing
the federal government can do.

00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:13.880
Now, Alberta might go, Hmm, you know,
and initially go, I'm not so sure.

00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:15.170
And that's fair.

00:48:15.170 --> 00:48:21.420
I mean, we get good policy
by, uh, exploring our options.

00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:21.789
Sure.

00:48:21.990 --> 00:48:22.400
So

00:48:24.439 --> 00:48:25.309
Alberta could do it.

00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:27.394
Um, or any, or, you know,

00:48:30.055 --> 00:48:33.635
Um, but before we go to civilian

00:48:34.585 --> 00:48:34.955
Travis Bader: ATC,

00:48:35.085 --> 00:48:39.515
Ian Sim: which, um, if implemented,
I guess, to the same standards of

00:48:39.525 --> 00:48:42.105
the armoured car guards, uh, it would
be slightly different because it's

00:48:42.125 --> 00:48:43.734
concealed carry as opposed to open carry.

00:48:44.944 --> 00:48:51.914
Um, why don't we look at the resources
that we already have in this country,

00:48:52.025 --> 00:48:55.265
which are serving peace officers.

00:48:56.995 --> 00:48:57.355
Travis Bader: Hmm.

00:48:57.975 --> 00:48:58.485
Ian Sim: Why?

00:48:58.545 --> 00:49:02.235
So, I, I've, I, I termed something I
came up with years ago, and I'm not

00:49:02.235 --> 00:49:03.285
the only one who's thought of this.

00:49:03.995 --> 00:49:08.075
Um, I call it the LLDA, the
last line of defense Act.

00:49:08.365 --> 00:49:08.905
Hmm.

00:49:09.235 --> 00:49:13.845
And that would allow serving and
honorably retired peace officers,

00:49:14.895 --> 00:49:18.905
the ability to carry off shift.

00:49:19.055 --> 00:49:21.005
And I use the term off
shift, not off duty.

00:49:21.185 --> 00:49:24.915
Um, under the R CM P Act, they onis 24 7.

00:49:25.665 --> 00:49:26.145
End of story.

00:49:26.205 --> 00:49:27.315
I have no problem with it.

00:49:27.375 --> 00:49:28.665
I will conduct myself.

00:49:29.135 --> 00:49:29.585
Um.

00:49:29.660 --> 00:49:32.500
To the appropriate standards.

00:49:32.540 --> 00:49:34.810
And, and in some cases, I
think my standards are higher

00:49:34.810 --> 00:49:35.520
than the organizations.

00:49:35.680 --> 00:49:36.150
So

00:49:38.710 --> 00:49:43.860
we're, I've got ex military
experience million years ago, but,

00:49:44.250 --> 00:49:45.850
uh, I'm a firearms instructor.

00:49:46.180 --> 00:49:47.829
We're trained in active shooter.

00:49:48.185 --> 00:49:50.195
Indoor and outdoor response.

00:49:50.685 --> 00:49:57.585
Um, I requalify with, um, shotgun,
carbine pistol every year.

00:49:57.594 --> 00:49:58.015
Mm hmm.

00:49:58.504 --> 00:50:01.345
Uh, I'm a firearms instructor.

00:50:01.415 --> 00:50:06.385
Um, I've had some covert training.

00:50:06.964 --> 00:50:07.874
Um,

00:50:10.065 --> 00:50:15.855
there are current police officers, peace
officers with those skills everywhere.

00:50:16.035 --> 00:50:23.095
And there's people who were formerly
on ERT, former air marshals, former

00:50:23.095 --> 00:50:26.490
military, They all have those skills.

00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:35.300
So I think what we should be looking
at in this, this, um, community or

00:50:35.300 --> 00:50:41.030
public safety crisis in our country
is allowing serving peace officers,

00:50:41.300 --> 00:50:43.250
individual choice to carry off shift.

00:50:43.409 --> 00:50:45.220
But I've heard, I've
heard from other cops.

00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:49.580
I don't trust my, some of my
coworkers to carry off shift.

00:50:51.125 --> 00:50:51.385
Okay.

00:50:51.385 --> 00:50:54.665
Well, have you brought your concerns
up to the supervisor that you don't

00:50:54.675 --> 00:50:56.335
trust them when they're working?

00:50:56.345 --> 00:50:57.055
No, of course not.

00:50:57.095 --> 00:50:57.515
Right.

00:50:57.595 --> 00:51:03.104
Um, and you know, so we don't have
anything to address what I call

00:51:03.105 --> 00:51:06.135
that death gap in a violent crisis.

00:51:06.585 --> 00:51:10.334
Like we've, we've changed a lot of laws
in our country because of, um, mass

00:51:11.015 --> 00:51:14.875
casualty events, some cost a billion
dollars, some which might cost a couple

00:51:14.875 --> 00:51:18.345
more billion on one incident alone.

00:51:18.575 --> 00:51:19.825
Or two incidents or three.

00:51:20.685 --> 00:51:24.435
So clearly, um, there's an interest

00:51:27.105 --> 00:51:30.004
to try and reduce mass casualty events.

00:51:30.065 --> 00:51:30.505
Sure.

00:51:30.545 --> 00:51:30.795
Right.

00:51:30.855 --> 00:51:36.505
And it's bad enough with one person,
let alone mass casualty events.

00:51:38.945 --> 00:51:39.704
We're already trained.

00:51:41.134 --> 00:51:42.355
We work in our communities.

00:51:43.465 --> 00:51:45.924
We know who's who in our communities.

00:51:46.414 --> 00:51:48.184
We know what to look
for in our communities.

00:51:48.684 --> 00:51:50.874
We get intelligence
bulletins all the time.

00:51:51.485 --> 00:51:56.244
Um, and we've got all those
specialists who go to work.

00:51:57.005 --> 00:52:01.055
Uh, two days, two nights, four
off in our communities, it would

00:52:01.055 --> 00:52:04.325
cost taxpayers, nothing, nothing.

00:52:04.615 --> 00:52:07.645
And here's the thing is you'll get
members, police officers saying,

00:52:07.655 --> 00:52:09.574
Oh, I don't trust my coworker.

00:52:09.745 --> 00:52:10.005
Okay.

00:52:10.005 --> 00:52:14.125
Well, you know, they carry
every day at work anyways.

00:52:14.125 --> 00:52:14.815
What's the problem.

00:52:15.645 --> 00:52:19.834
Um, and then they go, well, what
about a blue on blue, you know, like.

00:52:20.075 --> 00:52:24.265
You know, an officer has a gun at
a scene and they're on days off.

00:52:26.885 --> 00:52:29.565
Our plainclothes police officers
go for coffee every morning.

00:52:29.635 --> 00:52:29.835
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:52:29.885 --> 00:52:30.815
You don't have problems there.

00:52:30.875 --> 00:52:32.215
Ian Sim: They go for lunch every day.

00:52:32.735 --> 00:52:34.225
They go for afternoon coffee.

00:52:35.445 --> 00:52:38.265
Most of them don't wear their
vests, their soft body armor.

00:52:38.425 --> 00:52:40.864
Most of them take a, don't take
a radio with them, they just go.

00:52:42.334 --> 00:52:42.994
No problems.

00:52:44.285 --> 00:52:47.295
A number of police officers carry
their guns to and from home.

00:52:47.895 --> 00:52:52.695
Um, on their hip, either in uniform,
some will just take their gun in,

00:52:52.705 --> 00:52:55.635
in a plain clothes holster and go
home to, because they're on call,

00:52:55.645 --> 00:52:58.885
they work special units, uh, and
some will lock it up in the lockbox.

00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:00.660
Really no problems, right?

00:53:00.670 --> 00:53:03.850
So this is a worst case scenario.

00:53:04.600 --> 00:53:11.389
Um, a violent crisis, um, which the
governments have spent millions, if

00:53:11.389 --> 00:53:18.699
not over a billion on having the LLDA,
as I call it, off shift carry, um,

00:53:18.759 --> 00:53:20.689
cost taxpayers absolutely nothing.

00:53:21.490 --> 00:53:24.560
And it's the exact same people
you're calling in an emergency

00:53:24.560 --> 00:53:25.600
to come and save your life.

00:53:26.170 --> 00:53:27.380
Travis Bader: I think
it makes a lot of sense.

00:53:27.460 --> 00:53:30.550
I mean, it also, it's kind of like
the Switzerland approach where

00:53:30.569 --> 00:53:34.470
everyone gets mandatory conscription,
mandatory training, and then

00:53:34.470 --> 00:53:35.860
they're sent home with a firearm.

00:53:36.799 --> 00:53:40.849
And I think in Switzerland, they lock them
up, but if they need them, there they are.

00:53:40.870 --> 00:53:45.740
They're ready because they realize that
having properly trained individuals out

00:53:45.740 --> 00:53:49.690
there who can be mobilized at a moment's
notice is way better than trying to

00:53:49.690 --> 00:53:52.070
centralize all of this and, and react.

00:53:52.420 --> 00:53:54.510
And it's also got the
other effect on things too.

00:53:55.320 --> 00:53:59.050
Um, who, who is this off duty officer?

00:53:59.380 --> 00:53:59.920
I don't know.

00:54:00.030 --> 00:54:00.800
I'm in a crowd.

00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:01.840
I'm in a public place.

00:54:02.530 --> 00:54:06.220
I'm at a political event, like what
recently happened here in the States and.

00:54:07.055 --> 00:54:10.495
With, with Trump, uh, who's the
individual who's caring and who

00:54:10.495 --> 00:54:14.305
isn't like there is that saying an
armed society is a polite society.

00:54:14.305 --> 00:54:20.324
And I've had people from, uh, the UN
say, no, you have no idea what we've

00:54:20.324 --> 00:54:22.364
seen in different third world countries.

00:54:22.364 --> 00:54:26.745
And, and, uh, definitely an armed society
is not a, it's not a polite society.

00:54:27.565 --> 00:54:32.115
But the idea that maybe, maybe
Mike Tyson's approach, right?

00:54:32.775 --> 00:54:36.125
Where he talks about everyone's
gotten way too comfortable,

00:54:36.355 --> 00:54:38.964
uh, mouthing off at others.

00:54:38.964 --> 00:54:40.714
They haven't got smacked in the face.

00:54:40.995 --> 00:54:46.864
If you are somebody who's up to no
good, but there is a threat of getting

00:54:46.864 --> 00:54:50.365
smacked in the face, well, maybe
you'll hold your mouth a little bit.

00:54:50.375 --> 00:54:54.745
Maybe you'll decide not to do
something, or maybe you'll, you'll hold,

00:55:01.650 --> 00:55:05.870
Ian Sim: Well, the deterrence
effect, um, there's also, you

00:55:05.870 --> 00:55:08.500
know, in the big picture, mutually
assured destruction, Matt.

00:55:08.580 --> 00:55:09.040
Um,

00:55:11.130 --> 00:55:18.560
we have, so people who object to, um,
civilian ATC or what they call CCW in

00:55:18.560 --> 00:55:22.440
the States, concealed carry weapon,
um, again, Canadians don't know what,

00:55:23.365 --> 00:55:25.035
Really our Canadian firearms laws are.

00:55:25.235 --> 00:55:25.545
Travis Bader: Right.

00:55:25.605 --> 00:55:30.095
Ian Sim: Very few of them don't know what,
um, the different concealed carry laws are

00:55:30.095 --> 00:55:32.615
in various states, south of the border.

00:55:33.035 --> 00:55:37.194
They don't know what they are
in Brazil, Czech Republic.

00:55:37.195 --> 00:55:38.155
Like they don't know.

00:55:38.334 --> 00:55:38.759
They just don't know.

00:55:39.700 --> 00:55:40.980
I've heard bad things about the States.

00:55:40.980 --> 00:55:42.490
I see the stuff on the TV.

00:55:42.500 --> 00:55:43.010
It's no good.

00:55:44.060 --> 00:55:47.840
You're getting a skewed view from,
from that, because, you know,

00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:52.190
we all know in journalism, if it
bleeds, it leads, it's going to hit.

00:55:52.220 --> 00:55:54.130
I mean, I've seen, uh, outrage.

00:55:54.579 --> 00:55:54.839
There

00:55:57.919 --> 00:56:02.220
was a politician a couple of
years ago that said, you know,

00:56:02.259 --> 00:56:07.860
um, with all the sad face and
everything, 15 to take down a deer.

00:56:08.530 --> 00:56:12.060
Well, most Canadians would just nod
their head and go, yeah, true story.

00:56:12.955 --> 00:56:14.445
Well, they were prohibited.

00:56:14.455 --> 00:56:16.835
You were never allowed
to hunt deer with AR 15.

00:56:16.865 --> 00:56:21.464
So I would suggest they misled
the Canadian public, right?

00:56:21.475 --> 00:56:21.895
Yes.

00:56:21.945 --> 00:56:28.465
And I saw a CBC, um, documentary, a
short one on, uh, military style rifles.

00:56:29.285 --> 00:56:34.315
And they finished the segment
with a gentleman at range

00:56:35.085 --> 00:56:38.085
putting a fully loaded 30.

00:56:38.490 --> 00:56:43.910
Round magazine into the rifle,
cocking it and firing the whole

00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:47.170
30 round magazine on full auto.

00:56:47.950 --> 00:56:51.970
Okay, well, we've had five round
restrictions for magazines for

00:56:51.970 --> 00:56:53.280
centerfire rifles for years.

00:56:53.319 --> 00:56:53.680
Mm hmm.

00:56:55.115 --> 00:57:00.305
And fully automatic weapons were, I
think, banned in Canada in 74, maybe.

00:57:01.065 --> 00:57:04.325
Everyone who had machine guns
in 74, full automatic weapons,

00:57:04.335 --> 00:57:05.075
were allowed to keep them.

00:57:05.075 --> 00:57:05.805
Their grandfather.

00:57:05.965 --> 00:57:06.275
Travis Bader: Right.

00:57:06.545 --> 00:57:08.125
How many full auto
shootings do you hear about?

00:57:08.215 --> 00:57:09.115
I've never heard of one ever.

00:57:09.144 --> 00:57:09.404
Right.

00:57:09.404 --> 00:57:09.534
Yeah.

00:57:09.535 --> 00:57:11.615
They're still in the safes of
all these people who've had them.

00:57:11.754 --> 00:57:15.745
Ian Sim: So again, we're
talking a worst case scenario.

00:57:15.805 --> 00:57:19.465
People are, I get people are
anxious about the concept of, um,

00:57:20.195 --> 00:57:21.815
peace officers carrying off shift.

00:57:21.985 --> 00:57:26.965
Or even civilians, but what we
need to look at and, and we should

00:57:27.065 --> 00:57:31.375
is, um, you know, do you know
anything about CCW concealed carry

00:57:31.375 --> 00:57:33.284
programs in the United States?

00:57:33.585 --> 00:57:35.045
Travis Bader: I've done
some training down there.

00:57:35.054 --> 00:57:35.434
Yes.

00:57:35.565 --> 00:57:35.875
Ian Sim: Right.

00:57:35.924 --> 00:57:38.224
So most, most Canadians don't have a clue.

00:57:38.565 --> 00:57:41.594
Most police officers, peace
officers don't have a clue,

00:57:41.645 --> 00:57:41.965
Travis Bader: right?

00:57:41.975 --> 00:57:46.775
I think it was Utah have got a CCW permit
for them because they had reciprocity

00:57:46.775 --> 00:57:51.485
with other States and, Um, but, but
there's training, there's training that

00:57:51.485 --> 00:57:53.205
people have to get in order to get these.

00:57:53.205 --> 00:57:57.885
And the biggest part about that
training is don't use your gun, right?

00:57:57.925 --> 00:58:01.465
Essentially don't be pulling that gun out
unless your life or life of third party

00:58:02.025 --> 00:58:03.865
is in danger and you can qualify that.

00:58:04.905 --> 00:58:08.104
Ian Sim: And they have different, so
different states have different rules.

00:58:08.104 --> 00:58:08.544
Travis Bader: Yes.

00:58:08.674 --> 00:58:11.085
Ian Sim: Uh, some have
very little training.

00:58:11.845 --> 00:58:13.505
Constitutional carry states.

00:58:13.665 --> 00:58:13.895
Right.

00:58:13.905 --> 00:58:15.055
It's in the constitution.

00:58:15.835 --> 00:58:16.325
Here's your gun.

00:58:16.325 --> 00:58:16.895
You can carry.

00:58:17.515 --> 00:58:18.234
Not a fan.

00:58:18.995 --> 00:58:20.255
I'm not a fan of open carry.

00:58:20.910 --> 00:58:25.430
I carried openly in Arizona as a
young lad, creepy feeling, really

00:58:25.430 --> 00:58:30.790
weird for about 30 minutes, and
then you just got on with your day.

00:58:30.820 --> 00:58:31.510
Right.

00:58:31.710 --> 00:58:34.199
Um, but really weird to start with.

00:58:34.740 --> 00:58:35.960
I'm not a fan of open carry.

00:58:36.350 --> 00:58:42.920
Um, I am a fan of compassionate, common
sense, middle of the road, public policy.

00:58:43.450 --> 00:58:47.190
Um, we already have a Canadians
Fire and Safety course.

00:58:48.485 --> 00:58:53.765
We have pretty good legislation around
wilderness carry to protect life.

00:58:53.815 --> 00:58:54.135
Sure.

00:58:54.545 --> 00:59:01.465
Uh, most police services and, and other
services that, that carry guns, um, have

00:59:01.534 --> 00:59:03.824
good provincial and federal standards.

00:59:05.790 --> 00:59:12.710
Having, allowing peace officers currently
serving the choice to carry off shift,

00:59:13.520 --> 00:59:16.739
uh, enhances, um, no, it's not perfect.

00:59:16.989 --> 00:59:17.179
Okay.

00:59:17.180 --> 00:59:18.330
There, there's nothing perfect.

00:59:18.510 --> 00:59:24.509
We have cars, untold carnage with cars,
untold carnage with cigarettes, untold

00:59:24.509 --> 00:59:30.550
carnage with fast food, like, but what
we're talking about, how to address a

00:59:30.550 --> 00:59:34.930
worst case scenario, murder in progress,
a potential mass casualty event.

00:59:36.260 --> 00:59:38.939
And I'm telling you right now,
we can't respond any faster than.

00:59:39.175 --> 00:59:43.385
It takes to go through all those
steps and that gap, by the time

00:59:44.085 --> 00:59:51.134
dispatch gets the call, dispatches it
properly, accurately, um, we gear up.

00:59:51.540 --> 00:59:54.700
Roadside, and again, we will
move heaven and earth to get

00:59:54.700 --> 00:59:55.900
there as quickly as we can.

00:59:55.900 --> 01:00:01.999
A whole bunch of people are dead and
we've seen it all around the world.

01:00:02.010 --> 01:00:03.850
This isn't just an American thing.

01:00:03.990 --> 01:00:05.920
It's not just a North American thing.

01:00:06.490 --> 01:00:12.480
So I think the LLDA, as I
call it, um, is the answer.

01:00:12.570 --> 01:00:15.540
I know some people, um, will
be uncomfortable with it.

01:00:16.020 --> 01:00:22.700
We should try and, um, um, alleviate
their fears by just giving them the facts.

01:00:23.045 --> 01:00:24.215
We don't have to make anything up.

01:00:24.445 --> 01:00:25.865
We don't have to sugar coat anything.

01:00:26.675 --> 01:00:29.515
There's enough people out there
that, that are, you know, don't

01:00:29.515 --> 01:00:33.015
suffer from anxiety or, or super
anti gun or any number of things,

01:00:33.264 --> 01:00:35.435
or just people with good intentions.

01:00:35.445 --> 01:00:35.735
Sure.

01:00:36.465 --> 01:00:39.495
Um, Ottawa is never going to go for it.

01:00:39.545 --> 01:00:40.184
We know that.

01:00:40.795 --> 01:00:41.735
Province of Alberta.

01:00:42.415 --> 01:00:46.645
For example, could say, we
want our peace officers in the

01:00:46.645 --> 01:00:52.555
province of Alberta to have the
individual choice carry off shift.

01:00:54.354 --> 01:00:58.104
Maybe there's a one day course
for plain clothes, peace officers.

01:00:58.885 --> 01:00:59.924
There isn't now,

01:01:02.145 --> 01:01:05.225
you know, I see people in plain
clothes, uh, what, what the public

01:01:05.225 --> 01:01:07.675
might call undercover just means
plain clothes, out of uniform,

01:01:07.945 --> 01:01:08.939
undercovers a separate type of uniform.

01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:10.860
Specialized job description, but,

01:01:12.880 --> 01:01:18.110
and they're carrying, uh, holsters
that, that are, are clearly like,

01:01:18.120 --> 01:01:19.210
you're carrying a gun, dude.

01:01:19.910 --> 01:01:20.860
Like, hello.

01:01:21.650 --> 01:01:24.979
Travis Bader: Well, you're looking, most
people aren't that observant, but yes.

01:01:25.050 --> 01:01:28.349
Ian Sim: So, and yeah, I
mean, I, so I'm, I'm, um,

01:01:30.410 --> 01:01:35.870
covert operations or low viz
operations, um, usually your biggest,

01:01:36.020 --> 01:01:39.940
uh, first safety, um, mechanism layer.

01:01:41.445 --> 01:01:45.675
Is the fact you're covert, that they
can't see you're carrying a gun.

01:01:46.145 --> 01:01:50.995
And I've seen people on surveillance
and I'm like, Ooh, we need to do

01:01:50.995 --> 01:01:57.085
something with, uh, your gun belt,
your holster, uh, your clothing.

01:01:57.964 --> 01:02:02.085
Um, we can do a much better job
because some of the people that we're

01:02:02.085 --> 01:02:07.025
following, uh, during the, I was
going to say current gang war, uh,

01:02:07.065 --> 01:02:08.455
but it's been going on for decades.

01:02:10.605 --> 01:02:13.100
If they think you're carrying a
gun, they And not all of us are

01:02:13.100 --> 01:02:17.950
nice, clean cut, clean shaven,
like you look like a gangster.

01:02:18.070 --> 01:02:18.360
Travis Bader: Right.

01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:21.790
Ian Sim: I would be afraid of
you if you were walking, you

01:02:21.790 --> 01:02:23.710
know, behind me on the street.

01:02:24.860 --> 01:02:30.699
So, um, you know, we need, we can
carry, um, we can do a much better job.

01:02:31.365 --> 01:02:37.735
Internally, with our day to day
operations, it's a no brainer for

01:02:37.735 --> 01:02:44.825
Alberta, or any province, to address,
and it's not just current public safety,

01:02:44.865 --> 01:02:49.375
community safety issues in the last,
let's say decade, um, decade or so.

01:02:49.375 --> 01:02:50.315
Thank you.

01:02:50.330 --> 01:02:58.490
The LLDA, last line of defense act is,
is really, I think the best solution

01:02:58.510 --> 01:03:01.400
it's, it's both counter terrorism
legislation, but at the end of the day,

01:03:01.400 --> 01:03:05.099
it's just public safety legislation
and there's nothing that can touch it.

01:03:05.580 --> 01:03:09.859
Um, people may oppose it, uh,
for any number of reasons, which

01:03:09.859 --> 01:03:13.850
I've discussed, including some
police officers or peace officers.

01:03:13.980 --> 01:03:14.420
Travis Bader: Sure.

01:03:15.500 --> 01:03:18.840
Ian Sim: But do you have anything
better to address that gap?

01:03:21.040 --> 01:03:26.990
And in 61 years on this
planet, I haven't heard it.

01:03:27.560 --> 01:03:29.750
I haven't heard a better suggestion.

01:03:30.650 --> 01:03:31.670
It's not perfect.

01:03:32.650 --> 01:03:36.270
Um, human conflict isn't perfect.

01:03:36.330 --> 01:03:36.630
Travis Bader: No.

01:03:37.180 --> 01:03:41.290
Ian Sim: Um, a violent crisis
or any crisis isn't perfect.

01:03:41.299 --> 01:03:42.710
You do the best you can.

