WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:05.414 --> 00:00:11.474 jethro_1_06-18-2025_121340: Welcome to Transformative Principle, where I help you stop putting out fires and start leading. 00:00:11.984 --> 00:00:13.484 I'm your host, Jethro Jones. 00:00:13.484 --> 00:00:16.184 You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones. 00:00:34.922 --> 00:00:36.932 Welcome to Transformative Principal. 00:00:36.932 --> 00:00:38.522 I'm your host, Jethro Jones. 00:00:38.522 --> 00:00:44.462 You can find me on all the social networks at Jethro Jones, and I gotta tell you, you're in for a treat. 00:00:44.462 --> 00:00:44.822 Today. 00:00:45.602 --> 00:00:47.192 We're doing something a little bit different. 00:00:47.342 --> 00:00:50.132 As you know, I like to do things a little bit different. 00:00:51.077 --> 00:01:03.947 We're gonna listen in on a great conversation between Dr. Aaron Bailey, the Vice President of Literacy Programs and Research at Reading is Fundamental, and Barb Sol the nami National Director of Innovation. 00:01:04.367 --> 00:01:30.007 Now, naomi is the National Alliance on Mental Illness, and they're doing some great work, but what's really amazing is that between these two organizations, uh, Macy's has come to connect them and Macy's, you know, the store where you buy nice stuff, nice clothes, uh, they've partnered with Reading is Fundamental and the National Alliance on Mental Illness for a campaign. 00:01:30.502 --> 00:01:37.432 That will help students head back to school with confidence providing books and mental health resources to children nationwide. 00:01:38.002 --> 00:01:48.982 So now when you're listening to this through September 14th, you can round up your Macy's purchase in store to help reading as fundamental ensure that every child has the opportunity to literacy provides. 00:01:49.612 --> 00:01:51.382 But here's the other thing. 00:01:52.242 --> 00:02:04.152 What these two ladies talk about is the power of connection and how reading helps that connection, which in turn helps mental health, which I think is so powerful. 00:02:04.452 --> 00:02:04.512 So. 00:02:05.827 --> 00:02:15.607 I am excited for you to chat or to listen to this chat between these two amazing women and hear what they have to say about literacy and about mental health in the United States right now. 00:02:15.977 --> 00:02:28.487 With that, let's get into this conversation between Barb Solich from National Alliance on Mental Illness and Aaron Bailey from Reading as Fundamental about literacy and mental health together as one. 00:02:28.907 --> 00:02:29.567 Here we go. 00:02:29.727 --> 00:02:38.277 Alright, to start, Aaron is gonna ask Barb a question so you could start orienting their voices because you know you can't see 'em. 00:02:38.337 --> 00:02:40.107 'cause this is an audio only podcast. 00:02:40.107 --> 00:02:42.177 So here they are chatting. 00:02:42.207 --> 00:02:43.197 I'll turn it over to them. 00:02:43.506 --> 00:02:44.016 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: Hey Barb. 00:02:44.016 --> 00:02:45.606 Great to be chatting with you today. 00:02:45.786 --> 00:02:52.476 Can you share about the mental health crisis in America and specifically how does it impact young people? 00:02:54.156 --> 00:02:55.716 barb-solish--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_151404: Yeah, it's such a big question. 00:02:55.716 --> 00:02:59.346 I mean, I think we are absolutely. 00:02:59.376 --> 00:03:01.806 Facing a youth mental health crisis. 00:03:01.926 --> 00:03:19.746 I think it's a headline that we see over and over, and it sometimes we can become desensitized to it a little bit, but it's also something that families, teachers, communities, are seeing and grappling with every day, um, in real life. 00:03:20.406 --> 00:03:27.126 I think some people are surprised to learn that actually 50% of all mental health conditions start by age 14. 00:03:28.086 --> 00:03:31.956 Um, so it starts young and 75% by age 25. 00:03:33.156 --> 00:03:43.056 early intervention is really critical and it creates such different outcomes for people when they get the help they deserve early on. 00:03:44.016 --> 00:03:56.496 Um, but the truth is that while millions and millions of kids in the US are experiencing a mental health condition every year, we also know that over 50% of them are not getting the treatment they deserve. 00:03:56.991 --> 00:04:16.251 Um, and those rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts among kids and teens, they are going up and up over the past decade, um, though we've known this has been happening for a long time, the pandemic really accelerated things, um, in part by disrupting routines. 00:04:17.106 --> 00:04:22.836 Support systems, school, a sense of safety for so many young people. 00:04:23.076 --> 00:04:30.486 And I think, you know, it's been said many times, but the kids are not all right and we owe it to them to do something about it. 00:04:30.486 --> 00:04:35.346 And I think our organizations are really aligned in helping kids. 00:04:35.346 --> 00:04:38.646 So, um, I'll actually just turn this back around on you. 00:04:38.646 --> 00:04:42.366 Can you talk a little bit, um, about the literacy crisis? 