WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:01.740 Hey, everybody. 00:00:01.740 --> 00:00:06.360 Welcome to a bonus episode of how I built it. 00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:12.030 This episode is a bonus episode because it's actually most of the replay of 00:00:12.060 --> 00:00:14.160 a live stream I did over on YouTube. 00:00:14.190 --> 00:00:15.690 I'll link it in the show notes. 00:00:16.050 --> 00:00:17.880 Uh, in the description for this video. 00:00:18.810 --> 00:00:20.010 I did clean it up a little bit. 00:00:20.010 --> 00:00:23.700 You know, I removed like the shout outs to commenters and things like that. 00:00:23.700 --> 00:00:29.610 But, uh, this is a conversation between Ronnie Bert of automatic and myself. 00:00:29.970 --> 00:00:33.540 On understanding AI's role in online course creation. 00:00:33.570 --> 00:00:37.320 Ronnie has a background in education. 00:00:38.160 --> 00:00:38.820 So much Southern. 00:00:38.820 --> 00:00:40.620 He mentioned MOOCs, which is I think cool. 00:00:40.860 --> 00:00:44.640 Uh, I've obviously been a long time educator across a number of mediums. 00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:48.480 And, uh, Ronnie is also a, the business lead, a business leader, 00:00:48.510 --> 00:00:51.780 automatic who oversees development of the sensei LMS plugin. 00:00:52.140 --> 00:00:55.290 This episode is brought to you this live stream as well 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:58.080 was brought to you by sensei. 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:02.370 Uh, so if you are looking for a great LMS plugin for WordPress, 00:01:02.910 --> 00:01:08.730 That gives you quizzes and direct integration with woo commerce and 00:01:08.730 --> 00:01:10.170 heavy use of the block editor. 00:01:10.770 --> 00:01:13.020 I there's not another plugin I can recommend. 00:01:13.170 --> 00:01:17.490 So check out sensei, you can get 20% off at Halle belt slash sensei. 00:01:17.490 --> 00:01:22.830 That's S E N S E I, but the topics that we cover managing emails for 00:01:22.830 --> 00:01:27.210 your online courses, AI's role in assisting with online course creation. 00:01:27.750 --> 00:01:30.150 Sensei's upcoming AI quiz generator. 00:01:30.570 --> 00:01:32.610 And a few other things around. 00:01:32.850 --> 00:01:37.350 Uh, AI, philosophically and what it means for the future. 00:01:37.770 --> 00:01:39.030 Of online course creation. 00:01:39.030 --> 00:01:44.610 So I hope you enjoy this conversation between me and Ronnie Bert. 00:01:45.060 --> 00:01:48.300 And without further ado, let's get to the intro. 00:01:48.630 --> 00:01:49.680 And then the interview 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:55.309 Joe: Hey everybody, and welcome to How I Built It, the podcast where you get free 00:01:55.779 --> 00:01:57.859 coaching calls from successful creators. 00:01:58.249 --> 00:02:03.019 Each week you get actionable advice on how you can build a better creator 00:02:03.019 --> 00:02:08.329 business to increase revenue and establish yourself as an authority in your field. 00:02:08.869 --> 00:02:11.099 I'm your host, Joe Casabona. 00:02:11.179 --> 00:02:12.319 Now let's get to it. 00:02:14.239 --> 00:02:16.394 So, so let's get into managing emails. 00:02:16.394 --> 00:02:18.404 And this is, this is something that. 00:02:19.419 --> 00:02:23.459 I don't think enough people think about until it becomes a problem. 00:02:23.459 --> 00:02:30.539 So like for me, um, I had, uh, a membership site set up with, uh, I think 00:02:30.539 --> 00:02:37.049 it was WooCommerce memberships that would, um, automatically register new 00:02:37.049 --> 00:02:39.149 members in all of my Learn dash courses. 00:02:39.289 --> 00:02:42.209 And I was like, yeah, this is exactly what I want. 00:02:42.419 --> 00:02:48.809 But what I also had was, uh, an automation, um, inside of 00:02:48.809 --> 00:02:49.979 Learn Dash called Follow Up. 00:02:50.039 --> 00:02:53.429 It was like an add-on called follow up emails at the time where you 00:02:53.429 --> 00:02:58.739 can send emails to, uh, students based on actions they take, right? 00:02:58.739 --> 00:03:03.569 So when they register, when they complete after this lesson, if they haven't 00:03:03.569 --> 00:03:05.159 logged in for a week or whatever, right? 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:07.709 So any, any of these things can kick off an email. 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:13.919 And so I had one welcoming them to the course, except I had it for every course. 00:03:14.714 --> 00:03:18.584 And so when they got registered for every course, they got an email, 00:03:18.584 --> 00:03:20.654 a discreet email for every course. 00:03:20.804 --> 00:03:24.704 Um, I had about 10 courses on the site at the time, and I also, they 00:03:24.704 --> 00:03:29.744 also got their, uh, receipt and they got their welcome to the membership. 00:03:29.744 --> 00:03:37.994 And so their first experience was getting 12 emails by making one purchase. 00:03:38.444 --> 00:03:42.554 Uh, and I just never thought about it, right, because I, I 00:03:42.614 --> 00:03:46.484 plugged and played a few things and things work as I tested them. 00:03:46.484 --> 00:03:49.334 Except, you know, the secret is that my user was already 00:03:49.334 --> 00:03:50.474 registered for every course. 00:03:51.404 --> 00:03:52.934 Uh, so I just tested the payment gateway. 00:03:52.934 --> 00:03:59.864 So, um, let's, let's talk a little bit about this and uh, and email reminders 00:03:59.864 --> 00:04:02.894 and things like that, because again, I think like an online course is, 00:04:03.614 --> 00:04:08.174 um, you can have horror stories like mine, but you can also create a really 00:04:08.179 --> 00:04:11.834 good experience for the learner if you have those set up the right way. 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:17.999 Ronnie: I mean, some things that come to mind is, first, I think we all think 00:04:17.999 --> 00:04:20.429 that there's email fatigue, right? 00:04:20.429 --> 00:04:22.079 I mean, email fatigue is real. 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:26.789 We are inundated by most of us, probably hundreds of emails a day. 00:04:27.209 --> 00:04:33.509 And, um, you know, as a result we're seeing open rates on email, like 00:04:33.509 --> 00:04:38.579 mass marketing email list, maybe going down, um, and things like that. 00:04:38.579 --> 00:04:46.259 But if someone's interested in your course, or like, we do actually read a lot 00:04:46.259 --> 00:04:47.789 of the emails that are sent to us, right? 00:04:48.329 --> 00:04:53.249 And so I, I just, what I'm getting at is like, I caution people again 00:04:53.249 --> 00:04:57.599 saying like, well, emails don't matter because no one's gonna open them. 00:04:57.599 --> 00:05:00.629 Or I, I'm afraid of sending too, too many emails. 00:05:01.019 --> 00:05:02.009 Like if they're engaged in your. 00:05:03.374 --> 00:05:05.714 They're gonna wanna see that email, see what's next. 00:05:05.714 --> 00:05:09.824 It, it's like the best way really, that we have the best tool that we have 00:05:10.304 --> 00:05:14.144 of communicating directly with those people that have enrolled in real time. 00:05:14.204 --> 00:05:17.324 Like when, when they need some information. 00:05:18.044 --> 00:05:21.104 So things that we've done is, um, first of all, like, you know, I've 00:05:21.104 --> 00:05:24.614 been around WordPress long enough to know WordPress isn't built 00:05:24.614 --> 00:05:27.194 to be an email management tool. 00:05:27.764 --> 00:05:28.154 Right? 00:05:28.484 --> 00:05:33.044 And depending on when your host and the configurations there, like the 00:05:33.044 --> 00:05:39.464 deliverability of emails sent via WordPress can, can vary a ton, you know, 00:05:39.464 --> 00:05:44.774 on if you're in a shared environment, that IP might be flagged and more likely 00:05:44.774 --> 00:05:49.334 to end up in spam folders or just the way that the email is written more likely to 00:05:49.339 --> 00:05:51.134 be flagged to spam or not be received. 00:05:51.134 --> 00:05:56.924 We also have just recently added some pretty big integrations with Mail Poet and 00:05:56.924 --> 00:06:02.264 with Automate Wu, which both in different ways can help with customizing the emails. 00:06:02.384 --> 00:06:07.184 Mail poet works really well to help with deliver deliverability issues with email. 00:06:08.114 --> 00:06:12.224 Um, also, like you mentioned, you know, S M T P, depending on your host, they 00:06:12.224 --> 00:06:16.394 might have things in place that can help help there, but it's something to look 00:06:16.394 --> 00:06:19.844 into if you're relying on these emails, you know, making sure that they're 00:06:19.849 --> 00:06:21.854 delivered and not showing up in spam. 00:06:22.514 --> 00:06:26.744 And so when we are adding email tools in, we're trying to add in in ways 00:06:26.744 --> 00:06:32.054 that we can like, Do everything that we can to make the spam Gods happy. 00:06:32.174 --> 00:06:37.544 And also don't feel bad about like, um, not being able to 00:06:37.544 --> 00:06:38.804 keep your emails outta spam. 00:06:38.804 --> 00:06:42.794 I'm a big Google, like fanboy, I guess, for lack of a better word. 00:06:42.824 --> 00:06:42.914 Mm-hmm. 00:06:43.154 --> 00:06:48.284 I'm in all the Google groups and, uh, like only use Android products and everything. 00:06:48.284 --> 00:06:48.854 Pretty much. 00:06:49.514 --> 00:06:53.594 I get emails all the time from Google itself that end up in my spam folder in 00:06:53.714 --> 00:06:55.274 Gmail, which is like a Google service. 00:06:55.274 --> 00:06:58.784 So if Google can't figure out how to send me emails that don't get marked 00:06:58.784 --> 00:07:01.094 by spam, you know, I don't feel so bad. 00:07:01.124 --> 00:07:03.344 It's, it's a complex issue, but, 00:07:03.374 --> 00:07:04.244 Joe: um, yeah. 00:07:04.244 --> 00:07:06.344 That's such, that's such a good point, right. 00:07:06.349 --> 00:07:07.664 It's it's worth looking into though. 00:07:07.664 --> 00:07:08.024 Yeah. 00:07:08.804 --> 00:07:08.984 Yeah. 00:07:10.484 --> 00:07:10.964 Awesome. 00:07:10.964 --> 00:07:11.984 And you mentioned male poet. 00:07:12.194 --> 00:07:15.434 Male poet came into the automatic fold a couple years ago, I think. 00:07:15.434 --> 00:07:15.704 Right. 00:07:16.304 --> 00:07:18.194 Ronnie: Yeah, I don't remember exactly when. 00:07:18.194 --> 00:07:22.604 And it also, you know, is, uh, works really closely with, with 00:07:22.604 --> 00:07:25.814 WooCommerce and automating all your store purchases and stuff there, and 00:07:25.814 --> 00:07:28.364 just making those, those look better. 