Pete Wright: I'm Pete Wright.
Andy Nelson: And I'm Andy Nelson.
Pete Wright: Welcome to the next reel. When the movie ends
Andy Nelson: Our conversation begins.
Pete Wright: Ford v Ferrari is over. James Bond does not drive a Ford, sir.
Trailer: Look out there. Out there is the perfect lap. You see it?
I think so.
Most people can't.
Trailer: Carol Shelby. Maybe. Leia Coke, Ford Motor. Suppose Henry Ford the second wanted to build the greatest race car the world's ever seen to win the twenty four hours of Le Mans. What's it take?
Well, it takes something money can't buy. Money can buy speed.
Trailer: What in about speed? You
Trailer: need a pure racer behind the wheel of your car. Ask Ken Miles.
Trailer: I don't trust him an inch.
We heard he's difficult.
Trailer: No. No. Ken's a puppy dog.
Trailer: No. Whatever it is, Shell, no. Trust me. You're gonna build a car to beat Ferrari with a Ford. Correct.
Pete Wright: What'd you think Ford versus Ferrari?
Andy Nelson: I mean, this is the second time I've seen it. I watched this in theaters when it came out. Really enjoyed it. And, watching it again, I found it held up. Still still is a really good movie.
Pete Wright: That's not enough for me. That's not enough enthusiasm, excitement for anything that you've just said. Just, oh, it was it was fine.
Andy Nelson: Let's talk about 2,001, Pete. Can we talk about your feelings on that film?
Pete Wright: I hate that movie. Oh, snooze. Yeah. Okay.
Andy Nelson: Uh-huh. So so anyway.
Pete Wright: Alright. I guess I'm the one who has to just all out love this movie. Is that what we're doing?
Andy Nelson: Yeah. I mean, I enjoy it. Don't get me wrong. I think the performances are fantastic. The races are actually, like, in the scope of a film that is about a really boring 24 race, they do a good job of kind of making it engaging.
And I think James Mangold knows how to how to provide information to the audience in ways where you don't feel like you're just getting an exposition dump. And it just makes for a smart way to tell this story so that I have an understanding of, like, the track of Le Mans. I have an understanding of, like, how it works and everything. And I thought they I thought they did a great job. The my biggest takeaway on this rewatch is that this should not be called Ford v Ferrari.
Because if anything, while the battle between Ford and Ferrari might be the impetus to actually get to this point where Ford was racing in these in these types of things, the Ferrari competition ends up being kind of like a letdown because the Ferrari cars basically break down and they're out of the race. And it's like, oh, sorry, Ferrari. You're out. It was it reminded me of, like, Grand Prix, like, when when the when they just flash the black flag and say, sorry. Our team's pulling out because somebody died.
Like, it's just like, it just it was not very exciting as far as Ford v Ferrari. What this should be called is Shelby and Miles v Ford because that's really what this story is about. It's about people who are passionate about competing and winning at something like a big competition like this. And then when they start working with a corporation, how the head butting actually comes to fruition because that that became the real crux of the story and really the driving point of how the film ends. Like, that's the actual plot of the story is how are these two going to navigate working with a corporation in a way where they can still win, but kind of also make the corporation feel good about themselves.
Pete Wright: I agree, sort of. I mean, I agree that, you're you're absolutely right. It is an anemic way that Ferrari falls out of the race, but it's also the real truth of the purity of the race. The fact that Ferrari fell out, the it's not that Ferrari like, there are just so many ways in Le Mans to lose the race, and that's one of the things that this movie does really well. One of the ways you lose the race is if you make a car that can't last the twenty four hours.
That's a loss, and Ferrari lost because of that. It's not because they didn't cross the finish line ahead of it. There's no it's it's not about finish line. Again, to to for those who don't remember or didn't listen to the last time we did a the Lamaze movie, Lemans.
Andy Nelson: Lamaze. Lamaze movies are totally different types of movies.
Pete Wright: Right. Don't there's no. They they sometimes take just as long, though, is that you you win by distance. That's important in this movie too. Right?
You win by the the amount of distance you cover in twenty four hours. And if you make a car that can't cover the most distance in twenty four hours, doesn't matter how fast the car is, It loses. It's a loser. And that's the because Ferrari was such an ego motivating entity for Ford, I think that's how this the fight is known. They were the motive.
They were the inciting incident for Ford to even get into racing in the first place. I think that's important. I think that's important. I understand the wah wah. Like and I feel it too because it honestly it makes me a little sad.
I love the for our the the three thirty p three, the the Ferraris are gorgeous, gorgeous cars. And I love them, and I wanted them to be at least stronger contenders in this first year. But, mean, I love the GT 40 more. I mean, the GT 40 is an incredible car, and the fact that it won four straight years after this is is an incredible feat. That's that's my case, that the movie is is focused on the motivating in incident, which is Ferrari.
Enzo Ferrari was a dick.
Andy Nelson: He is. And you're right. I mean, that that's the the motivating factor is why it's titled this because that's the reason we're having this film to begin with. And so I get that. It's just I think it's funny because in the end, that's really not the actual story that especially that James Mangold chose to tell.
Right? Like, it really it it really is this other battle against these soulless corporate entities, and how does that all come to pass over the course of the story. And I will say the element that for me best closed the the loop between Ford and Ferrari in the film is after we have the final end of the race and it's revealed that McLaren actually wins because his car happened to start farther back on the track. As you were saying, distance is a key factor here, and it ends up being Miles who had been in the lead until he slowed down to, you know, do this thing where all the three Ford cars came in in a line. There was this moment where Miles is standing there as watching as McLaren is getting celebrated, and he looks up and he sees Enzo Ferrari up there, and he just for Enzo Ferrari, he just kinda, like, gives him a tip of the hat, like acknowledging him as the actual greatest man on this track.
