Interior Integration for Catholics

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Dr. Peter walks through a deep psychological profile of Judas' Iscariot, really understanding him in three dimensions, with a discussion of Judas' parts and how he defended against shame through narcissism. There is also an exercise for you to focus more on God's love for you rather than your sins, failings and weaknesses.

Show Notes

  1. Intro: Welcome to the podcast Coronavirus Crisis: Carpe Diem!, where by God’s grace, you and I rise up and embrace the possibilities and opportunities for spiritual and psychological growth right now, in these days, all grounded in a Catholic worldview.   We are going beyond mere resilience, to rising up to the challenges in our lives and becoming even healthier in the natural and the spiritual realms.  I’m clinical psychologist Peter Malinoski and I am here with you, to be your host and guide.  This podcast is part of Souls and Hearts, our online outreach at, which is all about shoring up our natural foundation for the Catholic spiritual life, all about overcoming psychological obstacles to being loved and to loving God and neighbor -- it short, this podcast is all about relationships -- it's all about becoming much more relational in our lives and in our faith. 
    1. This is episode 46, released on December 14, 2020
    2. and it is titled: Shame and Tragedy: Judas Iscariot and You
    3. it is the tenth episode in our series on shame.  
    4. Thank you for being here with me. 
    5. Last episode we discussed how shame can lead to idolatry.  
      1. Now we are going to look at an example of how shame did lead to idolatry 
      2. the rejection of the true God for a false god
      3. the story of Judas, whose life ended in tragedy, the tragedy of abandoning and betraying Jesus Christ, true God and true man
    6. Really excited about this episode
      1. Really going to look inside of Judas' mind, heart, body and soul today
      1. Really focus on understanding what happened in his life, why did he act the way he did. 
        1. Why did he do it?  
        2. I don't accept the typical explanations for Judas' behavior because they seem too simplistic, they don't resonate at all with me.  

      1. In our fallen world, in our fallen human condition, all of us have elements of what Judas struggled with.  
        1. I believe that there is the potential in you to repeat what Judas did.  Fallen world, fallen natures.  
        2. There but for the grace of God go I.  Origin unknown, often attributed to John Bradford, Evangelical preacher of the 16th century.  
        3. We can learn from Judas' tragic end.  

    8. We are continuing to really immerse ourselves in the spiritual dimensions of shame.
      1. How shame on the natural level can impact us in spiritual ways 
        1. Grace builds on nature -- disorder in the natural realm undermines the spiritual life.  

      1. I like to teach through familiar stories, weaving stories together.  
        1. Especially through Scripture, really getting into the Word of God.
        2. Deeper understand of the people in the Bible stories, to see them in three dimension, bringing them to life
        3. Scripture is a gift from God to us -- a precious gift
          1. a way that God reveals himself to us
          1. And a way that God reveals you to you.  If you look carefully, you can see aspects of yourself, parts of yourself in the people of Scripture 

          1. You can connect with their experience, and I am here to help you with that. 

        5. Stories help to illustrate the concepts we are learning and connect with them.  Stories give us tangible examples so that we can really grip on to what we are trying to understand.  

  2. Judas was an important, powerful, evocative and mysterious figure to me growing up from when I was 5
    1. I remember being about 5 years old and insisting to my mother that Good Friday should really be called "Bad Friday" because of how Jesus died.  
      1. Deeply impressed by the story of the passion and death of Jesus.  
      2. 5 and 6 year old think in black and white -- clear, simple categories
      3. And I thought Judas was very, very naughty to betray Jesus and tell Jewish priests how to catch him so they could nail him to the cross.  That was very naughty.  
      4. And Judas was a thief, too.  He stole things.  That was important to me.  
        1. Let me tell you a story about my history as a thief.  
        2. I was not a very good thief.  But I was a thief at one time.  
        3. Stealing was not tolerated in my family. 
        4. When I was five we were on our road trip back from the Christmas visit with grandma and grandpa, and we stopped at a gas station.  Inside the store, there was a Christmas tree decorated with striped candy sticks. Not just red and white, this one had all the colors of the rainbow. 
          1. Oooh, pretty.  Oooh, tasty.  Shiny, too.  Pretty, tasty, shiny.  I took one.  
          2. I'm not sure I was even really aware I was stealing.  
        5. Sucking on it in the car, making it sharp and pointy.  Where did you get that?  No pretense.  
        6. Mom and Dad -- that's not right,  Dad makes a U-turn on the two lane highway, and  drove me back about 10 miles to the gas station and I had to go in and tell the manager what I had done.  I surrendered the half-eaten pointed little striped candy stick.  I was mortified.  Manager was very gracious, made it no big deal.  I experienced real shame at the time.  And I vowed to reform and not steal ever again.    
        7. From my parents' reaction, I learned that stealing was very, very bad.  It was a rule not to steal, even a commandment -- Thou shalt not steal, and that included taking candy canes off of Christmas trees inside gas stations.  
        8. A part of me really learned that to be good, you have to know the rules and follow the rules 
          1. and Judas was not following the rules about not killing Jesus and not stealing money.  
          2. Could Judas be any worse?  Judas was very, very naughty.  

