The Modern Hotelier #202: Creating a Positive Impact on the Planet & People in Hospitality | with Jon Buerge
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David Millili: Welcome to The Modern Hotelier, the most engaged podcast in hospitality. Don't forget to follow, like, subscribe, and let us know what you think about this episode in the comments below. Steve, who do we have on the program today?
Steve Carran: Yeah, David, today we have on Jon. Jon is the president of Urban Villages. He shaping the hospitality landscape by blending community driven experiences with innovative urban lodging concepts. He's a seasoned leader with two decades of real estate development experience, and Urban Villages is a real estate development and property management company that's focusing on long-term value generation through place oriented design and detail oriented operations. Welcome to the show, Jon.
Jon Buerge: Thank you, Steve. Looking forward to chatting with you all.
David Millili: All right. So Jon, we're gonna jump right in. We're gonna go through a quick lightning round, get to know you a little bit better, and then talk about some industry topics. Sound good?
Jon Buerge: Sounds great.
David Millili: All right. What is something that you wish you were better at?
Jon Buerge: Something I wish I was better at is, uh, rock climbing,
David Millili: Hmm? What's the most used emoji for you?
Jon Buerge: Exploding head surprised.
David Millili: Alright. If you had a time machine and you could go into the future or back to the past, which way are you going and what year?
Jon Buerge: go into the future and I would go to 2050 to better understand how we've adapted to a changing planet.
David Millili: That's a good answer. What's the best piece of advice you've received?
Jon Buerge: Something you love and pour yourself into it.
David Millili: Okay, last one here. What's your favorite city and why?
Jon Buerge: Copenhagen, because it is the most livable, walkable, human-centered city I've ever visited.
Steve Carran: That was great. Well done Jon. That was quick. That was quick. Uh, so now we're gonna dive into your background a little bit about more about you and what makes you tick. So you grew up in Aspen, Colorado, is that right?
Jon Buerge: I did. Yes, indeed. Born and raised.
Steve Carran: Nice. I actually was there last week, one of the most beautiful high schools I think I've ever seen. And that's where you went to high school too, right?
Jon Buerge: It is. Yeah. I graduated there in 1998.
Steve Carran: Very nice. So how did growing up in Aspen help shape you into who you are today?
Jon Buerge: Well, Aspen has like all of us, I think that where we grow up, the community that we were raised in, um, helps to define who we are and how we look at the world. Uh, for me, as you said, I grew up in one of the most beautiful natural environments on earth. And so, one of my defining characteristics is my deep, an unyielding love of the natural world, um, of natural ecosystems.
And, a deep love for allowing nature to be nature in its virgin form. Uh, and I think that by me growing up in the Rocky Mountains in, um, in Aspen, you know, I got to experience endless nature. I got to, um, wander into the woods and, and see, How beautiful nature is when you leave it alone, when you let it kind of be, in its pure form, and that’s dramatically shaped who I am. I also would say that Aspen, um, because of the wealth that is in that town, um, it prioritizes design and so I was able to, um, really experience beautiful design and how that impacts place. so that was a big contributing factor. And then third, I grew up in, ironically, in one of the wealthiest towns in the world indeed restricted affordable housing.
And so I grew up in a very interesting environment in which I was surrounded by billionaires and by endless wealth. Um, and yet my family was, uh, struggled. But it also did show how critical it is, to be able to create a community that allows for that kind of diversity, that allows, a variety of incomes and income classes to coexist in a, in a beautiful way, it creates upper mobility, it creates, um, you know, for me in my career, being able to grow up in one of the most. Well-funded public schools surrounded by extraordinarily educated, successful people. created a huge jumping off point for me, um, to build, a good career for myself. And so I think that growing up in Aspen shaped who I, who I am today in many, many ways.
Steve Carran: Wow. Great answer.
David Millili: You then went to University of Colorado. You got your degree in, real estate. And contract law. So what kind of led you to those degrees and how'd you end up there?