00:04:42.996 --> 00:04:43.656 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: Sure. 00:04:44.076 --> 00:04:53.466 Um, yeah, so similarly when we hear the term literacy crisis, just like mental health crisis, it's multi multilayered, multifaceted. 00:04:53.896 --> 00:04:59.446 Um, so when we typically talk about the literacy crisis, it's about literacy rates. 00:04:59.476 --> 00:05:03.166 Um, and we measure those typically by NA scores. 00:05:03.166 --> 00:05:08.926 NA is the National Association of Education Progress, or you might hear it as the nation's report card. 00:05:08.926 --> 00:05:10.846 They do testing every couple years. 00:05:11.176 --> 00:05:17.746 Um, and the most recent, uh, findings were that 69, uh, percent of fourth graders were reading below. 00:05:18.576 --> 00:05:18.906 level. 00:05:18.906 --> 00:05:20.976 So a lot of times when we hear crisis, that's it. 00:05:21.036 --> 00:05:27.846 We have 69% of fourth graders, that's 25 million children, um, that aren't reading at grade level. 00:05:28.236 --> 00:05:31.146 Um, and you know, what does that mean for us as society? 00:05:31.146 --> 00:05:39.141 Well, I. For fourth graders, similar to how, Mo, what you were saying, like mental health, it mostly starts by age 14. 00:05:39.381 --> 00:05:48.441 Very similarly, the trajectory for you, if you're not reading at grade level by fourth grade, you're four times more likely to drop out of high school. 00:05:48.831 --> 00:05:58.431 Um, and then two thirds of people who cannot read proficiently by fourth grade end up either on welfare or in the prison system. 00:05:58.431 --> 00:05:59.301 In this country. 00:05:59.631 --> 00:06:00.171 Um. 00:06:01.026 --> 00:06:05.946 then additionally, on top of that, it, there's economic implications of course. 00:06:06.156 --> 00:06:16.386 Um, so if 20% of adults who aren't reading proficiently aren't able to live to earn a living wage, um, so that's typically how we think of it in terms of like. 00:06:16.731 --> 00:06:24.861 What is the reading rates in terms of proficiency for fourth graders, eighth graders, and what does that mean for their educational career? 00:06:25.161 --> 00:06:32.421 Um, for their, for their, um, career outside of school and for the, uh, impact on society? 00:06:32.841 --> 00:06:39.771 Um, I tend to look at also what kids are reading for fun, because reading is fundamental. 00:06:39.771 --> 00:06:41.181 We're all about the joy of reading. 00:06:41.661 --> 00:06:50.451 We strongly believe that joy and motivation, um, makes kids wanna keep reading and then wanting to read. 00:06:50.451 --> 00:06:54.111 You read more and more, and then your proficiency levels, uh, go up. 00:06:54.111 --> 00:06:55.281 So we're all about joy. 00:06:55.611 --> 00:06:58.431 Um, that being said, there's a crisis there too. 00:06:58.461 --> 00:07:06.141 Uh, I think I've shared this, uh, on other podcasts before with you, Jethro, that 14 uh, percent of 13 year olds. 00:07:06.456 --> 00:07:08.526 Report reading for fun every day. 00:07:08.766 --> 00:07:13.536 It's such a small, um, amount, and that's 3% lower than 2020. 00:07:13.536 --> 00:07:16.356 That's just the most recent scores in 2023. 00:07:16.896 --> 00:07:21.666 Um, so overall, uh, students are reporting less and less that they read for fun. 00:07:23.211 --> 00:07:32.871 Um, recent reports have also shown that Gen Z parents are also seeing, saying that they don't read to their children because they don't see it as, um, being fun. 00:07:32.871 --> 00:07:42.746 So that's what I mean is that you can look at the literacy crisis from a lot of different angles, um, and see that yeah, it's a multifaceted issue in our country. 00:07:44.601 --> 00:07:53.541 barb-solish--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_151404: Wow, that is, those numbers are so stark and so interesting, and I. And I hadn't thought about the fun aspect of, obviously talking about reading is fundamental. 00:07:53.541 --> 00:07:55.251 It makes a, it makes a lot of sense. 00:07:55.311 --> 00:07:57.801 Um, you know, we see some of those similar numbers. 00:07:58.401 --> 00:08:06.171 High school students with significant depression are more than twice as likely to drop out compared to their peers. 00:08:06.591 --> 00:08:14.241 And, um, if a student age six to 17 is what we measure, has serious mental health concerns there. 00:08:14.661 --> 00:08:16.821 Three times more likely to repeat a grade. 00:08:17.211 --> 00:08:21.681 So we're facing these challenges that are so aligned and I think that, um. 00:08:22.431 --> 00:08:27.531 missions are really strong and I'm so grateful that Macy's connected us. 00:08:27.591 --> 00:08:36.471 Um, so that we can com combine, combine our powers for good and to, you know, help nurture strong and resilient kids. 00:08:37.221 --> 00:08:39.381 I think when we talk about investing in. 00:08:40.221 --> 00:08:42.201 Children and their minds. 