00:00:04:00 - 00:00:26:17 Justin Nabity This is the Doc Nation podcast. We are a movement founded by doctors for doctors dedicated to empowering medical professional to reclaim control over health care decisions and advocating for their fair share of the industry's resources. Please note the views expressed are those of Doc Nation and not necessarily those of our Guest or Reference Health centers. 00:00:26:19 - 00:00:45:18 Reid Lancaster Nice to meet you, Michael. Thank you. Appreciate your time. We used to do, webinars that were about an hour. And so we decided to start by, switch over to podcast to do 15 to 20 minutes. So that's what we'll keep it at. Okay. Really appreciate your time today. And thank you for giving back. 00:00:45:18 - 00:01:09:09 Reid Lancaster And thank you for for seeing a need and filling it. Healthcare is in shambles right now. Yeah. The insurance companies, are our thieves, liars and stealers. And that's the truth. That might sound aggressive, but that's the truth. That's true. And, Michael, you could you could just, you know, ride off into the sunset and not be trying to. 00:01:09:10 - 00:01:19:24 Reid Lancaster What you're doing is giving back. And we just appreciate that. And we're thankful for 15 to 20 minutes on our show today. And so, without further ado, would you mind introducing yourself? 00:01:20:01 - 00:01:42:10 Dr. Michael Gomez Okay. My name is Michael Gomez. I'm the medical director of the, neonatal intensive care unit. Winnie Palmer Hospital for Women and Babies. Part of Orlando Health in Orlando, Florida. I also worked for Pediatrix Medical Group. So we're, women's and children's based pediatric specialty group. Takes care of newborns in intensive care. Other things for the practice. 00:01:42:10 - 00:02:03:07 Dr. Michael Gomez But, what we're talking about today is more my opinion about how things work in healthcare. I know people have lots of strong feelings about private practice, employed physicians, contract physicians like us. A lot of different things. But, my opinions, since I've worked in almost every venue I've been employed, I've, owned my own practice. 00:02:03:09 - 00:02:12:13 Dr. Michael Gomez And I worked at an academic health centers. I do see the differences and understand all of the nuances of, healthcare that are out there. So. 00:02:12:15 - 00:02:31:04 Reid Lancaster Yeah. So that's nice that you come to us. You come to us with a unique view that that almost none of our clients, or followers, have. So you've covered all the bases and, and so everything that you say today is going to be speaking from experience. And that's always appreciated by any listener. Yeah. 00:02:31:06 - 00:02:50:09 Dr. Michael Gomez Yeah. And the experience is hard. You know, the you learn the hard way, to who to trust and who not to trust, whether it's insurance companies or even your employers. Sometimes, or your practice partners in a private practice can also be difficult as well. So there's a number of, different challenges that are out there. 00:02:50:09 - 00:03:14:16 Dr. Michael Gomez But, you know, I, it was interesting. My first, exposure to leadership in medicine was coming right out of fellowship. I was in in Houston, and, we, I was setting up a new program, and the hospital, I think, to get rid of me, said, well, give us a business plan. And I was like, okay, a business plan for the program. 00:03:14:16 - 00:03:28:14 Dr. Michael Gomez And they said, yeah. And I said, well, I thought that's what you did. And they said, yeah, but we want you to give it to us. So I happen to have a sister who's an accountant, and she was setting up a new business at the time. And I asked her, how do you write a business plan? And she knows where you can look it up in books. 00:03:28:14 - 00:03:43:24 Dr. Michael Gomez And she said, but the most succinct finding that I can give you, is actually if you go to the old, you know, remember we used to get all the yellow and white pages delivered to our front door. If you open it up, the Southwestern Bell had a one page description and how to create a business plan. 00:03:44:01 - 00:03:44:11 Justin Nabity Okay. 00:03:44:16 - 00:03:46:04 Dr. Michael Gomez And so 00:03:46:06 - 00:03:49:08 Reid Lancaster What was the name of that that that phone book company? 00:03:49:10 - 00:03:55:05 Dr. Michael Gomez Southwestern Bell. Southwestern Bell was what was one of the old before the divestiture of all the phone companies? 