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Learn how to build a better
sign and print shop from a few

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crusty sign guys who've made more
mistakes than they care to admit.

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Conversations and advice on
pricing, sales, marketing,

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workflow, growth, and more.

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Your listening to The Better Sign Shop
podcast with your hosts, Peter Unis,

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Michael O'Reilly and Bryant Gillespie.

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All right.

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All right.

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All right.

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Welcome back to another episode
of the Better Sign Shop podcast.

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I'm your host, Brian Gillespie, as
always joined by sign Shop Yoda himself.

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Peter Unis.

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What's going on, Brian?

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How you doing?

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My man?

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Hey.

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Dude, this has been forever,
since we have laid down any tracks

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in our respective studio here.

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How are you?

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I've been busy.

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I've been busy.

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We'll start out with, uh,
my twin girls are here.

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Uh, so, and, and enjoying
every day of that being a girl.

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Dad, I know that you are a girl,
dad, and you have given me a lot

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of pointers along the way, but.

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It's been, it's been one hell of a ride.

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You know, just kind of doing
and experiencing everything that

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you would normally do with a
newborn twice at the same time.

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Uh, so for those of you that are,
that have twins that are out there,

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uh, you know what I'm talking about.

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I.

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Because it's feed, double the
feedings, double the baths, double

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the diapers, double the crying, double
the whining, double the everything.

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And I already had two kids
under, under four years old.

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So we're, uh, my house is a little
bit, uh, it's fun, it's exciting,

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chaotic, and I often say surviving is
the way that I feel survival on any,

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on any given day, but in a good way.

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In a good way.

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Of course.

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Uh, my wife does a really great job.

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And, uh, shout out to her because I
couldn't do what I do without her, uh,

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her support and her being a great mom.

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Um, as far professionally as
professionally, you know, I've been in

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very involved in the sign bus, in the
sign field, in the sign shop owners field.

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Uh, I've currently taken on a lot
more clients across the country.

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I'm now on the west coast with a
couple of clients, uh, in Canada

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with a client here on the East
Coast and, uh, obviously Canada.

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A Canada a yeah, and, and
learning a lot more from.

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From their perspectives as
to what their struggles are.

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And we're gonna get into some
of that here today, I think.

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Yeah.

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Well, congrats on the twins.

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Thanks man.

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I see you.

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You still have hair, so
you're doing well there.

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Yeah, I'm losing some right here.

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I'm losing it like I've had
to change hairstyles lately.

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Uh, that's another thing that,
that's gone that I've done.

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This past few months is, uh, I went
back to my twenties haircut, like the

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haircut that I had in my twenties.

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Uh, it just didn't look good
on a man that's about to be

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in his forties body style.

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Um, I, I looked a lot thinner and
leaner in my twenties for sure, where

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that haircut was kind of amazing.

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You know, the, the high
and tight, if you will.

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Uh, try.

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Tried to hide away the fading
hairline there, but went back

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to my, uh, my forties hairstyle
here about a couple of weeks ago.

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Well, you, you saw my
experiments with, with hair.

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I did.

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What's up with the braids man?

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I think you enjoying the
girl dad life too much.

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Yeah.

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So I call it a crime of opportunity.

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We, uh, we did Disney.

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Uh, couple, uh, it was last month
and, uh, we went with a, another

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couple that we're friends with.

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They've, like, our daughters are best
friends, so we've got five girls, two

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couples at a resort down at Disney.

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We actually went to, uh, it's
the, the Hilton Signia down there.

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It's not Disney property,
but they have a shuttle.

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If you're going to Disney, that's where
I'd recommend, 'cause you could cash in

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all the Hilton points if you've got 'em.

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But aside from that, uh, we're
walking down to the pool and

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there's a, a braid station there.

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And my buddy Mike, not the sign
burrito Mike from the podcast, but

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my buddy Mike is like, Hey, why
don't you get your hair braided?

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And I was like, that is a fabulous idea.

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You know?

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So I'm like king of.

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Of making my wife aggravated,
making her sweat a bit.

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Uh, I sat there and got my hair braided.

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Little did I know that she was planning
on using the pictures from the next day

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at Magic Kingdom on our Christmas card.

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So I, uh, I was in hot
water there for a bit.

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You have absolute balls of steel.

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I, I just couldn't do,
I just couldn't do that.

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I couldn't do that.

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Wondering what my wife would think,
wondering what my friends would think.

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I mean, if a friend suggested
I should get my hair braided,

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I, I'd question our friendship.

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Uh, like we, yeah, it, I, I think it's
like when you're with your friends,

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like you're instantly transported back
to like 13 or 17 where you're just

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like, especially on vacation, right?

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You're like, oh, hey.

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Eat that or like, so it was one of those
trips, but you know, my wife ended up

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liking it, um, you know, worked out well.

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Uh, I actually got a lot
of compliments from folks,

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if you could believe it.

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Okay.

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I, I, I, I can't believe
it, but I trust you.

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I take your word for it, but
that's pretty amazing stuff.

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Yeah, man.

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Uh, other than that same man, busy.

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Uh, as you've now experienced like
girl dad, life is, uh, a bit different.

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Lots of, lots of emotions, lots of crying,
lots of hair and makeup and all that

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stuff you've got that to look forward to.

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I can't wait to catch you on
the podcast in a full makeover.

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Yeah.

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Blush and eyeshadow and lipstick.

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Yeah.

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We'll, we'll, uh, that, that
will be the day mark this episode

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down, that that will not happen.

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And if you ever see that happening, um,
that's when I've completely given up.

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It's there that when you give up,
that's when you get the minivan.

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Oh, we're on our way to
the minivan right now.

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I think

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it's the most practical choice.

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Let's dive into some practical rules
that, uh, that we're gonna talk

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about for this episode and maybe
another episode as well, don't you?

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Uh, yeah.

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Set us up here, Pete.

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Yeah.

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This is, this is something out
of your consulting practice.

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Yeah.

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Absolute.

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Absolutely.

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So here we are at the time of filming
this, uh, this episode here, it's,

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it's quarter four of year 2024, and a
lot of sign shop owners out there are.

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Looking at their numbers, and maybe
they're thrilled, maybe they're happy,

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maybe they're not happy, maybe they
start questioning, you know, how,

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what's that push towards reaching
our financial goal that we set

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forth at the beginning of the year?

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A lot of emotions can be running
wild through your head right now,

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uh, especially in quarter four.

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When you start looking at,
okay, where did the year go?

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You know, and, and, and what though my
numbers look like and where, where did

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I go wrong throughout the year or where
did we go right throughout the year?

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So one of the things that has become
abundantly clear with, uh, my cl, my

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sign shop owner clients, uh, who I
consult with on a, on a weekly basis is

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that there's no true North star to the
numbers that they should be looking at.

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And I completely, and 100% have
disagreed with that sentiment.

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You know, some people would say, yeah,
I think, uh, you know, like 30 or 40%

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of, uh, you know, labor cost is okay.

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It's just what we've always been doing.

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And, and, uh, you know, I'd look
at that and, and cringe and we

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need to kind of take a deeper lot
deeper look into what those, uh.

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What those KPIs, what are those
mastering of the financial

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foundations of your sign shop?

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What, what do you need to do to
become better going into the latter

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part of the year and obviously into
the early part of the next year?

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Because like anybody knows, the end of
the year is, uh, is a strong push towards

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the finish line, like, but the beginning
of the next year, January and February

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are notoriously slow for the industry.

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Uh, it's a slow part of the industry
and the, and the shops that are are

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busy are typically the shops during,
or that are busy at that time, that

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are handling a lot of the overflow
projects that were not completed

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in the latter part of quarter four.

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So in what I thought would be
important as to, as a way to kind of

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come back into this with a bang come
back into this podcast with a bang,

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is to do a two part episode here.

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We're not gonna be able to get through
all of these inside of one episode,

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but we'll, uh, we'll certainly stick,
you will definitely wanna stick

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around to the part two of this, uh,
of this podcast episode here that

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we'll be dropping here next week.

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So, uh, or in the upcoming
weeks, I should say,

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but down from the
mountain calms Peter with.

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The 10 Sign Shop Commandments.

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Yes, that's right.

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That's what I call them.

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I call them the 10 Sign Shop Commandments.

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Now, in order for you to master the
financial foundation of your sign

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shop, these 10 commandments are
what's going to be your North Star.

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Now, are we going to get a.

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Like a, like a full
accounting degree here.

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Like what are, what are we talking about?

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You're talking about financials.

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I know that's usually like a, it,
it's like a squishy subject for a

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lot of owners that I've talked to.

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It's like, it, it's important to know
the numbers, but as you mentioned,

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a lot of them may not know what
numbers they're trying to hit or

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what numbers they should be hitting.

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Exactly.

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And you know, I, I guess for,
for starters, I'm speaking to

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the sign shop owners that are, I.

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Diligent with reporting on their numbers.

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Not ones that are talking to
their accountant once a year

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and saying, you know, how did my
business do at the end of the year?

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Or, you know, let's, let, get me all
my bank statements and let's start

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reporting on all my financials, you
know, towards the end of the year.

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Or, you know, come tax season, I'm talking
about that sign Shop owner that pays

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attention to their profit and loss, pays
attention to their balance sheet monthly,

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if not bi month, uh, twice a month.

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That's the type of sign shop owner that
I choose to work with in my practice.

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That's the type of sign shop owner
that I feel like I can help the most.

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Because when you're not in that world,
when you're not in that world of knowing

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your numbers, knowing the pulse of your
finances, knowing the pulse of your

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business, I mean, what are we really
getting up every morning and doing?

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You're, you're a type that I would say
that you're the type of owner that's

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involved too much in your business if
you're not looking at your numbers.

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You know, you're the one that's going
out meeting the clients and you are

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the one that's project managing.

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You are the one that's coordinating
installs and speaking to your vendors

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and possibly maybe even the one in
the truck installing signs or making

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the signs or designing the signs.

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And that's not I.

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That's not my client.

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My client's the one that knows
that, you know, I can't be the

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owner in working in the business.

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I need to be on the business.

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And, and working on the business
means you need to know the numbers.

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You need to know your finances, you
need to know your percentage points,

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and you need to hit some, you need
to strive to hit those targets.

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So let's, let's shoot
right outta the bang here.

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Uh, right outta the cannon.

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Let, let, let's get, yeah,
let's get right to it here.

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Uh, we'll shoot right out of the cannon
and we'll talk about gross profit margins.

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Okay, now.

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For those of you that don't know
what your gross profit margins

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are, that's your gross sales,
minus your cost of goods sold.

231
00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:54,270
Okay?

232
00:11:54,660 --> 00:11:56,460
So your gross profit margin.

233
00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,480
Now, I'm not necessarily gonna give
you the first commandment here in

234
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,690
terms of dollars, but I am going
to give it to you in a percentage,

235
00:12:03,690 --> 00:12:04,950
'cause I'm a percentage kind of guy.

236
00:12:04,950 --> 00:12:06,480
Brian, you know.

237
00:12:07,155 --> 00:12:11,535
I would invest heavily in, in a business
that was, you know, if you're doing $5

238
00:12:11,535 --> 00:12:15,824
million and you're not hitting these
market, your markets, your markers,

239
00:12:15,824 --> 00:12:20,055
and you are netting 5%, I'd rather
invest in the company that's doing

240
00:12:20,055 --> 00:12:25,604
$500,000 and netting 20% or 10%,
you know, so, makes a total sense.

241
00:12:25,875 --> 00:12:29,354
I mean, we talked to a lot of guys that
just want to grow and grow and grow,

242
00:12:29,354 --> 00:12:31,485
but if you're not hitting the numbers.

243
00:12:31,995 --> 00:12:32,865
What's the difference?

244
00:12:32,895 --> 00:12:39,045
Like, hey, if I eke out just a, a penny
in profit and doing 10 million in revenue?

