WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:07.065 --> 00:00:09.465 Candace Dellacona: Welcome to The Sandwich Generation Survival Guide. 00:00:09.465 --> 00:00:15.015 I am your host, Candace Dellacona, and I have a very special guest 00:00:15.285 --> 00:00:17.595 here with me today, Ben Kruger. 00:00:18.195 --> 00:00:22.155 Ben is one of the thought leaders in modern care. 00:00:23.100 --> 00:00:28.950 So we're so excited to have him among his many other interesting endeavors 00:00:28.980 --> 00:00:32.670 that Ben will, I'm sure share with us today, about eight years ago, right 00:00:32.670 --> 00:00:36.420 before the COVID pandemic, Ben was one of the co-founders of a company 00:00:36.420 --> 00:00:41.800 that probably many of you know called Sollis Health which provides concierge, 00:00:41.800 --> 00:00:43.630 urgent, and emergent healthcare. 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:48.700 And Ben's newest endeavor is truly unique in the healthcare, especially the 00:00:48.700 --> 00:00:50.980 sandwich generation space called Appian. 00:00:51.030 --> 00:00:53.520 So I'm delighted to have you here with us, Ben. 00:00:53.860 --> 00:00:58.690 But why don't we start from the beginning on how you arrived at the care space, 00:00:58.690 --> 00:01:04.240 because as some of our audience members may know, you started out your career in 00:01:04.240 --> 00:01:05.950 a very different area in Hollywood, right? 00:01:07.780 --> 00:01:08.500 Ben Kruger: That's right. 00:01:08.530 --> 00:01:11.650 And firstly, I'd just like to say thank you so much for having me, Candace. 00:01:11.650 --> 00:01:17.330 I do love the show, and I think that what you are touching on is so important 00:01:17.330 --> 00:01:19.280 and it's a real passion area of mine. 00:01:19.670 --> 00:01:20.840 And you are correct. 00:01:20.890 --> 00:01:23.800 I got to where I am through a quite a circuitous route. 00:01:24.250 --> 00:01:25.480 I'm from New York City. 00:01:25.790 --> 00:01:30.810 I grew up as the son of a single parent my father, I lived with my father who 00:01:30.810 --> 00:01:36.655 was one of the leaders and early creators of the concierge primary care model. 00:01:36.975 --> 00:01:41.525 And much of my early life was spent tagging along with my dad 00:01:41.805 --> 00:01:44.965 on, house calls or to the hospital. 00:01:45.155 --> 00:01:51.065 And just seeing him engage with patients really in this very old fashioned. 00:01:51.765 --> 00:01:55.235 Person to person, empathetic way that when I was growing 00:01:55.235 --> 00:01:56.975 up just seemed like the norm. 00:01:57.285 --> 00:02:04.715 He was the trusted resource and therapist and doctor and really, 00:02:04.765 --> 00:02:08.575 that trusted source for people where they knew they could call on him at 00:02:08.575 --> 00:02:10.375 any time and he was gonna be there. 00:02:10.665 --> 00:02:14.235 Whether it was for the medical care or just as a shoulder to 00:02:14.235 --> 00:02:15.885 cry on or a support system. 00:02:15.935 --> 00:02:21.155 And that's, as I grew up, how I expected healthcare to be. 00:02:21.695 --> 00:02:24.965 I again, then took a long and circuitous route. 00:02:24.995 --> 00:02:27.665 For me, I never thought that I wanted to be a doctor. 00:02:27.995 --> 00:02:33.205 I think I was maybe, too lazy to actually put in the long hours. 00:02:33.605 --> 00:02:38.535 And so I went to a, after college I ended up, finding myself drawn 00:02:38.535 --> 00:02:40.925 to entertainment like many do. 00:02:40.925 --> 00:02:45.915 And I ended up heading out from New York City to Los Angeles after school. 00:02:46.135 --> 00:02:48.715 And I pursued a career in entertainment. 00:02:48.975 --> 00:02:49.845 I was a writer. 00:02:49.845 --> 00:02:51.525 I worked on television shows. 00:02:51.525 --> 00:02:54.055 I sold a number feature films. 00:02:54.055 --> 00:02:59.395 I produced a feature of film and found my way into digital media. 00:03:00.190 --> 00:03:05.130 Again, a long story, but eventually worked at a digital media company that 00:03:05.130 --> 00:03:06.660 was acquired by an investment group. 00:03:07.860 --> 00:03:12.370 Ended up loving the work that I was doing with that investment group 00:03:12.370 --> 00:03:18.050 and they hired me on to become their head of investment sourcing. 00:03:18.440 --> 00:03:21.100 And so really what I was doing, they had a venture model. 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:26.725 And so I was then sitting on the buy side listening to entrepreneurs and 00:03:26.725 --> 00:03:31.735 founders talk about their ideas, their visions, companies they'd already started 00:03:31.735 --> 00:03:36.265 and the challenges they were having or ideas that they wanted us to invest in. 00:03:36.295 --> 00:03:43.285 And it scratched a lot of the same itches that entertainment and writing did for me. 00:03:43.940 --> 00:03:46.775 Candace Dellacona: Just to bring everyone in the loop. 00:03:46.775 --> 00:03:50.465 When you say you had a career in entertainment, you had a very successful 00:03:50.465 --> 00:03:54.095 career in entertainment, you're being very humble, and so you found 00:03:54.095 --> 00:03:55.600 the success at a pretty young age. 00:03:56.930 --> 00:04:04.160 You were exposed to this concept of being a founder and the ideas coming to 00:04:04.160 --> 00:04:08.270 life, it sounds like, which is another departure from like you didn't go to med 00:04:08.270 --> 00:04:10.310 school, you become a creative person. 00:04:10.310 --> 00:04:12.020 You're successful, you conquer that. 00:04:12.290 --> 00:04:18.230 You see yet another sort of opportunity or avenue that you'd like to pursue just 00:04:18.230 --> 00:04:20.300 by being a witness to it, it sounds like. 00:04:21.455 --> 00:04:26.730 Ben Kruger: Yeah I think that's true and I think I've said this before to 00:04:26.820 --> 00:04:30.810 people, it's usually anxious parents who come to me and they say, my kid 00:04:30.810 --> 00:04:32.340 wants to get into entertainment. 00:04:32.340 --> 00:04:33.420 What should I tell them? 00:04:33.420 --> 00:04:34.230 What should I do? 00:04:34.570 --> 00:04:41.460 And I say, well, for me working in Hollywood, I as Candace very kindly 00:04:41.490 --> 00:04:45.440 said, I worked on a network TV show called Brothers and Sisters. 00:04:45.490 --> 00:04:47.050 I wrote pilots. 00:04:47.050 --> 00:04:48.670 I sold movies. 00:04:48.990 --> 00:04:55.420 I was on one of the very early digital video, YouTube shows that I ran. 00:04:55.870 --> 00:05:00.480 And what I found was that entertainment, the process of 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:03.160 building of telling a story. 00:05:03.745 --> 00:05:08.965 Bringing that story to life is a very similar parallel 00:05:08.965 --> 00:05:11.605 process to building a business. 00:05:11.665 --> 00:05:17.485 You are coming up with a concept that is going to serve a specific audience. 