WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:03.581 --> 00:00:12.871 Gene Tavernetti: Welcome to Better Teaching, Only Stuff That Works, a podcast for teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, and anyone else who supports teachers in the classroom. 00:00:13.701 --> 00:00:19.701 This show is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network shows that help you go beyond education. 00:00:20.121 --> 00:00:24.471 Find all our shows@bepodcastnetwork.com. 00:00:24.971 --> 00:00:27.731 I Am Gene Tavernetti the host for this podcast. 00:00:27.821 --> 00:00:35.711 And my goal for this episode, like all episodes, is that you laugh at least once and that you leave with an actionable idea for better teaching. 00:00:36.331 --> 00:00:38.881 A quick reminder, no cliches, no buzzwords. 00:00:39.216 --> 00:00:40.586 Only stuff that works. 00:00:41.577 --> 00:00:55.707 I'm excited today to talk about a topic which, if anybody has been listening to me for any period of time, knows is important to me, and that is the idea of having schools have a, their own identity. 00:00:56.507 --> 00:01:04.347 They are a some sort of thematic school, whether it's classical, whether it's technical, whether it's medical, whatever it is. 00:01:04.367 --> 00:01:14.497 But there is something that makes that school unique that allows parents who are looking to choose schools to give them some sort of reason to go to that school. 00:01:15.117 --> 00:01:22.557 And so today, we're gonna talk more about that with somebody who has been involved in magnet schools for 40 years. 00:01:22.907 --> 00:01:27.297 And my guest today to talk about this with me is Jane Wagner. 00:01:28.087 --> 00:01:30.257 Jane is very recently retired. 00:01:30.257 --> 00:01:33.777 I say recently retired, within weeks of retirement. 00:01:34.097 --> 00:01:52.467 Jane served 43 years in the Fresno Unified School District, beginning in 1991, where she taught at an environmental science magnet school, and she taught there for seven years and moved to a school without a theme for a couple years. 00:01:52.497 --> 00:02:04.147 But then in 1993, she landed at Buller Talent School, where she initially taught seventh and eighth grade English language arts and a variety of visual and performing arts classes. 00:02:05.067 --> 00:02:10.637 Just to be clear, Buller Talent is a visual and performing arts magnet school. 00:02:11.517 --> 00:02:22.927 In 1995, she began her 31-year run directing the annual Buller Talent Middle School musical, opening with The Music Man and closing this year with Honk Jr. 00:02:24.257 --> 00:02:34.227 In 1997, Jane and Jody Lipari assumed the roles of Buller Talent School of Visual and Performing Arts co-coordinators while continuing to teach eighth grade core academics. 00:02:35.127 --> 00:03:04.139 In 1999, she joined Randy Berger in co-directing Showcase, a grades six through eight award-winning show choir that performs choreographed and staged pop and contemporary music at local, state, and national events In 2017, Jane left the academic classroom to focus on the management of the Boler Talent Visual and Performing Arts program, in addition to directing the annual middle school musical and showcase. 00:03:05.219 --> 00:03:11.179 Throughout her entire career, Jane has been passionate about the power of visual and performing arts. 00:03:11.629 --> 00:03:28.569 Whether teaching at a traditional or magnet school, she always sought ways to incorporate the visual and performing arts as a means to engage students, develop the whole child, foster a sense of self and identity, and provide a forum to bridge differences and cultivate understanding. 00:03:29.729 --> 00:03:45.339 She has thoroughly enjoyed her 43 years in education, but is greatly looking forward to spending time with her six sons, their wives, significant others, her grandson Atlas, grandson Sienna, and the three grandchildren that will be born this fall within three weeks of each other. 00:03:46.099 --> 00:03:57.419 I think you're gonna like this one, and full disclosure, I had the pleasure of working with Jane for about five years, and I can vouch for so much of what she has to say. 00:03:57.699 --> 00:03:59.019 I think you're gonna like this one 00:03:59.539 --> 00:04:03.739 jane, thank you so much for being on Better Teaching: Only Stuff That Works. 00:04:04.819 --> 00:04:05.759 Thank you for having me. 00:04:06.109 --> 00:04:08.679 We- Oh, my pleasure. 00:04:08.709 --> 00:04:09.729 My, my pleasure. 00:04:09.739 --> 00:04:23.619 And as I said in the introduction, I am so interested in in schools having themes, making, you know, being able to distinguish themselves from other folks whether it's a charter, whether it's a magnet. 00:04:23.719 --> 00:04:38.449 But I just think it's gonna be so important in the future, and that's why I was so happy to have you on, somebody who's spent almost their entire career in magnet schools to be able to talk about this, and some of the issues with not only getting them started, but keeping them going. 00:04:39.169 --> 00:04:50.219 So, in the introduction we found out that you worked at two magnets, one for a brief period of time, and then at the Visual and Performing Arts Magnet for quite a while. 00:04:50.229 --> 00:04:50.259 Yes. 00:04:50.759 --> 00:05:02.669 So I know it's a long time, I know it's a long time ago, Jane, but can you remember w- was the, was that first magnet … Can you talk about the first magnet, and then how you got to the Visual and Performing Arts? 00:05:03.469 --> 00:05:10.769 The first one was Turner Elementary School, and to be honest with you, I don't even know if they're still I don't even know if they were technically a magnet school, but definitely a specialty school. 00:05:11.169 --> 00:05:13.729 Their emphasis was environmental sciences. 00:05:14.309 --> 00:05:19.289 So we had a center outside where they could grow things. 00:05:19.349 --> 00:05:20.639 They had animals. 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:22.439 And it was very interesting. 00:05:22.469 --> 00:05:33.269 It was in the southeast part of Fresno, and, it, like when they brought a cow from Fresno State one time and kids who lived, you know, in the valley and had no idea that milk came from cows. 00:05:33.929 --> 00:05:35.069 It was just, it was crazy. 00:05:35.069 --> 00:05:36.409 But that, I mean, it w- it was real. 00:05:36.419 --> 00:05:37.619 These kids had no idea. 00:05:37.979 --> 00:05:49.079 So it was a great opportunity for kids to access things that even though you might assume that they would know it living where we do they they just had a, you know, it was a great opportunity for them to see that. 00:05:49.169 --> 00:05:58.339 I would say it was probably not as well articulated in terms of what was going on in the environmental center with the classroom. 00:05:58.349 --> 00:06:09.099 We had scheduled times that we would go and see, and we certainly would you know, w- you, we would incorporate it into it, but it was not as extensive as Bullard Talent, I will say that. 00:06:09.589 --> 00:06:15.489 But it was, you know, it was a good, but it was, that was right at the beginning of specialty schools, you know, kind of, of making their mark. 00:06:15.509 --> 00:06:28.689 And I think again, as you already alluded to, starting it's kind of the easy part, but then maintaining it and you know, you it, it's, I liken it, it's the same thing in ministries. 00:06:28.689 --> 00:06:34.309 You know, youth directors are, it's a very charismatic kind of a thing, and it's very contingent on the personnel. 00:06:34.819 --> 00:06:41.209 And so to have structures in place that allow transitions to be successful is really important, so yeah. 00:06:41.209 --> 00:06:44.849 Another thing that's interesting is the historical time period that this was happening. 00:06:45.249 --> 00:06:45.439 Mm-hmm. 00:06:45.449 --> 00:07:08.109 Because it was my understanding that in Fresno Unified is where we're gonna be talking about specifically was very much like other urban districts around the country is they were developing these theme schools, magnet schools- to attract students to have parents choose to have their par- their students go someplace versus having to do some sort of forced busing. 00:07:08.829 --> 00:07:09.119 Right. 