    1. Fast forward two years.  When I was about 7, a man named Tim Rice came into my life.  He told me a riveting story, portraying Judas in a very different way than just being very, very naughty.  He told me about Judas' feelings and thoughts and worries and how distressed Judas had been and how Judas had done some bad things, but Judas was very human.  I listened to the story that Tim Rice told me -- I wanted to hear it over and over again.  Judas was so different than I had thought.  He was more than just a stealer who betrayed Jesus.
      1. Who was Tim Rice? -- wrote the lyrics for the Rock Opera Jesus Christ Superstar.  
        1. Andrew Lloyd Weber wrote the lyrics.  
        2. Blast from the past-- anybody going back to the 1970s with me now?

      1. Mom and Dad had the vinyl -- the two volume set and though I didn't have TV growing up, we did have a nice stereo and I was allowed to play records the turntable.  Looking back on that it seemed a little ridiculous to let a seven year old play records on this really, really nice audio equipment, but there it was
      1. And I, at seven years old, eight years, nine years  old -- all the way until my sophomore years of college, I really gripped on to this musical
        1. JC Superstar was so emotionally evocative for me.  Emotions just welled up in me in so many ways that never really happened at Mass or in religion class.  

        1. Tim Rice really was telling me the most compelling story of Jesus and Judas and the Apostles and the sufferings and deaths of Judas and Jesus.  

      1. This musical had a huge impact on my formation
        1. The album cover came with a booklet that had all the lyrics for the entire musical
        1. I had them memorized.  

        1. My family always went to the Good Friday Liturgy.  
          1. I could be distracted in the liturgy 
          2. because I knew that the tradition was always that after the liturgy we would come home and listen to all of JC superstar.  Direct contrast with the liturgy 

  3. Now I want to introduce you to a part of me -- my Good Boy part and tell you a little about his story.  
    1. Good Boy took on his protective role in that moment in the car with my family when I was 5 -- when my parents reacted to the my great candy cane thievery.  
      1. Good Boy was the part of me that was going to make sure that I followed the rules 
      2. so I would never get in trouble and I would never be shamed.  
    2. Now this part of me is very concerned about doctrinal orthodoxy.  
      1. This part of me focuses on making sure that I walk the straight and narrow path, that I follow the rules, and that I don't lead anyone else astray.  
      2. Good Boy protects me -- has led me to a lot of study and research around right and wrong.
    3. Good Boy is kind of like a little self-appointed angel that sits on my shoulder, telling me what is right and wrong.  
      1. If he is disconnected from my core self, he tries to take over the role of being my conscience
        1. Not very good at it on his own because his vision is very limited, when he is not integrated with the rest of my system 

        1. For example, when I was destabilized for a while in college, he led me into some intense scrupulosity -- it was brief, only two weeks, but it was really intense. 

        1. Also, when he is disconnected from the rest of me, Good Boy is not very relational.  He deals more in the realm of ideas, abstractions, philosophy, theology which is good and important, but he doesn't do relationships very well when he takes over and he can be really judgmental not only of me but other people as well.  Really critical. 
          1. Focuses on whether everyone is following the rules as he understands them
          2. Not very patient or kind and can real trouble understanding human weakness. 

        1. Good Boy, if not connected with my core self, if he's operating on his own he wants to figure everything out on his own.
          1. He idealizes philosophical and theological knowledge and self-sufficiency
          1. He reaches for God's omniscience -- this is how this part of me, Good Boy, falls into idolatry. 
            1. He assumes God is far away, like the vineyard owner who left his vineyard in the care of tenants and was gone a long time. Or the man who left talents to his workers and went away on a long journey.  
            2. He believes that God helps those who help themselves and he's got to figure out how to please this distant God who is traveling far away but who is going to come back, so we had better have followed all the rules and been productive.   

          1. So Good Boy, again if he is on his own, if he's not integrated or connected with my core self, he wants to be really big.  And the way that he want to be big is to be very knowledgeable and to command me into the straight and narrow path.  He doesn't  resonate with the idea of a deep, personal, intimate relationship with Jesus or with Mary when he gets disconnected.   He wants to be big by knowing things, especially about morality.  Other parts of me want to be big in other ways -- being powerful, being socially adept, knowing how to read people, etc.  Good boy want to be big by knowing things.  

