1
00:00:02,574 --> 00:00:04,915
James, what an absolute pleasure.

2
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I've got to tell you, I've been looking
forward to this meeting.

3
00:00:08,407 --> 00:00:11,508
There are so many rabbit holes that we're
going to jump in today.

4
00:00:11,508 --> 00:00:13,569
I'll give you a fair warning right now.

5
00:00:13,569 --> 00:00:18,181
And to our audience, tell that James is
one of the, I think, most interesting

6
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people that I have had the pleasure to
talk to because he's done so many

7
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interesting things.

8
00:00:36,844 --> 00:00:55,363
You started by cutting hair.

9
00:00:55,624 --> 00:00:57,924
you found yourself at the top of the
organization.

10
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That is a

11
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impressive advancement process.

12
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found myself in my first advisory role at
that point, worked with upper management

13
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and really helped shape what we were
building, went from 19 locations up to 63

14
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locations in the Denver metro area.

15
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It was a cost cutters franchise and ended
up working with one of the most

16
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inspirational couple, husband and wife
team at the time, Craig and Laura Evans.

17
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Just really inspirational, really believed
in their people, ton of trust, really

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believed in making sure that what you say
you're gonna do, you do, and you walk that

19
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talk.

20
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And so I just, have to have most respect
for them.

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But yeah, was a great, great journey.

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And it was the beginning of a wild ride,
for sure.

23
00:02:03,672 --> 00:02:09,043
You've got to share some of your tricks
and tips because how do you become from a

24
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basically, you know, cutting hair to a
senior executive?

25
00:02:25,904 --> 00:02:31,004
Yeah, I think really is to have the
confidence, number one, because we're

26
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going to have a lot of self doubt, right?

27
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So self doubt is something that's bred
within us.

28
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But having that confidence to have the
conversation, the tough conversations.

29
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mean, I was I think I was 19 years old as
a manager.

30
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My assistant manager was 43.

31
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And on top of that, he was six foot seven.

32
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And so when you when you're having a
conversation like this, you know, it

33
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really you really got to keep, you know,
keep in mind that

34
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you know, the people that you're working
with are working just as hard as you are.

35
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Right.

36
00:02:58,607 --> 00:03:03,717
so, you know, looking back that I, did I
understand I was leaving from behind?

37
00:03:03,717 --> 00:03:08,290
No, but I did definitely at the time I
believed in, in getting the results

38
00:03:08,290 --> 00:03:08,940
through other people.

39
00:03:08,940 --> 00:03:11,921
Cause one, didn't want to work that hard.

40
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and two, just felt that having the
relationships really, we're began to pay

41
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off.

42
00:03:17,922 --> 00:03:23,984
one of my first kind of, outings that I
did as a, as a, as a manager.

43
00:03:23,984 --> 00:03:29,524
was I rented a limo and took the staff up
to Black Hawk when it first opened.

44
00:03:29,964 --> 00:03:45,664
So that was something that was unheard of
just being able to do those types of

45
00:03:45,664 --> 00:03:48,524
things, things that kind of outrageous a
little bit.

46
00:03:48,524 --> 00:03:51,812
And at the time I was starting a rap
career.

47
00:03:51,812 --> 00:03:56,999
which that doesn't hurt as far as for
having fun, right?

48
00:04:04,364 --> 00:04:09,647
So leading from behind, what does that
mean?

49
00:04:09,827 --> 00:04:10,667
And how do you do it?

50
00:04:10,667 --> 00:04:11,848
And why is it

51
00:04:14,225 --> 00:04:20,490
it's really about gathering the talents of
the people around you and letting them

52
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feel the success of those talents.

53
00:04:23,493 --> 00:04:28,837
So to me, leading from behind was a new
concept that I learned back then through

54
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the several training sessions that our
organization was put through.

55
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Four roles of leadership, seven habits of
how they affect the people.

56
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Those are things that all talk about that
style of leadership and really

57
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really, you're not, it's not a top -down
style of management.

58
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know, when a young manager can tell the
franchisee of his organization, get the

59
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hell out of my store and still have a job
after saying that, you know, they really,

60
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they really embraced that level of
ownership and they really encouraged it.

61
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Craig used to go around in in a t -shirt
and with, you know, he'd fill up pop

62
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machines.

63
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You know, that was his job as, the owner.