00:05:17.695 --> 00:05:22.735 You have to pitch it, you have to sell someone on it so that they 00:05:22.735 --> 00:05:26.035 will give you money so that you can go out and create that thing. 00:05:26.255 --> 00:05:30.225 And then you're pulling in different pieces and different 00:05:30.225 --> 00:05:33.555 resources to execute this vision. 00:05:33.815 --> 00:05:36.575 So there's a lot of similarities. 00:05:36.815 --> 00:05:41.345 What I ended up finding was when I was then on the side and listening 00:05:41.345 --> 00:05:46.385 to entrepreneurs pitch me their ideas is that Hollywood creates this 00:05:46.445 --> 00:05:52.275 incredibly byzantine bureaucracy around the creative process. 00:05:52.635 --> 00:05:57.975 It's really everyone is trying to make money out of the process of making things. 00:05:58.305 --> 00:06:01.185 And things may be a little different today with the creator 00:06:01.185 --> 00:06:04.185 economy, and it's a lot easier and faster and cheaper to make stuff. 00:06:04.515 --> 00:06:10.095 But 15, 20 years ago, you really had all of these gatekeepers. 00:06:10.965 --> 00:06:14.515 And then I would look at a, a young. 00:06:14.950 --> 00:06:19.520 I remember this young female entrepreneur coming in and she had a a tech product in 00:06:19.520 --> 00:06:21.980 the news space and she just had a concept. 00:06:21.980 --> 00:06:29.560 She was building it and there weren't the same kind of barriers to entry 00:06:29.890 --> 00:06:33.470 for you needed money and you needed the vision and the skill, right? 00:06:33.770 --> 00:06:34.100 But. 00:06:34.655 --> 00:06:37.895 There weren't agents and lawyers and everyone saying, well, 00:06:37.895 --> 00:06:39.305 no, it's gotta go through me. 00:06:39.305 --> 00:06:41.305 It's gotta go through, will the studio say yes? 00:06:41.345 --> 00:06:46.175 And so I was really inspired by the creativity that entrepreneurs could 00:06:46.175 --> 00:06:51.315 execute and the real world problems that they could solve and iterate and 00:06:51.355 --> 00:06:59.065 so I thought, maybe this is the best way to express my ideas and creativity. 00:06:59.375 --> 00:07:04.115 And so I started to have this nagging feeling as I was sitting there, 00:07:04.845 --> 00:07:08.085 listening to people pitch to me thinking like, I'd love to be doing that. 00:07:08.415 --> 00:07:12.755 I wanna sit on that side of the table and and build something. 00:07:13.115 --> 00:07:16.355 And something that had a real impact as well. 00:07:16.475 --> 00:07:20.665 And again, for me, I think just naturally I gravitated to a lot of the 00:07:20.665 --> 00:07:27.035 healthcare startup ideas and healthcare deals that were happening at the time. 00:07:28.205 --> 00:07:33.955 And so we're, we're talking back, maybe 20 12, 13, 14. 00:07:33.995 --> 00:07:40.550 And there were a lot of there was a lot of focus at that time and 00:07:40.550 --> 00:07:45.200 still today it's growing even more on the consumer side of healthcare. 00:07:45.248 --> 00:07:46.858 Candace Dellacona: Especially in the US right? 00:07:46.918 --> 00:07:47.878 Ben Kruger: Yes, absolutely. 00:07:48.098 --> 00:07:52.758 And and again, I think that, we forget that, healthcare in 00:07:52.758 --> 00:07:56.598 the United States accounts for something like a fifth of our GDP. 00:07:56.788 --> 00:08:00.028 It is a massive, massive part of our economy. 00:08:00.358 --> 00:08:05.518 And obviously most of it is focused on the payer side either 00:08:05.518 --> 00:08:08.318 insurance or Medicare, et cetera. 00:08:08.588 --> 00:08:15.208 But more and more there have been efforts to provide a more consumer 00:08:15.208 --> 00:08:17.908 friendly version of healthcare. 00:08:18.188 --> 00:08:21.878 And I think a lot of what was happening really is that people were 00:08:22.508 --> 00:08:28.958 experiencing healthcare in the sort of big box version of healthcare. 00:08:28.988 --> 00:08:33.008 And were constantly being disappointed by the experience. 00:08:33.218 --> 00:08:39.168 And I think all of us, I don't need to explain, how challenging it can be 00:08:39.168 --> 00:08:45.153 to get, not quality care in America, but a quality experience of care. 00:08:45.623 --> 00:08:52.043 And so I was looking at these concepts that were trying to address this issue 00:08:52.403 --> 00:08:56.603 and what I found was I related to it enormously because as a child, again, I 00:08:56.603 --> 00:09:03.893 go back to this, you know how I grew up, I grew up with thinking that healthcare 00:09:03.893 --> 00:09:08.013 in America was, this wonderful, warm, man. 00:09:08.433 --> 00:09:12.483 This doctor who would answer your phone call in the middle of the night 00:09:12.753 --> 00:09:17.703 and do whatever needed to be done to help you and provide the comfort that 00:09:17.703 --> 00:09:24.573 you needed without asking you know, who your insurance provider was or 00:09:24.753 --> 00:09:28.893 saying, well, you can't really have that procedure because it's not covered. 00:09:29.163 --> 00:09:36.603 Or, no, you need to wait three weeks for imaging because we can't 00:09:37.323 --> 00:09:39.753 get it to you in a timely manner. 00:09:40.003 --> 00:09:46.393 And so I, that's how I grew up thinking that people should be treated. 00:09:46.543 --> 00:09:53.138 And, it was my own adult realization, just like growing up and having to 00:09:53.138 --> 00:09:56.428 pay taxes that yeah, you're gonna pay a lot for insurance and you're 00:09:56.428 --> 00:09:57.808 not gonna get a lot in return. 00:09:58.278 --> 00:10:01.098 Candace Dellacona: All of that's to say is that you're exposed to 00:10:01.098 --> 00:10:07.068 these founders who have a passion and they have a problem that they've 00:10:07.068 --> 00:10:08.748 identified that they wanna solve. 00:10:09.388 --> 00:10:12.688 All of your experience and the culmination about your exposure 00:10:12.688 --> 00:10:15.538 to young age, to healthcare and what you thought it would be. 00:10:16.078 --> 00:10:20.008 And being in the creative space, and you talked about like this 00:10:20.128 --> 00:10:24.478 Byzantine system, which is exactly what the healthcare system is. 00:10:24.838 --> 00:10:31.258 So it's almost like all of these things converged for you as a founder answering 00:10:31.258 --> 00:10:38.508 the question, making it so that healthcare is accessible and has resemblance to what 00:10:38.508 --> 00:10:40.153 you thought it was when you were a kid. 00:10:40.968 --> 00:10:44.198 Which is a really beautiful way to think about how it came to 00:10:44.198 --> 00:10:45.998 you, how you came into this space. 00:10:45.998 --> 00:10:51.898 So can you tell us a little bit about, what you saw the first need was as it 00:10:51.898 --> 00:10:57.328 relates to Sollis, which is the first company you co-founded with your dad 00:10:57.328 --> 00:10:59.578 and another partner, Sollis Health. 00:10:59.578 --> 00:11:02.068 Tell us a little bit about Sollis and how you got there. 00:11:02.309 --> 00:11:07.404 Ben Kruger: I was looking, at different concepts that were emerging. 