00:07:28.454 --> 00:07:36.134 Um, so what we've done is now you can, um, you automatically get a mail poet 00:07:36.134 --> 00:07:40.364 list for everyone that's in a course or that's in a sensei group mm-hmm. 00:07:40.424 --> 00:07:43.844 So that you can send out mass emails or you can use some of their 00:07:43.844 --> 00:07:49.334 automation tools, like, uh, I mean, just a whole bunch of different 00:07:49.394 --> 00:07:50.834 possibilities that it opens up. 00:07:50.834 --> 00:07:54.374 You can send an email based on if they purchased a specific product in the 00:07:54.374 --> 00:07:56.294 past or something like that to a course. 00:07:56.684 --> 00:07:57.074 Yeah. 00:07:57.079 --> 00:07:58.454 You, you can get pretty creative. 00:07:58.814 --> 00:07:59.774 Joe: That's, that's awesome. 00:07:59.774 --> 00:08:01.304 And I mean, that makes perfect sense, right? 00:08:01.304 --> 00:08:05.864 Because I think, again, one of the things that, you know, I mean, I've been in 00:08:05.864 --> 00:08:08.234 the WordPress space since like 2004. 00:08:09.179 --> 00:08:14.309 So like before WordPress had pages, like, it was ju it was literally just a blog 00:08:14.309 --> 00:08:15.719 when I first started using WordPress. 00:08:16.139 --> 00:08:21.119 Um, and you know, and, and, and the people in the WordPress space and, 00:08:21.119 --> 00:08:23.579 and developers and agencies, like they would do this piece mill thing. 00:08:23.609 --> 00:08:27.749 But I think especially moving into the creator economy, which is who I'm talking 00:08:27.749 --> 00:08:32.159 to mostly now, um, they're not hiring an agency to set up their online store. 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:32.399 Right. 00:08:32.429 --> 00:08:36.059 And they're not, and so these are integrations that 00:08:36.059 --> 00:08:37.019 they need to think about. 00:08:37.019 --> 00:08:40.739 And I mean, to woo commerce's credit, especially like the 00:08:40.739 --> 00:08:42.599 onboarding process is really good. 00:08:42.659 --> 00:08:46.919 I think it's really good, at least, um, someone who's used a lot of WordPress 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:51.659 plugins and most are just like, if there's nothing when you install the 00:08:51.659 --> 00:08:55.019 plugin, I either think like, well, there's nothing to do with just 00:08:55.019 --> 00:08:57.779 doing its thing, or like, now I've gotta hunt down the settings page. 00:08:57.779 --> 00:09:00.809 But like WooCommerce I think does a really good job of like putting 00:09:00.814 --> 00:09:02.939 things front and center and, and like, you know, you probably need 00:09:02.939 --> 00:09:04.619 this like tax calculation, whatever. 00:09:05.069 --> 00:09:11.459 Um, and so, Having tools that integrate like that are, um, I think super 00:09:11.459 --> 00:09:16.229 important and male poet, full disclosure, they years ago sponsored my podcast. 00:09:16.409 --> 00:09:21.719 Um, but uh, you know, I think they were, they're doing a really good job of that. 00:09:24.719 --> 00:09:24.899 Ronnie: Yeah. 00:09:24.899 --> 00:09:28.829 And I think it's this connection piece of getting all these tools, 00:09:28.829 --> 00:09:32.009 like we want to play nicely with, with everything we can, with membership 00:09:32.009 --> 00:09:36.389 plugins, with other mail services besides mail poet and all that too. 00:09:36.419 --> 00:09:40.659 Cuz that's the beauty of the ecosystem that we're in is that, you know, 00:09:40.659 --> 00:09:44.009 you get to choose what you need and what works for you at that time 00:09:44.009 --> 00:09:45.839 and not pigeonholed into one thing. 00:09:46.859 --> 00:09:47.879 Joe: Yeah, absolutely. 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:49.439 You get to, you get to choose your service. 00:09:49.499 --> 00:09:55.049 Um, so let's, uh, let's move into the, the main event here, right? 00:09:55.054 --> 00:09:57.419 There's, uh, you know, enough dilly dialing. 00:09:57.809 --> 00:10:01.229 Um, let's talk about ai. 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:03.239 Let's talk about AI a little bit. 00:10:03.884 --> 00:10:07.214 First from like a, a philosophical standpoint, right? 00:10:07.214 --> 00:10:11.354 And then we'll get into kind of the practical applications of course creation. 00:10:11.414 --> 00:10:13.514 Uh, you know, thinking about it for a couple minutes, I think 00:10:13.514 --> 00:10:18.104 probably what I use it for in podcasting is very similar to how 00:10:18.109 --> 00:10:19.184 it could be used in course creation. 00:10:19.189 --> 00:10:21.314 But I'm really curious to hear what, what you have to say about that. 00:10:21.319 --> 00:10:25.904 But again, um, what is your personal philosophy? 00:10:26.594 --> 00:10:27.044 I mean, that, that's 00:10:27.434 --> 00:10:29.954 Ronnie: kinda why I reached out to you, because this is why I'm developing 00:10:29.954 --> 00:10:32.864 it, and that's like the first thing off the bat, I have done nothing 00:10:32.864 --> 00:10:38.234 but listened to dozens and dozens of podcasts from experts on this right? 00:10:38.264 --> 00:10:39.794 Over the last couple of months. 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:46.544 And I, I don't, um, I mean, none of us are experts because this doesn't exist yet. 00:10:46.934 --> 00:10:49.334 We don't really know what the potential is gonna be. 00:10:49.844 --> 00:10:52.094 We don't really know, you know, where this is ending up. 00:10:52.184 --> 00:10:57.824 But I have to say what I want instead of a philosophy, what I hope we get out of 00:10:57.824 --> 00:11:04.529 this is, I don't want us to get to a place where the robots, the AI, is writing our 00:11:04.529 --> 00:11:09.599 entire course for us, writing an entire blog post for us, and we just blindly 00:11:09.599 --> 00:11:14.369 like hit, publish and run students through that course or something like that. 00:11:14.699 --> 00:11:17.129 I think I've already seen, we have people doing that. 00:11:17.129 --> 00:11:21.089 They're like, oh, I can go create 10 courses this weekend, copy 00:11:21.089 --> 00:11:24.779 paste it in, sell it, and you know, try to make a quick buck. 00:11:26.129 --> 00:11:33.209 Um, you know, the downside of that is, well, first of all, AI is still sometimes 00:11:33.209 --> 00:11:36.119 giving you, you know, bad information. 00:11:36.659 --> 00:11:38.129 Um, it's hallucinating. 00:11:38.129 --> 00:11:40.709 It's, you know, telling you things that are not necessarily true. 00:11:40.709 --> 00:11:44.939 So we first, you know, we need to be mindful of that, but that's 00:11:44.939 --> 00:11:47.759 not gonna be an engaging course. 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:56.099 I, I, I think a lot about course creators and I believe a million percent that like, 00:11:57.389 --> 00:12:01.169 Putting people through courses, you know, having a bunch of courses available for 00:12:01.169 --> 00:12:05.669 people to sign up for, learn on their own pace, at their own time, things 00:12:05.669 --> 00:12:09.449 they're excited about and interesting in like, that's not going anywhere. 00:12:09.449 --> 00:12:11.399 It's a good industry to be in. 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:15.179 It's, it's really a needed thing for the world really. 00:12:15.179 --> 00:12:21.209 And, but if we have a whole bunch of really bad, low quality courses out 00:12:21.209 --> 00:12:24.959 there, and that's someone's first experience as a student mm-hmm. 00:12:25.259 --> 00:12:28.289 Like, they're way less likely to ever go try again. 00:12:28.289 --> 00:12:33.329 And, um, I think we saw that with MOOCs like 10 years ago. 00:12:33.329 --> 00:12:36.419 The massive online open courses or whatever they were called. 00:12:36.424 --> 00:12:36.449 Right. 00:12:36.669 --> 00:12:39.269 The universities were rolling out left and right. 00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:44.609 They were not good learning experiences for the most part because they were thrown 00:12:44.614 --> 00:12:49.589 together quickly and they just tried to like convert a textbook into the course. 00:12:50.729 --> 00:12:52.679 Millions of people signed up for these things. 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:56.909 The completion rate was like sometimes like 1% or something. 00:12:56.909 --> 00:12:56.999 Right. 00:12:56.999 --> 00:12:58.199 Like really low. 00:12:59.009 --> 00:13:00.839 No one signed up for 'em, A second one. 00:13:00.839 --> 00:13:01.079 Right. 00:13:01.079 --> 00:13:02.879 Cuz they didn't have a great first experience. 00:13:03.539 --> 00:13:03.869 Joe: Yeah. 00:13:03.869 --> 00:13:07.199 And gosh, that's such, that's such a throwback that we, we 00:13:07.199 --> 00:13:10.209 talked about that when I worked in higher ed like two years ago. 00:13:10.209 --> 00:13:10.369 Yeah. 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:16.859 Um, first of all, I'm a New York Italian and MOOC is like a derogatory term. 00:13:18.659 --> 00:13:22.169 The first time I heard the VP of IT at the University of Scranton, St. 00:13:22.174 --> 00:13:26.909 Moo, I was like, Hey, who are you talking to Over, like, I just got very like, um, 00:13:26.969 --> 00:13:28.439 can he say, is he allowed to say that? 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:33.899 But, uh, I mean, to our credit, like we never like rushed to roll out one. 00:13:33.989 --> 00:13:34.199 Right? 00:13:34.199 --> 00:13:39.359 Like we really, and like by the time, well, I left before this, but like again, 00:13:39.364 --> 00:13:44.639 by the time we were kinda like ready, we kind of saw the, the pitfalls of it. 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:44.939 Right. 00:13:44.999 --> 00:13:48.149 Um, because like, if you're gonna just. 00:13:48.689 --> 00:13:49.319 Throw. 00:13:49.319 --> 00:13:55.049 Like if I wanna learn something short, I can go read an academic paper on it. 00:13:55.229 --> 00:13:57.569 But like you said, it's gonna be an awful experience. 00:13:58.349 --> 00:14:01.079 Like I'm, when I have questions, it's gonna be so boring. 00:14:01.829 --> 00:14:05.129 Um, and that's almost like what I think about when I think 00:14:05.129 --> 00:14:06.869 of like AI generated courses. 00:14:07.409 --> 00:14:10.079 You're basically just saying like, take all of this information 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:12.989 and spit it out on a page. 00:14:14.009 --> 00:14:17.069 Put it into lessons you think it should be in. 00:14:17.069 --> 00:14:19.289 Right, which is not thinking about the learning experience. 