WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.860 Hello, this is Mark Butler and you are listening to a podcast for coaches. 00:00:05.399 --> 00:00:09.100 A while back, I outlined a whole episode about certifications and 00:00:09.100 --> 00:00:11.059 then it got long and too complex. 00:00:11.649 --> 00:00:15.509 And so then I simplified it down as much as I could and it became a podcast about 00:00:15.529 --> 00:00:17.490 coaches selling training to other coaches. 00:00:18.229 --> 00:00:22.284 It's the one whose title has something to do with, How to read a sales page. 00:00:22.294 --> 00:00:23.234 You could go listen to it. 00:00:23.234 --> 00:00:27.225 I think it was pretty good, but in the last week, a listener emailed me and 00:00:27.225 --> 00:00:30.865 said, I would love it if you did an episode on certifications for coaches. 00:00:31.554 --> 00:00:34.504 And I appreciated that email and I think it's a worthwhile topic. 00:00:34.505 --> 00:00:39.705 So, here we are today and I'm giving you my opinions on certifications for coaches. 00:00:41.225 --> 00:00:44.155 And as usual, we should probably start with a story because 00:00:44.155 --> 00:00:46.544 stories make things less boring. 00:00:47.004 --> 00:00:50.924 So if you listened to last week's episode, you know that as I record this, I am 00:00:50.924 --> 00:00:53.124 still wearing a boot on my left foot. 00:00:53.794 --> 00:00:54.324 Good news. 00:00:54.344 --> 00:00:56.134 I'm meeting with a surgeon today. 00:00:56.174 --> 00:00:58.424 I'm hopeful the surgeon is very confident. 00:00:58.889 --> 00:01:00.249 We need confident surgeons. 00:01:00.249 --> 00:01:02.789 I want the surgeon to say, don't worry, Mark, I've got this. 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:03.929 It's all going to be okay. 00:01:04.129 --> 00:01:06.559 You're going to be able to go on walks again soon. 00:01:07.899 --> 00:01:11.729 I'll keep you posted, but I've had an interesting experience with this whole 00:01:12.089 --> 00:01:17.799 foot issue and interacting with different doctors, because many of you as coaches 00:01:17.939 --> 00:01:22.449 will bring some of your insecurities and some of your imposter syndrome to 00:01:22.449 --> 00:01:24.139 the conversation about certification. 00:01:24.149 --> 00:01:24.789 And I get it. 00:01:24.819 --> 00:01:25.979 I don't blame you for it. 00:01:26.744 --> 00:01:30.020 You might think that it's only in the world of coaching, that some 00:01:30.020 --> 00:01:33.030 people are critical of the industry or critical of practitioners 00:01:33.030 --> 00:01:36.300 within the industry because of the certifications they have or don't have. 00:01:36.700 --> 00:01:40.090 You might think that it's only therapists looking at the world of coaching 00:01:40.090 --> 00:01:41.730 and saying, ah, that's all made up. 00:01:43.050 --> 00:01:45.720 There's no adult supervision in that industry and there 00:01:45.720 --> 00:01:47.210 can be a lot of harm there. 00:01:47.530 --> 00:01:51.930 And it's because they lack this formal certification and it's because they 00:01:51.930 --> 00:01:53.710 haven't gone through a licensure process. 00:01:53.775 --> 00:01:57.385 Well, yeah, kind of. 00:01:57.695 --> 00:01:59.245 I think there's something to that. 00:01:59.985 --> 00:02:03.395 I'm not upset with therapists for having some of those concerns. 00:02:03.465 --> 00:02:07.125 In a minute, I'll talk about how I would give those concerns back to those same 00:02:07.524 --> 00:02:09.164 therapists if they have those feelings. 00:02:10.024 --> 00:02:11.255 But let's look at a world. 00:02:11.695 --> 00:02:16.665 The world of medicine, which we all know to be highly regulated where 00:02:16.665 --> 00:02:20.445 people take their certifications and their licensure very seriously, 00:02:20.465 --> 00:02:24.135 and where I, as a consumer of their services, also take their licensure 00:02:24.535 --> 00:02:26.345 and their certification very seriously. 00:02:26.745 --> 00:02:27.734 And yet, 00:02:29.804 --> 00:02:34.125 the licensure and the certification seems to be an insufficient signal. 00:02:36.195 --> 00:02:39.365 To practice medicine legally, at least here in the United States, I'm sure 00:02:39.365 --> 00:02:43.725 elsewhere, you have to have Licenses, you have to have certifications. 00:02:43.725 --> 00:02:45.215 There are hoops you have to have jumped through. 00:02:45.845 --> 00:02:49.905 I, as a consumer of those services might have gone through life thinking that 00:02:49.905 --> 00:02:53.705 by virtue of having completed that, I don't have to wonder or worry about 00:02:53.705 --> 00:02:58.755 the quality of care that a person who's been licensed and certified would give. 00:02:59.760 --> 00:03:03.550 I've probably been guilty of thinking one doctor's like another doctor. 00:03:03.550 --> 00:03:04.810 They all played the same game. 00:03:04.810 --> 00:03:07.700 They all passed the same tests and checked the same boxes. 00:03:07.700 --> 00:03:10.640 They're probably inherently trustworthy as a result. 