64
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Right.

65
00:05:25,908 --> 00:05:30,299
he was saying that no job is, is too, you
know, too low for anybody to do.

66
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Everybody needs to pitch in and get the
job

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you said something super weird.

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You said that you were lazy.

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Well, it's the old adage of working
smarter, not harder.

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So yes, we all have to accomplish the same
task, but what's the, what's the easiest,

71
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quickest, least path of resistance way to
get the task done?

72
00:06:58,542 --> 00:07:40,916
so that you have time to do more tasks,

73
00:07:40,916 --> 00:07:45,499
Yeah, I tell my kids that there's two ways
to be successful in life.

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You can either work incredibly hard or you
can be incredibly smart.

75
00:07:51,282 --> 00:07:56,024
And the incredibly smart one is about not
working hard and as you say, unquote,

76
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being lazy, But I tell them, look, you
can't be dumb and lazy, right?

77
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And you have to maintain your ambition,
right?

78
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So I think that was the other thing.

79
00:08:31,131 --> 00:08:38,743
And, and simultaneously as I was, you
know, moving up within the ranks of cost

80
00:08:38,743 --> 00:08:43,205
cutters, you know, like I mentioned that I
had a rap career off to the side.

81
00:08:43,205 --> 00:08:48,536
Well, you know, Fabian Garcia, DJ fame
from here in, in Colorado, Deuce Mob,

82
00:08:48,536 --> 00:08:54,544
Denver, you know, and I was AWB, but you
know, he was a gentleman

83
00:08:54,544 --> 00:08:58,144
you know, he was kind of an older brother
to me when I came to town and really his

84
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integrity and his his work ethic and his
ambition really like took off early for

85
00:09:04,564 --> 00:09:05,404
his hit for him.

86
00:09:05,404 --> 00:09:06,904
And I kind of began to follow that.

87
00:09:06,904 --> 00:09:09,924
And I was able to draw on those
experiences and really bring them back

88
00:09:09,924 --> 00:09:14,724
into the business world because I was
really seeing the full gamut of different

89
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types of experiences.

90
00:09:15,764 --> 00:09:16,404
Right.

91
00:09:16,404 --> 00:09:22,064
So it's, you know, one minute you're at
work working hard, you know, 40 hours a

92
00:09:22,064 --> 00:09:22,596
week.

93
00:09:22,596 --> 00:09:25,189
then the next minute you're like, hey, I
got to take a week off because I'm about

94
00:09:25,189 --> 00:09:26,521
to go on tour.

95
00:09:26,521 --> 00:09:31,837
And so those kind of experiences, they'll
allow you to come back and you can kind of

96
00:09:31,837 --> 00:09:37,574
talk about the efforts and things that
you've done back in the salon.

97
00:09:37,574 --> 00:09:42,520
it gives you good conversation and you can
really lead by example in that sense.

98
00:09:48,266 --> 00:09:54,594
Tell us a few of the crazy things that you
had to deal with and specifically in the

99
00:09:54,594 --> 00:09:59,470
places where you kind of had to change
minds in the music career and bring that

100
00:09:59,470 --> 00:10:02,424
back to a business sense and how those two
worlds

101
00:10:06,954 --> 00:10:10,056
we were a songwriting team.

102
00:10:10,056 --> 00:10:16,710
So my first challenge was I had to
impress, him, you know, the other original

103
00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:21,323
member of the group, Paul, the other
original member of the group, Velo.

104
00:10:21,323 --> 00:11:00,450
These are all guys that were my older than
me.

105
00:11:00,450 --> 00:11:06,482
I had to actually like lock in and be
like, okay, I have to impress, right?

106
00:11:06,482 --> 00:11:13,143
So if I have to, have to be able to, you
know, take the world around me and kind of

107
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like make it my world.

108
00:11:15,344 --> 00:11:20,225
And when I take that back to the salon
environment, it's the same, it's the same

109
00:11:20,225 --> 00:11:21,756
thing, but it's just different, right?

110
00:11:21,756 --> 00:11:26,047
So when you go do in a salon environment,
I'm here to help you feel better.

111
00:11:26,047 --> 00:11:28,698
When you leave my chair, you feel better
than when you sat down.

112
00:11:28,698 --> 00:11:30,008
I did my

113
00:11:30,008 --> 00:11:31,329
Right.

