Rachel Casey (00:00:06): Hello and welcome to Sober Banter. Rachel Casey (00:00:08): My name is Rachel and we have a guest today. Rachel Casey (00:00:11): His name is David M and we are getting very lucky. Rachel Casey (00:00:15): We have another gentleman who is sharing his experience that has 40 years, almost 41 sober. Rachel Casey (00:00:22): Welcome, David. Rachel Casey (00:00:24): What's your sobriety date? David McMenimen (00:00:26): June 30th, 1984. Rachel Casey (00:00:27): If you want to share a little bit of your story. David McMenimen (00:00:29): I came to sobriety. David McMenimen (00:00:30): I had had my third DUI and the last night I drank, David McMenimen (00:00:34): I drank myself into a blackout, David McMenimen (00:00:35): you know, David McMenimen (00:00:36): a bad car accident. David McMenimen (00:00:37): Total two automobiles, mine and somebody else's. David McMenimen (00:00:40): I don't remember much of what happened that night. David McMenimen (00:00:42): I was so drunk. David McMenimen (00:00:43): Woke up in ICU in the hospital the next morning. David McMenimen (00:00:46): Things plugged into my chest, and I didn't know how I got there. David McMenimen (00:00:50): And I woke up to a doctor and a cop standing over my hospital bed. David McMenimen (00:00:54): The cop was a guy that I didn't know really at all, David McMenimen (00:00:57): only from playing against him in a basketball league. David McMenimen (00:00:59): And I knew who he was, but he was in the station that night when I was brought into the station. David McMenimen (00:01:04): I don't remember that at all. David McMenimen (00:01:06): So he came to the hospital the next morning to see how he was doing, David McMenimen (00:01:10): which was very nice of him. David McMenimen (00:01:11): I haven't seen him since. David McMenimen (00:01:12): And the doctor was just checking on me. David McMenimen (00:01:15): Later on that morning, my father came to see me in the hospital. David McMenimen (00:01:19): And he pointed to all this stuff that was plugged into me. David McMenimen (00:01:21): I had a broken collarbone. David McMenimen (00:01:22): I had some other chest injuries. David McMenimen (00:01:25): And my drinking had driven him nuts for the entire time I drank. David McMenimen (00:01:30): And he just pointed to this stuff that was plugged into me. David McMenimen (00:01:32): And he said, does this tell you something? David McMenimen (00:01:35): about yourself. David McMenimen (00:01:36): And I said, yeah, I need help. David McMenimen (00:01:37): And that's the first time I can remember telling him or anyone else that they needed help. David McMenimen (00:01:41): Help for me up to that point was like, make this jackpot go away. David McMenimen (00:01:46): Loaned me $100, loaned me $1,000. David McMenimen (00:01:48): All outside stuff, not the kind of help I needed. David McMenimen (00:01:52): Laying in that hospital bed, I knew something had to change. David McMenimen (00:01:55): I didn't know what. David McMenimen (00:01:56): I didn't even know it was going to involve drinking. David McMenimen (00:01:58): But I knew drinking had put me in this position I was in. David McMenimen (00:02:02): And I was in the hospital for five days. David McMenimen (00:02:04): I got out, and I went to see my lawyer to find out what was going to happen in court. David McMenimen (00:02:08): And he had defended me before, but we weren't friends. David McMenimen (00:02:12): I didn't feel like he knew me well. David McMenimen (00:02:14): It was strictly a lawyer-client relationship. David McMenimen (00:02:17): And when I walked into his office, I did what I always did. David McMenimen (00:02:20): I started to lie and make up excuses about what happened that night. David McMenimen (00:02:23): And he cut me off right away. David McMenimen (00:02:25): And he said, you have to stop drinking. David McMenimen (00:02:28): And I said, do you have any suggestions? David McMenimen (00:02:29): He said, try AA. David McMenimen (00:02:31): Third D, why? David McMenimen (00:02:32): There was a possibility I could have gone away, gone to prison. David McMenimen (00:02:35): Because by then they were sending people, repeat offenders away. David McMenimen (00:02:38): I knew that was a possibility. David McMenimen (00:02:40): But he said, I can keep you out of jail, but you have to stop drinking. David McMenimen (00:02:44): You're going to lose your license for at least a couple of years. David McMenimen (00:02:47): So he made arrangements for me to start going to meetings, David McMenimen (00:02:50): AA meetings with a friend of his, David McMenimen (00:02:51): with Sobalik. David McMenimen (00:02:53): 10 years, complete stranger. David McMenimen (00:02:55): This guy brought me to meetings pretty much every night, David McMenimen (00:02:58): different meetings, David McMenimen (00:02:59): meetings he was used to going to. David McMenimen (00:03:00): And even from the first meeting, David McMenimen (00:03:02): I could identify with some of the things I heard, David McMenimen (00:03:04): the drinking the people did, David McMenimen (00:03:06): the war stories, David McMenimen (00:03:07): the trouble they got themselves into. David McMenimen (00:03:09): But I wasn't ready to call myself an alcoholic. David McMenimen (00:03:11): This went on for like a good month or so. David McMenimen (00:03:13): And as we were going to meetings every night, AA, going to AA meetings felt like a second job. David McMenimen (00:03:18): I had a job that I held down despite my drinking. David McMenimen (00:03:21): But I'd go to work. David McMenimen (00:03:23): I used to run. David McMenimen (00:03:23): I'd go out for a run, David McMenimen (00:03:24): and then it was time to go to an AA meeting, David McMenimen (00:03:27): and I'd meet this guy at the meeting. David McMenimen (00:03:29): I also noticed that I was feeling a lot better. David McMenimen (00:03:33): I wasn't passing out. David McMenimen (00:03:34): I wasn't blacking out. David McMenimen (00:03:35): I was sleeping better. David McMenimen (00:03:36): I was remembering going to bed at night. David McMenimen (00:03:39): I was saying to myself, I was waiting to go to a meeting one night. David McMenimen (00:03:41): There might be something that is not drinking in sobriety. David McMenimen (00:03:44): That's what I attributed it to, because it had been over a month since I had had a drink. David McMenimen (00:03:49): And I went to a meeting and the guy said, David McMenimen (00:03:52): if you can no longer drink in safety, David McMenimen (00:03:54): you're an alcoholic. David McMenimen (00:03:55): And I don't doubt that somebody had said that at a meeting before. David McMenimen (00:03:58): This night, my ears were wide open and I heard it clear as a bell. David McMenimen (00:04:02): I thought about that. David McMenimen (00:04:03): It had been a long time since I'm able to take a drink in safety. David McMenimen (00:04:07): I was never a daily drinker. David McMenimen (00:04:09): I never get into a jackpot every night I drank. David McMenimen (00:04:12): Sometimes I went out and drank and got home without incident. David McMenimen (00:04:16): But I had had a lot of jackpots along the way during my 20 years of drinking. David McMenimen (00:04:22): And then people said, keep coming here and you'll hear your story, which I didn't believe. David McMenimen (00:04:27): Then I heard my story shortly thereafter. David McMenimen (00:04:30): And that's when I kind of encountered myself and I said to myself, David McMenimen (00:04:34): these people aren't bullshitting me. David McMenimen (00:04:35): You know, it's like they're reading my mail. David McMenimen (00:04:37): People said, pray to have the obsession to drink be lifted. David McMenimen (00:04:42): And I never prayed, but after about two months, the obsession was lifted. David McMenimen (00:04:47): I wasn't thinking about drinking all the time. David McMenimen (00:04:50): I attribute that to AA 12 step and the people in it. David McMenimen (00:04:54): And I started to identify as an alcoholic and I've been sober ever since. David McMenimen (00:04:58): The first two, two and a half years, all I did was not drink and go to meetings. David McMenimen (00:05:05): every day, twice a day on weekends. Rachel Casey (00:05:07): That was about my story too. David McMenimen (00:05:09): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:05:09): I lived there. David McMenimen (00:05:10): I had made my mind up. David McMenimen (00:05:11): I was never going to speak at a meeting. David McMenimen (00:05:13): I said to myself, David McMenimen (00:05:14): I didn't tell anyone else this, David McMenimen (00:05:15): but I won't drink and I'll come here every day, David McMenimen (00:05:18): but I'm not going to speak. David McMenimen (00:05:19): I'm not going to be like all these other people who are pouring their hearts out David McMenimen (00:05:23): and talking about their tortured souls. David McMenimen (00:05:25): And then I'd sit in meetings and, David McMenimen (00:05:27): you know, David McMenimen (00:05:27): 12-step meetings, David McMenimen (00:05:28): well, David McMenimen (00:05:29): around here anyway, David McMenimen (00:05:29): they have them on a banner on the wall. David McMenimen (00:05:32): You can't miss them. David McMenimen (00:05:33): And I'd read them and David McMenimen (00:05:35): Some of those things are up there searching and fearless moral inventories. David McMenimen (00:05:38): And when I was wrong, David McMenimen (00:05:39): promptly admit it and prayer and meditation and, David McMenimen (00:05:43): uh, David McMenimen (00:05:44): you know, David McMenimen (00:05:44): being powerless. David McMenimen (00:05:46): Those were part of my repertoire when I was drinking. David McMenimen (00:05:49): I hadn't gone to like a, an actual 12 and 12 step meeting. David McMenimen (00:05:54): There's a guy I'd become friendly with and he had a men's step meeting at his house David McMenimen (00:05:58): with about a dozen guys. David McMenimen (00:05:59): And he used to talk about how much it helped him and helped other guys. David McMenimen (00:06:03): And, uh, David McMenimen (00:06:04): He blindsided me one night at a meeting, and he said, I'm starting the meeting up again. David McMenimen (00:06:08): I have one seat open, which might have been bullshit. David McMenimen (00:06:11): He might have had 10 seats open. David McMenimen (00:06:12): But he said, do you want to join in? David McMenimen (00:06:14): It was like when somebody offered me a drink, I couldn't refuse. David McMenimen (00:06:17): So I said, okay, I'll go. David McMenimen (00:06:19): So I went, and it was 12 guys sitting around this kitchen table. Rachel Casey (00:06:25): Not 12 angry men, though, right? David McMenimen (00:06:27): Well, some of them were right, dude. David McMenimen (00:06:30): They had all, almost all of them had taken a fourth and fifth step. David McMenimen (00:06:34): I hadn't. David McMenimen (00:06:34): So I felt like a fish out of water. David McMenimen (00:06:36): But it made me take a look at myself and realize there was more wrong with me than David McMenimen (00:06:41): just an alcohol problem. David McMenimen (00:06:43): They had character defects or shortcomings, whatever you want to call them. David McMenimen (00:06:48): that I needed to address. David McMenimen (00:06:49): There was a guy at that meeting, David McMenimen (00:06:51): not the guy who hosted the meeting, David McMenimen (00:06:53): but there was another guy every week. David McMenimen (00:06:54): He used to say, you've got to take a fourth and fifth step. David McMenimen (00:06:57): You've got to take a fourth and fifth step. David McMenimen (00:06:59): And it was kind of intimidating. David McMenimen (00:07:02): I didn't like it. David McMenimen (00:07:02): But finally, after one meeting, I sucked my guts up. David McMenimen (00:07:06): I went up to him and I said, I've never taken a fourth and fifth step. David McMenimen (00:07:10): How do I get started? David McMenimen (00:07:11): I thought for sure he'd jump down my throat and say, what are you kidding me? David McMenimen (00:07:15): You've been here for two years. David McMenimen (00:07:16): You haven't taken a fourth and fifth step. David McMenimen (00:07:18): But he said, go to the 12 and 