{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":6.31,"endTime":10.12,"body":"Welcome to Demystifying Instructional Design, a podcast where I interview"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":10.12,"endTime":13.93,"body":"various instructional designers to figure out what instructional designers do."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":14.35,"endTime":16.209,"body":"I'm Rebecca Hogue, your podcast host."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":16.87,"endTime":20.98,"body":"If you enjoyed this podcast, please consider subscribing or leaving"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":20.98,"endTime":23.95,"body":"a comment on the Show Notes blog post and consider"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":23.95,"endTime":26.92,"body":"helping to support the podcast with a donation to my"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":26.92,"endTime":27.79,"body":"Patreon account."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":28.06,"endTime":32.119,"body":"Welcome Autumm and Lance to Demystifying Instructional Design."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":32.14,"endTime":34.51,"body":"This is a bit of a different episode of a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":34.51,"endTime":34.99,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":35.0,"endTime":37.72,"body":"We're going to talk today a little bit about ChatGPT"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":37.72,"endTime":42.79,"body":"the AI phenomena that is lighting up higher ed anyways,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":43.09,"endTime":45.26,"body":"if not other spaces as well."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":45.28,"endTime":47.23,"body":"And so the first thing I'm going to ask is"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":47.38,"endTime":49.75,"body":"if you could do a quick introduction and give us"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":49.75,"endTime":50.98,"body":"a little bit of context."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":51.34,"endTime":55.09,"body":"And I'll start with my context is I teach instructional"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":55.09,"endTime":55.69,"body":"designers."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":56.02,"endTime":58.78,"body":"So I'm teaching at the master's level and my students"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":58.78,"endTime":60.01,"body":"are instructional designers."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":60.4,"endTime":64.87,"body":"And so for me, I'm looking at it largely as"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":64.87,"endTime":67.75,"body":"is this tool useful for my students?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":68.05,"endTime":70.57,"body":"That is the context that I have for it."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":71.44,"endTime":74.05,"body":"And I'll pass it over to Autumm and then Lance."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":74.62,"endTime":75.19,"body":"Hi."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":75.52,"endTime":76.93,"body":"I'm Autumm Caines."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":76.96,"endTime":81.73,"body":"I am an instructional designer in a faculty development office"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":81.73,"endTime":84.01,"body":"at the University of Michigan, Dearborn."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":84.07,"endTime":87.1,"body":"I always think it's important to add what office you're"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":87.1,"endTime":90.88,"body":"in when you're talking about instructional design, because as Rebecca's"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":90.88,"endTime":94.93,"body":"audience will know, the context in which you work is"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":94.93,"endTime":98.5,"body":"an instructional designer can have a huge impact in the"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":98.5,"endTime":99.62,"body":"type of work that you do."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":99.64,"endTime":104.41,"body":"So coming from the perspective of a faculty development office,"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":104.62,"endTime":107.98,"body":"it's more than just instructional technology and it's more than"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":107.98,"endTime":109.15,"body":"just instructional design."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":109.15,"endTime":110.8,"body":"It's also faculty development."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":110.92,"endTime":112.9,"body":"We can get into that a little bit more as"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":112.9,"endTime":113.5,"body":"we go forward."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":113.5,"endTime":117.01,"body":"But just to set up the context, I'm also instructional"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":117.01,"endTime":120.13,"body":"faculty at College Unbound where I know Lance from, and"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":120.13,"endTime":123.01,"body":"I actually know Lance from this podcast as well."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":123.02,"endTime":125.11,"body":"That's one of the reasons that I reached out to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":125.11,"endTime":128.05,"body":"Lance was because I heard him on this podcast and"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":128.259,"endTime":131.35,"body":"then we ended up becoming colleagues at College Unbound,"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":131.35,"endTime":134.11,"body":"But I teach two classes at College Unbound."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":134.11,"endTime":137.62,"body":"One is Digital Citizenship and the other one is Web"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":137.62,"endTime":139.45,"body":"and Digital Portfolio."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":139.75,"endTime":142.15,"body":"So that's just a little bit about my context in"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":142.15,"endTime":144.73,"body":"terms of where I'm coming atthings from, in terms"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":144.73,"endTime":145.24,"body":"of ChatGPT."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":145.75,"endTime":151.3,"body":"I have been looking into large language models since"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":151.3,"endTime":157.45,"body":"probably 2021 with the upset with the firing of Timnit"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":157.45,"endTime":161.02,"body":"Gebru at Google from when she was working, she was"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":161.02,"endTime":163.33,"body":"the head of Ethics and was working on the Lambda"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":163.42,"endTime":167.47,"body":"large language model and started paying attention to some of"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":167.47,"endTime":171.16,"body":"the advances that were happening in that technology around that."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":171.73,"endTime":173.2,"body":"So I do have a tendency to come at it"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":173.2,"endTime":176.05,"body":"from a little bit more of a critical and ethical"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":176.05,"endTime":176.91,"body":"perspective."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":176.92,"endTime":178.36,"body":"But I don't want to go for too long."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":178.39,"endTime":179.92,"body":"I want to turn things over to Lance and let"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":179.92,"endTime":180.85,"body":"him introduce himself."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":181.45,"endTime":181.89,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":181.9,"endTime":183.07,"body":"Hi, I'm Lance Eaton."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":183.07,"endTime":186.37,"body":"I am Director of Digital Pedagogy at College Unbound."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":186.94,"endTime":189.13,"body":"I would say what department I'm from, but we don't"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":189.13,"endTime":192.31,"body":"really have departments because we're still a new enough college"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":192.31,"endTime":194.92,"body":"and have that new college smell where there's lots of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":194.92,"endTime":197.92,"body":"different hats and ways that we try to work around"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":198.07,"endTime":200.23,"body":"action teams as opposed to traditional departments."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":200.23,"endTime":202.69,"body":"But if I did, it would probably be Academic Affairs,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":202.69,"endTime":204.46,"body":"which is I think where I mostly sit."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":204.7,"endTime":208.06,"body":"And my role is that mixture of working with faculty,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":208.06,"endTime":212.86,"body":"doing faculty development and kind of helping to support them"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":212.86,"endTime":217.75,"body":"in the development of teaching and learning courses and using"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":217.75,"endTime":218.68,"body":"different tools."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":218.68,"endTime":220.84,"body":"And sometimes that tool is a pen and pad and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":220.84,"endTime":224.41,"body":"sometimes it's an LMS and sometimes it's artificial intelligence."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":225.94,"endTime":230.74,"body":"For me, I've had a lot of interesting thinking around"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":230.74,"endTime":234.13,"body":"or just looking at AI for a couple of years"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":234.13,"endTime":234.6,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":234.61,"endTime":237.94,"body":"I just started to develop a more critical view of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":237.94,"endTime":239.92,"body":"technology over the 2010s."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":240.28,"endTime":243.13,"body":"It started to pop up on my radar and then"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":243.64,"endTime":246.16,"body":"really for much of the from the start of the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":246.16,"endTime":248.5,"body":"pandemic until bout a year and a half ago, I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":248.5,"endTime":251.02,"body":"was I guess that was halfway through the pandemic or"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":251.02,"endTime":252.22,"body":"whatever phase we're in now."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":252.37,"endTime":255.28,"body":"I was working at the Berkman Klein Center for Internet"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":255.28,"endTime":260.68,"body":"and Society and was both helping to run programs and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":260.68,"endTime":264.07,"body":"programing around Internet and society, and a lot of that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":264.07,"endTime":265.33,"body":"focused on AI."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":265.33,"endTime":268.18,"body":"And so I got to see a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":268.18,"endTime":271.42,"body":"people in the industry coming with those critical lenses."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":271.42,"endTime":273.52,"body":"And so that stuck in my head a lot, especially"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":273.52,"endTime":278.32,"body":"as ChatGPT became like the pet rock of the 2022-"},{"speaker":"Speaker 2","startTime":278.32,"endTime":281.8,"body":"2023."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":282.16,"endTime":286.0,"body":"And people really started to pay attention to a AI"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":286.06,"endTime":289.6,"body":"generative tools in a way that they certainly hadn't previously."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":290.08,"endTime":293.35,"body":"Thank you both very much for your introductions and a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":293.35,"endTime":294.76,"body":"little bit of context there."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":294.79,"endTime":299.05,"body":"I'd love to ask you a little bit about what"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":299.05,"endTime":302.5,"body":"guidance you're giving students regarding"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":302.54,"endTime":303.89,"body":"the use of Chat"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":304.37,"endTime":307.88,"body":"GPT And if you could tell me what that stands"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":307.88,"endTime":310.34,"body":"for, that would be really helpful because I think the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":310.34,"endTime":312.47,"body":"audience would find that useful."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":313.48,"endTime":318.37,"body":"It's a generative pre-trained Transformer ChatGPT"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":318.97,"endTime":321.16,"body":"And I do think that Lance is the perfect person"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":321.16,"endTime":323.02,"body":"to answer this."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":323.02,"endTime":325.75,"body":"I'm going to answer really briefly and just say that"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":326.2,"endTime":329.41,"body":"I was a little taken aback when this was first"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":329.41,"endTime":331.66,"body":"opened up, and I really wasn't sure what to do"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":331.66,"endTime":333.73,"body":"as a teacher. As an instructional designer."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":333.73,"endTime":335.71,"body":"I had some ideas, but as a teacher I felt"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":335.71,"endTime":336.54,"body":"a little lost."},{"speaker":"Speaker 1","startTime":336.55,"endTime":339.28,"body":"And working at College Unbound, Lance is the person that"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":339.28,"endTime":340.1,"body":"I go to."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":340.1,"endTime":343.9,"body":"When I have questions, right, And I knew people were"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":343.9,"endTime":344.89,"body":"going to be coming to me."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":344.89,"endTime":347.86,"body":"So I went to him and the school just responded"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":347.86,"endTime":350.71,"body":"in an amazing way that Lance is going to tell"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":350.71,"endTime":351.43,"body":"you more about now."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":351.97,"endTime":352.45,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":352.9,"endTime":353.23,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":353.38,"endTime":356.65,"body":"So this is again, being a fairly new school"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":356.65,"endTime":360.16,"body":"there's things we don't have always to fall back on."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":360.25,"endTime":363.73,"body":"And also a lot of our practice and thinking is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":363.73,"endTime":364.54,"body":"student centered."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":364.54,"endTime":367.15,"body":"And so I was playing with it, thinking about it"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":367.15,"endTime":369.67,"body":"as well along in terms of instructional design and students and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":369.67,"endTime":370.09,"body":"whatnot."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":370.09,"endTime":374.02,"body":"And I get an email from Autumm saying, I think"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":374.02,"endTime":375.34,"body":"I have a student that has used it."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":375.73,"endTime":379.27,"body":"And so that generated a discussion between me and her,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":379.27,"endTime":381.22,"body":"and it was at the end of the semester and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":381.22,"endTime":384.31,"body":"like there's so much else going on, it gave us"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":384.31,"endTime":386.62,"body":"an opportunity to really think about in this moment what"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":386.62,"endTime":390.13,"body":"is what is most useful to do."