James Dooley: Google AI Overviews. There are a lot of people in the SEO community all asking how they can get large language models like ChatGPT and Gemini within Google to start recommending their brand. A lot of people in the industry are saying that SEO and GEO are exactly the same thing. Today, I’m joined with Chris Munch from Amplifier. He’s been sharing quite a lot of success stories where he’s amplifying messaging across multiple platforms, so I wanted to get him on. Chris, pleased to meet you. It’s a pleasure to have you on.

Chris Munch: Thank you, James. Pleasure to be here.

James Dooley: With regards to Amplifier and trying to get the messaging out there so you can feed the LLMs and get them to cite you, what advice would you give people watching this? Some people are saying SEO and GEO are the same thing. What are your thoughts on that to start with?

Chris Munch: I think there are a lot of similarities. In the end, ChatGPT and AI Overviews function off two things. First is their knowledge base. They know everything that has been written. Then they search. Those are the two things they do. If you ask a science question or a maths question, it is going to use its knowledge base. If you ask what the best product is, for example if I am looking at a microphone and asking what the best microphone for podcasting is, then it is going to do a Google search. ChatGPT is supposed to use Bing, but they do not use Bing as much as they probably should considering the investment. They are using a lot of Google results from tests, and that has been shown. In the end, it is a slightly different interface for a search engine. So a lot of similar stuff from SEO carries over.

James Dooley: A lot does carry over with semantics, content and links, but there is a lot more now on consensus, off-page and building corroboration on third-party sources. Can you explain that a bit more for people watching this?

Chris Munch: Yes. I still think it is helpful to look at it as a search engine. The algorithms have just changed somewhat. You have had a flood of AI content hit the internet, and you also had issues around parasite SEO with a lot of junk being posted in all sorts of places. Google pushed back against that. One of the ways they approach it is they like to teach people a lesson. They make examples, maybe do an update that is a bit brutal, a lot of people get banned, and then they hope the industry figures out a better practice that is more in line with what they are looking for.

What does that mean for a brand or a website? One of the things they did is raise the bar massively on brand signals. That means things like brand search, which has always been a thing. Brand search has probably been a thing for maybe ten years, but it became more important. Links also became a bit more important, but in addition to links, the entity of the brand itself matters. Is it being mentioned?

You will notice if you start a new website, Google does not really understand what the name of your website is. You Google it and it might show random stuff. Then eventually, if you build a brand over time, you get the sitelinks where you have different options to sections of your site. That is Google starting to understand it as an entity. So you have the entity of your brand, but then you have the entity of the products you sell. You are trying to build up enough information online that Google and the LLMs see it as a real thing.

That is the first stage. It is going to be different in every industry in terms of what sources they pull from. The simple version is the more places you are talked about, the more reviews you have, the more links you have, and essentially the more places your brand is mentioned across social media, video and websites, the more likely you are to be picked up and referenced as a solution or a product in a given industry.

The way we approach this is if we start working with a brand, we ask how we can get the product talked about in as many different types of conversations, in as many different places as possible. We do that not from the perspective of random conversations, but from the perspective of conversations and questions that buyers would have. If you think about it, someone is going to go to an LLM, Google or YouTube and ask a question about a product or a problem where a product might be the solution. If the answer is not written or spoken somewhere on the internet, and it is not already in the knowledge base, how is the LLM going to pick it up? The information has to be present. You have to leave that clue.

If you think about any specific product, let’s say a microphone, there are loads of questions about it. There are audio levels, hertz, different styles, different sizes, whether it clips on, whether it stands up, whether it has a boom arm, and so on. There are very specific questions people have. When we dig into a specific product and really start looking into what questions people have, it goes much deeper than you would expect.

If you are selling a microphone, you might think there are just features, but there are not just features. There are competitors too. Every comparison to every other microphone or microphone brand is another thing people would research. People also use terms like best and top. Then there are use cases. In the microphone industry, people search for best microphone for Xbox, for Zoom, for podcasting. Even though it might be the same microphone, people search that specific use case. So you can literally have hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of questions in your industry.

