1 00:00:02,035 --> 00:00:05,338 Hi, I'm Mollie Thompson, and this is the ProSource podcast. 2 00:00:05,672 --> 00:00:09,075 In each episode, we'll be talking to industry experts, including trade 3 00:00:09,075 --> 00:00:12,445 professionals, suppliers and our showroom staff 4 00:00:12,445 --> 00:00:15,715 about a variety of topics within home and commercial projects. 5 00:00:16,049 --> 00:00:17,984 Enjoy. 6 00:00:17,984 --> 00:00:22,155 If you don't mind Kyle, just telling us a little bit about what Shaw is. 7 00:00:22,188 --> 00:00:25,492 If someone has no clue and then also what you do for Shaw. 8 00:00:25,825 --> 00:00:26,059 Yeah. 9 00:00:26,059 --> 00:00:30,196 So Sean is, one of the largest foreign manufacturers in the world. 10 00:00:30,196 --> 00:00:34,067 starting with, the company was founded based on carpet. 11 00:00:34,534 --> 00:00:37,637 and then expanded into multiple hard surface categories. 12 00:00:37,637 --> 00:00:39,672 And so, the industry evolved. 13 00:00:39,672 --> 00:00:42,709 so we are participating in just about all hard surface 14 00:00:42,709 --> 00:00:46,112 categories, along with carpet being our core as well. 15 00:00:46,112 --> 00:00:49,883 And so my role within Shaw, I'm the category director of hardwood 16 00:00:49,883 --> 00:00:51,551 flooring and laminate flooring. 17 00:00:51,551 --> 00:00:53,820 How long have you been with with Shaw? 18 00:00:53,820 --> 00:00:55,321 Almost two and a half years. 19 00:00:55,321 --> 00:00:56,056 Okay. Wow. 20 00:00:56,056 --> 00:00:57,223 Yeah. Yeah, it's. 21 00:00:57,223 --> 00:00:58,691 It's been. It's been a lot of fun. 22 00:00:58,691 --> 00:00:59,993 a lot of changes. 23 00:00:59,993 --> 00:01:01,494 A lot of things have involved in the industry. 24 00:01:01,494 --> 00:01:04,230 But, you know, I really love the company. 25 00:01:04,230 --> 00:01:05,565 the culture is incredible. 26 00:01:05,565 --> 00:01:07,067 people are great. 27 00:01:07,067 --> 00:01:07,934 That's awesome. 28 00:01:07,934 --> 00:01:08,601 Good to hear. 29 00:01:08,601 --> 00:01:11,404 So today's episode is all about hardwood. 30 00:01:11,404 --> 00:01:13,339 So with more modern designs, 31 00:01:13,339 --> 00:01:17,077 hardwood has stayed near the top of the flooring option rotation. 32 00:01:17,410 --> 00:01:21,481 Why do you think it has stayed so relevant or what has kept it so relevant? 33 00:01:22,449 --> 00:01:23,283 I mean, 34 00:01:23,283 --> 00:01:27,554 if you really think about it, it's the oldest or the second oldest 35 00:01:27,554 --> 00:01:32,125 hard surface flooring option that's been around next to stone. 36 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,996 I mean, hardwood flooring started being used in the 1600s. 37 00:01:36,996 --> 00:01:39,933 Right. So everybody is familiar with hardwood. 38 00:01:39,933 --> 00:01:43,403 it's it's stood the test of time, people. 39 00:01:43,403 --> 00:01:45,405 It's proven people know it. 40 00:01:45,405 --> 00:01:48,708 And if you really think about it as other product 41 00:01:48,708 --> 00:01:51,778 categories have evolved, they're leveraging wood looks. 42 00:01:51,778 --> 00:01:54,881 So people are inspired by real hardwood. 43 00:01:55,281 --> 00:01:58,985 Now whether they choose to go with a wood 44 00:01:58,985 --> 00:02:02,188 look alternative I think depends upon what their, 45 00:02:03,189 --> 00:02:05,792 you know, living conditions are, what their lifestyles like. 46 00:02:05,792 --> 00:02:06,860 And what their budget is. 47 00:02:06,860 --> 00:02:08,761 But people who know hardwood 48 00:02:08,761 --> 00:02:11,998 and understand the benefits of it are going to seek out hardwood. 49 00:02:12,398 --> 00:02:16,236 So, I mean, the industry continues to innovate and change, 50 00:02:16,236 --> 00:02:20,540 but I mean, at the end of the day, we're still utilizing most of the same species. 51 00:02:20,807 --> 00:02:24,210 Now the technologies with finishes and textures have evolved, 52 00:02:24,277 --> 00:02:26,713 you know, evolution into engineered hardwood flooring 53 00:02:26,713 --> 00:02:29,716 and things of that nature and allowed us to go wider and longer. 54 00:02:30,517 --> 00:02:33,453 but yeah, that that's hopefully that answers your question there. 55 00:02:33,453 --> 00:02:35,922 But I mean, what is typically 56 00:02:35,922 --> 00:02:38,925 the inspiration of most hard surface flooring shopping? 57 00:02:39,692 --> 00:02:42,962 Yeah, I feel like people really like that classic look. 58 00:02:43,229 --> 00:02:46,599 And we you touched on it a little bit, that it's that look 59 00:02:46,599 --> 00:02:49,602 is replicated in different kinds of fashions. 60 00:02:49,669 --> 00:02:54,541 Why do you think that going to straight hardwood would be the better choice? 61 00:02:54,574 --> 00:02:57,677 I know it's probably more expensive than some other options 62 00:02:57,677 --> 00:03:00,246 that look like hardwood, but they're not hardwood. 63 00:03:00,246 --> 00:03:04,484 Why would you vouch for maybe spending a little bit more and getting that hardwood? 64 00:03:05,218 --> 00:03:06,486 So durability, right. 65 00:03:06,486 --> 00:03:08,054 That's that's a big one. 66 00:03:08,054 --> 00:03:10,557 it's it's the real deal. 67 00:03:10,557 --> 00:03:12,358 No one board is the same. Right? 