01:03:43.839 --> 01:03:45.360
I think this is the best we could do.

01:03:45.410 --> 01:03:47.520
Alberta is going to say we
want our peace officers.

01:03:47.845 --> 01:03:50.345
To have the individual
choice to carry off shift.

01:03:50.915 --> 01:03:53.925
The RCMP would likely
say, not in your life.

01:03:55.245 --> 01:03:55.565
I don't know.

01:03:55.565 --> 01:03:58.515
Maybe Alberta says, well, we'll,
we'll take that into consideration

01:03:58.515 --> 01:03:59.675
when we renew your contract.

01:03:59.895 --> 01:04:00.375
Travis Bader: Right.

01:04:00.415 --> 01:04:05.494
Ian Sim: But they could say to
Edmonton, Calgary, Lethbridge, whatever.

01:04:07.144 --> 01:04:08.005
This is what we want.

01:04:08.980 --> 01:04:13.350
And I think they would go with it.

01:04:13.860 --> 01:04:16.520
Um, they could try and just,
they should discuss it.

01:04:16.730 --> 01:04:19.340
They should bring up any concerns
they have, questions they have.

01:04:19.360 --> 01:04:22.320
But at the end of the day, we're
all caring on duty anyways.

01:04:24.290 --> 01:04:29.640
And obviously Albert has got some
leverage in terms of budgeting, um,

01:04:29.690 --> 01:04:35.060
any number of things, but we can't
address what I call the death gap today.

01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:39.530
And I can't see, I mean, what are we going
to double police officers in the street?

01:04:39.830 --> 01:04:42.350
We can't even get enough police
officers to get us to where we

01:04:42.350 --> 01:04:43.890
were when I started 25 years ago.

01:04:45.230 --> 01:04:46.209
And things are getting worse.

01:04:46.290 --> 01:04:49.870
Populations growing problems
are like things evolve sometimes

01:04:49.870 --> 01:04:50.810
better, sometimes worse.

01:04:51.100 --> 01:04:52.880
So we've got a community safety.

01:04:53.680 --> 01:05:00.320
Problem in this country, I'm focusing
narrowly on mass casualty events, but, um,

01:05:01.420 --> 01:05:06.240
you know, the odds of people say, well,
what are the chances of, of you needing

01:05:06.240 --> 01:05:08.179
your, your service pistol off shift?

01:05:08.660 --> 01:05:09.480
What are the chances?

01:05:09.509 --> 01:05:10.240
What are the odds?

01:05:10.290 --> 01:05:10.770
Right.

01:05:12.060 --> 01:05:12.960
It's not about the odds.

01:05:13.890 --> 01:05:14.600
It's the stakes.

01:05:16.290 --> 01:05:17.169
It's life or death.

01:05:17.279 --> 01:05:21.359
It couldn't be more important.

01:05:21.379 --> 01:05:23.209
It couldn't be a worst case scenario.

01:05:23.299 --> 01:05:25.119
So it's not the odds of it happening.

01:05:25.759 --> 01:05:26.809
It's the stakes.

01:05:28.380 --> 01:05:30.470
Travis Bader: Yeah, I have people
ask me, what are the odds of

01:05:30.490 --> 01:05:31.780
me getting in a car accident?

01:05:32.210 --> 01:05:35.240
Well, I spent a long time
since I've been in one.

01:05:35.240 --> 01:05:36.740
I'd have to say the odds are pretty low.

01:05:36.830 --> 01:05:38.100
So why do I wear a seatbelt?

01:05:39.190 --> 01:05:42.920
Because the stakes of not wearing
it and getting into a car accident

01:05:42.929 --> 01:05:44.929
are going to be way worse.

01:05:46.765 --> 01:05:51.545
So I, I like that last line
of defense act suggestion.

01:05:52.005 --> 01:05:55.565
I like it because you're already starting
with people who are trained and it

01:05:55.565 --> 01:06:01.975
creates a palatable path forward for
any government to say, well, it's okay

01:06:01.975 --> 01:06:03.994
because they've been trained before.

01:06:03.994 --> 01:06:05.014
We trusted them before.

01:06:05.015 --> 01:06:07.064
There's no reason not to trust them now.

01:06:07.135 --> 01:06:09.565
Oh, and look at this special
course that we've now put them on.

01:06:09.565 --> 01:06:11.505
And so we've, we've
done our due diligence.

01:06:11.635 --> 01:06:15.120
We've covered her butt, but,
uh, you know, These, this would

01:06:15.130 --> 01:06:19.280
be for retired peace officers.

01:06:19.510 --> 01:06:20.740
So it could be for.

01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:21.690
Ian Sim: Yeah.

01:06:22.030 --> 01:06:28.730
So I would include in the legislation, um,
retire, honorably retired peace officers

01:06:31.410 --> 01:06:37.425
who have retired within the last, um,
I don't know, maybe, maybe it would

01:06:37.425 --> 01:06:39.285
have to start from today, right?

01:06:39.285 --> 01:06:40.665
If you're honorably retired, you're good.

01:06:40.975 --> 01:06:45.574
Maybe if you've been out for three
to five years, you're still good,

01:06:45.574 --> 01:06:46.895
but you're gonna have to re qualify.

01:06:47.855 --> 01:06:51.915
We will carry our service pistols,
um, that we carry every day.

01:06:51.915 --> 01:06:57.884
Now, uh, if, if your department
doesn't allow you to carry.

01:06:58.525 --> 01:06:58.805
Right.

01:06:58.925 --> 01:06:59.935
Let's say Alberta does it.

01:06:59.935 --> 01:07:03.265
And there's, there's some, uh,
departments or, or, or police

01:07:03.265 --> 01:07:04.445
services that say no way.

01:07:06.955 --> 01:07:11.214
Can Alberta say, well, okay, you can't
carry your department's equipment.

01:07:11.475 --> 01:07:12.134
We get it.

01:07:12.944 --> 01:07:17.275
It's their equipment, but we're
going to allow you to carry

01:07:17.634 --> 01:07:20.104
off shift with your equipment.

01:07:22.215 --> 01:07:28.255
You will still have to pass
your department's AFQ, annual

01:07:28.255 --> 01:07:29.355
firearms qualification.

01:07:31.160 --> 01:07:37.810
Uh, at your own cost on days off,
but you do your department's course

01:07:37.810 --> 01:07:39.880
of fire with your own handgun,

01:07:41.960 --> 01:07:43.110
you can carry too.

01:07:43.890 --> 01:07:48.760
So your department says, no,
it's their, it's our equipment.

01:07:48.790 --> 01:07:49.300
I get it.

01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:54.659
And it's, it's makes sense if, I
mean, they own it and you know,

01:07:54.659 --> 01:07:57.040
we're very risk averse these days,
so that's part of the problem.

01:07:57.220 --> 01:07:57.500
Um,

01:07:59.680 --> 01:08:00.380
maybe there's.

01:08:01.275 --> 01:08:03.505
Uh, a way to come around
that, get around that.

01:08:03.945 --> 01:08:06.015
Um, you're honorably retired.

01:08:06.125 --> 01:08:08.815
Um, you're going to have to pay
for your own and you're going to

01:08:08.815 --> 01:08:14.304
have to qualify on the provincial
standard, which is armored car guards.

01:08:15.215 --> 01:08:17.824
Travis Bader: I think that bears
some discussion too, because there's

01:08:17.824 --> 01:08:22.490
going to be people who are listening
to this Who would say, well, why is

01:08:22.490 --> 01:08:26.860
one person's life, uh, valued higher?

01:08:26.870 --> 01:08:30.799
Why is a peace officer able to do it
and not me or whatever it might be.

01:08:31.260 --> 01:08:35.650
And I think the reality is one
person's life isn't, we're not saying

01:08:35.650 --> 01:08:37.040
one person's life is valued higher.

01:08:38.350 --> 01:08:41.580
From my perspective, this is a path
forward that's easily palatable

01:08:41.590 --> 01:08:46.300
for a political party to be able to
say, okay, we can get behind this.

01:08:47.600 --> 01:08:50.169
There's going to be those who are
out there who say, I'd rather be

01:08:50.169 --> 01:08:52.100
judged by 12 and carried by six.

01:08:52.100 --> 01:08:55.270
And if I believe that my life is
in danger, then I'm going to take,

01:08:55.539 --> 01:08:58.529
whether that's a firearm or not,
I'm going to take steps to be able

01:08:58.529 --> 01:09:00.410
to protect myself and my family.

01:09:01.220 --> 01:09:06.120
And for these people, not that I'm
advocating one way or the other, I'm

01:09:07.375 --> 01:09:11.155
But it would be probably important
for them to understand what those

01:09:11.155 --> 01:09:12.985
rights are for a private citizen.

01:09:13.045 --> 01:09:16.625
And they're the exact same as what
an armored car guard would do.

01:09:17.765 --> 01:09:25.004
And for an armored car guard, they're
trained on some tactical communication.

01:09:25.485 --> 01:09:28.605
I mean, it's a week long course,
really, uh, some places shorter,

01:09:28.855 --> 01:09:30.235
it's really short things.

01:09:30.235 --> 01:09:35.005
So empty hand defense, they're trained
on some scenario training, some legal

01:09:35.015 --> 01:09:40.554
studies, some firearms work, and their use
of force model is different from what you

01:09:40.554 --> 01:09:44.045
would see for a law enforcement officer
and law enforcement officer training.

01:09:44.285 --> 01:09:47.825
Does not have a big old disengage
all around it because that's their

01:09:47.835 --> 01:09:50.065
job to actively go there and engage.

01:09:50.825 --> 01:09:56.395
If there's a less violent means available,
the private citizen has to take it.

01:09:58.495 --> 01:10:01.724
If there's a less violent means available
that they can save their life or life of

01:10:01.724 --> 01:10:06.365
a third party and a reasonable and prudent
individual, what is, what do they call it?

01:10:06.374 --> 01:10:09.115
The reasonable man doctrine
or something like this.

01:10:09.565 --> 01:10:13.655
Um, somebody with the same life
experience and the same situation

01:10:13.675 --> 01:10:17.465
or same or similar situation would
reasonably come to the same conclusion.

01:10:18.025 --> 01:10:21.875
If there is a less violent means
available, you have to take it.

01:10:22.235 --> 01:10:25.455
But if there is no less
violent means available.

01:10:25.975 --> 01:10:31.885
You are justified in using as much force
as necessary in order to stop the threat.

01:10:32.175 --> 01:10:34.464
And that doesn't mean if the
person pulls a knife, you pull

01:10:34.464 --> 01:10:38.154
a knife, the person pulls a gun,
you pull a gun to stop the threat.

01:10:38.175 --> 01:10:42.095
You're not matching the threat,
you're going one step above

01:10:42.244 --> 01:10:43.404
so that you can stop it.

01:10:43.404 --> 01:10:46.654
It's not a battle of who's got the better
cardio and who's got the better fitness.

01:10:48.124 --> 01:10:48.634
And.

01:10:50.655 --> 01:10:56.135
Then I guess there's probably some
discussion about the before, the during,

01:10:56.135 --> 01:10:59.775
and the after, which would be important
for people to know about, but I'll

01:10:59.775 --> 01:11:03.315
just kind of get the conversation,
maybe rolling on that one a little bit.

01:11:04.674 --> 01:11:06.375
Do you have thoughts on that?

01:11:08.885 --> 01:11:09.025
The

01:11:09.025 --> 01:11:12.675
Ian Sim: bottom book right there
is the before, during, and after.

01:11:15.145 --> 01:11:20.405
I, so it's, it's, it's an, um, it,
it's written, um, in the United

01:11:20.405 --> 01:11:25.845
States for, uh, primarily civilians
with concealed carry permits.

01:11:26.345 --> 01:11:31.404
It's Masada, you needs no introduction
to anyone who's, um, familiar with,

01:11:31.435 --> 01:11:36.135
uh, defensive firearms use in,
in, he's been around for decades.

01:11:36.195 --> 01:11:36.525
Um,

01:11:39.005 --> 01:11:45.705
I, excuse me, I feel that book,
um, is mandatory reading for anyone

01:11:45.705 --> 01:11:50.625
who, Hasn't a serious interest in
anything related to self defense.

01:11:51.565 --> 01:11:54.595
That book is not about
tactics and techniques.

01:11:55.104 --> 01:11:58.174
There's lots of other shooting
schools and books that will do that.

01:11:58.695 --> 01:12:00.705
That is the before, during and after.

01:12:01.565 --> 01:12:07.015
And I think anyone who carries, uh,
um, uh, firearm professionally in

01:12:07.015 --> 01:12:08.635
this country should own that book.

01:12:09.375 --> 01:12:10.585
Travis Bader: It's called Deadly Force.

01:12:11.415 --> 01:12:13.585
Uh, understanding your
rights to self defense.

01:12:13.815 --> 01:12:15.945
Ian Sim: And again, uh, self
defense is self defense.

01:12:16.075 --> 01:12:20.575
Um, human combat is human combat.

01:12:20.694 --> 01:12:25.664
Um, it's, and, and our laws are very
similar to many in the States, but again,

01:12:25.665 --> 01:12:28.195
it, it's highly relevant to Canada.

01:12:28.204 --> 01:12:31.775
So if you're interested in self
defense, that's one of the best books.

01:12:31.775 --> 01:12:35.435
And I I've, I've read nonstop
since I was, you know, 12.

01:12:36.615 --> 01:12:39.264
Um, anyone who cares a
firearm professionally in this

01:12:39.265 --> 01:12:40.375
country should have that book.

01:12:41.540 --> 01:12:47.020
I think crown counsel and prosecutors
should have that book, defense

01:12:47.040 --> 01:12:51.380
counsel should have it, homicide
investigators should have it, use

01:12:51.380 --> 01:12:55.480
of force instructors should have
it, police union should have it, the

01:12:55.480 --> 01:13:00.539
IIO, SIU, uh, units and organizations
that investigate police use of force.

01:13:00.850 --> 01:13:01.700
They should have it.

01:13:02.310 --> 01:13:08.430
It's the best book that I found, whether
you're allowed to carry a gun or not.

01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:12.760
And for all those other groups,
I just talked to a crown council

01:13:12.770 --> 01:13:16.740
for Alberta and BC recently,
dealing with the firearms crowns.

01:13:16.989 --> 01:13:17.289
Travis Bader: Yeah.

01:13:17.449 --> 01:13:17.759
Ian Sim: Um.

01:13:18.029 --> 01:13:18.549
Travis Bader: Is that Todd?

01:13:19.589 --> 01:13:24.590
Ian Sim: Uh, no, it was, it
was, um, a woman from BC and

01:13:24.590 --> 01:13:26.190
another gentleman from Alberta.

01:13:26.270 --> 01:13:26.430
Yeah.

01:13:26.470 --> 01:13:31.140
Um, and they were very interested
and, and the other book, of course,

01:13:31.490 --> 01:13:33.365
um, They're interested as well.

01:13:33.505 --> 01:13:40.195
Uh, so I will be sending one copy of
this book, uh, published by Harvard

01:13:40.195 --> 01:13:45.354
university, uh, to both of them and,
uh, Deadly Force is available on Amazon.

01:13:45.735 --> 01:13:47.545
Travis Bader: So the other one
you have is To Keep and Bear

01:13:47.545 --> 01:13:49.045
Arms by Joyce Lee Malcolm.

01:13:49.535 --> 01:13:49.805
Ian Sim: Yeah.

01:13:49.825 --> 01:13:51.775
And published by Harvard university.

01:13:51.775 --> 01:13:55.515
She's a history professor and she's
just written on English common law

01:13:55.515 --> 01:14:00.964
around firearms from the English
bill of rights in 1689, I think,

01:14:01.385 --> 01:14:02.995
uh, up until the early 1900s.

01:14:03.955 --> 01:14:10.000
So, um, I think anyone who owns a
firearm Should own to keep and bear arms.

01:14:10.670 --> 01:14:14.290
I think every gun store in the
country should have to keep and

01:14:14.290 --> 01:14:20.660
bear arms It should be in all
24 law schools in the country.

01:14:21.050 --> 01:14:25.050
I know it's at UBC at the
law school there already You

01:14:25.050 --> 01:14:25.620
Travis Bader: put it there.

01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:26.550
Ian Sim: I did not.

01:14:26.610 --> 01:14:26.920
No.

01:14:26.920 --> 01:14:31.680
I was going to, um, because I'm
actually working on donating these

01:14:31.680 --> 01:14:36.000
books at my own costs to, you know,
Crown Council, um, Parliamentary

01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:39.070
Library in Ottawa, 24 Law School.

01:14:39.070 --> 01:14:40.709
So that saved me a couple of bucks.

01:14:40.760 --> 01:14:41.250
Um.

01:14:41.260 --> 01:14:41.709
Not bad.

01:14:41.940 --> 01:14:43.460
The, uh, we have it already.

01:14:43.680 --> 01:14:44.080
Travis Bader: Okay.

01:14:44.140 --> 01:14:48.590
Ian Sim: So, and, and that's English
common law, which is the foundation of our

01:14:48.590 --> 01:14:50.090
legal system, the American legal system.

01:14:50.090 --> 01:14:52.660
The Americans got the second
amendment from the British.

01:14:52.660 --> 01:14:52.690
Okay.

01:14:53.100 --> 01:14:55.770
Now the British have lost all
their firearms rights for the

01:14:55.770 --> 01:14:58.270
most part, in kind of weird ways.

01:14:58.490 --> 01:14:58.740
Yeah.

01:14:58.780 --> 01:14:59.160
Um.

01:14:59.210 --> 01:15:00.200
They can have suppressors.

01:15:00.530 --> 01:15:00.870
We can't have

01:15:00.870 --> 01:15:01.450
Travis Bader: suppressors.

01:15:01.490 --> 01:15:04.020
Ian Sim: Well, I mean, the gun hating
British and they're not gun hating, but,

01:15:04.040 --> 01:15:08.130
but you know, something, the gun hating
British, um, they were walking around

01:15:08.130 --> 01:15:10.580
with MP5s in Heathrow airport for decades.

01:15:10.650 --> 01:15:11.019
I know.

01:15:11.070 --> 01:15:13.280
Because of, uh, in the seventies,
the eighties, terrorism

01:15:13.280 --> 01:15:14.920
campaigns, IRA, the whole bit.

01:15:15.320 --> 01:15:18.180
Um, you've got these old
dudes running around the

01:15:18.180 --> 01:15:20.050
countryside and their tweed caps.

01:15:20.200 --> 01:15:21.770
Um, my dad was from Scotland.

01:15:21.770 --> 01:15:22.370
I love tweed.

01:15:22.450 --> 01:15:22.780
Travis Bader: Yeah.

01:15:22.830 --> 01:15:23.350
Ian Sim: Um.

01:15:24.180 --> 01:15:28.860
Um, with their, you know, their hunting
rifles with suppressors on them, what

01:15:28.860 --> 01:15:34.150
the public might call a silencer because,
um, you know, the density population

01:15:34.150 --> 01:15:36.780
in Britain, um, guns make noises.

01:15:37.069 --> 01:15:42.510
They're not that loud, but they're
concerned about disturbing, um, the,

01:15:42.570 --> 01:15:44.190
the neighborhood, the community.

01:15:44.425 --> 01:15:49.175
And we've had ranges close in
Canada on bylaws for noise.

01:15:49.385 --> 01:15:49.665
Right.

01:15:49.685 --> 01:15:51.275
They've closed the ranges
down because of that.

01:15:51.425 --> 01:15:53.605
Well, the answer is suppressors.

01:15:55.075 --> 01:15:57.275
Suppressors were banned,
I think in the seventies,

01:15:58.125 --> 01:15:58.435
Travis Bader: silencers

01:15:58.554 --> 01:16:00.915
Ian Sim: because of American movies.

01:16:00.964 --> 01:16:01.354
Travis Bader: Right.

01:16:01.445 --> 01:16:04.995
Ian Sim: So people kind of, their
heads exploded and, and, and got

01:16:04.995 --> 01:16:07.225
all worried about, oh my God,
suppressors, we have to ban them.

01:16:08.835 --> 01:16:12.355
Like the martial arts movies in
the seventies, throwing stars,

01:16:12.385 --> 01:16:14.755
nunchucks, um, butterfly knives.

01:16:15.565 --> 01:16:15.735
Travis Bader: Yeah.

01:16:15.735 --> 01:16:20.605
None of these are really super effective
tools in most people's hands, but no,

01:16:21.195 --> 01:16:24.245
better prohibit them because we saw Bruce
Lee and look at the damage he can do.

01:16:24.305 --> 01:16:24.655
Ian Sim: Right.

01:16:24.665 --> 01:16:30.235
So again, sound policy, I
don't know that sound policy.

01:16:30.704 --> 01:16:34.675
Um, I, I mean, I, I like some
of our firearms laws here.

01:16:35.595 --> 01:16:37.675
I like some of the firearms
laws in the United States.

01:16:38.765 --> 01:16:43.565
I wish the United States, some
States had more of our firearms laws.

01:16:43.645 --> 01:16:43.955
Travis Bader: Hmm.

01:16:44.185 --> 01:16:45.695
Ian Sim: But I wish we had some of theirs.

01:16:46.235 --> 01:16:48.175
Czech Republic does a good job.

01:16:48.185 --> 01:16:52.065
Like, so I'm just
interested in what works.

01:16:52.395 --> 01:16:58.235
I I'm, I'm that kind of that sober
second thought that calm, um,

01:17:00.715 --> 01:17:04.285
assessment, uh, I'm not going
to get all wound up either way.

01:17:04.325 --> 01:17:08.314
Uh, I'm, I'm not going to get too swayed
by the left, the right, or anything else.

01:17:08.344 --> 01:17:15.914
Um, public safety, um, isn't something to
be messed with, shouldn't be misleading

01:17:15.914 --> 01:17:17.874
people, you shouldn't be lying to them.

01:17:19.420 --> 01:17:24.170
There's ways of addressing public
safety in Canada, particularly

01:17:24.180 --> 01:17:26.020
for mass casualty events.

01:17:26.070 --> 01:17:30.870
Um, again, like the LLDA that is
going to cost taxpayers nothing.

01:17:32.050 --> 01:17:33.500
Provinces could implement it.

01:17:34.640 --> 01:17:40.699
Um, and you know, I don't know,
we've got nothing else in its place.

01:17:42.370 --> 01:17:47.089
So why would you, you know,
look for reasons to oppose this?

01:17:48.640 --> 01:17:52.460
When you have nothing concrete,
you have no viable option

01:17:55.510 --> 01:17:56.290
in its place.

01:17:56.590 --> 01:18:00.020
So it's like the kid, it's like the,
the, the, the students I made at

01:18:00.020 --> 01:18:03.360
university or down on rec beach when
I used to work there, I've since

01:18:03.600 --> 01:18:05.590
moved on, but you know, I get it.

01:18:05.600 --> 01:18:06.980
You're mad, you're yelling.

01:18:08.160 --> 01:18:12.029
Do you have any suggestions
for me as a police officer?

01:18:12.030 --> 01:18:14.890
Do you know any country
that's doing a better job?

01:18:15.515 --> 01:18:18.365
Do you know any police officer or
police services doing a better job?

01:18:18.655 --> 01:18:21.285
What we're looking for at the
end of the day is to improve

01:18:21.355 --> 01:18:23.845
what we do for Canadians.

01:18:24.355 --> 01:18:27.965
And ideally, uh, without spending tons
of money, it's going to cost money.

01:18:27.965 --> 01:18:28.335
I get it.

01:18:28.425 --> 01:18:29.004
Travis Bader: But the

01:18:29.085 --> 01:18:31.845
Ian Sim: LLDA cost taxpayers, nothing.

01:18:32.265 --> 01:18:36.964
And there's nothing that anyone has to
address that death gap, as I call it.

01:18:37.705 --> 01:18:40.274
Travis Bader: I think we should probably
let the listeners who aren't aware of

01:18:40.275 --> 01:18:42.544
what RecBeach is, what RecBeach is.