00:11:07.574 --> 00:11:15.394 And I got very interested in the growth of urgent care. 00:11:16.024 --> 00:11:24.214 And urgent care solves one specific need around immediate and urgent medical needs 00:11:24.464 --> 00:11:32.554 which is creating more convenience as opposed to using an emergency room for 00:11:32.554 --> 00:11:38.564 your urgent medical needs or trying to call your primary care physician who 00:11:38.564 --> 00:11:42.499 really isn't exactly the right person. 00:11:42.499 --> 00:11:46.009 Doesn't have necessarily the right facilities capacity, 00:11:46.009 --> 00:11:47.689 et cetera, to schedule to 00:11:47.824 --> 00:11:48.784 Candace Dellacona: whatever, right? 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:49.669 Ben Kruger: see you exactly. 00:11:49.909 --> 00:11:51.019 To see you immediately. 00:11:51.319 --> 00:11:56.089 Urgent cares were popping up and becoming quite successful 00:11:56.089 --> 00:11:58.219 and solving part of that need. 00:11:58.219 --> 00:12:02.594 And the idea was always that they would step in for the primary 00:12:02.594 --> 00:12:07.264 care doctors and for the emergency rooms and sort of fill that gap. 00:12:07.554 --> 00:12:10.344 And in New York City, especially at the time there was a company 00:12:10.344 --> 00:12:12.234 called CityMD, which was growing. 00:12:12.514 --> 00:12:17.244 And I met the the founder there, Rich Park and got very interested 00:12:17.244 --> 00:12:18.624 in what their model was. 00:12:18.624 --> 00:12:22.854 And it was to, build as many of these boxes on as many corners as possible 00:12:22.854 --> 00:12:27.114 and try and create more convenience for the consumer so that, hey, I have 00:12:27.114 --> 00:12:29.004 a need, I can go right down there. 00:12:29.004 --> 00:12:31.519 And the Starbucks model of urgent care. 00:12:32.234 --> 00:12:39.834 So that did and helps to solve part of the need, which is convenient access. 00:12:40.124 --> 00:12:41.179 Candace Dellacona: But not the personal part. 00:12:42.304 --> 00:12:43.204 Ben Kruger: Exactly. 00:12:43.254 --> 00:12:47.184 On the other hand, concierge care was really growing. 00:12:47.194 --> 00:12:53.014 My dad was one of the early adopters of this model, which is, as many of you 00:12:53.014 --> 00:13:00.599 will know it's taking a membership or subscription approach to primary care and 00:13:01.169 --> 00:13:07.274 that was growing as again, people wanted a closer relationship to their doctor. 00:13:07.994 --> 00:13:11.324 They didn't just want their insurance company telling them 00:13:11.324 --> 00:13:13.184 which doctor they should go to. 00:13:13.184 --> 00:13:19.184 They wanted to choose the doctor and they wanted to be able to call the 00:13:19.184 --> 00:13:24.064 doctor when they needed and not worry that the doctor was just charging 00:13:24.064 --> 00:13:29.494 them hourly or was unavailable to them because they couldn't be paid. 00:13:29.764 --> 00:13:35.474 That there would be more alignment with the long-term health by creating 00:13:35.474 --> 00:13:38.189 this longer term relationship. 00:13:38.189 --> 00:13:44.899 And there were a number of businesses trying to take that concierge model out 00:13:44.899 --> 00:13:50.979 of the individual concierge doctor model and create a more scalable solution. 00:13:51.049 --> 00:13:58.249 But what I was seeing was and really what I identified was that for urgent 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:04.819 care and the experience of going to the urgent care, it was still this kind of 00:14:04.819 --> 00:14:09.169 clunky experience, this one-off experience where, oh, I have an urgent need, but 00:14:09.169 --> 00:14:10.939 then you have to go into the urgent care. 00:14:11.179 --> 00:14:12.889 You have to give them your insurance. 00:14:13.129 --> 00:14:14.749 You have to wait online. 00:14:14.869 --> 00:14:16.249 They don't know who you are. 00:14:16.369 --> 00:14:18.079 They have to take your medical history. 00:14:18.239 --> 00:14:23.519 It can work well, but it can also be a really relatively onerous process. 00:14:23.649 --> 00:14:27.699 It's not the emergency room, but you can wait a really long time. 00:14:27.999 --> 00:14:34.559 And as these urgent cares were also being purchased by private equity companies the 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:41.069 pressure for them to squeeze their margins was such that there's incentive for those 00:14:41.069 --> 00:14:45.139 companies to hire lower level providers. 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:50.899 Who might be less seasoned and you might actually provide less quality care. 00:14:51.409 --> 00:14:54.559 And so the experience you get there is not great. 00:14:54.829 --> 00:15:03.409 Meanwhile, concierge doctors, they still have the problem of what to do when 00:15:03.409 --> 00:15:08.399 someone needs something immediately, because, you have these amazing 00:15:08.579 --> 00:15:13.394 internists, but you cut your hand, they dunno how to sew you up, right? 00:15:13.724 --> 00:15:15.344 Or they shouldn't sew you up, right? 00:15:15.614 --> 00:15:17.864 And they don't have capacity in their office and they're 00:15:17.864 --> 00:15:19.034 just not built for that. 00:15:19.304 --> 00:15:22.104 You have tummy pain, you need imaging. 00:15:22.464 --> 00:15:23.814 They can't do that. 00:15:23.814 --> 00:15:31.254 So they also had this need for this urgent and emergency support. 00:15:31.824 --> 00:15:36.384 So the concept came to us and it was through conversations with my 00:15:36.384 --> 00:15:41.499 father about what his business could use and what his service could use 00:15:41.829 --> 00:15:48.489 and what was in the market that what if we applied the membership? 00:15:48.939 --> 00:15:55.689 Approach to experience and that long-term alignment with patients and 00:15:55.749 --> 00:16:00.279 medical providers and applied that to the urgent emergency care space. 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:04.719 And so that was the basic concept of Sollis in a nutshell. 00:16:04.719 --> 00:16:10.749 It was create a subscription version of the urgent care slash emergency room. 00:16:11.269 --> 00:16:17.889 We built that, we started that in 2016 and really it was to serve 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:22.729 concierge doctors and a lot of the, private doctors and their patients. 00:16:22.729 --> 00:16:24.319 And we really started very small. 00:16:24.709 --> 00:16:29.099 And it was really, we bootstrapped the company, not knowing what we didn't know. 00:16:30.249 --> 00:16:37.699 Built it from scratch and the concept started to take on attraction. 00:16:37.699 --> 00:16:42.769 And really most importantly, the doctors out there loved the concept 00:16:43.069 --> 00:16:45.074 and were engaging with us as partners. 