WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.049 --> 00:00:00.679 Mario: Alright. 00:00:00.919 --> 00:00:01.460 How's it going? 00:00:01.700 --> 00:00:02.420 Alan: Hey, how's it going? 00:00:02.870 --> 00:00:03.349 I'm good. 00:00:04.189 --> 00:00:04.520 Mario: Good. 00:00:04.819 --> 00:00:05.149 Good. 00:00:05.569 --> 00:00:06.319 Alan: How's things over there. 00:00:06.700 --> 00:00:06.950 Okay. 00:00:07.700 --> 00:00:08.120 Mario: yeah. 00:00:08.180 --> 00:00:08.510 Yeah. 00:00:08.540 --> 00:00:11.060 It's just wrapping up my work day and trying 00:00:11.210 --> 00:00:12.080 Alan: getting started on mine. 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:15.470 It's still, I never understand what's going on with the time zones. 00:00:15.530 --> 00:00:20.960 It's like, I've been doing it for, I dunno, like 12, 13 years. 00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:24.470 I've been dealing with multiple timezones and I swear I'll never get used to 00:00:24.600 --> 00:00:25.080 Mario: Yeah, 00:00:25.190 --> 00:00:28.010 Alan: people are online and they either answer me or they don't and 00:00:28.220 --> 00:00:29.360 they'll get back to me when they do 00:00:30.200 --> 00:00:30.680 Mario: yeah. 00:00:30.680 --> 00:00:31.040 Right. 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:31.670 Alan: it's. 00:00:31.700 --> 00:00:35.330 I mean, I kind of like ever embraced the asynchronous, working 00:00:35.330 --> 00:00:37.430 to a, an extreme extent, I guess. 00:00:39.230 --> 00:00:39.950 Mario: Yeah. 00:00:40.220 --> 00:00:43.360 Alan: like my the previous company, I did a lot of rework remote work for 00:00:43.394 --> 00:00:46.527 they're based in the most people were in the U S but there was some in Europe. 00:00:46.550 --> 00:00:47.900 And I would occasionally. 00:00:49.040 --> 00:00:51.530 Come over to Japan for like, you know, a month or two. 00:00:51.890 --> 00:00:55.068 And I swear one of the, you know, I always try and give them a 00:00:55.068 --> 00:00:57.108 heads up that like, oh, I'm going to be on a different time zone. 00:00:57.108 --> 00:01:00.948 But I started one of the times people are messaging me and I'm like, oh, I like, 00:01:01.368 --> 00:01:02.538 I'll get back to you in the morning. 00:01:02.598 --> 00:01:03.228 They're like, hold on. 00:01:03.228 --> 00:01:04.338 What, where the hell are you? 00:01:04.818 --> 00:01:06.018 I'm like, I'm in Japan. 00:01:06.348 --> 00:01:08.328 And they're like, okay. 00:01:08.428 --> 00:01:09.108 I was not aware. 00:01:09.948 --> 00:01:11.148 It's like, okay. 00:01:11.208 --> 00:01:14.568 Yeah, we can just, you know, that's, that's the beauty of remote and 00:01:14.568 --> 00:01:16.008 asynchronous flexible working. 00:01:16.008 --> 00:01:16.248 Right. 00:01:16.598 --> 00:01:16.898 Mario: Yup. 00:01:16.958 --> 00:01:18.398 It can be a pain, but 00:01:18.418 --> 00:01:19.092 Alan: Oh, I know. 00:01:19.182 --> 00:01:22.482 I noticed a new feature or I don't know if that's intentional or not, 00:01:22.482 --> 00:01:24.402 but it says recording audio only. 00:01:24.559 --> 00:01:25.459 Mario: Yes. 00:01:25.459 --> 00:01:30.289 new thing that I added a new label that lets you know, whether you're 00:01:30.289 --> 00:01:34.789 recording just audio or audio and video because video recording is optional. 00:01:34.789 --> 00:01:35.599 So, 00:01:35.674 --> 00:01:35.884 Alan: Yeah. 00:01:36.004 --> 00:01:41.104 And it's also both storage and storage heavy and I guess bandwidth heavy as well. 00:01:41.104 --> 00:01:42.364 If you're recording everything, 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:46.409 Mario: exactly, that's one of the reasons why, I introduced that switch 00:01:46.409 --> 00:01:49.514 so that video recording can be optional. 00:01:49.532 --> 00:01:52.772 That way, if you don't really need to capture video, then why, you 00:01:52.772 --> 00:01:54.332 know, why use up resources and 00:01:54.607 --> 00:01:54.877 Alan: right. 00:01:55.247 --> 00:01:56.437 Like, again. 00:01:56.437 --> 00:02:00.346 This kind of comes back to our discussion last last time about storage costs, right? 00:02:00.886 --> 00:02:01.906 Video isn't cheap. 00:02:02.551 --> 00:02:06.383 Mario: yeah, And not to mention, you know, just putting more burden on the 00:02:06.383 --> 00:02:08.183 whole process, you know, capturing 00:02:08.398 --> 00:02:12.028 Alan: got to upload it and you've got to like capture it, upload it and process it. 00:02:12.028 --> 00:02:12.268 Right. 00:02:12.353 --> 00:02:12.893 Mario: yeah. 00:02:12.893 --> 00:02:13.973 Do all that stuff. 00:02:13.973 --> 00:02:17.903 And if, if you don't need it, then why, why bother some, a lot of podcasters 00:02:17.903 --> 00:02:19.463 don't are not interested in video. 00:02:19.463 --> 00:02:21.143 They, they just want to record audio. 00:02:21.143 --> 00:02:21.653 So. 00:02:21.868 --> 00:02:25.133 Alan: I think from what I've this is, I guess, somewhat anecdotal, 00:02:25.133 --> 00:02:26.423 both from what I've seen. 00:02:26.483 --> 00:02:29.365 And I had a discussion last week with somebody about 00:02:29.365 --> 00:02:30.870 doing some like podcast stuff. 00:02:31.230 --> 00:02:36.630 And I think there's this idea, especially around like corporate podcasts or 00:02:36.660 --> 00:02:41.340 like ones that are more, I don't want to say professional, but dumb 00:02:41.340 --> 00:02:43.290 by businesses instead of by people. 00:02:43.352 --> 00:02:47.452 I think this idea of being able to repurpose you know, stuff as like 00:02:47.632 --> 00:02:52.172 YouTube clips or you know, like it's a tweet with some video, things like that. 00:02:52.172 --> 00:02:56.522 I think that seems stronger in that for those kinds of creators. 00:02:56.552 --> 00:02:59.612 Whereas I guess just straight forward podcasters are like, yeah. 00:02:59.612 --> 00:03:00.002 I don't care. 00:03:00.592 --> 00:03:01.042 Mario: Yeah. 00:03:01.612 --> 00:03:02.062 Yeah, 00:03:02.592 --> 00:03:03.942 Alan: And plus it's, I mean, it's nice. 00:03:04.542 --> 00:03:07.492 It makes the recording process easier when you can see each other. 00:03:07.492 --> 00:03:10.838 Just cause, you know, it's easier to communicate when you 00:03:10.838 --> 00:03:12.479 can see somebody, but yeah. 00:03:12.509 --> 00:03:13.649 For the actual end result. 00:03:13.679 --> 00:03:13.859 Yeah. 00:03:15.019 --> 00:03:16.909 Mario: Yeah, yeah. 00:03:16.909 --> 00:03:19.275 So I guess I'll share my update. 00:03:19.387 --> 00:03:23.597 Since we're talking about this stuff So this week I've I'm supposed to 00:03:23.597 --> 00:03:28.148 be doing some marketing related stuff, but I haven't, because I've 00:03:28.148 --> 00:03:33.424 been trying to squash some bugs that have come up, some people using the 00:03:33.424 --> 00:03:35.674 product have reported some issues. 00:03:35.674 --> 00:03:38.783 a couple of them were kind of major because it kept 00:03:38.783 --> 00:03:40.473 them from using the product. 00:03:40.541 --> 00:03:41.241 Alan: Kind of major 00:03:41.706 --> 00:03:42.006 Mario: yeah. 00:03:42.156 --> 00:03:46.266 so I kind of got concerned about that because I hadn't seen that before. 00:03:46.266 --> 00:03:50.649 And Luckily, one of them, at least it turned out to be an easy fix. 00:03:50.668 --> 00:03:54.778 And it had to do with cameras capturing really high resolution, 00:03:54.778 --> 00:03:56.488 like, you know, 4k or, 00:03:56.638 --> 00:03:57.148 Alan: Oh, Right. 00:03:57.208 --> 00:03:57.508 Yeah. 00:03:57.748 --> 00:04:01.438 Mario: which generates a lot of data, just an incredible amount of data. 00:04:01.438 --> 00:04:06.628 And I've found that Fusioncast wasn't handling that much data properly. 00:04:06.628 --> 00:04:10.449 So it was breaking, you know, basically after a few minutes. 00:04:10.476 --> 00:04:14.608 Well the first person who reported it, it was breaking up for a few seconds into 00:04:14.608 --> 00:04:17.348 recording and it was not working at all. 00:04:17.488 --> 00:04:18.358 Alan: I guess that's something. 00:04:18.358 --> 00:04:18.538 Yeah. 00:04:18.538 --> 00:04:23.588 You got to consider is like for, casual podcasters like us. 00:04:23.618 --> 00:04:23.948 Yeah. 00:04:23.948 --> 00:04:28.688 You're just using the, in computer, like web camera, which is probably low 00:04:28.688 --> 00:04:32.598 bandwidth kind of, it was obviously crappy quality, but yeah, if there's 00:04:32.598 --> 00:04:37.088 semi pro or, or they know what they're doing, they're likely to have a big 00:04:37.118 --> 00:04:39.638 4k SLR sat behind the computer, right. 00:04:40.043 --> 00:04:40.553 Mario: Yeah. 00:04:40.553 --> 00:04:43.221 Some people have a pretty advanced setup. 00:04:43.221 --> 00:04:47.203 And and, and that's why, I guess it hadn't come up before because most people 00:04:47.203 --> 00:04:52.394 are using just regular cameras and not super advanced stuff like that, but Yeah. 00:04:52.394 --> 00:04:54.134 I was able to fix that. 00:04:54.134 --> 00:04:56.204 Luckily it wasn't too bad. 00:04:56.204 --> 00:04:58.693 I mean it took a couple of days of debugging and, 00:04:59.115 --> 00:05:02.448 Alan: Can you basically ask for a smaller version Of the video. 00:05:02.748 --> 00:05:03.438 How do you deal with it? 00:05:03.613 --> 00:05:04.093 Mario: Yeah. 00:05:04.093 --> 00:05:10.175 So, so basically I would like to allow or provide for capturing 4k video. 00:05:10.175 --> 00:05:14.678 But at this point it's not, you know, it's beyond the scope of what Fusioncast 00:05:14.928 --> 00:05:15.498 Alan: seriously. 00:05:15.678 --> 00:05:15.968 Yeah. 00:05:15.968 --> 00:05:16.158 Yeah. 00:05:16.158 --> 00:05:16.428 Yeah. 00:05:16.458 --> 00:05:19.668 I mean, he renamed his scope at first, at least anyway. 00:05:19.818 --> 00:05:20.868 Mario: yeah. 00:05:20.868 --> 00:05:21.168 Yeah. 00:05:21.168 --> 00:05:25.203 So it technically could handle it, but the problem is you really need 00:05:25.297 --> 00:05:29.547 first of all, you can, I guess you can add a, let's say you add an 00:05:29.547 --> 00:05:32.197 external 4k camera to your computer. 