01:18:42.545 --> 01:18:47.065
So if people haven't been there, I'll
let you explain what RecBeach is, unless

01:18:47.065 --> 01:18:48.365
you wanted me to take the lead on that.

01:18:48.375 --> 01:18:48.635
So

01:18:48.635 --> 01:18:48.955
Ian Sim: RecBeach.

01:18:49.235 --> 01:18:55.285
Beach is, uh, maybe the oldest
clothing optional beach in the country.

01:18:55.615 --> 01:18:55.775
Travis Bader: And

01:18:55.775 --> 01:19:00.935
Ian Sim: I believe this year or last
year, it won best nude beach in the world.

01:19:01.885 --> 01:19:05.945
So, you know, there's a couple
of people down on Rett Beach.

01:19:06.035 --> 01:19:10.235
It's at Pacific Spirit Park out by
UBC, University of British Columbia.

01:19:10.755 --> 01:19:12.795
Um, it's down 500 steps.

01:19:13.545 --> 01:19:16.935
To the beach, it's a beautiful
beach location is spectacular.

01:19:17.265 --> 01:19:21.645
Um, but it's always been
kind of hippie beach.

01:19:21.655 --> 01:19:27.325
I mean, there's people down there that
were probably at Haight Ashbury in 69.

01:19:27.495 --> 01:19:27.875
Right.

01:19:27.915 --> 01:19:28.554
Like for real.

01:19:28.585 --> 01:19:28.745
Right.

01:19:28.815 --> 01:19:30.895
Um, not many, but.

01:19:32.145 --> 01:19:38.185
So, um, it, it attracts a,
um, colourful clientele.

01:19:39.155 --> 01:19:43.255
Uh, there's, there's a bit of a myth, an
urban myth, I would suggest that it's sex

01:19:43.255 --> 01:19:45.565
drugs and rock and roll and anything goes.

01:19:46.044 --> 01:19:49.065
That's not the case,
but it's a unique place.

01:19:49.704 --> 01:19:53.955
We used to be quite confrontational
with law enforcement, um, decade

01:19:53.955 --> 01:19:55.495
and a half, a bit more ago.

01:19:56.025 --> 01:19:57.625
Um, they didn't like us.

01:19:57.625 --> 01:19:58.825
Apparently we didn't like them.

01:19:59.404 --> 01:20:01.845
Uh, that's been turned around nicely.

01:20:02.335 --> 01:20:10.575
Um, the beach and, and policing, uh, and
metro parks that runs the park itself.

01:20:10.995 --> 01:20:16.595
Um, you know, policing has asked them,
police yourselves or we'll do it for you.

01:20:17.465 --> 01:20:23.614
Um, and it's worked far better,
uh, the confrontations, um, the

01:20:23.614 --> 01:20:26.135
animosity, like it's, it's really is.

01:20:27.100 --> 01:20:29.860
It's not nearly as wild as it used to be.

01:20:30.490 --> 01:20:35.210
Um, a lot, a lot of international
visitors go there not knowing

01:20:35.210 --> 01:20:36.220
it's clothing optional.

01:20:36.249 --> 01:20:40.510
A lot of students from the UBC,
uh, go there and they're like, Oh,

01:20:41.580 --> 01:20:43.300
Okay, nude beach, we're from Europe.

01:20:43.510 --> 01:20:44.110
What's the big deal.

01:20:44.110 --> 01:20:44.300
Right.

01:20:44.300 --> 01:20:44.869
Travis Bader: Right, right, right.

01:20:44.870 --> 01:20:45.300
Um,

01:20:45.710 --> 01:20:51.229
Ian Sim: so yeah, it's, it's, uh,
and you know, it's, it's a different

01:20:51.230 --> 01:20:55.360
place, but it's, it's, it's not as
crazy and wild as it used to be.

01:20:55.370 --> 01:20:59.139
There's more, um, you know,
more single females say I'm

01:20:59.139 --> 01:21:00.439
comfortable coming here now.

01:21:00.440 --> 01:21:02.780
Young families, we wouldn't
come here in the past.

01:21:03.280 --> 01:21:09.305
Um, It's becoming a little bit mainstream,
much to the displeasure of some of the.

01:21:10.255 --> 01:21:10.395
Travis Bader: The

01:21:10.615 --> 01:21:11.085
Ian Sim: lifers.

01:21:11.095 --> 01:21:11.595
Hippies.

01:21:11.655 --> 01:21:12.365
Yeah.

01:21:12.845 --> 01:21:13.435
Or the nudists.

01:21:13.465 --> 01:21:15.124
I mean, they're, they're
naturalists, right?

01:21:15.124 --> 01:21:16.325
They're, they're natureists rather.

01:21:16.325 --> 01:21:17.555
Natureists,

01:21:17.555 --> 01:21:17.950
Travis Bader: there you go.

01:21:17.950 --> 01:21:18.213
There you

01:21:18.213 --> 01:21:18.344
Ian Sim: go.

01:21:18.345 --> 01:21:21.874
They call people who wear their, their
clothes and their bathing suits on

01:21:21.874 --> 01:21:23.145
the beach, they call them textiles.

01:21:23.535 --> 01:21:28.465
Um, about, I don't know,
30 percent are unclothed.

01:21:28.505 --> 01:21:30.035
Travis Bader: Do they do
that in a derogatory way?

01:21:30.065 --> 01:21:30.835
The textiles?

01:21:30.835 --> 01:21:33.085
Yeah, they kind of, textiles, right?

01:21:33.435 --> 01:21:33.794
So it's.

01:21:33.805 --> 01:21:35.854
Spectators, people coming
down looking for a show.

01:21:35.885 --> 01:21:36.055
Hey,

01:21:36.055 --> 01:21:38.245
Ian Sim: I did foot patrols
on rec beach last weekend.

01:21:38.295 --> 01:21:42.145
Um, I, I, you know, I, I was running the
beach there for, for quite a few years.

01:21:42.225 --> 01:21:49.964
Um, I maintained a good, respectful
working relationship on the beach.

01:21:51.075 --> 01:21:54.545
That beach that I call an
alien planet on an alien planet

01:21:55.265 --> 01:21:59.265
during COVID black lives matter.

01:21:59.485 --> 01:22:03.805
Um, you know, as, as, like I
said, as someone called me, uh,

01:22:03.885 --> 01:22:06.005
an old white colonial settler cop.

01:22:06.095 --> 01:22:12.785
So, um, if we can maintain that
type of relationship there during

01:22:12.795 --> 01:22:16.125
those recent times, we can do
it anywhere in the country.

01:22:16.475 --> 01:22:20.319
We just got to get out of our cars, put
the right people in the right places.

01:22:20.980 --> 01:22:22.840
On the street, on foot, or on bikes.

01:22:22.840 --> 01:22:30.000
And we can kind of get back to
basics, which I think is what

01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:35.850
community safety and public
safety in this country needs.

01:22:36.289 --> 01:22:37.460
I just think the country needs it.

01:22:38.639 --> 01:22:41.880
Travis Bader: I, yeah, I think an
understanding of what those basics are

01:22:41.880 --> 01:22:43.549
and where this podcast can hopefully go.

01:22:44.170 --> 01:22:49.600
Like when we understand what our charter
rights are, what a, what is acceptable in

01:22:49.600 --> 01:22:55.049
the courts, because the courts, the laws
don't tell you what you can do really,

01:22:55.049 --> 01:22:56.700
they tell you kind of what you can't do.

01:22:56.700 --> 01:22:58.740
And then the courts will come
in and they'll say, okay,

01:22:58.740 --> 01:22:59.599
you were right or wrong.

01:22:59.600 --> 01:23:07.090
And in, in how you applied that, um,
for individuals who are looking to,

01:23:07.600 --> 01:23:12.190
um, Or put into a situation where
they might have to use deadly force.

01:23:13.250 --> 01:23:15.800
I would highly suggest a look
at the armor car guard model.

01:23:16.070 --> 01:23:17.330
Um, you're right.

01:23:17.780 --> 01:23:19.990
Uh, my understanding is the same as yours.

01:23:20.120 --> 01:23:20.990
I shouldn't say you're right.

01:23:21.020 --> 01:23:26.959
My understanding is the same as yours in
so far as we have a federal model for,

01:23:26.960 --> 01:23:31.589
um, training for the armor car guards, but
it's administered provincially, just like

01:23:31.730 --> 01:23:38.225
ATT's geographical extent is administered
Provincially, uh, authorization

01:23:38.225 --> 01:23:39.975
to carry is the same sort of way.

01:23:40.705 --> 01:23:43.545
You can have these
certifications transferred

01:23:43.545 --> 01:23:44.994
from one province to the other.

01:23:45.024 --> 01:23:50.264
You can have them if, if firearms officers
on BC and Alberta say, Oh, you're, you're

01:23:50.265 --> 01:23:51.825
going to be in between these two places.

01:23:51.825 --> 01:23:52.495
Not a problem.

01:23:53.224 --> 01:23:55.384
I've done work with other businesses.

01:23:55.385 --> 01:23:57.164
There's a fellow on the island.

01:23:57.164 --> 01:23:58.169
I'm trying to remember the name.

01:23:58.330 --> 01:24:01.870
Um, the name of his
business, but he was robbed.

01:24:01.880 --> 01:24:07.670
He had a jewelry store and, um,
ended up, uh, using deadly force.

01:24:07.680 --> 01:24:11.990
He had a gun, he was a sports shooter
and he had a gun that he, I mean, he's

01:24:11.990 --> 01:24:15.729
got a jewelry store or what better, what
safer place to store his firearm as well.

01:24:15.729 --> 01:24:16.949
Everything was legally kept.

01:24:16.949 --> 01:24:19.920
And anyways, that went before the courts.

01:24:19.920 --> 01:24:24.575
He came back and, Ended up getting himself
certified to be able to carry based on the

01:24:24.575 --> 01:24:26.065
fact that there is a threat on the store.

01:24:26.065 --> 01:24:32.425
But I think they worked at not so much
in, uh, the protection of life area.

01:24:32.464 --> 01:24:35.284
It was more in the cash
or negotiables area.

01:24:35.294 --> 01:24:40.564
If your primary activity is, I think they
looked more sort of the armored car route.

01:24:40.674 --> 01:24:44.345
I know in BC here, we've had other,
uh, jewelry stores that have,

01:24:44.375 --> 01:24:50.755
um, started to open up under the
security programs division of BC.

01:24:51.075 --> 01:24:57.775
Option for an armed presence, whether
that be jewelry store owners, uh, or

01:24:57.785 --> 01:25:00.535
having armed security at their locations.

01:25:00.545 --> 01:25:05.885
So there are conversations that
have been started over the years.

01:25:06.585 --> 01:25:11.504
Um, individuals looking at this would know
that they'd have to look at through the

01:25:11.504 --> 01:25:16.265
firearms act regulations and the criminal
code, they have to have an idea of what,

01:25:16.545 --> 01:25:22.835
um, Is justifiable in the, the big three
that they, uh, Canada kind of stole.

01:25:22.835 --> 01:25:25.505
I think it was Masada Yube was
the one preaching it as well was

01:25:25.745 --> 01:25:27.195
weapon intent delivery system.

01:25:27.335 --> 01:25:28.735
Was that, was that a Yube thing?

01:25:29.594 --> 01:25:29.834
So

01:25:29.855 --> 01:25:33.704
Ian Sim: I, I'm familiar with
Masada Yube for decades, I've,

01:25:33.704 --> 01:25:35.274
I've, I never trained with him.

01:25:35.385 --> 01:25:35.725
Right.

01:25:35.784 --> 01:25:39.395
Um, and I've read one or
two of his other books.

01:25:39.760 --> 01:25:40.120
Travis Bader: Hmm.

01:25:40.270 --> 01:25:41.500
Ian Sim: But it was decades ago.

01:25:41.590 --> 01:25:41.980
Travis Bader: Okay.

01:25:42.250 --> 01:25:46.380
Ian Sim: I've read this one,
uh, I think three times now.

01:25:46.380 --> 01:25:48.360
In the last two years, um,

01:25:50.980 --> 01:25:52.480
laws evolve Hmm.

01:25:52.780 --> 01:25:55.110
As do societies for better, for worse.

01:25:56.300 --> 01:26:01.750
Uh, self-defense laws is
evolving in Canada, um, slowly.

01:26:01.840 --> 01:26:02.200
Travis Bader: Hmm.

01:26:02.470 --> 01:26:03.940
Ian Sim: Which is a good thing.

01:26:04.210 --> 01:26:05.890
We don't live in a war zone.

01:26:06.160 --> 01:26:06.400
Travis Bader: Yeah.

01:26:06.460 --> 01:26:10.700
Ian Sim: Um, the beauty of that
book is, uh, deadly force is

01:26:10.700 --> 01:26:12.465
that the Americans have a far.

01:26:13.235 --> 01:26:21.105
Larger body of, um, knowledge and
experience, um, with self defense law

01:26:21.595 --> 01:26:23.405
and our laws are very much the same.

01:26:23.835 --> 01:26:29.305
Um, laws, I don't think
laws prevent crime.

01:26:29.505 --> 01:26:34.525
I think, I think laws
are used deal with crime.

01:26:34.775 --> 01:26:35.165
Sure.

01:26:35.374 --> 01:26:37.885
Because the vast majority
of people are good people.

01:26:38.345 --> 01:26:43.845
Um, good people outnumber
bad people by far.

01:26:43.885 --> 01:26:44.235
Hmm.

01:26:44.235 --> 01:26:44.299
Hmm.

01:26:44.640 --> 01:26:48.230
In, in everywhere in the
world, um, and always will.

01:26:48.640 --> 01:26:50.680
Travis Bader: And that's an awesome
thing to hear from somebody who's

01:26:50.680 --> 01:26:55.490
spent the last 25 years in policing
and sees the worst in society at times.

01:26:55.490 --> 01:26:57.350
That's, that's a refreshing thing to hear.

01:26:57.870 --> 01:26:59.889
Ian Sim: You know, I'm
the eternal optimist.

01:27:00.250 --> 01:27:03.850
Uh, it's getting a little bit harder,
um, the way the world is going.

01:27:04.570 --> 01:27:06.350
Um, I still like people.

01:27:07.695 --> 01:27:12.445
I wouldn't have lasted one season on
a wrecked beach had I not liked people

01:27:13.205 --> 01:27:19.895
and had half a clue how to talk to them,
um, or probably, you know, at a, what

01:27:19.895 --> 01:27:27.145
someone call a left coast university,
um, As an old white colonial settler cop.

01:27:27.155 --> 01:27:29.285
Like, I mean, what else
have I got against me?

01:27:29.315 --> 01:27:29.715
Um,

01:27:35.235 --> 01:27:41.515
are, are the discussion is changing
around public safety in, in this country.

01:27:42.184 --> 01:27:44.635
Uh, the world seems to
be slipping everywhere.

01:27:45.115 --> 01:27:45.245
Travis Bader: You

01:27:45.245 --> 01:27:47.785
Ian Sim: know, Europe kind of used
to be the gold standard, not anymore.

01:27:47.785 --> 01:27:49.074
Travis Bader: And,

01:27:50.754 --> 01:27:54.475
Ian Sim: and what we talk about,
what we call public safety, which

01:27:54.475 --> 01:28:00.905
is my mandate, public safety is
community safety is comprised of two.

01:28:01.680 --> 01:28:03.020
Essential pillars,

01:28:05.470 --> 01:28:11.510
you need both of them to have
effective, enduring community safety.

01:28:13.030 --> 01:28:15.679
One of those pillars is one we're
familiar with called public safety.

01:28:16.010 --> 01:28:18.769
That's the core mandate of
governments at all levels,

01:28:19.890 --> 01:28:21.840
municipal, provincial, and federal.

01:28:25.090 --> 01:28:31.219
The other one, personal safety,
which is everyone's right.

01:28:31.220 --> 01:28:38.260
And if you choose your responsibility,
um, I had a woman talk to me recently.

01:28:38.260 --> 01:28:41.220
She goes, you know, a
woman's right to choose.

01:28:42.990 --> 01:28:49.480
Is how, when, and if to defend her
life and the lives of her children.

01:28:51.340 --> 01:28:57.450
That's a woman's right to choose because
if I'm not safe, I don't get to make

01:28:57.450 --> 01:29:00.039
any decisions on reproductive rights,

01:29:02.119 --> 01:29:09.540
my hijab, my necklace, my pin, who I
love, like, and she's of course, right.

01:29:10.210 --> 01:29:18.900
Um, and you know, I mean, so
community safety relies on public

01:29:18.900 --> 01:29:19.910
safety and personal safety.

01:29:20.590 --> 01:29:22.879
You can ignore your own personal
safety as many people do.

01:29:23.630 --> 01:29:24.049
That's fine.

01:29:24.080 --> 01:29:27.740
I mean, the first, the first rule of
personal safety is usually in, you know,

01:29:27.740 --> 01:29:30.759
I'll talk about in university or college
or even high school, put your phone away

01:29:31.789 --> 01:29:32.049
Travis Bader: and

01:29:32.049 --> 01:29:34.509
Ian Sim: you've lost half
the class or more, right.

01:29:34.739 --> 01:29:36.810
They're young, they're
going to live forever.

01:29:36.820 --> 01:29:37.540
They're bulletproof.

01:29:37.570 --> 01:29:39.010
Nothing bad's ever going to happen.

01:29:39.010 --> 01:29:39.410
I get it.

01:29:39.410 --> 01:29:39.890
Right.

01:29:41.790 --> 01:29:46.620
But you know, owning a firearm,
uh, doesn't make you safe.

01:29:47.000 --> 01:29:50.320
In and of itself, any more than owning
a guitar, it makes you a musician.

01:29:50.370 --> 01:29:50.830
Travis Bader: Right.

01:29:50.960 --> 01:29:51.760
Ian Sim: Um.

01:29:51.940 --> 01:29:52.480
Good point.

01:29:52.650 --> 01:29:57.470
So, you know, there's the before,
the during, the after, that's

01:29:57.470 --> 01:30:01.820
the beauty of, of Masada Yub's
book, Deadly Force, uh, Amazon.

01:30:02.439 --> 01:30:06.449
Um, the other book, Harvard University
Press, a little bit harder to get.

01:30:09.870 --> 01:30:10.899
You're already armed.

01:30:10.899 --> 01:30:12.430
Like people say, why did you become.

01:30:13.065 --> 01:30:14.035
Why do you want to become a cop?

01:30:14.945 --> 01:30:18.955
I said, well, I need a
job where there's no math.

01:30:20.575 --> 01:30:23.695
So I went down the list of jobs
that don't require any math.

01:30:23.965 --> 01:30:25.614
I went down, went down.

01:30:25.614 --> 01:30:32.375
I'm like, cop, no math plus gun,
which is kind of mathematical,

01:30:32.894 --> 01:30:33.745
but I could figure it out.

01:30:34.154 --> 01:30:34.654
And I'm like.

01:30:35.535 --> 01:30:36.555
I'm going to be one of those.

01:30:38.055 --> 01:30:41.745
Um, because they'll ask me in
classes, because there's, there's

01:30:41.745 --> 01:30:45.434
people in high school, university,
college, why do you become a cop?

01:30:45.434 --> 01:30:47.915
Because there's a good percentage
there that are interested in a law

01:30:47.915 --> 01:30:51.685
enforcement career, some are lawyers
and the whole bit, but I'm like,

01:30:51.685 --> 01:30:57.214
well, I wanted to live my life armed
and they don't know what that means.

01:30:58.905 --> 01:31:01.425
Travis Bader: I've never heard
somebody say that before.

01:31:01.505 --> 01:31:03.595
It's always, I want to help others.

01:31:03.595 --> 01:31:07.015
I like dealing with people, which
are all parts of it, I'm sure.

01:31:08.264 --> 01:31:08.825
So, well,

01:31:08.934 --> 01:31:11.105
Ian Sim: so again, I went, I don't know.

01:31:11.155 --> 01:31:14.584
Um, my dad worked for the federal
government safety, safety, safety.

01:31:14.585 --> 01:31:18.554
I grew up watching war
movies on Saturdays as a kid.

01:31:18.684 --> 01:31:19.024
Travis Bader: Sure.

01:31:19.104 --> 01:31:22.214
Ian Sim: Um, cop shows as a
kid, firearms are kind of neat.

01:31:22.364 --> 01:31:22.614
Yeah.

01:31:22.664 --> 01:31:28.785
Um, my dad taught me to, Shoot a
pellet gun at a fair in his hometown

01:31:28.785 --> 01:31:31.075
in Scotland, when I was like 12.

01:31:31.165 --> 01:31:33.815
Um, dad knows how to shoot.

01:31:34.345 --> 01:31:35.295
Where'd you learn to shoot?

01:31:35.354 --> 01:31:36.115
Oh, it was in the army.

01:31:37.024 --> 01:31:38.075
My dad was in the army.

01:31:38.075 --> 01:31:39.015
How cool is that?

01:31:39.055 --> 01:31:39.255
Right.

01:31:39.305 --> 01:31:41.914
It was in the British
army, you know, 46, 47.

01:31:41.915 --> 01:31:43.565
But, um,

01:31:46.744 --> 01:31:56.125
you know, there's a lot of thought to go
into, um, personal safety, but what, to

01:31:56.125 --> 01:31:59.664
get back to community safety, if you don't
have one without the other, if you don't

01:31:59.665 --> 01:32:02.025
have personal safety and public safety.

01:32:02.600 --> 01:32:04.950
You don't have effective
enduring community safety.

01:32:05.380 --> 01:32:07.300
We've never had personal
safety in this country.

01:32:08.130 --> 01:32:09.300
It's never talked about.

01:32:09.620 --> 01:32:10.820
It's in the criminal code.

01:32:11.030 --> 01:32:12.330
It always has been.

01:32:12.520 --> 01:32:18.250
It's in the charter, bill of rights, 1960
UN declaration of human rights, 1948.

01:32:18.790 --> 01:32:23.100
It's always been around, but we
don't talk about it in Canada.

01:32:23.110 --> 01:32:27.860
And probably for, uh, uh, you know,
um, a positive reason is that, you

01:32:27.860 --> 01:32:35.080
know, we live in a very, Or have lived
in a very, again, um, stable country.

01:32:36.680 --> 01:32:39.280
Travis Bader: So you think that's the
reason why you think it's because we

01:32:39.300 --> 01:32:42.730
haven't really had to talk about it
because it's, things have been stable.

01:32:42.900 --> 01:32:43.270
Partly,

01:32:43.619 --> 01:32:47.399
Ian Sim: partly the other, the other
reason is, is, and you can really see it

01:32:47.400 --> 01:32:51.980
now there, there's an ideology out there
that, um, you know, and maybe they're

01:32:51.980 --> 01:32:58.380
just using the United States as an excuse,
you can pick many countries or societies

01:32:58.700 --> 01:33:00.630
that have terrible levels of violence.

01:33:01.565 --> 01:33:04.885
We just pick the States because I guess
we get their news, we get their TV.

01:33:05.805 --> 01:33:09.674
And really most Canadians don't know
about firearms laws and crime in

01:33:09.674 --> 01:33:12.184
other countries, but they watch TV.

01:33:12.244 --> 01:33:15.955
They kind of catch, um, the bad news
stories from South of the border.

01:33:16.795 --> 01:33:17.744
So that makes sense.

01:33:17.765 --> 01:33:20.514
But how good is government
at doing anything?

01:33:21.155 --> 01:33:24.285
You know, they're, they're okay,
but, but, you know, you, you don't

01:33:24.285 --> 01:33:26.455
usually look at government and
go, they're, they're rockstars.

01:33:26.485 --> 01:33:26.955
They're killing it.

01:33:27.545 --> 01:33:27.745
Travis Bader: Um,

01:33:27.995 --> 01:33:32.855
Ian Sim: so I don't know, what would you
rate government's, um, record on public

01:33:32.855 --> 01:33:34.605
safety in this country in the last decade?