12 book. David McMenimen (00:07:22): And he told me the page. David McMenimen (00:07:23): And he said, answer the questions. David McMenimen (00:07:25): Get something down in the writing. David McMenimen (00:07:27): Don't beat yourself up over it. David McMenimen (00:07:29): that's a way to get started on a fourth and fifth. David McMenimen (00:07:32): So I said, okay. David McMenimen (00:07:33): So then I had to ask him who I should take it with. David McMenimen (00:07:36): And I was also scared to death that he was going to say him, David McMenimen (00:07:39): which I didn't want to do at all, David McMenimen (00:07:41): but he pointed me in the direction of somebody else. David McMenimen (00:07:44): And he said, it'll be the feedback you get. David McMenimen (00:07:46): And it was true. David McMenimen (00:07:47): You know, David McMenimen (00:07:47): I sat in the guy's car for three hours and I had stuff written down and, David McMenimen (00:07:52): uh, David McMenimen (00:07:53): I talked and this guy, David McMenimen (00:07:55): he told me about his experience. David McMenimen (00:07:56): And, um, David McMenimen (00:07:58): I wound up going to that meeting for like three and a half years, David McMenimen (00:08:01): like a fourth and fifth step a few times because of it. David McMenimen (00:08:04): And AA's just, the steps gave me a way of life. David McMenimen (00:08:08): There were little things I learned in there about be a friend amongst friends. David McMenimen (00:08:14): Be a worker amongst workers. David McMenimen (00:08:16): Do the work that's in front of you. David McMenimen (00:08:18): Treat people the way you'd like to be treated. David McMenimen (00:08:20): And there's one sentence in there somewhere. David McMenimen (00:08:22): It says, alcoholics are people that have never had a true relationship with another human being. David McMenimen (00:08:29): And even when I still read that today, David McMenimen (00:08:31): it's almost like it slaps me across the face because I'm an introvert by nature. David McMenimen (00:08:37): I never had a true relationship with another human being. David McMenimen (00:08:39): That one really jumped that at me. David McMenimen (00:08:42): Back it up to the beginning. David McMenimen (00:08:43): I grew up, I'm a native Bostonian. David McMenimen (00:08:46): I grew up right outside Boston, oldest of four children. David McMenimen (00:08:50): My parents were an alcoholics. Rachel Casey (00:08:52): I was going to ask that earlier, Rachel Casey (00:08:54): so I'm glad you just... David McMenimen (00:08:56): I didn't see a lot of drinking around my house. David McMenimen (00:08:59): I'm the oldest, and I was the trailblazer in my family as far as drinking and alcohol. David McMenimen (00:09:04): I've got a brother that suffers from this disease. David McMenimen (00:09:07): He's younger than I am. David McMenimen (00:09:08): He's out in the wilderness. David McMenimen (00:09:10): He tried getting sober a number of years ago, and he went back out, and he's still out there. David McMenimen (00:09:15): I don't have any regrets about my upbringing. David McMenimen (00:09:18): It wasn't perfect by any means, but... David McMenimen (00:09:20): It was okay. David McMenimen (00:09:21): I mean, parents, they were hardworking people. David McMenimen (00:09:24): They did the best they could. David McMenimen (00:09:25): I was the first in my family to graduate from college. David McMenimen (00:09:28): I mean, I picked up my first drink when I was 16, and I was a junior in high school. David McMenimen (00:09:34): Guys I went to high school with drank before I did, David McMenimen (00:09:37): and they used to tell me how good it made them feel. David McMenimen (00:09:40): I played basketball in high school. David McMenimen (00:09:41): I remember asking this guy on the basketball team, Tony, I said, he had said he had drank. David McMenimen (00:09:46): I said, what's it like when you drink? David McMenimen (00:09:47): And he said, um, David McMenimen (00:09:49): They went over to somebody's house. David McMenimen (00:09:50): Their parents went away for the weekend. David McMenimen (00:09:52): He said, we watched the Celtics on Lakers and Lakers from the West Coast. David McMenimen (00:09:57): And we got some pizza and we got some beer and the game ended and we shut the TV David McMenimen (00:10:02): off and we slept like babies. David McMenimen (00:10:04): that sounded great to me. David McMenimen (00:10:06): Probably for the first two years of my, that I drank, that's the way it was. David McMenimen (00:10:10): I get feeling good. David McMenimen (00:10:12): There were no jackpots. David McMenimen (00:10:13): A couple of times my parents caught me drinking, but I got beyond that. David McMenimen (00:10:17): But I went away to college when I was 18. David McMenimen (00:10:20): I went to college in New Hampshire and my family now is living in New Jersey. David McMenimen (00:10:26): And, um, David McMenimen (00:10:28): My drinking took right off when I went to college. David McMenimen (00:10:31): I went from drinking a six-pack once in a while to drinking all weekend long until David McMenimen (00:10:38): five years later when I got out of college. David McMenimen (00:10:40): I was just drinking all the time. David McMenimen (00:10:43): Now I could drink in bar rooms, which I really liked. David McMenimen (00:10:46): I would say from the time I was 18 until I was 36 when I finally got sober. David McMenimen (00:10:51): Alcohol was always a good idea, and nothing got in the way of me picking up a drink, you know. David McMenimen (00:10:58): I never said no when somebody said, let's go drinking. David McMenimen (00:11:01): I'd say yes, and I'd be on a dead run to the next bar where I was drinking. Rachel Casey (00:11:06): I think you touched on it earlier, too. Rachel Casey (00:11:07): It's the connection of I could always make a friend by buying a shot or having a Rachel Casey (00:11:13): beer or going to the bar. Rachel Casey (00:11:15): It didn't seem like a lot of work, if you will. Rachel Casey (00:11:17): It didn't require planning or having a commonality other than the drink. Rachel Casey (00:11:23): And then when the drink took effect, I took less effect. Rachel Casey (00:11:29): And it was... Rachel Casey (00:11:31): It's like an isolator's perfect storm because you start isolating less. Rachel Casey (00:11:38): And the thing you're doing is poison. Rachel Casey (00:11:41): It's death for me. Rachel Casey (00:11:42): But it was the connection point of most of my friendships. David McMenimen (00:11:46): It wasn't until I got sober I heard a guy say that. David McMenimen (00:11:48): When a drunk gets in trouble, David McMenimen (00:11:51): his or her drinking buddies walk out of their life and their real friends walk into David McMenimen (00:11:56): their life. David McMenimen (00:11:57): And that's what happened to me. David McMenimen (00:11:58): I mean, like I said, I barely knew my lawyer. David McMenimen (00:12:00): Then I didn't know this guy who started taking me to meetings. David McMenimen (00:12:04): And then after two months, I started going to meetings on my own. David McMenimen (00:12:08): And I went into these rooms that were filled with strangers. David McMenimen (00:12:12): I didn't know anyone. David McMenimen (00:12:14): And he instilled something. David McMenimen (00:12:15): I mean, this guy that took me to meetings. David McMenimen (00:12:17): We used to go to the same meetings all the time. David McMenimen (00:12:20): One thing that impressed me was when we'd go to the meetings, he'd introduce me as being new. David McMenimen (00:12:27): I'm checking things out, you know. David McMenimen (00:12:30): I hated that. David McMenimen (00:12:31): I wanted to be invisible. David McMenimen (00:12:33): I didn't want anyone to know I was there. David McMenimen (00:12:35): But when we went back to that meeting for the second time, David McMenimen (00:12:38): definitely by the third time, David McMenimen (00:12:40): I'd go in and people would say, David McMenimen (00:12:41): hey, David McMenimen (00:12:41): Dave, David McMenimen (00:12:41): how you doing? David McMenimen (00:12:43): I'm going, Jesus, these people remember who I am, and they're asking me how I'm doing. David McMenimen (00:12:47): So when I started to go to meetings on my own, David McMenimen (00:12:51): I went to the same schedule of meetings, David McMenimen (00:12:54): but in the same location, David McMenimen (00:12:55): different locations, David McMenimen (00:12:56): but the same meetings and the same thing happened. David McMenimen (00:13:00): People would ask me how I was doing, and that impressed me. David McMenimen (00:13:03): I mean, I didn't know these people. David McMenimen (00:13:04): They really didn't know me, but I became a familiar face. David McMenimen (00:13:09): And even today, when I go to live meetings, I like to see familiar faces. David McMenimen (00:13:14): I like to see the same people that show up all the time. David McMenimen (00:13:17): For the most part, it tells me they're serious about staying sober like I am. Rachel Casey (00:13:20): I thought about today in something that's, it used to be talked about in live meetings. Rachel Casey (00:13:26): I don't know about online, or maybe it's more so online online. Rachel Casey (00:13:30): people do it but for me things are running late it feels like I'm an alcoholic so Rachel Casey (00:13:35): the world is ending and I'm like why is it like or and guess what it's okay you can Rachel Casey (00:13:42): go to a meeting if it's 15 minutes late and people are just happy to see your face Rachel Casey (00:13:46): and that you're there they're not thinking oh why were they late why were they not Rachel Casey (00:13:50): here on time they're just like it's so nice to see a Rachel Casey (00:13:54): You can 30 minutes of a meeting, Rachel Casey (00:13:56): 15 minutes of a meeting are better than zero minutes of a meeting. Rachel Casey (00:14:00): And I remember I struggled with that in the beginning. Rachel Casey (00:14:02): If I were late, I would just skip. Rachel Casey (00:14:04): And it's just because it was like an ego thing in the beginning, Rachel Casey (00:14:07): I think of, Rachel Casey (00:14:08): oh, Rachel Casey (00:14:08): everyone's going to notice I'm late. Rachel Casey (00:14:10): I want to be invisible. Rachel Casey (00:14:11): And guess what? Rachel Casey (00:14:13): I think it's if you haven't heard yet and you're listening, you're new. Rachel Casey (00:14:17): Go to the 50. Rachel Casey (00:14:18): It doesn't go to five minutes, honestly. Rachel Casey (00:14:20): Like it is, I think. Rachel Casey (00:14:22): Or what do you think? Rachel Casey (00:14:24): And don't you think it's nicer to see someone's face, Rachel Casey (00:14:26): even if it's the last 10 minutes of the meeting? Rachel Casey (00:14:27): Because it's like, hey, this person is just as serious as I am. Rachel Casey (00:14:31): And you're not thinking, oh, they missed the first 50 minutes. Rachel Casey (00:14:33): You're like, just glad to see you're still here. Rachel Casey (00:14:36): Still, so we're still trying. David McMenimen (00:14:38): Yeah, David McMenimen (00:14:39): but even when I go back to live meetings, David McMenimen (00:14:41): I go to mostly Zoom meetings now, David McMenimen (00:14:43): but when I go to live meetings, David McMenimen (00:14:45): it's good to see people that I used to see before. David McMenimen (00:14:49): And who knows why people come in late. David McMenimen (00:14:51): Maybe they have a good reason for it. David McMenimen (00:14:53): I don't know. David McMenimen (00:14:54): I don't take people's inventories about stuff like that. David McMenimen (00:14:57): I learned not to anyway. David McMenimen (00:14:58): It'd be in the beginning. David McMenimen (00:14:59): I did. David McMenimen (00:14:59): I used to say, you can't, I show up on time. David McMenimen (00:15:02): Why can't you, you know, I used to say that. Rachel Casey (00:15:04): And that's what I'm saying. Rachel Casey (00:15:05): Like, but it's not how it's looked at it. Rachel Casey (00:15:09): And that was probably more in my head. Rachel Casey (00:15:11): And that's why like doing a fourth step is like what taught me some of those, Rachel Casey (00:15:18): that ego, Rachel