00:14:19.769 --> 00:14:20.009 No. 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:25.199 Um, because like AI can't possibly know that, like how each individual will learn. 00:14:26.059 --> 00:14:28.619 And so, you know, that's, that's kind of what I thought about 00:14:28.624 --> 00:14:29.549 as you were talking there. 00:14:29.579 --> 00:14:30.989 But I'm sorry, I like I interrupted your 00:14:30.989 --> 00:14:31.379 Ronnie: philosophy. 00:14:31.379 --> 00:14:32.339 No, I like that. 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:33.209 Yeah, I like that. 00:14:33.209 --> 00:14:40.019 And what, so where I hope we're going is that, well on a couple of fronts, 00:14:41.819 --> 00:14:46.379 you can now like have some of that boring stuff though, that research. 00:14:47.699 --> 00:14:50.879 Like writing the textbook for you almost, right? 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:50.969 Mm-hmm. 00:14:51.464 --> 00:14:56.429 Now, your job as the course creator is to put all of that extra stuff, the extra 00:14:56.434 --> 00:15:00.989 elements into the course that make it interactive, make it engaging, building a 00:15:00.989 --> 00:15:06.149 community around the course, possibly, you know, adding some collaborative elements, 00:15:06.509 --> 00:15:10.949 one-on-one coaching with the instructor, or group coaching with the instructor. 00:15:11.249 --> 00:15:14.399 Those sorts of things are gonna be really what set courses apart. 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:19.709 So this idea of like evergreen courses that are text based and 00:15:19.709 --> 00:15:23.639 like hands off automated, I think we're gonna have a handful of people 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:26.879 maybe in, in certain niches, like be somewhat successful with that. 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:33.719 But by and large, like the real value from this is gonna be if we can help 00:15:33.719 --> 00:15:38.699 put tools in the hands of creators that, that go way above and beyond that, right? 00:15:38.699 --> 00:15:40.049 And make that accessible. 00:15:40.739 --> 00:15:45.239 Um, So AI can help us build the foundation, which we can talk more about 00:15:45.239 --> 00:15:47.189 like specifics and prompts and all that. 00:15:47.189 --> 00:15:49.829 But, um, I don't know. 00:15:49.829 --> 00:15:51.419 I mean, what do you think about, about that? 00:15:51.419 --> 00:15:54.869 I, I'm developing this like, you know, in real time, constantly 00:15:54.869 --> 00:15:56.129 evolving in my thoughts, 00:15:56.134 --> 00:15:56.429 Joe: so, right. 00:15:56.429 --> 00:16:01.079 Well cuz I mean, it's like, I mean, this is maybe recency effect, but I 00:16:01.079 --> 00:16:02.939 can't think of another technology. 00:16:03.539 --> 00:16:08.729 And again, I've been in technology for over 20 years at this point. 00:16:09.509 --> 00:16:14.879 Um, you know, and I can't think of something that evolved as rapidly 00:16:14.999 --> 00:16:16.679 as like generative AI tools. 00:16:17.069 --> 00:16:22.199 Um, and so like, I've talked about it a little bit on, on the podcast and 00:16:22.199 --> 00:16:24.719 like, I had to like, put a disclaimer like, hey, we were talking about this in 00:16:24.719 --> 00:16:28.469 January and it's like March now, and it things, everything's totally different. 00:16:28.474 --> 00:16:34.769 All and so, um, you know, and so like it's, it is that constant evaluation. 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:39.299 The other thing I think, again, as you were talking, what made me. 00:16:39.854 --> 00:16:45.464 What, where my brain went was the idea of the flipped classroom, right? 00:16:45.464 --> 00:16:48.494 So like anybody who's unfamiliar with the idea of the flipped classroom, 00:16:49.184 --> 00:16:55.874 it was that, um, the student would essentially like read the lectures at 00:16:55.874 --> 00:16:59.444 home and then do the assignments in class. 00:16:59.614 --> 00:17:02.774 And when I first heard about this, I was like, oh, this is brilliant, right? 00:17:02.774 --> 00:17:04.754 Like, this is, this makes so much sense. 00:17:05.144 --> 00:17:08.984 You read the material and then like you work through the comprehension 00:17:08.989 --> 00:17:10.964 with your fellow students and teacher. 00:17:10.964 --> 00:17:15.944 But, but then I actually started talking to my students about, uh, those, like who 00:17:15.944 --> 00:17:17.384 had experience with the flipped classroom. 00:17:17.384 --> 00:17:20.894 They're like, oh, they would just make us like watch YouTube videos. 00:17:21.104 --> 00:17:24.194 And I'm like, that's not okay. 00:17:24.464 --> 00:17:28.454 Y that's not a learning experience, right? 00:17:28.574 --> 00:17:34.354 Again, all of this information is out there and, and I, part of the educator's 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:38.205 job is to curate and filter it. 00:17:39.259 --> 00:17:45.044 Um, and put it into a lens that works best for the people you're talking to and not 00:17:45.044 --> 00:17:46.514 just throw a bunch of information at them. 00:17:46.514 --> 00:17:50.444 And so like, totally AI tools can help us do that, right? 00:17:50.624 --> 00:17:54.914 You can write a prompt for chat, G p t, that's like, uh, I wanna teach 00:17:55.184 --> 00:18:01.184 a group of 10 year olds, uh, how to make their first HTML page, um, right. 00:18:01.184 --> 00:18:05.294 As an expert web developer talking to a group of 10 year olds. 00:18:06.014 --> 00:18:09.944 Um, and like, yeah, maybe you'd get something, but like, maybe 00:18:09.944 --> 00:18:14.594 not, you know, or like, certainly they're gonna have questions. 00:18:15.104 --> 00:18:21.344 Um, certainly they're gonna have questions that AI can't possibly anticipate. 00:18:21.344 --> 00:18:26.474 And so, um, I think that it's a very good assistive tool. 00:18:27.254 --> 00:18:28.754 It's a good research tool. 00:18:28.814 --> 00:18:34.334 I remember when like Wikipedia was first emerging and every teacher wanted 00:18:34.334 --> 00:18:37.724 to ban that because it wasn't a good research tool, but like you had to. 00:18:38.939 --> 00:18:39.989 It's a good first. 00:18:40.019 --> 00:18:44.129 I think it's a good first step, but it's not gonna give you your first 00:18:44.129 --> 00:18:45.659 draft or your final draft, rather. 00:18:46.499 --> 00:18:46.799 Right. 00:18:47.129 --> 00:18:49.079 It's, it's gonna give you some prompts. 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:52.889 It's gonna give you some prompts to then go and look for more information. 00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:55.229 Ronnie: Yeah. 00:18:55.229 --> 00:18:59.369 And look for like, how to make it relevant, how to tell stories that 00:18:59.369 --> 00:19:03.059 are personal to you as the educator, or maybe that connect specifically 00:19:03.064 --> 00:19:04.469 with the, with the learner. 00:19:04.979 --> 00:19:09.329 Um, then you, you're gonna wanna, I mean, to me, my, my whole 00:19:09.329 --> 00:19:12.959 like education philosophy is learning is doing, not getting. 00:19:12.959 --> 00:19:13.049 Mm-hmm. 00:19:13.289 --> 00:19:13.469 Right. 00:19:13.469 --> 00:19:13.589 Yeah. 00:19:13.589 --> 00:19:19.289 And so, um, you know, will have to build ways into the courses to 00:19:19.289 --> 00:19:23.669 have the students do something that demonstrates that they've explored 00:19:23.669 --> 00:19:27.659 that new content to whatever it is, or, or played around with it, or 00:19:27.659 --> 00:19:29.579 created something or built something. 00:19:30.209 --> 00:19:34.379 Um, or maybe it's in a traditional sense, a quiz or something like that. 00:19:34.409 --> 00:19:39.374 But, Um, you know, that's really what makes the course, the course 00:19:39.404 --> 00:19:40.964 or those, those experiences. 00:19:41.474 --> 00:19:45.854 And so, you know, anyone that might be listening that is creating learning 00:19:45.859 --> 00:19:52.344 experiences, like always be thinking about, um, what can you have the, the 00:19:52.349 --> 00:19:54.584 student do well, AI's not giving you that. 00:19:54.584 --> 00:19:57.794 Maybe you could ask what could the student do to demonstrate that they've done this 00:19:57.794 --> 00:19:59.384 or, and I've tried that a little bit. 00:19:59.384 --> 00:20:03.344 Like, what's an activity that I could do when I want to teach this concept? 00:20:03.344 --> 00:20:06.074 And it, depending on what it is, it gives some decent ideas 00:20:06.074 --> 00:20:07.334 that can get you unstuck. 00:20:07.874 --> 00:20:11.264 Um, but then, you know, like how much time you have, what resources 00:20:11.264 --> 00:20:13.784 are available, all that, that you would have to then tailor it 00:20:14.354 --> 00:20:16.244 and, and put it into your course. 00:20:16.244 --> 00:20:20.114 But the course shouldn't be about the content because as 00:20:20.114 --> 00:20:21.644 of now, the content is trivial. 00:20:21.644 --> 00:20:22.334 It's everywhere. 00:20:22.394 --> 00:20:24.014 Like your content's not unique. 00:20:24.024 --> 00:20:24.624 Mm-hmm. 00:20:24.704 --> 00:20:26.534 The actual words on the page are not unique. 00:20:26.954 --> 00:20:30.779 Um, So it's gotta be the experiences that are, that are the 00:20:30.779 --> 00:20:31.559 Joe: uniqueness. 00:20:31.859 --> 00:20:32.819 Yeah, I like that. 00:20:32.819 --> 00:20:36.629 I, I always say learn by doing, uh, by doing as well. 00:20:36.689 --> 00:20:40.439 Um, I, you know, I want my courses, I want people to have tangible 00:20:40.439 --> 00:20:42.119 experiences after they take my courses. 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:45.269 I want them to walk away from my course and have something 00:20:46.049 --> 00:20:47.369 virtually in their hands, right? 00:20:47.369 --> 00:20:51.059 Cuz I'm usually teaching people how to do things online, but like, Hey, 00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:52.679 I took this course and I made that. 00:20:52.989 --> 00:20:55.809 The average student retention rates, when they learn something, 00:20:55.809 --> 00:20:58.629 it's like lecture reading is 10%. 00:20:59.199 --> 00:21:03.399 Um, and then practice doing is up to 75, right? 00:21:03.399 --> 00:21:05.079 And like 90% is teaching others. 00:21:05.084 --> 00:21:10.239 But, um, if you are, if, if you are just giving to Ronnie's point, right? 00:21:10.239 --> 00:21:14.799 If you're just giving people something to read, uh, as their course, 00:21:14.829 --> 00:21:16.119 they're not gonna retain that. 