114
00:11:31,329 --> 00:11:36,182
But in, you know, in the other studio
world and the rap world, you might get in

115
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the fight.

116
00:11:36,872 --> 00:11:40,654
might, you know, there might be there
might be some things that go awry just

117
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because you got egos, you got a lot of
different things and there's there's

118
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politics involved.

119
00:11:45,497 --> 00:11:48,039
So you really got to kind of learn that
navigational.

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00:11:48,039 --> 00:11:52,632
And so what I believe that I did well was
just being able to navigate.

121
00:11:52,632 --> 00:11:56,904
And so as I navigated kind of both, I, you

122
00:11:57,232 --> 00:12:00,354
I kind of like had to deal with a lot of
that self doubt because you're constantly

123
00:12:00,354 --> 00:12:00,914
in self doubt.

124
00:12:00,914 --> 00:12:02,385
Like how did that land?

125
00:12:02,385 --> 00:12:06,678
that, they okay with that or, you know,
and so you, but what you find is that over

126
00:12:06,678 --> 00:12:08,720
time, that's just how you present
yourself.

127
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,732
And you kind of end up with this, this
single persona that, kind of can get you

128
00:12:12,732 --> 00:12:14,304
into a lot of different places.

129
00:12:14,304 --> 00:12:17,205
You know, it's nothing for you to be in
front of a billionaire or be in front of

130
00:12:17,205 --> 00:12:19,607
somebody that, you know, doesn't even have
a job.

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00:12:19,607 --> 00:12:24,330
I mean, you can really run that full gamut
and the, the, the better you can navigate

132
00:12:24,330 --> 00:12:27,074
that, you know, it's just going to be.

133
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successful for

134
00:12:29,936 --> 00:12:33,116
this is an incredibly common situation,
right?

135
00:12:33,116 --> 00:12:38,456
As a mid -career or early career, you're
working with people who are 10, 20 years

136
00:12:38,456 --> 00:12:45,276
older than you with a lot of experience,
but you have your own point of view.

137
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:09,640
Well, I think you have to approach it and
wanting to discover something about them,

138
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:10,240
right?

139
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,820
Because we all like to talk about
ourselves.

140
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,260
You know, so you got to discover something
about them.

141
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:22,300
what I found myself in was, you know, I
had a assistant manager when I was 19, 20

142
00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:26,340
years old, my assistant manager was 47
years old and he was six foot seven.

143
00:13:26,340 --> 00:13:30,160
So I followed constantly found myself kind
of looking up, like telling him, Hey man,

144
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:31,440
I need you to do this.

145
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:32,380
Um,

146
00:13:32,526 --> 00:13:36,548
really the fact that I didn't make him
feel bad or I didn't like talk down on him

147
00:13:36,548 --> 00:13:37,579
or anything like that.

148
00:13:37,579 --> 00:13:43,382
I really put myself in a spot to say, hey,
I need you to, I need you to give me some

149
00:13:43,382 --> 00:13:43,892
advice here.

150
00:13:43,892 --> 00:13:44,903
What do you think?

151
00:13:44,903 --> 00:13:45,283
Right?

152
00:13:45,283 --> 00:13:49,916
Because if you do that one step, as soon
as somebody knows how much you care about

153
00:13:49,916 --> 00:13:53,978
them, then they're going to, you know,
they're going to be more or less want to

154
00:13:53,978 --> 00:13:57,200
find out like how, can they serve you at
that point?

155
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,604
Because you're, you're, you're giving them
something

156
00:14:01,604 --> 00:14:05,636
Maybe nobody else has given them or, you
know, life has a lot of twists and turns,

157
00:14:05,636 --> 00:14:05,897
right?

158
00:14:05,897 --> 00:14:09,891
So you don't know where you end up or how
you end up in the spot that you're in.

159
00:14:09,891 --> 00:14:15,195
And I think when you when you really stop
back and think like, OK, everybody around

160
00:14:15,195 --> 00:14:16,997
me has a story.

161
00:14:16,997 --> 00:14:20,980
And as soon as you think you have the
worst story, someone else has even worse

162
00:14:20,980 --> 00:14:25,223
story.

163
00:14:25,223 --> 00:14:30,437
But, you know, I think I think really the
tip and the trick that I would say is is

164
00:14:30,437 --> 00:14:31,778
to really listen.