00:03:11.700 --> 00:03:15.140 Well, it turns out it's not true and not even they think it's true. 00:03:16.540 --> 00:03:22.510 I have a foot injury So I've seen probably three different podiatrists who are 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:25.440 doctors of the foot about my foot injury. 00:03:25.890 --> 00:03:28.800 I think I've gotten great care and advice from a couple of those. 00:03:29.160 --> 00:03:32.720 I think I've gotten not great care and not great advice from at least one of those. 00:03:33.200 --> 00:03:36.000 And then the other day I was having a conversation with my friend who's an 00:03:36.010 --> 00:03:40.770 anesthesiologist and we were talking about my journey with this foot. 00:03:41.625 --> 00:03:44.895 And I was telling him who I had seen already and who I might be seeing again. 00:03:45.245 --> 00:03:47.215 And he got a very concerned look on his face. 00:03:47.485 --> 00:03:51.035 And he said, I'm going to connect you with the husband 00:03:51.045 --> 00:03:52.805 of one of my practice partners. 00:03:53.085 --> 00:03:54.475 He's an orthopedist. 00:03:54.555 --> 00:03:55.665 He's legit. 00:03:56.025 --> 00:04:00.775 He's done X, Y, and Z additional training things. 00:04:02.175 --> 00:04:06.520 And when I've talked to him, he told me, Much of his work is 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:08.490 correcting the work of podiatrists. 00:04:09.910 --> 00:04:14.790 And internally I laughed and I said to myself, see, this is everywhere. 00:04:15.490 --> 00:04:16.960 Everywhere that humans operate. 00:04:17.510 --> 00:04:23.730 You have territory battles, you have tribalism, you have people's declaration 00:04:23.730 --> 00:04:25.930 that my badge is better than your badge. 00:04:27.400 --> 00:04:30.380 And the thing is on a case by case basis, it's true. 00:04:30.669 --> 00:04:33.089 And on a case by case basis, it's not true. 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:35.009 Do I believe my good friend? 00:04:35.029 --> 00:04:36.269 Yes, he's trustworthy. 00:04:36.489 --> 00:04:43.995 When he says that his colleague Does a lot of repair work on podiatrists mistakes? 00:04:44.075 --> 00:04:44.845 Yes, I do. 00:04:45.795 --> 00:04:50.265 Do I also believe that there are amazing podiatrists who would 00:04:50.265 --> 00:04:55.065 give me a higher standard of care than some other orthopedist? 00:04:55.775 --> 00:04:56.714 Yes, I do. 00:04:57.415 --> 00:05:02.365 I believe these things exist on a case by case and a person by person basis. 00:05:02.915 --> 00:05:05.535 Different people choose to check different boxes. 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:10.620 What I care about as the consumer of services is when I interact with the 00:05:10.620 --> 00:05:19.039 surgeon today, I want to have a feeling that he's able to give me my best possible 00:05:19.039 --> 00:05:22.230 chance of success with this injury. 00:05:23.210 --> 00:05:29.609 I will use a bunch of signals to decide that he's trustworthy or not. 00:05:30.699 --> 00:05:32.600 His certifications will be a factor. 00:05:34.020 --> 00:05:35.500 His experience is a factor. 00:05:37.085 --> 00:05:38.635 His demeanor will be a factor. 00:05:39.895 --> 00:05:46.755 I met with a surgeon a couple of weeks ago and he was so unenthusiastic that I 00:05:46.755 --> 00:05:49.855 walked out of that office and I thought, it's not that I don't like that guy. 00:05:50.725 --> 00:05:53.094 And it's not that I think he was giving me poor care. 00:05:53.094 --> 00:05:54.915 He was trying to manage expectations. 00:05:55.364 --> 00:05:58.894 He was trying to tell me the version of the truth that he thought was 00:05:58.894 --> 00:06:04.885 fairest and most accurate, but he communicated such a lack of confidence. 00:06:05.935 --> 00:06:10.495 In my situation that I thought, even if he's right, I don't want to 00:06:10.505 --> 00:06:11.915 have further interaction with him. 00:06:13.475 --> 00:06:18.084 I want to meet with someone who still manages expectations, who still 00:06:18.084 --> 00:06:23.855 sets the right tone for the whole interaction, but who can look me 00:06:23.855 --> 00:06:28.035 in the eye and say, I'm one of your best chances at a good outcome here. 00:06:28.035 --> 00:06:31.765 I'm not the only person who can do it, but I'm totally confident that I give you a 00:06:31.775 --> 00:06:35.060 great, Possibility of a good result here. 00:06:36.540 --> 00:06:37.560 That's what I'm looking for. 00:06:38.080 --> 00:06:42.160 I'm going to use all of these signals, including the endorsement 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.640 of my friend, the anesthesiologist, his, his opinion matters to me. 00:06:45.820 --> 00:06:48.100 If he's endorsing the surgeon, that's important. 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:52.460 I'm using all of these signals to go into this appointment, hopefully today. 00:06:54.969 --> 00:06:58.700 But I will tell you this, if I don't get a good feeling in today's 00:06:58.700 --> 00:07:02.250 appointment, I've already found another surgeon who lives in Boise, Idaho, 00:07:02.250 --> 00:07:03.840 which is a six hour drive from me. 00:07:05.710 --> 00:07:08.260 One of her important trust signals is that I found her by 00:07:08.260 --> 00:07:09.720 searching my condition on YouTube. 