Back in the SEO days, you could create an article answering a specific question, it would be lower competition, and you could rank for it. What happened with Google just before AI came out is that if you did a really specific topic, Google started to ignore those and place bigger websites that covered the topic more generally. I think Google saw that a lot of people were putting out very low-quality content answering very specific queries, basically junk, just as AI content was getting to that stage. So they said it was too difficult and too costly to filter out all of that noise for all those specific queries. They also felt people did not ask too many of these very specific queries anyway, so they would answer with a general article. If you searched for best microphone for Microsoft Teams, it would just give you an article on best microphones.

That was pre-AI. Now people get specific answers to that from ChatGPT and Google AI Overviews, and they now expect that answer. So Google has no choice but to start sourcing that sort of information. That left them with a difficult situation. They now need information for all these low-competition terms, but they know spammers are going to throw out junk content on all of these topics. How do they filter that? They levelled up the brand signals.

If you are a small site, it is going to be difficult to be seen. If you are a bigger site, it is going to be much easier to be picked up. That is where the magic starts to happen. You have to figure out how to make the brand more authoritative and how you can leverage other sites that are already big and trusted to feed that information in. That is essentially what we do.

James Dooley: On that point, you mentioned finding all the different queries. There is quite a lot of evidence now that shows the way people search in AI is very different from how they search in Google. Generally speaking, a study of over half a million Google queries showed an average word count of 4.2 words, but within AI it is nearly four times that amount. So they are asking things like what is the best microphone for Microsoft Teams, with this audio level, under £100. There are loads of caveats to what comes back. Are you trying to go after ridiculously long-tail queries? Are you using a tool to extrapolate synthetic queries and query fan-out? Are you looking at the ones that come back and saying these are the ones we are going to target because ChatGPT might do three or four synthetic queries, while Gemini might do eight to ten? Are you going through those and looking at case studies, awards, reviews, testimonials, legit versus scam, contradictory-type words as well? Are you just trying to go after every one of them and then syndicate that out in as many multi-model, multi-format places as possible?

Chris Munch: That is one way you could approach it, and we do that to an extent, but from a different angle. We are not looking at every possible combination someone might type into ChatGPT and then seeing what searches ChatGPT does underneath. Obviously there are the main ones. If you search for a product, ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews and Gemini are going to search for best and top lists, and they are going to search for reviews. So you want to make sure you do reviews and top lists, and we have seen they are very effective for driving traffic.

Overall though, the way we approach it is from the customer perspective. We really think about the research journey. This is the big contrast with how most SEOs approach it, and also how people in paid ads understand what is going on. If a paid ad is running, people are going to see the paid ad. The things you talk about in the ad, they are going to Google. They are going to Google the product name. They might Google the ingredients or the features you mention. You need to make sure you have that covered.

As a brand, you probably already know what your ads are talking about and what your competitors’ ads are talking about in terms of features and competitors. So we approach it from the perspective of what people are going to look for and search for. We use keyword tools in a very limited way. We are more focused on going on the journey ourselves and understanding how someone goes from having the problem, to discovering products, to comparing products and all the different things they might care about.

Price is one thing they care about, so you want to make sure you include that information. Quite often clients do not want to do that. They do not want to talk about prices, especially local businesses involved in local services where pricing can change. If they are a roofer, for example, they do not even want to mention what the price could be. So you have to persuade them. You need to talk about pricing and give a range on the website because that feeds information into the LLMs, which they can then pick up on, and then you can be referenced.

So it is looking across all those things. They are looking at pricing. They are doing comparisons between competitors. They are looking at specific use cases. We start stacking out all the different things they care about. If it is a microphone, they care about platforms like Teams and Zoom, so we list them all out. They care about pricing and specific price ranges. They compare certain products one to another. There are different types. You may even have things like colours and other features.

You dig into all of that, then you have all these combinations of things people might be looking for, and you want to make sure you place that information. With Google, you used to have a page optimised around a keyword phrase and some related phrases, and it could rank for that. With an LLM, you still have that, but you also have all the sections. You have FAQs and subheadings, and they are answering specific information.

