What’s up everyone, today we’re chatting with Josh Hill, a GTM operations and tech executive with more than 20 years of experience in B2B sales, marketing, and technology.
Summary: Josh delved into how integrating sales experience into marketing strategies leads to more customer-centric approaches. He highlighted the importance of hands-on experience with martech tools, blending marketing creativity with technical know-how, and the significance of high-quality data for effective AI implementation in marketing. He shared his journey of juggling personal projects with professional growth, striking a chord on maintaining work-life balance in a high-octane career. This episode is a backstage pass for anyone in martech, offering practical insights and strategies to take center stage in this mad world of martech.
About Josh
- Josh started his career in enterprise sales at The Economist before moving to a demand gen role where he wore many different hats including martech and database management
- He then had a few short stints at different software and cybersecurity companies touching everything from SEO, SEM, content, branding, email deliverability and data quality
- He was also a solopreneur and consulted with senior marketing and sales leaders at B2B SaaS companies
- Josh is best known for creating the marketingrockstarguides blog for 7 years, one of the top blogs supporting marketing technologists, before it’s acquisition by Etumos a marketing automation consultancy
- Most recently, Josh spent 7.5 years at RingCentral moving up to Associate VP of Martech where he built and led a globally distributed center of excellence to scale GTM and Martech architecture
- Today Josh serves as an Advisor at Openprise, a RevOps data automation platform for enterprise
Leveraging Sales Experience for Marketing Success
Josh's career trajectory from sales to marketing is a story that demonstrates the value of cross-functional skills in today's business world. His time at The Economist, where he honed his skills in account renewal and new business acquisition, laid a solid foundation for his later transition to marketing. Josh highlights the importance of direct customer interactions and negotiation skills developed in sales, which provided him with a unique perspective and skill set. These skills proved to be invaluable as he moved into marketing, particularly in stakeholder management and vendor relations.
In his sales role, Josh realized a disconnect between marketing materials and customer perceptions. This insight led him to rethink the approach to customer engagement, moving away from traditional sales pitches to a more content-focused marketing strategy. His success in sales, where he was one of the top representatives, stemmed from aligning customer needs with marketing messages, an approach he sought to scale in his marketing role.
Josh's transition was not just a shift in job functions but a broader business transformation. He emphasized the importance of aligning sales and marketing, leveraging marketing automation tools, and understanding the nuances of demand generation. His hands-on experience with attribution reporting and CRM systems further enriched his marketing expertise. Josh's journey is a testament to the benefits of integrating technology and customer service experiences into marketing strategies.
Key takeaway: Josh's transition from sales to marketing at The Economist underscores the value of integrating sales insights into marketing strategies. By utilizing his direct customer interactions and negotiation skills acquired in sales, he crafted marketing approaches that were more aligned with customer needs and expectations. This fusion of sales and marketing perspectives proved crucial in developing effective, customer-centric marketing strategies, demonstrating the importance of cross-functional skills in the martech industry.
Building a Respected Martech Resource: Marketing Rockstar Guides
Josh's journey in the martech world is a remarkable story of how personal branding and content marketing can converge to create a powerful platform. His blog, Marketing Rockstar Guides, emerged as a response to the growing curiosity and challenges professionals faced in understanding and utilizing marketing technology tools effectively. Recognizing the gap in practical, hands-on knowledge, Josh leveraged his own experiences and insights to create a resource that would demystify complex martech concepts for a broader audience.
Initially, Josh's venture into content creation was fueled by his innate ability to understand and implement emerging martech tools, a skill that many in the industry were struggling with. His hands-on approach to learning by doing became the cornerstone of his content strategy. He began addressing common workflow problems and providing solutions through his blog, quickly transforming it into an essential resource for martech professionals. This move not only established him as a thought leader but also laid the groundwork for his first consulting gig, showcasing the power of sharing knowledge.
As the blog grew, it became a significant inbound engine for his consulting business, attracting professionals who were grateful for the practical guidance it offered. Topics on the blog often stemmed from community questions, reflecting Josh's commitment to addressing real-world problems and aiding career development in the martech sector. This engagement also opened doors for speaking opportunities, further solidifying his position as an expert in the field.
However, managing a growing platform while balancing a full-time job became a challenge for Josh. His decision to pass on the baton of his blog was not an easy one, but it was a strategic move to ensure the continuity of the resource he had built. The sale of the blog marked a new phase in his career, as he began exploring other content platforms and mediums, like LinkedIn, to continue sharing valuable insights in the evolving martech landscape.