      2. Now some years back, when I got into parts work and Internal Family Systems therapy, Good Boy was very open to integrating with the rest of my system, once he saw how good that would be, and once he could accept that believing that we had parts was not some modernist, New Age, heretical nonsense that was going to lead me to hell.
      3. Good Boy is now usually mostly integrated with the rest of my parts and with my core self, he is so helpful.    Integration -- Good Boy is a part of me, generally much more integrated, not so autonomous now.   He needs to be integrated to share in all the aspects of life that he doesn't have on his own.
        1. Still very focused on doctrinal issues -- we need to have the truth, I really value this
        1. But there are other issues that are really important -- relational issues, emotional issues, all kinds of other issues and experiences that are important and need to be factored in and other parts in my integrated self help with that.
        1. Good Boy plays an invaluable role in my system informing parts of my moral compass, he encourages me to read and study and be cautious about what I say, he helps balance out more exuberant, emotional parts of me.  

        1. And I really like him and treasure him as a part of me.  

    4. Message from Good Boy:  Good Boy wants me to announce at this point that there are lots of historical, theological, spiritual and doctrinal problems in the messaging of JC Superstar.  There are lots of ways that that rock opera does not conform to a Catholic understanding of our Lord and the meaning of his life and death and it is no substitute for reading the Gospel and studying it.  
      1. "It happens that we don't see Christ as God but simply the right man at the right time at the right place."  "we are basically trying to tell the story of Christ as a man. I think he increases in stature by looking at him as a man."  Time Magazine 1970
      2. Rice stated in a 1982 interview, "Technically I'm Church of England, which is really nothing. But I don't follow it. I wouldn't say I was a Christian. I have nothing against it."
      3. Thus ends this Public Service Announcement from Good Boy.  
  4.   Profiling Judas
    1. Importance
      1. Judas is an absolutely critical figure for us as Christians, to understand
      1. We not only have the potential to betray Jesus -- we do betray Jesus when we sin.

We can learn so much about ourselves by really understanding Judas all of his humanity
  1. Temptation can be for some parts of us (like Good Boy, originally) to just condemn him in a simplistic story.  Here's how the bare-bones simplistic story goes:
    1. Judas was a thief who stole from the common purse
    1. He liked money.  He sold Jesus for 30 pieces of silver 

    1. That was a lot of money -- greed was Judas' motive.  

    1. He betrayed Jesus with a kiss, the scoundrel, and the Jewish authorities captured Jesus, gave him a totally bogus trial
    1. Then the authorities had Jesus beaten, tortured, mocked and crucified to death.
    1. Then Judas freaked out with remorse and he killed himself, which is what he deserved for being such a traitor and betraying Jesus. 

    1. Dante put Judas in the 9th circle of hell.  What more do you need to know.  

  5. We can do so much better than that simplistic story.  
  6. Sources
    1. Using Scripture, Tradition, and the perennial teaching of the Church
    1. Using commentaries, especially those by Catholic saints
    1. Using what the mystics have to tell us -- private revelation
    1. Using the best of psychological theory and understanding to make inferences
  11. Cautions -- We are speculating
    1. Good Boy used to not really want me to speculate, 25 years avoided speculating
      1. Good Boy:  I could get something wrong -- real fear of misunderstanding, and I did not want to be lead astray by emotions
        1. I felt like I was led astray by my emotions, and that I had made bad vocational decisions in which others had manipulated my emotions and blinded me
        1. I distrusted my emotional side. 
          1. Good Boy motivated me to repudiate JC Superstar in college after I found out that there were lots of problems with it
          2. But also because I was very concerned about being emotionally moved in the spiritual life.  I got rid of JC Superstar because it moved my heart and that was no longer trustworthy because I thought my more emotional parts had deceived me in a number of ways.  I felt I had made big mistakes, made bad decisions, including a really bad vocational decision because of the influence of more emotional parts of me, and Good Boy was never going to let that happen again.  Emotions were untrustworthy, emotions were unsafe.  
          3. Wouldn't watch Mel Gibson's movie The Passion because of how emotionally evocative it was.  And it was historically inaccurate in number of ways, and probably gratuitous with the violence.  