00:03:55:11 - 00:03:55:20 Reid Lancaster Yeah. 00:03:56:01 - 00:04:07:11 Dr. Michael Gomez Southwestern Bell was one of them. You know, there was, the Bell South and, you know, all sorts of different bells that were out there. I think there's were all called the baby bells at the time. And so if you. 00:04:07:11 - 00:04:08:22 Justin Nabity Reid, you're giving away your age. 00:04:08:24 - 00:04:11:11 Dr. Michael Gomez Yeah. 00:04:11:13 - 00:04:23:16 Reid Lancaster That's so cool that the, the phone books were that that like robust and they had a business plan. Leadership page or one pager. I wrote it down because I want to I want to see what it looks like. 00:04:23:19 - 00:04:43:03 Dr. Michael Gomez Yeah. So I I'll see if I can go back to the find it because my, my sister still kept that copy of hers because that's how she set up her trucking business with her, with her husband. But, anyway, so I came back to the hospital with the business plan, and they're like, oh, okay. Well, you know, the I don't think they expected that I would figure that out. 00:04:43:05 - 00:05:02:01 Dr. Michael Gomez I think they said, well, here, let's we don't really see the value in the program, but we'll let you do it will entertain you. And, it was part of my recruitment agreement that I could set this program up. And, so I presented the business plan, and then the next course curve that they throw you is staffing and all this other stuff that you need. 00:05:02:03 - 00:05:20:16 Dr. Michael Gomez And and so we had our first meet, our first planning meeting, and it was really complicated. And I remember sitting there in the room thinking, where do they where did they learn all this stuff from? Where did I mean, this knowledge has to come from somewhere. It didn't just arise out of thin air. And so we started talking about where people got their degrees in their training. 00:05:20:22 - 00:05:48:20 Dr. Michael Gomez I'm a structured learner. I like learning that way, where people can present concepts and I can build on basic concepts and kind of improve my knowledge over time. So eventually got to the point where I realized I had to go back and get a degree in healthcare administration to understand how hospitals work, which was also a big eye opener, because you realize that as physicians, we have so little knowledge about the entire system, we're kind of pushed over into one little corner. 00:05:48:22 - 00:05:59:22 Dr. Michael Gomez And, you know, we're told by hospitals and, you know, any sort of leadership position is you take care of the medicine, we'll take care of the business. Well, that that implies that you trust them to do that. 00:05:59:24 - 00:06:00:14 Reid Lancaster That's right. 00:06:00:18 - 00:06:22:13 Dr. Michael Gomez And you may not, and you learn the hard way, to who to trust and who not to trust. But that that learning process that three years in graduate school really taught me a lot about how administrators think, how hospitals run, and then just the experience of interacting with them. Some I've had great relationships with and others have been horrible, places to work. 00:06:22:13 - 00:06:46:01 Dr. Michael Gomez And so one thing that I realized is if you're really if you're really solid on what you know and what you can, what value you bring to an organization as far as your medical care, you can choose where you want to work. You don't have to be. You don't have to let the system pick you. You pick them and decide, does this program match my values, my principles? 00:06:46:03 - 00:07:04:07 Dr. Michael Gomez Is this a place I can work if I say something, am I, am I treated fairly? If I don't say something, am I still treated fairly? And then how is my work valued in the organization? And what kind of opinion do I have? And if you find out the answer to a lot of that is no and nothing, then it's probably not the right organization. 00:07:04:09 - 00:07:25:19 Dr. Michael Gomez You have to have the guts to be able to pick up your toys and leave. You know, that's that's hard for some people because they're very vested in where they're living. I was fortunate to, you know, have a wife and family that understood that that work satisfaction was an important part of my identity. And so when I said, it's time to pick up and go somewhere else, they supported that. 00:07:25:21 - 00:07:51:10 Dr. Michael Gomez And so, you know, we we kind of moved along until we found the right set of circumstances where you can thrive and sometimes you find 50%, sometimes you find 75, occasionally you hit a home run and find an organization that just says, this is a place that I can really be successful at, and that's where you want to land, and that's where you you bringing that knowledge base and everything really helps, make you successful in that organization. 00:07:51:12 - 00:08:04:24 Reid Lancaster Michael, it's awesome to hear that you and your family and you are such a such a team, because about 65% of our clients are telling their kids, you're not going into health care. You're not, you're not you're not going to become a physician. 