01:33:34.785 --> 01:33:38.945
Um, pretty low, but let's say
government got it a hundred percent

01:33:38.945 --> 01:33:44.335
right, all levels, municipal,
provincial, federal, not a chance.

01:33:44.955 --> 01:33:50.404
But if we got public safety, a
hundred percent, right, we're

01:33:50.405 --> 01:33:51.655
still missing a full 50%.

01:33:53.520 --> 01:33:58.460
Of what community safety needs for
it to be effective and enduring.

01:33:58.800 --> 01:34:01.000
Travis Bader: I see individual
safety, personal safety.

01:34:01.070 --> 01:34:03.260
Ian Sim: Again, and that's
up to the individual.

01:34:03.710 --> 01:34:06.139
Um, you know, do I think
we should, everyone should

01:34:06.139 --> 01:34:06.970
walk around with a handgun?

01:34:06.970 --> 01:34:07.150
No.

01:34:07.360 --> 01:34:08.919
Constitutional carrier, there's a pistol.

01:34:09.019 --> 01:34:09.349
No.

01:34:09.389 --> 01:34:09.649
Right.

01:34:09.700 --> 01:34:14.960
I mean, most of us in shooting
sports and on farms, um, absolutely

01:34:14.960 --> 01:34:16.580
want government restrictions on

01:34:21.145 --> 01:34:24.045
Travis Bader: Some people just suck
at life and some people shouldn't

01:34:24.075 --> 01:34:30.005
be, shouldn't be, uh, have the
same rights and freedoms as others.

01:34:30.005 --> 01:34:33.034
If they've demonstrated a past
history, the best predictor of future

01:34:33.034 --> 01:34:34.404
performance is past performance.

01:34:34.404 --> 01:34:39.805
So I'm not one of these people who's ever
been, everyone needs a gun in their hand.

01:34:39.805 --> 01:34:41.145
Everyone's got a God given right.

01:34:41.155 --> 01:34:46.564
And I've gotten heat for that in
the past, but, um, and, and just for

01:34:46.564 --> 01:34:47.765
those reasons that I've mentioned.

01:34:48.590 --> 01:34:49.490
Yeah, I agree with you.

01:34:49.790 --> 01:34:50.260
So

01:34:51.940 --> 01:34:54.540
Ian Sim: that part is, and people
say, well, you know, 25 years

01:34:54.540 --> 01:34:57.970
ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago,
our public spaces were safe.

01:34:58.150 --> 01:34:59.170
You were safe out in public.

01:35:00.289 --> 01:35:02.829
For the most part, it's, I get it.

01:35:02.829 --> 01:35:08.159
It's changed considerably in the
last decade plus, you know, it was

01:35:08.179 --> 01:35:12.890
never safe, was behind closed doors.

01:35:12.900 --> 01:35:17.870
So our public spaces were safe, er,

01:35:21.020 --> 01:35:22.100
but it was never.

01:35:22.625 --> 01:35:25.545
Safe for women and girls
behind closed doors.

01:35:26.655 --> 01:35:27.565
And it still isn't.

01:35:28.215 --> 01:35:29.805
And it's gotten worse.

01:35:31.745 --> 01:35:34.475
Epidemic of domestic violence,
intimate partner violence.

01:35:34.475 --> 01:35:38.395
I mean, I kind of study violence,
political violence, terrorism,

01:35:38.874 --> 01:35:41.864
gang violence, intimate partner
violence, gender based, whatever.

01:35:41.864 --> 01:35:42.344
I don't know.

01:35:42.605 --> 01:35:43.735
Violence is violence.

01:35:43.745 --> 01:35:47.355
I mean, there's some differences, but.

01:35:48.825 --> 01:35:50.555
Travis Bader: I was reading
something about COVID and that

01:35:50.555 --> 01:35:55.805
being one of the massive negative
byproducts of the lockdowns were

01:35:56.115 --> 01:35:59.065
increased alcohol consumption
and increased domestic violence.

01:36:01.075 --> 01:36:04.725
Ian Sim: And I heard this from
a few females whose husband's

01:36:04.725 --> 01:36:06.235
retired from policing recently.

01:36:06.935 --> 01:36:09.015
He's home every day.

01:36:10.955 --> 01:36:11.655
I get it.

01:36:11.925 --> 01:36:13.524
And the feeling might be mutual.

01:36:13.524 --> 01:36:15.735
I don't know, but no true.

01:36:15.805 --> 01:36:21.584
Um, so an increase in intimate partner
violence, gender based violence,

01:36:21.614 --> 01:36:25.755
domestic violence, you know, I still
believe we're allowed to choose our

01:36:25.755 --> 01:36:26.925
own words, call it what you want.

01:36:27.075 --> 01:36:27.665
Travis Bader: Hmm.

01:36:28.280 --> 01:36:32.250
Ian Sim: So that's been a
problem and it's still a problem.

01:36:32.340 --> 01:36:33.970
It will always be a problem.

01:36:34.550 --> 01:36:41.700
I mean, ideally we, we, we, um, in the
public safety, uh, profession do a better

01:36:41.700 --> 01:36:46.200
job of prevention, but once violence
has happened, it's really too late.

01:36:46.890 --> 01:36:47.330
It's done.

01:36:48.109 --> 01:36:51.980
Um, If you survive it and the vast
majority of people survive it.

01:36:52.030 --> 01:36:52.390
Sure.

01:36:52.920 --> 01:36:56.380
Um, and the vast majority of
people survive all crimes.

01:36:58.260 --> 01:37:03.309
But again, it's, it's, it's not, it's not
the odds of it happening so much as, as

01:37:04.040 --> 01:37:07.439
stakes, violence changes people's lives.

01:37:07.439 --> 01:37:11.999
Just the thought of violence makes
people very uncomfortable, particularly

01:37:12.020 --> 01:37:13.480
if you've experienced it or seen it.

01:37:14.270 --> 01:37:19.210
So you understand why people get,
you know, Kind of emotional about,

01:37:19.400 --> 01:37:23.369
um, the concept of perhaps the LLDA

01:37:23.370 --> 01:37:23.590
Travis Bader: or

01:37:23.590 --> 01:37:25.950
Ian Sim: civilian ATC
authorization to carry.

01:37:26.390 --> 01:37:33.469
Um, and you'll get the emotions on both
sides because the victims, um, who, you

01:37:33.469 --> 01:37:37.699
know, a female with her two young children
who have moved up in the, up north to get

01:37:37.700 --> 01:37:44.269
away from her, her, her violent partner
down here, she's got some very legitimate

01:37:44.900 --> 01:37:48.010
And emotional, um, stories, right.

01:37:48.060 --> 01:37:49.120
I mean, I've, um,

01:37:52.840 --> 01:37:56.360
I've been, life is not safe.

01:37:59.550 --> 01:38:00.670
Bad things happen.

01:38:02.019 --> 01:38:05.260
Good people every day in this country,

01:38:07.750 --> 01:38:13.640
big cities, small towns, and in the
middle of nowhere, everywhere in between.

01:38:14.250 --> 01:38:14.370
Travis Bader: And,

01:38:14.899 --> 01:38:20.600
Ian Sim: and by bad things, I mean, you
know, Terrible, horrific acts of violence.

01:38:22.170 --> 01:38:22.760
Travis Bader: Um,

01:38:25.020 --> 01:38:25.790
Ian Sim: and it's getting worse.

01:38:26.950 --> 01:38:29.270
Travis Bader: And it's clear the
impact that it has on people, it's

01:38:29.270 --> 01:38:33.680
clear the impact, the exposure to that
violence is having on you right now.

01:38:34.489 --> 01:38:41.979
It's, um, I think that's the impetus for
the conversation for personal safety.

01:38:43.270 --> 01:38:43.700
Ian Sim: Yeah.

01:38:44.180 --> 01:38:45.300
I, when I.

01:38:47.155 --> 01:38:54.775
Um, when I left my last posting
in a four week period, posting

01:38:54.775 --> 01:39:01.585
the last, um, jurisdiction that I
worked, um, we had my team, uh, three

01:39:01.585 --> 01:39:04.355
constables, uh, all on their first day.

01:39:04.685 --> 01:39:05.545
First posting out of

01:39:06.055 --> 01:39:06.405
Travis Bader: depo

01:39:06.475 --> 01:39:11.335
Ian Sim: and myself, we had four suicides
and a homicide in a four week period.

01:39:11.365 --> 01:39:15.114
Now that's an anomaly, but it happens.

01:39:15.995 --> 01:39:19.524
Um, it was my team's turn.

01:39:19.524 --> 01:39:21.034
It's just the way it worked out.

01:39:21.045 --> 01:39:22.895
So, um,

01:39:25.485 --> 01:39:30.935
uh, you know, the focus has
to be on prevention, but you

01:39:30.995 --> 01:39:35.825
can't, or shouldn't deny it.

01:39:36.745 --> 01:39:39.425
So, you know, most people, everyone
has the right to be safe, criminal

01:39:39.425 --> 01:39:40.525
codes as you can, the whole bit.

01:39:41.215 --> 01:39:42.215
Um, I,

01:39:44.515 --> 01:39:52.165
my position is, is you can't deny a
law abiding adult Canadian the right

01:39:54.395 --> 01:39:59.134
for civilian ATC authorization
to carry a handgun.

01:40:00.034 --> 01:40:02.355
Except on a case by case basis.

01:40:04.455 --> 01:40:05.025
Um,

01:40:08.325 --> 01:40:14.015
and, and there are shall issue
permits States in the United States.

01:40:14.035 --> 01:40:15.605
And there are may issue permit States.

01:40:15.875 --> 01:40:19.165
We have, I guess, what's
we call a may issue system.

01:40:19.705 --> 01:40:24.584
You can apply for a civilian
authorization to carry, um, in

01:40:24.584 --> 01:40:26.074
the wilderness to protect life.

01:40:26.575 --> 01:40:29.605
They don't allow it in urban
areas or anywhere else.

01:40:29.965 --> 01:40:31.965
Um, and they may issue you a permit.

01:40:33.320 --> 01:40:39.410
Now, if you apply for a permit
and you are, um, a retired,

01:40:42.080 --> 01:40:48.129
um, police officer, who's got all
this training, um, you won't get it.

01:40:48.950 --> 01:40:52.740
Uh, you could be a, uh, a violence
of, or a victim of domestic violence.

01:40:52.749 --> 01:40:53.330
You won't get it.

01:40:54.049 --> 01:40:56.950
You could be, so it's a
may issue permit system.

01:40:58.020 --> 01:41:01.240
In reality, you're not
going to get a civilian ATC.

01:41:01.310 --> 01:41:01.470
It's a

01:41:01.620 --> 01:41:02.590
Travis Bader: not issue system.

01:41:02.640 --> 01:41:03.660
It's a not issue system.

01:41:03.670 --> 01:41:06.780
Ian Sim: So, and, and, In, in
the United States and in other

01:41:06.780 --> 01:41:10.660
jurisdictions around the world, it's
a, uh, shall issue permit system.

01:41:11.690 --> 01:41:14.300
You apply for civilian ATC.

01:41:15.719 --> 01:41:20.360
If you meet, uh, this list
of requirements, which

01:41:20.360 --> 01:41:22.860
the government determines,

01:41:25.309 --> 01:41:27.190
they shall issue you your permit.

01:41:27.650 --> 01:41:28.300
There's no discretion.

01:41:30.979 --> 01:41:32.369
That's constitutional.

01:41:32.929 --> 01:41:36.400
That would pass, I
think, the charter test.

01:41:37.525 --> 01:41:43.235
The government can make the, um,
can, we all want the government to

01:41:43.235 --> 01:41:45.115
restrict, again, firearms possession.

01:41:46.775 --> 01:41:51.075
End use, but they have
to be relevant standards.

01:41:52.895 --> 01:41:57.105
You can't make a permit 10,
000 cause you want to deter

01:41:57.105 --> 01:41:58.585
people from having their permit.

01:41:58.705 --> 01:41:59.015
Right.

01:41:59.134 --> 01:42:01.724
So they have to be relevant standards
and what's the relevant standard in

01:42:01.725 --> 01:42:03.425
BC with the armoured cars guards do?

01:42:03.634 --> 01:42:03.914
Travis Bader: Sure.

01:42:03.945 --> 01:42:04.265
Ian Sim: That's it.

01:42:04.654 --> 01:42:10.129
We don't need to train everyone
up to be, um, Navy SEAL, JTF,

01:42:10.129 --> 01:42:11.184
Travis Bader: you

01:42:11.185 --> 01:42:14.825
Ian Sim: know, guys from Hereford,
like we don't, it has to be relevant

01:42:14.825 --> 01:42:17.005
standards and the standards will be lower.

01:42:17.285 --> 01:42:20.715
Then what I would have to do as a
peace officer, because the requirements

01:42:20.715 --> 01:42:22.075
and the situations are different.

01:42:22.405 --> 01:42:28.505
We want safe, competent,
ATC permit holders.

01:42:28.824 --> 01:42:33.624
Travis Bader: Have you ever heard
of a civilian being issued an

01:42:33.625 --> 01:42:37.064
ATC for, or experienced that?

01:42:37.075 --> 01:42:38.524
Maybe, cause I've heard of it.

01:42:38.784 --> 01:42:39.384
Way back.

01:42:39.524 --> 01:42:39.944
Right.

01:42:39.944 --> 01:42:44.650
I've heard of, Judges, uh,
working on cases and I'll put

01:42:44.650 --> 01:42:46.600
a big allegedly around here.

01:42:46.690 --> 01:42:51.240
Um, allegedly I've heard of judges
who weren't issued permits, but would

01:42:51.240 --> 01:42:57.960
carry anyways, because, uh, there was
a, uh, a threat on, um, on their life

01:42:57.960 --> 01:43:04.080
and their safety and figured they
would rather live through it than

01:43:04.190 --> 01:43:04.590
Ian Sim: not.

01:43:05.580 --> 01:43:13.220
And, you know, it, it, it, it's too bad
that you've got, um, peace officers that

01:43:13.220 --> 01:43:19.120
carry all day long on duty and aren't
allowed to carry off shift and could

01:43:19.120 --> 01:43:25.119
face, um, internal sanctions, a code
of conduct, uh, probably not criminal

01:43:25.119 --> 01:43:27.249
if you're carrying your service pistol.

01:43:28.085 --> 01:43:29.925
If you were carrying your personal pistol.

01:43:30.065 --> 01:43:31.185
Probably not criminal again.

01:43:31.265 --> 01:43:31.495
I mean.

01:43:31.505 --> 01:43:32.185
Maybe not.

01:43:32.435 --> 01:43:33.815
Travis Bader: We've seen examples of that.

01:43:33.815 --> 01:43:34.025
So,

01:43:34.565 --> 01:43:36.265
Ian Sim: but it's too bad.

01:43:36.325 --> 01:43:36.455
Right.

01:43:36.465 --> 01:43:38.225
Um, that, that, that's where we're at.

01:43:38.245 --> 01:43:45.275
And as, um, community safety
deteriorates worldwide, um, and,

01:43:45.454 --> 01:43:48.944
and we in, in traditional police
emergency response, can't really

01:43:48.944 --> 01:43:50.375
address what I call that death gap.

01:43:51.825 --> 01:43:52.985
Now's the time.

01:43:53.065 --> 01:43:56.694
Now it still would have been
the right time 25 years ago.

01:43:56.785 --> 01:43:56.805
Travis Bader: Um,

01:44:01.695 --> 01:44:06.035
Ian Sim: I think quick stats, United
States defensive gun uses are at 1.

01:44:06.065 --> 01:44:06.775
6 million.

01:44:07.495 --> 01:44:08.945
The number's probably a bit low.

01:44:10.135 --> 01:44:12.575
Murders, 19, 000 something.

01:44:12.575 --> 01:44:13.505
Let's just bump it up.

01:44:13.584 --> 01:44:18.645
So 20, 000, um, murders,
um, not including suicides.

01:44:19.015 --> 01:44:21.725
Travis Bader: So murder would be
justifiable and not justifiable

01:44:21.745 --> 01:44:23.045
that just, would that be homicide?

01:44:23.075 --> 01:44:23.704
Or would that be.

01:44:23.705 --> 01:44:24.000
Homicide.

01:44:24.000 --> 01:44:24.294
Okay.

01:44:24.294 --> 01:44:24.884
So 20,

01:44:24.885 --> 01:44:26.614
Ian Sim: 000 homicides, 1.

01:44:26.615 --> 01:44:28.545
6 million defensive gun uses.

01:44:29.865 --> 01:44:31.644
Homicides are probably a bit high, 1.

01:44:31.645 --> 01:44:37.055
6 million defensive gun uses DGU, um,
probably a bit low for obvious reasons.

01:44:37.155 --> 01:44:37.465
Travis Bader: Great.

01:44:37.754 --> 01:44:43.145
Ian Sim: Um, 87 percent plus of those
defensive gun uses, the firearms never.

01:44:43.205 --> 01:44:44.804
Right.

01:44:45.065 --> 01:44:45.575
Right.

01:44:46.565 --> 01:44:52.635
Firearms, um, have a particularly
effective, coercive effect.

01:44:53.975 --> 01:44:59.865
They, um, they incentivize people
to go in the opposite direction,

01:45:01.135 --> 01:45:07.385
stop what they're doing, surrender,
and In the vast majority of cases.

01:45:07.475 --> 01:45:10.595
Travis Bader: Stop, regroup, choose
a more desirable course of action.

01:45:10.665 --> 01:45:15.725
Ian Sim: And occasionally, um, buddy
pushes it and it's on and, and they get

01:45:15.725 --> 01:45:17.344
themselves shot or whatever happens.

01:45:17.344 --> 01:45:17.484
Right.

01:45:17.485 --> 01:45:18.624
So, um,

01:45:21.744 --> 01:45:24.684
what is, what is the most, so right
now we've got the fire and freeze.

01:45:25.074 --> 01:45:29.535
Um, we used to have the reasons for
shooting in Canada were hunting,

01:45:31.085 --> 01:45:32.885
shooting sports and collecting.

01:45:32.885 --> 01:45:37.370
Um, Um, the government has
maintained that to protect life

01:45:38.050 --> 01:45:39.600
is not a reason to own a firearm.

01:45:39.600 --> 01:45:42.260
If you say that when you're getting
your possession and acquisition

01:45:42.260 --> 01:45:43.860
license, you'll be denied the whole bit.

01:45:44.370 --> 01:45:45.190
Absolute nonsense.

01:45:45.200 --> 01:45:45.520
Right.

01:45:45.610 --> 01:45:49.759
It's like saying, you know, the only
time you can get a permit to have

01:45:49.760 --> 01:45:52.129
sex is to make babies, but that's it.

01:45:52.370 --> 01:45:52.600
Right.

01:45:52.670 --> 01:45:55.420
We're all going to cross our fingers
behind our back and say, yep, it's only

01:45:55.420 --> 01:45:58.630
for, you know, and it's just madness.

01:45:58.630 --> 01:46:03.499
So that alone is, is, is
a charter breach, right?

01:46:03.520 --> 01:46:07.290
Like section seven is the most,
the most important reason to own

01:46:07.290 --> 01:46:09.360
a firearm is to protect life.

01:46:09.810 --> 01:46:15.789
Number one, hunting second,
sports shooting third, collecting.

01:46:16.049 --> 01:46:16.389
Travis Bader: Sure.

01:46:17.059 --> 01:46:17.669
Ian Sim: That's it.

01:46:18.030 --> 01:46:21.020
And, and we need to say that.

01:46:22.370 --> 01:46:27.790
And it doesn't mean we're, uh,
it's, it's just stating the

01:46:28.000 --> 01:46:28.600
Travis Bader: obvious.

01:46:29.530 --> 01:46:30.740
Cause people will do it.

01:46:31.250 --> 01:46:34.360
They'll get a firearm for protection
of life, but they play the song

01:46:34.360 --> 01:46:36.539
and dance game of, Oh no, it's
cause I want to collect her.

01:46:36.540 --> 01:46:37.180
It's no, no.

01:46:37.189 --> 01:46:38.299
Cause I'm going to be a sports shooter.

01:46:38.560 --> 01:46:38.949
Oh, okay.

01:46:38.950 --> 01:46:40.040
What club do you belong to?

01:46:40.040 --> 01:46:40.340
Right.

01:46:40.340 --> 01:46:41.380
What range do you belong to?

01:46:41.960 --> 01:46:44.840
Oh, I got to show my range
membership or my club membership.

01:46:44.840 --> 01:46:47.870
Otherwise they're not going to approve
my license or they're not going to prove

01:46:47.970 --> 01:46:50.079
the transfer of firearm into my name.

01:46:50.080 --> 01:46:50.420
Okay.

01:46:50.745 --> 01:46:52.015
Oh, here's the club I belong to.

01:46:52.185 --> 01:46:53.435
They've never gone there once.

01:46:53.525 --> 01:46:54.795
Tell them what they want to hear.

01:46:54.865 --> 01:46:55.115
Right.

01:46:55.135 --> 01:46:55.505
Ian Sim: You're good.

01:46:55.545 --> 01:46:59.685
It's like filling any form out,
make it as easy as possible.

01:46:59.685 --> 01:47:04.735
Now, obviously I recommend everyone
tell the truth on, on government forms.

01:47:04.765 --> 01:47:05.165
Travis Bader: Yes.

01:47:05.194 --> 01:47:07.695
Ian Sim: But I mean, you know,
you do an applications for jobs

01:47:07.695 --> 01:47:08.745
or any number of things, right?

01:47:09.224 --> 01:47:12.434
Make it as easy as possible for them.

01:47:12.695 --> 01:47:13.855
To understand it

01:47:14.195 --> 01:47:14.305
Travis Bader: and

01:47:14.435 --> 01:47:15.085
Ian Sim: say, yes.

01:47:15.685 --> 01:47:18.415
So I'm not advocating anyone lying
on their forms, but I know out of

01:47:18.485 --> 01:47:23.345
every firearms owner, I know to
protect life is not for the most time.

01:47:23.980 --> 01:47:27.050
Uh, for most of them is not the
primary reason they own that farm.

01:47:27.800 --> 01:47:28.710
For some it is.

01:47:28.770 --> 01:47:29.080
Sure.

01:47:29.500 --> 01:47:35.950
But for the majority, it's not, but
it's a close second for most of them.

01:47:36.029 --> 01:47:49.299
They all know that in a, um, civil
strife, um, natural disaster, that,

01:47:52.480 --> 01:47:57.900
that the firearm is part of
emergency safety equipment, like

01:47:57.900 --> 01:48:01.485
food, Like water, fuel for your car.

01:48:01.485 --> 01:48:06.005
Like it's just a, a firearm is emergency
safety equipment, it's other things.

01:48:06.005 --> 01:48:08.105
But to me, that's what it is first.

01:48:08.855 --> 01:48:10.934
It's a reactive defensive tool.

01:48:12.275 --> 01:48:15.784
And, you know, you know, so
the government's going to say,

01:48:15.794 --> 01:48:18.934
no, handgun is, has no use.

01:48:19.044 --> 01:48:21.285
Well, firearms have no
use to protect life.

01:48:21.545 --> 01:48:22.165
Really?

01:48:22.835 --> 01:48:28.589
What does every country on the planet
issue its government officials to do?

01:48:29.130 --> 01:48:34.530
For, to protect life, handguns,
particularly handguns.

01:48:34.770 --> 01:48:35.050
Sure.

01:48:35.070 --> 01:48:37.130
Because you can have it
with you, it's concealable.

01:48:37.610 --> 01:48:37.970
So,

01:48:40.590 --> 01:48:43.400
you know, it's, it's, it's, it's
not just a bit of a stretch.

01:48:43.760 --> 01:48:45.739
It's, it's absolutely ridiculous.

01:48:46.270 --> 01:48:49.650
It makes no sense when they come on
and say, Oh yeah, there's, there's

01:48:49.650 --> 01:48:51.190
no, uh, handguns have no purpose.

