WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.670 Mark Butler: Hello, my name is Mark Butler and you are listening 00:00:02.670 --> 00:00:05.109 to a podcast for coaches. 00:00:06.039 --> 00:00:13.389 Coaching is this wild and wonderful industry that is unregulated. 00:00:14.009 --> 00:00:15.999 You don't have to have a particular degree. 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:18.709 You don't have to have a certification. 00:00:19.610 --> 00:00:23.340 You don't have a governing body that's watching you. 00:00:23.889 --> 00:00:29.089 You don't have An accountability system or a reporting mechanism that would call 00:00:29.119 --> 00:00:35.340 a coach to account when they misbehave Other than the public square like reddit 00:00:35.410 --> 00:00:39.669 like twitter like instagram social media Where people can quote unquote 00:00:39.699 --> 00:00:45.879 call out coaches who they think are behaving badly which Is a conversation 00:00:45.879 --> 00:00:49.179 for another day whether I think that's a good You Accountability mechanism. 00:00:49.209 --> 00:00:54.519 I think there are pros and cons, but overall in coaching, you don't have 00:00:54.629 --> 00:01:00.809 any governing body whose job it is to make sure that we all play nice and 00:01:00.809 --> 00:01:03.940 that we treat our clients ethically. 00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:11.210 Now ethics of course is a broad and deep topic and I am far from qualified. 00:01:11.755 --> 00:01:13.755 to speak about ethics in general. 00:01:14.625 --> 00:01:18.945 What I can't speak to is, what is my approach to coaching that allows 00:01:18.955 --> 00:01:23.765 me to feel ethical, to feel like I'm behaving appropriately with my clients 00:01:24.645 --> 00:01:27.065 and giving great service to my clients? 00:01:27.794 --> 00:01:31.944 Because in the absence of a governing body, in the absence of any sort of annual 00:01:32.005 --> 00:01:36.495 recertification or continuing education that might be required in other fields, 00:01:37.055 --> 00:01:43.914 As a coach, it's entirely up to me to use my own internal compass and my client's 00:01:43.964 --> 00:01:48.984 feedback, both their direct feedback in the form of how they talk about our work 00:01:48.984 --> 00:01:53.564 together and their indirect feedback in the form of whether or not they renew 00:01:53.764 --> 00:01:57.574 their coaching with me, whether or not they refer others to me and whether 00:01:57.574 --> 00:02:00.614 they just seem to be happy with how things are going in our relationship. 00:02:00.815 --> 00:02:05.155 Those are the only things I have to, to gauge, not just whether I'm effective, 00:02:05.195 --> 00:02:11.075 but whether I'm doing this in a way that's appropriate, healthy, and ethical. 00:02:13.655 --> 00:02:17.305 So I know that I have a way of being, but I've never codified it for myself. 00:02:17.755 --> 00:02:20.575 I've never stood up at my whiteboard, which is just over 00:02:20.575 --> 00:02:21.875 here to my right, of course. 00:02:22.365 --> 00:02:27.365 And I've never asked myself, what do I think are my foundational 00:02:27.375 --> 00:02:29.295 behaviors, my foundational ideas. 00:02:29.295 --> 00:02:31.955 That helped me feel like an ethical coach. 00:02:32.755 --> 00:02:34.305 So let's talk about this for a few minutes today. 00:02:34.335 --> 00:02:38.215 I've got maybe six or seven bullet points here. 00:02:38.265 --> 00:02:40.085 Spend a couple of minutes on each. 00:02:40.735 --> 00:02:45.795 And I don't imagine this is an exhaustive or a perfectly articulated list. 00:02:45.845 --> 00:02:49.105 All I hope to do with this episode is to get you thinking about what would 00:02:49.115 --> 00:02:53.695 be your code of ethics, because both the challenge and the beauty of our 00:02:53.695 --> 00:02:55.705 industry is that it is unregulated. 00:02:57.095 --> 00:03:00.875 And so it will always be up to us to determine how we want to 00:03:00.885 --> 00:03:05.425 be , and whether or not that's in highest service of the client. 00:03:06.055 --> 00:03:08.645 So I have all of this under two main headings. 00:03:09.345 --> 00:03:13.455 The first heading is prioritize the client's agency. 00:03:13.455 --> 00:03:16.655 I believe the foundation of an ethical interaction with a client 00:03:16.985 --> 00:03:21.765 is a recognition that they are sovereign in the relationship. 00:03:22.055 --> 00:03:25.175 That the reason they're coming to me is to guide them through self discovery 00:03:25.825 --> 00:03:32.315 through self direction, probably some self acceptance along the way, but 00:03:32.315 --> 00:03:36.855 that they are not coming to me to tell them what to think, how to think, 00:03:36.865 --> 00:03:40.575 what to do, what to say, or how to be. 00:03:41.555 --> 00:03:47.875 There's an inevitability to the exposure of my biases, my opinions, my personal 00:03:47.875 --> 00:03:52.585 philosophy, but I have the assumption that if they're in a coaching relationship 00:03:52.585 --> 00:03:55.895 with me in the first place, they have some sense of my personal philosophy 00:03:56.195 --> 00:03:59.595 and there must be just enough overlap between what they understand theirs to 00:03:59.595 --> 00:04:01.405 be and what they understand mine to be. 00:04:01.405 --> 00:04:01.420 Okay. 00:04:02.020 --> 00:04:05.170 that they feel safe starting the relationship in the first place. 