68 00:03:12,358 --> 00:03:14,894 So you're not going to see any repeats. 69 00:03:14,894 --> 00:03:16,796 it's 100% natural. 70 00:03:16,796 --> 00:03:19,666 it's not an image printed on anything. 71 00:03:19,666 --> 00:03:21,334 It is the real deal. 72 00:03:21,334 --> 00:03:25,338 so everything you see, I mean, kind of tells the story of the tree, right? 73 00:03:25,371 --> 00:03:27,307 You've got mineral streaking in the wood. 74 00:03:27,307 --> 00:03:27,507 What? 75 00:03:27,507 --> 00:03:31,511 You know, that's how the tree absorbs and transfer moisture throughout the tree. 76 00:03:31,945 --> 00:03:37,383 I mean, it just it's it's natural beauty, you know, based on scholarly research, 77 00:03:37,383 --> 00:03:40,520 that it is the only hard surface flooring option out there to. 78 00:03:40,653 --> 00:03:44,891 That shows to get you 100% return on your investment and add value to your home. 79 00:03:45,225 --> 00:03:45,992 Oh that's awesome. 80 00:03:45,992 --> 00:03:47,961 I didn't I didn't know that actually. Yeah. 81 00:03:47,961 --> 00:03:50,263 So that's that's a big reason that, you know, 82 00:03:50,263 --> 00:03:53,333 we really don't talk about it in the industry as we should. 83 00:03:53,833 --> 00:03:55,635 But I mean, people when, 84 00:03:55,635 --> 00:03:58,771 when they walk into a home and realtors love this as well, 85 00:03:59,038 --> 00:04:01,374 that the first thing you see is the flooring, right. 86 00:04:01,374 --> 00:04:05,378 You know, you got your head down the knob and you walk in and and you see the form. 87 00:04:05,378 --> 00:04:08,381 So if you've got real hardwood, it really sets the tone 88 00:04:08,648 --> 00:04:11,718 of, you know what that home has to offer. 89 00:04:11,751 --> 00:04:14,354 And it's beautiful in your opinion. 90 00:04:14,354 --> 00:04:15,455 It is very timeless. 91 00:04:15,455 --> 00:04:17,957 We've talked about, it's also very trendy. 92 00:04:17,957 --> 00:04:19,993 I feel like it never goes out of style. 93 00:04:19,993 --> 00:04:22,762 How does it balance both sides of being timeless, but 94 00:04:22,762 --> 00:04:25,765 also trendy in current times, in your opinion? 95 00:04:26,432 --> 00:04:27,867 You know, here's the thing about hardwood. 96 00:04:27,867 --> 00:04:29,102 You could have, you know, 97 00:04:29,102 --> 00:04:34,040 a very rustic species such as hickory, right, that really blend. 98 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,810 It can it can go more contemporary depending on how you design your home. 99 00:04:37,810 --> 00:04:42,215 And then it also can fit very well into a rustic cabin environment. 100 00:04:42,215 --> 00:04:45,918 So there's a lot of versatility there with multiple wood species. 101 00:04:46,386 --> 00:04:49,022 you have the ability to sand and refinish. 102 00:04:49,022 --> 00:04:53,192 if you wanted to change the look or if there's any damage or anything of that 103 00:04:53,192 --> 00:04:57,830 nature, you can you can sand and refinish it and change the stain color. 104 00:04:58,097 --> 00:05:01,968 You know, technology has evolved with finishing and then and dimensions. 105 00:05:01,968 --> 00:05:05,138 So with the growth and engineered, you're able to go 106 00:05:05,138 --> 00:05:08,308 from where the widest you would typically go with a solid hardwood. 107 00:05:08,808 --> 00:05:11,511 you can go up to, you know, 10 to 12in. 108 00:05:11,511 --> 00:05:16,015 Now, if you have a really large open floor plan that looks those wide boards 109 00:05:16,015 --> 00:05:17,250 look really good. 110 00:05:17,250 --> 00:05:19,585 And then from a dimensional stability standpoint, 111 00:05:19,585 --> 00:05:22,555 I mean, the introduction of engineered really changed the game 112 00:05:22,555 --> 00:05:26,359 because there's climates out there in the US, you know, in Colorado 113 00:05:26,359 --> 00:05:29,495 and in Nevada and Utah that aren't conducive 114 00:05:29,495 --> 00:05:32,498 for solid hardwood form because they're so dry. 115 00:05:32,665 --> 00:05:36,602 So having a, plywood or an HDF core, really, 116 00:05:36,903 --> 00:05:40,006 that opens up the door for those people to have real hard wood in their homes. 117 00:05:40,039 --> 00:05:41,107 So that's interesting. 118 00:05:41,107 --> 00:05:45,978 What would you say is like the number one driving force of hardwood trends? 119 00:05:45,978 --> 00:05:47,380 I know a lot of people have talked 120 00:05:47,380 --> 00:05:51,250 about just getting on Pinterest and seeing what everyone's really into. 121 00:05:51,417 --> 00:05:55,455 Do you think it's something as simple as that, or something maybe even greater, 122 00:05:55,455 --> 00:05:58,458 that is pushing some of these trends that we see in hardwood? 123 00:05:59,058 --> 00:06:02,695 Look, I'm no designer by any means, but I do follow trends. 124 00:06:02,729 --> 00:06:06,666 I mean, if you look at the trends over time, it's it's really you went 125 00:06:06,666 --> 00:06:09,736 from this contemporary trend to where more modern 126 00:06:09,736 --> 00:06:12,772 contemporary and then, you know, things are evolving. 127 00:06:12,772 --> 00:06:17,944 More people like more natural and rustic, you know, visuals they like, I call it, 128 00:06:18,044 --> 00:06:22,515 appreciation of depreciation, repurposing things. 