Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome, Sonya.
I'm very happy to have you here.
Sonia: Hi.
Thank you Anka.
Thank you so much for inviting me.
I'm it's absolute honor and pleasure.
Thank you.
Anke: Um, we're gonna have some fun here.
So let's start out, let people know where in this lovely world
you are, and as always, what's your business with the dogs?
Sonia: Um, so, uh, my business is called Best of Behavior.
That's the American spelling of behavior, not the English spelling, even though I
am English, but I live in America, um, on the, in the south suburbs of Chicago.
So that's in the Midwest.
And um.
Gosh.
Uh, yeah.
I've been working with dogs professionally for about 25 years now.
A long time.
And, uh, I started my business about seven years ago after not having my own
business for many, many years, and a lot of people asking me why I didn't.
But it's such a large undertaking and I just sort of avoided it for
the longest time until I finally.
Uh, you know, bit the bullet and started best of behavior.
Um, so yeah.
So, um, so we do, uh, a lot of behavior work, um, a lot of aggression and
reactivity and all the other labels that we want to say, you know, fear and, um.
And everything really.
Um, and we also do, uh, regular training as well, which is how
I, how I originally started.
I was originally a trainer and then, um, working for Courteous Canine
for Angelica Steiner went into behavior in the early two thousands.
Um.
And, uh, she was one of my wonderful mentors that I was very lucky to
learn from very early on in my career.
And, um, yeah.
So there we are.
Anke: There we are.
Well, I mean, my first question, like I, I think you've already sort of touched on
it, it was like, okay, so wait, how is one a dog trainer without your own business?
I didn't even think that was a thing.
Stupid work for somebody else.
Sonia: Yep.
I worked for other people and, uh, and, and, and some of the
corporations along the way as well.
Um, which, you know, to be honest.
Most group classes are not my favorite thing to teach.
I really do prefer one-on-one.
I love working with the dog in front of me or the dogs in front of me, um, and
sort of narrowing down and focusing.
Um, I like group classes.
They're just not my favorite, favorite thing to teach.
I do much prefer just working one-on-one with clients and, and
their dogs, to be honest with you.
Anke: Fair enough.
I can totally see why.
But so that's basically like group classes when you have a company and they offer
group clo, like puppy classes or whatever.
So they will then hire a trainer.
To mm-hmm.
To do these class.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
I, that was, I, I was somehow assumed that, um, you know, dog professionals
would always be self-employed, you know, so that's Yeah, I know.
I hadn't even thought that.
No.
Sonia: Yeah.
I think also a lot of companies though, may hire dog trainers
as independent contractors.
Um, and I know that I have an independent contractor that works closely with me.
Um, 'cause there's only one of me and I can't be everywhere.
I can't Yep, yep.
All the time.
Um, but, but sometimes, you know, they do have employees as well, and,
um, some of my friends in the city have employees that have their own,
um, facilities and stuff, so, yeah.
So, um.
Yeah, I think there's lots of different ways and it was really nice coming
into the industry to, to shadow so many different, I mean, um, so in my second job
when I worked for Angelica, not only did I work and learn from Angelica, but I worked
and learn with many of the other trainers.
One of them was a dolphin trainer from Bush Gardens.
They had their own dolphins at the time.
So I would sit and watch him and write notes on how he taught
and, and watching the people.
And how they reacted and responded to certain things.
Obviously being a dolphin trainer, a lot of it is, um,
performative, to be honest with you.
You know, that what you see in the shows.
Um, so he was amazing at engaging the clients and getting them motivated
to do things with their own dogs.
And that was.
Inspiring.
I, I didn't, I, I kind of wanted to be like him, but I didn't
wanna be him, if that makes sense.
But I certainly took a lot away from that.
So, yeah.
And many of the other trainers that I worked with too.
So huge influences.
Anke: Yeah, I bet.
I mean, that's always.
I mean, we all learn from other people.
Like, it's almost like, you know, I always remind, reminds me of Bruce
Lee, like, you know, you're gonna study all the masters to kind of form
your own way out of it in the end.
Right.