00:08:42.531 --> 00:08:53.181 It's not just reading or writing, it's also emotional support, and that sets them up for success in school and and in life. 00:08:53.991 --> 00:08:54.561 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: Absolutely. 00:08:54.801 --> 00:09:04.551 So are there some tools that you typically recommend for families or teachers, school personnel as they're supporting children's mental health? 00:09:04.551 --> 00:09:04.581 I. 00:09:06.531 --> 00:09:07.941 barb-solish--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_151404: Yeah, so we've got a lot. 00:09:07.971 --> 00:09:10.941 Um, NAMI is the National Anti Mental Illness. 00:09:10.971 --> 00:09:20.451 Um, we've got, um, over 650 state organizations and affiliates across the country who are doing support advocacy education. 00:09:21.156 --> 00:09:34.056 in their communities on the ground, and a lot of it is focused around early intervention and for, for kids and also supporting, the, um, the supportive adults in their lives. 00:09:34.056 --> 00:09:35.646 So that's educators and parents. 00:09:35.646 --> 00:09:37.296 Like you're, like you're talking about. 00:09:37.296 --> 00:09:37.926 And so. 00:09:38.391 --> 00:09:46.191 One of the things I think I hear a lot is I, I, as an adult, don't feel equipped to handle these kinds of questions. 00:09:46.191 --> 00:09:48.471 I'm an educator, I'm a teacher, I'm a math teacher. 00:09:48.471 --> 00:09:51.711 I'm not, uh, I'm not a school psychologist. 00:09:52.161 --> 00:10:02.211 Well, the the truth is, is these kids are coming to class as they are, and the likelihood is you are a supportive adult in their life and you are having impact. 00:10:02.601 --> 00:10:02.751 Um. 00:10:03.411 --> 00:10:04.761 So why not? 00:10:04.821 --> 00:10:08.301 Um, you know, help yourself and get yourself some support. 00:10:08.301 --> 00:10:09.711 And that's what we are here for. 00:10:09.711 --> 00:10:17.661 We have a ton of resources at nami.org/back to school, um, to questions to ask in class. 00:10:18.141 --> 00:10:18.531 Great. 00:10:18.531 --> 00:10:23.961 We have a, a mental health classroom contract, which is we talk to each other throughout class. 00:10:23.961 --> 00:10:27.351 We, we, um, you know, we communicate our emotions. 00:10:27.801 --> 00:10:28.371 Um. 00:10:28.746 --> 00:10:32.316 And, and so much more mindfulness, exer exercises. 00:10:32.346 --> 00:10:40.266 We also, um, have a coloring and activity book for kids, uh, starting age three called Meet Little Monster. 00:10:40.266 --> 00:10:41.196 It's completely free. 00:10:41.196 --> 00:10:43.506 It's available in six languages on our website. 00:10:43.536 --> 00:10:53.946 Um, and it basically takes you, a young child with an adult through managing, understanding, identifying and managing emotions and. 00:10:54.741 --> 00:10:56.661 And what's so great about it is that it's fun. 00:10:56.931 --> 00:11:00.741 Um, it's a coloring book, mo, little monster is adorable. 00:11:00.801 --> 00:11:03.951 Um, but you're learning while you go and you're doing it with an adult. 00:11:03.951 --> 00:11:19.611 So I think there's just a lot of different ways, um, adults and, um, educators, parents, you know, anybody who is supporting a child can, um, can get the support that they need. 00:11:19.956 --> 00:11:20.976 To help kids. 00:11:21.276 --> 00:11:23.886 Um, we also have a lot of conversation starters. 00:11:23.886 --> 00:11:25.146 I think that's a big one. 00:11:25.206 --> 00:11:29.556 Um, not only starting the conversation, but also recognizing signs. 00:11:29.556 --> 00:11:31.986 So a lot of people get concerned. 00:11:32.256 --> 00:11:34.056 They say, well, is this a stage? 00:11:34.206 --> 00:11:36.636 Is this just like what a kid is going through? 00:11:36.636 --> 00:11:40.116 And I'm, I don't know when something is more serious. 00:11:40.206 --> 00:11:45.726 Um, we have a lot of resources on our website about that, but, but the big overall picture, I would say is. 00:11:46.061 --> 00:11:50.261 To notice changes over a a significant period of time. 00:11:50.261 --> 00:12:05.201 So if a child is not sleeping for two weeks or more, or they are complaining of belly aches, they're coming home from school a lot, but they're not necessarily physically ill, that might be a manifestation of something else going on. 00:12:05.561 --> 00:12:09.341 So knowing what to look for and then how to start those conversations. 00:12:10.206 --> 00:12:15.336 I'm rambling a little bit, but one of the best ways to start a conversation is before you've noticed anything. 00:12:15.336 --> 00:12:24.906 So when you know, having, you pick your kid up from school, um, asking questions, gets the conversation going. 00:12:24.906 --> 00:12:32.166 In the, in the backseat of the car, there's something about, uh, not being across, looking at a cross, uh, from a kid. 00:12:33.081 --> 00:12:34.731 Like being side by side. 00:12:34.731 --> 00:12:37.791 You can't see me doing this, I'm listeners. 00:12:37.791 --> 00:12:48.561 But if you're next to someone, like on a bench or in a car, it is a much more comfortable space to start asking those questions about mental health and about, um, concerns you might be having. 