WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.074 --> 00:00:27.084 Anke: Hello and welcome, Sonya. 00:00:27.084 --> 00:00:28.764 I'm very happy to have you here. 00:00:30.204 --> 00:00:30.564 Sonia: Hi. 00:00:30.564 --> 00:00:31.434 Thank you Anka. 00:00:31.434 --> 00:00:32.994 Thank you so much for inviting me. 00:00:32.994 --> 00:00:34.884 I'm it's absolute honor and pleasure. 00:00:34.884 --> 00:00:35.574 Thank you. 00:00:36.264 --> 00:00:37.794 Anke: Um, we're gonna have some fun here. 00:00:38.064 --> 00:00:41.904 So let's start out, let people know where in this lovely world 00:00:42.324 --> 00:00:45.354 you are, and as always, what's your business with the dogs? 00:00:46.194 --> 00:00:50.454 Sonia: Um, so, uh, my business is called Best of Behavior. 00:00:51.174 --> 00:00:55.224 That's the American spelling of behavior, not the English spelling, even though I 00:00:55.224 --> 00:01:01.584 am English, but I live in America, um, on the, in the south suburbs of Chicago. 00:01:01.854 --> 00:01:03.114 So that's in the Midwest. 00:01:03.624 --> 00:01:04.644 And um. 00:01:05.709 --> 00:01:06.159 Gosh. 00:01:06.219 --> 00:01:06.759 Uh, yeah. 00:01:06.759 --> 00:01:10.509 I've been working with dogs professionally for about 25 years now. 00:01:10.689 --> 00:01:11.559 A long time. 00:01:12.069 --> 00:01:18.909 And, uh, I started my business about seven years ago after not having my own 00:01:18.909 --> 00:01:22.269 business for many, many years, and a lot of people asking me why I didn't. 00:01:23.709 --> 00:01:26.739 But it's such a large undertaking and I just sort of avoided it for 00:01:26.739 --> 00:01:28.329 the longest time until I finally. 00:01:28.754 --> 00:01:32.924 Uh, you know, bit the bullet and started best of behavior. 00:01:32.984 --> 00:01:35.204 Um, so yeah. 00:01:35.204 --> 00:01:42.254 So, um, so we do, uh, a lot of behavior work, um, a lot of aggression and 00:01:42.254 --> 00:01:46.934 reactivity and all the other labels that we want to say, you know, fear and, um. 00:01:47.559 --> 00:01:48.699 And everything really. 00:01:48.699 --> 00:01:52.779 Um, and we also do, uh, regular training as well, which is how 00:01:52.779 --> 00:01:54.489 I, how I originally started. 00:01:54.489 --> 00:01:59.619 I was originally a trainer and then, um, working for Courteous Canine 00:01:59.619 --> 00:02:03.819 for Angelica Steiner went into behavior in the early two thousands. 00:02:04.179 --> 00:02:04.809 Um. 00:02:05.129 --> 00:02:09.329 And, uh, she was one of my wonderful mentors that I was very lucky to 00:02:09.329 --> 00:02:12.059 learn from very early on in my career. 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:14.039 And, um, yeah. 00:02:14.249 --> 00:02:14.999 So there we are. 00:02:15.839 --> 00:02:16.224 Anke: There we are. 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:20.489 Well, I mean, my first question, like I, I think you've already sort of touched on 00:02:20.489 --> 00:02:24.569 it, it was like, okay, so wait, how is one a dog trainer without your own business? 00:02:25.079 --> 00:02:27.449 I didn't even think that was a thing. 00:02:27.449 --> 00:02:29.224 Stupid work for somebody else. 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:30.249 Sonia: Yep. 00:02:30.309 --> 00:02:34.449 I worked for other people and, uh, and, and, and some of the 00:02:34.449 --> 00:02:36.459 corporations along the way as well. 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:40.089 Um, which, you know, to be honest. 00:02:40.794 --> 00:02:43.764 Most group classes are not my favorite thing to teach. 00:02:44.574 --> 00:02:46.764 I really do prefer one-on-one. 00:02:46.764 --> 00:02:51.234 I love working with the dog in front of me or the dogs in front of me, um, and 00:02:51.234 --> 00:02:53.214 sort of narrowing down and focusing. 00:02:53.484 --> 00:02:55.464 Um, I like group classes. 00:02:55.464 --> 00:02:58.494 They're just not my favorite, favorite thing to teach. 00:02:58.524 --> 00:03:03.084 I do much prefer just working one-on-one with clients and, and 00:03:03.084 --> 00:03:04.464 their dogs, to be honest with you. 00:03:05.499 --> 00:03:05.889 Anke: Fair enough. 00:03:06.069 --> 00:03:07.059 I can totally see why. 00:03:07.359 --> 00:03:11.769 But so that's basically like group classes when you have a company and they offer 00:03:11.769 --> 00:03:13.659 group clo, like puppy classes or whatever. 00:03:13.659 --> 00:03:15.279 So they will then hire a trainer. 00:03:15.644 --> 00:03:16.144 To mm-hmm. 00:03:16.144 --> 00:03:16.704 To do these class. 00:03:16.704 --> 00:03:16.904 Mm-hmm. 00:03:17.054 --> 00:03:17.344 Okay. 00:03:17.504 --> 00:03:21.879 I, that was, I, I was somehow assumed that, um, you know, dog professionals 00:03:21.879 --> 00:03:24.504 would always be self-employed, you know, so that's Yeah, I know. 00:03:24.504 --> 00:03:24.939 I hadn't even thought that. 00:03:25.844 --> 00:03:26.064 No. 00:03:26.199 --> 00:03:26.529 Sonia: Yeah. 00:03:26.529 --> 00:03:30.219 I think also a lot of companies though, may hire dog trainers 00:03:30.219 --> 00:03:32.289 as independent contractors. 00:03:32.679 --> 00:03:36.939 Um, and I know that I have an independent contractor that works closely with me. 00:03:37.299 --> 00:03:39.759 Um, 'cause there's only one of me and I can't be everywhere. 00:03:40.049 --> 00:03:41.114 I can't Yep, yep. 00:03:41.189 --> 00:03:41.969 All the time. 00:03:42.269 --> 00:03:46.889 Um, but, but sometimes, you know, they do have employees as well, and, 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:50.939 um, some of my friends in the city have employees that have their own, 00:03:51.449 --> 00:03:54.449 um, facilities and stuff, so, yeah. 00:03:54.449 --> 00:03:54.929 So, um. 00:03:56.034 --> 00:03:59.004 Yeah, I think there's lots of different ways and it was really nice coming 00:03:59.004 --> 00:04:04.494 into the industry to, to shadow so many different, I mean, um, so in my second job 00:04:04.494 --> 00:04:08.034 when I worked for Angelica, not only did I work and learn from Angelica, but I worked 00:04:08.214 --> 00:04:10.554 and learn with many of the other trainers. 00:04:10.554 --> 00:04:13.434 One of them was a dolphin trainer from Bush Gardens. 00:04:13.434 --> 00:04:15.024 They had their own dolphins at the time. 00:04:15.024 --> 00:04:18.864 So I would sit and watch him and write notes on how he taught 00:04:18.864 --> 00:04:20.664 and, and watching the people. 00:04:20.899 --> 00:04:23.839 And how they reacted and responded to certain things. 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:27.739 Obviously being a dolphin trainer, a lot of it is, um, 00:04:27.799 --> 00:04:29.719 performative, to be honest with you. 00:04:29.929 --> 00:04:31.939 You know, that what you see in the shows. 