And Miles is great. That character has done so well in how he doesn't get angry at these sorts of things. He's so easily just, like, finds a way to move on. And he takes that acknowledgment from Ferrari as, I guess, his own success. And then after he's talking to, to Shelby, they just start immediately planning, like, the next set of, points and or for the and what they need to fix for the car.
And and so I loved that about the film. And to your point, like, that kind of ends up being being the final wrap up of the Ford v Ferrari is that little tip of the hat that we have. Acknowledging not even the corporate winners, the Ford company, but just the actual racer. And that's something I like about how it represents Ferrari is he kind of yes. He makes great cars, but he is celebrating the racer.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Because that's that's I mean, I think that the company, Ferrari, is built on racing, and Ford was not built on racing. It was built on commoditizing the automobile. And that's what modern Ford or this era of Ford had to overcome to get into racing. You know?
What does it mean to be a Ford man? Well, it means something different when you when you wanna enter this, you know, this this race. There there are a couple of interesting things about the actual event and what is portrayed in the movie. And I think it's important to call these things out because, this is one of those movies that is celebrated as doing a an able job of really presenting what happened and not overdramatizing the events for the sake of the film. There are a couple of things that that were choices that the film had to make that are not able to be confirmed.
One of them is, you already said it, is Miles at the end. He is portrayed as being a really sporting competitor, and he just gets to work on the next car. There are, you know, people, contemporaries who said that's how he behaved. There are also contemporaries who said he was devastated. I think that is
Andy Nelson: Oh, well, I think he was devastated too.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Yeah. Devastated too. But but the movie doesn't show you
Andy Nelson: Oh, it does. The the You don't see the devastation he's feeling?
Pete Wright: No. What I'm talking about is after this race, there were months of him being depressed and devastated and very sad. And this movie just sort of fast forwards through that and says, let's go get to work on the next car. And there are contemporaries who say, that did not happen. That he was he may have looked sporting, but he didn't put his arm around Shelby and go get to work.
He was broken about this. And and that the movie doesn't doesn't folk chooses not to focus on that. I don't have a real problem with it because there are conflicting reports. Movie makes a choice. That's one that's okay.
The one that is, I think, interesting about the race is that there are reports that Bruce McLaren actually sped up to nose ahead, not knowing anything about the eight meter distance that his car was parked from the start, knowing that he'd already have that lead, that he actually you know, when they came nose to nose, that McLaren sped up, and that is not portrayed in the movie as well. And in fact, it's hard to see in footage, like, what happened. But it doesn't paint him and Chris Amon in a great light. The the real story doesn't paint them in a very great light, Bruce McLaren. And that's the you know, for those who follow McLaren, that that may be par for the course.
The last one is the role, that Josh Lucas plays, Leo Beebe. The film, it strongly hints that it's a sabotage. Right? That he's sabotaging Ken Miles. And yet the movie frames the photo finish as more of, like, a tone deaf kind of, oh, bad call.
We made the bad call. And, it was all PR driven and not necessarily, malicious. There is a case to be made again with contemporary ports that Beebe was, like and that the movie builds this, that Beebe really hated Miles and never understood him, and that this was an active effort to deny Miles the win, that there was some sort of collusion to ensure that Miles didn't get the win. I don't know. I watched this movie, and the case that I think Josh Lucas is making is I'm going to delight deny him the win.
There's nothing that feels really surprising about that. But, yeah, the corporate chicanery at work.
Andy Nelson: Oh, yeah. It's very frustrating. Very frustrating stuff that, but it it becomes kind of a key part of that. Like I said, it's it's just such a key part of the film throughout.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Right. But you see, I mean, none of this stuff is like gotcha stuff. Right? There's nothing in in the reports that have been written about the real events that indicate that the movie is not an accurate retelling to, you know, particularly an emotional degree, but also to a practical degree of the development of this car and this race and the the people that went into it.
And I I really appreciate that.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. It's I mean, it's it's it paints that well, I think. I do have a question for you that just race specific. One, I was wondering, like, where are all the other, like, little cars and things like that when the race was going? There was a point finally later in the film when I see him pass, like, a little Fiat or something.
So I'm like, okay. So they're there. It's just not the focus.
Pete Wright: It's not make a big deal out of it. Right.
Andy Nelson: But the other thing that I don't remember in Le Mans, the McQueen film, is that in this film, the racers actually have to start, like, at their pits or whatever, and they have to run to their car at the start of the race to get in and get going. And I don't think that's how McQueen started. He's in the car waiting. Like, that's the whole thing is the heartbeats and everything. Did that change over the time?
Pete Wright: It has changed multiple times over the time, of Le Mans. And now I don't think that I think they're in the car when they start contemporary Le Mans. And so it it was originally thought of as a gentleman's way to start the race. And
Andy Nelson: Maybe they should just make it like they have to run, a five k first and and make it it's like a it's like a type of, triathlon. Like and then they at the end, when they finish the finish line, they hop out and then they have to go shooting. Like, that's really how to do it. To drive.
Pete Wright: And then they have to get out, put skis on, and then there's a bike. That's a septathlon
Andy Nelson: with a twenty four hour race right in the middle. The,
Pete Wright: just to confirm, the Le Mans start ran to their cars at the beginning of the race. It was a traditional part of the race's history. It was discontinued due to safety concerns. And in the early years, drivers would stand on the opposite side of the track and sprint to their cars, which were lined up on the pit wall when the flag dropped. The practice was discontinued in 1970
Andy Nelson: Oh, okay.
Pete Wright: Due to safety issues.
Andy Nelson: I wonder if it's because in this one, we see as people are taking off, like, people are crashing into each other
Pete Wright: Yeah.