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":390.25,"endTime":393.64,"body":"And this is where I think both of our collaborative"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":393.64,"endTime":396.91,"body":"nature and the way that CU structures itself is to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":396.91,"endTime":399.57,"body":"go after the student wasn't the right approach."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":399.58,"endTime":401.2,"body":"There was a part of our reaction that was just"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":401.2,"endTime":405.13,"body":"like a hot dang! Like, go student for being that quick"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":405.13,"endTime":406.0,"body":"and figuring it out."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":406.12,"endTime":408.4,"body":"We had that moment and we celebrated that for a"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":408.4,"endTime":408.7,"body":"moment."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":408.85,"endTime":410.8,"body":"I want to give this person like some kudos for"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":410.8,"endTime":411.58,"body":"creativity."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":411.85,"endTime":415.06,"body":"We had the moment of just having that frustration and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":415.15,"endTime":417.01,"body":"a mixture of just not..."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":417.13,"endTime":420.1,"body":"Sometimes it's a little ego driven, but like not being"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":420.1,"endTime":421.78,"body":"happy that the student did it."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":422.2,"endTime":424.96,"body":"And then we just also were like, What's behind this?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":425.29,"endTime":428.11,"body":"And I think that's where we really got our momentum"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":428.11,"endTime":429.91,"body":"and what has gotten our momentum for our school as a"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":429.91,"endTime":432.88,"body":"whole is really understanding the students and their uses of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":432.88,"endTime":433.24,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":433.66,"endTime":436.15,"body":"I go back to I want to say it's folks"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":436.15,"endTime":441.82,"body":"like James Lange and when people are doing this type"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":441.82,"endTime":444.49,"body":"of thing, which is framed in all sorts of deficit"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":444.49,"endTime":447.67,"body":"language of they're cheating, they're stealing, they're what have you,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":448.09,"endTime":451.51,"body":"they're often indicating things aren't working for them."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":451.51,"endTime":454.15,"body":"They're often indicating this is more of a sign for"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":454.15,"endTime":456.31,"body":"help, a sign for a lack of trust, lots of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":456.31,"endTime":456.96,"body":"different things."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":456.97,"endTime":460.39,"body":"And so very quickly, me and Autumm realized like, why"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":460.39,"endTime":461.55,"body":"don't we try to find out?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":461.62,"endTime":464.05,"body":"And so our first goal was to craft an email."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":464.05,"endTime":466.45,"body":"And I sent it out to students saying, Hey, this"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":466.45,"endTime":467.14,"body":"tool exists."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":467.14,"endTime":469.06,"body":"And I think some students may have used it and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":469.06,"endTime":472.03,"body":"we are interested in learning more about it in this"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":472.03,"endTime":473.08,"body":"non-punitive way."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":473.08,"endTime":475.72,"body":"We just want to understand what led you to it."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":475.72,"endTime":478.39,"body":"What might we be able to learn about why you"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":478.39,"endTime":479.56,"body":"found your way to this tool?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":480.04,"endTime":481.45,"body":"Nobody responded to that."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":481.69,"endTime":482.9,"body":"We hoped... nobody did."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":483.04,"endTime":483.76,"body":"That was okay."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":484.12,"endTime":487.06,"body":"My partner recommended, well what if you did an anonymous survey?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":487.48,"endTime":489.22,"body":"And so we put that out to our students at"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":489.22,"endTime":490.36,"body":"the very end of the semester."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":490.36,"endTime":494.02,"body":"We probably got, I think, four or five students, and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":494.02,"endTime":496.18,"body":"this was at the end of the semester and during"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":496.18,"endTime":500.5,"body":"break that before everything really exploded, before you were seeing"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":500.8,"endTime":504.91,"body":"references to it in podcasts and in mainstream stuff, we"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":504.91,"endTime":507.1,"body":"had three or four students who were saying like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":507.1,"endTime":509.05,"body":"like we started to use this and we're using it"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":509.05,"endTime":509.89,"body":"in these ways."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":510.37,"endTime":512.169,"body":"And so we thought that was interesting."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":512.169,"endTime":515.71,"body":"And that kind of jolted me to think about the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":515.719,"endTime":516.55,"body":"semester for us"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":516.55,"endTime":518.169,"body":"started January 9th."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":518.89,"endTime":522.19,"body":"This is before most schools start their fall semester."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":522.19,"endTime":523.87,"body":"And so we needed something in place."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":524.11,"endTime":528.7,"body":"And so we developed a policy that we felt was"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":528.7,"endTime":533.2,"body":"like... recognizing we don't really understand the fullest implications of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":533.2,"endTime":533.95,"body":"these tools."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":534.37,"endTime":537.16,"body":"We don't want to just do a blanket ban and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":537.16,"endTime":539.44,"body":"be like, Nope, you can't use it under any condition."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":539.5,"endTime":542.35,"body":"And we wanted to create safe conditions that if students"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":542.35,"endTime":546.13,"body":"use it, then it can they can identify that they"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":546.13,"endTime":546.58,"body":"use it."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":546.58,"endTime":549.58,"body":"So that can also invite questions and understanding and things"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":549.58,"endTime":550.0,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":550.36,"endTime":553.09,"body":"I think the potential for it can be is as"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":553.09,"endTime":556.33,"body":"vast as some of the challenges and the concerns around"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":556.33,"endTime":556.54,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":556.54,"endTime":556.75,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":556.75,"endTime":558.55,"body":"So there's a lot of knee jerk reactions."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":558.67,"endTime":561.49,"body":"There's a lot of valid reactions about the ways this"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":561.5,"endTime":565.57,"body":"interferes with how we demonstrate learning by students."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":565.81,"endTime":568.72,"body":"But I think there's lots of possibilities for us to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":568.75,"endTime":569.59,"body":"leverage it."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":570.31,"endTime":573.16,"body":"If we can find versions of it that aren't steeped"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":573.16,"endTime":575.08,"body":"in all sorts of exploitative practices."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":575.08,"endTime":577.11,"body":"But I'll pass to Autumm for her take."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":577.84,"endTime":578.17,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":578.17,"endTime":582.49,"body":"So when I saw some responses that I thought potentially"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":582.49,"endTime":587.89,"body":"could be synthetic text, my first thought wasn't like cheating."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":588.31,"endTime":589.36,"body":"My first thought."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":589.36,"endTime":591.01,"body":"like Lance said, it was curiosity."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":591.01,"endTime":593.65,"body":"It was like, wow, if they figured this out at"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":593.65,"endTime":595.96,"body":"the same time, I did worry."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":596.26,"endTime":597.19,"body":"It's so new."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":597.19,"endTime":598.72,"body":"It's such a new technology."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":598.99,"endTime":601.39,"body":"This is December of 2022."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":601.54,"endTime":606.43,"body":"It dropped on November 30th of 2022. The technology has"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":606.43,"endTime":608.2,"body":"been around for a while now."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":608.23,"endTime":609.79,"body":"We can go all the way back to the sixties"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":609.79,"endTime":612.1,"body":"if we're just talking about chat bots."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":612.37,"endTime":612.85,"body":"Eliza."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":612.92,"endTime":613.82,"body":"was in the sixties."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":613.82,"endTime":615.07,"body":"Weizenbaum's ELIZA."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":615.11,"endTime":619.91,"body":"But in terms of the transformer technology, the idea of"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":619.91,"endTime":623.03,"body":"using neural networks around large language models to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":623.03,"endTime":627.35,"body":"be able to create text so smooth and so clean."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":627.35,"endTime":629.69,"body":"And so it sounds so convincing, right?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":630.38,"endTime":633.26,"body":"That's been around for probably about two years now, but"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":633.26,"endTime":634.73,"body":"you always had to pay for it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":635.15,"endTime":637.52,"body":"It's always been behind some kind of paywall or"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":637.52,"endTime":639.05,"body":"part of some type of product."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":639.05,"endTime":641.72,"body":"I mean just to open it up to the entire"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":641.72,"endTime":645.31,"body":"world right at the beginning of finals for higher education."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":645.32,"endTime":647.44,"body":"That's not insignificant."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":647.45,"endTime":650.36,"body":"Whenever I talk about this, I always think it's really"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":650.36,"endTime":652.64,"body":"important to put the context around it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":652.64,"endTime":656.54,"body":"Yes, it's a huge jump in terms of technology, right?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":656.54,"endTime":659.15,"body":"In terms of the tech that is going on, the"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":659.15,"endTime":662.63,"body":"interface, the way that you use it, the smoothness, all"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":662.63,"endTime":662.91,"body":"of that."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":662.93,"endTime":665.21,"body":"But a big part of the hype, a big part"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":665.21,"endTime":668.3,"body":"of everything that's going on around this has to do"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":668.3,"endTime":670.76,"body":"with the fact that it's free and the timing in"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":670.76,"endTime":672.05,"body":"which it was released."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":672.5,"endTime":674.87,"body":"Those are just two really big parts of it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":674.87,"endTime":679.4,"body":"And especially in that moment, I was hearing all of"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":679.4,"endTime":683.57,"body":"these news articles and things coming out about people being"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":683.57,"endTime":685.81,"body":"really punitive with their students."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":685.82,"endTime":689.15,"body":"I read an article about a student who failed an"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":689.15,"endTime":692.93,"body":"entire class when it was discovered that they had used"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":692.93,"endTime":693.92,"body":"this tool."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":693.98,"endTime":697.16,"body":"And it's my understanding also, there's really not a way"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":697.16,"endTime":701.42,"body":"to prove without any doubt whatsoever that a student used"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":701.42,"endTime":701.96,"body":"this tool."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":701.96,"endTime":704.9,"body":"You can run the text through some of the detectors,"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":704.9,"endTime":706.57,"body":"but those are flawed."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":706.58,"endTime":709.13,"body":"They're flawed in my testing of this."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":709.13,"endTime":712.52,"body":"And I don't think anybody even tries to pretend that"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":712.52,"endTime":717.05,"body":"they can return a 100% positive or 100% negative."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":717.35,"endTime":720.28,"body":"There's tons of false negatives and false positives."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":720.29,"endTime":722.12,"body":"So I really... I guess I say all of this"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":722.12,"endTime":724.91,"body":"to say I'm not surprised that the students, when we"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":724.91,"endTime":726.74,"body":"sent them that email and just said, hey, we're just"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":726.74,"endTime":728.99,"body":"curious, did you use this?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":728.99,"endTime":731.48,"body":"Have you heard of this tool that nobody responded?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":731.48,"endTime":735.32,"body":"Because like I said, there were tons of articles and"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":735.53,"endTime":738.86,"body":"news releases out there with people saying that they were"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":738.86,"endTime":741.26,"body":"punishing students for using this tech."