Casey (00:15:19): those emotions, Rachel Casey (00:15:21): Why do I think I'm so important? Rachel Casey (00:15:24): And again, sometimes it's just a nice check-in. Rachel Casey (00:15:27): I like just even hearing the beginning of a meeting. Rachel Casey (00:15:31): If I have to leave early, it's like a mental check-in, if you will. Rachel Casey (00:15:37): I mean, an hour is not very long, but in a busy day... Rachel Casey (00:15:41): It's still better to show up and get something. Rachel Casey (00:15:45): And rather than I think what you had said, like isolating. Rachel Casey (00:15:49): And that's common for, I think, a lot of alcoholics, especially in the beginning. Rachel Casey (00:15:54): The I don't want to be in the I want to be in the background, Rachel Casey (00:15:57): even though internally we really are like screaming for connection. Rachel Casey (00:16:02): But we're also in our head, like, please don't talk to me. Rachel Casey (00:16:05): Don't say I'm new. Rachel Casey (00:16:06): Don't introduce me. Rachel Casey (00:16:07): Like, I just want to be in and out. Rachel Casey (00:16:08): And there's a reason it's it helps. Rachel Casey (00:16:12): It just doesn't feel like it at first. Rachel Casey (00:16:14): It feels a little uncomfortable. David McMenimen (00:16:15): Yeah. David McMenimen (00:16:16): When I in the beginning, David McMenimen (00:16:17): when I went to meetings, David McMenimen (00:16:18): I thought everyone in the room was staring at me. David McMenimen (00:16:20): And it turns out they weren't, you know. David McMenimen (00:16:23): They could care less. David McMenimen (00:16:24): I'm going to get over that stuff along the way. David McMenimen (00:16:26): If I could just back up a bit about my 20 years of drinking, it wasn't all jackpots. David McMenimen (00:16:32): It wasn't all DUIs, David McMenimen (00:16:34): although I did that probably totaled about a half a dozen automobiles along the David McMenimen (00:16:38): way. David McMenimen (00:16:38): But there were nights, David McMenimen (00:16:39): like I said, David McMenimen (00:16:39): I could go out and have a few drinks, David McMenimen (00:16:41): get feeling good, David McMenimen (00:16:43): and go home without incident. David McMenimen (00:16:45): And then there were nights when I wanted to do that and, David McMenimen (00:16:48): you know, David McMenimen (00:16:49): I'd drink myself into a blackout or David McMenimen (00:16:52): you know, a jackpot and, um, David McMenimen (00:16:55): It wasn't until after I got sober I realized that I was just rolling the dice when David McMenimen (00:17:00): I picked up a drink. David McMenimen (00:17:02): I didn't know where it was going to take me. David McMenimen (00:17:03): That's still true today. David McMenimen (00:17:05): But there were, I can think of one red flag along the way. David McMenimen (00:17:08): In my first DUI, there was no drumbeat about drunk driving at that time. David McMenimen (00:17:15): This was like 1975. David McMenimen (00:17:16): They had to go to a, they called it a community alcohol safety program. David McMenimen (00:17:21): They had to take classes. David McMenimen (00:17:23): couple of nights a week and they made you look at your drinking and at that time Rachel Casey (00:17:26): they didn't recommend AA though right like now today if you get a DUI you're Rachel Casey (00:17:30): recommended but in 75 it wasn't recommended AA yet right David McMenimen (00:17:35): They suggested it, but they didn't make you go to any meetings. David McMenimen (00:17:40): But there were two things I remember. David McMenimen (00:17:42): One was it was a woman that ran the classes, David McMenimen (00:17:45): and she used to hand out a sheet of paper each week, David McMenimen (00:17:48): and you had to record your drinks. David McMenimen (00:17:51): And this was like just a regular 8 by 11 sheet of paper or nothing. David McMenimen (00:17:57): I knew guys I drank with who had had DUIs, and I showed that to them. David McMenimen (00:18:01): And they said, David McMenimen (00:18:02): start lying your ass off, David McMenimen (00:18:03): because the way you drink, David McMenimen (00:18:05): you'll be going to that meeting for the rest of your life. David McMenimen (00:18:08): And I could probably could have filled up about 20 pages with what I drank. David McMenimen (00:18:12): So I'd lie. David McMenimen (00:18:14): Oh, I only had two drinks this night. David McMenimen (00:18:16): I usually had two drinks in the first 15 minutes. David McMenimen (00:18:20): But the other thing that really, David McMenimen (00:18:22): when I think back at it, David McMenimen (00:18:23): she said, David McMenimen (00:18:24): if you're a blackout drinker, David McMenimen (00:18:25): you have a drinking problem. David McMenimen (00:18:27): And by then I had been blacking out, not every time I drank, like I said, but David McMenimen (00:18:31): I've been blacking out. David McMenimen (00:18:33): I knew I was a blackout drinker, but this was just her theory and didn't apply to me. David McMenimen (00:18:39): That didn't alter my drinking at all. David McMenimen (00:18:41): Eventually, I went back to drinking the way I had before, and then David McMenimen (00:18:47): My second DUI was like 1980 or something like that. David McMenimen (00:18:51): This time, I lost my license for a year. David McMenimen (00:18:54): I drove with a huddle license for a year. David McMenimen (00:18:56): Drove drunk. Rachel Casey (00:18:58): I love the honesty. Rachel Casey (00:18:59): You're like, they took it away, but the honesty is you didn't suffer the repercussion. Rachel Casey (00:19:04): You just, the risk of driving without a license. David McMenimen (00:19:06): Yeah, but the second DUI didn't get my attention as far as my drinking was concerned. David McMenimen (00:19:10): I just continued to drink the way I had. David McMenimen (00:19:13): And finally, in 84, that last night I drank. David McMenimen (00:19:17): that got my attention so those are a couple of red flags along the way that i David McMenimen (00:19:22): choose to ignore i chose to ignore at that time and uh yeah i mean every night and David McMenimen (00:19:26): like i said every night wasn't a blackout or passing out or making an ass out of David McMenimen (00:19:30): myself or a jackpot there was some nights you know i had fun drinking all i had fun David McMenimen (00:19:36): is that cliche it's fun fun with trouble and then at the end just trouble you know Rachel Casey (00:19:42): I would say, Rachel Casey (00:19:43): at least for me, Rachel Casey (00:19:44): I know it's not like I poured a drink and was like my goal was to black out. Rachel Casey (00:19:52): It was just the amount of alcohol that I would progressively start drinking and Rachel Casey (00:19:56): drinking and I would end up blacking out. Rachel Casey (00:19:58): But it's not that I intended to necessarily. Rachel Casey (00:20:02): Sometimes if I were like angry or celebrating some big accomplishment or, Rachel Casey (00:20:07): you know, Rachel Casey (00:20:08): something tragic that happened. Rachel Casey (00:20:09): But I don't know that. Rachel Casey (00:20:12): It kind of gets away from you, you know, like if you were to tally your drinks. Rachel Casey (00:20:17): I mean, Rachel Casey (00:20:17): I was just thinking I'm like when I was drinking, Rachel Casey (00:20:19): I'd be like, Rachel Casey (00:20:20): go ahead and put five because I'm about to do five shots of Jameson to start off. Rachel Casey (00:20:23): So just go ahead. Rachel Casey (00:20:24): Don't bother picking up the pencil again and again. Rachel Casey (00:20:27): And also what counts as one, because my shot glasses were a rocks glass that were like. Rachel Casey (00:20:35): I didn't even know the one two fingers thing because until I got sober and I heard Rachel Casey (00:20:40): it on Mad Men, Rachel Casey (00:20:41): I think. Rachel Casey (00:20:41): And I was like, oh, that's what that means. Rachel Casey (00:20:43): I'm like, I went way above that. Rachel Casey (00:20:44): I'm like, keep going. Rachel Casey (00:20:45): Just don't don't get tired because I'll drink it faster than you can pour it. Rachel Casey (00:20:50): And I look at back now, I don't know how I lived, but I can't even imagine. Rachel Casey (00:20:57): I seriously can't even imagine drinking. Rachel Casey (00:20:59): I don't know. Rachel Casey (00:21:00): But again, it's the part of alcohol that once I take a sip, Rachel Casey (00:21:09): the alcohol's in control. Rachel Casey (00:21:11): It's, it has nothing to do with me anymore. Rachel Casey (00:21:13): Again, Rachel Casey (00:21:14): it can, Rachel Casey (00:21:15): if I try to say, Rachel Casey (00:21:17): I'm going to have just one drink tonight and I'm going to be calm after that first Rachel Casey (00:21:21): drink and sin, Rachel Casey (00:21:22): I'm like, Rachel Casey (00:21:23): what is two going to hurt? Rachel Casey (00:21:24): What's three going to hurt? Rachel Casey (00:21:25): Well, I'm already here. Rachel Casey (00:21:26): Let's just, there's no stop. David McMenimen (00:21:28): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:21:30): And I could sometimes contain myself. Rachel Casey (00:21:35): Like you said, not every night was a blackout. Rachel Casey (00:21:36): Like if I were in sports was a big thing in my life. Rachel Casey (00:21:39): I love sports and sports and drinking and sports bars just all with hand in hand. David McMenimen (00:21:45): Me too. Rachel Casey (00:21:46): And I'm so grateful. Rachel Casey (00:21:48): Like today, Dallas Stars plays tonight. Rachel Casey (00:21:50): And I love, love, love sports sober. Rachel Casey (00:21:55): It, you get to remember it. Rachel Casey (00:21:57): You get to feel the passion and, Rachel Casey (00:22:00): I was so numb because I was so focused and I would, Rachel Casey (00:22:04): I don't know if you did like the drinking games, Rachel Casey (00:22:06): you know, Rachel Casey (00:22:06): oh, Rachel Casey (00:22:06): let's take a shot when they like score a goal or a big play happens. Rachel Casey (00:22:11): Like it was touchdown for Cowboys, just these big plays and it's shots, shots. Rachel Casey (00:22:17): And by the end of the game, I was like passed out. Rachel Casey (00:22:19): And now I can't imagine wanting to take away. Rachel Casey (00:22:23): I'm like, absolutely. Rachel Casey (00:22:24): I want to watch this game. Rachel Casey (00:22:25): I care about, I enjoy it so much more. David McMenimen (00:22:29): Today, I like watching games right where I'm sitting right now. David McMenimen (00:22:33): My TV's on the other side of the room. David McMenimen (00:22:35): I know I'll remember all the plays. David McMenimen (00:22:38): The line to the men's room is shorter. Rachel Casey (00:22:41): I don't want to even get up to get a soda because I don't want to miss like my Rachel Casey (00:22:44): husband will say, Rachel Casey (00:22:45): wait, Rachel Casey (00:22:45): we're going to wait till they do an ice change, Rachel Casey (00:22:47): you know, Rachel Casey (00:22:47): till get drink refills or just like non-alcoholic, Rachel Casey (00:22:51): just water eat because it's we care about the sport. Rachel Casey (00:22:54): But if I was drinking and when I was drinking, Rachel Casey (00:22:58): the drinks were always the most important and making sure everyone had a refill or Rachel Casey (00:23:01): shot ready or we were playing some sort of a commonality to it's like the sport was Rachel Casey (00:23:07): second. Rachel Casey (00:23:07): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:23:09): uh, drinking was always first. David McMenimen (00:23:11): The sport was like a vehicle to get me to a bar or something to drink a lot of the time. David McMenimen (00:23:16): And I had, David McMenimen (00:23:17): I had like, David McMenimen (00:23:18): I Celtic season tickets back when John Hevlichek, David McMenimen (00:23:21): Dave Cowens played and went to a lot of games. David McMenimen (00:23:24): And sometimes I remember the game. David McMenimen (00:23:26): Sometimes I wouldn't. David McMenimen (00:23:27): And, um, Rachel Casey (00:23:29): I'd always get up early to go get another drink because I didn't want to wait for Rachel Casey (00:23:33): the long line. Rachel Casey (00:23:34): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:23:36): And, or that was my excuse again. Rachel Casey (00:23:37): I don't know. Rachel Casey (00:23:38): I don't think I really cared about the line. Rachel Casey (00:23:40): I think my truth was I wanted another drink and I can find like, Rachel Casey (00:23:45): Oh, Rachel Casey (00:23:46): well there's leave early, Rachel Casey (00:23:48): skip the line, Rachel Casey (00:23:49): get ahead of the crowd. Rachel Casey (00:23:50): And the reality was I just wanted more alcohol. Rachel Casey (00:23:56): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:23:56): And I don't, I'm again, Rachel Casey (00:23:59): beyond every time sports come up i'm like i can't imagine wanting to go back to David McMenimen (00:24:06): that life i don't miss it at all i don't miss anything about my drinking life like David McMenimen (00:24:11): i said but i thought i would i thought i might initially but David McMenimen (00:24:16): I just like waking up sober every morning and clear-headed and not wondering what I David McMenimen (00:24:22): did last night or if I'd passed out or blacked out or stepped on somebody's toes or David McMenimen (00:24:27): insulted somebody. David McMenimen (00:24:28): And we were talking about recording drinks and... David McMenimen (00:24:32): When I was nine months sober, David McMenimen (00:24:33): I had to go to a, David McMenimen (00:24:35): because it was the third DUI, David McMenimen (00:24:36): I had to go to a state-ordered program. David McMenimen (00:24:39): It was out like in central Massachusetts, and it was a residential program. David McMenimen (00:24:43): You had to go there for two weeks, and there were about 200 people in there. David McMenimen (00:24:46): Everyone was a repeat offender like I was. David McMenimen (00:24:49): There were like 14 counselors, and I counted 11 of them were in AA. David McMenimen (00:24:55): It was all AA all day long. David McMenimen (00:24:57): We took classes, and everyone was assigned an individual counselor, and David McMenimen (00:25:02): I got assigned a woman who wasn't an AA, and she started asking me questions. David McMenimen (00:25:07): She didn't understand why I couldn't remember how much I drank in the course of a David McMenimen (00:25:12): night, David McMenimen (00:25:12): how many drinks I had. David McMenimen (00:25:14): Finally, I said, I'm an alcoholic. David McMenimen (00:25:16): I don't count drinks. David McMenimen (00:25:17): I just start drinking, and I don't stop. David McMenimen (00:25:20): Out of the 200 people that were there, David McMenimen (00:25:21): and it was mostly men but some women, David McMenimen (00:25:25): I bet 150 of them had no intention of getting sober from what I saw. David McMenimen (00:25:32): And I'm glad I was nine months sober when I went there and that I had had a David McMenimen (00:25:39): background in AA because I made the most of it. David McMenimen (00:25:42): I didn't like it. David McMenimen (00:25:43): You know, I had to take two weeks vacation. David McMenimen (00:25:45): I had to pay to go there. David McMenimen (00:25:47): But I got the most out of it. David McMenimen (00:25:49): And if I was drinking like some of those other people were, David McMenimen (00:25:52): it just would have gone in one ear and out the other ear. Rachel Casey (00:25:56): And honestly, that's another really good point in early sobriety too. Rachel Casey (00:26:02): Another recommendation I was given is not all meetings are equal and some are Rachel Casey (00:26:12): better than others, Rachel Casey (00:26:13): but it also might be me that it could be two identical meetings on two different Rachel Casey (00:26:20): days and I can take it either as Rachel Casey (00:26:25): I got nothing and the even identical meeting, identical topic. Rachel Casey (00:26:31): The other one, the other day it hits home. Rachel Casey (00:26:34): And sometimes it just takes like, Rachel Casey (00:26:36): I don't love the like through osmosis metaphor, Rachel Casey (00:26:39): you know, Rachel Casey (00:26:40): like if you just sit there, Rachel Casey (00:26:41): but I always do believe that if you continuously keep going to meetings and Rachel Casey (00:26:49): Eventually, if you're alcoholic like I am, something will hit you at the time it's supposed to. Rachel Casey (00:26:57): And you might have already heard it and been like, Rachel Casey (00:26:59): oh, Rachel Casey (00:26:59): that doesn't really relate to me because of the attitude or how you're hearing it Rachel Casey (00:27:03): that day. Rachel Casey (00:27:04): Eventually, you're like, oh, wait. Rachel Casey (00:27:06): And it clicks. Rachel Casey (00:27:07): And it's amazing when you do hear your story. Rachel Casey (00:27:11): And it's then the ripple effect happens of you start to see the relatability and Rachel Casey (00:27:18): even the stories you don't relate to. David McMenimen (00:27:20): But the trick to all that is you have to go to meetings to hear that. David McMenimen (00:27:25): You do. David McMenimen (00:27:26): I wasn't going to hear it at home, walking down the street at work. David McMenimen (00:27:31): Definitely wasn't going to hear it in the bar rooms. David McMenimen (00:27:33): I drank in, that's for sure. David McMenimen (00:27:35): But even that night when that guy said, David McMenimen (00:27:37): if you can no longer drink in safety, David McMenimen (00:27:39): you're an alcoholic. David McMenimen (00:27:40): Like I said, David McMenimen (00:27:41): I don't doubt for two seconds that that had been said at other meetings that I went David McMenimen (00:27:46): to. David McMenimen (00:27:46): But this one night, my ears were wide open. David McMenimen (00:27:50): I don't even know who the guy was. David McMenimen (00:27:52): I don't think I've seen him since, but it stuck with me. David McMenimen (00:27:55): I remember going to a meeting and it was a woman who was a lot younger than I was David McMenimen (00:28:00): saying that when she was drinking, David McMenimen (00:28:02): self-pity was like a warm bath. David McMenimen (00:28:05): And man, David McMenimen (00:28:05): could I identify with that because I love to feel sorry for myself and blame other David McMenimen (00:28:11): people. David McMenimen (00:28:12): That was another thing at that step meeting they impressed on us was take the word David McMenimen (00:28:16): blame out of your vocabulary. David McMenimen (00:28:18): Don't blame people for your drinking problem and the trouble you got yourself into. David McMenimen (00:28:22): And then when you were talking about going to different meetings and hearing David McMenimen (00:28:25): things, David McMenimen (00:28:26): there was a guy I used to talk to all the time. David McMenimen (00:28:28): I almost used him like a sponsor, but he said, I don't want to be your sponsor. David McMenimen (00:28:33): Call me as a friend, but... David McMenimen (00:28:35): He used to speak at a lot of meetings, David McMenimen (00:28:36): and I said to him, David McMenimen (00:28:38): I'm gun-shy about raising my hand at a meeting and speaking. David McMenimen (00:28:41): You know, you're not. David McMenimen (00:28:43): And he said to him, David McMenimen (00:28:44): when you go to a meeting, David McMenimen (00:28:45): you look around the room, David McMenimen (00:28:46): and you see people sitting in the room, David McMenimen (00:28:49): you just know are going to raise their hand. David McMenimen (00:28:52): and talk about what they want to talk about. David McMenimen (00:28:54): And I said, yeah, pretty much every meeting I go to, he said, get your hand up before they do. David McMenimen (00:29:00): He said, and even if they get the hand up before you do, talk about what you want to talk about. David McMenimen (00:29:05): Get the meeting going your way. David McMenimen (00:29:06): And that's something I try to practice. David McMenimen (00:29:09): I don't do it at every meeting. David McMenimen (00:29:11): And then when I do go to a meeting, David McMenimen (00:29:13): if I don't hear something earth shattering or hear a lot of wisdom, David McMenimen (00:29:17): I also have to look at David McMenimen (00:29:19): Did I raise my hand? David McMenimen (00:29:20): What part did I play in it? David McMenimen (00:29:22): I can raise my hand just like anyone else can and talk about what I want to talk about. David McMenimen (00:29:29): Another guy told me, David McMenimen (00:29:31): you can talk about whatever you want to talk about at a 12-step meeting, David McMenimen (00:29:35): but always bring it back to alcohol. David McMenimen (00:29:38): Always bring it back. David McMenimen (00:29:39): And then don't sing the blues. David McMenimen (00:29:41): He said, are you happy to be sober? David McMenimen (00:29:43): And I said, yeah, I'm thrilled. David McMenimen (00:29:44): He said, don't sing the blues. David McMenimen (00:29:47): And not everybody does that. Rachel Casey (00:29:49): And that's where the step meetings is something I found I enjoyed a lot more. Rachel Casey (00:29:54): It's all about where you're at in your sobriety. Rachel Casey (00:29:56): And I don't think one meeting is better than another necessarily. Rachel Casey (00:30:02): It's all about where I'm at. Rachel Casey (00:30:05): After I worked the 12 steps... Rachel Casey (00:30:07): My shares were very different because now it was more of my responsibility to carry Rachel Casey (00:30:13): the message that we do recover, Rachel Casey (00:30:16): wherein when I was working steps, Rachel Casey (00:30:18): when I shared, Rachel Casey (00:30:19): I probably shared more towards the struggle. Rachel Casey (00:30:22): But I always tried to stay in gratitude in my shares. Rachel Casey (00:30:25): Like I don't there was but I also in my sobriety, Rachel Casey (00:30:27): there was never a point where I was like, Rachel Casey (00:30:30): this sucks. Rachel Casey (00:30:31): it felt like you said, even in the beginning, just side effects alone. Rachel Casey (00:30:35): If you start feeling like you're not hungover, like to be less serious or not. Rachel Casey (00:30:42): And it's what part do I play? Rachel Casey (00:30:45): But I always try to, when I have shared at meetings, it's, I'm sharing my mess. Rachel Casey (00:30:51): Like that it's work for working steps. Rachel Casey (00:30:57): I struggled too. Rachel Casey (00:30:59): But my job is to, Rachel Casey (00:31:02): The 12th step in my share. Rachel Casey (00:31:05): And that's kind of what the topic is supposed to be built on. Rachel Casey (00:31:07): In discussions of each person's viewpoint. Rachel Casey (00:31:10): Because everyone's different. Rachel Casey (00:31:11): Like I didn't get a DUI. Rachel Casey (00:31:14): But I can 100% relate with your story. Rachel Casey (00:31:17): Because there are plenty of times I should have. Rachel Casey (00:31:20): Plenty. Rachel Casey (00:31:21): And thankfully, I was pretty good about giving up my keys. Rachel Casey (00:31:26): I didn't really fight people to drink and drive. Rachel Casey (00:31:29): I'd rather not drive. Rachel Casey (00:31:30): And maybe that's the benefit of being a woman. Rachel Casey (00:31:33): But I was just like, I want to be driven. Rachel Casey (00:31:35): But I relate with the times that I have. Rachel Casey (00:31:41): And I've seen like I could have easily been pulled over. Rachel Casey (00:31:48): I think that's another thing in sobriety is you learn how to identify versus isolate. Rachel Casey (00:31:54): You find the similarities. Rachel Casey (00:31:56): I'm no longer looking for the differences like I used to. David McMenimen (00:32:00): But no two stories are the same. David McMenimen (00:32:02): And I think it's just, it's what alcohol does to you, you know. David McMenimen (00:32:08): And if you come into a sobriety meeting, David McMenimen (00:32:10): it's a good chance alcohol hasn't served you well in some capacity. David McMenimen (00:32:15): It's probably alcohol's, David McMenimen (00:32:17): you probably thought you could handle alcohol, David McMenimen (00:32:19): but alcohol has handled you. David McMenimen (00:32:20): Going back to, you know, raising your hand and speaking at meetings, I follow Chris Herron. David McMenimen (00:32:25): I don't know if you know, he is the basketball player. David McMenimen (00:32:28): Played in the