00:12:48.561 --> 00:12:50.181 It's just a little less intense. 00:12:50.541 --> 00:12:56.631 Uh, so getting those conversations started early, and I think with books it marks you. 00:12:56.721 --> 00:12:59.241 If you're reading aloud to your child, it marks you as. 00:13:00.066 --> 00:13:10.236 Reading a lot of books that, that are array of different topics, covering a lot of different issues from different perspectives that marks you as somebody that they can come and talk to about anything. 00:13:11.256 --> 00:13:19.716 I'm curious from, from you, you know, what impact does, uh, an adult reading aloud to a child have? 00:13:20.511 --> 00:13:20.841 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: Yeah. 00:13:20.841 --> 00:13:21.591 I love that. 00:13:21.621 --> 00:13:36.261 Um, and I think you made an excellent point that though, 'cause I, I was a teacher for a long time, even though as a teacher, um, you might think my role is to teach reading or my role is to teach science. 00:13:36.291 --> 00:13:42.261 Um, it's really a lot different than that when you put on a teacher's hat, well, you wear many hats as a teacher. 00:13:42.531 --> 00:13:44.721 Um, you, you do become. 00:13:45.116 --> 00:13:46.466 A safe adult for a child. 00:13:46.466 --> 00:13:51.116 And I love that simple tip of just sitting next to someone side by side. 00:13:51.236 --> 00:13:55.016 I've heard a lot about, um, making eye level with a child. 00:13:55.016 --> 00:13:58.436 So especially a child who's shorter than you, getting down eye level. 00:13:58.436 --> 00:14:00.236 And I, but I never thought about sitting. 00:14:00.236 --> 00:14:05.396 I. Um, side by side, which is a great way to, um, read books with children. 00:14:05.396 --> 00:14:06.206 So thank you for that. 00:14:06.206 --> 00:14:15.086 But yeah, reading aloud to Children is a great way, um, to begin conversations about mental health for a variety of reasons. 00:14:15.086 --> 00:14:21.656 I will say, first of all, if as a teacher reading aloud to a class, um, I think it fights stigma. 00:14:21.956 --> 00:14:22.496 Um. 00:14:23.136 --> 00:14:26.766 I have this, uh, phrase that I've used before, uh, with kids. 00:14:26.826 --> 00:14:28.596 Na, uh, name it to tame it. 00:14:28.866 --> 00:14:36.306 Um, if you can put a name to something, it often helps, uh, you to identify with it and overcome it or work with it. 00:14:36.756 --> 00:14:40.716 Um, and you know, I have a lot of great books that I can recommend. 00:14:40.716 --> 00:14:41.616 I'll share a few. 00:14:41.616 --> 00:14:46.056 We also have, uh, uh, reading is Fundamental, has a wellbeing, um, center. 00:14:46.376 --> 00:14:51.416 On our website where we have a ton of books and resources, just like what you were me, uh, mentioning. 00:14:51.416 --> 00:14:59.906 So we have read aloud guides, we have curated book collections that can support, uh, teachers reading aloud about mental health and wellbeing. 00:15:00.206 --> 00:15:06.566 Um, but one that comes to mind is, um, think thinking about naming things is this, uh, book. 00:15:06.566 --> 00:15:07.226 It's a newer book. 00:15:07.226 --> 00:15:09.116 It's called How to Train Your Amygdala. 00:15:09.596 --> 00:15:10.166 Um. 00:15:11.346 --> 00:15:17.316 amygdala is a fun word to say, um, for, for kids, but it's also a, a part of your brain. 00:15:17.316 --> 00:15:22.146 It's that like fear center of your brain or that fight or flight part of your brain. 00:15:22.146 --> 00:15:35.856 And I love this story because the book kind of personifies the amygdala and throughout the story, um, these children are kind of going on an adventure with the amygdala, um, to, to try to, uh. 00:15:36.221 --> 00:15:38.261 Teach the amygdala how to calm down. 00:15:38.261 --> 00:15:41.681 And the book goes through a lot like you were talking about, um, mindfulness. 00:15:41.681 --> 00:15:43.511 It goes through a lot of different strategies. 00:15:43.511 --> 00:15:45.071 So it's fun. 00:15:45.311 --> 00:15:47.021 Um, it brings it to life for the kids. 00:15:47.021 --> 00:15:50.381 It gives a name to something and it gives them some strategies. 00:15:50.801 --> 00:15:53.801 And I actually, so kids can do that through reading books. 00:15:53.801 --> 00:15:55.541 They can also do it through writing. 00:15:55.571 --> 00:16:01.931 Um, I had, when I taught, first grade, I had a young student with OCD. 00:16:02.421 --> 00:16:10.461 Um, and her mom and I were, or her parents and I were working, um, together, you know, in constant communication of how to support her at school. 00:16:10.821 --> 00:16:20.631 Um, but one day just in writer's workshop, she wrote this wonderful story and, and I've held onto it all these, uh, years 'cause it was so brilliant where she. 00:16:20.871 --> 00:16:24.621 Created her OCD as a character in the story. 00:16:24.981 --> 00:16:32.151 So I think for her it was like taking that as a part of her, making it a separate part of her, giving it a name. 00:16:32.271 --> 00:16:47.991 And the whole book was actually teaching her classmates about this, I'll call it a character of OCD and how they can help her, um, with her OCD very much in the same way the author of the, uh, amygdala book did it, and it, and it was just so brilliant. 