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":741.26,"endTime":745.01,"body":"So if I were a student and I used it out of curiosity"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":745.26,"endTime":747.17,"body":"and I also think it's a little bit crazy to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":747.17,"endTime":750.71,"body":"say that students wouldn't use it if I were a"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":750.71,"endTime":752.21,"body":"student, I'd be curious."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":752.21,"endTime":754.28,"body":"I'd want to try it out at least, and I"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":754.28,"endTime":756.29,"body":"don't know if I would actually submit that work, but"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":756.29,"endTime":758.87,"body":"I'd be tempted to, especially if it was the end"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":758.87,"endTime":759.95,"body":"of the semester."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":759.95,"endTime":761.87,"body":"And I was really busy and I had a lot"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":761.87,"endTime":762.83,"body":"of pressure."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":763.01,"endTime":767.6,"body":"I don't know of any academic integrity statement from any"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":767.6,"endTime":771.83,"body":"university that mentions AI generated anything."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":772.07,"endTime":775.82,"body":"I don't know of any classroom policy that mentions any"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":775.82,"endTime":777.29,"body":"of this kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":777.29,"endTime":781.07,"body":"So I think it really does challenge us to think"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":781.07,"endTime":786.38,"body":"about what we mean by cheating and to critically evaluate"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":786.74,"endTime":790.97,"body":"and take, retake stock in what we mean, what's valuable"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":790.97,"endTime":792.1,"body":"in an education."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":792.1,"endTime":794.6,"body":"I felt really lucky that I was working for"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":794.6,"endTime":797.96,"body":"College Unbound during this time so that I could think"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":797.96,"endTime":800.15,"body":"about these kind of things with an amazing partner like"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":800.15,"endTime":803.0,"body":"Lance and with a school that is student centered and"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":803.0,"endTime":804.08,"body":"student focused."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":804.23,"endTime":805.76,"body":"That's where I'm at with it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":805.76,"endTime":807.32,"body":"With students right now, I guess I'll throw in at"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":807.32,"endTime":807.56,"body":"the end."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":807.57,"endTime":809.87,"body":"My class policy right now is actually a little bit"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":809.87,"endTime":812.51,"body":"more broad than the college's"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":812.51,"endTime":813.44,"body":"policy"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":813.44,"endTime":815.63,"body":"I actually say it's fine if you want to use"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":815.63,"endTime":815.75,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":815.75,"endTime":818.15,"body":"Just tell me that you used it and describe how"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":818.15,"endTime":818.75,"body":"you used it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":818.75,"endTime":821.93,"body":"I just think it's way too early right now to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":821.96,"endTime":824.09,"body":"be punishing students for it."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":824.36,"endTime":827.48,"body":"You mentioned something about a one credit course, and I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":827.48,"endTime":829.22,"body":"would love to hear more about that."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":829.46,"endTime":830.63,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":830.78,"endTime":834.35,"body":"To just build off of Autumm's point about her policy,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":834.35,"endTime":836.66,"body":"like we created a policy that we put out as"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":836.9,"endTime":840.71,"body":"this is our temporary policy, folks, individual folks are welcome"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":840.71,"endTime":843.08,"body":"to adjust as makes sense for their classrooms."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":843.08,"endTime":844.67,"body":"And I think that was, again, like we want to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":844.67,"endTime":845.93,"body":"be both student centered."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":845.93,"endTime":849.59,"body":"We want to empower faculty to make the right decisions"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":849.59,"endTime":850.85,"body":"on behalf of their students."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":850.85,"endTime":854.44,"body":"That was another piece of this as I went into"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":854.57,"endTime":858.29,"body":"the winter break in conversations me and Autumm had, I just"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":858.29,"endTime":859.49,"body":"had this brain blast."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":859.49,"endTime":862.43,"body":"That's Jimmy Neutron reference for folks that are interested."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":862.67,"endTime":866.09,"body":"I just had this brain blast of like quintessential way I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":866.09,"endTime":870.59,"body":"could help figure out this challenge at College Unbound"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":870.59,"endTime":872.9,"body":"would be to do it in a way that was"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":872.9,"endTime":873.74,"body":"student centered."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":873.92,"endTime":877.07,"body":"And so like literally got out, I had this"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":877.07,"endTime":879.74,"body":"idea, I got on my phone, I texted the provost"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":879.74,"endTime":882.47,"body":"and I was just like, What about this for an idea?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":882.47,"endTime":885.05,"body":"What if we do a one credit class that is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":885.05,"endTime":889.4,"body":"filled with students who are going to play with, learn"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":889.4,"endTime":893.46,"body":"about and really think about ChatGPT and other AI"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":893.54,"endTime":894.62,"body":"generative tools."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":894.62,"endTime":898.46,"body":"And through that class we can create a recommended set"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":898.46,"endTime":900.98,"body":"of policies for institutional usage."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":901.37,"endTime":903.11,"body":"Instantly got back, thumbs up,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":903.11,"endTime":906.26,"body":"let's do this. Which also meant that oh I have to figure"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":906.26,"endTime":906.95,"body":"out this course."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":907.25,"endTime":908.36,"body":"So that was my winter break."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":908.72,"endTime":911.09,"body":"And then I realized there was another iteration or rather"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":911.09,"endTime":912.29,"body":"again, my partner in"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":912.42,"endTime":915.41,"body":"conversation came up with this really great insight of what"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":915.45,"endTime":917.43,"body":"if you could also connect it to writing courses."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":917.43,"endTime":921.06,"body":"And so we're doing this one credit course in Session,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":921.06,"endTime":924.87,"body":"One of 17 week semesters and we"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":924.87,"endTime":927.3,"body":"do eight week courses in session one, and eight week"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":927.3,"endTime":930.02,"body":"courses in session two, and then sometimes sixteen week courses."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":930.03,"endTime":932.76,"body":"So in Session one, I'm doing a one credit course"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":932.76,"endTime":935.04,"body":"where we're going to develop a rough draft of policies"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":935.05,"endTime":939.27,"body":"around usage for faculty and students. In session two, I'm"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":939.27,"endTime":942.39,"body":"going to try to connect with students that are taking"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":942.39,"endTime":945.33,"body":"our writing course and have them sign up for this"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":945.33,"endTime":947.82,"body":"class, and it'll really be an opportunity to kick the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":947.82,"endTime":949.26,"body":"tires on the policy."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":949.29,"endTime":950.76,"body":"So they'll be taking a writing class."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":950.76,"endTime":953.73,"body":"they'll be using this policy to inform how they're going"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":953.73,"endTime":957.03,"body":"to use the AI generative tools."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":957.03,"endTime":959.25,"body":"And that will be a bit of like really trying"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":959.25,"endTime":961.29,"body":"to figure out like, what are the holes in it, what"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":961.29,"endTime":962.55,"body":"are the ways that it really works."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":962.55,"endTime":965.73,"body":"And in conversation with the faculty teaching those courses as"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":965.73,"endTime":967.74,"body":"well, so that by the end of the semester we'll"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":967.74,"endTime":970.47,"body":"have had students had a central role in developing it"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":970.47,"endTime":973.8,"body":"and testing it and putting forward the recommendations for it."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":974.16,"endTime":976.95,"body":"That's where we are with it, we're about three and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":976.95,"endTime":980.04,"body":"a half weeks into the one credit course and it's"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":980.04,"endTime":982.37,"body":"just been this there's about eight students in it and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":982.44,"endTime":986.79,"body":"it's been this rich conversation around like them getting to use"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":986.79,"endTime":989.58,"body":"it and them getting to like really start to see"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":989.58,"endTime":991.05,"body":"the answers it comes back with."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":991.05,"endTime":993.99,"body":"And then also them delving into other content, other things"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":993.99,"endTime":995.76,"body":"that are helping inform their opinions."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":996.0,"endTime":998.4,"body":"The week by week things change because in the second"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":998.4,"endTime":1001.82,"body":"week we got the Time magazine report about how in"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1001.82,"endTime":1005.3,"body":"order to do content moderation of all of the horrible"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1005.3,"endTime":1007.73,"body":"stuff on the Internet that they scrawled in order to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1007.73,"endTime":1011.81,"body":"like, make this open, AI, was paying Kenyan workers $2"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1011.81,"endTime":1014.27,"body":"an hour for content moderation, which is just another way"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1014.27,"endTime":1016.7,"body":"of saying they paid Kenyan workers $2 an hour to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1016.7,"endTime":1019.1,"body":"be traumatized by like the worst of the Internet."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1019.58,"endTime":1022.67,"body":"So every week there's these new things that help to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1022.67,"endTime":1025.88,"body":"flesh out our thinking about it and conversations that we"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1025.88,"endTime":1026.27,"body":"have."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1026.449,"endTime":1028.61,"body":"They hear things like this and they're like, this needs"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1028.61,"endTime":1029.99,"body":"to be on like the UN's agenda."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1029.99,"endTime":1030.8,"body":"This is not correct."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1030.81,"endTime":1034.339,"body":"Like the ways to get like really invested and start"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1034.339,"endTime":1036.23,"body":"to challenge their considerations."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1036.53,"endTime":1038.99,"body":"One of the earliest points that was just great"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1038.99,"endTime":1042.949,"body":"was I had students read some of Autumm's work and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1043.22,"endTime":1046.79,"body":"raising some of those questions around what does it mean"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1046.79,"endTime":1049.4,"body":"to sign up and get an account with Open AI"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1049.4,"endTime":1051.11,"body":"where it asks for your name, it asks for your"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1051.11,"endTime":1052.94,"body":"email and your cell number?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1053.42,"endTime":1056.42,"body":"And we got into a discussion around like digital redlining."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1056.42,"endTime":1059.69,"body":"And our students are predominantly students of color."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1059.69,"endTime":1063.68,"body":"And so this generated part of when I created the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1063.68,"endTime":1066.41,"body":"course or part of when I started to create the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1066.41,"endTime":1069.02,"body":"assignments and the goal was for them to use or"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1069.02,"endTime":1073.01,"body":"engage with these tools, I recognized they would have"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1073.01,"endTime":1075.11,"body":"to create accounts or they would have to have access."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1075.11,"endTime":1078.11,"body":"And so I've offered my credentials for them to log"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1078.11,"endTime":1079.07,"body":"in and to use."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1079.07,"endTime":1082.34,"body":"And as a result of that conversation I had, I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1082.34,"endTime":1084.68,"body":"probably at this point, I've had half the students ask"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1084.71,"endTime":1088.1,"body":"to use the credentials to use it so that they"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1088.1,"endTime":1091.04,"body":"don't have to give up their own personal information to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1091.16,"endTime":1094.79,"body":"an entity that has 10 billion dollars invested by Microsoft and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1094.79,"endTime":1097.96,"body":"is like gathering up all sorts of data on the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1097.97,"endTime":1098.48,"body":"users."