00:05:32.197 --> 00:05:35.797 So just because the camera is 4k doesn't necessarily mean 00:05:35.797 --> 00:05:37.237 your computer can handle it. 00:05:37.357 --> 00:05:37.717 Right? 00:05:37.747 --> 00:05:41.149 Cause if you don't have a powerful enough computer with a really good 00:05:41.149 --> 00:05:45.299 network connection, then it'll lag and it'll, become a bottleneck And it 00:05:45.299 --> 00:05:47.279 becomes a problem for Fusioncast to 00:05:47.419 --> 00:05:49.059 Alan: things get out of sync and stuff as well. 00:05:49.130 --> 00:05:54.547 Mario: things get out of, sync So technically it could handle it given 00:05:54.547 --> 00:05:59.145 that it's a good enough computer with a good enough network connection, but, you 00:05:59.145 --> 00:06:00.555 know, I don't have control over that. 00:06:00.555 --> 00:06:05.655 So it's really hard to handle, at least for me, you know, solo developer 00:06:06.050 --> 00:06:08.240 Alan: again, a way out of scope for this 00:06:08.258 --> 00:06:09.412 Mario: Yeah. 00:06:09.412 --> 00:06:10.072 exactly. 00:06:10.072 --> 00:06:13.856 It's it's way out of scope because everyone has different kinds of setups 00:06:13.856 --> 00:06:18.725 and even for myself, I have a 4k camera, but it's an external camera. 00:06:18.755 --> 00:06:21.035 My laptop is kind of old now. 00:06:21.035 --> 00:06:22.895 So it, kind of handles it. 00:06:22.907 --> 00:06:23.867 But for. 00:06:24.317 --> 00:06:28.805 Uploading and, you know, continuously uploading the stream with my wifi 00:06:28.835 --> 00:06:31.885 connection, which is, not the greatest in this part of the house. 00:06:31.930 --> 00:06:33.940 You know, it, has some, some issues. 00:06:33.970 --> 00:06:37.070 So what I, what I'm doing is I'm dropping the resolution. 00:06:37.151 --> 00:06:41.831 Even if it's a 4k camera, it'll drop it to full HD, which is, 00:06:41.921 --> 00:06:43.331 you know, it's still really Good. 00:06:43.331 --> 00:06:45.221 quality, but it's, you know, 00:06:45.556 --> 00:06:46.366 Alan: It's manageable. 00:06:46.511 --> 00:06:46.721 Mario: it. 00:06:46.781 --> 00:06:46.991 Yeah. 00:06:46.991 --> 00:06:47.351 It's more 00:06:47.446 --> 00:06:49.996 Alan: I mean, it's a fraction of the data bandwidth, right? 00:06:50.381 --> 00:06:50.831 Mario: Yeah. 00:06:50.831 --> 00:06:51.761 It's, it's crazy. 00:06:51.761 --> 00:06:57.161 The, the amount of data that 4k generates it's a huge jump from full HD to 00:06:57.966 --> 00:07:02.856 Alan: I mean, I guess maybe to do with my age as well, but I really find 00:07:02.856 --> 00:07:04.296 it difficult to see the difference. 00:07:04.901 --> 00:07:05.261 Mario: Right. 00:07:06.311 --> 00:07:08.184 It's, it's very unnoticeable, 00:07:08.359 --> 00:07:09.289 Alan: It really is. 00:07:09.349 --> 00:07:13.669 I mean, again, unless I'm, you know, pixel peeping on I'm right up to it, I really 00:07:13.669 --> 00:07:15.259 find it difficult to see the difference. 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:17.749 I mean, I mean, there's certain content which you, you might 00:07:17.749 --> 00:07:18.979 kind of go, oh, that looks sharp. 00:07:19.039 --> 00:07:22.789 But for general stuff, I mean really like, no, 00:07:23.159 --> 00:07:23.489 Mario: Yeah. 00:07:23.599 --> 00:07:25.169 And yeah, exactly. 00:07:25.169 --> 00:07:29.138 And and the other thing is a lot of places that you upload, 00:07:29.138 --> 00:07:31.028 these videos that you may capture 00:07:31.078 --> 00:07:32.778 Alan: Compress the hell out of the room anyway, right? 00:07:33.048 --> 00:07:33.318 Mario: Yeah. 00:07:33.318 --> 00:07:34.818 They're going to compress it anyways. 00:07:34.818 --> 00:07:38.058 So especially When we're talking about the web, you know 00:07:38.191 --> 00:07:39.601 it's going to get compressed. 00:07:40.081 --> 00:07:40.591 Yeah, 00:07:40.591 --> 00:07:46.116 Alan: YouTube is like, yeah, that's, it's got better, but it's still not great. 00:07:46.846 --> 00:07:48.196 Mario: yeah, yeah. 00:07:48.366 --> 00:07:52.716 Alan: the YouTube, you know, postage stamp kind of like tiny first flash clips. 00:07:53.186 --> 00:07:54.026 Mario: A little videos. 00:07:54.056 --> 00:07:54.476 yeah, 00:07:54.756 --> 00:07:55.986 Alan: it's come on a little bit since then. 00:07:56.631 --> 00:07:57.171 Mario: Yeah. 00:07:57.171 --> 00:07:58.611 So that's the way I'm handling it. 00:07:58.611 --> 00:08:01.461 dropping The resolution to full HD. 00:08:01.582 --> 00:08:05.404 Basically the way it, the way it handles any video now is it 00:08:05.413 --> 00:08:07.411 attempts to set it at full HD. 00:08:07.411 --> 00:08:10.711 And if the camera can handle it and it'll, do that. 00:08:10.801 --> 00:08:15.121 And if it doesn't, then it'll drop it to the next best available resolution 00:08:15.121 --> 00:08:17.371 that the current camera can handle. 00:08:17.421 --> 00:08:23.423 But then another, issue that was reported had to do with interruption of recording 00:08:23.441 --> 00:08:27.302 like sudden interruption of recording like for example, someone changing 00:08:27.302 --> 00:08:31.142 their wifi connection in the middle of recording or, the connection just 00:08:31.142 --> 00:08:33.032 dropping, you know, for whatever reason. 00:08:33.032 --> 00:08:37.832 Someone reported having an issue with that where they couldn't get back to recording 00:08:37.832 --> 00:08:42.602 after something like that happened where the, the network of the guest dropped. 00:08:43.082 --> 00:08:46.726 So that one has become a little more challenging to fix. 00:08:46.726 --> 00:08:51.441 Just because dealing with sudden interruption of recording is, a big 00:08:51.441 --> 00:08:54.171 deal in the Fusioncast environment 00:08:54.171 --> 00:08:54.841 Alan: system, right? 00:08:54.841 --> 00:08:55.081 Yeah. 00:08:55.081 --> 00:08:58.861 I mean, it relies on data being there to upload and getting 00:08:58.861 --> 00:09:01.441 acknowledgements and everything can then suddenly everything stops. 00:09:01.441 --> 00:09:02.341 It's like, whoa. 00:09:02.681 --> 00:09:03.101 Mario: Yeah. 00:09:03.131 --> 00:09:03.821 exactly. 00:09:03.821 --> 00:09:04.331 And, and. 00:09:06.306 --> 00:09:10.606 If you keep in mind that it's continuously uploading, and buffering data and 00:09:10.606 --> 00:09:12.506 dealing with a lot of moving parts. 00:09:12.647 --> 00:09:16.157 So all of a sudden stopping like that, where the network has 00:09:16.157 --> 00:09:17.807 gone, it's like a freight train. 00:09:17.807 --> 00:09:18.887 That's full speed ahead. 00:09:18.887 --> 00:09:22.127 And, and, you know, all of a sudden it just has to come to a stop. 00:09:22.127 --> 00:09:25.878 and what do you do with all that energy that's, being pushed and all of a 00:09:25.878 --> 00:09:27.708 sudden it doesn't have anywhere to go. 00:09:27.708 --> 00:09:28.128 Right. 00:09:28.573 --> 00:09:32.303 you know, all this data is flowing, it's going, and it's a lot of moving 00:09:32.303 --> 00:09:35.993 parts are happening and all of a sudden, bam, you know, network. 00:09:36.623 --> 00:09:36.863 Alan: Yeah. 00:09:36.923 --> 00:09:39.863 That's it's I mean, it basically just kills everything, right? 00:09:39.933 --> 00:09:40.283 Yeah. 00:09:40.283 --> 00:09:43.133 You're, there's no way for you to go with that. 00:09:43.913 --> 00:09:44.933 Mario: yeah, exactly. 00:09:44.933 --> 00:09:46.703 But now if you think about. 00:09:46.762 --> 00:09:50.651 Let's say there's a session going on where there's two or three people. 00:09:50.651 --> 00:09:55.031 participating in one of them has a problem and their network breaks. 00:09:55.031 --> 00:09:58.121 They're out of the, session they're out of the picture at that point, but 00:09:58.121 --> 00:10:02.441 everybody else can continue recording everybody else is still in the session. 00:10:02.441 --> 00:10:06.221 So if you think it has to handle that scenario where, things have to 00:10:06.221 --> 00:10:10.671 continue for the ones that can, but the one that that was dropped it has 00:10:10.671 --> 00:10:12.411 to deal with that as well and bring 00:10:12.471 --> 00:10:12.981 Alan: good point. 00:10:13.431 --> 00:10:17.151 Mario: you know, bring them back into the session in a graceful way. 00:10:17.151 --> 00:10:21.711 And what I found is that Fusioncast wasn't handling that gracefully before. 00:10:21.758 --> 00:10:24.018 Right, now I'm in the middle of, improving that. 00:10:24.018 --> 00:10:26.647 But Basically, there was not much guidance. 00:10:26.677 --> 00:10:28.117 It was just, it dropped. 00:10:28.117 --> 00:10:33.467 So the user had to figure out what to do, how to come back and rejoin the session. 00:10:33.467 --> 00:10:38.354 and even if they were able to do that I guess there were some issues where getting 00:10:38.354 --> 00:10:42.751 them back into the session where everybody else is already they're still recording. 00:10:42.751 --> 00:10:42.991 right. 00:10:42.991 --> 00:10:47.905 So they have to come back in and pick that up and, and automatically start recording. 00:10:47.905 --> 00:10:48.445 So, 00:10:49.245 --> 00:10:49.665 Alan: tricky. 00:10:50.185 --> 00:10:51.595 Mario: yeah, it's kinda tricky. 00:10:51.595 --> 00:10:55.278 So so I'm doing some work to improve that and how that whole 00:10:55.278 --> 00:10:57.118 thing is handled more gracefully. 00:10:57.388 --> 00:10:59.428 Alan: You think you can manage the coming back into it? 00:10:59.518 --> 00:11:01.648 It's the, it's the coming rejoining. 00:11:01.678 --> 00:11:06.243 That sounds like the the nightmare, but in there, I mean, dropping one of the streams 00:11:06.273 --> 00:11:10.003 and truncating that fail seems doable. 00:11:10.003 --> 00:11:15.654 But trying to pick up an extra stream where it, that sounds not easy. 00:11:16.074 --> 00:11:17.424 Mario: yeah, exactly. 