00:04:06.390 --> 00:04:10.660 But even where we acknowledge and are excited about the overlap in our 00:04:10.660 --> 00:04:15.430 personal philosophies, I want them to remember that in our coaching 00:04:15.430 --> 00:04:17.790 interaction, they are sovereign. 00:04:19.030 --> 00:04:25.700 Their insight, their wisdom, their agency are the priority in our interaction. 00:04:27.745 --> 00:04:30.895 When I say the client, I'm including the client's personal philosophy. 00:04:30.935 --> 00:04:33.535 I'm including their belief or lack of belief in a higher power. 00:04:33.925 --> 00:04:37.815 If I have a client who is an atheist, then that will be the 00:04:37.815 --> 00:04:41.765 frame through which we look at their thoughts and feelings and actions. 00:04:42.105 --> 00:04:45.515 If I have a client who's a Christian, I'm very comfortable with that. 00:04:45.525 --> 00:04:46.935 That's my culture. 00:04:46.935 --> 00:04:48.095 That's my philosophy. 00:04:48.095 --> 00:04:52.015 So we can bring that kind of language and that kind of ethic into the interaction. 00:04:52.835 --> 00:04:56.115 But for me, the foundation of an ethical coaching exchange. 00:04:56.730 --> 00:05:01.040 Is that I have an understanding of what the client's guiding philosophy is, and 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:05.870 I have confidence that they are able and willing to self discover, self accept 00:05:05.890 --> 00:05:08.800 and self direct within their philosophy. 00:05:09.410 --> 00:05:14.240 Now, if they ask me for my opinion on their philosophy, depending on the level 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:16.280 of rapport we have, I will share it. 00:05:17.690 --> 00:05:18.780 I'll share my opinion. 00:05:19.300 --> 00:05:25.460 That's kind of in the next heading, but the foundation for all ethical interaction 00:05:25.460 --> 00:05:31.065 with clients As a recognition that it's the client's wisdom that matters. 00:05:32.675 --> 00:05:36.445 Now, if we were therapists, if we were psychiatrists or psychologists, and 00:05:36.445 --> 00:05:41.045 if we were dealing with particular pathologies, I would imagine that 00:05:41.045 --> 00:05:42.545 would still be part of our ethic. 00:05:42.935 --> 00:05:47.365 But we might have to acknowledge that a person's conditions, a 00:05:47.365 --> 00:05:51.505 person's diagnoses might impact their ability to trust themselves. 00:05:52.095 --> 00:05:54.945 And frankly, I'm not qualified to comment on that scenario. 00:05:55.255 --> 00:05:58.615 If somebody comes to me and they seem to be in that situation, I will 00:05:58.615 --> 00:06:02.445 quickly and happily make a referral to a qualified medical professional. 00:06:04.285 --> 00:06:07.485 But in coaching, that doesn't tend to be where we are hanging out. 00:06:08.035 --> 00:06:13.545 We tend to be working on difficulties in life, but not necessarily pathologies. 00:06:14.525 --> 00:06:21.115 And when that's the case, it's good and it's valid and it's ethical to trust that 00:06:21.115 --> 00:06:26.715 the client knows who they are who they want to be and is looking for our guidance 00:06:26.885 --> 00:06:29.445 and making progress in that direction. 00:06:30.455 --> 00:06:34.525 But that guidance is built on confidence that they have their own answers. 00:06:34.725 --> 00:06:36.985 And our job is to help them uncover those answers. 00:06:37.735 --> 00:06:40.635 So that's my first big heading about an ethical approach to coaching. 00:06:41.595 --> 00:06:47.235 It's that above all, we prioritize the client's agency and capacity 00:06:47.235 --> 00:06:49.725 and wisdom above all else. 00:06:50.615 --> 00:06:55.125 My second heading and my only other heading, when it comes to what I think 00:06:55.125 --> 00:06:56.615 is my ethical approach to coaching. 00:06:57.215 --> 00:06:59.935 is be trustworthy. 00:07:00.985 --> 00:07:04.685 I don't know how many times I've mentioned this now, but I know 00:07:04.685 --> 00:07:06.035 I will mention it many more. 00:07:06.835 --> 00:07:12.435 I have heard in multiple places now research cited that says that the 00:07:12.435 --> 00:07:17.085 particular modality that therapists use, this isn't coaches because we 00:07:17.085 --> 00:07:18.415 don't have good research on coaching. 00:07:18.415 --> 00:07:22.585 As far as I know, Um, but the particular modality that therapists 00:07:22.595 --> 00:07:26.355 use, whether it's cognitive behavioral therapy, dialectical behavioral 00:07:26.355 --> 00:07:30.685 therapy, psychoanalysis, you name it. 00:07:31.435 --> 00:07:35.355 The research says that all of these modalities can be effective. 00:07:36.745 --> 00:07:41.145 And the thing that defines their effectiveness above all else is the 00:07:41.145 --> 00:07:43.555 trust between practitioner and client. 00:07:45.975 --> 00:07:50.385 The reason I cite this so often is that it was such a huge relief and epiphany to me. 00:07:52.010 --> 00:07:57.310 that I didn't have to be expert necessarily in any particular 00:07:57.310 --> 00:07:59.100 field or any particular modality. 