Jon Buerge: Well, when I was a kid, my grandfather, built and, and renovated and, uh, and worked on John Denver's house for, for many, many years. And so he became a, close family friend of ours. And with me growing up around, John Denver, he was a, major environmental advocate, and so he did a lot of work early on in trying to protect natural environments and to bring public awareness to the health of the planet that really drove me to want to pursue environmental stewardship in a whole variety of different forms. you know, most people don't realize that the real estate industry is arguably the biggest culprit to climate change and environmental degradation. About 40% of greenhouse gas emissions come from buildings, um, over half the materials we extract from the planet go into buildings.
And so that really led me to the real estate industry. then I pursued, um, a legal degree because I wanted to understand and, uh, and, and be a part of environmental regulations. Uh, and so that drove me into, um, a legal, career. ultimately I realized that the best way to make a positive impact is to show, um, the real estate industry that there are economically viable ways to build and operate buildings that are better for the planet without compromising return on investment. 
David Millili: And you served as a student body president and then chair of the CU Honor Council. What did that teach you in leadership? Move? Forward in your career.
Jon Buerge: Getting involved in student government for me was, fascinating because I got to really understand the student body at the University of Colorado. I got to really understand, what students. Prioritize what they cared about and how the student government was able to advocate for people.
I had to lead a whole variety of, uh, and very diverse, group of students and realized that not every priority could be pursued and that every, background could be advocated for. And so I realized that I had to take a lot of competing interests and create, continuity and, and a single voice so that really helped me to sharpen my ability to work with a variety of different people and understand their backgrounds and find common ground. my work in creating the first cu Honor council really taught me that you have to, in order for people to get fully engaged, they have to feel a sense of ownership.
And what we did with the CU Honor Council was create a really, a student led judiciary that evaluated when there were, conflicts with students, whether it was caught cheating on a test or breaking, um, the honor code in various forms. We actually implemented a student body panel that was able to evaluate those, infractions and decide on the best path forward.
And what that did is it created ownership in the student body that they felt like it was their responsibility to hold each other accountable. and that has so much more, momentum and power than if you just have, a bunch of teachers and professors and administrators deciding on. the path forward. And so that taught me that, um, engagement is critical to having ownership and progress. 
Steve Carran: So you grew up in Colorado. You live in Colorado now? I'm an hour north. You're in Fort Collins. So this is more a question just for me. Um, you're an outdoors man, kind of an adventure seeker yourself, what you grew up around. You know, Aspen, which has maroon bells, which is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been in my life, it used to be my screensaver and to see it in person was awesome. But what is your favorite outdoor experience or memory that you've had? 
Jon Buerge: Oh gosh. I mean, you threw me a softball there, this goes back about 15 years ago, but I'd always wanted to climb the marine bells and so, you know, I'd often looked at the marine bells from Crater Lake and kind of admired this beautiful, you know, internationally recognized nature scene, and I'd always wanted to climb. So, um, one day I, I did a, a group of friends and I went and climbed both north and south maroon. And in that experience, it actually, we got a, a massive amount of rain and fog and you couldn't see more than about, you know, 20 or 30 feet. On the, or on the, on the final ascent going up to north maroon, which is the more difficult of the two peaks.
We were set in fog in this little valley and we're walking up and you couldn't see anything, but you could hear rocks falling and you could hear an echoing off of the valley. And so you would, it was this very surreal experience where, you know, you were in, danger because you could. Here are the rocks coming, but you couldn't see them.
And it was just an extraordinary experience. And then as we were, um, summiting at the very end, there's a, an area where we have to rope in and, and climb a vertical wall. And right as we got to the top of that, we got above the cloud cover. And so we sort of emerged above, um, all of this fog that had set in and it fell, it was one of the most surreal, natural experiences I've ever had, but it felt like you were on an island like the clouds or the ocean. And the peak of north maroon was this island in this sea of clouds. Uh, and it was really, truly, I mean, just even recapping that experience gives me goosebumps.