00:11:17.454 --> 00:11:19.974 Alan: mean, is that enough to not deal with that? 00:11:20.504 --> 00:11:24.024 Is that something that you, you, you think you could just like 00:11:24.069 --> 00:11:28.842 Mario: thankfully, because I had this auto recording feature already kind of 00:11:28.962 --> 00:11:33.505 in place like the auto recording when you joined I kind of tapped into that 00:11:33.505 --> 00:11:37.915 functionality to, you know, help get that participant back into the session 00:11:37.915 --> 00:11:39.505 and start recording automatically. 00:11:39.505 --> 00:11:41.365 But before that can happen. 00:11:41.894 --> 00:11:44.864 it seemed like I needed to add a little more guidance. 00:11:45.168 --> 00:11:48.460 a screen that comes up when they lose connection to the network 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:51.281 lets them know, rather than saying that the network connection is 00:11:51.281 --> 00:11:53.542 gone just by, showing a, an alert. 00:11:53.577 --> 00:11:58.827 I basically take them to a completely different screen that just deals 00:11:58.827 --> 00:12:02.397 with that instead of keeping them in the studio because at that point, 00:12:02.397 --> 00:12:05.857 it's pointless to stay in the studio because they're not, they're really. 00:12:06.102 --> 00:12:08.082 Alan: you're not, you're not part of that session at all. 00:12:08.557 --> 00:12:13.105 Mario: Exactly so I take them to a different screen, completely that guides 00:12:13.105 --> 00:12:14.665 them and tells them what's going on. 00:12:15.055 --> 00:12:18.955 And it waits for the network connection to be reestablished. 00:12:19.345 --> 00:12:22.015 And once it's reestablished, then they can see, Okay. 00:12:22.015 --> 00:12:22.915 it's back. 00:12:23.215 --> 00:12:27.041 And now I have this button to request to join again. 00:12:27.041 --> 00:12:27.401 right. 00:12:27.401 --> 00:12:32.981 So there's a little more visual cues of what's going on and more guidance. 00:12:32.981 --> 00:12:36.041 And when they click on that button, then they're taken back 00:12:36.041 --> 00:12:41.321 into the, the waiting room and you know, back to the first step as, 00:12:41.561 --> 00:12:42.491 Alan: So, so does that 00:12:42.491 --> 00:12:43.401 Mario: to join the session. 00:12:43.761 --> 00:12:47.331 Alan: their recording effectively, you end up with just an extra recording, 00:12:47.331 --> 00:12:51.471 which happens to start not at the beginning, but like wherever they rejoin. 00:12:51.501 --> 00:12:53.312 So it's up to the editor to deal with that. 00:12:53.342 --> 00:12:54.032 Not your problem. 00:12:54.062 --> 00:12:54.332 Right. 00:12:54.602 --> 00:12:59.192 But at least it lets you recover in some graceful, as graceful as possible way. 00:12:59.252 --> 00:12:59.462 Right. 00:12:59.472 --> 00:12:59.952 Mario: Yes. 00:13:00.012 --> 00:13:00.582 Exactly. 00:13:01.032 --> 00:13:01.332 yeah. 00:13:01.362 --> 00:13:01.872 So, 00:13:01.982 --> 00:13:02.462 Alan: pull it off. 00:13:03.592 --> 00:13:03.772 Mario: yeah. 00:13:04.612 --> 00:13:04.882 Yeah. 00:13:04.882 --> 00:13:05.152 So 00:13:06.637 --> 00:13:07.417 Alan: I have confidence in you. 00:13:07.417 --> 00:13:07.747 Don't worry. 00:13:09.667 --> 00:13:13.507 Cause especially like, I'm just thinking of the scenarios that would be useful. 00:13:13.507 --> 00:13:16.927 And, and, you know, especially if there's three of you doing some kind of 00:13:16.927 --> 00:13:20.557 recording, you know, you can deal with one person falling off and then them 00:13:20.557 --> 00:13:24.667 rejoining and just it, you might be able to, you know, as if you're interviewing 00:13:24.667 --> 00:13:27.768 someone else, you might be able to pull that off better than everybody 00:13:27.768 --> 00:13:29.238 just getting kicked out or something. 00:13:29.238 --> 00:13:29.478 Right. 00:13:29.570 --> 00:13:32.300 Yeah, if you can pull it off in that way, then that'd be, that'd be Nice. 00:13:32.655 --> 00:13:33.015 Mario: Yeah. 00:13:33.015 --> 00:13:35.055 And that's the way it's shaping up to be. 00:13:35.055 --> 00:13:38.778 I'm still working on, that stuff, but it's looking good. 00:13:38.828 --> 00:13:42.731 But there are still some, loose ends that I still need to tie down and 00:13:42.731 --> 00:13:46.690 In the process of working on that, I discovered a few little tangentially 00:13:46.690 --> 00:13:50.800 related bugs little things that werent' working the way they were supposed to. 00:13:50.800 --> 00:13:53.110 And, so I'm cleaning that up as well as I go. 00:13:53.980 --> 00:13:58.300 Alan: So, how has your, you said these reports were reported by users as well. 00:13:58.300 --> 00:14:02.070 So have you added any, any more to it or is this still your current news 00:14:02.082 --> 00:14:05.736 Mario: I added I think a couple of people since we last spoke 00:14:05.745 --> 00:14:09.234 Unfortunately I haven't been able to do marketing stuff that 00:14:09.234 --> 00:14:12.955 I was supposed to do this week, but yeah, that's the way it goes. 00:14:13.045 --> 00:14:13.405 This. 00:14:13.785 --> 00:14:14.145 Alan: it is. 00:14:14.175 --> 00:14:14.385 Yeah. 00:14:15.175 --> 00:14:19.821 Mario: Yeah, this is higher priority at this point because I don't want 00:14:19.821 --> 00:14:23.690 issues where user is not able to use the product, you know, that's really bad. 00:14:24.165 --> 00:14:24.465 Alan: Yeah. 00:14:24.765 --> 00:14:31.635 That's I mean, I, I I'm not going to give you a hard time about, I feel 00:14:31.635 --> 00:14:35.085 like I should, I feel like it's my responsibility to say no, that's, that's 00:14:35.085 --> 00:14:41.745 a post launch fix, but I also know the frustration when you can see that. 00:14:41.775 --> 00:14:45.645 I mean, so I had, you know, a few of these with, with DotPlan that like, you 00:14:45.645 --> 00:14:49.635 know, I'm like, I can't release with this unless, you know, does it, I know 00:14:49.645 --> 00:14:51.555 there's a bug under these circumstances. 00:14:51.555 --> 00:14:53.515 I know this doesn't deal with this condition. 00:14:53.576 --> 00:14:57.770 And then literally nobody has come up against this at all. 00:14:58.100 --> 00:15:02.313 And yeah, but I fixed it, but I know I probably shouldn't 00:15:02.313 --> 00:15:04.833 have it's I could have left it. 00:15:04.893 --> 00:15:11.863 And so I know the, the The feeling of being compelled to like, prioritize this. 00:15:11.863 --> 00:15:14.602 So I can't really give you a hard time, even though I feel like, 00:15:16.852 --> 00:15:20.692 because I, here the same thing, but I mean, I I'm, so yeah. 00:15:20.692 --> 00:15:22.702 So what's been helpful with that plan. 00:15:22.762 --> 00:15:27.435 So the the big thing here is so that the, the customer, which I affectively signed 00:15:27.435 --> 00:15:29.263 up like the, this Japanese customer. 00:15:29.503 --> 00:15:34.644 So they've got a kind of it's not as, not even as a soft deadline, so I've 00:15:34.644 --> 00:15:37.104 agreed to add a feature for them. 00:15:37.464 --> 00:15:42.984 And it's one of those things that I knew I should have done when I built it. 00:15:43.104 --> 00:15:48.324 But I did just, I actually did convince myself that I'm going to need that. 00:15:48.324 --> 00:15:49.944 That's not important. 00:15:49.944 --> 00:15:50.784 Well, it turns out it is. 00:15:52.524 --> 00:15:56.844 And that's the, so, because we've added this time card thing in, 00:15:56.844 --> 00:16:01.404 you know, like check-ins checkouts and that, that all my current. 00:16:03.669 --> 00:16:06.939 Plan, especially with regards to selling to Japanese. 00:16:07.269 --> 00:16:12.219 So I can't remember if we talked about this, but I spoken to a few, again, a 00:16:12.219 --> 00:16:17.229 few kind of mentors and people locally in Japan about selling it in Japan. 00:16:17.319 --> 00:16:25.064 So the big push back or the big feedback, which all of these, you know, both VCs 00:16:25.064 --> 00:16:31.394 and mentors has given me is that like eats as it's not impossible, but don't try 00:16:31.394 --> 00:16:37.534 selling to bigger customers now is just really not worth your time going that in. 00:16:37.534 --> 00:16:41.594 If, if things work out, then they'll know about you anyway, but 00:16:41.744 --> 00:16:43.614 really just don't don't bother. 00:16:43.614 --> 00:16:47.525 They're going to give you so much hassle and requests and 00:16:47.825 --> 00:16:49.145 there's there's this definite. 00:16:49.155 --> 00:16:50.535 Mario: Compliance and all 00:16:50.825 --> 00:16:51.275 Alan: Yeah. 00:16:51.275 --> 00:16:52.595 So one of the more. 00:16:54.065 --> 00:16:54.665 The things. 00:16:54.665 --> 00:16:57.675 I see a lot with regards to bigger customers. 00:16:57.675 --> 00:17:02.555 And I saw this quite a lot at the startup that I was out here previously, is that 00:17:03.455 --> 00:17:09.815 Japanese bigger customers don't see that there's a lot of partnerships happen here. 00:17:09.815 --> 00:17:13.175 Like, you know, small, a bigger customer with, you know, like 00:17:13.325 --> 00:17:17.915 enterprise type customer with a lot of smaller customers that they sell to. 00:17:17.915 --> 00:17:20.435 They sell all those existing products and they want to add 00:17:20.435 --> 00:17:21.785 you as one of their products. 00:17:21.818 --> 00:17:24.098 So they offer this, oh, we do a partnership. 00:17:24.128 --> 00:17:27.179 You know, there's some kind of you know, revenue share and, you know, we 00:17:27.179 --> 00:17:30.719 will basically sell your application as you know, a long with ours and. 00:17:30.899 --> 00:17:31.559 It sounds great. 00:17:31.829 --> 00:17:36.609 But there seems to be this, and again, speaking to other companies this 00:17:36.609 --> 00:17:42.219 seems happen a lot, is that, that means they think they own your roadmap 00:17:43.439 --> 00:17:43.739 Mario: Yeah, 00:17:44.349 --> 00:17:47.159 Alan: it doesn't become your product becomes what they decided 00:17:47.159 --> 00:17:49.083 they, your product is going to be. 00:17:49.083 --> 00:17:52.368 And I don't know how common this partnership thing is outside of Japan. 00:17:52.378 --> 00:17:56.158 It just seems incredibly common here for smaller startups startups in general, 00:17:56.188 --> 00:18:01.018 that they seem to have this, this path to market of becoming, or getting a partner. 