00:07:09.169 --> 00:07:10.959 And so it was a reaction to that. 00:07:10.969 --> 00:07:15.769 So, so Turner Elementary with the environmental science, that was one of them. 00:07:16.149 --> 00:07:16.309 Mm-hmm. 00:07:16.309 --> 00:07:22.049 And you were there for a couple years, but then you couple years later you were at the Visual and Performing Arts Magnet. 00:07:22.509 --> 00:07:24.619 Now, were you recruited? 00:07:24.629 --> 00:07:25.839 Were you enticed? 00:07:25.849 --> 00:07:28.139 Were you just wanted to be a part of that? 00:07:28.139 --> 00:07:28.709 Tell us about that. 00:07:28.709 --> 00:07:33.129 Well, in between, Turner and Bullard Talent, I was at Daly School. 00:07:33.169 --> 00:07:34.679 And it was… It's actually Daly-Hackman. 00:07:34.709 --> 00:07:35.949 It's charter school now. 00:07:36.249 --> 00:07:37.349 And they had two campuses. 00:07:37.349 --> 00:07:42.499 The main camps- campus was K4, and then the other campus was 5-6. 00:07:43.039 --> 00:07:47.589 So, in that instance, I actually, I was recruited for that too. 00:07:47.789 --> 00:07:55.749 I actually, funny story, was in bed because I stayed in bed for my first pregnancy with my son Robert, and the principal came and interviewed me in my bed. 00:07:55.959 --> 00:08:14.949 But that school in the process of being there, Clytie Ramsey, who was the original director of Roosevelt School of the Arts was needed some more administrative experience to go to a to do a principalship at a traditional school, not as a director of a school within a school, which Roosevelt School of the Arts is. 00:08:15.569 --> 00:08:17.099 So I was working with her. 00:08:17.419 --> 00:08:23.289 She moved on to Bullard Talent and recruited me to work there. 00:08:23.709 --> 00:08:25.539 So I followed her there. 00:08:26.649 --> 00:08:27.379 That's how I ended up there. 00:08:27.379 --> 00:08:35.549 And just to clarify for listeners, Roosevelt School of the Arts is a high school that is a school within a school- Mm-hmm … that has an arts emphasis. 00:08:35.829 --> 00:08:41.179 There's over 100- So we got to Bullard Talent and I know it had been in existence for a few years before you got there. 00:08:41.189 --> 00:08:43.659 Could you talk a little bit about the history? 00:08:43.699 --> 00:08:46.109 I'm sure you know about the history of how it got started. 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:48.539 Bullard Talent opened up in 1980, 1981. 00:08:50.599 --> 00:08:54.909 And again, I think it was a reaction to what was going on in the district. 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:58.769 And mastery learning was a really big thing at that point. 00:08:59.369 --> 00:09:03.279 And, You know, th- there was so much emphasis on minutia. 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:10.059 You know, they would break everything down to the teeniest, tiniest possible skill, and then access assess the heck out of it. 00:09:10.609 --> 00:09:13.649 And then the record keeping for it was super laborious. 00:09:13.649 --> 00:09:16.359 You know, you'd record things in, like, three different places. 00:09:16.359 --> 00:09:23.009 One, I remember when we were doing that, and this is when I was at Turner you know, you had to have the information, you know, like in your grade book. 00:09:23.009 --> 00:09:30.679 You had to have it on the Scantrons, and then you had to have it on a chart on the wall so if an administrator walked in that they could see exactly where you were. 00:09:31.219 --> 00:09:38.759 So it was very tedious and not particularly engaging, and absolutely not authentic. 00:09:39.209 --> 00:09:42.549 So I think people, you know, they weren't happy with that. 00:09:42.599 --> 00:09:47.309 And Bullard Talent actually started out, it was primarily a gate school. 00:09:47.419 --> 00:09:52.339 I- in order to get in there was an assessment process, and it was three-prong. 00:09:52.349 --> 00:09:58.409 You would just take a test, and for the most part they were taking kids who already had mastered the kindergarten curriculum. 00:09:58.789 --> 00:10:13.609 So many of the kids w- I, when I came in, I started in the middle school, and I would say at least half, if not two-thirds of the kids were actually old enough to be high school freshmen because they'd all done a year of kindergarten and then assessed to get in. 00:10:13.899 --> 00:10:20.169 And then they would also do an interview with them, and then they would do an observation with the child in a playgroup. 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:36.799 It wasn't completely pure but for the most part, it, th- these kids were super sharp kids, and also these were resourced families, so many of the kids came with a lot of private lessons: dance music. 00:10:37.269 --> 00:10:41.409 So, You know, they were very resourced, and I think I said it yes- when we were talking. 00:10:41.409 --> 00:10:49.059 If they weren't financially resourced, the parents were resourced in that they were in the know and that they wanted something more for their kids. 00:10:49.069 --> 00:10:51.369 So it, it was a very special group of parents. 00:10:51.649 --> 00:10:54.989 Also when it so the parents really, it was driven by parents. 00:10:54.989 --> 00:10:56.599 They wanted something different for their kids. 00:10:57.099 --> 00:10:58.849 They wanted it centered around the arts. 00:10:58.859 --> 00:11:04.089 So the original staff had a lot of really highly trained arts people. 00:11:04.359 --> 00:11:11.719 Not all of them were, but the- everyone was interested in using the arts as a vehicle for you know, delivering curriculum. 00:11:12.189 --> 00:11:21.319 And the teachers would develop units that you know, had arts applications, but were predicated on the academic standards. 00:11:21.329 --> 00:11:22.429 It was very organic. 00:11:22.809 --> 00:11:36.759 They had music specialists theater specialists as well, but the classroom teachers in their own right, you know, were either highly interested in it and self-taught or trained, you know, in, in it. 00:11:36.769 --> 00:11:38.139 So, it started out that way. 00:11:38.139 --> 00:11:41.639 And then also they monitored parent involvement. 00:11:42.689 --> 00:11:50.509 There was somebody who kept track of how many hours you donated, and if you know, you had to donate a certain amount of hours, which is something I think that we really need to go back to. 00:11:50.819 --> 00:11:55.539 This idea of just dropping your kids off at school and not having any buy-in it's, it doesn't really work. 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:58.249 And then they also had grade requirements. 00:11:58.249 --> 00:12:03.219 If you your grades were lower than a C, then you were asked to go elsewhere. 00:12:03.249 --> 00:12:06.029 So, it was a very organic program. 00:12:06.109 --> 00:12:25.377 They also, you again, had kids that were highly interested in the program and I think probably about Probably a little less than 10 years in it I think the Office of Civil Rights got involved in it and found that it was there was not equal access, so they went to lottery in the late the late '80s. 00:12:25.417 --> 00:12:27.017 I got there in '93. 00:12:27.017 --> 00:12:31.177 I think late '80s, early '90s, they went to to a lottery system. 00:12:31.987 --> 00:12:42.537 And I think that there was a little bit of a kind of dip in things at that point because you have kids that, you know, were coming with a lot of training and then kids with nothing, you know. 00:12:42.927 --> 00:12:45.077 And I think there was some animosity. 00:12:45.087 --> 00:12:50.717 You know, the the founding folks were not necessarily happy with the advent of the lottery system. 00:12:51.177 --> 00:12:52.737 So let's clarify a couple things. 00:12:52.737 --> 00:12:55.027 Number one, it's a K-8 school. 00:12:55.447 --> 00:12:55.907 Yes. 00:12:56.087 --> 00:13:03.817 And so you, when you say you were working in the middle school, you were working with grades six through eight, although the campus was one campus. 00:13:03.827 --> 00:13:03.847 Yeah. 00:13:04.797 --> 00:13:07.307 So all the students, so all the students were there. 00:13:07.307 --> 00:13:14.927 The other thing I wanted to clarify is that you said that there was a performance aspect, that they were observed, but it was just how they got along in groups. 