245
00:12:39,645 --> 00:12:39,885
Yeah.

246
00:12:39,944 --> 00:12:40,215
I mean,

247
00:12:40,215 --> 00:12:44,444
sometimes, sometimes people get caught
up in like the, the accolades of

248
00:12:44,444 --> 00:12:46,365
what your nets, your gross sales are.

249
00:12:46,425 --> 00:12:47,685
Oh, I'm a $10 million shop.

250
00:12:47,685 --> 00:12:48,944
I'm a $9 million shop,

251
00:12:49,005 --> 00:12:49,305
and

252
00:12:49,905 --> 00:12:50,939
just because you're doing 9

253
00:12:50,939 --> 00:12:51,314
million, that's.

254
00:12:52,725 --> 00:12:54,255
That's why all these are in percentages.

255
00:12:54,375 --> 00:12:54,915
That's the,

256
00:12:55,065 --> 00:12:56,835
that's why the most of
these are in percentages.

257
00:12:56,835 --> 00:12:59,055
Yes, because it's, it's for everyone.

258
00:12:59,055 --> 00:13:00,165
So let's start with the first one.

259
00:13:00,165 --> 00:13:07,635
Your gross profit margin should
equal or exceed 60% of your sales.

260
00:13:08,325 --> 00:13:14,475
So that means if you did a hundred
dollars, you need to profit

261
00:13:14,535 --> 00:13:17,655
$60 after the material cost.

262
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:19,770
That's, that's kind of where that is.

263
00:13:19,770 --> 00:13:21,660
If I can break it down to a simple number.

264
00:13:22,110 --> 00:13:27,480
If you sell something for a hundred, you
know, you want your, you want your profit

265
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,580
before your office expenses and your
overhead expenses to be $60 of that 100.

266
00:13:32,580 --> 00:13:37,260
So you want about at least anywhere
from zero to $40 being your

267
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,480
material cost on that project.

268
00:13:40,110 --> 00:13:40,260
Okay?

269
00:13:40,260 --> 00:13:45,750
So that's what I meant by when I say gross
profit margin should equal or exceed.

270
00:13:47,115 --> 00:13:48,735
60% of your net sales.

271
00:13:49,215 --> 00:13:50,115
Any comments on that?

272
00:13:51,285 --> 00:13:55,845
I, I like that number, but where did
you, where did you pull this from?

273
00:13:56,835 --> 00:13:58,035
Where did I pull this from?

274
00:13:58,035 --> 00:13:58,965
That great question.

275
00:13:59,145 --> 00:14:01,605
Where did these sign 10 Sign
Shop Commandments come from?

276
00:14:01,605 --> 00:14:01,875
Bryant.

277
00:14:01,935 --> 00:14:04,485
I, I mean, I'm not gonna tell you
that, I'm not gonna tell you that.

278
00:14:04,485 --> 00:14:08,175
They, they, they come, they
come from years and years of.

279
00:14:08,955 --> 00:14:13,785
Profit and loss management, multiple
different profitable sign shops.

280
00:14:14,444 --> 00:14:15,795
Uh, it didn't come from Moses.

281
00:14:15,795 --> 00:14:17,115
Is that, if that's what you're asking?

282
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:22,215
That's, that's, that's where most of
the pricing comes from for the majority

283
00:14:22,215 --> 00:14:24,975
of, of, oh, hey, what's the price?

284
00:14:24,975 --> 00:14:25,875
That feels fair.

285
00:14:25,935 --> 00:14:26,205
No.

286
00:14:26,235 --> 00:14:26,715
Yeah.

287
00:14:26,805 --> 00:14:28,694
It didn't come from thin air either.

288
00:14:28,694 --> 00:14:29,775
It didn't come from thin air.

289
00:14:29,775 --> 00:14:31,220
You know, we're talking about looking at.

290
00:14:31,550 --> 00:14:37,069
Dozens, if not hundreds of profit and
losses in my career for sign shop owners

291
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:41,600
across the country and coaching and,
and learning from some of the best

292
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,780
franchise systems in the country on
what they're looking for in terms of

293
00:14:44,780 --> 00:14:46,819
their units and their unit economics.

294
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:52,100
60% is a really great, healthy number,
but it could equal or exceed that.

295
00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:56,000
So it can be better, uh, but you
don't want it to go below 60%.

296
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:56,750
That's the key there.

297
00:14:56,750 --> 00:14:59,930
So when you take a look at
your, your first primary KPI,

298
00:14:59,930 --> 00:15:01,250
it's, what did you do in sales?

299
00:15:01,785 --> 00:15:05,145
What did we do in cost of goods
and what is that percentage there?

300
00:15:05,145 --> 00:15:07,935
And that is sign shop
commandment number one.

301
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:09,120
One.

302
00:15:09,870 --> 00:15:14,070
So when you mosey on down the profit and
loss here, what's after cost of goods?

303
00:15:14,070 --> 00:15:19,020
Typically, in most, uh, profit and loss
architecture format, you're kind of

304
00:15:19,020 --> 00:15:21,990
looking at next would be labor, right?

305
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:26,070
So now you, you have material and
now you mosey on down past material.

306
00:15:26,070 --> 00:15:30,660
And we're looking at, okay, how much
did it cost in labor to produce?

307
00:15:30,660 --> 00:15:34,410
So this is a very simple,
uh, very simple one because.

308
00:15:35,505 --> 00:15:39,105
We're talking about physical wages here.

309
00:15:39,315 --> 00:15:42,705
We're talking about the designer,
the sign maker, the installer.

310
00:15:42,855 --> 00:15:47,055
We're not talking about in this
particular KPI, we're not talking

311
00:15:47,055 --> 00:15:50,145
about any type of support labor.

312
00:15:50,325 --> 00:15:54,915
We're talking about direct labor, so KPI
number two, at commandment number two.

313
00:15:56,145 --> 00:15:59,625
We should have like some sort
of like angel noise when Yeah.

314
00:15:59,625 --> 00:15:59,805
Like

315
00:16:02,235 --> 00:16:02,535
there you go.

316
00:16:03,165 --> 00:16:03,555
I dig it.

317
00:16:04,215 --> 00:16:12,885
Commandment number two, direct labor
should not exceed 20% of your net sales.

318
00:16:14,325 --> 00:16:15,705
Okay, so let's, let's go back.

319
00:16:16,305 --> 00:16:17,535
What is direct labor?

320
00:16:18,375 --> 00:16:20,085
What is direct labor we're talking about?

321
00:16:20,430 --> 00:16:25,920
People in your business that are direct,
that are directly connected to, to

322
00:16:26,430 --> 00:16:29,550
the sale, to the, to, to the product.

323
00:16:29,730 --> 00:16:30,030
Okay.

324
00:16:30,030 --> 00:16:35,040
We're not talking about CSRs, we're
not talking about project managers.

325
00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:39,630
We're talking about people that
are directly connected to the sale.

326
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,560
I'm all, some people would put
salespeople in this category, and I

327
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,689
feel like there's about a 50 50 split.

328
00:16:46,785 --> 00:16:50,505
Of, um, of people that
would put salespeople like

329
00:16:50,535 --> 00:16:52,515
territory sales, outside sales.

330
00:16:52,604 --> 00:16:52,694
Mm-hmm.

331
00:16:53,114 --> 00:16:53,385
Um.

332
00:16:54,495 --> 00:16:59,265
Personally, I'm on the fence on this,
but I would lean on not including

333
00:16:59,265 --> 00:17:00,645
that in this percentage point.

334
00:17:00,885 --> 00:17:02,445
I'm talking about your designers.

335
00:17:02,445 --> 00:17:06,225
I'm talking about your production guys,
your installers, your electrical guys,

336
00:17:06,585 --> 00:17:08,444
you know your welders, your painters.

337
00:17:08,925 --> 00:17:09,105
Yeah.

338
00:17:09,525 --> 00:17:14,175
The resources that you are using to
build the actual product that you sell.

339
00:17:14,645 --> 00:17:15,004
Correct.

340
00:17:15,484 --> 00:17:18,484
Now, we'll get into the rest of those
people in, in a minute here, later,

341
00:17:18,665 --> 00:17:22,115
uh, later on in, in, in, in part two.

342
00:17:22,444 --> 00:17:24,784
But in part one here,
commandment number two.

343
00:17:24,784 --> 00:17:29,195
Direct labor should not
exceed 20% of your net sales.

344
00:17:30,165 --> 00:17:34,215
So if we go back up to that
a hundred dollars, right?

345
00:17:34,335 --> 00:17:41,205
We've got $40 or 40 bucks in
cost of goods, labor should not

346
00:17:41,205 --> 00:17:43,875
exceed $20 of that a hundred bucks

347
00:17:44,264 --> 00:17:44,625
right?

348
00:17:44,895 --> 00:17:50,534
Now, remember, remember, do not
exceed because you can be 10% cost

349
00:17:50,534 --> 00:17:55,125
of goods, 20% cost of goods, but
you shouldn't be more than 40%.

350
00:17:56,024 --> 00:17:56,264
Okay?

351
00:17:56,264 --> 00:17:58,845
So that's what it's saying
there, and you shouldn't.

352
00:17:59,550 --> 00:18:01,290
Be exceeding 20%.

353
00:18:01,290 --> 00:18:04,080
So your direct labor costs
could be less than 20% too.

354
00:18:04,290 --> 00:18:07,680
Uh, if you take a look at your p and
ls everyone and see if that's what's

355
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:12,420
what you got going on, but it shouldn't
be more than 20% of your net sales Now

356
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:15,870
com sign Shop commandment number three.

357
00:18:16,380 --> 00:18:18,000
We're kind of moseying through this here.

358
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,050
I'm moseying through this year.

359
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:21,840
Let's go back to.

360
00:18:22,845 --> 00:18:26,504
Commandment number one, we talked
about gross profit margins should

361
00:18:26,835 --> 00:18:29,205
equal or exceed 60% of net sales.

362
00:18:29,205 --> 00:18:31,965
And we kind of referenced
materials minus what that is.

363
00:18:31,965 --> 00:18:35,085
That formula there is sales
minus materials, but what

364
00:18:35,085 --> 00:18:36,524
should materials really be?

365
00:18:37,425 --> 00:18:39,555
So materials and parts.

366
00:18:39,675 --> 00:18:39,885
Okay.

367
00:18:39,889 --> 00:18:40,365
Uh uh.

368
00:18:40,365 --> 00:18:43,995
Some people, if they're using
shop box, they call it parts, uh,

369
00:18:43,995 --> 00:18:48,495
materials in general can be anything
in your shop that is used in.

370
00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:53,340
Your business from transfer tape
to banner tape, to grommets,

371
00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:56,760
to substrates, inks, um,

372
00:18:59,010 --> 00:19:00,420
electrical accessories

373
00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:07,680
should not exceed 17% of your net sales.

374
00:19:08,129 --> 00:19:10,680
Okay, so we're saying now that.

375
00:19:12,540 --> 00:19:15,570
When you populate all of those
expenses, you go to your supply

376
00:19:15,570 --> 00:19:17,040
house, you're going to Grim Co.

377
00:19:17,070 --> 00:19:18,840
You're going to your local supply house.

378
00:19:19,169 --> 00:19:22,260
You're ordering materials every day,
every week, whatever that looks like.

379
00:19:22,290 --> 00:19:23,820
Vinyls, inks.

380
00:19:24,330 --> 00:19:24,540
Yep.

381
00:19:24,750 --> 00:19:28,560
Make sure that you're classifying
those purchases correctly.

382
00:19:29,790 --> 00:19:33,030
Because you can skew this
number pretty easily.

383
00:19:33,479 --> 00:19:35,699
I'll give you an example of
one of my clients that has

384
00:19:35,699 --> 00:19:36,959
skewed this pretty easily.

385
00:19:37,679 --> 00:19:40,679
They would do a weekly
order with their supplier.