00:18:01.018 --> 00:18:05.068 That's a bigger company that can effectively resell for you. 00:18:05.082 --> 00:18:11.617 But that means you effectively become beholden to every single urgent request. 00:18:11.617 --> 00:18:12.277 And there, you know 00:18:12.862 --> 00:18:13.132 Mario: Yeah. 00:18:13.132 --> 00:18:15.262 and multiply that times. 00:18:15.262 --> 00:18:20.752 However, many of those types of customers you have, and each one is pulling you 00:18:20.752 --> 00:18:24.212 in a different direction because they would think the product should do this. 00:18:24.212 --> 00:18:26.762 And the other one thinks the product should do 00:18:26.897 --> 00:18:27.077 Alan: Right. 00:18:27.107 --> 00:18:29.807 It would completely irrespective of what your product is. 00:18:29.837 --> 00:18:34.907 They just have come up with a, an idea of what it should be, and they'll sell 00:18:34.907 --> 00:18:38.147 that and then tell you that, well, it's got to do this by next week because 00:18:38.147 --> 00:18:41.927 we've sold this and it's not even, you know, within your company or you 00:18:41.927 --> 00:18:43.187 don't even know who's being sold to. 00:18:43.187 --> 00:18:46.157 So it's, it's less than optimal. 00:18:46.157 --> 00:18:50.597 So the big feedback is here is sell to startups. 00:18:50.597 --> 00:18:51.947 I mean, there's this huge push. 00:18:52.003 --> 00:18:55.141 I can't remember if I mentioned this last time, there's a huge push here in Japan 00:18:55.141 --> 00:18:59.908 for the government, trying to encourage graduates our younger people to, to start 00:18:59.908 --> 00:19:03.658 their own companies because you know, Japan is way behind in this regard, as far 00:19:03.658 --> 00:19:09.118 as younger people being entrepreneurial and starting software companies. 00:19:09.121 --> 00:19:15.224 So the big feedback here is like sell to them that, that you understand them. 00:19:15.254 --> 00:19:18.134 You know, I kind of are on the same wavelength anyway. 00:19:18.168 --> 00:19:19.218 They have got no problem. 00:19:20.178 --> 00:19:23.887 Putting in a credit card and paying, you know, $50 for something. 00:19:23.950 --> 00:19:26.470 Whereas again, trying to get a big company to pay anything is 00:19:26.470 --> 00:19:30.040 like, well, there's a process and there's a department that will, 00:19:30.545 --> 00:19:30.905 Mario: Yeah. 00:19:30.905 --> 00:19:31.335 Yeah. 00:19:31.450 --> 00:19:35.290 Alan: so the big thing is just sell to small startups. 00:19:35.290 --> 00:19:38.380 And again, that you understand what they're trying to do. 00:19:38.380 --> 00:19:40.390 You understand their problems, you can communicate with them. 00:19:40.660 --> 00:19:45.460 They're more likely to understand English as well, because again, 00:19:45.490 --> 00:19:49.300 university students or graduates who are starting a company there'll be 00:19:49.300 --> 00:19:51.100 more exposed and be better at English. 00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:55.118 Anyway, whereas a bigger company is like less likely to have some 00:19:55.118 --> 00:19:58.557 English knowledge, which just helps me communicate outside of the 00:19:58.557 --> 00:19:59.997 Japanese route, which I'm also taking. 00:20:00.027 --> 00:20:03.586 So so along those lines is like, okay, the big thing here is 00:20:03.586 --> 00:20:06.976 that for compliance reasons, you have to keep time cards, right? 00:20:07.726 --> 00:20:08.146 Mario: right? 00:20:08.221 --> 00:20:10.961 Alan: For everybody, unless you're a director level. 00:20:11.050 --> 00:20:14.789 I think there's a limit of 10 million yen a year, which is like a hundred K dollars. 00:20:14.836 --> 00:20:19.156 If you're below that you have to keep timecards of when you 00:20:19.156 --> 00:20:20.446 start work, when you stop work. 00:20:20.461 --> 00:20:25.728 Supposedly too, the reason being is to stop overwork that it's debatable whether 00:20:25.728 --> 00:20:30.018 that has whether it works, but that's the theory behind it anyway, because 00:20:30.133 --> 00:20:31.183 Mario: that's the reasoning behind it. 00:20:31.218 --> 00:20:33.858 Alan: yes, I mean, overwork is a massive problem here and you know, 00:20:33.858 --> 00:20:36.678 there's been a number of deaths through, you know, people doing like 00:20:37.848 --> 00:20:39.588 a hundred hour weeks and things for 00:20:39.648 --> 00:20:40.678 like months at a time. 00:20:40.678 --> 00:20:44.881 And so like trying to keep companies in check is, is a big. 00:20:44.881 --> 00:20:48.871 So even if a company doesn't, they should be doing and they probably know 00:20:48.871 --> 00:20:52.471 that they should be doing so if we can make that easy and part of their 00:20:52.651 --> 00:20:54.661 normal communication and it's a win. 00:20:54.661 --> 00:21:00.677 So that's one of the the core messages that I'm going to try to communicate 00:21:00.677 --> 00:21:05.217 with the sales process for selling to Japanese companies is like simply, 00:21:05.217 --> 00:21:08.727 you know, a very simple way of keeping track of your, your working hours, 00:21:08.757 --> 00:21:10.287 you know, for compliance reasons. 00:21:10.354 --> 00:21:14.294 As well as the, the more the core idea of, you know, being a, you 00:21:14.294 --> 00:21:18.028 know, communication and empathy, and being able to share your day as well. 00:21:18.164 --> 00:21:21.644 So try to mix those two together, you know, give them as a, there's a good 00:21:21.644 --> 00:21:26.804 reason why you should be doing it for, you know, logistical and compliance reasons. 00:21:26.804 --> 00:21:29.114 And then there's the added benefit of this as well. 00:21:29.201 --> 00:21:31.704 So we had time codes and the. 00:21:32.683 --> 00:21:37.423 It's the easiest thing to do when viewing timecards is show them by month, right? 00:21:38.443 --> 00:21:42.853 Because all I have to do is put, show them current month, then you go forwards 00:21:42.853 --> 00:21:43.993 and back you can select a month. 00:21:44.353 --> 00:21:46.865 Well, that's not, of course not how companies work is it? 00:21:46.934 --> 00:21:51.944 Japanese companies tend to pay around the 20th to the 25th. 00:21:51.944 --> 00:21:55.074 25th, 26th is the start of the next month. 00:21:55.074 --> 00:21:57.935 All your bills tend to go out on the 25th or 26th. 00:21:57.955 --> 00:21:59.294 It is generally around there. 00:21:59.294 --> 00:22:03.614 So people get paid between the 20th and 25th, depending on the company. 00:22:04.184 --> 00:22:08.307 And that's when they expect time cards to be recorded from. 00:22:08.307 --> 00:22:12.597 So your payslip is calculated from around the 20th to the 19th ish. 00:22:12.655 --> 00:22:15.685 So of course they're like, yeah, well we need it from the 00:22:15.685 --> 00:22:17.275 20th to the 19th every month. 00:22:17.305 --> 00:22:18.955 And it's like, of course you do. 00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:22.840 So I kinda like, it's fine. 00:22:22.840 --> 00:22:25.180 We were just doing this with Excel, you know, we just opened 00:22:25.180 --> 00:22:28.240 the previous month and we cut and we paste and yeah, it's fine. 00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:28.750 We can do it. 00:22:28.750 --> 00:22:34.000 And I'm like, I, I can't let you just do that every time you do it. 00:22:34.030 --> 00:22:36.904 It's like a grain of sand in your shoe. 00:22:36.904 --> 00:22:37.174 Right. 00:22:37.204 --> 00:22:40.354 It it's every single time they do this, they're going to 00:22:40.354 --> 00:22:41.824 be like, oh, bloody DotPlan. 00:22:42.034 --> 00:22:42.334 Right. 00:22:43.024 --> 00:22:44.004 And so it's like this. 00:22:44.049 --> 00:22:44.499 Mario: yeah. 00:22:44.942 --> 00:22:48.128 Alan: Reasonably easy thing for me to change to improve upon. 00:22:48.195 --> 00:22:51.494 And it just, you know, it gives that, well, you know, I'm listening to the, 00:22:51.840 --> 00:22:56.010 the needs of the customers and, you know, it's just, it's bugging me that they have 00:22:56.010 --> 00:22:57.930 to work around this every single month. 00:22:57.930 --> 00:22:58.180 Right. 00:22:58.180 --> 00:23:00.420 So I'm like, okay, I've got to, I've got to do this. 00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:05.400 I've just got to have a time date range for viewing time codes. 00:23:05.624 --> 00:23:08.916 And and it's one of those, just add a date range, right. 00:23:10.956 --> 00:23:11.586 It's amazing. 00:23:11.586 --> 00:23:13.173 How many small. 00:23:13.998 --> 00:23:16.008 Niggly things that come up with this. 00:23:16.008 --> 00:23:16.188 Right. 00:23:16.188 --> 00:23:17.238 So the obvious one is okay. 00:23:17.238 --> 00:23:20.000 So I I just started to date picker things. 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.583 Again, date pickers are stupidly a pain in the bum that they're not like, 00:23:24.763 --> 00:23:28.963 how is this not completely and utterly solved in, on a web browser now? 00:23:28.963 --> 00:23:29.563 I it's. 00:23:29.638 --> 00:23:31.438 So there's, there's a pretty decent one. 00:23:31.459 --> 00:23:33.719 It's like vanilla date picker or something like this. 00:23:34.049 --> 00:23:38.507 And it, it does the job and there's a version that does tailwind. 00:23:38.507 --> 00:23:41.691 That's in tailwind, but it's, it's, it's not quite right. 00:23:41.691 --> 00:23:47.271 And it kind of forces other preset formatting on it was so it's like way too 00:23:47.271 --> 00:23:49.791 long trying to fiddle around with that. 00:23:49.821 --> 00:23:55.251 And it's like, I just want a date and a date range picker, and it's fine. 00:23:55.251 --> 00:23:59.759 So it's kind of got that looking more or less as I want it to which 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:01.079 is way more work than it should be. 00:24:01.149 --> 00:24:03.099 So then you go, okay, well you've picked a date. 00:24:03.879 --> 00:24:06.279 So what happens if they press the previous month? 