00:07:10.190 --> 00:07:12.950 She is a speaker on the topic. 00:07:13.290 --> 00:07:17.430 She gets invited to conferences to speak about my particular issue with my foot. 00:07:18.329 --> 00:07:20.500 She speaks about it enthusiastically. 00:07:20.500 --> 00:07:22.560 She speaks about it with great confidence. 00:07:24.070 --> 00:07:26.160 She's licensed and certified and et cetera. 00:07:26.590 --> 00:07:30.950 But above all, if I don't get a good feeling today here in Salt Lake, I will 00:07:30.950 --> 00:07:34.099 drive myself to Idaho to meet with her 00:07:36.340 --> 00:07:38.650 because what I want is a functioning foot. 00:07:39.300 --> 00:07:41.460 I don't really care how I get it. 00:07:42.479 --> 00:07:46.220 If it means flying across the country, I'm going to fly across the country. 00:07:47.310 --> 00:07:53.930 The licensure is a, necessary, but insufficient signal for 00:07:53.930 --> 00:07:55.519 me as a consumer of services. 00:07:57.030 --> 00:08:03.720 It is exactly this way in the world of coaching, maybe even more so, because 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:05.730 in coaching there is no regulating body. 00:08:07.110 --> 00:08:11.300 People draw the closest comparisons to therapy, I get it, I'm for that. 00:08:11.925 --> 00:08:14.395 You've heard me say on this podcast before I love therapists. 00:08:14.395 --> 00:08:15.215 I love therapy, 00:08:16.545 --> 00:08:18.425 but what matters is trust. 00:08:19.745 --> 00:08:23.975 There are plenty of people who would never meet with a coach because a 00:08:23.995 --> 00:08:25.785 coach is not a licensed therapist. 00:08:25.905 --> 00:08:27.185 I have no problem with that. 00:08:28.055 --> 00:08:32.814 It's more likely that people who buy coaching have some 00:08:32.844 --> 00:08:34.535 other reason to trust coaching. 00:08:34.785 --> 00:08:38.605 Either they are a coach or they have a friend or a family member who's a coach. 00:08:39.035 --> 00:08:43.695 They have a relationship that compensates for the trust deficiency that might 00:08:43.695 --> 00:08:49.514 come from the lack of a license, , from a lack of permission to practice 00:08:49.514 --> 00:08:51.094 that comes from a regulatory body. 00:08:52.224 --> 00:08:53.734 I have no problem with any of this. 00:08:54.209 --> 00:08:55.589 It all works out fine. 00:08:56.699 --> 00:08:59.799 What we find in practice is that there are great coaches 00:08:59.829 --> 00:09:01.179 and there are terrible coaches. 00:09:01.429 --> 00:09:04.739 We find that there are great therapists and there are terrible therapists. 00:09:04.979 --> 00:09:07.019 In my family, we have experienced both. 00:09:08.609 --> 00:09:15.039 A couple of years ago, my wife, Kate, she wanted to go see a coach or a therapist. 00:09:15.579 --> 00:09:17.589 She found a local therapy practice. 00:09:17.839 --> 00:09:19.739 She liked the idea of meeting in person. 00:09:20.349 --> 00:09:22.799 She was paired with a wonderful young therapist. 00:09:23.624 --> 00:09:24.484 He was very young. 00:09:25.144 --> 00:09:28.214 She's maybe 29 or something at the time, 28. 00:09:29.384 --> 00:09:36.704 The rapport that Kate felt with her was exactly what you're looking for in your 00:09:36.704 --> 00:09:38.044 relationship with your practitioner. 00:09:38.604 --> 00:09:42.434 The therapist had some life experiences that, that related to life experiences 00:09:42.434 --> 00:09:43.724 that we're having in our family. 00:09:44.205 --> 00:09:45.365 Which helped the trust. 00:09:46.325 --> 00:09:47.705 She's a fantastic therapist. 00:09:48.375 --> 00:09:51.315 Unfortunately, she then moved out of the country and that relationship ended. 00:09:51.915 --> 00:09:56.714 What we found is that when Kate went on the hunt for another therapist, 00:09:57.875 --> 00:09:59.295 She would come back to me and say 00:10:01.300 --> 00:10:04.240 You're a better therapist than any of the therapists I meet with and 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:05.540 I'm having a hard time trusting them. 00:10:05.560 --> 00:10:06.970 I just, the rapport is not there. 00:10:08.170 --> 00:10:10.420 And I said, yeah, I mean, well, first of all, I don't know if I'm 00:10:10.420 --> 00:10:12.580 a better therapist than they are because I'm not actually a therapist, 00:10:12.590 --> 00:10:13.999 but I understand what you're saying. 00:10:13.999 --> 00:10:17.789 What you're saying is you're struggling to feel the rapport with them that you 00:10:17.789 --> 00:10:23.350 feel with me, given the fact that we have lots of conversations that look a lot 00:10:23.350 --> 00:10:24.930 like coaching and a lot like therapy. 00:10:25.180 --> 00:10:26.530 Kate coaches me, I coach Kate. 00:10:26.530 --> 00:10:28.090 We, we have tools. 00:10:28.365 --> 00:10:29.335 We interact this way. 00:10:29.685 --> 00:10:32.325 And what she's saying is in the people that she was interviewing, 00:10:33.355 --> 00:10:35.735 she wasn't feeling that sense of confidence and rapport. 