In an article, the way you write matters. If it is blog content, natural language processing really just means writing more simply. It is not abstract. It is not persuasive. It is not storytelling. It is X is Y. That is cheap for Google and LLMs to process, so they give it preference. We have seen they like that type of content and tend to prefer it because it gives good, clear information. If you consistently use good data and do not conflict with the data already on your website, those are also little things which score you points with Google and LLMs when they decide whether to cite your information.

A lot of this is about answering lots of questions through your content. You can do that in a blog post, but Google and the AIs also like to check out social media. Can you answer those questions on social media? Can you put it in a YouTube Short, a YouTube long-form video? Can it be expressed in an image? Can it be expressed in a podcast? Google and ChatGPT look at all these different sources, and essentially you build up consensus as you post in more places.

You are also doing it for users. I like doing things that are for people anyway because then they have more longevity. If you do something purely to rank in the LLM or rank in Google, eventually that door might close. But if you do something that is useful for users, useful for Google, useful for the LLMs and useful for people, then that tends to work for a long time. Very simply, answering questions on your product and all the different things people might want to know is a good idea. Then ask whether people look across different platforms. Do they go on Instagram? Do they go on YouTube? Do they go on blogs, Google and podcasts? The answer is yes. People research across all sorts of different platforms now.

Google used to dominate, with maybe 90% of research done through Google. Now it is more like 25%, with the rest through YouTube, ChatGPT, Instagram and all the other places. You need to be on those places. What is interesting is Google’s share of the research pie has dropped to maybe 25%, but their traffic has grown. They have lost market share in terms of people searching and doing research, but they gain traffic because people are researching more than ever before.

From what you said about people searching with 10, 12 or 15 words in LLMs, that is happening in Google already. Google is just catching up because it is becoming an AI answer platform too. The two things are converging. What used to work for SEO now applies a lot to ChatGPT.

One place where I think SEOs have maybe gone a bit wrong is an over-reliance on technical stuff. There can be a list of 2,000 things wrong with a website in theory that are not good for SEO or the LLM, but it might only be ten things you really need to address that would drastically move the needle. Everything else either has no impact or a very small impact.

I think there is often too much emphasis on on-page stuff. In most cases, if you are using WordPress or Shopify, the optimisation is built into the platform. It is only when you get really big that you need to worry about the smaller technical things. So you just need the basics like meta titles, good linking structure and schema.

The schema is the straightforward product schema you would have on an e-commerce site. You want to make sure your Google Shopping feed is set up because ChatGPT and Google rely heavily on the shopping feed if you are a product. That helps them understand the entities, the product name, the pricing, and then they can put that in their database. ChatGPT and Google rely on that very heavily to give recommendations.

If you are an e-commerce site and you do not have that, you are going to miss out significantly because they do not fully trust or know what your product is or where it can be sold. There is a convergence towards making the purchase inside the app. You have TikTok Shop. TikTok prefers buying inside TikTok Shop. ChatGPT will soon prefer buying inside ChatGPT with the Shopify integration that is happening. If you are on Shopify, it will be very easy to do. If you are hooked into Google Shopping, it is going to naturally flow into that. If you are using something like Magento, which does not have that connection set up so easily, you may have to work on the schema a bit more because it is not naturally set up inside your theme. So the sooner you do that, the better if you are e-commerce.

You do not need to go excessive with schema. We had a medical client and they built all this advanced schema because they saw it on schema.org, but it is nothing used in the LLMs or Google. Arguably it does not make a difference. There is only so much schema that is used because it was abused in the past by SEOs who overdid it, so then Google stopped using it. They only rely on the most essential schema like product schema and some local schema.

James Dooley: That was going to be a follow-on question. I have a few quickfire questions here. Do you think schema is important to get into AI Overviews or not?

Chris Munch: We have seen that if it is a product query, a review or a comparison, then you can still show up very well in ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews, Gemini and Claude. Where schema starts to get important, especially in more competitive niches, is where the system starts recommending specific products.

One thing ChatGPT likes to do is encourage people to use the shopping research feature. When you switch to that, it wants to be able to send you to a page with a buy button, with pricing information, and where it is very certain on the information it has. It does not like that coming from a blog post. It also will not like it from a product page that is not structured well, where it cannot be certain of the discount and the price because it has to figure that out rather than having it explicitly stated in the code.