165
00:14:31,888 --> 00:14:34,568
and really seek for the guidance from
them.

166
00:14:34,568 --> 00:14:38,188
So even if they're quote unquote a
subordinate or, or, know, they're, they're

167
00:14:38,188 --> 00:14:39,528
on your team.

168
00:14:39,528 --> 00:14:45,648
You know, my biggest success piece as a
salon manager was the Thornton town

169
00:14:45,648 --> 00:14:46,008
center.

170
00:14:46,008 --> 00:14:50,788
It used to be across from bigs and, know,
which was an old kind of like before there

171
00:14:50,788 --> 00:14:56,328
was a super Walmart, if you will, 26
checkout stands, you know, nonstop coming

172
00:14:56,328 --> 00:14:56,728
in.

173
00:14:56,728 --> 00:15:01,296
did, you know, $17 ,000 a week in,

174
00:15:01,296 --> 00:15:02,636
1195 haircuts.

175
00:15:02,636 --> 00:15:07,236
mean, you know, we're talking big numbers,
and we have so much trust built amongst

176
00:15:07,236 --> 00:15:08,276
our team.

177
00:15:08,276 --> 00:15:15,396
On a Saturday, I could go in their drawer,
take mountain of cash out of their view,

178
00:15:15,396 --> 00:15:18,876
count it all out, come back with, you
know, change it into the drawer and then

179
00:15:18,876 --> 00:15:23,496
come back with a $20 bill or 50 or
whatever, you know, like hundreds,

180
00:15:23,496 --> 00:15:24,336
whatever.

181
00:15:24,336 --> 00:15:27,118
But if that trust wasn't there,

182
00:15:27,118 --> 00:15:27,939
I wouldn't be able to do it.

183
00:15:27,939 --> 00:15:31,593
So that's another tip is really try to
establish trust early because the quicker

184
00:15:31,593 --> 00:15:36,039
you can establish trust, there's a, you
know, a low cost to high trust.

185
00:15:36,039 --> 00:15:36,409
Right.

186
00:15:36,409 --> 00:15:40,903
So that's another cubbyism, you know,

187
00:17:28,922 --> 00:17:34,804
I am incredibly grateful and appreciate
people who give back to their community.

188
00:17:34,804 --> 00:17:36,848
And you did some

189
00:17:36,848 --> 00:17:38,630
Camp counseling.

190
00:17:39,092 --> 00:17:44,358
Tell us about that and tell us what the
camp actually did and what was your

191
00:17:52,388 --> 00:17:57,988
one of the things that we were instilled
in, say we, me and my best friend from

192
00:17:57,988 --> 00:18:06,608
like the second grade, Lance and his
mother, Dorothy Taylor, who's now she's

193
00:18:06,608 --> 00:18:08,428
like congressional award winner.

194
00:18:08,428 --> 00:18:12,868
And she's got her own Sister Soldiers
Network at 80 years old.

195
00:18:12,868 --> 00:18:14,448
I just went to her

196
00:18:15,148 --> 00:18:18,511
But she always believed in community
service once a month or once a, excuse me,

197
00:18:18,511 --> 00:18:20,412
during the summer when we were out of
school.

198
00:18:20,653 --> 00:18:25,547
And so, you know, one of things I did was
I had to learn, we had to learn how to

199
00:18:25,547 --> 00:18:30,301
teach children with cerebral palsy how to
swim.

200
00:18:30,301 --> 00:18:34,585
And I was just a summer program, swim
program, and they needed volunteers and,

201
00:18:34,585 --> 00:18:36,777
you know, they had a youth program that
would help that.

202
00:18:36,777 --> 00:18:39,349
So I started doing it there.

203
00:18:39,349 --> 00:18:43,396
And then as I kind of, you know, got
further along in high school

204
00:18:43,396 --> 00:18:56,383
My mom got me more involved with
Friendship Camp and basically what we did

205
00:18:56,383 --> 00:19:04,808
is we took inner city kids into Black
Forest, Colorado La Foray Camp and put on

206
00:19:04,808 --> 00:19:22,677
a camp.

207
00:19:22,677 --> 00:19:28,900
we found ourselves as camp counselors just
giving the kids that camp experience.