00:13:14.927 --> 00:13:19.017 It wasn't like, "We're auditioning for this school-" No … "or no room." No. 00:13:19.047 --> 00:13:21.537 They did not audition to come to the school. 00:13:21.937 --> 00:13:25.507 I mean, I'm sure, and I don't know this for a fact, I'm sure they asked do they take dance lessons. 00:13:25.507 --> 00:13:31.767 But, you know, what five-year-old knows what- … what they wanna be when they grow up, you know, besides, you know, My Little Pony's master or something. 00:13:31.767 --> 00:13:39.587 But, you know, they I, I think they were looking for kids that would benefit, you know, or who would take advantage of the arts. 00:13:39.857 --> 00:13:45.427 And so then as you described, you know, after the Office of Civil Rights got involved, then it was a pure lottery. 00:13:45.697 --> 00:13:45.777 Mm-hmm. 00:13:45.777 --> 00:13:46.867 A pure lottery system. 00:13:47.137 --> 00:13:48.571 Well- And- as I don't know that it was pure. 00:13:48.571 --> 00:13:48.723 Mm-hmm. 00:13:49.393 --> 00:13:52.523 You know, because I, well, I just I don't know that it was completely pure. 00:13:52.843 --> 00:14:09.493 But basically what would happen is w- if a child left, they would attempt to replace, you know, they w- they would have this list of kids that had either applied or expressed interest, whatever, and they would try to replace with a gender. 00:14:09.743 --> 00:14:13.903 And so, like, if a third grade girl left, they would try to replace with a third grade girl. 00:14:14.593 --> 00:14:23.243 But that kind of went by the wayside, and it went to strictly when people applied with… And this is, I think, more so once we got further into the lottery system. 00:14:23.243 --> 00:14:27.533 It's just as your number came up, you know, then the next child in would come. 00:14:28.093 --> 00:14:34.003 And my recollection of the lottery system was that, as you said, parents would just be interested in their kids being at the school. 00:14:34.063 --> 00:14:35.073 They would sign up. 00:14:35.923 --> 00:14:39.123 If they didn't make it, then they were on a waiting list. 00:14:39.243 --> 00:14:45.413 And when I was there for the five years with you the waiting list was nearly as long as the number of kids who were in school. 00:14:46.043 --> 00:14:49.733 I mean, people were very interested in getting their kids- Yes … into this school. 00:14:50.393 --> 00:14:59.073 Well, and I will say over the years, the reasons for being interested in the school are not necessarily for the visual and performing arts. 00:14:59.093 --> 00:15:09.903 And I think as the years have gone by there has been a larger, and larger number of people that are interested in the school not for the visual and performing arts which has diluted what we can accomplish. 00:15:10.303 --> 00:15:18.363 And I think as we moved away from teachers that were, highly interested, highly trained in the visual performing arts. 00:15:18.793 --> 00:15:24.358 We had to a- and who could articulate that without a lot of instruction. 00:15:25.328 --> 00:15:33.548 We had to be more precise and definitive as to what the expectations f- were for the teachers and for the students. 00:15:33.548 --> 00:15:42.118 And I would say that in the same way that we have students at Comfortable or Talent for not necessarily the visual performing arts, we have teachers as well. 00:15:42.528 --> 00:15:46.658 You know, for the most part we have a stable clientele. 00:15:47.248 --> 00:15:52.548 You know, I know when I was in not a magnet school I, you know, and it w- it wasn't personal, obviously. 00:15:52.858 --> 00:16:00.938 But many of the schools, you know, have revolving doors of transiency, and that's really hard, you know, on teachers and students. 00:16:01.268 --> 00:16:02.418 So teachers like that. 00:16:02.858 --> 00:16:11.838 The way we Bullard Talent is structured currently we have specialists that deliver theater, art, movement and music classes. 00:16:12.228 --> 00:16:15.918 And then the teachers are also expected to contribute to that as well. 00:16:16.498 --> 00:16:28.158 And then ideally, you know, going along the origins of the school, there would be integration between the specialists and the classroom teachers. 00:16:28.628 --> 00:16:35.268 You know, again, that's something that is diluted as you add people that are not necessarily interested in the program. 00:16:35.328 --> 00:16:44.798 And we have had a lot of teachers that have been assigned there because they were displaced from whatever school that they were at, and they, you know, they were overage teachers. 00:16:44.828 --> 00:16:52.298 And not that, you know, there's anything wrong with overage teachers, but that doesn't necessarily mean, you know, that you're interested in being there. 00:16:52.688 --> 00:16:58.038 So, if they're not interested in it, the, being expected to develop a performance. 00:16:58.038 --> 00:17:05.328 Our first through fifth grade teachers are expected annually to create a performance and that can be very daunting. 00:17:05.358 --> 00:17:10.528 You know, yeah, there's lots of resources to assist you, but it's very daunting to do that if it's not your jam. 00:17:10.828 --> 00:17:14.988 So, you know, that, that has been something that makes had, it makes it difficult. 00:17:15.418 --> 00:17:22.048 So you brought up already a couple things that make maintaining the theme of the school the emphasis of the school tough. 00:17:22.048 --> 00:17:37.166 One you mentioned was the the teachers and- I am, I'm I think we need to, you know, respect the contract, and at the same time realize that, that there's a unique program going on. 00:17:37.546 --> 00:17:44.736 I would say, you know, a lot of schools, a lot of programs will say, "Oh, we're the shining star of the district," but Bullard Talent is. 00:17:44.746 --> 00:17:49.556 There is not a school like that actually, you know, does the things that it does. 00:17:50.036 --> 00:18:08.826 And so I think that's an issue that it never really got settled in that there needs to be some sort of dispensation for the school as you are going through the contract, you know, you know, honoring the contract, but you've got, as what I say, Bullard Talent was a shining, shining example of the arts. 00:18:08.966 --> 00:18:14.526 There are other programs within the district that also are doing a good job. 00:18:14.526 --> 00:18:20.336 I mean, we've got a high school in West Fresno that shows up on the top, you know, 100 high schools in the country every year. 00:18:21.126 --> 00:18:27.276 It's a school within a school, but that program needs to be protected because of its uniqueness and how well it does. 00:18:27.286 --> 00:18:37.146 So- Well, I if we're gonna move towards thematic, specialty magnet, whatever you wanna call them, schools I think the whole union thing has to be looked at. 00:18:37.146 --> 00:18:41.666 So for example I think this applies to all schools, but I can only speak to my experience. 00:18:42.116 --> 00:18:46.776 At Bullard Talent, we do 80 extra events a year, okay? 00:18:46.776 --> 00:19:02.136 Well, 80 extra events means that there's chair setup, that there's you know, a huge amount of facilities used, and then add to it also that prior to COVID, we had an extended day program that maxed out at 100 students. 00:19:02.936 --> 00:19:16.186 With the advent of everybody's gonna get, you know, extended day care, we do 300 kids now, which means that one little portable isn't gonna fly. 00:19:16.546 --> 00:19:19.096 So, we don't h- we don't have a theater. 00:19:19.686 --> 00:19:30.076 We have a multipurpose room that we have to share with extended day, with the traditional uses of it, you know, lunch assemblies and then rehearsals. 00:19:30.616 --> 00:19:41.608 All of those things, and in, in the midst of all of that, we don't get any extra custodial So we ha- you know our janitors are running ragged. 00:19:41.618 --> 00:19:45.448 They are running ragged to keep up with the demands. 00:19:45.488 --> 00:19:51.358 And we've been very fortunate to have you know, really hardworking guys, you know, that… and gals. 00:19:51.388 --> 00:19:52.778 We had some really great gals, too. 00:19:53.058 --> 00:20:07.358 That they cannot keep up with it, and we've gone round and round with the union and we s- You know, there's a formula for the square footage of the school, and the fact that we do 80 extra events a year that means absolutely nothing. 