NBA. David McMenimen (00:32:29): He's devoted his life to sobriety. David McMenimen (00:32:32): But he said when he first got sober, he went to meetings and he wasn't speaking. David McMenimen (00:32:36): And a woman older than him came up to him and stood in front of him and said, David McMenimen (00:32:43): open your mouth to save your ass. David McMenimen (00:32:46): We can't help you if we don't know you. David McMenimen (00:32:48): And I think that's the truth. David McMenimen (00:32:50): You have to let somebody know what's going on with you, I think. David McMenimen (00:32:54): At least I did anyway. Rachel Casey (00:32:55): You also might have something important. Rachel Casey (00:32:57): Like I still am a firm believer that people with some of the least amount of Rachel Casey (00:33:02): sobriety think that they have nothing to contribute in a meeting. Rachel Casey (00:33:04): They're like, I don't know. Rachel Casey (00:33:05): That is the gold. Rachel Casey (00:33:07): That is where alcoholics like me, Rachel Casey (00:33:10): I can't speak for you, Rachel Casey (00:33:11): but I'm sure you would say the same that it's like it takes me back to remind Rachel Casey (00:33:16): myself how it used to be like because we get time and space from our last drink. Rachel Casey (00:33:23): And I am thankful I ingrained how miserable I was in a meeting when someone's not Rachel Casey (00:33:30): doing the carrying the message part because you're not working the steps. Rachel Casey (00:33:35): You're helping everyone else in the room by sharing because you're reminding us of Rachel Casey (00:33:39): when we were first new in the rooms. Rachel Casey (00:33:42): And we can tell you what worked for us. Rachel Casey (00:33:45): Again, it's all just experience. Rachel Casey (00:33:48): And by the time, Rachel Casey (00:33:49): hopefully, Rachel Casey (00:33:49): that that person shares that's new, Rachel Casey (00:33:52): you get quite a few different shares that hopefully one spoke to you. Rachel Casey (00:33:59): Because it's all different. Rachel Casey (00:34:01): There are all types of drinkers. Rachel Casey (00:34:03): Mm-hmm. Rachel Casey (00:34:05): But yeah, you're right. Rachel Casey (00:34:06): We won't, you can't know if you don't share. Rachel Casey (00:34:08): And like I said, Rachel Casey (00:34:09): really, Rachel Casey (00:34:09): honestly, Rachel Casey (00:34:11): you probably have the most valuable information to share if you're new. Rachel Casey (00:34:16): I've heard wisdom from newcomers that old timers just don't hit because it's been Rachel Casey (00:34:23): there in this gratitude mode and I might not be in gratitude mode right now. Rachel Casey (00:34:27): I'm in like, my life just got rocked. Rachel Casey (00:34:30): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:34:31): Like, Rachel Casey (00:34:33): So if you're listening, that's you. Rachel Casey (00:34:34): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:34:35): It's honestly, you are doing a service for you and everyone else. David McMenimen (00:34:43): And it's, David McMenimen (00:34:44): I think it's daunting to go to 12 step meetings in the beginning anyway, David McMenimen (00:34:48): at least it was for me. David McMenimen (00:34:49): Um, David McMenimen (00:34:53): I haven't seen anyone yet who goes to their first 12-step or a sobriety meeting and David McMenimen (00:35:00): afterwards rubs their hands together and say, David McMenimen (00:35:02): boy, David McMenimen (00:35:02): I'm really looking forward to a lifetime of this, David McMenimen (00:35:04): right? Rachel Casey (00:35:07): No, you usually... I remember what happened here in my experience. Rachel Casey (00:35:13): And mine might be just a tad different because... Rachel Casey (00:35:16): My husband and I did get sober same day and we were at the same meeting, Rachel Casey (00:35:21): same back of the corner. Rachel Casey (00:35:22): And so I kind of did have a side pick. Rachel Casey (00:35:24): I wasn't all by myself. Rachel Casey (00:35:26): Hearing that we were new. Rachel Casey (00:35:30): Everyone came up to us after, keep coming back, gave us a schedule of the meetings. Rachel Casey (00:35:34): I mean, we got a newcomer packet and it was a very big meeting that night. Rachel Casey (00:35:38): Oh, not huge. Rachel Casey (00:35:39): It was like 40 people. Rachel Casey (00:35:41): So, Rachel Casey (00:35:41): I mean, Rachel Casey (00:35:41): we got a good packet of phone numbers, Rachel Casey (00:35:44): which we were like, Rachel Casey (00:35:45): we will never, Rachel Casey (00:35:46): ever call them. Rachel Casey (00:35:48): And I have that packet still, Rachel Casey (00:35:50): and I don't think I got any phone numbers from the packet, Rachel Casey (00:35:53): but I can tell you I have every person on that packet's phone number just because I Rachel Casey (00:35:57): went there every day, Rachel Casey (00:35:59): multiple times a day. Rachel Casey (00:36:00): And I keep my newcomer packet just because it's now sent. Rachel Casey (00:36:05): It's like my desire chip. Rachel Casey (00:36:06): It's my special memory of a day that, like, my world changed. Rachel Casey (00:36:13): But when we left, I... Rachel Casey (00:36:15): could have thrown that in the trash to be honest I was like I'm never ever calling Rachel Casey (00:36:20): any of these people or one of them said text me on the side I was like they don't Rachel Casey (00:36:24): mean it like they don't want to hear it they're just writing that because they have Rachel Casey (00:36:27): to or I also thought the person chairing was like in charge like Rachel Casey (00:36:34): Cause they had this binder and I'm like, okay. Rachel Casey (00:36:38): And that's why we sat in the back, but you learn that it's the whole room. Rachel Casey (00:36:42): Like it's not even, it wasn't like a speaker meeting or anything. Rachel Casey (00:36:45): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:36:46): Uh, Rachel Casey (00:36:49): It's just, it's wild your first time versus like going in there like it's your second home. David McMenimen (00:36:54): I mean, David McMenimen (00:36:55): obviously I've been sober a long time, David McMenimen (00:36:57): but I think back fondly on those days of early sobriety. David McMenimen (00:37:02): I remember a guy saying, and he's still around today, I still see him at meetings. David McMenimen (00:37:06): He said, you'll never have to pick up a drink again. David McMenimen (00:37:09): But what he also used to say is you'll never have to get sober again. David McMenimen (00:37:13): And that really resonated with me because I don't want to have to get sober again. David McMenimen (00:37:17): I remember what it was like. David McMenimen (00:37:19): early sobriety. David McMenimen (00:37:21): He also said, if your head's racing 100 miles an hour, you've come to the right place. David McMenimen (00:37:27): And I remember saying, this is going to be great. David McMenimen (00:37:30): They're going to get me sober. David McMenimen (00:37:31): And then my head always races. David McMenimen (00:37:34): My head will shut off. David McMenimen (00:37:35): I did get sober, David McMenimen (00:37:36): but after 40 years of sobriety, David McMenimen (00:37:39): I'd like to tell you my head shut off, David McMenimen (00:37:40): but it's not. David McMenimen (00:37:41): I tried meditation and tried reading the Bible and tried other stuff. David McMenimen (00:37:46): And now David McMenimen (00:37:46): What works for me is when my head races, David McMenimen (00:37:48): and it races all the time, David McMenimen (00:37:50): I just let it go wherever it wants to go. David McMenimen (00:37:52): And thankfully, David McMenimen (00:37:53): I don't act out on all other things I think about, David McMenimen (00:37:57): because if I did, David McMenimen (00:37:57): I'd be dead, David McMenimen (00:37:58): or I'd be in prison, David McMenimen (00:37:59): or be in a locked ward somewhere. David McMenimen (00:38:01): So I just... David McMenimen (00:38:03): And eventually, sometimes it slows down, you know, and sometimes I can meditate, not by design. David McMenimen (00:38:10): Sometimes I just, it shuts off and I'm okay for a little while. David McMenimen (00:38:14): I thought I was alone. David McMenimen (00:38:15): I mean, David McMenimen (00:38:15): I really thought nobody's head races like mine does, David McMenimen (00:38:19): but more and more people say, David McMenimen (00:38:21): yep, David McMenimen (00:38:22): my head is noisy. David McMenimen (00:38:23): It doesn't shut off. Rachel Casey (00:38:25): A hundred. Rachel Casey (00:38:25): Yeah. David McMenimen (00:38:26): My sobriety date, you know, June 30th in 1984. David McMenimen (00:38:29): That's when I started the rest of my life. David McMenimen (00:38:32): You know, I've been sober over half, half my life. David McMenimen (00:38:35): I'm going to be 77 on the 26th of May. David McMenimen (00:38:38): So I've been sober over half my life and, um, Rachel Casey (00:38:42): I was looking for those who can do math. David McMenimen (00:38:43): Yeah. David McMenimen (00:38:44): You know, I wouldn't have it any other way, you know. David McMenimen (00:38:48): I mean, I should be dead for some of the stuff I pulled while I was drinking. David McMenimen (00:38:53): And sobriety and 12 steps saved my life. David McMenimen (00:38:56): One thing I learned is meetings around here, David McMenimen (00:38:58): I'm sure they do it in other places, David McMenimen (00:38:59): they describe the disease. David McMenimen (00:39:01): And it's threefold. David McMenimen (00:39:02): It's physical, mental, and spiritual. David McMenimen (00:39:05): And Rachel Casey (00:39:06): That's the three sides of the triangle, Rachel Casey (00:39:08): and that's what each of the words on the triangle stand for. David McMenimen (00:39:11): I've heard people say it. David McMenimen (00:39:12): I'm wired differently to this day. David McMenimen (00:39:15): I don't know what it is, but when I pick up a drink, I can't stop drinking. David McMenimen (00:39:20): It sets off a physical compulsion, David McMenimen (00:39:22): and maybe somebody could examine me someday to find out why I'm that way, David McMenimen (00:39:28): but it's a moot point with me today. David McMenimen (00:39:31): I can't drink in safety. David McMenimen (00:39:36): identify as an alcoholic it was like now what am I going to do about it David McMenimen (00:39:42): Now that I've counted myself in, David McMenimen (00:39:44): am I going to white buckle it, David McMenimen (00:39:45): sit on the edge of my seat and say, David McMenimen (00:39:47): like you say, David McMenimen (00:39:48): oh, David McMenimen (00:39:48): sobriety sucks. David McMenimen (00:39:49): I've never said that. David McMenimen (00:39:50): Or am I going to go to step meetings and take a look at myself and try to do David McMenimen (00:39:55): something about the other things that were wrong with me? David McMenimen (00:39:58): And that's what I've done. David McMenimen (00:40:00): You know, David McMenimen (00:40:00): that's why when you talk about gratitude, David McMenimen (00:40:02): I'm grateful every day that I wake up sober and I know that I'm an alcoholic and David McMenimen (00:40:07): there are programs like David McMenimen (00:40:09): 12 step and there's another sobriety platform i go to and um the other thing is David McMenimen (00:40:15): i've learned this there are other paths to recovery to sobriety besides 12 step i David McMenimen (00:40:19): mean this is a platform here the silver banter and there's a pretty big uh recovery David McMenimen (00:40:26): community here in marblehead where i live there's meetings all day long if you want David McMenimen (00:40:30): to look for them and um David McMenimen (00:40:32): I always say I can't go far in this town without seeing somebody that's in AA, David McMenimen (00:40:37): used to be in AA or should be in AA. David McMenimen (00:40:39): But when I see somebody that's in AA, David McMenimen (00:40:43): I always say, David McMenimen (00:40:44): even if we talk for 15 minutes, David McMenimen (00:40:45): I say, David McMenimen (00:40:46): this counts as a meeting on my meeting scorecard. David McMenimen (00:40:49): Oh, it takes just two people to have a meeting. David McMenimen (00:40:54): Yeah. David