00:08:00.730 --> 00:08:06.110 What I had to do was become and stay trustworthy for the people who are looking 00:08:06.110 --> 00:08:10.110 to me for support and for guidance as they self discover and self direct. 00:08:11.475 --> 00:08:15.675 This should be a huge relief to all coaches who think that they don't know 00:08:15.675 --> 00:08:21.035 enough yet, who think that they have to get another certification, who think 00:08:21.045 --> 00:08:25.805 that they have to read a thousand more books, consume a thousand more podcasts. 00:08:26.195 --> 00:08:28.975 I love books and I love podcasts and I will continue to consume them. 00:08:29.625 --> 00:08:33.645 And I imagine I'll do lots of trainings in my next several decades as a coach 00:08:33.915 --> 00:08:39.050 where I try to increase my knowledge and my skill But it's a relief for me to know 00:08:39.110 --> 00:08:42.860 from the relative beginning of my work as a coach, because I'm about 10 years 00:08:42.860 --> 00:08:49.670 in, it's a relief to me to know that above all else, if there is trust and 00:08:49.670 --> 00:08:53.750 rapport between me and my client, then I'm already giving them the best thing that 00:08:53.770 --> 00:09:00.690 I can give them, which is the interaction that happens in a space where two people 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:02.490 trust and feel safe with each other. 00:09:03.430 --> 00:09:07.100 So I want to be trustworthy , for me, being trustworthy 00:09:07.110 --> 00:09:08.590 starts with holding space. 00:09:09.650 --> 00:09:12.450 Now you could say holding space as an extension of prioritizing 00:09:12.450 --> 00:09:13.740 the client's agency and wisdom. 00:09:13.740 --> 00:09:19.080 And it is, but I'm defining holding space as maintaining an 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:22.170 optimistic, compassionate neutrality. 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:25.240 So it's not pure neutrality. 00:09:25.300 --> 00:09:26.920 It's not indifference. 00:09:27.500 --> 00:09:29.330 I'm not indifferent toward my clients. 00:09:30.180 --> 00:09:32.690 And I don't think I could pretend to be, I think that. 00:09:33.180 --> 00:09:37.570 My lack of neutrality is obvious in my facial expressions, in my tone 00:09:37.570 --> 00:09:41.270 of voice, in the questions that I ask, in the answers that I give. 00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:44.170 I don't believe there's such a thing as perfect neutrality. 00:09:44.380 --> 00:09:47.540 And if there were perfect neutrality, I don't think it would serve the client. 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:51.370 But I believe there is an optimistic, compassionate neutrality 00:09:51.770 --> 00:09:55.470 that looks and sounds and feels a certain way to the client. 00:09:56.815 --> 00:10:00.475 So that they know they're not being judged or criticized. 00:10:01.895 --> 00:10:06.785 They know they're not being evaluated and they know they're 00:10:06.785 --> 00:10:08.855 interacting with someone who cares. 00:10:09.875 --> 00:10:12.915 That's how I describe this optimistic, compassionate neutrality. 00:10:14.025 --> 00:10:15.885 And I think it's the basis of being trustworthy. 00:10:16.845 --> 00:10:22.055 Really the rest of these bullet points are just my way of being inside that 00:10:22.075 --> 00:10:23.635 optimistic, compassionate space. 00:10:24.730 --> 00:10:28.030 Or at least how I hope to be inside that optimistic, compassionate space. 00:10:29.370 --> 00:10:31.270 I want to listen more than I talk. 00:10:31.270 --> 00:10:33.530 I think that's part of being trustworthy. 00:10:34.550 --> 00:10:38.260 Maybe it sounds weird that I would call that a part of trustworthiness, but 00:10:38.260 --> 00:10:42.670 if you think of a person in your life who consistently talks more than they 00:10:42.670 --> 00:10:48.710 listen, consider the impact that it has on the trust that you feel toward them. 00:10:48.980 --> 00:10:50.030 There is an impact. 00:10:51.220 --> 00:10:55.140 But if there's a person in your life who consistently listens more than they 00:10:55.140 --> 00:10:59.090 talk and they bring that optimistic compassion to the way they listen to 00:10:59.090 --> 00:11:03.010 you, I'm making the assumption that that's a high trust relationship. 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:05.060 So that's how I want to be. 00:11:05.570 --> 00:11:07.500 So I want to listen more than I talk. 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:12.770 And because I'm me and I'm the way I am, I also apologize when I monologue, you 00:11:12.770 --> 00:11:16.060 know, that old movie, the Incredibles 20 years ago, or I don't know how long ago. 00:11:16.835 --> 00:11:18.745 There's this part where the villain says to the hero, ah, 00:11:18.745 --> 00:11:20.075 you caught me monologuing. 00:11:21.485 --> 00:11:24.045 Yeah, my clients catch me monologuing sometimes. 00:11:25.505 --> 00:11:30.395 And when I do, hopefully I remember to apologize for the monologue. 00:11:30.665 --> 00:11:34.745 Now hopefully also the monologue is of some service to the client, but if 00:11:34.845 --> 00:11:38.505 my clients wanted long interrupted. 