00:10:36.735 --> 00:10:38.195 So she didn't continue the relationship. 00:10:38.695 --> 00:10:40.015 She's also looked at coaches. 00:10:41.825 --> 00:10:44.575 Sometimes she struggles a little bit in the coaching world because. 00:10:45.455 --> 00:10:49.675 My place in the coaching community makes it so that it's likely that the 00:10:49.675 --> 00:10:53.145 coach she's going to be interviewing knows me and so sometimes she doesn't 00:10:53.155 --> 00:10:59.835 feel quite safe in potentially working with someone who knows both of us, etc. 00:11:00.374 --> 00:11:02.034 It's the rapport and the trust that matter. 00:11:03.164 --> 00:11:05.754 We've even had a relationship with a therapist where it just 00:11:05.794 --> 00:11:07.844 went completely off the rails. 00:11:08.524 --> 00:11:09.504 It was so bizarre. 00:11:09.504 --> 00:11:13.314 I don't need to go into the details, but what I can say is in that 00:11:13.314 --> 00:11:18.224 moment, the official badge from the regulating body did not help. 00:11:19.444 --> 00:11:20.384 It did not help. 00:11:23.174 --> 00:11:28.884 So certifications in some industries like medicine. 00:11:29.299 --> 00:11:35.669 We might call a necessary trust signal, but in every situation, they seem to be an 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:37.949 insufficient trust signal by themselves. 00:11:40.629 --> 00:11:45.409 So then as coaches, how do we think about whether to do more certifications? 00:11:47.459 --> 00:11:49.339 I think one of the things we've got to talk about is why 00:11:49.339 --> 00:11:50.919 certifications are so appealing. 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:55.569 If you grew up in the United States, and I think other parts of the Western 00:11:55.579 --> 00:12:00.659 world, you grew up in a permission culture, you grew up in an authority 00:12:00.659 --> 00:12:05.789 culture, you went to school, they gave you information to learn, they tested 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:10.139 you on that information, and then they gave you a grade based on your ability to 00:12:10.139 --> 00:12:14.239 recall that information or synthesize that information or analyze that information. 00:12:15.114 --> 00:12:19.004 But there was an authority figure whose job it was to tell you that you did 00:12:19.004 --> 00:12:20.614 it right, or that you did it wrong. 00:12:21.104 --> 00:12:25.734 And to certify your competence or your knowledge in that area. 00:12:27.544 --> 00:12:28.524 It's called a grade. 00:12:28.964 --> 00:12:31.774 All of your grades rolled up in what's called a grade point average. 00:12:31.954 --> 00:12:34.914 The grade point average had consequences to your future. 00:12:35.674 --> 00:12:41.884 And I believe it indoctrinated us to believe that before we do something, 00:12:43.064 --> 00:12:46.764 especially something that we find a little bit scary or something where 00:12:46.764 --> 00:12:51.104 we think there's potential for us to do harm to ourselves or to others, 00:12:52.664 --> 00:12:56.364 we need to go get the permission and the certification from the 00:12:56.364 --> 00:12:59.174 authority figure before we start. 00:13:00.834 --> 00:13:05.364 And this for me is something that has truth in it, but is not true. 00:13:06.674 --> 00:13:10.624 In other words, there are good principles in there, but the 00:13:10.624 --> 00:13:12.164 overarching message is false. 00:13:12.984 --> 00:13:17.004 If that overarching message is, you're not allowed to do this until 00:13:17.004 --> 00:13:18.484 someone else tells you it's okay. 00:13:20.804 --> 00:13:21.864 And that's just not the case. 00:13:22.584 --> 00:13:25.375 Now as coaches, just like with therapists,, I think 00:13:25.375 --> 00:13:26.555 we should proceed with care. 00:13:27.614 --> 00:13:32.455 I have had many experiences as a coach where certain topics or certain 00:13:32.455 --> 00:13:37.745 sets of circumstances come to me and I will tell the person, I really 00:13:37.745 --> 00:13:40.485 think you're going to be better in the hands of another practitioner. 00:13:42.305 --> 00:13:44.655 That practitioner might be a coach that I refer them to. 00:13:44.995 --> 00:13:46.825 It might be a therapist that I refer them to. 00:13:47.575 --> 00:13:52.555 If there seems to be something clinical or diagnosable, if this seems like 00:13:52.555 --> 00:13:58.275 something that a psychologist, a psychiatrist, or maybe even a, an MD 00:13:58.415 --> 00:14:00.445 should be involved in, then all the more. 00:14:00.445 --> 00:14:03.524 So I'm going to say, I am either qualified or not. 00:14:04.365 --> 00:14:09.145 Nor certified because here, I think it matters to address this issue with you. 00:14:10.195 --> 00:14:11.725 I think that's good ethics. 00:14:12.425 --> 00:14:16.085 I think those ethics apply equally to therapists as to coaches. 