00:16:47.991 --> 00:16:50.061 So kids can do this through reading aloud. 00:16:50.271 --> 00:16:52.581 Or through writing their own stories, 00:16:53.866 --> 00:16:55.636 barb-solish--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_151404: That is so incredible. 00:16:55.636 --> 00:16:58.006 And what age was this child, did you say? 00:16:58.161 --> 00:16:59.451 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: like six years old. 00:17:00.216 --> 00:17:02.736 barb-solish--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_151404: Wow, that's a wow. 00:17:02.826 --> 00:17:04.836 Um, I mean, name entertainment, that and that. 00:17:05.316 --> 00:17:06.966 I love that, first of all. 00:17:06.966 --> 00:17:12.426 And it does, you know, bring up that things start before age 14, 00:17:12.686 --> 00:17:13.106 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: Mm-hmm. 00:17:13.116 --> 00:17:15.426 barb-solish--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_151404: people are not thinking about six year olds. 00:17:15.456 --> 00:17:26.526 Um, with some of these conditions or facing some of these challenges and for, for this child to have an educator like you so helpful is just, that's a lucky kid. 00:17:26.526 --> 00:17:32.947 And we, we, um, are so grateful for educators out there who understand the impact that mental health. 00:17:33.756 --> 00:17:40.626 Has, um, on children and, and, and how it manifests in different ways and how they can be creative in different ways. 00:17:40.626 --> 00:17:43.926 Like you said, like some may read, some may write, some may draw. 00:17:44.196 --> 00:17:51.156 Um, and understanding all of the, the pieces together is really, really interesting. 00:17:51.606 --> 00:17:54.276 Um, so I, I really love that, that story. 00:17:54.276 --> 00:17:56.736 I think there's a lot more, um. 00:17:57.936 --> 00:18:10.296 out there, and I mean like four kids literature, not, uh, not studies literature, but, uh, that addresses mental health and, um, identifying emotions because like you said, name entertainment. 00:18:10.296 --> 00:18:14.676 We, we actually, as I mentioned, we have a lot of affiliates across the country. 00:18:14.676 --> 00:18:21.306 So it's, it's, we're NAMI National, but we have, you know, nami, Los Angeles, west Side, you know, those example. 00:18:21.606 --> 00:18:23.196 Um, and. 00:18:24.186 --> 00:18:27.996 did a survey to ask, what are schools asking you? 00:18:28.026 --> 00:18:35.016 Local nami, so NAMI dc What are the folks in DC asking you to come talk to your kid, to the their kids about? 00:18:35.406 --> 00:18:39.816 And um, it was all about identifying emotions and coping skills. 00:18:40.146 --> 00:18:45.486 I mean, it was just, that was the resounding, um, theme that we got. 00:18:45.516 --> 00:18:48.906 Um, especially for those under the age of 14. 00:18:48.906 --> 00:18:50.586 When you get into middle school and high school. 00:18:50.616 --> 00:18:54.126 We're talking a little bit more about what we call mental health literacy. 00:18:54.486 --> 00:19:04.776 Um, so really combining our, our missions here, um, and mental health literacy is understanding what mental health conditions are and aren't. 00:19:04.776 --> 00:19:06.426 So a little bit more of the like. 00:19:06.756 --> 00:19:16.896 Health education piece of it, um, which I also think is really important and can be so well supplemented by story and storytelling. 00:19:17.976 --> 00:19:18.816 Um, yeah. 00:19:18.816 --> 00:19:37.491 NAMI actually has a. High, middle and high school program where we come into classrooms and we do sort of like a mental health 1 0 1 basics, but we always bring in a young adult presenter who's experienced a mental health concern while they were in middle or high school, and they tell their story. 00:19:37.581 --> 00:19:38.871 They say what happened? 00:19:39.291 --> 00:19:42.051 Um, what helped, and where am I now? 00:19:42.831 --> 00:19:47.001 And while it's very important that they get all the mental health 1 0 1 information. 00:19:47.856 --> 00:19:51.486 Always, always, always, we hear, thank you for sharing your story. 00:19:51.486 --> 00:19:54.846 It made me feel like I could speak up and that I'm not alone. 00:19:54.846 --> 00:19:59.766 So I think first person storytelling is so important too. 00:19:59.826 --> 00:20:09.486 Um, I just, there's, there's so much power in going beyond the stats and the numbers that we both talked about at the, at the top, you know. 00:20:10.626 --> 00:20:21.406 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: Yes, and I, I, and both children's literature, but also as you mentioned, the literature, I am a researcher myself, so the stats, um, speak to me and I, you know, I just. 00:20:21.721 --> 00:20:32.971 Read everything I can get my hands on, uh, around the importance of reading aloud to your children, um, reading with children and, and mental well wellbeing. 