00:04:32.239 --> 00:04:37.759 Um, so he was amazing at engaging the clients and getting them motivated 00:04:37.759 --> 00:04:39.769 to do things with their own dogs. 00:04:39.769 --> 00:04:40.259 And that was. 00:04:40.514 --> 00:04:41.654 Inspiring. 00:04:41.714 --> 00:04:44.954 I, I didn't, I, I kind of wanted to be like him, but I didn't 00:04:44.954 --> 00:04:46.484 wanna be him, if that makes sense. 00:04:46.484 --> 00:04:48.284 But I certainly took a lot away from that. 00:04:48.284 --> 00:04:49.604 So, yeah. 00:04:49.604 --> 00:04:52.304 And many of the other trainers that I worked with too. 00:04:52.304 --> 00:04:54.314 So huge influences. 00:04:54.824 --> 00:04:55.574 Anke: Yeah, I bet. 00:04:55.574 --> 00:04:56.004 I mean, that's always. 00:04:57.324 --> 00:04:58.824 I mean, we all learn from other people. 00:04:58.824 --> 00:05:01.764 Like, it's almost like, you know, I always remind, reminds me of Bruce 00:05:01.764 --> 00:05:04.734 Lee, like, you know, you're gonna study all the masters to kind of form 00:05:04.734 --> 00:05:06.744 your own way out of it in the end. 00:05:06.744 --> 00:05:07.044 Right. 00:05:07.464 --> 00:05:07.644 So, 00:05:07.644 --> 00:05:08.694 Sonia: absolutely. 00:05:08.874 --> 00:05:09.324 Yeah. 00:05:09.384 --> 00:05:13.584 Anke: So what's, what's one thing that you think, uh, oh God, I wish people knew. 00:05:14.214 --> 00:05:17.124 You know, from all the clients that people come to you, the problems they 00:05:17.124 --> 00:05:20.544 come to you with what you see, you know, what, what do you think people 00:05:20.544 --> 00:05:21.594 like, what do you wish people knew? 00:05:22.359 --> 00:05:23.919 Sonia: The clients or the trainers? 00:05:23.979 --> 00:05:24.579 The clients. 00:05:24.969 --> 00:05:28.779 You know, one of my, one of my lovely dear clients who's become 00:05:28.779 --> 00:05:29.949 a friend, 'cause I'm terrible. 00:05:29.949 --> 00:05:33.429 I'm, I'm like, I really suck at professional boundaries. 00:05:33.429 --> 00:05:34.419 When I work closely. 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:39.789 When I, when I do, I just think it comes with like, having such 00:05:39.789 --> 00:05:43.594 an empathetic, compassionate, loving, kind, sort of heart. 00:05:44.074 --> 00:05:47.709 I, I'm terrible at like keeping, you know, especially when I work 00:05:47.709 --> 00:05:49.569 closely with someone for a long time. 00:05:49.569 --> 00:05:51.429 Often they just become really good friends. 00:05:51.709 --> 00:05:57.769 You know, and, um, so, so one of those, um, she always says to me, 00:05:57.799 --> 00:06:02.449 the most important thing that you kept telling me at the beginning 00:06:02.719 --> 00:06:05.989 was, it's a marathon, not a sprint. 00:06:07.044 --> 00:06:12.504 And, and it was a severe aggression case that I, she had originally hired me for. 00:06:12.654 --> 00:06:14.154 He's incredible. 00:06:14.154 --> 00:06:15.294 Now he's come. 00:06:15.294 --> 00:06:19.704 So, so far they have as a team and she, she always says that, 00:06:20.004 --> 00:06:23.124 I remember you saying, Sonya, it's a marathon, not a sprint. 00:06:23.184 --> 00:06:27.444 And just keep one foot in front of the other, one foot in front of the other. 00:06:27.444 --> 00:06:30.804 No matter how slow you are going, sometimes you are running fast, sometimes 00:06:30.804 --> 00:06:32.964 you're hobbling along and that's okay. 00:06:33.264 --> 00:06:35.274 It's just keep your eye forward. 00:06:35.679 --> 00:06:36.729 You know, and keep moving. 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:40.869 Anke: So maybe that, I love that because I think a lot of the time, you know, people, 00:06:41.049 --> 00:06:43.569 people look for the quick fix, right? 00:06:43.809 --> 00:06:44.109 Yeah. 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:48.729 So it's like, yeah, I don, I just want my dog to stop, dog to stop doing. 00:06:48.729 --> 00:06:52.359 Is it mostly, I think it's mostly getting the dog to stop something, right? 00:06:52.749 --> 00:06:55.209 So it's not so much I wish my dog did that. 00:06:55.209 --> 00:06:58.569 It's like, I wish my dog didn't do Right. 00:06:58.629 --> 00:06:59.049 Something. 00:06:59.124 --> 00:06:59.474 Sonia: Right. 00:07:00.339 --> 00:07:00.879 Right. 00:07:01.149 --> 00:07:02.049 Absolutely. 00:07:02.139 --> 00:07:02.529 Yeah. 00:07:03.084 --> 00:07:06.924 Yeah, and just, you know, having patience and just. 00:07:07.524 --> 00:07:13.104 Trying to find that compassion for yourself as the human and your dynamic 00:07:13.104 --> 00:07:16.734 and your struggle, but also for the animal that they're, you know, I know 00:07:16.734 --> 00:07:19.704 we always say everybody knows this, that they're having a hard time. 00:07:19.704 --> 00:07:21.504 They're not just giving you a hard time. 00:07:21.834 --> 00:07:24.714 Um, and it's so true though, and it just being. 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:29.189 Being able to step back and create some space emotionally to just sort 00:07:29.189 --> 00:07:33.209 of reflect and have some compassion for yourself and the difficulty that, 00:07:33.209 --> 00:07:37.109 that human's feeling and the, you know, the frustration and anger and all 00:07:37.109 --> 00:07:39.809 those other feelings, and that's okay. 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:43.589 And they, they're, they're allowed to have those feelings, you know? 00:07:43.619 --> 00:07:46.139 Um, and the dog obviously has theirs. 00:07:46.139 --> 00:07:50.639 And just to try to just pour compassion upon that is, is so 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:54.809 important, you know, and, and allowing the client to have permission. 00:07:55.559 --> 00:07:59.819 To, to feel those and not feel like ashamed, you know? 00:08:00.569 --> 00:08:00.839 Yeah. 00:08:01.529 --> 00:08:01.739 That really, 00:08:01.739 --> 00:08:03.389 Anke: I mean, the shame is a big part of it. 00:08:03.389 --> 00:08:03.599 Right. 00:08:03.599 --> 00:08:07.319 Especially when your dog is, I mean, I would imagine with aggression mm-hmm. 00:08:07.589 --> 00:08:11.609 It's probably, you know, but it also limits your life 00:08:11.609 --> 00:08:12.719 when you can't go anywhere. 00:08:12.719 --> 00:08:12.959 Right. 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:16.289 I remember a hosted an event once and in the chat zone, like, 00:08:16.289 --> 00:08:17.214 you know, when people ask like. 00:08:18.429 --> 00:08:21.549 When asked what was their issue, there were people going like, oh, 00:08:21.549 --> 00:08:24.939 I, I just wish I could have my son over food cook for Thanksgiving. 00:08:25.029 --> 00:08:25.359 Sonia: Yeah. 00:08:25.689 --> 00:08:29.709 Anke: You know, like, the dog won't, but like, it's like, oh my God. 00:08:29.709 --> 00:08:32.709 It sounds kind of funny and extreme, but you know, put yourself 00:08:32.709 --> 00:08:34.059 into the shoes of that family. 