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:49.609 Candace Dellacona: So I love the fact, a, as a sandwich generation member, that it's 00:16:49.609 --> 00:16:51.349 a concept that you came up with your dad. 00:16:52.069 --> 00:16:57.309 And, you brought your certainly different skillset together to 00:16:57.309 --> 00:17:00.489 solve a problem that your dad had. 00:17:00.489 --> 00:17:07.469 So you helped him, the elder fix a problem that he felt through creativity 00:17:07.479 --> 00:17:12.169 and with that being said, and the concept of concierge taking off, 00:17:12.779 --> 00:17:16.589 other than the obvious, and before we get to your newest endeavor. 00:17:17.144 --> 00:17:24.474 Why do you think the concept of concierge care is resonating with so many people? 00:17:24.474 --> 00:17:30.304 Is it because you read the times and you read that our healthcare system is broken. 00:17:30.604 --> 00:17:37.654 Is it because people are craving that old fashioned, real meaningful 00:17:37.654 --> 00:17:39.544 relationship with your physicians? 00:17:39.544 --> 00:17:41.134 Is it a combination? 00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:45.479 What are your thoughts about why it's resonating with so many people? 00:17:47.374 --> 00:17:49.049 Ben Kruger: I believe it's all of the above. 00:17:49.169 --> 00:17:49.259 Candace Dellacona: Yeah. 00:17:50.009 --> 00:17:52.709 Ben Kruger: That's a sort of a cop out answer. 00:17:52.709 --> 00:18:02.204 But I really do think the healthcare system is in America is, it's a cliche to 00:18:02.204 --> 00:18:05.174 say it's broken, but it truly is broken. 00:18:05.224 --> 00:18:08.944 We have the greatest doctors, the greatest minds. 00:18:08.974 --> 00:18:17.014 You unquestionably will get the greatest medical care if you can in 00:18:17.014 --> 00:18:20.899 America, the greatest care that exists in the world, exists in America. 00:18:21.349 --> 00:18:27.079 But the process of accessing that care, who gets the care, how 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:31.789 you get the care is just broken. 00:18:31.969 --> 00:18:38.239 And nobody, even the most seasoned physicians, really knows the 00:18:38.239 --> 00:18:40.989 best way to navigate that system. 00:18:41.089 --> 00:18:43.309 It is extremely complex. 00:18:43.684 --> 00:18:47.074 Every single situation is different. 00:18:47.764 --> 00:18:51.574 Every hospital has a different way of working. 00:18:51.634 --> 00:18:55.954 Every insurance company, every state has different regulations. 00:18:56.244 --> 00:18:59.094 You layer into that Medicare, Medicaid. 00:19:00.204 --> 00:19:05.424 The sheer number of people in America, the needs in urban environments, 00:19:05.544 --> 00:19:13.504 underserved communities it just becomes a truly, and again, the fact that it 00:19:13.504 --> 00:19:15.574 accounts for a fifth of our economy. 00:19:16.084 --> 00:19:19.114 It is just an unwieldy monster. 00:19:19.634 --> 00:19:27.144 And I think just like anything else people want a better experience and people want 00:19:27.264 --> 00:19:31.974 to have access and they want expertise. 00:19:32.324 --> 00:19:40.329 And so I think for a certain market, it is worth spending money to get 00:19:40.329 --> 00:19:44.649 that better experience for something as important as your healthcare 00:19:45.009 --> 00:19:49.274 . Candace Dellacona: I would also say, I think it's important that it's not just 00:19:49.274 --> 00:19:51.104 experience that people are craving. 00:19:51.104 --> 00:19:51.959 They're craving good care. 00:19:53.294 --> 00:19:57.884 So we're not really talking about a luxury here, unfortunately, we're talking about 00:19:58.034 --> 00:20:01.844 having the attention span of a physician that doesn't have his hand or her hand 00:20:01.844 --> 00:20:05.144 on the door the entire time of the appointment because insurance companies 00:20:05.144 --> 00:20:08.594 are requiring that they see a client every, or patient every six minutes. 00:20:09.204 --> 00:20:13.944 So experience versus the actual care, I think is really an important distinction. 00:20:14.394 --> 00:20:19.084 I also think if I could, is that, the creation, the finding of Sollis 00:20:19.104 --> 00:20:23.774 Care, which is amazing because it answered this deficit and this area 00:20:23.774 --> 00:20:29.324 where everyone realized there, there wasn't anyone to fill that space. 00:20:29.654 --> 00:20:32.654 You then took almost a wide lens view. 00:20:32.654 --> 00:20:36.974 I'm gonna use your, one of your Hollywood terms, but a wide lens view. 00:20:37.544 --> 00:20:43.184 And you started thinking about care in a much broader way 00:20:43.634 --> 00:20:47.339 when you conceived of Appian? 00:20:47.439 --> 00:20:48.189 Is that accurate? 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:50.379 Ben Kruger: Absolutely. 00:20:51.429 --> 00:20:56.679 With the creation of Sollis, one of the things that I really 00:20:56.679 --> 00:21:00.649 enjoyed was the helping, right? 00:21:00.679 --> 00:21:06.019 The helping our clients and members deal with the problems that they were facing. 00:21:06.349 --> 00:21:13.699 And yes, solace started really as this approach to urgent emergency care, right? 00:21:13.699 --> 00:21:15.139 That, hey, I have an immediate need. 00:21:16.099 --> 00:21:23.549 But what we ended up building around that was a really powerful 00:21:24.239 --> 00:21:27.689 care navigation engine as well. 00:21:27.959 --> 00:21:32.429 So when someone would come into us, firstly, we would already know their 00:21:32.429 --> 00:21:37.019 medical histories and know who they were, which made the experience of coming 00:21:37.019 --> 00:21:43.349 in, even with a new urgent situation, a much better experience for them. 00:21:43.764 --> 00:21:49.974 By creating higher quality of care because we didn't have to rule out 50 things. 00:21:50.154 --> 00:21:53.064 We knew, okay, there's a history of this already. 00:21:53.244 --> 00:21:59.244 We can laser focus in on what that problem probably is, might be, and 00:21:59.244 --> 00:22:02.754 then execute on that much more quickly. 00:22:03.054 --> 00:22:04.664 And with a lot more focus. 00:22:04.664 --> 00:22:10.124 Similarly, we already have relationships with the rest of their care team, and so 00:22:10.214 --> 00:22:17.779 a lot of what Sollis continued to build was those touchpoint with the family. 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:21.889 Those touch points with the family's support system, the primary care 00:22:21.889 --> 00:22:26.269 doctor, maybe they have a specialist, a cardiologist an orthopedist. 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:33.349 So Sollis would then be able to sit in the middle and be able to communicate 00:22:33.439 --> 00:22:39.389 better and execute for the family, and so really create this network effect. 00:22:40.919 --> 00:22:47.219 What I realized was Sollis did that amazingly well when someone 00:22:47.219 --> 00:22:49.199 had that immediate need come in. 00:22:50.489 --> 00:22:56.639 When we were looking at a cohort of our patients who were older, 00:22:57.299 --> 00:22:57.809 Candace Dellacona: Aging. 