00:20:32.971 --> 00:20:34.621 So, um, I love it. 00:20:34.621 --> 00:20:35.671 I can't get enough of it. 00:20:37.059 --> 00:20:44.499 barb-solish--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_151404: So how does you know a parent reading to a child at home support their mental health from your perspective? 00:20:45.149 --> 00:20:45.569 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: Ooh. 00:20:45.989 --> 00:20:47.609 Um, great question. 00:20:47.609 --> 00:20:53.819 So this is something I'm getting more and more into actually, especially 'cause I have three young children myself. 00:20:53.819 --> 00:21:00.419 One of which is, uh, an infant, um, is about mothers reading aloud to their children. 00:21:00.629 --> 00:21:03.119 Um, and how that not only supports. 00:21:03.509 --> 00:21:08.999 The mental wellbeing of the child and their literacy development and their language development. 00:21:08.999 --> 00:21:11.699 But it actually supports the mother too. 00:21:11.699 --> 00:21:13.529 So I was just reading this the other day. 00:21:13.769 --> 00:21:16.259 There's a small, it's, it's a small study. 00:21:16.529 --> 00:21:22.049 Um, but there was a student, uh, Susan Alma Road is her name at University of Virginia. 00:21:22.394 --> 00:21:24.104 Um, in the nursing school there. 00:21:24.104 --> 00:21:27.944 And while she was doing her, um, studies there, I'm sure she's not a student anymore. 00:21:28.274 --> 00:21:31.994 Um, she was working with, um, NICU mothers. 00:21:32.204 --> 00:21:35.834 Um, so she had this group of mothers whose infants were in the nicu. 00:21:36.134 --> 00:21:41.564 Um, and she had them read aloud to their infants every day for about 30 minutes, I believe. 00:21:42.314 --> 00:21:45.614 what she found through, uh, her research was that. 00:21:46.364 --> 00:21:53.264 Those mothers who read aloud to their children, to their infants in the nicu, and you think, why would you read aloud to a a baby? 00:21:53.264 --> 00:21:54.584 They don't, they don't know. 00:21:54.854 --> 00:22:00.374 Um, but it actually lowered their rates of postpartum depression and stress. 00:22:00.554 --> 00:22:08.384 And already mothers who have infants in the NICU have statistically higher rates of, um, postpartum depression and, and stress. 00:22:08.384 --> 00:22:12.704 So the simple act of reading aloud for about 30 minutes. 00:22:12.709 --> 00:22:15.229 Every day was able to lower that. 00:22:15.229 --> 00:22:22.339 And uh, you know, I can't speak to the why, but I keep going back to the image of that you gave us of sitting next to a child and reading. 00:22:22.339 --> 00:22:26.089 I think it's about building, um, building connections. 00:22:26.419 --> 00:22:33.799 And even as silly as it sounds, reading aloud to your baby while they're in the womb, you know, they recognize your voice. 00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:36.019 And that's the beginning of the connection. 00:22:36.019 --> 00:22:42.049 And, uh, beginning of, um, language, and this might be slightly off topic, but. 00:22:42.539 --> 00:22:53.909 Speaking of language development, children are already born recognizing your voice and they're born tuned into the language, um, that you are speaking. 00:22:53.909 --> 00:22:55.649 So English is my native language. 00:22:55.649 --> 00:23:02.159 I spoke English the whole time I was pregnant, and my son and I witnessed this actually the other day when I went to go pick him up. 00:23:02.369 --> 00:23:08.249 Um, he was sitting in the lap of one of his teachers and the two teachers were speaking Spanish to each other. 00:23:08.489 --> 00:23:10.829 And he was just staring like mesmerized. 00:23:11.249 --> 00:23:22.799 And the research shows that even infants can recognize when different languages are being spoken because they're so in tuned with the language that they've heard, um, from the moment, you know, they were in, in the womb. 00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:28.979 Um, and so witnessing, you know, I read the research on it, but witnessing it with my own eyes was pretty powerful for me. 00:23:28.979 --> 00:23:34.709 Of course, he wasn't sitting there saying, these teachers are speaking Spanish, but it was very clear to me that he could recognize. 00:23:35.399 --> 00:23:38.954 Uh, the language they were speaking was different than the language he hears at home. 00:23:40.364 --> 00:23:42.014 barb-solish--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_151404: That's so incredible. 00:23:42.044 --> 00:23:46.784 And I, the, the study references is so important. 00:23:46.874 --> 00:23:55.544 I mean, we talk, you know, nami, we talk about young people, but we also support people of all ages with mental health concerns and, and new parents really can struggle. 00:23:56.569 --> 00:24:01.574 And so just even having that one little piece of, um, information is so important. 00:24:01.574 --> 00:24:04.574 And I think, and I agree with you. 00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:08.699 That I would guess, again, I don't know, but it's about connection. 