Mark Butler: Hello, my name is Mark Butler and you are listening
to a podcast for coaches.
Coaching is this wild and wonderful industry that is unregulated.
You don't have to have a particular degree.
You don't have to have a certification.
You don't have a governing body that's watching you.
You don't have An accountability system or a reporting mechanism that would call
a coach to account when they misbehave Other than the public square like reddit
like twitter like instagram social media Where people can quote unquote
call out coaches who they think are behaving badly which Is a conversation
for another day whether I think that's a good You Accountability mechanism.
I think there are pros and cons, but overall in coaching, you don't have
any governing body whose job it is to make sure that we all play nice and
that we treat our clients ethically.
Now ethics of course is a broad and deep topic and I am far from qualified.
to speak about ethics in general.
What I can't speak to is, what is my approach to coaching that allows
me to feel ethical, to feel like I'm behaving appropriately with my clients
and giving great service to my clients?
Because in the absence of a governing body, in the absence of any sort of annual
recertification or continuing education that might be required in other fields,
As a coach, it's entirely up to me to use my own internal compass and my client's
feedback, both their direct feedback in the form of how they talk about our work
together and their indirect feedback in the form of whether or not they renew
their coaching with me, whether or not they refer others to me and whether
they just seem to be happy with how things are going in our relationship.
Those are the only things I have to, to gauge, not just whether I'm effective,
but whether I'm doing this in a way that's appropriate, healthy, and ethical.
So I know that I have a way of being, but I've never codified it for myself.
I've never stood up at my whiteboard, which is just over
here to my right, of course.
And I've never asked myself, what do I think are my foundational
behaviors, my foundational ideas.
That helped me feel like an ethical coach.
So let's talk about this for a few minutes today.
I've got maybe six or seven bullet points here.
Spend a couple of minutes on each.
And I don't imagine this is an exhaustive or a perfectly articulated list.
All I hope to do with this episode is to get you thinking about what would
be your code of ethics, because both the challenge and the beauty of our
industry is that it is unregulated.
And so it will always be up to us to determine how we want to
be , and whether or not that's in highest service of the client.
So I have all of this under two main headings.
The first heading is prioritize the client's agency.
I believe the foundation of an ethical interaction with a client
is a recognition that they are sovereign in the relationship.
That the reason they're coming to me is to guide them through self discovery
through self direction, probably some self acceptance along the way, but
that they are not coming to me to tell them what to think, how to think,
what to do, what to say, or how to be.
There's an inevitability to the exposure of my biases, my opinions, my personal
philosophy, but I have the assumption that if they're in a coaching relationship
with me in the first place, they have some sense of my personal philosophy
and there must be just enough overlap between what they understand theirs to
be and what they understand mine to be.
Okay.
that they feel safe starting the relationship in the first place.
But even where we acknowledge and are excited about the overlap in our
personal philosophies, I want them to remember that in our coaching
interaction, they are sovereign.
Their insight, their wisdom, their agency are the priority in our interaction.
When I say the client, I'm including the client's personal philosophy.
I'm including their belief or lack of belief in a higher power.
If I have a client who is an atheist, then that will be the
frame through which we look at their thoughts and feelings and actions.
If I have a client who's a Christian, I'm very comfortable with that.
That's my culture.
That's my philosophy.
So we can bring that kind of language and that kind of ethic into the interaction.
But for me, the foundation of an ethical coaching exchange.
Is that I have an understanding of what the client's guiding philosophy is, and
I have confidence that they are able and willing to self discover, self accept
and self direct within their philosophy.
Now, if they ask me for my opinion on their philosophy, depending on the level
of rapport we have, I will share it.
I'll share my opinion.
That's kind of in the next heading, but the foundation for all ethical interaction
with clients As a recognition that it's the client's wisdom that matters.
Now, if we were therapists, if we were psychiatrists or psychologists, and
if we were dealing with particular pathologies, I would imagine that
would still be part of our ethic.
But we might have to acknowledge that a person's conditions, a
person's diagnoses might impact their ability to trust themselves.
And frankly, I'm not qualified to comment on that scenario.
If somebody comes to me and they seem to be in that situation, I will
quickly and happily make a referral to a qualified medical professional.
But in coaching, that doesn't tend to be where we are hanging out.