Steve Carran: I can imagine I made it to Crater Lake, didn't make it up the, the north or south Mountains, but definitely bucket list looks incredible. So, that was great. So now we're gonna go into your career, how you got to be at Urban Villages. So I, was pretty fascinated you have a diverse career, kind of started out directing a. Political campaign in Colorado then you were managing properties and operations at Aspen Home Properties, you did research investment at Friars Commercial, and then you also did developing real estate strategies at or Urban Land Conservancy. What did those earlier days, teach you that you still take with you today?
Jon Buerge: One of the things that I believe strongly and I think I formed in those earlier days in my career is this idea that, um, real estate, whether it's in the hotel industry or the apartments or whatever area of real estate, is about creating places that people are attracted to and where people thrive.
And often in school and early in your career, you hear the adage about the top three rules of the real estate industry is location, location, location. but what people don't understand is that location is malleable. It changes and evolves over time, and there are things that you can do in the design and the management of real estate that can change, the location.
And so I think one of the things that I've really believed strongly now is that as a developer, as a investor, as a property manager, that you look at long-term trends. You look at where a community is changing, how it's shifting. Um, then you build what the community will need, not only today, but in the future.
And, and that is, is really in doing that you're able to create extraordinary locations because of the fact that you understand where things are going and you're building for the future. you know, our industry, it, it's, it's, it's interesting because most people think in five year, maybe 10 year timeframes, when they're thinking about underwriting a investing in a project. It's very short windows of time, but our buildings, that we build should be, if they're built correctly, last for hundreds of years. And so we are creating. Places where people, where communities are going to live and inhabit and, build their lives for generations. and so I think the other aspect of of early my career that I was able to kind of see the exposure of is that these we're in an industry that's long lasting, that's going to take a long time to build and create, but we'll be here well past our time. and that if you think in those time horizons, you really truly can, create your own locations.
David Millili: That's great. And then you then went to the Phoenix Retail Ventures and then Krat Works, restaurant and Brewery. What less. Since, did you learn from restaurants real tale that have helped you in the hospitality side of projects that you're working today?
Jon Buerge: The importance of cash flowing businesses. You know, you can build a beautiful building, but if your tenants can't succeed in the buildings, then it's all for Naugh. you know, and I think that it's so critical that, when we build a building, that we know that our tenants are gonna succeed.
And so my exposure in, in retail, on the retail side and on the restaurant side. I really started to understand like what will make this successful? What can I afford to pay in my occupancy costs? What are the things that, um, that I know are going to be barriers for me to succeed in my, in this restaurant or this retail experience?
That has allowed me to kind of put myself in the shoes of the occupant of the restaurant, of the retail tenant so that when we're designing a space that we're not designing it, you know, in a, in a, in a quiet room on our own without really understanding how those occupants are going to thrive in those spaces.
And so, hopefully that translates into, into design buildings and buildings that are operating in such a way that, create the, the format and the foundation for our tenants to succeed, both in the short term and the long run. 
Steve Carran: That's great. And for the past, just about 18 years you've been at Urban Villages, what made you come to Urban Villages? 
Jon Buerge: I actually, I had a mentor when I was in grad school, um, and I, I spent a lot of time getting to know this mentor and getting advice from him on how to, pursue my career and, and what kind of things I, I needed to look for in a career. And as I recapped my goal of making a very positive impact on communities and on the health of the planet.
And doing that in the real estate world. this mentor, recommended strongly that I meet the founder of Urban Villages Grant MCC Cargo. and he said, you know, you have to meet this guy. 'cause not a lot of people in the real estate industry think. Those perspectives. you know, most of the industry thinks about does this project pencil, and if it does, you do it, and so I got a meeting with Grant and I sat down with him and I told him about my history. I told him about my goals and my career and I said, you know, I've always been at this balancing point between. Making a positive impact and making a, a financially viable career. And he kind of interrupted me and he said, you know, John, if you wanna make the greatest impact possible, show people how to make money doing the right thing.
And for me, that was kind of like a, uh, I was sold at at that very moment. I said, you know, they don't have to be counterproductive, making positive impacts and making money. should be cohesive and when they are cohesive, they are replicable. and we are an industry of copycats, whether it's in the hotel industry or the real estate industry in general.