386
00:19:40,679 --> 00:19:42,030
I believe they use Grimm Co.

387
00:19:42,449 --> 00:19:45,780
And they would order everything under
the sun because of where they're located.

388
00:19:45,780 --> 00:19:46,889
They only do Grimm Co.

389
00:19:46,889 --> 00:19:49,590
Only does like a once
a week delivery truck.

390
00:19:49,679 --> 00:19:50,219
Yep, yep.

391
00:19:50,514 --> 00:19:50,965
Been there.

392
00:19:52,024 --> 00:19:54,360
So when they send, set out
an order, they're ordering

393
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:56,820
substrates, they're ordering, um.

394
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:02,700
Supplies like exacto, knives, blades,
cleaning, flu, uh, application

395
00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:05,490
fluid adhesive remover, you name it.

396
00:20:05,490 --> 00:20:05,730
Right?

397
00:20:05,730 --> 00:20:07,680
They're, they're, they're
ordering everything.

398
00:20:08,250 --> 00:20:12,060
But what what's interesting here is
that they're also ordering things that

399
00:20:12,060 --> 00:20:15,240
like, uh, perhaps inventory in bulk.

400
00:20:15,660 --> 00:20:16,170
Okay?

401
00:20:16,770 --> 00:20:19,230
Uh, which is not a profit in loss item.

402
00:20:19,230 --> 00:20:20,160
That should be a.

403
00:20:20,580 --> 00:20:21,570
Balance sheet item.

404
00:20:21,570 --> 00:20:23,370
We'll, we will talk about
that in a later time.

405
00:20:23,370 --> 00:20:28,560
But the proper accounting here, if
you are purchasing materials in bulk,

406
00:20:29,010 --> 00:20:32,670
it's not a purchase that goes on
your p and l, it's a purchase that

407
00:20:32,670 --> 00:20:33,990
actually goes on your balance sheet.

408
00:20:34,020 --> 00:20:36,390
'cause it's not yet tied to a job.

409
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:40,380
So it's an asset for your business,
not necessarily an expense.

410
00:20:41,010 --> 00:20:44,190
Uh, another example of
this would be mixing.

411
00:20:44,564 --> 00:20:46,245
Materials with other items.

412
00:20:46,245 --> 00:20:52,395
Like if you're going to Home Depot and
you're buying things like, uh, screws and

413
00:20:52,395 --> 00:20:58,365
hardware for a project, but you're also
buying garbage bags and you know, cleaning

414
00:20:58,365 --> 00:21:03,070
supplies for your office or toilet paper,
paper towels, whatever it is, right?

415
00:21:04,064 --> 00:21:07,004
And you're doing that on a
consistent basis, well, those items

416
00:21:07,004 --> 00:21:08,955
are not really cost of materials.

417
00:21:08,955 --> 00:21:12,584
Those are office supplies, and
that's an overhead expense and not.

418
00:21:12,945 --> 00:21:15,045
A cost of materials expense.

419
00:21:15,465 --> 00:21:19,485
So some of this might sound simple,
but you can easily screw up if you just

420
00:21:19,485 --> 00:21:24,915
look at the total number on an invoice
that you paid at a Costco, a Lowe's, a

421
00:21:24,915 --> 00:21:28,305
Home Depot, wherever you're buying your
materials from and saying, oh, yeah,

422
00:21:28,305 --> 00:21:31,335
I, I took $500 and I spent $500 here.

423
00:21:31,365 --> 00:21:35,505
Well, maybe only $300 of those
items were cost of goods.

424
00:21:35,505 --> 00:21:38,415
So you have to actually look at
the line item on the receipt.

425
00:21:39,060 --> 00:21:44,010
Classify it correctly, and the shops
that actually are doing this well are.

426
00:21:44,969 --> 00:21:49,020
Understanding the accounting part, and
they're breaking apart their orders

427
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,530
into, these are my material orders, these
are my office supply orders, these are

428
00:21:52,530 --> 00:21:56,459
my cleaning supply orders, and they're
checking out with one vendor, but

429
00:21:56,459 --> 00:21:58,320
they're processing the order separately.

430
00:21:58,439 --> 00:22:02,879
So they're breaking it down into three
separate invoices for easy reporting.

431
00:22:02,879 --> 00:22:02,939
Yeah.

432
00:22:03,449 --> 00:22:06,540
Uh, which you know, is just a couple
of extra steps because when you're

433
00:22:06,554 --> 00:22:08,074
in that type of sign shop that is.

434
00:22:08,985 --> 00:22:10,725
Always on the rush, always on the move.

435
00:22:11,205 --> 00:22:13,725
I gotta meet these deadlines and,
you know, it's always that you're

436
00:22:13,725 --> 00:22:15,345
always moving at a speed of a hundred.

437
00:22:16,395 --> 00:22:20,325
It could be easily forgotten
these particular steps.

438
00:22:20,805 --> 00:22:20,985
Yeah.

439
00:22:21,015 --> 00:22:21,430
You know, well

440
00:22:21,430 --> 00:22:23,235
it, it's all about prep
work as well, right.

441
00:22:23,235 --> 00:22:27,675
That you've gotta have, you gotta have
the, the foundation, you gotta have

442
00:22:27,675 --> 00:22:32,655
all this stuff set up to, to codify it
correctly, to make sure that like the you,

443
00:22:32,715 --> 00:22:36,555
you can actually get to the point where
these numbers are actionable for you.

444
00:22:36,975 --> 00:22:37,065
Right.

445
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:39,990
So, uh.

446
00:22:41,025 --> 00:22:45,615
Yeah, so I, I, I've seen a lot of
QuickBooks over the years, uh, for

447
00:22:45,615 --> 00:22:50,175
shop owners and, uh, I can tell
you that like, no, like chart of

448
00:22:50,175 --> 00:22:53,025
accounts is the same across the board.

449
00:22:53,145 --> 00:22:55,335
Uh, but that is a very important step.

450
00:22:55,754 --> 00:23:00,315
It's, uh, you know, you need to take
the time to really sit down, go through

451
00:23:00,315 --> 00:23:03,615
it with your accountant, or they,
somebody who is, who is knowledgeable

452
00:23:03,615 --> 00:23:07,965
about that, and figure out where you're
gonna code these things at and, and

453
00:23:07,965 --> 00:23:09,135
what those accounts are gonna be.

454
00:23:09,930 --> 00:23:10,680
Yeah, for sure.

455
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,190
You know, as many of our
audience members know, I come

456
00:23:14,190 --> 00:23:15,690
from the franchise world, right?

457
00:23:15,690 --> 00:23:19,440
So when you're in the franchise, the
franchise supplies you with, this

458
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,090
is the franchise chart of accounts.

459
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:22,950
There is no deviating from it.

460
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:25,020
We've thought of everything and
everything has got a little chart

461
00:23:25,020 --> 00:23:28,050
of account number that can assign
the little list things to it.

462
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:33,630
But when you're mixing, uh, when,
when, when you don't have that value,

463
00:23:33,630 --> 00:23:36,060
when you don't have that value of
becoming a franchise and you don't

464
00:23:36,060 --> 00:23:39,120
wanna be in going down that path and
you have to do your own bookkeeping.

465
00:23:39,690 --> 00:23:43,500
One of the best things for you to
do is really to have a, a constant

466
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:48,450
communication with your bookkeeper
about similar like expenses.

467
00:23:48,450 --> 00:23:53,820
So if you're making material expenses
on the regular, inform your bookkeeper,

468
00:23:53,820 --> 00:23:55,230
like, no, this is a cost of goods.

469
00:23:55,230 --> 00:23:58,050
Anything, anytime you see this vendor.

470
00:23:59,340 --> 00:24:01,710
Charged on my debit
card, charged on my Amex.

471
00:24:01,710 --> 00:24:04,710
Anytime you see a check written
out to this vendor, you know, that

472
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:09,389
is a typically going to be 98% of
the time, a cost of goods expense.

473
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:16,590
However, when you do run into that
situation where, okay, we just

474
00:24:16,590 --> 00:24:20,129
spent $500, but a hundred dollars
of that is an office supplies and

475
00:24:20,129 --> 00:24:25,439
toilet paper for the bathrooms and
you know, soap and hand towels, and.

476
00:24:26,445 --> 00:24:27,675
Scented candles.

477
00:24:27,735 --> 00:24:32,985
You know, just for the typical shop
office, you have to notify that bookkeeper

478
00:24:32,985 --> 00:24:38,685
of yours and say, Hey, look, I just
made this $500 expense on November 15th.

479
00:24:39,795 --> 00:24:44,055
And a hundred dollars of that
is going into office supplies.

480
00:24:44,055 --> 00:24:46,995
I just wanted to let you know,
uh, here's the receipt and that's

481
00:24:46,995 --> 00:24:50,565
how you should be communicating
with your monthly bookkeeper.

482
00:24:50,565 --> 00:24:53,205
And if you don't have a monthly
bookkeeper, I personally

483
00:24:53,205 --> 00:24:54,915
strongly advise you to get one.

484
00:24:55,695 --> 00:25:00,405
Uh, because if you should, you should
not be an owner, uh, without one.

485
00:25:00,435 --> 00:25:03,915
You should not be in owning a sign
shop without a monthly bookkeeper.

486
00:25:03,915 --> 00:25:04,875
They're not expensive.

487
00:25:04,875 --> 00:25:06,254
$200, $300.

488
00:25:06,254 --> 00:25:07,125
You could do this remote.

489
00:25:07,125 --> 00:25:08,865
You could do this with a, you know.

490
00:25:09,375 --> 00:25:12,315
Someone in the Philippines, or even
someone in your local market if you, if

491
00:25:12,315 --> 00:25:14,235
you even want, but they're not expensive.

492
00:25:14,655 --> 00:25:17,325
Uh, but it is important for
you to have accurate numbers.

493
00:25:18,165 --> 00:25:21,645
All right, so just to recap,
10% gross profit margins should

494
00:25:21,675 --> 00:25:24,195
equal or exceed 60% of net sales.

495
00:25:24,195 --> 00:25:24,885
That's number one.

496
00:25:25,395 --> 00:25:30,555
Number two, direct labor should
not exceed 20% of net sales.

497
00:25:30,915 --> 00:25:31,335
Cool.

498
00:25:31,365 --> 00:25:33,225
Got that Number three.

499
00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:40,139
Materials and or parts should
not exceed 17% of your net sales.

500
00:25:40,770 --> 00:25:40,919
Okay?

501
00:25:40,919 --> 00:25:46,950
We often get in this industry, I know I
did for the explosive profit margins and

502
00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:52,230
the materials and parts reason is one
of those reasons why it's so amazing,

503
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:56,460
you know, uh, what, how much money you
can make off of a $10 sheet of Carlas.

504
00:25:56,730 --> 00:25:57,330
You tell me.

505
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:58,379
You know what I mean?

506
00:25:58,379 --> 00:26:00,510
Like it's a, yeah, like the mark you got.

507
00:26:00,510 --> 00:26:01,350
Some have always been

508
00:26:01,350 --> 00:26:01,560
good.

509
00:26:01,949 --> 00:26:06,449
You got some really great explosive profit
margins here in the sign shop world.

510
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,320
Okay, number four, sign, shop
commandment, number four.

511
00:26:12,209 --> 00:26:14,520
Okay, so we're moseying on
down that profit and loss.

512
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,750
Now we got sales, we got cost of
goods, we got materials, we got labor.

513
00:26:19,260 --> 00:26:20,580
Now we're gonna talk about.

514
00:26:21,285 --> 00:26:23,205
Overhead with the the mosey thing.

515
00:26:24,765 --> 00:26:27,195
Like, Hey, T, I'm thinking commandments.

516
00:26:27,255 --> 00:26:28,125
I'm thinking Moses.

517
00:26:28,515 --> 00:26:29,145
Oh no,

518
00:26:29,145 --> 00:26:30,195
mosey on down.