00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:09.969 Well, under normal circumstances, that makes sense, right? 00:24:09.969 --> 00:24:14.109 Because if you've gone the 20th to the 19th, press previous, you still 00:24:14.109 --> 00:24:18.087 want to see the 20th to the 19th, but of the previous date range. 00:24:18.087 --> 00:24:18.327 Right. 00:24:18.687 --> 00:24:24.327 But when someone is looking at the current month, say they show from 00:24:24.327 --> 00:24:28.707 the 1st of February to the 28th of February, what happens when they 00:24:28.707 --> 00:24:33.567 press previous month, then what you want to see from the 1st of January 00:24:33.567 --> 00:24:36.717 to the 31st 31 days in January, know 00:24:38.167 --> 00:24:38.407 Mario: Yeah, 00:24:38.677 --> 00:24:39.687 Alan: you want to see the month, right? 00:24:39.687 --> 00:24:41.607 Not until the 28th of January. 00:24:42.057 --> 00:24:46.707 So how, how do I know that they wanted to look at a month instead of a date range, 00:24:46.737 --> 00:24:48.527 then it's like, oh, that's different. 00:24:49.017 --> 00:24:50.317 Mario: Yeah. 00:24:50.597 --> 00:24:54.177 Alan: And then what happens if they select, you know, that the 1st of 00:24:54.177 --> 00:24:58.557 January, 2020, and they're looking at the 31st of February, 2022 that's. 00:24:59.862 --> 00:25:02.082 Show them two years with a beta. 00:25:02.172 --> 00:25:03.852 So then I've got about pagination. 00:25:03.852 --> 00:25:05.292 I didn't have pagination on that. 00:25:05.292 --> 00:25:08.922 Or do I just restrict the time, the date range to maximum three? 00:25:09.072 --> 00:25:13.092 And there's all these like stupid little cases when I'm 00:25:13.092 --> 00:25:14.862 like viewing a month was easy. 00:25:15.222 --> 00:25:17.142 This, it I'll just start a date range. 00:25:17.172 --> 00:25:17.382 Right? 00:25:17.997 --> 00:25:18.537 Mario: Yeah. 00:25:18.597 --> 00:25:19.167 Yeah. 00:25:19.737 --> 00:25:20.487 Oh man. 00:25:20.517 --> 00:25:22.797 Dealing with dates is always a pain. 00:25:23.022 --> 00:25:25.752 Alan: the other thing is the other fun thing as well is time zone, 00:25:26.022 --> 00:25:27.522 very dependent on time zones, right? 00:25:27.522 --> 00:25:30.852 Because you're doing check-ins, you're doing clock in clock out, you know, 00:25:31.032 --> 00:25:32.562 work, start work, stop it, stop it. 00:25:32.562 --> 00:25:32.862 Stop. 00:25:33.132 --> 00:25:34.782 And of course they're doing it here in Japan. 00:25:34.782 --> 00:25:38.022 Of course I store everything in UTC because that's. 00:25:38.652 --> 00:25:41.153 Necessary which means you select a date range? 00:25:41.153 --> 00:25:47.093 Well, if you're in Japan has selected the date range, which means this time, date 00:25:47.093 --> 00:25:53.638 range in UTC right, which means everything has to be converted through time zones 00:25:53.638 --> 00:26:02.998 for literally every single query and keeping track of that is it's an effort. 00:26:04.143 --> 00:26:04.623 Mario: Yeah. 00:26:05.128 --> 00:26:06.838 Alan: So that's been my week. 00:26:06.905 --> 00:26:08.835 It, again, it's such a trivial little thing. 00:26:09.015 --> 00:26:16.158 So the, one of the the fixes I'm going to try and do to make this less flaky are 00:26:16.158 --> 00:26:23.663 less susceptible to use input problems is to add an option for an organization 00:26:23.663 --> 00:26:24.533 to say, when does your mother. 00:26:26.003 --> 00:26:29.303 So rather than the date range will be there. 00:26:29.363 --> 00:26:34.674 And it will kind of work, but there's going to be places where it's not going 00:26:34.674 --> 00:26:39.850 to be optimal because I'm not taking care of necessarily every single edge case 00:26:39.955 --> 00:26:43.368 all these but I still want to provide them the option of being able to say, 00:26:43.368 --> 00:26:46.698 show me, you know, from the last week. 00:26:46.741 --> 00:26:50.969 But given that this company is always starts on the 20th of the month, let 00:26:50.969 --> 00:26:53.741 them set a start date for their month. 00:26:54.401 --> 00:26:58.631 And default to that, that means the back in the fold will work because 00:26:58.678 --> 00:27:04.184 they know that there's, it, it will set to the 20th to the 19th going back. 00:27:04.244 --> 00:27:06.194 We'll show them the previous 20th and 19th. 00:27:06.494 --> 00:27:09.704 And it's unlikely that they're really going to use the 00:27:09.704 --> 00:27:11.504 range selector that often. 00:27:11.557 --> 00:27:15.221 It, that's going to be a, a niche case rather than the standard case. 00:27:15.221 --> 00:27:16.984 If every time, they went to the page. 00:27:17.014 --> 00:27:19.684 They have to select last month. 00:27:20.254 --> 00:27:24.244 And then this month, this date, the chance of error is high. 00:27:24.274 --> 00:27:24.544 Right. 00:27:24.544 --> 00:27:26.404 Because they'll get the wrong month. 00:27:26.464 --> 00:27:31.324 I mean, I do it used to like start date and you, oh, I've got to go back 00:27:31.324 --> 00:27:35.104 a month and then you click it again and you just get the wrong month. 00:27:35.394 --> 00:27:38.254 You've always got to be kind of on top of making sure that 00:27:38.254 --> 00:27:39.214 you'd enter in the right thing. 00:27:39.864 --> 00:27:40.314 Mario: Yeah. 00:27:40.394 --> 00:27:40.814 Yeah. 00:27:40.894 --> 00:27:45.424 Alan: So if I can default to what they expect, then I'll get it right. 00:27:45.694 --> 00:27:47.104 95% of the time. 00:27:47.104 --> 00:27:47.314 Right. 00:27:47.374 --> 00:27:52.324 And then if they do need a specific date range, let's say, yes, they do need from 00:27:52.654 --> 00:27:55.684 September 1st until August the 19th. 00:27:57.394 --> 00:28:01.564 Other way round, then they can still do that, but that's only 00:28:01.564 --> 00:28:03.814 going to be a niche request. 00:28:03.904 --> 00:28:09.874 And so, yeah, just, just to just start date ranges, it can't be difficult, right? 00:28:10.114 --> 00:28:10.504 Yeah. 00:28:11.894 --> 00:28:14.404 I opened like, oh, this is a nice can of worms what's in here. 00:28:15.564 --> 00:28:15.894 Mario: Yeah. 00:28:16.344 --> 00:28:16.904 Oh yeah. 00:28:17.434 --> 00:28:18.124 Alan: all over my desk. 00:28:19.104 --> 00:28:22.623 Mario: Dealing with dates is such a pain and, time zones man I 00:28:22.753 --> 00:28:23.203 Alan: combo there. 00:28:23.883 --> 00:28:25.143 Mario: I don't envy you at all. 00:28:26.653 --> 00:28:30.853 Alan: So that's yeah, it as I am, I'm 80% of the way through this. 00:28:30.853 --> 00:28:33.403 So I'm kind of like, I've, I've, I've got it all working. 00:28:33.403 --> 00:28:36.523 I just need to make it not as brittle now. 00:28:36.581 --> 00:28:40.322 And just add some validation stuff to some guards to make sure they can't 00:28:40.322 --> 00:28:41.901 go crazy and do stupid stuff with it. 00:28:41.901 --> 00:28:45.121 You know so that's, I've broken it back. 00:28:45.121 --> 00:28:51.841 It's just got to get this done and yeah, that's my, my week a good one. 00:28:53.201 --> 00:28:53.411 Mario: Yeah. 00:28:53.411 --> 00:28:54.281 The fun never ends. 00:28:54.281 --> 00:28:54.581 Right. 00:28:55.331 --> 00:28:55.961 Alan: Yeah. 00:28:56.001 --> 00:29:00.119 And so doing this as well, I I'll just get Phoenix up to date as well. 00:29:00.166 --> 00:29:05.032 Which to be honest, Phoenix is I think this is an offshoot of 00:29:05.097 --> 00:29:10.017 Elixir being unfinished for this matter, being very unmatched sick. 00:29:10.047 --> 00:29:11.727 I mean, does what it provides. 00:29:11.727 --> 00:29:15.687 You feels like magic as an end-user just like I wrote this code and it 00:29:15.777 --> 00:29:19.767 makes me do all this live and it's to my page and it it's fantastic, but it's 00:29:19.767 --> 00:29:21.547 very explicit about what you're doing. 00:29:21.547 --> 00:29:27.371 You know, but rails has this, I think somewhat justified like myth 00:29:27.371 --> 00:29:31.151 of it being magical and oh, lucky, you know, it's all, there's all this 00:29:31.151 --> 00:29:32.291 stuff happening under the surface. 00:29:32.291 --> 00:29:37.301 And you've got like this abstract way of doing it once, you know, rails quite well. 00:29:37.301 --> 00:29:38.861 It doesn't, you don't feel like that. 00:29:38.861 --> 00:29:41.321 It's just, it's, it's quite a common meme, right? 00:29:41.351 --> 00:29:43.001 That rails is magic. 00:29:43.391 --> 00:29:45.161 Phoenix never feels like this. 00:29:45.191 --> 00:29:49.248 It's everything you do is very ex it feels a lot like rails and you know, 00:29:49.278 --> 00:29:53.178 when you first create a project and you start like working on it, it's 00:29:53.178 --> 00:29:56.358 like, oh, I know this there's models here, there's views there there's, it 00:29:56.388 --> 00:29:59.118 all kind of feels very familiar, but. 00:29:59.838 --> 00:30:01.488 Everything is much more explicit. 00:30:02.418 --> 00:30:05.958 You never hit a point where you're like, I don't know where that's getting set. 00:30:05.988 --> 00:30:07.788 It's like, no, there's this pipeline. 00:30:07.998 --> 00:30:08.688 There's all these plugs. 00:30:08.688 --> 00:30:09.978 And it goes through here that does that. 00:30:10.008 --> 00:30:10.698 And then it does that. 00:30:11.118 --> 00:30:15.798 It's like a very easily followable path to where you are right now. 00:30:15.825 --> 00:30:19.975 And that makes it when you do an up date, the updates tend to be, well, this 00:30:19.975 --> 00:30:22.045 has changed in this part of the path. 00:30:22.045 --> 00:30:24.235 So therefore I just need to change this. 00:30:24.235 --> 00:30:26.755 It never feels like I, now nothing works. 00:30:26.755 --> 00:30:27.625 It never feels like that. 00:30:27.655 --> 00:30:30.355 It feels like a very straightforward upgrade path. 00:30:30.355 --> 00:30:32.755 And there've been, you know, the documentation is, is fantastic. 00:30:32.755 --> 00:30:37.973 So it was I was kind of dreading it and then, oh, I spent a few evenings 00:30:37.973 --> 00:30:39.683 doing it and I'm on the latest Phoenix. 