01:48:51.600 --> 01:48:54.700
They're the most effective tool
on the planet to protect life,

01:48:55.160 --> 01:49:02.589
particularly for those who are,
uh, getting on in years, have some

01:49:02.609 --> 01:49:04.899
physical limitations and challenges.

01:49:06.490 --> 01:49:07.410
Females?

01:49:09.200 --> 01:49:09.950
Travis Bader: What's that saying?

01:49:10.360 --> 01:49:12.870
God made man, Sam Colt made men equal.

01:49:13.220 --> 01:49:13.600
Right.

01:49:14.040 --> 01:49:20.480
Ian Sim: I mean, most of, most Canadians
know a couple where the male outweighs

01:49:20.480 --> 01:49:23.149
the female by 100 pounds or more.

01:49:24.759 --> 01:49:26.140
She's 130, he's 230.

01:49:29.240 --> 01:49:32.570
I, I follow domestic violence.

01:49:32.790 --> 01:49:39.469
Uh, I, like I said, in, in April, I was
at a homicide and it was a domestic.

01:49:39.530 --> 01:49:39.870
Travis Bader: Hmm.

01:49:40.245 --> 01:49:40.985
Ian Sim: Um,

01:49:43.015 --> 01:49:47.825
men may use firearms to kill women

01:49:50.395 --> 01:49:55.355
on top of every other tool that
they use, but no man needs a

01:49:55.355 --> 01:49:59.195
firearm to kill a woman for the
most part, for the most part, right?

01:50:00.384 --> 01:50:06.884
Uh, some, some choose a firearm to
kill a female, but it's the females.

01:50:07.720 --> 01:50:12.570
Uh, because of, of the disparity of size
and strength, uh, and, and just, we've

01:50:12.570 --> 01:50:14.170
got way more testosterone than they do.

01:50:14.620 --> 01:50:16.269
Um, we're, we're more aggressive.

01:50:16.310 --> 01:50:16.859
We just are.

01:50:16.859 --> 01:50:17.930
It's just the species.

01:50:17.940 --> 01:50:24.639
So, um, it's not, it's not men
that suffer, um, uh, the most.

01:50:25.130 --> 01:50:28.140
Having a handgun freeze, it it's women.

01:50:29.080 --> 01:50:33.060
Now missing and murdered indigenous
women and girls, domestic violence,

01:50:33.060 --> 01:50:37.229
intimate partner violence,
the women are suffering here.

01:50:38.520 --> 01:50:43.300
Um, the majority of women won't own
firearms to protect themselves in Canada,

01:50:43.310 --> 01:50:46.850
just like the majority of firearms don't
own firearms to protect themselves.

01:50:46.950 --> 01:50:47.330
Travis Bader: Right.

01:50:47.330 --> 01:50:50.240
Ian Sim: Um, But some do, and some could.

01:50:51.530 --> 01:50:56.210
Travis Bader: I think normalizing the,
why you're getting the firearm with

01:50:56.210 --> 01:51:00.429
the firearms program on the application
is a good first step for people.

01:51:00.470 --> 01:51:05.599
And the number of times I've dealt
with the firearms program and they

01:51:05.600 --> 01:51:10.010
say, don't tell me that, tell me this,
like, for example, I got a gun here.

01:51:10.020 --> 01:51:11.020
I need to register, right?

01:51:11.650 --> 01:51:13.630
You've got the system,
you've got these rules.

01:51:13.640 --> 01:51:15.050
We've got to make sure it's registered up.

01:51:15.400 --> 01:51:16.200
Where'd you get the gun?

01:51:16.550 --> 01:51:19.700
Oh, we got it from ABCD,
whatever the situation might be.

01:51:20.150 --> 01:51:21.820
Just, just tell me you
found it in your attic.

01:51:21.820 --> 01:51:24.340
They say, no, I'm not
going to tell you that.

01:51:24.630 --> 01:51:27.829
Well, tell me this, look at
Travis wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

01:51:27.829 --> 01:51:30.739
I'm doing this over the phone, but just
tell me this, it'll go through easier.

01:51:30.739 --> 01:51:33.950
I'm like, I'm not going to lie to you
about where I got this thing from.

01:51:34.090 --> 01:51:34.440
Right.

01:51:35.059 --> 01:51:37.090
I don't want to be playing that game.

01:51:37.690 --> 01:51:42.290
And eventually it'll go through,
but I, I've lost count of the number

01:51:42.290 --> 01:51:45.310
of times that I've been told to
say certain things, cause it'll

01:51:45.310 --> 01:51:47.530
make their job easier to approve.

01:51:47.679 --> 01:51:48.559
They just want to help you.

01:51:48.559 --> 01:51:53.329
They're being a good person, but it
doesn't, it doesn't help everybody

01:51:53.329 --> 01:51:57.070
else if we're not normalizing a
process, which should be normal.

01:51:57.189 --> 01:52:01.300
Ian Sim: So talking about rights,
um, You know, I'll have this

01:52:01.300 --> 01:52:03.820
discussion with some of the guys
from Gunsight, Northern Arizona.

01:52:04.080 --> 01:52:04.400
Right.

01:52:04.410 --> 01:52:07.160
I mean, you know, a golf course
is the deliberate and willful

01:52:07.170 --> 01:52:08.310
misuse of a rifle range.

01:52:08.660 --> 01:52:12.710
Well, maybe not in Southern Arizona,
but Northern Arizona, maybe.

01:52:13.090 --> 01:52:16.280
Um, and they're like, ah,
rights this, rights that, left

01:52:16.280 --> 01:52:17.540
wing, socialist, rah, rah, rah.

01:52:17.540 --> 01:52:18.999
And I go, whoa.

01:52:19.775 --> 01:52:21.415
Rights are for everyone.

01:52:22.805 --> 01:52:27.665
Um, if you haven't figured out how
to articulate your rights, that's

01:52:27.705 --> 01:52:29.044
not my problem, that's yours.

01:52:29.625 --> 01:52:36.605
Um, I'm sure that there is a hierarchy
of rights, I haven't really researched

01:52:36.605 --> 01:52:41.149
it or studied it or whatever, but pretty
sure security of person is at the top.

01:52:42.090 --> 01:52:46.300
Um, and you know, when I asked the gun
site, some of the crew and who carried

01:52:46.300 --> 01:52:48.710
down the States, like, okay, well,
if you could have only your choice,

01:52:48.740 --> 01:52:51.990
is it your second amendment choice
or is it her, uh, right to choose?

01:52:54.729 --> 01:52:57.299
Pick one, right.

01:52:58.060 --> 01:53:01.829
They all security of their person.

01:53:02.740 --> 01:53:04.040
And I'm like, so you could live with that.

01:53:04.049 --> 01:53:07.320
And they're like, and you know, the
conversation gets heated, I get.

01:53:07.330 --> 01:53:07.600
Travis Bader: Sure.

01:53:07.600 --> 01:53:07.840
Yeah.

01:53:07.840 --> 01:53:08.980
It can be really emotional.

01:53:09.400 --> 01:53:10.400
Ian Sim: And that's okay.

01:53:10.450 --> 01:53:13.290
Like we should be having
these discussions.

01:53:13.390 --> 01:53:17.065
I mean, ideally, You know, there's,
there's certain people that

01:53:17.065 --> 01:53:18.505
shouldn't be at the table, right?

01:53:18.535 --> 01:53:26.785
If, if anxiety and, and personal,
um, health issues, it's hard to

01:53:26.795 --> 01:53:32.195
think rationally or, or offer, um,
particularly positive contribution.

01:53:32.444 --> 01:53:32.704
Right.

01:53:33.705 --> 01:53:35.164
We can all agree on public safety.

01:53:35.774 --> 01:53:38.185
Um, again, what I call community safety.

01:53:38.505 --> 01:53:40.505
And if you need both,

01:53:41.085 --> 01:53:41.205
Travis Bader: you

01:53:41.205 --> 01:53:43.985
Ian Sim: need public safety,
which is the role of government,

01:53:44.315 --> 01:53:47.575
and they don't do that good a job
and we have our own limitations.

01:53:48.480 --> 01:53:54.580
Um, and team Canada, which is that
ball cap there, that's the intelligence

01:53:54.580 --> 01:53:59.520
services, the military, it's the doctors,
the nurses, the paramedics, the police,

01:54:00.359 --> 01:54:03.960
corrections, like it's the courts,
it's, it's team Canada is a big team.

01:54:04.750 --> 01:54:12.449
Um, but we're, most of us are old
conservative bureaucracies, which aren't

01:54:12.580 --> 01:54:15.510
the most efficient at a lot of things.

01:54:15.850 --> 01:54:21.325
So we need the personal safety
and the And that's a right.

01:54:21.405 --> 01:54:23.645
The government, the government
doesn't have to approve it.

01:54:24.655 --> 01:54:26.305
Canadians just have to

01:54:29.465 --> 01:54:29.975
accept it.

01:54:30.865 --> 01:54:31.545
They have to do it.

01:54:31.765 --> 01:54:32.355
They have to take it.

01:54:32.355 --> 01:54:32.805
They have to do it.

01:54:32.965 --> 01:54:34.424
Rights aren't like oxygen.

01:54:34.424 --> 01:54:36.645
You know, we don't, I'm not
going to walk out of here and

01:54:36.655 --> 01:54:38.375
be surrounded by my rights.

01:54:38.435 --> 01:54:38.815
Travis Bader: Right.

01:54:39.315 --> 01:54:43.175
Ian Sim: Rights need to be maintained.

01:54:44.060 --> 01:54:45.680
They need to be discussed.

01:54:45.720 --> 01:54:49.270
They need to be kind of on the shelf
in a prominent location all the time.

01:54:49.440 --> 01:54:57.650
You have to fight for your rights and I'm
not some right wing or left wing, like

01:54:57.910 --> 01:55:01.720
I'm just, you know, um, we have rights.

01:55:02.965 --> 01:55:05.055
Charter's the Supreme law of Canada.

01:55:05.655 --> 01:55:06.535
They're not going away.

01:55:06.755 --> 01:55:08.035
The West kind of believes in rights.

01:55:08.035 --> 01:55:08.385
I get it.

01:55:08.395 --> 01:55:09.895
There's some cultures
and religions that don't.

01:55:10.255 --> 01:55:10.965
Oh, well, it's not us.

01:55:11.825 --> 01:55:16.244
Our Supreme court's going to make
decisions on a charter breach, a

01:55:16.245 --> 01:55:22.044
roadside or at a search warrant
or whatever, based on our charter

01:55:22.094 --> 01:55:27.505
and our concept of rights and our
English common law and our history.

01:55:28.085 --> 01:55:28.395
Right.

01:55:28.435 --> 01:55:33.395
And most people that I talked
to, um, Love Canada for that.

01:55:33.425 --> 01:55:34.205
Love the West.

01:55:35.435 --> 01:55:37.405
Uh, a lot of the Southern Hemisphere
is trying to get to Europe.

01:55:38.715 --> 01:55:42.665
You know, colonial racist Europe, they're
risking their lives and their family

01:55:42.665 --> 01:55:49.675
lives to get there because of rights,
economic opportunities too, I get it.

01:55:49.735 --> 01:55:50.025
Sure.

01:55:50.245 --> 01:55:56.845
But, um, you know, again, when I, when I
meet people from all over the world, UBC,

01:55:56.845 --> 01:56:02.825
and then now where I'm working currently,
um, they're like, you guys are rock stars.

01:56:03.345 --> 01:56:04.495
You guys are awesome.

01:56:04.985 --> 01:56:07.825
And, um, you know, I would see
some of the students for their

01:56:07.825 --> 01:56:09.535
whole four year career, right.

01:56:09.555 --> 01:56:12.595
And they'd pop by the office
when they were going back to.

01:56:12.930 --> 01:56:16.150
Zimbabwe or wherever they're
going, you know, give you a wave.

01:56:16.150 --> 01:56:16.620
Thank you.

01:56:16.700 --> 01:56:17.100
Thank you.

01:56:17.110 --> 01:56:19.420
Like, it's not like that back home.

01:56:20.500 --> 01:56:22.179
So that's a lovely feeling.

01:56:22.920 --> 01:56:25.220
Frustrated in my line of work, for sure.

01:56:25.560 --> 01:56:35.720
Um, um, the bucket can fill up
after 25 years and, um, I kind

01:56:35.720 --> 01:56:38.690
of dealt with that recently.

01:56:38.720 --> 01:56:39.330
Um.

01:56:39.945 --> 01:56:44.985
You know, I'm, I'm the, I was the peer to
peer counselor at my office, looking at my

01:56:44.985 --> 01:56:49.894
young teammates, going to these horrific
calls, checking in, how you doing?

01:56:50.345 --> 01:56:54.924
Um, but looking as well as
listening to their answers,

01:56:55.255 --> 01:56:56.665
because sometimes they don't match.

01:56:57.204 --> 01:57:01.874
Um, you know, and I've got, I've
got, I can refer them to where.

01:57:02.735 --> 01:57:06.635
They might need to call, um,
go see someone the whole bit.

01:57:07.895 --> 01:57:12.605
And then, uh, I noticed some stuff
at work one, one morning particular.

01:57:13.315 --> 01:57:17.734
Um, I got in my supervisor's vehicle.

01:57:17.785 --> 01:57:20.375
Uh, we went for coffee, went, parked it.

01:57:20.455 --> 01:57:24.684
Um, and then my buddy left country
music on in the, in the truck.

01:57:24.724 --> 01:57:26.934
I'm like, not your

01:57:27.015 --> 01:57:27.305
Travis Bader: thing.

01:57:27.575 --> 01:57:28.445
Ian Sim: I left it on.

01:57:28.515 --> 01:57:28.825
Yeah.

01:57:28.890 --> 01:57:30.610
And, and, and, you know, it was okay.

01:57:30.650 --> 01:57:35.930
Um, and this song came on and I find
myself bawling by myself, having

01:57:35.930 --> 01:57:44.500
had coffee, good sleep, like, and
I'm like, what just happened there?

01:57:44.659 --> 01:57:46.290
No idea what was going on.

01:57:47.100 --> 01:57:49.459
Just like, that's not normal.

01:57:50.309 --> 01:57:50.569
Travis Bader: Cause.

01:57:51.210 --> 01:57:53.209
No, that is probably normal.

01:57:53.219 --> 01:57:54.449
That is normal for someone who's.

01:57:55.225 --> 01:57:59.995
Same life experiences, same
background, that experience is normal.

01:57:59.995 --> 01:58:04.164
And I think the problem that people
have is saying the feeling that it's

01:58:04.175 --> 01:58:09.885
not normal, maybe feeling ashamed or
whatever it might be, but it's not the

01:58:09.885 --> 01:58:13.595
normal that you want at the moment,
but it's a normal that you have.

01:58:14.155 --> 01:58:18.515
And it's probably a real good
indicator that there's, there's

01:58:18.525 --> 01:58:19.805
some steps that need to be taken.

01:58:20.675 --> 01:58:25.545
Ian Sim: A normal reaction to some
very abnormal, sad, sadly, those,

01:58:25.565 --> 01:58:27.245
those incidents aren't abnormal.

01:58:27.540 --> 01:58:29.160
They happen every day to
people in this country.

01:58:30.090 --> 01:58:33.840
But, you know, my nickname with
some of my buddies is Spock.

01:58:33.840 --> 01:58:39.470
I don't do emotion, I'm demonstrative,
and I'm like, that's not normal for me.

01:58:39.519 --> 01:58:42.320
Like, where did that come from?

01:58:42.770 --> 01:58:43.480
So I'm like, Hmm.

01:58:43.700 --> 01:58:47.050
So I, I mean, I'm like,
okay, that's weird.

01:58:47.159 --> 01:58:47.679
Let's just.

01:58:48.305 --> 01:58:52.135
You know, and what, what it turned out to
be is, is we've had, we had a number of

01:58:52.135 --> 01:58:56.345
fatalities and, and there's a lot of kids
obviously at university and, and, and,

01:58:56.345 --> 01:59:00.125
you know, we all have, our, our bucket
sometimes is small, sometimes it's big, it

01:59:00.125 --> 01:59:03.745
can, it can overflow sooner than others.

01:59:04.205 --> 01:59:06.104
We've all got different levels
of resiliency, the whole

01:59:06.105 --> 01:59:07.785
bit, and I was pretty good.

01:59:08.815 --> 01:59:12.615
You know, 22 years, I'm like, oh, okay.

01:59:12.675 --> 01:59:16.235
I'm doing fine until I wasn't right.

01:59:16.285 --> 01:59:21.674
And so, you know, I
kinda, okay, that's weird.

01:59:21.775 --> 01:59:23.045
Not sure what happened there.

01:59:23.355 --> 01:59:27.794
Let's just put it on the back
burner and see what's going on.

01:59:27.795 --> 01:59:27.984
Right.

01:59:27.984 --> 01:59:31.175
And then, um, one or
two other small things.

01:59:31.175 --> 01:59:35.775
And you're like, and then, you know,
yeah, you feel a tap on your shoulder

01:59:36.665 --> 01:59:43.685
and you turn around and, and there's that
big black hooded figure with the scythe.

01:59:43.685 --> 01:59:43.894
Right.

01:59:43.895 --> 01:59:44.375
And you're like.

01:59:46.130 --> 01:59:48.590
I know you, right.

01:59:48.940 --> 01:59:51.780
And you're like, me?

01:59:54.460 --> 01:59:56.290
Like, I know who you are.

01:59:56.300 --> 01:59:56.640
Yeah.

01:59:57.780 --> 02:00:01.700
You know, I was looking for it
in my team, but there are three,

02:00:01.700 --> 02:00:04.229
four, five years in, I'm 25 years.

02:00:04.229 --> 02:00:10.040
And so I got more stuff in my
bucket and maybe, maybe a bit of

02:00:10.059 --> 02:00:14.189
age, you know, nostalgic as we age.

02:00:14.649 --> 02:00:20.200
Um, so I'm like, okay, I know who you
are now and I know what's going on now.

02:00:21.335 --> 02:00:29.635
Um, and I know right now you're kind
of running the show, but now that I've

02:00:29.635 --> 02:00:35.935
recognized what's happening, operational
stress, injury, PTSD, um, injuries,

02:00:38.265 --> 02:00:45.615
my goal is to manage you and then let's
get you out of the picture altogether.

02:00:46.594 --> 02:00:52.215
So it can be, if you don't recognize
it early, it can be, I mean,

02:00:52.225 --> 02:00:55.975
recognizing it early is Obviously
the best with anything, right.

02:00:56.075 --> 02:00:58.785
Um, you're not feeling
well physically, mentally.

02:00:59.765 --> 02:01:01.495
So recognizing it early was good.

02:01:02.325 --> 02:01:06.294
Uh, knowing what to do as
the peer to peer counsellor.

02:01:06.485 --> 02:01:07.215
Excellent.

02:01:07.634 --> 02:01:08.675
That's helpful, isn't it?

02:01:09.255 --> 02:01:09.995
So, and then,

02:01:10.085 --> 02:01:11.375
Travis Bader: and then just getting on it.

02:01:12.065 --> 02:01:17.465
Well, if you remember, Spock
didn't lack emotion, Spock was

02:01:17.475 --> 02:01:20.675
just highly, um, contained.

02:01:20.785 --> 02:01:21.435
Disciplined.

02:01:21.795 --> 02:01:25.855
He was disciplined, highly contained
and very logical in his approach.

02:01:27.035 --> 02:01:32.795
But didn't Spock also have, he was
half Vulcan, half human, if I remember

02:01:32.815 --> 02:01:36.665
something right, or, but I do know
that Spock actually did have emotion.

02:01:36.745 --> 02:01:40.435
Cause I remember that, that eventually
came out at some point and the real

02:01:40.525 --> 02:01:44.655
Trekkies, Trekkers, whatever, are probably
going to, uh, eat me alive for that one.

02:01:44.655 --> 02:01:44.945
But.

02:01:45.315 --> 02:01:46.275
Ian Sim: I didn't watch it too much.

02:01:46.275 --> 02:01:47.425
I kind of watch it a bit, but.

02:01:47.425 --> 02:01:48.124
I'm just going

02:01:48.124 --> 02:01:49.288
Travis Bader: back to my memory bag.

02:01:49.288 --> 02:01:50.705
So I didn't watch it at all.

02:01:50.835 --> 02:01:51.115
Ian Sim: Right.

02:01:51.355 --> 02:01:51.645
Travis Bader: Yeah.

02:01:51.875 --> 02:01:55.565
Ian Sim: So, I mean, that's just a
nickname I got because I'm, I'm again,

02:01:55.755 --> 02:01:59.685
and you know, I did that psychological
test, uh, for this human source

02:01:59.785 --> 02:02:01.025
development course we were doing.

02:02:01.025 --> 02:02:05.085
And, and I came across, um, I,
I scored what was a strong SI,

02:02:05.085 --> 02:02:12.774
so steady and influential, um,
you know, not, not just even

02:02:13.525 --> 02:02:13.885
Travis Bader: keeled,

02:02:14.025 --> 02:02:15.595
Ian Sim: keep calm, carry on.

02:02:16.065 --> 02:02:21.175
So, um, it's been a bit of a
interesting couple of years.

02:02:21.545 --> 02:02:27.395
Um, My psychologist gave me a good
book, uh, which is a fantastic book.

02:02:27.395 --> 02:02:29.355
If you're just a student of human nature.

02:02:29.415 --> 02:02:30.165
What's the book called?

02:02:30.395 --> 02:02:30.975
I don't know.

02:02:31.035 --> 02:02:35.335
I can't remember it, but I've got it
at home and it's on my coffee table.

02:02:35.835 --> 02:02:39.324
Um, and it was like, and it
was just from, from, uh, from a

02:02:39.384 --> 02:02:44.224
policing perspective, from a human
interest, it was just so good.

02:02:44.505 --> 02:02:51.420
Um, and yeah, we, we, I, I've thrown in
a few, um, cause I'm, I was always pretty

02:02:51.420 --> 02:02:54.750
good at self care, single guy, no kids.

02:02:54.800 --> 02:02:55.340
I live alone.

02:02:55.340 --> 02:02:57.830
My, my family moved away
when I was in high school.

02:02:58.270 --> 02:03:02.700
Um, and just, I got a few of them
in Halifax, but I'm pretty good

02:03:02.700 --> 02:03:04.149
at self care cause it's only me.

02:03:05.719 --> 02:03:07.769
Um, I didn't really miss anything.

02:03:07.780 --> 02:03:09.229
In fact, I kind of caught it quickly.

02:03:09.825 --> 02:03:13.345
I just didn't know exactly right away
what was going on, um, but it was on

02:03:13.345 --> 02:03:19.864
it pretty quick and yeah, um, positive
coping strategies are way better

02:03:19.865 --> 02:03:22.265
than the maladaptive coping strategy.

02:03:22.645 --> 02:03:22.985
Travis Bader: Yeah.

02:03:22.985 --> 02:03:28.174
And, uh, maybe I'm going out on a limb
here, but the fact that you reached out

02:03:28.215 --> 02:03:32.584
and you want to help other people with
their own personal safety seems to be a

02:03:32.584 --> 02:03:38.925
strong, uh, strategy where you can, you
Positively affect others moving forward.

02:03:39.625 --> 02:03:41.945
Ian Sim: Safety takes many forms.

02:03:42.725 --> 02:03:43.345
Um,

02:03:46.475 --> 02:03:49.685
we're already, so when I said I
wanted to live my life armed, you

02:03:49.685 --> 02:03:52.484
know, when, when the kids asked me,
why did you want to become a cop?

02:03:52.524 --> 02:03:52.774
Right.

02:03:53.095 --> 02:03:57.295
So you need a job with no math, wanted
to live my life armed, but really,

02:03:57.364 --> 02:04:03.785
um, I'm just a believer in rule of
law, fair play, mean people suck.

02:04:04.730 --> 02:04:06.340
You know, um, that's it.