00:08:05:01 - 00:08:25:09 Dr. Michael Gomez Well, neither of my kids went into health care. I have two boys. One is, he does linguistics in and, language modeling and Spanish and a bunch of other things traveled all over the world, has a couple of MBAs, struggles. You know, he has to put his work together in pieces, and he kind of lives on his wits. 00:08:25:09 - 00:08:46:20 Dr. Michael Gomez So, very proud of what he's done. It's a tough life to live that way. And the other one was an it became a health care engineer and, works in startups and things. Both have, they an appreciation of what medicine can do. My, my son that's into linguistics is actually teaching me more and nuance Spanish. 00:08:46:20 - 00:09:10:24 Dr. Michael Gomez Right. Currently working on, Spanish language development because my Spanish, even though I come from a Hispanic background, my, family didn't speak a lot of Spanish professionally at home. So, we're working on that, but, you know, all of them have, an appreciation for what medicine can do. But neither one really love the lifestyle. They saw the work, and they see all the effort and the frustrations and things. 00:09:10:24 - 00:09:16:02 Dr. Michael Gomez And, said, I think I'll do something else more in control of my life. 00:09:16:04 - 00:09:27:10 Reid Lancaster That's right. More in control of my life. And that's just the sad part of medicine is that, you know, the highest educated group of people in the country, don't have control of their life. 00:09:27:10 - 00:09:27:17 Dr. Michael Gomez Yeah. 00:09:27:23 - 00:09:41:03 Reid Lancaster It just seems really, really backwards to me. You become you've become such a professional. But the respect level of of providing your work has been taken over by business people. 00:09:41:05 - 00:09:41:10 Dr. Michael Gomez Yes. 00:09:41:16 - 00:09:43:21 Reid Lancaster Tthat's sad. That's really sad. 00:09:43:23 - 00:09:49:13 Justin Nabity Michael, did you give your do you recommend to your kids to get into medicine or to do not really say anything to them? 00:09:49:14 - 00:10:08:20 Dr. Michael Gomez I didn't say anything to them. I have some friends that were very adamant that their kids become physicians, very adamant, but I just let my mind kind of pursue their passions and let them do what they want. My wife, who my wife and I started medical school together, actually, she decided in her third year medical school that it wasn't for her. 00:10:08:22 - 00:10:29:20 Dr. Michael Gomez And, and just, you know, went and did a bunch of other things, a little bit of health care, but a bunch of other things, and then raised two great kids and, and and had to deal with me. But, so, you know, we, we, at least had a common background and understanding of where we were coming from. 00:10:30:09 - 00:10:46:24 Dr. Michael Gomez It's just it's really hard to tell your kids to do something that's that difficult to do unless they're really passionate about it. If I had seen passion from them, if I had, you know, if they wanted to follow me to work, if they wanted to understand what I would have asked them to pursue it. But I didn't really. 00:10:47:01 - 00:10:51:00 Dr. Michael Gomez I saw other things that they like better for me, and that's what I encouraged them to do. 00:10:51:00 - 00:10:53:05 Justin Nabity It's good intuition on your part for your family. 00:10:54:11 - 00:11:22:00 Neil Dougherty Doctor Gomez, you, thank you for being here. You sound happy. Yeah, that's a great thing. I, I know DocNation. We try to help doctors, negotiate, have a voice where they are. DocNation will even help doctors, relocate their families, start practices and things like that. But how many stops did you have to really find that happy place? 00:11:22:02 - 00:11:51:17 Dr. Michael Gomez Well, I, I think I've been happy in a couple of different places. There's other circumstances that sometimes take you away from fairly good jobs. I think this one in particular was more of, somebody recognized that I was a good fit for it. About five years ago, somebody came to me and said, I have a program, and I think you would really do well in, so sometimes people have your best interest in mind, especially if you worked successfully with people before, they remember how they felt working with you. 00:11:51:17 - 00:11:54:15 Dr. Michael Gomez And then they say, well, you should come work with my organization. 00:11:54:17 - 00:11:56:07 Neil Dougherty Was that another doctor? 00:11:56:09 - 00:11:57:01 Dr. Michael Gomez I'm sorry.? 00:11:57:03 - 00:11:58:20 Neil Dougherty Was that another doctor that said that? 00:11:58:20 - 00:12:18:14 Dr. Michael Gomez Yes. That was another physician who actually encouraged me to to to move over like that. But I probably made, I don't know, I my wife says we we changed. I change jobs all the time. That's not quite true. It's about every 5 to 7 years that I change. I think the longest position I've ever stayed in has been 12, and the shortest has been one. 00:12:18:16 - 00:12:37:03 Dr. Michael Gomez And again, it's it's that intuition that I don't fit here, I fit here. I should stay here. A lot of times things are going really well, and then there's an administrative change in your organization, and. And then you realize, no matter how hard I work, I'm not