Certainly, as you get into specific product queries where it is recommending a product to purchase, you are going to run into issues. A real example would be Brian Johnson, the longevity guy. He uses certain devices. There is one device he clips on his ear and it lowers his HRV. If you ask ChatGPT which product he uses, it will give you an answer and source that information from a blog. But if you ask it to help you find a good deal on an HRV device, then it is going to do more of a Google Shopping-type search, and that is where it will look at product schema and say this product is at this price from this website. That is where you would miss out if you do not have it. So that is where we see it being most important. Product schema and making sure your Google Shopping feed is set up well.

James Dooley: For me, there are so many people in the communities saying schema is not needed, but it is mainly there for clarity and confidence. They need to understand exactly what something is and not just second guess it. Schema allows that, and it is cheap for them to process. They get the clarity and the confidence.

A few other questions. Listening to you, you were saying what people need to do now to get into AI Overviews is get the content from a blog article, put it into video format, long-form, short-form, maybe turn it into an image, share it out there, post it on social media and do a podcast. I am sat there thinking this is what people should have been doing ten years ago. It is just general branding and holistic marketing, being omni-channel and omni-present. I feel like SEOs were so backwards then. They were obsessed with keywords on a page and not doing what a real brand would do by sharing things in all these places. It just feels like now SEOs are having to catch up with general marketing. Would you agree?

Chris Munch: Yes, I would say that is true. When you look at the cause of that, it is because SEOs could get away with not doing those things. If you do not have to build a brand and do not have to be everywhere, but you can still get a lot of traffic, then people did not do it because they did not have to. Eventually the algorithms caught up and changed. It became a case of needing to be a brand, otherwise Google could not trust you because there was too much spam.

Now you have to do all the usual marketing stuff, and that is true. The challenge is that if you are a relatively small brand, seven figures or eight figures, it is difficult to be on every channel. Even if you are doing eight figures as an e-commerce site and have a team, how many people do you need to cover LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, blogging, podcasting and all of these different things? That is a lot of work. It is beyond what most brands are capable of. If you are a nine-figure company, sure, you can have an entire social team and an entire content team, but it gets more challenging when you are smaller.

There are some AI solutions where you can say you are going to do an AI blog because you do not have the resources, so you will use software, press a button and generate a load of topics. The challenge with that is that in 99% of cases, you will actually cause your traffic to go down if you do not know what you are doing.

If you rely on ChatGPT to write your content, it is going to create content that is generic and not that good. From a common-sense point of view, if anyone can go to ChatGPT and say write an article on this topic and it just does it, then everybody has that same information. Google does appear to have a way of figuring that out when it is done too much. If you do it once or twice on your website, no big deal. If you consistently do that on your site, we see this over and over. It works at the beginning and the traffic graph goes up, but then Google thinks the content does not seem to be good quality. It does not compete very well with other topics and shows some low-quality signals. Not necessarily a signal that it is AI, but a signal that it is low quality.

There are low-quality AI signals and then there is AI content which can be detected but is not low quality. An example would be the word navigating, like navigating the digital landscape. If you search that phrase, you will find thousands of pages written with that title or phrase. A good writer would not usually use that. It is overused and not good. There are many signals like that which show no editor is looking at it. The title is bland and there is a lot of fluff. Google can detect that, and over time that stuff gets filtered out.

One of the ways Google has dealt with this is rather than trying to figure out what is good and what is bad on a page-by-page basis, if it sees the quality on the website drop below a certain threshold, it says you are done and punishes the majority of the site. This actually happened to Jasper.ai using their own software. Their traffic was going up and then it absolutely tanked in Google because they were putting out content that might look okay to a reader, but it is not the type of stuff Google is looking for.

That is another thing to be careful of. The content has to be useful, add value, add information, add data and match the right format for the medium. There is a way to write a blog post, and you cannot just take a blog post and turn it into a video, then have someone reading the script of a blog post, because it is not the right format. It will not work. It will not get the engagement time. In a blog post, you give the answer immediately. In a video, you might delay the answer slightly to improve watch time and engagement. That is just one example.