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:17.349 They're not gonna remember that. 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:21.729 Um, you probably, I mean, if you're watching on the livestream now, if 00:21:21.729 --> 00:21:25.149 you're listening, maybe you don't even remember what I just said, right? 00:21:25.179 --> 00:21:29.529 Um, but like practical doing is gonna give you a 75% retention 00:21:29.529 --> 00:21:31.419 rate because you're at your, your. 00:21:32.349 --> 00:21:37.989 Forging new memories of, of, you know, like for forming new pathways 00:21:37.989 --> 00:21:40.869 for like actually doing the thing. 00:21:40.869 --> 00:21:41.199 Right. 00:21:41.269 --> 00:21:45.099 That, and that was probably the idea of the flipped classroom, right? 00:21:45.579 --> 00:21:46.149 In theory it was, 00:21:46.154 --> 00:21:49.389 Ronnie: and, and I, I don't have it in front of me and it's been a while. 00:21:49.394 --> 00:21:54.159 And I think it depends on the topic, you know, the content, the age of the 00:21:54.159 --> 00:21:57.069 learners, but I think there was some research that showed, especially younger 00:21:57.069 --> 00:21:59.169 kids, where a lot of this was used mm-hmm. 00:21:59.254 --> 00:22:02.499 That actually didn't show gains in instruc, like in out 00:22:02.529 --> 00:22:04.299 educational outcomes in many ways. 00:22:04.719 --> 00:22:06.519 And that kind of surprised a whole bunch of people. 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:07.059 Yeah. 00:22:07.059 --> 00:22:12.489 Um, but, you know, other ways to incorporate that, doing into your 00:22:12.494 --> 00:22:16.959 course, having forums like BB press forums or comments, um, threaded 00:22:16.959 --> 00:22:23.739 discussions having, uh, peer review of, of work, um, building that collaboration 00:22:23.744 --> 00:22:28.494 and, um, You know, there's all sorts of tools that, that we could add. 00:22:28.494 --> 00:22:30.204 And AI is not going to generate that. 00:22:30.204 --> 00:22:34.074 Now, you should expect today that your students are probably gonna 00:22:34.074 --> 00:22:36.004 be using chat g p t to mm-hmm. 00:22:36.089 --> 00:22:39.894 Like, answer those discussion questions or whatever, but you know, that's kind of 00:22:39.894 --> 00:22:44.304 on them and that's a skill we're all gonna learn how to, how to figure out, you know? 00:22:44.364 --> 00:22:44.544 Yeah. 00:22:44.634 --> 00:22:45.594 What that really means for 00:22:45.594 --> 00:22:45.894 Joe: us. 00:22:46.164 --> 00:22:47.094 I will say, right? 00:22:47.094 --> 00:22:48.444 You asked me about my philosophy. 00:22:48.444 --> 00:22:53.814 I did write a blog post a couple weeks ago, um, called like, chat. 00:22:53.814 --> 00:22:58.224 G P T is, ex, ex is exposing like a weakness in our education 00:22:58.224 --> 00:22:59.304 system or something like that. 00:22:59.754 --> 00:23:07.494 Um, where I basically talked about how, uh, is exposing our 00:23:07.494 --> 00:23:09.174 broken education system, right? 00:23:09.179 --> 00:23:12.684 Because if te my theory, right? 00:23:12.684 --> 00:23:15.654 And I think based on what you've said, you might agree with this. 00:23:15.654 --> 00:23:20.424 I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but, um, if teachers are banning chat, g p 00:23:20.424 --> 00:23:25.089 t from, uh, from the classroom wholesale, first of all, You're now depriving 00:23:25.089 --> 00:23:28.479 students of a skill that they are going to need when they get into the workforce. 00:23:28.539 --> 00:23:31.359 Like you're going to need to know how to leverage generative ai. 00:23:31.869 --> 00:23:40.539 Um, but also, um, but also that means you're just giving assignments that 00:23:40.539 --> 00:23:42.609 are regurgitation assignments, right? 00:23:42.999 --> 00:23:49.149 Like if you tell me to write, uh, a paper about like the Battle of Shiloh, right? 00:23:49.569 --> 00:23:53.709 Uh, and chat G p t can write that paper and it covers everything 00:23:53.709 --> 00:23:55.119 that you told me I had to do. 00:23:55.899 --> 00:23:59.289 That's not a problem with chat G P T, that's a problem with the assignment. 00:23:59.349 --> 00:24:01.779 Like you're just making me memorize and regurgitate, right. 00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:07.629 Um, instead of like critically think right about the Battle of Shiloh or whatever. 00:24:08.649 --> 00:24:09.759 Ronnie: I completely agree. 00:24:10.149 --> 00:24:16.779 Um, and, you know, for course creators and some, you know, we work with 00:24:16.779 --> 00:24:20.229 people of all different types of courses that they're creating, right? 00:24:20.229 --> 00:24:24.339 There's some that are for like, certifications and you have like strict, 00:24:24.939 --> 00:24:30.729 um, either legal obligations or like some something that you have to make sure that 00:24:30.729 --> 00:24:33.069 they know and that are taught is covered. 00:24:33.129 --> 00:24:37.329 And then you have much more fun, um, you know, hobbies and things 00:24:37.329 --> 00:24:40.599 like that, that people that we, you know, all sorts of stuff. 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:43.359 And then everything in between. 00:24:43.569 --> 00:24:46.179 It depends on your course, it depends on the topic, but you 00:24:46.179 --> 00:24:49.269 can, you definitely wanna bring in community some way and mm-hmm. 00:24:49.349 --> 00:24:55.089 And the option for that, um, however you can, even if that community is external 00:24:55.094 --> 00:24:58.269 to the course that you're just opening the door to or something like that. 00:24:59.409 --> 00:25:00.549 Joe: Yeah, absolutely. 00:25:00.609 --> 00:25:03.819 And now that we've gotten that out of the way, right, um, 00:25:04.689 --> 00:25:07.989 uh, AI tools can be helpful. 00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:14.139 Um, and I think something that, um, we're teed up to talk about is something that 00:25:14.889 --> 00:25:17.529 I always, always struggle with, right? 00:25:17.529 --> 00:25:22.119 I make courses for LinkedIn learning, um, and if I'm not doing, like, if 00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:23.649 I'm not doing a coding course, right? 00:25:23.649 --> 00:25:27.909 Where like the, the doing part, the assessment part is obvious. 00:25:27.909 --> 00:25:30.639 It's like, take this code, write this code, right? 00:25:30.699 --> 00:25:34.359 Usually I'll like say, oh, right, well, I'm gonna, let's write this code, pause 00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:37.209 this video here, try to do it yourself, and then we'll walk through my solution. 00:25:37.869 --> 00:25:44.649 Um, if it's not that, then they want me to write quiz questions and I hate. 00:25:45.669 --> 00:25:50.079 Hate writing quick because like, they're so to me, they're like so 00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:52.029 contrived the way I write them. 00:25:52.029 --> 00:25:52.929 I'm really bad at writing. 00:25:52.929 --> 00:25:54.369 I just say that right off the bat. 00:25:54.369 --> 00:25:54.609 Right. 00:25:55.029 --> 00:25:56.589 It's always like four. 00:25:57.099 --> 00:25:59.079 One is I think the obvious answer. 00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:01.929 One is a very, obviously not the answer. 00:26:01.989 --> 00:26:04.029 It's like, just totally at a left field. 00:26:04.569 --> 00:26:10.089 Um, and then, but it's like, it's something I spend, I think, a, um, 00:26:10.659 --> 00:26:14.499 inequitable amount of time on when it comes to creating the course. 00:26:14.679 --> 00:26:17.859 Um, but it sounds like Sensei is about to integrate something 00:26:17.859 --> 00:26:19.719 that could, could maybe help me. 00:26:20.649 --> 00:26:20.799 Yeah. 00:26:20.804 --> 00:26:21.909 This is our first, 00:26:21.909 --> 00:26:23.499 Ronnie: our first tool that we're building in. 00:26:23.499 --> 00:26:31.149 And so what we wanted to avoid, um, was not having this like chat interface that 00:26:31.154 --> 00:26:33.239 you have everywhere else with mm-hmm. 00:26:33.324 --> 00:26:34.179 With AI tools. 00:26:34.509 --> 00:26:37.389 We just kind of want it to be magic wherever we can. 00:26:37.899 --> 00:26:41.709 And so you already have a lesson in Sensei and the lesson has content. 00:26:42.579 --> 00:26:45.969 Then you can click a button to create a quiz. 00:26:45.969 --> 00:26:46.809 I mean, that's how it works. 00:26:46.809 --> 00:26:50.499 Now, when you do that, we'll ask, well, do you want us to generate 00:26:50.499 --> 00:26:51.879 a few quiz questions for you? 00:26:52.689 --> 00:26:56.379 And we did a lot of testing and we found that like chat, G p T 00:26:56.384 --> 00:26:58.389 usually writes three good questions. 00:26:58.389 --> 00:27:00.759 If you ask for more than three, they get really repetitive. 00:27:00.939 --> 00:27:01.029 Mm-hmm. 00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:06.099 Um, and so we were just showing three quiz questions and they, for 00:27:06.099 --> 00:27:08.049 now, the, they're multiple choice. 00:27:08.054 --> 00:27:12.639 But what I like about it is when we can take it a step further, we 00:27:12.639 --> 00:27:18.549 then ask to, well also display why the right answer is correct and why 00:27:18.579 --> 00:27:20.859 each wrong answer is not correct. 00:27:20.859 --> 00:27:22.569 Like, why is that the wrong answer? 00:27:23.139 --> 00:27:27.969 And then we, so when the learner is taking the quiz and they choose the 00:27:27.969 --> 00:27:33.189 wrong answer, they'll immediately get the feedback that, you know, this 00:27:33.189 --> 00:27:36.009 is why this is the wrong answer, and here's the right answer and here's why. 00:27:36.009 --> 00:27:39.189 So it's like reinforcing right in real time and. 00:27:40.104 --> 00:27:43.554 You know, we could do that when we're building the course, but like you 00:27:43.554 --> 00:27:44.964 said, it's pretty time consuming. 00:27:44.964 --> 00:27:46.464 It's also a little challenging. 00:27:47.004 --> 00:27:51.564 Um, and I think once you, I've been playing with these a bunch, like, 00:27:51.654 --> 00:27:57.174 it kind of helps train the course creator too, like on writing better 00:27:57.179 --> 00:27:58.764 quizzes and writing better feedback. 00:27:58.764 --> 00:28:01.524 So then you can extend and write a fourth and a fifth. 