00:24:09.089 --> 00:24:15.419 Um, it's about building, you know, I think I, I also have a young child. 00:24:15.419 --> 00:24:21.329 I have a 2-year-old, and for me, routine is really, really important with with myself and with her. 00:24:21.569 --> 00:24:26.009 So I think about building routine, about trust, about safety. 00:24:26.009 --> 00:24:29.489 So if you're reading every day at a certain time for a certain amount. 00:24:29.774 --> 00:24:47.504 Amount of time that can really build consistency and, and that connection and trust and it, and I think it gives, it gives me, at least as a parent, a, a chance to model, uh, you know, emotional intelligence and empathy. 00:24:47.684 --> 00:24:55.394 So when I'm reading a story and, and the bear has his, it gets stung by a bee, I can say, oh, the bear got stung by a bee. 00:24:55.394 --> 00:24:56.324 That hurts. 00:24:56.624 --> 00:24:57.344 You know, and it. 00:24:57.764 --> 00:25:00.254 And the mama bear comes and helps or whatever. 00:25:01.004 --> 00:25:06.794 But I think it models and it lets you know, your child know, you know, we can talk about anything here. 00:25:06.794 --> 00:25:09.104 If something hurts, we're here to talk about it. 00:25:09.224 --> 00:25:12.824 Um, we're here for each other 'cause we've built this connection. 00:25:12.824 --> 00:25:15.794 And starting young is, it's just like everything. 00:25:15.794 --> 00:25:20.114 It's just the early intervention matters so, so much. 00:25:20.204 --> 00:25:23.834 Um, I can, I totally resonate. 00:25:23.864 --> 00:25:26.329 That really resonated with me, that story of the nicu. 00:25:28.054 --> 00:25:34.879 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: And I will certainly share the link to that for you, Jethro, so you could include it in the uh, show notes. 00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:38.219 barb-solish--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_151404: And for me to read, I wanna read that. 00:25:39.794 --> 00:25:47.174 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: Yeah, so because I have an infant, I'm more and more of course into learning about reading to, to babies and toddlers. 00:25:47.174 --> 00:25:54.734 And as you mentioned, reading to a baby or toddler may be a different experience, um, than reading to an older child. 00:25:54.734 --> 00:25:59.264 And that's something that I think, um, parents need to be aware of. 00:25:59.534 --> 00:26:02.444 And maybe that just knowing that will help. 00:26:03.449 --> 00:26:07.229 Reduce the stress of reading and make them be able to do it more and more. 00:26:07.229 --> 00:26:12.839 'cause I, I don't know about you, but I also have, uh, a toddler who's a very, who's very wiggly. 00:26:12.839 --> 00:26:18.239 So when we sit down to read a book, might not look like what you would typically read, a book. 00:26:18.239 --> 00:26:24.629 You might not, um, start from the beginning and go to the end, um, and read every word on the page. 00:26:24.629 --> 00:26:27.659 So if you remove that stress for parents knowing. 00:26:28.484 --> 00:26:30.764 Just sitting down and looking at the book together. 00:26:30.914 --> 00:26:33.434 Maybe your child's flipping through all the pages. 00:26:33.674 --> 00:26:35.804 He likes the lion in polar bear. 00:26:35.804 --> 00:26:36.284 Polar bear. 00:26:36.284 --> 00:26:36.944 What do I hear? 00:26:36.944 --> 00:26:38.324 So, or what do you hear? 00:26:38.324 --> 00:26:44.594 So we're gonna flip back to the lion a bajillion times, but that's a great opportunity to, um, add some language about it. 00:26:44.594 --> 00:26:47.054 Like, oh, I see you like the lion. 00:26:47.274 --> 00:26:49.194 Um, you know, what does the lion say? 00:26:49.194 --> 00:26:54.564 And, you know, we're learning things like likes and, and dislikes, very simple concepts. 00:26:54.804 --> 00:27:06.594 Um, that if you remove that stress of I have to get through every page, I have to get through every word on the page, maybe parents just hearing that I hope will help encourage them to read with their young children. 00:27:07.874 --> 00:27:11.834 barb-solish--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_151404: And that reminds me of what you said at the very beginning of making it fun. 00:27:11.894 --> 00:27:13.814 Um, if you put too much pressure on yourself. 00:27:13.814 --> 00:27:19.814 So as a parent, I know I put a lot of pressure on myself so I can, know, you, you want the best for your kid. 00:27:20.024 --> 00:27:27.134 So to, to relieve yourself of the pressure of getting through every page or making it a perfect experience. 00:27:28.214 --> 00:27:43.874 More just the presence is, is important being there, um, going through that book making maybe that if they, if they do like the lion, focusing on the fun there, and then maybe in a year they come back and there's more to it. 00:27:44.294 --> 00:27:48.284 Um, so I really, that really makes a lot of sense and is a great connection. 00:27:48.284 --> 00:27:49.874 Back to what you said at the beginning. 