00:08:34.089 --> 00:08:34.299 Yeah. 00:08:34.509 --> 00:08:34.689 Right. 00:08:34.689 --> 00:08:34.839 Yeah. 00:08:34.839 --> 00:08:35.709 It's Ooh. 00:08:36.009 --> 00:08:39.129 So, and they then go and say, Hey, I want somebody to just fix it. 00:08:39.174 --> 00:08:39.699 Right, right. 00:08:39.699 --> 00:08:43.839 So how do you, how do you get people to have patience when they already 00:08:43.839 --> 00:08:45.039 kind of, at the end of their rope. 00:08:46.044 --> 00:08:49.584 Sonia: Well, you know, I, I'll often use just human analogies, you know, we 00:08:49.584 --> 00:08:53.844 don't go to the psychiatrist one time and miraculously walked away, walk away, 00:08:53.844 --> 00:08:58.944 fixed, you know, it just doesn't, or the, or the therapist, you know, and, um, you 00:08:58.944 --> 00:09:02.964 don't see a therapist once, one or two times usually, and everything smashed. 00:09:02.964 --> 00:09:07.494 Especially if you have a history of trauma and, you know, so there are so 00:09:07.494 --> 00:09:11.094 many people with the awareness that we have with mental health these days. 00:09:11.514 --> 00:09:12.114 Um. 00:09:12.969 --> 00:09:18.489 People are seeing therapists or have seen therapists or continuing to see 00:09:18.489 --> 00:09:20.824 therapists or multiple sometimes, and. 00:09:21.579 --> 00:09:27.369 So I think when we talk and we sort of help them understand and, and believe 00:09:27.429 --> 00:09:31.509 it or not, I mean, there's quite a few people that are on, you know, 00:09:31.719 --> 00:09:35.379 psychopharmacology themselves and they'll laugh and they'll be like, oh, everybody 00:09:35.379 --> 00:09:38.379 in the family is, and then it's like, you know, if that's what we are discussing, 00:09:38.379 --> 00:09:44.349 for example, um, but also just to, to, to know that they don't get magically 00:09:44.349 --> 00:09:46.479 fixed by a therapist one or two times. 00:09:46.539 --> 00:09:48.369 You know, that it is a process. 00:09:48.914 --> 00:09:54.194 And, um, to have, and it's gonna be up and down and to have, you know, try to 00:09:54.194 --> 00:10:01.814 have patience and try to identify how we can help them have some of their 00:10:01.814 --> 00:10:04.364 normality back through management. 00:10:04.364 --> 00:10:05.544 I think management, you know, is. 00:10:06.294 --> 00:10:09.894 Usually more of a temporary thing, and temporary might be a month, 00:10:09.894 --> 00:10:11.454 temporary might be two years. 00:10:11.454 --> 00:10:15.114 I mean, that's not on our timeframe necessarily, that's on the dogs and 00:10:15.114 --> 00:10:18.924 the issues and everything else, and the goals if they're accessible. 00:10:19.164 --> 00:10:24.474 Um, so I think, you know, addressing all of that kind of stuff and, and 00:10:24.474 --> 00:10:31.104 allowing them to, um, to, to understand that it, it is a process, you know? 00:10:31.104 --> 00:10:34.524 And, um, and we're gonna try to do as much as we can, but. 00:10:35.619 --> 00:10:36.879 To try to have patience. 00:10:37.449 --> 00:10:37.809 Anke: Hmm. 00:10:38.199 --> 00:10:38.529 Yeah. 00:10:38.709 --> 00:10:43.419 Do you find, do you find there's, um, like when there's families, like, I mean 00:10:43.629 --> 00:10:49.869 like what in my observation, you know, like the people who come to trainers and 00:10:50.289 --> 00:10:54.009 with that patient mind tend to be women. 00:10:54.954 --> 00:10:55.464 Am I right there? 00:10:56.514 --> 00:11:01.254 Or is it like, do you find that it's like in families that there's like one 00:11:01.254 --> 00:11:05.334 who goes like, I just need this fixed now, and one is happy to kind of go the 00:11:05.334 --> 00:11:08.694 path, but then there's pressure from the other side to say, well, hey, you know, 00:11:08.694 --> 00:11:10.524 if you don't get this fixed by whatever. 00:11:11.829 --> 00:11:17.769 Sonia: Um, I, I think probably yes, in my experience it's usually been men that have 00:11:17.769 --> 00:11:21.519 been more wanting the immediate quick fix. 00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:27.159 But, but to be honest, um, as I look, as I think about the last few years with 00:11:27.159 --> 00:11:31.959 all of my clients and, and maybe I'm just really lucky and that I just, you know, 00:11:31.959 --> 00:11:38.259 the people that seek me out are those really patient people, you know, that, um. 00:11:39.309 --> 00:11:42.279 Uh, that are, that are wanting to do the work. 00:11:42.369 --> 00:11:44.619 The hard work, the deep work, you know? 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:50.019 Um, so, and, and to be fair, I mean, most of the male clients, they 00:11:50.019 --> 00:11:54.099 either come by themselves or come in a family unit or a couple unit. 00:11:54.459 --> 00:11:55.059 Um. 00:11:55.794 --> 00:11:59.094 Are really, really wonderful, to be honest with you. 00:11:59.094 --> 00:12:01.314 I'm really blessed, so I'm lucky. 00:12:01.314 --> 00:12:02.274 I love my clients. 00:12:02.769 --> 00:12:03.669 Anke: That's, that's awesome. 00:12:03.924 --> 00:12:07.224 That's awesome because I'm literally, I've just literally had a, had a conversation 00:12:07.224 --> 00:12:09.684 with a colleague early on and we thought like, well actually, you know. 00:12:11.229 --> 00:12:13.479 As beautiful as it is to help dogs. 00:12:13.479 --> 00:12:13.719 Right. 00:12:13.719 --> 00:12:16.419 I, I felt it's like, oh, I think I'd get frustrated. 00:12:16.419 --> 00:12:20.199 You know, when you get people in the middle that don't see that, hey, don't 00:12:20.199 --> 00:12:23.859 you see your dogs side look like, you know, so, but it's, I mean, that's 00:12:23.859 --> 00:12:28.699 fortunate that, that you've got, you know, whatever you put out, pulls in mm-hmm. 00:12:28.699 --> 00:12:30.129 The right, the right people. 00:12:30.309 --> 00:12:33.669 So do you, do you work like online only or like offline only? 00:12:33.669 --> 00:12:35.074 Or like, do you, do you do a bit of both? 00:12:36.264 --> 00:12:37.194 Sonia: I do a bit of both. 00:12:37.224 --> 00:12:41.424 The majority is, um, is uh, in person. 00:12:41.724 --> 00:12:44.934 Um, but I do, I do also work with cats. 00:12:44.934 --> 00:12:49.374 So, um, so some of my clients are, uh, usually across the us, 00:12:49.404 --> 00:12:56.004 um, that I have cat, mainly intra household aggression, um, or. 00:12:56.709 --> 00:12:57.519 People aggression. 00:12:58.449 --> 00:13:05.739 Um, so, um, and then of course, you know, I do have some, um, I don't really put out 00:13:05.769 --> 00:13:11.259 I guess that, that, that I, I don't really advertise that I do a lot of online. 00:13:11.499 --> 00:13:15.549 Um, and to be honest, mainly because I am driving all around God's creation. 