McMenimen (00:40:54): I mean, I'm just glad I'm sober. David McMenimen (00:40:56): You know, I've seen my daughter graduate from high school, from college. David McMenimen (00:40:59): She got married back in March and, you know, there was an open bar. David McMenimen (00:41:04): Yeah. David McMenimen (00:41:04): I mean, she drinks, not like I did. David McMenimen (00:41:06): And, you know, there was a fair amount of booze there. David McMenimen (00:41:09): People were drinking. David McMenimen (00:41:10): I didn't drink. David McMenimen (00:41:11): I didn't feel like drinking. David McMenimen (00:41:12): It was a fun time because I was sober. David McMenimen (00:41:15): You know, she got married up in Vermont and David McMenimen (00:41:18): It was really nice. Rachel Casey (00:41:19): Weddings are great sober. Rachel Casey (00:41:20): Another thing I was like, how am I ever? Rachel Casey (00:41:23): Because I was the kind of person that if I didn't hear that there was an open bar, Rachel Casey (00:41:26): I was like, Rachel Casey (00:41:27): well, Rachel Casey (00:41:28): I had a hairbrush that you could pour alcohol. Rachel Casey (00:41:32): So I would bring my Jameson hairbrush to be like, Rachel Casey (00:41:35): I'm not going to any wedding without drinking unless I was pregnant. Rachel Casey (00:41:39): When I was pregnant with Evan, that was one of the things that validated it to me that I Rachel Casey (00:41:45): i never drank when i was pregnant once i knew actually that's that would be a lie Rachel Casey (00:41:50): if i say that because even the night i found out i was pregnant it was not a good Rachel Casey (00:41:56): time we did not we were not trying this was a very big accident i mean colin and i Rachel Casey (00:42:01): had been together for like four years and we were living together not married Rachel Casey (00:42:06): though not engaged and after i found out drunk super drunk found out i was pregnant Rachel Casey (00:42:12): peed on like five sticks Rachel Casey (00:42:14): Pretended like, Rachel Casey (00:42:15): well, Rachel Casey (00:42:16): what if I hadn't found out till tomorrow and still went out to the bar and got Rachel Casey (00:42:19): hammered over it? Rachel Casey (00:42:20): I was like, this will be my last hurrah. Rachel Casey (00:42:22): And I never had a drink after that in pregnancy because I knew even with the women Rachel Casey (00:42:28): today that'll say you can have like a glass of wine or whatever. Rachel Casey (00:42:32): whatever the thankfully I had a doctor that like was pretty big on no amount of Rachel Casey (00:42:37): alcohol is safe for a baby but I knew I couldn't just have one I never just wanted Rachel Casey (00:42:43): one glass even in pregnancy I was like that I don't want to just have one and then Rachel Casey (00:42:49): I'll crave more and then I'm pregnant and I don't I think my inner core knew Rachel Casey (00:42:56): that that was really probably my first big sign that I had a problem with alcohol. Rachel Casey (00:43:03): But that's not when I got sober. Rachel Casey (00:43:05): I got sober years later. Rachel Casey (00:43:06): He was two. Rachel Casey (00:43:07): So my son technically has seen me drink a lot. Rachel Casey (00:43:09): But I hope he won't remember it. David McMenimen (00:43:15): How many children do you have? Rachel Casey (00:43:17): One. David McMenimen (00:43:18): One, yeah. Rachel Casey (00:43:19): Again, it wasn't planned. Rachel Casey (00:43:23): And I mean, once we got sober... Rachel Casey (00:43:26): That was our second full-time job, as you had said. Rachel Casey (00:43:29): So now we had like three full-time jobs. Rachel Casey (00:43:32): We had money job, recovery job, parent job. Rachel Casey (00:43:38): So how many years sober were you when you had your daughter? David McMenimen (00:43:41): About five years. David McMenimen (00:43:49): I say this at meetings, David McMenimen (00:43:50): but when I'm saying I was an introvert, David McMenimen (00:43:53): I couldn't talk to anybody before I got sober. David McMenimen (00:43:56): Even in sobriety, I was locked up inside myself. David McMenimen (00:44:03): Especially, I couldn't talk to women for whatever reason. David McMenimen (00:44:06): I just couldn't. David McMenimen (00:44:07): I was thinking about that today. David McMenimen (00:44:11): I met my wife in a sobriety platform. David McMenimen (00:44:13): She's not an alcoholic, but in a sobriety platform. Rachel Casey (00:44:16): I was going to say, did you just go hang out around the Al-Anon room? Rachel Casey (00:44:20): No. Rachel Casey (00:44:20): I'm just kidding. David McMenimen (00:44:23): But anyway, we get married. David McMenimen (00:44:25): We just celebrated our 36th anniversary a couple of weeks ago. Rachel Casey (00:44:29): Congratulations. David McMenimen (00:44:30): Thanks. David McMenimen (00:44:30): Wow. Rachel Casey (00:44:31): You got a lot of milestones, right? Rachel Casey (00:44:32): Yeah, this time of year. Rachel Casey (00:44:33): This is the time to be alive. David McMenimen (00:44:35): A lot of milestones for me. David McMenimen (00:44:37): It's amazing. David McMenimen (00:44:39): But I always say that, David McMenimen (00:44:41): so we get married in May, David McMenimen (00:44:44): and my daughter was born in November, David McMenimen (00:44:46): so you can do the math. David McMenimen (00:44:48): And so I went from not being able to talk to women, David McMenimen (00:44:53): and now I'm going to be living with two of them for the rest of my life. Rachel Casey (00:44:58): Now you're outnumbered. David McMenimen (00:44:59): Yeah. David McMenimen (00:45:01): It's okay. David McMenimen (00:45:01): It's... David McMenimen (00:45:03): I remember about six months before I got married, I bought a condo in Salem, Massachusetts. David McMenimen (00:45:10): It was the first time I'd ever saved enough money to buy property and David McMenimen (00:45:15): I was single at the time, and it was a one-bedroom condo. David McMenimen (00:45:18): It was a nice place. David McMenimen (00:45:20): I was really looking forward to living there by myself for a while, David McMenimen (00:45:23): and then, David McMenimen (00:45:24): you know, David McMenimen (00:45:24): we get married, David McMenimen (00:45:25): and my wife moved in, David McMenimen (00:45:26): and that worked out okay, David McMenimen (00:45:27): too. David McMenimen (00:45:27): But it's one of those things I look back on. David McMenimen (00:45:29): Yeah, David McMenimen (00:45:30): I mean, David McMenimen (00:45:30): sobriety saved my life, David McMenimen (00:45:32): and I should be dead, David McMenimen (00:45:33): like I said, David McMenimen (00:45:34): a couple of times over, David McMenimen (00:45:35): and I'm David McMenimen (00:45:36): One of the platforms I did find, David McMenimen (00:45:38): I don't know if you've heard of it, David McMenimen (00:45:39): it's called The Luckiest Club. David McMenimen (00:45:41): But you had, on one of these interviews, you had Alison Duraney. Rachel Casey (00:45:46): Mm-hmm. David McMenimen (00:45:48): Allison and I have friends. David McMenimen (00:45:49): I met her in the luckiest club, David McMenimen (00:45:53): and I either see her or, David McMenimen (00:45:55): matter of fact, David McMenimen (00:45:56): I'll see her in a Zoom meeting tomorrow. David McMenimen (00:45:58): She's a moderator, David McMenimen (00:45:59): but one of those people I didn't know that I met along the way, David McMenimen (00:46:01): and I'm grateful for our friendship. Rachel Casey (00:46:06): She's a good person. Rachel Casey (00:46:07): She has good sobriety, too, and David McMenimen (00:46:10): She's on with another woman. David McMenimen (00:46:12): Is it Julie Fontes? Rachel Casey (00:46:15): I love Julie. Rachel Casey (00:46:16): Julie Fontes. David McMenimen (00:46:17): I think they were on together. Rachel Casey (00:46:19): Oh, my God. Rachel Casey (00:46:19): Julie... So, Julie was my very first interview on Sober Banter. David McMenimen (00:46:24): Oh, really? David McMenimen (00:46:25): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:46:25): I was so nervous and... Rachel Casey (00:46:28): she is literally just the sweetest person actually yeah i had both julie and Rachel Casey (00:46:32): allison on an episode of sober banter so that was such such fun i have i've been Rachel Casey (00:46:38): dealing with long covid since about a year sober and it sucks because there is Rachel Casey (00:46:45): nothing worse i was feeling the best ever and Rachel Casey (00:46:49): To now, my body is infected with this other disease. Rachel Casey (00:46:54): The only thing that I can compare it to, Rachel Casey (00:46:57): like you said, Rachel Casey (00:46:57): is had I not been sober and got this, Rachel Casey (00:47:02): I would have died. Rachel Casey (00:47:03): I don't think I'd be alive because my body is like... Rachel Casey (00:47:06): barely hanging on right now without the alcohol. Rachel Casey (00:47:10): And they can't figure out quite what's causing it. Rachel Casey (00:47:13): So it's one day at a time. Rachel Casey (00:47:15): And sobriety has kind of saved my life and autoimmune wise too, Rachel Casey (00:47:18): because a lot of those same principles of how I got sober, Rachel Casey (00:47:22): I use with having a mystery illness. Rachel Casey (00:47:25): It's like, well, for today, I'm just going to try and live for today. Rachel Casey (00:47:31): And we're going to wake up tomorrow and see where we're at tomorrow. Rachel Casey (00:47:34): All I know is I don't want to drink. Rachel Casey (00:47:35): Exactly. David McMenimen (00:47:37): So that's what it's all about. Rachel Casey (00:47:41): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:47:41): And it's about showing up too, about doing things. Rachel Casey (00:47:47): And sometimes it does. Rachel Casey (00:47:48): And I'm not here to lie. Rachel Casey (00:47:50): Like the whole point of this platform is to be brutal honesty of laughing about, Rachel Casey (00:47:55): I don't want to go to a meeting or I don't want to. Rachel Casey (00:47:58): And I think the best ones are the ones that I actually didn't want to go to. Rachel Casey (00:48:03): And I say that every time that I'm like, man, I needed that so much more than I knew. Rachel Casey (00:48:09): And it really, I used to use the quote, get the body there and the mind will follow. Rachel Casey (00:48:13): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:48:15): So and as an alcoholic, Rachel Casey (00:48:17): it's like even with X amount of years in sobriety, Rachel Casey (00:48:20): there are still things I think we all just don't want to do. Rachel Casey (00:48:24): I just don't drink over it anymore. Rachel Casey (00:48:26): And I have to learn to. Rachel Casey (00:48:29): It's a dubious luxury. Rachel Casey (00:48:30): That's what Bill says. Rachel Casey (00:48:32): You know, that dubious luxury I cannot have is I don't get to get angry at the world. Rachel Casey (00:48:36): I have to like actually fix it. Rachel Casey (00:48:37): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:48:38): Because the resentment is what will kill me and make me want to go to a drink. Rachel Casey (00:48:43): So it's like, I wish I had that dubious luxury to just be mad at the world, but I can't. David McMenimen (00:48:48): I'm the same way. David McMenimen (00:48:49): Like I can go to a live meeting and I get on there all charged up. David McMenimen (00:48:53): I'm going to hear some words of wisdom and I get on in the meeting and it sucks. David McMenimen (00:48:59): It doesn't do anything for me. David McMenimen (00:49:00): That's when I have to look at myself. David McMenimen (00:49:01): You know, why didn't I raise my hand and say something? David McMenimen (00:49:04): But at the same time, David McMenimen (00:49:05): I can go to some meeting and, David McMenimen (00:49:07): you know, David McMenimen (00:49:07): I don't feel like driving down there tonight or today. David McMenimen (00:49:12): Same people, same shit, you know. David McMenimen (00:49:16): But then I hear something from somebody and I take her with me. David McMenimen (00:49:21): And one-liners stick with me more than a lot of the psychobabble and the dogma and David McMenimen (00:49:27): stuff like that. David McMenimen (00:49:29): And