So,
Sonia: absolutely.
Yeah.
Anke: So what's, what's one thing that you think, uh, oh God, I wish people knew.
You know, from all the clients that people come to you, the problems they
come to you with what you see, you know, what, what do you think people
like, what do you wish people knew?
Sonia: The clients or the trainers?
The clients.
You know, one of my, one of my lovely dear clients who's become
a friend, 'cause I'm terrible.
I'm, I'm like, I really suck at professional boundaries.
When I work closely.
When I, when I do, I just think it comes with like, having such
an empathetic, compassionate, loving, kind, sort of heart.
I, I'm terrible at like keeping, you know, especially when I work
closely with someone for a long time.
Often they just become really good friends.
You know, and, um, so, so one of those, um, she always says to me,
the most important thing that you kept telling me at the beginning
was, it's a marathon, not a sprint.
And, and it was a severe aggression case that I, she had originally hired me for.
He's incredible.
Now he's come.
So, so far they have as a team and she, she always says that,
I remember you saying, Sonya, it's a marathon, not a sprint.
And just keep one foot in front of the other, one foot in front of the other.
No matter how slow you are going, sometimes you are running fast, sometimes
you're hobbling along and that's okay.
It's just keep your eye forward.
You know, and keep moving.
Anke: So maybe that, I love that because I think a lot of the time, you know, people,
people look for the quick fix, right?
Yeah.
So it's like, yeah, I don, I just want my dog to stop, dog to stop doing.
Is it mostly, I think it's mostly getting the dog to stop something, right?
So it's not so much I wish my dog did that.
It's like, I wish my dog didn't do Right.
Something.
Sonia: Right.
Right.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah, and just, you know, having patience and just.
Trying to find that compassion for yourself as the human and your dynamic
and your struggle, but also for the animal that they're, you know, I know
we always say everybody knows this, that they're having a hard time.
They're not just giving you a hard time.
Um, and it's so true though, and it just being.
Being able to step back and create some space emotionally to just sort
of reflect and have some compassion for yourself and the difficulty that,
that human's feeling and the, you know, the frustration and anger and all
those other feelings, and that's okay.
And they, they're, they're allowed to have those feelings, you know?
Um, and the dog obviously has theirs.
And just to try to just pour compassion upon that is, is so
important, you know, and, and allowing the client to have permission.
To, to feel those and not feel like ashamed, you know?
Yeah.
That really,
Anke: I mean, the shame is a big part of it.
Right.
Especially when your dog is, I mean, I would imagine with aggression mm-hmm.
It's probably, you know, but it also limits your life
when you can't go anywhere.
Right.
I remember a hosted an event once and in the chat zone, like,
you know, when people ask like.
When asked what was their issue, there were people going like, oh,
I, I just wish I could have my son over food cook for Thanksgiving.
Sonia: Yeah.
Anke: You know, like, the dog won't, but like, it's like, oh my God.
It sounds kind of funny and extreme, but you know, put yourself
into the shoes of that family.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
It's Ooh.
So, and they then go and say, Hey, I want somebody to just fix it.
Right, right.
So how do you, how do you get people to have patience when they already
kind of, at the end of their rope.
Sonia: Well, you know, I, I'll often use just human analogies, you know, we
don't go to the psychiatrist one time and miraculously walked away, walk away,
fixed, you know, it just doesn't, or the, or the therapist, you know, and, um, you
don't see a therapist once, one or two times usually, and everything smashed.
Especially if you have a history of trauma and, you know, so there are so
many people with the awareness that we have with mental health these days.
Um.
People are seeing therapists or have seen therapists or continuing to see
therapists or multiple sometimes, and.
So I think when we talk and we sort of help them understand and, and believe
it or not, I mean, there's quite a few people that are on, you know,
psychopharmacology themselves and they'll laugh and they'll be like, oh, everybody
in the family is, and then it's like, you know, if that's what we are discussing,
for example, um, but also just to, to, to know that they don't get magically
fixed by a therapist one or two times.
You know, that it is a process.