Andy Nelson: Right at the start of the race. It's like, okay. Maybe that's not a a great way to do all of this.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Turns out it's dangerous. Yeah. You'd like to I mean, you you wanna actually get to a race before you have people crashing out of a race, and and many tracks don't know that well.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. In I mean, this film, a a key part of it is that our our the the driver that we're primarily following, Ken Miles, I know he's just one of the team, but he is also integral in the design of the car. Is that a common thing with with these racers, like even through today? Because I've never thought of racers as actual mechanics building the cars. I thought they just, you know, me drive fast sorts of people.
Pete Wright: I think they would have an issue with that characterization, but maybe not a lot of issue. No. It is it's it's not that common. And and, you know, Miles was brought in because he is first and foremost a mechanical engineer and want who wanted to race and happened to be good at racing, but everybody seemed to like him more as an engineer than than as a racer. So this was kind of an interesting transition for him to be able to get to race.
He he was also such a jerk, like, in public that that, because he suffered no fools, and everybody thought that was, you know, that was he was never to be put in front of a camera. So that made it him a unique sort of unicorn in the business to to be able to be a part of the design of the car and to drive it and to test it and to do all of those things.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Because, I mean, we certainly had well, maybe not quite to the same extents extent, but, like, Niki Lauda definitely had a a very deep understanding of the mechanical nature of the cars that he was racing. I just don't remember him actually tinkering or, like, climbing under the body of it to work on it. And maybe I just am already forgetting that film.
Pete Wright: Well, that would be fair too. I I think, you know, the the drivers have, no doubt, an intimate understanding of how these cars work. Right? Because that's that's how they have to communicate to the people who build the cars. Sure.
Right? Like and and how they know when things aren't working right. It's just that that incredible sense. So, yeah, I mean, I they I just don't know of any right now.
Andy Nelson: Sure.
Pete Wright: Sure. Team drivers who are part of the engineering team building the cars. I don't know those.
Andy Nelson: So You know, Christian Bale, I think thought he was fantastic in the film. Like, brilliant portrayal of this character, conflicting emotions, the the anger, just everything about him was great. How does, Matt Damon work for you as Shelby as far as our other primary character of the story that we're following?
Pete Wright: You know, it's really interesting. He I so Christian Bale looks like Ken Miles.
Andy Nelson: Right? Except for the teeth. He didn't have to wear prosthetic teeth. He didn't have to
Pete Wright: wear prosthetic teeth. In our last film. That's true. But but he does have the the Ken Miles look, I think. And he's you know, his body, his face, like, everything shaped very Ken Miles.
Matt Damon does not look anywhere like Carroll Shelby. And yet I think he embodies the spirit of Carroll Shelby really, really well. If you look at Carroll Shelby interviewed, I think Matt Damon pulls it off. I think he pulls off the accent. I think he pulls off the the salesmanship.
Right? I mean, that's Shelby was incredible with cars, and, also, he knew how to sell them. He knew how to sell these these cars. And and so I I think that he he really embodies the the spirit of Carroll Shelby in a in a way that that surprised me. I didn't see it coming with Matt Damon.
He seemed too smooth. Right? Too soft. And yet yet he he plays for me, for sure.
Andy Nelson: I loved him in the film. I thought he was great as this character who hit a point where he knew he just couldn't race anymore because his body couldn't handle it. And so here he is doing whatever else he can to just stay in the world of cars. Selling cars, you know, putting together teams of cars, like all of that stuff was, it played. It worked really well for me.
I liked all of that stuff. You know, I I feel like I had heard of the Shelby Corporation, but like, I don't think I could have given you any context of it. But it's interesting to just kind of get a little bit of a story of him at this point. You know?
Pete Wright: The one to look at is Lee Iacocca, played by John Bernthal. Do you have any Iacocca anything?
Andy Nelson: He's a a name I recognize quite well.
Pete Wright: He's a a titan of automotives. Lee Iacocca is such an interesting guy. If you go way, way back I had to go way back to images from his Theta Chi fraternity yearbook to get a picture that even remotely looked like John Bernthal.
Andy Nelson: You're talking specifically about how he like, the look comparison, not the character comparison. Okay.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Because the guy the guy that I know as Lee Iacocca is, like, nineties era Iacocca. And I feel like, I I was really hit sideways at Bernthal playing Ayacoka. And I also think he did a hell of a job, Bernthal, playing this role because he also was the kind of sales guy, and he had to be the corporate shill that stood in between the guys who didn't trust the work that they were doing but bought into it in name only and the guys who were doing the work and trying and and were told that they were be able to take it seriously. And up to that first LeMond race, he had to walk a tightrope until until Ford tells Shelby, go to war, which was an extraordinary moment in this film for me.
I thought it was fantastic. So Iacocca ran Ford. He then ran Chrysler, and he is just the Detroit postwar power factory guy. You know, his his books were all over corporate desks as leadership mantras and
Andy Nelson: I think that's how I associate with him because I'm pretty sure my dad had a book of his when I was a kid. Like, that's the only reason I think I recognize the name, you know, other than later in life knowing he was in charge of some car stuff is basically how I put it.
Pete Wright: The era that Ayacoka was is just after that era, I guess. My I worked for a consulting company where Ayacoka's words were part of the teachings of, in our in our courses. And so we had to, like, you know, get get through talking straight and going for broke and all of these books that he's that that he's behind. And we had to kind of memorize Ayacoka's big stories because they were motivating for others. And it wasn't a great era.
Andy Nelson: It wasn't it wasn't a Well,
Pete Wright: he was
Andy Nelson: like a TED Talk star before TED Talk was a thing. Yeah.
Pete Wright: Right.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Right. Very much that's
Pete Wright: an But an interesting guy and an incredible career. A really incredible career.
Andy Nelson: I mean, we already talked a little bit about Josh Lucas as the real kind of the CAD character. But the one that I find most interesting is is Henry Ford the second, you know, and I think that that's such a an important role in the scope of the story, but, like and Tracy Letts, I think, is such a great performer. And the way that he brings that character to life for me was fantastic because it felt like this corporate overlord type of character. Right? You really feel that with him.