going to be able to to get this direction back where I want to go. 00:12:37:05 - 00:12:54:24 Dr. Michael Gomez And then it's time to step out. And I think having that, having that ability to or the confidence in yourself to be able to to say no and walk away from a job is as hard as anything else that you have to do because, you know, you're you're uprooting your family, you're leaving people who you work well with. 00:12:54:24 - 00:13:19:04 Dr. Michael Gomez In some cases, and you're leaving for very personal reasons that are sometimes hard to express to people. But but you just know it's time to go. So, you know, I think the, the job before this one, I remember the, the person, the person who hired me was not actually my boss when I got there. Something had changed in the organization. 00:13:19:04 - 00:13:35:11 Dr. Michael Gomez I think there were some illnesses involved and some other things. But anyway, the person who liked me and hired me was not the one who I ended up working for. So the one I ended up working for kept telling me, well, I really don't know what to do with you. Write me a job description. Well, right away, the alarm bells go off. 00:13:35:13 - 00:13:37:05 Justin Nabity That's a red flag. 00:13:37:07 - 00:13:59:09 Dr. Michael Gomez Even though after three years we were making some progress. I remember this one email I got and he asked me for, a report. Basically that was kind of, I think he described it as a weather report, kind of. I think what he meant was taking the temperature of the room. But when I realized how far we were moving apart from each other, I said, I. 00:13:59:09 - 00:14:18:17 Dr. Michael Gomez I really thought weather like, like storms and clouds and things like that. So after the meeting, after that, you know, after we met, he said, this is what I was looking for at all. And I said, well, I don't think I understood you. And that was the biggest clue to me because it my, my, annual evaluation was coming up at the same time. 00:14:18:19 - 00:14:35:01 Dr. Michael Gomez And I said, why don't we go ahead and do my annual evaluation right now as well? Because I think it's time for me to leave. And and what he asked me was, well, what are you going to do with yourself? Because you now you I kind of moved into an administrative job and and I said, well, I'm still a good clinical neonatologist. 00:14:35:01 - 00:14:58:08 Dr. Michael Gomez I'm really lucky to have that good, sound clinical ability to go back to a job and do that. So he was a little bit worried that I had stepped out into administration and couldn't go back to clinical practice. I wasn't worried about that at all. But, one, I realized that we were because our thought processes had moved so far apart from each other, this was not the right job for me anymore. 00:14:58:10 - 00:15:28:20 Dr. Michael Gomez And and secondly, that, even if I told him after the evaluation, it was time for me to leave because the evaluation really wasn't that bad. That that I knew I could land on my feet. And so I think as physicians, the reasons that you can land on your feet is because you're a good clinician. I think I spent years trying to understand complex health care systems and finance, and I don't think that I can be taken advantage of in any way without just picking up my stuff and walking away. 00:15:28:22 - 00:15:46:24 Dr. Michael Gomez So, you know, I'm fortunate in that sense that I'm able to do that. I know everybody's not in that position. A lot of people say, I can't leave my families here. My, you know, everything I have is committed to this one place, and this is where I'm going to stay. So they'll they'll take all the grief that comes with the job to stay in a particular place. 00:15:47:01 - 00:15:48:12 Reid Lancaster Yeah. 00:15:48:14 - 00:16:17:18 Justin Nabity So you were quoted in a recent publication about loss of control being a major factor of the problems facing physicians. And you've talked a little bit about administration changes, things that are happening behind the scenes that may or may not have anything to do with you seeing patients. Would you say that's kind of the core area that you find is the driving factor for maybe what you and your colleagues would say is, is not the right environment as it used to be. 00:16:17:18 - 00:16:19:02 Justin Nabity Or can you speak to that a little bit? 00:16:19:07 - 00:16:38:08 Dr. Michael Gomez Yeah. You know, I think as physicians we don't understand anymore what our employers are looking for from us. You know, they talk about so many different things. They talk about profitability, they talk about access to patient care. They talk about high quality patient. But but they never really define what that means, nor how I how can I achieve that? 00:16:38:10 - 00:17:07:10 Dr. Michael Gomez What do you want me to do? Is it more RVUs? Is it more office visits per day? Is it more admissions in the hospital? What what exactly is it? Well, just more. More of what? And and so and you're often, you know, the direction from your administration of, you know, it comes up at this level, but by the time it pushes down through the operational levels of the organization hospital, for example, the administrator that's assigned to you may not have any clue about what what's in between. 