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1099.02,"endTime":1101.87,"body":"So yeah, that that is all where we are now"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1101.87,"endTime":1104.45,"body":"is we're moving into the point in the course where"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1104.45,"endTime":1106.73,"body":"like, besides playing with it, we're really thinking about what"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1106.73,"endTime":1108.29,"body":"would we recommend for usage."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1108.47,"endTime":1110.6,"body":"That's the next discussion we're starting to have."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1111.11,"endTime":1113.93,"body":"Getting back to your question, Rebecca, in terms of how"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1113.93,"endTime":1117.74,"body":"we're using it with students, I have been pretty vocal"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1117.74,"endTime":1120.35,"body":"and I've written a couple of blog posts that you"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1120.35,"endTime":1124.73,"body":"can link in your show notes, really being critical of"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1124.73,"endTime":1126.65,"body":"the idea of using it with students."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1127.13,"endTime":1132.86,"body":"I'm really hoping that those faculty who do teach in"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1132.86,"endTime":1136.16,"body":"a discipline where it makes sense to use it, take"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1136.16,"endTime":1140.54,"body":"a pause, take a beat, and think critically about how"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1140.54,"endTime":1142.67,"body":"they're going to ask students to use it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1142.67,"endTime":1148.58,"body":"And I suggested some techniques that I could employ to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1148.61,"endTime":1151.4,"body":"make it so that they weren't forcing their students to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1151.4,"endTime":1151.91,"body":"use it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1151.91,"endTime":1154.28,"body":"They weren't forcing their students to sign up for accounts"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1154.28,"endTime":1155.48,"body":"at the bare minimum."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1155.87,"endTime":1158.45,"body":"But I guess I just want to say that I"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1158.45,"endTime":1159.2,"body":"do recognize that."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1159.2,"endTime":1163.13,"body":"I think that's discipline specific and especially, of course, I"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1163.13,"endTime":1166.28,"body":"just love the idea of a course that is specifically"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1166.28,"endTime":1171.92,"body":"designed to gather student voice and get student input about"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1172.19,"endTime":1175.1,"body":"university policy, about college policy."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1175.79,"endTime":1178.25,"body":"I can totally see it. That's a situation where, yes,"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1178.25,"endTime":1181.28,"body":"the students should be informed to the point where"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1181.28,"endTime":1184.49,"body":"they actually have experience with the tool so that they"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1184.49,"endTime":1186.83,"body":"can give informed input."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1186.83,"endTime":1190.4,"body":"But I love the fact, Lance, that you created like"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1190.85,"endTime":1192.41,"body":"a shared account."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1192.68,"endTime":1196.94,"body":"So that way nobody's putting your personal information at the"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1196.94,"endTime":1199.58,"body":"account level, but also it muddles up and it creates"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1199.61,"endTime":1203.36,"body":"noise in terms of the questions that they're asking, right?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1203.36,"endTime":1205.19,"body":"Because it's not just the creation of that account, but"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1205.19,"endTime":1207.35,"body":"also the inputs that you're putting into it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1207.86,"endTime":1210.53,"body":"And so by having everybody share one account."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1210.8,"endTime":1212.12,"body":"I think that does a"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1212.3,"endTime":1215.3,"body":"Greater good in terms of protecting students."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1215.69,"endTime":1216.92,"body":"That's your influence at hand."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1217.7,"endTime":1218.31,"body":"Makes my day."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1218.33,"endTime":1219.02,"body":"I thank you for that."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1220.37,"endTime":1222.89,"body":"My next question is a little bit about what do"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1222.89,"endTime":1224.45,"body":"we do for instructors?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1224.57,"endTime":1224.93,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1224.96,"endTime":1227.69,"body":"What advice are we giving instructors?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1227.96,"endTime":1228.68,"body":"How can they?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1228.68,"endTime":1229.58,"body":"How should they?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1229.58,"endTime":1230.96,"body":"How should they not?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1231.38,"endTime":1234.08,"body":"What do we tell instructors about this new tool?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1234.23,"endTime":1239.09,"body":"I personally don't think there's anything wrong with waiting before"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1239.09,"endTime":1239.99,"body":"you use it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1239.99,"endTime":1240.71,"body":"So I guess there is."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1240.92,"endTime":1242.18,"body":"What do we tell instructors?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1242.18,"endTime":1244.31,"body":"It depends on what the instructors coming to us with"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1244.31,"endTime":1245.69,"body":"needs for, right?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1245.69,"endTime":1248.63,"body":"So if they're coming to me and they're saying I'm"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1248.63,"endTime":1252.83,"body":"worried about cheating, that's a different conversation than I'm intrigued"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1252.83,"endTime":1254.32,"body":"and I want to use it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1254.33,"endTime":1254.81,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1255.32,"endTime":1257.72,"body":"So if it's I'm intrigued and I want to use"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1257.72,"endTime":1260.36,"body":"it, my first response might be, Do you really need"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1260.36,"endTime":1260.81,"body":"to use it?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1260.81,"endTime":1262.4,"body":"Do you really need to use it right now?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1262.55,"endTime":1263.63,"body":"What are you doing with it?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1263.63,"endTime":1264.59,"body":"What are you teaching?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1264.59,"endTime":1266.99,"body":"Is it directly related to what you're teaching?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1267.35,"endTime":1268.82,"body":"But is there a way that you could use it"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1268.82,"endTime":1271.34,"body":"and demo it for the students rather than making the"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1271.34,"endTime":1272.9,"body":"students have accounts?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1272.9,"endTime":1275.09,"body":"If you do want the students to have an account, could"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1275.09,"endTime":1277.73,"body":"you have a shared account or could you talk to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1277.73,"endTime":1283.16,"body":"the students about their understanding of privacy and digital literacy?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1283.16,"endTime":1285.92,"body":"Like I would say, if you're teaching like a digital"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1285.92,"endTime":1290.39,"body":"literacy, digital citizenship course, where are your students at?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1290.39,"endTime":1293.57,"body":"Is this like a level two, three, four kind"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1293.57,"endTime":1295.97,"body":"of course, if this is intro, they might not have"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1295.97,"endTime":1297.23,"body":"a good understanding."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1297.23,"endTime":1301.03,"body":"Most people don't have a good understanding of digital privacy."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1301.04,"endTime":1303.89,"body":"I just think that before you dive into using these"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1303.89,"endTime":1307.31,"body":"tools, you should have a good foundation of data sharing"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1307.31,"endTime":1311.12,"body":"and data collection and you should have examined some cases"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1311.12,"endTime":1314.24,"body":"of where things have gone wrong, data breaches and things"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1314.24,"endTime":1314.69,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1314.69,"endTime":1317.6,"body":"You should have an idea of what kind of things"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1317.6,"endTime":1318.92,"body":"could go wrong."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1318.92,"endTime":1320.75,"body":"If they're coming to me and they're asking me about"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1320.75,"endTime":1324.05,"body":"cheating because they're worried about cheating, I usually try to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1324.05,"endTime":1329.18,"body":"do some damage control around helping them to move away"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1329.18,"endTime":1332.69,"body":"from punitive approaches because I don't think they really do"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1332.69,"endTime":1333.38,"body":"any good."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1333.71,"endTime":1335.66,"body":"At the end of the day, I think they just"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1335.66,"endTime":1339.44,"body":"degrade our students' trust in us and our students' trust"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1339.44,"endTime":1340.67,"body":"in higher education."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1340.67,"endTime":1343.04,"body":"And I guess I try to talk to the instructor"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1343.04,"endTime":1346.67,"body":"and remind them how much is really built on that"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1346.67,"endTime":1351.38,"body":"trust, how much of education comes from that place, and"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1351.8,"endTime":1356.57,"body":"help them to realize that they're sacrificing so much"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1356.57,"endTime":1357.08,"body":"more."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1357.08,"endTime":1360.14,"body":"If they take a punitive approach, they're sacrificing so much"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1360.14,"endTime":1363.11,"body":"more than they would be if they took a more"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1363.14,"endTime":1366.83,"body":"open approach, trying to understand where the students are coming"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1366.83,"endTime":1370.43,"body":"from and trying to figure out how this really aligns"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1370.43,"endTime":1373.37,"body":"with their outcomes and the things that they're trying to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1373.37,"endTime":1374.78,"body":"do in their course."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1374.78,"endTime":1378.14,"body":"So I usually bring it back to some type of"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1378.14,"endTime":1381.02,"body":"helping them to articulate some type of policy for their"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1381.02,"endTime":1384.74,"body":"syllabus, because it all comes back to expectations, right?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1384.74,"endTime":1388.46,"body":"It all comes back to them really thinking about in"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1388.46,"endTime":1391.52,"body":"their heart and what's going on with them, their expectations"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1391.52,"endTime":1397.04,"body":"for the course, the affordances, the tools like ChatGPT and"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1397.04,"endTime":1401.3,"body":"DALL-E and all of these other generative tools can afford"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1401.3,"endTime":1405.05,"body":"students and helping them to articulate to students why it's"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1405.05,"endTime":1407.63,"body":"important and what they learn in the process."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1407.99,"endTime":1412.76,"body":"In terms of ChatGPT, it's not a matter of we"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1412.76,"endTime":1414.29,"body":"want to create essays."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1414.44,"endTime":1415.79,"body":"That's not the point."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1415.79,"endTime":1418.02,"body":"If that's the point, we're doing it wrong."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1418.05,"endTime":1418.65,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1418.67,"endTime":1422.6,"body":"The point is thinking through and being nuanced in your"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1422.6,"endTime":1422.93,"body":"thinking."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1422.93,"endTime":1425.6,"body":"So nuanced in your thinking that you're putting it down"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1425.6,"endTime":1430.04,"body":"on paper or on a screen and you're scrutinizing and"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1430.04,"endTime":1433.7,"body":"evaluating every word, every paragraph, every sentence to make sure"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1433.7,"endTime":1436.1,"body":"that things fit together and flow together."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1436.1,"endTime":1437.63,"body":"It's that process of writing."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1437.63,"endTime":1441.23,"body":"It's not the product of the essay and helping faculty"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1441.23,"endTime":1444.23,"body":"to have that conversation with their students and helping faculty"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1444.23,"endTime":1447.02,"body":"to articulate that meaning to their students in a way"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1447.02,"endTime":1449.63,"body":"that helps the student to understand, I think is so"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1449.63,"endTime":1451.88,"body":"much more powerful than wagging your finger."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1451.88,"endTime":1453.89,"body":"And if you do this, we're going to punish you."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1454.61,"endTime":1455.66,"body":"I'm going to turn it over to Lance."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1455.66,"endTime":1456.92,"body":"Let him talk about it a little bit."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1457.19,"endTime":1458.03,"body":"100%."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1458.39,"endTime":1460.07,"body":"Everything Autumm just said."