00:22:58.709 --> 00:23:03.694 Ben Kruger: Exactly they're dealing with more healthcare 00:23:03.694 --> 00:23:07.024 complexities, more comorbidities. 00:23:07.384 --> 00:23:13.444 They have more complex social dynamics as well, 00:23:13.594 --> 00:23:14.434 Candace Dellacona: Absolutely. 00:23:14.434 --> 00:23:14.764 Yeah. 00:23:15.484 --> 00:23:18.274 Ben Kruger: Some people have, they've lost their partner. 00:23:18.325 --> 00:23:20.755 Their families may have moved away. 00:23:20.755 --> 00:23:27.055 And what I was seeing was that the needs that they were presenting 00:23:27.055 --> 00:23:29.635 were much, much, much more complex. 00:23:30.025 --> 00:23:36.115 And that Sollis did a great job trying to serve those needs, but wasn't 00:23:36.235 --> 00:23:40.665 built for that type of complexity and that type of longevity care. 00:23:41.115 --> 00:23:49.305 And so as I saw that and I also experienced my own experience as a 00:23:49.305 --> 00:23:51.525 member of the sandwich generation. 00:23:51.525 --> 00:23:55.975 I've got children and I have aging parents as well. 00:23:56.365 --> 00:24:01.075 I started to think about can we take some of the things that we learned 00:24:01.375 --> 00:24:10.220 about creating a really quality care experience and apply that to a aging 00:24:10.220 --> 00:24:14.420 market and an aging demographic who has a bit more complexity. 00:24:15.770 --> 00:24:23.090 As I looked at that, I realized too, Sollis is focused, I would 00:24:23.090 --> 00:24:33.590 say 95% or more on medical care, the needs of our aging population. 00:24:34.220 --> 00:24:41.530 Sure, the medical care needs are more and more complex, but there's all of these 00:24:41.650 --> 00:24:44.860 other needs that go along with that. 00:24:44.860 --> 00:24:50.260 And with that aging process that I was starting to look at and really start to 00:24:50.260 --> 00:24:53.570 understand more and educate myself on. 00:24:53.570 --> 00:25:02.095 And as I looked at that, I realized that there was an opportunity to try to create 00:25:02.095 --> 00:25:11.125 that same kind of support network, that advocacy, that navigation that we tried 00:25:11.125 --> 00:25:19.615 to provide to the healthcare system for Sollis, for the broader journey of aging. 00:25:20.275 --> 00:25:22.190 And that's what Appian is. 00:25:23.049 --> 00:25:27.669 Candace Dellacona: When you think about aging, and it's certainly a topic 00:25:27.669 --> 00:25:32.349 that comes up a lot on this podcast, and as members, you and I of the 00:25:32.349 --> 00:25:37.539 sandwich generation, when you become a caregiver in whatever form that 00:25:37.539 --> 00:25:39.639 is, whatever, however you define it. 00:25:40.854 --> 00:25:41.754 think you're right. 00:25:41.754 --> 00:25:46.554 Only a small percentage of what we do as advocates for our aging loved 00:25:46.554 --> 00:25:50.064 ones have to do with the medical care. 00:25:50.664 --> 00:25:54.624 And part of the reason why I actually started this podcast was to provide 00:25:54.624 --> 00:26:00.144 these resources that go beyond that because the things that we need beyond 00:26:00.144 --> 00:26:06.174 the medical care are also time consuming, also require sometimes expert guidance. 00:26:06.834 --> 00:26:12.324 And they are things that you and I as laypeople may not do as well. 00:26:12.324 --> 00:26:21.294 So what I think you explained, and correct me if I'm wrong, but, Appian seeks to 00:26:21.294 --> 00:26:28.434 serve as almost the quarterback for the network surrounding your aging loved one. 00:26:28.584 --> 00:26:32.034 And what I love about that, and one of the things that we've talked about on this 00:26:32.034 --> 00:26:34.284 podcast too, is the concept of solo aging. 00:26:34.284 --> 00:26:38.484 Because you don't always have a network of people that can 00:26:38.484 --> 00:26:40.074 step in and advocate for you. 00:26:40.074 --> 00:26:47.694 So, when you come up with the concept of Appian, I'm curious to know, as 00:26:47.694 --> 00:26:52.404 your dad who was, say, focused on the care, what did everybody say to you? 00:26:52.404 --> 00:26:54.204 Did they say you're onto something Ben? 00:26:54.204 --> 00:26:55.374 Did they say you're crazy. 00:26:55.374 --> 00:26:59.034 It's too expansive, it's too big of an idea, it's too ambitious. 00:26:59.034 --> 00:27:01.024 What was the, the feedback? 00:27:01.627 --> 00:27:02.827 Ben Kruger: It's interesting you asked that. 00:27:03.097 --> 00:27:08.349 The feedback, firstly, I think stepping back really what is the concept?. 00:27:08.372 --> 00:27:14.682 I think that you identified it well, it is creating a service that can be the 00:27:14.687 --> 00:27:21.357 partner to the aging adults or the family and the caregivers and or and or both. 00:27:22.137 --> 00:27:31.557 And act really as their advocate, guide, supporter, project manager through 00:27:31.617 --> 00:27:36.207 the holistic process of aging, right? 00:27:36.247 --> 00:27:43.897 And what we see is aging is incredibly complex. 00:27:44.007 --> 00:27:44.227 Candace Dellacona: Yes. 00:27:45.127 --> 00:27:48.817 Ben Kruger: Everyone is going to have a different experience, right? 00:27:48.907 --> 00:27:51.727 Some will have extreme medical needs, some won't. 00:27:52.177 --> 00:27:53.557 Some will be aging alone. 00:27:53.557 --> 00:27:56.847 Some will have, beautiful communities and families. 00:27:57.237 --> 00:28:05.967 But for everyone, that journey is one of the most important and 00:28:05.967 --> 00:28:08.667 impactful moments of one's life. 00:28:09.147 --> 00:28:16.767 It sounds obvious, but for most people, especially in today's modern America, 00:28:17.517 --> 00:28:19.692 aging is something that happens to them. 00:28:20.962 --> 00:28:29.607 And what we seek to do is honor the process by giving people the tools to 00:28:30.612 --> 00:28:36.192 place the attention and intention on aging that it deserves, so that aging 00:28:36.192 --> 00:28:42.462 goes from a passive experience that happens into an active project that you 00:28:42.462 --> 00:28:49.902 get to engage with, and that you get to make good decisions for yourself and for 00:28:49.902 --> 00:28:55.842 your family that are going to optimize your life today and set yourself up for 00:28:55.842 --> 00:28:58.752 the best possible future you can have. 00:28:59.142 --> 00:29:02.562 Candace Dellacona: So with all of that, if you think of aging as a project, 00:29:02.562 --> 00:29:04.392 I think that's a great analogy. 00:29:04.892 --> 00:29:11.972 Creating the infrastructure so that when things do happen, when the result 00:29:11.972 --> 00:29:17.342 of the quote unquote, aging could end up in a compromised mental capacity if 00:29:17.342 --> 00:29:21.032 you have a memory impairment issue or you're physically more limited than you 00:29:21.032 --> 00:29:25.052 once were having that infrastructure in place, and you and I have talked about 00:29:25.052 --> 00:29:30.092 this a bunch of times, Ben, it provides choices so that there is no crisis. 