When you repurpose across all these mediums, you have to think about all of that. That is a big problem. Sure, you can churn out content that goes everywhere, but it will not be effective unless it works for the algorithm and for people on those platforms. Like you said, James, now you have to build a brand. Everyone is aware of that. You have to be omni-present and everywhere. There is not a good solution other than working very hard and trying to be on every platform, but each platform is so different that it is difficult for any one person to do it all.

In our platform, we have structured it so that each module and each piece of content that goes to these different places is optimised towards the algorithm and for how content should work on social media, in a YouTube Short, in a YouTube long-form video and so on. That is the direction you have to go in. If you are a smaller brand, you are going to have to use automation to be present in all these places. You are going to have to use AI because otherwise it is just too much work for a brand to compete.

James Dooley: I want to get into that a little bit. I do not want this to be a full-on sales pitch and say everyone just needs to go to Amplifier and that is it. However, you have got my attention. You have sent quite a few statuses about Google AI Overviews and being able to get in there. You are talking about multi-format, so image, video, podcast and so on. Let’s do a bit of role play. I am a roofer and I have not got the time to learn the LinkedIn algorithm, Instagram algorithm, YouTube Shorts, long-form YouTube videos, podcasting and all the rest of it. If that roofer came to Amplifier, how does that work? They might not want to do podcasting. Are you doing that with AI voice agents? What can you do for a roofer within Amplifier?

Chris Munch: Sure. This is true for any brand. You are going to have a certain amount of resources and time available, so then it becomes a choice. What we do is this. If you are into marketing and have some time, you can do this as DIY. You can come in and use our platform. It does not take long. If you are just going to take the output that is given, then in about two minutes you can pick a topic using some of our tools that help with the research, include some of the information you want included either from your own research, which you can do very quickly, then press a button and it creates all the different content formats for you. You can then review them, edit them and put them out.

Realistically, somewhere between twenty minutes and an hour, you can create all those formats, review them and publish them because we have a good hit rate on content quality if you know how to use the platform. It is realistic that someone can come in and post once per day. We are actually seeing that brands posting once per day see really significant uplifts in sales. For some brands, one piece of content per day put out across the channels can add seven figures in sales. That is not unusual. That is pretty common and the return is really good.

The second option is that if you do not want to spend that twenty minutes to an hour editing, our team can do that. They create the content using our platform, do the editing and optimisation, make sure it is clean and the data is right. That is the second level.

Then the third level is pure agency service where we handle the entire strategy. If they have the budget for it and they do not want to be involved, or only want minimal involvement, then we do all the planning around the right topics and all the strategy, plus a few other things, and we handle the entire process.

James Dooley: Let me repeat that just to make sure I have got it right. Are all three of those services under the same brand of Amplifier?

Chris Munch: Yes.

James Dooley: Right. So you have the software, which creates all the formats.

Chris Munch: Essentially, yes. We have the Amplifier agency where we can deliver the entire service and handle everything. You can use the software, you can have us use the software for you where you just order the topics, or we can handle the entire thing. We come up with the topics, the strategy, check your website for optimisation issues and all the rest of it.

James Dooley: So the first one is SaaS. They can go in themselves, use it, get the information and syndicate that out. The second is a service. The third is full agency, where you take care of it all. Let’s say I am the roofer and I say I do not want to get involved. I am a roofer. Just get me more roofing leads. How are you creating videos and podcasts and that kind of thing? Are you asking them what they want to talk about and then getting an actor to do that part, or how does that work?

Chris Munch: No. We would educate them on what we should talk about. The biggest reason a client fails is usually down to the client, either blocking the content or trying to dictate the process of what topics we should do, because they do not fully understand the process.

When we bring a client in, we make sure we are on the same page. We explain what we do and what we like to lead on, and we encourage them to step back and not be overly involved because we are often doing such volume of content that it does not make sense for an owner to be reviewing it all. That is tens of thousands of words and it is not a good use of their time.