Key takeaway: Josh's creation and eventual sale of Marketing Rockstar Guides is a testament to the impact of sharing expertise and practical solutions in the martech industry. His approach demonstrates the power of content marketing and personal branding in building a respected resource, while also highlighting the challenges of balancing personal projects with professional commitments.
The Practicality of Hands-On Martech Experience
Josh's insights into the martech world emphasize the invaluable role of hands-on experience in mastering marketing technology. His journey, particularly during his early days at The Economist, showcases the significance of directly engaging with tools and processes to understand and improve them. This hands-on approach, he believes, is crucial for anyone looking to excel in the martech field.
Initially, Josh tackled attribution by manually analyzing data within a limited scope, using tools like Salesforce campaigns. This process, though time-consuming, was instrumental in understanding the effectiveness of various marketing tactics, such as content types and event charges. This hands-on experience allowed him to develop a deep understanding of low-level attribution, leading to more effective marketing strategies and cost reductions.
However, Josh advises against relying solely on manual processes. Instead, he encourages a 'play to learn' approach, advocating for exploration and experimentation with martech tools. This involves questioning every step of a process, from sending an email to capturing data for a white paper. By understanding the components and mechanics of these tasks, martech professionals can more effectively leverage technology to achieve their goals.
Josh's strategy extends beyond just learning how to use tools; it's about understanding their potential to transform workflows and processes. He emphasizes the importance of thinking beyond the immediate function of a tool and considering how it can be used creatively to solve problems. This approach has been a guiding principle in his trainings, encouraging learners to not just memorize documentation but to think critically about how to apply these tools in various scenarios.
The shift from manual to automated processes in martech, as Josh experienced, is not just a technological upgrade but a fundamental change in how marketing operations are approached and executed. This evolution requires a balance of hands-on experimentation, critical thinking, and an understanding of the broader business context.
Key takeaway: Mastering martech requires more than just technical know-how; it demands a hands-on, exploratory approach. Josh's experience highlights the importance of engaging directly with martech tools, thinking creatively about their application, and understanding the broader business implications. This practical, hands-on approach is essential for anyone looking to make a significant impact in the martech industry.
How Martech is Bridging the Gap Between Marketing and Engineering
Josh’s take on the evolution of martech reveals a nuanced understanding of its role in bridging the gap between marketing and engineering. Initially, martech emerged as a response to engineering constraints, empowering marketers with tools that bypassed the need for technical expertise for tasks like form creation. This independence from engineering teams was a significant shift, allowing marketers to swiftly execute their ideas without the usual delays associated with technical development.
In the early days of marketing automation platforms, the appeal of martech was its simplicity and the empowerment it offered to marketers. The ability to use templates and basic HTML knowledge to create marketing assets was a game changer. This development marked a departure from traditional reliance on web and engineering teams, especially in an era where custom solutions and less API-friendly systems were the norm.
However, as martech matured, the landscape began to change. The demand for more sophisticated features like real-time omnichannel personalization and closer integration with sales data pushed the boundaries of what traditional marketing roles could handle. This evolution led to the emergence of specialized roles in marketing operations and the need for individuals who could blend technological knowledge with marketing and sales expertise.
Now, in the current martech environment, there's an increasing requirement for more technical skills within marketing teams. While martech is still primarily designed with marketers in mind, the complexity of modern marketing strategies often necessitates the involvement of data engineers and coders. This shift doesn't negate the marketer's role but rather calls for a hybrid skill set where marketing intuition is complemented by technical prowess.
Key takeaway: Martech initially emerged to address engineering constraints, offering marketers more autonomy and flexibility. However, the evolving needs of modern marketing strategies have led to a more integrated approach, where technical skills are becoming increasingly important within marketing teams. The future of martech lies in this fusion of marketing creativity and engineering expertise, moving towards a more collaborative and technically adept marketing landscape.
Navigating Global Marketing Automation Rollouts
Josh reflects on a pivotal project, a 20-region global marketing automation rollout, which he joined mid-way through its execution. This project, one of the largest of its kind at the time, offered Josh and his collaborator, Wyatt Bales, a wealth of experience and learning opportunities. The rollout was not just a technical endeavor but also a strategic transformation challenge, especially outside the U.S., where marketing practices varied significantly.
The project’s success hinged on a hub-and-spoke model, where a central team set standards and trained regional teams in demand generation techniques and tool utilization. This approach ensured standardization while allowing for local adjustments. The key challenge, as Josh points out, was not the technical implementation but aligning strategy across regions, particularly in areas like lead flow and UTM (Urchin Tracking Module) motion.