519
00:26:30,195 --> 00:26:32,385
It's kind like, just like
perusing, like giving a walk

520
00:26:32,385 --> 00:26:34,905
down, Jo, down the know I got it.

521
00:26:34,905 --> 00:26:35,475
No, I got it.

522
00:26:35,805 --> 00:26:36,075
All right.

523
00:26:36,675 --> 00:26:37,605
Sign Shop commandment.

524
00:26:37,605 --> 00:26:38,265
Number four.

525
00:26:38,595 --> 00:26:41,565
Number four, operating expenses.

526
00:26:42,615 --> 00:26:44,415
Now every shop here is very different.

527
00:26:44,415 --> 00:26:44,715
Brian.

528
00:26:44,745 --> 00:26:47,775
You know that there's big shops,
there's small shops, there's two

529
00:26:47,775 --> 00:26:49,875
man shops, there's 20 man shops.

530
00:26:50,340 --> 00:26:50,820
Okay.

531
00:26:51,150 --> 00:26:54,960
Every sign shop, no matter what, is
going to have different expenses.

532
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,020
And this my friend, you
and I know this very well.

533
00:26:58,470 --> 00:27:04,200
This is the reason why pricing is off the
charts different from one shop to another.

534
00:27:04,530 --> 00:27:04,860
Okay?

535
00:27:04,860 --> 00:27:09,120
When we talk about pricing and products
and being priced out of the market, this

536
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:14,100
my friends, is why pricing is different
from shop to shop operating expenses.

537
00:27:14,639 --> 00:27:15,929
Sign, shop commandment.

538
00:27:16,020 --> 00:27:23,909
Number four, your operating expenses
should not exceed 48% of net sales.

539
00:27:24,899 --> 00:27:25,080
Okay?

540
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,659
Should not exceed if you're doing okay.

541
00:27:27,659 --> 00:27:32,010
If you're hovering 48%, maybe
you're doing 49, 51 month, and then

542
00:27:32,010 --> 00:27:36,090
you're at 44 some months, you're
probably having some cashflow issues.

543
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,179
You gotta really look
at your expenses here.

544
00:27:39,179 --> 00:27:42,240
You gotta take a strong look
at your overhead, your phone

545
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,639
bill, your utilities, your rent.

546
00:27:44,820 --> 00:27:46,409
What are the bigger, what are the hammer?

547
00:27:46,409 --> 00:27:48,929
The bigger hammers here is rent.

548
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:49,740
Okay.

549
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:49,980
Mm.

550
00:27:50,699 --> 00:27:54,629
And, and surprisingly, one of the ones
that I actually love the most, and I

551
00:27:54,629 --> 00:28:00,000
know you know this, but there are a lot
of shops investing a lot more money than

552
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,980
that they spend in rent in technology.

553
00:28:02,580 --> 00:28:03,060
Okay.

554
00:28:03,449 --> 00:28:06,240
Like RIP software,
graphic design software.

555
00:28:06,659 --> 00:28:07,050
Mm.

556
00:28:07,649 --> 00:28:07,889
Yeah.

557
00:28:08,250 --> 00:28:15,300
POS software, Zapier, they're, you know,
field management software, company cam,

558
00:28:15,300 --> 00:28:20,040
things like this that are just adding up,
you know, you gotta look at all of that.

559
00:28:20,669 --> 00:28:20,820
Yeah.

560
00:28:20,850 --> 00:28:23,610
Uh, as some of your
bigger, heavy hitters here.

561
00:28:23,639 --> 00:28:26,669
If you have, um, if
you part of a, that was

562
00:28:26,669 --> 00:28:30,300
gonna be my question is like, if we
back up like what, you know, you've

563
00:28:30,300 --> 00:28:33,060
mentioned these things, but like
what goes under operating expenses?

564
00:28:33,060 --> 00:28:33,090
I.

565
00:28:34,290 --> 00:28:38,370
So that's gonna be your typical people
can, uh, call 'em overhead expenses.

566
00:28:38,370 --> 00:28:40,560
People call 'em operating expenses.

567
00:28:40,830 --> 00:28:42,960
Uh, people call 'em business expenses.

568
00:28:43,020 --> 00:28:45,840
You know, your tip, everyday run
of the mill expenses that you're

569
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,640
gonna have in your business.

570
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,290
So rent cam charges, perhaps
you're paying taxes on the

571
00:28:52,290 --> 00:28:54,480
building that you own or every,

572
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,060
everything that goes into
keeping the light on whether

573
00:28:57,060 --> 00:28:58,740
you make the first sign or not.

574
00:28:59,040 --> 00:28:59,430
Yep.

575
00:28:59,550 --> 00:29:02,010
Credit card fee, merchant fees.

576
00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:02,130
Um.

577
00:29:04,305 --> 00:29:05,025
Let's see.

578
00:29:05,085 --> 00:29:05,925
Let me think of a couple.

579
00:29:05,925 --> 00:29:09,825
Your phone bill, your electric bill,
you know all of your utilities.

580
00:29:09,885 --> 00:29:14,805
If you have a lease, a printer, lease
payment or insurance that you're paying.

581
00:29:14,805 --> 00:29:19,965
Car insurance, gas, uh, you're gonna
look at all of these expenses and

582
00:29:19,965 --> 00:29:22,755
classify them as an operating expense.

583
00:29:23,355 --> 00:29:27,555
Now, we talked a little
bit about this, okay?

584
00:29:27,765 --> 00:29:30,315
Just a little bit, but.

585
00:29:31,095 --> 00:29:36,135
You're gonna also, you're what a
problem that I also see here is that

586
00:29:37,605 --> 00:29:40,845
for the support labor items, uh, okay.

587
00:29:41,355 --> 00:29:42,675
You're clairvoyant.

588
00:29:42,675 --> 00:29:46,095
That was, that was my next question
is like, does labor go in here?

589
00:29:46,095 --> 00:29:46,365
Not

590
00:29:47,055 --> 00:29:47,595
correct.

591
00:29:47,835 --> 00:29:51,075
You know, there's a lot of people
that mess up their p and l statement.

592
00:29:51,405 --> 00:29:54,495
You know, when they look at their p and
l statement, they're putting labor in.

593
00:29:55,335 --> 00:29:58,935
Operating expenses, your designer
salary and, and things like that.

594
00:29:58,940 --> 00:30:02,145
And, and, and the reality is,
is that you should not, okay.

595
00:30:03,015 --> 00:30:05,745
If you're not, if you're not
classifying direct labor, then the

596
00:30:05,745 --> 00:30:10,575
next type of, there's only two other
types of labor categories that should

597
00:30:10,575 --> 00:30:14,055
be listed on your p and l support.

598
00:30:14,055 --> 00:30:17,745
Labor is the first, that's
gonna be everyone else that's

599
00:30:17,745 --> 00:30:19,485
not related to the project.

600
00:30:19,815 --> 00:30:23,595
Or a signed sale, you know, maybe
if you have a bookkeeper or a

601
00:30:23,595 --> 00:30:27,705
controller or a CSR, your sales staff.

602
00:30:28,545 --> 00:30:28,905
Okay.

603
00:30:28,905 --> 00:30:31,155
Maybe you have an inbound sales person.

604
00:30:31,695 --> 00:30:35,805
Uh, maybe you have a, maybe you
have like, um, operations manager.

605
00:30:36,225 --> 00:30:40,935
Yeah, like a foreman or, yeah, an
operations manager or, or I was gonna

606
00:30:40,935 --> 00:30:42,645
say like a general manager here.

607
00:30:43,470 --> 00:30:46,590
I'm trying to think of some others just
in case that somebody has somebody here.

608
00:30:46,980 --> 00:30:50,160
Uh, field supervisor would be another.

609
00:30:50,670 --> 00:30:54,750
If you have any of these types of people
that necess their ru, their job is to

610
00:30:54,750 --> 00:30:58,320
make sure that the job gets done, but
they're not necessarily swinging a hammer.

611
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:03,210
They're just more upper management or,
you know, maybe even in, in, in a sense

612
00:31:03,210 --> 00:31:07,530
of running your business or just running a
department that's gonna be support labor.

613
00:31:08,325 --> 00:31:11,145
Bookkeepers, if you have an, if you
have a train, we, we've had some people

614
00:31:11,145 --> 00:31:14,685
on this podcast that had trainers
on their full-time staff, right?

615
00:31:14,685 --> 00:31:19,125
So these are all support labor line items.

616
00:31:20,024 --> 00:31:22,784
And then the second one, or
in this case the third one.

617
00:31:22,784 --> 00:31:24,045
'cause you have direct labor as well.

618
00:31:24,645 --> 00:31:24,675
I.

619
00:31:24,675 --> 00:31:27,254
Would be, you know, owner salaries.

620
00:31:27,405 --> 00:31:31,395
Where, where is your salary in this and,
and is that gonna go under support labor?

621
00:31:31,875 --> 00:31:34,785
I don't recommend it because you are,
some days you're paying yourself,

622
00:31:34,785 --> 00:31:37,515
some days you're not, some days you're
taking a bonus, a significant bonus.

623
00:31:37,515 --> 00:31:38,835
Some day, some months you're not.

624
00:31:39,405 --> 00:31:42,045
So you should absolutely
be breaking yourself down.

625
00:31:42,765 --> 00:31:43,155
Uh.

626
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,210
Outta that labor as well.

627
00:31:45,210 --> 00:31:47,970
So owner salaries maybe
that you have partners.

628
00:31:47,970 --> 00:31:50,490
So you gotta really kind of break
down like, this is my salary, this

629
00:31:50,490 --> 00:31:52,230
is this owner salary, et cetera.

630
00:31:52,890 --> 00:31:57,990
Um, so definitely break that
down to direct labor, support,

631
00:31:57,990 --> 00:32:00,090
labor, and then owner salaries.

632
00:32:00,090 --> 00:32:00,150
I.

633
00:32:01,065 --> 00:32:04,275
So now the first, I think where you
were going with that is should any of

634
00:32:04,275 --> 00:32:06,585
this be considered an operating expense?

635
00:32:07,575 --> 00:32:11,655
And, you know, some shops, some shops can
put that support labor in that category.

636
00:32:11,955 --> 00:32:12,315
Okay.

637
00:32:12,705 --> 00:32:16,335
Um, personally, I'm not,
I'm not all for that.

638
00:32:16,335 --> 00:32:19,035
I'll, I'm always breaking
down labor separately.

639
00:32:19,395 --> 00:32:19,665
Okay.

640
00:32:19,665 --> 00:32:22,065
I, I'm looking at operating expenses as.

641
00:32:22,679 --> 00:32:26,669
Things that you need to make that business
run, whether you're operating or not.

642
00:32:26,820 --> 00:32:29,520
You know, you have these expenses
every month no matter what.

643
00:32:30,389 --> 00:32:35,429
Uh, so like I said, those should
not exceed 48% of net sales.

644
00:32:37,290 --> 00:32:38,610
Now, getting to the last one here.

645
00:32:38,610 --> 00:32:40,889
Sign shop commandment number five.

646
00:32:40,919 --> 00:32:41,550
Okay.

647
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:46,139
I think we could talk, I think I left
it number five for a reason, because

648
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,460
I feel like almost every single
person I talk to about this has.

649
00:32:51,389 --> 00:32:55,440
No clue what their percentage is.

650
00:32:56,669 --> 00:33:02,760
Um, it is the one that we talk about
a lot in my, in our coaching sessions.

651
00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:05,850
It's the one that fluctuates the most.

652
00:33:05,850 --> 00:33:05,879
I.

653
00:33:06,915 --> 00:33:09,375
Uh, it can be expensive
then it could be zero.

654
00:33:09,379 --> 00:33:10,185
Zero the next month.

655
00:33:10,365 --> 00:33:10,635
Yep.

656
00:33:10,665 --> 00:33:10,965
Yeah.