00:14:16.785 --> 00:14:20.990 And even though therapists will likely have had to go through classes, And 00:14:20.990 --> 00:14:25.450 examinations that reinforce that sense in them, that sense that there are times when 00:14:25.450 --> 00:14:27.480 we need to refer this person elsewhere 00:14:29.560 --> 00:14:36.070 in practice, we have no idea whether they will actually act on those 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:38.280 instructions, act based on that ethic. 00:14:40.490 --> 00:14:44.820 The person who is certified does not operate under the close 00:14:44.850 --> 00:14:48.910 supervision of the governing body. 00:14:49.560 --> 00:14:52.500 In their licensure phase, , in the period that we might call 00:14:52.510 --> 00:14:54.820 practicum, they're being supervised. 00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:59.000 After they get out of that supervisory period, they may choose 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:00.740 to engage in further supervision. 00:15:01.420 --> 00:15:07.370 On a longer timescale, a person who is prone to bad behavior will behave badly. 00:15:08.690 --> 00:15:12.350 A person who is prone to ethical behavior will behave ethically. 00:15:13.620 --> 00:15:19.260 Their license or lack of license won't be the factor that we think it should be. 00:15:19.260 --> 00:15:21.799 To be clear, I'm not anti licensure. 00:15:22.459 --> 00:15:26.059 There's a very real possibility that in the next two, three, four years, 00:15:26.189 --> 00:15:27.989 I will become a licensed therapist. 00:15:29.880 --> 00:15:35.390 I will jump through the hoops that I just got finished telling you are insufficient 00:15:35.420 --> 00:15:39.050 trust signals and insufficient guarantees of quality of care. 00:15:39.509 --> 00:15:40.350 I still might do it. 00:15:41.739 --> 00:15:45.900 It makes sense to me that if a person intends to be in the coaching world, 00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:49.729 if they intend to have a career as a coach that would extend to 10 years 00:15:49.749 --> 00:15:55.430 and 20 years and 30 years, I cannot think of a reason you wouldn't pursue 00:15:55.430 --> 00:16:01.539 licensure for the simple reason that it opens some doors and closes none. 00:16:02.449 --> 00:16:05.499 If my title becomes Mark Butler, licensed marriage and family 00:16:05.499 --> 00:16:08.339 therapist, certain doors open to me. 00:16:10.394 --> 00:16:14.734 Where people who say, I won't work with someone who is not a therapist, 00:16:15.025 --> 00:16:16.265 now they're available to me. 00:16:17.615 --> 00:16:21.804 And still, everyone who doesn't care about the license is still available to me. 00:16:22.245 --> 00:16:23.965 So it opens a door, it closes none. 00:16:25.295 --> 00:16:26.904 Also, in a very practical way, 00:16:29.430 --> 00:16:34.570 The word coach requires explanation in a way that the word therapist doesn't 00:16:34.830 --> 00:16:39.860 in our lexicon, in our culture, I have this happen all the time, if 00:16:39.860 --> 00:16:41.829 people say, what are you up to with your, with your work right now? 00:16:41.829 --> 00:16:45.249 Because my friends and neighbors know me to be a person who does many 00:16:45.249 --> 00:16:46.899 things and changes them quite often. 00:16:47.439 --> 00:16:48.819 What are you up to with work right now, Mark? 00:16:49.009 --> 00:16:52.099 Well, I've got the accounting business still really enjoying that. 00:16:52.149 --> 00:16:54.399 And I'm doing a lot of coaching, coaching. 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:54.989 What does that mean? 00:16:57.369 --> 00:17:00.559 I have conversations with people about their thoughts and their 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:04.899 feelings and their behaviors and their relationships and the title that the 00:17:04.899 --> 00:17:07.339 world uses for that is therapist. 00:17:08.299 --> 00:17:14.039 I once had a coaching client refer to me to a friend in my presence. 00:17:14.259 --> 00:17:15.479 This is my therapist. 00:17:16.404 --> 00:17:18.234 I did not correct him because who cares 00:17:19.674 --> 00:17:23.704 he, in that moment used the shorthand that he knew would 00:17:23.704 --> 00:17:26.954 require the least explanation in his conversation with his friend, 00:17:27.804 --> 00:17:29.314 because coach means a lot of things. 00:17:29.364 --> 00:17:31.734 A coach is a person who works with children playing soccer. 00:17:32.664 --> 00:17:34.314 A coach is an executive coach. 00:17:34.764 --> 00:17:35.984 A coach is a marriage coach. 00:17:35.984 --> 00:17:36.884 A coach is a health coach. 00:17:37.744 --> 00:17:39.094 A coach is a life coach. 00:17:41.104 --> 00:17:45.224 But whether people actually understand what therapist means, they've heard the 00:17:45.224 --> 00:17:47.944 word enough times that they don't seek further explanation when they hear it. 00:17:47.974 --> 00:17:48.744 Oh, you're a therapist. 00:17:48.764 --> 00:17:49.054 Okay. 00:17:50.469 --> 00:17:55.469 That alone might be reason to pursue licensure in the long run. 00:17:56.349 --> 00:17:57.719 So when people say, what are you up to? 00:17:57.719 --> 00:18:00.009 You can say, Oh, practicing as a therapist. 