00:20:08.008 --> 00:20:12.138 There are I'm just many things where the school needs agency. 00:20:12.718 --> 00:20:23.588 And I'm gonna just go out on a limb here because this is something for me that is phenomenally frustrating, is we have very limited funding that's provided by the district. 00:20:24.168 --> 00:20:34.288 And when the school started, you know, the 150, they got $150,000, that paid for the specialists, that paid for the materials to manage the program. 00:20:34.518 --> 00:20:37.728 Well, that, that doesn't pay for, you know, anything now. 00:20:38.238 --> 00:20:45.118 And yet we're required to do things that other middle schools do because that's what other middle schools do. 00:20:45.138 --> 00:20:48.598 And, you know, my biggest complaint, I'll just be honest, is sports. 00:20:48.598 --> 00:20:51.108 And I want to be very clear when I talk about sports. 00:20:51.708 --> 00:20:52.708 I have six sons. 00:20:53.568 --> 00:20:56.308 I have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on sports. 00:20:56.348 --> 00:20:57.828 I am not anti-sports. 00:20:58.708 --> 00:21:05.548 But when you have a limited amount of resources, and e- more importantly, we have a limited number of students. 00:21:05.578 --> 00:21:08.748 Our middle school has about 300 students. 00:21:10.078 --> 00:21:20.038 And they when the students are presented with all these incredible visual performing arts opportunities and then sports as well they want to do both. 00:21:21.098 --> 00:21:33.458 And, you know, for years it's been argued, "Well, why can't they do bo- both?" When would you ever ask a sports team wouldn't a, when would a coach ever agree to let somebody miss two days a week of practice? 00:21:34.228 --> 00:21:37.008 It never, ever would that be acceptable. 00:21:37.578 --> 00:21:42.838 But when you have children who participate in sports our elite groups if the… 00:21:42.868 --> 00:21:46.138 And it's up to the director to whether or not a child can participate or not. 00:21:46.598 --> 00:22:08.798 They have to let them go t- two days a week you know, we should be able to say, "If sports is what you want, you should go to another school." W- we the, to me the number one problem with maintaining specialty magnet, thematic, whatever you wanna call them, schools, is that they have to have agency. 00:22:09.088 --> 00:22:17.618 And if thematic schools is a thing of the future, then we need to look at it rather than say every school has to offer certain… I mean, there, there are certain things. 00:22:17.848 --> 00:22:25.218 You know, everybody has to provide, you know, the standard curriculum, but how you do that doesn't have to be the same. 00:22:25.828 --> 00:22:25.988 Yeah. 00:22:25.988 --> 00:22:26.978 Again, to- That can be different 00:22:27.388 --> 00:22:46.548 to clarify something that you just said, you're not talking about when you're talking about missing rehearsals, you're talking about the elite groups, the groups that you have to audition to be in, which there is a very competitive, it's very competitive at Buller Talent to get into these groups. 00:22:46.548 --> 00:22:49.748 You have groups, you know, you have to get into dance groups. 00:22:49.748 --> 00:22:56.118 I mean, you probably have kids that have been through the entire dance program, which is provided for at Buller Talent. 00:22:56.508 --> 00:23:00.778 And so it's, And I wanna interject one thing here too, 'cause this is something I feel strongly about. 00:23:01.178 --> 00:23:10.988 I taught at the tail end of the pre-lottery days, and the bulk of my time at Buller Talent has been lottery. 00:23:11.608 --> 00:23:17.388 And I am very much a fav- in favor of lottery K-5. 00:23:18.588 --> 00:23:25.058 I don't think first… in fact, e- every child in the district at every school should be getting what we offer K-5. 00:23:25.298 --> 00:23:26.558 Every single child should. 00:23:27.468 --> 00:23:38.186 But by fifth grade, students know whether they like this or not And kids who in the fifth grade say, "I don't wanna be in choir. 00:23:38.196 --> 00:23:39.346 I don't wanna be in band. 00:23:39.366 --> 00:23:40.546 I don't wanna be in art. 00:23:41.166 --> 00:23:57.296 I don't wanna be in dance," we should help them find other accommodations for middle school. I think that everyone should have to reapply for the middle school, and I'm not talking about an audition. I'm talking about, "Okay, Susie, you've been at Bullard Talent since kindergarten. 00:23:57.816 --> 00:24:00.626 What group do you see yourself shooting for? 00:24:01.326 --> 00:24:08.446 What what about the arts is interesting to you?" And if the answer is nothing, they shouldn't be there. 00:24:09.056 --> 00:24:12.386 And we should be able- So let me- And that's, that, that's another agency piece. 00:24:12.736 --> 00:24:17.616 We should not have to have students be in a place that they don't wanna be. 00:24:17.616 --> 00:24:20.896 And I think it's, You know, some people just don't like to perform. 00:24:21.436 --> 00:24:23.666 Some people don't like anything about it. 00:24:23.676 --> 00:24:26.566 By the time they're in fifth grade, they know what they like and what they don't like. 00:24:27.156 --> 00:24:31.216 And many of our students are there because the parents think it's a safe place. 00:24:31.516 --> 00:24:35.836 The home school's not a safe place, you know, or it's perceived as such. 00:24:36.196 --> 00:24:40.836 And that, that is not a reason to be at the school, and it dilutes the program. 00:24:41.006 --> 00:24:46.176 So let- So let's, let- There's, there… Many aspects of agency that s- these schools need to have. 00:24:46.656 --> 00:24:48.316 So let me go back to the second point. 00:24:48.326 --> 00:24:56.666 So you had talked about teachers, and we talked about teachers and the school needs agency in how they select teachers for this extra hard work. 00:24:56.716 --> 00:25:00.343 I mean, I talked to two teachers the other day, and that's the first thing that they said. 00:25:00.343 --> 00:25:01.603 It's hard work, but it's worth it. 00:25:01.653 --> 00:25:02.233 It's a different work. 00:25:02.233 --> 00:25:02.328 Okay. 00:25:02.328 --> 00:25:03.683 And I wanna qualify that, too. 00:25:04.013 --> 00:25:04.333 Okay. 00:25:04.693 --> 00:25:10.413 Teachers at Bullard Talent, and this is probably gonna offend some teachers, they're not working harder than other teachers. 00:25:10.673 --> 00:25:11.623 It is different. 00:25:12.273 --> 00:25:19.733 So to, to do what we do at Bullard Talent, one thing that makes it incredibly easier is that we don't have the transiency. 00:25:20.963 --> 00:25:23.483 Well- We have a very supportive… it's different, and I wanna be very clear about it. 00:25:23.493 --> 00:25:29.053 There are some things that teachers at Bullard Talent get that teachers at other schools don't get. 00:25:29.373 --> 00:25:30.703 So it's just different. 00:25:30.703 --> 00:25:31.170 It's different. 00:25:31.170 --> 00:25:33.760 And I think teacher- Yeah … teaching in general is hard work. 00:25:33.990 --> 00:25:39.960 And I will go one step further at the risk of offending again using religious metaphors, but it is missionary work. 00:25:40.750 --> 00:25:42.280 It is absolutely missionary work. 00:25:42.590 --> 00:25:44.970 And you know, you're not gonna get rich doing it. 00:25:45.250 --> 00:25:47.320 I think there's an incredible amount of satisfaction. 00:25:47.320 --> 00:25:49.650 And I'm gonna tie something back that I started to say that I didn't finish. 00:25:50.240 --> 00:26:05.486 I'm very pro the lottery because I would argue that the results that we get are no different than pre-lottery days It's harder to get those results because the kids don't come with training. 00:26:05.806 --> 00:26:10.426 But at the end of the day, pre-lottery you know, these kids were already trained. 00:26:10.966 --> 00:26:11.296 Yeah. 00:26:11.506 --> 00:26:20.656 I- you know it's like when … A- and this'll probably make people mad when I say this too, but like at Manchester Gate when they have high test scores, well, of course they do. 00:26:20.666 --> 00:26:22.166 They have admission requirements. 00:26:22.556 --> 00:26:22.976 You know? 00:26:23.256 --> 00:26:37.156 When, now when we do things it is a function of what we provided, and I find that way more satisfying than having a kid that was already trained deliver a stellar performance. 