00:29:30.092 --> 00:29:33.692 And I think that's one of the main points that I try to make with my 00:29:33.692 --> 00:29:38.912 clients, with our listeners, is that when you set up yourself for success, 00:29:39.482 --> 00:29:44.702 and you think about what the future holds and lay the plan so that it's 00:29:44.702 --> 00:29:47.372 plug and play, it is much more seamless. 00:29:47.372 --> 00:29:54.442 There are less mistakes, it is less costly than making a really misguided 00:29:54.832 --> 00:29:58.132 under the gun decision in crisis mode. 00:29:58.582 --> 00:30:04.477 And so I think what is also quite universal in setting up this plan is 00:30:05.197 --> 00:30:13.007 children of, the older generations, many of us struggle with, how do we even 00:30:13.007 --> 00:30:19.827 start this conversation to say, Hey, mom, dad, aunt, uncle, whomever it is. 00:30:20.367 --> 00:30:21.417 What's the plan? 00:30:21.417 --> 00:30:25.077 How do we start that dialogue? 00:30:25.167 --> 00:30:26.727 What's your best advice? 00:30:27.256 --> 00:30:34.726 Ben Kruger: The best advice that I have through this process and my experience is 00:30:36.856 --> 00:30:38.686 not to wait to engage. 00:30:39.346 --> 00:30:42.466 Engage now in a conversation. 00:30:44.266 --> 00:30:53.706 And secondarily, it's to really listen , as the members of the sandwich generation 00:30:53.706 --> 00:31:04.676 to really try to understand what are the goals and desires of the aging loved one? 00:31:05.096 --> 00:31:06.896 What is it that they want? 00:31:07.166 --> 00:31:09.176 What are they scared of? 00:31:09.386 --> 00:31:10.646 What don't they want? 00:31:11.126 --> 00:31:20.246 The first step is to really get to know them and go more deeply into their 00:31:21.521 --> 00:31:24.041 hopes and dreams and fears as well. 00:31:24.041 --> 00:31:26.201 Fears play a huge part of that. 00:31:27.101 --> 00:31:34.301 I think the challenge is for a lot of people and a lot of us, the relationships 00:31:34.301 --> 00:31:36.731 that we have can be complicated. 00:31:37.091 --> 00:31:40.701 It's very hard for a lot of people to have the kind of open 00:31:40.701 --> 00:31:43.551 conversations that they hope to have. 00:31:43.761 --> 00:31:46.071 Not everybody has those tools. 00:31:46.491 --> 00:31:50.511 People have the tools of, let me fix a problem and, I can get on the 00:31:50.511 --> 00:31:52.401 internet and I'll figure something out. 00:31:52.761 --> 00:31:59.241 But those other tools, especially when it's with your parents are more complex. 00:31:59.241 --> 00:32:00.891 It is more challenging. 00:32:01.231 --> 00:32:11.451 So in some ways we can serve as an intermediary or that third party who can 00:32:11.721 --> 00:32:17.591 step in there and have that conversation and start that dialogue in a way and it 00:32:17.591 --> 00:32:24.281 allows people to speak to us potentially in a way that they might not be able to 00:32:24.281 --> 00:32:27.371 speak to their children and they might not be able to speak to their parents. 00:32:27.641 --> 00:32:34.031 But I think generally the more you can do to really ask open-ended questions, 00:32:35.261 --> 00:32:39.701 honor and accept what you're hearing. 00:32:40.121 --> 00:32:41.261 And I'll give an example. 00:32:41.801 --> 00:32:49.261 For instance, my mother and my stepfather they live outside of New York City. 00:32:49.261 --> 00:32:55.021 They live about an hour out of town in a three story home that is not 00:32:55.021 --> 00:32:58.831 really aging appropriate, let's say. 00:32:59.251 --> 00:33:06.616 And the conversation about where to age and how has been an ongoing conversation. 00:33:07.216 --> 00:33:14.139 And the first time I asked the question about this I approached 00:33:14.139 --> 00:33:18.219 it like, Hey, your house isn't safe in case something happens, 00:33:18.219 --> 00:33:19.719 what's gonna happen in the winter? 00:33:19.729 --> 00:33:22.699 If someone slips and falls and gets hurt, you don't have a 00:33:22.699 --> 00:33:24.079 bathroom on your first floor. 00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:25.804 This is a disaster waiting to happen. 00:33:27.064 --> 00:33:28.204 What are you gonna do? 00:33:28.414 --> 00:33:29.224 How can I help. 00:33:30.604 --> 00:33:36.034 That was not met with the kind of, warmth and appreciative 00:33:36.194 --> 00:33:38.414 appreciation that I expected. 00:33:38.664 --> 00:33:42.834 And instead it was, Hey, we've got it covered. 00:33:43.074 --> 00:33:44.274 Don't worry about it. 00:33:44.644 --> 00:33:46.494 And we're figuring something out. 00:33:46.934 --> 00:33:52.754 And what I didn't realize was I was projecting all of my fears 00:33:52.754 --> 00:33:54.704 and all of my needs onto them. 00:33:55.034 --> 00:33:58.994 The need for me was, or my fear is, okay, you're gonna get hurt. 00:33:59.184 --> 00:34:04.104 And my need is I want you to be safe, and I wanna know what's happening so 00:34:04.104 --> 00:34:06.474 I'm not called in the middle of the night and have to deal with this. 00:34:06.474 --> 00:34:07.974 I mean, sort of selfishly, 00:34:08.229 --> 00:34:09.279 Candace Dellacona: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:34:09.609 --> 00:34:10.149 Yeah. 00:34:10.274 --> 00:34:17.744 Ben Kruger: But that's just not ultimately how these conversations work best. 00:34:17.924 --> 00:34:25.024 And so instead asking, Hey, if you had your dream scenario of how you're 00:34:25.024 --> 00:34:30.544 going to live the next 10 years of your life and where you're going to 00:34:30.544 --> 00:34:31.954 live, like what does that look like? 00:34:32.794 --> 00:34:37.499 What would be, your kind of nightmare scenario. 00:34:37.499 --> 00:34:38.549 What don't you want? 00:34:39.029 --> 00:34:44.219 So and a lot of the time what happens is people say you'll speak to an aging adult, 00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:47.219 and I don't know what the percentage is, but a very high percentage of people will 00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:49.019 say, Hey, I wanna, I want to age in place. 00:34:49.019 --> 00:34:50.069 I wanna live at home. 00:34:50.309 --> 00:34:54.964 A lot of that has to do with comfort, the community that they have. 00:34:55.014 --> 00:34:56.724 But all of those things are changing too. 00:34:57.294 --> 00:35:03.384 So helping to have a really complex and sort of intentional dialogue around 00:35:03.384 --> 00:35:08.004 this will unlock options and decisions. 00:35:08.324 --> 00:35:15.084 I think, the same goes for this big question of taking away the keys, right? 00:35:15.194 --> 00:35:15.729 For the driver. 00:35:16.439 --> 00:35:20.189 How do you talk to someone who you don't feel safe with them driving? 00:35:20.819 --> 00:35:27.569 It's not that people necessarily are so desperate to drive their own car, driving 00:35:27.569 --> 00:35:30.179 isn't that great, but what is great? 