But it's that moment when Matt Damon, like, takes him out in the car, and then he just breaks into tears weeping. And you're kind of laughing because it's really funny that there's this man who's, like, had just like, is he scared? Did he wet his pants? What's going on? But then he's like, if my father could have been here.
And it's like that idea of like, all of this stuff that my father has done, but he never got to experience something like this. Like, that was so powerful and such a great moment. And then like that whole go to war thing, and and and then the other moment, of course, that's great is after they lose that first race and and that whole conversation about why I shouldn't fire you. And just the way that Shelby spins that entire thing is like, yeah. So let me get back to work.
Mhmm. I don't know. It's just it was an exceptional way that that character was written and structured and then played to be this person who is, like, the head of the corporation wanting these things, not understanding what it took to get there. And then still in this place where he had to navigate his own bureaucratic system that he's he's built. And people like Bibi who are using that against even him to kind of manipulate things.
Pete Wright: I think it's really interesting that that whole angle that first of all, about Henry Ford the second. Like, Henry Ford the second was not just a corporate nepo baby. Right? Like, Henry Ford the second is known to have worked hard to modernize Ford. Like, he's he was part of the legacy of revitalizing the business of Ford Motor Company when it really, really needed it.
And and we get a little bit of that in in the movie before it takes off on on the development of the of the actual LeMancar. But I I think you're absolutely right. I think this is the the movie has a cynical perspective toward the capitalism of auto manufacturing in the beginning. Right? It's it portrays Ford early in the movie, and it portrays Beebe early in the movie as the corporate boobs we have to put up with.
But by the end of the movie, you realize that both of the both sides had to come together to make this car, and Ford had to change. Ford Henry Ford the second had to change, and we get that moment in an emotional rug pull for the ages. I think you're I mean, calling out that racing where he says dad would have loved to be to have been here to see what we've been able to do, what you've done, is a is a pinnacle moment, a seminal moment in this movie because it demonstrates this massive culture of automation and manufacturing can change, and it changes from the very top. And I think that was I think that's a that's a really important thing because the whole movie is not cynical. The whole movie is not cynical, but it does say that, at at the beginning, you could make the case that the movie doesn't look very kindly on big manufacturing.
Andy Nelson: Well, yeah, you could make that case. I think what it ends up making the case of is that, like any of these big corporations, they are trying to do the best, the, like, the best things that they can. Right? That's the goal. He's working hard to do this.
But because it's such a big organism by this particular point, it has so many working parts that those don't always work in harmony to actually lead to that. And I think he doesn't he might realize that. It might be one of those things that he acknowledges is is there. It's just something that he's just gonna have to live with. But I don't know.
It was just it it ends up being some people like like BB who have their own personal gripe with somebody or something, and then use their own power within the system to manipulate in ways that it's still theoretically working in the corporation's interests, but it also is very much feeding into his own specific interests. And I think that's that's really what we're getting with that.
Pete Wright: Yeah. I I will say Bibi was his his friends apparently saw the movie and felt like he was straight up vilified in the movie because of his the cynical perspective that it it puts on, you know, the role of PR and his role in the in the movie. And people were not a fan of of that. That's the one where that role was. It was really hyper criticized for being the villain.
And
Andy Nelson: Yeah. I was wondering, like, how much of that stuff actually happened? Locking him in the office. Like, all of that sort of stuff that Shelby has to play all of these games. Like, how much of that really was part of the story?
And it sounds like probably a lot of it was fictionalized just because it does make for a good villain though that we end up get to getting to personify.
Pete Wright: Yeah. And part of it is that there is evidence that they clashed. Miles and BB clashed. But it was Bebe's idea on the record. It was Bebe's idea for the cars to slow, for for Miles to slow, thus meaning Miles lost the race.
But if you're a friend of Bebe, that's a smart PR move to get the photo. If you're not a friend of Bibi, then Bibi's a jerk. Like, I totally get it. Perspective is everything on this, but but in general, the record is as portrayed.
Andy Nelson: Well, but here's the thing, and this is why I find Miles to be such a great character, is that he didn't have to slow down, at least as it's scripted. I mean, who knows what Shelby actually said to him in the pit? But the fact that he's like, the car is yours. Do what you want. And the way that he he finally has that moment of recognition, like, is so far ahead of everybody.
Like, if he just continued that, like, he could have probably broke broken another track record for all we know. But he slows down because he hits that point where he recognizes, like, people have called him out numbers of times about being difficult, not being a team player, all of these sorts of things. And he has this moment. And I don't know how much of that actually played in real life. Like, is he so far ahead and then legitimately slows down to actually join the teams or let them catch up so that they can have that moment.
But the way that the film is portrayed, it's his decision to do it. It has nothing to do with Bibi by that point. And I think that's what makes him such an interesting character. And even if his wife recognizes it and everything, like, he he is somebody with character. And BB, it's not that he doesn't have character.
It's just he's a corporate machine focused on the image of the corporation.
Pete Wright: Corporate interests.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. And so yeah.
Pete Wright: And you're I mean, you said it. Miles chose to slow down. Miles is, if nothing else, complicit in his own loss. Right? This was incidental.
Nobody thought about this eight meters. Nobody could ever have imagined the eight meters. And it's it's hard to blame b b for this as the villain.
Andy Nelson: Although, I would think the racers would know things like that. Like, you know, like, that's something that I would assume that they I
Pete Wright: don't know, man. After twenty four hours, I just have to imagine you're not tracking that.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. But it's not like they're doing it twenty four hours straight. They have little moments of sleep and stuff.
Pete Wright: They have breaks.
Andy Nelson: You're right.
Pete Wright: They can sleep.