We tend to be working on difficulties in life, but not necessarily pathologies.
And when that's the case, it's good and it's valid and it's ethical to trust that
the client knows who they are who they want to be and is looking for our guidance
and making progress in that direction.
But that guidance is built on confidence that they have their own answers.
And our job is to help them uncover those answers.
So that's my first big heading about an ethical approach to coaching.
It's that above all, we prioritize the client's agency and capacity
and wisdom above all else.
My second heading and my only other heading, when it comes to what I think
is my ethical approach to coaching.
is be trustworthy.
I don't know how many times I've mentioned this now, but I know
I will mention it many more.
I have heard in multiple places now research cited that says that the
particular modality that therapists use, this isn't coaches because we
don't have good research on coaching.
As far as I know, Um, but the particular modality that therapists
use, whether it's cognitive behavioral therapy, dialectical behavioral
therapy, psychoanalysis, you name it.
The research says that all of these modalities can be effective.
And the thing that defines their effectiveness above all else is the
trust between practitioner and client.
The reason I cite this so often is that it was such a huge relief and epiphany to me.
that I didn't have to be expert necessarily in any particular
field or any particular modality.
What I had to do was become and stay trustworthy for the people who are looking
to me for support and for guidance as they self discover and self direct.
This should be a huge relief to all coaches who think that they don't know
enough yet, who think that they have to get another certification, who think
that they have to read a thousand more books, consume a thousand more podcasts.
I love books and I love podcasts and I will continue to consume them.
And I imagine I'll do lots of trainings in my next several decades as a coach
where I try to increase my knowledge and my skill But it's a relief for me to know
from the relative beginning of my work as a coach, because I'm about 10 years
in, it's a relief to me to know that above all else, if there is trust and
rapport between me and my client, then I'm already giving them the best thing that
I can give them, which is the interaction that happens in a space where two people
trust and feel safe with each other.
So I want to be trustworthy , for me, being trustworthy
starts with holding space.
Now you could say holding space as an extension of prioritizing
the client's agency and wisdom.
And it is, but I'm defining holding space as maintaining an
optimistic, compassionate neutrality.
So it's not pure neutrality.
It's not indifference.
I'm not indifferent toward my clients.
And I don't think I could pretend to be, I think that.
My lack of neutrality is obvious in my facial expressions, in my tone
of voice, in the questions that I ask, in the answers that I give.
I don't believe there's such a thing as perfect neutrality.
And if there were perfect neutrality, I don't think it would serve the client.
But I believe there is an optimistic, compassionate neutrality
that looks and sounds and feels a certain way to the client.
So that they know they're not being judged or criticized.
They know they're not being evaluated and they know they're
interacting with someone who cares.
That's how I describe this optimistic, compassionate neutrality.
And I think it's the basis of being trustworthy.
Really the rest of these bullet points are just my way of being inside that
optimistic, compassionate space.
Or at least how I hope to be inside that optimistic, compassionate space.
I want to listen more than I talk.
I think that's part of being trustworthy.
Maybe it sounds weird that I would call that a part of trustworthiness, but
if you think of a person in your life who consistently talks more than they
listen, consider the impact that it has on the trust that you feel toward them.
There is an impact.
But if there's a person in your life who consistently listens more than they
talk and they bring that optimistic compassion to the way they listen to
you, I'm making the assumption that that's a high trust relationship.
So that's how I want to be.
So I want to listen more than I talk.
And because I'm me and I'm the way I am, I also apologize when I monologue, you
know, that old movie, the Incredibles 20 years ago, or I don't know how long ago.
There's this part where the villain says to the hero, ah,
you caught me monologuing.
Yeah, my clients catch me monologuing sometimes.
And when I do, hopefully I remember to apologize for the monologue.
Now hopefully also the monologue is of some service to the client, but if
my clients wanted long interrupted.
Speeches, they could just listen to this podcast or a million other podcasts.
So I have to remember, listen more than I talk.
It's part of trustworthiness.
I also want to share my instincts and my opinions and even advice
In our coach trainings and in our conversations about coaching.
Sometimes I think that we express a sort of allergy to advice giving in
coaching and I'm mostly for that.
That's in service of listening more than I talk and holding
optimistic, compassionate space
I think my clients are happy to have me share my instincts,
my opinions, and my advice.