00:17:07:14 - 00:17:14:20 Dr. Michael Gomez They just know that their job is to, you know, you had 30,000 RVUs this year, I need 35,000. 00:17:14:22 - 00:17:15:03 Justin Nabity Yeah. 00:17:15:03 - 00:17:36:05 Dr. Michael Gomez And, and so those types of things don't resonate with us. We don't understand what that means. And, it makes it really hard because what the what the top level of the organization's thinking and speaking doesn't match what the middle is speaking and thinking and doesn't match what gets reflected to the physicians to actually have to execute on. 00:17:36:07 - 00:17:38:11 Dr. Michael Gomez Yeah, makes it really hard. 00:17:38:13 - 00:17:45:00 Justin Nabity Well, when they look at you as if you're the profit source, you're the source where they can extract as much profit as possible. 00:17:45:04 - 00:17:45:14 Dr. Michael Gomez Yes. 00:17:45:18 - 00:17:46:18 Justin Nabity They want you to produce. 00:17:46:24 - 00:17:47:09 Dr. Michael Gomez Yes, 00:17:47:15 - 00:18:07:07 Justin Nabity Produce, produce, produce. You are the workhorse that they want to just exploit you as far as they possibly can. Maybe not intentionally trying to hurt you or or other doctors, but like they're trying to squeeze the juice out of a fruit that's been squeezed out. 00:18:07:10 - 00:18:22:08 Justin Nabity There's nothing left like you can't. And that's why DocNation is not just about helping doctors get their voice back. It's also about patients. Like at the end of the day, who is going to benefit the most by doctors being back in control? It's the patient. 00:18:22:10 - 00:18:23:02 Dr. Michael Gomez Right. 00:18:23:04 - 00:18:34:04 Justin Nabity We had another guest on not too long ago, and he's saying, and you probably heard this, it might be just standard education back in the day, but if you talk to your patient long enough, the diagnosis will come off their lips. 00:18:34:04 - 00:18:34:14 Dr. Michael Gomez Yes. 00:18:34:15 - 00:18:36:01 Justin Nabity They'll tell you what the diagnosis is. 00:18:36:07 - 00:18:37:02 Dr. Michael Gomez Yeah. 00:18:37:04 - 00:18:50:01 Justin Nabity There's no time for that anymore. If they want, they gotta ram patients through as fast as possible because ca-ching ca-ching ca-ching... that's not good for patients right. It's not good for doctors. 00:18:50:03 - 00:19:08:10 Dr. Michael Gomez Right. And that's why I think it's really important to understand the environment that you're working in and doesn't match your values and principles. And if it doesn't, then. Yeah, I don't know. To me, you have to be able to pick up and go somewhere that that really aligns with what you're doing. Does the organization motivate me? 00:19:08:10 - 00:19:27:08 Dr. Michael Gomez Do I feel, empowered when I go to work? Am I does my voice matter? All those types of things that are really important and you just lose that over time? It's really easy to get lost in all of that and overwhelmed too, because again, if you don't have the background, if you've never heard this stuff before, it's really hard to understand. 00:19:27:08 - 00:20:01:18 Dr. Michael Gomez And that's again, that's what motivated me to go back to school, 20 years ago, almost to, to pursue, degrees and to really try to understand well, what is what are these words, what are they using these things and, and where did they learn them? It's interesting. I find it fascinating that nurses and, and, hospital employees like lab employees and physical therapists, and they all seem to learn it somewhere along the way, because they're given tasks within the hospital where they're measured and compared to other parts of the hospital. 00:20:01:20 - 00:20:30:01 Dr. Michael Gomez But we never really are. We're always kept in one corner. And I don't know whether it's a deliberate lack of sharing information with us, or it just isn't in the cards to to be shared with us. But it's really important to understand what what you're dealing with when you go into an organization. So yeah, I spend a lot of time doing that, trying to understand what motivates them and can I trust them. 00:20:31:11 - 00:20:41:14 Neil Dougherty I don't see a reason why. A really good reason why you wouldn't want to share this information with the doctors. 00:20:41:16 - 00:21:06:07 Dr. Michael Gomez No, I well, like anything else, I mean, information is power. It really does. If you have all the information, what do you need other people for? And so, it, I think that's one of the big issues is where people use that, that knowledge, they hoard the knowledge a bit in order to protect their position, and it makes them relevant. 