Andy Nelson: Got plenty of time
Pete Wright: to stew over
Andy Nelson: these sorts of things.
Pete Wright: A lot of stewing. Yeah. Okay.
Andy Nelson: Well, we've talked about the characters and everything. What about the actual ways the race was shot? That's something that's come up quite a bit because in the beginning of this series with Grand Prix, they were coming up with such innovative ways to put cameras on cars and do a lot of unique work in the context of filming actual races. I was, you know, now we're in the day of drones. I was like, did we have drone footage in here?
I I didn't investigate into the behind the scenes as far as all this. Were there points where we had CG cars? Like, I don't know. What do you know about how they shot the races with this film?
Pete Wright: Combination of lots of things.
Andy Nelson: That's a great answer. Combination of lots of things.
Pete Wright: You know what? There was a lot of putting Miles' car on they they built a lot of those hybrid rigs where they put the car frame on top of another car and have a professional driver with with, you know, bail in the seat pretending to drive with all the other cars driving around him driven by stunt drivers. So he wasn't actually driving. They they also did built the rigs where the car was the the race car was on the front of the driving rig, and a stunt driver was in a roll cage behind it doing all the driving kind of up above. A lot of those sort of hybrid monster frames to to drive, but, the rest was just, like, straight up follow cars and cars with great big cranes on them to get the low track stuff and cameras mounted to cars.
Lots of cameras mounted to the cars. So we you know, there was I mean, there's a lot of replacement, of course, because the tracks were you know, they had to do a lot of digital work to make the tracks, period tracks. But, largely, it's the the racing stuff is is practical in terms of, you know, we're not creating CG cars.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Because sometimes some of the camera moves, I wasn't exactly sure, you know, because there are some some pretty slick moves. And that made me wonder, like, were they actually getting the drone out there too? Because I feel like there was at least one that was a a higher angle shot that then came swooping down. But I guess it could have been a crane that they could have been using.
Pete Wright: Yeah. It they they definitely had like, they they they had all the tools. The drone there is they do use the drone for sure for tracking stuff. There is a wonderful video that they talk about how they do all of the rigs, right, all of the the building rigs. And they do talk about the drone work that they that they built into into this.
But it's not like a like, what was the, was it ambulance? That drone it's there isn't that much drone stuff.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Well, yeah, that was kind of
Pete Wright: They don't have any principal photography is not done on like, character photography is not done with a drone. Yeah. Well, well, I I know. Mind blowing. It was good, and I think this is one of the things that is so that we've been talking about this entire time is you take these races, which can be boring unless something really incredible is actively happening.
And just filming the race is not enough. And I think this is this is an example of a movie that does the race stuff great, but also knows what the story is. And the story is the people who are making the cars. And that's the that's the thing that made this, I think, a really special special movie. Not like this is it makes it a superior film to the vibes oriented Le Monde with Steve McQueen, you know, which was just not enough story.
Andy Nelson: Or documentary or really. Yeah. It was a tough one. Well, you know, the other thing that we get here is we've also talked about lives off the track. We don't really get any behind the scenes of that with Shelby, but we certainly do with Miles with his wife and son.
And I thought that was actually also treated well. It wasn't like, oh, this director doesn't actually care about these off track stories. It's just here because they needed to get some women in the film, and we end up with some pretty boring scenes. Here, it's actually an interesting family dynamic. I love the the relationship between husband and wife.
I love the relationship between father and son. I questioned often how much he how often he brought his son to these tracks as he was doing his work knowing that something bad could happen. And that actually it's interesting because and I I mentioned earlier how I liked how James Mangold would give us moments to provide exposition in ways that didn't necessarily feel just straight up expository. We have his son at one of his tests, and the car goes into or it crashes. This is the one I think where his brakes are burning up or whatever.
And and he spins out and crashes and the car catches fire, and he gets out and he's totally fine. But that sets up this this fear for his son Peter about the possibilities that this sort of thing could happen to dad. And it becomes kind of a driving force of that character relationship as we are getting those moments, and it builds to the tragic climax, obviously, of the film. But it gives us that moment between Peter and I can't remember. Is it which one of his guys is it that is his, like, right hand repair guy, the the mechanic guy, talking about the flameproof suits and all of this sort of stuff and the whole thing about if they can get out.
Like, they he got out, and that's that's what it takes. And that was a great bit of exposition kind of explaining that world of, like, flameproof suits, the way they design all of this sort of stuff. Likewise, we have a moment later in the film where Miles is or Ken is sitting with his son Peter, and Peter has, like, he's drawn the Le Mans Track so that he can know all of the stuff, and he asks his dad to walk him through it. His dad describes, like, the perfect lap, but it also helps us go, okay. We're getting a sense of these different parts of the track.
And while I don't necessarily later in the film when they're racing, I'm not able to say, oh, they're on the s's now or whatever. I I can't really quite, like, do that. But it's a great way to kind of explain that for the audience, like, this is what you're doing. And I I liked that quite a bit because for me, I feel I thought that Damon was talking about me. I thought they both were talking about me at various points because he's just like, you're not just, you know, you can't just sit in the car and just turn left all day.
Like, I was just like, that that's kind of what I think.
Pete Wright: Isn't that what racing is?
Andy Nelson: That's what it feels like to me. And then when when Miles was selling his car, he's like, I think you're more of a Plymouth man. I'm like, I think he's also talking about me. Like, I'm just not one of these people who's meant to
Pete Wright: have one of these cars. Oh my god. Andy. Oh, Andy. I I I think this started because we were talking about the family.
Andy Nelson: It went yes. Sorry. I just went off of that other tangent.
Pete Wright: No. It's good. I I and and I I think I agree with you. I think, you know, one of the things that we've we've talked about in we've talked about in the other movies is just how poorly they're they're written for the women characters. I think Molly is a great character.