657
00:33:10,965 --> 00:33:11,175
Yeah.

658
00:33:11,175 --> 00:33:16,695
So it's the hardest one to keep track
of because I'm not gonna lie to you

659
00:33:16,695 --> 00:33:20,865
here, Brian, and maybe our audience
won't like this, but a a, a large chunk

660
00:33:20,865 --> 00:33:22,875
of sign shop owners out there are lazy.

661
00:33:23,565 --> 00:33:26,200
Are lazy, or this is

662
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,120
a mic dropping there.

663
00:33:28,620 --> 00:33:28,840
Bam.

664
00:33:29,355 --> 00:33:29,745
Yeah.

665
00:33:29,805 --> 00:33:32,504
Well, uh, I'm able to say
it because I used to be one.

666
00:33:33,345 --> 00:33:33,465
Yep.

667
00:33:33,495 --> 00:33:33,735
Okay.

668
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:38,340
And so I can acknowledge the
fact that as a sign shop owner,

669
00:33:38,430 --> 00:33:42,960
I did not fully understand this
fifth sign shop commandment.

670
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,930
Um, I knew that I needed it.

671
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:49,740
I knew that we needed to, uh, have it.

672
00:33:49,950 --> 00:33:51,629
I didn't know how much I needed to spend.

673
00:33:51,629 --> 00:33:54,870
I thought it was, uh, fluid.

674
00:33:55,050 --> 00:33:56,850
I could just guess and take a stab at it.

675
00:33:58,034 --> 00:33:58,365
Boy.

676
00:33:58,365 --> 00:33:58,935
Oh boy.

677
00:33:59,085 --> 00:34:00,465
Years have gone by.

678
00:34:00,465 --> 00:34:01,335
I've learned from some.

679
00:34:01,335 --> 00:34:02,445
From some of the best.

680
00:34:03,075 --> 00:34:05,325
So, sign, shop, commandment
number five here.

681
00:34:06,225 --> 00:34:08,025
Your advertising budget.

682
00:34:08,955 --> 00:34:09,225
Okay.

683
00:34:09,225 --> 00:34:13,755
You're also known as your
marketing budget, okay?

684
00:34:14,324 --> 00:34:14,594
Yeah.

685
00:34:15,284 --> 00:34:23,415
Should not exceed 11% of net
sales on any given month.

686
00:34:24,255 --> 00:34:24,585
Okay.

687
00:34:25,154 --> 00:34:31,965
So advertising, sign shops,
advertising, like marketing, what?

688
00:34:34,424 --> 00:34:36,495
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

689
00:34:37,034 --> 00:34:42,255
I have, um, at this current time,
I have seven sign shop clients.

690
00:34:42,255 --> 00:34:43,935
I actually can't take on anymore.

691
00:34:44,054 --> 00:34:46,424
Uh, not yet, at least
not until the new year.

692
00:34:47,819 --> 00:34:51,060
I did a, I had a feeling we would
talk about this coming into this

693
00:34:51,060 --> 00:34:53,100
episode and I won't name them.

694
00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:54,659
I won't name who they are.

695
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:55,469
Okay.

696
00:34:55,469 --> 00:34:59,490
But I will give you the number
out of those seven, four of

697
00:34:59,490 --> 00:35:02,910
them do not advertise a dollar.

698
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:03,959
Yes.

699
00:35:04,740 --> 00:35:05,040
Okay.

700
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,580
Four of them do not
advertise their business.

701
00:35:09,435 --> 00:35:09,966
They know who they are.

702
00:35:09,966 --> 00:35:10,680
That's what percentage

703
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:11,100
to that

704
00:35:11,370 --> 00:35:12,330
they know who they are.

705
00:35:12,330 --> 00:35:12,419
It's

706
00:35:12,419 --> 00:35:13,560
57%.

707
00:35:14,985 --> 00:35:19,515
57% of my clients, which is,
you know, just in a vacuum.

708
00:35:19,515 --> 00:35:21,015
In a silo here, okay?

709
00:35:21,015 --> 00:35:25,005
There's thousands and thousands of
sign shop owners out there, but out

710
00:35:25,005 --> 00:35:32,085
of my seven who are very good, you
know, I have from 500,000 to 5 million

711
00:35:32,625 --> 00:35:34,545
is are what my sign shop owners do.

712
00:35:34,965 --> 00:35:35,655
My clients do.

713
00:35:35,655 --> 00:35:38,895
So they, I, I have some heavy hitters
and I have some, you know, guys that

714
00:35:38,895 --> 00:35:40,185
are just getting started out here.

715
00:35:40,815 --> 00:35:43,725
Z four out of the seven, right?

716
00:35:43,755 --> 00:35:44,385
I said four.

717
00:35:44,385 --> 00:35:45,225
Four out of the seven.

718
00:35:45,225 --> 00:35:45,615
Yes.

719
00:35:46,785 --> 00:35:50,085
Do not spend a dollar on advertising.

720
00:35:50,775 --> 00:35:52,095
And I will also say.

721
00:35:53,609 --> 00:35:58,589
That the one person that does 4
million is one of them and doesn't

722
00:35:58,589 --> 00:36:01,319
spend a single dollar on advertising.

723
00:36:01,319 --> 00:36:03,540
So I'm just gonna throw that
little carrot out there.

724
00:36:03,810 --> 00:36:08,910
Now I am in the, I hope
I'm in the majority here.

725
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:11,625
I hope I'm in the majority
because I believe that in order

726
00:36:11,625 --> 00:36:13,319
for your business to succeed.

727
00:36:13,710 --> 00:36:16,380
You need to advertise, okay?

728
00:36:16,380 --> 00:36:16,381
Yep.

729
00:36:16,650 --> 00:36:18,900
You need to forecast revenue.

730
00:36:19,799 --> 00:36:23,430
You need to be able to forecast the amount
of opportunities that you're going to

731
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:29,400
have in any given month throughout the
year by looking at history, by looking at

732
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,140
budgets, by looking at dollars and cents
and percentage points, you should be able

733
00:36:34,140 --> 00:36:38,370
to forecast how many opportunities your
business will get in any given month.

734
00:36:38,730 --> 00:36:41,610
But most sign shop owners,
Bryant, they, they don't care.

735
00:36:44,205 --> 00:36:49,035
And this is in my personal opinion, and I
think you and I have had a lot of offline

736
00:36:49,035 --> 00:36:55,455
conversations about this in my personal
opinion, this is where companies like

737
00:36:55,515 --> 00:37:00,465
Corbridge and Shop Box, and I know you're
going through your POS school right now

738
00:37:00,465 --> 00:37:01,905
and kind of going through all of this.

739
00:37:01,910 --> 00:37:02,210
Mm-hmm.

740
00:37:02,310 --> 00:37:02,530
But.

741
00:37:03,944 --> 00:37:06,975
This is where I feel like most
of these shops, uh, pieces of

742
00:37:06,975 --> 00:37:08,174
technology have dropped the ball.

743
00:37:08,504 --> 00:37:11,805
They have completely and utterly
forgotten about marketing.

744
00:37:12,375 --> 00:37:15,075
They just say when the job, when
the, when the lead comes in,

745
00:37:15,345 --> 00:37:16,694
well, where'd the lead come from?

746
00:37:17,325 --> 00:37:18,345
How did you get the lead?

747
00:37:18,615 --> 00:37:19,035
Yeah.

748
00:37:20,504 --> 00:37:22,395
When the lead comes in,
enter it into your workflow.

749
00:37:22,424 --> 00:37:22,875
Great.

750
00:37:23,145 --> 00:37:24,134
That should be awesome.

751
00:37:24,194 --> 00:37:25,455
Where are the leads?

752
00:37:25,725 --> 00:37:27,015
Where do they come from?

753
00:37:27,390 --> 00:37:29,040
Do they just magically appear?

754
00:37:29,549 --> 00:37:31,380
Do they just come into the pipeline?

755
00:37:31,384 --> 00:37:32,130
They, they just,

756
00:37:32,700 --> 00:37:34,049
you just manually put them in there.

757
00:37:34,315 --> 00:37:34,920
Oh, oh, I know.

758
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,140
They just fall out of the sky.

759
00:37:37,650 --> 00:37:38,700
No, I, I agree with you.

760
00:37:39,075 --> 00:37:39,555
Oh, I

761
00:37:39,555 --> 00:37:39,795
know.

762
00:37:39,855 --> 00:37:40,545
Oh, I know.

763
00:37:40,635 --> 00:37:43,695
They shop box guarantees you
X amount of leads when they,

764
00:37:43,755 --> 00:37:44,865
when you buy their software.

765
00:37:44,865 --> 00:37:45,105
Right?

766
00:37:45,105 --> 00:37:46,305
And that's, that's how it works.

767
00:37:46,305 --> 00:37:48,555
Like No, no, it doesn't work that way.

768
00:37:49,305 --> 00:37:54,285
So like, how do you operate a business
not knowing one who your customer is?

769
00:37:54,795 --> 00:37:57,975
I feel like that's a part of this
process that we need to also discuss.

770
00:37:58,695 --> 00:38:03,795
But how do you not spend
a dollar now I'm gonna.

771
00:38:04,365 --> 00:38:07,905
Say that those four shops
that aren't spending a dollar,

772
00:38:07,905 --> 00:38:09,015
I'm not singling them out.

773
00:38:09,015 --> 00:38:12,615
'cause I really feel like there
is a lot of you out there.

774
00:38:12,615 --> 00:38:13,215
No, that do not.

775
00:38:13,215 --> 00:38:13,545
There's

776
00:38:13,935 --> 00:38:15,405
a hundred percent, there's the majority.

777
00:38:15,405 --> 00:38:20,175
Like if you looked at the p and l, let's
say a hundred sign shops right now, like

778
00:38:20,175 --> 00:38:25,755
marketing and advertising would probably
be like one of the more minimal expenses

779
00:38:26,175 --> 00:38:26,415
correct.

780
00:38:26,415 --> 00:38:26,505
On

781
00:38:26,505 --> 00:38:26,745
there.

782
00:38:27,105 --> 00:38:30,045
And what do you think, what do
you think is the first thing that

783
00:38:30,045 --> 00:38:31,815
they cut when cash flow is tight?

784
00:38:31,815 --> 00:38:31,875
I.

785
00:38:33,150 --> 00:38:36,090
The marketing budget because
hey, we don't, we don't need it.

786
00:38:36,990 --> 00:38:38,940
Or the, the work is coming in.

787
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:39,360
Right?

788
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:40,080
But yep.

789
00:38:40,140 --> 00:38:45,120
The, the laws a pipeline dictate
like, Hey, hey, the, the stuff that

790
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:50,730
you're bringing in now took time to
develop and time to bake, and time

791
00:38:50,730 --> 00:38:56,010
for somebody to say, oh, hey, I, I've
seen this sign shop a thousand times.

792
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:57,540
Oh, I actually need this thing now.

793
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:58,290
Right.

794
00:38:59,625 --> 00:39:01,245
Cutting off the marketing budget.

795
00:39:01,725 --> 00:39:02,445
What are you doing?

796
00:39:02,505 --> 00:39:04,815
You're chopping your arm

797
00:39:04,815 --> 00:39:07,005
off, cutting the head
off the snake, right?

798
00:39:07,095 --> 00:39:07,995
Cutting the head off the snake.

799
00:39:08,295 --> 00:39:13,245
But you know, to your point, when that
huge job that you're working on gets

800
00:39:13,245 --> 00:39:17,565
done and you get paid, what's next?

801
00:39:17,865 --> 00:39:20,295
Where's the next, where's
the next one coming from?

802
00:39:20,295 --> 00:39:24,255
You know, it's when I explain
marketing, when I explain

803
00:39:24,255 --> 00:39:28,065
advertising, there is a, a lot of.

804
00:39:29,145 --> 00:39:31,065
I don't need, I don't need customers.

805
00:39:31,305 --> 00:39:32,355
I don't need customers.