    1. We will probably get some of the particulars wrong
    1. But the important thing is to really be trying to understand the human experience -- practicing. 
      1. Like we did with King David, and Crown Prince Amnon and Prince Absalom and Princess Tamar in episodes 40, 43 and 44.  
      2. There are elements of Judas' experience, as I understand it, that are common to us all, because we live in a fallen world, because of our fallen condition.  
      3. Easy for me, especially my Good Boy part if he is operating on his how to judge Judas and dismiss him to go with the simplistic story
        1. Understandable -- given how horrific Judas' crimes were.
        1. For many years, my Good boy part did not want to understand Judas, for fear that understanding him may lead me astray somehow.  So no more JC Superstar.  Judas is wholly bad, there is nothing redeemable about him, he is just a villain.   

    1. Good boy wants me to invite any of you who detect something theologically wrong or misleading to let me know so that we can seriously consider it and offer any corrections in case there was anything inconsistent with our Catholic Faith.  

  13. JC Superstar starts out with Judas discussing his concerns in a solo piece.  The main character in JC superstar really is Judas -- it really is an epic, tragic story about Judas.  
    1. Judas is the protagonist -- he speaks the first words in the rock opera, a long distraught monologue.  
    2. Judas is also very sympathetically portrayed.  I could emotionally engage with this characterization of Judas, he was approachable, he was understandable.  He was human, he was in three dimensions.   
  14. But back when  I was a kid, neither Good Boy nor any of my other parts knew that the musical wasn't necessarily telling the story accurately.  I was in Catholic school, but it was the 70s and 80s.  Religion class and my catechetical formation never really told me the story of Jesus -- we learned facts and we glued felt shapes on burlap banners that hung in the church to symbolize something or other.  The more interesting and hip and groovy the teachers all tried to make the Faith, the more boring it seemed to me.  They were trying way too hard to be relevant.  I never heard the real story told well, with all the details and all the emotion and all the raw human experience and the relational conflicts and the drama.  
  15. Discussion of Parts
    1. I'm going to look at Judas' internal experience, his internal dynamics.  I am going to look at his heart, mind, soul and body.  I am going to look at his core self and his parts in a much more nuanced way.  Parts have personalities.  

    1. Often we are dominated by one part -- a manager part that takes us over, like when parts in the Pixar movie Inside Out take over the control panel 

    1. Will be doing a whole course on Internal Family Systems and parts for Community Members -- I am putting that course together now, and there are two main sections -- one section is going to be on the basics of IFS, how IFS understands the human person, with parts and self.  The other part will be on how we can make sure this understanding conforms to the Catholic Faith, what adjustments need to be made.  Huge benefit of being in the Resilient Catholics Community.  We will also be talking more about IFS in the upcoming podcast episodes.  

    1. Importance of self-governance
      1. Judas failed at self-governance -- he let himself be carried away by his parts.  St. Thomas Aquinas would say that Judas let himself be carried away by his passions and did not govern them appropriately, leading to great sins.  

  16. History of Judas -- upbringing
    1. Judas is a human being, fearfully and wonderfully made in the image and likeness of God.  Not a "bad seed."  

    1. Meaning of the name Judas 
      1. Greek form of the name Judah  -- Jeff Benner.  

The name Judas is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Judah, in Hebrew יהודה (ye-hu-dah, Strong's #3063). Most Hebrew dictionaries will define this name as "praise," but as this English word is an abstract word it falls short of its true Hebraic meaning. The parent root of this word is יד (yad, Strong's #3027) meaning "hand". The child root ידה (Y.D.H, Strong's #3034) is derived from yad and means "to throw or stretch out the hand" and is the base root in the name Yehudah. If you were standing on the rim of the Grand Canyon for the first time you might throw your hands out and say "Wow, will you look at that". This is the Hebraic understanding of "praise" and the name Yehudah. 
  1. Iscariot -- from Kerioth  
    1. Or Iscariot may mean from the tribe of Issachar, one of the 12 tribes.  St. Jerome 
    2. St. John Chysostom:  Matthew described him as a betrayer, not as if he were viewed as enemy or adversary but as one writing a history. He does not say “the abominable, the utterly despicable one” but simply named him from his city, “Judas Iscariot.” He does so because there was also another Judas, “Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus,”
  2. Life of Mary as seen by the Mystics -- Venerable Anne Catherine Emmerich, Venerable Mary of Agreda, St. Bridget of Sweden and St. Elizabeth Schoenau
    1. Described Judas 
      1. Good looking man with black hair and a reddish beard
      2. Charming and clever
      3. 25 years old businessman
      4. Illegitimate son of a dancer and an army officer -- we know from Scripture that his father was named Simon
      5. Very well dressed, eager to oblige
      6. Talked too much
      7. Liked to make himself appear important
      8. Intensely ambitious for fame, wealth and honors
      9. Saw that people were identifying Jesus as the Messiah and the future King of Israel
      10. Very active and zealous
      11. Criticized the human faults of his associates
      12. Especially jealous of the popularity of the apostle John.  
      13. Mother Mary loved him, but he rejected her, rebuked her for suggesting that he was opening his heart to evil.  
        1. Mother's love -- what he really needed.  He had his plan.  
        2. He rejected her.  
      14. Growing dislike for both Mary and Jesus, and the hardships of being an apostle. 
      15. Financial mismanagement -- choosing poverty.  