02:04:06.420 --> 02:04:13.520
Um, life as hard enough as it is,
uh, life can be horrific, um, way

02:04:13.520 --> 02:04:14.670
more than I think the public know.

02:04:14.860 --> 02:04:14.960
Right.

02:04:15.180 --> 02:04:20.320
Like, I mean, I, I used to read,
I think it was a bi weekly sex

02:04:20.320 --> 02:04:24.739
assault report of all the sex
assaults, reported sex assaults in

02:04:24.739 --> 02:04:26.190
the lower mainland every two weeks.

02:04:27.480 --> 02:04:31.090
I just stopped reading them because it
was so long, like there were so many.

02:04:31.200 --> 02:04:32.106
Travis Bader: That's
just the reported ones.

02:04:32.106 --> 02:04:32.690
And it's only

02:04:32.980 --> 02:04:36.640
Ian Sim: three, four, 5 percent of
all of them that are even reported.

02:04:36.640 --> 02:04:36.774
Right.

02:04:36.965 --> 02:04:42.515
So I'm like, and I used to get, I used
to get, um, uh, read it, this Mexican

02:04:42.515 --> 02:04:44.455
intelligence report from Mexico too.

02:04:44.455 --> 02:04:46.755
And I'm just like, Oh,
I'm full of pictures.

02:04:46.755 --> 02:04:47.215
I'm like, no, no, no.

02:04:47.425 --> 02:04:49.355
I'm just, I know what's going on.

02:04:49.544 --> 02:04:49.764
Right.

02:04:49.805 --> 02:04:54.895
Um, but we're already armed, right.

02:04:55.115 --> 02:04:59.345
Um, we got eyes and ears
and we've got instinct.

02:04:59.865 --> 02:05:04.525
So that will carry you if
you're using those most

02:05:06.805 --> 02:05:09.575
of the way through life,
but not all the way.

02:05:09.975 --> 02:05:10.325
Right.

02:05:10.395 --> 02:05:16.630
Um, You know, if, if, if, if, if
you ignore your eyes and your ears.

02:05:17.395 --> 02:05:21.345
In your spidey sense, your intuition,
that gut feeling, or just straight

02:05:21.345 --> 02:05:22.525
up, there's something wrong here.

02:05:24.045 --> 02:05:28.925
The fact that you've got eyes, ears,
cell phone, uh, or, or emergency

02:05:28.925 --> 02:05:30.074
safety equipment on your person.

02:05:30.175 --> 02:05:31.814
I mean, it's PPE, right?

02:05:31.815 --> 02:05:32.835
Personal protective equipment.

02:05:33.085 --> 02:05:35.335
Um, but you have to be
paying attention, right?

02:05:35.444 --> 02:05:38.675
So you have to be kind of,
there's a number of prerequisites.

02:05:38.955 --> 02:05:40.755
You said the before, during and the after.

02:05:40.895 --> 02:05:43.655
And again, that's what this book,
Deadly Force really goes into.

02:05:44.065 --> 02:05:48.880
It's, it's not really, Tactics or
techniques, it's things to think about

02:05:48.880 --> 02:05:52.920
beforehand, um, during, and there's
a number of case studies that a lot

02:05:52.920 --> 02:05:58.110
of people recognize from US media
and then after, which is, is because.

02:05:58.120 --> 02:05:58.710
Massive.

02:05:58.889 --> 02:06:01.850
You know, the outfit, the organization
you work for, I'll give you a lawyer.

02:06:02.200 --> 02:06:02.660
Sure.

02:06:04.239 --> 02:06:05.789
Are you going to get a good lawyer?

02:06:06.130 --> 02:06:08.929
There's a lot of people in jail in the
States because they had terrible lawyers.

02:06:08.989 --> 02:06:09.369
Travis Bader: Mm.

02:06:09.625 --> 02:06:15.305
Ian Sim: Um, so they've been through
the good, the bad and the ugly, far

02:06:15.305 --> 02:06:16.985
more than we have up in this country.

02:06:17.415 --> 02:06:19.625
So there's a wealth of
experience in there.

02:06:19.625 --> 02:06:24.255
So I've recommended it to people
who, um, don't own firearms.

02:06:25.005 --> 02:06:27.725
Travis Bader: Well, Masada
Yube has got some good stuff

02:06:27.725 --> 02:06:28.995
out there on YouTube as well.

02:06:29.685 --> 02:06:35.285
Uh, there, there's one, uh, there's
actually two that I can think of.

02:06:35.295 --> 02:06:39.115
There's two really good videos
that kind of deal with the after.

02:06:39.585 --> 02:06:46.034
Uh, one is Basada Youb and he's talking
about dealing with, um, a deadly force

02:06:46.035 --> 02:06:50.374
encounter, dealing with law enforcement
afterwards, dealing with the courts.

02:06:51.055 --> 02:06:54.925
Uh, there's another one where
there's a, um, I think he's a

02:06:54.925 --> 02:06:56.385
public defender in the States.

02:06:56.385 --> 02:07:00.285
And then he's got the, uh, a
police officer who comes in after

02:07:00.285 --> 02:07:02.875
him and he says, look, I'm going
to give you equal time to talk.

02:07:02.975 --> 02:07:04.225
I'm going to save my piece.

02:07:04.275 --> 02:07:06.665
I'm going to talk really quickly
so I can get this all out.

02:07:07.215 --> 02:07:08.395
I've got X amount of time.

02:07:08.395 --> 02:07:09.785
And then you've got X amount of time.

02:07:10.174 --> 02:07:15.000
And he is, his whole speech, the
lawyer was Don't talk to the police.

02:07:15.130 --> 02:07:15.530
Right.

02:07:15.590 --> 02:07:19.050
And it's, it's an interesting one
that I think everybody should read

02:07:19.490 --> 02:07:22.490
or sorry, everybody should watch and
it's not, don't talk to the police

02:07:22.519 --> 02:07:26.229
because the police are out there to
get you, the police are your friend.

02:07:26.940 --> 02:07:32.870
If you're in a situation where you now
are required to have to talk to the

02:07:32.870 --> 02:07:36.840
police, this lawyer outlines all the
different ways that it can go sideways.

02:07:37.495 --> 02:07:40.785
Even if you're telling a hundred
percent truth and you've got the best

02:07:40.785 --> 02:07:44.375
intentions, goes through all of the
different reasons, then the police

02:07:44.375 --> 02:07:48.185
officer stands up and now it's his
half hour to talk or his 10 minutes,

02:07:48.185 --> 02:07:50.114
whatever it was that his half time was.

02:07:51.014 --> 02:07:59.125
And he says, all I can say is recapitulate
what he said, because everything he said

02:07:59.125 --> 02:08:03.695
is true, nothing you can do is going to be
able to help you in the moment afterwards.

02:08:03.695 --> 02:08:06.684
You're not going to explain away
everything and have it all figured out.

02:08:06.875 --> 02:08:08.864
There are some things you
can do that'll make it worse.

02:08:08.905 --> 02:08:09.645
Definitely.

02:08:10.280 --> 02:08:16.110
So Masada Youb and the don't talk to
the police video are very interesting

02:08:16.190 --> 02:08:20.534
after the fact ones, because if you
are unfortunate enough to be involved.

02:08:20.935 --> 02:08:24.905
In a situation where you weren't
able to avoid it ahead of time

02:08:24.935 --> 02:08:31.105
during the before or mitigate it
or, um, cause it not to happen.

02:08:31.465 --> 02:08:35.575
And you found yourself in the
during, and you're able to employ

02:08:35.575 --> 02:08:37.959
the stuff that you know, in order
to be able to get out of it.

02:08:38.020 --> 02:08:44.450
Alive, the after is the part
that can really ruin most people.

02:08:44.450 --> 02:08:47.330
It can have the most negative effects
after getting out of there because

02:08:47.330 --> 02:08:50.989
the system that they figure is there
to protect them, they don't feel like

02:08:50.990 --> 02:08:54.580
that if they've done things wrong, if
they've said the wrong things afterwards.

02:08:56.860 --> 02:09:00.250
Ian Sim: Every lawyer in sales, when
we put someone sales or even roadside

02:09:00.250 --> 02:09:01.570
where they get their call to the lawyer.

02:09:01.600 --> 02:09:04.500
It says, don't talk to the police.

02:09:05.580 --> 02:09:06.460
We'll figure this out.

02:09:07.190 --> 02:09:08.550
You've had a traumatic experience.

02:09:09.650 --> 02:09:12.680
You're under the influence
of drugs and or alcohol.

02:09:13.230 --> 02:09:14.719
You're having a mental health break.

02:09:14.730 --> 02:09:18.000
Like there's so many things
like now is not the right time.

02:09:18.000 --> 02:09:22.430
And, you know, even with, we'll do
our own debriefings, a more detailed

02:09:22.459 --> 02:09:24.580
debriefing, what, 72 hours down the road.

02:09:24.945 --> 02:09:28.575
Once the dust has settled and our
brain has stopped spinning and

02:09:29.105 --> 02:09:30.595
you know, we can process stuff.

02:09:30.625 --> 02:09:36.495
I mean, there's no shortage of research
on the infallibility of eyewitnesses

02:09:36.495 --> 02:09:37.955
and all kinds of stuff like that, right?

02:09:38.184 --> 02:09:39.144
Memory the same.

02:09:39.144 --> 02:09:41.805
We have a far better understanding
of memory when you're going to

02:09:41.845 --> 02:09:43.505
get your best, um, statement.

02:09:44.244 --> 02:09:46.354
We as police officers
have a duty to account.

02:09:46.494 --> 02:09:50.175
So we have to kind of say to
investigators that day or night.

02:09:50.620 --> 02:09:51.880
Roughly what happened?

02:09:52.580 --> 02:09:55.760
Uh, I think some police forces
now are, aren't even doing that.

02:09:55.790 --> 02:09:56.870
Uh, I don't know how that works.

02:09:56.870 --> 02:09:56.960
Mm-Hmm.

02:09:56.960 --> 02:10:03.590
But, um, you know, I, I think I owe
it to, um, the public and I owe it

02:10:04.270 --> 02:10:08.680
to the organization to give a, a very
brief description as to what happened

02:10:08.770 --> 02:10:09.100
Travis Bader: Mm-Hmm.

02:10:09.340 --> 02:10:10.840
Ian Sim: But that after that self-care.

02:10:11.005 --> 02:10:13.555
And, and, you know, we'll
get the rest sorted out.

02:10:13.555 --> 02:10:18.035
So this book, again, no one thinks,
well, more people are thinking

02:10:18.045 --> 02:10:22.725
about it now in policing is, is
police officers being charged.

02:10:23.774 --> 02:10:27.244
Uh, in rare occasions, uh, one
or two of them have gone to jail,

02:10:28.065 --> 02:10:36.015
um, media scrutiny, politics,
the politicization of everything.

02:10:36.425 --> 02:10:40.065
Thankfully we don't, um, elect
our prosecutors or our judges.

02:10:40.880 --> 02:10:45.230
Because, you know, what's the best
way to make a name as a prosecutor,

02:10:45.230 --> 02:10:49.470
judge, prosecute a cop, a movie star.

02:10:50.740 --> 02:10:51.300
I don't know.

02:10:51.340 --> 02:10:52.300
That was kind of the top.

02:10:52.850 --> 02:10:53.160
Travis Bader: Yeah.

02:10:53.250 --> 02:10:54.409
You get yourself right out there.

02:10:54.449 --> 02:10:58.860
Ian Sim: Um, and the book goes
into that and, and, um, yeah.

02:11:00.980 --> 02:11:05.370
Travis Bader: You know, there's
one thing that I've, I haven't

02:11:05.370 --> 02:11:07.060
seen this written about.

02:11:07.080 --> 02:11:10.890
I haven't seen it through the, the whole
don't talk to the police and all the

02:11:10.890 --> 02:11:15.470
reasons behind it that I've never seen
people advocate for, but it's one thing

02:11:15.470 --> 02:11:20.524
that I think people should consider,
which is insofar as a lawyer is concerned.

02:11:20.715 --> 02:11:25.005
It's if you find yourself in a lethal
force situation or whatever it might be,

02:11:25.005 --> 02:11:27.675
whatever your roadside thing, whatever
it might be, you talk to the lawyer, they

02:11:27.705 --> 02:11:29.485
said, okay, have you talked to the cops?

02:11:29.485 --> 02:11:29.725
Okay.

02:11:29.725 --> 02:11:30.294
What'd you say?

02:11:30.294 --> 02:11:30.514
Okay.

02:11:30.515 --> 02:11:31.494
Don't say anything else, right?

02:11:31.495 --> 02:11:32.395
Don't you're done.

02:11:32.395 --> 02:11:32.964
Don't talk to him.

02:11:32.964 --> 02:11:34.184
We'll figure it out afterwards.

02:11:35.374 --> 02:11:41.974
The one thing that I haven't seen is, uh,
the opposite, which is asking questions.

02:11:43.430 --> 02:11:48.900
Because the whole, everything that
you can say, can, everything you say

02:11:48.900 --> 02:11:51.190
can and will be used against you in
the court of law, that, that whole

02:11:51.190 --> 02:11:52.400
thing, Miranda rights or whatever.

02:11:52.790 --> 02:11:53.290
Um.

02:11:53.680 --> 02:11:54.729
Carmen Miranda?

02:11:54.800 --> 02:11:55.599
Carmen, that's right.

02:11:55.600 --> 02:11:56.109
We're the world.

02:11:56.109 --> 02:11:56.739
That's American.

02:11:56.830 --> 02:11:57.290
That's right.

02:11:57.779 --> 02:12:01.180
Oh, I know that's American Miranda
rights, but, uh, Canada, what do we have?

02:12:01.895 --> 02:12:03.485
It's just, it's just a warning, right?

02:12:03.485 --> 02:12:04.125
That's what they call it.

02:12:04.125 --> 02:12:05.255
Well, it's your

02:12:05.255 --> 02:12:05.905
Ian Sim: charter rights.

02:12:06.075 --> 02:12:06.465
Travis Bader: Okay.

02:12:06.485 --> 02:12:06.635
Ian Sim: Yeah.

02:12:06.635 --> 02:12:09.075
Your charter rights, uh, Canadian
charter rights and freedoms.

02:12:09.085 --> 02:12:13.544
It's your, it's so, um, yeah, you've
been chartered, you've been warned.

02:12:13.545 --> 02:12:15.105
Um, so it's

02:12:15.105 --> 02:12:15.855
Travis Bader: your charter rights.

02:12:16.155 --> 02:12:18.974
So, um, that goes two ways too.

02:12:19.335 --> 02:12:22.684
If you ask questions back to the
police, why am I being arrested?

02:12:22.694 --> 02:12:26.974
Why am I being detained without
being a dink about things, because

02:12:26.974 --> 02:12:30.134
obviously it's going to be a
human nature in there and But.

02:12:30.585 --> 02:12:34.295
Everything that's said back can also
be used possibly in your favor in the

02:12:34.305 --> 02:12:38.075
future, in the same way, that way you say
in the moment could be used against you.

02:12:38.505 --> 02:12:39.845
So when you're

02:12:39.845 --> 02:12:42.124
Ian Sim: arrested, we tell you why, right?

02:12:42.264 --> 02:12:46.514
So right off the bat, you
are under arrest for this.

02:12:47.125 --> 02:12:48.675
Do you understand, right?

02:12:49.005 --> 02:12:50.955
And then you continue, you know,
you don't have to say anything.

02:12:50.955 --> 02:12:52.805
Anything you say can be used against you.

02:12:52.855 --> 02:12:53.725
Do you understand?

02:12:53.735 --> 02:12:54.635
Would you like to call a lawyer?

02:12:54.635 --> 02:12:55.255
Do you understand?

02:12:55.275 --> 02:12:57.875
And a lot of the time now it's
recorded on a digital recorder.

02:12:59.355 --> 02:13:01.154
The whole conversation is recorded.

02:13:01.995 --> 02:13:04.544
Now we're going to have body worn
video in the not too distant future.

02:13:04.904 --> 02:13:08.725
Um, you know, that's
going to record stuff too.

02:13:09.195 --> 02:13:14.205
So I try and be as honest and
open with everybody I deal with.

02:13:15.665 --> 02:13:22.320
Um, including, you Someone who you're
arresting for a domestic homicide.

02:13:23.120 --> 02:13:28.650
Um, particularly with a
serious file like that, right?

02:13:28.650 --> 02:13:32.350
You want everything done, slow it down.

02:13:33.030 --> 02:13:35.400
Make sure you check off all the boxes.

02:13:35.760 --> 02:13:39.520
They're going to be rechartered and
warned a number of times anyways, once a

02:13:40.020 --> 02:13:42.650
homicide or I hit investigators get there.

02:13:42.650 --> 02:13:42.980
So

02:13:45.849 --> 02:13:47.760
I'm not, I'm not out to trick anyone.

02:13:47.950 --> 02:13:49.420
Travis Bader: No, a hundred percent.

02:13:49.420 --> 02:13:49.610
Yeah.

02:13:49.610 --> 02:13:51.259
Ian Sim: And, and I

02:13:51.269 --> 02:13:52.220
Travis Bader: will, um.

02:13:52.230 --> 02:13:54.789
Most police aren't,
there's going to be that.

02:13:55.515 --> 02:14:00.275
My, my opinion, um, growing up in a law
enforcement family, dealing with a lot

02:14:00.275 --> 02:14:05.424
of for enforcement fam, uh, dealing with
law enforcement, both professionally and

02:14:05.424 --> 02:14:11.664
personally, is that the majority of law
enforcement get in for very great reasons.

02:14:11.664 --> 02:14:13.834
They've got a good hiring
process here in Canada.

02:14:13.834 --> 02:14:18.265
They've got good training in Canada,
and we've got some phenomenal people.

02:14:19.095 --> 02:14:22.945
You're going to have your very small
percentage that are just rotten apples.

02:14:23.345 --> 02:14:26.545
You're going to have your very small
percentage that are just leagues

02:14:26.545 --> 02:14:35.345
above superstars and then over time,
people are people and they're going to

02:14:35.355 --> 02:14:39.705
see, I just arrested that person and
they're out again, 10 minutes later.

02:14:39.705 --> 02:14:42.915
And man, I still got a job to do.

02:14:43.865 --> 02:14:47.095
There's a reason we have game
trails because animals take

02:14:47.125 --> 02:14:49.865
the least, the easiest Path.

02:14:49.895 --> 02:14:50.625
Creature of habit.

02:14:50.905 --> 02:14:52.555
People will take the easiest path.

02:14:52.565 --> 02:14:53.555
They'll still do their job.

02:14:53.565 --> 02:14:57.205
They're still majority are going to
be of a high caliber, but they'll

02:14:57.205 --> 02:14:58.595
just plug and play and go through.

02:14:58.645 --> 02:15:05.335
So by no means do we think that the
policing are going to be out to get you.

02:15:06.030 --> 02:15:08.760
I think the majority of them are
going to be well intentioned,

02:15:08.760 --> 02:15:11.330
but you know, if there's an easy
path, we can go through here.

02:15:11.330 --> 02:15:14.660
And I mean, ABC, we'll go, we'll let
the courts figure it out afterwards.

02:15:14.660 --> 02:15:15.800
I'll go through my process.

02:15:16.020 --> 02:15:22.100
If you give somebody their warning as a
peace officer, okay, you're being arrested

02:15:22.100 --> 02:15:26.360
for ABC and D well, stolen vehicle, right.

02:15:26.360 --> 02:15:31.305
Or whatever it might be, or speeding, or,
you know, Oh, did you see me speeding?

02:15:31.745 --> 02:15:34.065
Well, no, I mean, you
matched the description.

02:15:34.115 --> 02:15:35.845
Well, what was the description, right?

02:15:35.845 --> 02:15:40.485
And all of these little things that you
can go through, and I'm not advocating

02:15:40.485 --> 02:15:44.924
for, for bad people to get off the hook,
but for people who haven't done something

02:15:44.925 --> 02:15:49.335
wrong, because I've dealt with others
in similar circumstances, I've been

02:15:49.335 --> 02:15:51.355
in a similar circumstance in the past.

02:15:51.395 --> 02:15:54.450
And, um, Asking those
questions at the time.

02:15:54.470 --> 02:15:56.260
Why do you feel this?

02:15:56.290 --> 02:15:56.910
Fair enough.

02:15:56.910 --> 02:15:57.670
I'm not fighting you.

02:15:57.680 --> 02:15:57.970
Right.

02:15:58.400 --> 02:16:01.380
We're not turning this into a fight,
but I'll ask some questions as you

02:16:01.380 --> 02:16:06.670
go through, because all of that can,
can speed up a process later on a

02:16:06.670 --> 02:16:12.779
process that might take, uh, let's say
eight years to work its way through

02:16:12.779 --> 02:16:16.669
a system could be sped up to, I
don't know, maybe a month, it can be.

02:16:17.100 --> 02:16:19.880
And when they turn around and
realize, okay, maybe we weren't

02:16:19.890 --> 02:16:23.430
operating off of the right, uh,
information or circumstances.

02:16:23.430 --> 02:16:27.670
So that, that was one little piece
that I've seen the asking questions

02:16:27.690 --> 02:16:29.850
part, which I haven't seen out there.

02:16:30.200 --> 02:16:32.729
Ian Sim: And you know, it's interesting
because people talk to me about

02:16:32.729 --> 02:16:34.850
certain policing stuff, right?

02:16:34.899 --> 02:16:38.820
I mean, once you got a cop in uniform
there, cause who talks to cops in uniform?

02:16:39.200 --> 02:16:41.900
I mean, when we knock on the door
with bad news or we pull you over.

02:16:41.960 --> 02:16:42.290
Right.

02:16:42.350 --> 02:16:48.130
Um, but when do you, when do you
see a police officer chilling that,

02:16:48.130 --> 02:16:51.860
that, that, and most people won't
approach a cop anyways, right?

02:16:52.060 --> 02:16:52.820
Like to ask questions.

02:16:52.820 --> 02:16:57.210
So we have to put ourselves out there
in our community, out of the cars,

02:16:57.399 --> 02:17:02.239
on foot, on bikes, have to put the
right people out there who, um, are.

02:17:02.760 --> 02:17:06.210
Are willing to talk to the public
when the public come up to them.

02:17:06.320 --> 02:17:06.870
Yes.

02:17:06.940 --> 02:17:11.030
I would suggest you need to put the right
people out there who will go and talk to

02:17:11.030 --> 02:17:13.280
the public because many of them won't.

02:17:14.050 --> 02:17:17.350
The minute the ice is
broken, everything changes.

02:17:17.939 --> 02:17:18.349
So.

02:17:18.960 --> 02:17:21.870
That's me, we're all different,
um, different stages of our

02:17:21.870 --> 02:17:25.170
career, uh, good days, bad days.

02:17:26.040 --> 02:17:28.360
Uh, policing can do better.

02:17:28.819 --> 02:17:31.249
So there's talk about, um,

02:17:33.640 --> 02:17:38.720
changing the policing model in Canada to
much of the finish, the finish policing

02:17:38.720 --> 02:17:43.090
model, three, three year program,
um, kind of a combination between

02:17:43.090 --> 02:17:48.789
police college and post secondary, uh,
with, with a focus on, uh, policing.

02:17:49.100 --> 02:17:53.970
Uh, more relevant stuff, deescalation,
ground fighting, um, jujitsu.

02:17:54.030 --> 02:18:00.810
Um, so six months at depo or at the
justice institute of BC or the Ontario

02:18:00.810 --> 02:18:01.990
police college or whatever it's called.

02:18:02.100 --> 02:18:02.430
Travis Bader: Sure.

02:18:03.159 --> 02:18:05.669
Ian Sim: Uh, I think we could
use more than six months.

02:18:05.750 --> 02:18:06.180
Hmm.

02:18:06.359 --> 02:18:10.320
Um, you coming in with a four
year degree of even criminology.

02:18:11.240 --> 02:18:11.690
Okay.