00:30:39.683 --> 00:30:41.633 So I'm glad I, I did that. 00:30:43.703 --> 00:30:46.133 I was less successful with the JavaScript dependencies updating, 00:30:46.163 --> 00:30:47.753 but we'll not talk about. 00:30:48.297 --> 00:30:49.017 Mario: Oh man. 00:30:50.637 --> 00:30:52.797 So are you, yeah, so you've been busy with, 00:30:53.717 --> 00:30:54.007 Alan: Yes. 00:30:54.007 --> 00:30:55.217 So yeah, my, my 00:30:55.737 --> 00:30:56.637 Mario: low level. 00:30:57.137 --> 00:31:00.975 Alan: of of doing some you know, this landing page, complete redesigns and 00:31:00.975 --> 00:31:04.422 everything have also been like put on the shelf for another week or two, 00:31:04.422 --> 00:31:05.922 just because it's like, I get this. 00:31:06.222 --> 00:31:09.852 So this customer, again, that they're kind of getting preferential treatment, just 00:31:09.852 --> 00:31:15.252 because of how much they've helped me with the, you know, they were the most vocally 00:31:15.282 --> 00:31:17.335 helpful with, through the beach process. 00:31:17.335 --> 00:31:21.355 Just like, you know, we're, they're really relying on it. 00:31:21.355 --> 00:31:23.935 And they've just been really helpful with all of that feedback. 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:26.600 gone into that office a number of times and they just sat with us and it's like, 00:31:26.810 --> 00:31:29.390 this is, this is what we need it to do. 00:31:29.390 --> 00:31:32.150 And this is what, where we're feeling that it is not right. 00:31:32.540 --> 00:31:34.170 So they're just been so helpful. 00:31:34.260 --> 00:31:36.458 Yeah, of course they're getting, you know preferential treatment, but. 00:31:37.223 --> 00:31:37.883 Mario: Yeah. 00:31:38.553 --> 00:31:43.233 Alan: they're kind of going live with the whole company using this in very soon. 00:31:43.233 --> 00:31:45.813 So it's like, okay, let's get these, these things sorted for them. 00:31:45.813 --> 00:31:48.276 So they they go into it with a good feeling. 00:31:48.336 --> 00:31:48.576 Right. 00:31:49.126 --> 00:31:49.386 Mario: Yeah. 00:31:49.696 --> 00:31:49.876 Yeah. 00:31:49.876 --> 00:31:50.856 Yeah Nice. 00:31:50.856 --> 00:31:55.206 Alan: it's a, it's a, you know, it's super important to keep these 00:31:55.266 --> 00:31:57.726 early customers, you know, close. 00:31:57.726 --> 00:31:57.996 Right. 00:31:58.086 --> 00:31:59.706 Just cause they've been, they've been so good. 00:31:59.706 --> 00:32:01.476 And I, you know, I'm treating them as that. 00:32:01.566 --> 00:32:02.616 I'd like to be treated. 00:32:03.326 --> 00:32:04.346 Mario: Yeah, exactly. 00:32:04.370 --> 00:32:05.450 they're giving you a. 00:32:05.850 --> 00:32:09.660 vote of trust and confidence, you know, even though they know the 00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:11.370 product is in its early stages 00:32:11.510 --> 00:32:11.750 Alan: Right. 00:32:11.930 --> 00:32:12.440 Exactly. 00:32:12.507 --> 00:32:16.341 Mario: They're patient with any issues that come up and, that's invaluable. 00:32:16.341 --> 00:32:21.157 That's amazing to have that kind of support and product and customers that, 00:32:21.157 --> 00:32:24.883 that are willing to give you a chance, you know at this early stage that's 00:32:24.913 --> 00:32:27.283 always, I'm so grateful for that too. 00:32:27.303 --> 00:32:32.123 I have a couple of users who have been very supportive and very vocal about it 00:32:32.123 --> 00:32:34.713 and, recommending it and, to other people. 00:32:34.713 --> 00:32:38.182 And even though it has its issues and it's not quite there yet, 00:32:38.182 --> 00:32:40.049 but really grateful for, for 00:32:40.264 --> 00:32:43.054 Alan: I mean, I think this comes back to, you know, we've we talked about 00:32:43.054 --> 00:32:48.064 this before, but you know, trying to be an authentic creator, you're not a 00:32:48.064 --> 00:32:52.564 faceless corporation, it's you, and you know, you're doing your best and you 00:32:52.564 --> 00:32:54.814 want to make the right thing for people. 00:32:54.814 --> 00:32:55.084 Right. 00:32:55.084 --> 00:32:57.751 So it's and it it's you know, my. 00:32:59.181 --> 00:33:04.411 Feeling for, especially when you, you come across quite a, an obviously 00:33:04.411 --> 00:33:09.001 well-financed startup, that's trying to do something versus, and you know, 00:33:09.001 --> 00:33:13.141 an indie maker or something that you you're aware of the person or the 00:33:13.321 --> 00:33:18.790 handful of people are built at your, your tolerance and your the amount you, 00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:20.950 just, how you feel about it in general. 00:33:20.950 --> 00:33:21.790 It's so different, right? 00:33:21.793 --> 00:33:24.287 You're, you're much more willing to to give feedback. 00:33:24.287 --> 00:33:29.056 You're much more willing to just give things a chance and not overlook, but 00:33:29.086 --> 00:33:33.195 be supportive of it rather than just be like, well, this sucks, which is 00:33:33.195 --> 00:33:37.275 very easy to do for something that you think is just like a well-funded team. 00:33:37.805 --> 00:33:38.765 Mario: Yeah, exactly. 00:33:39.275 --> 00:33:39.545 Yeah. 00:33:39.545 --> 00:33:41.735 There's because you feel like there's no excuse, right. 00:33:41.735 --> 00:33:44.495 At that point he felt like, well, I mean, how many engineers 00:33:44.495 --> 00:33:45.395 do they have working there? 00:33:45.395 --> 00:33:46.715 And this is what they do. 00:33:47.140 --> 00:33:47.620 Alan: Seriously? 00:33:47.675 --> 00:33:48.245 Mario: Like that 00:33:48.370 --> 00:33:49.390 Alan: Well, yeah, exactly. 00:33:49.460 --> 00:33:52.600 That's a very common thought process is like, you mean use, 00:33:52.630 --> 00:33:54.100 it costs you and you can't. 00:33:54.430 --> 00:33:54.760 Okay. 00:33:55.090 --> 00:33:57.430 Speaking of interesting little product, so this is, this is 00:33:57.430 --> 00:33:59.224 something that I, I found this week. 00:33:59.238 --> 00:34:00.508 It's an app called Tango. 00:34:00.578 --> 00:34:06.810 So one of the requests, which I have had again from Japanese customers, 00:34:07.050 --> 00:34:10.524 more so than non-Japanese is a manual. 00:34:11.484 --> 00:34:15.255 I know the same script, but basically some kind of a help system. 00:34:15.255 --> 00:34:19.168 So I started off a knowledge based thing, which I'm using what's it called? 00:34:19.206 --> 00:34:20.416 Eager?. 00:34:20.651 --> 00:34:23.582 Is it yeah, I can't remember, but and that's quite nice for putting 00:34:23.582 --> 00:34:27.937 together a knowledge based thing, but for that also that It's a 00:34:27.937 --> 00:34:29.467 pain to write these things, right. 00:34:29.497 --> 00:34:32.407 Because it's really difficult to say, and then click on 00:34:32.407 --> 00:34:34.147 this, go and take a screenshot. 00:34:34.407 --> 00:34:37.507 And then, you know, and then do this and fill in this here. 00:34:37.507 --> 00:34:43.117 And it's just a very boring process to make any form of help documentation. 00:34:43.117 --> 00:34:43.357 Right. 00:34:43.562 --> 00:34:46.502 Mario: yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:34:46.532 --> 00:34:47.072 Totally. 00:34:47.072 --> 00:34:48.602 It's not fun at all, but 00:34:48.667 --> 00:34:48.937 Alan: at all. 00:34:49.147 --> 00:34:51.367 So, oh, go ahead. 00:34:51.442 --> 00:34:55.153 Mario: No, I was, I was going to say maybe video is like we talk, I know we've talked 00:34:55.153 --> 00:34:59.653 about that before where, you know, maybe video is a better way to go about it, 00:34:59.818 --> 00:35:00.088 Alan: Right. 00:35:00.238 --> 00:35:01.738 So that, that was my feeling too. 00:35:01.738 --> 00:35:03.178 But of course, then I've got all okay. 00:35:03.178 --> 00:35:04.048 Japanese customers. 00:35:04.048 --> 00:35:10.147 I have to then recall Japanese videos, which is you know, they might 00:35:10.147 --> 00:35:14.317 realize, okay, this guy really needs to start this Japanese up, or I get 00:35:14.317 --> 00:35:15.935 pay somebody to record it for me. 00:35:15.935 --> 00:35:19.977 But so this is an interesting one, Tango, what it lets you do is it 00:35:20.062 --> 00:35:22.102 it's a Chrome extension thing. 00:35:22.212 --> 00:35:23.202 You, activate it. 00:35:23.202 --> 00:35:25.832 You say record a new flow of something. 00:35:25.832 --> 00:35:27.882 I think he calls it flow account workflow or something. 00:35:28.212 --> 00:35:28.872 You then do the. 00:35:29.807 --> 00:35:32.567 And in your browser and then you click finish. 00:35:32.867 --> 00:35:37.037 It takes screenshots of that part of the screen with the thing highlighted that 00:35:37.037 --> 00:35:42.767 you clicked and it's, and it will auto fill it in using like alt tags and tie 00:35:42.837 --> 00:35:44.537 and button names and things like that. 00:35:44.537 --> 00:35:49.427 So for instance, creating a new user, I think adding a new user to your system, 00:35:49.697 --> 00:35:53.897 you know, you go to settings, you know, workspace, settings members, click 00:35:53.927 --> 00:35:56.267 add user typing, their email address. 00:35:57.377 --> 00:35:59.957 And that's that's it, but that would take me. 00:36:00.107 --> 00:36:01.907 It's just, I really don't want to do that. 00:36:02.927 --> 00:36:06.107 It's such a painfully process to go through. 00:36:06.287 --> 00:36:09.737 So this, you, you hit record, you effectively go and do those things. 00:36:09.737 --> 00:36:13.827 It gives you a series of screenshots and texts click on this click 00:36:13.827 --> 00:36:14.917 on that click on the other. 00:36:14.917 --> 00:36:18.287 The buttons are highlighted on your screenshots and you can just export it 00:36:18.287 --> 00:36:20.225 or you can link to it on their platform. 