00:11:39.160 --> 00:11:43.360 Speeches, they could just listen to this podcast or a million other podcasts. 00:11:44.110 --> 00:11:47.630 So I have to remember, listen more than I talk. 00:11:47.640 --> 00:11:48.790 It's part of trustworthiness. 00:11:49.570 --> 00:11:55.850 I also want to share my instincts and my opinions and even advice 00:11:56.910 --> 00:11:59.760 In our coach trainings and in our conversations about coaching. 00:12:00.850 --> 00:12:05.700 Sometimes I think that we express a sort of allergy to advice giving in 00:12:05.700 --> 00:12:08.550 coaching and I'm mostly for that. 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:13.950 That's in service of listening more than I talk and holding 00:12:14.160 --> 00:12:16.950 optimistic, compassionate space 00:12:18.070 --> 00:12:20.960 I think my clients are happy to have me share my instincts, 00:12:20.990 --> 00:12:22.680 my opinions, and my advice. 00:12:23.550 --> 00:12:25.500 When they are labeled correctly. 00:12:26.310 --> 00:12:31.050 In other words, even though sometimes I think it's a little bit tedious the way 00:12:31.050 --> 00:12:36.970 I talk to my clients You will hear me say over and over again in my opinion 00:12:38.570 --> 00:12:43.450 or I have this opinion Or something that's coming to mind that might be 00:12:43.450 --> 00:12:45.140 wrong, but I want to share it with you. 00:12:45.850 --> 00:12:51.535 I'm constantly hedging When I give my opinion You because I think that's 00:12:51.535 --> 00:12:53.335 appropriate to trustworthiness. 00:12:54.465 --> 00:12:58.285 Now, if we were writing a persuasive document for writing sales copy, or 00:12:58.285 --> 00:13:03.075 even a newsletter or a college essay, we're told not to hedge in this way. 00:13:03.595 --> 00:13:08.745 We're told to get rid of filler, like in my opinion, and I think, and 00:13:09.065 --> 00:13:13.905 I might be wrong, but I think, see, there we are, I think, I think that 00:13:13.905 --> 00:13:19.035 in a high trust relationship where we're trying to constantly prove 00:13:19.215 --> 00:13:24.415 how we are prioritizing the client's agency and wisdom, it's appropriate to 00:13:24.465 --> 00:13:31.425 label our opinions, our opinions, and to say phrases like, in my opinion. 00:13:31.775 --> 00:13:33.355 Now it can get overworked. 00:13:33.575 --> 00:13:35.195 Sometimes it's almost a joke. 00:13:35.735 --> 00:13:39.885 How coaches sort of tiptoe around their clients. 00:13:40.025 --> 00:13:44.385 And in group settings, it can be kind of funny sometimes when coaches 00:13:44.385 --> 00:13:47.625 are constantly sort of apologizing and trying to avoid stepping on each 00:13:47.625 --> 00:13:49.285 other's toes and on their clients toes. 00:13:49.645 --> 00:13:51.545 And we can overwork this principle. 00:13:51.565 --> 00:13:52.275 I acknowledge it. 00:13:53.365 --> 00:13:56.885 I just bring it in, hopefully in as smooth a way as possible with simple 00:13:56.885 --> 00:13:59.435 phrases like, well, here's an opinion. 00:14:00.395 --> 00:14:01.865 I want to run this by you. 00:14:02.420 --> 00:14:03.380 Tell me if it's wrong. 00:14:03.610 --> 00:14:05.810 Tell me to what degree it resonates. 00:14:06.880 --> 00:14:09.130 Or I'll even say, I'm probably wrong. 00:14:09.830 --> 00:14:10.820 Here's an opinion. 00:14:11.280 --> 00:14:12.990 Tell me why I'm wrong or right. 00:14:14.530 --> 00:14:18.540 And I'm doing that in service of trying to draw something more from the client 00:14:18.650 --> 00:14:22.890 from their wisdom from their insight their experience And it's always a great 00:14:22.890 --> 00:14:27.050 relief to me and it's very gratifying to me When a client will use a simple 00:14:27.050 --> 00:14:30.580 expression like that where I do share an insight or an opinion properly labeled 00:14:31.190 --> 00:14:36.780 And they jump off of it in a new direction that I wasn't expecting That is the 00:14:36.780 --> 00:14:40.830 thing that helps them have some sort of a breakthrough and make their own progress 00:14:41.910 --> 00:14:46.800 sharing appropriately labeled opinions and insights is a way of 00:14:46.800 --> 00:14:51.810 collaborating with our clients without putting ourselves above our clients. 00:14:53.090 --> 00:14:56.430 Because if all we do is share advice, if all we do is share opinions and 00:14:56.430 --> 00:15:01.100 insights, and if we present them as fact, now we've changed the relationship. 00:15:01.110 --> 00:15:04.520 Now, not only in my opinion, are we not being trustworthy, 00:15:05.660 --> 00:15:08.000 but we're not prioritizing the client's agency and wisdom. 00:15:09.510 --> 00:15:12.120 So there's a balance to be struck here, but I don't think 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:15.430 it's that hard of a balance, especially with practice and care. 00:15:16.520 --> 00:15:20.200 Along those same lines, when we're sharing opinions and insights, and 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:26.070 even advice, we want to make sure that our internal state is clean and clear. 