806
00:39:32,415 --> 00:39:33,045
Um, we stay

807
00:39:33,045 --> 00:39:33,615
busy enough.

808
00:39:33,615 --> 00:39:34,725
We've got plenty of work.

809
00:39:34,965 --> 00:39:35,445
Yeah.

810
00:39:35,445 --> 00:39:36,915
My, my word of mouth.

811
00:39:37,155 --> 00:39:37,815
Word of mouth.

812
00:39:37,820 --> 00:39:37,830
Mm-hmm.

813
00:39:38,175 --> 00:39:38,685
Word of mouth.

814
00:39:38,685 --> 00:39:42,165
I've been here for 30 years
and everybody knows who I am.

815
00:39:42,165 --> 00:39:43,185
I don't need to advertise.

816
00:39:43,185 --> 00:39:44,265
That's typically the rhetoric.

817
00:39:44,265 --> 00:39:47,670
And if you're one of those shops that
are lucky enough to say that, great.

818
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:49,425
I'm, I'm not really talking to you.

819
00:39:50,055 --> 00:39:54,075
What I am talking about is just
having a marketing budget, because

820
00:39:54,075 --> 00:39:57,195
most of your businesses, if
not all of you guys out there.

821
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,450
Wanna grow your business, you wanna
scale your business, you want to,

822
00:40:00,870 --> 00:40:03,420
you might be stuck in the mud,
you might be doing 2 million and

823
00:40:03,420 --> 00:40:04,830
saying, how do I get to 5 million?

824
00:40:05,250 --> 00:40:06,420
Or how do I get to 4 million?

825
00:40:06,990 --> 00:40:08,400
Or how do I get to two and a half million?

826
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:13,080
Or you might be a $500,000 a year shop
and you have a marketing budget and

827
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,800
you might be saying, well, my marketing
was just an expense 'cause I only did

828
00:40:17,850 --> 00:40:20,460
$700,000 this year instead of 500,000.

829
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,970
You know where you are in.

830
00:40:24,544 --> 00:40:26,134
Sign shop lifespan.

831
00:40:26,285 --> 00:40:29,375
This conversation is
different for everyone.

832
00:40:29,645 --> 00:40:30,035
Okay?

833
00:40:30,605 --> 00:40:30,845
Sure.

834
00:40:31,745 --> 00:40:36,515
However, we'll go back to your, uh,
well, my original observation, if

835
00:40:36,515 --> 00:40:41,915
you make a hundred dollars Oh, what
I am simply saying is that $11, no

836
00:40:41,915 --> 00:40:44,765
more than $11 should not exceed.

837
00:40:44,765 --> 00:40:48,605
$11 need to go into paying
for that $100 that you got.

838
00:40:50,044 --> 00:40:50,345
Okay?

839
00:40:50,585 --> 00:40:53,705
So if you're spending
$5, $6, $1, whatever.

840
00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:58,140
It just can't be over
11, 11% of net sales.

841
00:40:58,290 --> 00:40:59,730
So let's put an extra zero to that.

842
00:40:59,730 --> 00:41:04,560
If you did a thousand dollars, 110
bucks to make that a thousand dollars

843
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,410
is what you can't spend more than, okay?

844
00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:12,150
And that could be really looked
at with a magnifying glass.

845
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:13,410
We can look at that in a week.

846
00:41:13,410 --> 00:41:14,400
We can look at that in a month.

847
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,470
We can look at that in a day
and say, what did we spend?

848
00:41:17,610 --> 00:41:19,110
And how many leads did we generate?

849
00:41:19,890 --> 00:41:24,330
Yeah, I I, I like the way that you've
structured these and like, should

850
00:41:24,330 --> 00:41:29,460
not exceed because like, you know,
I, the things that I've heard over

851
00:41:29,460 --> 00:41:33,810
the years and seen is usually like
a, hey, you should be spending a

852
00:41:33,810 --> 00:41:35,850
percentage, this percentage of sales.

853
00:41:35,850 --> 00:41:40,560
Uh, but I, I like this format
because, you know, I could always

854
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,540
spend X percentage of sales.

855
00:41:42,930 --> 00:41:46,319
To, to, to get a new lead, right?

856
00:41:46,529 --> 00:41:51,605
Whether that you say that's 4%, 5%,
whatever it is, obviously, like you,

857
00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:55,560
you always want to decrease this
number as a percentage of net sales.

858
00:41:55,890 --> 00:42:00,779
But there you do have to be spending
some money to, to have that percentage,

859
00:42:01,470 --> 00:42:03,900
which is an interesting segue, uh, into.

860
00:42:05,265 --> 00:42:08,415
Uh, I, we'll, we'll, we'll pause here
'cause we have another five to go.

861
00:42:08,415 --> 00:42:11,444
And we're gonna, we're gonna save
that for part two of this podcast.

862
00:42:11,444 --> 00:42:16,785
But before we go, before we go, I
have, uh, is it, I'm gonna, I know

863
00:42:16,785 --> 00:42:20,504
you like to go into the mailbag, but
I actually have a mailbag question.

864
00:42:20,504 --> 00:42:20,565
I.

865
00:42:20,775 --> 00:42:20,805
Okay.

866
00:42:21,075 --> 00:42:28,185
That, that, that came in just the other
day and I thought relative to stopping

867
00:42:28,185 --> 00:42:32,234
on, on sign shop commandment number five
around the marketing and advertising

868
00:42:32,234 --> 00:42:35,355
expense, that this was a really
great mailbag question to start with.

869
00:42:35,865 --> 00:42:36,285
Okay.

870
00:42:36,734 --> 00:42:38,745
So I have a, I have a question here.

871
00:42:39,075 --> 00:42:39,435
Okay.

872
00:42:39,464 --> 00:42:40,125
Hold on one second.

873
00:42:40,125 --> 00:42:40,845
Let pull it up.

874
00:42:40,904 --> 00:42:41,535
Lemme pull it up.

875
00:42:42,075 --> 00:42:42,315
All right.

876
00:42:44,115 --> 00:42:45,375
This is a good way to cap this one off.

877
00:42:45,944 --> 00:42:47,535
So I have a, I have a, uh.

878
00:42:48,314 --> 00:42:50,865
I have a question here
from Jason in Idaho.

879
00:42:51,225 --> 00:42:51,794
Idaho.

880
00:42:51,825 --> 00:42:53,955
I have a client and I have
a sign shop client in Idaho.

881
00:42:53,955 --> 00:42:56,895
So this is, this is actually
really good and it's not, this

882
00:42:56,895 --> 00:42:58,245
is not my client, by the way.

883
00:42:58,605 --> 00:43:04,395
My client is not named Jason, and
he says, what are some marketing

884
00:43:04,455 --> 00:43:08,564
vendors out there that are working
for the sign shop industry?

885
00:43:08,984 --> 00:43:10,964
And as a part two to
this question, he writes.

886
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:13,529
Will they work in Idaho.

887
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:18,490
Okay.

888
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:19,009
Okay.

889
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:22,779
Um, I don't know much.

890
00:43:22,779 --> 00:43:23,779
They work in Idaho.

891
00:43:24,255 --> 00:43:24,555
Yeah.

892
00:43:25,154 --> 00:43:28,455
So this is an interesting, I have a
couple of answers to this, is that,

893
00:43:29,085 --> 00:43:30,735
can we do the second part first?

894
00:43:30,735 --> 00:43:34,575
Is that like a, like will they
physically work in Idaho or like

895
00:43:34,575 --> 00:43:39,404
does their technology or their
platform or whatever work in Idaho.

896
00:43:40,095 --> 00:43:40,845
I'm sorry, Jason.

897
00:43:41,085 --> 00:43:41,475
Sorry.

898
00:43:42,134 --> 00:43:44,444
So Jason, I feel your pain.

899
00:43:44,504 --> 00:43:47,685
I am gonna answer part two
of your question first.

900
00:43:47,805 --> 00:43:50,475
Uh, I have a little bit
of a horse in this race.

901
00:43:50,924 --> 00:43:51,345
Okay.

902
00:43:52,275 --> 00:43:55,185
So I have a sign shop client in Idaho.

903
00:43:55,815 --> 00:43:56,265
Okay?

904
00:43:56,415 --> 00:44:01,185
Not in a major city of Idaho,
either, uh, like Boise or

905
00:44:01,185 --> 00:44:02,295
Meridian or anything like that.

906
00:44:02,295 --> 00:44:02,775
Like, no.

907
00:44:02,895 --> 00:44:07,004
Uh, so if you are in Boise or
Meridian, I think that this answer.

908
00:44:08,265 --> 00:44:09,045
Is different.

909
00:44:09,795 --> 00:44:13,785
Idaho is a very interesting
state in the us.

910
00:44:14,775 --> 00:44:17,385
Like this is how
interesting it actually is.

911
00:44:17,385 --> 00:44:21,525
I have come to learn that Amazon
only makes like once a week

912
00:44:21,525 --> 00:44:24,165
deliveries to certain parts of Idaho.

913
00:44:24,405 --> 00:44:24,675
Yeah.

914
00:44:24,735 --> 00:44:25,185
Oh, okay.

915
00:44:26,654 --> 00:44:31,935
That deliveries are actually
really hard to get in Idaho, that

916
00:44:31,964 --> 00:44:33,375
even companies like Grimm Co.

917
00:44:33,375 --> 00:44:35,055
They like, no, we're gonna ship it to you.

918
00:44:35,055 --> 00:44:37,125
We we're not, we're not making that drive.

919
00:44:37,125 --> 00:44:38,384
We don't make that drive at all.

920
00:44:39,015 --> 00:44:41,625
Uh, we don't send a
truck out, uh, this way.

921
00:44:42,645 --> 00:44:46,665
So I've actually, uh, heard from
my, my client in Idaho that like,

922
00:44:46,665 --> 00:44:48,194
yeah, it's, it's, it's challenging.

923
00:44:48,194 --> 00:44:51,674
We have to order like once
every, once for two weeks out.

924
00:44:52,125 --> 00:44:55,905
Just to have enough inventory and
geez materials and, you know, to

925
00:44:55,905 --> 00:44:59,235
get that, to get that here in time,
we actually have to order in bulk.

926
00:44:59,235 --> 00:45:03,765
So I feel your pain being in Idaho,
um, not necessarily encouraging you

927
00:45:03,765 --> 00:45:07,905
to move to another state, but, uh, I
do understand why you're asking the

928
00:45:07,905 --> 00:45:09,375
question of will it work in Idaho?

929
00:45:10,395 --> 00:45:13,185
All right, so part one to that
question is what are some.

930
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,100
Marketing vendors that I could use.

931
00:45:17,340 --> 00:45:20,460
And what has anybody
basically had success with?

932
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:22,650
Um, Bryant?

933
00:45:23,460 --> 00:45:26,550
Now I know you and I are
are keen in this area.

934
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:35,400
I actually have a couple of new sign
shop vendors in the marketing world that

935
00:45:35,580 --> 00:45:37,680
I, they they have no, they have not.

936
00:45:37,770 --> 00:45:40,290
Uh, I will mention them,
but they have not, um.

937
00:45:41,445 --> 00:45:43,515
Paid to be on this podcast.

938
00:45:43,515 --> 00:45:47,115
They have not, uh, sponsored this episode
or any way or not, it's just, I think

939
00:45:47,115 --> 00:45:51,825
we've had a lot of success with a couple
of these, uh, marketing companies here.

940
00:45:51,825 --> 00:45:52,785
So I'm gonna mention them.

941
00:45:52,785 --> 00:45:57,855
And, um, if you're watching this podcast
on like YouTube or, or anywhere, we'll

942
00:45:57,855 --> 00:46:02,565
probably put the links for these,
uh, these vendors here in the, in

943
00:46:02,565 --> 00:46:04,515
the, in the, uh, description below.

944
00:46:05,265 --> 00:46:07,485
So Jason.