00:13:15.579 --> 00:13:20.169 So it's very difficult for me to, to sit and do virtual, to be honest with you. 00:13:20.469 --> 00:13:23.949 Um, because I'm out, you know, I work like six days a week. 00:13:24.034 --> 00:13:24.934 Often seven. 00:13:25.264 --> 00:13:29.674 Um, and I know you've, um, so yeah. 00:13:29.674 --> 00:13:31.234 Terrible worklife balance. 00:13:31.234 --> 00:13:38.344 But, um, so yeah, I, I am, as I move forward more to working, doing like 00:13:38.344 --> 00:13:44.374 my niche, uh, is, which is, um, my passion at the moment for the last five. 00:13:44.949 --> 00:13:46.869 Plus years, six, seven years. 00:13:46.899 --> 00:13:50.619 Um, then maybe I will do a lot more virtual. 00:13:50.619 --> 00:13:51.699 So yeah. 00:13:51.729 --> 00:13:53.109 But I'm open to doing virtual. 00:13:53.109 --> 00:13:54.909 I like, I like virtual too. 00:13:55.539 --> 00:13:58.569 Anke: I was just like, I mean, this is the dog shows. 00:13:58.569 --> 00:14:02.109 I'm not gonna go too far into the cats, but I don't think I've ever heard anybody 00:14:02.109 --> 00:14:08.694 get to, you know, hiring somebody to go, Hey, my dog's kind of, uh, my two cats. 00:14:09.029 --> 00:14:12.359 Go at each other, like, I've not even, oh yeah, I, I mean, I've 00:14:12.359 --> 00:14:14.309 never had a cat, so at least, yeah. 00:14:15.579 --> 00:14:18.404 I looked after one for a little while, like, she's so cute. 00:14:18.434 --> 00:14:23.289 It's called, he's thrown itself off a wall as a tiny 00:14:24.729 --> 00:14:25.719 Sonia: I love that. 00:14:26.229 --> 00:14:26.589 Yeah. 00:14:26.589 --> 00:14:29.709 I get, I, I actually get a lot of referrals from our veterinary 00:14:29.709 --> 00:14:30.999 behaviorist up in the city. 00:14:30.999 --> 00:14:31.254 Dr. 00:14:31.254 --> 00:14:33.759 Kelly Ballantine and her group insight. 00:14:34.119 --> 00:14:34.989 Shout out to them. 00:14:35.319 --> 00:14:40.119 Um, and then, uh, um, yeah, and then a lot through the website 00:14:40.119 --> 00:14:41.769 and, and just referrals, so. 00:14:42.909 --> 00:14:45.129 Anke: I didn't, I just didn't realize that was a thing. 00:14:45.804 --> 00:14:46.094 Yeah. 00:14:46.094 --> 00:14:48.129 It's like, oh yeah, my cat has a go with me. 00:14:48.129 --> 00:14:48.939 Like, that's a good one. 00:14:50.319 --> 00:14:53.619 Now, now the other thing I wanna kind of dig in, you just sort threw in 00:14:53.619 --> 00:14:56.889 there, it's like, well, I'm gonna focus more on my niche, my real passion. 00:14:56.889 --> 00:14:57.849 Tell us about that. 00:14:58.239 --> 00:14:58.719 Sonia: Okay. 00:14:58.779 --> 00:15:03.069 Um, so, uh, so for the last sort of, well. 00:15:03.504 --> 00:15:08.214 Seven and a bit years ago I adopted Kismet, that's one of my dogs. 00:15:08.214 --> 00:15:14.064 And um, and I had actually six months prior, lost my border 00:15:14.064 --> 00:15:15.774 Collie, who was my heart dog. 00:15:15.804 --> 00:15:18.684 And I was heartbroken and I had no dogs. 00:15:19.074 --> 00:15:22.794 Um, and I was volunteering at the Local Humane Society at the time. 00:15:23.454 --> 00:15:29.334 And so, um, and doing a lot of hours there, actually just voluntary, um. 00:15:30.024 --> 00:15:33.954 And so I would go in and I would clean and just, you know, get 00:15:33.954 --> 00:15:36.654 mucky, just do all the hard stuff that no one really wanted to do. 00:15:36.654 --> 00:15:39.114 And nobody actually even knew that I was a trainer. 00:15:39.114 --> 00:15:40.914 I didn't go in there saying like, I'm a trainer. 00:15:40.944 --> 00:15:42.114 You know, I didn't tell anyone. 00:15:42.114 --> 00:15:45.534 I just went in and cleaned and took dogs for walks and played 00:15:45.534 --> 00:15:48.954 with them and took care of the cats and stuff and just did the work, 00:15:48.954 --> 00:15:50.304 you know, that needed to be done. 00:15:50.634 --> 00:15:51.279 And, um. 00:15:51.859 --> 00:15:56.179 Transport came up from the south and, and I was, after the cleaning, I was 00:15:56.179 --> 00:16:00.769 taking all the dogs out individually for walks and just outside time. 00:16:01.549 --> 00:16:04.879 And, and I took this very quiet dog out. 00:16:05.269 --> 00:16:08.329 Um, he was about eight months old at the time, a mixed breed. 00:16:08.329 --> 00:16:12.829 And um, and we went for a little walk and, and he made me laugh and 00:16:12.829 --> 00:16:16.309 I kind of felt a little bit of my heart sort of glue back together. 00:16:16.729 --> 00:16:19.459 And um, and I was like, hmm. 00:16:20.244 --> 00:16:21.354 That's interesting. 00:16:21.654 --> 00:16:25.134 So I put him on hold and I brought my family the next day 00:16:25.134 --> 00:16:26.754 and we ended up taking him home. 00:16:27.174 --> 00:16:32.694 Um, but I will say having lost, you know, three dogs in the previous, you know, all 00:16:32.694 --> 00:16:36.684 due to old age, um, sort of five years. 00:16:36.744 --> 00:16:40.764 Um, and then finishing with Coop was, um, it was hard. 00:16:40.764 --> 00:16:43.674 And, and I don't know, you know, if. 00:16:44.034 --> 00:16:47.904 Um, I don't know when, I don't know how we ever assess. 00:16:47.904 --> 00:16:49.194 We're ready for another dog. 00:16:49.914 --> 00:16:54.414 Um, you know, and, and I took him home and I liked him a lot. 00:16:54.864 --> 00:16:59.814 Um, and then I found out some stuff, um, that made it more challenging to like 00:16:59.814 --> 00:17:01.494 him, but I'll talk about that in a minute. 00:17:01.794 --> 00:17:05.154 Um, but I'd say it probably took me a good year, a year and a half, 00:17:05.154 --> 00:17:09.864 maybe even two years, to like really feel the, the love for him. 00:17:10.014 --> 00:17:10.764 And I love the. 00:17:10.919 --> 00:17:12.149 Very bones of him. 00:17:12.149 --> 00:17:15.179 Now, I love him to pieces, but it was a process. 00:17:15.179 --> 00:17:17.489 Healing that loss was hard. 00:17:17.939 --> 00:17:21.719 So, um, yeah, I know. 00:17:21.719 --> 00:17:22.739 That's a tangent. 00:17:23.849 --> 00:17:23.929 Anke: No, no, no. 00:17:23.929 --> 00:17:25.379 But it's like, it's so true though. 00:17:25.379 --> 00:17:28.259 It's such a, you know, I mean, I, that's a situation. 00:17:28.259 --> 00:17:33.899 I've lost two, but I've always had other dogs, like there was always at least. 00:17:34.584 --> 00:17:36.504 There was always two other dogs there, you know? 00:17:36.504 --> 00:17:36.594 Mm-hmm. 00:17:36.834 --> 00:17:40.969 So I sometimes thought like, I don't even wanna think about what it would be like. 00:17:42.429 --> 00:17:43.719 For the lost dog to go. 00:17:43.719 --> 00:17:43.989 Right. 00:17:43.989 --> 00:17:45.399 It's just like, yeah. 00:17:45.399 --> 00:17:45.409 Ooh. 