00:15:27.175 --> 00:15:31.605 And we're avoiding judgmental and critical words and judgmental critical 00:15:31.665 --> 00:15:36.285 thoughts, because I don't know about you, but when I'm feeling judgmental, 00:15:36.285 --> 00:15:39.715 critical and negative toward an idea or toward a client, I think it makes its 00:15:39.715 --> 00:15:42.135 way to my face and to my tone of voice. 00:15:44.015 --> 00:15:47.955 And I got to tell you, it feels horrible when it happens. 00:15:48.615 --> 00:15:49.575 I'm imperfect. 00:15:49.595 --> 00:15:52.515 Um, maybe I'm having a bad day. 00:15:52.835 --> 00:15:56.105 Maybe the topic that a client and I are talking about strikes a 00:15:56.105 --> 00:15:59.665 particular nerve in me, or maybe it connects with some sort of insecurity 00:15:59.665 --> 00:16:02.155 in me or some past bad experience. 00:16:02.245 --> 00:16:04.425 And maybe I have a negative emotional reaction. 00:16:04.665 --> 00:16:08.735 And even though the client doesn't see any of that, maybe it makes 00:16:08.735 --> 00:16:14.415 its way out of me in the moment as something that's judgmental 00:16:14.535 --> 00:16:16.395 or harsh or can be construed as. 00:16:17.435 --> 00:16:20.075 Just not right for the tone of the relationship that we've 00:16:20.095 --> 00:16:21.465 tried to establish with a client. 00:16:22.195 --> 00:16:27.345 It doesn't happen often, but I can tell you that when it happens, 00:16:27.485 --> 00:16:31.155 it feels bad enough to me that the experiences stick to me. 00:16:32.215 --> 00:16:36.035 Hopefully they stick to me more than they stick to the client, but on the 00:16:36.035 --> 00:16:39.735 rare occasion where it has happened, I've tried to acknowledge it as 00:16:39.735 --> 00:16:45.655 quickly as possible and then come back with an apology, a sincere apology. 00:16:46.405 --> 00:16:50.135 Even if the apology wasn't requested, there have been experiences 00:16:50.135 --> 00:16:51.815 where I've left a coaching call. 00:16:52.165 --> 00:16:56.885 Maybe a day has gone by, maybe two, three, five days have gone by, but that moment in 00:16:56.885 --> 00:17:03.495 the session keeps coming back into my mind and it's just not making its way through. 00:17:04.455 --> 00:17:05.205 It's stuck. 00:17:06.845 --> 00:17:11.365 And in that situation, I find myself asking, okay, well, I feel bad 00:17:11.365 --> 00:17:13.135 about it, but did they even notice? 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:15.650 Did they even care? 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.200 If I come back to that and apologize for it, am I going to hurt my 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:20.410 credibility with the client? 00:17:20.410 --> 00:17:22.700 Am I making an issue where there wasn't one? 00:17:23.510 --> 00:17:26.260 Am I putting my client in the uncomfortable position where they then 00:17:26.270 --> 00:17:29.500 have to comfort me about the thing that caused me to feel discomfort? 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:31.980 I don't want to do that to them. 00:17:33.990 --> 00:17:37.240 And I'll ride a little bit of a merry go round in my head about that 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:42.550 moment from the coaching session, but here's what has rung true to me. 00:17:43.850 --> 00:17:50.050 If my goal is to be trustworthy and if my goal is to model healthy collaboration and 00:17:50.050 --> 00:17:54.130 healthy connection in a relationship, even a professional arms length relationship, 00:17:54.130 --> 00:18:00.570 like a coaching relationship, I need to model and exemplify the ethic 00:18:01.940 --> 00:18:03.190 that will benefit the client. 00:18:04.600 --> 00:18:07.280 So I come back to the next session and I say, Hey, by the way. 00:18:08.995 --> 00:18:12.735 Last week when we talked, there was this moment where you sort of 00:18:12.735 --> 00:18:16.275 said this and then I sort of said that, do you remember that moment? 00:18:16.735 --> 00:18:21.355 And the answer often is no, no, I don't really even remember 00:18:21.355 --> 00:18:22.185 what you're talking about. 00:18:22.885 --> 00:18:27.415 And then I have to push through and instead of saying, okay, great, nevermind. 00:18:28.365 --> 00:18:31.635 Then I have to say, well, I just got to tell you, I didn't like 00:18:31.635 --> 00:18:33.355 how I approached that with you. 00:18:33.845 --> 00:18:35.065 It didn't feel right. 00:18:35.095 --> 00:18:37.335 It came back into my mind a few times over the course of the 00:18:37.335 --> 00:18:39.625 week and I want to apologize. 00:18:40.625 --> 00:18:44.875 And in every case, again, this has happened very few times and I only say 00:18:44.875 --> 00:18:47.505 it's happened very few times because I'm not trying to trigger those of 00:18:47.505 --> 00:18:49.315 you who are particularly sensitive. 00:18:50.235 --> 00:18:54.145 And, or self doubting that you don't now need to go to every one of your 00:18:54.145 --> 00:18:58.065 coaching sessions with a laundry list of, of incidents and apologies. 00:18:58.985 --> 00:19:01.865 This happens very rarely in my practice, 00:19:02.875 --> 00:19:08.325 but when it does happen and I apologize in every case, the client 00:19:08.335 --> 00:19:12.005 has either said, I don't actually know what you're talking about. 