you were talking about people, David McMenimen (00:49:30): you know, David McMenimen (00:49:31): you can tell whether they have a good program or not. David McMenimen (00:49:35): One thing, David McMenimen (00:49:35): when I first got sober and I'd see the people, David McMenimen (00:49:38): people I were attracted to, David McMenimen (00:49:39): they used to say they wear their sobriety like a loose garment. David McMenimen (00:49:44): You know, it rolls off them. David McMenimen (00:49:46): They're not telling you what to do. David McMenimen (00:49:47): They're telling you what they do. David McMenimen (00:49:49): And that's what I try to do today. David McMenimen (00:49:51): I don't want to, David McMenimen (00:49:51): when I start telling people what to do, David McMenimen (00:49:54): I'm trying to give away something I don't have. David McMenimen (00:49:56): But if I tell them this is what I've done, David McMenimen (00:49:58): you know, David McMenimen (00:49:59): and you can take it from there, David McMenimen (00:50:01): those are the people I'm attracted to in sobriety. Rachel Casey (00:50:04): I did really relate to another creator I've had on here, Paulina Pinsky. Rachel Casey (00:50:09): She writes Newly Sober on Substack. David McMenimen (00:50:12): I mean, Substack, yeah. Rachel Casey (00:50:13): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:50:14): And it was a post about Instagram and being a creator versus sharing, Rachel Casey (00:50:22): you know, Rachel Casey (00:50:22): carrying your... Rachel Casey (00:50:24): And hers was even about writing. Rachel Casey (00:50:25): It wasn't even necessarily sobriety. Rachel Casey (00:50:27): And I feel that so strongly because there is a part of... Rachel Casey (00:50:30): I don't want to be the website that's like, Rachel Casey (00:50:33): download the free copy of How to Get Sober with 10 Days. Rachel Casey (00:50:38): And here's your 10 hacks to... Rachel Casey (00:50:40): Perfect. Rachel Casey (00:50:41): Like, I feel like that is so not me. Rachel Casey (00:50:44): And it's also I don't want to take credit because then I do feel like that's Rachel Casey (00:50:49): exactly what Bill did write the traditions for is like, Rachel Casey (00:50:52): hey, Rachel Casey (00:50:52): I don't want to like have this marketing program. Rachel Casey (00:50:57): I just want to share the truth. Rachel Casey (00:50:59): I want to share that like today. Rachel Casey (00:51:01): I have this ulcer on my freaking tongue. Rachel Casey (00:51:03): My hair is a mess. Rachel Casey (00:51:06): I am just on cloud nine with joy from graduation. Rachel Casey (00:51:08): I just want to soak in that feeling. Rachel Casey (00:51:10): Equipment's not working. Rachel Casey (00:51:12): I mean, I could tell you nine things that make sobriety. Rachel Casey (00:51:15): Like I have wrote things, but I just feel so wrong putting it out there. Rachel Casey (00:51:20): But that seems to be how to create community. Rachel Casey (00:51:23): Right. Rachel Casey (00:51:24): you have to do oh yeah a third this 30 day challenge and subscribe get the Rachel Casey (00:51:31): subscribe button but i cannot do come to this meeting and i'll give you my 10 Rachel Casey (00:51:37): secrets to sobriety because there really aren't i could just tell you what we just Rachel Casey (00:51:42): talked about yeah and that's not really a secret that is information for anyone who Rachel Casey (00:51:47): wants it David McMenimen (00:51:48): That's what I heard once, and it's true, and I still use it. David McMenimen (00:51:53): Don't drink. David McMenimen (00:51:54): Go to a meeting. David McMenimen (00:51:55): Wait for further instructions. Rachel Casey (00:51:58): I love that. Rachel Casey (00:51:59): Wait for further instructions. Rachel Casey (00:52:01): We'll let you know when you get there. David McMenimen (00:52:04): A couple of summers ago, my wife and I were up in Vermont. David McMenimen (00:52:07): We went to the Bill Wilson house in East Dorset, Vermont. David McMenimen (00:52:11): I don't get that emotional, but when I walked in there, I had a lump in my throat. David McMenimen (00:52:16): And I said, this is the place that saved my life. David McMenimen (00:52:19): If you're ever in East Dorset, Vermont, it's it. Rachel Casey (00:52:23): Oh, yeah. Rachel Casey (00:52:23): I mean, I'll go visit for sure. Rachel Casey (00:52:25): I've already planned. Rachel Casey (00:52:25): I want to go to the Akron, Ohio. Rachel Casey (00:52:28): I want to go. Rachel Casey (00:52:29): I love the history of all. Rachel Casey (00:52:32): I studied it for a while because it was so it wasn't like this big conspiracy. Rachel Casey (00:52:37): Like the AA was not born. Rachel Casey (00:52:40): I mean, it was pretty simple. Rachel Casey (00:52:42): It was a couple of guys. Rachel Casey (00:52:44): Didn't they actually met because and they're in this Oxford group program, Rachel Casey (00:52:49): which was very religious, Rachel Casey (00:52:52): had opinions, Rachel Casey (00:52:53): got shut down for those opinions. Rachel Casey (00:52:56): And but they were like, listen, there's still something here. Rachel Casey (00:52:59): And that's pretty much it. Rachel Casey (00:53:01): Everything else, it was done on budget. Rachel Casey (00:53:03): It was a lot of Bill had a lot of struggle of the ego and keeping himself in check Rachel Casey (00:53:08): while creating this thing. Rachel Casey (00:53:12): One of the biggest years. Rachel Casey (00:53:14): of my big book one of my favorite favorite parts like i have so many little quotes Rachel Casey (00:53:20): written in the but in the very very beginning i have it re-stickered this is this Rachel Casey (00:53:30): book was just written how it used to be in the original edition which i also have Rachel Casey (00:53:35): how a hundred men recovered from alcoholism that was it Rachel Casey (00:53:39): It was 100 guys that they're like, hey, this is what's worked for us. Rachel Casey (00:53:44): Bill was only two years sober when he wrote the book. Rachel Casey (00:53:49): This wasn't some like Mel Robbins empowerment speech. Rachel Casey (00:53:56): He was a normal guy. Rachel Casey (00:53:57): And when I first started reading or hearing even the book read, Rachel Casey (00:54:02): it really didn't connect with me. Rachel Casey (00:54:05): In the way it does today, because I also have to remember, this was back in 1930s and 40s. Rachel Casey (00:54:13): He talks about the Stark market crash of the 1920s. Rachel Casey (00:54:18): He was working that. Rachel Casey (00:54:19): That's where he thought he had arrived. Rachel Casey (00:54:22): And if you can just put that to 100 years of today. Rachel Casey (00:54:25): So what I was saying, one exercise that I did was... Rachel Casey (00:54:30): was I rewrote some of those step prayers, but in my own words. Rachel Casey (00:54:36): So trying to find a way to modernize. Rachel Casey (00:54:43): Now, Rachel Casey (00:54:44): once you do that and you find a connection, Rachel Casey (00:54:46): I actually start to appreciate the way Bill wrote it, Rachel Casey (00:54:48): and I now prefer it that way. Rachel Casey (00:54:50): But in the beginning... Rachel Casey (00:54:52): It's, this book was modern at the time it came out. Rachel Casey (00:54:57): And that's kind of hard to explain to Gen Z at times. Rachel Casey (00:55:02): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:55:03): And I'm kind of millennial Gen Z, Rachel Casey (00:55:06): like, Rachel Casey (00:55:08): because my husband's like borderline millennial Gen X. Rachel Casey (00:55:11): Because he's seven years older than me. Rachel Casey (00:55:14): And we're right borderline. Rachel Casey (00:55:16): And it's the younger generation or my generation that Rachel Casey (00:55:22): AA can look strict, but it's really not. Rachel Casey (00:55:27): Or it can look overly religious, and it's not. Rachel Casey (00:55:30): No. Rachel Casey (00:55:32): It's how, again, and that's where like the different meetings, different styles. Rachel Casey (00:55:36): I think if I went to a book study in my first year of sobriety or before I was Rachel Casey (00:55:44): finished working the steps, Rachel Casey (00:55:45): I probably been like, Rachel Casey (00:55:46): is this really going to keep me sober? Rachel Casey (00:55:49): I either needed to probably go at speaker meetings to hear someone's story or Rachel Casey (00:55:54): discussion meetings. Rachel Casey (00:55:55): And usually a newcomer steps one, two and three. Rachel Casey (00:55:58): Those are the meetings I want to go to. Rachel Casey (00:56:00): And that, Rachel Casey (00:56:01): you know, Rachel Casey (00:56:01): the reason they offer the different meetings is because different places in Rachel Casey (00:56:05): sobriety. David McMenimen (00:56:05): Have you seen the movie The Bill W. Story? Rachel Casey (00:56:08): Yeah. David McMenimen (00:56:09): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:56:11): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:56:12): And I've also done, again, another one of my favorites, a Joe and Charlie study is the tapes. Rachel Casey (00:56:19): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:56:20): I don't know if you've heard the big book Comes Alive by Joe and Charlie. Rachel Casey (00:56:23): No, I haven't. Rachel Casey (00:56:24): Oh, my God. Rachel Casey (00:56:25): Yeah. Rachel Casey (00:56:26): I want to run one. Rachel Casey (00:56:27): I want to hold that meeting. Rachel Casey (00:56:28): So it is one of my absolute favorite meetings. Rachel Casey (00:56:32): Once I've also heard Bill speak, I've gone and looked it up. Rachel Casey (00:56:35): It's on YouTube. Rachel Casey (00:56:36): It's not like super easy to search for, Rachel Casey (00:56:38): but actually that's what I need to do is I'm going to put some links on Sober Rachel Casey (00:56:41): Banter's page. Rachel Casey (00:56:43): And once you hear him talk, Rachel Casey (00:56:46): his writing in the book kind of makes more sense because like I said, Rachel Casey (00:56:50): this book was not written to be Rachel Casey (00:56:54): your 2025 10 secrets to sobriety although i think bill might have marketed it you Rachel Casey (00:56:59): know it like and that's how you get people to listen it with what would it be like Rachel Casey (00:57:04): instead of the daily reflections it's like 365 days to change your life and it's Rachel Casey (00:57:12): 365 people you know and we have to again remember we're back this is in the 1920s Rachel Casey (00:57:17): and he's just trying to be like hey what are some Rachel Casey (00:57:22): He just wanted to find a way. Rachel Casey (00:57:24): There wasn't online social media. Rachel Casey (00:57:26): There was barely phones. Rachel Casey (00:57:28): And he's like, how can we connect? Rachel Casey (00:57:32): And at the time, books, magazines, or not magazines, I'm sorry, newspapers. Rachel Casey (00:57:38): That was it. Rachel Casey (00:57:39): And David McMenimen (00:57:45): 365 excruciating days to get you sold. Rachel Casey (00:57:51): No, seriously. Rachel Casey (00:57:52): And it's, I think I respect the simplicity that's behind it too. Rachel Casey (00:57:59): And the more that's revealed is Bill is just writing from his heart. Rachel Casey (00:58:08): He's just writing what worked for him and Rachel Casey (00:58:12): Again, originally, a hundred other guys. Rachel Casey (00:58:15): They went to the hospital. Rachel Casey (00:58:16): They did the footwork. Rachel Casey (00:58:18): And they didn't do it for glory. Rachel Casey (00:58:22): They didn't do it for fame or fortune. Rachel Casey (00:58:24): He did it for survival, like most of us. David McMenimen (00:58:28): Yeah. David McMenimen (00:58:29): when I, David McMenimen (00:58:29): when I went to the Bill Wilson house in Vermont, David McMenimen (00:58:33): they showed a copy of, David McMenimen (00:58:35): it was his last public speech before he died. David McMenimen (00:58:39): And, David McMenimen (00:58:39): um, David McMenimen (00:58:40): he said, David McMenimen (00:58:41): he could probably find it online, David McMenimen (00:58:42): but he said, David McMenimen (00:58:43): um, David McMenimen (00:58:45): AA will move forward and the sobriety world will evolve and AA needs to involve, David McMenimen (00:58:51): evolve