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:46.794 It's hard, hard, you know? 00:17:46.794 --> 00:17:49.599 So I can totally, totally feel that, that it's, yeah. 00:17:49.689 --> 00:17:49.959 Sonia: Yeah. 00:17:50.199 --> 00:17:54.549 And I had had children in that timeframe, so I had two very young 00:17:54.549 --> 00:17:59.199 children and, um, and was very busy with them, you know, as well. 00:17:59.199 --> 00:18:04.359 And, uh, so yeah, so it was, it was a change, but so, uh, the thing that made it 00:18:04.419 --> 00:18:08.474 a little bit more challenging to like him, um, they didn't really do, I don't think. 00:18:08.819 --> 00:18:12.539 I'm not sure what they do now, but, um, they didn't really do any kind of 00:18:12.539 --> 00:18:14.159 assessments really, in the shelter. 00:18:14.549 --> 00:18:18.029 So when I got him home within the next week or two, I discovered that it was, um. 00:18:19.674 --> 00:18:23.904 Proli, uh, prolific resource guarder, and he would steal things and he was like 00:18:23.904 --> 00:18:29.364 Cujo, um, the 1980s film version of Cujo. 00:18:29.664 --> 00:18:35.214 Um, and he would, you know, steal whatever run to his kennel and then 00:18:35.394 --> 00:18:39.744 he was all teeth, slashing teeth, you know, and it was like, oh, great. 00:18:39.744 --> 00:18:43.569 And remember I had two very young children at the time, and I was like, ah. 00:18:46.494 --> 00:18:46.854 We have a problem. 00:18:46.854 --> 00:18:49.494 So yes, Houston, we have a problem. 00:18:49.494 --> 00:18:53.544 And um, what, but the thing was, it was very, very difficult 00:18:53.544 --> 00:18:55.099 to predict what he would. 00:18:55.884 --> 00:18:58.794 What he would steal because he would just steal items. 00:18:58.824 --> 00:19:02.934 Um, especially if he could counter surf and steal food items, high value, you 00:19:02.934 --> 00:19:05.034 know, like human cookies or something. 00:19:05.034 --> 00:19:09.294 And, um, and of course having young children that, you know, five year 00:19:09.294 --> 00:19:13.944 olds aren't very good at putting things necessarily away and stuff, so, um. 00:19:14.499 --> 00:19:15.669 And two year olds. 00:19:15.729 --> 00:19:20.589 Um, so, so it was, uh, it was very difficult. 00:19:20.649 --> 00:19:26.319 Um, and he made me grow and stretch and create. 00:19:28.149 --> 00:19:30.499 So he is a wonderful teacher, teacher. 00:19:30.564 --> 00:19:30.624 So 00:19:32.004 --> 00:19:35.724 Anke: the dogs are the best teachers, the best, especially the difficult ones. 00:19:35.724 --> 00:19:37.014 You know, the difficult dog. 00:19:37.014 --> 00:19:37.314 Right? 00:19:37.584 --> 00:19:37.854 Absolutely. 00:19:37.854 --> 00:19:41.124 It's the one that, that questions everything you thought you knew. 00:19:41.124 --> 00:19:41.214 Mm-hmm. 00:19:41.484 --> 00:19:42.924 Like or challenges. 00:19:43.194 --> 00:19:44.274 Sonia: Yeah, challenges. 00:19:44.274 --> 00:19:45.864 Everything you thought you knew. 00:19:45.864 --> 00:19:45.954 Yeah. 00:19:46.014 --> 00:19:48.354 About dogs or training or anything like that. 00:19:48.624 --> 00:19:49.764 And it's like, okay. 00:19:49.764 --> 00:19:53.754 You know, that was the thing is I, I, you know, I'm holding my wonderful 00:19:53.754 --> 00:19:58.884 copy of mine by Jean Donaldson and I'm like, how do I, how do I do 00:19:58.884 --> 00:20:00.324 this with everything in the house? 00:20:01.044 --> 00:20:04.404 This drug of steel, anything and everything, and then God, the ever-loving 00:20:04.404 --> 00:20:09.054 crud out of it, how can I desensitize and counter condition everything in the house? 00:20:09.354 --> 00:20:09.534 You can't. 00:20:10.509 --> 00:20:10.959 You can't. 00:20:11.289 --> 00:20:14.829 And, and it, you know, it wasn't constant. 00:20:14.829 --> 00:20:20.349 So I had to identify when and the context and I, and it was, it really, 00:20:20.439 --> 00:20:22.659 um, it really stretched me and groom me. 00:20:22.659 --> 00:20:29.979 And, um, and I kind of developed some, some techniques and, um, protocols. 00:20:29.979 --> 00:20:35.349 And then I had another dog five, five years ago that came for a board and train 00:20:35.349 --> 00:20:38.619 for severe resource guarding and, um. 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:40.329 And I was like, okay. 00:20:40.329 --> 00:20:42.789 And so he grew that even more. 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:47.229 Um, and then over the last five years, you know, I've just been like, okay, 00:20:47.229 --> 00:20:52.839 there is a need for, you know, not just my dog, but many other dogs that, that 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:58.904 have this, um, you know, these kinds of resource guarding patterns that Aren. 00:20:59.464 --> 00:21:00.634 Predictable. 00:21:01.534 --> 00:21:06.034 Um, but even when they are predictable, you know, what else is there? 00:21:06.034 --> 00:21:09.664 What else can we do other than desensitization and counter conditioning? 00:21:09.904 --> 00:21:13.444 Um, and why, why would we want to do this? 00:21:13.774 --> 00:21:15.964 Um, how is it helpful? 00:21:16.024 --> 00:21:18.904 Uh, you know, those are the questions I just started asking. 00:21:18.904 --> 00:21:20.554 I'm a, I'm a question person. 00:21:20.554 --> 00:21:24.334 I always want to know, well, why, you know, why and how. 00:21:24.334 --> 00:21:26.044 And, um, so yeah. 00:21:26.044 --> 00:21:28.354 So that's, that's what I kind of developed. 00:21:28.424 --> 00:21:28.484 Mm. 00:21:29.444 --> 00:21:32.504 Anke: That's so interesting because I'm just like laughing like little Leo. 00:21:32.684 --> 00:21:37.244 He was, well he wasn't unpredictable, he was very predictable. 00:21:37.244 --> 00:21:40.874 I called him sometimes Imelda Marcos 'cause he loved leather shoes and socks. 00:21:42.704 --> 00:21:46.094 Like literally like he went, he wants ate Aline socks. 00:21:46.124 --> 00:21:49.574 You know, we laughed about this like later these little, you know, these, 00:21:49.574 --> 00:21:51.134 this little pantyhose little kind of. 00:21:52.464 --> 00:21:52.764 Separate. 00:21:53.909 --> 00:21:54.199 Yeah. 00:21:54.199 --> 00:21:54.209 Mm-hmm. 00:21:54.414 --> 00:21:57.294 You know, while she was trying on her dress, like he was just go, and 00:21:57.294 --> 00:22:01.044 then he would go when you come and oh my God, and then he'd swallow it. 00:22:01.044 --> 00:22:02.574 So you wouldn't take it away from him. 00:22:02.574 --> 00:22:02.844 Right. 00:22:02.844 --> 00:22:06.534 So that was always like, I would then always have to trade it for something 00:22:06.534 --> 00:22:08.124 that, you know, he liked better. 00:22:08.364 --> 00:22:09.264 Because if I. 00:22:09.574 --> 00:22:10.114 Came. 00:22:10.114 --> 00:22:13.594 And if he got the sense that I was trying to take it away from him, he'd 00:22:13.594 --> 00:22:15.274 swallow and he'd swallow anything. 00:22:15.304 --> 00:22:15.574 Right. 