James, what an absolute pleasure.
I've got to tell you, I've been looking forward to this meeting.
There are so many rabbit holes that we're going to jump in today.
I'll give you a fair warning right now.
And to our audience, tell that James is one of the, I think, most interesting
people that I have had the pleasure to talk to because he's done so many
interesting things.
You started by cutting hair.
you found yourself at the top of the organization.
That is a
impressive advancement process.
found myself in my first advisory role at that point, worked with upper management
and really helped shape what we were building, went from 19 locations up to 63
locations in the Denver metro area.
It was a cost cutters franchise and ended up working with one of the most
inspirational couple, husband and wife team at the time, Craig and Laura Evans.
Just really inspirational, really believed in their people, ton of trust, really
believed in making sure that what you say you're gonna do, you do, and you walk that
talk.
And so I just, have to have most respect for them.
But yeah, was a great, great journey.
And it was the beginning of a wild ride, for sure.
You've got to share some of your tricks and tips because how do you become from a
basically, you know, cutting hair to a senior executive?
Yeah, I think really is to have the confidence, number one, because we're
going to have a lot of self doubt, right?
So self doubt is something that's bred within us.
But having that confidence to have the conversation, the tough conversations.
mean, I was I think I was 19 years old as a manager.
My assistant manager was 43.
And on top of that, he was six foot seven.
And so when you when you're having a conversation like this, you know, it
really you really got to keep, you know, keep in mind that
you know, the people that you're working with are working just as hard as you are.
Right.
so, you know, looking back that I, did I understand I was leaving from behind?
No, but I did definitely at the time I believed in, in getting the results
through other people.
Cause one, didn't want to work that hard.
and two, just felt that having the relationships really, we're began to pay
off.
one of my first kind of, outings that I did as a, as a, as a manager.
was I rented a limo and took the staff up to Black Hawk when it first opened.
So that was something that was unheard of just being able to do those types of
things, things that kind of outrageous a little bit.
And at the time I was starting a rap career.
which that doesn't hurt as far as for having fun, right?
So leading from behind, what does that mean?
And how do you do it?
And why is it
it's really about gathering the talents of the people around you and letting them
feel the success of those talents.
So to me, leading from behind was a new concept that I learned back then through
the several training sessions that our organization was put through.
Four roles of leadership, seven habits of how they affect the people.
Those are things that all talk about that style of leadership and really
really, you're not, it's not a top -down style of management.
know, when a young manager can tell the franchisee of his organization, get the
hell out of my store and still have a job after saying that, you know, they really,
they really embraced that level of ownership and they really encouraged it.
Craig used to go around in in a t -shirt and with, you know, he'd fill up pop
machines.
You know, that was his job as, the owner.
Right.
he was saying that no job is, is too, you know, too low for anybody to do.
Everybody needs to pitch in and get the job
you said something super weird.
You said that you were lazy.
Well, it's the old adage of working smarter, not harder.
So yes, we all have to accomplish the same task, but what's the, what's the easiest,
quickest, least path of resistance way to get the task done?
so that you have time to do more tasks,
Yeah, I tell my kids that there's two ways to be successful in life.
You can either work incredibly hard or you can be incredibly smart.
And the incredibly smart one is about not working hard and as you say, unquote,
being lazy, But I tell them, look, you can't be dumb and lazy, right?
And you have to maintain your ambition, right?
So I think that was the other thing.
And, and simultaneously as I was, you know, moving up within the ranks of cost
cutters, you know, like I mentioned that I had a rap career off to the side.
Well, you know, Fabian Garcia, DJ fame from here in, in Colorado, Deuce Mob,
Denver, you know, and I was AWB, but you know, he was a gentleman
you know, he was kind of an older brother to me when I came to town and really his
integrity and his his work ethic and his ambition really like took off early for
his hit for him.
And I kind of began to follow that.
And I was able to draw on those experiences and really bring them back
into the business world because I was really seeing the full gamut of different
types of experiences.
Right.