When they are labeled correctly.
In other words, even though sometimes I think it's a little bit tedious the way
I talk to my clients You will hear me say over and over again in my opinion
or I have this opinion Or something that's coming to mind that might be
wrong, but I want to share it with you.
I'm constantly hedging When I give my opinion You because I think that's
appropriate to trustworthiness.
Now, if we were writing a persuasive document for writing sales copy, or
even a newsletter or a college essay, we're told not to hedge in this way.
We're told to get rid of filler, like in my opinion, and I think, and
I might be wrong, but I think, see, there we are, I think, I think that
in a high trust relationship where we're trying to constantly prove
how we are prioritizing the client's agency and wisdom, it's appropriate to
label our opinions, our opinions, and to say phrases like, in my opinion.
Now it can get overworked.
Sometimes it's almost a joke.
How coaches sort of tiptoe around their clients.
And in group settings, it can be kind of funny sometimes when coaches
are constantly sort of apologizing and trying to avoid stepping on each
other's toes and on their clients toes.
And we can overwork this principle.
I acknowledge it.
I just bring it in, hopefully in as smooth a way as possible with simple
phrases like, well, here's an opinion.
I want to run this by you.
Tell me if it's wrong.
Tell me to what degree it resonates.
Or I'll even say, I'm probably wrong.
Here's an opinion.
Tell me why I'm wrong or right.
And I'm doing that in service of trying to draw something more from the client
from their wisdom from their insight their experience And it's always a great
relief to me and it's very gratifying to me When a client will use a simple
expression like that where I do share an insight or an opinion properly labeled
And they jump off of it in a new direction that I wasn't expecting That is the
thing that helps them have some sort of a breakthrough and make their own progress
sharing appropriately labeled opinions and insights is a way of
collaborating with our clients without putting ourselves above our clients.
Because if all we do is share advice, if all we do is share opinions and
insights, and if we present them as fact, now we've changed the relationship.
Now, not only in my opinion, are we not being trustworthy,
but we're not prioritizing the client's agency and wisdom.
So there's a balance to be struck here, but I don't think
it's that hard of a balance, especially with practice and care.
Along those same lines, when we're sharing opinions and insights, and
even advice, we want to make sure that our internal state is clean and clear.
And we're avoiding judgmental and critical words and judgmental critical
thoughts, because I don't know about you, but when I'm feeling judgmental,
critical and negative toward an idea or toward a client, I think it makes its
way to my face and to my tone of voice.
And I got to tell you, it feels horrible when it happens.
I'm imperfect.
Um, maybe I'm having a bad day.
Maybe the topic that a client and I are talking about strikes a
particular nerve in me, or maybe it connects with some sort of insecurity
in me or some past bad experience.
And maybe I have a negative emotional reaction.
And even though the client doesn't see any of that, maybe it makes
its way out of me in the moment as something that's judgmental
or harsh or can be construed as.
Just not right for the tone of the relationship that we've
tried to establish with a client.
It doesn't happen often, but I can tell you that when it happens,
it feels bad enough to me that the experiences stick to me.
Hopefully they stick to me more than they stick to the client, but on the
rare occasion where it has happened, I've tried to acknowledge it as
quickly as possible and then come back with an apology, a sincere apology.
Even if the apology wasn't requested, there have been experiences
where I've left a coaching call.
Maybe a day has gone by, maybe two, three, five days have gone by, but that moment in
the session keeps coming back into my mind and it's just not making its way through.
It's stuck.
And in that situation, I find myself asking, okay, well, I feel bad
about it, but did they even notice?
Did they even care?
If I come back to that and apologize for it, am I going to hurt my
credibility with the client?
Am I making an issue where there wasn't one?
Am I putting my client in the uncomfortable position where they then
have to comfort me about the thing that caused me to feel discomfort?
I don't want to do that to them.
And I'll ride a little bit of a merry go round in my head about that
moment from the coaching session, but here's what has rung true to me.
If my goal is to be trustworthy and if my goal is to model healthy collaboration and
healthy connection in a relationship, even a professional arms length relationship,
like a coaching relationship, I need to model and exemplify the ethic
that will benefit the client.
So I come back to the next session and I say, Hey, by the way.
Last week when we talked, there was this moment where you sort of
said this and then I sort of said that, do you remember that moment?