00:19:12.715 --> 00:19:14.295 I don't remember that moment, but. 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:15.420 Thank you. 00:19:16.340 --> 00:19:20.540 Or the client has said that didn't feel quite right to me either. 00:19:20.550 --> 00:19:22.280 So I appreciate you bringing it back up. 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.250 And my belief and my confidence is that those relationships are stronger 00:19:29.250 --> 00:19:33.740 for having gone through that break and that repair, even a micro break 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:38.210 and a micro repair, the relationship and the rapport are now stronger 00:19:38.600 --> 00:19:40.090 than if it had never happened at all. 00:19:41.205 --> 00:19:44.805 Now am I proposing that we go be a go be offensive or insensitive so we can 00:19:44.805 --> 00:19:49.375 then be in this break and repair cycle No I'm saying because of our nature as 00:19:49.425 --> 00:19:53.685 imperfect human beings the opportunities will present themselves And when they do 00:19:53.695 --> 00:19:55.595 we need to act according to our ethics. 00:19:56.365 --> 00:20:01.705 We need to be courageous and we need to say I felt wrong about how I handled 00:20:01.705 --> 00:20:05.225 that and i'm sorry And then we need to trust that our client will receive it. 00:20:05.225 --> 00:20:10.580 Well, and frankly if they don't receive it Well, i'm not mad at them But it 00:20:10.590 --> 00:20:14.870 might indicate that a relationship that we might have thought was going 00:20:14.870 --> 00:20:18.290 to proceed for the long term, maybe it doesn't, nothing wrong with that, 00:20:19.390 --> 00:20:23.400 but I'm looking to avoid judgmental and critical words and thoughts. 00:20:24.120 --> 00:20:28.690 I want to avoid bringing any kind of negativity into the coaching interaction. 00:20:30.610 --> 00:20:35.220 And when I do, I want to own it and apologize for it sincerely. 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:37.300 This does not mean. 00:20:38.015 --> 00:20:39.505 Hiding from our clients. 00:20:39.545 --> 00:20:43.555 It does not mean trying to people please our clients either, because there will 00:20:43.555 --> 00:20:48.625 be moments where we feel inspired to say a particular thing that we know 00:20:48.625 --> 00:20:50.745 the client will not be happy to hear. 00:20:51.585 --> 00:20:53.865 We will still wrap it in the appropriate language. 00:20:54.615 --> 00:20:55.895 Hey, there's a thought I'm having. 00:20:55.895 --> 00:20:56.685 I want to share with you. 00:20:56.935 --> 00:20:59.515 I don't know that this is going to be pleasant to hear. 00:21:00.395 --> 00:21:02.085 I want to see how it lands with you. 00:21:02.085 --> 00:21:03.175 And then I want to talk about. 00:21:03.760 --> 00:21:06.800 The implications of this thing I'm about to say, we're not 00:21:06.830 --> 00:21:08.540 hiding from those tough moments. 00:21:09.550 --> 00:21:13.370 We're trying to make sure that those tough moments stay clean and when they don't 00:21:13.770 --> 00:21:17.670 and when the mess is our fault, we own it, we apologize for it and we trust the 00:21:17.670 --> 00:21:19.480 relationship will be stronger as a result. 00:21:20.520 --> 00:21:21.140 Next item. 00:21:22.730 --> 00:21:26.700 Be patient and curious about quote unquote progress. 00:21:27.450 --> 00:21:29.170 Now I say quote unquote progress. 00:21:30.345 --> 00:21:32.935 Because it's the nature of the kind of coaching that I'm talking 00:21:32.935 --> 00:21:37.065 about that we will have ideas about what progress looks like. 00:21:37.165 --> 00:21:42.085 Our clients may even have come to us with a definition of progress in the 00:21:42.085 --> 00:21:46.055 form of, I want to stop doing this, I want to start doing that, I want to have 00:21:46.055 --> 00:21:48.955 this thing I don't have yet, I want to get rid of this thing I already have. 00:21:49.315 --> 00:21:52.965 They may have their own preconceived notions about what progress looks like. 00:21:53.735 --> 00:21:57.215 And we're trying to collaborate through the self discovery, self acceptance, 00:21:57.215 --> 00:22:01.505 and self direction processes that carry them to that definition of progress. 00:22:02.545 --> 00:22:05.955 But in order to be trustworthy, we have to stay patient and stay 00:22:05.955 --> 00:22:13.255 curious so that we can stay in optimistic, compassionate neutrality. 00:22:14.405 --> 00:22:19.815 Because the moment that we shift and we say, you're not going as fast as 00:22:19.825 --> 00:22:24.460 you should, we're Um, which actually just means you're not going as fast 00:22:24.490 --> 00:22:30.540 as I think you should, which actually means I will feel better about my 00:22:30.540 --> 00:22:35.430 coaching if I can see more concrete evidence of its effectiveness. 00:22:36.820 --> 00:22:40.550 As soon as we get there, we've lost our trustworthiness. 00:22:40.670 --> 00:22:41.880 We've broken our ethic, 00:22:42.840 --> 00:22:45.670 so we've got to stay patient and we've got to stay curious. 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:47.970 It doesn't mean that we stay silent. 00:22:48.730 --> 00:22:51.000 I'm not silent about my clients. 