We handle the entire thing. We come up with the topics and try to learn from them. What information do you have? What are the product prices? What are the brand guidelines? Quite often they do not have those things organised, so we help organise that with them. Then the platform itself creates all of the content. We are not hiring an actor to do the podcast. The podcast is AI.

You might say you would never listen to an AI podcast, and that may be true for some people. But a lot of people say they ignore adverts too, and then eventually they buy something because an advert happened to be exactly what they were interested in. You will watch an AI video from time to time and maybe not realise it is AI, or it just happens to have the information you were looking for.

If you are doing a podcast like this one, it makes less sense to do it with AI. But if someone is researching a product and has a very specific question and prefers to listen or watch a video, the choice is either that content does not exist, or there is an AI version that is good quality, well scripted and gives the exact answer. Personally, I would prefer to watch a more engaging video than have no answer at all.

The technology is getting better and better. These things are becoming more engaging, more lifelike and more real. We approach it from that perspective. It is a product question, not entertainment. The bar on quality is a little lower. It is about the script, the information, being engaging and having good visuals. You do not necessarily need a presenter doing that for every topic.

In the end, it works. We put that content out in a lot of places. If it gives a good answer and is well scripted, then people will listen to it. It gives people the answers. It is about making sure you are putting stuff out that serves a purpose and adds value, rather than content that nobody will listen to but which feeds the LLM. That is the wrong way to think about it. You want something actually scripted well that people would be willing to listen to.

James Dooley: I completely agree. If it is a choice between it not being there at all or it being there, then it is better for it to be there if someone wants to physically listen. A lot of people do not even realise now when something is AI because the voice agents are getting so good.

We ran some tests. Obviously we are both here and clearly real, but I tested certain people who had their own podcast and there was just so much fluff in there. Then they did an AI podcast, a full podcast series, and it ended up getting so much more engagement. It was half the time, more information-dense, like a five-minute podcast instead of a twenty-five-minute podcast, and people actually preferred it because it removed all the fluff and was factual and direct. You are seeing more and more of that over time.

Chris Munch: It is quite sad when an AI version of yourself beats you. But yes, that is the direction it is going. I still see people using their own AI avatar on channels. They appear sometimes themselves, but fill the channel with a lot of AI avatar content. It is quick, fast-paced, and they can cover so much more news than they could possibly do if they were creating it themselves because it is just too much volume.

James Dooley: Do you know Julian Gold?

Chris Munch: Yes.

James Dooley: He has six AI channels and two of them outperform him. Sometimes he messages me frustrated saying the AI version of him is better than him. For some topics it is so true. For others, people do not want that. But for some, that is exactly what people want. They just want quick, in-and-out information.

I want to wrap it up now, but I want to do one or two quickfire questions, putting a spin on Amplifier and on the idea of holistic marketing. You want to be out there and influence the AI Overviews to get the answers and get AI to start recommending you. You talk a lot about multi-format, so image, video, podcast, maybe PDF sharing, text-based content and so on. Is there any format you believe works best? I know the answer is do it all, but if someone could not do everything and had to choose between image, video, text, PDF and listicles, what are you finding works best specifically to get brands into AI Overviews?

Chris Munch: That is a really good question. I think one of the easiest ones to start with is text article content on your site. Providing you have got to a certain threshold of authority, at a certain point you can just answer more questions about your product and industry. If you do that regularly, at least once a day, and the quality is there, then you are going to see organic traffic increase because you are answering questions buyers have and, hopefully, covering topics that have not already been done to death. Topic planning is important.

That is easy because it is fast to create that type of content and it works well. Video is the second one. The challenge with video is actually building the following and growing the channel well enough. Videos do not feed the AI quite as well as textual content does. We are seeing that blog content is really, really good.

Because blog content is relatively low-cost, very fast and very scalable, we will often do more blog content than the other types. We might do five to ten blog posts, then pick one of them that we are going to amplify and do all the other formats for. So you do ten, then pick the one you think will do best, or based on the data, the one that is already performing well, where you can see the volume is there, people are asking the question, it is showing up in answers and driving traffic. Then you cover that one across all the other modules.