One significant learning from this project was the realization of regional differences in marketing practices, such as the varying effectiveness of content marketing, SEO, and advertising. Josh noticed that certain techniques like lead nurturing significantly increased deal velocity once leads reached the Marketing Qualified Lead (MQL) stage. Tools like Marketo provided visibility into these processes for the first time, offering valuable insights into the customer journey.
However, Josh emphasizes that the tool's success is contingent on having a solid business strategy and process in place. He observed that dissatisfaction with a tool often stems from inadequately defined business processes rather than the tool itself. The key to effective automation, therefore, lies in aligning the tool with well-thought-out business strategies and processes, ensuring that stakeholders are brought along on this journey.
Key takeaway: The success of a large-scale marketing automation rollout relies on more than just technical execution; it demands a strategic alignment of business processes across regions and teams. Josh's experience with a 20-region rollout highlights the importance of a hub-and-spoke model for standardization and training, the need for regional customization, and the crucial role of business strategy in effective tool implementation. This approach ensures that marketing automation tools are not just implemented but are leveraged to their full potential in harmonizing global marketing efforts.
High-Quality Data is The Cornerstone of AI in Marketing Operations
Josh delves into the critical role of high-quality data in effectively leveraging AI within marketing operations (mops). His perspective is rooted in over a decade of experience in the martech sector, where he has observed the evolution of AI from a theoretical concept to a practical tool. The key, according to Josh, lies in not just having data, but ensuring that it is clean, normalized, and relevant to the business processes it is intended to support.
The conversation around AI in marketing often revolves around its potential to revolutionize processes like asset recommendation and predictive modeling. However, Josh stresses that the effectiveness of these AI applications hinges on the quality of underlying data. This involves examining whether the data sets are robust and well-structured enough to support AI-driven decisions, such as lead or account scoring. It's not just about the technological capability to deploy AI solutions but also about ensuring that these solutions are built on a foundation of reliable data.
Josh also highlights a common oversight in AI implementation: the focus on technology without due consideration for the management and maintenance of the system. He points out that deploying AI solutions like next-best-action models requires not only the right data but also dedicated personnel to manage and update the system continuously. Without this support, even the most advanced AI systems can fall short.
In his martech audits, Josh pays particular attention to the engagement level of data on a first-party basis, the effectiveness of data cleaning and normalization processes, and the robustness of attribution collection. These factors are crucial for any AI-driven personalization effort. For instance, if a significant portion of your data contains placeholder text like "Hi, first name," no AI model, no matter how advanced, can deliver meaningful personalization.
Key takeaway: The foundation of successful AI implementation in marketing is deeply rooted in rigorous data hygiene and normalization practices. This approach is vital to ensure that AI tools are fed with data that is not only reliable but also highly relevant to specific marketing goals. Accurate and effective AI outcomes are contingent on the quality of input data, making it imperative for organizations to prioritize meticulous data management. By doing so, they set the stage for AI systems to deliver their full potential, driving more insightful, data-driven marketing strategies.
Streamlining Marketing Operations Beyond AI Glamour
Josh's insights focus on the often overlooked yet crucial aspects of marketing operations, particularly the importance of automating and streamlining processes that might not be as glamorous as deploying AI tools but are essential for efficient marketing functions. He emphasizes the need for marketing and operations teams to identify and optimize these key processes.
One common challenge in marketing is the ad hoc nature of certain tasks, like re-engaging with lost or almost-lost deals. Josh advises against impromptu approaches, advocating for more strategic, targeted efforts. This strategy not only enhances efficiency but also helps in maintaining email deliverability and overall campaign effectiveness. The key is to shift from a reactive to a proactive mindset, designing marketing journeys and campaigns with foresight and intentionality.
Josh also highlights the role of marketing operations in leading these initiatives. He suggests adopting a process-driven approach, where repeatable tasks like re-engagement campaigns are automated and integrated into the broader marketing strategy. This approach allows teams to focus on more complex and value-adding activities.
However, he acknowledges that some resistance to automation might exist, either due to a lack of understanding or a belief that future iterations might not require it. In such scenarios, Josh has found success in organizing workshops to map out current and future states of processes. These collaborative sessions, which bring together various stakeholders, facilitate a shared understanding and agreement on how to leverage marketing automation platforms effectively.
Key takeaway: Effective marketing operations extend beyond the allure of new technologies like AI. Josh underscores the importance of focusing on foundational marketing processes, advocating for strategic automation and proactive planning. By aligning marketing operations with best practices and streamlining repeatable tasks, teams can enhance efficiency and focus on higher-value activities, ensuring a more robust and responsive marketing strategy.