00:26:37.396 --> 00:26:39.156 Now, everyone may not feel that way. 00:26:39.466 --> 00:26:40.826 That is personally how I feel. 00:26:41.436 --> 00:26:41.601 That, Okay. 00:26:41.601 --> 00:26:47.146 Well, I was with you, and I'm with you on that as well because I've always worked at schools and I was a coach. 00:26:48.486 --> 00:27:02.898 I was, you know, I was a coach, and it was always much more- Much more g- enjoyment and fulfillment when you took somebody that was five foot four and you taught them how to be a quarterback versus somebody who's been, you know. 00:27:03.178 --> 00:27:04.058 So I get that. 00:27:04.058 --> 00:27:05.638 I'm with you on that 100%. 00:27:05.988 --> 00:27:15.338 And I want, and I wanna go back to something that you talk about with regards, you know, you talk about K five and then maybe six eight that, that you come back again. 00:27:15.928 --> 00:27:20.938 Because I think it should be clear for teachers, you're coming here, this is the deal. 00:27:22.268 --> 00:27:23.068 Th- this is the deal. 00:27:23.068 --> 00:27:28.848 And again, the school needs to have some agency, and if this is not for you, no hard feelings. 00:27:28.978 --> 00:27:30.468 You know, this is not for you, no hard feelings. 00:27:30.908 --> 00:27:31.338 Okay. 00:27:31.558 --> 00:27:33.758 And the same thing with with the parents. 00:27:34.308 --> 00:27:36.428 This is what we're doing, okay? 00:27:36.778 --> 00:27:44.718 And I think you have… I think you nailed it with respect to why kids why parents will choose Buller Talent. 00:27:44.778 --> 00:27:47.268 In fact, it was my doctoral research. 00:27:47.918 --> 00:28:00.688 And I found and it was so interesting the findings, where one of the findings was that if you took a look at why the parents chose and signed up, they had to take action to get their kids in. 00:28:01.628 --> 00:28:12.208 The most affluent parents, they wanted their kids there because it was a K-8 school, and they didn't have to expose their kids to the chaos of a middle school. 00:28:12.268 --> 00:28:16.828 They felt it was just more calm, more just a more stable thing. 00:28:17.038 --> 00:28:18.548 And I wanna interrupt you just for a minute too. 00:28:19.378 --> 00:28:26.668 I do not understand why the K-8 model is not employed m- more, because there are so many positives for it. 00:28:26.698 --> 00:28:32.028 And the bottom line is this: there should never be 1,300 13-year-olds in one place. 00:28:32.328 --> 00:28:33.948 There, that, that is just criminal. 00:28:34.208 --> 00:28:34.450 Okay, Jane. 00:28:34.450 --> 00:28:40.733 And at two-year programs, nobody, the parents don't get involved, the kids don't get involved. 00:28:40.863 --> 00:28:46.153 And that's why when you walk onto a traditional middle school campus, they look like high schoolers, because they're looking to what's next. 00:28:46.433 --> 00:28:58.253 At a K-8 school, you know, when you're in the eighth grade and you're getting a little big for your britches, well, that kindergarten teacher who remembers when you urinated on the carpet and used to cry every day for your mom, you know, that's very humbling. 00:28:59.403 --> 00:28:59.623 Yes. 00:28:59.633 --> 00:28:59.653 Yeah. 00:28:59.653 --> 00:29:01.123 Our it's like, to me, I don't get it. 00:29:01.193 --> 00:29:01.903 That's like the best. 00:29:02.623 --> 00:29:03.413 I- It's absolute best … i'm with you. 00:29:03.453 --> 00:29:04.223 I'm with you, Jane. 00:29:04.683 --> 00:29:06.593 So just to get back to the findings of the research. 00:29:06.593 --> 00:29:06.953 Sorry. 00:29:07.253 --> 00:29:08.083 Oh, no, that's okay. 00:29:08.303 --> 00:29:08.863 That's okay. 00:29:09.303 --> 00:29:15.783 So, so again, the more affluent parents, they wanted the kids there for because to avoid middle school. 00:29:15.803 --> 00:29:26.863 They weren't that, there weren't that many parents who were there for the arts, because they had the resources to go out, get individual lessons, be in other groups, et cetera, et cetera. 00:29:28.067 --> 00:29:34.827 The lowest resource the poorest, lowest socioeconomics they were there. 00:29:35.717 --> 00:29:42.007 They didn't know what the school was about, but they knew that it was safe and it was a good school. 00:29:42.507 --> 00:29:46.237 They couldn't articulate what a good school is, but that's why they chose it. 00:29:47.077 --> 00:29:56.977 It was the middle group who were there for the education and for the arts because they didn't have the resources to provide all of these things. 00:29:56.987 --> 00:30:00.977 So- And the fact that the parents will secure that for their kids is a resource. 00:30:00.977 --> 00:30:01.397 Yes. 00:30:01.427 --> 00:30:02.417 That is a resource. 00:30:02.617 --> 00:30:02.877 Yeah. 00:30:03.457 --> 00:30:04.967 So here's the other thing that's happening. 00:30:04.967 --> 00:30:06.587 So you've got your Bowler talent. 00:30:06.977 --> 00:30:16.257 They come in kindergarten, and then, what is it, at the end of second grade they have the opportunity to test out to go to a gate school. 00:30:16.567 --> 00:30:16.977 Yes. 00:30:17.627 --> 00:30:18.727 So what happens? 00:30:20.129 --> 00:30:32.619 You've got a school with agency that is taking people with criteria that Buller Talent, this magnet school doesn't, other than a lottery, and those kids are gonna get selected. 00:30:33.169 --> 00:30:34.889 And who's gonna fill their spots? 00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:36.139 Who's on the waiting list? 00:30:36.979 --> 00:30:43.209 Then you get to- So you've got kids that are already behind- … you know, and trying to bring them up to speed, and yes, I know where you're going next with this. 00:30:43.549 --> 00:30:43.609 Yeah. 00:30:44.049 --> 00:30:47.739 And then the next, we got a- we've got the d- you know, the- the junior high. 00:30:48.109 --> 00:30:51.674 We haven't talked- Well, but the, no, there's a much bigger problem before- besides junior high Oh, go ahead. 00:30:51.734 --> 00:30:52.174 Go ahead. 00:30:52.434 --> 00:30:53.234 Fourth grade. 00:30:53.564 --> 00:30:57.364 We go from class size reduction to a full size. 00:30:57.374 --> 00:31:01.594 So, you know, in- in the K3 they're 24, 25. 00:31:01.594 --> 00:31:16.254 And this is not qu- as profound as it's been in the past because, you know, the latest union, you know, agreement is we went from 32 being the the max for the fifth grade class up- up through fifth grade to sixth grade. 00:31:16.694 --> 00:31:18.114 It's down to 28 now. 00:31:18.474 --> 00:31:29.184 But what would happen at our school in fourth grade which was even worse than adding kids in second grade, is adding what amounted to a full class of kids in the fourth grade. 00:31:29.344 --> 00:31:50.084 So kids who'd had no visual performing arts experiences are now dropped into the program and, you know, sometimes you'd get a kid that had private training, but more often than not, you know, and a lot of times it, what we'll get, if we I- I think we have a disproportionate number of kids that have problems, whatever those problems may be, and they're hoping that Buller Talent will solve those problems. 00:31:50.854 --> 00:32:00.924 And so you have this high concentration of kids that were not successful coming into the fourth grade all at once, and you're trying to acculturate them. 00:32:01.304 --> 00:32:06.214 You're trying to bring them up to speed and that is incredibly difficult. 00:32:06.254 --> 00:32:11.064 And then just add to it that fourth grade academically is a very difficult year anyway. 00:32:11.064 --> 00:32:14.594 It's a huge trans- transition from third to fourth grade, the expectations. 00:32:15.124 --> 00:32:17.304 There's many things that make fourth grade a really hard year. 00:32:17.594 --> 00:32:22.204 So it's like a- a triple whammy, you know, at our school 'cause you've got all these kids. 00:32:22.204 --> 00:32:32.984 And even now with the reduction in the number of, the max of number of kids in the intermediate grades, it's still a very significant number of children and it's hard for everyone. 00:32:32.994 --> 00:32:37.354 It's hard for the kids, it's hard for the parents, you know, it's hard for the teachers. 