I like Molly a lot. I I think Molly works really well. And I don't know how much more this isn't Molly's movie. This is a movie about, you know, Ken and Carol and Ford. And, you know, I don't know what else what else we would expect of of Molly, but the character was rewarding and written well and get some good comic moments.
I love it. Love it. Love it when they're fighting on across the street and she brings out a chair to watch. Like, I think those beats are really memorable and and good for her. So
Andy Nelson: Well, he also had that final moment with her, which I think is also just an important beat to have because Shelby just can't get himself to go up to her porch and talk to her, but he talks to to Peter who happens to be on the same side of the street as him. And then she notices him, and they just give each other a wave. And that kind of is what shall be needed, just that acknowledgment. And she's it's almost like an acknowledgement on her part too. Like, you know, I know it wasn't your fault.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Right. I think this is actually an interesting thing. Originally, it's almost titled Go Like Hell, which which is important. Do you know do you know why it's important?
Andy Nelson: Just that it's based on a book.
Pete Wright: Right. But regard to the the sign, the when he says 7,000 RPMs.
Andy Nelson: Oh, yeah. Right. Right.
Pete Wright: Right. Do you know why that why that matters?
Andy Nelson: Because he's going faster. And I don't know. Because Ford was dictating that, you know, they don't go over 6,000 RPM for some stupid reason.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Well, the stupid reason was, like, we've invested a lot in these cars, and we want the engines to last as long as we can as they can, and we think you're gonna we we don't trust the engine at higher RPMs. And so we don't trust the drivers to be able to know when they're overtaxing the cars. And those decisions were being made not by the mechanical people, but by people like BB. And that was a real controversy.
Right? That was a legitimate controversy that, and a rift between the drivers and the and the suits. Right? And we get that that bit where they do the Daytona race, and and that's just that, like, we're gonna test out the GT 40. We're gonna see how it how it goes, and we're gonna we need you to to tamp it down a little bit because we don't we don't wanna ruin the engine.
But Miles is saying, I know this car better than anyone. Right? I know this car better than anyone. You gotta let me have it. Now that that specific event was largely fictionalized for the movie.
But the rift between Miles and drivers in general and their, stables are is is legendary. And that moment, that hero moment in the movie is such a fantastic emotional beat, and it actually absolutely tells a story of where these cars are tuned to be most successful. And and he talks a little bit about it in the beginning when the guy comes in with his with his car and says, you know, it it's not driving right. He says, well, it's a sports car. It's gotta be driven like a sports car.
You're driving it like a Chevelle or whatever. And, you know, you're you're holding it wrong, essentially. And and so that's the that's the real story. And we talked about Miles, you know, and why he was such a good mechanical engineer and a driver because of just how attuned he was to the car, to the sounds it was making and the vibrations and all of that. All of that matters.
I I don't think I like the title, go like hell better than Ford v Ferrari. I don't know. Don't like that. Don't like that. You don't like it?
Andy Nelson: No. Yeah. When they were making that, it was actually Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt that were I don't know how attached they were, but that was the plan at that point. And then at some point, Joseph Kaczynski was brought on to make it. And then Michael Mann.
The whole then the budget kept going up. And and it hit a point where they just weren't gonna do it because it was too expensive. And then finally, Mangled came on board to work on it, and, things fell into place. But, yeah. I mean, can you see Cruise and Pit playing in this?
Pete Wright: I can I can see it? I would prefer if we're gonna put Pit in it, I'd prefer Clooney. It seems like a thing they would do.
Andy Nelson: Well, if it's Cruz and Pitt, which one has the better English accent to to pull off to pull off Miles? I don't know. Have we ever heard either of them do I mean, Tom Cruise did Irish in Far and Away.
Pete Wright: Well, Snatch. Brad Pitt did an absolutely unintelligible
Andy Nelson: Was that Welsh? I don't know. But, yeah, you're right.
Pete Wright: Yeah. He did. Welsh Cockney something. I mean, they can they can
Andy Nelson: They're actors. I guess they get paid enough to figure that sort of stuff Yeah.
Pete Wright: They'll figure it out.
Andy Nelson: Alright. Fine.
Pete Wright: I I think it's better not that we didn't. I I think it's fine where we where we landed. But I do I do think it's interesting that Michael Mann was attached to this, went on to make Ferrari, and Kaczynski was attached to this, and we're about to see f one. Like, these guys need to make their car movies.
Andy Nelson: Well, and Mann, so much so that he was still attached as executive producer on this one. So I I don't know if that was just a throwaway title that he got to keep after having been attached to this. Who knows if he actually had any involvement or not? But yeah. Yeah.
Pete Wright: Yeah. So Cool. Alright. Love it. Love it.
Love it. Love it.
Andy Nelson: It's a it's a good one. So we'll be right back. But first, our credits.
Pete Wright: The next reel is a production of True Story FM, engineering by Andy Nelson, music by the magnetic buzz, Arty Son, Flint, Oriole Novella, and Eli Kaplan. Andy usually finds all the stats for the awards and numbers at v-numbers.com, box office mojo Com, I m d b Com, and wikipedia.org. Find the show at truestory.fm, and if your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show. You ever sit in your garage flipping through old ticket stubs, maybe staring at a dusty movie poster tacked to the wall and think about the ones that got away? Yeah.
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Be the one who logs like a legend because no one remembers the guy who stayed in the garage. Awards, Andy. How to do an awards season? Did it do real good?
Andy Nelson: This film, was a big, big nominee. It had 26 wins with 88 other nominations. It was nominated over at the Oscars for four. Best picture, but lost to Parasite. Best sound, but lost to nineteen seventeen.
And then best film editing and sound editing, it won those. At the Toros World stunt awards, it won best work with a vehicle. And an interesting one, the AARP movies for grown ups awards, it was nominated for best buddy picture along with, these are the nominees, a beautiful day in the neighborhood, Ford v Ferrari, just mercy, the lighthouse, and the two popes.