129 00:06:22,515 --> 00:06:25,051 So hardwood goes well with that. 130 00:06:25,051 --> 00:06:27,787 again, the natural visual 131 00:06:27,787 --> 00:06:31,424 I think will always in its history will carry hardwood. 132 00:06:31,891 --> 00:06:34,494 and we can continue to innovate 133 00:06:34,494 --> 00:06:37,830 with finishes to kind of adapt to those trends. 134 00:06:38,231 --> 00:06:41,234 You know, typically trends start in Europe and they and they 135 00:06:41,701 --> 00:06:44,670 move eastward and then come around and then 136 00:06:44,737 --> 00:06:48,808 come back for California and then move for in the United States. So, 137 00:06:50,276 --> 00:06:51,411 hardwoods very versatile. 138 00:06:51,411 --> 00:06:54,414 I wouldn't say hardwood floor necessarily sets the trend, 139 00:06:54,547 --> 00:06:58,251 but it's just one of those products that can adapt because of your 140 00:06:58,651 --> 00:07:02,522 the can kind of fit into all these trends, because of the available species. 141 00:07:02,789 --> 00:07:04,190 They provide different visuals 142 00:07:04,190 --> 00:07:08,327 that the trend is more subtle and neutral than a white oak. 143 00:07:08,327 --> 00:07:11,597 And what you're seeing trending right now will work well if it's more rustic. 144 00:07:12,632 --> 00:07:15,768 then you've got acacia, you've got hickory, you've got, 145 00:07:15,768 --> 00:07:19,439 you know, several species out there that really offer 146 00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:23,109 a lot of variation, and uniqueness in the home. 147 00:07:23,242 --> 00:07:28,581 Have you seen manufacturing be impacted by these trends or not? 148 00:07:28,648 --> 00:07:29,615 Yeah, yeah for sure. 149 00:07:29,615 --> 00:07:33,252 I mean, if you look at, if you look at, you know, ten years ago, 150 00:07:34,787 --> 00:07:38,024 the, the bulk of the, the wood market was two and a quarter, 151 00:07:38,024 --> 00:07:41,194 three and a quarter and five inch on the engineered side. 152 00:07:41,194 --> 00:07:44,497 You know, it was it was somewhat it was relatively new. 153 00:07:44,497 --> 00:07:47,099 It was predominantly solid hardwood flooring. 154 00:07:47,099 --> 00:07:49,802 and then, you know, the introduction 155 00:07:49,802 --> 00:07:52,772 of engineered really changed the game. 156 00:07:52,839 --> 00:07:54,774 And trends have gone wider and longer. 157 00:07:54,774 --> 00:07:57,276 So where it was two and a quarter, three and a quarter five, 158 00:07:57,276 --> 00:08:00,646 you know, you started to see six ounce than seven inch, eight inch 159 00:08:00,646 --> 00:08:05,051 and then wider and wider, and again, more growth and engineered. 160 00:08:05,318 --> 00:08:09,755 Are you seeing that there's a higher demand for solid or engineered floors? 161 00:08:10,456 --> 00:08:11,491 Engineered, definitely. 162 00:08:11,491 --> 00:08:14,494 If you look at the market data, the industry data, 163 00:08:14,627 --> 00:08:17,797 I would say right now I'm just giving you an approximate number. 164 00:08:17,830 --> 00:08:21,300 The mix between engineered and solid is about 7030. 165 00:08:21,534 --> 00:08:23,202 Okay. so 166 00:08:24,170 --> 00:08:27,673 and that's an average number, ballpark number, I should say. 167 00:08:27,673 --> 00:08:30,042 But yeah, 70% engineered, about 30% solid. 168 00:08:30,042 --> 00:08:32,979 Where ten years ago, that number was much different. 169 00:08:32,979 --> 00:08:36,048 That's very interesting to think about to just how quick that changes. 170 00:08:37,016 --> 00:08:39,452 Speaking about species, you've talked about it a little bit. 171 00:08:39,452 --> 00:08:42,822 Is there a certain is there a call for certain species more than others? 172 00:08:43,689 --> 00:08:46,692 Yes. Right now, and I say that before 173 00:08:46,692 --> 00:08:50,162 white oak is really driving the market right now. 174 00:08:50,263 --> 00:08:53,232 Nordic visuals, subtle texture, so subtle. 175 00:08:53,232 --> 00:08:54,033 Wire brushed 176 00:08:54,033 --> 00:08:57,970 and just more neutral tones are really what's what's trending right now. 177 00:08:57,970 --> 00:09:01,007 So we went from, you know, a couple of years back, it 178 00:09:01,007 --> 00:09:04,010 was, you know, gray, I mean, it was gray everywhere. 179 00:09:04,010 --> 00:09:07,013 Now it's more of a grays or a beige, 180 00:09:07,179 --> 00:09:10,516 and just lighter, lighter colors and subtle textures. 181 00:09:10,816 --> 00:09:11,651 I do know where. 182 00:09:11,651 --> 00:09:14,353 Yeah, the gray was everywhere. 183 00:09:14,353 --> 00:09:15,054 Yeah. 184 00:09:15,054 --> 00:09:18,057 And prior to prior to gray and kind of in tandem 185 00:09:18,057 --> 00:09:21,360 with gray actually was, you know, heavy distressing. 186 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,564 So heavy hand scrapes and things of that nature were really 187 00:09:25,097 --> 00:09:28,334 there features like that were really driving the industry. 188 00:09:28,334 --> 00:09:33,272 And and right now it's just it's all about lighter colors and subtle textures. 189 00:09:33,406 --> 00:09:33,906 Yeah. 190 00:09:33,906 --> 00:09:37,443 My mom is still on the distressing trend she loves. 