00:35:30.569 --> 00:35:31.469 Independence. 00:35:31.849 --> 00:35:38.059 And so how can you come up with understanding what the fear is? 00:35:38.059 --> 00:35:39.619 I'm gonna lose my independence. 00:35:39.829 --> 00:35:40.069 Okay. 00:35:40.069 --> 00:35:47.404 How can we solve for that issue while also solving for the safety issue. 00:35:47.734 --> 00:35:51.784 And I think it takes that kind of intentionality and that kind 00:35:51.784 --> 00:35:54.214 of thoughtfulness and time. 00:35:54.454 --> 00:35:57.634 And not everybody has that, and not everybody has that relationship. 00:35:58.309 --> 00:35:59.059 Candace Dellacona: I think you're right. 00:35:59.059 --> 00:36:03.559 I think one of the things that many people struggle with is the role 00:36:03.559 --> 00:36:05.359 that you play within the family unit. 00:36:05.359 --> 00:36:07.639 It's a role that you've played for a really long time. 00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:10.189 And I think sometimes there is a role reversal. 00:36:10.189 --> 00:36:15.559 I had that with my own dad where he was seeking advice for me in 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:17.629 ways that he had never done before. 00:36:18.139 --> 00:36:19.339 It was strange. 00:36:19.419 --> 00:36:20.679 It was unnerving. 00:36:20.919 --> 00:36:26.139 I was lucky that he actually thought that my input was valuable. 00:36:26.139 --> 00:36:29.349 I think a lot of adult children don't have that experience. 00:36:29.399 --> 00:36:32.339 One of the things that you said, and I think it's the key 00:36:32.339 --> 00:36:33.659 to all of it, is listening. 00:36:34.439 --> 00:36:39.239 And sometimes your family relationship doesn't really allow for that. 00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:44.069 So having a neutral third party, whether it's Appian or geriatric care manager 00:36:44.069 --> 00:36:51.099 in general, I think people should think of the professionals in the context 00:36:51.189 --> 00:36:57.069 of being able to push in on certain subjects so that the information 00:36:57.069 --> 00:37:02.169 that we need as adult children and advocates, who cares how we get it. 00:37:03.129 --> 00:37:06.309 If it comes from the geriatric care manager 'cause mom or dad or aunt or 00:37:06.309 --> 00:37:08.409 uncle couldn't say it out loud to you. 00:37:08.409 --> 00:37:09.189 It doesn't matter. 00:37:09.584 --> 00:37:17.809 But the more data and information we have, the better we're able to plan for and help 00:37:17.809 --> 00:37:19.639 our loved one plan for what it looks like. 00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:23.909 And just, based on what you said, Ben you come, to your mom and your stepdad and you 00:37:23.909 --> 00:37:26.249 love them and you're like afraid for them. 00:37:26.579 --> 00:37:29.309 I'm sure what they heard is, I know best. 00:37:29.619 --> 00:37:31.209 You are not doing this. 00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:35.529 So changing that dialogue I think is really important. 00:37:35.529 --> 00:37:40.419 And it is so great to have a neutral third party that can help you do that 00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:45.489 so that you can continue with your, relationship as complex as it is, 00:37:46.029 --> 00:37:49.149 you don't also have to solve for, how do you find out what their hopes and 00:37:49.149 --> 00:37:51.939 dreams are when you've never had a conversation like that in 45 years? 00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:52.519 Ben Kruger: Absolutely. 00:37:52.534 --> 00:37:59.179 And, look, I'm a traditional like fixer and problem solver type. 00:37:59.229 --> 00:38:00.219 That's who I am. 00:38:00.219 --> 00:38:02.559 That's who I am in my business. 00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:11.239 But whether it's with your children or your spouse or your aging parents, how 00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:15.649 you engage and how you listen and how you show up really, really matters. 00:38:15.649 --> 00:38:23.299 And so I think what I'm trying to build, too, is a service that can do both. 00:38:23.749 --> 00:38:31.914 We will absolutely do, and we are the project manager, problem solver, network. 00:38:32.604 --> 00:38:36.744 And that's the sort of engine that I'm building and is really taking 00:38:36.794 --> 00:38:42.404 this idea of care management, of care coordination, of navigation, and 00:38:43.184 --> 00:38:48.844 adding a technological underpinning to that to make it more efficient. 00:38:49.054 --> 00:38:52.744 And so whenever you have a need, we are there to solve it. 00:38:53.044 --> 00:38:55.894 That is the core underpinning. 00:38:56.404 --> 00:39:02.769 But, what we realize and what my concept really is that it has to 00:39:02.769 --> 00:39:12.159 engage in the human, emotional, intentional way that will speak 00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:14.289 to people where they actually are. 00:39:14.679 --> 00:39:20.814 Because one of the challenges with all of this is getting people to make those 00:39:20.814 --> 00:39:26.334 decisions, getting people to start, take that first step on the journey. 00:39:26.614 --> 00:39:28.564 And that's why we think of it as a journey. 00:39:29.104 --> 00:39:34.954 But if you can help people along to take those steps and then you're 00:39:34.954 --> 00:39:39.514 providing them with all of the resources that they need to execute 00:39:39.934 --> 00:39:42.574 and helping to keep them on the path. 00:39:43.034 --> 00:39:49.394 We are gonna take this detour and that will mean this, but then we end up over 00:39:49.394 --> 00:39:54.184 here and if you help them along, then it becomes a really empowering process. 00:39:55.204 --> 00:39:58.054 Candace Dellacona: One of the things that we talk about often is the fact 00:39:58.054 --> 00:40:01.564 that it is empowering, that we wanna engage our loved ones so that we're 00:40:01.564 --> 00:40:05.704 not the one making the decision when it's long past the time that they can. 00:40:06.184 --> 00:40:09.184 And we're supposing what they want. 00:40:09.184 --> 00:40:12.034 We're just assuming I think that they would want this. 00:40:12.034 --> 00:40:15.794 So it's really nice to involve, your loved one in the dialogue 00:40:15.794 --> 00:40:17.664 so that they can pick the course. 00:40:17.964 --> 00:40:21.054 And so there isn't a lot of getting off the path. 00:40:21.404 --> 00:40:28.139 And whether it's Appian or any other methodology you choose as you age, I think 00:40:28.139 --> 00:40:33.599 one of the key factors, Ben, that you and I have talked about often is the plan. 00:40:34.259 --> 00:40:40.379 And having the plan in place will allow you to age well. 00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:46.469 And whether that looks like a really strong family unit where powers can be 00:40:46.469 --> 00:40:52.199 delegated and tasks can be handed out because you have a family of physicians 00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:54.059 and social workers and finance people. 