00:22:15.574 --> 00:22:18.034 So that was like, have to be really careful with that. 00:22:18.034 --> 00:22:23.059 But when he trained me well to keep socks and shoes in, in their place, you know? 00:22:23.189 --> 00:22:23.539 Right. 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:26.194 And I don't even know what you do if it's with everything. 00:22:26.194 --> 00:22:32.704 So like, from everything you've kind of investigated around this, um, what do you 00:22:32.704 --> 00:22:34.324 think it's, it is at the source of it. 00:22:34.324 --> 00:22:35.884 Like why, why do dogs do that? 00:22:38.424 --> 00:22:40.224 Sonia: Well, it depends. 00:22:40.524 --> 00:22:41.604 Sound like a trainer. 00:22:41.634 --> 00:22:42.324 It depends. 00:22:42.324 --> 00:22:47.274 I would say a lot of it is insecurities. 00:22:48.204 --> 00:22:50.514 Um, insecure attachments. 00:22:51.504 --> 00:22:56.484 Um, in food insecurity, obviously, uh, object insecurity can be, you 00:22:56.484 --> 00:23:02.244 know, but yeah, a lot of insecurities, um, um, unknown, you know, they're 00:23:02.244 --> 00:23:03.834 not quite sure what to predict. 00:23:04.074 --> 00:23:08.574 Um, interestingly, the, the last dog that I had for board and train had 00:23:08.934 --> 00:23:16.824 had the predicting sort of occurrence of trading, was now poisoned. 00:23:17.589 --> 00:23:21.459 If you try to come in and trade, he would get even more aggressive. 00:23:23.859 --> 00:23:27.879 So even trading has to be done very carefully and we 00:23:27.879 --> 00:23:29.199 think it's kind of foolproof. 00:23:29.199 --> 00:23:29.529 Right. 00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:30.879 I have something really good. 00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:32.049 Better than you have. 00:23:32.049 --> 00:23:32.859 Give it to me. 00:23:33.129 --> 00:23:33.459 Um. 00:23:34.149 --> 00:23:40.749 But if it's not done correctly or with a certain type of dog, we can poison that. 00:23:40.749 --> 00:23:45.459 So that actually became a cue for him to become even even more upset and 00:23:45.459 --> 00:23:47.379 have bigger feelings and God even. 00:23:47.379 --> 00:23:48.609 And, um. 00:23:49.054 --> 00:23:51.724 And be more proactively aggressive. 00:23:51.724 --> 00:23:56.224 So it was, yeah, he, he was, he is a very interesting case. 00:23:58.114 --> 00:24:01.684 Anke: So how do you go about, uh, starting to break that pattern or to 00:24:01.684 --> 00:24:03.364 ease that, like where do you start? 00:24:03.574 --> 00:24:04.534 Like how, what do you do? 00:24:05.464 --> 00:24:10.924 Sonia: So I think that dogs need to go sort of through, like with anything that 00:24:10.924 --> 00:24:15.154 we are working, they need to go through like a decompression period, um, and. 00:24:16.899 --> 00:24:24.099 And if we can, we need to kind of go through an item deprivation period of that 00:24:24.219 --> 00:24:28.359 object while we build up other skills. 00:24:28.749 --> 00:24:33.999 So if we can build up, if we can build up, um, more sort of operant 00:24:33.999 --> 00:24:39.009 protocols, but it's not just about operant behaviors, it's about the 00:24:39.009 --> 00:24:42.489 emotions, um, that we can create. 00:24:42.489 --> 00:24:45.519 So kismet singing to me now. 00:24:47.394 --> 00:24:51.954 Um, yes, you, I know you're the famous dog that started all of this. 00:24:52.284 --> 00:24:57.474 Um, um, because, because they have a pretty pessimistic outlook 00:24:57.714 --> 00:25:02.964 around when they have an object, and sometimes it can be to provoke. 00:25:03.549 --> 00:25:05.979 Um, attention or something. 00:25:07.059 --> 00:25:08.499 He sounds like a yodeling dog. 00:25:08.499 --> 00:25:09.039 Doesn't he's, 00:25:09.219 --> 00:25:09.509 okay. 00:25:10.334 --> 00:25:11.084 Sorry about that. 00:25:11.444 --> 00:25:12.674 Um, okay. 00:25:12.764 --> 00:25:18.674 Um, uh, and chronic stress as well needs to be identified if there's a 00:25:18.674 --> 00:25:23.024 source of chronic stress, um, or, uh. 00:25:24.044 --> 00:25:26.084 Um, and that needs to be decreased. 00:25:26.444 --> 00:25:30.344 Um, and obviously pain or medical issues, you know, always have 00:25:30.344 --> 00:25:32.444 to be addressed If there's, um. 00:25:33.209 --> 00:25:36.659 If there's an issue around food and stuff. 00:25:36.929 --> 00:25:42.299 Um, and, and obviously we know that with resource guarding that uh, they 00:25:42.299 --> 00:25:47.729 often have touch sensitivity, um, which is obviously sometimes linked with 00:25:47.729 --> 00:25:52.349 trauma or physical trauma or physical malady, you know, that there's an issue. 00:25:52.379 --> 00:25:54.869 So that's kind of where we start. 00:25:55.169 --> 00:25:55.769 Um. 00:25:58.169 --> 00:25:59.849 He wants to come out, gimme one session, 00:26:00.779 --> 00:26:01.109 Anke: come on. 00:26:01.229 --> 00:26:02.314 We wanna see that little artist. 00:26:08.964 --> 00:26:09.184 Um, 00:26:13.654 --> 00:26:18.234 Sonia: and um, often, oftentimes, there's relationship. 00:26:19.094 --> 00:26:24.554 Challenges, um, insecure attachment challenges or maybe they've, 00:26:25.094 --> 00:26:27.704 um, attached to something else. 00:26:27.734 --> 00:26:33.074 Um, that's a whole other thing though, but, um, but can still be a part of it. 00:26:33.074 --> 00:26:36.134 But yeah, so we, we want to look at the relationship and the quality 00:26:36.134 --> 00:26:39.524 of the relationship, which, which oftentimes isn't always wonderful 00:26:39.899 --> 00:26:44.264 because of the issue and it just kind of spirals and increases. 00:26:44.504 --> 00:26:46.874 So, um, so. 00:26:47.264 --> 00:26:50.294 So sometimes it's good to have decompression away from each other. 00:26:50.294 --> 00:26:54.344 You know, I, I posted recently on my Facebook about, uh, 00:26:54.374 --> 00:26:55.514 doing like board and trains. 00:26:55.514 --> 00:26:59.474 'cause most people, whenever I see people asking about board and 00:26:59.474 --> 00:27:03.224 trains for resource guarding, people usually are like, oh, absolutely not. 00:27:03.224 --> 00:27:05.539 You know, you mustn't do board and trains for, for. 00:27:06.869 --> 00:27:10.919 Resource guarding and it's like if you have the skillset and are able 00:27:10.919 --> 00:27:14.549 to, it can actually really help, not only the dog, but it can really help 00:27:14.549 --> 00:27:16.589 the owners as well, or the guardians. 00:27:16.589 --> 00:27:20.039 So, um, it was just a, it was sort of an invitation for people to 00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:21.284 sort of look at it to different. 00:27:22.094 --> 00:27:26.924 A different way and consider the positives and how we, how everybody can benefit. 