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1460.16,"endTime":1464.03,"body":"I think the only areas I would add is I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1464.03,"endTime":1467.48,"body":"think there's some great value in them using it to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1467.48,"endTime":1469.22,"body":"enhance some of their own work."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1469.22,"endTime":1471.38,"body":"And I think that's great with the caveats of the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1471.38,"endTime":1473.99,"body":"potential concerns around privacy that we've already mentioned."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1473.99,"endTime":1476.48,"body":"I think if they are going to do that, I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1476.48,"endTime":1481.04,"body":"think it is important for them to also be citing"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1481.04,"endTime":1484.31,"body":"and identifying where their course, where their thinking is influenced."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1484.31,"endTime":1487.13,"body":"And I come from this having worked with faculty"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1487.13,"endTime":1489.83,"body":"who have done the things that they don't like, that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1489.83,"endTime":1491.21,"body":"they don't like their students to do."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1491.21,"endTime":1495.77,"body":"And so just really demonstrating transparency again in how they're"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1495.77,"endTime":1497.04,"body":"using it with their students."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1497.06,"endTime":1500.24,"body":"The other thing that comes to mind in using it"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1500.24,"endTime":1503.81,"body":"is and this is something, again, from conversations with"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1503.81,"endTime":1508.49,"body":"Autumm, is really emphasizing, no matter what they think of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1508.49,"endTime":1510.69,"body":"it right now, I'm going to, going to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1510.71,"endTime":1511.25,"body":"take the quote from you Autumm."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1512.27,"endTime":1515.48,"body":"This is the, quote unquote, dumbest that AI is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1515.48,"endTime":1516.2,"body":"going to be."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1516.23,"endTime":1518.39,"body":"So I see a lot of dismissal and I see"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1518.39,"endTime":1520.09,"body":"a lot of it's fine, like it's fine."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1520.1,"endTime":1521.3,"body":"I'll catch them anyways."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1521.7,"endTime":1524.69,"body":"And there's a whole other discourse around that approach or"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1524.69,"endTime":1525.77,"body":"around those concerns."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1525.77,"endTime":1531.02,"body":"But I think undermining it or not recognizing like now"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1531.02,"endTime":1534.59,"body":"with this research preview, it is getting better because we're"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1534.59,"endTime":1536.09,"body":"all training it to be better."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1536.45,"endTime":1539.48,"body":"And I think within that is really highlighting what I'm"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1539.48,"endTime":1540.29,"body":"starting to see."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1540.29,"endTime":1542.96,"body":"And I want to say, is Anna Mills"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1543.29,"endTime":1546.05,"body":"and a couple other folks have, Maha Bali I think,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1546.05,"endTime":1548.18,"body":"has done this as well where they they're sharing"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1548.18,"endTime":1552.53,"body":"their dialogs and you're seeing through the questions in the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1552.53,"endTime":1556.34,"body":"further development in iterations of their questions like the actual"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1556.34,"endTime":1560.27,"body":"dialog, you get some really interesting cool things and I"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1560.27,"endTime":1563.6,"body":"think that's a thing that is powerful and interesting and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1563.6,"endTime":1567.35,"body":"valuable for for faculty and for their students to be"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1567.35,"endTime":1568.06,"body":"thinking about."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1568.07,"endTime":1571.13,"body":"I'm influenced by Warren Berger, who's written a couple of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1571.13,"endTime":1573.41,"body":"different books about questions, and I think this is one"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1573.41,"endTime":1575.72,"body":"of those opportunities for us to really think about the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1575.72,"endTime":1578.75,"body":"power of questioning and what you need to ask good"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1578.75,"endTime":1579.38,"body":"questions."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1579.38,"endTime":1580.54,"body":"And so there's,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1580.55,"endTime":1584.36,"body":"there's something within this that I think is a possibility for"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1584.36,"endTime":1587.39,"body":"no matter the discipline to really think about how like,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1587.39,"endTime":1589.55,"body":"how do we ask good questions, how do we ask"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1589.55,"endTime":1592.79,"body":"meaningful questions and how do we refine questions as a"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1592.79,"endTime":1594.11,"body":"means of seeking knowledge."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1594.11,"endTime":1595.82,"body":"But in order to do that, we also have to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1595.82,"endTime":1599.81,"body":"demonstrate some understanding in order to ask those deeper questions."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1599.81,"endTime":1602.27,"body":"And I think there's a really rich opportunity there to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1602.27,"endTime":1605.57,"body":"explore within all of this as well, from both faculty"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1605.57,"endTime":1606.35,"body":"and student side."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1606.71,"endTime":1609.86,"body":"Yeah, that was part of what I was thinking with"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1610.16,"endTime":1614.69,"body":"instructional design and with my students is it is even"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1614.93,"endTime":1617.54,"body":"in order to use this effectively as a tool, you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1617.54,"endTime":1619.13,"body":"need to know what questions to ask."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1619.28,"endTime":1622.19,"body":"And it's the same thing when you're doing analysis in"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1622.19,"endTime":1623.42,"body":"instructional design."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1623.42,"endTime":1625.91,"body":"When you start, you need to know what the important"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1625.91,"endTime":1627.08,"body":"questions are, right?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1627.08,"endTime":1628.49,"body":"Is this a training problem?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1628.91,"endTime":1630.74,"body":"Who are the students? What are the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1630.74,"endTime":1631.37,"body":"characteristics?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1631.37,"endTime":1634.19,"body":"Like all of these different analyses things are the questions"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1634.19,"endTime":1636.05,"body":"you need to ask, and if you don't know what"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1636.05,"endTime":1639.11,"body":"those questions are, the tools are not useful."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1639.12,"endTime":1642.5,"body":"And so I think there is an inherent skill in"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1642.5,"endTime":1646.34,"body":"learning how to ask the tool the right questions."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1646.88,"endTime":1647.93,"body":"I think there is."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1647.93,"endTime":1652.49,"body":"And it's also different even though it's very, very"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1652.49,"endTime":1653.06,"body":"smooth."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1653.27,"endTime":1653.78,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1653.78,"endTime":1655.31,"body":"And it sounds very human."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1655.31,"endTime":1658.07,"body":"There is a big difference between asking a question of"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1658.07,"endTime":1661.91,"body":"a human and asking a question of a large language"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1661.91,"endTime":1663.96,"body":"model like ChatGPT."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1664.34,"endTime":1667.49,"body":"If anybody is more interested in this, I was blown"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1667.49,"endTime":1671.3,"body":"away with the prompt engineering stuff that's out there, which"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1671.3,"endTime":1674.75,"body":"is all about how to ask it questions and understanding"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1674.75,"endTime":1677.27,"body":"the different ways that you can ask it questions, which"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1677.27,"endTime":1677.87,"body":"can be."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1678.08,"endTime":1681.32,"body":"This was really interesting to think about how you interface"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1681.32,"endTime":1684.53,"body":"with it and how it's different than maybe interfacing in"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1684.53,"endTime":1685.7,"body":"a human conversation."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1686.36,"endTime":1689.81,"body":"This is probably of no value, but this whole conversation,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1689.81,"endTime":1693.77,"body":"just like it just had me flashback to Hitchhiker's Guide"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1693.77,"endTime":1697.13,"body":"to the Galaxy when they're waiting for the answer to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1697.13,"endTime":1698.78,"body":"life, the universe and everything."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1698.87,"endTime":1702.95,"body":"Like, I feel like there's like there's something there for"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1702.95,"endTime":1704.21,"body":"this conversation as well."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1705.89,"endTime":1706.94,"body":"It's the same dynamic."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1707.33,"endTime":1709.73,"body":"Looking for all the right answers are not necessarily the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1709.73,"endTime":1712.52,"body":"right questions or realizing what the machine is really built"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1712.52,"endTime":1712.85,"body":"for."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1713.51,"endTime":1716.27,"body":"Lance you mentioned something interesting that I think is caused"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1716.27,"endTime":1719.48,"body":"an interesting conversation on Twitter as well, and that's around"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1719.48,"endTime":1720.26,"body":"citing."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1720.8,"endTime":1724.67,"body":"And I actually brought it up a little bit in"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1724.67,"endTime":1727.19,"body":"a from a blog post that Maha Bali had put"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1727.19,"endTime":1733.73,"body":"together, challenging not to anthropomorphize a computer system, but that's"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1733.76,"endTime":1734.81,"body":"worth citing."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1734.96,"endTime":1736.49,"body":"Are we not just doing that?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1736.73,"endTime":1737.99,"body":"How does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1738.29,"endTime":1741.44,"body":"I guess I would say I don't know that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1741.44,"endTime":1746.24,"body":"the citing itself is what anthropomorphizes the tool."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1746.51,"endTime":1749.63,"body":"I think there's lots of other ways we're doing that."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1749.81,"endTime":1752.09,"body":"And so citing might feel like one part of that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1752.09,"endTime":1756.08,"body":"conglomeration, I would say citing it in the traditional sense"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1756.08,"endTime":1760.58,"body":"of citing, it feels like the fix for now as"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1760.58,"endTime":1763.16,"body":"we're still trying to figure things out."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1763.16,"endTime":1765.83,"body":"I think all of it hearkens to trying to make"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1765.83,"endTime":1769.16,"body":"explicit where information comes from."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1769.55,"endTime":1772.01,"body":"I think citing is a good start."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1772.37,"endTime":1776.78,"body":"I think if we were to lessen or try to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1776.78,"endTime":1781.55,"body":"detract that or deanthropomorphize it, it makes me think"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1781.55,"endTime":1782.63,"body":"about, what is it..."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1782.63,"endTime":1785.21,"body":"Phipps, the article again, it is something"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1785.24,"endTime":1787.76,"body":"Autumm has shared with me in our conversations."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1787.76,"endTime":1792.11,"body":"Phipps and Lanclos citation approach, which is like you"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1792.11,"endTime":1796.4,"body":"identify that you were using this, and that you understand"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1796.4,"endTime":1799.7,"body":"the repercussions of using a tool that works, that is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1799.7,"endTime":1804.02,"body":"in part built off of like the illegal copying or"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1804.02,"endTime":1809.09,"body":"use of copyrighted works and also the various exploitated labor."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1809.42,"endTime":1811.58,"body":"I feel like that's a way of threading."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1811.63,"endTime":1813.19,"body":"It's like you're citing it."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1813.22,"endTime":1815.69,"body":"You're citing where this information came from."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1815.69,"endTime":1818.92,"body":"And because you cannot tie it to individuals, you also"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1818.92,"endTime":1823.42,"body":"recognize that tool is an exploitative tool of sorts."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1823.6,"endTime":1825.82,"body":"I think that's I think in my head that's one"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1825.82,"endTime":1828.43,"body":"way I've been thinking about or would think about in"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1828.43,"endTime":1829.03,"body":"this context."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1829.3,"endTime":1833.23,"body":"They offer that citation approach, I think slightly, and just"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1833.68,"endTime":1836.02,"body":"to be provocative and it's something like, nope, I think"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1836.02,"endTime":1838.15,"body":"that's what I will be using and will be encouraging"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1838.15,"endTime":1839.92,"body":"others to use."