  3. Chosen by Jesus -- why did Jesus choose him?  
    1. Seems like a bad idea
    2. Unstable, unreliable
    3. Jesus chose Judas Iscariot because of Judas' need.  My opinion -- Judas was deeply wounded, long history of shame.  Jesus was going to work with him closely for three years.  
      1. Jesus doesn't always choose his key players because of their strengths and talents.  Sometimes he chooses them for their weaknesses.
      2. He gives us positions that are suited to meet our needs -- in the challenges and the struggles that they offer us.  
      3. I'm not worthy.  Well, that may be true.  God will work with it.  
  4. Social and Cultural Factors
    1. Roman oppression -- followed the Egyptian slavery and the Babylonian captivity
    1. Deep desires for a temporal savior -- assumption that it would be a military leader
      1. Joshua, who led the Israelites into the promised land after the exodus and conquered the Canaanites.  

      1. Like David -- David was a type of Jesus, and David had great military conquests
      1. Not unreasonable.  

    1. External change is needed.  
      1. Assumption that external changes are needed to make everything all right.
      2. Analogous to liberation theology, social justice focus.
      3. Revolutionaries are particularly prone to fall into this mistake -- not tending to their internal systems, not finding peace in Christ, not repenting and turning to God, not removing the beam from their own eye
      4. Instead they focus on changing society, in government, in culture, that's where we need to focus our energies.  We need the proletariat to rise up and crush the oppression of the bourgeoisie.    The perceived practical solution is not prayer and union with God, but rather the time and energy and focus is on stopping election fraud and resisting government control and so on.  
        1. Not saying those aren't important.  But they are not at the center.  They are not Jesus' first message of repenting or his first commandment of loving God with your whole heart soul and strength.  With all of you.  That's first.  The relationship with God. 
        2. Then, when you are focused on that intimacy with God, the personal relationship, the connection, then out of that you love your neighbor.  You can't really love your neighbor if you are disconnected from God.  Because God is Love.  We start with the first commandment, which can really change how we see the second commandment. 
      5. Pursuing external changes through societal reforms and culture shifts and revolutions and all that is easier than healing and growing internally.  A focus on the external distracts us from the real work.  Removing the beam from our own eye, loving ourselves in an ordered way.  

    1. Active sedition -- parties for independence
      1. Uprisings.  

      1. Simon the Zealot -- another apostle. 

      1. Barabbas -- often characterized as a robber.  But according to Mark 15:7, Barrabas was in prison because he had taken part in a recent uprising.  So he may have been a political and military rebel, a freedom fighter, any may have been popular with the people.  

  6. What do we know from scripture
    1. Judas carried the purse.  
      1. He was the treasurer -- he wanted to manage the financial affairs of the community.  
      2. And he stole from it -- entitled
        1. Simplistic version of the story -- he was greedy, he coveted things
        1. More nuanced understanding
          1. Why do people steal?  Greed.  Ok.  They want something OK.  

          1. But what about other possibilities?  What about symbolic meaning?
            1. Rich celebrities who shoplift  

            1. Sometimes people can't tell you why they steal.  

            1. Sometimes people steal for the thrill of it and throw away the merchandise.  Hard to call that greed.  

            1. Something is missing.  Something that he is entitled to
            1. He is stealing from the community -- From Jesus.  He is taking something from Jesus and the other apostles, he is taking money, a kind of sustenance.  

            1. A void inside.  Some kind of whole that would be filled by the sustenance of Jesus.  By what the money represented.  

      4. Judas was in the community physically -- physically present, but cut off relationally.  

    1. Chapter 22 of St. Luke tells us that 
      1. Satan entered into Judas 
        1. Doesn't say that Judas formally invited Satan in.  He wasn't necessarily just totally committed to vice and evil.  
        2. Not necessarily seeking a relationship with Satan. Satan is sneaky.  
      2. Judas went to the high priests, the Jewish authorities before the Last Supper.  
      3. Why did he do it?