00:27:27.284 --> 00:27:30.614 Um, so yeah, so that's kind of, but um, so that 00:27:30.614 --> 00:27:35.654 Anke: means if somebody, like, they, like if, if my dog just won't 00:27:35.654 --> 00:27:39.074 give the socks back, then Uhhuh, you know, I mean, I guess I, one 00:27:39.074 --> 00:27:40.869 of what makes sense to me is that. 00:27:41.129 --> 00:27:41.189 Yeah. 00:27:41.789 --> 00:27:45.239 If my dog then stays with you for a while, then, then it's almost 00:27:45.239 --> 00:27:46.379 like it's a different environment. 00:27:46.379 --> 00:27:46.469 Mm-hmm. 00:27:46.469 --> 00:27:47.969 Like everything's kind of reset. 00:27:47.969 --> 00:27:48.269 Right. 00:27:48.509 --> 00:27:52.049 It's so much harder to do that if, if it's, if we are in our 00:27:52.049 --> 00:27:54.179 typical little rhythm that we have, 00:27:54.659 --> 00:27:55.139 Sonia: right? 00:27:55.229 --> 00:27:55.559 Yeah. 00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:58.589 And, and as we know, the environment cues behaviors, and that's the 00:27:58.589 --> 00:28:01.769 inner environment of the dog as well as the outer environment. 00:28:01.769 --> 00:28:03.179 And that's, those are huge. 00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:05.459 And also behavior. 00:28:05.459 --> 00:28:09.179 So like I just said, you know, um, assessing. 00:28:09.779 --> 00:28:10.469 A dog. 00:28:10.499 --> 00:28:14.399 How, how are you, you know, if I come in with a potential trade as a, 00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:17.009 as a, an environmental cue, right? 00:28:17.009 --> 00:28:18.599 I am part of the environment. 00:28:18.959 --> 00:28:21.179 How does he respond or how does she respond? 00:28:21.479 --> 00:28:21.989 Um. 00:28:22.364 --> 00:28:25.784 So we can change the environment. 00:28:26.114 --> 00:28:32.684 Um, it doesn't usually give them an immediate, uh, like clean slate obviously. 00:28:32.804 --> 00:28:35.324 Sometimes you'll see it straight off the bat anyway. 00:28:35.324 --> 00:28:37.724 They're like, I'm so good at this, let me show you. 00:28:37.994 --> 00:28:42.614 Um, and then sometimes, you know, it will take some time. 00:28:42.884 --> 00:28:45.239 Um, but it is incredible how. 00:28:46.604 --> 00:28:52.124 Even in my home because I do board and train in my home, um, how 00:28:52.124 --> 00:28:55.844 similar environments can still predict behavior even though 00:28:55.844 --> 00:28:58.334 they're not the exact environment. 00:28:58.334 --> 00:28:59.714 It's very, very interesting. 00:29:00.734 --> 00:29:01.934 Very interesting. 00:29:02.024 --> 00:29:04.604 Anke: So, so what's the best case scenario? 00:29:04.604 --> 00:29:09.584 Is that something that a dog can overcome or, I mean, I actually thought 00:29:09.584 --> 00:29:13.634 with Leo, I, I remember there was, there was one and it was around autumn 00:29:13.634 --> 00:29:17.624 or something, but I thought, look, I think Leo doesn't do that anymore. 00:29:17.624 --> 00:29:20.894 I, I can't remember the last time he's stolen anything. 00:29:21.194 --> 00:29:24.914 And literally the next day I had some washing hanging and off he went. 00:29:25.674 --> 00:29:29.244 Oh, that was just because for the last five months it's been warm 00:29:29.244 --> 00:29:30.774 here we've not worn any socks. 00:29:31.014 --> 00:29:32.419 Right, right, right. 00:29:33.084 --> 00:29:37.314 So, so it wasn't like he was still like, given the opportunity 00:29:37.314 --> 00:29:38.514 he would take it, right? 00:29:38.514 --> 00:29:38.874 Mm-hmm. 00:29:38.959 --> 00:29:44.094 Um, so in your experience, is that something that, uh, you learn to 00:29:44.094 --> 00:29:48.654 live with or is that something that a dog can let go of or, or what's 00:29:48.654 --> 00:29:50.514 like a best case scenario outcome? 00:29:50.934 --> 00:29:51.899 Sonia: So I think they're never. 00:29:52.664 --> 00:29:53.834 Fixed or cured. 00:29:53.834 --> 00:29:57.764 I really it very few, depending on the severity as well. 00:29:57.764 --> 00:30:02.624 And depending on the source, you know, of the, of the behavior, the root causes. 00:30:02.984 --> 00:30:06.434 Um, and depending on the dog, they're such individuals, but I 00:30:06.434 --> 00:30:07.994 always kind of call them recovering. 00:30:08.579 --> 00:30:15.359 Um, resource guard is, they're in recovery, just like, um, just like many 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:19.589 other challenges that humans have where they might be in a recovery program 00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:26.189 and it is a constant, uh, you know, a constant daily sort of work, you know? 00:30:26.219 --> 00:30:29.999 Um, and I kind of find that a lot of them are like that, to be honest with you. 00:30:29.999 --> 00:30:33.179 I don't, I don't, I'm never sort of like, well, they're cured now. 00:30:33.419 --> 00:30:37.619 Um, I think it's a process and, and hopefully as we've. 00:30:38.094 --> 00:30:42.264 Created protocols and we've developed more and more trust because trust 00:30:42.264 --> 00:30:49.164 is a huge, huge, important part of, of this, these, this work is 00:30:49.164 --> 00:30:55.704 building trust, building predict, predictability, um, and so that they can 00:30:55.704 --> 00:30:58.164 say, ah, I know what we are doing now. 00:30:58.164 --> 00:30:59.694 And I, I opt in. 00:31:00.114 --> 00:31:00.354 Um. 00:31:01.274 --> 00:31:05.714 And so that trust and that relationship building is, is critical. 00:31:05.984 --> 00:31:10.814 Um, you know, so oftentimes I'll hear from people, oh, but I don't want them, 00:31:11.714 --> 00:31:14.864 you know, picking up an item and coming to me and saying, can I have a cookie? 00:31:14.864 --> 00:31:15.764 And SW swapping it. 00:31:15.764 --> 00:31:17.144 And I'm like, why? 00:31:17.414 --> 00:31:20.264 That's so much better than potentially being bitten. 00:31:20.594 --> 00:31:23.504 And when I often see these dogs, they are. 00:31:23.924 --> 00:31:27.284 4, 5, 6, 7 bites in and they're getting worse. 00:31:27.284 --> 00:31:30.674 And so I'm like, so what if you give them a cookie because 00:31:30.674 --> 00:31:32.804 they brought you a shoe to me? 00:31:32.804 --> 00:31:33.944 That's brilliant. 00:31:33.944 --> 00:31:34.004 Yeah. 00:31:34.184 --> 00:31:34.904 I want that. 00:31:34.904 --> 00:31:36.584 I want them to say, Hey, look what I've got. 00:31:36.584 --> 00:31:37.304 Can I have a cookie? 00:31:37.364 --> 00:31:38.894 Abso absolutely. 00:31:38.894 --> 00:31:40.034 You can have a cookie. 00:31:40.244 --> 00:31:44.174 I'm happy to give you a cookie and keep our relationship good. 00:31:44.204 --> 00:31:48.164 Um, as opposed to going all the way back to stealing and then 00:31:48.164 --> 00:31:50.234 guarding and, you know, and biting. 00:31:50.444 --> 00:31:51.044 It's like. 00:31:51.509 --> 00:31:53.129 Why would I think that's a problem? 00:31:53.309 --> 00:31:55.949 I don't for resource guarding, you know? 00:31:55.949 --> 00:31:56.009 Yeah. 00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:58.319 Um, to me that's, that's wonderful. 