00:18:02.009 --> 00:18:03.249 So it opens some doors. 00:18:03.379 --> 00:18:04.389 It closes none. 00:18:07.089 --> 00:18:09.289 The person who emailed me probably wasn't even wanting to talk about this. 00:18:09.299 --> 00:18:11.469 They were probably wanting to talk about the fact that every coach 00:18:11.469 --> 00:18:13.759 under the sun offers a certification. 00:18:14.069 --> 00:18:15.659 I have what's called Butler's law. 00:18:15.689 --> 00:18:16.599 I'm claiming it. 00:18:16.989 --> 00:18:19.149 I'm not going to trademark it, but I'm claiming it. 00:18:19.159 --> 00:18:21.759 Butler's law states that all coaches. 00:18:21.999 --> 00:18:25.509 We'll eventually offer two things, a mastermind and a certification. 00:18:27.429 --> 00:18:28.229 Don't fight it. 00:18:28.619 --> 00:18:29.689 Don't be mad about it. 00:18:29.769 --> 00:18:30.439 It's happening. 00:18:30.869 --> 00:18:35.529 The day will come where in the post roll ad on this podcast, I 00:18:35.529 --> 00:18:38.869 say, Oh, everyone, I'm so excited to announce my new certification. 00:18:41.479 --> 00:18:42.939 I'm launching a mastermind. 00:18:43.709 --> 00:18:44.439 Let's not fight it. 00:18:44.894 --> 00:18:46.344 It's coming, you know, it's coming. 00:18:46.344 --> 00:18:47.114 I know it's coming. 00:18:47.184 --> 00:18:48.384 You're going to do the same thing. 00:18:48.434 --> 00:18:49.094 Let's move on. 00:18:49.574 --> 00:18:50.334 It's Butler's law. 00:18:50.604 --> 00:18:51.074 Quote me 00:18:53.544 --> 00:18:57.804 Here are the reasons not to do a certification in my opinion. 00:19:00.274 --> 00:19:06.934 And there are really just two, one is FOMO where you say, I don't want to 00:19:06.944 --> 00:19:10.554 miss out on that certification because I have friends and peers who are doing 00:19:10.554 --> 00:19:12.014 it and I don't want to fall behind. 00:19:12.394 --> 00:19:13.634 You're not falling behind. 00:19:14.684 --> 00:19:16.844 They're not going to come out of that certification. 00:19:17.369 --> 00:19:18.609 More qualified than you. 00:19:20.369 --> 00:19:23.889 They're not going to come out of that certification more marketable than you. 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:25.879 You're not falling behind. 00:19:26.249 --> 00:19:27.179 Go talk to people. 00:19:27.269 --> 00:19:28.319 Go work with clients. 00:19:30.169 --> 00:19:31.159 Your skills will improve. 00:19:31.159 --> 00:19:32.519 Your relationships will improve. 00:19:32.729 --> 00:19:33.639 Your network will grow. 00:19:33.639 --> 00:19:34.339 You will thrive. 00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:35.419 It's going to be great. 00:19:36.229 --> 00:19:37.249 You're not falling behind. 00:19:37.250 --> 00:19:42.509 The second reason not to do a certification is imposter syndrome. 00:19:44.209 --> 00:19:45.379 You observe some people. 00:19:46.299 --> 00:19:46.879 No judgment. 00:19:47.204 --> 00:19:50.214 Who've done three and five and six coaching certifications. 00:19:52.094 --> 00:19:54.894 There is such a thing as a person who just absolutely adores that experience. 00:19:54.894 --> 00:19:55.954 And I say power to you. 00:19:56.474 --> 00:19:59.734 If you've got the money and the time and the enthusiasm have a 00:19:59.734 --> 00:20:02.114 blast, I really am thrilled for you. 00:20:02.874 --> 00:20:06.344 If you're a person though, who finishes one certification , and 00:20:06.344 --> 00:20:08.084 due to some sense of internal lack. 00:20:09.784 --> 00:20:12.144 Some fear that you're not good enough, that you're not qualified, 00:20:12.144 --> 00:20:13.224 that you can't do a good job. 00:20:13.634 --> 00:20:16.204 You go on the hunt for the next certification, hoping that will 00:20:16.204 --> 00:20:17.624 solve the feeling that you have. 00:20:18.544 --> 00:20:20.634 Well, you're a coach, you know, that's not how it works. 00:20:22.855 --> 00:20:27.925 So you can absolutely bury yourself in debt, trying to solve your 00:20:27.925 --> 00:20:31.585 imposter syndrome, or you can acknowledge it as imposter syndrome. 00:20:31.855 --> 00:20:35.895 You can hire a coach, you can work on that, and you can save yourself all 00:20:35.895 --> 00:20:39.035 those thousands and tens of thousands of dollars in certifications, which aren't 00:20:39.035 --> 00:20:40.455 going to make you feel confident anyway. 00:20:42.255 --> 00:20:45.664 So FOMO and imposter syndrome are terrible reasons to do FOMO and imposter syndrome. 00:20:46.775 --> 00:20:48.265 They won't solve those problems. 00:20:49.955 --> 00:20:55.005 I also think the certifications themselves, the badges, the pieces of 00:20:55.005 --> 00:20:58.155 paper, which are probably not pieces of paper, but you know what I mean? 00:20:58.925 --> 00:21:02.655 They're not going to move the needle in your marketing directly. 00:21:03.685 --> 00:21:05.885 They're not a strong trust signal. 00:21:06.455 --> 00:21:10.960 Usually Except to other people who have the same badge. 00:21:13.110 --> 00:21:16.670 But even then it's not a strong differentiator. 