Pete Wright: The lighthouse?
Andy Nelson: I know. I know. Best buddy film. Right?
Pete Wright: Oh my god.
Andy Nelson: AARP movies for growing pores crack me up. They are the funniest things. Anyway, what was weird though is when they had their award ceremony, they did not identify a winner. It's like they forgot that they had created this category. Wow.
Right.
Pete Wright: So So there yeah.
Andy Nelson: Wow. So it just is like
Pete Wright: Wait a minute. You're telling me, like, even today, right now
Andy Nelson: Yeah. There's no winner. Winner. There's no winner. They never announced a winner.
Pete Wright: They never went back and fixed it. Nope. It's like they all it's like the award center needs to be in a memory care unit.
Andy Nelson: Right. It's very funny. Wow. Last but not least, over at the Golden Globes, Christian Bale was nominated for best performance by an actor in a motion picture, and he won.
Pete Wright: Alright. Well, how to do at the box office? Our our wee little cult film.
Andy Nelson: Well, Mangold's entry into car racing subgenre cost a whopping 97,600,000.0. I say whopping. F one is costing, like, three times that. Yeah. Or a hundred and 21,000,000 in today's dollars.
The movie premiered at Telluride, then opened 11/15/2019 opposite Charlie's Angels reboot, The Good Liar, and the rerelease of Princess Mononoke. This opened in the number one spot and stayed in the top 10 for five weeks, doing quite well for itself. It earned a hundred 17,600,000.0 domestically and 108,700,000.0 internationally for a total gross of 280,600,000.0 in today's dollars. That lands the film with an adjusted profit per finished minute of just over a million, doing quite well for itself. Not
Pete Wright: bad. Do you have you thought to yourself, you know, I've just watched this movie and I've been driving a minivan for too long. I think I would like to get a Ford GT 40.
Andy Nelson: I never in my life have I said I want to buy a domestic car.
Pete Wright: Ah. Okay. Alright. I didn't expect us to to go there. But what I what I what I will tell you, this was all by way of just telling you, look.
They they make the Ford GT 40 right now, and it they didn't for a long time. But they brought it back some years ago, and they now make it. And you can buy it you can buy it in two capacities. You can buy it, track only, or you can buy it road legal. The road legal version is actually it it is a supercar.
I mean, it's a road legal supercar. 660 horsepower. It's an extraordinary car. It'll cost you $500,000. The track only car is is truly inspired by the '67 GT 40 Mark two or or Mark four, and they only made 67 units.
67. And you could buy one if one is available for $1,700,000. You will no longer be able to buy those from Fords. I think they're all in collector's hands, but it's got 800 horsepower in it. It is a very zippy little car, and they're out there.
If you wanted to buy one from the sixties, I think you're looking at over 10,000,000 right now. If you could find one from a on the collector's market, you're looking at about $10,000,000 for one of these cars. But they're still there. They're out there. Jeez.
Andy Nelson: What people pay for cars.
Pete Wright: Would you even know what to do with a car like that? I would not.
Andy Nelson: That's what I'm saying. I'm the guy they tell to go get a Plymouth.
Pete Wright: But would you want to know what to do with a car like that? Would you ever be interested? Like, let's just say, Andy, you know, it's your birthday. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna get us both track day tickets. We're gonna go to one of those, like, BMW race driving courses for, like, four hours.
And you and I are gonna learn all the things to do behind like, they'll put us in an m three and just teach us how to drive fast. Are you would you do that? Are you do you care?
Andy Nelson: I did something similar to that before, and it's fun. I mean, I do enjoy that sort of thing, but I wasn't behind the wheel. It was something well, I was I'm trying to remember. I I'm pretty sure it was something where I was just strapped in and they were driving, but it was it was still fun. I enjoyed.
I felt like I felt like Henry Ford the second.
Pete Wright: Okay. Step one, we're gonna watch Talladega Nights together. Step two, we're gonna go I'm gonna take you to a driving school, and we're gonna drive real fast. And you're not gonna be strapped in. You're gonna be well, you'll be strapped in, but also driving.
Andy Nelson: I've done go karting. That's pretty fun. But also, you just Not
Pete Wright: the same, Andy.
Andy Nelson: Just going around the track over and over and over
Pete Wright: like we're having different conversations right now.
Andy Nelson: Alright, everybody. We will be right back for our ratings. But first, here's the trailer for next week's movie, closing out our car racing series and our fourteenth season, Simon Curtis' The Art of Racing in the Rain. That being said, we might have something up our sleeves, so keep an eye on your feed for a bonus episode before the season runs out.
Trailer: No race was ever won in the first corner, but many have been lost there. I should know. I was born to be a race car driver, but there's only one problem. That's not me. That's me.
He picked me out of a pile of pups, a tangled mass of paws and tails.
Andy Nelson: This one. Definitely this one.
Trailer: The pick of the litter.
Trailer: She always said that. Well, just a minute now. We were thinking of keeping them. He always said that too. Hey.
Call it fate, call it luck. All I knew was I was meant to be his dog.
Andy Nelson: You like that,
Trailer: Like it. I loved it. Sound, smells, I felt like I truly belonged. In racing, your car goes where your eyes go.
Trailer: I'm not really much of a dog person.
Trailer: He's more person than dog. Denny was clearly taken with her grooming. She probably bathed every day for all I knew.
Trailer: Does he always stare at people like this? If he likes them. The
Trailer: best drivers don't dwell on the future or the past. The best drivers focus only on present.
Andy Nelson: And so
Trailer: No one knows what curves life will throw at you. But if a driver has the courage to create his own conditions, then the rain is simply rain. But for now, all I want is one more lap. Faster, Denny. Faster.
Trailer: Sweet boy. Come here.