00:36:20.258 --> 00:36:24.398 And it's like, okay, I could rattle through this in half an hour, produce 00:36:24.398 --> 00:36:29.378 like 20, how to guides for things like, you know, change, making someone an admin 00:36:29.378 --> 00:36:33.111 or you know, like editing your timecard, things like that, which are like, it's 00:36:33.111 --> 00:36:37.361 obvious you just click on this button, but still it's obvious to me, it's not 00:36:37.361 --> 00:36:38.661 necessarily obvious to an end user. 00:36:38.731 --> 00:36:42.031 So I'm going to give this a go and just try and get using this 00:36:42.061 --> 00:36:43.701 just because it's, again, it is. 00:36:44.656 --> 00:36:50.266 Every single time with Japanese customer, like need a manual or at least a help 00:36:50.266 --> 00:36:53.088 system of some kind that is I don't know. 00:36:53.148 --> 00:36:56.058 It's just, it's really difficult to talk myself into that. 00:36:57.708 --> 00:37:01.728 I know how to know what I need to do, and I know that I need to, it's 00:37:02.098 --> 00:37:02.638 Mario: Yeah. 00:37:02.988 --> 00:37:04.968 Alan: to actually convince myself to start. 00:37:05.928 --> 00:37:10.788 So hopefully this will will, again, it'll get me 70% to 80% of the way there. 00:37:10.788 --> 00:37:12.648 So it's like, okay, well it's kind of done now. 00:37:12.648 --> 00:37:13.548 I just need to finish it off. 00:37:13.698 --> 00:37:13.878 So 00:37:14.418 --> 00:37:14.688 Mario: Yeah. 00:37:14.688 --> 00:37:17.892 It sounds, like it's a pretty useful tool and it'll be helpful. 00:37:17.972 --> 00:37:19.442 Alan: I will report in how it goes 00:37:20.232 --> 00:37:20.712 Mario: All right. 00:37:20.712 --> 00:37:22.242 Is it a paid service 00:37:22.412 --> 00:37:25.592 Alan: do there is, but there's also quite a good prebuilt. 00:37:25.647 --> 00:37:27.651 I'm trying to remember Tango.us. 00:37:27.735 --> 00:37:31.721 I think it is tango dot us Yup create step by step documentation 00:37:31.721 --> 00:37:33.281 with screenshots in seconds. 00:37:33.370 --> 00:37:33.820 Here we go. 00:37:33.970 --> 00:37:35.830 So yeah, unlimited workflows. 00:37:36.250 --> 00:37:37.480 It's got logos on it. 00:37:37.900 --> 00:37:39.302 It's got watermarks on the things. 00:37:39.370 --> 00:37:43.480 If you pay $12 a month, you can blur sensitive information, things like that. 00:37:43.616 --> 00:37:44.666 You can do with more people. 00:37:44.726 --> 00:37:49.526 So freebies looks good enough for me to start off with, and then, you know, 00:37:49.706 --> 00:37:51.026 I'm all for the freebie accounts. 00:37:51.701 --> 00:37:52.421 Mario: Nice. 00:37:52.631 --> 00:37:53.171 Yeah, 00:37:53.186 --> 00:37:56.162 Alan: Although speaking of which, I just got a mixed panel telling me that my 00:37:56.162 --> 00:37:58.172 free account is now going to be $300. 00:37:58.922 --> 00:37:59.942 I was like, cancel. 00:38:01.622 --> 00:38:05.732 They have like, it's one of these, what seems to be common in big 00:38:05.732 --> 00:38:09.032 Silicon valley well-funded startup type things is like, oh, we're 00:38:09.032 --> 00:38:11.222 giving you $50,000 worth of credits. 00:38:11.222 --> 00:38:13.462 And you're like, of course it expires in a year. 00:38:13.462 --> 00:38:13.672 Right. 00:38:13.672 --> 00:38:15.322 And you've used $300 worth of it. 00:38:16.427 --> 00:38:16.967 Mario: yeah, 00:38:18.262 --> 00:38:18.982 Alan: So yeah. 00:38:18.982 --> 00:38:19.262 I'm like, 00:38:19.262 --> 00:38:21.105 Mario: are you going to go for it or are you going to cancel it? 00:38:21.180 --> 00:38:21.660 Alan: Oh canceled. 00:38:21.690 --> 00:38:22.350 I immediately. 00:38:22.903 --> 00:38:24.133 Mario: $300 a month. 00:38:24.528 --> 00:38:24.918 Alan: no, no. 00:38:24.918 --> 00:38:25.188 Yeah. 00:38:25.348 --> 00:38:25.808 I think that, 00:38:25.933 --> 00:38:26.383 Mario: a, year. 00:38:26.418 --> 00:38:28.818 Alan: yeah, I think it was a year for the lowest plan. 00:38:28.848 --> 00:38:29.968 I'm like, yeah, 00:38:30.343 --> 00:38:30.603 Mario: Yeah. 00:38:30.603 --> 00:38:32.023 It's still it's quite a bit. 00:38:32.298 --> 00:38:33.288 Alan: I mean, it's interesting. 00:38:33.288 --> 00:38:34.058 I think there's a free. 00:38:34.058 --> 00:38:37.848 I think it goes down to a free plan, which is, you know, well, within my 00:38:38.448 --> 00:38:41.588 budget of clicks or if not, then I'll just remove some clicks and if going to 00:38:41.628 --> 00:38:47.290 stop it, I mean, it's interesting from a an analytics, not it just an, I, it 00:38:47.290 --> 00:38:52.240 gives me a general idea of, you know, how people are using it on what times, and you 00:38:52.240 --> 00:38:54.490 know, like, so I know when to break it. 00:38:55.605 --> 00:38:59.419 Mario: Yeah, hopefully you didn't have a lot of integration code 00:38:59.524 --> 00:39:02.254 Alan: Now I, I mean, the nice thing about it is it's literally 00:39:02.254 --> 00:39:05.584 like just dropping a bunch of, you know, like track, track track. 00:39:05.584 --> 00:39:08.554 So, you know, in your, it looks goji, you can just put like a Mixpanel dot 00:39:08.554 --> 00:39:10.924 track event and it'll just be, does it. 00:39:11.734 --> 00:39:14.524 So yes, just like find comment, 00:39:15.144 --> 00:39:15.534 Mario: Cool. 00:39:15.594 --> 00:39:17.544 Yeah, I'm looking at their website here at tango. 00:39:17.553 --> 00:39:19.083 Alan: No Tango is say, it's it. 00:39:19.233 --> 00:39:21.363 I'm going to give it a go and see how it works out. 00:39:21.393 --> 00:39:22.743 But I did just a test. 00:39:22.743 --> 00:39:26.630 We'd like two things which you know, took 30 seconds each to do. 00:39:26.690 --> 00:39:32.000 And it got me much further than I have got on any other help documentation so far. 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.430 So I'm like, okay, I can do that. 00:39:34.460 --> 00:39:36.770 I've just got to make a list of, things that I need to do. 00:39:36.770 --> 00:39:37.400 And then yeah. 00:39:37.483 --> 00:39:37.813 Do that. 00:39:38.006 --> 00:39:39.506 Mario: nice, nice find. 00:39:40.076 --> 00:39:41.966 Alan: And then I'll get to the landing page. 00:39:42.896 --> 00:39:45.116 No really need to do that. 00:39:45.957 --> 00:39:47.847 Mario: cool, nice looking website too. 00:39:47.992 --> 00:39:48.442 Alan: interesting. 00:39:48.442 --> 00:39:49.722 Yeah, it's kind of, it 00:39:49.977 --> 00:39:50.247 Mario: nice. 00:39:50.247 --> 00:39:51.087 and clean. 00:39:51.147 --> 00:39:52.797 Really good looking site. 00:39:53.082 --> 00:39:53.382 Alan: Hmm. 00:39:54.447 --> 00:39:54.997 Mario: Very cool. 00:39:54.997 --> 00:39:57.420 It's gonna bookmark it in my tools here, 00:39:57.990 --> 00:40:01.709 Alan: what's the other main tools you cause you're using as was, 00:40:01.709 --> 00:40:04.019 was the landing page, Statamic. 00:40:04.019 --> 00:40:04.649 Mario: yeah. 00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:04.889 Yeah. 00:40:04.889 --> 00:40:05.849 I'm using Statamic 00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:09.503 Statamic for the marketing site. 00:40:09.532 --> 00:40:09.712 Yeah. 00:40:09.712 --> 00:40:12.356 I'm using that with a Tailwind and Yeah. 00:40:12.386 --> 00:40:14.636 still, I love Statamic. 00:40:14.703 --> 00:40:19.589 It's super flexible, but still it's, it's a tool for developers really, you know? 00:40:19.589 --> 00:40:25.439 So it requires that you wire everything up together and some level of maintenance 00:40:25.439 --> 00:40:29.105 is required, you know keeping it up to date and, and if you want to do 00:40:29.105 --> 00:40:30.985 any custom stuff, you have to go in. 00:40:31.780 --> 00:40:35.870 Back and, code some stuff here and there mostly it's markup 00:40:35.900 --> 00:40:38.120 and templating, language 00:40:38.195 --> 00:40:41.745 Alan: what's the meat for something like a landing page? 00:40:41.745 --> 00:40:44.794 What's the, it's a static site generator, right? 00:40:44.794 --> 00:40:47.254 So if you've got like a blog, it'd be great because it could just 00:40:47.344 --> 00:40:48.784 generate all of your pages and stuff. 00:40:49.644 --> 00:40:49.794 Mario: can 00:40:50.044 --> 00:40:52.764 Alan: a landing page, what do you get from just like writing html? 00:40:52.966 --> 00:40:57.256 So say I just made an HTML page with tailwind and hosted 00:40:57.256 --> 00:40:58.936 it on Netlify or something. 00:40:59.056 --> 00:41:01.186 Is that, what does it give me over that? 00:41:01.216 --> 00:41:03.736 I assume it's for, if you're building like a series of pages, 00:41:05.241 --> 00:41:05.541 Mario: Yeah. 00:41:05.541 --> 00:41:06.351 With Statamic, you mean? 00:41:06.371 --> 00:41:07.001 Alan: Yeah, yeah. 00:41:07.731 --> 00:41:08.151 Mario: Yeah. 00:41:08.181 --> 00:41:09.681 I mean, you can, you can build 00:41:09.770 --> 00:41:13.120 that's the thing it's it's really well, so you can build anything from 00:41:13.120 --> 00:41:18.740 like a single page, site to like a full-blown, super complex website. 00:41:18.740 --> 00:41:22.940 and also you can use it as a static site generator, or you could use 00:41:22.940 --> 00:41:28.757 it as a kind of like a dynamic website, but it uses static files. 00:41:28.937 --> 00:41:33.437 That's why it's called static because it, it can do kind of like both, it's kind of 00:41:33.437 --> 00:41:39.917 like both worlds static sites, but it can be dynamic in the way that it behaves, or 00:41:39.917 --> 00:41:45.765 you can export all your pages as static files, which is what I'm doing, but Yeah. 00:41:45.765 --> 00:41:48.933 you can build anything really with it, but there's still. 00:41:48.977 --> 00:41:53.484 A little bit of complexity in terms of, you know, it's not just like 00:41:53.484 --> 00:41:57.223 one of these services where you can just go online, log in and make 00:41:57.223 --> 00:41:58.903 your changes and you're done, right. 00:41:58.903 --> 00:42:02.377 You still have to because you make your changes and, push your, code 00:42:02.377 --> 00:42:05.617 up to the re repo and then do the deployment and that kind of stuff. 