00:21:19.520 --> 00:21:23.150 Kate and I have a good friend who now is an office manager for a therapy practice. 00:21:23.650 --> 00:21:25.340 This friend knows the work I do. 00:21:25.340 --> 00:21:28.820 She knows Kate, she knows we're into all manner of mental health services. 00:21:30.380 --> 00:21:32.430 And she says, what do you think of working at the practice? 00:21:33.835 --> 00:21:36.625 And she said, well, there's four or five, six therapists. 00:21:36.855 --> 00:21:38.945 There's one that I would send everyone to. 00:21:38.975 --> 00:21:39.735 He's amazing. 00:21:40.835 --> 00:21:43.385 There are one or two who I wouldn't send anyone to. 00:21:44.975 --> 00:21:47.425 She gave us the name of the one she would send everyone to. 00:21:47.445 --> 00:21:50.675 And because I think about these things, I went and Googled him. 00:21:52.135 --> 00:21:54.325 Where did he get his education? 00:21:55.095 --> 00:22:00.985 He got his education at a now defunct, what I would call diploma mill. 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:07.300 A for profit university, the master's degree probably was cheap. 00:22:07.300 --> 00:22:09.100 It was probably relatively easy. 00:22:09.410 --> 00:22:10.530 He checked the box. 00:22:10.530 --> 00:22:14.660 He went into practice and apparently he's doing amazing work. 00:22:15.820 --> 00:22:23.180 I can assure you he would never put that school's badge on his website. 00:22:23.910 --> 00:22:26.040 It would, it would be a counter signal. 00:22:28.620 --> 00:22:31.780 But the signal that matters is that the woman who runs his office 00:22:31.900 --> 00:22:33.880 says to her friends, he's amazing. 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:35.370 I would send a family member to him. 00:22:35.390 --> 00:22:36.470 I would send friends to him. 00:22:37.510 --> 00:22:39.400 So the badge doesn't really matter. 00:22:41.660 --> 00:22:47.099 And unfortunately, especially in the coaching world,, if you attach your 00:22:47.100 --> 00:22:52.160 credibility to the credibility of the certifying person, company, whatever, 00:22:52.785 --> 00:22:57.745 Then if they go down from a brand and a trust perspective, you go down with them. 00:22:59.265 --> 00:23:00.775 I've never had a badge on my website. 00:23:00.835 --> 00:23:02.595 I don't really believe in badges on websites. 00:23:02.605 --> 00:23:03.225 That's me. 00:23:04.325 --> 00:23:08.385 What I believe in is the trust that grows through relationships. 00:23:10.295 --> 00:23:15.845 So FOMO and imposter syndrome are not reasons to do certifications. 00:23:16.125 --> 00:23:19.655 Badges are an extension of FOMO and imposter syndrome. 00:23:20.335 --> 00:23:23.175 I understand that the badge means something to you because you paid 00:23:23.175 --> 00:23:26.815 a lot of money for it and you worked hard, maybe for the badge. 00:23:28.415 --> 00:23:29.915 So the badge means something to you. 00:23:30.435 --> 00:23:31.575 Please believe me. 00:23:31.715 --> 00:23:35.195 It means almost nothing to the person who observes it. 00:23:36.375 --> 00:23:38.995 And in some cases it makes them trust you less. 00:23:41.050 --> 00:23:46.560 What will always increase their trust in you will be the recommendation of their 00:23:46.560 --> 00:23:51.990 trusted advisor, friend, family member, other practitioner, the badge itself, meh. 00:23:53.350 --> 00:23:55.100 There are reasons to do certifications. 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:58.970 They're almost entirely experiential. 00:24:00.230 --> 00:24:06.830 If the experience of the certification is enriching and challenging, Great. 00:24:07.180 --> 00:24:08.780 That's why it's worthwhile. 00:24:09.620 --> 00:24:13.020 Also, if the certification puts you into a new network 00:24:15.120 --> 00:24:20.890 and that network becomes a relationship farm for you, and you become part 00:24:20.890 --> 00:24:24.240 of other people's relationship farm, that network is powerful. 00:24:25.800 --> 00:24:27.590 And that could be a reason to do a certification. 00:24:28.270 --> 00:24:31.370 I was talking with a very good friend who employs hundreds of people. 00:24:31.460 --> 00:24:34.400 The other day, we were talking about a certification called a 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:35.860 master's in, business administration. 00:24:37.525 --> 00:24:39.845 And I said, what do you think is the value of an MBA? 00:24:40.445 --> 00:24:41.355 He said, network. 00:24:42.325 --> 00:24:43.215 And I said, what else? 00:24:43.565 --> 00:24:44.305 He said, nothing. 00:24:46.385 --> 00:24:48.165 There's no value in it beyond the network. 00:24:48.715 --> 00:24:49.605 It's the network. 00:24:51.595 --> 00:24:53.195 You go through your MBA with people. 00:24:54.155 --> 00:24:54.905 They're intelligent. 00:24:54.905 --> 00:24:55.535 They're ambitious. 00:24:55.535 --> 00:24:56.125 They're driven. 00:24:56.145 --> 00:24:58.005 They go out into the world and they build their network. 00:24:58.015 --> 00:24:59.715 You go out into the world and build your network. 