191 00:09:37,443 --> 00:09:38,844 She can't let that go. 192 00:09:38,844 --> 00:09:43,983 How do you gauge the popularity of those wood species or finishes? 193 00:09:44,350 --> 00:09:48,087 How do you how can you tell necessarily what's really driving that? 194 00:09:48,888 --> 00:09:51,290 So we've got to well, there's multiple ways. 195 00:09:51,290 --> 00:09:54,961 you know, we've got a professional design team that travels around 196 00:09:54,994 --> 00:09:59,231 and they're in tune with with, the design industry 197 00:09:59,231 --> 00:10:02,168 and kind of understanding trends and what's going on. 198 00:10:02,168 --> 00:10:03,302 So they go to a lot of shows. 199 00:10:03,302 --> 00:10:05,171 We we get a lot of feedback from them. 200 00:10:05,171 --> 00:10:07,406 There's a lot of publications out there. 201 00:10:07,406 --> 00:10:11,344 but also to for me, I go out in the marketplace 202 00:10:11,344 --> 00:10:14,680 and I travel around and I see what's being displayed in showrooms. 203 00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:18,117 So that'll kind of give you people are going to show what selling. 204 00:10:19,118 --> 00:10:19,952 so if you, 205 00:10:19,952 --> 00:10:23,889 if you go into a dealer like a ProSource, for example, and I see 206 00:10:24,323 --> 00:10:27,893 multiple displays with light white oak, 207 00:10:27,927 --> 00:10:30,930 and that's telling me that like white oak is probably trending for sure. 208 00:10:30,930 --> 00:10:32,264 If I seen the inverse of that 209 00:10:32,264 --> 00:10:35,267 to where I see multiple displays with a lot of stained hickory. 210 00:10:35,267 --> 00:10:35,601 Okay. 211 00:10:35,601 --> 00:10:39,772 Well then the market's more rustic, but it's a combination of spending time 212 00:10:39,772 --> 00:10:43,175 in the marketplace and and leveraging our professional design team 213 00:10:43,509 --> 00:10:45,678 to give us that feedback. 214 00:10:45,678 --> 00:10:47,079 Awesome. 215 00:10:47,079 --> 00:10:51,183 so what excites you most about hardwood in the home right now? 216 00:10:51,417 --> 00:10:54,420 What, is really peaking your interest? 217 00:10:54,553 --> 00:10:58,658 I mean, people are sustainability is a big thing right now. 218 00:10:58,658 --> 00:10:59,325 People are really 219 00:10:59,325 --> 00:11:02,328 they want sustainable products that, you know, are going to, you know, 220 00:11:02,428 --> 00:11:04,263 and I have a reduction in carbon footprint. 221 00:11:04,263 --> 00:11:05,998 Well, when I think about hardwood and, 222 00:11:05,998 --> 00:11:08,968 you know, a lot of people think of this, you know, burly lumberjack 223 00:11:08,968 --> 00:11:12,872 going down and cutting down a tree and, and then it's it's really not sustainable. 224 00:11:12,872 --> 00:11:16,342 But and maybe that was the case 100 years ago. 225 00:11:16,342 --> 00:11:16,676 Right. 226 00:11:16,676 --> 00:11:19,178 Or you know, even sooner than that. 227 00:11:19,178 --> 00:11:21,080 But that's not the case anymore. 228 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,215 We I mean, multiple countries regulate their 229 00:11:23,215 --> 00:11:26,852 for their forestry management regulations are very stringent. 230 00:11:27,219 --> 00:11:29,321 You know, when they're going in and they're harvesting timber, 231 00:11:29,321 --> 00:11:30,623 they're replanting. 232 00:11:30,623 --> 00:11:33,592 so there's a lot of sustainable forestry going on. 233 00:11:34,293 --> 00:11:35,995 and I think we need to think about that. 234 00:11:35,995 --> 00:11:38,764 We need to talk about that. I mean, if it's regenerative. 235 00:11:38,764 --> 00:11:42,902 Now, don't get me wrong, it's not like a grass to where it comes back every year. 236 00:11:43,269 --> 00:11:46,038 But, you know, it may take some depending 237 00:11:46,038 --> 00:11:49,141 on the species, 30 to 100 years to be able to harvest. 238 00:11:49,141 --> 00:11:52,712 But, I mean, we're still being responsible about where we harvest. 239 00:11:53,012 --> 00:11:53,212 Yeah. 240 00:11:53,212 --> 00:11:56,282 And then making sure that we're being good stewards of the land. 241 00:11:56,716 --> 00:11:58,150 and that's important. 242 00:11:58,150 --> 00:12:00,519 So that's exciting to me, seeing trend shift 243 00:12:00,519 --> 00:12:03,522 in the sustainable species as the sustainable products 244 00:12:03,723 --> 00:12:07,426 and knowing that hard wood already fits that bucket hardwood is just, again, 245 00:12:08,194 --> 00:12:12,031 a lot of it's been the same, but there has been change visually. 246 00:12:12,031 --> 00:12:14,500 There's just so much you can do with it. 247 00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:17,336 and again, nothing beats the real thing. 248 00:12:17,336 --> 00:12:20,740 and the unique visuals, and, 249 00:12:20,740 --> 00:12:24,844 and a lot of the innovation and staining technologies, a lot of that 250 00:12:24,844 --> 00:12:28,748 and what it's doing to really enhance the wood visual really excites me. 251 00:12:28,748 --> 00:12:32,351 So you're going to see and you have seen with us, we've launched 252 00:12:32,451 --> 00:12:36,388 some oil rub finishes, some reactive stains, and they just look 253 00:12:36,756 --> 00:12:41,660 really, really good and just add another level of esthetics 254 00:12:41,660 --> 00:12:45,331 to that world and just really brings out the true beauty in that. 255 00:12:45,898 --> 00:12:49,101 No, I agree, and going back to the staining part, I feel like 256 00:12:49,101 --> 00:12:53,439 staining is, much more applicable now with social media. 