  7. Judas relies on his own vision, his own understanding
    1. Judas was so wrapped up in his own understanding
      1. He was taken over by a part -- a narcissistic part defending against shame, needing glory, needing recognition, needing to control events, needing to manipulate Christ
        1. Each part has a personality.  This part's personality was that of a narcissist.  Psychoanalytic Diagnosis, 2ndEd.  Nancy McWilliams
          1. Narcissism -- there is something missing from my inner life.  A deficit model.  
            1. Feels fraudulent and loveless
            2. What is common to narcissistic personalities is an inner sense of insufficiency, shame, weakness and inferiority.  Terrified of those things.  
            3. "Feelings of shame and fears of being shamed pervade the subjective experience of narcissistic people."
            4. Narcissistic parts hold the person up to unrealistic ideals, and either try to convince themselves that they have attained the ideas -- and then they become grandiose.  Or they fall short and feel inherently flawed and defective rather than forgivably human -- depressive outcome 
            5. Need for others is deep, but their love for them is shallow.  
            6. Always aware of being judged.  Can't tolerate it.  Can't tolerate being negatively appraised.  E.g. with Mary.  
            7. Fear of fragmentation of their self -- awareness of fragility -- but if I climb high enough, if I get enough external affirmation, respect, admiration, esteem -- then I will be all right.  I will be fine!  Survival.  
            8. Narcissistic people avoid feelings and actions that express awareness of personal fallibility or realistic dependence on others.  
            9. Repentance and gratitude are very difficult.  Admission of guilt or dependency exposes something unacceptably shameful.  
            10. Attempts to fill the void -- can look like greed and vanity.  

        1. St. Cyril of Alexandria.  Whenever he gains possession of anyone’s soul, he does not attack him by means of general vice. He rather searches for that particular passion that has power over him and by its means makes him his prey. 

        1. Satan attacks through parts.  Satan wants to take the core self of Judas down by approaching him through his narcissistic part that needs glory and recognition and is entitled because of shame.  Not content to be a disciple, and apostle, even with all the miracles Judas wrought.  
          1. Tempting him at a natural level.
          2. Grace perfects nature.  

      1. Proverbs 3:5.

    1. Motivation 
      1. was not for 30 pieces of silver -- St. Jerome - it was greed.  
        1. How much money?
          1. Price of a slave.  30 pieces of silver is what Joseph's brothers sold him for to the Midianites
          1. 30 shekels -- 10.5 grams per shekel.  315 grams 10.1 Troy oz.  $24.01/t oz or $243.   

          1. Denarius was a days wage for a soldier and was 4.5 g.  30 shekels would be 70 days wages.  Maybe around $5000  $7000 in todays wages.  

          1. Price of a field.  Potter's field.  

        3. Backlash would be huge.  Selling your teacher, your master into death. Not worth it.  Condemnation.  Jesus had a huge following last week.  Life could be at risk.  Reputation would be shot.  
        4. Not very much money.  
      2. I don't think Judas thought that betraying Jesus to the Jewish authorities would lead to death.  
      3. I think Judas' dominant manager part basically narcissistic. That narcissitic manager part was motivated by a mixture of idealism and a need to matter, a need to be big.
      4. Idealism  --  Judas may have thought that Jesus was neglecting the temporal issues -- Jesus' approach is not going to get rid of the Roman oppression -- if he turned Jesus over to the authorities, Jesus would have to act
        1. Get large and in charge
        1. Manifest his power, begin the revolution!  

        1. Jesus wouldn't allow his mission to be destroyed by death -- no Jesus would rouse himself, get away from all the navel gazing and inward focus and spiritual abstractions and the shoulder-rubbing with social outcasts and sinner and get down to dealing with the real issues -- dealing with the Romans and the Herodians and the Sadducees who were in league with them -- The external stuff.  

        1. Bringing about a society that would be much closer to heaven on earth.  

        1. And Judas, Judas Iscariot would be the one who gave him the push that he needed, who opened Jesus' eyes to the magnitude of his mission, who set up the situation that would launch the revolution.  

        1. When Jesus then took over as the supreme leader, when he climbed the heights of temporal power, when he was crowned as king of the Jews, then
          1. Judas would bask in the reflection of Jesus' glory
          1. Then, by association with Jesus, and by his role in catapulting Jesus into action, Judas would shine in the reflected light of Jesus' earthly glory -- then Judas would get what he was entitled to, what he had worked for.  

          1. Judas would then be important, he would matter, he would be big, he would be the master strategist for Jesus' ascent to power, he would have called the tactics. 

          1. Judas --  I am called by God in this mission.  God supports this. 

        1. Louis de Wohl, The Spear.  Historical novel -- about the passion and death of Christ.  

  1. The Last Supper
    1. Jesus washed Judas' feet
    1. Jesus place Judas at his left hand -- place of honor.  Giving him honor, attention, physical proximity.  Yearning, willing for him to connect.  Not riding him, not condemning him.  