And, um, to have, and it's gonna be up and down and to have, you know, try to
have patience and try to identify how we can help them have some of their
normality back through management.
I think management, you know, is.
Usually more of a temporary thing, and temporary might be a month,
temporary might be two years.
I mean, that's not on our timeframe necessarily, that's on the dogs and
the issues and everything else, and the goals if they're accessible.
Um, so I think, you know, addressing all of that kind of stuff and, and
allowing them to, um, to, to understand that it, it is a process, you know?
And, um, and we're gonna try to do as much as we can, but.
To try to have patience.
Anke: Hmm.
Yeah.
Do you find, do you find there's, um, like when there's families, like, I mean
like what in my observation, you know, like the people who come to trainers and
with that patient mind tend to be women.
Am I right there?
Or is it like, do you find that it's like in families that there's like one
who goes like, I just need this fixed now, and one is happy to kind of go the
path, but then there's pressure from the other side to say, well, hey, you know,
if you don't get this fixed by whatever.
Sonia: Um, I, I think probably yes, in my experience it's usually been men that have
been more wanting the immediate quick fix.
But, but to be honest, um, as I look, as I think about the last few years with
all of my clients and, and maybe I'm just really lucky and that I just, you know,
the people that seek me out are those really patient people, you know, that, um.
Uh, that are, that are wanting to do the work.
The hard work, the deep work, you know?
Um, so, and, and to be fair, I mean, most of the male clients, they
either come by themselves or come in a family unit or a couple unit.
Um.
Are really, really wonderful, to be honest with you.
I'm really blessed, so I'm lucky.
I love my clients.
Anke: That's, that's awesome.
That's awesome because I'm literally, I've just literally had a, had a conversation
with a colleague early on and we thought like, well actually, you know.
As beautiful as it is to help dogs.
Right.
I, I felt it's like, oh, I think I'd get frustrated.
You know, when you get people in the middle that don't see that, hey, don't
you see your dogs side look like, you know, so, but it's, I mean, that's
fortunate that, that you've got, you know, whatever you put out, pulls in mm-hmm.
The right, the right people.
So do you, do you work like online only or like offline only?
Or like, do you, do you do a bit of both?
Sonia: I do a bit of both.
The majority is, um, is uh, in person.
Um, but I do, I do also work with cats.
So, um, so some of my clients are, uh, usually across the us,
um, that I have cat, mainly intra household aggression, um, or.
People aggression.
Um, so, um, and then of course, you know, I do have some, um, I don't really put out
I guess that, that, that I, I don't really advertise that I do a lot of online.
Um, and to be honest, mainly because I am driving all around God's creation.
So it's very difficult for me to, to sit and do virtual, to be honest with you.
Um, because I'm out, you know, I work like six days a week.
Often seven.
Um, and I know you've, um, so yeah.
Terrible worklife balance.
But, um, so yeah, I, I am, as I move forward more to working, doing like
my niche, uh, is, which is, um, my passion at the moment for the last five.
Plus years, six, seven years.
Um, then maybe I will do a lot more virtual.
So yeah.
But I'm open to doing virtual.
I like, I like virtual too.
Anke: I was just like, I mean, this is the dog shows.
I'm not gonna go too far into the cats, but I don't think I've ever heard anybody
get to, you know, hiring somebody to go, Hey, my dog's kind of, uh, my two cats.
Go at each other, like, I've not even, oh yeah, I, I mean, I've
never had a cat, so at least, yeah.
I looked after one for a little while, like, she's so cute.
It's called, he's thrown itself off a wall as a tiny
Sonia: I love that.
Yeah.
I get, I, I actually get a lot of referrals from our veterinary
behaviorist up in the city.
Dr.
Kelly Ballantine and her group insight.
Shout out to them.
Um, and then, uh, um, yeah, and then a lot through the website
and, and just referrals, so.
Anke: I didn't, I just didn't realize that was a thing.
Yeah.
It's like, oh yeah, my cat has a go with me.
Like, that's a good one.
Now, now the other thing I wanna kind of dig in, you just sort threw in
there, it's like, well, I'm gonna focus more on my niche, my real passion.