945
00:46:08,490 --> 00:46:11,910
I feel your pain, but maybe some
of these sign, uh, sign shop

946
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:13,230
marketing vendors can help you.

947
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,460
We'll start with one that
I am so in love with.

948
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:18,480
Okay.

949
00:46:18,780 --> 00:46:23,250
The name of the company is
called Ride the Wave Info.

950
00:46:24,180 --> 00:46:24,480
Right.

951
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,570
And I The wave info, correct?

952
00:46:27,870 --> 00:46:28,350
Yes.

953
00:46:28,620 --> 00:46:33,120
Um, so some of you may not realize
this, but I'm a huge twi, uh,

954
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,640
X user Twitter, Twitter user.

955
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:43,920
Uh, I have a, I'm on it actively, and
I came across an individual, um, named

956
00:46:43,925 --> 00:46:50,370
Brian, and he is in his thirties and
started this company called Ride the Wave.

957
00:46:50,940 --> 00:46:52,530
And I was like, all right,
lemme check this out.

958
00:46:53,415 --> 00:46:54,015
And old.

959
00:46:54,015 --> 00:46:56,205
And, and, and to tell you
the truth, I didn't believe

960
00:46:56,205 --> 00:46:57,765
that it would work at first.

961
00:46:57,855 --> 00:47:02,115
Um, I've, I've had no, a
number of meetings with him.

962
00:47:02,115 --> 00:47:06,165
I've referred him to a lot, a couple of
my clients who've had some successes here.

963
00:47:06,975 --> 00:47:12,375
Ride the Wave has a, I think they've
cracked the code on communal networking.

964
00:47:13,095 --> 00:47:13,425
Okay.

965
00:47:13,725 --> 00:47:14,205
What does that mean?

966
00:47:14,205 --> 00:47:17,235
Uh, so we're all in
the sign shop industry.

967
00:47:17,235 --> 00:47:17,535
Right.

968
00:47:17,595 --> 00:47:21,585
And to be a part in the, to be a, uh,
a sign shop owner in the industry.

969
00:47:22,305 --> 00:47:25,365
You have to let me go back.

970
00:47:25,424 --> 00:47:26,835
You have to advertise your business.

971
00:47:26,835 --> 00:47:28,125
You have to network your business.

972
00:47:28,125 --> 00:47:31,154
There is no world where you're trying
to grow your business and scale

973
00:47:31,154 --> 00:47:35,714
your business, and you don't have it
figured out in terms of, you know,

974
00:47:35,714 --> 00:47:37,125
like, I'm gonna advertise here.

975
00:47:37,455 --> 00:47:37,935
Okay.

976
00:47:38,565 --> 00:47:41,625
But I've also mentioned that
sign shop owners are lazy.

977
00:47:42,555 --> 00:47:43,215
I used to be lazy.

978
00:47:43,695 --> 00:47:46,875
One of the biggest fears that I
had was that I had to like stand

979
00:47:46,875 --> 00:47:50,205
up and talk in front of people,
like at a networking event or a

980
00:47:50,265 --> 00:47:52,335
Chamber of Commerce or A BNI group.

981
00:47:53,535 --> 00:47:57,015
But these are the ways that most people
are aware of how they can be involved

982
00:47:57,015 --> 00:48:01,605
in their community sponsorships and new
and trade events and community events,

983
00:48:01,605 --> 00:48:03,645
and being like a mayor of the community.

984
00:48:04,275 --> 00:48:04,455
Yeah.

985
00:48:04,575 --> 00:48:05,505
One of the best ways to grow.

986
00:48:06,075 --> 00:48:06,405
Yeah.

987
00:48:06,735 --> 00:48:07,425
We've heard that time and time.

988
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:08,241
Time and time again.

989
00:48:09,465 --> 00:48:10,485
I, I don't disagree.

990
00:48:10,485 --> 00:48:12,555
I think it's one of the best
ways to grow your business.

991
00:48:12,555 --> 00:48:15,195
So there's a, another tip if you have,
if you're not doing that, you should

992
00:48:15,195 --> 00:48:16,365
definitely be doing these things.

993
00:48:16,995 --> 00:48:18,855
What if that's not you though, right?

994
00:48:19,485 --> 00:48:20,131
What if you're, well, what if that's

995
00:48:20,136 --> 00:48:20,475
not you?

996
00:48:21,195 --> 00:48:22,125
Like me, like me?

997
00:48:22,154 --> 00:48:24,795
Uh, and I, and I tell my clients this.

998
00:48:24,884 --> 00:48:27,525
So audience, I'm gonna tell
you this about me as well.

999
00:48:27,645 --> 00:48:30,825
Um, COVID has made me an introvert.

1000
00:48:31,695 --> 00:48:33,495
I used to be an extrovert.

1001
00:48:34,215 --> 00:48:35,775
One of the best, one of the biggest ones.

1002
00:48:35,775 --> 00:48:38,355
I would be the one the,
the, the, the party starter.

1003
00:48:38,355 --> 00:48:39,405
The crowd pleaser.

1004
00:48:39,405 --> 00:48:45,435
The guy that's gonna, this is what I do
and you know, I'm shouting it from the

1005
00:48:45,435 --> 00:48:49,005
rooftops, covid and staying home and I.

1006
00:48:51,345 --> 00:48:56,685
Away from everybody has completely changed
my personality, my, my mindset on this.

1007
00:48:56,685 --> 00:48:59,715
And I'm now as nervous as the
next guy to get up in front of

1008
00:48:59,835 --> 00:49:02,475
people and talk in front of a
room of five people, let alone 50.

1009
00:49:03,225 --> 00:49:03,525
Okay.

1010
00:49:04,035 --> 00:49:04,095
Yeah.

1011
00:49:04,095 --> 00:49:08,115
So when I go to my, when I, but I still
go, I still go to two BNI meetings a week.

1012
00:49:08,295 --> 00:49:10,455
One on Tuesday morning,
one on Thursday night.

1013
00:49:11,250 --> 00:49:11,430
Okay.

1014
00:49:11,430 --> 00:49:12,990
And I'm networking my businesses.

1015
00:49:13,260 --> 00:49:15,570
If you're, if you're not doing that,
I strongly advise you to do it.

1016
00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:20,040
But for those that are you, that have,
that are introverts like me, and you're

1017
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,920
fearful and you're, you're just, you
feel like you've gotta spend the money,

1018
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,250
but you can't commit because you're
always listening to your inner voice.

1019
00:49:26,250 --> 00:49:28,560
And your inner voice is saying
like, this is not working.

1020
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,540
Or, you know, I'm scared.

1021
00:49:30,540 --> 00:49:31,350
Let's just not do it.

1022
00:49:31,350 --> 00:49:37,140
It's easier to just say, no, this guy
ride, this guy Brian over at uh, ride the

1023
00:49:37,140 --> 00:49:40,440
Wave has been able to figure out a way to.

1024
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:46,440
I think he cracked the code on communal
networking, and he's using Facebook,

1025
00:49:47,010 --> 00:49:49,620
in particularly Facebook groups.

1026
00:49:50,460 --> 00:49:50,760
Okay.

1027
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,330
To network your business, but
in a different way, in a, in a

1028
00:49:54,330 --> 00:49:57,030
way that I was so proud to see.

1029
00:49:57,570 --> 00:49:57,900
Okay.

1030
00:49:57,900 --> 00:50:00,300
So let me give you like the high
level of this vendor, and I know

1031
00:50:00,300 --> 00:50:01,260
there's a second one coming.

1032
00:50:02,340 --> 00:50:06,960
The, this guy has been able to say,
give me access to your social account.

1033
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:07,620
I get it.

1034
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:09,180
You might not.

1035
00:50:09,180 --> 00:50:12,089
You might be like absolutely not
right, right from the get go.

1036
00:50:12,270 --> 00:50:12,810
But hear me out.

1037
00:50:13,799 --> 00:50:17,460
If your business is struggling and you're
not a big user on social media anyway

1038
00:50:17,460 --> 00:50:22,020
and you got nothing, the hu give this
guy access to your social media account.

1039
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:31,440
What he will do is he will join seven
groups a day that allow business postings.

1040
00:50:32,505 --> 00:50:35,925
Not every Facebook group will allow you
to advertise your business, but when you

1041
00:50:35,925 --> 00:50:39,945
think about the, the hundreds of thousands
of groups that are in your community,

1042
00:50:40,845 --> 00:50:43,995
car groups, school groups, craft groups.

1043
00:50:45,674 --> 00:50:46,815
Moms groups.

1044
00:50:47,444 --> 00:50:48,465
PTA groups.

1045
00:50:48,465 --> 00:50:49,665
I'm into a PTA group.

1046
00:50:49,665 --> 00:50:52,755
Now I can't, I can't listen to
these, these scha moms anymore.

1047
00:50:53,355 --> 00:50:53,865
Okay?

1048
00:50:53,955 --> 00:50:55,965
It's like when something bad
happens in the community,

1049
00:50:56,115 --> 00:50:57,615
everybody knows within seconds.

1050
00:50:58,305 --> 00:50:58,755
Okay?

1051
00:50:58,755 --> 00:51:03,194
You got hobby groups, you got
business groups, you got consultant

1052
00:51:03,255 --> 00:51:04,290
groups, you got everything.

1053
00:51:04,290 --> 00:51:06,795
You got sign shop groups out there, okay?

1054
00:51:07,575 --> 00:51:13,065
They're gonna join groups that are
in your community for you, and then.

1055
00:51:13,725 --> 00:51:18,884
They're going to post
about you in these groups.

1056
00:51:19,395 --> 00:51:24,645
Now, I said that very specifically,
they do not advertise your business.

1057
00:51:25,365 --> 00:51:28,875
They advertise you, which I
think is the best way to do it.

1058
00:51:29,805 --> 00:51:33,345
They humanize the element of.

1059
00:51:35,145 --> 00:51:35,535
Okay.

1060
00:51:36,375 --> 00:51:37,395
My name is Peter.

1061
00:51:37,725 --> 00:51:40,065
I've been living in the
community for 20 years.

1062
00:51:40,245 --> 00:51:41,655
I'm a graphic designer.

1063
00:51:41,985 --> 00:51:42,795
I'm married.

1064
00:51:42,855 --> 00:51:44,385
My wife is involved in the business.

1065
00:51:44,385 --> 00:51:46,185
My kids are involved in the business.

1066
00:51:46,725 --> 00:51:47,505
We've been doing this for.

1067
00:51:47,985 --> 00:51:51,945
10 years we we're trying to grow
our business and we really wanna get

1068
00:51:51,945 --> 00:51:54,615
involved in the community and we feel
like this is the best way to do it.

1069
00:51:54,855 --> 00:51:59,175
If you or anybody know of
any signage needs, you know,

1070
00:51:59,175 --> 00:52:00,495
please contact me directly.

1071
00:52:00,495 --> 00:52:02,895
Here's my cell, here's my email, whatever.

1072
00:52:03,675 --> 00:52:07,875
And then they take that and they
post pictures of like you and your

1073
00:52:07,875 --> 00:52:09,225
family working in the business.

1074
00:52:09,825 --> 00:52:11,985
You know, here's my son
designing the project.

1075
00:52:11,985 --> 00:52:12,405
Here's my.

1076
00:52:13,425 --> 00:52:16,695
Wife talking to a customer and
then there's like a, just a, a

1077
00:52:16,695 --> 00:52:19,785
family photo and it humanizes you.

1078
00:52:20,235 --> 00:52:23,325
It's, it's a way for people to say,
yeah, I wanna support that guy.

1079
00:52:23,325 --> 00:52:24,765
I wanna support that business.

1080
00:52:25,425 --> 00:52:29,085
And I was actually, I was actually
quite surprised with the results.

1081
00:52:29,085 --> 00:52:32,865
I was pleased to see it a little bit of a
different angle, a little bit different.