257 00:12:53,439 --> 00:12:54,774 And you could just hop on YouTube 258 00:12:54,774 --> 00:12:57,777 and look at a tutorial on how to properly say you're saying something. 259 00:12:58,043 --> 00:13:02,281 So now people are able to repurpose hardwood in a lot more different ways. 260 00:13:02,281 --> 00:13:05,785 And maybe 50 years ago, when learning how to do that was more of a 261 00:13:06,152 --> 00:13:08,921 I need to know someone, to learn how to do that, 262 00:13:09,955 --> 00:13:11,190 you know, and, and you know, if you think 263 00:13:11,190 --> 00:13:14,527 about going back with sustainability and you just it kind of sparked, 264 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,930 something that came to mind for me that I didn't mention earlier. 265 00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:19,532 I talked about sustainable forestry. 266 00:13:19,532 --> 00:13:22,802 But again, if you buy a product and engineered product 267 00:13:22,802 --> 00:13:26,138 with a thick enough veneer face, you can sand and refinish multiple times. 268 00:13:26,138 --> 00:13:29,308 If you have solid hardware, you can sand refinish multiple times, so 269 00:13:29,308 --> 00:13:32,778 you're not having to tear up a product and then take it to a landfill. 270 00:13:32,878 --> 00:13:34,680 But with hardwood, 271 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:38,684 if you do take it to a landfill, it's going to decompose over time. 272 00:13:38,918 --> 00:13:41,487 I mean, it is it's an organic product. Yeah. 273 00:13:41,487 --> 00:13:43,889 So it will decompose and go back into the Earth. 274 00:13:43,889 --> 00:13:47,526 so that's something else to call out there from sustainability aspect. 275 00:13:47,893 --> 00:13:48,594 That's awesome. 276 00:13:48,594 --> 00:13:52,231 And I feel like a lot of people probably don't think about that too. 277 00:13:52,231 --> 00:13:54,700 And that's a big, for bad first impression, 278 00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:57,303 I think on hardwood with the sustainability factor, 279 00:13:57,303 --> 00:13:59,438 people just don't realize all those 280 00:13:59,438 --> 00:14:03,242 all those things in place that are keeping it in a sustainable category. 281 00:14:03,242 --> 00:14:05,110 So thank you for touching on that. 282 00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:10,115 Lastly, what is on the horizon for hardwood floors and going into 283 00:14:10,149 --> 00:14:14,787 the rest of this year or going into 2025, do you see any trends changing? 284 00:14:14,854 --> 00:14:18,324 The only trend and it's really the trend is shifting. 285 00:14:18,324 --> 00:14:23,095 And I've I've heard a lot of buzz about this in the marketplace more mid browns. 286 00:14:23,095 --> 00:14:25,598 So we're starting to you know kind of go back. 287 00:14:25,598 --> 00:14:28,200 So it's just it's like a it's it's a cycle. Yeah. 288 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,103 So we're we went to light and then now we're starting to see 289 00:14:31,103 --> 00:14:34,340 a little bit more trend in the more mid browns golden tones. 290 00:14:34,673 --> 00:14:35,908 And coming back around there. 291 00:14:35,908 --> 00:14:37,376 But white oak is again 292 00:14:37,376 --> 00:14:40,379 subtle neutral white oak that's still driving the marketplace. 293 00:14:40,446 --> 00:14:43,082 What we're trying to do is we're trying to leverage 294 00:14:43,082 --> 00:14:46,952 other species out there because I mean, no doubt about it, the 295 00:14:46,952 --> 00:14:51,223 the supply chain is constrained because everybody loves white cane. 296 00:14:51,223 --> 00:14:54,126 It's used in high end furniture, it's used in flooring, 297 00:14:54,126 --> 00:14:57,863 and it's used in the whiskey industry and the bourbon industry. 298 00:14:58,097 --> 00:15:00,232 So that's a that's a big deal there. 299 00:15:00,232 --> 00:15:03,402 And that takes up a lot of the the raw materials. 300 00:15:03,402 --> 00:15:06,839 So what I try to do is okay, what are other alternatives out there 301 00:15:06,839 --> 00:15:09,975 that we can produce really good looking visuals that align with trends. 302 00:15:09,975 --> 00:15:11,911 And you're going to see that with us. 303 00:15:11,911 --> 00:15:15,681 You know, we're launching some products at the back half of this year 304 00:15:16,081 --> 00:15:20,219 that really want to leverage oil rub finishes, cleaner grades 305 00:15:20,219 --> 00:15:24,223 and more neutral colors and alternative species that are more readily available, 306 00:15:24,390 --> 00:15:26,425 kind of along with those trends. 307 00:15:26,425 --> 00:15:27,793 Yeah. That's great. 