208
00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:34,064
And really just for that one week, it's
like a break from their life, right?

209
00:19:34,064 --> 00:19:38,676
Being able to not have to worry about
those things, team building exercises,

210
00:19:38,676 --> 00:19:42,490
crafts, somebody would play the guitar.

211
00:19:42,490 --> 00:19:43,861
I was starting to get into music.

212
00:19:43,861 --> 00:19:49,594
didn't know how far I would get into it,
we would do jam sessions with trash cans

213
00:19:49,594 --> 00:19:55,027
upside down and we would just have really
real fun events.

214
00:19:55,027 --> 00:20:02,331
But really also deep in the faith and did
have some real strong stories around that.

215
00:20:02,331 --> 00:20:04,582
And really it was great program.

216
00:20:04,582 --> 00:20:07,394
So I was involved with it for a few years.

217
00:20:07,394 --> 00:20:08,845
We all got a chance to direct.

218
00:20:08,845 --> 00:20:11,975
So was kind of a...

219
00:20:12,208 --> 00:20:17,508
a rotation and you know, it was a group of
probably about 20, 25 people that were

220
00:20:17,508 --> 00:20:18,148
involved with it.

221
00:20:18,148 --> 00:20:45,842
Just really great, great people.

222
00:20:45,842 --> 00:20:50,866
that's when I worked in with Year One,
which was a youth organization for at

223
00:20:50,866 --> 00:20:51,496
-risk youth.

224
00:20:51,496 --> 00:20:54,339
And I also worked for Denver Public
Schools.

225
00:20:54,339 --> 00:21:00,164
And we did, you know, for Denver Public
Schools, I was a tutor, paraprofessional,

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and worked with kids to help with their
math skills.

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And, you know, these were for nonviolent
offenders.

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And so I've always, I've always believed
in giving back, really just trying to

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trying to be that role model, but also
trying to give back to the community in

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whatever way I can.

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How do you feel that these experiences
have changed

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Well, it's funny.

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What it it prepared me for later in life,
which I had no idea was I was going to

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meet my son's mother and my son's mother
had already had a child with cerebral

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palsy.

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Strea, she's my daughter.

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just that whole experience, puts you in
and puts it puts it in a spot where it's

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like, okay, had I never had that
experience young, I may not have ever

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taken the risk as an adult, if that makes

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you are now founder CEO of a coaching
business.

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tell us a little bit about the business

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My father was a man of integrity.

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My father, Al Rowe, he was a,

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He was a narcotics officer, right?

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But he was within the the the military
right?

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So he's a CID with the army and That was
the first career in his later career was

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in DoD.

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He did He's part of the deputy G's office.

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So he's really you know, we just call him
the last Boy Scout, right?

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he was just super integrity filled man and
we went to Amsterdam one year and you

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know, we were sitting in Amsterdam at a
bar

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know, partaking of the things that
Amsterdamians do.

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And at the time, I felt like I was
loosening up and I was able to say, hey,

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you know, I feel like I can talk to you
now.

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I feel like I can be myself now.

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And he would just stop.

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And he just started just pounding on that
bar.

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He's like, I need you to be as real as
this bar right here.

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If you're not this real, you're not, you
know, you, haven't figured it out or

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something of that effect.

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And those words really stuck with me.

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I want to wrap up with a last question.

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For our younger audience that look at you
and see the amazing career growth that

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you've had, what is the one

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or piece of advice that you would give

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persistence and perseverance You got to
pursue it and you got to stay persistent

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Because you're gonna get doors shut in
your face.

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You're good and they're gonna tell you no
But you only need that one.

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Yes Right, so you you got to continue to
move forward towards that one.

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Yes, and we're always looking for the next
yes, right?

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So we're always looking for that So the
piece of advice that I would say is you

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know, it's actually easier to make

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than it was years ago.

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But the struggle is what I call the Lego
economy.

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So when you think of a Lego set, you need
a lot of bricks in those Legos to build

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that wall, right?

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So to me, you you need in this gig economy
or, know, in the Lego economy, as I call

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it, is you need to be able to stack those
together.

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So don't be afraid to work.

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Don't be afraid to, you know, put in the
effort

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Never stop believing, just stay forward
and stay focused.

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James, thank you so much.

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I appreciate

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All right, appreciate you as well.

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Thank you.