00:32:37.394 --> 00:32:38.244 It's really hard. 00:32:38.976 --> 00:32:42.746 And so as you talk about all these issues, it's not that we don't want these kids. 00:32:42.746 --> 00:32:46.276 It's a- Not at all … it's about the integrity of the program. 00:32:46.286 --> 00:32:48.426 You've got a high quality program. 00:32:48.786 --> 00:32:59.206 How can we as a district, as a site, whatever, come up with policies and procedures that continue to support and maintain this high quality program? 00:32:59.586 --> 00:33:02.176 Because if it's not, it's gonna be gone. 00:33:02.746 --> 00:33:05.886 And usually these programs have a champion. 00:33:06.106 --> 00:33:08.366 Have a champion, somebody who's been there a while. 00:33:08.386 --> 00:33:14.676 And I'm gonna tell you, Jane you know, I'm concerned because you've been that champion for 30 years. 00:33:15.326 --> 00:33:21.906 I remember f- Well, I wanna say the guy that's taking my place, Robert Sanchez, is fantastic, and he's gonna, he's gonna knock it out of the park. 00:33:22.636 --> 00:33:23.386 I'm sure he will. 00:33:23.386 --> 00:33:24.306 He's gonna do really well. 00:33:24.316 --> 00:33:27.446 But there's, it's an uphill battle, without a doubt. 00:33:28.336 --> 00:33:38.476 It's not only an uphill battle, but y- you have to understand the geography of that hill, and that's one of the things that, that you knew. 00:33:38.476 --> 00:33:49.996 I remember I was telling this story the other day to to a couple of teachers who we had worked with there together, and I remember when I was there my first year there, the principal was, it was also her first year there. 00:33:50.886 --> 00:33:56.966 And I remember being in a meeting with you and who was the director of, I don't know what her title was the director of the arts. 00:33:57.416 --> 00:33:57.646 Yeah. 00:33:57.706 --> 00:33:59.126 And I think we were going through a budget. 00:34:00.306 --> 00:34:22.416 And she in this very condescending voice said, "Two more administrators we have to train." And absolutely she w- she was correct because the things that were happening were so different, and it was the difference that made the difference that made the people wanna come to the program and work hard for those 80 extra performances a year. 00:34:22.736 --> 00:34:26.056 Well, there, there are so many assumptions about Bullard Talents. 00:34:26.056 --> 00:34:34.216 Like, first of all, that every child that come wants to be there, that they are handpicked, that they auditioned, that they're super talented. 00:34:34.216 --> 00:34:43.936 I we… The first trip that we took to out of state it wasn't the first trip that we took, but it was the first trip that it was the beginning of the way we travel currently. 00:34:44.446 --> 00:34:55.876 We operated under the motto "Ordinary kids doing extraordinary things." We are not, and this is no slam to the children we take just regular kids. 00:34:56.396 --> 00:34:56.766 Yes. 00:34:56.816 --> 00:34:59.926 And we we provide a lot of opportunity. 00:35:00.576 --> 00:35:02.376 And and we get results. 00:35:03.436 --> 00:35:09.006 But it is increasingly difficult when there are just so many roadblocks. 00:35:09.896 --> 00:35:13.736 I, my own personal feeling is, you know, again, this idea of being a missionary. 00:35:14.226 --> 00:35:28.926 Every single person who works at that school from the top I don't like saying top to the bottom, but from site administration down to support staff has to be passionate about what we do. 00:35:29.396 --> 00:35:29.546 Yeah. 00:35:29.616 --> 00:35:32.626 And if there's a breakdown anywhere, it doesn't work. 00:35:33.356 --> 00:35:35.346 And you can't half it. 00:35:35.546 --> 00:35:35.896 You know? 00:35:35.906 --> 00:35:37.826 You either believe that it works or you don't. 00:35:37.846 --> 00:35:48.778 And, you know, again, I don't mean to belabor the sports point, but For so, and honestly, you know, for me, in my groups I didn't allow sports. 00:35:49.698 --> 00:36:00.598 And I, when I quit allowing kids to be in sports, the very first big musical I did at Bullard Talent was The Music Man, and I was working with, again, students who were really a year older. 00:36:01.228 --> 00:36:05.658 And it was just this incredible show because these kids had so much private training. 00:36:05.658 --> 00:36:07.858 They were so wise beyond their years. 00:36:08.258 --> 00:36:09.958 They just did a phenomenal job of it. 00:36:09.958 --> 00:36:13.868 I, and I'm proud of all the shows that we've done, so I don't wanna m- make it sound like I was more proud of this one. 00:36:14.368 --> 00:36:23.228 But in the course of arranging for the documentation of the show in portraiture, a child missed the photo sessions, and they didn't… 00:36:23.278 --> 00:36:24.428 Because they were in sports. 00:36:24.948 --> 00:36:26.118 They didn't yell at the coach. 00:36:27.448 --> 00:36:28.148 They yelled at me. 00:36:29.128 --> 00:36:37.848 You know, when there's a championship game and a final rehearsal, I know our dance people often, if you're not there for the choreography, you're not in the number. 00:36:38.348 --> 00:36:48.098 Well, we had a little girl who was an incredible athlete and also an incredible dancer, but she missed so much that of the, you know, the eight dances that they presented at the end of the year, she was in one. 00:36:49.218 --> 00:36:50.438 They didn't yell at the coaches. 00:36:50.968 --> 00:36:51.268 Yeah. 00:36:51.458 --> 00:36:53.808 They yelled at the teacher, the dance teacher. 00:36:54.218 --> 00:37:06.378 You know, I just feel like, a- and for, i- if we c- take it out of the Bullard Talent thing, the way that you make decisions is you ask yourself the question. 00:37:07.328 --> 00:37:10.218 And there's all kinds of really great things going on. 00:37:10.258 --> 00:37:11.488 You can't do everything. 00:37:11.758 --> 00:37:12.778 There's X amount of time. 00:37:12.828 --> 00:37:18.098 And one of the things I find with our kids who do engage in our program, they want to do everything. 00:37:18.708 --> 00:37:20.178 They want to do everything. 00:37:20.478 --> 00:37:23.178 And if you offer them something more, they will do it. 00:37:23.668 --> 00:37:25.678 But there's only so many hours in the day. 00:37:25.688 --> 00:37:26.458 These are children. 00:37:26.468 --> 00:37:27.598 They can only do so much. 00:37:27.848 --> 00:37:30.488 And many of our programs are very demanding. 00:37:31.568 --> 00:37:33.578 It, you can't keep offering things. 00:37:33.788 --> 00:37:36.628 You we, h- here's a an example, and it was an arts option. 00:37:36.958 --> 00:37:49.628 We had the last group that we added that I, you know, I would say we can't add any more groups because we don't have the space, we don't have the staff, and the kids that are already in 15 groups wanna be in it too. 00:37:49.798 --> 00:37:54.278 We added mariachi, which is a very popular group on our campus. 00:37:54.458 --> 00:37:58.118 We tried to add folklorico, which would be a natural thing to do with it. 00:37:58.708 --> 00:37:59.578 It was too much. 00:37:59.858 --> 00:38:00.488 It broke the bank. 00:38:01.008 --> 00:38:01.108 Yeah. 00:38:01.108 --> 00:38:01.938 It was too much. 00:38:02.188 --> 00:38:03.938 You can only do so much. 00:38:04.208 --> 00:38:08.768 And so when you add all these things in and people think, you know, again, they think I'm anti-sports. 00:38:08.998 --> 00:38:10.088 They think I don't like this. 00:38:10.088 --> 00:38:10.898 I don't or whatever. 00:38:10.938 --> 00:38:12.858 Again, just take it out of the visual performing arts area. 00:38:13.318 --> 00:38:21.150 If you're adding something and it doesn't improve the program- Then don't do it. 00:38:22.110 --> 00:38:23.860 That's- Well, and I- That is, that's the measure. 00:38:23.870 --> 00:38:30.040 And if you are adding things that don't support the program, then you're diluting it. 00:38:30.240 --> 00:38:32.120 Then you're then you're, th- you're lessening it. 00:38:32.560 --> 00:38:37.580 And I feel like that is the problem, is that, that we feel like we have to do everything. 00:38:38.160 --> 00:38:44.250 It is not possible to do everything, and we have to accept that we're not good enough to do everything. 00:38:44.260 --> 00:38:45.200 We're not that good. 00:38:45.730 --> 00:38:52.990 Well, I think it gets back to what I said in the beginning, is that you don't have to be everything if you've identified who you are. 00:38:53.740 --> 00:38:55.099 Because once you've id- but you do. 00:38:55.099 --> 00:38:55.959 You do, right? 