And the answer often is no, no, I don't really even remember
what you're talking about.
And then I have to push through and instead of saying, okay, great, nevermind.
Then I have to say, well, I just got to tell you, I didn't like
how I approached that with you.
It didn't feel right.
It came back into my mind a few times over the course of the
week and I want to apologize.
And in every case, again, this has happened very few times and I only say
it's happened very few times because I'm not trying to trigger those of
you who are particularly sensitive.
And, or self doubting that you don't now need to go to every one of your
coaching sessions with a laundry list of, of incidents and apologies.
This happens very rarely in my practice,
but when it does happen and I apologize in every case, the client
has either said, I don't actually know what you're talking about.
I don't remember that moment, but.
Thank you.
Or the client has said that didn't feel quite right to me either.
So I appreciate you bringing it back up.
And my belief and my confidence is that those relationships are stronger
for having gone through that break and that repair, even a micro break
and a micro repair, the relationship and the rapport are now stronger
than if it had never happened at all.
Now am I proposing that we go be a go be offensive or insensitive so we can
then be in this break and repair cycle No I'm saying because of our nature as
imperfect human beings the opportunities will present themselves And when they do
we need to act according to our ethics.
We need to be courageous and we need to say I felt wrong about how I handled
that and i'm sorry And then we need to trust that our client will receive it.
Well, and frankly if they don't receive it Well, i'm not mad at them But it
might indicate that a relationship that we might have thought was going
to proceed for the long term, maybe it doesn't, nothing wrong with that,
but I'm looking to avoid judgmental and critical words and thoughts.
I want to avoid bringing any kind of negativity into the coaching interaction.
And when I do, I want to own it and apologize for it sincerely.
This does not mean.
Hiding from our clients.
It does not mean trying to people please our clients either, because there will
be moments where we feel inspired to say a particular thing that we know
the client will not be happy to hear.
We will still wrap it in the appropriate language.
Hey, there's a thought I'm having.
I want to share with you.
I don't know that this is going to be pleasant to hear.
I want to see how it lands with you.
And then I want to talk about.
The implications of this thing I'm about to say, we're not
hiding from those tough moments.
We're trying to make sure that those tough moments stay clean and when they don't
and when the mess is our fault, we own it, we apologize for it and we trust the
relationship will be stronger as a result.
Next item.
Be patient and curious about quote unquote progress.
Now I say quote unquote progress.
Because it's the nature of the kind of coaching that I'm talking
about that we will have ideas about what progress looks like.
Our clients may even have come to us with a definition of progress in the
form of, I want to stop doing this, I want to start doing that, I want to have
this thing I don't have yet, I want to get rid of this thing I already have.
They may have their own preconceived notions about what progress looks like.
And we're trying to collaborate through the self discovery, self acceptance,
and self direction processes that carry them to that definition of progress.
But in order to be trustworthy, we have to stay patient and stay
curious so that we can stay in optimistic, compassionate neutrality.
Because the moment that we shift and we say, you're not going as fast as
you should, we're Um, which actually just means you're not going as fast
as I think you should, which actually means I will feel better about my
coaching if I can see more concrete evidence of its effectiveness.
As soon as we get there, we've lost our trustworthiness.
We've broken our ethic,
so we've got to stay patient and we've got to stay curious.
It doesn't mean that we stay silent.
I'm not silent about my clients.
Progress or lack of progress both perceived.
Of course, just the other day.
I said to a client a client I love and respect.
I said, Hey, we're not so very far from the end of this coaching engagement.
And I want to check in with you on one point.
And I brought up the point and I said, how would you like to approach this point?
Would you like to be pushed Would you like me to redirect us back to this
point if we go off on other topics?
How are you feeling about this thing?
And to what degree do you want me to bring it back to your awareness in our sessions?
And how strongly do you want me to bring it back to your awareness in our sessions?
And then the client and I had a very productive interaction about that thing.
And the rest of our coaching engagement, which hopefully won't
be our last, but the rest of our coaching engagement will be better.
Not because I was impatient or pushing, but because I remembered
I was holding space around that point around that idea, that goal.
And I was willing to bring it back into my client's awareness.
And say, how hard should we push on this?
But that's supported by my patience and my curiosity and my total lack of agenda.