So it's, you know, one minute you're at work working hard, you know, 40 hours a
week.
then the next minute you're like, hey, I got to take a week off because I'm about
to go on tour.
And so those kind of experiences, they'll allow you to come back and you can kind of
talk about the efforts and things that you've done back in the salon.
it gives you good conversation and you can really lead by example in that sense.
Tell us a few of the crazy things that you had to deal with and specifically in the
places where you kind of had to change minds in the music career and bring that
back to a business sense and how those two worlds
we were a songwriting team.
So my first challenge was I had to impress, him, you know, the other original
member of the group, Paul, the other original member of the group, Velo.
These are all guys that were my older than me.
I had to actually like lock in and be like, okay, I have to impress, right?
So if I have to, have to be able to, you know, take the world around me and kind of
like make it my world.
And when I take that back to the salon environment, it's the same, it's the same
thing, but it's just different, right?
So when you go do in a salon environment, I'm here to help you feel better.
When you leave my chair, you feel better than when you sat down.
I did my
Right.
But in, you know, in the other studio world and the rap world, you might get in
the fight.
might, you know, there might be there might be some things that go awry just
because you got egos, you got a lot of different things and there's there's
politics involved.
So you really got to kind of learn that navigational.
And so what I believe that I did well was just being able to navigate.
And so as I navigated kind of both, I, you
I kind of like had to deal with a lot of that self doubt because you're constantly
in self doubt.
Like how did that land?
that, they okay with that or, you know, and so you, but what you find is that over
time, that's just how you present yourself.
And you kind of end up with this, this single persona that, kind of can get you
into a lot of different places.
You know, it's nothing for you to be in front of a billionaire or be in front of
somebody that, you know, doesn't even have a job.
I mean, you can really run that full gamut and the, the, the better you can navigate
that, you know, it's just going to be.
successful for
this is an incredibly common situation, right?
As a mid -career or early career, you're working with people who are 10, 20 years
older than you with a lot of experience, but you have your own point of view.
Well, I think you have to approach it and wanting to discover something about them,
right?
Because we all like to talk about ourselves.
You know, so you got to discover something about them.
what I found myself in was, you know, I had a assistant manager when I was 19, 20
years old, my assistant manager was 47 years old and he was six foot seven.
So I followed constantly found myself kind of looking up, like telling him, Hey man,
I need you to do this.
Um,
really the fact that I didn't make him feel bad or I didn't like talk down on him
or anything like that.
I really put myself in a spot to say, hey, I need you to, I need you to give me some
advice here.
What do you think?
Right?
Because if you do that one step, as soon as somebody knows how much you care about
them, then they're going to, you know, they're going to be more or less want to
find out like how, can they serve you at that point?
Because you're, you're, you're giving them something
Maybe nobody else has given them or, you know, life has a lot of twists and turns,
right?
So you don't know where you end up or how you end up in the spot that you're in.
And I think when you when you really stop back and think like, OK, everybody around
me has a story.
And as soon as you think you have the worst story, someone else has even worse
story.
But, you know, I think I think really the tip and the trick that I would say is is
to really listen.
and really seek for the guidance from them.
So even if they're quote unquote a subordinate or, or, know, they're, they're
on your team.
You know, my biggest success piece as a salon manager was the Thornton town
center.
It used to be across from bigs and, know, which was an old kind of like before there
was a super Walmart, if you will, 26 checkout stands, you know, nonstop coming
in.
did, you know, $17 ,000 a week in,
1195 haircuts.
mean, you know, we're talking big numbers, and we have so much trust built amongst
our team.
On a Saturday, I could go in their drawer, take mountain of cash out of their view,
count it all out, come back with, you know, change it into the drawer and then
come back with a $20 bill or 50 or whatever, you know, like hundreds,
whatever.
But if that trust wasn't there,
I wouldn't be able to do it.
So that's another tip is really try to establish trust early because the quicker
you can establish trust, there's a, you know, a low cost to high trust.
Right.
So that's another cubbyism, you know,
I am incredibly grateful and appreciate people who give back to their community.