00:21:06:09 - 00:21:22:14 Dr. Michael Gomez And, and if physicians don't have that information, then they're relatively irrelevant. And, and you can control them more easily. So I agree with you. I there's not a reason not to control, not to share the information, but it's just, a common thing that I see people do 00:21:22:16 - 00:21:24:24 Dr. Michael Gomez 00:21:25:01 - 00:21:26:02 Justin Nabity Hoarding information 00:21:26:04 - 00:21:27:02 Justin Nabity 00:21:27:04 - 00:21:31:05 Justin Nabity to protect their position. That's interesting. Yeah. 00:21:31:07 - 00:21:47:15 Neil Dougherty It feels it feels like the communication Justin, Should almost be when these when you have these systems that don't meet the values of our physicians, that that should not only be communicated to other physicians, but also patients. 00:21:47:17 - 00:21:49:16 Justin Nabity It's a huge disconnect. 00:21:49:18 - 00:22:11:04 Dr. Michael Gomez Yeah. No, it is a huge disconnect there. And I think that, again, it you you begin to appreciate the organizations that do it well. Because there is a lot of communication. There is a lot of data sharing. Obviously they're not going to put spreadsheets in, you know, things in front of you with tremendous numbers and details. 00:22:11:04 - 00:22:30:23 Dr. Michael Gomez But, but they'll put enough information in front of you to make rational decisions. And I think that's what physicians need more than anything else. But you also have to understand the information as well. So, you know, I've always worked in a group practice, and you do need the collective. That's one thing that physicians, do need to work together. 00:22:31:05 - 00:22:47:22 Dr. Michael Gomez There isn't always that togetherness. I. I keep telling my group, you you of everyone in the organization that you need to love each other. You should love each other first. And they kind of laugh, you know? What do you mean? Love each other? And it's like, well, you don't have to like each other. But from. 00:22:47:22 - 00:22:48:07 Justin Nabity Have each other’s backs. 00:22:48:09 - 00:23:06:11 Dr. Michael Gomez Standpoint, you have to have each other's back. You have to be able to work with each other, understand the strengths and the weaknesses. You know, a team of like 25 physicians, we don't have 25 quarterbacks. We have 1 or 2, right? We have 1 or 2 that lead. We have others that are good blockers. We have others that are good runners. 00:23:06:11 - 00:23:24:11 Dr. Michael Gomez Other you know, everybody's got their role and everybody plays their role well. But if we had 25 quarterbacks we wouldn't be any good. We really want people in the right roles and that's the value of the collective in medicine, especially among physicians, is to understand how to put the right team together as well. 00:23:24:13 - 00:23:26:07 Justin Nabity Have each other's backs. 00:23:26:09 - 00:23:26:14 Dr. Michael Gomez Yeah. 00:23:26:16 - 00:23:32:12 Justin Nabity Collective voice this is why we exist. Why we're here. It's why we're talking. 00:23:32:14 - 00:23:33:00 Dr. Michael Gomez Yes. 00:23:33:00 - 00:23:55:23 Justin Nabity We need to unite the voice. There's. Today's the first day of striking happening by the longshoremen. It's. It's reported 45,000 workers are potentially going to shut down the ports, and they are united. And they're. They want to have their voice heard. 00:23:56:00 - 00:24:21:03 Justin Nabity The doctors voices could be the most powerful voice if it was just brought together. And so we appreciate you coming on with us to share your background, share the wisdom that you have. You've been through a lot of different phases of your career, and I feel like many can can benefit from that. And I think having that, that perspective of having each other’s backs is so key. 00:24:21:03 - 00:24:27:23 Justin Nabity So thanks for jumping on with us and sharing that with us, and we'll look forward to talking more in the future. 00:24:28:00 - 00:24:29:10 Dr. Michael Gomez Okay. My pleasure. Thank you. 00:24:29:16 - 00:24:31:08 Reid Lancaster What a great legacy. Thank you Michael. 00:24:31:14 - 00:24:32:07 Dr. Michael Gomez You're welcome. 00:24:32:09 - 00:24:32:17 Reid Lancaster All right. 00:24:32:21 - 00:24:33:05 Reid Lancaster Bye bye. 00:24:33:05 - 00:24:35:14 Dr. Michael Gomez Have a good day. Bye. 00:24:35:16 - 00:24:52:12 Justin Nabity This has been the Doc Nation podcast. If you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe, rate and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you are listening to us. Your feedback really helps us reach more listeners like you. We'd also love to hear your thoughts and any topics you'd like us to cover in future episodes. 00:24:52:18 - 00:25:00:02 Justin Nabity Don't forget to follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn for updates, behind the scenes content, and to join the conversation. Thanks for listening.