00:28:01.524 --> 00:28:03.864 And we don't want you to just use the quiz questions exactly 00:28:03.864 --> 00:28:04.944 as they come out of the box. 00:28:04.944 --> 00:28:07.404 Like we're hoping you're reviewing them and making sure that it's 00:28:07.944 --> 00:28:10.524 a good question and like it's the right answer and all that. 00:28:10.529 --> 00:28:15.774 But, um, that's just like one way of starting and it's, you don't have 00:28:15.774 --> 00:28:17.244 to worry about writing a prompt. 00:28:17.274 --> 00:28:21.354 We've we're customizing those prompts for you all in the background and 00:28:21.354 --> 00:28:23.574 then putting it into the blocks. 00:28:24.264 --> 00:28:26.274 So no copy pasting or anything like that. 00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:29.454 It transforms it into Gutenberg and into the quiz editor. 00:28:30.264 --> 00:28:30.894 Ah, that's awesome. 00:28:30.894 --> 00:28:31.344 Joe: Which is pretty cool. 00:28:31.764 --> 00:28:32.064 Yeah. 00:28:32.064 --> 00:28:32.664 That's awesome. 00:28:32.664 --> 00:28:34.974 And like the, why is it, right, why is it wrong? 00:28:34.974 --> 00:28:36.984 Like, that's another thing that I really struggle with. 00:28:36.984 --> 00:28:39.474 I'm just like, The right. 00:28:39.474 --> 00:28:43.224 I like, I feel like when I say, when I write y, is this the right answer? 00:28:44.064 --> 00:28:45.504 I can also put that in the Y. 00:28:45.504 --> 00:28:46.854 Is this the wrong answer, right? 00:28:46.854 --> 00:28:47.994 Like yeah, like yeah. 00:28:48.054 --> 00:28:49.434 Why is a the right answer there? 00:28:49.464 --> 00:28:50.934 The A is the right answer for these reasons. 00:28:50.934 --> 00:28:54.414 Why is B the wrong answer for the reasons that A is the right answer? 00:28:54.924 --> 00:28:57.234 But that's like not really helpful, right? 00:28:57.234 --> 00:28:57.564 It's like, 00:28:57.564 --> 00:29:00.114 Ronnie: and it's, and you wanna just kind of cut, be and paste what you've 00:29:00.114 --> 00:29:02.424 already written cuz you already wrote the right answer, you know, 00:29:02.424 --> 00:29:03.834 up above or whatever in the text. 00:29:04.044 --> 00:29:06.804 But chat g p t does a pretty good job of like writing it in a slightly 00:29:06.804 --> 00:29:10.374 different way that might connect with them a little bit better or something 00:29:10.374 --> 00:29:12.144 like that and not feel super repetitive. 00:29:12.144 --> 00:29:15.834 So, um, you know, that's just the first thing we're playing with. 00:29:16.374 --> 00:29:24.789 Um, right after that it's getting to creating, we found, Just creating 00:29:24.789 --> 00:29:28.119 the course outline, which you can already go to chat G p T or 00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:30.069 I've been using Bard a lot too. 00:29:30.639 --> 00:29:30.909 Nice. 00:29:31.059 --> 00:29:32.439 I think that G Google Chat. 00:29:32.439 --> 00:29:33.879 Joe: G p t Google established 00:29:33.879 --> 00:29:34.209 Ronnie: earlier. 00:29:34.214 --> 00:29:34.449 Yeah. 00:29:34.929 --> 00:29:35.169 Yeah. 00:29:35.529 --> 00:29:36.999 Um, yes. 00:29:37.089 --> 00:29:42.999 And so, um, you know, you can already ask it for a course outline based 00:29:43.004 --> 00:29:44.109 on the course topic and all that. 00:29:44.109 --> 00:29:47.829 But what we're doing is you have to put a course title in 00:29:47.829 --> 00:29:48.939 when you create a new course. 00:29:48.999 --> 00:29:52.959 And we ask you right after that what like the objectives are of the course. 00:29:53.169 --> 00:29:53.289 Mm-hmm. 00:29:53.529 --> 00:29:56.439 Well now we already have all the information we need to 00:29:56.829 --> 00:29:58.029 write the prompts for you. 00:29:58.479 --> 00:29:58.629 Yeah. 00:29:58.659 --> 00:30:04.419 Um, so then we can generate a, an outline and say, do you like this? 00:30:04.479 --> 00:30:06.129 You can just start blank if you want. 00:30:06.129 --> 00:30:09.279 Like, you're not forced to use it, but if you choose to use it, you can easily 00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:12.579 customize it, edit it, but hopefully, you know, the goal is to get people 00:30:12.584 --> 00:30:14.289 to publish their first course faster. 00:30:14.289 --> 00:30:16.179 That's like the metric we're trying to improve. 00:30:16.179 --> 00:30:16.239 Yeah. 00:30:16.269 --> 00:30:20.174 Cuz we're a business, you know, we have to be, um, And, 00:30:20.194 --> 00:30:23.424 Joe: but I mean also like starting a course is like the hardest part, right? 00:30:23.484 --> 00:30:26.304 I mean, to me it's some people, they're like people who have a hard 00:30:26.304 --> 00:30:29.334 time starting and a, uh, some people who have time, like getting a hard 00:30:29.334 --> 00:30:30.354 time getting over the finish line. 00:30:30.834 --> 00:30:33.144 I am hun a hundred percent in the starting. 00:30:33.804 --> 00:30:34.074 Yeah. 00:30:34.164 --> 00:30:36.144 I will stare at a problem for like a week and be like, yeah, 00:30:36.144 --> 00:30:37.164 I really gotta start this. 00:30:37.284 --> 00:30:41.994 But like, again, generative AI has been, that made that a little bit easier, right? 00:30:41.994 --> 00:30:45.954 And like getting an outline, at least like you said, gets the ideas 00:30:45.954 --> 00:30:47.754 flowing and that's like super helpful. 00:30:47.754 --> 00:30:50.934 And so, yes, like you're a business, you want people to make more courses 00:30:50.939 --> 00:30:56.214 obviously, but like that is also extremely beneficial to the course 00:30:56.214 --> 00:30:59.634 creator who probably wants to get the course done as soon as possible. 00:30:59.634 --> 00:30:59.724 Oh yeah. 00:30:59.724 --> 00:31:00.714 So they can start selling it, 00:31:00.714 --> 00:31:00.984 Ronnie: right? 00:31:01.434 --> 00:31:05.094 No, we want, I mean we want, we wanna make tools that makes their 00:31:05.094 --> 00:31:07.554 lives easier and better and a better end result of the course. 00:31:07.554 --> 00:31:10.974 And everything like that helps 'em learn how to use the our tool as well, 00:31:10.974 --> 00:31:13.254 because that is kind of the hardest. 00:31:14.454 --> 00:31:17.604 Piece is that very beginning, just getting used to the course. 00:31:17.604 --> 00:31:20.244 And so if it already has the lessons laid out there with the titles, 00:31:20.364 --> 00:31:23.064 it, it all just makes a lot more sense to teach you how to use the 00:31:23.064 --> 00:31:24.594 tool, which is a big part of it too. 00:31:24.744 --> 00:31:26.064 And we'll do the same for lessons. 00:31:26.064 --> 00:31:28.134 We know the lesson title, we know the lesson objectives. 00:31:28.434 --> 00:31:30.384 We can, I'm nervous about this one. 00:31:30.384 --> 00:31:34.854 I, we're not gonna publish it if it's not good content, but like, I'm hoping 00:31:34.854 --> 00:31:41.064 we can write it in ways, like tell a story a around this topic or Yeah, like 00:31:41.064 --> 00:31:45.984 try to make it more engaging or ask discussion questions for this topic. 00:31:46.074 --> 00:31:50.124 So it's not just like regurgitating a textbook of content, right? 00:31:50.129 --> 00:31:55.014 Like it's gonna vary based on what the topic is, that it gives you some lesson 00:31:55.014 --> 00:32:00.924 output, help build some of that, um, you know, interactive elements into the lesson 00:32:00.924 --> 00:32:01.374 Joe: for you. 00:32:02.214 --> 00:32:04.644 Yeah, I really, I really like that. 00:32:04.734 --> 00:32:09.204 Um, cuz usually, you know, when I start, when I start on a course, 00:32:09.204 --> 00:32:10.764 the first thing I'll do is. 00:32:11.604 --> 00:32:13.599 Um, this is like course or book. 00:32:13.899 --> 00:32:18.669 Um, there's a like dual mind map of like everything I know about the topic. 00:32:18.669 --> 00:32:18.909 Right. 00:32:19.419 --> 00:32:24.369 Um, and so like even if I start there, right, I could still ask cha 00:32:24.669 --> 00:32:28.899 e p t or Bard, um, which by the way, I tried Bard when I first came out. 00:32:29.229 --> 00:32:30.609 Um, it's not as good, I'll be honest. 00:32:30.939 --> 00:32:31.389 Yeah. 00:32:31.389 --> 00:32:36.849 I mean, I, I I I kind of feel like Google's like scared of how good it 00:32:36.849 --> 00:32:39.879 could actually be and like they're probably throttling it a little bit. 00:32:40.299 --> 00:32:40.959 Oh, interesting. 00:32:41.019 --> 00:32:45.039 Um, just based on what I've read, pre Bard coming out. 00:32:45.729 --> 00:32:49.869 Um, but like, is that, is that rapidly, is that changing rapidly? 00:32:49.874 --> 00:32:52.749 Cuz I know like one of the things that Bard can do that chat c p t 00:32:52.754 --> 00:32:55.309 can't is like get the content of a. 00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:56.379 Right. 00:32:56.829 --> 00:32:57.879 Ronnie: Yeah, it does that. 00:32:57.909 --> 00:33:00.549 Um, and I use Bing actually a lot too. 00:33:01.329 --> 00:33:01.449 Oh, nice. 00:33:01.449 --> 00:33:04.509 Like, I'll test them all and Bing is chat g p t four, but it does 00:33:04.509 --> 00:33:07.749 the website stuff and I really like the way it cites its sources. 00:33:07.754 --> 00:33:07.879 Oh. 00:33:08.229 --> 00:33:10.059 And tells you where it pulled the information. 00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:11.279 Um, dang. 00:33:11.589 --> 00:33:11.949 That's awesome. 00:33:11.979 --> 00:33:12.039 Yeah. 00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:15.189 One thing, one thing I like about Bard is it usually gives you three 00:33:15.189 --> 00:33:17.109 versions of whatever it writes. 00:33:17.649 --> 00:33:20.619 And so you can immediately see what's different between the three versions. 00:33:20.619 --> 00:33:21.729 So that's pretty cool too. 00:33:21.949 --> 00:33:24.739 And I'm hoping we kind of build that in maybe with, it's kind of like 00:33:24.744 --> 00:33:26.089 we're doing three quiz questions. 00:33:26.089 --> 00:33:27.829 You can choose to have all three. 00:33:28.369 --> 00:33:33.829 Um, but with the outlines, we might have it do a short course outline 00:33:33.829 --> 00:33:38.299 or a more complicated course outline with like modules or something so 00:33:38.299 --> 00:33:40.009 we can show you the differences. 00:33:40.489 --> 00:33:46.399 Um, that is, is something we're, we're actively kind of looking into. 00:33:47.084 --> 00:33:51.764 Joe: Did you read Bill Gates's article about ai, like the future of AI 00:33:51.764 --> 00:33:54.194 and, and how it could help people? 00:33:55.514 --> 00:33:57.734 Ronnie: I don't think I, I mean, I know I didn't read it. 00:33:57.794 --> 00:33:59.264 I've heard bits and pieces 00:33:59.264 --> 00:34:04.304 Joe: of what I, my biggest takeaway and what I liked best from it was he 00:34:04.304 --> 00:34:05.804 basically said that my job is safe. 00:34:05.804 --> 00:34:06.014 Right? 