And you did some
Camp counseling.
Tell us about that and tell us what the camp actually did and what was your
one of the things that we were instilled in, say we, me and my best friend from
like the second grade, Lance and his mother, Dorothy Taylor, who's now she's
like congressional award winner.
And she's got her own Sister Soldiers Network at 80 years old.
I just went to her
But she always believed in community service once a month or once a, excuse me,
during the summer when we were out of school.
And so, you know, one of things I did was I had to learn, we had to learn how to
teach children with cerebral palsy how to swim.
And I was just a summer program, swim program, and they needed volunteers and,
you know, they had a youth program that would help that.
So I started doing it there.
And then as I kind of, you know, got further along in high school
My mom got me more involved with Friendship Camp and basically what we did
is we took inner city kids into Black Forest, Colorado La Foray Camp and put on
a camp.
we found ourselves as camp counselors just giving the kids that camp experience.
And really just for that one week, it's like a break from their life, right?
Being able to not have to worry about those things, team building exercises,
crafts, somebody would play the guitar.
I was starting to get into music.
didn't know how far I would get into it, we would do jam sessions with trash cans
upside down and we would just have really real fun events.
But really also deep in the faith and did have some real strong stories around that.
And really it was great program.
So I was involved with it for a few years.
We all got a chance to direct.
So was kind of a...
a rotation and you know, it was a group of probably about 20, 25 people that were
involved with it.
Just really great, great people.
that's when I worked in with Year One, which was a youth organization for at
-risk youth.
And I also worked for Denver Public Schools.
And we did, you know, for Denver Public Schools, I was a tutor, paraprofessional,
and worked with kids to help with their math skills.
And, you know, these were for nonviolent offenders.
And so I've always, I've always believed in giving back, really just trying to
trying to be that role model, but also trying to give back to the community in
whatever way I can.
How do you feel that these experiences have changed
Well, it's funny.
What it it prepared me for later in life, which I had no idea was I was going to
meet my son's mother and my son's mother had already had a child with cerebral
palsy.
Strea, she's my daughter.
just that whole experience, puts you in and puts it puts it in a spot where it's
like, okay, had I never had that experience young, I may not have ever
taken the risk as an adult, if that makes
you are now founder CEO of a coaching business.
tell us a little bit about the business
My father was a man of integrity.
My father, Al Rowe, he was a,
He was a narcotics officer, right?
But he was within the the the military right?
So he's a CID with the army and That was the first career in his later career was
in DoD.
He did He's part of the deputy G's office.
So he's really you know, we just call him the last Boy Scout, right?
he was just super integrity filled man and we went to Amsterdam one year and you
know, we were sitting in Amsterdam at a bar
know, partaking of the things that Amsterdamians do.
And at the time, I felt like I was loosening up and I was able to say, hey,
you know, I feel like I can talk to you now.
I feel like I can be myself now.
And he would just stop.
And he just started just pounding on that bar.
He's like, I need you to be as real as this bar right here.
If you're not this real, you're not, you know, you, haven't figured it out or
something of that effect.
And those words really stuck with me.
I want to wrap up with a last question.
For our younger audience that look at you and see the amazing career growth that
you've had, what is the one
or piece of advice that you would give
persistence and perseverance You got to pursue it and you got to stay persistent
Because you're gonna get doors shut in your face.
You're good and they're gonna tell you no But you only need that one.
Yes Right, so you you got to continue to move forward towards that one.
Yes, and we're always looking for the next yes, right?
So we're always looking for that So the piece of advice that I would say is you
know, it's actually easier to make
than it was years ago.
But the struggle is what I call the Lego economy.
So when you think of a Lego set, you need a lot of bricks in those Legos to build
that wall, right?
So to me, you you need in this gig economy or, know, in the Lego economy, as I call
it, is you need to be able to stack those together.
So don't be afraid to work.
Don't be afraid to, you know, put in the effort
Never stop believing, just stay forward and stay focused.
James, thank you so much.
I appreciate
All right, appreciate you as well.
Thank you.