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1840.19,"endTime":1842.92,"body":"We can't just hide behind a citation because I think"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1843.34,"endTime":1844.99,"body":"maybe that's what it is."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1845.74,"endTime":1850.93,"body":"It doesn't anthropomorphize necessarily, but it hides."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1851.56,"endTime":1857.8,"body":"It hides what really goes into that answer, both technically"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1857.8,"endTime":1859.75,"body":"and human cost."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1860.23,"endTime":1860.49,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1860.5,"endTime":1862.69,"body":"So I do have a blog post pulled up and"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1862.69,"endTime":1867.31,"body":"I can read the citation example that Phipps and Lanclos"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1867.34,"endTime":1868.09,"body":"propose."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1868.1,"endTime":1872.32,"body":"So this is what they're proposing as a"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1872.32,"endTime":1873.64,"body":"potential citation."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1873.64,"endTime":1876.13,"body":"And they say we offer the following text not because"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1876.13,"endTime":1879.22,"body":"we think it, but the relevant people will actually use"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1879.22,"endTime":1881.65,"body":"it, but because we think that they should."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1881.83,"endTime":1886.96,"body":"And so it's this presentation paper work was prepared using"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1886.96,"endTime":1889.39,"body":"ChatGPT, an AI chat bot."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1889.66,"endTime":1893.38,"body":"We acknowledge that ChatGPT does not respect the individual"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1893.38,"endTime":1897.64,"body":"rights of authors and artists and ignores concerns over copyright"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1897.64,"endTime":1901.54,"body":"and intellectual property in the training of the system."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1901.57,"endTime":1905.44,"body":"Additionally, we acknowledge that the system was trained in part"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1905.44,"endTime":1909.19,"body":"through the exploitation of precarious workers in the global South."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1909.28,"endTime":1913.51,"body":"In this work I specifically use ChatGPT to..."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1913.51,"endTime":1915.7,"body":"then they have some ellipses where you would fill in"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1915.7,"endTime":1918.1,"body":"the way that you actually used the work."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1918.85,"endTime":1919.75,"body":"It's powerful."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1919.78,"endTime":1920.94,"body":"It's really powerful."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1921.25,"endTime":1924.13,"body":"It really makes you stop and think, Should I actually"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1924.13,"endTime":1924.64,"body":"use it?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1924.64,"endTime":1927.49,"body":"If I'm going to acknowledge all of these horrible things"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1927.49,"endTime":1928.06,"body":"about it?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1928.36,"endTime":1930.07,"body":"I'm not sure that people would."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1930.07,"endTime":1932.35,"body":"Lance is saying, Lance is embracing it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1932.35,"endTime":1934.85,"body":"And I think that's amazing, right?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1934.87,"endTime":1935.62,"body":"But I think."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1935.98,"endTime":1938.74,"body":"It also means I'm probably an irrelevant person rather than"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":1938.74,"endTime":1939.61,"body":"a relevant person."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1941.1,"endTime":1941.77,"body":"Oh!"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1943.33,"endTime":1944.79,"body":"I don't know if you are, though."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1944.8,"endTime":1945.81,"body":"I don't know if you are, though."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1945.82,"endTime":1948.61,"body":"I think what they mean by that, people who would"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1948.61,"endTime":1949.12,"body":"use it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1949.42,"endTime":1951.19,"body":"And so if"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1951.19,"endTime":1953.92,"body":"you're willing to use something like that, I think that"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1954.04,"endTime":1955.36,"body":"definitely says something."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1955.42,"endTime":1958.21,"body":"I proposed in talking with them about the article, so"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1958.21,"endTime":1960.34,"body":"there is probably I need to put this disclaimer out"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1960.34,"endTime":1960.46,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1960.46,"endTime":1961.69,"body":"And if you go to the article, if you go"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1961.69,"endTime":1963.94,"body":"to the blog post, you'll see at the top they"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1964.18,"endTime":1967.57,"body":"acknowledge that I had some input on this, just I"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1967.57,"endTime":1970.84,"body":"didn't write a word blog post, none of it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1971.29,"endTime":1972.7,"body":"But we had some conversations."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1972.7,"endTime":1975.7,"body":"We had some conversations about citation and about"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1976.88,"endTime":1978.59,"body":"different approaches to citation."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1978.59,"endTime":1981.05,"body":"And one of the things I put forward is you"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1981.05,"endTime":1985.61,"body":"could use this as activism if you really felt very"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1985.61,"endTime":1989.21,"body":"strongly the ethics of these systems and you wanted to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1989.21,"endTime":1991.94,"body":"make a point, you could add a citation like this"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1991.94,"endTime":1996.05,"body":"to your presentation or your paper or whatever, and then"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":1996.05,"endTime":2002.65,"body":"just have a use of ChatGPT that is so minimal,"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2002.8,"endTime":2003.16,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2003.16,"endTime":2005.5,"body":"Like I used it like a thesaurus and I changed"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2005.5,"endTime":2007.0,"body":"out this one word."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2008.02,"endTime":2010.48,"body":"So I used it just so that you could use"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2010.48,"endTime":2013.9,"body":"the citation to point out the abuses that can happen"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2013.9,"endTime":2014.53,"body":"through it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2014.53,"endTime":2015.7,"body":"It's really powerful."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2015.7,"endTime":2018.4,"body":"It could be used in lots of different kind of"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2018.4,"endTime":2019.03,"body":"ways."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2019.33,"endTime":2022.12,"body":"It's also so powerful because it's using the very thing"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2022.12,"endTime":2023.74,"body":"that ChatGPT obscures."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2023.74,"endTime":2027.46,"body":"So ChatGPT obscures citation, it fabricates citation."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2027.46,"endTime":2030.28,"body":"We don't know what is inside of these language models."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2030.67,"endTime":2033.52,"body":"More than likely, there is copyrighted work in there."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2034.06,"endTime":2035.5,"body":"We don't know that for sure."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2035.5,"endTime":2037.72,"body":"It's just we really don't know what's inside of the"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2037.72,"endTime":2039.04,"body":"language that it's trained on."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2039.04,"endTime":2042.58,"body":"And so this in a way, weaponizes the idea of"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2042.58,"endTime":2047.56,"body":"citation to really speak back to and bring some light"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2047.56,"endTime":2050.8,"body":"and bring some acknowledgment to some of the darker things"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2050.8,"endTime":2054.22,"body":"around this, around this particular tool."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2055.12,"endTime":2056.86,"body":"I think that's fascinating."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2056.919,"endTime":2062.409,"body":"I like the power in that citation, that opening citation."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2062.83,"endTime":2065.23,"body":"One of the ways that I've been using it, which"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2065.23,"endTime":2070.96,"body":"is totally not using it as a data lookup, I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2070.96,"endTime":2073.179,"body":"have text that's in past tense that I need to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2073.179,"endTime":2076.06,"body":"move to present tense and it's making it a whole"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2076.06,"endTime":2079.09,"body":"lot faster for me to write it because I can"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2079.09,"endTime":2082.179,"body":"take the stuff that I wrote in past tense, plug"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2082.179,"endTime":2084.37,"body":"it in and say, give me this in present tense,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2084.94,"endTime":2087.04,"body":"and then I can work with the present tense version"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2087.04,"endTime":2087.76,"body":"that it gave me."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2088.24,"endTime":2091.45,"body":"And because I wrote the past tense, I own the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2091.45,"endTime":2093.01,"body":"present tense."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2093.01,"endTime":2094.72,"body":"It's just saving me time."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2094.99,"endTime":2097.54,"body":"So again, I'm using it strictly as a tool."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2097.54,"endTime":2102.16,"body":"Now I'm questioning how it is now taking that data."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2102.16,"endTime":2104.71,"body":"And I found it did do that to me because"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2104.71,"endTime":2107.89,"body":"I had asked it a question about a town that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2107.89,"endTime":2109.93,"body":"we visited called Harrington Harbor."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2110.47,"endTime":2114.04,"body":"And originally it said that this place didn't exist and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2114.04,"endTime":2115.21,"body":"there was no knowledge of it."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2115.81,"endTime":2118.57,"body":"And then later, when I asked it about Harrington Harbor,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2118.84,"endTime":2121.39,"body":"it came back and quoted what I had written about"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2121.39,"endTime":2121.63,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2122.2,"endTime":2122.64,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2122.86,"endTime":2124.34,"body":"So it's like that."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2124.36,"endTime":2129.61,"body":"Oh, now your database thinks Harrington Harbor is the information"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2129.61,"endTime":2133.06,"body":"that I just fed you about Harrington Harbor, which actually"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2133.42,"endTime":2138.13,"body":"shows you where it's getting the information from and it"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2138.13,"endTime":2140.83,"body":"isn't even fact checking it."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2141.07,"endTime":2145.36,"body":"You can't argue like Wikipedia has systems in place where"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2145.36,"endTime":2149.5,"body":"things can be at least somewhat quality controlled in some"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2149.5,"endTime":2152.59,"body":"way, or at least say whether it's been quality controlled"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2152.59,"endTime":2152.95,"body":"or not."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2152.95,"endTime":2157.42,"body":"And fair because ChatGPT is a black box"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2157.87,"endTime":2161.53,"body":"there's no looking inside to see where the information came"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2161.53,"endTime":2161.89,"body":"from."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2162.43,"endTime":2163.54,"body":"I think that's fascinating."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2163.69,"endTime":2168.19,"body":"Just on going back to the point that it's changing"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2168.91,"endTime":2171.0,"body":"all of the time, right?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2171.01,"endTime":2173.86,"body":"And like it seems like every single day there's a"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2173.86,"endTime":2176.74,"body":"new thing coming out, speaking to what you're talking about"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2176.86,"endTime":2183.22,"body":"Rebecca Amazon is now warning their employees to stop using"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2183.22,"endTime":2186.97,"body":"it because they're seeing some of their, like trade secrets"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2186.97,"endTime":2192.32,"body":"in terms of coding, showing up in answers from ChatGPT"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2192.49,"endTime":2196.3,"body":"because they're using ChatGPT to help them code."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2196.42,"endTime":2201.35,"body":"And so the ChatGPT is not keeping those secrets and"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2201.37,"endTime":2205.9,"body":"is then absorbing that and then sharing that with other"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2205.9,"endTime":2207.49,"body":"users who are out there."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2207.49,"endTime":2210.49,"body":"It just put a link in the chat that you"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2210.49,"endTime":2213.97,"body":"can maybe link in the show notes, but yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2214.21,"endTime":2216.31,"body":"because it's a learning machine."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2216.31,"endTime":2219.73,"body":"We've been talking about learning technologies and it's coming back"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2219.73,"endTime":2222.85,"body":"to ID stuff and instructional design and technologies."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2222.85,"endTime":2225.07,"body":"For years we've been talking about learning technologies."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2225.07,"endTime":2227.53,"body":"We haven't been talking so much about technologies that learn,"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2227.62,"endTime":2228.76,"body":"which is a little bit different."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2230.89,"endTime":2232.63,"body":"This makes me so happy in some ways."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2232.63,"endTime":2235.87,"body":"I'm not going to like there's a lot there that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2235.93,"endTime":2238.37,"body":"there is some Schadenfreude going on right now."