00:22:51.805 --> 00:22:54.865 Progress or lack of progress both perceived. 00:22:54.915 --> 00:22:56.845 Of course, just the other day. 00:22:56.845 --> 00:22:59.755 I said to a client a client I love and respect. 00:23:00.825 --> 00:23:06.845 I said, Hey, we're not so very far from the end of this coaching engagement. 00:23:06.865 --> 00:23:09.695 And I want to check in with you on one point. 00:23:11.235 --> 00:23:15.855 And I brought up the point and I said, how would you like to approach this point? 00:23:15.945 --> 00:23:21.235 Would you like to be pushed Would you like me to redirect us back to this 00:23:21.245 --> 00:23:23.605 point if we go off on other topics? 00:23:25.665 --> 00:23:28.125 How are you feeling about this thing? 00:23:28.975 --> 00:23:33.615 And to what degree do you want me to bring it back to your awareness in our sessions? 00:23:34.035 --> 00:23:37.275 And how strongly do you want me to bring it back to your awareness in our sessions? 00:23:38.340 --> 00:23:42.440 And then the client and I had a very productive interaction about that thing. 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:46.870 And the rest of our coaching engagement, which hopefully won't 00:23:46.870 --> 00:23:51.250 be our last, but the rest of our coaching engagement will be better. 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:57.150 Not because I was impatient or pushing, but because I remembered 00:23:57.250 --> 00:24:02.090 I was holding space around that point around that idea, that goal. 00:24:02.430 --> 00:24:05.040 And I was willing to bring it back into my client's awareness. 00:24:06.425 --> 00:24:08.785 And say, how hard should we push on this? 00:24:09.545 --> 00:24:15.375 But that's supported by my patience and my curiosity and my total lack of agenda. 00:24:16.485 --> 00:24:18.755 Last point here that relates to trustworthiness. 00:24:19.925 --> 00:24:24.725 If I want to be an ethical coach, I have to stay mindful of my financial 00:24:24.765 --> 00:24:29.905 incentives and how those financial incentives can impact the thoughts, 00:24:29.915 --> 00:24:32.765 the feelings, and the actions that I bring to my client sessions. 00:24:34.050 --> 00:24:37.220 If I have a client who is approaching the end of a coaching engagement 00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:43.740 and I start to feel some fear around, what if they don't renew? 00:24:45.450 --> 00:24:49.770 What if the client relationship ends and I don't have someone else lined up? 00:24:50.600 --> 00:24:51.670 Oh, I need that money. 00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:53.310 There's the key word by the way, need. 00:24:53.890 --> 00:24:54.820 I need that money 00:24:55.990 --> 00:24:57.290 from that moment. 00:24:58.620 --> 00:25:04.320 There's a very real possibility, even a probability that my sense 00:25:04.320 --> 00:25:09.660 of financial need will impact my interactions with that client in a 00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:14.740 way that I would not feel good about if I didn't feel that financial need. 00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:18.630 One of the best quotes I've come across in the last couple of years 00:25:18.970 --> 00:25:22.420 is incentives are undefeated. 00:25:24.190 --> 00:25:25.460 And what that means is. 00:25:26.675 --> 00:25:31.805 When there is a set of incentives in your life, your behavior will 00:25:31.805 --> 00:25:37.115 be shaped by those incentives, some conscious and some unconscious. 00:25:38.295 --> 00:25:43.365 So if you want to stay ethical, if you want to keep your relationships 00:25:43.415 --> 00:25:47.905 healthy with your clients, if you want to be trustworthy, you have 00:25:47.905 --> 00:25:54.165 to hunt down the incentives and align them with your client's goals. 00:25:55.190 --> 00:25:59.410 The shorter way to say that is I never want to need a client. 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:06.600 I need to order my life and my business in such a way that need doesn't feel 00:26:06.600 --> 00:26:11.350 like part of the equation, but want always feels like part of the equation. 00:26:12.230 --> 00:26:15.330 I want to approach my client interactions and my perspective 00:26:15.340 --> 00:26:16.880 client interactions from. 00:26:17.075 --> 00:26:23.225 Um, a feeling of desire as in I want to help, I'm able to help, I'm excited 00:26:23.225 --> 00:26:29.335 to help instead of from a place of need, which is I got to get a client 00:26:31.205 --> 00:26:32.705 really could use the money right now. 00:26:33.085 --> 00:26:35.925 Ironically in the coaching world, it's very often true that the coach 00:26:35.925 --> 00:26:37.555 doesn't need the money per se. 00:26:37.555 --> 00:26:41.085 In other words, the coach doesn't rely on that money to 00:26:41.085 --> 00:26:43.135 buy groceries or to pay rent. 00:26:44.975 --> 00:26:48.105 But the coach is relying on that money for external validation 00:26:48.205 --> 00:26:50.105 so the coach feels successful 00:26:51.055 --> 00:26:56.415 And that need is going to impact your interactions with your clients in some 00:26:56.765 --> 00:27:01.655 small ways and Unfortunately in some big ways, but you may not recognize 00:27:01.665 --> 00:27:07.665 those impacts in the moment Because the incentives are invisible to you And the 00:27:07.665 --> 00:27:10.395 way they're touching your your thoughts your feelings and your behaviors toward 00:27:10.395 --> 00:27:12.635 your clients are largely invisible to you 00:27:13.900 --> 00:27:20.500 The job is to arrange my finances in such a way that wherever I am in a client 00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:24.930 interaction, whether I'm about to have an initial conversation, or I'm approaching 00:27:24.930 --> 00:27:27.690 the last session in a coaching engagement. 