We follow each other. And so if we can at Urban Villages create a model and a proof point that you can build and operate buildings that are better for the planet and better for the community without compromising your return on investment, then others will follow suit. And I think that that's where, when I look back at the last 18 years of my time at Urban Villages, that's where we've made the biggest impact is that, we've been able to show, success, financial success, doing projects that are really pushing the envelope from an impact standpoint. And when we do that, others are curious. It piques people's interest and then they start to follow suit. It gives them a little bit more confidence to do it themselves.
David Millili: Yeah. Was listening or watching who aren't familiar with Urban Villages. Can you dive in a little bit more about what exactly Urban Villages are?
Jon Buerge: You know our name as a company, urban Villages is very, um, specifically, picked. when I think about my childhood growing up in, in a small town in Aspen, um, I think of community. I think of the fact that I knew my neighbors, I knew my teachers, I knew the community around me. And as a result, it was, a group of people that were all moving together.
In an urban environment, that's actually quite rare. when you think about most cities in the United States, um, people don't know their neighbors. Um, you could even live in an apartment building and not know the people that live right next door to you. and that is because most of our urban environments have not been designed with people in mind, with community in mind.
And so our mindset is we are, we exist to create urban. Places where people and planet thrive. and so this idea of a village, when you think about the word village, you know, for me that instills evokes emotions of, of people, of community events, of friendships, of investing in your neighborhood and what we exist to do is to create that kind of an environment in the middle of our urban cities. 
Steve Carran: That's great. So now we're gonna move on to the thought leadership industry trends section of the podcast. Excited for this. So, um, in your opinion, what emerging trends in hospitality are you seeing right now that are being shaped by the shifting consumer expectations? 
Jon Buerge: I would say that the, the, the trend that I see, um, most obvious in the hospitality industry today is the rise of the eco-conscious consumer. Um, you know, we've talked about this as a industry for a long time, but. We've seen this, this, challenge, called the intention action gap, which people say they want to make consumer decisions that are better for the planet, but then when it comes to their pocketbooks, they don't take action, and that's been the narrative in our industry for a long time, is that people say, yeah, we, you know, we do polling and we hear that our customers are looking for it, but then when we do it, we don't see that. Action taken. and I think that there are a lot of reasons why, but I think we're at a tipping point in the industry.
And that is because for, for many, many decades, climate change has been talked about as this distant crisis, as this thing that one day will take. Shape one day will impact our lives. And for, you know, the first 40 years of climate change conversation, we haven't had the proof in front of us.
And it's very hard to take action when it's, related to something that's not very personal. When it's related to saving the penguins and the Arctic, it's hard to take personal decisions into, into play. but now that climate change is starting to affect society in very real and tangible ways.
It is creating a tipping point. more and more of us, are experiencing climate change, whether it's through forest fires or floods or increment weather. There's all sorts of things that are now starting to affect our society in very real ways. And so climate change is becoming more personal. It's becoming more real.
It's come becoming more impactful. you know, 10 years ago, I never thought about air quality. When I would go outside with my kids. Today I think about that and I actually check it on my phone because before we go for a hike, I want to know, is this gonna be good or bad for my kids' lungs? and so as a result that personalization of the impacts of climate change is affecting consumer behavior in a very real way, and it's happening exponentially.
And so when we talk about how that takes shape in hotels. We've known that people have been looking for, a greener alternative to hospitality. they're looking for more eco-conscious experiences. and now we're starting to see that take shape in consumer behavior, and so I see that as a trend that is not only, very real and measurable today, but is going to become the defining, feature of our industry in many ways in the future as climate change continues to have more real impacts, um, on our industry. And so I do believe what has become kind of a, a stale conversation because it's been around for so long, now is different because of the fact that it's starting to actually, push consumers to make decisions, with their pocketbooks.
Steve Carran: Absolutely. And that air quality. It's funny, I just had that conversation with my wife less than a week ago about, we never looked at air quality when we were growing up, and now it's like we go for a hike and it's like, oh, the air quality's terrible. Today we can, it's at 145, 150. We can't go out. So good points there. 
David Millili: Well said, so is there one belief or a long held sump assumption in hospitality that you'd like to challenge?
Jon Buerge: I think for a long time the industry has evolved around the premise that predictability is of paramount importance. If you think about most big brands, their brand ethos and their sort of the cohesiveness of the brand is built around predictability. And the idea, I think is that, um, if you're traveling somewhere, you want to know what you're going to experience.
and in many ways it's been a great success. If I stay at a Marriott Hotel in Atlanta, and then I go stay at a Marriott hotel in Beijing, I can, for the most part predict what my experience is gonna be like. I think that there is absolutely a need and a demand for that kind of brand continuity and that kind of predictability, but I think that as an industry, it's gone too far.
And I think that there are a lot of travelers, a lot of demand out there for unique experiences that are uber local. I know for me, I wanna make sure that if I'm going to a new place in the world, I wanna make sure that I have a good night of sleep. I wanna make sure that the bed is comfortable. I wanna make sure that it's quiet, that I have a great shower like there are certain things that absolutely I wanna be, I want to have predict predictability with. But I think that, I wanna be able to experience a place often. Authentically. I don't want to go to Beijing and not know whether I'm in Atlanta, Detroit, or la. When I wake up in the morning, I wanna know that I'm in Beijing. And I think that as an industry we've undervalued how important it is for travelers to have authentic experiences that are rooted in place. 
Steve Carran: Absolutely. So through the opening of your two populous hotels, Denver and Seattle. They are two wildly different hotels and concepts. Denver's a new build. Seattle is an adaptive reuse. What were some of the key learnings that you had during the development of these, and is there anything that you wish you would've done differently?
Jon Buerge: Well, as you know, there are thousands of decisions you make in designing and building a hotel. And so are there, uh, things that I wish, you know, lessons learned, things that I would've done differently? Absolutely. And, and that will forever be the case. you know, I think one of the things that's so important to the brand ethos of populace is that it is rooted in its local ecosystem and its local community.
And so, you know, we think about nature. As a very diverse set of ecosystems, nature to, you know, Steve, you and I here in Colorado is, the natural ecosystems of the Rocky Mountains that has a very unique, place, very unique experience. But when you go to the Pacific Northwest and you experience nature in and around Seattle, it is very different.
I was just  a couple weeks ago in the ho Rainforest on the Olympic Peninsula talk about a wildly different natural experience than walking through an Aspen grove in the Rocky Mountains. And so when we designed the two hotels for Colorado and for Washington, we wanted them to be wildly different, just like nature's wildly different pop is also rooted in community. It's also rooted in its urban ecosystem. And so Denver is a very, very different city than Seattle. It has a different history, it has a different, economic drivers. It has a different, people and, you know, different preferences. And so as we design these two hotels, we wanted to be rooted in those local ecosystems and those local communities.
Let those experiences shape the design, shape, the food sourcing and the menu of the restaurants, shape the landscaping, um, shape the programming. All of those things needed to be unique. And so we did venture into this process with an openness to having the hotels look and feel very, very different, but bound by a common belief around a deep reverence for the natural world. and so, you know, the reason they're so different is because of the fact that they are rooted in those, in those lo locations. for Denver, you know, one thing that I think was amazing about that project and populous Denver is the architecture.
We were able to work with, a world renowned architect and genie gang, who really brought biophilic design into the forefront of the architecture. It is a building that you see from afar. you know, we were talking earlier about the state capital being right. A across the, the park from us. You walk out of the front door of the state capitol and your eyes immediately go to populace.
which is saying lot because we have the Leis Endeavor Art Museum, and we have, city hall, we have all these extraordinary buildings, and yet populous becomes this like I. Magnet, net it, design that you can't stop staring at. in Seattle, we went a very different approach. We decided to go right into the heart of historic downtown Seattle and Pioneer Square, and as a result, we, took an 130 year old building and renovated it, brought it back into its original glory.
By the nature of that, we're using a building that already exists. And so you don't have that kind of magnetic architecture on the exterior. But it created an opportunity for us to do something very, very different, which is to create a natural portal in, through this historic building into the interior, that feels almost like you're walking into a forest as you're entering into the building, and it creates a different kind of magnetism.
And so these two buildings are so different, and we made so many decisions. Based on those local, drivers, those local inspirations. and I think that, you know, your question was were there things that, we would've done differently? no, because I think each of those hotels are exactly what we wanted to create for those environments, those markets, you know, we do want to continue to grow populace and we have plans to open additional locations in other places. And one of the things that we wanted to do with these first two hotels is to show the wide aperture of this brand. We wanted to show that it could be a triangle building in the part of the civic park in Denver with, you know, iconic, eye catching architecture.
We wanted to show that it could also be just as authentically rooted in place during a historic adaptive reuse in Seattle. And to be able to show how, how wide ranging our brand can be. And then as we think about new markets and we think about new communities and ecosystems that we could, design within.
You know, we get goosebumps thinking about how fun of a process that is because they will all look totally different. And yet our hope is that as a guest in these hotels, that you know, you're in a populous hotel, even if everything looks different.
Steve Carran: Talk about being drawn to a hotel. I was by the ballpark area and saw populace, and I'm like, I need to go get a closer look at that. It's such a unique hotel. I mean, you got the white with the greenery. Like you said, it's magnetic. It draws you in. So well done. Kudos on that.
David Millili: And so take us through both hotels. Were launched as car. Urban positive hotels. So for those listening, maybe take us through what does that mean and how do you achieve that specifically?
Jon Buerge: You know, environmental stewardship is a complex, goal, and I think that it's been inundated over the last, you know, several decades with terms, with metrics, with certifications, and as a guess. Experiencing a hotel, you get lost in all that. You know, even us as developers get lost in all the ways in which you can sort of judge your performance from an environmental standpoint.
And what we have found is that the industry has really focused on energy, on energy efficiency and energy conservation, which is important. It is a critical part of addressing climate change. But it misses a big, big part of what our impact is as an industry on the health of the planet. So as we started the design process and thinking about our goals for populace, we kind of took a deep breath and said, what really is our goal here?
And what we began to realize is that one of our main objectives is, is very simple. And I think, you know, most people can understand it. We want it to truly and authentically leave the planet in a better place than we found it. If you think about that, that really broadens your perspective away from energy efficiency or lead certification or you know, whatever you might sort of.
Put in environmental stewardship in a hotel, and we started to think very, very broadly. We thought about, um, the materials we were selecting to build, to put into the buildings. We thought about, yes, we thought about energy, but we also thought about ways to celebrate nature. You know, I think that one of the things that, we don't talk enough about is the fact that climate change in some regards is about a distance from nature.
We've built our cities for the last 50, a hundred years to keep nature out.
One of the ways to create more environmental warrior is to show people the beauty of nature. And so we also wanted to, to create sort of like a celebration of nature in the design, the architecture. and so we started to look at all aspects of these buildings and their impact on the planet, both positively and negatively.
And there was a lot of ways we did that. But one of the ways we tracked it was carbon. If you think about climate change, it really kind of all distills down to, an overabundance of carbon in our atmosphere. And everything we do has a carbon footprint. buildings have a carbon footprint. How we grow our food has a carbon footprint, how we, you know, get around the cities, have a carbon footprint.
And so by thinking about that as a common element, we were able to kind of put a score to every decision we made. in Denver, for example, we knew we had to build a building out of concrete. And, concrete is arguably the most environmentally damaging invention ever created by mankind. it is an extraordinarily high carbon footprint.
And so in that. Decision. We said, well, we have to build it out of concrete and it's a very environmentally damaging, product. You know, what are our options? And so we started a, about a 12 month journey into exploring concrete and trying to understand, you know, is all concrete the same?
Are there better concrete? And, and you know, and, and higher carbon footprint cart concrete. Ultimately through that journey, we were able to identify an alternative concrete material that use utilizes fly ash, which is a byproduct, a waste product of oil and gas industry as a binding agent, as an alternative to lime, and in doing that, we were able to reduce our carbon footprint by over 40%. and, you know, that took, variances with the building code. It took, uh, structural testing, it took a lot of, exploratory work. To not only identify that product, but to actually get it implemented into our building. and we took a lot of risks in doing that, but ultimately we were able to get through all those hurdles and we were able to build populous Denver out of fly ash concrete.
It's the first time in a commercial building it's ever been used. and so all these different moves, we were able to kind of distill down to our carbon footprint. And the other thing that's interesting about carbon is that you're also able to measure the sequestration of carbon. So everything we do emits carbon, but a lot of the things that our natural systems in, in the planet sequester carbon.
When you plant a tree. It sequesters carbon into the soil. depending on how you grow food, it can sequester carbon into the soil. And so we were able to understand that there's a balance, right? There's, you're gonna be emitting carbon and you're gonna be sequestering carbon. That's true for all of society.
And so part of it was we did everything we possibly could to reduce our carbon footprint, not just in the. MEP systems, the mechanical, electrical, plumbing systems and the sort of energy efficiency of the building, but also in the materials we used and the way that we transported it, where geographically we sourced the material, all those decisions, we were able to measure and try to reduce our carbon footprint, to the smallest amount possible.
Then going back to our original goal of leaving the planet in a better place than we found it. we made the decision to commit to sequestering, to pulling more carbon than we emitted out of the, atmosphere through nature-based strategies. And so that led us to a whole variety of initiatives. you know, basically civic culture and tree planting and agricultural partnerships, not only commit to sequestering more carbon than, than we emitted, but also to measure it. And so that we could prove that we've sequestered more carbon than we've emitted. and today in, both Popul hotels, we've, sequestered more than double the carbon wheat emitted in building both buildings.
So when we talk about being carbon positive in the first carbon positive hotels in the country, it is in a whole variety of ways, but it's about limiting your carbon wherever possible, and then sequestering more than you've emitted. And in that extent, we believe that we truly have left the planet in a better place than we found it.
Steve Carran: That is awesome and very impressive. So, you know, you've obviously done a good job with sustainability at the populace hotels. What advice do you have to maybe other developers or hoteliers that are looking to build their hotel to help them be more sustainable?
Jon Buerge: Think the biggest thing is to find the through lines with the guest experience. had a lot of conversations with hoteliers, developers, real estate investors that have war stories. You know what I thought customers cared about the environmental footprint of my building. I spent all this money putting solar panels and doing, you know, all insulated glass and creating, you know, the most energy efficient hot water boilers.
And lo and behold, the guests don't care. That as a narrative that's very real in our industry today. It's very real in the hotel industry today. the problem with those initiatives is they don't positively impact the guest experience. If I go into a hotel and I take a warm shower that's been heated by natural gas in an old inefficient boiler.
It feels exactly the same as a warm shower that was heated by ultrahigh, fully electric boiler systems. And as a result, my experience isn't any different. And so I think what we've done with populace that I think is a really important lesson learned that others can look at, is that we've created an immersive experience, our guests cannot stay, cannot visit and stay at our populous hotels without deeply understanding the environmental story and, and not just understanding it, but being surrounded in a reverence for nature. it is about this like shared love of the natural world, and when you have that overwhelming, immersive experience, as a guest, you value it, you're brought into the initiative in populace where in so many buildings it's behind the scenes and the guest doesn't know about it and doesn't experience it. And so how are they gonna value it? How are they gonna, you know, have preference for something when they don't really understand that it's that much better than any other building?
And so I would say going forward, that's maybe the biggest lesson learned. Find ways to connect the guests with the investment that you've made in building and operating a building that's better for the planet.
Steve Carran: Well said, Jon. Well said. Well, Jon, we have been asking you questions this whole time, so this is where we're gonna turn the tables and let you ask David and I a question.
Jon Buerge: I want to know from you all, you've talked to some of the most inspired people in the industry, and you, and you're, you probably have your, um, hand on the pulse better than most. I'm curious, do others see the trends and the changes in the industry that we see as far as a, uh, focus on, environmental stewardship, and authentic place-based experiences?
Steve Carran: Great question. David, do you wanna take this one? Should I?
David Millili: You can start. I'll let you go first.
Steve Carran: Sounds good. I think, you know, people are talking about it. I think the younger generations, they are very, very concerned about sustainability. And I, you know, know from talking to some of them, like they will not travel to a hotel unless it's green, a sustainable hotel and I think sustainability was more of a buzzword. a few years ago now, I think hotels are finally taking it seriously and putting more of the sustainable action or words into actions for their hotel. So I, I think we're finally getting there. I don't know if a lot of hotels are taking it to your level, but I think hotels are starting to take sustainability a a little bit more seriously.
David Millili: Yeah, so I think there's, a lot of people talking about it. I haven't heard anybody really, for the most part. And, and the, the way you've described it is, is very, very it's very compelling. It feels much more real because it seems like, you know, there's always a panel about sustainability, but you don't really get anything out of it.
You just feel like there's people talking about what's wrong, not what really needs to be done. So I think that education piece is still lacking as to why we should be doing something. So just, just you saying leaving the planet in a better place, like that's great, but I think there's still a lot of people who just don't know how to do that or don't maybe care. I don't know. I think it's important, so we, we like hearing about it.
Steve Carran: Absolutely. Well, John, this was great. our producer, John, he has been sitting and listening this whole time, so we're gonna kick it over to him for one final question before we get you outta here.
Jon Bumhoffer: Yeah, I've absolutely loved this conversation. What you're saying about how you like doing the right thing by having a positive impact on the planet and people like how that should be and can be profitable. So I'm curious, you know, we, you talked about populace and the tho um, those properties, but maybe are there other examples that show of like from doing this type of work that show that Profitability of that mindset that you have and or maybe some moments that you feel like just kind of were like, yes, this is exactly, you know what we're going for, why I'm doing this.
Jon Buerge: You know, we have a lot of examples over our 20 year history of projects that have not only, um, met investor expectations, but exceeded market returns. And I'll give you one example. We developed a project in Davis, California for the University of California called West Village, west Village houses over 2000 students and uh, is a hundred percent net zero energy.
So it generates more renewable energy on site than it, uh, than it consumes. And that project we held for over 10 years, and our investors received a market setting return. For student housing. and as a result, that project has become a bit of a gold standard for other developers to look at and assess, and it's not necessarily just because of the net zero energy and the, and the, and the environmental, elements of the project. It's because it was so profitable. And so a lot of developers are looking at what are those elements? And I think that we can point very clearly to the net zero energy, position of that project as a leading contributor to the economic success of that project.
And as a result, we don't need every other student housing developer to align fully with our impact minded goals if they're trying to make the most money possible. That is, uh, is still a great motivator 'cause they see what we've done and they follow suit. And, you know, ultimately, the financial success of what we do is gonna be driven by the consumers do they value what we create? and so it's all consumer driven. And as consumers start to prioritize environmental initiatives, environmental stewardship, and the decisions they make. That's going to drive the real estate industry, the hotel industry, into that direction. And so that really starts with the consumer. And I think that what our projects have shown, over the years is that we have a pretty good sense of what the consumer is looking for. We've been able to create those products and those experiences, and we've been rewarded financially for doing that. And that becomes, the biggest impact that we've made is in how we are, showing others, how to do this. And so it's the repeatability of the projects that we've created.
David Millili: That's great. Well, that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier, Jon. This is where you can let people know how they can get in touch with you. Find out more about urban villages and more about populous hotels.
Jon Buerge: Urban Village is based in Denver, Colorado. We do projects all around the country. And, uh, the best place to reach us is through our website www.urbanvillages.com
David Millili: All right. Well that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier, the most engaged podcast in hospitality. So whether you're watching or listening, we appreciate you and I hope to be again with you soon. Thank you for joining us, Jon.
Jon Buerge: Thank you so much.