00:34:06.014 --> 00:34:09.134 Educators, the world's always gonna need educators and the 00:34:09.134 --> 00:34:10.244 world's always gonna need nurses. 00:34:10.244 --> 00:34:12.284 So like, my job and my wife's job are safe. 00:34:13.189 --> 00:34:21.284 Um, but, uh, to that point, right, anybody at this moment can look 00:34:21.284 --> 00:34:23.024 up anything they want, right? 00:34:23.729 --> 00:34:26.729 Uh, you can find information on anything. 00:34:27.389 --> 00:34:33.239 And, um, but that doesn't mean that schools and educational 00:34:33.239 --> 00:34:34.889 institutions are eliminated, right? 00:34:34.889 --> 00:34:43.409 Because you still need someone with the experience to discern and distill 00:34:44.069 --> 00:34:46.529 and filter out the garbage, right? 00:34:46.889 --> 00:34:53.429 Um, and so I think like what we're talking about here is how chat G 00:34:53.429 --> 00:34:59.909 P T or other generative AI tools can help us make better content, 00:34:59.909 --> 00:35:01.439 give us better ideas, right? 00:35:01.569 --> 00:35:07.859 Because we as educators, we still only have like our personal lens, right? 00:35:07.859 --> 00:35:13.739 So like, I mean, I don't want to, um, disparage programmers. 00:35:13.739 --> 00:35:17.669 I am a programmer, but like I've, I've said this before, right? 00:35:17.669 --> 00:35:20.369 Where like I'll be talking to a client and they'll want to feature and I'll 00:35:20.369 --> 00:35:21.289 be like, why would you want that? 00:35:22.379 --> 00:35:22.739 Right. 00:35:22.739 --> 00:35:26.609 Like, which is just such a conceited thing to think and say. 00:35:27.179 --> 00:35:32.849 Um, but like the same could be said in, in the education setting, right? 00:35:32.849 --> 00:35:38.519 Like, I might not think of something that the, uh, the learner might need to learn. 00:35:39.029 --> 00:35:44.249 Whereas a few good prompts from chat G P T might show me like, I'm teaching WordPress 00:35:44.249 --> 00:35:48.629 and most people don't know the difference between a page and a post that comes from 00:35:48.629 --> 00:35:51.629 a real life experience where my student was like, what are you even talking about? 00:35:52.349 --> 00:35:53.159 What's the difference? 00:35:53.279 --> 00:36:01.289 Um, so things like that, if you can short circuit that, uh, incredulous 00:36:01.289 --> 00:36:07.559 look from a, an 18 year old student, uh, chay, VT could save you a lot of pain. 00:36:09.389 --> 00:36:11.789 Ronnie: Well, you know what, you made me think a little bit about. 00:36:13.029 --> 00:36:13.124 Chat. 00:36:13.124 --> 00:36:18.224 G p t is so text heavy and I know that there's some like generative like 00:36:18.224 --> 00:36:21.884 art and image tools and even videos we're getting there, but mm-hmm. 00:36:22.129 --> 00:36:25.934 We, we've kind of been on this trend away from reading a lot of text and 00:36:25.934 --> 00:36:30.044 moving into like these like TikTok like video for everything, right? 00:36:30.044 --> 00:36:35.294 Like if you can't, if you can't teach it in a, in a quick, uh, portrait mode. 00:36:35.294 --> 00:36:38.204 TikTok, I mean, forever it was like, how dare you record a video 00:36:38.204 --> 00:36:39.764 in portrait mode and now Oh, I know. 00:36:40.004 --> 00:36:48.614 Um, and so like that's a good thing that educators have to remember. 00:36:48.619 --> 00:36:51.314 Like depending on the topic, depending on the learner, you 00:36:51.314 --> 00:36:52.874 kind of set it with their needs. 00:36:52.879 --> 00:36:57.554 Like some things somebody might be able to read and understand others they 00:36:57.554 --> 00:37:01.244 might be better if they hear it or if they see it in a video or if they get 00:37:01.244 --> 00:37:03.194 to draw it themselves or whatever. 00:37:03.464 --> 00:37:05.964 So when we're building our course, we can inc. 00:37:06.764 --> 00:37:10.514 All these strategies, whenever possible, give people the choice 00:37:10.514 --> 00:37:13.304 and we don't have to funnel them through the exact same experience 00:37:13.304 --> 00:37:15.134 as everyone else taking the course. 00:37:15.224 --> 00:37:16.484 We can give them their options. 00:37:16.484 --> 00:37:21.854 And that's really what I hope this like AI will help us be able to build 00:37:21.854 --> 00:37:26.084 those sorts of like, just experiences 00:37:26.084 --> 00:37:26.594 Joe: faster. 00:37:27.554 --> 00:37:27.974 Yeah. 00:37:27.974 --> 00:37:31.034 And, and this is something I talk about with like content reuse, right? 00:37:31.094 --> 00:37:35.334 Um, you know, I've got students who are like, how am I supposed 00:37:35.334 --> 00:37:36.164 to make all this content? 00:37:36.169 --> 00:37:41.114 Like, well, you know, it's, uh, record the podcast, use generative AI to get 00:37:41.114 --> 00:37:44.594 a transcript, have chat, e b t, clean up that transcript and make it readable 00:37:45.404 --> 00:37:47.204 and then have it summarize, right? 00:37:47.264 --> 00:37:48.734 Oh, now you have LinkedIn post, right? 00:37:49.214 --> 00:37:52.634 Uh, there is, if you are creating text based courses, like maybe you're not 00:37:52.814 --> 00:37:57.464 good on like, maybe, you know, I mean, Thomas Jefferson famously delivered 00:37:57.464 --> 00:38:04.044 his state, state of the Union, states of the State of the Union addresses. 00:38:04.214 --> 00:38:04.694 There we go. 00:38:05.204 --> 00:38:08.789 Um, Via, via written word, right? 00:38:08.789 --> 00:38:10.319 Because he hated speaking. 00:38:11.099 --> 00:38:16.919 Um, but I was just looking at this tool by, uh, 11 Labs. 00:38:17.729 --> 00:38:18.989 I don't know if you've seen this one. 00:38:18.989 --> 00:38:23.489 You give it, you feed it a sample of your voice, and then it will, you 00:38:23.494 --> 00:38:29.909 know, generate, uh, text to speech with your own voice, um, does a pretty 00:38:29.909 --> 00:38:37.409 good job if you have like that North American kind of accent and dialect. 00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:43.529 Um, you know, I think, uh, I was listening to a podcast with, uh, John Voorhis, 00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:49.019 who's from like Chicago and Federico Vici, who's from Rome, Italy, and, um, 00:38:49.649 --> 00:38:52.619 definitely worked a little bit better for John than it did for Federico. 00:38:52.619 --> 00:38:55.649 So probably a very US-centric tool right now. 00:38:55.654 --> 00:38:58.709 But, um, you know, if you're in a position where you can. 00:38:59.924 --> 00:39:02.684 Audio content, you're not comfortable in front of the mic. 00:39:02.774 --> 00:39:02.954 Yeah. 00:39:03.314 --> 00:39:05.054 That could be an opportunity. 00:39:05.114 --> 00:39:05.474 Right? 00:39:05.534 --> 00:39:06.494 Or vice versa. 00:39:07.394 --> 00:39:11.654 AI tools are giving us the ability to meet the learners where they want 00:39:11.659 --> 00:39:13.214 to be, which I think is super great. 00:39:15.404 --> 00:39:16.244 Ronnie: Yeah, absolutely. 00:39:16.544 --> 00:39:22.634 And like I can write a blog post or an email like in no time. 00:39:22.664 --> 00:39:25.934 That's just a skill that I've developed, but when it comes to trying 00:39:25.934 --> 00:39:29.774 to record a video, like it could take me all day to record a minute 00:39:29.774 --> 00:39:34.724 because I just like, just get stressed out about it and wanna rerecord a 00:39:34.724 --> 00:39:36.074 million times and all that stuff. 00:39:36.074 --> 00:39:36.164 Mm-hmm. 00:39:37.304 --> 00:39:39.824 Maybe there's tools that are available that are gonna help me. 00:39:39.824 --> 00:39:40.124 Right. 00:39:40.124 --> 00:39:43.034 Like I can write it out and like get it out quickly. 00:39:43.564 --> 00:39:46.324 Joe: I think it's really interesting when you think about those things, right? 00:39:46.534 --> 00:39:50.854 Turning on a video and, and talking is energy. 00:39:50.974 --> 00:39:54.874 Like it takes a lot of energy, the camera steals energy from you. 00:39:54.874 --> 00:39:56.974 So, um, yeah. 00:39:56.974 --> 00:39:57.754 But these tools can be 00:39:57.754 --> 00:39:58.834 Ronnie: a great equalizer. 00:39:58.834 --> 00:39:58.924 Yes. 00:39:58.984 --> 00:40:01.684 I mean, I think about, uh, you know, people with. 00:40:02.794 --> 00:40:07.474 Dyslexia or dysgraphia like or anything really. 00:40:07.474 --> 00:40:09.574 Like we can What's dysgraphia again? 00:40:09.754 --> 00:40:13.414 It's writing issues like especially handwritten. 00:40:13.414 --> 00:40:13.444 Okay. 00:40:13.449 --> 00:40:16.054 Like handwriting and getting their words onto paper. 00:40:16.114 --> 00:40:16.384 Gotcha. 00:40:16.744 --> 00:40:21.904 Um, like, you know, we have such good tools with text 00:40:21.904 --> 00:40:23.734 to speech that really helps. 00:40:23.944 --> 00:40:24.064 Mm-hmm. 00:40:24.429 --> 00:40:29.764 Um, I've even seen people use like paste, copy paste and a whole bunch of text 00:40:29.764 --> 00:40:34.294 and say like, rewrite this in a more friendly format for someone with dyslexia. 00:40:34.294 --> 00:40:37.264 And it takes out some of like, it, there's some tools that people are 00:40:37.264 --> 00:40:42.664 working on just for that, but like, it's just these tools will hopefully be une 00:40:42.664 --> 00:40:46.774 equalizer for those, those of us both wanting to create content and consume. 00:40:46.779 --> 00:40:47.104 Right. 00:40:47.104 --> 00:40:49.594 We will all be a little bit more on an even playing field. 00:40:50.304 --> 00:40:51.034 Joe: Yeah, absolutely. 00:40:51.034 --> 00:40:51.554 To be pretty cool. 00:40:51.554 --> 00:40:51.954 Absolutely. 00:40:52.114 --> 00:40:52.744 That's awesome. 00:40:53.104 --> 00:40:55.174 That's like one of the things everyone's like, why do I, why 00:40:55.174 --> 00:40:56.674 does my podcast need a transcript? 00:40:56.764 --> 00:40:57.034 Right. 00:40:57.094 --> 00:41:01.234 I'm like, well, there's like a lot of reasons, but some people prefer to read. 00:41:02.244 --> 00:41:05.254 And like the argument will be like, well, our podcast is so 00:41:05.254 --> 00:41:09.574 conversational that like just the transcript will be terrible to read. 00:41:09.574 --> 00:41:12.244 And I'm like, all right, well let the reader make that judgment. 00:41:12.364 --> 00:41:12.664 Right? 00:41:12.669 --> 00:41:15.214 Like, don't be like, you won't like this anyway. 00:41:16.564 --> 00:41:17.074 Um, 00:41:17.764 --> 00:41:17.974 Ronnie: yeah. 00:41:17.974 --> 00:41:21.604 Well, similarly, if you have a video based course, of course it's heavy with videos. 