308 00:15:27,793 --> 00:15:32,131 And you're going to see us continue to work with reactive stains and different 309 00:15:32,131 --> 00:15:36,268 and patterns and different finish techniques and textures that are, 310 00:15:36,268 --> 00:15:40,639 going to really kind of allow us to be in the trend later now. 311 00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:44,410 Yeah, I, I think White Oak is so easily able to, 312 00:15:44,410 --> 00:15:48,080 like, pair with so many different colors and decorations in the home. 313 00:15:48,314 --> 00:15:50,349 So I don't know if that'll be going away soon, 314 00:15:50,349 --> 00:15:54,019 but I have seen what you're touching on the mid browns coming in. 315 00:15:54,253 --> 00:15:58,791 people just going back to that like kind of Western look with their homes. 316 00:15:58,791 --> 00:16:01,327 Yeah. rustic maybe a little bit. 317 00:16:01,327 --> 00:16:03,696 Well, thank you so much for your time today, Kyle. 318 00:16:03,696 --> 00:16:05,731 thank you for speaking on hardwood. 319 00:16:05,731 --> 00:16:08,233 It was great to get your take on everything. Yeah. 320 00:16:08,233 --> 00:16:09,134 Thank you so much. 321 00:16:10,869 --> 00:16:11,770 We are going to switch 322 00:16:11,770 --> 00:16:15,541 things over to Kelly Oberschlake from Mohawk Industries. 323 00:16:15,641 --> 00:16:17,876 Kelly, do you mind giving listeners at home 324 00:16:17,876 --> 00:16:21,113 that might be not super familiar with Mohawk, What exactly 325 00:16:21,113 --> 00:16:24,416 Mohawk provides and also your role in the company? 326 00:16:24,917 --> 00:16:25,851 Absolutely. 327 00:16:25,851 --> 00:16:28,020 Thank you so much for having me today. 328 00:16:28,020 --> 00:16:33,659 First off, Mohawk Industries, we are the world's largest flooring manufacturer. 329 00:16:33,993 --> 00:16:36,662 We, make carpet, hardwood 330 00:16:36,662 --> 00:16:40,032 laminate, LPT, ceramic tile. 331 00:16:40,032 --> 00:16:45,204 We have a large, tile division Dow tile, which is based in Dallas, Texas. 332 00:16:45,504 --> 00:16:49,074 And the rest of us at Mohawk Corporate are based just outside of Atlanta. 333 00:16:49,074 --> 00:16:51,910 And my role I am vice president of sales. 334 00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:53,979 I handle our national accounts. 335 00:16:53,979 --> 00:16:57,216 and so I'm lucky to be with the pro Source group. 336 00:16:57,516 --> 00:16:58,484 Good deal. 337 00:16:58,484 --> 00:17:01,153 well, today we're going to be talking all about hardwood 338 00:17:01,153 --> 00:17:05,791 floors to start off, I wanted to ask you, why do you think that hardwood 339 00:17:05,791 --> 00:17:08,794 has stayed near the top of the flooring option rotation? 340 00:17:09,561 --> 00:17:10,195 previously. 341 00:17:10,195 --> 00:17:11,864 And even with more modern designs, 342 00:17:11,864 --> 00:17:14,933 why do you think, in your opinion, that it has kept so relevant? 343 00:17:15,501 --> 00:17:17,202 Well, first off, it's timeless. 344 00:17:17,202 --> 00:17:20,305 So, many of our grandparents had hardwood 345 00:17:20,305 --> 00:17:23,776 floors, and, we grew up on hardwood floors, 346 00:17:24,109 --> 00:17:28,747 so we trust them, just knowing that it is a durable product. 347 00:17:29,048 --> 00:17:32,684 most of the hardwood products can be refinished as well. 348 00:17:33,018 --> 00:17:35,788 And so it's a, product that you can keep 349 00:17:35,788 --> 00:17:38,791 in your home for a lifetime, for sure. I, 350 00:17:39,091 --> 00:17:44,129 I feel like especially nowadays, there's a lot of repurposing hardwood floors. 351 00:17:44,530 --> 00:17:48,300 re sanding them down, re staining and especially with, 352 00:17:48,534 --> 00:17:52,471 you know, more of a recent impact with like sustainability. 353 00:17:52,471 --> 00:17:55,674 Two people are looking for ways to repurpose that old hardwood. 354 00:17:55,707 --> 00:17:58,777 It is known for being timeless and trendy like you mentioned. 355 00:17:59,044 --> 00:18:02,881 How do you think it specifically balance both sides of being timeless 356 00:18:02,881 --> 00:18:05,884 but also trendy? When new, trends pop up? 357 00:18:06,485 --> 00:18:09,154 Well, I definitely think, it's timeless. 358 00:18:09,154 --> 00:18:15,027 Just, you know, from the, the natural looks and feel that you get with it. 359 00:18:15,027 --> 00:18:18,230 but you can definitely make it more trendy, 360 00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:21,233 by changing colors or different species. 361 00:18:21,633 --> 00:18:26,405 so I would definitely say that that species piece, can make it trendy, 362 00:18:26,405 --> 00:18:27,806 you know, years ago, Brazilian 363 00:18:27,806 --> 00:18:31,343 cherry was the thing everybody wanted Brazilian cherry in their home. 364 00:18:31,577 --> 00:18:34,947 that has actually gone out of style a bit. 365 00:18:35,214 --> 00:18:38,884 now we're looking at wider planks and European oaks, 366 00:18:39,051 --> 00:18:42,888 much more cleaner visuals, and lighter muted colors 367 00:18:44,523 --> 00:18:45,324 now for sure. 368 00:18:45,324 --> 00:18:45,991 Definitely. 369 00:18:45,991 --> 00:18:50,996 light like white oak type of species is is definitely. 370 00:18:50,996 --> 00:18:57,569 And do you think that moving into this a next year, maybe into 2025, 371 00:18:57,803 --> 00:18:58,504 do you see that 372 00:18:58,504 --> 00:19:02,174 there would be a different kind of trend from what we're seeing right now? 373 00:19:03,408 --> 00:19:06,011 Well, so we're always chasing trend and 374 00:19:06,011 --> 00:19:09,581 and we're always actually looking to see what is coming. 