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2238.39,"endTime":2241.42,"body":"I'm not going to lie to the point about the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2241.42,"endTime":2242.29,"body":"responses."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2242.77,"endTime":2244.14,"body":"This is it."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2244.24,"endTime":2246.58,"body":"If it gets edited out, I completely understand."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2246.67,"endTime":2250.87,"body":"But I dropped this line this week when we were having"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2250.87,"endTime":2252.07,"body":"a discussion about it."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2252.32,"endTime":2254.8,"body":"This just came to my head like, like fluid"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2254.8,"endTime":2260.17,"body":"is that ChatCPT responds with all of the"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2260.98,"endTime":2263.32,"body":"self-confidence of a mediocre white dude."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2263.74,"endTime":2267.82,"body":"It just does and I just ever since that came"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2267.82,"endTime":2269.02,"body":"to mind, that's all."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2269.02,"endTime":2269.25,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2269.26,"endTime":2272.83,"body":"I can only hear ChatGPT responses and the voice"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2272.83,"endTime":2275.23,"body":"of somebody named Brad."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2277.2,"endTime":2277.56,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2278.22,"endTime":2280.35,"body":"Sorry to all of the Bradleys out there, right?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2280.41,"endTime":2280.84,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2280.86,"endTime":2281.28,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2281.49,"endTime":2282.18,"body":"Disclaimer..."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2282.18,"endTime":2283.28,"body":"I think it's Chad, actually."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2283.29,"endTime":2283.63,"body":"I'm sorry."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2283.66,"endTime":2284.67,"body":"ChadGPT."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2285.57,"endTime":2288.24,"body":"Because we were talking about it in the context"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2288.24,"endTime":2290.49,"body":"of its errors and things like that."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2290.76,"endTime":2293.61,"body":"And that came to me."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2293.61,"endTime":2295.38,"body":"And it just it sticks with me now."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2295.41,"endTime":2297.69,"body":"And that's all I can think about now is."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2297.69,"endTime":2300.27,"body":"I love it."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2301.2,"endTime":2304.02,"body":"I'll ask one more sort of question in this area"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2304.02,"endTime":2305.61,"body":"and then I think we'll close off."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2305.61,"endTime":2310.26,"body":"And that is we've talked about guidance for students and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2310.26,"endTime":2311.45,"body":"guidance for instructors."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2311.46,"endTime":2313.02,"body":"What about instructional designers?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2313.99,"endTime":2316.48,"body":"What do you think instructional designers should be doing with"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2316.48,"endTime":2317.35,"body":"this technology?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2317.82,"endTime":2320.08,"body":"Well, the first blog post that I wrote on this"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2320.08,"endTime":2323.83,"body":"topic was actually me wondering if it could be an"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2323.83,"endTime":2325.0,"body":"instructional designer."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2325.81,"endTime":2328.6,"body":"There's going to be labor implications of this technology, I"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2328.6,"endTime":2329.59,"body":"think everybody."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2330.64,"endTime":2332.59,"body":"Everybody is clear on that, right?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2332.68,"endTime":2337.24,"body":"OpenAI is doing research right now to try to better"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2337.24,"endTime":2341.95,"body":"understand the labor implications because their mission, they say, is"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2341.95,"endTime":2345.28,"body":"to make sure that AI is basically a net positive"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2345.28,"endTime":2348.08,"body":"in the world rather than a negative in the world."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2348.1,"endTime":2350.59,"body":"And so they recognize and realize this is going to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2350.59,"endTime":2354.22,"body":"have labor implications and trying to foresee and understand that"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2354.22,"endTime":2356.44,"body":"is really important if we're going to be responsible or"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2356.44,"endTime":2357.61,"body":"something like this."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2358.06,"endTime":2358.96,"body":"So I was just curious."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2358.96,"endTime":2361.27,"body":"I was just curious if it could, like, do my"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2361.27,"endTime":2361.8,"body":"job."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2361.81,"endTime":2365.62,"body":"So I went in and pretended that I was a"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2365.62,"endTime":2368.17,"body":"physics professor, which I know nothing about physics."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2368.17,"endTime":2371.8,"body":"I couldn't ask any discipline specific kind of questions, but"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2371.8,"endTime":2375.91,"body":"I just asked really general questions about my department chair"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2375.91,"endTime":2378.82,"body":"wants me to take my learning online and I'm skeptical"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2378.82,"endTime":2379.35,"body":"about it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2379.36,"endTime":2381.87,"body":"I don't know if this is really for me."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2381.89,"endTime":2385.18,"body":"And just tried to see what it was, what kind"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2385.18,"endTime":2386.38,"body":"of answers that it would give me."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2386.39,"endTime":2389.35,"body":"So going back to the idea of prompt engineering, one"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2389.35,"endTime":2390.97,"body":"of the fun things you can do is role play"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2390.97,"endTime":2391.3,"body":"with it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2391.3,"endTime":2393.27,"body":"You can ask it to role play with you."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2393.28,"endTime":2395.26,"body":"And so I started off by saying, You are an"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2395.26,"endTime":2400.63,"body":"instructional designer and I'm an instructor and you, if anything,"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2400.63,"endTime":2403.63,"body":"I think that's an interesting approach because I do think"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2403.63,"endTime":2407.59,"body":"that there is a lot of very standard answers in"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2407.59,"endTime":2408.58,"body":"instructional design."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2408.58,"endTime":2413.05,"body":"There's a lot of best practice that it's fine, I"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2413.05,"endTime":2416.68,"body":"guess, but I've always pushed back against it because I"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2416.68,"endTime":2419.14,"body":"think I'm not convinced that it is best practice."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2419.14,"endTime":2421.6,"body":"I don't know who really makes that decision."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2421.63,"endTime":2423.33,"body":"There's just a lot of it out there."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2423.34,"endTime":2426.25,"body":"And so I think it's kind of interesting just to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2426.25,"endTime":2429.85,"body":"see what kind of vanilla answers it gives you to"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2429.85,"endTime":2434.11,"body":"instructional design problems and then say, okay, well can we"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2434.11,"endTime":2435.37,"body":"be more creative than that?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2435.88,"endTime":2440.23,"body":"Can we go beyond this knowing that these are maybe"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2440.23,"endTime":2443.29,"body":"some of the most generic answers that are out there?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2444.01,"endTime":2448.69,"body":"So for ID folks, I mean, I think it's one"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2448.69,"endTime":2453.4,"body":"of those like really having to spend some time playing"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2453.4,"endTime":2456.43,"body":"with it, whether it's ChatGPT or really any of"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2456.43,"endTime":2461.56,"body":"these tools, both to understand their limitations and possibilities and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2461.56,"endTime":2465.58,"body":"evolution and to be prepared for the questions that they"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2465.58,"endTime":2469.39,"body":"will get from faculty where I see it impacting potentially"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2469.39,"endTime":2474.01,"body":"ID the most is probably in a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2474.25,"endTime":2475.03,"body":"OPMs."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2475.03,"endTime":2476.23,"body":"You're thinking about OPMs."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2476.8,"endTime":2477.34,"body":"OPMs"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2477.37,"endTime":2482.2,"body":"I can see the large scale online institutions."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2482.2,"endTime":2487.51,"body":"Your SNUs, your ASUs, your Western Governor's looking to leverage"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2487.51,"endTime":2492.7,"body":"this in a way that reduces the amount of instructional"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2492.7,"endTime":2496.3,"body":"design folks that they rely upon or that they contract"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2496.3,"endTime":2500.59,"body":"out and using this as more systematic means of updating"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2500.59,"endTime":2501.4,"body":"their courses."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2501.61,"endTime":2504.16,"body":"I can see the pathways to that because in some"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2504.16,"endTime":2510.16,"body":"ways it feels very much like textbooks, textbook publishers in"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2510.16,"endTime":2510.67,"body":"their methods."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2510.91,"endTime":2512.86,"body":"We've got to sell more books, and so we've got"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2512.86,"endTime":2515.02,"body":"to come up with a new edition every two years"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2515.02,"endTime":2516.64,"body":"and we'll just switch the chapters around."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2516.7,"endTime":2519.04,"body":"There's some ways I can see some of the larger"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2519.04,"endTime":2521.62,"body":"scale ones being like, We've got to refresh our courses."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2521.62,"endTime":2526.75,"body":"So hey, ChatGPT update it with this kind of flavor."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2527.59,"endTime":2528.12,"body":"Like I could..."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2528.13,"endTime":2531.13,"body":"I can see a series of APIs and plug-ins"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2531.13,"endTime":2534.4,"body":"being used to like do a lot of that."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2534.7,"endTime":2537.76,"body":"I think that's and so I would say anybody that"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2537.76,"endTime":2541.42,"body":"is in that space just understanding it and seeing where"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2541.42,"endTime":2545.44,"body":"that starts to pop out because I just have trouble"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2545.44,"endTime":2549.31,"body":"not believing the ways in which those larger entities work"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2549.31,"endTime":2551.92,"body":"on this like assembly line."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2551.92,"endTime":2556.3,"body":"And efficiency is always the better answer than anything else"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2556.3,"endTime":2559.03,"body":"that they aren't going to start thinking about it and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2559.03,"endTime":2559.51,"body":"using it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2559.57,"endTime":2562.93,"body":"I think another big role for instructional designers right now"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2562.93,"endTime":2568.27,"body":"too, and I say this on January 30th of 2023"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2568.9,"endTime":2573.28,"body":"because it's changing all the time, like tomorrow, like it's"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2573.28,"endTime":2574.12,"body":"going to be different."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2574.12,"endTime":2577.9,"body":"I think your administrators need guidance on top of your"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2577.9,"endTime":2578.6,"body":"instructors."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2578.6,"endTime":2580.93,"body":"Your instructors are going to be coming to you and"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2580.93,"endTime":2582.52,"body":"asking you for help with this."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2582.67,"endTime":2585.4,"body":"Just all the different roles of the instructional designer."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2585.43,"endTime":2588.13,"body":"There's the role of you as a content creator and"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2588.13,"endTime":2590.2,"body":"as a designer who's creating stuff for people."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2590.2,"endTime":2592.69,"body":"There's the role of you as somebody who gives advice"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2592.69,"endTime":2598.3,"body":"to faculty, but then most of us have either interactions"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2598.3,"endTime":2601.63,"body":"with some type of administration or we have a director"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2601.63,"endTime":2604.72,"body":"who has direct access to administrators."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2604.72,"endTime":2607.48,"body":"And I think all of us are very busy."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2607.51,"endTime":2609.76,"body":"We have a lot going on, right."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2609.76,"endTime":2612.16,"body":"And we don't have necessarily all the time in the"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2612.16,"endTime":2615.64,"body":"world just to concentrate on generative AI."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2616.15,"endTime":2618.55,"body":"So I think they're going to be coming and asking"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2618.55,"endTime":2623.11,"body":"for advice and asking for guidance in terms of what"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2623.11,"endTime":2626.35,"body":"to do with all of the social change that's going"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2626.35,"endTime":2629.83,"body":"to be happening around what the impact of these tools"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2629.83,"endTime":2630.13,"body":"is going"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2630.2,"endTime":2633.29,"body":"to mean, so just educating yourself and keeping on top"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2633.29,"endTime":2635.72,"body":"of that stuff that's changing, even if you can't stay"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2635.72,"endTime":2637.94,"body":"on top of it for every single day because it"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2637.94,"endTime":2639.22,"body":"is changing every single day."