00:25:00.005 --> 00:25:02.635 You share networks in the future, job opportunities, business 00:25:02.635 --> 00:25:03.765 opportunities come through it. 00:25:03.775 --> 00:25:04.405 It's beautiful. 00:25:04.835 --> 00:25:06.105 It's the network that matters. 00:25:06.625 --> 00:25:08.495 I did a certification in 2018. 00:25:09.915 --> 00:25:12.365 I enjoyed the certification experience very much. 00:25:12.365 --> 00:25:13.265 It was at the life coach school. 00:25:14.150 --> 00:25:16.800 The certification experience has changed a lot since then. 00:25:16.800 --> 00:25:19.830 It's no longer one that I would be enthusiastic about sending people to, 00:25:21.010 --> 00:25:22.610 but what mattered more was the network. 00:25:22.620 --> 00:25:24.960 I have very close friends from that certification. 00:25:25.620 --> 00:25:27.620 I've had many client relationships. 00:25:27.650 --> 00:25:31.520 If you look purely at ROI, the money I spent on that certification has 00:25:31.520 --> 00:25:35.920 come back to me many times over as the relationships formed there 00:25:37.790 --> 00:25:40.200 led to client relationships later. 00:25:41.290 --> 00:25:44.240 I think there's some knowledge to be had in certifications, but as I've said 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:47.600 in other episodes, knowledge has never been cheaper in the history of humanity. 00:25:48.220 --> 00:25:56.110 So information and knowledge are the weakest good reason to do a certification 00:25:56.180 --> 00:26:03.740 unless again, the experience is so strong that you absorb and you internalize and 00:26:03.740 --> 00:26:07.490 you're able to implement the knowledge more quickly and efficiently because 00:26:07.490 --> 00:26:08.730 of the certification experience. 00:26:08.810 --> 00:26:09.580 I trust that. 00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:11.100 I trust that completely. 00:26:12.260 --> 00:26:16.580 But the information itself, if you find yourself saying, I want to join 00:26:16.580 --> 00:26:24.690 that certification so that I can learn things, learn better mean experiment with 00:26:24.730 --> 00:26:31.610 apply challenge, et cetera, because if learn just means become aware of, then 00:26:31.610 --> 00:26:34.280 it's not worth the thousands of dollars you're going to spend on a certification. 00:26:34.660 --> 00:26:36.440 I want to run a certification. 00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:39.600 You will see me in the next couple of years, maybe. 00:26:40.180 --> 00:26:41.380 Launch a certification. 00:26:42.620 --> 00:26:47.560 I probably won't call it a certification, but it will have that intent. 00:26:49.990 --> 00:26:55.820 I will not launch that until I'm confident that the experience is so rich and 00:26:55.820 --> 00:26:59.600 important and valuable that a person should pay me those thousands of dollars. 00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:01.490 The information itself. 00:27:01.550 --> 00:27:04.930 Once I put all the information together, I will very likely make 00:27:04.930 --> 00:27:06.550 it freely available on a website. 00:27:07.650 --> 00:27:09.000 I'll say, here's all the information. 00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:11.070 If you want to consume it, by all means, have a blast. 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:14.790 If you'd like to take that information and implement it. 00:27:15.125 --> 00:27:21.995 In a challenging environment, sign up here because information wants to be free. 00:27:23.445 --> 00:27:25.595 Experience wants to be expensive. 00:27:25.725 --> 00:27:27.895 Implementation wants to be expensive. 00:27:28.525 --> 00:27:29.795 Information wants to be free. 00:27:31.475 --> 00:27:33.465 I think that's what I have to say about certifications. 00:27:33.505 --> 00:27:40.085 If it offers you a rich experience, if it enhances and enriches your network, if 00:27:40.085 --> 00:27:44.765 you just want to do it because it sounds fun, I think these are all great reasons. 00:27:45.735 --> 00:27:47.545 From a marketing perspective. 00:27:48.040 --> 00:27:51.770 From a credibility perspective, from a quality of service and 00:27:51.770 --> 00:27:55.020 care perspective, I don't know. 00:27:55.950 --> 00:27:58.550 I don't, I don't know that the certifications I see in the 00:27:58.550 --> 00:28:03.510 world are the most efficient ways to achieve those things. 00:28:04.790 --> 00:28:07.170 So who knows? 00:28:07.190 --> 00:28:09.460 Maybe I'll wake up tomorrow morning and say, no, you got that wrong. 00:28:09.810 --> 00:28:11.990 And then you'll hear from me again on this topic next week. 00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:14.710 But I have thought about this a lot. 00:28:15.130 --> 00:28:16.690 I feel pretty good about these points. 00:28:17.460 --> 00:28:19.330 If you disagree strongly, please email me. 00:28:19.390 --> 00:28:20.330 I promise I'll read it. 00:28:20.360 --> 00:28:24.930 There's very low chance I'll reply, but I am listening and I appreciate 00:28:24.940 --> 00:28:26.160 other people's perspectives. 00:28:27.700 --> 00:28:29.510 And with that, I'll talk to you next time.