Last point here that relates to trustworthiness.
If I want to be an ethical coach, I have to stay mindful of my financial
incentives and how those financial incentives can impact the thoughts,
the feelings, and the actions that I bring to my client sessions.
If I have a client who is approaching the end of a coaching engagement
and I start to feel some fear around, what if they don't renew?
What if the client relationship ends and I don't have someone else lined up?
Oh, I need that money.
There's the key word by the way, need.
I need that money
from that moment.
There's a very real possibility, even a probability that my sense
of financial need will impact my interactions with that client in a
way that I would not feel good about if I didn't feel that financial need.
One of the best quotes I've come across in the last couple of years
is incentives are undefeated.
And what that means is.
When there is a set of incentives in your life, your behavior will
be shaped by those incentives, some conscious and some unconscious.
So if you want to stay ethical, if you want to keep your relationships
healthy with your clients, if you want to be trustworthy, you have
to hunt down the incentives and align them with your client's goals.
The shorter way to say that is I never want to need a client.
I need to order my life and my business in such a way that need doesn't feel
like part of the equation, but want always feels like part of the equation.
I want to approach my client interactions and my perspective
client interactions from.
Um, a feeling of desire as in I want to help, I'm able to help, I'm excited
to help instead of from a place of need, which is I got to get a client
really could use the money right now.
Ironically in the coaching world, it's very often true that the coach
doesn't need the money per se.
In other words, the coach doesn't rely on that money to
buy groceries or to pay rent.
But the coach is relying on that money for external validation
so the coach feels successful
And that need is going to impact your interactions with your clients in some
small ways and Unfortunately in some big ways, but you may not recognize
those impacts in the moment Because the incentives are invisible to you And the
way they're touching your your thoughts your feelings and your behaviors toward
your clients are largely invisible to you
The job is to arrange my finances in such a way that wherever I am in a client
interaction, whether I'm about to have an initial conversation, or I'm approaching
the last session in a coaching engagement.
I want to make sure that I'm clean in my head and my heart in both scenarios
and I can meet the client where they are and I want them to be able to feel
that for me there's only optimistic compassion and there is no need.
There's no sense that I need them, that I'll be worse off if they
don't sign up for coaching with me.
To make this really stark, let me say this.
If I'm looking for mental anchors to keep me solid as I'm approaching
initial conversations with clients or concluding conversations with clients,
where in both cases a transaction is imminent, I would rather have as a mental
anchor, if this client doesn't start or continue with me, it's no problem.
I would rather put my groceries on a credit card.
Then bring an attitude of need to this interaction.
In other words, I would rather my alternative be debt than to
bring an attitude of need to an interaction with a client.
Now I don't want debt to be clear and I don't want anyone else to have debt.
I'm framing that in an extreme way because I would rather have debt than poison a
client relationship with financial need.
Some of the wisest advice out there is if as a coach, you're in a position of
financial need, meaning you don't have a great way to pay rent or buy groceries
or keep yourself healthy, then get a job.
Let the wage pay your rent, buy your groceries.
Pay for your medical needs so you can stay healthy and present.
And then as you approach client interactions, you're able to do
it purely from a place of desire, optimistic, compassionate, neutrality,
and by extension, trustworthiness.
I think financial incentives deserve their own episode.
We'll probably come back to that.
It shows up a lot in trainings that coaches sell to each
other and in certifications.
That coach has offered to each other, but for now, my suggestion to myself
and to all of us is we want to be very aware of the financial incentives that
exist in a coach client relationship.
And we want to make sure that those incentives stay aligned
with our desire to be ethical.
So there you have it.
A few notes.
I think there's some good stuff in this episode, and I'm confident that
as you think about this, you'll come up with even better stuff for yourself.
I'm also completely confident that if the foundation of our work is the ethical
approach that we've defined for ourselves, that it will be the thing above all else.
That guarantees our longevity and our success in the practice.
And that should come as a great relief.
I believe coaching is a place where the good people won't finish last.
It's where good people will finish first and they'll be able to stay
in the game forever because they prioritize their ethics above all else.
And that's inherently attractive food for thought.
Thanks for spending some time with me today.
Go to markbutler.
com, sign up for the newsletter, short, insightful emails.
And with that, I'll talk to you in the next episode.