1082
00:52:32,865 --> 00:52:35,565
Not, you're not doing paper click
ads, we're not doing like social

1083
00:52:35,565 --> 00:52:36,765
media ads or anything like that.

1084
00:52:36,765 --> 00:52:37,515
This is just like.

1085
00:52:38,415 --> 00:52:39,674
Getting into the community.

1086
00:52:39,944 --> 00:52:41,564
People know you, people see you.

1087
00:52:41,564 --> 00:52:41,924
This farming.

1088
00:52:42,435 --> 00:52:42,615
Yeah.

1089
00:52:43,185 --> 00:52:43,395
Yeah.

1090
00:52:43,455 --> 00:52:44,865
It's a, I love that you said farming.

1091
00:52:45,044 --> 00:52:45,645
Love that.

1092
00:52:45,734 --> 00:52:47,024
Love the word farming.

1093
00:52:47,475 --> 00:52:49,725
Do some farming in your
advertising budget.

1094
00:52:49,725 --> 00:52:49,995
People.

1095
00:52:49,995 --> 00:52:50,685
That's a little tip.

1096
00:52:51,345 --> 00:52:51,615
Alright.

1097
00:52:51,615 --> 00:52:52,544
So ride the wave.

1098
00:52:52,544 --> 00:52:53,234
That's what they do.

1099
00:52:53,834 --> 00:52:54,075
Okay.

1100
00:52:54,134 --> 00:52:56,685
And I believe that they
will work in Idaho.

1101
00:52:57,075 --> 00:52:57,375
Okay.

1102
00:52:57,375 --> 00:52:57,794
I don't know.

1103
00:52:57,794 --> 00:52:58,754
I, I, you'd have to call them.

1104
00:52:58,754 --> 00:53:01,004
I, I, I wouldn't know, but I would think.

1105
00:53:01,515 --> 00:53:06,465
If you're in Boise or in a popular
city, or if you have a community that's

1106
00:53:06,465 --> 00:53:08,295
pretty large, it would work for you.

1107
00:53:09,195 --> 00:53:11,685
Uh, if you don't have a community that's
pretty large, I actually think that

1108
00:53:11,685 --> 00:53:15,225
that's an advantage because you become
the sign shop owner of the community

1109
00:53:15,225 --> 00:53:18,585
though, you know, like the baker,
the sign shop owner, the the postman.

1110
00:53:18,585 --> 00:53:21,375
So just because you're not in a major
city doesn't mean that you can't

1111
00:53:21,375 --> 00:53:23,925
develop that persona for your business.

1112
00:53:24,645 --> 00:53:27,075
Uh, we, we've seen that time and
time again on the podcast, like,

1113
00:53:27,585 --> 00:53:27,885
you know,

1114
00:53:27,975 --> 00:53:30,735
it doesn't have to be a
major city to be successful.

1115
00:53:32,550 --> 00:53:38,580
The, uh, the second vendor that I have
used and, and, and Brian, I'm not sure

1116
00:53:38,580 --> 00:53:42,480
if you've heard of them or not, or
used them or not, but social sponge.

1117
00:53:43,740 --> 00:53:45,750
Social sponge, okay.

1118
00:53:45,930 --> 00:53:46,320
Yeah.

1119
00:53:46,590 --> 00:53:47,640
These are all social sponge

1120
00:53:47,820 --> 00:53:48,600
new to me.

1121
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:48,960
Oh.

1122
00:53:49,020 --> 00:53:50,220
Uh, I have seen this one.

1123
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:51,840
You have seen this one?

1124
00:53:51,870 --> 00:53:52,230
Okay, good.

1125
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:52,440
Yeah.

1126
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:53,760
And not many people have heard of them.

1127
00:53:53,850 --> 00:53:57,420
Um, I personally was like, I.

1128
00:53:58,455 --> 00:54:01,845
Surprised by this because I, I'm
gonna tell you the quick story here,

1129
00:54:01,845 --> 00:54:03,495
Jason, and I hope you're listening.

1130
00:54:04,575 --> 00:54:08,295
I was in the shower one
morning and yes, that's true.

1131
00:54:08,295 --> 00:54:11,265
I was in the shower and I had my phone
in the shower and I'm scrolling through

1132
00:54:11,265 --> 00:54:14,085
my Instagram feed and some of you might
be like, what the hell are you doing

1133
00:54:14,085 --> 00:54:16,305
on your Instagram feed in the shower?

1134
00:54:16,875 --> 00:54:18,075
That's none of your business.

1135
00:54:18,375 --> 00:54:23,865
I was on my Instagram, so it's my,
I told you at the beginning of this,

1136
00:54:23,865 --> 00:54:27,855
I have four kids under four now,
so this is my only moment of peace.

1137
00:54:28,484 --> 00:54:32,325
Um, so I happen to have a waterproof
phone and I'm scrolling through

1138
00:54:32,325 --> 00:54:33,525
my Instagram feed and I get.

1139
00:54:34,065 --> 00:54:36,585
Tagged with this ad and says,
are you a sign shop owner?

1140
00:54:36,585 --> 00:54:37,815
And you make commercial signs?

1141
00:54:37,815 --> 00:54:40,365
And I'm like, wow,
that's very interesting.

1142
00:54:40,725 --> 00:54:41,984
I've never seen that.

1143
00:54:41,984 --> 00:54:47,835
I've never seen somebody talk to me so
directly, you know, in, in such a field.

1144
00:54:47,835 --> 00:54:52,515
Usually you see this in like other
areas like real estate or um, you know,

1145
00:54:52,754 --> 00:54:54,915
it, or AI apps and things like that.

1146
00:54:55,710 --> 00:54:59,760
I or sales, I'm seeing this guy
talk to me, just a random fellow.

1147
00:55:00,300 --> 00:55:01,140
I ended up meeting him.

1148
00:55:01,170 --> 00:55:04,710
Super nice guy, and he's like, I can grow.

1149
00:55:04,740 --> 00:55:08,070
I'm gonna guarantee I'm gonna
grow your commercial sign shop.

1150
00:55:08,070 --> 00:55:08,490
And I'm like.

1151
00:55:10,115 --> 00:55:10,405
Whoa.

1152
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:12,660
That is quite a message

1153
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:14,100
guaranteed.

1154
00:55:14,370 --> 00:55:14,640
Okay.

1155
00:55:14,820 --> 00:55:15,030
Yeah.

1156
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:16,830
And there's a guarantee behind it.

1157
00:55:16,830 --> 00:55:19,980
And you know, there's like, uh, if
we don't, I don't exactly know what

1158
00:55:19,980 --> 00:55:23,670
their motto is, but if we don't like
it, let's just say double your profits

1159
00:55:23,850 --> 00:55:26,070
or increase your profit margins.

1160
00:55:26,070 --> 00:55:30,000
Like we, it's, it's like we'll give you
your money back or something like that.

1161
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:30,090
Mm-hmm.

1162
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:38,310
Um, social sponge has married social
ads, particularly those of like.

1163
00:55:39,030 --> 00:55:43,770
Facebook reels, Instagram shorts
and TikTok reels and things like

1164
00:55:43,770 --> 00:55:48,990
that, and married it with an AI
component, a a lead qualifier.

1165
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,600
So you fill out, you, you click
on the ad, you fill out, answer a

1166
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,060
couple of questions, and then this
thing is like running you through.

1167
00:55:54,540 --> 00:55:55,440
What are you looking for?

1168
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:56,310
How much do you do?

1169
00:55:56,370 --> 00:55:58,080
You know, it's kind of
asking you all these.

1170
00:55:59,084 --> 00:56:03,134
Industry specific questions that
you and I know how to ask, but like

1171
00:56:03,825 --> 00:56:07,455
you train an AI bot to ask them,
that's pretty freaking miraculous.

1172
00:56:08,205 --> 00:56:08,384
Yeah.

1173
00:56:08,415 --> 00:56:12,165
Um, and then it qualifies
that person as a lead or not.

1174
00:56:12,165 --> 00:56:14,294
If it's a lead, great,
they send it to you.

1175
00:56:14,294 --> 00:56:17,234
If it's not, they kind of just
like send it off into your like

1176
00:56:17,234 --> 00:56:18,794
landing page for more information.

1177
00:56:19,250 --> 00:56:24,345
But it's an amazing angle because here
is something that you all need to know.

1178
00:56:25,140 --> 00:56:25,500
Okay.

1179
00:56:26,340 --> 00:56:29,220
And I know we're, we're a little
short on time here, but here's

1180
00:56:29,220 --> 00:56:30,180
something you all need to know.

1181
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,690
Your customers are on these platforms.

1182
00:56:34,620 --> 00:56:38,010
If you don't think that
they are, think again.

1183
00:56:38,670 --> 00:56:42,900
Your customers are shopping
the same way you are.

1184
00:56:42,930 --> 00:56:42,960
Okay?

1185
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:45,510
Lemme say that again.

1186
00:56:45,900 --> 00:56:49,740
If you are like me and in the shower,
scrolling through your Instagram feed,

1187
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:54,150
so is your customer and it's that simple.

1188
00:56:54,750 --> 00:56:59,009
So if you're not doing anything
in this space, shame on you.

1189
00:56:59,310 --> 00:57:01,799
So sign chop commandments.

1190
00:57:02,370 --> 00:57:03,569
Let's just do a quick recap.

1191
00:57:03,839 --> 00:57:03,930
Yep.

1192
00:57:03,930 --> 00:57:04,649
And then we'll call it.

1193
00:57:05,310 --> 00:57:05,490
Yep.

1194
00:57:06,330 --> 00:57:11,700
Gross profit margin should not
exceed, I'm sorry, should equal

1195
00:57:12,029 --> 00:57:14,970
or exceed 60% of net sales.

1196
00:57:15,870 --> 00:57:20,040
Gross profit margins should equal or
exceed 60% of net sales direct labor.

1197
00:57:20,910 --> 00:57:26,160
Your designers, your fabricators,
your your production guys should

1198
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,740
not exceed 20% of net sales

1199
00:57:31,290 --> 00:57:40,680
materials, parts, cost of goods, items
should not exceed 17% of net sales.

1200
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,200
Your overhead expenses, your operating
expenses, your business expenses.

1201
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,880
Should not exceed 48% of net sales.

1202
00:57:52,050 --> 00:57:57,120
And finally, number five of
our 10 sign Shop Commandments.

1203
00:57:59,115 --> 00:58:00,105
Start advertising.

1204
00:58:00,635 --> 00:58:05,850
Start advertising your
advertising expense.

1205
00:58:05,940 --> 00:58:08,520
Yes, should not exceed 11%.

1206
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:09,660
11% people.

1207
00:58:09,660 --> 00:58:11,310
That's not a big advertising budget.

1208
00:58:11,310 --> 00:58:12,450
That's not a big marketing budget.

1209
00:58:12,450 --> 00:58:14,730
Get on but should not be

1210
00:58:14,790 --> 00:58:15,385
zero either.

1211
00:58:15,870 --> 00:58:17,340
It should not be zero.

1212
00:58:18,630 --> 00:58:19,290
Love it, man.

1213
00:58:19,470 --> 00:58:19,860
Love it.

1214
00:58:20,490 --> 00:58:24,390
Alright, so we'll be back with part two.

1215
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:26,280
Make sure you stay tuned for that episode.

1216
00:58:26,910 --> 00:58:29,130
We are so back, baby.

1217
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:30,120
We're back.

1218
00:58:30,660 --> 00:58:31,080
We're back

1219
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:31,920
and better than ever.

1220
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,630
If you liked this episode, make
sure you hit subscribe to get all

1221
00:58:36,630 --> 00:58:41,430
the latest episodes and check out
our website, better sign shop.com.

1222
00:58:42,090 --> 00:58:45,390
Get free resources and helpful
tools on growing your shop.

1223
00:58:45,750 --> 00:58:46,740
Thanks for listening.