00:27:52.529 --> 00:27:56.009 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: We can use books in different, in different ways. 00:27:56.009 --> 00:28:07.229 As you said, maybe in a year you read the whole book, but in the beginning, maybe it's just looking at the pictures, maybe it's just pointing to the picture and naming what's in the picture on each page. 00:28:07.469 --> 00:28:10.229 Um, maybe you just look at the, at the one page, but. 00:28:10.444 --> 00:28:15.454 You can always go back to a book again and again and, and learn new lessons with it. 00:28:15.454 --> 00:28:23.824 It's like, uh, if you have a, a movie that you like to watch over and over again, you get something a little bit different out of it every time we hope. 00:28:25.034 --> 00:28:26.114 barb-solish--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_151404: Yeah, I love that. 00:28:26.114 --> 00:28:26.984 It's so true. 00:28:26.984 --> 00:28:38.294 I mean, as we have some of the same books from when, you know, my daughter was first born that we're reading now and you know, it was colors at one point and now it's, does the bear need a hug? 00:28:38.354 --> 00:28:42.074 Uh, it's a very different concept, but eventually you get there and. 00:28:42.464 --> 00:28:46.334 You try to make it, make it fun, and then, and then learn throughout it. 00:28:46.334 --> 00:28:51.764 And that's, that's what we're trying to get at and, and trying to keep this supportive environment for kids. 00:28:51.764 --> 00:29:00.284 Because as we were saying, you know, the connection, the routine, the fun, um, all builds a better support system for them. 00:29:00.344 --> 00:29:03.734 Um, especially if they face challenges like with their mental health. 00:29:03.854 --> 00:29:07.274 Um, they know who to go to and who's safe and, and how to ask for help. 00:29:09.349 --> 00:29:18.649 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: Yeah, I love that is not typically a word anyone associates with reading or books, but I know that to be very true. 00:29:18.649 --> 00:29:18.709 I. 00:29:19.578 --> 00:29:19.968 jethro_1_06-18-2025_121340: Okay. 00:29:19.998 --> 00:29:21.528 Wasn't that a great conversation? 00:29:21.648 --> 00:29:25.458 I am so glad that these two ladies wanted to try something new. 00:29:25.788 --> 00:29:39.138 In my next two episodes, I'm going to be interviewing them individually, but we wanted to try a little different approach and have these two titans take up the pretty much the whole time of the podcast and be able to share that. 00:29:39.348 --> 00:29:41.838 So tell me what you think about this format. 00:29:41.868 --> 00:29:42.858 Is this worthwhile? 00:29:42.858 --> 00:29:44.778 Was this weird, different. 00:29:45.318 --> 00:29:45.858 I don't know. 00:29:45.888 --> 00:29:46.908 I want to hear your thoughts. 00:29:46.908 --> 00:29:54.978 I like to try new things, and this seemed like a great time to try something, um, and, and give them both plenty of time to talk about what really matters to them. 00:29:55.158 --> 00:29:58.068 So I also want to thank Macy's for putting this together. 00:29:58.068 --> 00:30:04.698 Mason Macy's mission, everyone is a social commitment that focuses on creating a brighter future. 00:30:05.088 --> 00:30:07.758 And for the last 22 years, they've partnered with riff. 00:30:08.088 --> 00:30:18.978 To inspire a lifetime of reading, and they've provided over $47 million to bring over 17 million books for children in under-resourced communities nationwide. 00:30:19.488 --> 00:30:24.438 So you can be part of this and, and help with this now through September 14th. 00:30:24.438 --> 00:30:29.328 When you shop at Macy's, you can round up your Macy's purchase in the store to help. 00:30:29.328 --> 00:30:30.438 Reading is fundamental. 00:30:30.438 --> 00:30:34.158 Ensure that every child has the opportunity that literacy provides. 00:30:34.420 --> 00:30:43.930 erin-bailey--she-her-_1_06-18-2025_121353: So I will say now, for over 22 years, Macy's has partnered with reading as fundamental to help end the youth literacy crisis. 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:49.450 And I'm grateful that we're partnering with NAMI this year to also support the youth mental health crisis. 00:30:49.933 --> 00:30:59.343 jethro_1_06-18-2025_121340: Your Macy's purchase can help end the Youth Literacy Crisis shop in store to help riff empower youth to define their own bright futures through the power of books. 00:30:59.463 --> 00:31:02.793 Here's Aaron with a closing thought about Macy's. 00:31:04.352 --> 00:31:04.712 All right. 00:31:04.712 --> 00:31:10.142 Once again, I want to thank, uh, Macy's riff and NAMI for being part of this. 00:31:10.142 --> 00:31:11.193 If you want to hear more about. 00:31:12.062 --> 00:31:22.742 Macy's mission, everyone go to macy's dot com slash purpose and there are links to the show note in the show notes to everything that we talked about today at Transformative principle.org. 00:31:23.072 --> 00:31:26.282 Thank you so much for listening to Transformative principle today. 00:31:26.672 --> 00:31:27.722 Appreciate you being here.