with it, David McMenimen (00:58:53): which is, David McMenimen (00:58:53): you know, David McMenimen (00:58:54): that's why you see all these social platforms today. David McMenimen (00:58:57): And, um, David McMenimen (00:58:58): Yeah. David McMenimen (00:58:59): I'll go on to some of them and some of them, David McMenimen (00:59:01): I think they're along for the ride and there are other people that are serious David McMenimen (00:59:04): about helping people get sober. David McMenimen (00:59:07): And, um, David McMenimen (00:59:08): One thing somebody, David McMenimen (00:59:09): a guy said to me when we went to the Bill Wilson house, David McMenimen (00:59:12): there was a guy, David McMenimen (00:59:12): there's actually a hotel there, David McMenimen (00:59:15): a small hotel, David McMenimen (00:59:16): and this guy was working there. David McMenimen (00:59:17): He was sober like 35 years, but he gave us like a behind-the-scenes tour. David McMenimen (00:59:22): He showed us the room Bill was born in and the bedroom he slept in and stuff. David McMenimen (00:59:27): It was really nice, David McMenimen (00:59:28): but he said, David McMenimen (00:59:28): Muslims go to Mecca, David McMenimen (00:59:30): Catholics go to the Vatican, David McMenimen (00:59:33): drunks go to East Dorset for more. (00:59:35): What? David McMenimen (00:59:36): And it's true. Rachel Casey (00:59:38): And you know what's funny is I can tell my guess if Bill knew that his room he was Rachel Casey (00:59:47): being bored in was shown he would be mortified. Rachel Casey (00:59:50): He'd be like Rachel Casey (00:59:52): That does not matter. Rachel Casey (00:59:54): So far from recovery, he'd be like, who cares? Rachel Casey (00:59:58): And I know he struggled at the end. Rachel Casey (01:00:00): And I beyond identify with that because he wanted to, Rachel Casey (01:00:07): what a lot of us, Rachel Casey (01:00:09): and it makes sense, Rachel Casey (01:00:11): like even back in the 80s that you talk about, Rachel Casey (01:00:13): you're going to a course, Rachel Casey (01:00:16): like an alcohol course, Rachel Casey (01:00:17): and you're like 11 out of the 12 were in recovery themselves. Rachel Casey (01:00:20): Right. Rachel Casey (01:00:21): Because we find, Rachel Casey (01:00:22): like, Rachel Casey (01:00:22): we have this gift and, Rachel Casey (01:00:24): like, Rachel Casey (01:00:25): don't... Rachel Casey (01:00:25): Isn't the secret of working in life is to, Rachel Casey (01:00:28): like, Rachel Casey (01:00:29): find something that doesn't really feel like work? Rachel Casey (01:00:31): It's to find something you love doing. Rachel Casey (01:00:35): And Bill had said, like, he kind of wanted to go be a counselor in addiction. Rachel Casey (01:00:42): But there was this conflict because... Rachel Casey (01:00:46): He's doing, Rachel Casey (01:00:46): he created this group where it's all based on like it's a free knowledge group and Rachel Casey (01:00:50): now he wants to go turn around and now charge. Rachel Casey (01:00:55): And that was very conflicting. Rachel Casey (01:00:56): And he also, Rachel Casey (01:00:56): the bigger thing that he wanted to do was find the next level of how to break Rachel Casey (01:01:04): alcoholism. Rachel Casey (01:01:05): Like how to get to the people that are homeless, Rachel Casey (01:01:07): like that can't hear the message in the meeting. Rachel Casey (01:01:12): He was driven to try and find alcoholism. Rachel Casey (01:01:16): the next layer yeah and there's i don't think there's anything wrong with that no Rachel Casey (01:01:24): but people and actually i think we're from my studies again all speculation this is Rachel Casey (01:01:30): i'm in school for addiction i'm literally right now i'm taking class life and Rachel Casey (01:01:35): development of because it's required for psychology and the different experiments Rachel Casey (01:01:42): of Rachel Casey (01:01:44): basically nature versus nurture that i just wrote a paper on last night and um i Rachel Casey (01:01:54): mean i i get it it's just like you want to figure out how to help others in the Rachel Casey (01:02:03): next step and bill was doing that and when he passed it was really his wife Rachel Casey (01:02:08): who was more on the Al-Anon side saying, don't change anything. Rachel Casey (01:02:15): Keep everything as it is, word for word, piece by piece. Rachel Casey (01:02:19): Don't let it evolve. Rachel Casey (01:02:19): You need to respect Bill and respect Bob. Rachel Casey (01:02:22): And I think Bill, honestly, I think he would be proud to see online meetings. Rachel Casey (01:02:29): I think he would be happy to see Rachel Casey (01:02:34): the good i i don't know that he would and of course he would probably know there's Rachel Casey (01:02:38): people that are going to try and make money off of it i just talked about that with Rachel Casey (01:02:41): tim that with good comes the opposite which is like the corruption the treatment Rachel Casey (01:02:47): centers that the quote the heads in beds yeah that's not wanting to make people Rachel Casey (01:02:52): better yeah but there are ones that do and those ones that do you know it's Rachel Casey (01:03:03): Unfortunately, it's today's world. Rachel Casey (01:03:05): You got to find a way to like balance that and stay afloat without, you know, it's, it's hard. Rachel Casey (01:03:13): And I can totally tell that he really struggled at the, Rachel Casey (01:03:17): at the end of how, Rachel Casey (01:03:19): how do we balance this? Rachel Casey (01:03:20): Because it did become a monster and it did take off. David McMenimen (01:03:24): Yeah. Rachel Casey (01:03:26): And I don't know how you control that. Rachel Casey (01:03:28): And he didn't. Rachel Casey (01:03:28): And again, this is before social media. David McMenimen (01:03:30): Yeah. David McMenimen (01:03:31): I know it. David McMenimen (01:03:32): Yeah. Rachel Casey (01:03:33): Could you imagine with a Twitter how it would go? Rachel Casey (01:03:35): Oh, my God. Rachel Casey (01:03:37): On TikTok, like doing a little big book dance. David McMenimen (01:03:44): One thing that impressed me about AA once they started going was this place really runs itself. David McMenimen (01:03:51): Nobody's in charge. David McMenimen (01:03:52): There are people who would like to be in charge and they act like that. Rachel Casey (01:03:55): I was going to say there's the good and the bad of that. Rachel Casey (01:03:57): There's the good and the bad of that. David McMenimen (01:03:59): but I can get a meeting list book and look for a meeting in a particular town. David McMenimen (01:04:04): And if it's at such and such a time, David McMenimen (01:04:06): I can go there and there'll be people there, David McMenimen (01:04:09): be somebody making coffee and there'll be a speaker. David McMenimen (01:04:13): And if it's a discussion meeting, David McMenimen (01:04:16): there'll be people that are just raising their hand and talking about what they David McMenimen (01:04:19): want to talk about. David McMenimen (01:04:20): But, um, it isn't like they get rained out or anything like that, or it's postponed. David McMenimen (01:04:26): It's, Rachel Casey (01:04:27): No, I walked when it was snowing one year. Rachel Casey (01:04:31): If I didn't truly believe that myself, I would feel weird starting sober banter. Rachel Casey (01:04:36): And I definitely in the early days talked about how it's the intention, right? Rachel Casey (01:04:45): And that's what we learn in life is what's my intent. Rachel Casey (01:04:50): And I kind of do a mini prayer, Rachel Casey (01:04:52): if you will, Rachel Casey (01:04:52): before coming on the podcast every single time it's, Rachel Casey (01:04:57): what, what am I doing this for? Rachel Casey (01:04:59): Like kind of like my mission statement, like, who am I doing this for? Rachel Casey (01:05:02): I'm doing this for, Rachel Casey (01:05:03): you know, Rachel Casey (01:05:04): the Rachel that heard other little snippets of podcasts before I got sober. Rachel Casey (01:05:09): And at the time was like, that sounds like it sucks. Rachel Casey (01:05:14): And then I'm like, well, they looked happy. Rachel Casey (01:05:16): What was it? Rachel Casey (01:05:17): I'm going to go check it out again. Rachel Casey (01:05:19): See if they're still happy. Rachel Casey (01:05:20): See if they're still sober and they're still sober and they're still happy. Rachel Casey (01:05:23): And I'm over here miserable. Rachel Casey (01:05:24): And I'm like, gotta figure that out. Rachel Casey (01:05:26): And, Rachel Casey (01:05:29): eventually I I finally found my ways to the rooms and it saved my life so maybe Rachel Casey (01:05:36): that can be and if this isn't it for someone again the benefit is I just had a Rachel Casey (01:05:42): really great meeting with Rachel Casey (01:05:45): you David and I got friends all over the world that's where I another thing I love Rachel Casey (01:05:49): about AA is I'm like I got friends I can go anywhere and I have friends yeah I go Rachel Casey (01:05:55): to and the the meetings like I when I traveled the first two years I always made Rachel Casey (01:06:01): sure I knew where the closest meeting was so I could like I'd plan be like hey Rachel Casey (01:06:05): because I thought I'd get triggered Rachel Casey (01:06:09): Which I didn't. Rachel Casey (01:06:10): But I also like just seeing how other states do it. David McMenimen (01:06:13): Yeah. David McMenimen (01:06:15): The format is different in other places. David McMenimen (01:06:17): I've been in meetings in other parts of the country, other parts of the world. David McMenimen (01:06:21): But the message is the same. Rachel Casey (01:06:23): It's all the same. Rachel Casey (01:06:24): And it's fun. Rachel Casey (01:06:25): And it's like, man. Rachel Casey (01:06:27): I have a host of friends all over and there's literally 24 hour meetings. Rachel Casey (01:06:33): So I could wake up in the middle of the night and I bet Bill would be amazed by that. Rachel Casey (01:06:38): I bet he would be so proud of that. Rachel Casey (01:06:40): I don't think he would be like, they're not doing it right. Rachel Casey (01:06:44): Or they're not reading the traditions or the book or again, even touring his house. Rachel Casey (01:06:48): He'd be like, what? Rachel Casey (01:06:49): I'm just a normal guy. Rachel Casey (01:06:52): I was a stockbroker who had alcoholism. Rachel Casey (01:06:56): And we go to the loony bin. Rachel Casey (01:06:59): And he found the secret with Dr. Bob. Rachel Casey (01:07:04): And I think it's just really, the history makes it so beautiful to me. Rachel Casey (01:07:12): And I love that. Rachel Casey (01:07:13): I really love that. Rachel Casey (01:07:14): And I want to thank you so much for your time. Rachel Casey (01:07:16): Thank you for sharing this story. Rachel Casey (01:07:19): Thank you so much. Rachel Casey (01:07:20): I think this is going to help. Rachel Casey (01:07:23): You had a lot of things that were a lot of really, really relatable and really good sobriety. Rachel Casey (01:07:28): And again, Rachel Casey (01:07:29): the compliment, Rachel Casey (01:07:30): I can tell you run a good program and happy early belly button birthday and early Rachel Casey (01:07:36): actual sobriety birthday and happy belated anniversary. Rachel Casey (01:07:40): So just full of celebration. Rachel Casey (01:07:42): Thank you for sharing that on Sober Banter. David McMenimen (01:07:44): Thanks, Rachel. David McMenimen (01:07:46): If you ever get up to Boston, contact me. David McMenimen (01:07:48): We can meet up somewhere. David McMenimen (01:07:50): I'd love to do that. Rachel Casey (01:07:52): I would, I will, that would be another. Rachel Casey (01:07:56): Absolutely. Rachel Casey (01:07:57): I want to go so many different places to see so many different people. Rachel Casey (01:08:00): I definitely, Rachel Casey (01:08:01): I would love to organize a trip like to see the Bill Wilson house or do something Rachel Casey (01:08:04): in Akron even. Rachel Casey (01:08:05): Yeah. Rachel Casey (01:08:06): It's, I want to go so badly to those places. Rachel Casey (01:08:10): So yeah, I will definitely contact you. Rachel Casey (01:08:13): Thank you for listening to Sober Banter. Rachel Casey (01:08:14): Have a good day.