Tell us about that.
Sonia: Okay.
Um, so, uh, so for the last sort of, well.
Seven and a bit years ago I adopted Kismet, that's one of my dogs.
And um, and I had actually six months prior, lost my border
Collie, who was my heart dog.
And I was heartbroken and I had no dogs.
Um, and I was volunteering at the Local Humane Society at the time.
And so, um, and doing a lot of hours there, actually just voluntary, um.
And so I would go in and I would clean and just, you know, get
mucky, just do all the hard stuff that no one really wanted to do.
And nobody actually even knew that I was a trainer.
I didn't go in there saying like, I'm a trainer.
You know, I didn't tell anyone.
I just went in and cleaned and took dogs for walks and played
with them and took care of the cats and stuff and just did the work,
you know, that needed to be done.
And, um.
Transport came up from the south and, and I was, after the cleaning, I was
taking all the dogs out individually for walks and just outside time.
And, and I took this very quiet dog out.
Um, he was about eight months old at the time, a mixed breed.
And um, and we went for a little walk and, and he made me laugh and
I kind of felt a little bit of my heart sort of glue back together.
And um, and I was like, hmm.
That's interesting.
So I put him on hold and I brought my family the next day
and we ended up taking him home.
Um, but I will say having lost, you know, three dogs in the previous, you know, all
due to old age, um, sort of five years.
Um, and then finishing with Coop was, um, it was hard.
And, and I don't know, you know, if.
Um, I don't know when, I don't know how we ever assess.
We're ready for another dog.
Um, you know, and, and I took him home and I liked him a lot.
Um, and then I found out some stuff, um, that made it more challenging to like
him, but I'll talk about that in a minute.
Um, but I'd say it probably took me a good year, a year and a half,
maybe even two years, to like really feel the, the love for him.
And I love the.
Very bones of him.
Now, I love him to pieces, but it was a process.
Healing that loss was hard.
So, um, yeah, I know.
That's a tangent.
Anke: No, no, no.
But it's like, it's so true though.
It's such a, you know, I mean, I, that's a situation.
I've lost two, but I've always had other dogs, like there was always at least.
There was always two other dogs there, you know?
Mm-hmm.
So I sometimes thought like, I don't even wanna think about what it would be like.
For the lost dog to go.
Right.
It's just like, yeah.
Ooh.
It's hard, hard, you know?
So I can totally, totally feel that, that it's, yeah.
Sonia: Yeah.
And I had had children in that timeframe, so I had two very young
children and, um, and was very busy with them, you know, as well.
And, uh, so yeah, so it was, it was a change, but so, uh, the thing that made it
a little bit more challenging to like him, um, they didn't really do, I don't think.
I'm not sure what they do now, but, um, they didn't really do any kind of
assessments really, in the shelter.
So when I got him home within the next week or two, I discovered that it was, um.
Proli, uh, prolific resource guarder, and he would steal things and he was like
Cujo, um, the 1980s film version of Cujo.
Um, and he would, you know, steal whatever run to his kennel and then
he was all teeth, slashing teeth, you know, and it was like, oh, great.
And remember I had two very young children at the time, and I was like, ah.
We have a problem.
So yes, Houston, we have a problem.
And um, what, but the thing was, it was very, very difficult
to predict what he would.
What he would steal because he would just steal items.
Um, especially if he could counter surf and steal food items, high value, you
know, like human cookies or something.
And, um, and of course having young children that, you know, five year
olds aren't very good at putting things necessarily away and stuff, so, um.
And two year olds.
Um, so, so it was, uh, it was very difficult.
Um, and he made me grow and stretch and create.
So he is a wonderful teacher, teacher.
So
Anke: the dogs are the best teachers, the best, especially the difficult ones.
You know, the difficult dog.
Right?
Absolutely.
It's the one that, that questions everything you thought you knew.
Mm-hmm.
Like or challenges.
Sonia: Yeah, challenges.
Everything you thought you knew.
Yeah.
About dogs or training or anything like that.
And it's like, okay.