375 00:19:09,882 --> 00:19:15,354 we are following, you know, companies like Pottery Barn and Restoration Hardware 376 00:19:15,354 --> 00:19:20,192 and just to see what their furniture, we like to work in, 377 00:19:20,459 --> 00:19:24,062 and with the large suppliers, just, 378 00:19:24,062 --> 00:19:28,033 you know, with our ideas and what we're looking to, 379 00:19:28,033 --> 00:19:32,671 launch in 25 at Mohawk here we are such a large company. 380 00:19:32,671 --> 00:19:35,741 We're already working on visuals and, 381 00:19:35,741 --> 00:19:38,744 looks for 25 and 26 right now. 382 00:19:38,844 --> 00:19:41,647 but I still believe it is, still lighted, 383 00:19:41,647 --> 00:19:44,650 muted colors, and cleaner visuals. 384 00:19:44,750 --> 00:19:46,552 in 25 as well. 385 00:19:46,552 --> 00:19:49,855 Would you say that the new hardwood trends that do emerge, 386 00:19:50,322 --> 00:19:53,559 do those particularly impact manufacturing? 387 00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:54,393 Absolutely. 388 00:19:54,393 --> 00:19:57,763 Because, you know, for instance, hand scraped was extremely popular 389 00:19:57,763 --> 00:19:58,630 a few years ago. 390 00:19:58,630 --> 00:20:01,633 Those take certain types of machines to run that product. 391 00:20:02,301 --> 00:20:06,171 so for sure, and also with the wider, longer products 392 00:20:06,171 --> 00:20:10,509 that are popular now, we've added lots of machinery to our plants in order 393 00:20:10,509 --> 00:20:15,380 to manufacture wider, longer planks, that we did not have to have in the past. 394 00:20:15,380 --> 00:20:16,915 So previously, 395 00:20:16,915 --> 00:20:20,852 you know, three inch plank was, considered somewhat of a wide plank. 396 00:20:20,852 --> 00:20:23,855 Then it went to five, then it went to seven and nine and so on. 397 00:20:23,855 --> 00:20:27,092 So for sure we've had to adjust our manufacturing, 398 00:20:27,326 --> 00:20:30,495 to accommodate, new trends that are emerging. 399 00:20:30,495 --> 00:20:34,466 When you're looking at finishes, where do you think Greg compares 400 00:20:34,466 --> 00:20:37,669 in popularity to the typical brown tones to the stock? 401 00:20:38,103 --> 00:20:42,174 If you asked that question two years ago, I would have said gray is definitely in. 402 00:20:42,174 --> 00:20:43,675 Everybody wants Gray. Yeah. 403 00:20:43,675 --> 00:20:47,112 but right now the Browns have resurfaced and, 404 00:20:47,112 --> 00:20:51,316 they are actually far more popular than gray at this present time. 405 00:20:51,316 --> 00:20:56,722 So gray is definitely, had its run and it's while it's not completely gone, 406 00:20:56,722 --> 00:21:01,660 it's definitely not the color of choice, that we're seeing right now. 407 00:21:01,660 --> 00:21:03,695 It's more ivory tones and browns. 408 00:21:03,695 --> 00:21:07,432 And just out of curiosity, why do you think that more goldens 409 00:21:07,432 --> 00:21:10,836 or more browns are taking over the the White Oaks? 410 00:21:10,836 --> 00:21:12,738 Everything kind of runs its time, right? 411 00:21:12,738 --> 00:21:14,706 So it all goes full circle. 412 00:21:14,706 --> 00:21:18,143 And I think, gosh, the industry was so gray 413 00:21:18,143 --> 00:21:22,080 for a few years that I think, we are all over gray. 414 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,151 and, you know, carpet side, I will say that, gray 415 00:21:26,151 --> 00:21:30,055 carpet in, the South, especially where we are. 416 00:21:30,088 --> 00:21:31,023 Georgia. 417 00:21:31,023 --> 00:21:34,393 red clay is actually gray highlights red clay. 418 00:21:34,393 --> 00:21:36,495 So it shows everything. 419 00:21:36,495 --> 00:21:41,166 and brown tends to hide color a little bit more dirt, etc.. So 420 00:21:42,367 --> 00:21:43,502 that's, that's true. 421 00:21:43,502 --> 00:21:45,203 That's a good point. 422 00:21:45,203 --> 00:21:45,504 Yeah. 423 00:21:45,504 --> 00:21:50,442 how do you gauge the popularity of a wood species or a finish? 424 00:21:51,209 --> 00:21:53,645 So we are constantly tracking all of that. 425 00:21:53,645 --> 00:21:55,213 yeah. 426 00:21:55,213 --> 00:21:58,617 You know, based on sales, from all of our divisions. 427 00:21:58,850 --> 00:22:03,822 So we're constantly, tracking popularity of species and, 428 00:22:04,189 --> 00:22:07,159 like, us, I mentioned earlier, the large unit furniture companies, 429 00:22:07,159 --> 00:22:10,195 Pottery Barn, Restoration Hardware, we look to see where their trends 430 00:22:10,195 --> 00:22:15,334 are headed and try to make sure that we're working, and in team 431 00:22:15,334 --> 00:22:20,072 and in step with, the large manufacturers in the furniture industry as well, 432 00:22:20,072 --> 00:22:24,543 wood looks that are in other categories such as laminate, tile, luxury vinyl. 433 00:22:25,043 --> 00:22:27,879 Why would you say that hardwood is a better choice 434 00:22:27,879 --> 00:22:30,882 than some of those, like, look alike alternatives? 