I would say blog or article content first, especially around competitors. Competitor comparisons, competitor reviews, pricing and best-of lists. They seem like a weird thing to put on your own website because you are mentioning a competitor, but you are not advertising those posts on the homepage and saying go and check out our comparison to the competitor. It is hidden in the blog. Users do not typically find it when they come to your website, but they do find it when they go to Google and start researching your competitors and making those comparisons. A big proportion of people do that. We see massive gains from product comparisons, product reviews and top lists. They show up in LLMs really well, drive a lot of traffic and convert highly because they are bottom of funnel.

James Dooley: With regards to listicles, are you doing self-referencing listicles, so putting yourself on your own site as number one and then competitors below? A few people were moaning about that. I know it still works well in a lot of cases, but quite a few sites seem to have been hit when they were self-referencing in listicles. Have you seen that anywhere?

Chris Munch: I have not seen that or noticed it. I think the key is to remain as impartial as you can. If you are going to do a top list, be fair to your competition. Do not slander them and do not make stuff up. Make it very useful.

It may just be because of the type of content we do, but because it is useful, and because we are not saying the competitor is terrible, and are actually saying good things about them, we have not seen an issue with that. What we are essentially doing is saying this is our product, this is our place in the market, we are good at these certain things, and people buy us for these certain reasons. You present those reasons and that positioning, and you might say we are the best budget choice, the best high-end choice, the best choice for podcasting or whatever it might be. But there is good evidence and reasoning behind that. So far, I have not seen an issue with it.

James Dooley: What about syndication for image sharing or PDF sharing? Are you doing any of that, like grabbing an image of a review or testimonial, putting a logo on it, then syndicating it everywhere? If you are, how are you getting Googlebot to crawl it? Are you putting them into an indexer or something?

Chris Munch: Yes, we do PDF content, but not just for the sake of making a PDF. One of the content formats is a flipbook, which can fit a slideshow format or a PDF format, and then we publish it to those sites.

I am not so worried about Google indexing every one of them. It is more about whether you should make that content format and whether it should be available to people. It has to be useful. Then just put it out there. Sometimes Google will have a preference for podcast, sometimes for PDF, sometimes for article content. That is not my main concern. The point is Google has all the options, and all the different platforms have all the options of the different content. Then the platforms, the algorithms and the users can find that. So I do not worry about it too much.

What we do see is that if we do a flipbook and it has good information answering the question people are asking, like a comparison or best product or a specific use case, then it is out there somewhere. We might publish it to ten or fifteen sites that host that flipbook. Maybe ten do not get indexed. Maybe fourteen do not get indexed and only one does. But you only need one that is indexed and findable, and then it has a positive impact and feeds the LLMs.

We also see that one week Google might like one website or one content type, then six months later it likes something else. You do not need to worry too much about a site being penalised and Google not liking it anymore. Whenever there are penalties, people forget that Google is taking traffic away from one place but giving it to somewhere else. When you do this strategy and you are omni-present, you are usually already in the other place or medium that the traffic is being shifted to. So it balances out.

James Dooley: Going back to the roofer scenario, there seems to be so much emphasis with AI Overviews on reputation, like reviews, testimonials, case studies and awards. We have covered reviews and testimonials. Are you proactively trying to get contractors or clients to say they need to go out and win an award? In some industries that is hard because there are not really any awards. Are you trying to get them to win awards?

Chris Munch: That is not a strategy I have been involved with.

James Dooley: So it is not something you have worked on.

Chris Munch: No. We are seeing great results without doing that. If you add it in and it adds more benefit, then great.

James Dooley: What about case studies then? Are you doing anything on case studies?

Chris Munch: That is something we encourage clients to do. Give us case studies. Give us results. You can set up a process where every time you work with a client, if you are a roofer for example, you collect key information. What was the price range? What materials were used? What was the location? Just key information from every job.

Then you can feed that in as a data source into the content creation. You take some of the before-and-after images, and the platform can create the case study for you. Then you have these very good localised case studies like roofing in a specific town for a specific type of property or job. You get these very specific case studies covering specific use cases and locations. There might not be much search volume for them, but someone will eventually ask a question like that. Plus it gives a lot of proof, data and unique information for the LLM. I think that is a great strategy and we do that from time to time with clients as well.