    1. In Luke 22 it is after the first Eucharist with Judas -- giving Judas his body and blood -- uniting with him in that way -- that Jesus discusses Judas' betrayal.  
      1. Such great love
      2. Such great understanding.  

    1. Luke 22:21-22 Be yet behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.  And the Son of man indeed goeth, but yet, woe to that man by whom he shall be betrayed.  
      1. Not calling Judas out right away.  Giving him time to consider.  Gentle with him.  
        1. ONE OF YOU WILL BETRAY ME. CHRYSOSTOM: “When it was evening, he sat at table with the twelve disciples; and as they were eating, he said, ‘Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.’” Even before the supper he had washed the feet of Judas. See how he spares the traitor. He did not say, “Judas, you will betray me,” but only “one of you will betray me.” This was again to offer time for repentance by keeping his identity concealed. He was willing to allow all the others to be alarmed, just for the sake of redeeming this one. All the others, whose feet he had washed and who had accompanied him everywhere and to whom he had promised so many things, were alarmed unnecessarily because of the one. THE GOSPEL OF MATTHEW, HOMILY 81.1.15

  1. By verse 24 The apostles are striving among themselves about who is the greater.  
IS IT I, LORD? CHRYSOSTOM: Intolerable sorrow then seized that holy company. John says, “The disciples looked at one another, uncertain of whom he spoke.”16 Each of them asked in fear concerning himself, although conscious to themselves of no such imagination. But Matthew writes, “They were very sorrowful and began to say to him one after another, ‘Is it I, Lord?’” He answered, “He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me will betray me.”
Note precisely at what time Jesus revealed his identity. It was when it was his will to deliver the rest from this trouble. For they were horrified with fear and pressing in their questions. He wanted to give Judas time to change his mind, but he wanted also to relieve the others from their distress. But Judas continued to be incorrigible and past any hope of change. So now he is unmasked. THE GOSPEL OF MATTHEW, HOMILY 81.1.17 -- Unforgivable sin.  Blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.  
THEY WERE SORROWFUL. JEROME: The others were grieved and very much saddened as they questioned Christ: “Surely, Lord, you don’t mean me?” Lest he seem to betray himself by keeping silent, he too, whose conscience was troubling him and who had boldly placed his hand in the dish, questioned him: “Surely, teacher, you don’t mean me?” To this he added lip homage and a show of incredulity. The others, who were not traitors, said, “Surely, Lord, you don’t mean me?” He who was the traitor did [NT Vol. IB, p. 247] not call him Lord but teacher, as if to have an excuse, upon rejecting the Lord, for having betrayed at most a teacher. “Jesus answered, ‘You have said so.’” The traitor was put to shame by the same response Christ would later give to Pilate.19 COMMENTARY ON MATTHEW
  1. Judas's suicide
    1. Horrible realization that Jesus was going to die, that he had betrayed him
      1. Rocked his narcissistic part to the core.  His manager came unglued.  Chaos entered his system.
      1. Great sense of shock -- horrified that his plans had unraveled. 

      1. He was now going to be ridiculed, condemned, treated with disgust, contempt, shamed -- everything that his narcissistic manager part was trying to avoid.  
        1. IFS principle -- when a part acts autonomously, not guided by the core self, when we let our passion run us, that part always winds up getting exactly what it was trying to avoid.  

      1. Undoing
        1. Undoing is an unconscious effort to counterbalance some affect -- usually guilt or shame with an attitude or behavior that will magically erase it. 

        1. "Ungeschehen machen"  defense mechanism. Transliterated, it means "making un-happen"
        1. Taking the money back to the priests -- looking for human contact

      1. Priests were very direct that it was blood money.  No bones about it, yep, you sold him to us for the price of a slave, and we are going to kill him.  
        1. No empathy for Judas.  They had used and discarded him.  
        2. The priests did not want to see Judas' remorse -- because of what that activated in them, their own guilt, their own consciences.  
        3. So the priests shamed Judas, compounding his misery and bringing him another step closer to despair.  
        4. Can't put the blood money in the treasury
        5. Buy the potter's field with it.  

    1. Thoughts
      1. Jesus would never forgive me -- because Judas was casting Jesus in his own image and likeness.  

      1. I've ruined everything.  There is no hope for me, I can't bear this shame and humiliation, the loss of my reputation, the scorn that is waiting for me, the rejection, the condemnation, the infamy
      1. I am the killer of Jesus.  

    1. Notice how Judas continues to rely on his own strength and knowledge.  He is trying to be big.  He totally misunderstands God
      1. He does not pray.  He does not reach out to Mary, to the other apostles, to anyone other than his co-conspirators in the murder of Jesus.  