435 00:22:31,116 --> 00:22:33,652 well, I definitely, you know, it's the real deal. 436 00:22:33,652 --> 00:22:37,989 So, you know, all of the other products are trying to look like wood. 437 00:22:38,290 --> 00:22:40,726 but this is the real deal. 438 00:22:40,726 --> 00:22:41,426 It's wood. 439 00:22:41,426 --> 00:22:46,231 And, so we are seeing that there's, thicker face veneers that people are, 440 00:22:46,264 --> 00:22:51,336 you know, they prefer to be able to see that thick face, on a wood product, 441 00:22:51,670 --> 00:22:55,574 so that they know they are really paying for wood. 442 00:22:55,574 --> 00:22:58,443 They're getting wood. It's not a thin paper layer. 443 00:22:58,443 --> 00:23:01,179 and so, like I said, it's the real deal. 444 00:23:01,179 --> 00:23:04,950 If somebody is maybe concerned about the sustainability 445 00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:08,053 behind hardwood flooring, maybe someone from the outside 446 00:23:08,053 --> 00:23:11,857 looking at is wondering about the trees and just the sustainability behind it all. 447 00:23:11,857 --> 00:23:14,993 Do you have any, insights, I guess, on 448 00:23:14,993 --> 00:23:17,996 sustainability in hardwood flooring right now? 449 00:23:17,996 --> 00:23:18,663 Absolutely. 450 00:23:18,663 --> 00:23:23,235 So Beau Hawk, we fund, several programs, where we actually plant trees 451 00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:26,338 for every tree that we, our that is taken 452 00:23:26,338 --> 00:23:29,341 down in order to, manufacture wood. 453 00:23:29,608 --> 00:23:33,745 We actually invest heavily in sustainability programs 454 00:23:33,745 --> 00:23:36,782 to make sure that we are replanting trees back into the environment. 455 00:23:37,449 --> 00:23:38,216 Awesome. 456 00:23:38,216 --> 00:23:41,720 What excites you most personally about hardwood in the home? 457 00:23:42,287 --> 00:23:44,723 I just love it because like I said earlier and I've used 458 00:23:44,723 --> 00:23:48,627 we both have used the term a few times in this, interview, but it's timeless. 459 00:23:48,660 --> 00:23:51,663 and it is extremely durable. 460 00:23:52,030 --> 00:23:55,167 And, you know, I like knowing that I have the real deal. 461 00:23:55,167 --> 00:23:58,537 This might sound silly, but you know, it's like a purse. 462 00:23:58,970 --> 00:24:02,140 you know, if if you have the real deal and you know what? 463 00:24:02,140 --> 00:24:04,609 Maybe somebody else can see it and it doesn't look like it, but, 464 00:24:04,609 --> 00:24:05,977 you know, you have the real one. 465 00:24:05,977 --> 00:24:07,712 There's just something to be said for that. 466 00:24:07,712 --> 00:24:10,715 So, you know, I, I like to, 467 00:24:10,715 --> 00:24:14,052 know that it is a real product that's on the floor 468 00:24:14,052 --> 00:24:19,291 and there's no question and no two boards look alike because it is, natural. 469 00:24:19,291 --> 00:24:22,994 So you're not going to have to worry about repeats, etc.. 470 00:24:23,061 --> 00:24:25,764 because it is the real deal. 471 00:24:25,764 --> 00:24:28,366 Yeah. Especially the the durability too. 472 00:24:28,366 --> 00:24:31,970 I feel like if you're going to spend the money, you might as well get the best 473 00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:33,038 product right. 474 00:24:34,239 --> 00:24:38,243 So what do you think is on the horizon for hardwood floors next? 475 00:24:38,243 --> 00:24:42,214 I know we're kind of going through a transition period right now from grays 476 00:24:42,214 --> 00:24:45,217 to more of the like browns like you mentioned. 477 00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:49,387 What could you see happening in 2025 or 2026, 478 00:24:49,754 --> 00:24:52,691 maybe past this trend that's going on right now? 479 00:24:52,691 --> 00:24:55,360 Gosh, you never know. What's a rapidly. 480 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:59,431 But I will say that I definitely think wider and longer, will continue to grow. 481 00:24:59,431 --> 00:25:02,567 And so stay tuned 482 00:25:02,567 --> 00:25:06,238 because, definitely some exciting things are on the horizon for sure. 483 00:25:06,338 --> 00:25:07,239 That's awesome. 484 00:25:07,239 --> 00:25:10,242 Yes, we will be launching, several new products, 485 00:25:10,308 --> 00:25:13,111 this year at our edge convention in December. 486 00:25:13,111 --> 00:25:16,648 And so we will have a look into the future there for sure. 487 00:25:16,882 --> 00:25:17,249 Awesome. 488 00:25:17,249 --> 00:25:19,651 A lot of exciting things happening with Mohawk. 489 00:25:19,651 --> 00:25:20,585 Yes for sure. 490 00:25:20,585 --> 00:25:22,521 Well, thank you so much, Molly, for having me. 491 00:25:22,521 --> 00:25:24,422 I of course much. 492 00:25:24,422 --> 00:25:25,156 No problem. 493 00:25:25,156 --> 00:25:28,026 Thank you so much for your time and thank you for joining us today. 494 00:25:28,026 --> 00:25:29,427 Absolutely. Have a great day. 495 00:25:30,729 --> 00:25:33,465 Thank you for joining us today on the Pro Source podcast. 496 00:25:33,465 --> 00:25:36,668 Please like and subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast. 497 00:25:37,168 --> 00:25:39,371 Also, follow us on social media. 498 00:25:39,371 --> 00:25:42,941 Check out our website at prosource wholesale.com and visit 499 00:25:42,941 --> 00:25:46,978 your local Prosource wholesale showroom for all of your home remodeling needs.