James Dooley: Moving away from a roofer, let’s say there is a marketing company ranking very well within Google, but struggling to get into the LLMs and AI Overviews, whether that is ChatGPT or Gemini. Obviously they need to build consensus on as many platforms as possible, repeating who they are, what they do, who they serve and why they are good. What advice would you give them? Would you say come over and do the service with Amplifier, or would you say just come and give the SaaS a try, load in who you are and what you do, create the content and syndicate it out? Do they have to log in with their own accounts for it to be sent out?

Chris Munch: If it is a smaller company and they are not big enough or ready for the agency service, then yes, they can come in and use the software. Our standard distribution is over 300 different sites, including news sites, video sites, infographic sites and social media sites. You do not have to connect any of your own sites or accounts to do that. We handle everything.

However, we do recommend that you connect your own Facebook account, YouTube account and similar because otherwise it either does not go out there or it goes to a general account where you are not going to build a following because it is mixed with all sorts of other content. We recommend you have your own TikTok, Facebook, Pinterest and Spotify, so you can build a following around your specific niche.

Even if you do not build much of a following, the algorithm can still figure it out. We had a client doing mobile home relocation services in Florida, which is a very specific niche. They started putting videos on their YouTube channel. They were not building a following or subscribers, they had maybe five subscribers, but the algorithm was able to figure out that people in Florida with a mobile home who might be interested in relocating were the right audience. It showed them the videos. So the algorithm put it in front of the right people. They were not building a following, but they said they got clients from that. So even without subscribers, it worked.

Yes, they can go in, connect their accounts, create their own channels and have a series of content about their products and product questions. Then when people look at their socials, there is actually something there. That helps conversion, and occasionally people will find them through those channels too. It just increases the reach.

Again, the process is handled. They come in, choose a topic, press a button, the AI creates the formats in the background, then ten or fifteen minutes later they can come back and review them. If I am doing it myself, I usually create two or three topics at once, let the AI run, then come back and do the review part. That means reading the content, checking the links and structure, changing anything I want. That can take about ten minutes depending on how well the content came out and how fussy you are. Maybe a couple of hours if you are very fussy. But it is pretty straightforward. An hour a day and you have content going out every day.

James Dooley: With regards to the press release and sending it out, plus Google News, PDF sharing and infographic sharing across 300-plus sites, are you saying do that every single day?

Chris Munch: Again, it depends on budget. It is like asking whether you are going to launch new ad creative every day, or launch ten, or a hundred, or a thousand. It depends on your business, your budget and how big the audience is.

For a local business, they might only do the full campaign once per month. They might do one blog post per week. On a small budget, without much time, they might come into the software one day and do four pieces of content. One of them they do the full distribution for. The other three they just take the blog content. They could probably do that in an hour or two and be done for the month. That would gradually keep stacking their traffic.

If you are an e-commerce business and you are national, more competitive and there are a lot more search queries, then you might be doing daily. You might even be doing it four times a day. You can do a lot more content. Amazon has millions of pages, so one post per day, or 350 pieces of content, is not a lot by any means. I think people underestimate how much content and how many topics they can really cover, and how much traffic is out there in most industries. It depends on budget, competition and time, but I would say you should at least be doing something once per week.

James Dooley: If somebody is interested, and they have got the amplification being shared all over the place, and they are thinking they do not want to do it themselves and want to try the tool or maybe use the agency, how can someone reach out to you? Is there a link? Is there a special offer? Should they reach out to you directly, Chris, or is there a landing page that explains it all?

Chris Munch: Just go to amplifier.com and check it out. There are options there. The software is not publicly available at the moment. It is on a waitlist, so you have to come in and apply for that. The agency service is also by application. We should be going public with the software, where you can just sign up and join from the website, around the middle of the year. We have just got some more technical stuff to build out before that is ready.

James Dooley: Chris, it has been an absolute pleasure. Anyone watching this, make sure you go and check out amplifier.com. It has been a pleasure, Chris. Thank you very much.

Chris Munch: Thank you, James. I appreciate it.