02:18:11.780 --> 02:18:18.680
Um, we know you can think critically
about things, um, but can you

02:18:19.050 --> 02:18:20.920
pass the physical abilities test?

02:18:21.635 --> 02:18:26.045
Uh, like there's, there's a lot of things
I think as, as an industry and, and I

02:18:26.055 --> 02:18:30.135
think we're moving in that direction,
we can do better, we should do better.

02:18:31.125 --> 02:18:34.965
Um, we're held to a high
standard, which we should be.

02:18:35.055 --> 02:18:35.455
Travis Bader: Sure.

02:18:36.114 --> 02:18:39.184
Ian Sim: However, I think there's one
group of individuals in this country

02:18:39.194 --> 02:18:41.235
who should be held to a higher standard.

02:18:41.285 --> 02:18:41.675
Travis Bader: Yes.

02:18:41.684 --> 02:18:42.835
I think I know who you're talking about.

02:18:43.185 --> 02:18:47.905
Ian Sim: And our elected officials don't
seem to be very interested in being held

02:18:47.905 --> 02:18:49.827
to anywhere near the standard that we are.

02:18:49.827 --> 02:18:49.989
Sure.

02:18:50.400 --> 02:18:53.580
And I think that results
in a lot of problems.

02:18:54.530 --> 02:19:00.609
Um, I know, like, I know
some current mayors.

02:19:00.609 --> 02:19:02.000
I know some past mayors.

02:19:02.030 --> 02:19:05.320
I know some who wants to be premier.

02:19:05.320 --> 02:19:10.980
I know the premier through my, he,
he bumped into a number of times.

02:19:10.980 --> 02:19:12.510
Um, I gave him a couple of books.

02:19:13.900 --> 02:19:16.110
I gave him a book on
transnational organized crime

02:19:16.110 --> 02:19:19.010
called McMafia, fantastic book.

02:19:19.130 --> 02:19:19.230
Travis Bader: Yeah.

02:19:20.400 --> 02:19:25.930
Ian Sim: Um, and it had some discussions
with them because it's what I do.

02:19:26.480 --> 02:19:34.460
Um, but yeah, we need to up our
game, um, you know, for a fabulously

02:19:34.460 --> 02:19:36.510
wealthy country, our infrastructures.

02:19:38.770 --> 02:19:45.140
Travis Bader: You know, I read a statistic
about, um, uh, about corruption and

02:19:45.140 --> 02:19:49.660
it says, you know, you go to Mexico,
you go to some third world countries

02:19:49.660 --> 02:19:51.810
and the rules are clear, right?

02:19:51.810 --> 02:19:54.890
You slip them some money, get
out of the speeding ticket.

02:19:54.900 --> 02:19:56.400
There's a lot of low level corruption.

02:19:56.429 --> 02:19:59.730
Canada is next to none
for low level corruption.

02:20:00.080 --> 02:20:04.860
However, at the higher level, higher
level corruption is through the roof.

02:20:04.860 --> 02:20:07.370
So, And that's where the
lack of accountability is.

02:20:07.370 --> 02:20:12.750
And it's, if that statistic is true
that I've looked at, that would probably

02:20:12.750 --> 02:20:17.390
account for some of the, some of the
issues that we see on a regular basis.

02:20:17.890 --> 02:20:23.260
Ian Sim: Well, uh, you know, shortly
after I gave, uh, David Eby that

02:20:23.260 --> 02:20:28.360
book on transnational organized
crime, was it short, he did the

02:20:28.450 --> 02:20:29.880
money laundering inquiry came out.

02:20:30.260 --> 02:20:35.010
I don't know if it was shortly after
that, or I think it was before.

02:20:35.349 --> 02:20:38.780
And he certainly didn't, um, start
the inquiry because I gave him a book.

02:20:38.820 --> 02:20:39.490
Travis Bader: Um, but.

02:20:39.660 --> 02:20:42.750
I think it came out into the public
perception though, people, there's some

02:20:42.760 --> 02:20:44.820
hue and cry over the money laundering and.

02:20:45.460 --> 02:20:46.580
Ian Sim: But no one was held accountable.

02:20:47.435 --> 02:20:51.405
So, you know, there's a, there's a,
there's an old fashioned concept called

02:20:51.485 --> 02:20:56.095
personal responsibility, it's ancient,
really, no one talks about it anymore.

02:20:56.654 --> 02:20:57.104
Um,

02:20:59.925 --> 02:21:04.715
I was quite impressed that a, you know,
kind of leftist NDP government was going

02:21:04.715 --> 02:21:12.265
to, you know, initiate a, a big needed,
you know, law enforcement type thing.

02:21:12.705 --> 02:21:17.935
It kind of, I think, stopped halfway
through and no one was held accountable.

02:21:17.935 --> 02:21:18.825
I think that's a problem.

02:21:18.985 --> 02:21:24.455
Um, our infrastructure is crumbling,
fabulously wealthy country.

02:21:24.455 --> 02:21:32.385
Uh, I think we just need to get
back to basics and build on that.

02:21:34.025 --> 02:21:34.825
We're part of that.

02:21:34.914 --> 02:21:36.925
So we're part of the
infrastructure policing.

02:21:37.795 --> 02:21:39.309
We should do better.

02:21:39.630 --> 02:21:43.440
Um, you know, I'll stand at the
top of trail six, which is the

02:21:43.460 --> 02:21:47.050
top of the trail, uh, that goes
500 stairs down to wreck beach.

02:21:47.070 --> 02:21:50.640
And I do foot patrol still,
obviously I'm old school, but.

02:21:51.735 --> 02:21:54.475
Um, and people go, Hey boss.

02:21:54.965 --> 02:21:55.365
And I'm like,

02:21:57.485 --> 02:21:58.495
you've got that wrong.

02:21:58.935 --> 02:21:59.405
And they're like,

02:22:01.465 --> 02:22:03.335
I said, yeah, it's, it's
the other way around.

02:22:03.595 --> 02:22:04.085
Right.

02:22:04.405 --> 02:22:06.305
And they're like, and they don't
know what I'm talking about.

02:22:07.165 --> 02:22:09.654
I go, you're my boss.

02:22:10.445 --> 02:22:11.775
I work for you.

02:22:13.565 --> 02:22:14.805
It's not just a line.

02:22:15.220 --> 02:22:17.420
I work for you, that's my job.

02:22:18.480 --> 02:22:23.210
So I get, I report to the RCMP.

02:22:24.170 --> 02:22:25.050
I don't work for them.

02:22:25.940 --> 02:22:28.280
I report to them kind of like a franchise.

02:22:28.529 --> 02:22:29.470
I'm a franchise owner.

02:22:29.510 --> 02:22:30.770
I own my own franchise.

02:22:31.600 --> 02:22:36.000
Um, you know, the, the head company,
parent company is pretty good.

02:22:36.455 --> 02:22:40.955
But like any old bureaucratic,
conservative organization,

02:22:41.125 --> 02:22:42.285
it could do better.

02:22:43.155 --> 02:22:45.865
So I think some of my standards
and concepts and ideas are

02:22:45.865 --> 02:22:49.124
sometimes better than the parent
company, but it's a franchise.

02:22:49.124 --> 02:22:50.985
You do as you're told, um,

02:22:53.745 --> 02:22:54.474
but I work for you.

02:22:57.775 --> 02:23:01.564
Travis Bader: So I've got some friends
who work in corrections and they

02:23:01.564 --> 02:23:06.345
say that, uh, it's an insult from
the, um, the cons as they call them.

02:23:06.345 --> 02:23:06.895
Yes.

02:23:06.965 --> 02:23:09.605
They call it, call you a boss
because it's SOB backwards.

02:23:09.645 --> 02:23:09.675
Right.

02:23:10.325 --> 02:23:10.545
Ian Sim: Yep.

02:23:10.975 --> 02:23:12.965
And I understand the difference.

02:23:13.015 --> 02:23:13.965
I understand.

02:23:14.045 --> 02:23:14.775
You know who you're talking

02:23:14.775 --> 02:23:15.545
Travis Bader: to when they say it.

02:23:15.905 --> 02:23:16.195
Right.

02:23:16.235 --> 02:23:16.415
And

02:23:16.415 --> 02:23:18.435
Ian Sim: I understand if
they're American kids, for the

02:23:18.435 --> 02:23:20.135
most part, Canadian students.

02:23:20.225 --> 02:23:23.274
Um, yeah, I, I, yeah,
I'm, I'm pretty good.

02:23:23.675 --> 02:23:24.995
And, and words matter, right.

02:23:25.304 --> 02:23:28.205
Um, you know, I've studied
terrorism for decades.

02:23:28.364 --> 02:23:31.645
Um, both personally and professionally.

02:23:31.675 --> 02:23:37.165
My mom would say I started off as a
little kid, but, um, words matter.

02:23:38.405 --> 02:23:39.135
And.

02:23:40.645 --> 02:23:46.435
You know, when I look at a lot of the
antisemitic stuff happening recently

02:23:46.515 --> 02:23:49.155
around post secondary educations,

02:23:51.395 --> 02:23:55.314
I saw that stuff almost a decade
ago when I got to UBC, you could

02:23:55.565 --> 02:23:58.345
see the groundwork being laid.

02:23:59.000 --> 02:24:04.930
Not intentionally, but you know,
the, the censorship, um, you can't

02:24:04.930 --> 02:24:10.150
say this, but you can say this and,
and, and the intimidation and stuff.

02:24:11.039 --> 02:24:11.399
Travis Bader: Yeah.

02:24:11.490 --> 02:24:15.180
Ian Sim: And, you know, I don't think
there's ever been a genocide in the

02:24:15.180 --> 02:24:21.980
history of the world where it didn't start
with a demonization of particular group.

02:24:22.955 --> 02:24:27.345
And it's, it always starts
with words, you know, um.

02:24:28.345 --> 02:24:30.535
And Noam Chomsky would have
something to say about that.

02:24:31.135 --> 02:24:33.135
Haven't read him in a long time, decades.

02:24:33.175 --> 02:24:34.265
But, um.

02:24:35.290 --> 02:24:38.690
And then I look and I'm
like, this is no surprise.

02:24:39.270 --> 02:24:39.780
Travis Bader: Um,

02:24:40.490 --> 02:24:44.530
Ian Sim: you know, and I, and I was,
there's, there's something called

02:24:44.530 --> 02:24:46.880
the Chicago principles, I think.

02:24:46.970 --> 02:24:47.300
Okay.

02:24:48.090 --> 02:24:50.580
Chicago university or
university of Chicago.

02:24:51.379 --> 02:24:56.239
And they, and the minute you Google it,
it pops up, but, um, yeah, you're not

02:24:56.290 --> 02:24:59.630
here at Chicago university to be safe.

02:25:02.240 --> 02:25:09.160
Say physically, but, but, um, you're
going to be here, uh, unpopular,

02:25:09.530 --> 02:25:12.160
contrary, um, opinions, discussions.

02:25:12.320 --> 02:25:13.810
That's what you're here for, right?

02:25:14.669 --> 02:25:23.299
Um, the exact opposite of a lot of the
so called woke, um, cancel culture stuff.

02:25:23.840 --> 02:25:30.190
So the Chicago principles, um, so
as a counter terrorism information

02:25:30.190 --> 02:25:36.960
officer, uh, working on a
university campus, rec beach, um,

02:25:39.285 --> 02:25:43.855
I could see this groundwork being laid.

02:25:44.045 --> 02:25:45.865
We used to call it political correctness.

02:25:45.875 --> 02:25:52.325
It takes different names, different
forms, but it's no surprise that,

02:25:52.365 --> 02:25:58.454
um, that caught fire the day after
October 7th, or was it the 6th, 7th?

02:25:58.535 --> 02:26:02.040
Um, And it was like, the
groundwork was already laid.

02:26:02.380 --> 02:26:11.319
It's, I could see it coming and, and then
you see why it's entrenched because you

02:26:11.319 --> 02:26:14.419
can entrench anything, racism, right?

02:26:15.070 --> 02:26:20.559
Uh, uh, goodwill, like you can
entrench, entrench anything, just.

02:26:21.280 --> 02:26:24.860
Get them in school for a while
and just keep pumping them with

02:26:25.890 --> 02:26:27.270
whatever message you want to do.

02:26:27.270 --> 02:26:36.719
So, you know, someone was asking me,
well, what can we do at universities to,

02:26:36.749 --> 02:26:46.169
to try and get us back on course, um,
friendlier, more civilized discussions.

02:26:46.490 --> 02:26:48.460
At the post secondary level.

02:26:49.330 --> 02:26:53.160
And I said, well, I don't know, why
don't you pull all the money from post

02:26:53.160 --> 02:26:58.140
secondary institutions in the province,
unless they adhere to the Chicago

02:26:58.140 --> 02:27:00.950
principles in both, uh, word and deed.

02:27:02.230 --> 02:27:05.340
Cause money gets people's
attention like nobody else.

02:27:05.460 --> 02:27:05.920
That's it.

02:27:05.960 --> 02:27:06.769
Or nothing else.

02:27:07.030 --> 02:27:07.780
Travis Bader: Money and power.

02:27:07.800 --> 02:27:08.440
So Chicago

02:27:08.440 --> 02:27:09.840
Ian Sim: principles, um.

02:27:10.770 --> 02:27:15.990
Um, maybe funding, provincial funding
should be somewhat tied to, to that.

02:27:16.490 --> 02:27:19.440
Um, you know, the West
doesn't know at all.

02:27:20.300 --> 02:27:22.750
Um, we, but we do a lot of things, right.

02:27:23.020 --> 02:27:28.729
And much of the world looked
to us or did even still, we all

02:27:28.729 --> 02:27:30.059
need to try and up our game.

02:27:30.399 --> 02:27:33.460
Um, I don't think the elected
officials know what they don't know.

02:27:34.600 --> 02:27:39.840
They don't have any idea that effective
and enduring community safety.

02:27:41.120 --> 02:27:46.050
Is comprised of public safety, which is
their responsibility and personal safety.

02:27:47.920 --> 02:27:48.740
They don't know what to do now.

02:27:48.770 --> 02:27:51.670
They're sitting there twiddling
their thumbs going, Oh crap.

02:27:52.610 --> 02:27:56.550
You know, uh, the liberals are
saying, well, yeah, maybe we'll

02:27:56.979 --> 02:27:58.960
do some bail reform under C75.

02:27:59.970 --> 02:28:02.289
Polyev's going, you know, jail, not bail.

02:28:03.720 --> 02:28:05.020
There's more to it than that.

02:28:05.740 --> 02:28:10.500
Travis Bader: Well, how do you, how
do you make personal sale, how do you

02:28:10.500 --> 02:28:17.735
make personal safety saleable, how do
they make, uh, money off of personal

02:28:17.735 --> 02:28:23.034
safety or how do they make that win
hearts and minds and votes by advocating

02:28:23.034 --> 02:28:25.634
for people to look after themselves?

02:28:25.754 --> 02:28:29.374
Ian Sim: Well, we talk a big game where
politicians talk a big game about rights.

02:28:30.105 --> 02:28:35.094
You know, um, listen to the
liberals, um, advocating for, um,

02:28:35.585 --> 02:28:36.935
Uh, reproductive rights for women,

02:28:37.065 --> 02:28:37.685
Travis Bader: a woman's

02:28:37.685 --> 02:28:40.005
Ian Sim: right to choose,
it's front and center.

02:28:40.405 --> 02:28:40.635
Travis Bader: Every

02:28:40.635 --> 02:28:42.135
Ian Sim: election it's
front and center again.

02:28:42.865 --> 02:28:49.625
Okay, well, let's have a discussion on
rights in this country, particularly

02:28:50.294 --> 02:28:54.655
the right of all rights, section seven
of the charter, security of person.

02:28:55.434 --> 02:29:00.974
Yes, a woman's right to choose
is, is, is up there, but as that

02:29:00.974 --> 02:29:02.374
other woman told me recently.

02:29:04.465 --> 02:29:07.315
It's not exactly as it's been portrayed.

02:29:08.325 --> 02:29:11.915
Maybe a woman's right to choose
is, is primarily how, when,

02:29:11.915 --> 02:29:15.675
and if to choose to protect her
life and the lives of her kids.

02:29:16.365 --> 02:29:19.774
Once you're safe, we'll
discuss all the other rights.

02:29:20.134 --> 02:29:23.475
So we need, um, bit more of the charter.

02:29:24.150 --> 02:29:30.060
In our high schools, we need, uh,
maybe a whole course, I don't know.

02:29:30.640 --> 02:29:35.430
Um, but you can tie it into civics
or social studies or history.

02:29:35.629 --> 02:29:37.310
Travis Bader: Or into everything
and just have a little bit

02:29:37.330 --> 02:29:38.620
over and over and over again.

02:29:38.620 --> 02:29:38.680
So

02:29:38.700 --> 02:29:39.800
Ian Sim: into everything.

02:29:39.800 --> 02:29:40.354
Travis Bader: Right.

02:29:41.110 --> 02:29:41.150
Um,

02:29:42.070 --> 02:29:47.080
Ian Sim: we, um, rights just need to
be a topic of discussion all the time.

02:29:47.120 --> 02:29:51.169
So when you see in the news today
at either the local level or

02:29:51.169 --> 02:29:57.790
federal level, um, on CKW, uh,
when they talk about public safety

02:29:57.790 --> 02:29:59.260
is usually the term they use.

02:29:59.399 --> 02:29:59.889
Travis Bader: Right.

02:30:00.010 --> 02:30:00.630
Ian Sim: Um, that's fine.

02:30:00.640 --> 02:30:01.660
We'll just call it public safety.

02:30:01.670 --> 02:30:02.030
Travis Bader: Sure.

02:30:03.310 --> 02:30:09.640
Ian Sim: But it, it, it takes
a village to raise a child.

02:30:11.450 --> 02:30:17.370
Uh, I think the more parents, the better,
not getting any further than that.

02:30:17.400 --> 02:30:21.309
I just think the more support
children have, the better they are.

02:30:21.390 --> 02:30:21.770
Travis Bader: Hmm.

02:30:21.770 --> 02:30:22.759
I mean.

02:30:22.789 --> 02:30:22.909
Two

02:30:22.909 --> 02:30:26.699
Ian Sim: parents, uh, brothers,
sisters, relatives, but it takes

02:30:26.700 --> 02:30:28.290
a village to raise a child.

02:30:29.050 --> 02:30:31.050
It takes a village to keep itself safe.

02:30:31.980 --> 02:30:40.020
Canadians are going to have to re engage
in, um, looking out for each other.

02:30:41.290 --> 02:30:43.700
Can't, we can't do it in isolation.

02:30:43.730 --> 02:30:45.230
We can't arrest our way
out of this problem.

02:30:45.960 --> 02:30:47.150
Like not a chance.

02:30:47.870 --> 02:30:53.830
We are missing fully 50 percent of what we
need, probably more, for community safety.

02:30:54.400 --> 02:30:59.350
And through any number, a number
of factors of which we have no

02:30:59.350 --> 02:31:03.939
control, some we do, um, things
are not going that well right now.

02:31:04.910 --> 02:31:06.990
We can turn a lot of that around.

02:31:07.950 --> 02:31:13.689
Um, and, and the nice thing is, is if the
government is unwilling or unable to do

02:31:13.890 --> 02:31:16.900
Do their public safety job, uh, better.

02:31:18.630 --> 02:31:22.350
The personal safety part is you
don't need anyone's permission.

02:31:23.220 --> 02:31:25.819
That's the most important right you have.

02:31:26.370 --> 02:31:32.490
You can take as much control
of it as you want or none, you

02:31:32.490 --> 02:31:34.319
don't need anyone's permission.

02:31:35.189 --> 02:31:35.689
I get it.

02:31:35.689 --> 02:31:37.893
Most police forces won't talk about it.

02:31:37.893 --> 02:31:40.118
I don't think they know even what

02:31:40.118 --> 02:31:40.754
Travis Bader: to talk

02:31:40.754 --> 02:31:41.072
Ian Sim: about.

02:31:41.072 --> 02:31:41.389
VPD.

02:31:41.920 --> 02:31:43.530
Does a women's self defense course.

02:31:43.540 --> 02:31:45.270
They have a number of female instructors.

02:31:46.020 --> 02:31:49.130
I would love to have sat in on the
course, but they wouldn't let me.

02:31:51.160 --> 02:31:51.930
No big deal.

02:31:51.989 --> 02:31:52.619
Um,

02:31:55.020 --> 02:32:03.610
even if we don't teach self defense
and talk about, uh, tools, um, we

02:32:03.610 --> 02:32:05.809
can talk about personal safety.

02:32:06.480 --> 02:32:13.260
In a, in a, in a, in a, in a very,
really, uh, I could cover everything I've

02:32:13.260 --> 02:32:16.520
covered here in, in a, in a one and a
half hour course with a half hour Q and A.

02:32:16.920 --> 02:32:17.290
Travis Bader: Right.

02:32:18.890 --> 02:32:22.380
Ian Sim: I think all police
departments need to, cause our

02:32:22.380 --> 02:32:23.520
core mandate is public safety.

02:32:24.579 --> 02:32:26.829
So we've had it, you know,
the DARE program was for don't

02:32:26.829 --> 02:32:28.114
do drugs, just so you know.

02:32:28.285 --> 02:32:32.305
Um, SEPTED, uh, crime prevention
through environmental design is,

02:32:32.315 --> 02:32:34.285
you know, to rent, B& Es, thefts.

02:32:36.155 --> 02:32:38.725
Where's the personal safety component?

02:32:39.545 --> 02:32:43.165
Travis Bader: Well, I think people are
afraid to advocate for personal safety

02:32:43.295 --> 02:32:52.090
based on, uh, Well, I think persons out
there are fearful for the consequence

02:32:52.100 --> 02:32:55.089
if they enact personal safety, because
it's not talked about, they don't know

02:32:55.089 --> 02:32:57.990
the parameters that they're allowed to
be able to deal with, and they don't

02:32:57.990 --> 02:33:00.140
know what those rights look like.

02:33:00.209 --> 02:33:04.010
And then on the other side would be,
and I'll play devil's advocate here.

02:33:04.040 --> 02:33:04.500
Please.

02:33:04.610 --> 02:33:06.685
Um, That's how you get good policy.

02:33:06.735 --> 02:33:07.185
Sure.

02:33:07.395 --> 02:33:11.605
I think governments look at
liability associated with telling

02:33:11.605 --> 02:33:15.274
people that they can protect
themselves and things go sideways.

02:33:15.285 --> 02:33:17.165
So they'll say, no, no,
no, we'll protect you.

02:33:17.285 --> 02:33:17.515
Right.

02:33:17.524 --> 02:33:18.645
Don't protect yourself.

02:33:18.665 --> 02:33:20.274
You lock yourself in the room.

02:33:20.274 --> 02:33:21.394
We'll be there in a little bit.

02:33:21.565 --> 02:33:25.695
And if they turn around and say, get
out there, protect yourself before this

02:33:25.705 --> 02:33:28.935
gets too bad, um, what do they wear?

02:33:28.935 --> 02:33:31.755
So people are so risk adverse
at all different levels.

02:33:32.630 --> 02:33:36.820
That they start creating a system
where they figure it's illusory.

02:33:36.850 --> 02:33:38.090
It's, it's, it's not real.

02:33:38.090 --> 02:33:40.709
You don't, you can't have a
police force out there that

02:33:40.709 --> 02:33:41.970
protects everybody all the time.

02:33:42.440 --> 02:33:43.249
It's reactive.

02:33:47.660 --> 02:33:57.590
Ian Sim: So I understand people's concern,
hesitancy, Liability thoughts, uh, as an

02:33:57.600 --> 02:34:05.249
organization, I'm, I doubt my company,
my outfit is going to have anything to

02:34:05.249 --> 02:34:14.620
do with, um, self defense, anything we
can, we can talk about personal safety.

02:34:16.980 --> 02:34:20.530
Uh, from a rights based perspective,

02:34:22.820 --> 02:34:24.300
and I'm not talking fluff here.