Navigating the Email Deliverability Landscape in 2024
Josh discusses the anticipated challenges in email marketing deliverability expected by 2024, focusing on the importance of list management and compliance with evolving email regulations. His perspective offers valuable insights into the future of email marketing, particularly in the context of the changes Google and other providers are implementing.
The conversation around email deliverability often centers on the need for marketers to stay ahead of these changes. Josh emphasizes that if marketing operations teams weren’t already rigorously scrubbing their lists to meet specific targets, they were not fully doing their job. He notes that the targets for unsubscribes and abuse rates have been around for a long time, and adhering to them is crucial to avoid being flagged or blocked by email providers.
A significant part of the challenge lies in the use of sales automation tools like Outreach and Salesloft. While these tools offer benefits, they also pose risks, especially if marketing or operations teams don’t have direct control over them. Sales teams may upload large lists without proper vetting, potentially jeopardizing the organization's email reputation. Josh points out that while these tools have mechanisms to manage email flows, the responsibility ultimately falls on the organization to ensure compliance and effective use.
Josh's experience suggests a collaborative approach between sales and marketing. The goal is to ensure that sales teams focus on relationship-building while marketing teams handle MQLs and other automated communications in a compliant manner. However, he acknowledges the challenge in aligning sales with these practices, especially as the landscape of tools and regulations evolves.
Key takeaway: As we approach 2024, the dynamics of email marketing are changing rapidly, with a greater emphasis on deliverability and compliance. Josh’s insights highlight the importance of proactive list management and the need for marketing operations to work closely with sales teams to navigate these changes. The future success of email marketing will depend on the ability to adapt to these evolving standards while maintaining effective communication channels.
Achieving Work-Life Balance in a High-Demand Career
Josh’s reflections on maintaining happiness and success in a high-demand career like his in the field of marketing technology offer valuable insights into achieving work-life balance. His journey is a testament to the evolving nature of professional contentment and the importance of aligning personal priorities with career goals.
Initially, Josh devoted himself entirely to marketing technology, immersing in activities like blogging, writing, and constantly working in the field.
This phase, characterized by intense involvement and dedication, was fulfilling for him at the time. However, as his priorities shifted, he recognized the need for a change. This realization led him to step away from the blog and the community, emphasizing the significance of reassessing and realigning personal and professional goals.
Josh's approach to finding balance involves continuously evaluating his satisfaction and accomplishments in his career. He emphasizes the importance of asking oneself whether they have fulfilled their job responsibilities for the day, regardless of the ongoing nature of work. This mindset helps in staying grounded and maintaining a sense of achievement.
Moreover, Josh underscores the importance of reflection on future aspirations. For him, this includes focusing on people management, exploring larger-scale technologies, and balancing these professional endeavors with personal interests like travel and family. His experience highlights that happiness in one’s career is not static but evolves with changing personal desires and professional ambitions.
Key takeaway: Balancing a demanding career with personal happiness requires continuous self-reflection and realignment of priorities. Josh’s experience in the martech field illustrates that while deep immersion in work can be fulfilling, it's crucial to recognize when to shift focus and redefine what success means on a personal level. Achieving this balance involves assessing daily accomplishments, setting future goals, and integrating personal interests into one’s career trajectory.
Episode Recap
We dive into Josh's journey from sales to marketing and into the depths of martech revealed practical, actionable insights. His path illustrates the seamless integration of sales acumen into marketing strategies. This blend shows the value of understanding customer needs from a sales perspective and applying this knowledge to craft more targeted and effective marketing tactics. It's a clear message: the best marketing strategies are often born from a deep understanding of customer interaction, a lesson invaluable for those navigating the martech landscape.
Josh's venture, Marketing Rockstar Guides, further emphasizes this point. Building and eventually selling this resource wasn't just about sharing knowledge; it was about the effective use of content marketing and personal branding to establish a credible voice in the martech community. His journey here is a guide on balancing personal projects with professional growth, showcasing the potential of combining expertise with entrepreneurial spirit.
His hands-on approach with martech tools brings to light another crucial aspect. Mastery in this field isn't just theoretical; it's about diving into the tools themselves, understanding their practical applications, and creatively applying them to broader business strategies. This approach is key for those aiming to excel in martech, where theoretical knowledge must meet practical application.
Fainlly, as we look at the role of AI in marketing, Josh underscores the significance of high-quality data. The success of AI in marketing hinges on the data fed into these systems. Thus, rigorous data management practices are not just beneficial but essential for effective AI outcomes in marketing.
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