00:41:21.604 --> 00:41:25.534 Like not just having the caption option, but like you can use an 00:41:25.534 --> 00:41:28.234 accordion to hide it, but put the whole transcript in there, right? 00:41:28.264 --> 00:41:28.534 Yeah. 00:41:28.654 --> 00:41:33.214 So someone can expand, but you're also gonna like benefit search if 00:41:33.214 --> 00:41:34.384 someone's searching through your course. 00:41:34.414 --> 00:41:37.174 One of the things that, I don't know how long this will take or how useful 00:41:37.179 --> 00:41:40.534 this will be, but I feel like we're gonna have these chat bots that follow 00:41:40.534 --> 00:41:41.884 us on every website we visit now. 00:41:42.544 --> 00:41:43.154 Mm-hmm. 00:41:43.234 --> 00:41:48.304 So the idea is like, and we're kind of looking into this like an AI tool 00:41:48.304 --> 00:41:49.864 where you could chat with the course. 00:41:50.404 --> 00:41:50.684 Yeah. 00:41:51.364 --> 00:41:55.234 And you know, so having that transcript in there is gonna make, building these 00:41:55.234 --> 00:41:57.394 tools and add-ons later so much better. 00:41:57.394 --> 00:41:58.684 So I would definitely, 00:41:58.744 --> 00:42:00.964 Joe: someone told me. 00:42:01.999 --> 00:42:03.724 About a tool like this. 00:42:04.144 --> 00:42:06.514 It's not on this piece of paper, I thought it was. 00:42:06.964 --> 00:42:10.384 Um, but it's like you feed it a bunch of your content, video content, 00:42:10.384 --> 00:42:14.434 audio content, and it transcribes it, transcribes it, and then you basically 00:42:14.434 --> 00:42:19.864 say like, um, where do I talk about, uh, this was a real estate example, right? 00:42:19.864 --> 00:42:22.714 So like, where do I talk about, um, HOAs? 00:42:23.584 --> 00:42:27.274 And this chat box comes back and it's like, in this video at minute 00:42:27.484 --> 00:42:30.094 nine you talk about HOAs, right? 00:42:30.094 --> 00:42:33.334 Like, so these tools are already being developed and that is 00:42:34.114 --> 00:42:36.034 absolutely bananas to me. 00:42:36.064 --> 00:42:38.434 Ronnie: And even more than like search results like that, it'll 00:42:38.439 --> 00:42:41.554 like synthesize like, what did we talk about with HOAs in there? 00:42:41.554 --> 00:42:41.644 Right? 00:42:41.784 --> 00:42:44.584 And it'll like summarize instead of you having to read the transcript. 00:42:44.584 --> 00:42:47.374 And, and so I feel like that's coming. 00:42:47.379 --> 00:42:51.064 I don't know how far in the future, but your course will have 00:42:51.184 --> 00:42:53.734 a chatbot that someone can like. 00:42:54.579 --> 00:42:57.019 You know, ask questions of the course. 00:42:57.439 --> 00:42:57.709 Right? 00:42:57.709 --> 00:43:01.429 Um, every website has it with documentation and all that sort of stuff, 00:43:01.429 --> 00:43:02.719 Joe: so Yeah. 00:43:02.749 --> 00:43:04.399 Completely indexed, right? 00:43:04.399 --> 00:43:08.329 And then this is, yeah, I mean, cuz this follows the trend and I'm 00:43:08.334 --> 00:43:09.649 aware we're coming up on time here. 00:43:09.709 --> 00:43:14.209 Um, so if anybody has any, any questions, uh, for me, or more importantly, 00:43:14.209 --> 00:43:16.669 Ronnie, um, leave them in the chat. 00:43:16.669 --> 00:43:17.839 I'll make sure we get to them. 00:43:18.229 --> 00:43:25.399 Um, but you know, the trend for the last few years has been, um, I first heard, 00:43:25.399 --> 00:43:32.059 uh, uh, Chris Badgett from Lifter, uh, use this term, um, like just in time learning. 00:43:32.059 --> 00:43:32.149 Mm-hmm. 00:43:32.929 --> 00:43:33.199 Right? 00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:37.219 Where people have a problem they wanna solve and they want to find course 00:43:37.219 --> 00:43:40.579 material in that moment, uh, to help them. 00:43:40.579 --> 00:43:42.829 And so this tool, the tool is called Searchy. 00:43:43.339 --> 00:43:44.719 I'll put it in the chat here. 00:43:45.319 --> 00:43:46.579 Um, oh, nice. 00:43:46.699 --> 00:43:50.299 But this is like, this is the, the tool I was talking about, that like 00:43:50.299 --> 00:43:52.279 index is your own content for you. 00:43:52.279 --> 00:43:55.294 This is like, Definitely something I'm gonna be playing with 00:43:55.714 --> 00:43:56.734 probably on the next live stream. 00:43:57.364 --> 00:44:00.664 Uh, either that or like generating an outline for my next book idea. 00:44:00.844 --> 00:44:08.614 Um, but uh, having a tool like this means that you can have, uh, over 00:44:08.614 --> 00:44:11.014 six or 14 hours of course content. 00:44:11.044 --> 00:44:14.644 And like, that doesn't feel daunting to the, the learner anymore. 00:44:14.644 --> 00:44:14.854 Right. 00:44:14.854 --> 00:44:18.334 Because I think this was like another thing that like course creators felt like 00:44:18.334 --> 00:44:24.454 they had to do was just like, put as much content as possible because content equals 00:44:24.454 --> 00:44:27.394 value, but like outcomes, equal value. 00:44:28.114 --> 00:44:29.584 Um, yeah. 00:44:29.584 --> 00:44:29.674 And 00:44:29.674 --> 00:44:33.914 Ronnie: these micro courses are like a big thing and a good, I mean, you 00:44:33.914 --> 00:44:35.554 can learn so much in 15 minutes. 00:44:35.664 --> 00:44:36.154 Yeah. 00:44:36.154 --> 00:44:37.194 And like absolutely. 00:44:37.614 --> 00:44:41.014 You know, and you could, you could sell that easily. 00:44:41.824 --> 00:44:42.094 Right. 00:44:42.099 --> 00:44:44.914 Um, you know, and, and get good value 00:44:44.914 --> 00:44:45.304 Joe: out of it. 00:44:45.424 --> 00:44:46.504 So yeah. 00:44:46.504 --> 00:44:50.674 That's like a tactical error I made recently where, um, I've got 00:44:50.674 --> 00:44:54.184 over a hundred videos, probably like 125 videos on podcasting. 00:44:54.994 --> 00:44:57.844 And, um, they were all in kind of self-paced courses. 00:44:57.844 --> 00:45:01.624 They were mostly in one big self-paced course, and I just kind of turned 00:45:01.624 --> 00:45:06.004 it into a membership where you could search for videos and, uh, I thought 00:45:06.004 --> 00:45:09.364 this was really the way to go, like Netflix style search for your topic. 00:45:09.714 --> 00:45:14.014 Um, when I didn't anticipate was for like, I kind of priced myself 00:45:14.014 --> 00:45:21.154 out of the market, um, for my target audience, but also, like, sometimes 00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:22.804 people don't know what they don't know. 00:45:23.674 --> 00:45:28.204 And so if I give them a, um, micro course or a mini course where it's like, how 00:45:28.204 --> 00:45:31.744 to start a podcast for less than 400 bucks, oh, well that's the thing that 00:45:31.744 --> 00:45:35.944 they know they, they need or how to get your first podcast sponsor right now. 00:45:35.949 --> 00:45:38.794 Let's not think long term about generating hundreds of thousands 00:45:38.794 --> 00:45:40.114 of dollars off of sponsorships. 00:45:40.114 --> 00:45:41.974 Let's just talk about getting your first sponsorship. 00:45:41.974 --> 00:45:43.264 Is that worth 50 bucks to you? 00:45:44.049 --> 00:45:44.749 Well, yeah, totally. 00:45:45.499 --> 00:45:48.499 Ronnie: And then you can cross sell, upsell, right, exactly. 00:45:48.499 --> 00:45:50.209 Link all that sort of good stuff. 00:45:50.269 --> 00:45:50.569 Yeah. 00:45:50.569 --> 00:45:53.299 Especially into like a one-on-one coaching thing or whatever 00:45:53.299 --> 00:45:53.779 Joe: it may be. 00:45:54.499 --> 00:45:55.639 So Yeah, that's exactly right. 00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:59.869 And the mistake I made learn from this mistake friends, um, I tried to bundle 00:45:59.869 --> 00:46:05.089 it all together, like you get all hundred 20 videos and live cohorts with me and a 00:46:05.089 --> 00:46:09.799 one-on-one session with me, and I thought I was throwing in a lot of value, but 00:46:09.829 --> 00:46:11.389 it kind of sounds overwhelming, right? 00:46:11.389 --> 00:46:13.849 And so, like people who bought, and now we're six months in, they, and 00:46:13.849 --> 00:46:16.429 they're like, do I still have that one-on-one coaching session with you? 00:46:16.489 --> 00:46:21.499 Like, and maybe if I let more people buy it when they're ready, right? 00:46:21.499 --> 00:46:25.249 If I get them in and they, I solve their immediate problem, then the 00:46:25.249 --> 00:46:27.349 upsell the cross-sell is, is better. 00:46:27.409 --> 00:46:33.829 And so, um, not really generative ai, but just like kind of the theory of, I, I 00:46:33.834 --> 00:46:36.469 think we're moving towards, uh, away from. 00:46:37.084 --> 00:46:38.734 By the college degree. 00:46:38.854 --> 00:46:39.184 Right? 00:46:39.814 --> 00:46:40.054 Yeah. 00:46:40.194 --> 00:46:40.554 Yeah. 00:46:40.554 --> 00:46:43.714 And, and, and we're moving more towards like buy the skill, right? 00:46:43.714 --> 00:46:47.794 We're moving from like the big, like four, six year universities 00:46:47.794 --> 00:46:48.994 to the trade school again. 00:46:51.874 --> 00:46:52.114 Yeah. 00:46:52.714 --> 00:46:53.164 Awesome. 00:46:53.164 --> 00:46:59.014 Well, I wanna wrap up here with, um, uh, we touched on the 00:46:59.014 --> 00:47:00.364 stuff that, that you are doing. 00:47:00.394 --> 00:47:04.714 Uh, obviously you work for Automatic, automatic has a lot of different tools. 00:47:04.714 --> 00:47:05.344 Automatic. 00:47:05.344 --> 00:47:11.464 For those who don't know, uh, they run wordpress.com, own WOR WooCommerce, uh, 00:47:11.464 --> 00:47:14.704 and therefore Sensei Mail Poet, Jetpack. 00:47:15.994 --> 00:47:17.944 A lot of other things that I'm probably forgetting. 00:47:18.514 --> 00:47:20.704 Um, did I miss anything major there? 00:47:20.764 --> 00:47:22.234 Did I name all the major properties, 00:47:22.414 --> 00:47:25.024 Ronnie: but for anyone listening, pocket cast, it's my favorite 00:47:25.024 --> 00:47:27.334 Joe: pocket cast, of course. 00:47:27.634 --> 00:47:30.964 Um, God and Pocket cast is amazing. 00:47:31.024 --> 00:47:38.299 Uh, Hashtag not a sponsor, but like really, um, the web interface 00:47:38.299 --> 00:47:41.389 is still like the best of any podcast app I've ever used. 00:47:42.139 --> 00:47:44.179 Um, yeah, so Great point. 00:47:44.299 --> 00:47:47.359 Podcasts, uh, lots of other great stuff. 00:47:47.359 --> 00:47:52.639 So, um, is there like an overarching philosophy inside of Automatic? 00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:56.359 I know Automatic has for a long time been very like, let the 00:47:56.359 --> 00:47:58.069 teams do their things ship. 00:47:58.639 --> 00:48:02.089 Um, but as you've grown, maybe you've, you've gotten a more 00:48:02.089 --> 00:48:03.649 like com company wide philosophy. 