You know, that was the thing is I, I, you know, I'm holding my wonderful
copy of mine by Jean Donaldson and I'm like, how do I, how do I do
this with everything in the house?
This drug of steel, anything and everything, and then God, the ever-loving
crud out of it, how can I desensitize and counter condition everything in the house?
You can't.
And, and it, you know, it wasn't constant.
So I had to identify when and the context and I, and it was, it really,
um, it really stretched me and groom me.
And, um, and I kind of developed some, some techniques and, um, protocols.
And then I had another dog five, five years ago that came for a board and train
for severe resource guarding and, um.
And I was like, okay.
And so he grew that even more.
Um, and then over the last five years, you know, I've just been like, okay,
there is a need for, you know, not just my dog, but many other dogs that, that
have this, um, you know, these kinds of resource guarding patterns that Aren.
Predictable.
Um, but even when they are predictable, you know, what else is there?
What else can we do other than desensitization and counter conditioning?
Um, and why, why would we want to do this?
Um, how is it helpful?
Uh, you know, those are the questions I just started asking.
I'm a, I'm a question person.
I always want to know, well, why, you know, why and how.
And, um, so yeah.
So that's, that's what I kind of developed.
Mm.
Anke: That's so interesting because I'm just like laughing like little Leo.
He was, well he wasn't unpredictable, he was very predictable.
I called him sometimes Imelda Marcos 'cause he loved leather shoes and socks.
Like literally like he went, he wants ate Aline socks.
You know, we laughed about this like later these little, you know, these,
this little pantyhose little kind of.
Separate.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
You know, while she was trying on her dress, like he was just go, and
then he would go when you come and oh my God, and then he'd swallow it.
So you wouldn't take it away from him.
Right.
So that was always like, I would then always have to trade it for something
that, you know, he liked better.
Because if I.
Came.
And if he got the sense that I was trying to take it away from him, he'd
swallow and he'd swallow anything.
Right.
So that was like, have to be really careful with that.
But when he trained me well to keep socks and shoes in, in their place, you know?
Right.
And I don't even know what you do if it's with everything.
So like, from everything you've kind of investigated around this, um, what do you
think it's, it is at the source of it.
Like why, why do dogs do that?
Sonia: Well, it depends.
Sound like a trainer.
It depends.
I would say a lot of it is insecurities.
Um, insecure attachments.
Um, in food insecurity, obviously, uh, object insecurity can be, you
know, but yeah, a lot of insecurities, um, um, unknown, you know, they're
not quite sure what to predict.
Um, interestingly, the, the last dog that I had for board and train had
had the predicting sort of occurrence of trading, was now poisoned.
If you try to come in and trade, he would get even more aggressive.
So even trading has to be done very carefully and we
think it's kind of foolproof.
Right.
I have something really good.
Better than you have.
Give it to me.
Um.
But if it's not done correctly or with a certain type of dog, we can poison that.
So that actually became a cue for him to become even even more upset and
have bigger feelings and God even.
And, um.
And be more proactively aggressive.
So it was, yeah, he, he was, he is a very interesting case.
Anke: So how do you go about, uh, starting to break that pattern or to
ease that, like where do you start?
Like how, what do you do?
Sonia: So I think that dogs need to go sort of through, like with anything that
we are working, they need to go through like a decompression period, um, and.
And if we can, we need to kind of go through an item deprivation period of that
object while we build up other skills.
So if we can build up, if we can build up, um, more sort of operant
protocols, but it's not just about operant behaviors, it's about the
emotions, um, that we can create.
So kismet singing to me now.
Um, yes, you, I know you're the famous dog that started all of this.
Um, um, because, because they have a pretty pessimistic outlook
around when they have an object, and sometimes it can be to provoke.
Um, attention or something.
He sounds like a yodeling dog.
Doesn't he's,
okay.
Sorry about that.
Um, okay.
Um, uh, and chronic stress as well needs to be identified if there's a
source of chronic stress, um, or, uh.
Um, and that needs to be decreased.
Um, and obviously pain or medical issues, you know, always have
to be addressed If there's, um.
If there's an issue around food and stuff.