00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:01.559 That's like, hey, you know, I, I bring in my little token. 00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:02.429 Can I get a goodie? 00:32:02.429 --> 00:32:03.239 Absolutely. 00:32:03.419 --> 00:32:06.479 You can get a good goodie as opposed to No, you can't have it. 00:32:06.479 --> 00:32:06.584 And yeah. 00:32:06.674 --> 00:32:08.879 And I will bite you if you come near me. 00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:10.799 Um, kismet does that. 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.439 He'll, he'll, occasionally, well, he brings me shoes. 00:32:13.739 --> 00:32:18.149 Um, one to say I need to go outside to go potty or two, just because he wants 00:32:18.149 --> 00:32:20.489 interaction, or three because he, um. 00:32:20.944 --> 00:32:23.524 He, uh, he'd like a cookie and, and it's fine. 00:32:23.524 --> 00:32:24.094 It's fine. 00:32:24.094 --> 00:32:24.814 You know what I mean? 00:32:24.814 --> 00:32:28.414 I'd, I'd much prefer that than the dog that I lived with seven 00:32:28.414 --> 00:32:30.244 years ago and six years ago. 00:32:30.514 --> 00:32:30.724 God. 00:32:30.724 --> 00:32:30.784 Yeah. 00:32:31.744 --> 00:32:35.614 Anke: Actually, it reminds me, reminds me, I was in an Airbnb once and they had a, 00:32:35.614 --> 00:32:39.604 a hunting dogs, like a Ong or something like that, and he was super cute and he 00:32:39.604 --> 00:32:43.354 would come, like on the last day I was having breakfast and there he was like. 00:32:43.834 --> 00:32:47.554 This, and he had like, he'd stolen the socks from the washing basket 00:32:47.794 --> 00:32:48.994 and he was bringing it to me, 00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:55.924 Sonia: so it do have like lovely smelling feet or something. 00:32:56.674 --> 00:32:56.974 Socks. 00:32:57.949 --> 00:33:00.874 Socks, D feet. 00:33:02.764 --> 00:33:04.714 Anke: He stole his own people socks. 00:33:04.714 --> 00:33:07.109 Like that wasn't, oh, look at you. 00:33:07.109 --> 00:33:09.274 He just brought it to me, which was like really sweet. 00:33:09.274 --> 00:33:10.504 And then he'd go like, you know, with. 00:33:10.729 --> 00:33:12.799 Pull up and I still have that photo. 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:13.519 It was really cute. 00:33:14.154 --> 00:33:14.374 Sonia: Aw, 00:33:15.484 --> 00:33:15.974 Anke: that is cute. 00:33:16.009 --> 00:33:20.119 So where can people go and find out more about you and contact you if, 00:33:20.209 --> 00:33:22.369 you know, if they want dishes back? 00:33:22.604 --> 00:33:22.894 Yeah, 00:33:24.019 --> 00:33:24.559 Sonia: right. 00:33:24.829 --> 00:33:26.269 Oh, they, they're living with a Cujo. 00:33:26.509 --> 00:33:32.029 Um, so, uh, yeah, so I'm on Facebook as you know, Sonia Fling, and I'm more 00:33:32.029 --> 00:33:34.369 active on there than my own business page. 00:33:34.369 --> 00:33:34.909 Failing. 00:33:35.159 --> 00:33:36.719 Uh, of, best of behavior. 00:33:36.989 --> 00:33:41.729 Um, I am on Instagram and I'm trying to be more active on there. 00:33:41.729 --> 00:33:43.439 It's just, you know, busy. 00:33:43.439 --> 00:33:43.739 Busy. 00:33:43.739 --> 00:33:44.129 Right. 00:33:44.489 --> 00:33:47.969 Um, I am hopefully working on a book. 00:33:48.029 --> 00:33:51.839 Um, so I will get that together and, um, I have a few. 00:33:52.504 --> 00:33:57.304 Uh, presentations coming up in the next, in 2026. 00:33:57.634 --> 00:34:03.034 Um, I'll be presenting at the MET conference, the online MET 00:34:03.034 --> 00:34:07.274 Conference, um, and then also at the Canis conference in, uh. 00:34:07.974 --> 00:34:09.624 October, 2026. 00:34:09.624 --> 00:34:12.354 So in Schaumburg, which is just outside of Chicago. 00:34:12.354 --> 00:34:17.994 So, um, those will be two places, um, where I'll be able to be presenting 00:34:18.324 --> 00:34:20.934 more of my, my work so you can see it. 00:34:22.194 --> 00:34:22.444 Anke: Awesome, awesome. 00:34:22.584 --> 00:34:25.614 Well, when the book's out, I shall definitely invite you back. 00:34:26.274 --> 00:34:30.534 Thank, we wanna know all about that, so thank you so much and, um, yeah, 00:34:30.564 --> 00:34:33.594 absolutely delightful and yeah, I think there's a lot, there's a lot. 00:34:33.594 --> 00:34:35.004 I mean, just for thinking even the dog. 00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:38.959 You know, a friend of mine, like, yeah, he's kind of, and he gets in trouble with 00:34:38.959 --> 00:34:43.039 the other dogs because he'll get kind of nervous when somebody walks past him that 00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:44.569 somebody might take his toy and stuff. 00:34:44.569 --> 00:34:44.809 Right. 00:34:44.809 --> 00:34:46.489 So, and it causes tension. 00:34:46.489 --> 00:34:47.629 So it's, it's a real thing. 00:34:47.629 --> 00:34:47.719 Mm-hmm. 00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:50.449 Like, it, it's not a, it's, um, yeah. 00:34:50.609 --> 00:34:52.169 And it's, it's definitely, 00:34:52.859 --> 00:34:53.849 Sonia: it is stressful. 00:34:53.849 --> 00:34:54.914 It is, it is very stressful. 00:34:54.914 --> 00:34:56.129 It stressful for everyone involved, right? 00:34:56.134 --> 00:34:56.154 Mm-hmm. 00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:59.159 Anke: You know, the dogs and the people and the other dogs in the house and yeah. 00:34:59.429 --> 00:35:01.079 So, yeah, definitely. 00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:01.769 Sonia: Absolutely. 00:35:02.069 --> 00:35:04.709 And well, thank you very much Angela, for having me on it. 00:35:04.709 --> 00:35:04.729 Thank you. 00:35:04.729 --> 00:35:06.834 It's been an absolute pleasure and well thank you. 00:35:07.139 --> 00:35:07.289 We'll 00:35:07.289 --> 00:35:10.319 Anke: pop the link below, below, you know, the video and the audio, 00:35:10.319 --> 00:35:11.189 wherever you're watching it. 00:35:11.549 --> 00:35:15.329 And, uh, go check her out and I look forward to having you back. 00:35:16.469 --> 00:35:17.189 Sonia: Aw, thank you. 00:35:19.520 --> 00:35:20.750 Thanks so much for listening. 00:35:21.270 --> 00:35:25.570 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:35:25.670 --> 00:35:27.450 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:35:28.240 --> 00:35:31.730 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:35:32.160 --> 00:35:37.730 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:35:37.830 --> 00:35:40.200 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:35:40.200 --> 00:35:43.930 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:35:44.350 --> 00:35:45.490 I'd love an introduction. 00:35:45.970 --> 00:35:47.800 Email me at Anke. 00:35:48.070 --> 00:35:52.305 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.