02:34:24.350 --> 02:34:25.880
I don't think we've
talked any fluff today.

02:34:26.620 --> 02:34:29.430
I think we've talked
absolutely concrete essentials.

02:34:30.690 --> 02:34:38.009
So we can have, let's say in
every police detachment, a

02:34:38.009 --> 02:34:39.664
community safety coordinator,

02:34:42.175 --> 02:34:50.515
Who can coordinate all the sections
and support services in a detachment,

02:34:52.075 --> 02:34:53.375
going in the same direction.

02:34:55.215 --> 02:35:02.594
So that would be, um, GD patrol, dealing
with domestic victims and writing safety

02:35:02.595 --> 02:35:07.900
plans and saying, you know what, There's a
couple of good books out there among many.

02:35:08.360 --> 02:35:11.320
Um, so we're going to tell you to do
this, this, this, this, all this stuff.

02:35:13.490 --> 02:35:16.449
There's a good book
called The Gift of Fear.

02:35:16.620 --> 02:35:17.590
Travis Bader: By Gavin DeBecker.

02:35:17.770 --> 02:35:17.920
It's

02:35:18.400 --> 02:35:19.850
Ian Sim: been around
for a couple of decades.

02:35:19.869 --> 02:35:20.760
It's been updated.

02:35:22.709 --> 02:35:25.789
I think that book should be
in every high school library

02:35:26.440 --> 02:35:28.090
and on every counselor's desk.

02:35:29.220 --> 02:35:33.355
I also think that school
administrators Um, should also have

02:35:33.355 --> 02:35:37.595
the book transition houses, safe
houses should all have the book.

02:35:38.345 --> 02:35:40.305
It's not deadly force,

02:35:42.915 --> 02:35:48.675
but for the vast majority of the public
who aren't that inclined or particularly

02:35:48.675 --> 02:35:52.714
interested in the self defense
component and prevention is the key.

02:35:53.414 --> 02:35:58.140
If we do a really good job on
prevention, You'll never need that stuff.

02:35:58.280 --> 02:35:59.200
It's like martial arts.

02:35:59.440 --> 02:35:59.740
Travis Bader: Right.

02:35:59.780 --> 02:36:02.990
Ian Sim: I think the, the majority
of the benefits of martial arts

02:36:03.720 --> 02:36:13.720
are, um, sense of community,
fitness, self esteem, socialization.

02:36:14.240 --> 02:36:17.050
Um, you may need it to
save your ass one day.

02:36:17.550 --> 02:36:18.929
And that's important too.

02:36:19.385 --> 02:36:22.965
It's just that you probably won't
use it for that all the time.

02:36:23.105 --> 02:36:23.405
Travis Bader: Right.

02:36:23.435 --> 02:36:27.525
Ian Sim: But all these other things
that you do get from it are fantastic.

02:36:27.555 --> 02:36:32.245
And parents can do it with their
kids, you know, I mean, super cool.

02:36:32.275 --> 02:36:32.465
Right.

02:36:32.495 --> 02:36:35.555
And most kids in martial arts, just
look at one or the two of their

02:36:35.555 --> 02:36:36.954
parents, maybe both, like it's

02:36:37.555 --> 02:36:37.754
Travis Bader: same

02:36:37.754 --> 02:36:39.504
Ian Sim: like shooting, golf, whatever.

02:36:39.705 --> 02:36:40.015
Travis Bader: Sure.

02:36:40.145 --> 02:36:45.095
Ian Sim: So from a policing perspective,
community safety coordinator, every

02:36:45.095 --> 02:36:47.505
detachment to get the detachment on board.

02:36:48.165 --> 02:36:51.095
Get victim services with Gavin
DeBecker's book, A Gift of Fear.

02:36:52.235 --> 02:36:54.455
Recommending your safety
plans to your victims.

02:36:54.935 --> 02:36:58.710
Special Victims Unit can
also Recommend it as well.

02:36:59.480 --> 02:37:01.350
Um, there are others.

02:37:02.090 --> 02:37:04.530
I just happen to think
it's one of the best.

02:37:05.060 --> 02:37:06.670
Travis Bader: What was your
big takeaway from that book?

02:37:06.790 --> 02:37:08.300
Ian Sim: Oh, where to start?

02:37:08.380 --> 02:37:09.060
Um,

02:37:13.480 --> 02:37:16.220
it has a little something
in there for everybody.

02:37:16.730 --> 02:37:20.910
They talked about media personalities.

02:37:21.400 --> 02:37:27.510
Movie stars, TV stars, straight up
domestic violence victims, a great

02:37:27.510 --> 02:37:33.260
section on, for HR people on how to
fire, um, um, problematic employees and

02:37:33.260 --> 02:37:34.920
considerations before, during and after.

02:37:37.060 --> 02:37:38.750
It'd be great for school boards.

02:37:38.790 --> 02:37:43.120
Like I just, I think for the,
cause there's going to be a whole.

02:37:43.545 --> 02:37:48.285
Segment of the population that's
going to start twitching the minute

02:37:48.295 --> 02:37:52.735
we talk about, um, civilian ATC.

02:37:52.845 --> 02:37:53.155
Sure.

02:37:53.185 --> 02:37:54.065
Authorization to carry.

02:37:54.605 --> 02:37:59.685
Um, you're going to have cops twitching,
just the thought of the LLDA, the last

02:37:59.685 --> 02:38:01.285
line of defense out carrying off shift.

02:38:02.644 --> 02:38:05.425
No, one's going to really twitch
reading Gavin DeBecker's book.

02:38:05.465 --> 02:38:05.835
Travis Bader: Hmm.

02:38:06.245 --> 02:38:06.945
Ian Sim: Um,

02:38:08.975 --> 02:38:12.135
I, I think it's a fantastic book
for the vast majority of the

02:38:12.135 --> 02:38:14.225
population, particularly policymakers.

02:38:17.155 --> 02:38:20.655
So if we get a community safety
coordinator detachment level, getting,

02:38:20.655 --> 02:38:23.865
you know, special victims unit, everyone
kind of moving in that direction,

02:38:24.465 --> 02:38:28.474
we get, um, community policing and
school liaison to try and get that

02:38:28.475 --> 02:38:32.455
book, um, in, in high school libraries
and on the counsellor's desks.

02:38:32.835 --> 02:38:35.845
We talk to our safe houses and
transition houses in our communities.

02:38:36.750 --> 02:38:42.050
Refer that book and any other book
they want to buy, victim services

02:38:42.190 --> 02:38:45.630
are dealing with the victims, right?

02:38:46.680 --> 02:38:51.070
And then we take it outside
of the detachment to the

02:38:51.070 --> 02:38:54.499
community and we focus on, um,

02:38:56.599 --> 02:38:57.369
community safety,

02:39:00.420 --> 02:39:03.749
public safety, and personal safety.

02:39:05.520 --> 02:39:08.920
Nothing contentious, no liability.

02:39:09.560 --> 02:39:10.310
It's your right.

02:39:10.640 --> 02:39:11.570
It always has been.

02:39:13.120 --> 02:39:15.420
Self preservation is
the first law of nature.

02:39:16.490 --> 02:39:19.500
Security of person is the
first law of humanity.

02:39:20.890 --> 02:39:22.110
We'll explore the charter a bit.

02:39:22.740 --> 02:39:24.310
We'll explore the criminal code a bit.

02:39:25.260 --> 02:39:27.759
We'll talk about good preventative means.

02:39:28.580 --> 02:39:30.370
The questions are always going to come up.

02:39:31.080 --> 02:39:32.019
Can I carry a knife?

02:39:32.049 --> 02:39:33.220
Can I carry a gun?

02:39:33.849 --> 02:39:35.300
All this stuff, baseball bat.

02:39:35.370 --> 02:39:36.080
It just goes on.

02:39:38.859 --> 02:39:43.210
For folks who want, worst case
scenario is you have no tools.

02:39:44.210 --> 02:39:45.780
So go empty hand first.

02:39:46.340 --> 02:39:51.210
Martial arts, then work on
tools, tools require training.

02:39:51.950 --> 02:39:57.120
They, they require, uh, considerably
more thought before, during, and after.

02:39:58.580 --> 02:40:00.260
So empty hand skills are better.

02:40:00.850 --> 02:40:07.450
Um, and before you get into empty hand
skills, you can get into other skills.

02:40:07.609 --> 02:40:07.899
Sure.

02:40:07.949 --> 02:40:10.260
De escalation, avoidance, talking.

02:40:11.200 --> 02:40:13.050
I've never had to use my martial arts.

02:40:13.080 --> 02:40:16.890
I studied a World War II style of,
of empty hand fighting, defend you.

02:40:17.520 --> 02:40:23.879
So, um, Dangerous Dan, William Fairbairn,
um, you know, uh, Shanghai Municipal

02:40:23.880 --> 02:40:27.689
Police, uh, went to, back to Britain,
Second World War and taught all the

02:40:27.689 --> 02:40:29.830
commandos, including Canadian commandos.

02:40:30.480 --> 02:40:31.970
At camp X in Ontario.

02:40:32.550 --> 02:40:37.000
Um, I learned it from a, a former
Canadian forces guy who trained

02:40:37.010 --> 02:40:41.880
with Colonel Rex Applegate in
Oregon in the years before he died.

02:40:41.880 --> 02:40:42.569
He

02:40:42.950 --> 02:40:43.560
Travis Bader: saw his book up there too.

02:40:43.670 --> 02:40:44.070
I did.

02:40:44.149 --> 02:40:44.229
Yeah.

02:40:44.870 --> 02:40:49.649
Ian Sim: So, I mean, I kind of think,
wow, Fairbairn taught Applegate.

02:40:50.290 --> 02:40:52.730
Applegate taught my
instructor and then I got it.

02:40:52.740 --> 02:40:55.230
Like the lineage, it's a very short line.

02:40:56.050 --> 02:41:00.060
And it's, it's, it's not,
it's just destroying people.

02:41:00.519 --> 02:41:00.989
Travis Bader: It's,

02:41:01.220 --> 02:41:05.190
Ian Sim: you know, few arm blows, few leg
blows and a few other unpleasant things.

02:41:05.190 --> 02:41:06.839
It's just to save your life.

02:41:07.589 --> 02:41:13.579
Um, never needed to use it at work,
probably never would, unless it was an

02:41:13.579 --> 02:41:15.340
extreme case because it's, it's not.

02:41:15.900 --> 02:41:18.010
It's not nice takedowns, come
alongs, it's none of that stuff.

02:41:18.490 --> 02:41:25.110
Um, but I've never had to use it cause
I talk to people and I use humor to,

02:41:25.800 --> 02:41:32.129
um, connect with, you can make someone
laugh, smirk even, you're, you're,

02:41:32.159 --> 02:41:33.519
you're kind of ahead of the game.

02:41:34.170 --> 02:41:39.769
You know, I've sat in rooms
with, um, heavily tattooed,

02:41:40.600 --> 02:41:42.969
um, motorcycle enthusiasts.

02:41:42.990 --> 02:41:43.400
Travis Bader: Hmm.

02:41:43.550 --> 02:41:45.810
Ian Sim: You know, everyone talks
to the police at some point.

02:41:46.680 --> 02:41:47.740
Or it's death or in jail.

02:41:47.750 --> 02:41:48.080
One of each.

02:41:48.400 --> 02:41:48.720
Um,

02:41:51.110 --> 02:41:54.860
it's all because, uh, part of it
was because it was my job and, and

02:41:54.880 --> 02:41:56.010
that was the unit I was working in.

02:41:56.010 --> 02:41:59.850
But, but part of it is because they
sought me out cause they liked me.

02:42:00.300 --> 02:42:00.480
Travis Bader: If I

02:42:00.480 --> 02:42:02.970
Ian Sim: have to talk to a
cop, who's it going to be?

02:42:03.640 --> 02:42:04.780
Somebody you respect.

02:42:05.819 --> 02:42:09.960
Or, or at least don't hate because
he liked my dog, I got a pit bull.

02:42:10.260 --> 02:42:11.690
Like we have something in common.

02:42:11.750 --> 02:42:12.000
Right.

02:42:12.010 --> 02:42:13.120
He liked my bike.

02:42:13.270 --> 02:42:13.990
He made me laugh.

02:42:13.990 --> 02:42:14.514
It's just.

02:42:14.675 --> 02:42:16.225
He just, he didn't treat me like shit.

02:42:16.275 --> 02:42:16.515
Travis Bader: Yeah.

02:42:16.545 --> 02:42:19.035
You have to feel like there's
some form of a connection there.

02:42:19.155 --> 02:42:22.815
Ian Sim: So again, you know, when
I'm talking to young constables

02:42:22.815 --> 02:42:29.715
and, and, and, you know, new in
service, um, that person might be

02:42:29.715 --> 02:42:34.744
your source one day, um, be polite.

02:42:35.860 --> 02:42:41.510
Be professional, um, humor, humor
can cross some of those boundaries,

02:42:41.650 --> 02:42:45.040
find commonality, but find
commonality with everyone you're

02:42:45.040 --> 02:42:48.170
out talking to, schools, community.

02:42:48.740 --> 02:42:49.800
You got to get out of your car.

02:42:49.830 --> 02:42:56.449
We're short staffed, people are
busy, but you know, again, um, we

02:42:56.450 --> 02:42:57.800
can do a better job in this outfit.

02:42:57.940 --> 02:42:59.460
It's not rocket science.

02:42:59.460 --> 02:43:00.190
Travis Bader: Uh,

02:43:00.190 --> 02:43:01.660
Ian Sim: defund us, not a chance.

02:43:01.970 --> 02:43:02.190
Travis Bader: It's

02:43:02.190 --> 02:43:03.340
Ian Sim: going to be more expensive.

02:43:03.400 --> 02:43:06.720
Um, but Canada can afford us.

02:43:07.150 --> 02:43:07.830
Well, I don't know.

02:43:07.850 --> 02:43:08.860
I don't know where all the money's gone.

02:43:08.870 --> 02:43:11.639
Didn't go to infrastructure, I guess.

02:43:11.640 --> 02:43:15.240
But we just, I, you know, we don't
have community safety coordinators.

02:43:15.549 --> 02:43:17.260
I think we need one in every detachment.

02:43:17.840 --> 02:43:21.010
I think we need to get the
detachment on the same page.

02:43:21.600 --> 02:43:23.969
Then we go into the community
and do the preventative stuff.

02:43:24.689 --> 02:43:26.170
We have the victims already.

02:43:26.550 --> 02:43:29.390
We should be, cause now we've
got an interested audience.

02:43:29.410 --> 02:43:29.780
Yes.

02:43:29.840 --> 02:43:33.860
Maybe for a short period of time,
but maybe not, but, and you know,

02:43:35.050 --> 02:43:38.010
we, we just get the concept of
rights when we talk at schools.

02:43:39.025 --> 02:43:42.625
Let's talk about community safety,
but throw the charter in, right?

02:43:43.145 --> 02:43:46.605
We don't need government's
permission to look out for ourselves.

02:43:47.735 --> 02:43:53.515
Exercising the most important human
right you have is not taking things

02:43:53.515 --> 02:43:56.874
into your own hands, it's not.

02:43:57.715 --> 02:44:00.894
So when you hear that, it's like time out.

02:44:01.034 --> 02:44:01.805
No, no, no.

02:44:03.025 --> 02:44:03.815
Let's have a chat.

02:44:03.865 --> 02:44:03.945
A

02:44:05.625 --> 02:44:06.635
Travis Bader: hundred percent agree.

02:44:07.600 --> 02:44:10.930
Ian, is there anything that
we should be talking about

02:44:11.010 --> 02:44:12.210
that we haven't talked about?

02:44:12.240 --> 02:44:16.230
Ian Sim: Yes, but I'll, I'll
remember it on the drive home, uh,

02:44:16.230 --> 02:44:19.860
or tonight, or when I'm debriefing
this in my head all afternoon.

02:44:20.430 --> 02:44:25.980
Um, yeah, I mean, I'll go to my coffee
shop in North Van and always with a book.

02:44:25.980 --> 02:44:26.679
Travis Bader: Yeah.

02:44:26.950 --> 02:44:27.960
Ian Sim: And have a big cup of tea.

02:44:27.960 --> 02:44:29.790
And I probably won't pick up my book once.

02:44:29.830 --> 02:44:30.180
Travis Bader: Yeah.

02:44:30.440 --> 02:44:33.360
Ian Sim: Because there's
just, uh, lots going on.

02:44:33.390 --> 02:44:33.700
Um.

02:44:33.850 --> 02:44:34.380
Travis Bader: I hear you.

02:44:34.530 --> 02:44:35.090
I hear you.

02:44:35.090 --> 02:44:35.979
I

02:44:36.060 --> 02:44:37.340
Ian Sim: jump, I apologize.

02:44:37.340 --> 02:44:38.920
Cause I, I kinda, I'm a bit of a squirrel.

02:44:38.920 --> 02:44:39.700
I jump around.

02:44:39.790 --> 02:44:39.990
Travis Bader: Yeah.

02:44:39.990 --> 02:44:40.800
I got ADHD.

02:44:40.830 --> 02:44:42.400
I can, I can chase squirrels all day.

02:44:42.420 --> 02:44:42.580
I've

02:44:42.580 --> 02:44:43.909
Ian Sim: never been assessed, but, um.

02:44:45.110 --> 02:44:48.080
You know, I, I think there's
some common themes in there.

02:44:48.600 --> 02:44:49.050
Travis Bader: There are.

02:44:49.150 --> 02:44:49.760
Ian Sim: And

02:44:51.810 --> 02:44:58.430
I need help from my
community, which is Canada.

02:44:59.160 --> 02:45:02.099
I need help from my community,
which is team Canada.

02:45:04.740 --> 02:45:07.800
And we can, we can start
turning this around.

02:45:08.305 --> 02:45:13.925
There's some big problems out there,
uh, mental health, opioid addiction,

02:45:14.735 --> 02:45:20.125
all that stuff, um, Russia, China, Iran,
like there's a lot going on in the world.

02:45:21.375 --> 02:45:27.635
So, you know, think global, but we can act
local, uh, policing can do a better job.

02:45:28.445 --> 02:45:32.315
Um, I think community safety coordinator
at every detachment, and I'll be happy

02:45:32.315 --> 02:45:35.555
to write the national course if they
want, uh, it's not rocket science.

02:45:35.815 --> 02:45:37.325
We can just do a better job.

02:45:37.665 --> 02:45:39.224
Resources are a bit of a problem.

02:45:39.504 --> 02:45:43.095
Um, we need to educate our, um, educators.

02:45:44.164 --> 02:45:47.804
We need to educate municipal,
provincial and federal politicians.

02:45:47.935 --> 02:45:54.370
It'll be easier To it, to, to, um,
engage our municipal politicians,

02:45:54.370 --> 02:45:57.140
probably they're accessible.

02:45:57.420 --> 02:45:57.760
Travis Bader: Sure.

02:45:57.850 --> 02:45:58.210
Ian Sim: Right.

02:45:58.310 --> 02:45:58.950
Um,

02:46:00.990 --> 02:46:04.980
community safety is highly
dependent on personal safety.

02:46:05.569 --> 02:46:07.020
You don't need anyone's permission.

02:46:07.390 --> 02:46:09.230
There's good resources out there.

02:46:09.739 --> 02:46:12.490
Um, deadly force by Masada Yoube.

02:46:12.950 --> 02:46:16.480
Uh, this is a history book, uh, to
keep in bear arms, but Gavin DeBecker's

02:46:16.490 --> 02:46:18.320
book, uh, the gift of fear is excellent.

02:46:19.080 --> 02:46:21.740
Um, local police department
should be able to help you.

02:46:21.780 --> 02:46:24.475
Uh, Say hi to a cop when you're out.

02:46:24.865 --> 02:46:25.085
Yeah.

02:46:25.215 --> 02:46:27.085
I mean, right now I'm
out, it's summertime.

02:46:27.195 --> 02:46:30.425
Um, and I got to carry all this cash.

02:46:30.425 --> 02:46:31.674
I carry all these loonies and toonies.

02:46:32.685 --> 02:46:34.335
My buddy's like, you
always carry your card.

02:46:34.345 --> 02:46:34.854
What's going on?

02:46:34.854 --> 02:46:37.254
I go, yeah, except for in the
summer, because there's lemonade

02:46:37.255 --> 02:46:41.374
stands out there and like, get
out of your car, talk to people.

02:46:41.385 --> 02:46:42.975
Most people like us in Canada.

02:46:43.340 --> 02:46:45.930
Contrary to what you
might hear in the media.

02:46:45.990 --> 02:46:47.740
Um, most kids like us.

02:46:47.830 --> 02:46:48.080
Travis Bader: Yeah.

02:46:48.250 --> 02:46:52.080
Ian Sim: Um, we can, we can
turn a lot of this around.

02:46:52.269 --> 02:46:58.409
Um, you and your industry, um,
should have both these books in

02:46:58.410 --> 02:46:59.690
every firearm store in the country.

02:47:01.119 --> 02:47:06.505
And why don't we start teaching, um,
Women's defensive pistol class, um,

02:47:06.905 --> 02:47:08.385
it's put in the cart before the horse.

02:47:08.845 --> 02:47:09.675
Cause we don't have civilian

02:47:10.255 --> 02:47:10.705
Travis Bader: ATC,

02:47:12.215 --> 02:47:15.375
Ian Sim: but why don't we start
teaching William women's defensive

02:47:15.375 --> 02:47:17.365
pistol courses around the country.

02:47:18.415 --> 02:47:21.984
Silver Corps, Millbrook, there's a
bunch of other people out there now.

02:47:21.985 --> 02:47:24.454
There's a lot of military people
out there who are looking for

02:47:24.954 --> 02:47:25.914
firearms instructors jobs.

02:47:26.405 --> 02:47:30.020
We could start that and, and
letting women know that, This is

02:47:30.020 --> 02:47:31.420
the most important right you have.

02:47:32.260 --> 02:47:33.590
Indigenous communities too.

02:47:34.330 --> 02:47:36.900
Um, they're looking for
economic opportunities.

02:47:38.030 --> 02:47:39.940
We are short of ranges across the country.

02:47:40.800 --> 02:47:44.830
So if you want to address some
community safety problems in your

02:47:44.830 --> 02:47:51.829
community, maybe an indoor and outdoor
range is, is, is a good economic,

02:47:51.920 --> 02:47:53.630
a viable economic opportunity.

02:47:54.345 --> 02:47:56.235
Uh, if it's indoor range,
you can shoot all winter.

02:47:56.895 --> 02:48:00.825
You're going to attract people with
a pal, all of whom proven by the

02:48:00.825 --> 02:48:02.175
government of Canada aren't criminals.

02:48:02.775 --> 02:48:06.645
Um, and let's keep this
conversation going.

02:48:06.945 --> 02:48:11.425
Um, we don't have to
wait till the feds do it.

02:48:12.055 --> 02:48:17.405
Provinces could start some of this,
if only the LLDA allowing us to

02:48:17.405 --> 02:48:19.015
carry off shift or mandating it

02:48:21.145 --> 02:48:24.045
as low risk as you can get
cost taxpayers, nothing.

02:48:24.605 --> 02:48:27.345
And let's, let's, uh, do that.

02:48:27.385 --> 02:48:30.295
Um, You know, it takes a community,
keep itself safe and let's

02:48:30.295 --> 02:48:31.415
start turning this thing around.

02:48:32.155 --> 02:48:34.625
Travis Bader: Ian, thank you so much
for being on the Suffolk Road Podcast.

02:48:34.645 --> 02:48:36.405
I really enjoyed the discussion here.

02:48:36.585 --> 02:48:37.455
Ian Sim: My pleasure.

02:48:37.455 --> 02:48:38.515
I'd heard about you.

02:48:38.554 --> 02:48:40.485
I saw you last night for my first podcast.

02:48:40.724 --> 02:48:41.835
I'm really glad I got to meet you.