00:42:05.644 --> 00:42:09.960 there's still a little bit of a few steps involved in, maintaining your site and 00:42:09.964 --> 00:42:10.163 Alan: Yeah. 00:42:10.193 --> 00:42:12.622 Cause I'm using Umso, Umso.com 00:42:13.036 --> 00:42:13.426 Mario: Oh yeah. 00:42:13.426 --> 00:42:14.446 You mentioned that the other day. 00:42:14.526 --> 00:42:14.946 Alan: Yeah. 00:42:14.946 --> 00:42:17.813 And it's again, I don't have to do anything, so 00:42:18.673 --> 00:42:18.973 Mario: Yeah, 00:42:19.343 --> 00:42:22.103 Alan: Is it literally a, you know, like select your blocks kind of, 00:42:22.403 --> 00:42:23.703 you know, filling a tax sense. 00:42:23.703 --> 00:42:29.848 So I know if I went for a custom page, which again, it, it would be 00:42:29.848 --> 00:42:35.578 nice to do, but I know I'd spend a million times more fiddling with the 00:42:35.578 --> 00:42:37.828 layout than actually the content. 00:42:37.828 --> 00:42:41.728 So using this as kind of forcing me to like, just focus on what you're 00:42:41.728 --> 00:42:45.342 actually putting on the page, not how it you know, how it's laid out 00:42:45.972 --> 00:42:48.072 in code, not necessarily the content. 00:42:48.072 --> 00:42:48.252 Right. 00:42:48.312 --> 00:42:48.492 So. 00:42:48.872 --> 00:42:49.412 Mario: Yeah. 00:42:49.532 --> 00:42:50.132 Yeah. 00:42:50.132 --> 00:42:53.768 And that's sometimes that's something I miss, you know, just 00:42:53.805 --> 00:42:56.325 being able to just, drag and drop. 00:42:56.325 --> 00:43:01.505 And then, you know, just something simple at this stage is probably ideal to, have 00:43:01.685 --> 00:43:05.405 a set up like what you have with Umso because, you don't have, like you said, 00:43:05.470 --> 00:43:08.380 Alan: mean, to be honest, I think this is the thing which costs me 00:43:08.380 --> 00:43:11.530 the most in all of the tools I use and that's like $30 a month. 00:43:13.120 --> 00:43:18.195 So but at the same time, the thought of actually going to something that 00:43:18.615 --> 00:43:22.808 is that I have to do myself is just like, I'll pay the $30 just it's. 00:43:22.883 --> 00:43:23.973 It's, it's crazy. 00:43:23.973 --> 00:43:28.143 That, that the thing that I pay the most for is hosting a static page. 00:43:28.763 --> 00:43:29.183 Mario: Yeah, 00:43:30.543 --> 00:43:33.843 Alan: It's like, like servers running all database and things. 00:43:33.843 --> 00:43:38.463 It's like I'm on the freebee though is, but keeping a landing page 00:43:38.463 --> 00:43:40.323 study landing the page up, it's like, well, I'll pay for that. 00:43:40.973 --> 00:43:41.423 Mario: yeah. 00:43:41.423 --> 00:43:41.643 Yeah. 00:43:41.723 --> 00:43:42.383 Well, I mean, you're 00:43:42.483 --> 00:43:43.023 Alan: may be weird. 00:43:44.093 --> 00:43:46.343 Mario: well, you're paying for the convenience and you don't have 00:43:46.343 --> 00:43:48.593 to, it saves you a lot of time. 00:43:48.593 --> 00:43:49.013 I'm sure. 00:43:49.013 --> 00:43:53.223 Cause you don't have to waste time fiddling with, all your custom build 00:43:53.223 --> 00:43:55.813 template and all the custom stuff. 00:43:56.023 --> 00:43:58.682 And it's just trying to figure out coming up with a design 00:43:58.682 --> 00:44:00.452 and all that it takes forever. 00:44:00.612 --> 00:44:04.002 Alan: Well, again, yeah, it's kind of, I know I'd spend more time thinking 00:44:04.002 --> 00:44:07.492 about that then again, the content, if I went to custom routes, so 00:44:07.757 --> 00:44:08.357 Mario: Yeah. 00:44:08.632 --> 00:44:13.492 Alan: it's kind of forcing my me down a particular course of action is like, 00:44:13.492 --> 00:44:16.702 no, you've got to think of the content because the design is out of your hands. 00:44:17.152 --> 00:44:18.462 So maybe that's good, 00:44:19.097 --> 00:44:19.637 Mario: yeah. 00:44:19.667 --> 00:44:24.327 That's why I kind of settle for a really simple design for now. 00:44:24.327 --> 00:44:28.872 And I'm still using Statamic, cause it gives me that flexibility, but cause 00:44:29.292 --> 00:44:33.342 you know, in a way it's also nice to be able to add things your own way. 00:44:33.342 --> 00:44:36.413 Like for example, I wanted to have that change log. 00:44:36.773 --> 00:44:40.533 So I just, you know, did it, in Statamic is really easy to do that. 00:44:40.593 --> 00:44:44.703 As long as you don't spend a lot of time fiddling with the design and 00:44:44.703 --> 00:44:48.797 stuff, you can just create simple pages and that all, all of that is, you 00:44:48.797 --> 00:44:50.717 know, it's, it's really simple to do. 00:44:50.717 --> 00:44:52.607 but yeah, it takes a little more time 00:44:53.402 --> 00:44:58.560 Alan: Oh, so that, that's what I'm using Eager, eager.app for a help desk like 00:44:58.623 --> 00:45:02.810 knowledge base and they have changed log and a pop-up thing for what's new. 00:45:02.810 --> 00:45:07.216 So again, it's a one person indie maker project and yes, I've 00:45:07.216 --> 00:45:10.794 started putting these things into that just because it's it's nice. 00:45:10.847 --> 00:45:15.047 it's, it's got like a help desk email thing, so you can get like, you 00:45:15.047 --> 00:45:16.577 know, people send you help request. 00:45:16.577 --> 00:45:19.367 It basically has keep keeps it all and then you can link to 00:45:19.367 --> 00:45:20.267 your knowledge base from it. 00:45:20.477 --> 00:45:22.067 So it's, it seems pretty nice. 00:45:22.110 --> 00:45:22.530 Mario: Cool. 00:45:22.530 --> 00:45:24.409 I started playing with what is it called? 00:45:24.439 --> 00:45:25.039 Crisp. 00:45:25.264 --> 00:45:25.534 Alan: All Right. 00:45:25.569 --> 00:45:27.632 Mario: Crisp is another solution kind of like 00:45:27.737 --> 00:45:28.187 Alan: kind of thing. 00:45:28.187 --> 00:45:28.427 Right. 00:45:28.427 --> 00:45:31.838 So yeah, this is I think, you know, this is, this is, it was nice cause 00:45:31.838 --> 00:45:35.329 it's an indie maker and and it was a whole lot cheaper than Intercom 00:45:35.329 --> 00:45:37.639 put she's terrified, expects it. 00:45:38.914 --> 00:45:39.424 Mario: Yeah. 00:45:39.424 --> 00:45:44.194 I was curious about crisp because I know some, people who are using it and, I 00:45:44.194 --> 00:45:48.694 create an account just to check it out and it looks really good, but if I can 00:45:48.694 --> 00:45:52.277 help support an indie maker, I would rather go with something like that. 00:45:52.327 --> 00:45:55.154 As long as it's, you know priced, 00:45:55.604 --> 00:45:56.114 Alan: Exactly. 00:45:56.169 --> 00:45:59.029 Mario: And yeah, send me the link if you, if you don't mind. 00:45:59.389 --> 00:46:00.409 Alan: I'll put it in the shoulder. 00:46:01.499 --> 00:46:02.129 Mario: Oh, there you go. 00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:03.089 Perfect. 00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:03.859 Alan: Yeah. 00:46:03.889 --> 00:46:04.549 Eager dot up. 00:46:04.699 --> 00:46:05.958 But yes, I'll, I'll send you th 00:46:06.618 --> 00:46:07.008 Mario: Cool. 00:46:07.098 --> 00:46:09.078 Alan: and so w what are you using for analytics? 00:46:09.078 --> 00:46:11.508 I'm curious now we, should, we still hold things talking about what 00:46:11.508 --> 00:46:13.248 tools we we have in our back pocket. 00:46:13.758 --> 00:46:15.618 Mario: Oh yeah, that would be a cool episode. 00:46:15.618 --> 00:46:19.278 So actually for analytics, I haven't done anything yet. 00:46:19.278 --> 00:46:21.068 I don't want to use Google analytics. 00:46:21.158 --> 00:46:22.914 Are those are the types of analytics you were referring to 00:46:22.914 --> 00:46:23.754 Alan: That's what I was curious about. 00:46:23.754 --> 00:46:23.964 Yes. 00:46:23.964 --> 00:46:24.234 Yes. 00:46:24.454 --> 00:46:27.186 Mario: Yeah, I, in the past I've used Google analytics, but 00:46:27.186 --> 00:46:30.770 I'm trying to stay away from As much as I can from Google stuff. 00:46:30.770 --> 00:46:36.230 So my plan is to use fathom analytics at some point, but I haven't done that yet. 00:46:36.490 --> 00:46:40.437 Alan: So I'm using a plausible which again, similar idea to for them. 00:46:40.467 --> 00:46:43.737 It's two guys I think in the UK I think I've mentioned it before, 00:46:43.737 --> 00:46:45.387 because it's written in Elixir as well. 00:46:45.687 --> 00:46:48.897 So it's actually that they open sourced the app. 00:46:49.077 --> 00:46:50.607 And so it's an interesting. 00:46:52.327 --> 00:46:55.297 open-source you can, if you want to host it yourself, you can, do you want to 00:46:55.297 --> 00:46:56.767 host your own little analytics service? 00:46:56.827 --> 00:46:58.417 No, so you pay them. 00:46:58.687 --> 00:47:01.507 It's not expensive and it's just really good. 00:47:01.507 --> 00:47:06.029 And so there seemed to be doing really well and yeah, it's super simple, but 00:47:06.029 --> 00:47:07.859 it's, it does everything I need it to. 00:47:07.959 --> 00:47:08.529 So I like it. 00:47:08.859 --> 00:47:09.159 It's good. 00:47:09.234 --> 00:47:10.284 Mario: Nice, nice. 00:47:10.824 --> 00:47:11.364 Yeah. 00:47:11.431 --> 00:47:12.273 That's a great idea. 00:47:12.273 --> 00:47:14.703 We should do an episode with just that 00:47:14.778 --> 00:47:17.118 Alan: What we use and why we like it and what we don't like about it. 00:47:17.793 --> 00:47:22.368 Mario: yeah, once we have once we've established some of these tools, a 00:47:22.368 --> 00:47:25.458 little better, cause some of these we're still playing around and trying 00:47:25.458 --> 00:47:26.838 to figure out which one to use. 00:47:26.838 --> 00:47:27.138 Right. 00:47:27.858 --> 00:47:28.428 Cool. 00:47:28.892 --> 00:47:29.222 All right. 00:47:29.222 --> 00:47:31.096 Well anything else we want to talk about? 00:47:31.651 --> 00:47:32.281 Alan: I think that's good. 00:47:33.256 --> 00:47:34.276 Mario: we should wrap it up here 00:47:34.326 --> 00:47:35.956 All right, Alan, I'll let you go then. 00:47:35.993 --> 00:47:37.493 Have a great rest of your day. 00:47:37.523 --> 00:47:39.683 You're just getting started, and mine is ending. 00:47:39.853 --> 00:47:40.723 Alan: Enjoy your week 00:47:41.029 --> 00:47:41.329 Mario: Yeah. 00:47:41.359 --> 00:47:41.779 Thank you. 00:47:42.869 --> 00:47:43.199 Cheers man. 00:47:43.789 --> 00:47:44.239 Take care.