00:27:29.855 --> 00:27:34.335 I want to make sure that I'm clean in my head and my heart in both scenarios 00:27:34.765 --> 00:27:39.445 and I can meet the client where they are and I want them to be able to feel 00:27:40.045 --> 00:27:46.215 that for me there's only optimistic compassion and there is no need. 00:27:47.375 --> 00:27:51.975 There's no sense that I need them, that I'll be worse off if they 00:27:51.975 --> 00:27:53.605 don't sign up for coaching with me. 00:27:54.965 --> 00:27:57.165 To make this really stark, let me say this. 00:27:58.195 --> 00:28:04.065 If I'm looking for mental anchors to keep me solid as I'm approaching 00:28:04.755 --> 00:28:09.005 initial conversations with clients or concluding conversations with clients, 00:28:09.405 --> 00:28:15.075 where in both cases a transaction is imminent, I would rather have as a mental 00:28:15.075 --> 00:28:20.575 anchor, if this client doesn't start or continue with me, it's no problem. 00:28:20.775 --> 00:28:23.645 I would rather put my groceries on a credit card. 00:28:24.910 --> 00:28:29.190 Then bring an attitude of need to this interaction. 00:28:30.850 --> 00:28:34.480 In other words, I would rather my alternative be debt than to 00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:37.440 bring an attitude of need to an interaction with a client. 00:28:37.690 --> 00:28:41.530 Now I don't want debt to be clear and I don't want anyone else to have debt. 00:28:41.830 --> 00:28:51.070 I'm framing that in an extreme way because I would rather have debt than poison a 00:28:51.070 --> 00:28:54.020 client relationship with financial need. 00:28:55.020 --> 00:29:00.380 Some of the wisest advice out there is if as a coach, you're in a position of 00:29:00.380 --> 00:29:05.050 financial need, meaning you don't have a great way to pay rent or buy groceries 00:29:05.070 --> 00:29:09.000 or keep yourself healthy, then get a job. 00:29:10.120 --> 00:29:13.640 Let the wage pay your rent, buy your groceries. 00:29:14.360 --> 00:29:18.590 Pay for your medical needs so you can stay healthy and present. 00:29:19.670 --> 00:29:24.070 And then as you approach client interactions, you're able to do 00:29:24.070 --> 00:29:29.540 it purely from a place of desire, optimistic, compassionate, neutrality, 00:29:30.470 --> 00:29:32.750 and by extension, trustworthiness. 00:29:33.600 --> 00:29:36.650 I think financial incentives deserve their own episode. 00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:38.300 We'll probably come back to that. 00:29:38.320 --> 00:29:41.900 It shows up a lot in trainings that coaches sell to each 00:29:41.900 --> 00:29:43.560 other and in certifications. 00:29:44.070 --> 00:29:49.400 That coach has offered to each other, but for now, my suggestion to myself 00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:53.360 and to all of us is we want to be very aware of the financial incentives that 00:29:53.360 --> 00:29:55.120 exist in a coach client relationship. 00:29:55.860 --> 00:30:00.040 And we want to make sure that those incentives stay aligned 00:30:00.050 --> 00:30:01.590 with our desire to be ethical. 00:30:02.790 --> 00:30:03.700 So there you have it. 00:30:03.760 --> 00:30:04.600 A few notes. 00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:08.420 I think there's some good stuff in this episode, and I'm confident that 00:30:08.420 --> 00:30:13.100 as you think about this, you'll come up with even better stuff for yourself. 00:30:14.110 --> 00:30:21.710 I'm also completely confident that if the foundation of our work is the ethical 00:30:21.710 --> 00:30:27.700 approach that we've defined for ourselves, that it will be the thing above all else. 00:30:28.405 --> 00:30:32.225 That guarantees our longevity and our success in the practice. 00:30:33.445 --> 00:30:34.935 And that should come as a great relief. 00:30:35.905 --> 00:30:40.225 I believe coaching is a place where the good people won't finish last. 00:30:40.305 --> 00:30:43.595 It's where good people will finish first and they'll be able to stay 00:30:43.605 --> 00:30:47.735 in the game forever because they prioritize their ethics above all else. 00:30:48.475 --> 00:30:53.145 And that's inherently attractive food for thought. 00:30:53.835 --> 00:30:55.255 Thanks for spending some time with me today. 00:30:56.655 --> 00:30:57.525 Go to markbutler. 00:30:57.525 --> 00:31:03.055 com, sign up for the newsletter, short, insightful emails. 00:31:04.715 --> 00:31:07.045 And with that, I'll talk to you in the next episode.