00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:56.249 Well, hang on. 00:38:56.249 --> 00:39:18.229 And the parents are saying- Hang on But once you've identified who you are, now you can say, "This is why we don't do that. There there's a reason why we don't do that." But if it's not known upfront, and if there's not a place to do that within the district, within a private school, with- within sports leagues or whatever, these… 00:39:18.259 --> 00:39:22.259 You know, all the recreational leagues, then it becomes a problem. 00:39:22.269 --> 00:39:26.779 But the reality is there is a place for that, but you have to decide. 00:39:26.889 --> 00:39:35.979 You have to decide, "If you're coming to school here, this is who we are. No hard feelings if you don't wanna come." The b- listeners of this podcast will be familiar with the name Robert Pondiscio. 00:39:36.049 --> 00:39:45.799 Robert Pondiscio is a big advocate for classic education and, you know, just really, you know, knowledge base, cultural literacy, et cetera. 00:39:46.899 --> 00:39:56.649 And he said he moved his… They moved so his daughter could be in a better place for sports, because that's what the school was and that's what they wanted to do. 00:39:56.959 --> 00:40:02.119 And I think that's gonna be part of the issue, because we're, we need to let teachers know "This is who we are. 00:40:02.849 --> 00:40:07.639 This is what we do." This is… We have to let the parents know, "This is who we are. 00:40:07.739 --> 00:40:08.699 This is what we do. 00:40:08.979 --> 00:40:14.159 And by the way, these are all the things we don't do." But we can't do that. 00:40:14.429 --> 00:40:21.789 L- like, you c- can't just have agency, because you have to have a system of these schools where they can get what they need. 00:40:22.979 --> 00:40:32.809 Because if you're the only choice of the of a great place that's safe, that's K8 we're gonna run into these problems every time. 00:40:33.409 --> 00:40:33.809 Right. 00:40:33.839 --> 00:40:42.249 But I do think that it is absolutely a paradigm shift at the downtown level. 00:40:43.169 --> 00:40:45.759 You know, Like, I'll go to the, back to the custodial thing. 00:40:46.519 --> 00:40:55.379 You know, we should be allocated more custodial services and then maybe there's something else that we don't need. 00:40:55.379 --> 00:41:04.929 Like, like to me, and I, you know, again I've only used the sports thing because it's heavy on my heart, but if we could have the money that is allocated for sports 00:41:06.781 --> 00:41:08.161 And I know that they're different pots. 00:41:08.181 --> 00:41:12.761 I get… Like, to me, I, it, to me what would make sense is this is how much money every school gets. 00:41:12.761 --> 00:41:14.071 That's where the equity is. 00:41:14.611 --> 00:41:16.431 Every school gets X amount of dollars. 00:41:17.051 --> 00:41:23.461 Now, you use that money just to to acquire the things that support your mission. 00:41:24.171 --> 00:41:25.241 That's equitable. 00:41:26.081 --> 00:41:30.951 It's not equitable that at Bullard Talent we're expected to do everything that everybody else does. 00:41:31.731 --> 00:41:38.471 And like, for example, with sports, they don't pay for uniforms, they don't pay for travel costs, they don't pay for refs. 00:41:39.231 --> 00:41:39.991 Don't pay for anything. 00:41:41.791 --> 00:41:57.500 I, the bulk of my time is spent raising money You know, and Randy Berger, you know Randy, one of my favorite things that he says is that when you're a director, 90% of what you're doing is production work. 00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:00.500 The directing is the which is the best part. 00:42:00.510 --> 00:42:00.530 Yeah. 00:42:00.640 --> 00:42:01.640 That's the fun part. 00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:03.030 About 10% of what we do. 00:42:03.650 --> 00:42:08.600 Well, here's the irony of the sports that got in your way. 00:42:10.120 --> 00:42:14.170 If I had a stu- if I had a kid, let's say I've got a son who, or a d- a daughter. 00:42:14.550 --> 00:42:15.470 That's how old I am. 00:42:15.540 --> 00:42:15.920 Oh, wait. 00:42:16.340 --> 00:42:17.043 I'm thinking of a son. 00:42:17.043 --> 00:42:17.151 You do have a daughter. 00:42:17.151 --> 00:42:17.259 I do have a daughter. 00:42:17.259 --> 00:42:18.150 You do have a daughter. 00:42:18.270 --> 00:42:18.580 Okay. 00:42:18.720 --> 00:42:19.240 You do have a daughter. 00:42:19.250 --> 00:42:27.730 And wanted to be in basketball, and I'd say, "Honey, let's go look at the basketball court." And they'd say, "Well, there's no gym. 00:42:28.240 --> 00:42:31.870 I'm playing on asphalt." You're right. 00:42:31.930 --> 00:42:35.460 So, so there, the first- But we here's the trick, though. 00:42:35.460 --> 00:42:36.170 Here's the thing. 00:42:37.300 --> 00:42:53.000 I think people come to our school for sports because the reality is, and maybe this has changed since my kids were little, but when they were at Tenaya, for example if you weren't in club ball, if you weren't a club soccer player or a club ba- baseball player, you weren't gonna get on those teams. 00:42:53.530 --> 00:42:54.890 You could play at Bullard Talent. 00:42:55.140 --> 00:42:56.890 You could be… we win in our league. 00:42:57.080 --> 00:42:59.327 We we- We win in our league … we have a different division. 00:42:59.327 --> 00:43:00.927 We are in the different division. 00:43:00.927 --> 00:43:02.087 That's absolutely right. 00:43:02.087 --> 00:43:06.177 And so- A- and so to me, that is totally disingenuous anyway, you know? 00:43:06.287 --> 00:43:07.017 That's what I'm telling you. 00:43:07.057 --> 00:43:07.827 That's what I'm saying. 00:43:07.837 --> 00:43:08.917 That's what I'm trying to say. 00:43:08.977 --> 00:43:22.207 But that is such a, that is such a huge… I mean, people feel, the sportspeople feel… I shouldn't question it, because I feel just as strongly that they do that sports should be offered. 00:43:22.517 --> 00:43:25.807 To me, Bullard Talent cannot go any further 00:43:27.136 --> 00:43:45.886 Unless we stop offering sports and I'm gonna go broader than that, and I'm gonna agree with you, and they're not gonna stop offering sports until there are options for parents that provide the safety the good education, whatever good, whatever that means, that it's a good school- Right 00:43:46.346 --> 00:43:47.466 and that it's K8. 00:43:47.896 --> 00:44:05.666 So there have to be other options besides, "Oh, I'm going to this because I can, my kid can be… He's not good enough to be in a travel team but he's good enough to be in the lower level league on a school team." It can't… W- what I'm saying is it has to be a system of these schools. 00:44:05.736 --> 00:44:06.816 Yeah, I agree with you. 00:44:07.996 --> 00:44:09.356 Okay, it's time to stop then. 00:44:10.456 --> 00:44:12.836 Oh, I, you know, you can die happy now, right? 00:44:14.106 --> 00:44:15.136 I'm gonna write that down. 00:44:15.136 --> 00:44:15.176 I agree with you. 00:44:15.176 --> 00:44:16.116 I'm gonna write that down. 00:44:16.346 --> 00:44:17.546 Okay, so okay. 00:44:17.546 --> 00:44:19.006 So I've asked you a lot of questions, Jane. 00:44:19.006 --> 00:44:20.136 Do you have any questions for me? 00:44:20.516 --> 00:44:24.876 Okay, so, we're gonna generalize, this question. 00:44:24.876 --> 00:44:32.636 So let's assume that we have a fully developed thematic magnet specialty school program, and there's all kinds of options. 00:44:33.496 --> 00:44:41.006 And you would assume that there would be teachers, specialists a principal, you know, the traditional support staff. 00:44:41.526 --> 00:44:46.666 What is one position that you think every school should also have? 00:44:48.347 --> 00:44:54.177 It doesn't currently exist Oh, man To make, to m- to make these schools… I'll give you a hint. 00:44:54.187 --> 00:44:56.277 You did that for us when you were at Bullard Talent. 00:44:57.102 --> 00:45:00.112 tell me what you're thinking, and then I can give you my analysis of your answer. 