Um, and, and obviously we know that with resource guarding that uh, they
often have touch sensitivity, um, which is obviously sometimes linked with
trauma or physical trauma or physical malady, you know, that there's an issue.
So that's kind of where we start.
Um.
He wants to come out, gimme one session,
Anke: come on.
We wanna see that little artist.
Um,
Sonia: and um, often, oftentimes, there's relationship.
Challenges, um, insecure attachment challenges or maybe they've,
um, attached to something else.
Um, that's a whole other thing though, but, um, but can still be a part of it.
But yeah, so we, we want to look at the relationship and the quality
of the relationship, which, which oftentimes isn't always wonderful
because of the issue and it just kind of spirals and increases.
So, um, so.
So sometimes it's good to have decompression away from each other.
You know, I, I posted recently on my Facebook about, uh,
doing like board and trains.
'cause most people, whenever I see people asking about board and
trains for resource guarding, people usually are like, oh, absolutely not.
You know, you mustn't do board and trains for, for.
Resource guarding and it's like if you have the skillset and are able
to, it can actually really help, not only the dog, but it can really help
the owners as well, or the guardians.
So, um, it was just a, it was sort of an invitation for people to
sort of look at it to different.
A different way and consider the positives and how we, how everybody can benefit.
Um, so yeah, so that's kind of, but um, so that
Anke: means if somebody, like, they, like if, if my dog just won't
give the socks back, then Uhhuh, you know, I mean, I guess I, one
of what makes sense to me is that.
Yeah.
If my dog then stays with you for a while, then, then it's almost
like it's a different environment.
Mm-hmm.
Like everything's kind of reset.
Right.
It's so much harder to do that if, if it's, if we are in our
typical little rhythm that we have,
Sonia: right?
Yeah.
And, and as we know, the environment cues behaviors, and that's the
inner environment of the dog as well as the outer environment.
And that's, those are huge.
And also behavior.
So like I just said, you know, um, assessing.
A dog.
How, how are you, you know, if I come in with a potential trade as a,
as a, an environmental cue, right?
I am part of the environment.
How does he respond or how does she respond?
Um.
So we can change the environment.
Um, it doesn't usually give them an immediate, uh, like clean slate obviously.
Sometimes you'll see it straight off the bat anyway.
They're like, I'm so good at this, let me show you.
Um, and then sometimes, you know, it will take some time.
Um, but it is incredible how.
Even in my home because I do board and train in my home, um, how
similar environments can still predict behavior even though
they're not the exact environment.
It's very, very interesting.
Very interesting.
Anke: So, so what's the best case scenario?
Is that something that a dog can overcome or, I mean, I actually thought
with Leo, I, I remember there was, there was one and it was around autumn
or something, but I thought, look, I think Leo doesn't do that anymore.
I, I can't remember the last time he's stolen anything.
And literally the next day I had some washing hanging and off he went.
Oh, that was just because for the last five months it's been warm
here we've not worn any socks.
Right, right, right.
So, so it wasn't like he was still like, given the opportunity
he would take it, right?
Mm-hmm.
Um, so in your experience, is that something that, uh, you learn to
live with or is that something that a dog can let go of or, or what's
like a best case scenario outcome?
Sonia: So I think they're never.
Fixed or cured.
I really it very few, depending on the severity as well.
And depending on the source, you know, of the, of the behavior, the root causes.
Um, and depending on the dog, they're such individuals, but I
always kind of call them recovering.
Um, resource guard is, they're in recovery, just like, um, just like many
other challenges that humans have where they might be in a recovery program
and it is a constant, uh, you know, a constant daily sort of work, you know?
Um, and I kind of find that a lot of them are like that, to be honest with you.
I don't, I don't, I'm never sort of like, well, they're cured now.
Um, I think it's a process and, and hopefully as we've.
Created protocols and we've developed more and more trust because trust
is a huge, huge, important part of, of this, these, this work is
building trust, building predict, predictability, um, and so that they can
say, ah, I know what we are doing now.
And I, I opt in.
Um.
And so that trust and that relationship building is, is critical.