Trailer: It must be amazing to have a body that can carry an entire creature inside. I just hoped it would look like me.
Andy Nelson: In the vast landscape of cinema, there are those who watch films and those who live them, those who see only what's on the screen, and those who look deeper, who search for the magic, the soul of the story. We are the latter. We are the soulful cinephiles. In a world where the film industry is increasingly dominated by soulless bureaucrats, by suits more interested in the bottom line than the art of storytelling, we are the ones who keep the flame of cinema burning bright. We are the ones who seek out the magic, whether it's hidden in the frames of a big budget blockbuster or flickering to life in a small scale indie.
And we've found a home, a sanctuary, a place where our passion is celebrated, our curiosity encouraged, our love for film nurtured. That place is the next real. Here, we don't just watch movies. We unpack them, dissect them, revel in them. We dive deep into the stories that move us, the characters that inspire us, the themes that challenge us.
We explore the full spectrum of cinema from the obscure to the iconic, from the arthouse to the multiplex. But the next reel isn't just a podcast. It's a community, a gathering of kindred spirits a fellow travelers on the endless journey of cinematic discovery. It's a place where we can come together to share our insights, our questions, our unbridled enthusiasm for this medium that means so much to us. And now you have a chance to be part of it, to join the ranks of the soulful cinephiles, to help keep the magic of movies alive in a world that too often forgets its power.
By becoming a member of the next reel, you're not just getting access to bonus content or ad free episodes, though those are certainly perks. You're making a statement. You're saying that cinema matters, that storytelling matters, that the soul of a film is worth fighting for. You're saying that you're one of us, a soulful cinephile in a soulless world, ready to seek out the magic wherever it may hide. So join us.
Head to truestory.fm/join and become a part of this community, this movement. Help us keep the soul of cinema burning bright because in a world of soulless bureaucrats, the soulful cinephiles are the ones who will keep the magic alive. And with the next reel, that magic is just a click away.
Pete Wright: Letterbox, Dandy. Letterbox.com/thenextreel. That's where you can find our HQ page and, start diving into all of our reviews and stuff. What are you gonna do for this movie?
Andy Nelson: I've enjoyed this movie, both times I've seen it. I think they did a great job. James Mangold is just a filmmaker who does a solid job exploring his passions. It's not my favorite film of his. That would probably still be Logan, I think.
But this man just knows how to tell great stories, and this, I think, is one of his greats. Four out of five is where I land with this one.
Pete Wright: Okay. Okay. It's five stars. Five stars in a heart. That's fine.
So I get the roundup this week, and that's I'm okay with that.
Andy Nelson: That's right. So you're going five stars in a heart. I'm four stars in a heart. That rounds up to four and a half stars and a heart over on our account at letterbox.com. Which you can find us there at the next reel.
You can find me there at Soda Creek Film. You can find Pete there at Pete Wright. So what did you think about Ford v Ferrari? We would love to hear your thoughts. Hop into the ShowTalk channel over in our Discord community where we will be talking about the movie this week.
Pete Wright: When the movie ends
Andy Nelson: Our conversation begins.
Pete Wright: Letterbox giveth, Andrew. As
Andy Nelson: letterboxed always doeth.
Pete Wright: Mine's gonna require a little bit of discussion because I don't know what this is. So can I go first?
Andy Nelson: Oh, sure.
Pete Wright: It's from Maria. It's four stars and a heart. You gotta respect both my LeMann, Christian Bale, and Matt Damon, for going full method in this by watching that my strange addictions video called sex with my car way too many times. Vroom vroom indeed. Do you know what any of that is?
Andy Nelson: Well, at the beginning, the she's talking about her men, le mans. Yeah. I get Okay. Well, you have to say it la mans because they're Yeah. That's the part of the joke.
As for sex with my car, my strange addiction, I am looking at the it's a it's a Wow. Video. I'm watching it right now. Daniel is in a committed relationship with his car chase. Okay.
And so, basically, it's done as a
Pete Wright: Oh god. He's licking his car right now. He's licking it and sucking on it.
Andy Nelson: I think it's done.
Pete Wright: Sucking his car.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Oh. Yeah. So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna keep watching it. So, anyway, that's what that's what that's all about.
Pete Wright: Okay. I am really really glad that we
Andy Nelson: So that's what she's talking about. She's joking that they watched this too many times because they love their cars so much.
Pete Wright: Yeah. Okay. Good. Wow.
Andy Nelson: Glad we solved that puzzle.
Pete Wright: I have never seen that. I can't believe it.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. You
Pete Wright: should you should TLC. My Strange Addiction.
Andy Nelson: In your VR headset. 16,000,000
Pete Wright: views from eight years ago. How have I not how has this not come to my Internet yet?
Andy Nelson: Make it 8,000,001, Pete. Come on. You can do it.
Pete Wright: Oh, it's 8,000,000. It's it's 16,000,000.
Andy Nelson: 16 million. 16 million and 1.
Pete Wright: 40 8 thousand 16 comments. How would one even begin reading those comments?
Andy Nelson: We should change the next reel. And instead of watching movies, we should do, like, a different, YouTube video that we find each week.
Pete Wright: That's Internet circa 1999. I think Dignation took care of that. Okay. Alright. What is yours?
Andy Nelson: Mine is a three star by Sinefila, who has this to say. Before I watch this, I thought Matt Damon played Ford and Christian Bale played Ferrari. The rumors are true. I have two brain cells. I will say, the movie poster, you got four you got two guys, Ford v Ferrari.
It does make it feel like it's setting you up as these are the two guys. If you have if you know nothing else about it, I can see where they would think that.
Pete Wright: It turns out the protagonist is Henry Ford the second. All along. And the antagonist is Enzo Ferrari.
Andy Nelson: Yeah. Alright.
Pete Wright: Okay. Thanks, Letterboxd.