00:40:54.089 --> 00:40:55.379 Awesome, that's great. 00:40:55.859 --> 00:41:01.109 But the conversation has to start about what the expectations are and how to set 00:41:01.109 --> 00:41:04.589 up that framework in advance of a crisis. 00:41:05.249 --> 00:41:10.565 So I will say that, looking at Appian and, I really hope that this is the 00:41:10.565 --> 00:41:17.115 way of the future that, our goal as a human race is to age well, even 00:41:17.115 --> 00:41:20.535 though in America, obviously we're so focused on youth, but that's one of 00:41:20.535 --> 00:41:23.355 the inevitable sort of factors of life. 00:41:23.355 --> 00:41:26.025 If you are lucky enough to have a long life, you're gonna age. 00:41:26.685 --> 00:41:33.075 So it's awesome that you've come up with this concept to really try to address 00:41:33.075 --> 00:41:38.955 this giant issue that we're all going to face whether ourselves or we're going to 00:41:38.955 --> 00:41:41.235 advocate for somebody else in the process. 00:41:41.415 --> 00:41:44.575 I think the other part, and I've mentioned this a couple of times 00:41:44.575 --> 00:41:48.325 before, we have people watching us, and those people are our children. 00:41:48.395 --> 00:41:49.955 We're modeling for them. 00:41:50.195 --> 00:41:58.175 So the way in which we are providing care to our aging loved ones is being witnessed 00:41:58.175 --> 00:42:01.505 by the generation of people we're trying to bring up to do better than we did. 00:42:02.007 --> 00:42:03.657 Ben Kruger: That's absolutely right. 00:42:04.347 --> 00:42:12.097 I love seeing my children with my parents and having them experience that kind of 00:42:12.107 --> 00:42:15.127 beautiful, multi-generational experience. 00:42:15.457 --> 00:42:20.777 And again, I think, when we look back 50 years or into other cultures, 00:42:21.722 --> 00:42:23.342 families were all living together. 00:42:23.342 --> 00:42:27.002 There really was this amazing network effect that you could have. 00:42:27.302 --> 00:42:32.612 But in today's society, again, things are quite fragmented. 00:42:33.122 --> 00:42:35.972 People's lives are quite individualistic. 00:42:36.182 --> 00:42:38.702 Everyone is busy and doing their thing. 00:42:39.242 --> 00:42:45.002 And there isn't also that kind of multi-generational, natural experience 00:42:45.002 --> 00:42:50.102 that one would have and roadmap that one would've already had of well, I've 00:42:50.102 --> 00:42:52.832 seen someone age, I've witnessed it. 00:42:52.832 --> 00:42:55.352 I've seen, I saw my aunt do that for my grandmother. 00:42:55.402 --> 00:42:57.142 I've been there along the way. 00:42:57.142 --> 00:42:58.522 And so there's a blueprint. 00:42:58.822 --> 00:42:59.932 There's already a blueprint. 00:42:59.932 --> 00:43:02.182 For us today, there is no blueprint. 00:43:02.512 --> 00:43:09.502 And I think that what is really shocking to me, but very obvious 00:43:09.562 --> 00:43:13.432 is almost no one is prepared. 00:43:14.602 --> 00:43:21.622 Almost no one has given this experience and this journey the thought, the 00:43:21.682 --> 00:43:27.802 honor that it deserves and once, as you say, once you get to the point where 00:43:28.012 --> 00:43:31.792 you are in crisis, it is too late. 00:43:32.872 --> 00:43:37.102 It is too late to make the kind of choices that you would want, and 00:43:37.312 --> 00:43:39.772 suddenly you are then just reacting. 00:43:40.012 --> 00:43:47.572 And so Appian unquestionably does crisis management, but our goal is to 00:43:47.572 --> 00:43:50.182 engage people before there's a crisis. 00:43:50.482 --> 00:43:54.862 And once you have a plan in place, you can execute that plan. 00:43:54.862 --> 00:43:58.222 And the resources that you need are much more manageable. 00:43:58.432 --> 00:44:06.277 And so even outside of people who may not want to engage an outside support system 00:44:06.277 --> 00:44:14.497 like Appian, I really encourage people to engage early in the conversation. 00:44:15.742 --> 00:44:21.782 Engage early in the planning and obviously that's why, when we spoke 00:44:21.992 --> 00:44:24.872 the legal piece of it is huge. 00:44:25.142 --> 00:44:28.292 The logistical side of it is huge. 00:44:28.642 --> 00:44:35.482 And so that's what I would just say to the listener, start planning today. 00:44:36.082 --> 00:44:39.772 If you need support, reach out, ask for it. 00:44:39.832 --> 00:44:42.832 You have so many resources, and it's one of the beautiful things about 00:44:42.832 --> 00:44:46.552 this show is that you are bringing these resources together for people. 00:44:46.842 --> 00:44:52.662 And there are resources out there for, really almost anyone with, 00:44:53.002 --> 00:44:55.622 very differing levels of resource. 00:44:55.772 --> 00:44:56.462 Candace Dellacona: I think you're right. 00:44:56.462 --> 00:45:00.362 I think I'm gonna echo what you said is that the time to have the conversations 00:45:00.362 --> 00:45:07.322 now we have to honor the process of aging with intention and thought, and there's 00:45:07.322 --> 00:45:11.642 no better way to show someone that you love them than starting this dialogue. 00:45:11.942 --> 00:45:18.932 I also wanna thank you because you have seen this problem and you've 00:45:18.932 --> 00:45:25.532 sought your own creativity and really tapped into trying to do a good 00:45:25.532 --> 00:45:31.172 thing, a mitzvah, if you will, by answering a problem that we all have. 00:45:31.172 --> 00:45:38.672 So in the creation of Appian, hopefully inspiring other founders to identify and 00:45:38.672 --> 00:45:43.262 hope they solve for those problems to make it easier for us in the sandwich 00:45:43.262 --> 00:45:48.822 generation to provide the care for our loved ones so that they can age well and 00:45:48.822 --> 00:45:53.512 they can, live out their beautiful life and end their beautiful life with dignity. 00:45:53.512 --> 00:45:56.932 Because I think that's all we hope to do for our loved ones. 00:45:56.932 --> 00:46:01.682 So thank you so much for being here and, sharing your story with us and again, 00:46:01.682 --> 00:46:06.557 sharing your passion and your creativity that really is truly answering the call. 00:46:08.774 --> 00:46:12.944 Ben Kruger: I appreciate being on the show so much, and you're absolutely right. 00:46:12.944 --> 00:46:22.369 The needs are vast, but there are lots of really passionate, smart people out there 00:46:22.369 --> 00:46:27.659 trying to solve these problems and I thank you for bringing a lot of this together, 00:46:28.064 --> 00:46:28.514 Candace Dellacona: Yeah, my pleasure. 00:46:28.529 --> 00:46:29.249 Ben Kruger: Thanks for having me. 00:46:29.394 --> 00:46:30.239 Candace Dellacona: You're welcome. 00:46:30.569 --> 00:46:31.049 Thanks, Ben.