Um, you know, so oftentimes I'll hear from people, oh, but I don't want them,
you know, picking up an item and coming to me and saying, can I have a cookie?
And SW swapping it.
And I'm like, why?
That's so much better than potentially being bitten.
And when I often see these dogs, they are.
4, 5, 6, 7 bites in and they're getting worse.
And so I'm like, so what if you give them a cookie because
they brought you a shoe to me?
That's brilliant.
Yeah.
I want that.
I want them to say, Hey, look what I've got.
Can I have a cookie?
Abso absolutely.
You can have a cookie.
I'm happy to give you a cookie and keep our relationship good.
Um, as opposed to going all the way back to stealing and then
guarding and, you know, and biting.
It's like.
Why would I think that's a problem?
I don't for resource guarding, you know?
Yeah.
Um, to me that's, that's wonderful.
That's like, hey, you know, I, I bring in my little token.
Can I get a goodie?
Absolutely.
You can get a good goodie as opposed to No, you can't have it.
And yeah.
And I will bite you if you come near me.
Um, kismet does that.
He'll, he'll, occasionally, well, he brings me shoes.
Um, one to say I need to go outside to go potty or two, just because he wants
interaction, or three because he, um.
He, uh, he'd like a cookie and, and it's fine.
It's fine.
You know what I mean?
I'd, I'd much prefer that than the dog that I lived with seven
years ago and six years ago.
God.
Yeah.
Anke: Actually, it reminds me, reminds me, I was in an Airbnb once and they had a,
a hunting dogs, like a Ong or something like that, and he was super cute and he
would come, like on the last day I was having breakfast and there he was like.
This, and he had like, he'd stolen the socks from the washing basket
and he was bringing it to me,
Sonia: so it do have like lovely smelling feet or something.
Socks.
Socks, D feet.
Anke: He stole his own people socks.
Like that wasn't, oh, look at you.
He just brought it to me, which was like really sweet.
And then he'd go like, you know, with.
Pull up and I still have that photo.
It was really cute.
Sonia: Aw,
Anke: that is cute.
So where can people go and find out more about you and contact you if,
you know, if they want dishes back?
Yeah,
Sonia: right.
Oh, they, they're living with a Cujo.
Um, so, uh, yeah, so I'm on Facebook as you know, Sonia Fling, and I'm more
active on there than my own business page.
Failing.
Uh, of, best of behavior.
Um, I am on Instagram and I'm trying to be more active on there.
It's just, you know, busy.
Busy.
Right.
Um, I am hopefully working on a book.
Um, so I will get that together and, um, I have a few.
Uh, presentations coming up in the next, in 2026.
Um, I'll be presenting at the MET conference, the online MET
Conference, um, and then also at the Canis conference in, uh.
October, 2026.
So in Schaumburg, which is just outside of Chicago.
So, um, those will be two places, um, where I'll be able to be presenting
more of my, my work so you can see it.
Anke: Awesome, awesome.
Well, when the book's out, I shall definitely invite you back.
Thank, we wanna know all about that, so thank you so much and, um, yeah,
absolutely delightful and yeah, I think there's a lot, there's a lot.
I mean, just for thinking even the dog.
You know, a friend of mine, like, yeah, he's kind of, and he gets in trouble with
the other dogs because he'll get kind of nervous when somebody walks past him that
somebody might take his toy and stuff.
Right.
So, and it causes tension.
So it's, it's a real thing.
Mm-hmm.
Like, it, it's not a, it's, um, yeah.
And it's, it's definitely,
Sonia: it is stressful.
It is, it is very stressful.
It stressful for everyone involved, right?
Mm-hmm.
Anke: You know, the dogs and the people and the other dogs in the house and yeah.
So, yeah, definitely.
Sonia: Absolutely.
And well, thank you very much Angela, for having me on it.
Thank you.
It's been an absolute pleasure and well thank you.
We'll
Anke: pop the link below, below, you know, the video and the audio,
wherever you're watching it.
And, uh, go check her out and I look forward to having you back.
Sonia: Aw, thank you.
Thanks so much for listening.
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