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2639.23,"endTime":2641.09,"body":"If you can stay on top of it once a"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2641.09,"endTime":2644.21,"body":"week, once every two weeks, whatever, to kind of keep"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2644.21,"endTime":2647.36,"body":"your eye on what is happening and how it's changing,"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2647.37,"endTime":2650.06,"body":"I think that it's going to be really important for"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2650.06,"endTime":2652.94,"body":"those who will be coming to you and asking you"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2652.94,"endTime":2655.43,"body":"for advice, which will be faculty, but more than likely"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2655.43,"endTime":2656.7,"body":"it will be administrators, too."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2656.72,"endTime":2659.33,"body":"And I think there's an interesting point about whether or"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2659.33,"endTime":2662.93,"body":"not it could replace instructional design."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2663.35,"endTime":2666.44,"body":"I don't think it can, but I do think it"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2666.44,"endTime":2669.95,"body":"does some things very interestingly, and that's I've been asking"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2669.95,"endTime":2672.83,"body":"it all of the questions, like I've generated some chapters"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2672.83,"endTime":2677.18,"body":"from my textbooks, but I'm using it saying, okay, here"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2677.18,"endTime":2679.55,"body":"are the questions I want this chapter to answer."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2680.12,"endTime":2680.9,"body":"What do you say?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2680.93,"endTime":2681.95,"body":"And then it gives me an answer."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2681.95,"endTime":2683.51,"body":"And I'm like, actually pretty good."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2683.66,"endTime":2684.41,"body":"I'll take that."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2685.58,"endTime":2689.15,"body":"Hey, I will say, and should I say this, and"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2689.36,"endTime":2691.58,"body":"let's say this, just say it."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2691.76,"endTime":2695.78,"body":"I will say I wrote that first blog post trying"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2695.78,"endTime":2698.24,"body":"to figure out if it would, if it could replace"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2698.24,"endTime":2701.06,"body":"me with a little bit of a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2701.06,"endTime":2703.38,"body":"tongue in cheek, little bit of haha thing."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2703.67,"endTime":2707.27,"body":"But then I realized the larger discourse of people who"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2707.27,"endTime":2712.25,"body":"really are looking at the potential impacts are not thinking"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2712.25,"endTime":2712.82,"body":"about that."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2712.83,"endTime":2715.85,"body":"They are thinking about whether it could replace teachers."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2717.38,"endTime":2723.05,"body":"So instructional designers, without teachers, that's a really scary prospect"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2723.05,"endTime":2723.92,"body":"if you ask me."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2724.07,"endTime":2727.34,"body":"And that's the bigger thing to be concerned with."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2728.21,"endTime":2731.42,"body":"Yeah, 100%."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2731.93,"endTime":2733.64,"body":"Do you think that's where it's going?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2733.67,"endTime":2736.43,"body":"I think the thing I see is and this is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2736.61,"endTime":2740.75,"body":"the it's the thing that with whether it's AI or"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2740.75,"endTime":2744.98,"body":"it's robots, that that seems to be sometimes missed or"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2744.98,"endTime":2748.58,"body":"under considered is like I hear folks being like there's"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2748.58,"endTime":2752.03,"body":"some jobs, that robots or AI won't ever replace that's not"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2752.03,"endTime":2754.06,"body":"they'll replace them en masse."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2754.07,"endTime":2757.49,"body":"What it will mean is that you as an"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2757.49,"endTime":2763.94,"body":"individual instructional designer or plumber or whatever your profession, you"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2763.94,"endTime":2768.02,"body":"will be able to do a lot more, more quickly."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2768.2,"endTime":2771.92,"body":"And so if previously you were only able to work"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2771.92,"endTime":2774.95,"body":"with ten faculty, you can now work with 20 or"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2774.95,"endTime":2776.0,"body":"you can work with 100."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2776.18,"endTime":2778.32,"body":"That's the thing that I'm seeing."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2778.34,"endTime":2781.46,"body":"So it's not that you replace all instructional designers, but"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2781.46,"endTime":2786.14,"body":"it means one like the expectation of one instructional designer"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2786.14,"endTime":2789.86,"body":"will be much more expansive or be much more expected"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2789.98,"endTime":2792.68,"body":"than what it was previously."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2792.68,"endTime":2795.21,"body":"And like, we see that within our technologies, every tech"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2795.23,"endTime":2798.77,"body":"like we have over the last 50 years, almost all"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2798.77,"endTime":2801.98,"body":"workers have become increasingly way more productive."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2802.04,"endTime":2804.14,"body":"But we keep asking more and more of them and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2804.14,"endTime":2805.4,"body":"of course, paying less and less of them."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2805.76,"endTime":2809.0,"body":"And so I think that's the thing, is what this"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2809.0,"endTime":2810.77,"body":"shows, or what this creates"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2810.77,"endTime":2814.28,"body":"the opportunity to, is like now instead of and I've"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2814.28,"endTime":2816.95,"body":"seen and was playing around with this in December as"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2816.95,"endTime":2819.14,"body":"well when I was doing some advising, I was like,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2819.54,"endTime":2821.09,"body":"What if I use the machine to help me get"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2821.09,"endTime":2821.49,"body":"started?"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2821.51,"endTime":2824.03,"body":"So rather than spending 5 hours of like hemming and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2824.03,"endTime":2826.25,"body":"hawing, I used it as a like, let's see what"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2826.25,"endTime":2828.4,"body":"I can get here and start running more quickly."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2828.41,"endTime":2832.0,"body":"And I think that is where the challenge is."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2832.02,"endTime":2833.87,"body":"It's not going to be replacing all."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2833.87,"endTime":2836.84,"body":"It's just going to make the need for this fewer and"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2836.84,"endTime":2837.35,"body":"fewer."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2837.38,"endTime":2839.9,"body":"And I think when we talk about replacing teachers, like"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2839.9,"endTime":2843.83,"body":"to me in many ways, the big scale instructional"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2843.83,"endTime":2848.72,"body":"places that have 130,000 students, they pretty much replace teachers"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2848.72,"endTime":2849.02,"body":"there."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2849.11,"endTime":2849.44,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2849.53,"endTime":2852.56,"body":"If you teach at those schools, you're not doing curriculum."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2852.68,"endTime":2855.56,"body":"You are grading and you are doing discussions."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2855.56,"endTime":2857.6,"body":"And I think they're doing that because they need to"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2857.6,"endTime":2860.24,"body":"at least justify that you actually have an interaction with"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2860.24,"endTime":2860.8,"body":"a human."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2860.81,"endTime":2863.39,"body":"Well, yeah, they will replace those, but meanwhile they can"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2863.39,"endTime":2866.51,"body":"also much of their staff is not faculty, but is"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2866.51,"endTime":2868.67,"body":"actual staff like instructional designers."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2868.67,"endTime":2871.46,"body":"And now it's like, Oh, we can maybe even do"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2871.46,"endTime":2871.85,"body":"less."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2871.85,"endTime":2873.65,"body":"And so I think I don't want to be like,"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2873.65,"endTime":2875.97,"body":"Oh, we're all doomed because of robots and AI"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2875.99,"endTime":2880.37,"body":"But I think that is the threat that they pose."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2880.37,"endTime":2882.83,"body":"And I think in industries we can start to see"},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2882.83,"endTime":2883.61,"body":"that happening."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2884.54,"endTime":2885.11,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2885.53,"endTime":2890.57,"body":"And yeah, I don't know if it I also don't"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2890.57,"endTime":2893.33,"body":"want to jump on the robots are coming for our"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2893.33,"endTime":2897.32,"body":"jobs pedestal like we know that doesn't end well."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2897.62,"endTime":2899.42,"body":"And it's never 100% true."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2899.42,"endTime":2902.81,"body":"But what you just talked about, Lance, is job loss,"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2902.81,"endTime":2903.4,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2903.41,"endTime":2904.57,"body":"It's job shifting."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2904.58,"endTime":2908.81,"body":"If we have 50 instructional designers right now and each"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2908.81,"endTime":2912.26,"body":"one of them are working with ten instructors, if each"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2912.26,"endTime":2914.51,"body":"one of them can work with 50 instructors."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2914.81,"endTime":2917.95,"body":"Yeah, that's a different situation."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2918.49,"endTime":2921.83,"body":"It will be interesting to see how it plays out."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2921.84,"endTime":2924.53,"body":"I guess the big takeaway is nobody really knows."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2924.53,"endTime":2926.15,"body":"But one thing that we do know is that"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2926.15,"endTime":2929.03,"body":"there will be some kind of labor implications."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2929.15,"endTime":2930.05,"body":"There could also be job"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2930.11,"endTime":2932.36,"body":"creation around this as well."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2932.42,"endTime":2932.88,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2932.9,"endTime":2935.69,"body":"Knowing people who know prompt engineering or who know how"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2935.69,"endTime":2938.39,"body":"to train a language model, those kind of things could"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2938.39,"endTime":2941.99,"body":"end up being something that are marketable skills that we"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2941.99,"endTime":2943.65,"body":"might need going forward."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2943.67,"endTime":2945.95,"body":"So I don't want to paint it as all gloom"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2945.95,"endTime":2948.98,"body":"and doom, but there will probably be upset and there"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2948.98,"endTime":2951.74,"body":"will probably be some reskilling that is needed and there"},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2951.74,"endTime":2953.39,"body":"will probably be big changes."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2953.42,"endTime":2956.51,"body":"I want to say thank you to both of you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2956.78,"endTime":2960.08,"body":"for coming in and joining this little thought experiment around"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2960.08,"endTime":2964.18,"body":"ChatGPT and what it might be doing this semester."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2964.19,"endTime":2966.95,"body":"I am really curious to see how all of this"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2966.95,"endTime":2970.82,"body":"is going to play out and where we're going to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2970.82,"endTime":2975.35,"body":"be at come September, right when we go into another"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2975.35,"endTime":2979.49,"body":"semester after having had the summer as well and a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2979.49,"endTime":2982.13,"body":"little bit more time for things to play out."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2982.13,"endTime":2984.53,"body":"But thank you very much for your willingness to come"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2984.53,"endTime":2986.87,"body":"on and chat with me about Chat."},{"speaker":"Autumm Caines","startTime":2987.59,"endTime":2989.09,"body":"Thanks so much for having us, Rebecca."},{"speaker":"Lance Eaton","startTime":2989.51,"endTime":2989.99,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2991.13,"endTime":2994.61,"body":"You've been listening to Demystifying Instructional Design, a podcast where"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2994.61,"endTime":2997.34,"body":"I interview instructional designers about what they do."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":2997.94,"endTime":3001.84,"body":"I'm Rebecca Hogue, your podcast host. Show notes are posted"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":3001.84,"endTime":3005.11,"body":"as a blog post on Demystifying Instructional Design dot com."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":3005.56,"endTime":3007.96,"body":"If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe or leave a"},{"speaker":"Speaker 0","startTime":3007.96,"endTime":3009.85,"body":"comment in the show notes Blog post."}]}