    1. Despair as the murder weapon, suicide weapon.
    1. Hangs himself with a halter
      1. Definition of a halter: headgear that is used to lead or tie up livestock
      1. Here on the farm we use halters for cows and calves and we have used them for sheep.  Halters are used to lead an animal, to guide it.  Really to help it.  

      1. Judas put the halter on himself.  He led himself to his death, to his destruction
      1. He was not led by the Good Shepherd.  He did not listen, he did not pray, he relied on his own understanding, the limited, distorted perceptions of his narcissistic part and other parts.  

    1. Good intentions -- sinful means -- driven by parts that are not connected with the self, not integrated, have very limited visions and may use totally sinful means to carry out their plans, even when their intentions are good.  

  3. Possibility for Redemption -- could have been the greatest story ever -- if Judas had repented.  
    1. Judas had the opportunity to have made the greatest comeback ever, the greatest repentance ever.  There was the real loss.  Jesus loved him would have forgiven him.  
    2. Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
      1. Very troubling to me.  Why let him be born?  Seems unfair, seems like a setup.  

      1. High stakes table. 

      1. Graces abounding
    4. Parts operating on their own become our own worst perpetrators.  They can really abuse us.  We have to govern our internal systems from our core self, and be integrated.  
    5. Highly traumatized people are still morally responsible for their actions, though their culpability can be mitigated.
    6.  Road to hell can be paved with good intentions.  
  4. Exercise -- Judas in you.  Narcissism in you -- 
    1. need for approval, need to be admired, need to be big, important
    2. Inadequacy, being small weak, needing help.  
    3. React to
      1. Being a child
      1. I am weak.
      1. I have deep needs
      1. I am far from perfect
      1. I am fragmented 

    8. How about your sins -- the things you have felt guilty about or ashamed of.  The things you have tried not to think about, that you've tried to hide from yourself and from God.  
      1. Do you think they are worse than what Judas did?  Worse than betraying Christ and sending him to His crucifixion
      2. Remember how he treated Judas -- with what love and gentleness, with what compassion.
      3. There is no sin.  Not murder, rape, abuse, extramarital affairs, fornication, pornography use, masturbation that can't be forgiven.  You omissions too, all those can be forgiven -- all the times you refused to love God or others.   All these can be forgiven if we approach the love of God.  
      4. Are you sins really bigger than the love of Jesus?  Really?  Bigger than the love of Jesus -- who reached out with gentleness and compassion to his betrayer on the worst night of his life.
      5. Let's shift the perspective.  Let's not focus so much on our sins, our failure, our weakness.  
      6. Let's look at Jesus.  Let's look at Mary.  Let's see the love of God that is bigger than whatever sins we have committed.  God's love is bigger than our unlove, our lack of love.  
  5. Wrap
    1. Next week -- next episode -- we will be discussing a story of shame and redemption -- St. Peter's story.  And a bonus tidbit episode on St. Dismas -- the thief on the cross next to Jesus, I will discuss his story in a bonus podcast just for RCCD members.
    1. Super excited about the community.  Really considering what it's about.  It's about healing.  It's about removing psychological obstacles to loving and being loved.  It's about your core self really leading all your parts, all your passions in an ordered, governed, loving way.  Its about being together as Catholics on a journey, on a mission to really enter into an intimate personal relationship with Jesus Christ our brother, the Holy Spirit who is Love Himself and with our spiritual parents, God the Father and Mary our Mother.  It's about sharing our experiences in that journey on that mission.  

    1. Get on the waiting list so you will get information before the general public does.  I will be reaching out to those on the waiting list soon.  

    1. Can start by sharing these podcast -- spotify, apple podcasts, google play, amazon.  Share it on social media -- buttons are on our website at  -- get your word out there, with your personal recommendation -- how these episodes have helped you.  Share them, let others know 

    1. You can reach out to me at 317.567.9594 or at 

    1. Last Wednesday, second Wed.  December 9, 2020 at 7:30 -8:30 PM EST.   dicussion shame and the spiritual life -- really focused on parts and on how parts cope with shame and how does that impact prayer and our personal relationship with Christ and with each other.
    1. Patronness and Patron.

What is Interior Integration for Catholics?

In the Resilient Catholics podcast, together, we seek fundamental transformation in our lives through human formation. We look for God's providence in all that happens to us, in accord with Romans 8:28, grounded in an authentic Catholic worldview. Join us as we sail through uncharted waters, seizing the opportunities for psychological and spiritual growth and increasing resilience in the natural and spiritual realms. With a clear takeaway message and one action in each weekly episode, you can move from dreading what is happening to you to rising above it. Join us on Mondays for new episodes. You can also join our online community around this podcast at