00:48:03.654 --> 00:48:04.789 Does that question make sense? 00:48:05.254 --> 00:48:05.854 Ronnie: Yeah, it makes sense. 00:48:05.854 --> 00:48:06.934 And it's a little bit of both. 00:48:07.024 --> 00:48:13.834 I mean, I think, uh, Matt Mullenweg, our founder CEO o like posted in a publicly 00:48:13.834 --> 00:48:18.004 in a post status channel recently, like, you know, he thinks everyone across 00:48:18.004 --> 00:48:21.664 the entire WordPress ecosystem needs to learn AI deeply and experiment. 00:48:21.664 --> 00:48:24.424 And it's like, I think like everyone, it's taken over. 00:48:25.684 --> 00:48:30.214 Um, like it's something every team is talking about and is thinking about how 00:48:30.214 --> 00:48:34.714 to incorporate in their own way and that the teams have the autonomy and, you 00:48:34.714 --> 00:48:36.334 know, to figure out what works best. 00:48:36.574 --> 00:48:40.954 Everything from like, tools that we're using internally, like I now have a 00:48:40.954 --> 00:48:46.924 chatbot to ask like how, you know, like sense senses, subscriber numbers 00:48:46.924 --> 00:48:48.544 or changing over time or whatever. 00:48:48.544 --> 00:48:52.624 Instead of looking for a graph all the way up to like getting it into the hands of 00:48:52.684 --> 00:48:54.784 users, creating content in different ways. 00:48:55.504 --> 00:48:59.464 Also a big focus around, uh, we have so much content. 00:48:59.884 --> 00:49:06.694 Uh, forums and from courses and from blog posts, you know, about how to use 00:49:06.754 --> 00:49:10.774 WordPress, wordpress.com and all these sorts of things that like, you know, 00:49:10.774 --> 00:49:15.094 how can we use AI to, to help synthesize all that and, and get the user what they 00:49:15.094 --> 00:49:18.314 want to know from, from a support aspect. 00:49:18.694 --> 00:49:23.824 So it, it really runs the picture there, but it is like every team for themselves, 00:49:23.824 --> 00:49:31.654 we are working on like some centralized like, um, a p i tools that we can all use 00:49:31.654 --> 00:49:36.934 as, so that, that like some of the dirty behind the scenes under the hood work 00:49:36.934 --> 00:49:40.654 can be taken care of for us so we can just build faster, which is pretty cool. 00:49:41.494 --> 00:49:41.884 Joe: Nice. 00:49:41.884 --> 00:49:42.574 That's amazing. 00:49:42.634 --> 00:49:45.304 Um, we'll have to get into this at a later date, right? 00:49:45.304 --> 00:49:48.334 But like, customer service is probably a really good place 00:49:48.339 --> 00:49:49.804 where AI could be helpful, right? 00:49:49.884 --> 00:49:53.074 And yeah, this is like the first quote unquote chatbots. 00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:55.444 I feel like chatbot has a totally different meaning now 00:49:55.924 --> 00:49:57.244 than even like two years ago. 00:49:58.024 --> 00:50:01.444 But like, you would see that in, in the chat bots that, you know, you 00:50:01.444 --> 00:50:03.754 have little bubble on the site and it's like, Hey, how can I help you? 00:50:03.754 --> 00:50:06.574 Like the support chat. 00:50:06.844 --> 00:50:11.464 And it's like, oh, well, oh, it looks like you said the word migrate here. 00:50:11.464 --> 00:50:13.774 Like, have you looked at these FAQ articles and 00:50:14.434 --> 00:50:15.004 Ronnie: it was rarely 00:50:15.009 --> 00:50:15.514 Joe: what you needed. 00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:15.814 Right? 00:50:15.814 --> 00:50:16.954 It was rarely what you needed. 00:50:16.954 --> 00:50:17.044 Right. 00:50:17.334 --> 00:50:18.574 But like now Right. 00:50:18.574 --> 00:50:21.874 It feels like it'll be less rare. 00:50:22.804 --> 00:50:23.434 And also 00:50:23.434 --> 00:50:28.384 Ronnie: like the folks, you know, handling, uh, which their job is unreal. 00:50:28.384 --> 00:50:32.674 And I could never do like handling multiple live chats and tickets. 00:50:32.674 --> 00:50:32.764 I know. 00:50:32.769 --> 00:50:34.324 And like helping people all day long. 00:50:34.414 --> 00:50:38.524 Like they're the heroes, but they also have access to this data and 00:50:38.524 --> 00:50:40.054 it's like a lot to keep up with. 00:50:40.294 --> 00:50:40.684 Mm. 00:50:41.254 --> 00:50:47.944 Two, um, to help them like search and, and find the right way to say it that worked 00:50:47.944 --> 00:50:49.384 for someone in the past or something. 00:50:49.384 --> 00:50:49.684 Right. 00:50:49.744 --> 00:50:50.104 And 00:50:50.104 --> 00:50:50.314 Joe: yeah. 00:50:50.319 --> 00:50:51.034 That's pretty cool. 00:50:51.514 --> 00:50:52.114 Absolutely. 00:50:52.114 --> 00:50:57.784 I'm, I'm gonna, um, end with a, a question that I, I'm curious about, uh, cuz I know 00:50:57.784 --> 00:51:02.254 for a while every new hire at Automatic had to work support for two weeks. 00:51:02.254 --> 00:51:03.034 Did you have to do that? 00:51:03.424 --> 00:51:04.204 Ronnie: I did, yeah. 00:51:04.204 --> 00:51:07.564 And I had to do Woo support and I had never really used Woo. 00:51:07.834 --> 00:51:08.134 Oh wow. 00:51:08.134 --> 00:51:11.164 And so it was quite eye-opening and I'm, I'm due for 00:51:11.254 --> 00:51:12.604 Joe: getting back in there for a week. 00:51:12.904 --> 00:51:13.234 Nice. 00:51:13.234 --> 00:51:13.414 Yeah. 00:51:13.419 --> 00:51:16.564 Is that something that you can just like optionally do at any time or, uh, it's 00:51:16.569 --> 00:51:17.194 Ronnie: once a year. 00:51:17.224 --> 00:51:18.844 Everyone needs to do it, do a week. 00:51:18.849 --> 00:51:19.024 Oh, 00:51:19.444 --> 00:51:20.044 Joe: that's amazing. 00:51:20.104 --> 00:51:20.584 That's great. 00:51:20.614 --> 00:51:20.674 Yeah. 00:51:20.674 --> 00:51:22.684 That's, it's such a good, such a good thing. 00:51:22.684 --> 00:51:22.924 Right. 00:51:22.924 --> 00:51:28.354 I, um, just migrated to Transistor FM for my podcast host and, uh, the 00:51:28.354 --> 00:51:32.404 guy helping me support was also like the co-founder, uh, Justin Jackson. 00:51:32.404 --> 00:51:37.654 And I just thought that was like, Such a great thing, like, oh well, like, 00:51:37.864 --> 00:51:40.684 because you know, some people are like, I'm the ceo, and like, they're 00:51:40.684 --> 00:51:42.034 too good for like, the grunt work. 00:51:42.034 --> 00:51:44.824 But like, he's like, yeah, let me help you with that really 00:51:44.829 --> 00:51:45.094 Ronnie: quick. 00:51:45.364 --> 00:51:47.614 Just really, no, absolutely everyone in the company. 00:51:47.614 --> 00:51:51.574 I mean from like the accountants and the lawyers to the developers Wow. 00:51:51.579 --> 00:51:52.054 To everyone. 00:51:52.204 --> 00:51:53.374 So it's pretty 00:51:53.374 --> 00:51:53.704 Joe: cool. 00:51:53.974 --> 00:51:54.604 Yeah, I know. 00:51:54.604 --> 00:51:58.834 I've seen screenshots of like Matt jumping in too few times in time, which is cool. 00:51:58.834 --> 00:51:59.704 Yep, yep. 00:51:59.734 --> 00:52:00.814 Um, that's amazing. 00:52:00.814 --> 00:52:04.024 And then the last thing I'll just mention here is, uh, of the automatic 00:52:04.024 --> 00:52:07.294 products that I think are worth mentioning that I forgot to mention. 00:52:07.954 --> 00:52:09.064 Uh, we already mentioned Tumblr. 00:52:09.544 --> 00:52:13.324 Uh, day one, the journal app, which is super cool. 00:52:13.414 --> 00:52:17.854 Um, nice to be like, uh, I feel like Automatic is a good steward of that app. 00:52:18.484 --> 00:52:22.324 Uh, and simple note, which again, I feel automatic has 00:52:22.324 --> 00:52:23.794 been a good steward of that app. 00:52:23.794 --> 00:52:28.804 So, uh, looking for notes, especially for Android, I feel like, well, I mean, 00:52:29.644 --> 00:52:31.264 when I was on Android it was lacking. 00:52:31.434 --> 00:52:31.924 Yeah. 00:52:31.924 --> 00:52:34.309 Uh, Simple in a long time. 00:52:34.309 --> 00:52:35.389 Best joint based. 00:52:35.419 --> 00:52:36.469 Yeah, it's been a long time though. 00:52:36.769 --> 00:52:37.039 Yeah. 00:52:37.969 --> 00:52:43.069 Ronnie: So, oh, I mean, we've all in on open source and making the web better and 00:52:43.069 --> 00:52:45.109 not just through WordPress, which is yeah. 00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:45.799 Joe: Is pretty cool. 00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:47.029 Awesome. 00:52:47.089 --> 00:52:48.409 Well, Ronnie, this has been great. 00:52:48.409 --> 00:52:50.779 Thanks so much for joining us here on the livestream today. 00:52:51.019 --> 00:52:56.349 Thanks to, uh, EDMA and Wanda and all the lurkers, uh, who were watching 00:52:56.354 --> 00:53:00.169 or who will be listening to this later, uh, if people wanna learn more 00:53:00.169 --> 00:53:01.879 about you, where can they find you? 00:53:02.899 --> 00:53:06.709 Ronnie: I wrote a post on using Conmigo, which Khan Academy's 00:53:06.709 --> 00:53:08.839 ai on my blog@ronniebird.com. 00:53:08.899 --> 00:53:15.619 But you can also check us out on sensei lms.com, uh, for all the 00:53:15.619 --> 00:53:16.399 good stuff we're doing there. 00:53:17.479 --> 00:53:17.989 Joe: Nice. 00:53:17.989 --> 00:53:23.119 And, uh, yeah, I will make sure to have again, links in the description for 00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:25.639 both this video and the podcast episode. 00:53:25.644 --> 00:53:29.029 But, um, This episode has been presented by Sensei. 00:53:29.029 --> 00:53:34.099 So, uh, if you go to How I Built It slash sensei, you'll get a little, a 00:53:34.099 --> 00:53:39.229 little coupon code if you want to check out Sensei for your own online courses. 00:53:39.289 --> 00:53:43.579 Uh, I'm gonna find this blog post as we speak, um, and link 00:53:43.584 --> 00:53:45.109 that in the show notes as well. 00:53:45.109 --> 00:53:46.519 So, uh, oh, great. 00:53:46.519 --> 00:53:47.029 I found it. 00:53:47.059 --> 00:53:47.869 Oh, very timely. 00:53:47.869 --> 00:53:51.109 Thank you Ronnie, um, accounting Cafe. 00:53:51.109 --> 00:53:52.399 Thanks so much for being here. 00:53:52.399 --> 00:53:53.299 I appreciate you. 00:53:53.329 --> 00:53:54.169 Uh, really interesting. 00:53:54.169 --> 00:53:55.189 Thank you, Ronnie. 00:53:55.189 --> 00:53:56.929 Thanks so much for spending some extra time with us today. 00:53:57.059 --> 00:53:57.419 Yeah, it's fun. 00:53:57.419 --> 00:53:57.819 I appreciate it. 00:53:57.819 --> 00:53:58.179 A lot of fun. 00:53:58.399 --> 00:53:58.879 All right. 00:53:58.909 --> 00:53:59.119 Yep. 00:53:59.179 --> 00:54:02.119 Thank you to everybody watching slash listening. 00:54:02.539 --> 00:54:06.349 Uh, and until next time, get out there and build something.