00:45:00.262 --> 00:45:00.862 Okay. 00:45:01.022 --> 00:45:03.052 You, we always joked and said, "You look good in a suit." 00:45:03.092 --> 00:45:03.322 No. 00:45:03.662 --> 00:45:10.242 I think every single school needs somebody who is, their job is to do the PR for the school. 00:45:10.822 --> 00:45:14.562 Because I know myself, I know what needs to be done. 00:45:15.022 --> 00:45:16.392 I say this like I'm still working. 00:45:16.392 --> 00:45:16.832 I'm not. 00:45:17.132 --> 00:45:17.282 Yeah. 00:45:17.322 --> 00:45:19.442 I knew what needed to be done. 00:45:19.752 --> 00:45:21.302 I knew what needed to be done. 00:45:21.642 --> 00:45:30.852 There were not enough hours in the day for me to hustle, and I think part of the problem with thematic schools is that there's not enough hustling being done. 00:45:31.302 --> 00:45:34.382 And when you were at, I remember you got the first keyboard lab. 00:45:35.172 --> 00:45:39.812 You got it done because, and I'm not saying that you weren't doing anything, but you were not tied to a classroom. 00:45:39.822 --> 00:45:41.122 You were not tied to a group. 00:45:41.662 --> 00:45:44.012 So you could go and be the suit. 00:45:44.372 --> 00:45:45.912 You could go and be the face. 00:45:46.082 --> 00:45:47.222 You could go and represent us. 00:45:47.232 --> 00:45:52.082 So I think for these schools to be successful, they need a suit. 00:45:52.502 --> 00:45:57.302 They need somebody whose job is to promote the school so that, that mission is very clear. 00:45:57.492 --> 00:46:08.612 So, all, if all of these schools become, you know, the winning team and the whole bandwagon thing where people wanna go with the winning team, they wanna jump on that bandwagon, we need somebody to do that authentically. 00:46:09.192 --> 00:46:13.932 Authentically and I did that, and I was able to do that, and I was able to do that. 00:46:13.932 --> 00:46:14.772 You were good at it. 00:46:14.772 --> 00:46:17.712 You were very good at it … bec- b- well, because I believed in it so much. 00:46:18.202 --> 00:46:31.532 I mean, you know, my daughter came, we tried a couple years to get in the lottery, and she got in fourth grade, and she was, i'm gonna I don't usually use this kind of language, but she was quiet. 00:46:32.132 --> 00:46:37.642 In fact, my dad would say, "She wouldn't say shit if she had a mouthful." That's how quiet she was. 00:46:38.392 --> 00:46:38.792 I remember that. 00:46:38.952 --> 00:46:39.575 She was very quiet. 00:46:39.575 --> 00:46:40.032 She was. 00:46:40.102 --> 00:46:41.502 So she came in fourth grade. 00:46:42.692 --> 00:46:52.679 In a month and a half, there was a talent show that was for the entire community, and she was up there performing And I'm getting- But Cl- I'm getting emotional talking about it. 00:46:53.819 --> 00:46:55.389 Because- Well, 00:46:57.839 --> 00:47:01.194 I, let me let me interject something here too- Okay … 'cause it speaks to another really important thing. 00:47:01.734 --> 00:47:13.184 Obviously we have students that are underprivileged on a variety of levels, and we spend a lot of time on those kids. 00:47:14.034 --> 00:47:16.264 But Celeste is a really good example of a kid. 00:47:16.374 --> 00:47:18.694 She know … She comes from a good family. 00:47:19.314 --> 00:47:20.594 Her parents are resourced. 00:47:20.594 --> 00:47:22.154 Her parents are advocating for her. 00:47:22.644 --> 00:47:25.684 But here's a child who's very shy, and I have an example of a student. 00:47:25.684 --> 00:47:36.284 In fact he's going to college next year, and one of his questions for his college app was to write about a teacher who had ma- made an impact on him, and he wrote about me. 00:47:36.584 --> 00:47:40.668 This child was super bright- Fantastic family. 00:47:41.218 --> 00:47:42.688 I, he came to me in the sixth grade. 00:47:42.698 --> 00:47:45.648 He was so emotionally constipated. 00:47:46.358 --> 00:47:48.038 He could not step out. 00:47:48.038 --> 00:47:50.388 If he couldn't be perfect, he couldn't do it. 00:47:51.088 --> 00:47:57.528 And from the outside looking in, this child looked defiant, and he was like the furthest one could get. 00:47:57.528 --> 00:48:03.618 He was absolutely, totally, and completely compliant, but he could not step out of his space- Yeah 00:48:03.688 --> 00:48:03.998 enough. 00:48:04.048 --> 00:48:06.128 He is gonna be successful no matter what he does. 00:48:06.428 --> 00:48:09.228 Whether he gets a lead in the show or not is irrelevant. 00:48:09.888 --> 00:48:15.858 But when I was able to have the opportunity to work… And again, this is a resource kid. 00:48:15.858 --> 00:48:16.828 This is not a poor kid. 00:48:16.828 --> 00:48:18.258 This is not a disadvantaged kid. 00:48:18.538 --> 00:48:21.368 This is a kid who's got it all already, and he's gonna be just fine. 00:48:21.868 --> 00:48:35.678 But to be able to help him through that emotional constipation, to step out of the perfectionism that was crippling, that shut him down to where he couldn't do anything w- the these programs allow… And it's not just, you know, Buller Talent. 00:48:36.018 --> 00:48:45.438 When you have kids that are doing something that they like, that they're engaged in, and it matters to them, then you can take them on regardless of whether they're disadvantaged or advantaged. 00:48:45.678 --> 00:48:48.088 And, a- and to me, Celeste was like that. 00:48:48.088 --> 00:48:48.408 Mm-hmm. 00:48:48.458 --> 00:48:53.398 It's not it's not just about… That we affected kids from all walks of life. 00:48:53.578 --> 00:49:03.958 There was another kid I remember who just a dad was a doctor, and he you know, came across, the kid came across super arrogant, whatever, and we didn't take him in groups when he was younger. 00:49:04.328 --> 00:49:08.238 And i- in the eighth grade, it was like we totally turned this kid around. 00:49:08.538 --> 00:49:10.118 Totally turned this kid around. 00:49:10.558 --> 00:49:13.388 And it's like to me, those are the satisfying things. 00:49:13.398 --> 00:49:18.548 And it's, I can tell you the same thing about a child that's, you know, that struggled and struggled. 00:49:18.798 --> 00:49:28.438 And I w- doing the middle school play was always my favorite thing, to have you know, the kindergarten teacher say, "Oh my God, that's the kid who cried every day for 95 days," you know? 00:49:28.438 --> 00:49:29.638 And they're up there doing this. 00:49:29.638 --> 00:49:32.588 There, there were so many success stories. 00:49:32.798 --> 00:49:45.708 And I think it, one other thing is that it's so critical to have leadership that absolutely believes that it, whatever your program is, in the case of Buller Talent, the Virgin Performing Arts, that it is life-changing. 00:49:46.188 --> 00:49:47.358 That it is life-changing. 00:49:47.358 --> 00:49:49.308 And that does not mean you need to be a performer. 00:49:49.798 --> 00:49:51.228 A patron is just fine. 00:49:51.518 --> 00:50:03.818 You have to believe with your heart that whatever your specialty is, that it is going to open doors and change this person for good, you know? 00:50:03.838 --> 00:50:12.606 And if you don't have that at the top- and that coloring everything that happens at this school, you're not gonna succeed. 00:50:13.096 --> 00:50:13.546 Amen. 00:50:13.946 --> 00:50:14.456 Amen. 00:50:15.276 --> 00:50:22.726 Jane, it has been wonderful having an opportunity to talk to you and and to see you even though it's virtually. 00:50:23.206 --> 00:50:23.456 I know. 00:50:23.456 --> 00:50:23.476 Mm-hmm. 00:50:23.546 --> 00:50:25.546 And I hope we'll be able to talk again soon. 00:50:26.386 --> 00:50:26.966 All righty. 00:50:26.966 --> 00:50:33.296 Well, thank you for having me, and I agree with you, Buller Talent is a very special place, and my hope is that it continues. 00:50:36.890 --> 00:50:39.530 Gene Tavernetti: If you're enjoying these podcasts, tell a friend. 00:50:39.830 --> 00:50:45.400 Also, please leave a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. 00:50:46.090 --> 00:50:56.170 You can follow me on BlueSky at gTabernetti, on Twitter, x at gTabernetti, and you can learn more about me and the work I do at my website, BlueSky. 00:50:56.580 --> 00:50:57.010 Tesscg. 00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:13.370 com, that's T E S S C G dot com, where you will also find information about ordering my books, Teach Fast, Focus Adaptable Structure Teaching, and Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles.