Convene Podcast Transcript
Convene Interview, ep. 17

*Note: the transcript is AI generated, excuse typos and inaccuracies

Magdalina Atanassova: This episode, we're going to unpack the biggest takeaways from Convene 4 Climate.
This is the Convene Podcast.
With me are three of the leaders that created this whole magic. At Convene 4 Climate, we have Rachael Riggs from Maritz, Tanya Popeau from PCMA, and Kit Lykketoft from Copenhagen Convention Bureau.
So thank you ladies for joining me today. Thank you. It's a real pleasure to have you.
I'm excited to talk to you and just see what inspired you and what surprised you and what practical takeaways you took away from the event.
So the first question for all of you is, were there any aha moments or surprises that you really think the industry has to hear about? And Rachael, let's start with you.
Rachael Riggs: Sure. I really loved attending Convene 4 Climate Rotterdam. Did a great job and one of the things that I learned there,
and I've known it, but it validated it, was collaboration. We need industry collaboration and that is going to take a lot of effort and it just means so much to making an impact and that's what we need to do.
Magdalina Atanassova: Kit.
Kit Lykketoft: I guess my main takeaway was that now is not the time to back down from talking about sustainable transition.
Quite the opposite. It felt very timely in Rotterdam that we were cross sector,
cross country,
having a conversation around this and also could inspire each other. Very important.
Tanya Popeau: Absolutely. So I'm going to kind of reiterate what both people have said. I think for me, obviously I come from outside of the industry and I know that a big remit was really to broaden a widened participation.
And the magic or the aha moment that you asked was really that it worked, that we had people from government, we had people from large corporate, obviously we had about 50% of the people were from the business events industry.
They came together,
they did have very thought provoking, inspiring conversations.
And I think really to both people's point,
there is a hunger and a desire for this conversation. You know, we've been maybe sustainability has heightened over the last,
what, six, seven years?
And whilst I think we need kind of new narratives, there is no sense of people,
you know, tiring or turning away.
There's a greater hunger and a desire for action.
Magdalina Atanassova: So you were the kind of the brains behind the framework of convivial climate. What were your hopes for the platform to achieve this year?
Tanya Popeau: So firstly, I should say that obviously the inaugural year happened last year and I wasn't there. So in 2024, the first C4C was in Barcelona and there were a range of brains and partners that developed Convene 4 Climate as a concept.
So it was my role this year to take it forward and obviously I worked alongside the partners to do just that.
My biggest hope really goes back to that broad conversation that we could bring together a range of different people.
And what excited me was the participant feedback. So for example, we heard the Ministry of Justice based in Netherlands and she said what she liked was really the positive conversation around action that really stimulated kind of, you know, exciting ideas that she liked equally.
I heard from Bosch, I think she's the head of Sustainable Transformational and she said post event,
obviously we know that AI is going to bring about a huge amount of sustainable transformation and advancement, but nothing can take the place of bringing people together and that cross kind of collaborative discussion and action.
And so those were the kind of positive feedback and kind of yeah responses that excited me the most.
Magdalina Atanassova: And I really like the fact that you're speaking about the positive message in sustainability, which we don't hear that much. And Rachel, I want to bring that to you because you are involved in creating a lot of tools measuring.
So what is the data telling us? Are there any positive stories that you are seeing?
Rachael Riggs: Sure, absolutely. And there's a lot of great stories to be told and shared and a platform like Convene 4 Climate is a great place to share it for us at merits.
We, we have a tool that we co created with a company called Reduce2 and we pilot tested it with one of our biggest fintech clients out there. They came to Convene 4 Climate MasterCard and, and she shared our story and it was to watch people react to how we have changed.
The way they look at how they design their events was pretty spectacular. They started with their CEO meeting when I wanted to pilot test our tool and they said here, try this with this event.
So it couldn't have been any higher stakes.
And now we're doing their entire portfolio of meetings and it all comes down to education and educating the planners on how to design events differently.
Magdalina Atanassova: I love it. Kit, are you seeing event planners designing really events differently when they come to Copenhagen?
Kit Lykketoft: Well, at least I'm seeing that they, they are happy to learn that we have tools that they can actually use in planning. For example, we have sustainability guide that they can use pre event but also post event also measure the impact of the actual event.
When they see if we do this, if we reduce for example red meat, then the impact is such at our bottom line that's actually very positive. And a lot of planners are looking for help for resources and maybe they don't know where to start,
but there are so many resources out there.
Of course Convene 4 Climate is a platform, but also the AI platform. She where you have vetted information from the industry to the industry,
tools, info calculators,
you have it all in one platform. And I really want people to know about it because it's such a useful resource.
Magdalina Atanassova: I'll definitely put the link in the show notes of this episode so people can get a quick access because it's important to share that.
And Tanya,
maybe I'm throwing a new curveball here, but did you use any of those measurement tools for convenience for climate? Have you seen any change from the first to the second edition?
Tanya Popeau: What we did do,
the Postillion Hotel who were one of our partners,
they have a major focus and a remit on sustainability.
So for example for the entire rent it was plant based food.
They did their own measurement. So for example they said this is how much, you know, we reduced kind of carbon emissions by providing, you know, this kind of notion around transport.
I mean holding it within Rotterdam itself. You know, it's a really walkable city.
Obviously there's the train stations are quite close by. You can get from Eurostar etc from you know, various destinations. Of course people flew in that, that is the nature of business events.
So to answer your question candidly, we didn't do our own personal measurements although as you know we have our own internal kind of goals that we all focus on and the events team work very closely on focusing on for all our events.
But the partner Postilion hotel produced a huge impact report to demonstrate by taking the actions that they did from the way that we designed and I know the events team a massive kind of shout out to the events team.
So you talk about sustainability by design. So the fact that the conference before Convening EMEA was held and then C4C directly after and we use exactly the same event content, event design setup, exactly the same, that's going to save us a huge amount because we're not redesigning, we're not changing,
we're not adding, you know, multiple amounts of materials and resources in so very much the partner and working in conjunction with us, we ensure that sustainability is embedded throughout everything we do.
Magdalina Atanassova: So we hear often that there is a gap between the ambition and the action in the industry.
What do you think is the barrier there?
What's stopping event planners to get to the action part quicker?
Kit, let's start with you.
Kit Lykketoft: I think it's a very complex Question, actually, because it depends on really who you're talking to.
We just had a discussion earlier today about aligning data throughout the industry.
That is super important. But I think for some people, there's a step before that that is still about mindset, that is about,
you know, why should I do anything when everybody else doesn't do anything?
Or as I mentioned before, where do I start? It's a jungle out there. So I think that it's dependent on, you know, where you are at in that journey towards it,
what the biggest barrier is. But I think that we that are engaged in it, we also have a responsibility for the group that is not on board here.
Rachael Riggs: Well, I think it boils down to education.
Education, to me is the biggest thing that we could do as an industry to make an impact because there's a lot of different tools out there, there's a lot of different resources you can go to,
but how do you actually activate that?
And that is not known as well as ordering food and beverage. Right.
Magdalina Atanassova: And.
Rachael Riggs: But that sustainability conversation has to happen before you ever order that food.
So it's, it's where in the process and how to do that. And it takes understanding and education to figure that out.
Magdalina Atanassova: It's surprising to me because I've been in the industry for a bit over 20 years and I feel like we should have been past that stage of,
you know, just getting familiar with the topic of sustainability by now.
For me,
we should have been like light years ahead of where we actually are.
Why do you think that happened? Because those conversations on the topic seems to be going up and down in terms of interest.
Why do you think that's happening in the industry? Rachel?
Rachael Riggs: I think that's a really good question. I don't know if I have an answer because I don't understand it either. But I know that I am very personally passionate about it.
I know merits is we're trying to move the needle within our own organization, but we're also trying to help by sitting at the table with Kit, Tanya, PCMA, the SANCBE organization, to try to figure it out, because I'm not sure we know the answer to that.
But I can tell you, in my role, I see a lot of other industries because I lead the sustainability reporting for our company. And there are a lot of industries out there that are struggling,
but there are some that are really spot on.
And those are the ones I really want to watch and learn from. And I think it's going to take outside collaboration to bring them in to help us.
Kit Lykketoft: Yeah, like that I guess the answer to your question was it's not simple again,
but it takes collaboration to get something done within this field and it needs to start somewhere. And I mean, convenience for climate didn't come out of the blue. That took a lot of conversations and collaboration across the board to actually make that happen.
A coalition of the willing, if you want,
because it started with the strategic alliance of national convention boroughs in Europe having a conversation about a common plan for the sustainable transition,
where this was just one element. We really wanted a platform where the conversation could happen because it wasn't there.
It was happening in little corners at various events. But we wanted one platform where that could take place and we couldn't create that alone. So PCMA was a natural collaborator on making this happen.
And the same with the sustainable hub for events that I mentioned before. It was part of the plan that we wanted, a zoom,
a platform if you want,
that had all the resources,
but we couldn't do that alone. So we collaborated with Gevme and with Carbon Net Zero Event.
So it's also about reaching out to find who want to be part of the different initiatives that you do.
Magdalina Atanassova: Yeah,
it's true. What I'm hearing both of you saying is that the industry is lacking unity and maybe that's why what I imagined 20 years ago that would happen today is not happening.
And Tania, that brings you in the perfect time and place because you brought a lot of different frameworks and people from outside of our industry to inspire us and to show us ways that we can do it.
Because we don't have to reinvent the wheel. Right. Things are already there. So what frameworks you really think the industry needs to adopt from those other players?
Tanya Popeau: So I would say,
I think firstly, everybody's really open to learning from outside industries, which is really exciting because sometimes industries can be very closed and siloed. So I think it's. For me it's less about frameworks in the sense that we're actually in discussion about developing or supporting or endorsing the development of industry wide frameworks that have come from the industry.
Because the business events industry is of course unique,
but I think mindsets and insights. So I led a session on innovation and I think that. And obviously Kit has a major background and, and Rachel and innovation too. So I think one of the biggest areas that we need to understand or focus more on is how we innovate within sustainability.
So I think you started off saying sustainability can be seen as quite negative and I think that's really how it's seen, it's seen as risk, it's seen as burden, it's seen as compliant, it's labor intensive and it's expensive.
And I think all of that needs to be switched on its head.
And certainly I think PCMA, we see sustainability as a catalyst for innovation,
for sustainable growth, for transformation, and something that can have a positive impact on productivity within your organizations.
So that mindset shift in itself is something that I think needs to be adopted.
And in addition to that, it's learning the skills. I think I remember Kit saying on the panel in C4C, you said, she's looking at me like, what did I say?
Kit Lykketoft: What are you going to say?
Magdalina Atanassova: What are you going to say?
Tanya Popeau: And I think they asked you a similar, a similar question. And you said employing those innovative skills, prototyping was one of the things that you talked about.
We, and also to quote one of our keynote speakers at C4C,
we do not know how to achieve sustainable transformation over the next 10, 20 years, otherwise we would have done that. And that's the same for every single industry out there.
We are all. I've heard industry leaders say that we are in a black room right now and we are trying to find the way out of it.
That requires innovation, it requires vision, it requires testing. We're going to fail. We need to, you know, try new ideas and continuously be on that iterative process.
And, and one of the keynotes says what creative innovation allows you to do is imagine and visualize the future that doesn't exist yet.
And that's where we are. So it's going to take bold leadership, bold action, innovation, and it's those kinds of insights, so that kind of innovative framework to bring it back to your question that we need in order to get to the next 10, 20 years.
Magdalina Atanassova: And I'm sure that the one thing that you just missed is the stakeholders, right? All the different bits and pieces, because the industry is made out of all those different players and you brought them together.
So what did you hear from those conversations happening during Convene 4 Climate? And that's for all of you.
Kit Lykketoft: I agree with all you just said.
But also what came out of the conversations was amongst a lot of other stuff that we just need to try.
If we don't try,
then nothing will happen and then we might try and fail, as you say, but that doesn't matter because then we try it and then we go try something else.
And that's why it's so important to have that space and get out of the black box. And maybe a glimmer of light somewhere and then just test out different solutions and that can be small scale.
I don't believe that we can get the entire meetings industry around the table at the same time. But I do believe that smaller groups, smaller collaborations can show the way and then get others on board.
I think that's how it's going to go.
Rachael Riggs: Well, I think we have a really great example of collaboration at its best is the sustainable Hospitality alliance. And it was 10 years,
12 years ago now that the hotel chains globally came together and they said we and I focus obviously a lot on measurement. But they said came together and said it doesn't matter what flag flies on this property.
A meeting room is going to have the same emissions as a meeting room in the other hotels.
So they have a standard of measurement around that for meeting rooms and sleeping rooms. And so when we do our calculations for our clients, those are if we don't get that directly from the hotel, we can go to that standard and that agreed upon framework.
And,
and so my hope is that we as an industry leverage those pieces and then create those standards for the other pieces that are missing. And I think that's the opportunity here.
And I think if all the hotels can come to agree on this, then a change globally, I mean the rest of the industry can really follow suit. And it's happened in the pharmaceutical industry too.
There's believe it or not, and we have a service a lot of pharmaceutical companies. And if the industry of pharmaceutical companies can come together and create a sustainable purchasing alliance or a sustainable.
There's so many things I could go down a rabbit hole. But if they can do it, we can do it. I mean we are smart people.
Magdalina Atanassova: Yeah. And again, it comes down to unifying the industry. Right. And speaking of alliances, Kit, you mentioned it, the Strategic Alliance in Europe.
Can you share what came out of it? I mean, how are the conversations now different that the alliance is, you know, is there and is facilitating.
Rachael Riggs: Right.
Kit Lykketoft: So the alliance is now 30 national CVBs collaborating across Europe,
which is in itself an achievement, I would say. And we have collaborated on all sorts of stuff coming through. Covid,
how did the market look? And then latest,
the common sustainability plan.
And you know, people ask, but are you not competitors? Yes, of course we are competitors. But sustainability is not a competition. It's an obligation that we all have and everybody agrees on that.
And this is how we could agree on a quite ambitious but also quite tangible plan of what we wanted to happen in Europe.
And among the ambitions we have is of Course that it doesn't stay in Europe.
It's not built to stay in Europe. It's built to be an example and we hope that people will steal away of the activities that we have been activating,
including Convene 4 Climate. I mean, it's not like meant to be for Europeans only at all.
Magdalina Atanassova: Tanya, is that whole idea of unifying the industry kind of clicking with you as well in terms of coming for climate?
Tanya Popeau: Actually, I think what is more going to drive change is when we see a few organizations, which I know is happening,
but maybe more visible organizations step up to say this is a template that we used and you can adopt it.
So a bit like what, you know, you both said, but in terms of the idea of stealing and borrowing, that needs to happen more. I know that you've worked with certain organizations where certain people are leading,
so obviously we just come out of a conversation. And also what was, you know, a big area that was written in the report is the necessity for case studies,
is the necessity for benchmarking. So metrics are important. And I think obviously we had big corporates there. There's a huge, huge focus on measurement, which is important.
But to me, what's more important is show me what's working,
show me how you're doing this and you know exactly the steps so that I can recreate that within my own organization.
I think there's a real fear around and I'm talking broadly here.
Competition is natural within business.
As you said, we cannot continue to compete with sustainability.
That doesn't mean that you lose your competitive edge if you, if we come together to understand how you're going to drive sustainable transformation. So I think it's less about, as I said, I think we need greater visibility of those organizations, businesses that are driving change, you know, really making the impact,
doing the best work, really.
And then more people will copy.
Magdalina Atanassova: So it's more about giving than trying to get something out of it. Right.
Tanya Popeau: Look, business is business. I think business is always going to be competitive and profitable.
But I think so if I, if I say in a slightly, a different way to what you just said in terms of giving, I think that organizations should be incentivized to share.
And I know that was one of the ideas that also came out of C4C Rotterdam.
Magdalina Atanassova: So.
Tanya Popeau: And maybe that's a role that we play. But what do I get if I share more? Is it, you know, prestige? Is it brand value?
And you know, how can we help do that?
Magdalina Atanassova: Can you share a bit more about the report that you mentioned?
Tanya Popeau: Yeah, absolutely. So look, there were, as you know, there were multiple organizations in the room and we had three key pillars and one was around business model innovation. So the idea of transforming your own business model so that drives profit and change at the same time.
We also had an area just on cross collaboration to understand how this can happen more effectively.
And we also had a third key area on technology and resources and materials and just how that can drive change, which I know is obviously a major. These are all major pillars that I took from the first C4C from the C4C foundation and there was a force group on what's missing,
what else do we need to focus on? And the audience converged around those four pillars really.
And so what I want, what the report was, was a culmination of all of those ideas. And obviously we had so many different people. The idea was that you could take it, read it, skim through it quite quickly to see some of those ideas and it was up to you what you could take from it in terms of your organization.
But we as an organization, so PCMA C4C are in the process of distilling that now to understand what two to three ideas do we take forward for the future.
Magdalina Atanassova: Wonderful. So what does long term success look like for a Convene 4 Climate from your perspective?
Kit Lykketoft: It's a really good question actually because,
and we also discussed that today because what is long term? We're still experimenting,
we are still trying to find out what is the best way to move this forward. Now we started it, we would like for it to become a movement, we would like for it to be part of everything that we do in the industry.
But next step,
it's a matter of conversation. So we need to keep talking to each other.
And in terms of what is good business,
I would have to say that in the long run it's only good business to take good care of the planet. Right. That is the bottom line.
Yeah. So yeah,
Rachel.
Rachael Riggs: Well, I think that it's, it's really interesting to,
to have this conversation because I think to Kit's point,
we can't define success right now because sustainability changes so quickly in terms of what is needed the here and now.
Magdalina Atanassova: Right.
Rachael Riggs: You have a fire over here that needs attention over here, right. You have a flood over here, you need attention. But what's that preventative position that we're trying to take is the question.
And I'm not sure we can give that answer because in my world what has happened in the last three years is changed exponentially in how we have to report our clients are expecting higher and higher scores in our sustainability ratings.
And so I have to focus on that. So it's hard to figure out where this is going to go.
And I think we all struggle with that because this is not something that we've ever dealt with with in human history.
Right. And so it's,
it's really hard question to answer.
Tanya Popeau: I'm going to be bold and I'm going to answer and say for me,
we need, and this is, I think, as an industry, but equally, you know, in a broader sense, we have to move from talking into action. So I would say in the next three to five years, I would like,
you know, stakeholders within the business events industry, those attending C4C events and also those broadly, you know, understanding, receiving information from C4C to be turning the conversations, the ideas into actions, into tangible actions on the ground so that they can clearly say this is, I attended this event or I listened to this podcast or I'm a part of the movement,
whatever that means. And as a result of this, I have implemented this and it's led to environmental and or social impacts. We have to, we cannot be here in three years time just having a conversation and not being able to answer that, that question.
I think that's going to come through innovation, through testing and trialing. We have to turn this into tangible, practical actions on the ground.
Magdalina Atanassova: I love it.
Kit Lykketoft: Yeah. But, yeah, of course, the end goal is ultimately the actual transition. Yes, we, I think we all agree on that. Yeah.
Rachael Riggs: And I think also we need to have an understanding of our impact as an industry on the environment.
I would really like to see that.
I would really like to see the events.
Several years ago, many years ago, we didn't understand the economic impact of our industry.
So why don't we use that model and shift to find the environmental impact of our industry on the earth?
That would be very cool.
Magdalina Atanassova: Yeah. Again, unifying the industry, finding common ground. So was there anything we didn't mention and we definitely should before we wrap up?
Kit Lykketoft: Well, I guess we could continue for a long time, so. No.
Rachael Riggs: Well, I think it's important to note that we've all had conversations here and that we're talking through and it's not something that just sitting there and boiling. It's, it's. The conversations are happening and the conversations are robust and we're really trying to put specific tactics to it.
So I think that, you know,
every time PCMA gets together,
it moves it along further, but we're also doing it as the year goes on.
Thanks to Tanya.
Tanya Popeau: I would like to say, look, we hear from the industry. They're really open to collaboration. I'm hoping that people are listening to this podcast and it's not just a conversation between four people.
And so I will say my door is open. Please get in touch. You know, in terms of wanting to collaborate, engage, work with us, attend our events,
get involved in the movement, we're really, really keen to kind of involve as many people as possible. So we welcome your thoughts and ideas and engagement.
Magdalina Atanassova: Well, that wonderful end to our conversations. Thank you ladies for being on the podcast.
Rachael Riggs: Thank you.
Tanya Popeau: Thank you for having us.
Magdalina Atanassova: Remember to subscribe to the Convene Podcast on your favorite listening platform to stay updated with our latest episodes. For further industry insights from the Convene team, head over to PCMA.org/convene. My name is Maggie. Stay inspired. Keep inspiring. And until next time.